2014 NBA Draft early entry

[JasonEvans]

I suppose we need a thread to track early entry among non-Dukies.

We already know about TJ Warren turning pro (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?33552-TJ-Warren-to-the-NBA).

This morning, Gary Parrish reported that Embiid will be turning pro (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24502505/kansas-star-joel-embiid-to-enter-2014-nba-draft-after-one-season). Not a huge surprise. There have been talk he might come back but I think the back injury cemented that he needs to come out now lest he remain hurt and get labelled as injury prone. Even with the back questions, hard to see him not going top 3 or 4.

-Jason "need to look around and see who else need to be added to this thread" Evans

[CDu]

I suppose we need a thread to track early entry among non-Dukies.

We already know about TJ Warren turning pro (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?33552-TJ-Warren-to-the-NBA).

This morning, Gary Parrish reported that Embiid will be turning pro (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24502505/kansas-star-joel-embiid-to-enter-2014-nba-draft-after-one-season). Not a huge surprise. There have been talk he might come back but I think the back injury cemented that he needs to come out now lest he remain hurt and get labelled as injury prone. Even with the back questions, hard to see him not going top 3 or 4.

-Jason "need to look around and see who else need to be added to this thread" Evans

In the interest of full disclosure, TJ Warren has said he has not decided yet. I mean, I think we all know that he's going to go. But he hasn't made that official yet.

I suspect the same is true for Embiid (both the officiality of the decision and the eventual outcome).

[MCFinARL]

Indiana's Noah Vonleh (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24498466/indiana-freshman-star-noah-vonleh-will-enter-the-2014-nba-draft) apparently entering the draft, by his own report.

Also Big East Rookie of the Year JaKarr Sampson. (http://www.redstormsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032414aab.html)

Some confusion about LaQuinton Ross of OSU, who was reported to be leaving but then tweeted that he hasn't decided yet.

[Henderson]

If Embiid goes, that benefits Kansas in the Turner sweepstakes, no?

[Henderson]

Indiana's Noah Vonleh (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24498466/indiana-freshman-star-noah-vonleh-will-enter-the-2014-nba-draft) apparently entering the draft, by his own report.

Also Big East Rookie of the Year JaKarr Sampson. (http://www.redstormsports.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/032414aab.html)

Some confusion about LaQuinton Ross of OSU, who was reported to be leaving but then tweeted that he hasn't decided yet.

Seems like a good move for Vonleh and expected. Not so sure about Sampson. He could go mid-first round, but more likely late first or even early second. Maybe he and others think he's peaked as a college player. He is 21 years old. I liked the part of his announcement regarding his (and his mother's) desire to see him finish his degree with the help of St. John's staff by taking courses in the off season.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I suspect the same is true for Embiid (both the officiality of the decision and the eventual outcome).

Embiid is 20 years old? That's even more reason to enter the draft.

Bad back + sophomore age + top 3 pick = no brainer

[BD80]

Soph. Jahii Carson from ASU admitted after his final home game he'll be in the draft

[tommy]

Kyle Anderson's dad has been saying openly for a long time that this year is it at UCLA for his son.

On another early-entry related topic that I always think about, and admittedly it causes a degree of fear no matter how optimistic I am about Duke's prospects, is how certain teams will look next year if some of their guys don't go pro. For instance, I'm very concerned about Arizona and Michigan next year if they don't lose any guys, and they might not.

Arizona's two juniors are starting guards Nick Johnson and TJ McConnell. I suppose Johnson could go, but I won't be shocked if he comes back. McConnell isn't going anywhere. Their other key players are two sophs (Tarczewski and Ashley, who has already said he's coming back) plus Aaron Gordon (whose stock has dropped over the course of the season, since he can't shoot) and fellow frosh Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Gabe York. I heard a few rumblings that Hollis-Jefferson may be considering leaving, but I'll believe it when I see it. So I could easily see their whole team coming back next year, plus they add the best high school player in the west, and one of the top 5 in the country, in Stanley Johnson, who even if Gordon leaves will step right into his role. This obviously is one of the very best teams in the country this year, and if they don't lose anybody -- or even if they lose just one guy, be it Gordon or Johnson -- is going to be downright scary next year.

Michigan has just one senior, big man Jordan Morgan, but he's a role player. Junior big man Jon Horford will be back. Now it's possible Mitch McGary, Glenn Robinson, and/or Nik Stauskas, all sophomores, could go to the league, but none would surprise me by coming back to Ann Arbor. McGary, as is true with a lot of guys coming off of a significant injury, could feel like he better get to the NBA before he gets hurt again, or he could feel like he has unfinished business in college. Robinson almost came out last year, but has been a bit of a disappointment in that he has not shown the ability to take over games at the college level. His stock has fallen. And of course he doesn't need the money. Stauskas' stock has risen dramatically, and he may not have a whole lot more growth to make in college, and if a kid like that can get into the late lottery or even just outside it, maybe he goes. But it's far from certain in my mind. Soph Caris LeVert has been excellent this year, but he's not ready for the NBA. Then they have the freshman point guard Walton coming back, the freshman wing Zak Irvin, both of whom will be better next year, plus soph Spike Albrecht as well. That is a very deep and experienced and talented team, potentially. If they don't lose a couple of guys, this team is going to be a monster next year.

[CDu]

Kyle Anderson's dad has been saying openly for a long time that this year is it at UCLA for his son.

On another early-entry related topic that I always think about, and admittedly it causes a degree of fear no matter how optimistic I am about Duke's prospects, is how certain teams will look next year if some of their guys don't go pro. For instance, I'm very concerned about Arizona and Michigan next year if they don't lose any guys, and they might not.

Arizona's two juniors are starting guards Nick Johnson and TJ McConnell. I suppose Johnson could go, but I won't be shocked if he comes back. McConnell isn't going anywhere. Their other key players are two sophs (Tarczewski and Ashley, who has already said he's coming back) plus Aaron Gordon (whose stock has dropped over the course of the season, since he can't shoot) and fellow frosh Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Gabe York. I heard a few rumblings that Hollis-Jefferson may be considering leaving, but I'll believe it when I see it. So I could easily see their whole team coming back next year, plus they add the best high school player in the west, and one of the top 5 in the country, in Stanley Johnson, who even if Gordon leaves will step right into his role. This obviously is one of the very best teams in the country this year, and if they don't lose anybody -- or even if they lose just one guy, be it Gordon or Johnson -- is going to be downright scary next year.

Michigan has just one senior, big man Jordan Morgan, but he's a role player. Junior big man Jon Horford will be back. Now it's possible Mitch McGary, Glenn Robinson, and/or Nik Stauskas, all sophomores, could go to the league, but none would surprise me by coming back to Ann Arbor. McGary, as is true with a lot of guys coming off of a significant injury, could feel like he better get to the NBA before he gets hurt again, or he could feel like he has unfinished business in college. Robinson almost came out last year, but has been a bit of a disappointment in that he has not shown the ability to take over games at the college level. His stock has fallen. And of course he doesn't need the money. Stauskas' stock has risen dramatically, and he may not have a whole lot more growth to make in college, and if a kid like that can get into the late lottery or even just outside it, maybe he goes. But it's far from certain in my mind. Soph Caris LeVert has been excellent this year, but he's not ready for the NBA. Then they have the freshman point guard Walton coming back, the freshman wing Zak Irvin, both of whom will be better next year, plus soph Spike Albrecht as well. That is a very deep and experienced and talented team, potentially. If they don't lose a couple of guys, this team is going to be a monster next year.

I think that McGary, Robinson, Stauskas, Gordon, and Tarczewski are serious threats to go pro early. Johnson is a bit too much of a tweener, so I doubt he goes.

But I agree that, if all but a couple of those guys stay, those teams will be REALLY good next year.

[UrinalCake]

I wonder how many top-15 type guys would have to leave before it affected Hood's decision on whether to go? If his projected spot gets pushed down out of the lottery, I would think that would heavily make him consider staying at Duke.

[LobstersPinchPinch]

If Embiid goes, that benefits Kansas in the Turner sweepstakes, no?

Given he wasn't going to KU if Emblid remained, yeah, they're back in the driver's seat for Turner. I think UTX is the most likely alternate location.

If he ends up at KU, could make a very strong argument they have the top overall class, with 3 of the top 7 recruits (vs. 3 of the top 13 for Duke). Although I'd take our class over KU's, given we'll have a world-class point guard and KU....well their PG situation remains grim.

[CDu]

I wonder how many top-15 type guys would have to leave before it affected Hood's decision on whether to go? If his projected spot gets pushed down out of the lottery, I would think that would heavily make him consider staying at Duke.

I don't think he's going to drop out of the top 20 picks, so I don't think it's going to make that much of a difference.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I wonder how many top-15 type guys would have to leave before it affected Hood's decision on whether to go? If his projected spot gets pushed down out of the lottery, I would think that would heavily make him consider staying at Duke.

Hood is already 21-years old. Would it be worth delaying one more year to get into the lottery? Hood could probably make around $2-3 additional if he went from the 20th pick to the 14th pick (http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale), but how much would he lose in peak income? Probably $10 mill or so?

This is assuming, of course, that an additional year at Duke is equivalent to a rookie year in the NBA. That is up for debate.

[Olympic Fan]

The feedback I got at the ACC Tournament from a couple of very knowledgeable sources was that there will be a parade of ACC players bolting for the draft.

Obviously, Parker and Hood were at the top of the list. But also expected to go:

Tony Warren, N.C. State (while reported, nothing official ... Warren tweeted that he's still making up his mind)
Olivier Hanlan, BC (I have no idea if the coaching change could change his mind)
Tyler Ennis, Syracuse (my source was positive that he was gone)
K.J. McDaniels, Clemson (I talked to McDaniels in Greensboro and he was very careful to say he would weigh his options after the season)
Montrez Harrell, Louisville (will be an ACC guy next year if he returns)

That's seven guys expected to go ... also possible:

James Michael McAdoo, UNC (although his stock has dropped to the point where he might not be first round)
Jerami Grant, Syracuse (if he and Ennis go, along with a graduating Fair, the Orange take a big hit)
Dez Wells, Maryland (although he's not longer the ACC's problem)

[JasonEvans]

ESPN is reporting that sources tell them Ennis is leaving Cuse for the NBA. Not a big shocker given that he is projected as a lottery pick. Plus, his stock could really go down next year if having less skilled teammates causes him to struggle.

-Jason "Hood ain't staying -- he's chronologically a junior" Evans

[superdave]

Yesterday's Chad Ford chat (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/50277/nba-insider-chad-ford)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

The feedback I got at the ACC Tournament from a couple of very knowledgeable sources was that there will be a parade of ACC players bolting for the draft.

Obviously, Parker and Hood were at the top of the list. But also expected to go:

Tony Warren, N.C. State (while reported, nothing official ... Warren tweeted that he's still making up his mind)
Olivier Hanlan, BC (I have no idea if the coaching change could change his mind)
Tyler Ennis, Syracuse (my source was positive that he was gone)
K.J. McDaniels, Clemson (I talked to McDaniels in Greensboro and he was very careful to say he would weigh his options after the season)
Montrez Harrell, Louisville (will be an ACC guy next year if he returns)

That's seven guys expected to go ... also possible:

James Michael McAdoo, UNC (although his stock has dropped to the point where he might not be first round)
Jerami Grant, Syracuse (if he and Ennis go, along with a graduating Fair, the Orange take a big hit)
Dez Wells, Maryland (although he's not longer the ACC's problem)

With Fair graduating, if Ennis leaves I think Grant makes a Big Leap at the Orange. I say this with zero knowledge of who they have coming in, but he seems to be a very talented young man with pretty good attitude. Star in waiting, if you will.

[CDu]

With Fair graduating, if Ennis leaves I think Grant makes a Big Leap at the Orange. I say this with zero knowledge of who they have coming in, but he seems to be a very talented young man with pretty good attitude. Star in waiting, if you will.

Syracuse does have some talent in Roberson and some incoming freshmen. But yes, Grant looks to take on a much bigger role with the loss of Fair.

However, I think that team's fortunes depend entirely on the return of Ennis. He was their only PG this year. If he goes, they'll be relying on a less-talented freshman PG to carry the burden of running the offense.

[scottdude8]

Michigan has just one senior, big man Jordan Morgan, but he's a role player. Junior big man Jon Horford will be back. Now it's possible Mitch McGary, Glenn Robinson, and/or Nik Stauskas, all sophomores, could go to the league, but none would surprise me by coming back to Ann Arbor. McGary, as is true with a lot of guys coming off of a significant injury, could feel like he better get to the NBA before he gets hurt again, or he could feel like he has unfinished business in college. Robinson almost came out last year, but has been a bit of a disappointment in that he has not shown the ability to take over games at the college level. His stock has fallen. And of course he doesn't need the money. Stauskas' stock has risen dramatically, and he may not have a whole lot more growth to make in college, and if a kid like that can get into the late lottery or even just outside it, maybe he goes. But it's far from certain in my mind. Soph Caris LeVert has been excellent this year, but he's not ready for the NBA. Then they have the freshman point guard Walton coming back, the freshman wing Zak Irvin, both of whom will be better next year, plus soph Spike Albrecht as well. That is a very deep and experienced and talented team, potentially. If they don't lose a couple of guys, this team is going to be a monster next year.

As a guy who covers Michigan very closely, I can't agree with this more. If all three of those guys come back, I think Michigan is the No. 1 team to start the year next year, assuming Jabari goes pro. In all likelihood, though, I think at least one of the three will go, probably Stauskas. And as much as I'd love to see the Canadian sharpshooter wearing Maize and Blue for one more season, I think if Michigan just loses him (or in a weird scenario just loses Robinson) they're still a top-5 team, because Irvin has shown huge potential this year and I believe can step into the starting lineup as a sophomore... especially considering his role, on a team where LeVert will be the primary scorer, will be primarily as a shooter and guy who can use his unique size to defend.

Both my teams could be in the Top-5 in the country to start next season, regardless of early entries. If things fall correctly they could easily be 1-2. That makes me very happy.

[dukebluesincebirth]

msn.foxsports.com/kansas-city/story/what-s-it-gonna-be-jojo-ku-s-embiid-says-he-hasn-t-made-an-nba-decision-yet-032714?cmpid=msn%3Afoxsports%3Aansfox11

Embiid says he's still undecided.

[Olympic Fan]

Syracuse does have some talent in Roberson and some incoming freshmen. But yes, Grant looks to take on a much bigger role with the loss of Fair.

However, I think that team's fortunes depend entirely on the return of Ennis. He was their only PG this year. If he goes, they'll be relying on a less-talented freshman PG to carry the burden of running the offense.

Don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a 2015 ACC preview, but Syracuse does have a pretty well-regarded incoming point guard in Kaleb Joseph, who is rated only as bit lower than Ennis was coming out of HS (of course, Ennis was much better than his ratings). The Orange will have great size next season with Christmas back and with DeJaun Coleman (a 2013 starter who missed last year with an injury) back down low. If Grant does leave, they also have a top 50 forward in 6-10 Chris McCullough coming in.

Their problem will be the perimeter. I agree that Ennis to Joseph looks like a dropoff. They need somebody to push/help Cooney (his dropoff late was their biggest late-season problem). There just aren't any other outside options on the roster or in the recruiting pipeline

[burns15]

Kyle Anderson's dad has been saying openly for a long time that this year is it at UCLA for his son.

On another early-entry related topic that I always think about, and admittedly it causes a degree of fear no matter how optimistic I am about Duke's prospects, is how certain teams will look next year if some of their guys don't go pro. For instance, I'm very concerned about Arizona and Michigan next year if they don't lose any guys, and they might not.

