MLax: Duke 15, ND 7

[burnspbesq]

Big game with big implications.

The Brawling Papists come in with a 4-3 record, 2-1 in ACC play. They lost to Cuse at the Dome in their last outing. Duke is 9-2, 2-1, riding a five-game winning streak. The winner moves into a tie with Maryland at the top of the ACC. ND has won the last four regular-season meetings between the two.

So far this year, the key to beating ND has been simplicity itself: stop sophomore attackman Matt Kavanaugh, and you stop the Irish. He has 26 points in their four wins, and seven in their three losses. Henry Lobb will likely draw the assignment on Kavanaugh, but look for Duke to help early and aggressively to force the ball out of his stick.

Conor Doyle has been the secondary offensive threat for ND. Senior midfielder Jim Marlatt, who I had as a preseason first-team All-American, has started slowly this year.

Stephen O'Hara, who is a lock to be a first-team All-American, is the heart and soul of the Irish defense. Expect to see him on Jordan Wolf.

Goalkeeping, traditionally a strength for ND, has not been such this year. ND keepers are at 47 percent so far this year, with freshman Shane Doss getting most of the minutes in goal.

Faceoffs may be key tomorrow. Liam O'Connor has been sensational at the dot for ND, winning 63.6 percent of his draws. ND is a top-ten riding team, but they are terrible at clearing the ball (number 60 in the country).

The weather forecast calls for a 30 percent chance of snow overnight, and a high temperature of 46 tomorrow, so conditions could be challenging for both teams.

Duke is favored, and rightly so, but this game could go in any number of directions.

[MCFinARL]

Big game with big implications.

The Brawling Papists come in with a 4-3 record, 2-1 in ACC play. They lost to Cuse at the Dome in their last outing. Duke is 9-2, 2-1, riding a five-game winning streak. The winner moves into a tie with Maryland at the top of the ACC. ND has won the last four regular-season meetings between the two.

So far this year, the key to beating ND has been simplicity itself: stop sophomore attackman Matt Kavanaugh, and you stop the Irish. He has 26 points in their four wins, and seven in their three losses. Henry Lobb will likely draw the assignment on Kavanaugh, but look for Duke to help early and aggressively to force the ball out of his stick.

Conor Doyle has been the secondary offensive threat for ND. Senior midfielder Jim Marlatt, who I had as a preseason first-team All-American, has started slowly this year.

Stephen O'Hara, who is a lock to be a first-team All-American, is the heart and soul of the Irish defense. Expect to see him on Jordan Wolf.

Goalkeeping, traditionally a strength for ND, has not been such this year. ND keepers are at 47 percent so far this year, with freshman Shane Doss getting most of the minutes in goal.

Faceoffs may be key tomorrow. Liam O'Connor has been sensational at the dot for ND, winning 63.6 percent of his draws. ND is a top-ten riding team, but they are terrible at clearing the ball (number 60 in the country).

The weather forecast calls for a 30 percent chance of snow overnight, and a high temperature of 46 tomorrow, so conditions could be challenging for both teams.

Duke is favored, and rightly so, but this game could go in any number of directions.

Really helpful analysis, thanks--now I know just what to watch for. Game is in South Bend, right? That could give a boost to the Irish.

[chrishoke]

Duke with the 3-1 lead after one. ND has been great at the X, but has several unforced errors in running their offense.

[MCFinARL]

Duke with the 3-1 lead after one. ND has been great at the X, but has several unforced errors in running their offense.

Yes--Duke defense is playing pretty well but they are getting some help from ND errors.

Duke offense looking pretty solid so far.

[chrishoke]

Wolf with the hat trick on his signature wrap around move. Duke 4-1.

[chrishoke]

Deemer matches Wolf with his own hat trick, 6-2 Duke. Fowler has been much better at the X this period.

Halftime.

[burnspbesq]

Duke D putting on a clinic so far. ND has gone 27 minutes without an even-strength goal. Lobb is winning his matchup against Kavanaugh, and ND's complementary players are MIA.

On offense, Duke is running two-man games all over the offensive zone, the pick-and-roll and pick-and pop are forcing ND to slide, and Duke has been moving the ball out of double-teams crisply.

