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CameronBornAndBred
03-26-2014, 11:00 AM
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209445036&DB_OEM_ID=4200


Duke head coach Mike Krzyzewski (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?&ATCLID=152844&DB_OEM_ID=4200) will hold a press conference this afternoon to discuss the 2013-14 men’s basketball season and a number of other topics.
Stream is free.

moonpie23
03-26-2014, 12:12 PM
looks like you have to sign up and pay?

jv001
03-26-2014, 12:17 PM
looks like you have to sign up and pay?

Says today, all Blue Devil fans can view free. GoDuke!

-jk
03-26-2014, 12:19 PM
Launch the player, choose Live Events, it's at the top of the list.

It's streaming, but K isn't there yet.

-jk

Duvall
03-26-2014, 12:29 PM
In news that will please most Duke fans, it looks like Krzyzewski will be around for at least another five seasons.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-26-2014, 12:29 PM
Launch the player, choose Live Events, it's at the top of the list.

It's streaming, but K isn't there yet.

-jk

Coach K says he's going to be at Duke for another five years. My level of nerves has dropped substantially. Whew.

gumbomoop
03-26-2014, 12:30 PM
Launch the player, choose Live Events, it's at the top of the list.

It's streaming, but K isn't there yet.

-jk

Hmmm .... I'm on iPad Air, have launched player and chosen live events, but keep getting message, "Playback of this media is not supported."

Won't worry about it, but would appreciate any tidbits, overall summary later. Thanks to anyone out there.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-26-2014, 12:31 PM
For those at work, Adam Rowe is posting a play by play on his message board here... http://duke.247sports.com/Board/59461/Coach-K-Presser-today-at-1215-26755824/1#a26757214

Duvall
03-26-2014, 12:32 PM
Hmmm .... I'm on iPad Air, have launched player and chosen live events, but keep getting message, "Playback of this media is not supported."

Won't worry about it, but would appreciate any tidbits, overall summary later. Thanks to anyone out there.

On an iPad you need to use the Duke app. Can't use Safari to play GoDuke.com video.

Atlanta Duke
03-26-2014, 12:33 PM
K thinks the "20 and 2 rule" (aka 2 and done) will be implemented in the next 5 years

Defends one and done by Duke (cites what if back to back championships with Kyrie in 2011 - what would the response to Duke's use of one and done be then?)

If a great player wants to come to your school you have to be "an idiot" to say no - says K, not me:)

Acknowledges lack of on court leadership this past season (cites Zoubek as an amazing leader, shaking his head in admiration)

gumbomoop
03-26-2014, 12:34 PM
On an iPad you need to use the Duke app. Can't use Safari to play GoDuke.com video.

Thanks. I'm new to iPad, obviously still clueless.... Me, not you.

Duvall
03-26-2014, 12:40 PM
No draft decisions made yet, no announcements.

Troublemaker
03-26-2014, 01:24 PM
You know, I'm almost okay with Round-of-64 losses if we're going to have press conferences like these following them. (Yes, folks, everything is getting evaluated. As if there should've been any doubt about that.)

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 01:26 PM
You know, I'm almost okay with Round-of-64 losses if we're going to have press conferences like these following them. (Yes, folks, everything is getting evaluated. As if there should've been any doubt about that.)

Did Coach K give all upset fans signed basketballs and back rubs?

Care to explain your optimism? I didn't hear the press conference?

Duvall
03-26-2014, 01:27 PM
You know, I'm almost okay with Round-of-64 losses if we're going to have press conferences like these following them. (Yes, folks, everything is getting evaluated. As if there should've been any doubt about that.)

What, you mean the fact that Krzyzewski didn't throw a temper tantrum in the Mercer postgame press conference *wasn't* a sign of complacency? Imagine that.

Atlanta Duke
03-26-2014, 01:31 PM
Agreed that was very informative and impressive

It seemed to K is chapped about taking all the heat for his comparison of the A-10 and ACC. He thanked (not sarcastically) a reporter for bringing it up and and said nobody (which I took to mean other ACC coaches) had his back.

K said he will not be doing that again. With the "everything will be evaluated" theme of the presser I think K is going to let the rest of the conference take care of itself for awhile.

Native
03-26-2014, 01:34 PM
I've never heard K be this candid before.

Seems like the loss lit a fire underneath him. Hope he takes no prisoners next year.

jv001
03-26-2014, 01:48 PM
Some things mentioned by Coach K. 1) 5 more years 2) Playing 80 or so games AAU ball doesn't develop leaders. More about individual play than winning. 3) Leadership missing this season. Going to work on that. Said leaders need to be starters(30 min ppg). He said that Tyus is an outstanding leader.4) Lack of consistency at point guard this season. Said Quinn's best talent is shooting. 5) Going to look at defensive techniques and defensive conditioning off season. Said he and Wojo discussed it on the Ohio recruiting trip. He said that talking is the life blood for playing good defense and that the team didn't do it when they got tired. 6) He said that 2nd half leads evaporating came from not being able to give that extra push, but the other team did give it the extra push. Coach was candid and it seemed to me that next years team will be in better condition. He also gave a great compliment to Zoubs for being a great senior leader in 2010. I'm looking forward to next season already. GoDuke!

MCFinARL
03-26-2014, 01:49 PM
Some very interesting comments on the role of parents/AAU ball, etc., in the development of leadership skills--or, more properly, their non-development. K suggests kids learn more about leadership when they are putting together their own games, with their own rules, on the playground instead of having everything done for them.

This is right in line with a lot of other things that are being said these days about over-parenting and the effects of marching kids through organized activities rather than giving them some freer rein to do their own thing. But it's the first time I have heard a direct application to basketball.

Atlanta Duke
03-26-2014, 01:52 PM
Did Coach K give all upset fans signed basketballs and back rubs?

Care to explain your optimism? I didn't hear the press conference?

Link to the streaming video here

http://www.goduke.com/mediaPortal/player.dbml?&id=1112102&catid=0&KEY=&DB_OEM_ID=4200

Link to the running commentary here

http://duke.247sports.com/Board/59461/Coach-K-Presser-today-at-1215-26755824/1

This did not seem like someone in denial

He said everything is going to be evaluated but at the same time is not backing down on the current recruiting strategy (believes in the past 5 seasons the 2010, 2011 and 2013 teams were legitimate national championship contenders whereas from 2005-2009 only the 2006 team had a real shot). He did say the on court leadership this year was lacking and that will be something that is going to be under review as to why. His comments on how AAU ball as opposed to winners keeping the court games might be impacting the ability to lead were an angle I had not heard before. He also said it is hard to lead as a role player.

He was candid that perhaps what works in his motivational speeches to corporate execs and coaching grown men for Team USA might not always work for younger players - that indicated to me he acknowledges that for whatever reason this team did not respond as well to his coaching and he plans to figure out why.

It was also informative when K said players need to listen to the coach and the rest of a team needs to defer to the best players on the team (cited Chris Paul needing to adapt his game to LeBron, Durant & Kobe for Team USA). For next season he said that means other players tailoring their game to play off Okafor's talents

He also talked about the next 5 years - I regard it as a good thing that he does not sound like someone punching a time clock until he qualifies for a pension.

When I have seen K it is a post-game press conference. Having a chance to see him discuss more of his approach to maintaining a program was educational.

superdave
03-26-2014, 02:05 PM
Some very interesting comments on the role of parents/AAU ball, etc., in the development of leadership skills--or, more properly, their non-development. K suggests kids learn more about leadership when they are putting together their own games, with their own rules, on the playground instead of having everything done for them.

This is right in line with a lot of other things that are being said these days about over-parenting and the effects of marching kids through organized activities rather than giving them some freer rein to do their own thing. But it's the first time I have heard a direct application to basketball.

AAU reform!? Bring it on.

Seems like every forced shot, unnecessary spin move and loafing defense is a product of AAU ball. These kids travel more in high school than they do at high-major colleges. Maybe that should get shelved in favor of more local camps and actual work on fundamentals.

Super "Dreaming" Dave

bedeviled
03-26-2014, 02:39 PM
For those who are continually frustrated by GoDuke.com like I am, I took one for the team. Here ya go:
----------------------------------------
Good afternoon.
This is not something I usually do. Wish it was press conference in Indianapolis.
The reason I asked John to set this up:
It’s a good time to answer questions & meet with you
Main reason is it’s my 2nd grandson's 13th B-day, and I told him I'd do something special for him
This is it. He announced he wanted to play at Duke, but that's illegal for me to announce. Happy Bday, Michael.
I'm not against Bar-mitzvahs. I've done a lot of video tapes wishing people the best

COACH K’S HEALTH
This past year, I've had a number of setbacks. I had an issue with health at the Wake game. I want to clear the air. I'm good. I just finished my 34th year here.

RECENT DUKE PROGRAM TRENDS
Since the turn of the century, I try to not look at our program in a one year period (whether Champion or eliminated). I don't think that's the way to run a program. I look at 5 years periods. What kind of team are we? What’s the culture of basketball? What decisions did you make/not make?
Strategy decisions (formations, tactics) are made as a yearly thing.
From 2005-20099, we did not have many opportunities to win a National Championship.
From 2000-2004, we had 3 legit chances (2001,2002, and 2004). And we won one.
In the middle years, there was only one year where we were that good and had a shot (2006 with JJ, Shelden)
In 2010 and 2011, we had shots at winning it. Kyrie came back…and we're not the only ones with injuries
Last year with Mason, Ryan, Seth, I thought we had a real shot. With Ryan…we adjusted to how Seth was injured, but Ryan never got back.
We’ve had about 30 wins a year, 6 losses. Kind of like 2000-2004. For a while, we were like 28-7 for a 5 year period.
I try to get the trends of the landscape of college basketball…how we do things…how we recruit.

Think you'll be shocked…from last 5 yr period…If I had to change one thing, none of you will guess, I would have redshirted Ryan Kelly. He may not like that now, because he's with the Lakers and he would have been with us now instead. His mom & I talked about it after he graduated. He was a freshman on our Championship team. We had a lot of big guys, and he wasn't ready to play. He would have been on this team, and he would have been good.

DUKE PROGRAM TRENDS, LOOKING FORWARD
I’m looking ahead in 5 year periods and evaluating
Decisions:
1. Me – I need to know that I'm going to be here at that time, that I'm excited about that
2. Landscape - sometime, the 20yo/2yr in college rule will come in. NBA wants that. We're at their mercy. Players Union in a better organization would want that, too. It’s good for basketball, both NBA and college.
People ask, “What about one and done? How are you with that?” We're good with it. What if we won two straight Championships and Kyrie wasn't hurt? I'm not saying we would have, but we had a better chance. You would look at it as a completely different thing.
First of all, you’re not sure if the kid really will be a one and done. And, you recruit him if he is that good…and he has to fit Duke. A number of kids meet that criteria. You'd have to be an idiot to say, “No” if one of these top players wants to come.
SPECIFIC AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT IN PROGRAM TRENDS
The biggest thing in last 5 years when we didn't do as well, this past season at the end and a couple years ago at the end, yes, we could play better D, but, fundamentally, what we missed was on-the-court leadership play after play. To me, that's critical. We were never able to develop that. As a result, other things weren't developed as well. In practice, you're in control of practice. In a game, it's up to me to create an environment where players function as one and there is leadership and you can react to every situation like that. That's what we didn't do well. As we go into next season, that's a primary concern.
And, other things will improve accordingly.

Certain levels of leadership I should have developed better. They won something like 26 and 28 games. Not bad seasons. I've had bad seasons. But, we had a horrible ending. When you're making decisions, you don't do it because you lost a big deal, you take a look at the full body of work.

That's something we didn't have. With younger guys, if they have that support around them, they're going to function better. On the spot corrections help. We can't stop, sub, put a relief pitcher in. That's going to be one of my things - develop that type of leadership

Spring is a time when you don't know who you're going to have. Recruiting, draft, semester are not over. But, we'll be pretty good. How good will we be? It depends on who we have coming back and the development of what I just said. I really believe that's essential.

In all 4 Championship teams, we had amazing leadership on the court: Laettner, Hurley, Shane (ultimate leader), Jason, Duhon. In 2004, we could have really won, but lost to UConn in semis with Duhon, Redick. In 2010, John, Nolan, but Zoubek, he was really….

I can help our team more. That's going to be a focus for me going forward.

QUESTIONS: ??? (I’m guessing here) What do you mean by leadership?
ANSWER: Leadership is pretty easy to see and to see when you don't have it at a high level. It doesn't have to be by a point guard. Two of our best leaders were Battier and Laettner and Zoubek was unbelievable in his last year. You need guys who talk on the court, in a constant state of trying to figure out what's going on and trying to get their group to react to what's going on.

That's not as alive and well out there. Part of that is missing because....
I don't know how many kids go to a school yard and play winners. I don't know if any do. [Instead, the current culture is] “We have to be in Goldsboro at 2 o’clock for a tournament.” [Nowadays, young players have] more games, but someone is always telling kids what to do. It robs kids of chance to lead, such as picking teams on the blacktop and calling your own game. The number of games played by kids in Spring, Summer, and early Fall is 80-100. It could be 3 times as many as played for high school. Winning and losing - they lose their importance...their depth, their height.
“We lost at 11, we have another game at 2.”
“How many did you score?”
“8”
“Only 8?”
“Yeah, I'm going to score more this afternoon.”

So, when you see leadership, it's a coveted asset. We think we do have potential to have good leadership on our team next year. I’m not blaming anybody. That's my job. I should do that. It's going to be a focus of attention - learn from losing and accept responsibilities and try to learn more. The kids coming in are not just talented, but have character. Three of the them have been the leaders of their teams. And, again, only one of them is a point guard (and he's an outstanding leader).

I think a leader needs...off-the-court it doesn't matter. But, on the court, you have to be good enough to be on the court. You have to be a good player (starter, going to be out there 30-something minutes) to be a leader. If it's a role player, the team is not accustomed to hearing your voice. It's better if he's a good player...for on-the-court stufff. We have that capability.

QUESTION: ?? Any word on the draft decisions for your players?
ANSWER: We're in the process of meeting all of our players. We have no announcement to make on that, today. I hope that didn't mislead you; that's not the purpose of this today.

Jabari is going to be....he's in a great position for his future. That would be a big time decision not to go, because he's going to be one of the top picks. Rodney, I think, will be a 1st round pick. But, you don't know until things are sorted out.

It's not about being a first round pick; it's if you're ready, because you can be washed out quickly. If you are a lottery pick, you become a monetary asset and your chances of washing out are low. If you're not a lottery pick, you have to make it quick....to have staying power.

These kids should do what they feel is right for them. We'll adapt either way.

QUESTION: ??2014 NCAA Tournament
ANSWER: We're always trying to catch lightning in a bottle. You might not play 4 teams that would have beaten you because they, themselves, already got beat. We don't start this tournament like we're going to be beaten.

With the club we had this year, we're not the most mature (I'm not saying that in a negative way)…old, together. Thus, you have more chance of getting beat. That's why I said we could lose in more ways than one, and we invented a new one in the end. And we might have found a new way to win. We did not approach the tournament in a negative manner. I don't want to portray that.

From 2005-2009, John's freshman year (we lost double figure games – the lowest seed, 6, we've been in 15 years), the 2010 learned a lot from that. That's the thing now: you have to mature quicker. The 2010 team was allowed to mature over a 4 year period. By senior year, they were tough. That's what you see with some of these teams. Talking to Johnny. he has 3 seniors, 2 juniors, and 2 seniors off the bench. Stanford kind of just made it, but, now that they're in it…they've been through a lot, and that helps.

We try to push our guys through the season with the schedule and all that. I'd love for them to stay and see where they'll be in a year or a year after that. So would a lot of coaches. Things have changed. There’s just lots of parity out there, now. There just is.
Mercer's Gollon was an amazing player. He's going to be 25 years old. You have to learn to beat teams like that. To me, they were a lot like Vermont, who probably should have beaten us. They just missed the tournament.

College basketball is up for grabs. Going into the next few years, we need to figure out how to keep our status and have shots to win national title. It is important to win every game, but the record in every game becomes a mass. The biggest thing for us is if we can win the whole thing. That's how we're going to coach them - they have an opportunity next year.