Arizona's two juniors are starting guards Nick Johnson and TJ McConnell. I suppose Johnson could go, but I won't be shocked if he comes back. McConnell isn't going anywhere. Their other key players are two sophs (Tarczewski and Ashley, who has already said he's coming back) plus Aaron Gordon (whose stock has dropped over the course of the season, since he can't shoot) and fellow frosh Rondae Hollis-Jefferson and Gabe York. I heard a few rumblings that Hollis-Jefferson may be considering leaving, but I'll believe it when I see it. So I could easily see their whole team coming back next year, plus they add the best high school player in the west, and one of the top 5 in the country, in Stanley Johnson, who even if Gordon leaves will step right into his role. This obviously is one of the very best teams in the country this year, and if they don't lose anybody -- or even if they lose just one guy, be it Gordon or Johnson -- is going to be downright scary next year.

Michigan has just one senior, big man Jordan Morgan, but he's a role player. Junior big man Jon Horford will be back. Now it's possible Mitch McGary, Glenn Robinson, and/or Nik Stauskas, all sophomores, could go to the league, but none would surprise me by coming back to Ann Arbor. McGary, as is true with a lot of guys coming off of a significant injury, could feel like he better get to the NBA before he gets hurt again, or he could feel like he has unfinished business in college. Robinson almost came out last year, but has been a bit of a disappointment in that he has not shown the ability to take over games at the college level. His stock has fallen. And of course he doesn't need the money. Stauskas' stock has risen dramatically, and he may not have a whole lot more growth to make in college, and if a kid like that can get into the late lottery or even just outside it, maybe he goes. But it's far from certain in my mind. Soph Caris LeVert has been excellent this year, but he's not ready for the NBA. Then they have the freshman point guard Walton coming back, the freshman wing Zak Irvin, both of whom will be better next year, plus soph Spike Albrecht as well. That is a very deep and experienced and talented team, potentially. If they don't lose a couple of guys, this team is going to be a monster next year.

I recognize that these teams would be supremely talented, but if you play the same game with Duke, I think you will find the same thing. If Jabari stays, you can make a valid argument that Duke should be the number 1 team in the nation coming into the year. I mean you are talking 5 potential 1st round picks in Jabari, Jahlil, Rasheed, Tyus, and Justise. And if Rodney and Jabari return, forget about it. We are talking one of the all-time most talented Duke teams there. Then add the fact that we could still, by some prayer, add Myles Turner.

I mean take this years team, add a legitimately elite PG and big man, and a more experienced back up big man in Plumlee, in addition to another elite wing defender to pair with Sheed. That fills our two major holes this year, plus adds another excelletn defensive player. I think that would add at a bare minimum 5-6 wins right there. Instead of a 26-8 team going into the tournament, you are talking about a 31-3 or 32-2 team, which would be the number 1 or 2 team in country behind Florida.

Just saying, I'd take Duke in the what-if game over either of those teams.

[El_Diablo]

ESPN is reporting that sources tell them Ennis is leaving Cuse for the NBA. Not a big shocker given that he is projected as a lottery pick. Plus, his stock could really go down next year if having less skilled teammates causes him to struggle.

-Jason "Hood ain't staying -- he's chronologically a junior" Evans

Ennis has made it official:

“I’d like to thank coach [Jim] Boeheim, the coaching staff, my teammates and the amazing fans of Syracuse for the opportunity to play at a great university like Syracuse,” Ennis said in a prepared statement. “I feel this experience has helped prepare me to fulfill my lifelong dream – to play in the NBA.”

http://nba.si.com/2014/03/27/tyler-ennis-declare-nba-draft-syracuse/

[MCFinARL]

I recognize that these teams would be supremely talented, but if you play the same game with Duke, I think you will find the same thing. If Jabari stays, you can make a valid argument that Duke should be the number 1 team in the nation coming into the year. I mean you are talking 5 potential 1st round picks in Jabari, Jahlil, Rasheed, Tyus, and Justise. And if Rodney and Jabari return, forget about it. We are talking one of the all-time most talented Duke teams there. Then add the fact that we could still, by some prayer, add Myles Turner.

I mean take this years team, add a legitimately elite PG and big man, and a more experienced back up big man in Plumlee, in addition to another elite wing defender to pair with Sheed. That fills our two major holes this year, plus adds another excelletn defensive player. I think that would add at a bare minimum 5-6 wins right there. Instead of a 26-8 team going into the tournament, you are talking about a 31-3 or 32-2 team, which would be the number 1 or 2 team in country behind Florida.

Just saying, I'd take Duke in the what-if game over either of those teams.

I might be inclined to agree with you but for one thing--even if Jabari returns, you are talking about building a new team with big roles for freshman players--something that didn't work as well for us this year as we might have hoped. They obviously could/would still be very good, but Michigan and Arizona, assuming their players return, would be relying more on more experienced players, with less dependence on freshmen.

[CDu]

Don't want to hijack this thread and turn it into a 2015 ACC preview, but Syracuse does have a pretty well-regarded incoming point guard in Kaleb Joseph, who is rated only as bit lower than Ennis was coming out of HS (of course, Ennis was much better than his ratings). The Orange will have great size next season with Christmas back and with DeJaun Coleman (a 2013 starter who missed last year with an injury) back down low. If Grant does leave, they also have a top 50 forward in 6-10 Chris McCullough coming in.

Their problem will be the perimeter. I agree that Ennis to Joseph looks like a dropoff. They need somebody to push/help Cooney (his dropoff late was their biggest late-season problem). There just aren't any other outside options on the roster or in the recruiting pipeline

Yeah, Cuse had two big problems this year:
- lack of shooters on the perimeter (just Cooney, and he was REALLY streaky)
- only one PG

Fortunately for them, Ennis was a terrific PG from day one. He was ready to handle major minutes and ran the Cuse offense brilliantly. But I wouldn't expect every freshman PG to come in and handle the job essentially solo as well as Ennis did.

Now, if Ennis stays, then a backcourt of Ennis, Joseph, and Cooney is a dynamite combination. Especially with the combination of size/length/talent they have in their frontcourt.

But with just one PG and no clear options as perimeter shooters outside of Cooney, they may very well struggle.

[JasonEvans]

I think that McGary, Robinson, Stauskas, Gordon, and Tarczewski are serious threats to go pro early. Johnson is a bit too much of a tweener, so I doubt he goes.

But I agree that, if all but a couple of those guys stay, those teams will be REALLY good next year.

For what it is worth, Chad Forde says Nick and Nik (Johnson, AZ and Stauskas, MI) are pretty much in the draft. He puts them in the same category as Hood, Wiggins, Julius Randle, Marcus Smart, and James Young as guys who are all but certain to declare.

McGary, Robinson, Gordon, and Tarczewski are all listed in Forde's 50-50 camp as kids who could go or could decide to stay. He also lists Jabari and Rasheed Suliamon in the 50-50 camp.

-Jason "no idea if Chad knows what he is talking about" Evans

[Des Esseintes]

For what it is worth, Chad Forde says Nick and Nik (Johnson, AZ and Stauskas, MI) are pretty much in the draft. He puts them in the same category as Hood, Wiggins, Julius Randle, Marcus Smart, and James Young as guys who are all but certain to declare.

McGary, Robinson, Gordon, and Tarczewski are all listed in Forde's 50-50 camp as kids who could go or could decide to stay. He also lists Jabari and Rasheed Suliamon in the 50-50 camp.

-Jason "no idea if Chad knows what he is talking about" Evans

That's...interesting. Leaving aside the quality of Ford's intel, where could Rasheed expect to get drafted this year? Is he a first round guy? He seems like an end-of-the-first-round dude, but I confess I've thought so little about the possibility that I could be wildly off in either direction.

[kAzE]

If Jabari and Hood both leave, and those other guys like Warren, Grant, Harrell, etc. all go, UNC is looking to come out of this with a pretty strong squad, having all but secured their entire team this year minus McDonald. I think they will be a pretty serious contender next year in the ACC if all the other teams lose these early entrants.

[roywhite]

If Jabari and Hood both leave, and those other guys like Warren, Grant, Harrell, etc. all go, UNC is looking to come out of this with a pretty strong squad, having all but secured their entire team this year minus McDonald. I think they will be a pretty serious contender next year in the ACC if all the other teams lose these early entrants.

Remarkable how the Heels seem able to retain potential early entry guys for an extended stay. The latest examples are Marcus Paige and especially James Michael McAdoo, who was thought to be a one and done candidate, but is now likely to return for his senior year.

Not sure just what the attraction is for these players -- more time to soak up the folksy wisdom of Ole Roy, nice lifestyle in Chapel Hill, or perhaps the sterling academic opportunities?

[DevilYouKnow]

Remarkable how the Heels seem able to retain potential early entry guys for an extended stay. The latest examples are Marcus Paige and especially James Michael McAdoo, who was thought to be a one and done candidate, but is now likely to return for his senior year.

Not sure just what the attraction is for these players -- more time to soak up the folksy wisdom of Ole Roy, nice lifestyle in Chapel Hill, or perhaps the sterling academic opportunities?

Agree with original quote that the Heels will be very strong next year (ughhh.).

Also agree with roywhite that Ol' Roy's ability to convince players to stick around, even when it's clearly against their economic interests, is astounding. Very recently, IC posters were vilifying Coach K for keeping talent against players' best interest, while UNC was devoted only to the players and what's best for them.

McAdoo About Nothing has to stay to try to regain the mojo he once had then squandered in his soph and junior seasons.

[dukelifer]

Agree with original quote that the Heels will be very strong next year (ughhh.).

Also agree with roywhite that Ol' Roy's ability to convince players to stick around, even when it's clearly against their economic interests, is astounding. Very recently, IC posters were vilifying Coach K for keeping talent against players' best interest, while UNC was devoted only to the players and what's best for them.

McAdoo About Nothing has to stay to try to regain the mojo he once had then squandered in his soph and junior seasons.

I am not so sure this is true. Brandon Wright? Kendall Marshall? Both guys should have stayed. That said, the usual rule of thumb is to leave if you are a lottery pick. McAdoo may have had a shot - but he would have struggled in the NBA. Paige is borderline this year- particularly with this year's draft. Parker and Irving are outliers- top 3 picks. Rivers probably should have stayed but maybe K was not too sad to see him leave.

[OZ]

Remarkable how the Heels seem able to retain potential early entry guys for an extended stay. The latest examples are Marcus Paige and especially James Michael McAdoo, who was thought to be a one and done candidate, but is now likely to return for his senior year.

Perhaps the most persuasive influence in their return is that neither would be a high draft pick. In McAdoo's case, this seems to be a clear example of Roy's inability to develop big men.

[FerryFor50]

I am not so sure this is true. Brandon Wright? Kendall Marshall? Both guys should have stayed. That said, the usual rule of thumb is to leave if you are a lottery pick. McAdoo may have had a shot - but he would have struggled in the NBA. Paige is borderline this year- particularly with this year's draft. Parker and Irving are outliers- top 3 picks. Rivers probably should have stayed but maybe K was not too sad to see him leave.

Why should Wright have stayed? He was drafted 8th in the first round. Could he have improved his stock by staying a year? Maybe. But a lot easier to drop...

Marshall is a more interesting case, but was still picked 13th.

If the argument is "they should have stayed to get better," it's valid. But as many have pointed out, you get a lot more time to get better in the NBA than in college, where practices, coach time and workouts are all time limited by the NBA. Then there's that pesky AFAM homework you have to do...

[MCFinARL]

I am not so sure this is true. Brandon Wright? Kendall Marshall? Both guys should have stayed. That said, the usual rule of thumb is to leave if you are a lottery pick. McAdoo may have had a shot - but he would have struggled in the NBA. Paige is borderline this year- particularly with this year's draft. Parker and Irving are outliers- top 3 picks. Rivers probably should have stayed but maybe K was not too sad to see him leave.

Whether or not K was sad to see him leave, Rivers, as the son of an NBA coach, presumably had access to very good information and advice in making his decision. Under those circumstances, K might worry less about whether Rivers was making a poor or ill-informed decision than with other players. Although this may not have been your intention, your comment could be interpreted to suggest that K advised Rivers to leave, or didn't discourage him from leaving, even though Rivers wasn't ready. I don't think we have any basis on which to make that assumption. And apologies in advance if I am reading too much into your post.

[Matches]

I am not so sure this is true. Brandon Wright? Kendall Marshall? Both guys should have stayed.

Disagree about Marshall. Clearly his NBA career had a rocky start but he was a lottery pick despite not really being an elite prospect, and he's blossomed now in his 2nd year. He's had a really good season with the Lakers and looks like a good bet to play 10-12 years in the league.

[FerryFor50]

Disagree about Marshall. Clearly his NBA career had a rocky start but he was a lottery pick despite not really being an elite prospect, and he's blossomed now in his 2nd year. He's had a really good season with the Lakers and looks like a good bet to play 10-12 years in the league.

Also, while Wright took a while to get any PT, he seems to have found a home in Dallas. He's averaging 9 ppg and 4 boards this season. He also has earned over 15 mil so far.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wrighbr03.html

[Des Esseintes]

Also, while Wright took a while to get any PT, he seems to have found a home in Dallas. He's averaging 9 ppg and 4 boards this season. He also has earned over 15 mil so far.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wrighbr03.html

Wright is an example of a guy who went at the exact correct time. He was ready to contribute at the NBA level but in retrospect was not the #8 guy in that class. Had he stayed, he likely would have fallen closer to his true level. Great decision, and as you say, he's made a solid career for himself.

I think Kendall, too, maximized his opportunity, for the same reasons.

Also, and not apropos of your post, why some posters treat the mere mention of Austin Rivers as an imperative to slag him is beyond me.

[FerryFor50]

Also, and not apropos of your post, why some posters treat the mere mention of Austin Rivers as an imperative to slag him is beyond me.

Yea, not sure why that is, either.

I mean, he wasn't my favorite Duke player in the world, but he DID hit that shot over Tyler Zeller to beat UNC. That alone vindicates him for any other perceived transgressions...

[BD80]

Remarkable how the Heels seem able to retain potential early entry guys for an extended stay. The latest examples are Marcus Paige and especially James Michael McAdoo, who was thought to be a one and done candidate, but is now likely to return for his senior year.

Not sure just what the attraction is for these players -- more time to soak up the folksy wisdom of Ole Roy, nice lifestyle in Chapel Hill, or perhaps the sterling academic opportunities?

Maybe they want to stick around to learn to read. It is an upper level course at unc.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Wright is an example of a guy who went at the exact correct time. He was ready to contribute at the NBA level but in retrospect was not the #8 guy in that class. Had he stayed, he likely would have fallen closer to his true level. Great decision, and as you say, he's made a solid career for himself.

I think Kendall, too, maximized his opportunity, for the same reasons.

Could not agree more. Duke, IMO, hasn't had players maximize their opportunity by getting drafted at the right time. Rivers certainly did. I'm convinced that if River stayed another year, his stock may have fallen. Between his inconsistent shot and poor defense, I think he would have been taken out of the lottery. He left at the most opportune time, IMO.

From a draft prospective, Singler and McBob left Duke a year too late. Singler was a clear 1st round pick in 2010. McBob was a top 5, if not lottery pick, in 2006.

Of course, Duke has also had players increase their stock like crazy. Redick and Nolan Smith come to mind (2nd rounders taken in the middle of the first round). The NBA draft is such a crapshot, and a few bad games / few good games in college can be the difference between making $6 million in your first 3 years or being a 2nd round pick.

[CameronBornAndBred]

That's...interesting. Leaving aside the quality of Ford's intel, where could Rasheed expect to get drafted this year? Is he a first round guy? He seems like an end-of-the-first-round dude, but I confess I've thought so little about the possibility that I could be wildly off in either direction.
I agree. I was reading that post lazily until I saw Rasheed's name pop up, that is literally the first I've heard him mentioned. I'm wondering if it is Forde tossing a name out there to fill space as opposed to actual an actual source saying "pay attention here". Not knocking Forde, I find him respectable, but that is just so out of left field.