Thirty more minutes of this would be quite nice, TYVM.

[MCFinARL]

Not the best start to the second half as Notre Dame gets a point blank scoring opportunity with an aggressive ride.

But Class comes right back to score, and Duke gets the ball again on a dead ball foul.

[chrishoke]

11-3 now. Duke passing and movement have been sweet. I love seeing ND's whiny coach so frustrated and angry. Ha.

[devildeac]

11-3 now. Duke passing and movement have been sweet.

Stall ball time!:rolleyes:

Thanks for the updates.

[burnspbesq]

Did not see this coming. Don't know if I've seen a Duke team play better in the last five years.

[MCFinARL]

Did not see this coming. Don't know if I've seen a Duke team play better in the last five years.

Aaand, apparently Duke has decided to make it interesting as ND scores three times in under 3 minutes.

[MCFinARL]

Despite the occasional lapses in the second half, Duke looks weirdly awesome overall to win 15-7. Hope they can keep this up.

[burnspbesq]

A dominant performance by Duke at both ends of the field. At one point, we held ND without an even-strength goal for 39 minutes.

Duke moves into a first-place tie in the ACC (although Murlund has the first tie-breaker based on the head-to-head win).

Next up: Hoos, next Friday at 1800 EDT up in Hooville.

[burnspbesq]

#1 Loyola has to go double-OT to beat Navy, and Harvard goes to Ithaca and throttles #2 Cornell, 14-9.

Duke will probably not be number one when the polls get updated on Monday, but they will surely get some first-place votes. Over the last three weeks, nobody has been better.

[chrishoke]

Both those scores are astonishing. Navy is horrible and Harvard is mediocre.

[MCFinARL]

Both those scores are astonishing. Navy is horrible and Harvard is mediocre.

Tough day for a lot of teams ranked between 10 and 20 as well, as #11 Bryant, #12 UMass and #16 Colgate all lost to unranked teams.

[75Crazie]

Who won the Virginia/Carolina game? I had to leave when it was 9-9 mid-way through the 4th quarter.

[burnspbesq]

Who won the Virginia/Carolina game? I had to leave when it was 9-9 mid-way through the 4th quarter.

Carolina, 11-10. Keenan got the winner straight from a face off, and Creighton had an amazing CT/GB to preserve the win. Hoos got the ball back on a timer-on violation with 20 seconds left and promptly threw it away.

[johnb]

Up to #2 with 2 first place votes...

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/polls/DI

[chrishoke]

Up to #2 with 2 first place votes...

http://www.insidelacrosse.com/polls/DI

Interesting that Maryland beat us handily and has one less loss than we do and yet is ranked behind us at #3.

[MCFinARL]

Interesting that Maryland beat us handily and has one less loss than we do and yet is ranked behind us at #3.

Um, yes. Makes you wonder how hard the media voters think about these ballots before they vote. If it's all about who looked best last weekend, that is one thing, but if they are supposed to be taking the whole season into account, this result just seems a little bizarre.

[roywhite]

Question for the serious Lacrosse fans:

It seems like Duke shows terrific improvement during the season, even relative to other good teams. The results seem to indicate that this year and in the last few years, too.

Is this mostly attributable to outstanding coaching of Coach Danowski and his staff, or is this there more to the story? In what ways does the team improve that it reflects in the game results?

[MCFinARL]

Question for the serious Lacrosse fans:

It seems like Duke shows terrific improvement during the season, even relative to other good teams. The results seem to indicate that this year and in the last few years, too.

Is this mostly attributable to outstanding coaching of Coach Danowski and his staff, or is this there more to the story? In what ways does the team improve that it reflects in the game results?

I can address the first question, though you will need an even more serious lacrosse fan, with a better technical knowledge of the game, to address the second.