QUESTION: Rasheed
ANSWER: Play like he played in the last game. How many jumpshots did he take in the last game? A number. He was looking for his shot, so he's not just a driver. Rasheed had a good year. He had a bad start. Sometimes kids think it's going to be a certain way, and, when it's not, how quickly you can adapt to the way it really is makes you a better player. He took a long time to adapt. When he did, he became a better player. There are different roles, different teammates. You have to learn how to play with the best players. It's the way it is. He and everyone will have to do that next year. The kid who has the most talent is Okafor. I mean, he's just a real special talent. That'll be a different guy because he's a low post presence...and a very good one. The guys coming in and here will have to learn how to play with him. That should be fun. As a junior, Rasheed should be one of our key guys. And how we adjust to playing with these guys....

QUESTION: ?? On moving the conference tournament up north
ANSWER: Times change. Half of our league are former Big East schools. We should pay attention to what everybody likes. I think it's a really good move because of all these teams. Look, Greensboro has been fabulous and will always be fabulous. But UL, Syracuse, Pitt, ND are not in North Carolina. This is the current history of the ACC. I'm glad we've looked at that. We're ALL joining a new ACC. It's going to be a pretty good game, too.

QUESTION: ?? Players reacting to new roles and teammates
ANSWER: You should react the way I want you to react. At the end of the day, you should do what your coach says. My parents used to tell me that. “It's our house, you live here. It's our rules.” If a payer doesn't react to that, that's a bad thing for that player. If anybody has a problem with that, they should step aside, because I'm not stepping aside. I have no agenda except to win. There's no kid, who's come to Duke, to whom I've promised anything. I have never promised someone is going to start or how many minutes they're going to play. In the locker room, I can look everyone in the eye and say you're all equal…not in talent but in opportunity. This is the way we're going to play. Use your talents. Listen to me. It's been a good formula. Going into the next 5 years, that's the way it's going to be

QUESTION: Andre Dawkins
ANSWER: First, I LOVE the fact that he came back and he beat the things that were beating him. He graduated from Duke. He's a good kid. He's a happy kid. He wishes he had hit 3 or 4 of his 3s against Mercer. I talked to him yesterday or the day before. I told him, "I'm okay with you missing shots against Mercer. To me, the important thing is that you’re here. That's the big thing.”

QUESTION: ??Program status and types of recruits
ANSWER: I'd rather be in the phase I'm in. I think Johnny...you know, he wouldn't mind coaching Jabari. I would like the guys we bring in to stay longer because you can make them better and they make you better and you develop a bigger bond. It just works out that way. We have a great opportunity to bring in great kids who are really good players, so we have to figure it out.

Also, with the culture that they're coming from... The culture in the last 5 years changed....the social media....there's a lot more out there, but it's all spread out. …How you get a team to feel things deeply during this time. I try to analyze myself and have my family and staff...we talk about...and motivation....I do a lot of corporate speaking in the last 25 years....job in motivation, talking to older people....with the US team, they're older, they're men. With the kids, I don't know if the things hit players the way they hit me. That's what I'm going to talk to players about when we review this postseason. [Again Coach K appears to reference players doing the things that are told and incorporating the coach’s philosophy, but I couldn’t capture the words fast enough] It is harder for them now to make that instant… A leader’s responsibility to adapt to the people he is with. That's one of the things I'm going to look at, too.

QUESTION: ?? Player fit and opportunity
ANSWER: There's room for everybody. I won't know completely until I start working with them. When you put XXXX on the court, it looks different….building your team. How does everything fit? One of the best things Quinn does is shoot. We didn't have consistency at the PG this year. That's how Tyler ended up playing so much this year. Even though he’s less talented than Rasheed or Quinn, he had the ability to lead. He did that better without the ball. He understood. He got it while the game was going on better than anyone on our team, so his value increased. You don't know that until you are on the court. Other things come into play. It goes around your key guy(s) and how you complement them.

When I'm coaching the US team, it doesn't center around Chris Paul, as great as he is, or Russell Westbrook. It's going to center around Lebron, Durant, and Kobe. And, how does it all fit in? They're older and they all adapt to that. The quicker they adapt and the quicker you know what you're going to do with your team….

For us, we were kind of in discovery throughout the year. Not great for a team, but it's what we had to do. Last year, we knew, so we could adjust with things…
“I thought we were doing that.”
“Well, we’re doing this now.”
…move to a different phase. The biggest thing was Ryan's injury. We had to hold on for some time and then make adjustments.

Me and the staff did okay but not a good job at figuring all that out this year.

QUESTION: What do you mean “up for grabs?”
ANSWER: A lot of people can win. Kids go to more places. More kids leave. It's spread out more. Greatest basketball I've ever seen in the ACC was in the 1980s. Wow. And, up until the mid-1990s. Then, things started changing, leveling. If you can get a couple great players to stay for a while, you've got a chance to…boom, boom, boom…do some damage. But, for the most part, that's not happening.

QUESTION: ?? (guessing as always, this time, though, I have no idea) Were the defensive problems secondary to lack of leadership
ANSWER: I wouldn't necessarily go there. It's important. Talk on defense, not just from a leadership standpoint, is huge. It is the lifeblood of defense. When we didn't play well defensively, we didn't talk well. Who are you talking to then? Yourself. Not aloud. You're thinking. For a team to play defense, you should think out loud about what your team is doing. Your body moves better and things flow better when you're talking. When we didn't play well, the single biggest thing was talk. When we hit periods where we were tired...that's a young team that can't be tired - you stop talking. It’s like when you are out running (huffs and puffs while miming that he doesn’t have air to talk). “Shut up! I want a breather.” When we were subbing a lot, it was to compensate for that. Best thing is to have best players out there all the time talking and functioning as one.

QUESTION: ?? Like to be part of planning with NBA?
ANSWER: Well, like a seat at what table? Adam’s great. And the NBA is great. I think the NBA would like to see college basketball even better. We're the lifeblood of what they do. The NBA Player's Union doesn't have a head yet. The agreement doesn't come up for a number of years unless something unusual happens. There's talk. The main talk has to be between the NBA and the Player's Union. I think it will be 20yo/2yrs when the time comes, and it will be good for everybody.

I don't think David was against it. For a number of years, they favored 2 years. But, the last collective bargaining agreement...they're talking mainly about money, so sometimes it never gets there...they have to be the ones to make that happen.

QUESTION: ?? 2014 dynamic between Coach K and players??
ANSWER: I just have an old watch. Where can you get a good band that doesn't break?
I don't know if we got on them more. We always have to get on. I may have been more demonstrative. That was me trying to get through. I needed to...it wasn't so much them. It was something that I needed to do. Maybe it wasn't as good. It was good for me, because it helped me get more in the moment of what I was doing.

Throughout the year, we were not a great team, but, when we got it right, we had a chance. And, there were a number of times when we got it right. The most critical time for the team this year was after Clemson. We responded well. I liked my team, I didn't like the way it ended. Before the Mercer game, one of our best games was here against Carolina. By the time we played Clemson in tournament, didn't play as well, but we played really well against State. One of our better games. Against UVA, who are really good, I think we got really tired. When you talk about games, we had a lead sometime in the second half. We couldn't find that extra push and the other guys did. That's on all of us. That's on all of us.

QUESTION: ?? Rodney as a transfer
ANSWER: In every way. I still think Rodney... I wish Rodney had less of a conscience when he played - that he was a little more selfish. But, he had an outstanding year. Tough last game. Outstanding year. Great kid to coach and has the chance to get a lot better...here or in the NBA.

QUESTION: ?? Re-evaluate tactics
ANSWER: Sure. And what we do defensively, we have to take a look at that. We also have to take a look at how we're teaching the main defense we play - different techniques, different ways. We’re already looking at that…and how we condition to play that defense. I flew to Ohio Monday for recruiting, and Steve & I were talking about that. We talked about the things we did for a number of years in conditioning that had everything to do with defensive stance and footwork. Some of those things we replaced with band work and more current things. I'm not sure we shouldn't go back.

When you get tired, you go back to you most dominant habit. If we have guys for short period of time, how can we teach that....that's on us, we can do a better job of that.

QUESTION: ?? (TOOOOOOTALLY guessing here) Talking about NC State’s resume for the tournament
ANSWER: I am from now on. I'm not going to do that anymore. I'm not going to do that again. I get all the stuff, and nobody has my back. It's funny to you, but you're not the one getting, "He's an idiot, he's low level." That’s not happening again. All I was saying was I love my conference. I thought all y'all are going to comment.

QUESTION: ?? (I give up)
ANSWER: Carrying THAT banner? You mean, if we're playing? Oh, that? I'm okay carrying that banner. I know THOSE guys are with me

UVA. Big game in Sweet 16 against MSU. Two veteran teams. Unbelievably coached. Those two teams could really win it. As a coach, if someone is doing something well, I like it. I look at what Tony has done. He's really blended his team. They've had no interruptions. It's like a machine. To keep them getting better with no interruptions, such as getting bored or jealous, is pretty good.
Tom has an amazing team with lots of interruptions. Can he get them functioning like a machine? They look pretty good.
Those are two different things. When we won in 1992, we were an amazing team. One of the best ever. I did no preseason work, pretty much started coaching them hard at Christmas, and they're beating everybody by 20-25 points. And we still win the Championship. Hurley and Hill both hurt. We were like MSU, trying to put it together. That's what I see in that game.

I wish Louisville vs UK was not Sweet 16 game. Those teams are real talented. To be in same region....let those guys talk about that. They WILL have people behind them if THEY say anything.

I AM looking forward to coaching US in World Cup this year. We qualified. We won the last one. All of you are invited out. We have a week of training the last week in July...like a blue/white game. Then, we take a week, off, go to Chicago, train, go to NY, train, Canary Islands, Spain. It won’t be over until mid-September.

CameronBornAndBred
03-26-2014, 02:48 PM
Thanks tons, Bedeviled, and totally enjoyed your question marks, lol. Sometimes those reporters might as well be Peanuts parents, I have no idea what they are saying. One day Duke might figure out a way to get them a decent mic.

gumbomoop
03-26-2014, 02:51 PM
AAU reform!? Bring it on.

Seems like every forced shot, unnecessary spin move and loafing defense is a product of AAU ball. These kids travel more in high school than they do at high-major colleges. Maybe that should get shelved in favor of more local camps and actual work on fundamentals.

Super "Dreaming" Dave

I'm easily persuaded that AAU ball doesn't emphasize fundamentals. Neither does the ESPN-highlights-ization of the game, which rarely - ever?? - show anything other than dunks, esp thunder-dumbs, and 3-bombs. I guess maybe the occasional nifty pass.


I've never heard K be this candid before.

On some thread - I think in the past several months - Krzyzewski was quoted as saying, re critiquing a player's game: "It's not personal. It's the truth."

The comments re leadership summarized by several posters [many thanks to all of you] are pretty candid re needing leadership from starters. Similarly re communication.

The staff will have seen far more than I, so they will have seen ball-watching, poor blocking out, late or non-existent weak side help, etc. How fully will the returnees and new guys commit to relentless D? Constant talking? Can instincts be taught? Cultivated?

Would be fascinating to hear the staff's truth-telling in prep for and all during next season, presumably a focused, redemption-seeking season. Might cause me to wince sometimes. One thing for me to cuss during a dumb play, especially involving a fundamental. Quite another to hear the truth from Krzyzewski, cuss or no.

Billy Dat
03-26-2014, 03:31 PM
Thanks for the transcription, beDeviled!!!!!!!!! I grant you more sporks than sit in KFC dispensers.

Fantastic press conference. Huge kudos to K for sensing the collective unrest of the fan base and addressing it head on. He mentioned, or answered questions, about pretty much every issue we've been talking about on these boards. It made me feel a lot better.

It also gets my blood pumping to hear him talk about how the team will be built around Okafor. Get him the ball, Tyus!

dukelifer
03-26-2014, 03:42 PM
Red shirt Ryan Kelly his Freshman year. Yes- that would have been a really good decision. Of course you never know what might have happened. Still if he was here this year- Duke would likely still be playing.

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 03:45 PM
Red shirt Ryan Kelly his Freshman year. Yes- that would have been a really good decision. Of course you never know what might have happened. Still if he was here this year- Duke would likely still be playing.

Crazy that the most unathletic guy on the court would have provided leadership, defense, and stability. Wow. Ryan Kelly...who would have thought...man I miss that dude.

Kedsy
03-26-2014, 03:47 PM
Thanks tons, Bedeviled, and totally enjoyed your question marks, lol. Sometimes those reporters might as well be Peanuts parents, I have no idea what they are saying. One day Duke might figure out a way to get them a decent mic.

Yes, thanks so much, Bedeviled, for transcribing that. I didn't view the press conference but I was thrilled to have a transcript to read.

InSpades
03-26-2014, 03:50 PM
Red shirt Ryan Kelly his Freshman year. Yes- that would have been a really good decision. Of course you never know what might have happened. Still if he was here this year- Duke would likely still be playing.

Things seemed to have worked out well for Ryan. For a guy who was not a "sure thing" NBA-wise he's getting a great opportunity with the Lakers. He could have very easily ended up in a spot where he wasn't given the chance to shine. I think if Ryan had a chance to do it all again... he probably wouldn't change much besides the injuries.

MCFinARL
03-26-2014, 03:53 PM
I'm easily persuaded that AAU ball doesn't emphasize fundamentals. Neither does the ESPN-highlights-ization of the game, which rarely - ever?? - show anything other than dunks, esp thunder-dumbs, and 3-bombs. I guess maybe the occasional nifty pass.



On some thread - I think in the past several months - Krzyzewski was quoted as saying, re critiquing a player's game: "It's not personal. It's the truth."

The comments re leadership summarized by several posters [many thanks to all of you] are pretty candid re needing leadership from starters. Similarly re communication.

The staff will have seen far more than I, so they will have seen ball-watching, poor blocking out, late or non-existent weak side help, etc. How fully will the returnees and new guys commit to relentless D? Constant talking? Can instincts be taught? Cultivated?

Would be fascinating to hear the staff's truth-telling in prep for and all during next season, presumably a focused, redemption-seeking season. Might cause me to wince sometimes. One thing for me to cuss during a dumb play, especially involving a fundamental. Quite another to hear the truth from Krzyzewski, cuss or no.

Obviously important questions. Two relevant points from K's remarks:

1) his suggestion that they will reevaluate conditioning drills to see if the move toward more band work in recent years might have reduced emphasis on remaining in a defensive stance for a long time and the on the type of conditioning that helps with that. Not sure it would be right to say he said instincts, as such, can be taught, but he did say that when you are tired you revert to what is most familiar/comfortable, so relentless defensive drills, and relentless emphasis on talking, might make a difference.

2) his emphasis on talking, talking, talking. Seems clear this is something the coaches wanted more of this year, asked for more of, and did not get. Part of that, K suggested, goes back to the question of leadership on the floor, and part of it goes back to more effectively training the players to do this without needing to think about it. Someone mentioned on another thread seeing a couple of times where Duke players got hammered by picks that no one had called out for them, presumably because they were more focused on what they were doing individually than on what was happening with the team and the opponent. Some of that probably does operate on a level of instinct that is untrainable, and some of it likely stems from the same lack of team unity on the court for which we have myriad possible explanations. But I'm sure it will continue to be a point of emphasis, and I am guessing that next year the staff will be trying new ways to inculcate that impulse to talk on the court.

roywhite
03-26-2014, 03:54 PM
Thanks for the transcription, beDeviled!!!!!!!!! I grant you more sporks than sit in KFC dispensers.

Fantastic press conference. Huge kudos to K for sensing the collective unrest of the fan base and addressing it head on. He mentioned, or answered questions, about pretty much every issue we've been talking about on these boards. It made me feel a lot better.

It also gets my blood pumping to hear him talk about how the team will be built around Okafor. Get him the ball, Tyus!

+1 as they say.

Thanks for the transcription, and so glad to hear from Coach K in such a forthright manner.
He is the best.

rsvman
03-26-2014, 04:00 PM
I noticed that he praised the UVA team and their coach.

I would be EXTREMELY happy if he would consider emulating a bit of their defensive philosophy. I worry about the comments about conditioning, training, and talking in order to properly perform the current defensive scheme; I think it would be better to alter the scheme.