[JasonEvans]

To get this thread back on topic...

UCLA's Kyle Anderson is reportedly declaring for the draft (http://nba.si.com/2014/03/28/kyle-anderson-ucla-bruins-nba-draft/). This is hardly a surprise, though he is one of the guys Chad Forde had as "50-50" on his early entry list. Most folks project Anderson as a late teens-early 20s kind of pick and I really doubt he drops to the 2nd round. My Atlanta Hawks will be picking in that kind of range and I would love them to pick up Anderson. He has unique size and length for the PG position, even if his quickness and athleticism are lacking.

-Jason "by the way, I am not seeing Suliamon projected in either the 2014 or 2015 mocks I have looked at recently" Evans

[johnb]

To get this thread back on topic...

UCLA's Kyle Anderson is reportedly declaring for the draft (http://nba.si.com/2014/03/28/kyle-anderson-ucla-bruins-nba-draft/). This is hardly a surprise, though he is one of the guys Chad Forde had as "50-50" on his early entry list. Most folks project Anderson as a late teens-early 20s kind of pick and I really doubt he drops to the 2nd round. My Atlanta Hawks will be picking in that kind of range and I would love them to pick up Anderson. He has unique size and length for the PG position, even if his quickness and athleticism are lacking.

-Jason "by the way, I am not seeing Suliamon projected in either the 2014 or 2015 mocks I have looked at recently" Evans

and there's a report out that his teammate, Zach Levine, will join him in the draft...

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/28/report-ucla-guard-zach-lavine-to-enter-2014-nba-draft/

[tommy]

To get this thread back on topic...

UCLA's Kyle Anderson is reportedly declaring for the draft (http://nba.si.com/2014/03/28/kyle-anderson-ucla-bruins-nba-draft/). This is hardly a surprise, though he is one of the guys Chad Forde had as "50-50" on his early entry list. Most folks project Anderson as a late teens-early 20s kind of pick and I really doubt he drops to the 2nd round. My Atlanta Hawks will be picking in that kind of range and I would love them to pick up Anderson. He has unique size and length for the PG position, even if his quickness and athleticism are lacking.

-Jason "by the way, I am not seeing Suliamon projected in either the 2014 or 2015 mocks I have looked at recently" Evans

I don't think there's much "reportedly" about it. Months ago Anderson's dad came out and said this was Kyle's last year, and he's been repeating it ever since.

He's the most difficult player to project into the NBA. I love his game, primarily how well he sees the game and can get to a spot despite being the slowest, least athletic guy out there. He's just so smart and so crafty. But seriously, how is he going to defend in the league? I don't know, but I'll definitely be rooting for him.

[Reilly]

Maybe they want to stick around to learn to read. It is an upper level course at unc.

When they finally get "it" however, it's heart-warming. The way they bend their 6'8" bodies down to the plastic tub of books, grab one and then scamper over to the cozy recliner and climb up in it, and read all by themselves -- it's just really neat.

[DevilYouKnow]

I am not so sure this is true. Brandon Wright? Kendall Marshall? Both guys should have stayed. That said, the usual rule of thumb is to leave if you are a lottery pick. McAdoo may have had a shot - but he would have struggled in the NBA. Paige is borderline this year- particularly with this year's draft. Parker and Irving are outliers- top 3 picks. Rivers probably should have stayed but maybe K was not too sad to see him leave.

Depends on if you mean someone should/shouldn't go based on basketball readiness or the almighty dollar. I'd argue JMM may not have been as basketball ready after his freshman year, but he certainly lost a lot of money by not declaring for the draft then.

[CDu]

I don't think there's much "reportedly" about it. Months ago Anderson's dad came out and said this was Kyle's last year, and he's been repeating it ever since.

He's the most difficult player to project into the NBA. I love his game, primarily how well he sees the game and can get to a spot despite being the slowest, least athletic guy out there. He's just so smart and so crafty. But seriously, how is he going to defend in the league? I don't know, but I'll definitely be rooting for him.

If he is legitimately 6'9" with a 7'3" wingspan (as was reported last night pre-game), I think he makes for a very interesting PF on defense/ballhandler on offense. I'm picturing a post-HIV Magic Johnson type of player.

I don't think he can defend PG, SG, or SF, but if he adds a little muscle I could see him defending PF adequately enough to make him a matchup nightmare on the other end.

Of course, if he's really 6'7" with a 6'11" wingspan, the PF thing probably goes out the window.

[nmduke2001]

I don't think there's much "reportedly" about it. Months ago Anderson's dad came out and said this was Kyle's last year, and he's been repeating it ever since.

He's the most difficult player to project into the NBA. I love his game, primarily how well he sees the game and can get to a spot despite being the slowest, least athletic guy out there. He's just so smart and so crafty. But seriously, how is he going to defend in the league? I don't know, but I'll definitely be rooting for him.

Anderson was my favorite player coming out of that high school class. I really wanted Duke to go after him hard but we didn't.

I think Kyle will have an NBA game much like Tony Kukoc. Not the most gifted athlete, but really crafty and able to impact the game in many different ways.

[johnb]

When they finally get "it" however, it's heart-warming. The way they bend their 6'8" bodies down to the plastic tub of books, grab one and then scamper over to the cozy recliner and climb up in it, and read all by themselves -- it's just really neat.

I don't have a problem with the Carolina players, most of whom are fine academically.

I have much less patience with the presumably literate faculty and administration that allowed their circus act to continue.

But back to going pro early...

[SoCalDukeFan]

you can not combine Zach Levine and Kyle Anderson.

Super athlete and super bball IQ.

Both are leaving UCLA. It is pretty well understood that Tony Parker hates school, not sure what he is going to do.

This is a bad time of year. Duke is not playing bball and most news is early entry stuff. Some recruiting news.

SoCal

[ChicagoCrazy84]

you can not combine Zach Levine and Kyle Anderson.

Super athlete and super bball IQ.

Both are leaving UCLA. It is pretty well understood that Tony Parker hates school, not sure what he is going to do.

This is a bad time of year. Duke is not playing bball and most news is early entry stuff. Some recruiting news.

SoCal


Is Tony Parker NBA ready? He may hate school but it'd be wise of him to continue to get better and get in better shape. Next year could be good for him with Kyle and Zach leaving.

[CDu]

Is Tony Parker NBA ready? He may hate school but it'd be wise of him to continue to get better and get in better shape. Next year could be good for him with Kyle and Zach leaving.

With the Wear twins graduating and Anderson leaving, there should be a lot of frontcourt minutes available. UCLA does have a couple of PF and a C coming in next year, but Parker should probably become a starter.

He was just okay this year (17.2 mpg, 6.9 ppg, 4.4 rpg). But maybe next year he'll be a bigger presence for them.

[bluenorth]

Is Tony Parker NBA ready? He may hate school but it'd be wise of him to continue to get better and get in better shape. Next year could be good for him with Kyle and Zach leaving.

You never know what's going on behind the scenes. Years ago I spoke with a Big East coach, asking why in the world his young but huge post player declared for the draft. It turned out that he too "hated school", so much so that there was no way the university would allow him to return. A little matter of having to show up to class now and then, and maybe pass a test once in a while.

[Jbsherr DUKE!]

I don't know about NBA ready I'm still waiting on his recruitment announcement to finish!!:p

[BD80]

You never know what's going on behind the scenes. Years ago I spoke with a Big East coach, asking why in the world his young but huge post player declared for the draft. It turned out that he too "hated school", so much so that there was no way the university would allow him to return. A little matter of having to show up to class now and then, and maybe pass a test once in a while.

Guy should have gone to unc, great place to go if you don't like going to class ... or taking tests ...

[dukelifer]

Whether or not K was sad to see him leave, Rivers, as the son of an NBA coach, presumably had access to very good information and advice in making his decision. Under those circumstances, K might worry less about whether Rivers was making a poor or ill-informed decision than with other players. Although this may not have been your intention, your comment could be interpreted to suggest that K advised Rivers to leave, or didn't discourage him from leaving, even though Rivers wasn't ready. I don't think we have any basis on which to make that assumption. And apologies in advance if I am reading too much into your post.

The original intent of my post was that Roy did not have some magical persuasive ability to keep players from going pro. In some cases it makes sense in others it does not. Wright and Marshall were examples of players he was not able to persuade. As for Wright- I think he has been somewhat of a disappointment based on the potential on which he was drafted. There is no question that the economics is such that lottery pick players should leave early. But the payoff is in the second contract. Wright was expected to be better and there are many other examples of folks whose potential was better than their play. As for Rivers- there is no question that he had the data he needed to guide his decision. Not sure it was the best decision but time will tell. The point about K was simply to indicate - as many of us have felt- that Austin may not have been the best teammate or completely connected to team.

[FerryFor50]

Anderson was my favorite player coming out of that high school class. I really wanted Duke to go after him hard but we didn't.

I think Kyle will have an NBA game much like Tony Kukoc. Not the most gifted athlete, but really crafty and able to impact the game in many different ways.

Difference is that Kukoc could shoot much better than Anderson.

Anderson reminds me of a taller Andre Miller.

[nmduke2001]

LaQuinton Ross is officially gone per OSU

[Henderson]

I don't think there's much "reportedly" about it. Months ago Anderson's dad came out and said this was Kyle's last year, and he's been repeating it ever since.

Now why would a kid's dad be saying that for months when the kid himself hasn't? After the Shabazz story, I'm getting depressed about parental motivations. It hadn't occurred to me until I read the Shabazz story, but a parent's credit worthiness goes WAY up if his or her son is about to cash in. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, just getting that little bit of hair standing up on the back of my neck, ya know?

[tommy]

LaQuinton Ross is officially gone per OSU

His D ain't much, but that kid has a really smooth and creative offensive game, and I think he's going to be able to score plenty in the NBA. If I've got a mid-to-late first round pick, and my team needs scoring punch, I'm looking real hard at Ross.

[NSDukeFan]

His D ain't much, but that kid has a really smooth and creative offensive game, and I think he's going to be able to score plenty in the NBA. If I've got a mid-to-late first round pick, and my team needs scoring punch, I'm looking real hard at Ross.

You could get a mid-to-late first round pick in the DBR draft if you play your cards right.

[devildeac]

With the Wear twins graduating and Anderson leaving, there should be a lot of frontcourt minutes available. UCLA does have a couple of PF and a C coming in next year, but Parker should probably become a starter.

He was just okay this year (17.2 mpg, 6.9 ppg, 4.4 rpg). But maybe next year he'll be a bigger presence for them.

He's listed at 6-9, 255 pounds. How much bigger presence can he be?;):rolleyes:

[NSDukeFan]

...
Also, and not apropos of your post, why some posters treat the mere mention of Austin Rivers as an imperative to slag him is beyond me.


Yea, not sure why that is, either.

I mean, he wasn't my favorite Duke player in the world, but he DID hit that shot over Tyler Zeller to beat UNC. That alone vindicates him for any other perceived transgressions...
Thanks for saying that.
I remember being so excited about Austin's commitment to Duke. Then he came in, led the team in scoring, showed an amazing first step and ability to get a shot with a good look at any time, was a leading player on a team that went undefeated on the road in the ACC?, hit one of the most memorable shots in Duke history to beat UNC, defended as well as anyone on the team in the backcourt (not saying that much, but still) as a freshman, didn't sulk, seemed to try his best to improve, seemed to try to be a student at Duke, gave his best effort, played on a team that won 27ish games, got a #2 seed, but got upset in the tournament when one of the team's best players was injured and he didn't play nearly as well as CJ McCollum. He also was the first Duke freshman to be first team all-ACC and had some all-American recognition. He is not my favorite Duke player because he was only around one year, but I was very happy he went to Duke, greatly enjoyed watching him play the year that he did, would have loved to have seen him come back for another and improve and am rooting hard for him to have success in the NBA, which I believe he will.
Early tournament losses are painful, but is that a reason to denigrate Duke's best players on those teams for years to come? /I am an Austin Rivers fan-thread hijack rant

[Gthoma2a]

Randle is almost certainly gone, and this is nothing to debate or inform on that, but he should move up from his tournament effort. He is coming through, when it counts. He is doing EVERYTHING for the team. He has gotten assists and 3 double-doubles (rebounds and points) in a row in the tournament.

One other thing, it proves that youth is no excuse for a team not having leadership. People had been blaming this season on that and claiming that it would come up again, simply because we have another young team next year. The one-and-done model isn't the problem. The problem is a team with players waiting for someone else to step up with confidence. Guys have to be ready mentally and physically. Maturity and age don't have to go together.

[Bluedog]

One other thing, it proves that youth is no excuse for a team not having leadership... Guys have to be ready mentally and physically. Maturity and age don't have to go together.

Agree, but if Wichita State made that last three, people would be talking about Kentucky very differently than they are right now despite there being basically no difference in Kentucky's team. People tend to (and we all do) make fairly large conclusions based on a couple NCAA games because these are the games we really care about, but sometimes teams just get a bit lucky or unlucky in a one and done format... There is definitely some randomness to it - sometimes the randomness comes down on your side and sometimes it doesn't. Obviously, being a really good team can up your odds tremendously too.

[MaxAMillion]

Randle is almost certainly gone, and this is nothing to debate or inform on that, but he should move up from his tournament effort. He is coming through, when it counts. He is doing EVERYTHING for the team. He has gotten assists and 3 double-doubles (rebounds and points) in a row in the tournament.

One other thing, it proves that youth is no excuse for a team not having leadership. People had been blaming this season on that and claiming that it would come up again, simply because we have another young team next year. The one-and-done model isn't the problem. The problem is a team with players waiting for someone else to step up with confidence. Guys have to be ready mentally and physically. Maturity and age don't have to go together.

I completely disagree. UK had 10 losses on the year. Calipari talked about how he was looking for leadership during the season. UK has loads of talent,but it didn't show itself until they played UF in the SEC final. That game was win their confidence and leadership started to come together. If you have freshmen as your main contributors,you will always have struggles with leadership.

[Gthoma2a]

I completely disagree. UK had 10 losses on the year. Calipari talked about how he was looking for leadership during the season. UK has loads of talent,but it didn't show itself until they played UF in the SEC final. That game was win their confidence and leadership started to come together. If you have freshmen as your main contributors,you will always have struggles with leadership.

They found it when it counted. Remember the press conference with K, where he talked about the years he wasn't sure they could win it all going into the tournament? He said that he didn't go in thinking they COULDN'T win, but he knew that they would have to DISCOVER how to win. That is what Kentucky did. Nobody cares about when you put it all together, as long as you put it all together (they didn't win a conference championship, but they are still playing, and at their highest level of the season). They look to have put it together. They have gotten as far as our team that K felt could have won it all last year. They were down in this game and didn't let the wheels fall off.

We've all seen juniors and seniors go out with a whimper, but we have also seen freshmen become leaders. It is a complete cop out to blame this season on youth, when younger teams than us perform well almost, if not, every year. It is about the mentality of the players, not the age of the player.

[tommy]

Randle is almost certainly gone, and this is nothing to debate or inform on that, but he should move up from his tournament effort. He is coming through, when it counts. He is doing EVERYTHING for the team. He has gotten assists and 3 double-doubles (rebounds and points) in a row in the tournament.

One other thing, it proves that youth is no excuse for a team not having leadership. People had been blaming this season on that and claiming that it would come up again, simply because we have another young team next year.

Well, not just "people." Coach K himself.

[Saratoga2]

Randle is almost certainly gone, and this is nothing to debate or inform on that, but he should move up from his tournament effort. He is coming through, when it counts. He is doing EVERYTHING for the team. He has gotten assists and 3 double-doubles (rebounds and points) in a row in the tournament.