Coach Danowski has talked about his approach to coaching from time to time. During each season, he begins with fundamentals, with the idea that, if the players get the basics down properly so that they know how to play sound fundamental lacrosse, by the end of the season they will able to make good decisions in games, work well as a unit, and respond effectively to whatever situations arise on the field. More complex stuff gets added in as the season goes along and the team is ready for it, and things are changed as needed. He assumes there will be mistakes, and sometimes losses, early, but that those will be important learning experiences.
This article (http://www.insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/05/25/magazine-special-how-john-danowski-leads-blue-devils-march-2012-issue) from Inside Lacrosse, originally published in 2012, provides some interesting insights and calls Danowski "the last of the great teachers in Division I lacrosse."

[burnspbesq]

It's two things: players growing into their roles, and the staff installing more of the system as the season goes on.

The two guys who have shown the most growth this season have been Deemer Class and Myles Jones. Last year, they were complementary players whose primary job was to get out of Josh Offit's way. With the loss of Lawson, Tripucka, and Offit to graduation, they had to step up and become the primary midfield threats. Both started slow, but since the Loyola game both have locked in.

The addition of pages to the playbook over the course of the season was particularly obvious against ND. It had been quite a while since we saw Duke play two-man games above GLE (goal-line-extended, for those not familiar with the terminology). The lax equivalent of the high screen-and-roll gave ND's defense fits, and Duke was able to move the ball more quickly than ND could slide and recover.

Oh, by the way: Duke is number one in the first "official" RPI, which was released today.

[TruBlu]

Question for the serious Lacrosse fans:

It seems like Duke shows terrific improvement during the season, even relative to other good teams. The results seem to indicate that this year and in the last few years, too.

Is this mostly attributable to outstanding coaching of Coach Danowski and his staff, or is this there more to the story? In what ways does the team improve that it reflects in the game results?


I can address the first question, though you will need an even more serious lacrosse fan, with a better technical knowledge of the game, to address the second.

Coach Danowski has talked about his approach to coaching from time to time. During each season, he begins with fundamentals, with the idea that, if the players get the basics down properly so that they know how to play sound fundamental lacrosse, by the end of the season they will able to make good decisions in games, work well as a unit, and respond effectively to whatever situations arise on the field. More complex stuff gets added in as the season goes along and the team is ready for it, and things are changed as needed. He assumes there will be mistakes, and sometimes losses, early, but that those will be important learning experiences.
This article (http://www.insidelacrosse.com/news/2013/05/25/magazine-special-how-john-danowski-leads-blue-devils-march-2012-issue) from Inside Lacrosse, originally published in 2012, provides some interesting insights and calls Danowski "the last of the great teachers in Division I lacrosse."


To support what MCFinARL posted:

I am not a very serious lacrosse fan (I only watch Duke and don't totally understand all the rules), but one of the announcers in the ND game explained it as follows (paraphrasing): Early in the year Coach D basically rolls the ball out on the field and lets his team play while carefully observing what needs to be worked on, and what strategy will best fit his team. Then he implements the changes and necessary coaching-up. He also added that if you are going to schedule a game against Duke, you need to schedule it early in the year when Duke is somewhat beatable.:)

[pamtelp]

Coach Danowski is simply the best lacrosse coach in the country. His ability to develop individuals and teams year after year is unrivaled. Not only that, he is a wonderful human being.

If lacrosse were a bigger sport he would be the most celebrated coach on Duke's campus! He is that good.



To support what MCFinARL posted:

I am not a very serious lacrosse fan (I only watch Duke and don't totally understand all the rules), but one of the announcers in the ND game explained it as follows (paraphrasing): Early in the year Coach D basically rolls the ball out on the field and lets his team play while carefully observing what needs to be worked on, and what strategy will best fit his team. Then he implements the changes and necessary coaching-up. He also added that if you are going to schedule a game against Duke, you need to schedule it early in the year when Duke is somewhat beatable.:)

[Mudge]

Carolina, 11-10. Keenan got the winner straight from a face off, and Creighton had an amazing CT/GB to preserve the win. Hoos got the ball back on a timer-on violation with 20 seconds left and promptly threw it away.

I was under the impression that the name of this rule was "Time or On"-- as in you must have a shot on goal (and it must be "on goal"-- within the frame of the pipes) or the refs will call "Time" at the end of the 30 seconds.... is it in fact, as you have stated here, the "Timer On" rule-- meaning simply that the 30-second timer is on for you to shoot?