I say this because unless the referees drastically alter the way they are calling the games, the old Duke scheme, even if performed to near perfection by a highly conditioned, coordinated, talking group of athletes, is likely to land us in foul trouble. And I really think that foul trouble was one of the more important reasons for our late-game swoons in several of our losses. Foul trouble equals less aggressive defense; less aggressive defense equals easier scoring opportunities for the opponents and very high shooting percentages, which equals loss of a lead late in the game.

Other than that, there was a lot to be happy about in his comments.


Oh, and by the way, the second to last question was probably about Coach K's comments regarding how the A-10 got more teams into the tournament than ACC teams.

Henderson
03-26-2014, 04:22 PM
+1 as they say.

Thanks for the transcription, and so glad to hear from Coach K in such a forthright manner.
He is the best.

K seemed very introspective. I watched the whole hour-long presser, and I think the two themes were: (A) Despite a couple of personal issues at the end of this year, he intends to be at Duke for at least the next 5 (as in, "hear that recruits?"); and (B) the importance of on-court leadership, preferably by really good players. And I think he was trying to move the ball with the NBA and (more importantly) the Players Association on eligibility. Subsidiary themes:

1. One-and-done makes the cultivation of leaders tough, but he can deal with it. 2-and-20 would be better. But the NBA and Players Association need to work that out. Interestingly, he said he thought a new rule would be good for basketball and that the players would see that, but they are without permanent Association leadership right now. [They have an Acting Executive Director right now, the previous one having been fired and who is suing the Association for wrongful discharge -- not mentioned by K]

2. Duke's best teams were the ones that had great upper class leadership. He singled out Hurley, Laettner, and Battier specifically. Oh and Zoubs his senior year.

3. On court leadership will be a focus for next year. He thinks he needs to be better at inculcating that.

4. "Lesser" teams have an advantage in keeping players longer. He didn't make any excuses for the Mercer loss, but he did point out that one of the big men for Mercer (I forget which one) was going to be 25 soon.

5. He loves his 13 year old grandson. He said at the beginning that he was holding the presser to do something special for his grandson's birthday, so that's how he started and ended the presser. Leadership as character.

6. Oh, and his health is fine, so please no rumors about the Wake episode. He talked about the 5 years going forward and said he is thinking about how to succeed over that period, intending to be there.

He did kind of ramble (the transcript above generously cleaned that up a LOT), and complete sentences were few, but that read "unscripted" to me. And he got his primary points across: His health (fine), leadership (important and a point of emphasis next year), and his grandson (whom he loves even without a bar mitzvah).

dukelifer
03-26-2014, 04:23 PM
Things seemed to have worked out well for Ryan. For a guy who was not a "sure thing" NBA-wise he's getting a great opportunity with the Lakers. He could have very easily ended up in a spot where he wasn't given the chance to shine. I think if Ryan had a chance to do it all again... he probably wouldn't change much besides the injuries.

Ryan did great and has shown he can be a solid role player in the NBA. Of course we could also dream that senior Kyrie and junior Austin Rivers would be joining Jabari, Hood and grad student Ryan Kelly on the court as well.

-jk
03-26-2014, 04:25 PM
I noticed that he praised the UVA team and their coach.

I would be EXTREMELY happy if he would consider emulating a bit of their defensive philosophy. I worry about the comments about conditioning, training, and talking in order to properly perform the current defensive scheme; I think it would be better to alter the scheme.

I say this because unless the referees drastically alter the way they are calling the games, the old Duke scheme, even if performed to near perfection by a highly conditioned, coordinated, talking group of athletes, is likely to land us in foul trouble. And I really think that foul trouble was one of the more important reasons for our late-game swoons in several of our losses. Foul trouble equals less aggressive defense; less aggressive defense equals easier scoring opportunities for the opponents and very high shooting percentages, which equals loss of a lead late in the game.

Other than that, there was a lot to be happy about in his comments.


Oh, and by the way, the second to last question was probably about Coach K's comments regarding how the A-10 got more teams into the tournament than ACC teams.

We fouled a lot because we were in bad defensive position and recovered late. If you go back to the 80s, we played aggressive man defense, with the game called much tighter than this year. It can be done.

-jk

Billy Dat
03-26-2014, 04:25 PM
I noticed that he praised the UVA team and their coach.

I would be EXTREMELY happy if he would consider emulating a bit of their defensive philosophy. I worry about the comments about conditioning, training, and talking in order to properly perform the current defensive scheme; I think it would be better to alter the scheme.

I say this because unless the referees drastically alter the way they are calling the games, the old Duke scheme, even if performed to near perfection by a highly conditioned, coordinated, talking group of athletes, is likely to land us in foul trouble. And I really think that foul trouble was one of the more important reasons for our late-game swoons in several of our losses. Foul trouble equals less aggressive defense; less aggressive defense equals easier scoring opportunities for the opponents and very high shooting percentages, which equals loss of a lead late in the game.

Other than that, there was a lot to be happy about in his comments.


Oh, and by the way, the second to last question was probably about Coach K's comments regarding how the A-10 got more teams into the tournament than ACC teams.

Watching Stanford mixing up their defenses with zone coverages made me wish for K to expand his defensive horizons. You are right that he gave small voice to looking at the big picture and focused more on how they teach their current defense - but at least they are looking at it. I mean, we are going to have an enormous big body near the rim next year, that alone should alter our approach.
Still, after watching teams befuddle us with zones, and how well Roy mixed up his coverages against us with zone and man, I wish we'd add more of these wrinkles to what we do. That may be asking too much.

It was interesting how much he talked about the influence of social media and how he needs to examine how he communicates with these kids. The fact that he is aware that what plays in corporate boardrooms and with NBA players might not play with 18-22 year olds was very honest. It was also very honest for him to say, "I need to adapt my style to these kids, but it most important for them to listen to what I say and not question it". I wonder how much of that questioning is going on...probably quite a bit if he is bringing it up!

jv001
03-26-2014, 04:36 PM
Watching Stanford mixing up their defenses with zone coverages made me wish for K to expand his defensive horizons. You are right that he gave small voice to looking at the big picture and focused more on how they teach their current defense - but at least they are looking at it. I mean, we are going to have an enormous big body near the rim next year, that alone should alter our approach.
Still, after watching teams befuddle us with zones, and how well Roy mixed up his coverages against us with zone and man, I wish we'd add more of these wrinkles to what we do. That may be asking too much.

It was interesting how much he talked about the influence of social media and how he needs to examine how he communicates with these kids. The fact that he is aware that what plays in corporate boardrooms and with NBA players might not play with 18-22 year olds was very honest. It was also very honest for him to say, "I need to adapt my style to these kids, but it most important for them to listen to what I say and not question it". I wonder how much of that questioning is going on...probably quite a bit if he is bringing it up!

You and I are on the same page with the implementation of some zone, especially with Okafor and MPII in the middle. Then you throw in Amile, Rasheed and Justise that's good size for zone defenders. GoDuke!

Kedsy
03-26-2014, 04:42 PM
I noticed that he praised the UVA team and their coach.

I would be EXTREMELY happy if he would consider emulating a bit of their defensive philosophy.

Don't count on it. I could see tweaking the principles of his man defense, but anyone who thinks he might go primarily to packline (and frankly, you can't go to packline as an occasional gimmick; it would have to be primary) or zone or anything like that is simply dreaming.

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 04:44 PM
Don't count on it. I could see tweaking the principles of his man defense, but anyone who thinks he might go primarily to packline (and frankly, you can't go to packline as an occasional gimmick; it would have to be primary) or zone or anything like that is simply dreaming.

Also, changing your defensive system is step 31. Step 1 is getting your team to first play defense...

Troublemaker
03-26-2014, 04:44 PM
Thanks for the transcript, bedeviled! Just wanted to pitch in a bit. In the quote you transcribed below...

"There's room for everybody. I won't know completely until I start working with them. When you put XXXX on the court, it looks different….building your team. How does everything fit?"

... the "XXXX" spoken of by Coach K was "Jah" as in Jahlil. The (tentative) plan is to build around Jahlil next season. We probably suspected that anyway, but we usually get confirmation of these things in October, not late March.

CDu
03-26-2014, 04:54 PM
I think the most interesting thing in that presser was the bit about redshirting Ryan Kelly. And he's totally correct. A senior year Kelly makes this team even more interesting than they already were. I'm not sure that he would have solved the problems with defense, but he would have helped, and he would have made our offense that much more dynamic (with Jefferson as the third big). Oh well. What might have been...

Other than that, I didn't really hear anything that jumped out at me. Talked about being here for at least 5 years (newsflash: for recruiting reasons, no coach is going to say "I only have another 2 or 3 years in me"). Talked about revisiting leadership and revisiting conditioning and revisiting how they approach defense. Not much insightful info in that, other than the obvious. Of course, I wouldn't have expected him to say anything too deep (no reason to give away trade secrets).

Tripping William
03-26-2014, 05:03 PM
It was also very honest for him to say, "I need to adapt my style to these kids, but it most important for them to listen to what I say and not question it". I wonder how much of that questioning is going on...probably quite a bit if he is bringing it up!

Makes me wonder if he had to give this speech: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/2410284

SoCalDukeFan
03-26-2014, 05:09 PM
I think the most interesting thing in that presser was the bit about redshirting Ryan Kelly. And he's totally correct. A senior year Kelly makes this team even more interesting than they already were. I'm not sure that he would have solved the problems with defense, but he would have helped, and he would have made our offense that much more dynamic (with Jefferson as the third big). Oh well. What might have been...

Other than that, I didn't really hear anything that jumped out at me. Talked about being here for at least 5 years (newsflash: for recruiting reasons, no coach is going to say "I only have another 2 or 3 years in me"). Talked about revisiting leadership and revisiting conditioning and revisiting how they approach defense. Not much insightful info in that, other than the obvious. Of course, I wouldn't have expected him to say anything too deep (no reason to give away trade secrets).

OK add Ryan to the team. Ryan plays like 30 minutes a game. Whose drop.

I think Duke is blessed to have Coach K. I assume he thinks Ryan would have provided leadership, no problem with that. However after losing to Mercer in the NCAA first round with Parker, Hood et al it seems a little ridiculous to say we needed a guy from the Lakers.

SoCal

dukelifer
03-26-2014, 05:15 PM
OK add Ryan to the team. Ryan plays like 30 minutes a game. Whose drop.

I think Duke is blessed to have Coach K. I assume he thinks Ryan would have provided leadership, no problem with that. However after losing to Mercer in the NCAA first round with Parker, Hood et al it seems a little ridiculous to say we needed a guy from the Lakers.

SoCal

Probably Amile but he may not have come anyway. Who knows how it would have played out- put leadership is a big deal

-jk
03-26-2014, 05:16 PM
OK add Ryan to the team. Ryan plays like 30 minutes a game. Whose drop.

I think Duke is blessed to have Coach K. I assume he thinks Ryan would have provided leadership, no problem with that. However after losing to Mercer in the NCAA first round with Parker, Hood et al it seems a little ridiculous to say we needed a guy from the Lakers.

SoCal

Not just some vague "leadership", Ryan communicated on the floor like no one we had this year. He directed the team on both offense and defense last year. He also know how to rotate on D. He would've made a huge difference.

-jk

Troublemaker
03-26-2014, 05:16 PM
I think the most interesting thing in that presser was the bit about redshirting Ryan Kelly.

Yeah, and he talked about it in the context of evaluating the previous 5-year period and what he would've done differently. I wonder if this signals that he'll use the redshirt option more liberally going forward. If maintaining team continuity is an issue during the 1-and-done era (soon to be 2-and-done era), it probably helps to turn a few 4-yr-players into 5-yr-players.



Other than that, I didn't really hear anything that jumped out at me.

Well, what jumped out at me was that this press conference happened at all. I can't recall him ever doing something like this after a season. If one knew that this type of presser was coming, then I agree that it consisted of something like 15 "pretty interesting" things and nothing "earth shattering." I didn't know this was coming, though. When I heard about it, I thought it might've been an announcement that Rodney had decided to go, Jabari was still undecided and a plea to give their families some space to make the decision, something like that. I didn't know he was going to launch into an hour-long introspection on the past 15 years, 5 years, and 1 year that touched upon a lot of things we've been discussing on this forum.

Troublemaker
03-26-2014, 05:20 PM
Not just some vague "leadership", Ryan communicated on the floor like no one we had this year. He directed the team on both offense and defense last year. He also know how to rotate on D. He would've made a huge difference.

-jk

Yeah, we would've been the favorites to cut down the nets with Ryan, imo. A very interesting "what if" from Coach K.

Henderson
03-26-2014, 05:24 PM
I think the most interesting thing in that presser was the bit about redshirting Ryan Kelly. And he's totally correct. A senior year Kelly makes this team even more interesting than they already were. I'm not sure that he would have solved the problems with defense, but he would have helped, and he would have made our offense that much more dynamic (with Jefferson as the third big). Oh well. What might have been....

Agreed that a senior Kelly this year would have been huge. But K also said in the presser that he thought last year's team really had a chance to go all the way. One of only a few he's had that didn't. And he mentioned Kelly, Curry, and Mason specifically as the reasons. If Kelly had redshirted, no chance for Duke last year. Better chance for this year in hindsight.

So yes, in hindsight it would have been great for this year. But K himself said today he thought they had a good shot last year with Kelly playing.

Or do you think he was talking today about redshirting Kelly earlier than last year? He did say that Kelly as a freshman was talented but not really ready to play at a high level. But looking back that far is an opportunity for some pretty good hindsight.

P.S. When talking about Semi, let's remember that K thought Ryan Kelly, now playing for the Lakers, really needed a lot of work as a freshman even though he got PT.

Duvall
03-26-2014, 05:27 PM
Agreed that a senior Kelly this year would have been huge. But K also said in the presser that he thought last year's team really had a chance to go all the way. One of only a few he's had that didn't. And he mentioned Kelly, Curry, and Mason specifically as the reasons. If Kelly had redshirted, no chance for Duke last year. Better chance for this year in hindsight.

So yes, in hindsight it would have been great for this year. But K himself said today he thought they had a good shot last year with Kelly playing.

Or do you think he was talking today about redshirting Kelly earlier than last year?

I'm assuming he meant redshirting Kelly in 2010, when he played 227 minutes on the season.

GGLC
03-26-2014, 05:44 PM
Yeah, I wonder whether, in a similar vein, K will come to regret not redshirting Semi this year, since he played a total of 80 minutes all season.

Billy Dat
03-26-2014, 05:44 PM
Well, what jumped out at me was that this press conference happened at all. I can't recall him ever doing something like this after a season. If one knew that this type of presser was coming, then I agree that it consisted of something like 15 "pretty interesting" things and nothing "earth shattering." I didn't know this was coming, though. When I heard about it, I thought it might've been an announcement that Rodney had decided to go, Jabari was still undecided and a plea to give their families some space to make the decision, something like that. I didn't know he was going to launch into an hour-long introspection on the past 15 years, 5 years, and 1 year that touched upon a lot of things we've been discussing on this forum.

I agree, it is very unusual that he is so unguarded, candid, and reflective. He sensed that people needed to hear this stuff from him and he was right. On Twitter, Luke DeCock said he hung around and talked to the reporters about Marcus Paige and TJ Warren for another 15-20 minutes. During the season, he winds himself up so much in preparation for battle that I don't think he's capable of expanding like this - he's always focused on whatever is directly in front of him.

CDu
03-26-2014, 05:55 PM
OK add Ryan to the team. Ryan plays like 30 minutes a game. Whose drop.

I think Duke is blessed to have Coach K. I assume he thinks Ryan would have provided leadership, no problem with that. However after losing to Mercer in the NCAA first round with Parker, Hood et al it seems a little ridiculous to say we needed a guy from the Lakers.

SoCal

Plumlee, Hairston, Jefferson, and Ojeleye combined for 1,447 minutes this season in our 35 games (41.34 mpg). Moreover, we played Hood at PF for about 8.46 mpg (our guards/wings played 128.46 mpg this season, not counting Ojeleye/Jefferson/Parker).

So there were about 49.8 mpg available at PF/C to be shared by Kelly and Jefferson. Kelly gets his 30 and Jefferson gets about 15-20. The guys who suffer in that scenario are Plumlee, Hairston, Ojeleye, and Jones/Dawkins, who would have been relegated to end-of-game minutes. And of course Jefferson goes from being a starter to being a reserve.