One other thing, it proves that youth is no excuse for a team not having leadership. People had been blaming this season on that and claiming that it would come up again, simply because we have another young team next year. The one-and-done model isn't the problem. The problem is a team with players waiting for someone else to step up with confidence. Guys have to be ready mentally and physically. Maturity and age don't have to go together.

Kentucky is absolutely loaded with talented players who are also on average larger than the teams they play. They won last night because Louisville was terrible from the foul line although you would have to say UK played well. On the other hand, UVA nearly won last night with a more experienced team that also played very well and didn't have the talent level that UK has. The point being that different combinations can be successful when they play together as a team.

Look at UCONN, the ones we love to hate. They have two small but very quick and talented guards (both can play PG and both can shoot) and one very versatile big man and they took down a very good Iowa St team that also shot poorly from the free throw line. Again, a completely different team format that has been very successful.

We too were loaded with talented players but for some reasons that have been discussed at length here, we were unable to produce results to meet even reduced expectations. We all hope for better next year.

[MCFinARL]

Kentucky is absolutely loaded with talented players who are also on average larger than the teams they play. They won last night because Louisville was terrible from the foul line although you would have to say UK played well. On the other hand, UVA nearly won last night with a more experienced team that also played very well and didn't have the talent level that UK has. The point being that different combinations can be successful when they play together as a team.



I think these are the magic words. "Young" is one reason why players might not be able to play together as a team consistently, but it's not the only reason, and it's not the case that every young team fails to do this. It likely was a contributing factor for the particular players on this year's Duke team, because of the odd mix of young (or in Hood's case, not so young, but playing his first season at Duke), very talented players and older players who were less talented and getting fewer minutes but still held earned leadership roles.

Youth is an issue here--it took Kentucky an entire season to figure out how to play as a team, and they still had rough patches early in the game. But maybe it was actually better for them that all of the players are young, so there isn't the same dichotomy between off-court and on-court leadership.

Meanwhile, we are way off topic, so to get back on--do we think any of this year's Kentucky frosh will stay in school another year?

[CDu]

I think these are the magic words. "Young" is one reason why players might not be able to play together as a team consistently, but it's not the only reason, and it's not the case that every young team fails to do this. It likely was a contributing factor for the particular players on this year's Duke team, because of the odd mix of young (or in Hood's case, not so young, but playing his first season at Duke), very talented players and older players who were less talented and getting fewer minutes but still held earned leadership roles.

Youth is an issue here--it took Kentucky an entire season to figure out how to play as a team, and they still had rough patches early in the game. But maybe it was actually better for them that all of the players are young, so there isn't the same dichotomy between off-court and on-court leadership.

Meanwhile, we are way off topic, so to get back on--do we think any of this year's Kentucky frosh will stay in school another year?

ANY? There are 6 or 7 freshman on UK. There will be some returnees. Randle is gone, but after that it is anybody's guess. The Harrisons and Young each could go or could stay. Johnson should stay but could go. Anybody else in that class should stay.

[porkpa]

You've got to give the devil his due. In my opinion Calipari has done a wondrous job of getting a group of young kids, everyone of them used to being the star, to play together unselfishly. I don't like the guy at all. But he has done a terrific job of getting these kids to play together as a team.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You've got to give the devil his due. In my opinion Calipari has done a wondrous job of getting a group of young kids, everyone of them used to being the star, to play together unselfishly. I don't like the guy at all. But he has done a terrific job of getting these kids to play together as a team.

This is way off topic, but I have to agree. I dislike him and his methods, but he's doing a heckuva job this year.

[jv001]

One thing that jumped out at me watching Louisvile-Kentucky and Mich. State-Virginia was how most of the players had good lateral quickness. They played their heart out on defense. I wasn't going to watch any more of the NCAAT after Duke's loss, but what the heck, I love college basketball. GoDuke!

[BD80]

ANY? There are 6 or 7 freshman on UK. There will be some returnees. Randle is gone, but after that it is anybody's guess. The Harrisons and Young each could go or could stay. Johnson should stay but could go. Anybody else in that class should stay.

I love that the Harrisons are having a great tournament, it will boost their draft stock some, and restore their self-images as OADs. I suspect they will go, if no other reason than ego.

[JasonEvans]

I love that the Harrisons are having a great tournament, it will boost their draft stock some, and restore their self-images as OADs. I suspect they will go, if no other reason than ego.

Yup and the general consensus is that James Young is extremely likely to leave as well. I'd put Young and Randle at 90%+ to declare. The Harrisons are probably more like 60-70% to go and I suspect Cauley-Stein is about the same, maybe a little less. I'd say that Johnson and Poythress are only about a 25 or 30% chance of declaring.

-Jason "these odds increase with every win by Kentucky" Evans

[richardjackson199]

Yup and the general consensus is that James Young is extremely likely to leave as well. I'd put Young and Randle at 90%+ to declare. The Harrisons are probably more like 60-70% to go and I suspect Cauley-Stein is about the same, maybe a little less. I'd say that Johnson and Poythress are only about a 25 or 30% chance of declaring.

-Jason "these odds increase with every win by Kentucky" Evans

Absolutely. These guys are gone. Remember most all of these players chose Kentucky with the sole intention of getting to the NBA asap. James Young, Randle, the Harrisons, and Cauley Stein are gone and will be in this year's draft. Calipari will celebrate it as another year he got at least 5 guys in the first round, and it's likely to help him recruiting future talent like Giles. Kentucky has too much for Michigan inside, and the Cats guards are too big and too good. Kentucky is also too deep as they showed with no dropoff inside after losing Cauley-Stein. Expect Kentucky to beat Michigan and cover the 2 point spread. That puts Kentucky in the Final 4, and regardless of what happens there these guys are all going pro this year. So I'd say Dakari Johnson and Poythress are also at least 50% likely to come out this year.

I really wish Wichita State had drained that last 3. I hate Calipari's approach of total mockery of the first words in the oxymorons "student athlete" and "college basketball". But this shows the one and done recruiting approach can be extremely successful. Kentucky will make the Final 4 coming out of the NCAA's toughest bracket and with the toughest road to the championship of any team in the field. They have to be considered just as likely to win it all as Florida, Michigan State, and Arizona. I hope I'm wrong and that Michigan beats them tomorrow. I really want to be wrong. Worst case scenario for this year's NCAA is Calipari regaining his stranglehold first choice on all the nation's top elite recruits. The 20 and 2 rule would make Kentucky even more dominant if he regains a monopoly on this talent.

Bottom line - Go Wolverines!

[MCFinARL]

ANY? There are 6 or 7 freshman on UK. There will be some returnees. Randle is gone, but after that it is anybody's guess. The Harrisons and Young each could go or could stay. Johnson should stay but could go. Anybody else in that class should stay.

Other commenters here have said much of what I would have in reply, but I just want to note I wasn't thinking about who SHOULD stay, only who WOULD stay. And, yes, I may have exaggerated a bit for effect.

[CDu]

Other commenters here have said much of what I would have in reply, but I just want to note I wasn't thinking about who SHOULD stay, only who WOULD stay. And, yes, I may have exaggerated a bit for effect.

I could see any of the 5 freshmen that play significant minutes going pro, along with sophomore Cauley-Stein. Sophomore Poythress had a very down year, but you never know. The other freshman (or freshmen?) will stay.

[NSDukeFan]

This is way off topic, but I have to agree. I dislike him and his methods, but he's doing a heckuva job this year.

They are having a great tournament, but it is it a great job when it takes a couple of upsets for one of the greatest recruiting class ever to get to the elite 8?

[MCFinARL]

The 20 and 2 rule would make Kentucky even more dominant if he regains a monopoly on this talent.

Bottom line - Go Wolverines!

Maybe, but there will then be the added challenge of making them do enough schoolwork to remain eligible for two years. While some of Calipari's recent players have done this, some (like John Wall) even though they were definitely planning to leave after a single year, it's my impression that there have been a few exceptions.

[CoachJ10]

One thing that jumped out at me watching Louisvile-Kentucky and Mich. State-Virginia was how most of the players had good lateral quickness. They played their heart out on defense. I wasn't going to watch any more of the NCAAT after Duke's loss, but what the heck, I love college basketball. GoDuke!

The other common variable I have noticed on some of the more successful teams is strength, and more specifically, strength in their perimeter players. In the current state of the game, which is dominated by pick and rolls and running thru and off screens...being strong is a huge key to success. To be honest, it is a quality that we have not had in our guards lately to our detriment. Seems like such a simple element...but the eye test of watching what it takes to win these days, proves its significance. Improving on that should be a focus for us.

[NSDukeFan]

The other common variable I have noticed on some of the more successful teams is strength, and more specifically, strength in their perimeter players. In the current state of the game, which is dominated by pick and rolls and running thru and off screens...being strong is a huge key to success. To be honest, it is a quality that we have not had in our guards lately to our detriment. Seems like such a simple element...but the eye test of watching what it takes to win these days, proves its significance. Improving on that should be a focus for us.

So much for the new emphasis on perimeter hand checking/ holding.

[Troublemaker]

Maybe, but there will then be the added challenge of making them do enough schoolwork to remain eligible for two years. While some of Calipari's recent players have done this, some (like John Wall) even though they were definitely planning to leave after a single year, it's my impression that there have been a few exceptions.

Maybe the NBA can make the D-league a more attractive option, too. I would think for some kids, 2 years of getting paid a salary beats 2 years of school. (Hopefully no Duke recruit feels that way, though!)

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Maybe the NBA can make the D-league a more attractive option, too. I would think for some kids, 2 years of getting paid a salary beats 2 years of school. (Hopefully no Duke recruit feels that way, though!)
D-league pay is just horrendous. Who wants to earn $20K and eat chicken nuggets?

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2013/5/3/4296092/examining-the-low-pay-of-nba-d-league-players

[JNort]

D-league pay is just horrendous. Who wants to earn $20K and eat chicken nuggets?

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2013/5/3/4296092/examining-the-low-pay-of-nba-d-league-players

Someone who would rather make money, have free time, and travel as opposed to going to classes, studying, doing homework for no pay and no real gain what so ever. If you are a major talents who wants to go straight to the nba but cant why not go to the d league instead as opposed to wasting time in school?

[CameronBornAndBred]

D-league pay is just horrendous. Who wants to earn $20K and eat chicken nuggets?

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2013/5/3/4296092/examining-the-low-pay-of-nba-d-league-players
That was the point of troublemaker's statement...
"Maybe the NBA can make the D-league a more attractive option, too"

[FerryFor50]

D-league pay is just horrendous. Who wants to earn $20K and eat chicken nuggets?

http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2013/5/3/4296092/examining-the-low-pay-of-nba-d-league-players

Better than working at McDonald's and eating chicken nuggets...

[FerryFor50]

Better than working at McDonald's and eating chicken nuggets...

Also, better than playing in college for no pay and the same benefits:


In addition to the modest salary, there are other varied perks. The D-League teams do in fact pay for player housing, provide certain benefits, and grant each of their players a $40 per-diem for food, etc.

[brevity]

Better than working at McDonald's and eating chicken nuggets...

"Speak for yourself." -- Kennedy Meeks, 2018

[ICP]

Someone who would rather make money, have free time, and travel as opposed to going to classes, studying, doing homework for no pay and no real gain what so ever. If you are a major talents who wants to go straight to the nba but cant why not go to the d league instead as opposed to wasting time in school?

I think the kind of life style for the top recruits at a major program far surpases the 20-30k/yr they would get in the D-league. Take our guys, for example: they get to travel on private jets, stay at five star hotels, have a world class training and conditioning facility and individual trainers, mingle with NBA stars in trips like the one they did on New York, be on national TV once or twice a week, and get coached by a legend. That doesn't even include the fun they have on campus with the other Duke undergrads at parties and the like. I hardly see how you'd find this "no gain whatsoever", even leaving aside the value of the education itself. Let's be realistic here, most of these guys benefit from once-in-a-lifetime experiences as Duke or KY basketball players, for many of them probably the most amazing experiences of their lives in some way, that to me beats the hell out of playing D-league and making a poverty-level income...

[JNort]

I think the kind of life style for the top recruits at a major program far surpases the 20-30k/yr they would get in the D-league. Take our guys, for example: they get to travel on private jets, stay at five star hotels, have a world class training and conditioning facility and individual trainers, mingle with NBA stars in trips like the one they did on New York, be on national TV once or twice a week, and get coached by a legend. That doesn't even include the fun they have on campus with the other Duke undergrads at parties and the like. I hardly see how you'd find this "no gain whatsoever", even leaving aside the value of the education itself. Let's be realistic here, most of these guys benefit from once-in-a-lifetime experiences as Duke or KY basketball players, for many of them probably the most amazing experiences of their lives in some way, that to me beats the hell out of playing D-league and making a poverty-level income...


Could just be me but if I knew I was going number one I'd easily take Dleague. You get more time to train, more free time, spending money and money to help my family if they need it. Not to mention fewer responsibilities

[lotusland]

Could just be me but if I knew I was going number one I'd easily take Dleague. You get more time to train, more free time, spending money and money to help my family if they need it. Not to mention fewer responsibilities

Pretty sure if someone in your circle of trust were consulting with an agent or shoe company they would advise a year at a high profile college program over the D league. Besides exposure, what kind of healthcare does Kyrie get if he injures his foot in the D league? I don't know the answer but I suspect Duke was a better option. The fact that almost no one chooses the D league speaks volumes. Apparently being "exploited" for a year is way better.

[arnie]

Could just be me but if I knew I was going number one I'd easily take Dleague. You get more time to train, more free time, spending money and money to help my family if they need it. Not to mention fewer responsibilities

Yes, I think it's just you. Money to help my family - on a D league salary? Where does that come from?

[BD80]

Yes, I think it's just you. Money to help my family - on a D league salary? Where does that come from?

Agent, shoe company ...

[arnie]

Agent, shoe company ...

Ok - I didn't read the first post clearly, we're talking about the No 1 draft pick. I guess if family really hurting, that may make sense. Of course the big money's coming soon anyway.

[moonpie23]

if all the OAD's from the last few years were IN the D-league, it would be a tremendous draw. More profit makes it possible to pay larger salaries (say 100K for some of the big names). Kids would learn to handle "mo money" without it being such a shock.

Think of all the OADs in the past 2 years playing against each other. I'd go see that and PAY.....

[lotusland]

Not me and not many others imo. Take the most generous estimate of the OAD talent in college this year and spread them over how ever many teams are in the D league and you still have a lot of really bad basketball especially considering that most OAD is based on potential. Is a Wiggins dunk really worth going to a game to see? It will probably be on Sportscenter. Does anyone else remember the Continental b-ball league? Horrible basketball.

[BD80]

... Does anyone else remember the Continental b-ball league? Horrible basketball.

Was it worse than this year's 76rs?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2014/3/29/5562872/aaron-gordon-2014-nba-draft

Sure seems like a mistake if he does. Dash for cash I guess.

[MCFinARL]

They are having a great tournament, but it is it a great job when it takes a couple of upsets for one of the greatest recruiting class ever to get to the elite 8?

Perhaps our expectations for Calipari's actual coaching are so low that the signs of competence he has shown this year (and, to be fair, he has shown clear signs of competence) seem like tremendous accomplishments.

[freshmanjs]

Perhaps our expectations for Calipari's actual coaching are so low that the signs of competence he has shown this year (and, to be fair, he has shown clear signs of competence) seem like tremendous accomplishments.

i can't imagine why anyone would have low expectations for Cal's coaching. he's long proven to be an excellent coach (ethical issues and vacated wins aside for a moment).

His recent performance:

2014 - at least Elite 8
2013 - NIT
2012 - NCAA Champs
2011 - Final 4
2010 - Elite 8
2009 - Sw16
2008 - Final 2
2007 - Elite 8
2006 - Elite 8

I mean come on. put dislike for him aside for a second. That performance is absolutely excellent.