Also, while I can appreciate the attempt at humor in your thread-starter message, how did you translate "Fighting Irish" to "Brawling Papists"? Many who are not Irish, are in fact, Papists (and a good number who are Irish are most vehemently not Papists), so the logic escapes me... seems more like you might have gone with Battling Gaelics or Pugilistic Celtics....

[devildeac]

I was under the impression that the name of this rule was "Time or On"-- as in you must have a shot on goal (and it must be "on goal"-- within the frame of the pipes) or the refs will call "Time" at the end of the 30 seconds.... is it in fact, as you have stated here, the "Timer On" rule-- meaning simply that the 30-second timer is on for you to shoot?

Also, while I can appreciate the attempt at humor in your thread-starter message, how did you translate "Fighting Irish" to "Brawling Papists"? Many who are not Irish, are in fact, Papists (and a good number who are Irish are most vehemently not Papists), so the logic escapes me... seems more like you might have gone with Battling Gaelics or Pugilistic Celtics....

Maybe he was thinking about/confused over the Fighting Sylvias/Hatchells:rolleyes:.

[budwom]

Um, yes. Makes you wonder how hard the media voters think about these ballots before they vote. If it's all about who looked best last weekend, that is one thing, but if they are supposed to be taking the whole season into account, this result just seems a little bizarre.

I think the lacrosse media are more up on things than you guys are...Duke's the hottest team in the country now, haven't lost in four weeks. Maryland lost two weeks ago at Chapel Hill (no disgrace). Just as in football
and basketball polls, teams that are currently winning move up, teams that take a loss move down, regardless of who beat whom a month or two ago.

[Faison1]

I was under the impression that the name of this rule was "Time or On"-- as in you must have a shot on goal (and it must be "on goal"-- within the frame of the pipes) or the refs will call "Time" at the end of the 30 seconds.... is it in fact, as you have stated here, the "Timer On" rule-- meaning simply that the 30-second timer is on for you to shoot?

Having played my last lacrosse game 20 years ago, my memory of the rules is a bit fuzzy, but when someone says "Timer On", it means the official who is in charge of timing the game, physically walks onto the field with one minute left in the first half, and one minute left in the game. He/She will stand next to the field official and let them know when the clock is expiring. The rule does two things: it helps the ref know exactly when the game is over, and it let's the team know they are down to one minute. Everyone on the sidelines shouts: "Timer On!"

"Timer On" has been in place as long as I can remember. The "Shot-On-Goal" thing, or "Shot-Clock" rule is relatively new.

[MCFinARL]

I think the lacrosse media are more up on things than you guys are...Duke's the hottest team in the country now, haven't lost in four weeks. Maryland lost two weeks ago at Chapel Hill (no disgrace). Just as in football
and basketball polls, teams that are currently winning move up, teams that take a loss move down, regardless of who beat whom a month or two ago.

I appreciate the helpful explanation, although I did not actually just fall off of the turnip truck. My error, having not paid close attention to the polls each week, was in not realizing that Duke had already jumped ahead of Maryland, immediately after Maryland's loss. Once that happened, obviously there would be no reason for the order to change this week. I could still make the argument, however--and probably would--that it is a bit odd for a 2-loss team to be ahead of a 1-loss team that beat them. But I do understand that that is how polls work and that Duke is playing very well right now. May it continue.

[budwom]

I appreciate the helpful explanation, although I did not actually just fall off of the turnip truck. My error, having not paid close attention to the polls each week, was in not realizing that Duke had already jumped ahead of Maryland, immediately after Maryland's loss. Once that happened, obviously there would be no reason for the order to change this week. I could still make the argument, however--and probably would--that it is a bit odd for a 2-loss team to be ahead of a 1-loss team that beat them. But I do understand that that is how polls work and that Duke is playing very well right now. May it continue.

Nope, didn't mean to imply you fell off the turnip truck, but you did besmirch the media voters (always an easy target)....I'm just pointing out most of those folks (since lacrosse is not a widely followed sport)
pay VERY good attention to the game....much more so than the masses who get to vote in the hoop and football polls.