Agreed that a senior Kelly this year would have been huge. But K also said in the presser that he thought last year's team really had a chance to go all the way. One of only a few he's had that didn't. And he mentioned Kelly, Curry, and Mason specifically as the reasons. If Kelly had redshirted, no chance for Duke last year. Better chance for this year in hindsight.

So yes, in hindsight it would have been great for this year. But K himself said today he thought they had a good shot last year with Kelly playing.

Or do you think he was talking today about redshirting Kelly earlier than last year? He did say that Kelly as a freshman was talented but not really ready to play at a high level. But looking back that far is an opportunity for some pretty good hindsight.

P.S. When talking about Semi, let's remember that K thought Ryan Kelly, now playing for the Lakers, really needed a lot of work as a freshman even though he got PT.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Kelly redshirting in 2010, when we had 4 other big men and he wasn't ready to play in the post. Note that, since then, we've redshirted two players.

tommy
03-26-2014, 06:26 PM
Some things mentioned by Coach K. 1) 5 more years 2) Playing 80 or so games AAU ball doesn't develop leaders. More about individual play than winning. 3) Leadership missing this season. Going to work on that. Said leaders need to be starters(30 min ppg). He said that Tyus is an outstanding leader.4) Lack of consistency at point guard this season. Said Quinn's best talent is shooting. 5) Going to look at defensive techniques and defensive conditioning off season. Said he and Wojo discussed it on the Ohio recruiting trip. He said that talking is the life blood for playing good defense and that the team didn't do it when they got tired. 6) He said that 2nd half leads evaporating came from not being able to give that extra push, but the other team did give it the extra push. Coach was candid and it seemed to me that next years team will be in better condition. He also gave a great compliment to Zoubs for being a great senior leader in 2010. I'm looking forward to next season already. GoDuke!


Yeah, when I mused on the Coaching thread the other day about the negative impact of the AAU culture on the kids' prioritization of winning, and doing all the things necessary to win, I was shouted down by a couple of posters who accused me of being "insulting" to the players. Interesting that K is concerned about similar and related manifestations of the AAU culture. I do find the additional lengths to which he took it -- the impact of the AAU culture on the development of leadership skills -- to be insightful and thought-provoking as well.

Lauderdevil
03-26-2014, 06:38 PM
Of course we could also dream that senior Kyrie and junior Austin Rivers would be joining Jabari, Hood and grad student Ryan Kelly on the court as well.

This is what John Wooden had when he won his championships in the late 1960s and early 1970s: Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton, Gail Goodrich et al were all four-year guys (though they couldn't play varsity as freshmen) -- unthinkable now. It's part of what Coach K is talking about when he describes the changed landscape. A team with Kyrie, Austin, Jabari, Rodney -- I mean, is there any doubt it would be the odds-on favorite to win multiple championships? When people say Wooden will never be equalled, this is why.

Duvall
03-26-2014, 06:42 PM
This is what John Wooden had when he won his championships in the late 1960s and early 1970s: Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton, Gail Goodrich et al were all four-year guys (though they couldn't play varsity as freshmen) -- unthinkable now. It's part of what Coach K is talking about when he describes the changed landscape. A team with Kyrie, Austin, Jabari, Rodney -- I mean, is there any doubt it would be the odds-on favorite to win multiple championships?

Well I imagine the Kentucky team would be pretty good as well.

weezie
03-26-2014, 07:12 PM
....I think K is going to let the rest of the conference take care of itself for awhile.

Good for him. I'm not an ACC homer but I know lots of you folks are. It's Duke, Duke and Duke for me and blah to the rest.

In other news, here's a fun article, it rehashes a lot of stuff but there are some juicy nuggets in there that made me happy:

https://medium.com/p/949cf42e095d

Including this gem: 'And when all else fails, they lean on the simplest, most infuriating form of trash talk: the score. Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.' ”

MaxAMillion
03-26-2014, 07:14 PM
I love listening to Coach K's press conferences. I always feel like I learn something. I like how K mentioned that Rasheed had a good year but a bad start because some times kids think things will be a certain way and it is not that way. Rasheed had to adapt and did so as the year went on.
I also think Coach K looked healthier for some reason.

There are a lot of fans who won't truly understand K's impact on this program until he leaves. I live in the DC area and Maryland fans swore things would be great once Gary Williams left because Gary didn't recruit well enough and he had become to old for the position. Well the realization has sunk in that Gary Williams was a hell of a coach. He was a Maryland grad who took over a team on major probation and eventually led them to a national title. That should have been enough for Maryland fans. They got to learn a lesson the hard way and I am thrilled about it. Their fans are as obnoxious as it gets.

Henderson
03-26-2014, 07:42 PM
This is what John Wooden had when he won his championships in the late 1960s and early 1970s: Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton, Gail Goodrich et al were all four-year guys (though they couldn't play varsity as freshmen) -- unthinkable now. It's part of what Coach K is talking about when he describes the changed landscape. A team with Kyrie, Austin, Jabari, Rodney -- I mean, is there any doubt it would be the odds-on favorite to win multiple championships? When people say Wooden will never be equalled, this is why.

But if all our guys were 4 year guys, everyone else's guys would be 4 year guys. It's not like we'd have Kyrie, Austin (hmm), Jabari, and Rodney and the rest of the country would lose their best underclassmen to the draft. And Wooden's opponents all had their guys for 4 years too (disregarding the freshman eligibility rule). Wash.

roywhite
03-26-2014, 08:09 PM
Agreed that was very informative and impressive

It seemed to K is chapped about taking all the heat for his comparison of the A-10 and ACC. He thanked (not sarcastically) a reporter for bringing it up and and said nobody (which I took to mean other ACC coaches) had his back.

K said he will not be doing that again. With the "everything will be evaluated" theme of the presser I think K is going to let the rest of the conference take care of itself for awhile.

Yeah, can't blame K for being ticked about nobody else speaking up for the ACC; here he is talking up the conference and making bold statements about ACC vs A-10, etc. and he gets NOBODY in the conference to endorse that notion. Are these other coaches asleep or just hostile towards K?



But if all our guys were 4 year guys, everyone else's guys would be 4 year guys. It's not like we'd have Kyrie, Austin (hmm), Jabari, and Rodney and the rest of the country would lose their best underclassmen to the draft. And Wooden's opponents all had their guys for 4 years too (disregarding the freshman eligibility rule). Wash.

On the 4-year guys....yeah, everybody might have them, but it would be our 4-year players vs Mercer's 4-year players or whatever. What's changed since our run in the late 80's and early 90's is how difficult it is to get out of the first weekend in the NCAA Tournament. We now run into decent teams in our first or second games and we're going against their upperclassmen with our team minus the best players who have already gone pro. Early NBA entry hurts how many teams? -- maybe 8 or 10, but the rest of the field then has a much better chance vs those 8 or 10 teams.

Cameron
03-26-2014, 08:15 PM
I was glad to hear K declare with specificity that he plans to remain at Duke for a long time (at 67, I consider a five-year "commitment" a long time). Of course, as others have cautioned, part of a declaration of that nature is designed to reassure recruits that the coach recruiting them will still be around while they are playing there. Life is unpredictable, though, and things do change.

With that in mind, I would not be surprised by any measure to see K coach into his late seventies and maybe even into his eighties. Guys like K and Joe Paterno are cut from the same cloth. This is what they do, and -- aside from family, of course -- what they live for. As Dean Smith showed us, not all coaches, even the greats, want or desire to coach forever. Some are just ready to walk away. I don't get that impression from K at all, especially given his commitment last year to lead USA Basketball through 2016. K is in great health and looks at least six or seven years younger than he really is, so it's certainly not out of the realm of possibility that he could be stalking ACC sidelines for another decade or more. These are just my thoughts, based on nothing really. I've just always felt that way.

Also pleased to hear K speak about his plans for Quinn next year and utilizing him as more of a shooter, rather than his classic role as point guard. As I contended throughout the season, Quinn is more of a natural scorer than a facilitator, and could prove an invaluable asset as a spot-up guy off the bench to help space the floor and provide quick points. Such a move would also work to take the ball out of Quinn's hands as the pilot of our offense in transition, which is when his shot selection seems to be at its wildest (e.g. ill-advised 22-foot pull-ups). When catching and shooting on the wing within the flow of the offense, Quinn is quite effective from long distance.

Henderson
03-26-2014, 08:20 PM
Yeah, can't blame K for being ticked about nobody else speaking up for the ACC; here he is talking up the conference and making bold statements about ACC vs A-10, etc. and he gets NOBODY in the conference to endorse that notion. Are these other coaches asleep or just hostile towards K?

Their best explanation is that of Verbal Kint: "Because I was scared."


On the 4-year guys....yeah, everybody might have them, but it would be our 4-year players vs Mercer's 4-year players or whatever. What's changed since our run in the late 80's and early 90's is how difficult it is to get out of the first weekend in the NCAA Tournament. We now run into decent teams in our first or second games and we're going against their upperclassmen with our team minus the best players who have already gone pro. Early NBA entry hurts how many teams? -- maybe 8 or 10, but the rest of the field then has a much better chance vs those 8 or 10 teams.

That's a pretty good point. But maybe a Kyrie Irving doesn't come to Duke but for the exposure that would take him quickly to the next level. Maybe instead he goes to Boston University, where his father played. Moving variables result in all sorts of difficult-to-predict outcomes.

CDu
03-26-2014, 08:25 PM
Also pleased to hear K speak about his plans for Quinn next year and utilizing him as more of a shooter, rather than his classic role as point guard. As I contended throughout the season, Quinn is more of a natural scorer than a facilitator, and could prove an invaluable asset as a spot-up guy off the bench to help space the floor and provide quick points. Such a move would also work to take the ball out of Quinn's hands as the pilot of our offense in transition, which is when his shot selection seems to be at its wildest (e.g. ill-advised 22-foot pull-ups). When catching and shooting on the wing within the flow of the offense, Quinn is quite effective from long distance.

Cook is such a strange case. There are times when he looks like a maestro at PG. But then he goes for games and games where he just looks like he's never run an offense before. Unfortunately, it has seemed like his best PG moments have come in November/December, and when ACC and NCAA play come he becomes less and less of a playmaking PG.

Hopefully the addition of Jones will take the pressure off of Cook. I still think he can be an effective playmaker. But maybe the burden of being the primary playmaker doesn't suit him? I don't know. I'm just hopeful that a Jones/Cook/Sulaimon trio can work magic next year as essentially a 3-man rotation at PG/SG. If Jones is as good as advertised and if Cook and Sulaimon can step up to All-ACC play, we may just be dynamite.

roywhite
03-26-2014, 08:37 PM
Cook is such a strange case. There are times when he looks like a maestro at PG. But then he goes for games and games where he just looks like he's never run an offense before. Unfortunately, it has seemed like his best PG moments have come in November/December, and when ACC and NCAA play come he becomes less and less of a playmaking PG.

Hopefully the addition of Jones will take the pressure off of Cook. I still think he can be an effective playmaker. But maybe the burden of being the primary playmaker doesn't suit him? I don't know. I'm just hopeful that a Jones/Cook/Sulaimon trio can work magic next year as essentially a 3-man rotation at PG/SG. If Jones is as good as advertised and if Cook and Sulaimon can step up to All-ACC play, we may just be dynamite.

Yes, Cook can be a very important contributor, but I don't see how all three of those things (Jones as good as advertised and Cook and Sulaimon stepping up to All-ACC play) can happen. If Jones is as good as advertised, he becomes the primary PG; personally, I hope that comes to pass, and it would mean a very effective pass-first PG who gets other people involved. But that wouldn't leave enough minutes for BOTH Cook and Sulaimon to play at an All-ACC level. My wish list has Tyus Jones as the primary PG, Sulaimon as the primary SG (yet also able to run the point from time to time or rack up assists as well as points) and Cook coming off the bench, mostly as a shooter. Would all three be on the floor at the same time? At some points, yes, but not often; I'd lean more toward Winslow at SF, perhaps some minutes for Ojeleye. Need the defense and rebounding at that position.

How would Cook adjust to that role? After the disappointing ending to the season, I'd like to think he will see the big picture of winning and embrace such a role, but it's no sure thing.

CDu
03-26-2014, 08:46 PM
Yes, Cook can be a very important contributor, but I don't see how all three of those things (Jones as good as advertised and Cook and Sulaimon stepping up to All-ACC play) can happen. If Jones is as good as advertised, he becomes the primary PG; personally, I hope that comes to pass, and it would mean a very effective pass-first PG who gets other people involved. But that wouldn't leave enough minutes for BOTH Cook and Sulaimon to play at an All-ACC level. My wish list has Tyus Jones as the primary PG, Sulaimon as the primary SG (yet also able to run the point from time to time or rack up assists as well as points) and Cook coming off the bench, mostly as a shooter. Would all three be on the floor at the same time? At some points, yes, but not often; I'd lean more toward Winslow at SF, perhaps some minutes for Ojeleye. Need the defense and rebounding at that position.

How would Cook adjust to that role? After the disappointing ending to the season, I'd like to think he will see the big picture of winning and embrace such a role, but it's no sure thing.

I could easily see a scenario in which all three average 28-30 mpg. Even at 30 mpg each, that only spills over into the SF spot 10 mpg. Now, maybe the breakdown is more like 32, 30, 26. But even that is enough time to exhibit All-ACC caliber play.

Do I expect all 3 to get All-ACC? Maybe, maybe not. In the expanded conference it would be tough to get 4 guys on All-ACC lists. But I am more concerned with all three playing at that level, not so much as with whether or not they get honored.

ncexnyc
03-26-2014, 08:49 PM
Since the loss to Mercer there have been a number of snarky responses, that went along the lines of, "I'm sure Coach K. will be reading what we have to say here on the board for input into next season." WOW, what a shock to hear the man himself address many of the same concerns that were expressed by a number of people on this board.

One and dones, defensive schemes, AAU circuit, you name it and we had threads about it the past few days. Maybe Coach K. actually does visit here from time to time:D

I honestly believe that the loss to Mercer does indeed bother Coach K, otherwise we wouldn't have had todays press conference.

Atlanta Duke
03-26-2014, 08:55 PM
I was glad to hear K declare with specificity that he plans to remain at Duke for a long time (at 67, I consider a five-year "commitment" a long time). Of course, as others have cautioned, part of a declaration of that nature is designed to reassure recruits that the coach recruiting them will still be around while they are playing there. Life is unpredictable, though, and things do change.

Yep - he appeared energized today (he is looking forward to Team USA, which will be a commitment through mid-September this year) and apparently plans to be around for the the remainder of the decade.

But life in general and health in particular is a variable at any age - one of my favorite lines is from Woody Allen - “If you want to make God laugh, tell him about your plans.”

BlueDevilBrowns
03-26-2014, 08:58 PM
Since the loss to Mercer there have been a number of snarky responses, that went along the lines of, "I'm sure Coach K. will be reading what we have to say here on the board for input into next season." WOW, what a shock to hear the man himself address many of the same concerns that were expressed by a number of people on this board.

One and dones, defensive schemes, AAU circuit, you name it and we had threads about it the past few days. Maybe Coach K. actually does visit here from time to time:D

I honestly believe that the loss to Mercer does indeed bother Coach K, otherwise we wouldn't have had todays press conference.

Yes, especially the point about "on-the-court leadership"(cough cough)!

Henderson
03-26-2014, 09:05 PM
Yes, Cook can be a very important contributor, but I don't see how all three of those things (Jones as good as advertised and Cook and Sulaimon stepping up to All-ACC play) can happen. If Jones is as good as advertised, he becomes the primary PG; personally, I hope that comes to pass, and it would mean a very effective pass-first PG who gets other people involved. But that wouldn't leave enough minutes for BOTH Cook and Sulaimon to play at an All-ACC level. My wish list has Tyus Jones as the primary PG, Sulaimon as the primary SG (yet also able to run the point from time to time or rack up assists as well as points) and Cook coming off the bench, mostly as a shooter. Would all three be on the floor at the same time? At some points, yes, but not often; I'd lean more toward Winslow at SF, perhaps some minutes for Ojeleye. Need the defense and rebounding at that position.

How would Cook adjust to that role? After the disappointing ending to the season, I'd like to think he will see the big picture of winning and embrace such a role, but it's no sure thing.

I agree with this analysis, but I'd like to cast it in a more positive light.