[GGLC]

Much better than our recent performance for sure, and I mean that not as a slight on K but as grudging admiration for what that slimeball has been able to do.

[CR9]

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball/2014/3/29/5562872/aaron-gordon-2014-nba-draft

Sure seems like a mistake if he does. Dash for cash I guess.

He'll be a nothing player in the NBA if he leaves right now. Has zero strings to his bow, as they say.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Perhaps our expectations for Calipari's actual coaching are so low that the signs of competence he has shown this year (and, to be fair, he has shown clear signs of competence) seem like tremendous accomplishments.

Cal figured out that most of the top players plan on being OAD. They are going to college because its the best place for them for one year before going on to the NBA. He has a system that lets players play successfully without taking years to really learn. Players like it.

I don't like the seeming disregard for education, but why worry about that when the players are only there for a year anyway?

BTW, a friend of mine who is a KY fan says the players play well because they are good players and Cal has nothing to do with it. I think he deserves credit for letting them play their game.

SoCal

[JNort]

He'll be a nothing player in the NBA if he leaves right now. Has zero strings to his bow, as they say.

Top 10 pick for sure and potentially top 5 depending on the team. Supreme athlete and has been compared to Blake Griffen but a more gifted offensively at this point in both their careers

[CR9]

Top 10 pick for sure and potentially top 5 depending on the team. Supreme athlete and has been compared to Blake Griffen but a more gifted offensively at this point in both their careers

I'm not doubting his draft position or his athleticism. But he can't shoot, has no post game and is a tweener with his size. He's what, 2 inches shorter than Blake Griffin? I don't know. I'm not saying he won't develop into a terrific player. He can handle the ball and occasionally step out but he's the rawest of the Freshman for sure. Another year in college wouldn't hurt.

[Des Esseintes]

i can't imagine why anyone would have low expectations for Cal's coaching. he's long proven to be an excellent coach (ethical issues and vacated wins aside for a moment).

His recent performance:

2014 - at least Elite 8
2013 - NIT
2012 - NCAA Champs
2011 - Final 4
2010 - Elite 8
2009 - Sw16
2008 - Final 2
2007 - Elite 8
2006 - Elite 8

I mean come on. put dislike for him aside for a second. That performance is absolutely excellent.
Agreed. People are fooling themselves if they think the guy just rolls the basketballs onto the court and lets talent do its thing. We don't have to like Calipari, but we need to acknowledge he's an excellent coach. Anything less is childish ostrich-head-in-the-sandism.

[brevity]

We don't have to like Calipari, but we need to acknowledge he's an excellent coach. Anything less is childish ostrich-head-in-the-sandism.

Fun fact: "Ostrich-head-in-the-sandism" is how Calipari describes his personal policy of plausible deniability.

[Double DD]

Top 10 pick for sure and potentially top 5 depending on the team. Supreme athlete and has been compared to Blake Griffen but a more gifted offensively at this point in both their careers

Did you mean to say defensively, because Griffin was much more talented offensively. Gordon shot 42% from the free throw line and 27% on 2-pt jumpers. Andre Drummond's presence is the only thing that would prevent Gordon from being the worst shooter in the NBA next year.

[MCFinARL]

Cal figured out that most of the top players plan on being OAD. They are going to college because its the best place for them for one year before going on to the NBA. He has a system that lets players play successfully without taking years to really learn. Players like it.

I don't like the seeming disregard for education, but why worry about that when the players are only there for a year anyway?

BTW, a friend of mine who is a KY fan says the players play well because they are good players and Cal has nothing to do with it. I think he deserves credit for letting them play their game.

SoCal

Yes, I actually agree that Cal has devised a system that makes a lot of sense under the current rules (whether or not I like it), and it obviously works, overall, for his program, despite the occasional off year like last year. If measured in terms of overall program results, he would have to be very high on the list of successful coaches since he has been at Kentucky. (I don't count successful results that were vacated at other schools, whether or not anyone has been able to connect the violations directly to Calipari.)

I guess my point about coaching was more toward his effectiveness in teaching his players how to play as a team, in which he has had mixed success. The Wall-Cousins team, as good as their overall results were, had some issues and arguably should have done even better than they did, given their talent level (obviously something that could be said about many teams from many schools, including Duke). The Davis team was obviously a big success, though the exceptional ability and maturity of Anthony Davis had a lot to do with that, I think. Last year's team, pretty much of a mess. This year's team, not so good until recently but really coming on strong when it counts--which suggests, as I acknowledged, that Calipari has likely done some good coaching this year.

And perhaps I misphrased my original comment--I didn't mean to suggest that Calipari has had no coaching success, but that many of us are eager to discount his ability because we don't like him or because we like to maintain the illusion (or delusion) of the student-athlete and his open embrace of making it as easy as possible for would-be one and dones transition from high school to the NBA rubs us the wrong way even though it is a smart strategy within the current rules.

[Henderson]

Back to the thread's topic.

Andrew Wiggins is declaring. Not a surprise. But what I find amusing is that he stated in interviews early in the season that his two goals for the year were: (a) Win a national championship; and (b) Be the first player selected in the NBA draft in 2014. He didn't mention any order, but I have my suspicions about his priorities.

Obviously the first goal is gone. The second seems unlikely.

I'd continue, but I've got a pan flashing on the stove.

[gurufrisbee]

Back to the thread's topic.

Andrew Wiggins is declaring. Not a surprise. But what I find amusing is that he stated in interviews early in the season that his two goals for the year were: (a) Win a national championship; and (b) Be the first player selected in the NBA draft in 2014. He didn't mention any order, but I have my suspicions about his priorities.

Obviously the first goal is gone. The second seems unlikely.

I'd continue, but I've got a pan flashing on the stove.

I like it. While the odds are incredibly slim, if we're going to believe there is any way Hood or Parker comes back it almost certainly will involve them being possible drafted lower this year because of more top of the draft talent competition this year. And Wiggins is that.

[freshmanjs]

I like it. While the odds are incredibly slim, if we're going to believe there is any way Hood or Parker comes back it almost certainly will involve them being possible drafted lower this year because of more top of the draft talent competition this year. And Wiggins is that.

no. actually, the opposite. if Jabari does come back it will NOT be because his draft status is too low.

[gurufrisbee]

no. actually, the opposite. if Jabari does come back it will NOT be because his draft status is too low.

Not alone. But if their draft status is percieved to be lower this year than it might be next year, it will absolutely be a factor for them.

[BD80]

I love that the Harrisons are having a great tournament, it will boost their draft stock some, and restore their self-images as OADs. I suspect they will go, if no other reason than ego.


Yup and the general consensus is that James Young is extremely likely to leave as well. I'd put Young and Randle at 90%+ to declare. The Harrisons are probably more like 60-70% to go and I suspect Cauley-Stein is about the same, maybe a little less. I'd say that Johnson and Poythress are only about a 25 or 30% chance of declaring.

-Jason "these odds increase with every win by Kentucky" Evans

Harrisons' draft stock "surging"

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/jeff-goodman/post?id=3541 insider article, but title says enough

[WillJ]

Canadian basketball has really exploded recently, and this year's NBA draft will reflect that. There may be three Canadian guys in the top 10: Wiggins, Ennis and Stauskas. But there are quite a few other good Canadian college players right now, including Melvin Ijim and Olivier Hanlan. And, of course, there are currently quite a few Canadians in the pros: Cory Joseph, Tristan Thompson, Anthony Bennett, Kelly Olynyk, Andrew Nicholson, and Robert Sacre. And, to paraphrase Bill Simmons, Steve Nash's corpse is still in the NBA and Myck Kabongo might make it some day.

This suggests to me that Canada might have the second best group of basketball players, after the US of course, but possibly passing Spain, France and Argentina. They'll be a serious medal contender in the 2016 Olympics.

[roywhite]

Here's a story on Wiggins' declaring

Andrew Wiggins declares for draft (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10704493/andrew-wiggins-draft-bound-1-season-kansas-jayhawks)


Wiggins announced his decision at a news conference at Allen Fieldhouse.

"This wasn't an easy decision for me," Wiggins said Monday. "College goes by so fast. I can see why people stay all four years."

The 6-foot-8 Wiggins led Kansas in scoring at 17.1 points per game and averaged 5.9 rebounds.

[Henderson]

Here's a story on Wiggins' declaring

Andrew Wiggins declares for draft (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10704493/andrew-wiggins-draft-bound-1-season-kansas-jayhawks)

He says it wasn't an easy decision for him? Oh come on. That seems pretty disingenuous given that he said before the season started that one of his two goals for the year was to be the first player selected in this year's NBA draft.

[IBleedBlue]

Canadian basketball has really exploded recently, and this year's NBA draft will reflect that. There may be three Canadian guys in the top 10: Wiggins, Ennis and Stauskas. But there are quite a few other good Canadian college players right now, including Melvin Ijim and Olivier Hanlan. And, of course, there are currently quite a few Canadians in the pros: Cory Joseph, Tristan Thompson, Anthony Bennett, Kelly Olynyk, Andrew Nicholson, and Robert Sacre. And, to paraphrase Bill Simmons, Steve Nash's corpse is still in the NBA and Myck Kabongo might make it some day.

This suggests to me that Canada might have the second best group of basketball players, after the US of course, but possibly passing Spain, France and Argentina. They'll be a serious medal contender in the 2016 Olympics.

You left out my fellow quebecois 'Laurent Rivard' who plays for Tommy Amaker and Harvard crimson. He was the one who shot New Mexico out of the tournament last year. Can shoot lights out from any where on the court when he is on.

[FerryFor50]

He says it wasn't an easy decision for him? Oh come on. That seems pretty disingenuous given that he said before the season started that one of his two goals for the year was to be the first player selected in this year's NBA draft.

Not necessarily disingenuous. Maybe he got to college and realized he was having a good time. Probably was harder to go after the KU early exit, too.

He seems like a pretty good kid. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Henderson]

Not necessarily disingenuous. Maybe he got to college and realized he was having a good time. Probably was harder to go after the KU early exit, too.

He seems like a pretty good kid. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

I agree that he seems like a pretty good kid, but there's no way he lost sleep thinking, "Gee, maybe I'll come back to enjoy the college experience."

[dukelifer]

Harrisons' draft stock "surging"

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/jeff-goodman/post?id=3541 insider article, but title says enough

No two players believe more that they are better than they really are. I expect they both go. If they win it all- which I expect they will- it is a sure thing.

[JasonEvans]

Not sure if we missed this the past 24 hours or so, but LSU's Johnny OByant III is coming out.

Meanwhile, all the talk from Lansing is that MSU's Gary Harris is leaning toward declaring for the draft as well. I saw that Izzo said he might advise Harris (http://www.chron.com/sports/article/Mich-State-s-Izzo-might-advise-Harris-to-enter-NBA-5367024.php)to make the leap. There is also talk that MSU's Brandon Dawson could turn pro too, though I think that is more of a longshot.

-Jason "anyone know a really good site that has all the early entry declarations listed and up to date?" Evans

[superdave]

-Jason "anyone know a really good site that has all the early entry declarations listed and up to date?" Evans

If you have Espn Insider, this is reliable: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/page/InOut-2014/2014-nba-draft-list

[sagegrouse]

If you have Espn Insider, this is reliable: http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/page/InOut-2014/2014-nba-draft-list

The scorecard there has 10 announced, nine with one foot in the draft (incl. Rodney), and 36 undecided, including (Jabari and Rasheed). Total names listed are 55.

Lessee... there are 30 first-round selections that result in guaranteed contracts. Plus, there are European players and, uh seniors: four of the five AP 1st teamers were seniors.

I would guess that not all of the 19 in the first two categories will make the first round.

Sage

[yancem]

Would it be possible for a someone to put a list that sticks at the top of each page like when a poll is conducted? That way we don't have to scroll through to figure out who's in or out.

[CDu]

The scorecard there has 10 announced, nine with one foot in the draft (incl. Rodney), and 36 undecided, including (Jabari and Rasheed). Total names listed are 55.

Lessee... there are 30 first-round selections that result in guaranteed contracts. Plus, there are European players and, uh seniors: four of the five AP 1st teamers were seniors.

I would guess that not all of the 19 in the first two categories will make the first round.

Sage

This is true almost every year. And it isn't going to change any time soon unless the NBA implements a different policy regarding the draft.

[Nosbleuatu]

This is true almost every year. And it isn't going to change any time soon unless the NBA implements a different policy regarding the draft.

I know there's a system in place for players to receive feedback from the NBA individually, but I would love to see something where each team submits a list of how they see the draft (maybe grouped into top 10, 11-20, etc.) that could be compiled and averaged by the league. Maybe they'd only look at the names submitted for consideration, then post an average draft list before kids have to make a final decision.

[CDu]

I know there's a system in place for players to receive feedback from the NBA individually, but I would love to see something where each team submits a list of how they see the draft (maybe grouped into top 10, 11-20, etc.) that could be compiled and averaged by the league. Maybe they'd only look at the names submitted for consideration, then post an average draft list before kids have to make a final decision.

The problem is that the NBA has no reason to do this. They benefit from the extra players entering the draft. So they have little reason to want do something to discourage players from entering.

And players are encouraged to seek out information. Most coaches at major programs have connections to the NBA and get candid feedback on roughly where teams might view a player. But there is always going to be some shuffling of that once players start doing individual team workouts/interviews. So even that candid assessment in early April can be inaccurate by the time the draft arrives in late June.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The problem is that the NBA has no reason to do this. They benefit from the extra players entering the draft. So they have little reason to want do something to discourage players from entering.

And players are encouraged to seek out information. Most coaches at major programs have connections to the NBA and get candid feedback on roughly where teams might view a player. But there is always going to be some shuffling of that once players start doing individual team workouts/interviews. So even that candid assessment in early April can be inaccurate by the time the draft arrives in late June.
Yup. And, some of those kids will be in denial of those reports listing them as anything other than first round picks, and go anyway. There are always a few that are convinced they will make some magical leap in June.

[CDu]

Yup. And, some of those kids will be in denial of those reports listing them as anything other than first round picks, and go anyway. There are always a few that are convinced they will make some magical leap in June.

Very true. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Or something like that.

[Gthoma2a]

Very true. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Or something like that.

Well, when you can look at last year and see that Anthony Bennett was somehow the number 1 pick, you start to think that anything is possible if the GM is drunk enough.

[MarkD83]

Well, when you can look at last year and see that Anthony Bennett was somehow the number 1 pick, you start to think that anything is possible if the GM is drunk enough.

This is exactly why the smart GMs in the NBA would love to have as many college kids declare for the draft as possible every year. There will be a GM who can't evaluate talent who will take someone they should not leaving better players available later in the draft.

BTW my observation is everyone evaluates college players based on offensive ability and not defense. You can find scores of good offensive players who are sitting at the end of NBA benches when a game is on the line. The good defensive players are on the court. It would be great if there was a way to rank the defensive ability of college players rather than just offensive abilities. I bet the best NBA GMs do that and know who to take in the draft based on defense not offense.

[tbyers11]

-Jason "anyone know a really good site that has all the early entry declarations listed and up to date?" Evans

Here is a list from Draft Express (http://www.draftexpress.com/2013-NBA-Draft-Early-Entry-List.php) that will be kept pretty up-to-date. It includes links when a player has declared he is staying or going. Jonathan Givony knows his stuff.

It does have Rodney Hood and TJ Warren listed as officially going although they haven't officially announced. We know they're both going though.

[sagegrouse]

Here is a list from Draft Express (http://www.draftexpress.com/2013-NBA-Draft-Early-Entry-List.php) that will be kept pretty up-to-date. It includes links when a player has declared he is staying or going. Jonathan Givony knows his stuff.

It does have Rodney Hood and TJ Warren listed as officially going although they haven't officially announced. We know they're both going though.