[Mudge]

Having played my last lacrosse game 20 years ago, my memory of the rules is a bit fuzzy, but when someone says "Timer On", it means the official who is in charge of timing the game, physically walks onto the field with one minute left in the first half, and one minute left in the game. He/She will stand next to the field official and let them know when the clock is expiring. The rule does two things: it helps the ref know exactly when the game is over, and it let's the team know they are down to one minute. Everyone on the sidelines shouts: "Timer On!"

"Timer On" has been in place as long as I can remember. The "Shot-On-Goal" thing, or "Shot-Clock" rule is relatively new.

Well, I don't begin to know the rules like you do (having not played at a high level), but I think the rules did change (and just last year or two, IIRC), with a new rule requiring the offensive team to get off a shot, once they are told they are on the clock, by the officials-- but, I thought that if the offense gets an on-target shot off (without scoring, obviously), then they can continue past the time allotted-- so it is not like the "Timer On" rule that you may remember, calling out the end of a period-- this rule can apply mid-period, and is akin to a shot-clock (don't know why lacrosse didn't just adopt that nomenclature-- in fact, don't know why lacrosse doesn't adopt that practice all throughout the game-- it was quite boring/frustrating to play ND [and sometimes Maryland] in past years, when they would hold the ball for long periods on offense, with little attempt to score, when they were ahead-- that deliberate stallball was not much fun to watch.)

Anyway, the question still stands: Is it "Timer On" or "Time or On" that the refs are calling with this new rule?

[MCFinARL]

Nope, didn't mean to imply you fell off the turnip truck, but you did besmirch the media voters (always an easy target)....I'm just pointing out most of those folks (since lacrosse is not a widely followed sport)
pay VERY good attention to the game....much more so than the masses who get to vote in the hoop and football polls.

Fair enough--point taken.:)

[burnspbesq]

I was under the impression that the name of this rule was "Time or On"-- as in you must have a shot on goal (and it must be "on goal"-- within the frame of the pipes) or the refs will call "Time" at the end of the 30 seconds.... is it in fact, as you have stated here, the "Timer On" rule-- meaning simply that the 30-second timer is on for you to shoot?

Also, while I can appreciate the attempt at humor in your thread-starter message, how did you translate "Fighting Irish" to "Brawling Papists"? Many who are not Irish, are in fact, Papists (and a good number who are Irish are most vehemently not Papists), so the logic escapes me... seems more like you might have gone with Battling Gaelics or Pugilistic Celtics....

Some number of years ago, the official time was moved from the scorer's table to the scoreboard, so the old "clock on" ritual where someone chased an official up and down with the official time in his/her hand for the last minute of every quarter has been banished to the memories of old coots like you and me. "Timer on" is the accepted shorthand for what McAnaney refers to as the "30-second invisible shot clock." My thoughts on this rule are better saved for another thread.:mad:

Back when "Papist" was the next best thing to a racial slur, the vast majority of Papists in this country were newly arrived Irish immigrants, so I think the usage is not inappropriate (and if I'm wrong, my ancestors who arrived here from Donegal in the Summer of 1848 can come to me in a dream and correct me).:cool:

[Faison1]

Some number of years ago, the official time was moved from the scorer's table to the scoreboard, so the old "clock on" ritual where someone chased an official up and down with the official time in his/her hand for the last minute of every quarter has been banished to the memories of old coots like you and me. "Timer on" is the accepted shorthand for what McAnaney refers to as the "30-second invisible shot clock." My thoughts on this rule are better saved for another thread.:mad:

Back when "Papist" was the next best thing to a racial slur, the vast majority of Papists in this country were newly arrived Irish immigrants, so I think the usage is not inappropriate (and if I'm wrong, my ancestors who arrived here from Donegal in the Summer of 1848 can come to me in a dream and correct me).:cool:

I stand corrected. Thank you.

Being a traditionalist, I still like the idea of having a young woman with a clock in her hand chase the ref up and down the field while fearing that a stray lacrosse ball might strike her.