Barring some freakish turn of events next year, Quinn Cook is not going to play in the NBA. If he was going to have his breakout year, this was to have been it. It wasn't. So what role next year?

He could see himself pushed aside into a supporting role and rebel against it. Maybe try too hard, shoot too much. Or he can be the role model mentor to the next great Duke point guard. A senior leader. A guy who knows that his job is not to shine every game but to bring out the best in his protege and thereby shine himself. And come into games reliably to get things done. He can play the point reliably, and he can score. The guy can rain points like a summer storm sometimes. He can make spectacular defensive plays. And he can dazzle to the hoop sometimes. But he can also graciously and helpfully pass the baton if he picks up that mantle. I'd like to see him assume that role, not as a demotion, but as a movement into a sort of eminence grise, above the trashy who's-getting-PT sort of role.

Tyus and Quinn at the point. Tyus with as much PT as he can handle as a freshman. Quinn the more experienced mentor with a lot to teach, and Tyus the more gifted student, ready to learn, already knowing maybe more than his mentor, but hungry to learn what he can from the more experienced player.

wk2109
03-26-2014, 09:06 PM
I could easily see a scenario in which all three average 28-30 mpg. Even at 30 mpg each, that only spills over into the SF spot 10 mpg. Now, maybe the breakdown is more like 32, 30, 26. But even that is enough time to exhibit All-ACC caliber play.

Considering that Rasheed started at SF as a freshman on a legit title contender, I think it's certainly possible he could spend 15+ minutes at the SF spot next year and fill in at the 1-2 for maybe 15 min a game.

I don't think Tyus is much smaller than Seth (if he's smaller at all), and Duke was still a really good team with Quinn-Seth-Rasheed on the perimeter. I forsee a 5-man rotation at the 1-3 spots with Quinn, Tyus, Rasheed, Matt and Justise.

For those who don't like three guard lineups, take solace that the smallest guy we could put at the 3 spot is Rasheed at 6'4". That's better than the Seth-Quinn-Tyler lineups we saw at times last year.

NashvilleDevil
03-26-2014, 09:17 PM
Good for him. I'm not an ACC homer but I know lots of you folks are. It's Duke, Duke and Duke for me and blah to the rest.

In other news, here's a fun article, it rehashes a lot of stuff but there are some juicy nuggets in there that made me happy:

https://medium.com/p/949cf42e095d

Including this gem: 'And when all else fails, they lean on the simplest, most infuriating form of trash talk: the score. Nothing incites bodily violence quicker than a Duke fan turning in your direction and saying 'scoreboard.' ”

Thanks for sharing this. I thought this was really well done. I did the extension on the term paper move to many times to count.

Nugget
03-26-2014, 09:20 PM
Yeah, I wonder whether, in a similar vein, K will come to regret not redshirting Semi this year, since he played a total of 80 minutes all season.

I think he very well might and it is a good thing I believe for Coach K to be re-thinking this. He has historically not done much redshirting and we've often had players like Semi and Ryan play miniscule minutes as freshmen, essentially wasting years when they could have been redshirted.

That's fine when you had full rosters of 12-13 guys staying all 4 years. But, in the current age, where you don't get more than 1-2 years of the best players, preserving extra eligibility for potential upperclass contributors makes a great deal of sense. Who knows whether, for example, Marty Pocious would have been a big contributor by 2009-2010 if he'd been redshirted rather than play 168 minutes in 2005-2006, or if Josh Hairston could play meaningful minutes next year if he'd redshirted in 2010-2011, rather than play 162 minutes?

Also, we might reduce transfers of guys who are relatively unproductive in their early years but could potentially be contributors as upperclassmen if they were redshirted as freshmen -- it seems most common that we lose players either at the end of their freshman year or at the semester break of their Sophmore season, from which I infer that guys can reasonably take not playing much for 1 season, but if it is happening a second season, that's when the frustration boils over. So a freshman year redshirt removes the expectation of playing at all and buys time for a guy to get more program experience before reaching that cross-road.

For example, we might not have lost to transfer Michael Thompson (played 59 minutes as Fr. in 2002-2003, transferred mid-year in 2003-2004), Eric Boateng (played 50 minutes as Fr. in 2005-2006), Olek Czyz (played 42 minutes as Fr. in 2008-2009) or Michael Gbinije (played 110 minutes as Fr. in 2011-2012) if they'd had their expectations for early PT lowered by freshman year redshirts.

The dividends of that would also feed itself. For example, if Boateng had redshirted in 2005-2006 instead of playing 50 minutes and stayed, he'd have been a productive Junior in 2008-2009 for a team that had very limited size (e.g., Singler spent much of that year playing Center) and we could have probably red-shirted Miles Plumlee (who instead played, but only for 168 minutes), meaning Miles would have been a Senior on last year's team, and we could have red-shirted Amile Jefferson to give him another year in the weight room, etc.

richardjackson199
03-26-2014, 09:32 PM
I know others will disagree.
Quinn Cook will be a senior next year and a very very good one. He is a hell of a scorer and distributor. He can be just sick on the fast break. He should start and play big minutes. Tyus Jones is the dynamite point guard we've been waiting for. He should start and play big minutes. Tyus and Quinn could man the 1/2 like Duhon and JWill in 2001. They're different players obviously. But JWill moved into the 2 spot in 2001 as more of a scorer with Duhon manning the 1. That worked out pretty well even though both could distribute, shoot, and score. Rasheed is tall, can shoot, defend, slash into the paint, and assist beautifully. He should play big minutes.

If Hood and Jabari come back our starters should be IMO: (this team would be better than UNLV in 91)
1. Tyus Jones
2. Rodney Hood
3. Jabari Parker
4. Amile Jefferson / Myles Turner (I try to stay optimistic until reality proves otherwise)
5. Jahlil Okafor

If Jabari comes back and Hood leaves, starters should be:
1. Tyus Jones
2. Quinn Cook
3. Jabari Parker
4. Amile Jefferson / Myles Turner (based on matchups and whoever earns the start)
5. Jahlil Okafor

If Hood and Jabari are gone our starters should be:
1. Tyus Jones
2. Quinn Cook
3. Rasheed Sulaimon / Justice Winslow (based on matchups and whoever earns the start)
4. Amile Jefferson / Myles Turner
5. Jahlil Okafor

MP3 should give us some great valuable minutes subbing at 4/5.
Grayson Allen to sub at the 2.
Semi to sub at the stretch 4
Matt Jones to sub at the 2/3

I think there is zero probability that Jabari leaves and Hood stays next year.

Regardless - it will be a fun and very different team next year with very different strengths than this year's team.

BD80
03-26-2014, 09:38 PM
I find it interesting that Coach K tacitly admitted that he would have preferred that Tyler not have been ceded the leadership role, and that he wasn't really talented enough to belong on the court the amount he was. It was clear to many of us that Tyler was a step down in talent, but it was difficult for any of us to understand the team dynamic that led to Tyler's minutes.

Random thought, if the other players need to learn to play to complement the best player, what happens if Jabari stays?

Mudge
03-26-2014, 09:57 PM
...Also pleased to hear K speak about his plans for Quinn next year and utilizing him as more of a shooter, rather than his classic role as point guard. As I contended throughout the season, Quinn is more of a natural scorer than a facilitator, and could prove an invaluable asset as a spot-up guy off the bench to help space the floor and provide quick points. Such a move would also work to take the ball out of Quinn's hands as the pilot of our offense in transition, which is when his shot selection seems to be at its wildest (e.g. ill-advised 22-foot pull-ups). When catching and shooting on the wing within the flow of the offense, Quinn is quite effective from long distance.

I think there's a kid named Tyus who's going to "take the ball out of Quinn's hands as the pilot of our offense" next year, whether Cook wants that or not-- especially given K's comments about: 1) Duke lacking consistent play at PG this year; 2) Duke lacking consistent leadership this year; 3) K needing the best players to be "on the court", playing 30+ min/game, in order for them to be effective as leaders; 4) K saying that Tyus is a "tremendous leader".

Overall, one comes away impressed with how deeply (and complexly) K thinks about the challenges he faces as the coach of a basketball team-- many of the things we talk about here are so far below the level of metaphysical considerations that he is focusing on, it's a bit like grade-schoolers trying to comprehend graduate-level philosophy or physics courses...

Having said that, there's a reason that they had a show on TV called "Are you smarter than a third-grader" (or some such thing)-- and the answer sometimes comes back-- NO, you are not... As smart as many really high-level academic people are, we've probably all seen instances where those persons demonstrate blindness/obtuseness about things that are right in front of them, that are really obvious to others who are not nearly as sophisticated or intellectually developed as those academics are-- it's the Andy Griffith/Jed Clampett/Mr. Deeds/Chance the Gardner phenomenon of the naif who is oftentimes more perceptive than all the sophisticates around him... different people have different types of developed IQs-- some brilliant in literature, some in math/science, some in interpersonal relationships, some in leading people, etc.-- and more often than not, most people are really accomplished (at best) in only one of these types of intelligence...

My point: Even though I would say that K is probably one of the world's pre-eminent practitioners of leadership and masters of interpersonal relationships, I think there may be moments where K is "up in the clouds" (metaphorically), contemplating what it will take to get his team to exhibit really high level communication and on-the-court, organic leadership, and judges that (for example) Marshall Plumlee is definitely not the guy to give him that (at least right now), which may cause K to forget more pedestrian, somewhat primal concepts, while in the midst of those ruminations-- some basic basketball facts of life (so to speak)-- to wit: "What we really need right this minute is bad-*** mo-fo in the middle, who will knock the snot out of the ball (and, if need be, the guy who has it) on the next joker who tries to drive the lane for a layup"-- the proverbial blunt instrument that gets the job done, if you will...

I am speculating that K's highly evolved process of higher-level (basketball coaching) thinking may explain why, at times, K seems to almost forget about certain players on the team in certain segments of games-- when the relatively unsophisticated might see the need for that very same player as fairly obvious... and I think there have been times where even K has acknowledged (in hindsight) that he needed to have done things differently (i.e- involved different players more)-- a sort of mea culpa from Olympus...

I take some of this press conference's statements as K clearly saying "Yes, there were a number of things we (as coaches) could have done better this past season (both high and low level), and we plan to make changes, after analyzing it all"... of course, he also was quite clearly saying that some of the (bad) things that happened this year were the unavoidable result of certain elements that were lacking in this year's overall team-- it wasn't that he didn't know what to do about them-- it was that those deficiencies proved unfixable (at least in the time allotted).

roywhite
03-26-2014, 09:58 PM
I find it interesting that Coach K tacitly admitted that he would have preferred that Tyler not have been ceded the leadership role, and that he wasn't really talented enough to belong on the court the amount he was. It was clear to many of us that Tyler was a step down in talent, but it was difficult for any of us to understand the team dynamic that led to Tyler's minutes.

Random thought, if the other players need to learn to play to complement the best player, what happens if Jabari stays?

To your first point, many of those minutes for Tyler came at the expense of Quinn Cook. That's a reason I'd prefer to see Quinn come off the bench and for Tyus and Rasheed to be the most prominent backcourt combo. I'm not sure about internal team dynamics, but I saw enough to realize Quinn was not effective as a perimeter defender (visions of Rod Hall from Clemson blowing past Quinn). Now, Tyus doesn't exactly have a reputation of shut-down defender, either, but we'll see how he picks up that part of the game. Pretty obvious that Coach K is very determined to have a better defense in 2014-15.

If Jabari stayed, I think it would work pretty well; the presence of Okafor down low would give everybody more space. A lineup of:
Tyus Jones PG
Rasheed Sulaimon SG
Justise Winslow SF
Jabari Parker F
Jahlil Okafor C

That's an entire USA FIBA lineup!

Yes, they would be young, and others would have to figure in, but what a collection of talent.

BD80
03-26-2014, 11:24 PM
Another morsel gleaned from the comments: Jabari wasn't in good enough condition to play defense, particularly at the end of games.

Edouble
03-27-2014, 03:39 AM
If Hood and Jabari come back our starters should be IMO: (this team would be better than UNLV in 91)
1. Tyus Jones
2. Rodney Hood
3. Jabari Parker
4. Amile Jefferson / Myles Turner (I try to stay optimistic until reality proves otherwise)
5. Jahlil Okafor



No.

No that team would not be better than UNLV '91.

No offense, but you are adding two players that have played zero minutes in college to a core group that could not win a single NCAA game. I know it looks good on paper, but I have a high respect for the game, and although it pains me to stand up for the Runnin' Rebs, I have to say that (for the love of the game) I believe you are quite mistaken.

As a side note, I wish Jabari would go ahead and declare so that we can officially begin legitimate off season discussions. Too much "if Jabari stays" talk on the boards. I just hope people aren't setting themselves up too much for a disappointment. He's going to be drafted in the top half of the lottery. The Crazies will have to make their own Jabari bars next year. Or Jahill jam thumbprints... or Justise juicepops.

ice-9
03-27-2014, 05:06 AM
A team with Kyrie, Austin, Jabari, Rodney -- I mean, is there any doubt it would be the odds-on favorite to win multiple championships?

That's a fearsome team offensively to our opponents.

It's also a fearsome team defensively for Duke coaches and us Duke fans.

I think the press and we fans tend to overate offensive talent at the expense of defensive talent.

richardjackson199
03-27-2014, 05:28 AM
No.

No that team would not be better than UNLV '91.

No offense, but you are adding two players that have played zero minutes in college to a core group that could not win a single NCAA game. I know it looks good on paper, but I have a high respect for the game, and although it pains me to stand up for the Runnin' Rebs, I have to say that (for the love of the game) I believe you are quite mistaken.

As a side note, I wish Jabari would go ahead and declare so that we can officially begin legitimate off season discussions. Too much "if Jabari stays" talk on the boards. I just hope people aren't setting themselves up too much for a disappointment. He's going to be drafted in the top half of the lottery. The Crazies will have to make their own Jabari bars next year. Or Jahill jam thumbprints... or Justise juicepops.

We can agree to disagree. Anyone who is a freshman comes in having played zero minutes in college. Kentucky with Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague and company did quite well with such a team who looked pretty dominant all year. Furthermore, I expect guys like Jabari to continue to improve toward their ceiling. I don't think the outcome of one single NCAA game with this year's core group (with major issues at point guard) is indicative of how good next year's team could be with a superior point guard and 5 stud freshmen (as in my dream-scenario example).

Comparing by position:

1. Tyus Jones (unknown) vs. Greg Anthony. Advantage Anthony, probably substantially. But Tyler Ennis showed that a freshman can run the point pretty well, and T. Jones was rated higher than Ennis. We'll see how good this kid is.
2. Rodney Hood (redshirt Jr.) vs. Anderson Hunt. Advantage Hood.
3. Jabari Parker (Soph) vs. Stacey Augmon. Augmon was good in college, but advantage definitely Parker.
4. Amile Jefferson and/or Myles Turner vs. Larry Johnson. Big Advantage Johnson.
5. Jahlil Okafor vs. George Ackles. Big Advantage Okafor.
6. Duke's potential bench of Quinn Cook; Rasheed Sulaimon; Justise Winslow; Marshall Plumlee; Grayson Allen; Matt Jones; and Semi Ojeleye Big Advantage over 91 UNLV team which had a weak bench.
7. Coaching. Well I think K showed in 91 that he could hang with Tark.
8. Defense: Big Advantage UNLV; but there wouldn't be so many layups with Okafor, Turner, and MP3 in the middle. Sulaimon and Winslow can defend, so I expect defense to be much better next year.
The above Duke team could have the #1 and #2 picks in the 2015 draft with a 3rd top 10 pick in Hood. That is 2 legit candidates for NPOY + a 3rd candidate for 1st team all American. It's close, but I think next year's Duke dream team would be better. I also have high respect for the game. The 91 UNLV team was blowing people out, but recall that like Wichita State they really didn't play anybody until Duke beat them in the final 4. With their lack of depth they were vulnerable to foul trouble as we exposed.

If Jabari, Rodney, and Myles are still considering being at Duke next year, I'm content for them to wait as long as they need to decide what is right for them. I recognize this may delay legitimate off-season DBR speculation, and I'm ok with that.