This list has 23 players, but seven are international, leaving 16 college undergrads.

[conmanlhughes]

Jabari brown at mizzou, that is. :o big guard that can shoot the 3, if what i am reading is right.

[BD80]

Jabari brown at mizzou, that is. :o big guard that can shoot the 3, if what i am reading is right.

Jabari heard that Jabari was a lock for the top 3

[Henderson]

The scorecard there has 10 announced, nine with one foot in the draft (incl. Rodney), and 36 undecided, including (Jabari and Rasheed). Total names listed are 55.

Lessee... there are 30 first-round selections that result in guaranteed contracts. Plus, there are European players and, uh seniors: four of the five AP 1st teamers were seniors.

I would guess that not all of the 19 in the first two categories will make the first round.

Sage

55? Wow, I wonder whose talking to numbers 30 through 55. There seems to be a wee bit of delusional thinking among some fellows. Or are they counting every underclassman who hasn't officially spoken on the subject? Like Nick Pagliuca, from whom I haven't heard an announcement yet one way or the other.

[CameronBornAndBred]

55? Wow, I wonder whose talking to numbers 30 through 55. There seems to be a wee bit of delusional thinking among some fellows. Or are they counting every underclassman who hasn't officially spoken on the subject? Like Nick Pagliuca, from whom I haven't heard an announcement yet one way or the other.
Since Rasheed's name is included, there has to be a bunch of names in there that nobody is talking about, other than some guys that are looking for names to pad their lists.

[bob blue devil]

before everyone goes hog wild piling onto some poor kid for pursuing his dream even though his draft prospects are weak, please keep in mind that college is not for everyone. maybe some of these kids would rather be playing anywhere - europe, nbadl, etc. - instead of for a school. in that situation why wouldn't you declare for the nba draft?

[Henderson]

before everyone goes hog wild piling onto some poor kid for pursuing his dream even though his draft prospects are weak, please keep in mind that college is not for everyone. maybe some of these kids would rather be playing anywhere - europe, nbadl, etc. - instead of for a school. in that situation why wouldn't you declare for the nba draft?

I think that logic applies to 75% of the board participants here (would like to play pro basketball rather than doing whatever they are doing), but realism gets the better of them.

Still, I see your point about kids doing what they can to pursue a dream, and I'm all for that. And CameronB&B may be right that many of these guys aren't giving it a thought, but rather being listed by others for whatever reason.

P.S. Speaking of entering the draft, is there anything official I need to do by way of communicating with the NBA regarding my willingness to be drafted? Or have I been eligible automatically and just snubbed for 33 years straight? I still have 4 years of college eligibility left, but I have attended college for at least a year and meet the NBA age requirement.

[MCFinARL]

I think that logic applies to 75% of the board participants here (would like to play pro basketball rather than doing whatever they are doing), but realism gets the better of them.

Still, I see your point about kids doing what they can to pursue a dream, and I'm all for that. And CameronB&B may be right that many of these guys aren't giving it a thought, but rather being listed by others for whatever reason.

P.S. Speaking of entering the draft, is there anything official I need to do by way of communicating with the NBA regarding my willingness to be drafted? Or have I been eligible automatically and just snubbed for 33 years straight? I still have 4 years of college eligibility left, but I have attended college for at least a year and meet the NBA age requirement.

Just hire an agent and have him/her take care of it.

[Henderson]

Jabari Brown of Mizzou has declared. That's two juniors from their team.

[bob blue devil]

I think that logic applies to 75% of the board participants here (would like to play pro basketball rather than doing whatever they are doing), but realism gets the better of them.

i guess i should've been explicit that i was referring to kids who will be able to play professional basketball at some level...:rolleyes: because someone not in the ncaa has anything to lose by declaring for the draft and everyone is super critical of them...

[dukelifer]

55? Wow, I wonder whose talking to numbers 30 through 55. There seems to be a wee bit of delusional thinking among some fellows. Or are they counting every underclassman who hasn't officially spoken on the subject? Like Nick Pagliuca, from whom I haven't heard an announcement yet one way or the other.

Not Nick? Okay, it's officially over.

[niveklaen]

Not Nick? Okay, it's officially over.

I think its highly likely that Nick ends up on the Celtic's payroll.

[MCFinARL]

I think its highly likely that Nick ends up on the Celtic's payroll.

Probably not as an early entry, though. :D

[Henderson]

Roscoe Smith, the UConn transfer who is finishing his junior year at UNLV, has declared for the draft. 6-8, 220 power forward who led the conference in rebounding but only averaged about 10 ppg. Chad Ford has him at #110 on the board and a "possible" second round pick. He's 22, so it's probably now or never if he wants to play professionally. NBA seems a stretch.

[COYS]

Roscoe Smith, the UConn transfer who is finishing his junior year at UNLV, has declared for the draft. 6-8, 220 power forward who led the conference in rebounding but only averaged about 10 ppg. Chad Ford has him at #110 on the board and a "possible" second round pick. He's 22, so it's probably now or never if he wants to play professionally. NBA seems a stretch.

Remember when Roscoe Smith was the guy who was gonna make all of us Duke fans feel so much better at missing out on Barnes? It's a funny world.

[Des Esseintes]

Remember when Roscoe Smith was the guy who was gonna make all of us Duke fans feel so much better at missing out on Barnes? It's a funny world.

I was thinking the same exact thing. A funny world, indeed.

[tommy]

Sorry if I missed it and this was posted elsewhere, but I saw that TJ Warren officially declared today for the draft.

[Bob Green]

How many Kentucky players will declare? I took a look at Draft Express and they have three going in the 1st Round: Julius Randle, Willie Cauley-Stein and James Young. NBADraft.net has those three and Andrew Harrison in the 1st Round plus Aaron Harrison in the 2nd Round. I believe all five will declare as I don't see the Harrison twins returning. Thoughts?

NBADraft.net also has Andre Dawkins going late in the 2nd Round. I hope they are correct as I would love to see Dawkins get a chance in the NBA.

[tommy]

How many Kentucky players will declare? I took a look at Draft Express and they have three going in the 1st Round: Julius Randle, Willie Cauley-Stein and James Young. NBADraft.net has those three and Andrew Harrison in the 1st Round plus Aaron Harrison in the 2nd Round. I believe all five will declare as I don't see the Harrison twins returning. Thoughts?

NBADraft.net also has Andre Dawkins going late in the 2nd Round. I hope they are correct as I would love to see Dawkins get a chance in the NBA.

Randle and Young are gone for sure. I agree with you that the Harrisons will go as well, but I'm not going to be surprised if Willie Cauley-Stein returns. If he does, and they have him plus Dakari Johnson plus Karl Towns coming in, that is some combination of 5-men, isn't it? Too bad that one of them will be a third stringer. ;)

[MCFinARL]

Randle and Young are gone for sure. I agree with you that the Harrisons will go as well, but I'm not going to be surprised if Willie Cauley-Stein returns. If he does, and they have him plus Dakari Johnson plus Karl Towns coming in, that is some combination of 5-men, isn't it? Too bad that one of them will be a third stringer. ;)

Yes, Cauley-Stein sounded like he was seriously considering staying in post-game interviews (http://www.kentucky.com/2014/04/07/3184258/ncaa-finals-notes-new-hall-of.html):
"You know, I love the school," he said. "I love being at Kentucky. I love the fan base. I love the community. I love the people there.

"Why not stay until they make you leave?"

Read more here: http://www.kentucky.com/2014/04/07/3184258/ncaa-finals-notes-new-hall-of.html#storylink=cpy

He made clear, though, that he was undecided and would have to talk to his family, etc.

[tommy]

Oklahoma State sophomore Marcus Smart has signed with the Wasserman Media Group, and guess who his agent is? Lee Melchionni. Way to go Lee!

[Troublemaker]

According to twitter, Embiid just announced that he's going.

Darn, I was hoping he'd stay so that Jabari wouldn't feel so by himself in making the decision to pass up a top 5 draft slot for one more college season.

Not that having company in such a decision should be a major factor on how Jabari decides, but maybe it would've helped just a wee bit.

[mr. synellinden]

Confirmed in this ESPN story (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10757074/joel-embiid-kansas-jayhawks-enter-nba-draft). What does that mean for Myles Turner, if anything?

[MCFinARL]

According to twitter, Embiid just announced that he's going.

Darn, I was hoping he'd stay so that Jabari wouldn't feel so by himself in making the decision to pass up a top 5 draft slot for one more college season.

Not that having company in such a decision should be a major factor on how Jabari decides, but maybe it would've helped just a wee bit.

Of course, if there is a chance Embiid would be drafted before Jabari (and based on various people's guesstimates there is), Embiid's staying in school could also have been an additional reason for Jabari to go.

[MCFinARL]

Confirmed in this ESPN story (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10757074/joel-embiid-kansas-jayhawks-enter-nba-draft). What does that mean for Myles Turner, if anything?

This guy from Rant Sports (http://www.rantsports.com/prep-sports/2014/04/07/uncommitted-center-myles-turner-should-make-decision-after-jordan-brand-classic/) thinks it sends Turner to Kansas--but I don't know if he has any credibility.

[UrinalCake]

This guy from Rant Sports (http://www.rantsports.com/prep-sports/2014/04/07/uncommitted-center-myles-turner-should-make-decision-after-jordan-brand-classic/) thinks it sends Turner to Kansas--but I don't know if he has any credibility.

Turner has said he wants to play the 4... and Kansas already has Cliff Alexander... and now no Embiid. So that doesn't make any sense to me.

[Kedsy]

Turner has said he wants to play the 4... and Kansas already has Cliff Alexander... and now no Embiid. So that doesn't make any sense to me.

Perry Ellis too, right?

[TexHawk]

Turner has said he wants to play the 4... and Kansas already has Cliff Alexander... and now no Embiid. So that doesn't make any sense to me.

Kansas on offense typically does not play a true 1-2-3-4-5 system. Of course, when true 5s are on the team, they are used that way (Aldrich, Embiid), but most of the time the big men are interchangeable in a modified hi-low. Think Morris (x2), Sasha Kaun, Wayne Simien, Darrel Arthur, Darnell Jackson. Jeff Withey and Thomas Robinson both played the "hi" about half of the time.

Alexander and Turner would fit together just fine, and since Cliff can't really shoot further than 8 feet out and Myles can, it could work swimmingly.

Perry Ellis isn't scaring anyone away.

[luvdahops]

Kansas on offense typically does not play a true 1-2-3-4-5 system. Of course, when true 5s are on the team, they are used that way (Aldrich, Embiid), but most of the time the big men are interchangeable in a modified hi-low. Think Morris (x2), Sasha Kaun, Wayne Simien, Darrel Arthur, Darnell Jackson. Jeff Withey and Thomas Robinson both played the "hi" about half of the time.

Alexander and Turner would fit together just fine, and since Cliff can't really shoot further than 8 feet out and Myles can, it could work swimmingly.

Perry Ellis isn't scaring anyone away.

I've seen Alexander play a lot, and he is almost exclusively a low-post player, especially on offense, whether you want to term him a 4 or a 5. So I would agree that if Turner has a face up game, they could definitely mesh well together.

[johnb]

If I'm Jabari and Milwaukee is getting the first pick and I think Embid goes first and I might be more likely to go to a team like Boston, Embid going pro might be an inducement.

As for Turner, his silence means all of the articles are merely conjecture...

[tommy]

Kansas on offense typically does not play a true 1-2-3-4-5 system. Of course, when true 5s are on the team, they are used that way (Aldrich, Embiid), but most of the time the big men are interchangeable in a modified hi-low. Think Morris (x2), Sasha Kaun, Wayne Simien, Darrel Arthur, Darnell Jackson. Jeff Withey and Thomas Robinson both played the "hi" about half of the time.

Alexander and Turner would fit together just fine, and since Cliff can't really shoot further than 8 feet out and Myles can, it could work swimmingly.

Perry Ellis isn't scaring anyone away.

I agree. Alexander is a low post guy all the way, and Turner is a hybrid 4-5 at this level. They'd fit together just fine, pretty much the same as Turner and Okafor would fit together.

For Duke, I think Embiid's decision makes it marginally, marginally more likely that Jabari comes back (but probably in reality zero impact on it) and it certainly makes it less likely that Turner will be coming to Durham.

[gocanes0506]

Sports center just said Randle is leaving

[UrinalCake]

Sports center just said Randle is leaving

No surprise there. It could potentially bump Jabari down a spot considering how well Randle played in the tournament. But I hadn't considered johnb's angle... if Jabari wants play for a better team, then being drafted later could actually be a positive (obviously we won't know for sure until after the ping pong balls fall, which will be after the deadline to declare.

[mr. synellinden]

Stauskas is leaving Michigan (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10760537/nik-stauskas-michigan-wolverines-enter-nba-draft-per-source).


UPDATE: Then there was this tweet:

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter 11m
UPDATE: Michigan G Nik Stauskas says he has not yet made his final decision about NBA Draft. » http://es.pn/1etR0Z3

[pfrduke]

Stauskas is leaving Michigan (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10760537/nik-stauskas-michigan-wolverines-enter-nba-draft-per-source).


UPDATE: Then there was this tweet:

SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter 11m
UPDATE: Michigan G Nik Stauskas says he has not yet made his final decision about NBA Draft. » http://es.pn/1etR0Z3

It feels like this year, moreso than in past years, there has been news breaking followed by players saying "um, not so fast" (and then declaring anyway, but still).

[OldSchool]

If I'm Jabari and Milwaukee is getting the first pick and I think Embid goes first and I might be more likely to go to a team like Boston, Embid going pro might be an inducement.

As for Turner, his silence means all of the articles are merely conjecture...

If I were Jabari I would stay for another year. In all likelihood the NBA will still be there playing basketball and paying enormous salaries a year in the future. But of course I'm not Jabari.

However, while I think it is feasible to get a degree after two years, I don't see how anyone can get it done after only one year. Not to mention the fact that it is quite a different experience between being a sophomore in college at age 19 than at, say, age 32. If Jabari leaves school this year, I just don't see him ever graduating from Duke. If Kyrie ever does get it done, then I will take my hat off to him, but it won't surprise me to see him actually look like Uncle Drew by the time he is awarded his degree.

Having said that, if I knew for certain that I would be going to the Boston Celtics or the Los Angeles Lakers then I would strongly consider forgoing the realistic opportunity to graduate in order to be taken by an organization that very likely will be committed to competing for championships. Unless you are LeBron James (and even he needed to persuade other all-stars to join him in Miami order to be able to compete for a title) whether an NBA player will ever get the chance to compete for a championship depends to a large extent on the fortuitousness of the draft and the free agent market. Look at Carmelo, who may not even make the playoffs this year.

The problem is that Jabari will have to make a decision before he knows what order the teams will choose in the lottery. So he would have little idea at the time he has to decide whether he is more likely to go to Milwaukee or to Boston.

If Jabari does decide to stay at Duke another year, I would recommend he take the introductory course to financial accounting and a course on investments in the Econ department, so that later he would at least be able to understand the language of his agents and investment advisers.

[SoCalDukeFan]

If I were Jabari I would stay for another year. In all likelihood the NBA will still be there playing basketball and paying enormous salaries a year in the future. But of course I'm not Jabari.

However, while I think it is feasible to get a degree after two years, I don't see how anyone can get it done after only one year. Not to mention the fact that it is quite a different experience between being a sophomore in college at age 19 than at, say, age 32. If Jabari leaves school this year, I just don't see him ever graduating from Duke. If Kyrie ever does get it done, then I will take my hat off to him, but it won't surprise me to see him actually look like Uncle Drew by the time he is awarded his degree.

Having said that, if I knew for certain that I would be going to the Boston Celtics or the Los Angeles Lakers then I would strongly consider forgoing the realistic opportunity to graduate in order to be taken by an organization that very likely will be committed to competing for championships. Unless you are LeBron James (and even he needed to persuade other all-stars to join him in Miami order to be able to compete for a title) whether an NBA player will ever get the chance to compete for a championship depends to a large extent on the fortuitousness of the draft and the free agent market. Look at Carmelo, who may not even make the playoffs this year.

The problem is that Jabari will have to make a decision before he knows what order the teams will choose in the lottery. So he would have little idea at the time he has to decide whether he is more likely to go to Milwaukee or to Boston.

If Jabari does decide to stay at Duke another year, I would recommend he take the introductory course to financial accounting and a course on investments in the Econ department, so that later he would at least be able to understand the language of his agents and investment advisers.

I don't want to take this thread down an unintended path, but I will say that there are many in LA who are not convinced that the Lakers are any more committed to winning championships than any other team and seem more committed to satisfying Jim Buss's ego or something.

SoCal

[OldSchool]

I don't want to take this thread down an unintended path, but I will say that there are many in LA who are not convinced that the Lakers are any more committed to winning championships than any other team and seem more committed to satisfying Jim Buss's ego or something.

SoCal

You may be right, but Team Kobe seems intent on pushing the organization hard. It will be interesting to see how it plays out!

[Olympic Fan]

It feels like this year, moreso than in past years, there has been news breaking followed by players saying "um, not so fast" (and then declaring anyway, but still).

That includes Randle, who responded to the ESPN announcement that he was leaving by tweeting that he has not yet made up his mind. Obviously, the odds are that he goes, but it's not official.

TJ Warren was a guy listed as going for weeks, but he denied it too ... right up to his announcement two days ago.

[gam7]

It feels like this year, moreso than in past years, there has been news breaking followed by players saying "um, not so fast" (and then declaring anyway, but still).

And this is the second time for Stauskas - earlier in the year his dad said he was definitely leaving and Staukas said his dad had no idea what he was talking about.

[The Gordog]

If Jabari does decide to stay at Duke another year, I would recommend he take the introductory course to financial accounting and a course on investments in the Econ department, so that later he would at least be able to understand the language of his agents and investment advisers.

Because, you know, he probably doesn't know much about money because he's, you know... Cheese-us Cripes!

And the are no courses on investments in the Econ Dept. or anywhere else for that matter. Maybe the business school?

What he, and anyone with significant assets for that matter, needs is an unbiased, fee-only financial planner, IMHO.

[johnb]

I seem to recall that when Grant Hill came into the league, contracts were staggered in lockstep based on draft position. Instead of hiring an agent, who would be needed for the haggling, Grant hired an attorney and paid him by the hour. Mr. Hill is now a very rich man despite that albatross of a Duke degree.

[OldSchool]

Because, you know, he probably doesn't know much about money because he's, you know... Cheese-us Cripes!

And the are no courses on investments in the Econ Dept. or anywhere else for that matter. Maybe the business school?

What he, and anyone with significant assets for that matter, needs is an unbiased, fee-only financial planner, IMHO.

If Jabari becomes among, say, the top 20 players in the league and plays for 10 years or more then we are talking about managing an asset base in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Being a proper steward of that does not mean just hire some guy to look after it and forget it. Just to properly select the right people to manage it and supervise them requires a commitment of attention and some acquired knowledge.

And yes, there are courses on investments both in the Econ Dept and at the B School. Courses to consider: ECON 174 Financial Accounting & ECON 272S Investment Strategies (the latter requires prior econ courses or a waiver).

[walras]

"And there are no courses on investments in the Econ Dept. or anywhere else for that matter. Maybe the business school?"

Nonsense: Econ Undergrad Course #s: 174, 274, 368, 372, 373, 378, 418, 471
See also http://econ.duke.edu/fep

[BD80]

I seem to recall that when Grant Hill came into the league, contracts were staggered in lockstep based on draft position. Instead of hiring an agent, who would be needed for the haggling, Grant hired an attorney and paid him by the hour. Mr. Hill is now a very rich man despite that albatross of a Duke degree.

But now he is a kept man, living off his wife's fame and fortune ...

Actually, neither of them really has a 9-5 gig

[Bluedog]

^You don't even have to take the effort of an economics course at Duke to invest better than probably 95% of the population. Just follow Warren Buffet's lead, choose something simple like Vanguard 500, and outperform hedge funds (http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2014/02/05/buffett-widens-lead-in-1-million-bet/). (I myself would use a total stock market and add a total international equities with some total bond in there too - still, three funds is not overly complicated and would cost like 10 basis points. This is not meant to stir up investment controversy - just that reasonable investing can be easy and cheap; estate planning requires a professional when talking about those huge sums of money though...) Sorry for being a bit off-topic. :)

[tommy]

And in a possibly early entry-related tidbit, Michigan big man Jon Horford is transferring. He is a rising senior. I am thinking that this could possibly be a signal that Mitch McGary is coming back to Ann Arbor. Why else would Horford transfer? With the graduation of Jordan Morgan, Horford was due to step into a much bigger, possibly a starting role for the Wolverines. Michigan better hope this is a sign that McGary will return, because if he doesn't, and they also don't have either Morgan or Horford, they are looking extremely thin upfront.

Also, not sure if he had previously announced, and today was just the announcement of who his agent will be, or if today was the entire thing being announced. But in any event, to the surprise of nobody, Noah Vonleh is coming out. Probable mid-lottery pick.

[FerryFor50]

And in a possibly early entry-related tidbit, Michigan big man Jon Horford is transferring. He is a rising senior. I am thinking that this could possibly be a signal that Mitch McGary is coming back to Ann Arbor. Why else would Horford transfer? With the graduation of Jordan Morgan, Horford was due to step into a much bigger, possibly a starting role for the Wolverines. Michigan better hope this is a sign that McGary will return, because if he doesn't, and they also don't have either Morgan or Horford, they are looking extremely thin upfront.

Also, not sure if he had previously announced, and today was just the announcement of who his agent will be, or if today was the entire thing being announced. But in any event, to the surprise of nobody, Noah Vonleh is coming out. Probable mid-lottery pick.

Any chance Duke goes after Horford?

[tommy]

Any chance Duke goes after Horford?

Huh. I hadn't even considered that. He's 6'10" and 250, defensive minded. Obviously, experienced. He was a captain of Michigan's team this past year, and has been lauded for his role as a veteran leader and steadying influence for the Wolverines. Sounds like a pretty good fit with our front court and our team in general. Only thing is, if he's looking for a lot of PT -- I'm not sure he'd get tons of minutes here. Some, yes, but how many, really?

[mr. synellinden]

Huh. I hadn't even considered that. He's 6'10" and 250, defensive minded. Obviously, experienced. He was a captain of Michigan's team this past year, and has been lauded for his role as a veteran leader and steadying influence for the Wolverines. Sounds like a pretty good fit with our front court and our team in general. Only thing is, if he's looking for a lot of PT -- I'm not sure he'd get tons of minutes here. Some, yes, but how many, really?

This isn't a Tarik Black type of situation, is it? Meaning a 5th year senior who is eligible to play right away? Not that we couldn't use him in two years when Okafor likely would be gone.

[sfinleyo]

This isn't a Tarik Black type of situation, is it? Meaning a 5th year senior who is eligible to play right away? Not that we couldn't use him in two years when Okafor likely would be gone.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24521313/michigans-jon-horford-transferring-should-be-eligible-immediately

He's a redshirt jr so he'll be graduating this year. He should be able to play right away. He did give Cook a shove in their game against Michigan earlier this year though, making Quinn angry enough to throw the ball at him and receive a technical. Not really relevant but just a play I remember (Mainly because I'm from Michigan and the Wolverine fans have gotten almost unbearable the last 4 years).

[CDu]

Any chance Duke goes after Horford?

Seems doubtful. More importantly, seems doubtful he would be interested in us. With Okafor and Plumlee, I can't imagine we could offer him much playing time. Surely a different school would make more sense for him.

[The Gordog]

If Jabari becomes among, say, the top 20 players in the league and plays for 10 years or more then we are talking about managing an asset base in the hundreds of millions of dollars. Being a proper steward of that does not mean just hire some guy to look after it and forget it. Just to properly select the right people to manage it and supervise them requires a commitment of attention and some acquired knowledge.

And yes, there are courses on investments both in the Econ Dept and at the B School. Courses to consider: ECON 174 Financial Accounting & ECON 272S Investment Strategies (the latter requires prior econ courses or a waiver).


"And there are no courses on investments in the Econ Dept. or anywhere else for that matter. Maybe the business school?"

Nonsense: Econ Undergrad Course #s: 174, 274, 368, 372, 373, 378, 418, 471
See also http://econ.duke.edu/fep

Interesting. When I searched here (https://registrar.duke.edu/search/node/Investments)I got no results for "Investment" or "Investments".

Thanks for setting me straight.

[MCFinARL]

Interesting. When I searched here (https://registrar.duke.edu/search/node/Investments)I got no results for "Investment" or "Investments".

Thanks for setting me straight.

The catalog also lists Econ 271, Basic Finance and Investments, which is offered in the fall. Though I haven't tested this assumption, I suspect the Registrar's Office search box you used is only plugged into general material on the registrar's website and not the catalog or schedule of courses.

[conmanlhughes]

Jarnell Stokes is the next one to declare early. Big, talented PF from Tennessee.

[gam7]

Montrezl Harrell is coming back according to a tweet by him. Was projected to be mid-late first round (Hood territory). Great news for Louisville. Good for ACC. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10781175/montrezl-harrell-tweets-return-louisville

Arizona is less for fortunate. Gordon gone. Johnson also likely gone. http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10780763/aaron-gordon-leaving-arizona-nba-draft

[tommy]

Montrezl Harrell is coming back according to a tweet by him. Was projected to be mid-late first round (Hood territory). Great news for Louisville. Good for ACC. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10781175/montrezl-harrell-tweets-return-louisville

Arizona is less for fortunate. Gordon gone. Johnson also likely gone. http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10780763/aaron-gordon-leaving-arizona-nba-draft

The Nick Johnson loss would hurt more than the loss of Aaron Gordon. Stanley Johnson is going to come in and replace Gordon on the wing, and he is already a better, more polished, more fluid offensive player than Gordon, and he's pretty dang good defensively too. They won't miss a beat there. I think they've been expecting to lose Nick Johnson, but if they just lose him and Gordon, and don't lose either Tarczewski or Hollis-Jefferson, they're going to be very, very tough next year.

[tommy]

Both Syracuse's Jerami Grant and Michigan's Glenn Robinson are going pro. Different issues, but I don't see either player as a star in the league, and indeed both are going to have some work to do to earn a lucrative second contract.

Syracuse is looking like they're going to take a decent sized step down next year, but never underestimate Boeheim. Michigan now really needs either Stauskas (unlikely) or McGary (more likely, but then again, his age) to come back, or they're going to take a good sized step down too.

[jekelish]

Both Syracuse's Jerami Grant and Michigan's Glenn Robinson are going pro. Different issues, but I don't see either player as a star in the league, and indeed both are going to have some work to do to earn a lucrative second contract.

Syracuse is looking like they're going to take a decent sized step down next year, but never underestimate Boeheim. Michigan now really needs either Stauskas (unlikely) or McGary (more likely, but then again, his age) to come back, or they're going to take a good sized step down too.

Hi guys - as a Syracuse fan, the Grant one hurts. He's simply not ready. Doesn't have the skills to play the 3, or the size to play the 4. The very definition of a tweener.

SU will be in rebuilding mode next year but has a couple frosh with serious potential. Chris McCullough has the size, athleticism, and skills to be a top 5 pick next year but supposedly he lacks fire and doesn't necessarily have the drive to put it all together. Kaleb Joseph is an elite athlete at PG and has a great work ethic but who knows how ready he will be to handle the starting role.

Anyway guys, good luck to Duke against anyone not named SU...although you guys destroyed my bracket! I had you guys in the title game (which is funny - I came soooooo close to picking the Mercer game, but rather than a 14 over 3, I put you in the championship...apparently there's no in between for me!).

Also, if you guys ever want to swing by, myself and a couple other guys started a new SU site called ottosgrove.com last week. Still a work in progress but feel free to come by and check out our forums and talk some hoops.

Have a great one, folks!

[jv001]

Hi guys - as a Syracuse fan, the Grant one hurts. He's simply not ready. Doesn't have the skills to play the 3, or the size to play the 4. The very definition of a tweener.

SU will be in rebuilding mode next year but has a couple frosh with serious potential. Chris McCullough has the size, athleticism, and skills to be a top 5 pick next year but supposedly he lacks fire and doesn't necessarily have the drive to put it all together. Kaleb Joseph is an elite athlete at PG and has a great work ethic but who knows how ready he will be to handle the starting role.

Anyway guys, good luck to Duke against anyone not named SU...although you guys destroyed my bracket! I had you guys in the title game (which is funny - I came soooooo close to picking the Mercer game, but rather than a 14 over 3, I put you in the championship...apparently there's no in between for me!).

Also, if you guys ever want to swing by, myself and a couple other guys started a new SU site called ottosgrove.com last week. Still a work in progress but feel free to come by and check out our forums and talk some hoops.

Have a great one, folks!

Thanks for the invite. GoDuke!

[nmduke2001]

New Mexico's Alex Kirk declared. Interesting situation for Kirk. He was hurt early at UNM and took a redshirt year. He's already 23 entering what would have been his senior year. I think there is a zero percent chance he is drafted to the NBA but he knew his age was working against him to make money as a pro somewhere.

[sfinleyo]

http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=10782258

Gary Harris looks to be leaving. DUKE play MSU next year in the Champions Classic, too. Never count out an Izzo team but they seem to be in for a rebuilding year.

[FerryFor50]

New Mexico's Alex Kirk declared. Interesting situation for Kirk. He was hurt early at UNM and took a redshirt year. He's already 23 entering what would have been his senior year. I think there is a zero percent chance he is drafted to the NBA but he knew his age was working against him to make money as a pro somewhere.

Well, they always say you can't teach size...

[richardjackson199]

Montrezl Harrell is coming back according to a tweet by him. Was projected to be mid-late first round (Hood territory). Great news for Louisville. Good for ACC. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10781175/montrezl-harrell-tweets-return-louisville

Arizona is less for fortunate. Gordon gone. Johnson also likely gone. http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10780763/aaron-gordon-leaving-arizona-nba-draft

Surprised about Harrell - I thought earlier he looked like a lock to go pro. Similar kind of scenario last year with Russ Smith deciding to stay in school after reports that he was certain to declare.

[gam7]

Surprised about Harrell - I thought earlier he looked like a lock to go pro. Similar kind of scenario last year with Russ Smith deciding to stay in school after reports that he was certain to declare.

Yes, he's really the first major surprise that we've seen so far with respect to the pro vs. stay decision.

[BD80]

Seems like a rash of decisions announced today. Why?

Just the news cycle, or kids taking the weekend to mull it over?

[Henderson]

Seems like a rash of decisions announced today. Why?

Just the news cycle, or kids taking the weekend to mull it over?

Dunno, but Cauley-Stein tweeted that he's staying at KY for another year.

[FerryFor50]

Jerami Grant is gone (http://college-basketball.si.com/2014/04/14/syracuse-orange-jerami-grant-nba-draft/?mobile=no)

Syracuse is screwed next year.

[BD80]

Jerami Grant is gone (http://college-basketball.si.com/2014/04/14/syracuse-orange-jerami-grant-nba-draft/?mobile=no)

Syracuse is screwed next year.

So they were a one and done in the ACC?

[FerryFor50]

Glenn Robinson JuniorJunior (http://www.freep.com/article/20140414/SPORTS06/304140110/glenn-robinson-iii-nba-michigan-basketball) is also gone.

(Name that movie reference!)