NashvilleDevil
03-27-2014, 07:01 AM
We can agree to disagree. Anyone who is a freshman comes in having played zero minutes in college. Kentucky with Anthony Davis, Kidd-Gilchrist, Teague and company did quite well with such a team who looked pretty dominant all year. Furthermore, I expect guys like Jabari to continue to improve toward their ceiling. I don't think the outcome of one single NCAA game with this year's core group (with major issues at point guard) is indicative of how good next year's team could be with a superior point guard and 5 stud freshmen (as in my dream-scenario example).

Comparing by position:

1. Tyus Jones (unknown) vs. Greg Anthony. Advantage Anthony, probably substantially. But Tyler Ennis showed that a freshman can run the point pretty well, and T. Jones was rated higher than Ennis. We'll see how good this kid is.
2. Rodney Hood (redshirt Jr.) vs. Anderson Hunt. Advantage Hood.
3. Jabari Parker (Soph) vs. Stacey Augmon. Augmon was good in college, but advantage definitely Parker.
4. Amile Jefferson and/or Myles Turner vs. Larry Johnson. Big Advantage Johnson.
5. Jahlil Okafor vs. George Ackles. Big Advantage Okafor.
6. Duke's potential bench of Quinn Cook; Rasheed Sulaimon; Justise Winslow; Marshall Plumlee; Grayson Allen; Matt Jones; and Semi Ojeleye Big Advantage over 91 UNLV team which had a weak bench.
7. Coaching. Well I think K showed in 91 that he could hang with Tark.
8. Defense: Big Advantage UNLV; but there wouldn't be so many layups with Okafor, Turner, and MP3 in the middle. Sulaimon and Winslow can defend, so I expect defense to be much better next year.
The above Duke team could have the #1 and #2 picks in the 2015 draft with a 3rd top 10 pick in Hood. That is 2 legit candidates for NPOY + a 3rd candidate for 1st team all American. It's close, but I think next year's Duke dream team would be better. I also have high respect for the game. The 91 UNLV team was blowing people out, but recall that like Wichita State they really didn't play anybody until Duke beat them in the final 4. With their lack of depth they were vulnerable to foul trouble as we exposed.

If Jabari, Rodney, and Myles are still considering being at Duke next year, I'm content for them to wait as long as they need to decide what is right for them. I recognize this may delay legitimate off-season DBR speculation, and I'm ok with that.

I think you forget how great those UNLV teams were. No way a potential 2014-15 Duke team full of freshmen and sophomores would stack up against that veteran laden UNLV team. As good as UNLV's defense was they also had a good offense and would light Duke up.

jv001
03-27-2014, 07:29 AM
Yeah, when I mused on the Coaching thread the other day about the negative impact of the AAU culture on the kids' prioritization of winning, and doing all the things necessary to win, I was shouted down by a couple of posters who accused me of being "insulting" to the players. Interesting that K is concerned about similar and related manifestations of the AAU culture. I do find the additional lengths to which he took it -- the impact of the AAU culture on the development of leadership skills -- to be insightful and thought-provoking as well.

I thought about that as I typed the post. I agree with you and Coach about the AAU culture. Too much individualism and not enough TEAM. GoDuke!

DevilYouKnow
03-27-2014, 08:19 AM
What's especially encouraging about the five year plan is that should give Johnny, Tommy and Chris (plus current assistants) plenty of time to prove themselves worthy of succession. Not that I'm an advocate of sticking strickly within "the Family" (see Dougherty, Matt), but if one of those three were to really stand out, it would be great to bring them back home.

Then, there's always the bonus of having the greatest coach of all time for five more seasons!

Kfanarmy
03-27-2014, 09:07 AM
I noticed that he praised the UVA team and their coach.

I would be EXTREMELY happy if he would consider emulating a bit of their defensive philosophy. I worry about the comments about conditioning, training, and talking in order to properly perform the current defensive scheme; I think it would be better to alter the scheme.

I say this because unless the referees drastically alter the way they are calling the games, the old Duke scheme, even if performed to near perfection by a highly conditioned, coordinated, talking group of athletes, is likely to land us in foul trouble. And I really think that foul trouble was one of the more important reasons for our late-game swoons in several of our losses. Foul trouble equals less aggressive defense; less aggressive defense equals easier scoring opportunities for the opponents and very high shooting percentages, which equals loss of a lead late in the game.

Other than that, there was a lot to be happy about in his comments.


Oh, and by the way, the second to last question was probably about Coach K's comments regarding how the A-10 got more teams into the tournament than ACC teams.

There were a combination of things going on with Duke's D this year. Clearly foul trouble was one of the things that enabled opponents to stay in / take the lead in a few games late. I do think that some of the players exhibited poor (relative to opponents) conditioning in a few games as well. If Coach K believes that their ability to stay down in a good guard position, and inability to communicate at the end of the game were a significant part of the problem and that was driven by a recent change in conditioning drills/program, I believe it. I also think a couple of players on this team really just struggled to maintain focus on that end of the floor. Clearly it is a point of emphasis and I hope to see the old Duke D back, perhaps in the same form, at least in the same intensity.

Kfanarmy
03-27-2014, 09:22 AM
I think you forget how great those UNLV teams were. No way a potential 2014-15 Duke team full of freshmen and sophomores would stack up against that veteran laden UNLV team. As good as UNLV's defense was they also had a good offense and would light Duke up.

I agree with this completely. That would be like playing a team with Mercer's upperclassman and Duke's talent -- next year if Jabari or Rodney stay...I believe they had three upperclassmen who went on to play in the NBA. They had the best offense in the country and a defense that could play at the same "runnin'" pace the offense played. They were experienced, talented, confident, cohesive; they were a team.

Saratoga2
03-27-2014, 10:10 AM
I noticed that he praised the UVA team and their coach.

I would be EXTREMELY happy if he would consider emulating a bit of their defensive philosophy. I worry about the comments about conditioning, training, and talking in order to properly perform the current defensive scheme; I think it would be better to alter the scheme.

I say this because unless the referees drastically alter the way they are calling the games, the old Duke scheme, even if performed to near perfection by a highly conditioned, coordinated, talking group of athletes, is likely to land us in foul trouble. And I really think that foul trouble was one of the more important reasons for our late-game swoons in several of our losses. Foul trouble equals less aggressive defense; less aggressive defense equals easier scoring opportunities for the opponents and very high shooting percentages, which equals loss of a lead late in the game.

Other than that, there was a lot to be happy about in his comments.


Oh, and by the way, the second to last question was probably about Coach K's comments regarding how the A-10 got more teams into the tournament than ACC teams.


If everything is to be evaluated, what about the system being played, especially since we have seen UVA do very well with a completely different system. Being in better condition and talking more will make us better but does it reflect the change in rules we have seen in the last year?

Matches
03-27-2014, 10:34 AM
So glad K did this. I know we as fans aren't really owed anything in terms of communication from the coaching staff but man... I really needed to hear a lot of that after the disappointing end to the season. Eases my mind quite a bit as we head into the offseason.

bedeviled
03-27-2014, 11:38 AM
Yeah, when I mused on the Coaching thread the other day about the negative impact of the AAU culture on the kids' prioritization of winning, and doing all the things necessary to win, I was shouted down by a couple of posters who accused me of being "insulting" to the playersHaha, your travails popped into my head as soon as I heard him say that....and I decided to include it in my press conference transcript anyway ;) I agreed with what you wrote, but I don't see it as problem affecting Duke uniquely. As I said, I, too, thought that the mental-emotional aspects were important this past season, but I refrained from getting into debate about player specifics for the very reasons that ended up plaguing you.

BUUUUUUUUUUUUT, now that Coach K has brought it up....
Naw, I still don't really want to go there. Please allow me, though, to mention one point: the difficulty Quinn appeared to have in adjusting the offense. It seemed to me that Quinn slowed the ball and looked to the bench for guidance on offense more so than I recall past PGs doing. In addition, he was clearly flummoxed when defenses presented new looks, which necessitated our taking timeouts and substitutions. He may have good court vision, but I suspect he didn't fully understand what he was seeing this year. It makes me wonder if I didn't truly appreciate the seniors' roles in running the offense last year. I also wonder if our offensive design this year had more to do with our team's needs rather than K's work with the pros (as has been reasonably suggested by some).

Disclaimer: As I've said before, I've never been bully on QC, so my perspective is skewed. But, I thought K alluded to this issue in his presser. Here's my admittedly tenuous evidence:
-- When talking about Tyler and leadership, he appears to associate leading with understanding on the fly: "Even though he’s less talented than Rasheed or Quinn, he had the ability to lead. He did that better without the ball. He understood. He got it while the game was going on better than anyone on our team, so his value increased."
-- Multiple times, he unsolicitedly stressed that a leader doesn't have to be a point guard. Me thinks he doth protest too much ;)
-- Spoke of leadership when talking about Tyler (but not in extended comments about Rasheed or Rodney)
-- Maybe wasn't expecting JP to be the guy to structure things: "With younger guys, if they have that support around them, they're going to function better."

Anyway, it could very well be my bias, but that's what I "heard." As such, I will be curious to watch the method and progress of Tyus' development from within the larger context.

cato
03-27-2014, 12:07 PM
Random thought, if the other players need to learn to play to complement the best player, what happens if Jabari stays?

First, I got the sense from K's comments that he is pretty sure that Jabari is gone.

Second, as good as Jabari is on the offensive end, he is not dominant on both ends, and not a complete game changer like Lebron. The best center can be. I assume that the team would still have to adapt to Okafor, including Jabari, since Okafor is (presumably) bringing a dimension that has not been seen at Duke in a long time.

Third, dreaming of Okafor at the 5 and Jabari at the 4 feels a little like dreaming of a full season of Kyrie . . .

CDu
03-27-2014, 12:31 PM
I tend to disagree with Coach K on the specifics of the point about AAU culture and its effect on players. I don't think it de-emphasizes winning. These kids, before AAU exploded, were playing tons and tons of pickup games anyway. They want to win those pickup games just like they want to win those AAU tournaments. Instead of desensitization to losing, I think what the AAU culture has done is de-emphasized the focus on teamwork that is necessary at the lower levels in order to prepare a kid for college ball. So I think it is more accurate to say that these kids are less prepared as freshman than it is to say that they have been desensitized to winning.

The AAU culture creates tons of games with different players, different coaches, and different opponents. That, by nature, makes developing any sort of continuity difficult. So if you're playing with regularly-changing teammates, how can you expect to develop an understanding of teamwork and trust in your teammates? And if you're playing against teams with regularly changing teammates who also will face the same troubles developing teamwork and trust, how can you get the lessons (typically gained through losing) that enforce the need for better understanding of teamwork (on both ends of the floor)?

I think that the vast majority of these kids REALLY want to win. And I think they are willing to do whatever they know how to do to win. But I think they aren't being given the necessary instruction from their coaches on how to play team defense or how to run a structured offense. So the only thing they know how to work on is their one-on-one game. So these kids are coming to college woefully unprepared to play a team game. They learn that in college as the quality of coaching and the degree of continuity improves. That's why we can see a guy like Redick go from a gunner and defensive liability as a freshman to being an extremely well-rounded player on both ends as a senior.

In decades past, these players' limitations would get masked by sitting the bench as freshmen. Before the era of early entry, good teams had juniors and seniors who were about as talented and way more well-coached than the incoming freshmen. So the freshmen sat. Now, those elite talents are more and more likely to be gone before their junior and senior year, and as such the freshmen are more and more likely to have to play major roles immediately. And that results in their unpreparedness being exposed. So the one-and-done culture (which shuffles the best talent to the NBA sooner) serves to magnify the issue of unpreparedness caused by the AAU culture (which sends less prepared players to college).

-jk
03-27-2014, 12:37 PM
I tend to disagree with Coach K on the specifics of the point about AAU culture and its effect on players. I don't think it de-emphasizes winning. These kids, before AAU exploded, were playing tons and tons of pickup games anyway. They want to win those pickup games just like they want to win those AAU tournaments. Instead of desensitization to losing, I think what the AAU culture has done is de-emphasized the focus on teamwork that is necessary at the lower levels in order to prepare a kid for college ball. So I think it is more accurate to say that these kids are less prepared as freshman than it is to say that they have been desensitized to winning.

The AAU culture creates tons of games with different players, different coaches, and different opponents. That, by nature, makes developing any sort of continuity difficult. So if you're playing with regularly-changing teammates, how can you expect to develop an understanding of teamwork and trust in your teammates? And if you're playing against teams with regularly changing teammates who also will face the same troubles developing teamwork and trust, how can you get the lessons (typically gained through losing) that enforce the need for better understanding of teamwork (on both ends of the floor)?

I think that the vast majority of these kids REALLY want to win. And I think they are willing to do whatever they know how to do to win. But I think they aren't being given the necessary instruction from their coaches on how to play team defense or how to run a structured offense. So the only thing they know how to work on is their one-on-one game. So these kids are coming to college woefully unprepared to play a team game. They learn that in college as the quality of coaching and the degree of continuity improves. That's why we can see a guy like Redick go from a gunner and defensive liability as a freshman to being an extremely well-rounded player on both ends as a senior.

In decades past, these players' limitations would get masked by sitting the bench as freshmen. Before the era of early entry, good teams had juniors and seniors who were about as talented and way more well-coached than the incoming freshmen. So the freshmen sat. Now, those elite talents are more and more likely to be gone before their junior and senior year, and as such the freshmen are more and more likely to have to play major roles immediately. And that results in their unpreparedness being exposed. So the one-and-done culture (which shuffles the best talent to the NBA sooner) serves to magnify the issue of unpreparedness caused by the AAU culture (which sends less prepared players to college).

I think you missed K's point. In pick up games, the winners keep the court. You win or sit. No one wants to sit. Different mentality than AAU where you play 3 or 4 games in a day, regardless.

-jk

gumbomoop
03-27-2014, 12:37 PM
[Yet again I'm having trouble with the "reply with quote" function when trying to quote bedeviled, but no such problem with any other poster this thread. So I'm putting bedeviled in with nmduke2001 as an Area 51/Roswell suspect.]

On bedeviled's comments re Quinn, and especially Krzyzewski's comment that Quinn's best talent is shooting - K has been quoted on some other thread as having said, maybe to Jabari: "It isn't personal. It's the truth." It appears that K gradually came to believe that Quinn was not an excellent PG. Yes, he made some wonderful alley-oop passes, but couldn't drive and dish, and was inconsistent even in getting the ball to Jabari with a simple 45-degree pass from out on the wing.

Coach Wojciechowski said at some point in the season, re Quinn's head-hanging, I think, that "Quinn has a big personality." I inferred that this referred to Quinn's heartfelt desire to make big plays, and to be a leader. I've no idea why he hasn't reached the potential he was thought to possess [passive voice here, to protect the innocent and the guilty]. Maybe his HS injury took away some explosiveness. Maybe his court vision/sense hasn't sufficiently improved in college.

Whatever, some big questions for Quinn going forward are: what does the staff now think the truth is about Quinn's strengths and weaknesses, how will that determine the role the staff sees for him during his senior year, and how will his "big personality" adapt?

On one of the Looking Forward threads, I opined that no matter who starts, Quinn would get 28-30 mpg. I don't interpret K's comments about Quinn and Tyus to mean that Quinn will get absolutely no minutes at PG, but it's pretty clear that as of this moment, the staff thinks Tyus will be the main PG. I've no problem seeing Quinn and Tyus play big minutes together, so far as O is concerned. D? I don't know. I've no problem with perimeter small-ball for some [but not big] minutes, so far as O is concerned. D? A problem.

I'd now, just now, guess that Quinn will not play 30 mpg, maybe more like 22-25, all the more likely if Justise - supposed to be a strong, smart defender - gets significant minutes as a traditional wing/SF. Or if Matt improves noticeably, and his minutes rise a bit, or a lot.

How will Quinn adapt to this emerging - not certain but likely - truth? Will Quinn, with his big personality, be, a la Andre, a happy senior? [By which I do not imply - so please do not infer - that he will be unhappy. Rather, I mean to say, how Quinn responds to the likelihood that he will not be "the PG for Duke" during his senior season promises to be a compelling story line going forward.]

CDu
03-27-2014, 12:38 PM
First, I got the sense from K's comments that he is pretty sure that Jabari is gone.