[lotusland]

Thought this quote from Self was interesting:



Kansas coach Bill Self was also honored at the event with the Wayman Tisdale Humanitarian Award and he talked from experience about the decision Parker is facing. Self recently had two freshmen, Andrew Wiggins and Joel Embiid, declare for the draft and last season had a one-and-done player in Ben McLemore.

''I hope that Coach K's meeting goes better than my meeting went with Joel and Ben. Wiggins, we knew he was gone before we even got him,'' said Self. ''Jabari, I had a chance to recruit him and he's obviously a special talent and great human being. But the way it's set up, it makes it very difficult for these kids to come back. He'll make a great decision whatever it is.''

http://msn.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/duke-blue-devils-jabari-parker-to-decide-wednesday-on-going-pro-041414

I guess he advised Embiid to stay???

[dukelifer]

Jerami Grant is gone (http://college-basketball.si.com/2014/04/14/syracuse-orange-jerami-grant-nba-draft/?mobile=no)

Syracuse is screwed next year.

Tough for Boeheim - not sure he has the energy to rebuild from scratch.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Tough for Boeheim - not sure he has the energy to rebuild from scratch.
He looked pretty energetic flying all over the floor of Cameron.

[MChambers]

Tough for Boeheim - not sure he has the energy to rebuild from scratch.

Said it was the worst call he's seen all year.

[Dev11]

Thought this quote from Self was interesting:




http://msn.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/duke-blue-devils-jabari-parker-to-decide-wednesday-on-going-pro-041414

I guess he advised Embiid to stay???

I'm surprised he was so candid about the discussions. Self seems like he generally does a good job of mixing in early entry guys with older guys and not making a big deal about it.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I'm surprised he was so candid about the discussions. Self seems like he generally does a good job of mixing in early entry guys with older guys and not making a big deal about it.

I enjoy Self's candidness (is that a word?).

Self's rationale behind asking Embiid to stay makes complete sense, and I'm not sure he's hiding anything (Ben McLemore is a bit more surprising). Embiid has only been playing basketball for, what, 3-4 years? He has a bad back and patience / rehad will do his back good. Kansas will provide that. I'm not sure a team like Milwaukee / Orlando would wait that long (although Philly did with Noel, but that team wanted to tank). Embiid will be the absolute man on the team this year, with more offensive opportunities. Embiid staying, IMO, makes a lot more sense than Wiggins or Jabari staying.

However, if Embiid is a guaranteed 2 pick (which seems likely), so you gotta go.

[MCFinARL]

I enjoy Self's candidness (is that a word?).

Self's rationale behind asking Embiid to stay makes complete sense, and I'm not sure he's hiding anything (Ben McLemore is a bit more surprising). Embiid has only been playing basketball for, what, 3-4 years? He has a bad back and patience / rehad will do his back good. Kansas will provide that. I'm not sure a team like Milwaukee / Orlando would wait that long (although Philly did with Noel, but that team wanted to tank). Embiid will be the absolute man on the team this year, with more offensive opportunities. Embiid staying, IMO, makes a lot more sense than Wiggins or Jabari staying.

However, if Embiid is a guaranteed 2 pick (which seems likely), so you gotta go.

Yes, Embiid's situation is tricky. Your defense of staying at Kansas makes a lot of sense from a long-term career perspective. But there is a risk in staying, as well--what if the back injury doesn't rehab as well as expected, or flares up again during the season, and Embiid loses a lot of draft ground because he is now perceived as a damaged or injury-prone player? It's a big chance to take if you know you can go high right now.

Also, maybe "candor"?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yes, Embiid's situation is tricky. Your defense of staying at Kansas makes a lot of sense from a long-term career perspective. But there is a risk in staying, as well--what if the back injury doesn't rehab as well as expected, or flares up again during the season, and Embiid loses a lot of draft ground because he is now perceived as a damaged or injury-prone player? It's a big chance to take if you know you can go high right now.

Also, maybe "candor"?

Sweet. 2 Duke degrees and I couldn't come up with "candor". Thanks.

I'm with you on Embiid. If I'm him, I'm gone. Just like if I'm Wiggins, Jabari, the Harrison twins, Randle, Hood, and about 15 other players, I'm long gone. I'd argue that the risk of falling in the draft and getting injured, coupled with better training / facilities in the NBA, makes for a compelling reason to bolt if you're a top 15 pick.

[Saratoga2]

The paper indicate Harris is going into the draft.

[TexHawk]

I think folks are reading into Self's statement a bit too much. I doubt that he tried super hard to convince Joel/Ben to stay. My guess is his tongue was in or near his cheek, or perhaps just talking like "of course I wanted to coach them again, who wouldn't?" He does that sort of stuff all of the time.

The other thing that needs to be mentioned is Embiid's age. He just turned 20, while Wiggins/Parker/Gordon/Randle are all 18 or 19 (Embiid and Parker have the same birthday, one year apart). Big men with injury problems should probably get going while the going is still going. People forget that the first injury that begat the back problems was a hyperextended knee in a blowout win over TCU.

You are correct that he would be the #1a option next year, but that also means all of the defensive attention, and a bunch of little dudes poking your back and ribs with elbows.

[Dev11]

I think folks are reading into Self's statement a bit too much. I doubt that he tried super hard to convince Joel/Ben to stay. My guess is his tongue was in or near his cheek, or perhaps just talking like "of course I wanted to coach them again, who wouldn't?" He does that sort of stuff all of the time.

The other thing that needs to be mentioned is Embiid's age. He just turned 20, while Wiggins/Parker/Gordon/Randle are all 18 or 19 (Embiid and Parker have the same birthday, one year apart). Big men with injury problems should probably get going while the going is still going. People forget that the first injury that begat the back problems was a hyperextended knee in a blowout win over TCU.

You are correct that he would be the #1a option next year, but that also means all of the defensive attention, and a bunch of little dudes poking your back and ribs with elbows.

I suppose I was surprised that Self even mentioned trying to convince Embiid to come back. He's the one I would have pegged to get told that his situation could only get worse if he didn't leave this year, between his almost sure top two selection and his injury concerns. Take that money while you still can.

[BD80]

Sweet. 2 Duke degrees and I couldn't come up with "candor". ...

Neither could Nixon.

[MCFinARL]

Neither could Nixon.

But didn't he only have one Duke degree?

[sagegrouse]

Neither could Nixon.


Thanks for the opening, BD! I was gonna post on the off-topic board but now I can come to Broadway. We just concluded our reunion weekend at Duke. It was very, very busy and a lot of fun. On Sunday morning the old guys and gals get together for a final breakfast at the Wash Duke. Most were my classmates, but there were a few (even) older alums.

At the end of the breakfast, I strolled across the room and ... then stopped in amazement. There was a tall stoop-shouldered guy ahead of me who was the spitting image of Richard Nixon. I looked at his nametag to get his class and first name, but there was no doubt he was a Nixon. It was Ed Nixon, Duke Class of 1952, the youngest and only surviving of the five Nixon brothers. He was a nice fellow, and I went over to say hi to him. He said, "Well, there is a family resemblance, isn't there?"

[SoCalDukeFan]

And he is a Dukie!!!!

Link (http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/04/15/blue-devil-declares-nba-draft--2015)

SoCal

[CameronBornAndBred]

And he is a Dukie!!!!

Link (http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/04/15/blue-devil-declares-nba-draft--2015)

SoCal
Love the duck tape. I place the early exit of our team this year solely on the weight of Phil's shoulders. Thanks for nothing, buddy!:rolleyes:

[Merlindevildog91]

Love the duck tape. I place the early exit of our team this year solely on the weight of Phil's shoulders. Thanks for nothing, buddy!:rolleyes:

Think of all the angst we could have avoided had we known earlier that the Mercer loss was all this young man's fault.

[BD80]

Stauskus and Robinson III gone:

http://msn.foxsports.com/detroit/story/michigan-s-stauskas-robinson-headed-to-nba-041514

That's 4 starters gone and McGary yet to announce. B1G whatever should be the Badgers playground next year. Maybe NW can make some noise.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Think of all the angst we could have avoided had we known earlier that the Mercer loss was all this young man's fault.

to see him taken by Cleveland in the 2nd round.

SoCal

[Troublemaker]

Aaron Gordon and Nick Johnson enter draft (announced via press conference, so it's a lock)

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24527989/arizonas-aaron-gordon-and-nick-johnson-leaving-for-nba-draft

[TruBlu]

And he is a Dukie!!!!

Link (http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/04/15/blue-devil-declares-nba-draft--2015)

SoCal


Think of all the angst we could have avoided had we known earlier that the Mercer loss was all this young man's fault.

And think of the angst we will go through trying to recalculate the "minutes distribution" debate on DBR for the next few years, now that we can't count on him for any minutes.

[flyingdutchdevil]

to see him taken by Cleveland in the 2nd round.

SoCal

You're giving Cleveland too much credit. He's clearly going to the Cavs in the lottery.

[COYS]

Glenn Robinson JuniorJunior (http://www.freep.com/article/20140414/SPORTS06/304140110/glenn-robinson-iii-nba-michigan-basketball) is also gone.

(Name that movie reference!)

Everything is illuminated, which is an even better book!

[FerryFor50]

Everything is illuminated, which is an even better book!

We have a winner! Sporks forthcoming! :)

[dukelifer]

And he is a Dukie!!!!

Link (http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/04/15/blue-devil-declares-nba-draft--2015)

SoCal

It's over.

[gofurman]

Tough for Boeheim - not sure he has the energy to rebuild from scratch.

right - isn't that CJ Fair, Grant and Ennis gone now??? please someone confirm. if so that is a big hurt on the Cuse

[FerryFor50]

right - isn't that CJ Fair, Grant and Ennis gone now??? please someone confirm. if so that is a big hurt on the Cuse

Yes. Fair was a senior. Grant and Ennis have declared. They also lose Keita to graduation.

[tommy]

Stauskus and Robinson III gone:

http://msn.foxsports.com/detroit/story/michigan-s-stauskas-robinson-headed-to-nba-041514

That's 4 starters gone and McGary yet to announce. B1G whatever should be the Badgers playground next year. Maybe NW can make some noise.

I think it's 3 starters gone -- Stauskas, Robinson, and Morgan. Walton and LeVert return.

[Olympic Fan]

Wasn't April 15th the last day that a player could pill out of the NCAA draft?

Did anybody pull out? There were some rumors that Tyler Ennis might change his mind and come back.

But I think midnight was the deadline.

[HK Dukie]

Wasn't April 15th the last day that a player could pill out of the NCAA draft?



This website goes through the deadline process http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/04/overview_of_dates_key_info_as.html

Below is the key point....

"The NBA's entry date of April 27 makes the NCAA's date of April 15 a veritable moot point. Players have nothing to gain by declaring prior to April 15, other than knowingly eliminating their collegiate eligibility if they don't withdrawal by the 15th."

[MChambers]

Wasn't April 15th the last day that a player could pill out of the NCAA draft?

Did anybody pull out? There were some rumors that Tyler Ennis might change his mind and come back.

But I think midnight was the deadline.
That was the deadline for filing your tax return.:p

[gus]

And he is a Dukie!!!!

Link (http://www.dukechronicle.com/articles/2014/04/15/blue-devil-declares-nba-draft--2015)

SoCal

It's been done already (http://www.draftfeinstein.com/process.php). Though I do like the duck taped basketball.

[Henderson]

Though I do like the duck taped basketball.


Love the duck tape.

Is that stuff for taping ducks? Or ducts? :rolleyes:

[sagegrouse]

Is that stuff for taping ducks? Or ducts? :rolleyes:

One of the lesser mysteries of the universe, but still a puzzle. I always thought it was "duct tape," 'cuz it is close to what the HVAC people used back in the day. In Walmart's and CVS it is now called "Duck Tape."

[gus]

Is that stuff for taping ducks? Or ducts? :rolleyes:

Duck tape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#History_and_etymology) has a number of uses, but I wouldn't personally use it to tape ducks. Nor ducts for that matter.

[MCFinARL]

That was the deadline for filing your tax return.:p

Well, it was a deadline for returns one way or the other.

[wilson]

...it is now called "Duck Tape."Duck Tape (http://www.duckbrand.com/) is a brand of duct tape (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Products/?N=5472497&rt=r3).

[sagegrouse]

Duck Tape (http://www.duckbrand.com/) is a brand of duct tape (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Products/?N=5472497&rt=r3).

So, you're saying it is a non-existent "mystery of the universe," not a "lesser" one? While my world is now shattered, it can be put back together with duct tape.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Is that stuff for taping ducks? Or ducts? :rolleyes:
It is actually called Duck tape. It is the brand name. (Like saying Scotch tape.) :D

Edit...thanks to Wilson for the link. Just saw he answered the brand issue, too.

[CameronBornAndBred]

To get this thread back on topic, I read the response from Willie Cauley-Stein, and while he is missing a D and an E, I do give him credit for returning for the right reasons, specifically, his education. Very cool to see.


"I want to come back and have a chance to win a national championship, while also getting closer to earning my degree,"
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10782719/willie-cauley-stein-returning-kentucky-junior-season

[gus]

Duck Tape (http://www.duckbrand.com/) is a brand of duct tape (http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Products/?N=5472497&rt=r3).

Here's another discussion of the etymology with some recent research:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-duc4.htm

I'm firmly in the camp that either "duck" or "duct" is well understood and acceptable, but in spoken American english I think "duct tape" is actually rare as most elide "duc[]" and "tape".

[Olympic Fan]

This website goes through the deadline process http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/04/overview_of_dates_key_info_as.html

Below is the key point....

"The NBA's entry date of April 27 makes the NCAA's date of April 15 a veritable moot point. Players have nothing to gain by declaring prior to April 15, other than knowingly eliminating their collegiate eligibility if they don't withdrawal by the 15th."

But that does confirm that April 15 was a key date ... according to the NCAA, those who have declared can't pull out. It used to be a bigger deal ... the NCAA date was late enough that half a dozen kids declared "to test the waters" every year. We saw three key players at UNC (Lawson, Ellington and Green) declare in the spring of 2008 and eventually pull out, allowing UNC to win the national title in 2009.

But not much time to test anything these days. Still, the deadline means that Ennis is definitely gone (contrary to some Syracuse wishful thinking that he would pull out).

[Henderson]

One of the lesser mysteries of the universe, but still a puzzle. I always thought it was "duct tape," 'cuz it is close to what the HVAC people used back in the day. In Walmart's and CVS it is now called "Duck Tape."


Duck tape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#History_and_etymology) has a number of uses, but I wouldn't personally use it to tape ducks. Nor ducts for that matter.

The mouth-breathers never could get "duct tape." They kept calling it "duck tape" and couldn't find it at Walmart. So some producers finally caved. It's either the evolution of language or a marketing capitulation to the uninformed. We either accede to the barbarian hordes or we don't. I acknowledge that language evolves, but I'm holding the line at duct tape.

[gus]

The mouth-breathers never could get "duct tape." They kept calling it "duck tape" and couldn't find it at Walmart. So some producers finally caved. It's either the evolution of language or a marketing capitulation to the uninformed. We either accede to the barbarian hordes or we don't. I acknowledge that language evolves, but I'm holding the line at duct tape.

I think your use of "uninformed" is a bit ironic. I understand the stubborness though -- I refuse to accept "beg the question" to mean "raise a question" or "literally" as an intensifier (despite being used that way for centuries).

[Henderson]

I think your use of "uninformed" is a bit ironic. I understand the stubborness though -- I refuse to accept "beg the question" to mean "raise a question" or "literally" as an intensifier (despite being used that way for centuries).

I once heard a football announcer say excitedly that a player "literally waltzed into the end zone," which was not only ironic since he meant the exact opposite (figuratively waltzed into the end zone), but amusing once I tried to visualize it. But enough thread-jacking.... I've got some ducts that need taping.