Second, as good as Jabari is on the offensive end, he is not dominant on both ends, and not a complete game changer like Lebron. The best center can be. I assume that the team would still have to adapt to Okafor, including Jabari, since Okafor is (presumably) bringing a dimension that has not been seen at Duke in a long time.

Third, dreaming of Okafor at the 5 and Jabari at the 4 feels a little like dreaming of a full season of Kyrie . . .

Given that we are still recruiting a likely one-and-doner at PF in Myles Turner, I think it's safe to say that Coach K expects Parker to go pro. I think he'd love to have Parker for another year, but I doubt that he expects it. And, frankly, I think that the odds have been very much against a Parker return from the beginning. He was going to be a top-5 pick if he went pro this year, and there are VERY few guys who turn that down.

As for Okafor, I'm not sure that I'd say he's necessarily dominant on the defensive end. He certainly isn't going to get pushed around out there, and he's undoubtedly going to be a strong rebounder. Heck, maybe he'll even be a shot-changer with his size. But he's not exactly the quickest or most explosive of big men. If we ask him to play hedge and recover defense, is he going to be able to get out on the ballhandler and still have the quickness to recover to the paint? Is he going to have the lateral quickness to handle switches whenever they occur? Is he going to be any more prepared than Parker was in terms of team defensive concepts?

I have high expectations for Okafor, just like I did for Parker. But I'm not sure I'm ready to say he'll be a dominant presence on both ends of the floor just yet.

That being said, I can't imagine a better offensive partnership at PF/C than Parker and Okafor. So even if the two could be adequate in terms of defense, that would be an absolutely amazing front line. But I suspect that will be the stuff of dreams rather than reality.

gumbomoop
03-27-2014, 12:53 PM
Given that we are still recruiting a likely one-and-doner at PF in Myles Turner, I think it's safe to say that Coach K expects Parker to go pro.

I'll guess that Krzyzewski does still think Jabari will leave, but is not as of right now 100% certain.

Further, I have assumed that if Turner is still considering Duke, he'd surely wait for Jabari to say he's leaving. No reason for Turner to commit right now, nor any reason for Duke not to keep recruiting him. No hurry, give Jabari time to decide first.

CDu
03-27-2014, 12:58 PM
I'll guess that Krzyzewski does still think Jabari will leave, but is not as of right now 100% certain.

Further, I have assumed that if Turner is still considering Duke, he'd surely wait for Jabari to say he's leaving. No reason for Turner to commit right now, nor any reason for Duke not to keep recruiting him. No hurry, give Jabari time to decide first.

I would agree wholeheartedly with both of those statements.

SoCalDukeFan
03-27-2014, 01:27 PM
For me the unasked question was "What happened to the 5-5 sub pattern."

Our two biggest problems, as I gathered from the conference, were lack of leadership and fatigue. Another was that some players had trouble to adjusting to changes the system.

I know that the 5 -5 flies in the face of about everything coaches think they should do. It looked like K had to hold his nose to even try it. I saw Steve Lavin do it at UCLA and thought it was stupid at the time.

But, we played good games when we tried it.

The "starting five" would have played less minutes and been more rested at the end of each game, reduce fatigue factor.

Players on each unit had well defined roles, and in Rasheed and Quinn's case more like what the were asked to do last year.

Lack of leadership may have been less of an issue. I think the units would have developed a certain cohesion and also that Tyler could lead the "starting five" and Rasheed appeared to be leading the other five.

Also would have made us a little harder for other teams to prepare. Mercer knew just what to do.

Why did K hold the press conference? My guess is that he, like most everyone else, is trying to figure out why this team lost so many ACC games and could not advance in the NCAAT. He figured it out in his mind and wanted to clear the air. He may be running into some negative recruiting that he won't be there when 2015 recruits are juniors or seniors and wanted to get that off the table.

SoCal

Troublemaker
03-27-2014, 01:33 PM
That being said, I can't imagine a better offensive partnership at PF/C than Parker and Okafor. So even if the two could be adequate in terms of defense, that would be an absolutely amazing front line. But I suspect that will be the stuff of dreams rather than reality.

I agree. I also wouldn't rule out (not that you are) Jabari playing a lot of SF if he were to return. I agree with you that he's more of a college 4 than a college 3 size-wise, rebounding-wise, and scoring-wise (inside/outside game). But, for whatever season, he wasn't a good college 4 defensively, and that could trigger a move to SF, especially if one of the attractions to returning were to practice defense on the wing, where he would defend as a pro. If he slimmed down a bit and played at 225 lbs, could that work, or at least work better than when he was defending as a 4? Very possibly.

CDu
03-27-2014, 01:44 PM
I agree. I also wouldn't rule out (not that you are) Jabari playing a lot of SF if he were to return. I agree with you that he's more of a college 4 than a college 3 size-wise, rebounding-wise, and scoring-wise (inside/outside game). But, for whatever season, he wasn't a good college 4 defensively, and that could trigger a move to SF, especially if one of the attractions to returning were to practice defense on the wing, where he would defend as a pro. If he slimmed down a bit and played at 225 lbs, could that work, or at least work better than when he was defending as a 4? Very possibly.

I would probably rule it out. Given (a) the depth of talent we will have on the perimeter and (b) the fact that Parker isn't a terribly quick player, I don't see having him defend guards (many if not most "SF" in college are guards), I don't think we would see Parker at SF next year.

Putting Parker at SF would mean sitting one of our quicker players (Cook, Sulaimon, T. Jones) and playing one of our less quick players (Plumlee, Jefferson). Doesn't seem like a wise tradeoff to me.

I mean, if we had a TON of big men and few options on the perimeter and if Parker dropped 15 pounds, maybe I could see it. But we aren't exactly deep in the frontcourt next year and we're already facing a minutes crunch on the perimeter.

If Parker returns, he'll be playing PF. And I think that with another year of work with Coach K he would be a capable defender.

Edouble
03-27-2014, 01:48 PM
I agree. I also wouldn't rule out (not that you are) Jabari playing a lot of SF if he were to return. I agree with you that he's more of a college 4 than a college 3 size-wise, rebounding-wise, and scoring-wise (inside/outside game). But, for whatever season, he wasn't a good college 4 defensively, and that could trigger a move to SF, especially if one of the attractions to returning were to practice defense on the wing, where he would defend as a pro. If he slimmed down a bit and played at 225 lbs, could that work, or at least work better than when he was defending as a 4? Very possibly.

I don't think it's fair to say Jabari was not a good defensive 4, as he guarded the other teams 5 so much of the time.

I don't know if I can see Jabari playing much 3, were he to return. We pretty much built the team around him this year and moved him to a less perimeter oriented capacity after he started the year off doing more work on the perimeter. It seemed like his jump shooting (particularly from behind the arc) was cut back and he was encouraged to score down low more. I'm not sure if he is quick enough on defense to defend on the wing.

As a team overall, I think we're better off having Jabari defend the 4 and have Justise on the wing, as opposed to having Amile defend the 4 and have Jabari on the wing. Actually, from a strictly defensive standpoint we are probably best off having Justise defend the 3 and Amile defend the 4, which is what is going to happen anyway, since Jabari will be playing in Boston next year.

CameronBornAndBred
03-27-2014, 01:48 PM
Why did K hold the press conference? My guess is that he, like most everyone else, is trying to figure out why this team lost so many ACC games and could not advance in the NCAAT. He figured it out in his mind and wanted to clear the air. He may be running into some negative recruiting that he won't be there when 2015 recruits are juniors or seniors and wanted to get that off the table.

SoCal
I wonder, since the beginning theme was "I'll be here 5 years at least", is if maybe the conference was for recruits as much as fans. Hell, every year we have the "who will replace K" discussion, because each year we wonder if that time is fast approaching. (Hopefully that thread won't show up as often this year!)
So how would you like to be a recruit staring at your mail, excited at it being full of Duke letters, yet not sure since you are thinking the legend might not be there for all four of your years? He just said to every player on our radar, "I'm your guy and I will be for the long term."

Edouble
03-27-2014, 01:49 PM
I wonder, since the beginning theme was "I'll be here 5 years at least", is if maybe the conference was for recruits as much as fans.

Cal would have just tweeted it.

flyingdutchdevil
03-27-2014, 01:54 PM
Cal would have just tweeted it.

And that would actually be more effective with this social media-crazed world. I'd be surprised if there isn't a top 50 player in either the 2015 or 2016 class who doesn't have a Twitter handle.

Olympic Fan
03-27-2014, 01:57 PM
I don't think it's fair to say Jabari was not a good defensive 4, as he guarded the other teams 5 so much of the time.

I don't know if I can see Jabari playing much 3, were he to return. We pretty much built the team around him this year and moved him to a less perimeter oriented capacity after he started the year off doing more work on the perimeter. It seemed like his jump shooting (particularly from behind the arc) was cut back and he was encouraged to score down low more. I'm not sure if he is quick enough on defense to defend on the wing.

As a team overall, I think we're better off having Jabari defend the 4 and have Justise on the wing, as opposed to having Amile defend the 4 and have Jabari on the wing. Actually, from a strictly defensive standpoint we are probably best off having Justise defend the 3 and Amile defend the 4, which is what is going to happen anyway, since Jabari will be playing in Boston next year.

The problem with Jabari's defense was not so much the guy he was guarding, but that he was TERRIBLE at help defense. Our guards would do what they were supposed to do -- funnel drivers to a certain spot ... and then Jabari would not be there -- or he'd come late, trying for the block. It makes no difference if he was guarding the four or the five.

PS On the front page, talking about K's determination to coach five more years, they guess that he will end up around 1,050 wins ,... but by my count, if he coaches five more years, he ends up well over 1,100 wins ... maybe in the 1,120 to 1,140 range.

CDu
03-27-2014, 02:01 PM
The problem with Jabari's defense was not so much the guy he was guarding, but that he was TERRIBLE at help defense. Our guards would do what they were supposed to do -- funnel drivers to a certain spot ... and then Jabari would not be there -- or he'd come late, trying for the block. It makes no difference if he was guarding the four or the five.

Agreed - mostly. He also had a bad habit of going for the overplay on the pass, which led to easy baskets whenever he whiffed. But that's more of a teaching issue than an incapability issue.


PS On the front page, talking about K's determination to coach five more years, they guess that he will end up around 1,050 wins ,... but by my count, if he coaches five more years, he ends up well over 1,100 wins ... maybe in the 1,120 to 1,140 range.

Given that he's at 983, it would only take an average of 14 wins per year to get to 1,050. Your estimate sounds a lot more probable. However, I wonder if the front page was referring to wins at Duke. He "only" has 910 of those, so 1,050 sounds like a reasonable target (averaging ~28 wins per year).

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-27-2014, 02:21 PM
For me the unasked question was "What happened to the 5-5 sub pattern."

Our two biggest problems, as I gathered from the conference, were lack of leadership and fatigue. Another was that some players had trouble to adjusting to changes the system.

I know that the 5 -5 flies in the face of about everything coaches think they should do. It looked like K had to hold his nose to even try it. I saw Steve Lavin do it at UCLA and thought it was stupid at the time.

But, we played good games when we tried it.

The "starting five" would have played less minutes and been more rested at the end of each game, reduce fatigue factor.

Players on each unit had well defined roles, and in Rasheed and Quinn's case more like what the were asked to do last year.

Lack of leadership may have been less of an issue. I think the units would have developed a certain cohesion and also that Tyler could lead the "starting five" and Rasheed appeared to be leading the other five.

Also would have made us a little harder for other teams to prepare. Mercer knew just what to do.

Why did K hold the press conference? My guess is that he, like most everyone else, is trying to figure out why this team lost so many ACC games and could not advance in the NCAAT. He figured it out in his mind and wanted to clear the air. He may be running into some negative recruiting that he won't be there when 2015 recruits are juniors or seniors and wanted to get that off the table.

SoCal

Can someone with more time and and a knack for numbers me break down this "platoon substitution" idea into numbers for me? I know that it was fun, but my impression was that we did it for maybe three or four games. I think it grabbed fan interest more than anything else - strikes me as sort of "gimmicky" rather than effective. On this board it seems to have hit mythic porportions as one of the 2 or 3 "obvious" fixes to this disappointing season. (1. Play MP3 more, he's a hidden gem. 2. Whatever happened to hockey-style substitutions? That worked great! 3. Coach K has to breakdown and try zone defense to keep offenses honest.)

Anyways, I would posit that subbing in and out 5 at a time is not really a strategy at all. Seems like throwing a noodle at the wall to see if it sticks.

Myself, when I heard about the impromptu (to me) at least press conference, I nearly had a heart attack and figured Coach K was calling it a career. I had heard some soft mutterings from folks "who know" that it could be the end of the line. Lucky for me, that was addressed right at the outset. I would not have been surprised, given how taxing this past year has been on him physically and emotionally. I am VERY pleased that he said right out of the gate that he intends to be at Duke for at least another five years. I feel like at this point everything we get out of him is gravy. And the presser definitely makes it clear that he has a burning desire to continue winning and to be successful at the highest level with this program.

BD80
03-27-2014, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by CameronBornAndBred

I wonder, since the beginning theme was "I'll be here 5 years at least", is if maybe the conference was for recruits as much as fans.


Cal would have just tweeted it.

Rick Pitino would say "I'll be here 5 minutes at least"

Billy Dat
03-27-2014, 02:46 PM
I think you missed K's point. In pick up games, the winners keep the court. You win or sit. No one wants to sit. Different mentality than AAU where you play 3 or 4 games in a day, regardless.
-jk

I liked the larger message, but I think its one tied to an era that really no longer exists. In fact, its one where I'd love to hear a take from resident basketball philosopher and experienced youth coach, the one and only GREYBEARD!

In the old days, and we can argue over when this ended, kids played pick-up ball without ANY adults present. They made their way to the playground on bike, or on foot, or got dropped off, and formed up teams on their own. Two kids would be captains, naturally identified by their leadership in some tangible and intangible way, and the games would commence. Those kids on that court needed to figure out how to win to keep playing. No one was looking off the court for guidance from Mommy or Daddy or whichever dude was their AAU coach - they figured out how to win themselves. In that crucible, leaders emerged organically.

Now, because of uber parental supervision - both warranted in many cases and not in most others - this kind of dynamic doesn't happen. When kids meet up to play, adults are present. When adults are present, kids look to adults for guidance. Whichever adult cares enough to be the supervisor of the gym-time experience probably has a kid on the court, and that adult is going to tell that kid what to do. If the adult is coaching the AAU team, then his kid becomes a leader because the empowers the kid through nepotism-driven playing time, etc.

I think that's what K is talking about, leaders that emerge because they have inherent leadership ability that they develop organically - not because an adult blesses them with it.

CDu
03-27-2014, 02:46 PM
Can someone with more time and and a knack for numbers me break down this "platoon substitution" idea into numbers for me? I know that it was fun, but my impression was that we did it for maybe three or four games. I think it grabbed fan interest more than anything else - strikes me as sort of "gimmicky" rather than effective. On this board it seems to have hit mythic porportions as one of the 2 or 3 "obvious" fixes to this disappointing season. (1. Play MP3 more, he's a hidden gem. 2. Whatever happened to hockey-style substitutions? That worked great! 3. Coach K has to breakdown and try zone defense to keep offenses honest.)

Anyways, I would posit that subbing in and out 5 at a time is not really a strategy at all. Seems like throwing a noodle at the wall to see if it sticks.

Myself, when I heard about the impromptu (to me) at least press conference, I nearly had a heart attack and figured Coach K was calling it a career. I had heard some soft mutterings from folks "who know" that it could be the end of the line. Lucky for me, that was addressed right at the outset. I would not have been surprised, given how taxing this past year has been on him physically and emotionally. I am VERY pleased that he said right out of the gate that he intends to be at Duke for at least another five years. I feel like at this point everything we get out of him is gravy. And the presser definitely makes it clear that he has a burning desire to continue winning and to be successful at the highest level with this program.

We used it for 3 games in a row (UVa, NC State, and @Miami). We blew out State and Miami and had a comfortable lead before almost losing to UVa.

We then didn't do it for the game vs FSU. We still blew them out. We didn't use it against Pitt either, and wound up blowing them out in probably our best performance of the year. Ditto against @Syracuse, where we almost won at their place. Then we blew out Wake and @BC. Then we squeaked by Maryland.

Following that game, we brought the line change back out for a game against GT (presumably as a response to the close game against Maryland), and blew Tech out. We did not use it in the loss @UNC, nor did we use it in the win over Syracuse. Nor did we use it in the blowout of VT or in the loss at Wake.

We used it for the last time in the first half against UNC. It didn't seem to do much, so Coach K didn't use it in the second half when we pulled away.

So it appeared to be something that Coach K did to try to wake up the team. It seemed to work to wake us up against UVa. The next 3 times we used it were against pretty bad teams: State (at that point they were struggling), Miami, and GT. So I wouldn't glean much from that. We tried it one last time against UNC, but only for the first half. And the team didn't seem to respond to it, whereas in the second half we played much better. After that, it was tourney time, so Coach K scrapped the gimmicks and went back to the norm.

All in all, I think the line changes were a fun change of pace. But I don't think they would have saved us in the NCAA tourney.

Reilly
03-27-2014, 04:13 PM
... Those kids on that court needed to figure out how to win to keep playing. No one was looking off the court for guidance from Mommy or Daddy or whichever dude was their AAU coach - they figured out how to win themselves. ...

Somewhat related: is it in international ball that coaches must remain seated during live action? I like that -- have grown tired of head coaches stalking the sidelines, all-too-often stepping on the court, waving arms etc... Coach 'em up in practice, and strategize during the timeouts, otherwise let the players play (and figure out what to do w/out the coach breathing down their neck; coach can still yell instruction -- but from seated position).

Nugget
03-27-2014, 04:37 PM
[Yet again I'm having trouble with the "reply with quote" function when trying to quote bedeviled, but no such problem with any other poster this thread. So I'm putting bedeviled in with nmduke2001 as an Area 51/Roswell suspect.]

On bedeviled's comments re Quinn, and especially Krzyzewski's comment that Quinn's best talent is shooting - K has been quoted on some other thread as having said, maybe to Jabari: "It isn't personal. It's the truth." It appears that K gradually came to believe that Quinn was not an excellent PG. Yes, he made some wonderful alley-oop passes, but couldn't drive and dish, and was inconsistent even in getting the ball to Jabari with a simple 45-degree pass from out on the wing.

Coach Wojciechowski said at some point in the season, re Quinn's head-hanging, I think, that "Quinn has a big personality." I inferred that this referred to Quinn's heartfelt desire to make big plays, and to be a leader. I've no idea why he hasn't reached the potential he was thought to possess [passive voice here, to protect the innocent and the guilty]. Maybe his HS injury took away some explosiveness. Maybe his court vision/sense hasn't sufficiently improved in college.

Whatever, some big questions for Quinn going forward are: what does the staff now think the truth is about Quinn's strengths and weaknesses, how will that determine the role the staff sees for him during his senior year, and how will his "big personality" adapt?

On one of the Looking Forward threads, I opined that no matter who starts, Quinn would get 28-30 mpg. I don't interpret K's comments about Quinn and Tyus to mean that Quinn will get absolutely no minutes at PG, but it's pretty clear that as of this moment, the staff thinks Tyus will be the main PG. I've no problem seeing Quinn and Tyus play big minutes together, so far as O is concerned. D? I don't know. I've no problem with perimeter small-ball for some [but not big] minutes, so far as O is concerned. D? A problem.

I'd now, just now, guess that Quinn will not play 30 mpg, maybe more like 22-25, all the more likely if Justise - supposed to be a strong, smart defender - gets significant minutes as a traditional wing/SF. Or if Matt improves noticeably, and his minutes rise a bit, or a lot.

How will Quinn adapt to this emerging - not certain but likely - truth? Will Quinn, with his big personality, be, a la Andre, a happy senior? [By which I do not imply - so please do not infer - that he will be unhappy. Rather, I mean to say, how Quinn responds to the likelihood that he will not be "the PG for Duke" during his senior season promises to be a compelling story line going forward.]

I would hope that Quinn's situation could play out much like Nolan Smith's did -- and, indeed, would hope that Nolan (whom I recall from Quinn's recruitment had a very good, long-standing relationship with him) would reach out to Quinn about how to approach his last year at Duke. Nolan also came in expected (expecting?) to be a PG and, over time, it became clear that he was better playing off the ball, and eventually adjusted very successfully to that.

CDu
03-27-2014, 04:39 PM
I think you missed K's point. In pick up games, the winners keep the court. You win or sit. No one wants to sit. Different mentality than AAU where you play 3 or 4 games in a day, regardless.

-jk

I really don't think that was his point. At least I hope it wasn't, because I think that's a weak argument. I don't see how that would make much difference. In these AAU tournaments, you don't get championships (trophies) if you don't win. In pickup, if you lose, you lose the court - temporarily. But you get right back in line and you get to play again in like 10-15 minutes. Even with losses, you can easily play 5-6 games in an hour or two. Neither has a big impact, in my opinion, on the desire to win or lose.

Nor do I think either has a significantly different impact on a player's leadership skills. I don't think that "making rules" and "picking teams" builds leaders. I think that is just a fluff statement from Coach K. Tyler Thornton is one of the best leaders Coach K has coached. Didn't he come up playing in the AAU environment?

Conversely, how many freshmen from the pre-AAU era can we say were clearly ready to be leaders? Not Hill, Hurley, Laettner, or Dawkins. Hurley was a very advanced freshman, but he was not ready to lead and committed a ton of turnovers. Thankfully, he had veterans like Henderson and Abdelnaby and Brickey along with a rising talent like Laettner to take the pressure off. Hill had talented sophomores Hurley, Hill, and McCaffrey and juniors Laettner and Davis to allow him to grow as a player as a freshman. Dawkins didn't have that strong veteran guidance when he was a freshman. The result? An 11-17 season. But that experience helped him (and others) grow into a leader so that by his senior year he led a championship contender.

So where are these examples of freshmen being ready to lead back in the good ole' pre-AAU days? Because it seems to me that leadership today is achieved the same way as it has almost always has been: kids learn to become leaders during their time in college. And it is a very rare case that an 18 year old arrives on campus ready to be a leader.

RepoMan
03-27-2014, 05:33 PM
I agree with whoever said the most amazing thing about the press conference is that it happened. An HOUR long press conference, with no particular agenda item, and K comfortably discussing an array of topics debated endlessly by Duke fans? Who'd have thunk it. If you just read the transcript, I recommend watching it -- you can really pick up some subtleties. We are so fortunate.

ice-9
03-28-2014, 12:06 AM
I really don't think that was his point. At least I hope it wasn't, because I think that's a weak argument. I don't see how that would make much difference. In these AAU tournaments, you don't get championships (trophies) if you don't win. In pickup, if you lose, you lose the court - temporarily. But you get right back in line and you get to play again in like 10-15 minutes. Even with losses, you can easily play 5-6 games in an hour or two. Neither has a big impact, in my opinion, on the desire to win or lose.

Nor do I think either has a significantly different impact on a player's leadership skills. I don't think that "making rules" and "picking teams" builds leaders. I think that is just a fluff statement from Coach K. Tyler Thornton is one of the best leaders Coach K has coached. Didn't he come up playing in the AAU environment?

Conversely, how many freshmen from the pre-AAU era can we say were clearly ready to be leaders? Not Hill, Hurley, Laettner, or Dawkins. Hurley was a very advanced freshman, but he was not ready to lead and committed a ton of turnovers. Thankfully, he had veterans like Henderson and Abdelnaby and Brickey along with a rising talent like Laettner to take the pressure off. Hill had talented sophomores Hurley, Hill, and McCaffrey and juniors Laettner and Davis to allow him to grow as a player as a freshman. Dawkins didn't have that strong veteran guidance when he was a freshman. The result? An 11-17 season. But that experience helped him (and others) grow into a leader so that by his senior year he led a championship contender.

So where are these examples of freshmen being ready to lead back in the good ole' pre-AAU days? Because it seems to me that leadership today is achieved the same way as it has almost always has been: kids learn to become leaders during their time in college. And it is a very rare case that an 18 year old arrives on campus ready to be a leader.


I think he's saying in a pick-up environment where there's no structure, a leader usually emerges to create one.

Is this strong enough to show a statistical correlation? Don't know. I'm sure AAU players also play a ton of pick-up basketball. Philosophically though I understand the spirit of his statement.

chaosmage
03-28-2014, 01:07 AM
I don't have the numbers, nor the time to crunch them (grad school), nor the memory of the games it was used in. That being said - is it possible K used the line changes as the two teams playing "against" each other in a "winner keeps the court" scenario like he described? I'm fond of putting together nothing out of something.. so here goes.

If the starting five were on the floor, did the other five come in to spell them, or was the switch meant to get a point across that something wasn't happening.. regardless of the scoreboard. I've done that in the classroom, when I have a group playing extremely well, and another class that needs motivation. I have two beginner band classes, and the pages of the book for each class are on the board. It's become a race, and it's getting the job done. As a coach, K wants to win. But he also needs to teach. So even if the other team is losing, do you switch out the squad to make a point? I recall a few occasions where the second team played better than the first, but I have no correlation methodology to tie it to.

Possible? Not possible? Conspiracy theory? Bull pockey? Food coma ramblings? :-)

Double DD
03-28-2014, 01:23 AM
As for Okafor, I'm not sure that I'd say he's necessarily dominant on the defensive end. He certainly isn't going to get pushed around out there, and he's undoubtedly going to be a strong rebounder. Heck, maybe he'll even be a shot-changer with his size. But he's not exactly the quickest or most explosive of big men. If we ask him to play hedge and recover defense, is he going to be able to get out on the ballhandler and still have the quickness to recover to the paint? Is he going to have the lateral quickness to handle switches whenever they occur? Is he going to be any more prepared than Parker was in terms of team defensive concepts?

I have high expectations for Okafor, just like I did for Parker. But I'm not sure I'm ready to say he'll be a dominant presence on both ends of the floor just yet.

That being said, I can't imagine a better offensive partnership at PF/C than Parker and Okafor. So even if the two could be adequate in terms of defense, that would be an absolutely amazing front line. But I suspect that will be the stuff of dreams rather than reality.

I think your assessment of Okafor seems in line with most scouting reports and what I've seen of him.

http://www.draftexpress.com#ixzz2xEP2A4dp


Defensively, Okafor is a major presence inside thanks to his terrific frame and 7-3 wingspan, but his lack of experience shows much more on this end of the floor than it does offensively. He has a difficult time stepping out onto the perimeter due to his average lateral quickness, and isn't much of a rim protector as he does not possess tremendous explosiveness rotating over from the weak-side. He is a very good rebounder, though, doing a nice job cleaning up the glass on both ends of the floor.


There's potential defensively but he's probably not going to be Anthony Davis or Greg Oden on that end. Offense is probably where he's going to make the biggest impact.

RepoMan
03-28-2014, 08:30 AM
I keep thinking about the press conference.

Can you imagine the gibberish you would hear in a 1 hour Roy Williams press conference?

jv001
03-28-2014, 09:18 AM
I really don't think that was his point. At least I hope it wasn't, because I think that's a weak argument. I don't see how that would make much difference. In these AAU tournaments, you don't get championships (trophies) if you don't win. In pickup, if you lose, you lose the court - temporarily. But you get right back in line and you get to play again in like 10-15 minutes. Even with losses, you can easily play 5-6 games in an hour or two. Neither has a big impact, in my opinion, on the desire to win or lose.

Nor do I think either has a significantly different impact on a player's leadership skills. I don't think that "making rules" and "picking teams" builds leaders. I think that is just a fluff statement from Coach K. Tyler Thornton is one of the best leaders Coach K has coached. Didn't he come up playing in the AAU environment?

Conversely, how many freshmen from the pre-AAU era can we say were clearly ready to be leaders? Not Hill, Hurley, Laettner, or Dawkins. Hurley was a very advanced freshman, but he was not ready to lead and committed a ton of turnovers. Thankfully, he had veterans like Henderson and Abdelnaby and Brickey along with a rising talent like Laettner to take the pressure off. Hill had talented sophomores Hurley, Hill, and McCaffrey and juniors Laettner and Davis to allow him to grow as a player as a freshman. Dawkins didn't have that strong veteran guidance when he was a freshman. The result? An 11-17 season. But that experience helped him (and others) grow into a leader so that by his senior year he led a championship contender.

So where are these examples of freshmen being ready to lead back in the good ole' pre-AAU days? Because it seems to me that leadership today is achieved the same way as it has almost always has been: kids learn to become leaders during their time in college. And it is a very rare case that an 18 year old arrives on campus ready to be a leader.

The main point I took from Coach K's comments on AAU basketball, was that playing AAU basketball the guys develop an individual attitude rather than a team attitude. He said a player would ask another player, how many points did you get in your last game and the response was 6 but I'll get more points next game. I believe this to be true and coupled with being the big man on campus in high school, players are putting offense way out in front of defense. Even Calipari has said the same thing about his team this year. I agree with CDu that players develop leadership skills by playing more that one year. And I agree with Coach K, a leader needs to be a starter or a player that plays 30+ minutes in games. It was apparent Duke didn't have that leader this past year. The players Coach K named who were outstanding leaders in past years: Shane, Christian, Jon, Nolan and Zoubs were 4 year players. They developed leadership skills. They didn't have those skills coming out of high school. I'm wondering who will step up this year. Rasheed, Quinn,or Amile? Someone better take the lead or it could be another year without a clear cut leader. GoDuke

johnb
03-28-2014, 09:48 AM
My take homes:

I'll be at duke until at least when current high school juniors graduate (and long past when hs sophomore stars will go pro)

we're not finished recruiting for the year.

you'd have to be stupid to turn down a potential 1 year player.

Jabari could still stick around but that it would be a big time decision.

Tyus is next year's PG.

Quinn will compete for 2G minutes and play back-up PG (which worked well, btw, for Johnny Dawkins, Jay Williams, and Nolan Smith when they moved from PG to 2G)..

Jahlil, Tyus, and Rasheed better practice their on-court communication

******

I'm guessing 20% chance for Jabari to return, and a 50% chance we get Myles. I know the prevailing wisdom is for us to have neither on the team next year, but I'm unconvinced. Jabari may go with his gut feeling, his desire to be different, and his desire to live up to his own ideals rather than external expectation (ie, a big time decision), which could mean a sophomore year. And I haven't heard a single reason why it wouldn't be good for Myles to come to Duke; even if we already have a frontline of Jahlil, Jabari, Amile, and Marshall, he'd get 20-30 minutes a game, strong daily practices, and would get to avoid only playing center--which would be the case at most schools. The determining factor would, I'd guess, be his personal fit with us in comparison to, say, SMU or Kansas. But if he wants to come, no way we turn him down.

bedeviled
03-28-2014, 09:55 AM
The main point I took from Coach K's comments on AAU basketball, was that playing AAU basketball the guys develop an individual attitude rather than a team attitude. He said a player would ask another player, how many points did you get in your last game and the response was 6 but I'll get more points next gameI'm pretty certain that it is not just a subjective disagreement when I say that your impression is wrong. My apologies if you got this idea from my transcript - I didn't catch his inflection and I also might have missed a word/line or two trying to keep up with him. Watching him live, though, his dramatic portrayal of the "how many points did you get? I'll get more in the next game" saga did not display a challenge between two people (actually, watching it, I thought he might have been dialoguing a player with a parent, not necessarily two players). It was more like "8, but who cares? I've got another game later, so this one doesn't matter."

Troublemaker
03-28-2014, 10:05 AM
I keep thinking about the press conference.

I love how he seemed about 20 years younger than most of this season. Something about that blazer-and-no-tie look really worked, too.


Rasheed, Quinn,or Amile? Someone better take the lead or it could be another year without a clear cut leader. GoDuke

When Coach K talked about the potential for very good leadership next season, for some reason the guy I kept thinking of was Amile.

jv001
03-28-2014, 10:05 AM
I'm pretty certain that it is not just a subjective disagreement when I say that your impression is wrong. My apologies if you got this idea from my transcript - I didn't catch his inflection and I also might have missed a word/line or two trying to keep up with him. Watching him live, though, his dramatic portrayal of the "how many points did you get? I'll get more in the next game" saga did not display a challenge between two people (actually, watching it, I thought he might have been dialoguing a player with a parent, not necessarily two players). It was more like "8, but who cares? I've got another game later, so this one doesn't matter."

First, thanks for your transcript. I sporked you. I watched the presser and that's how I took Coach's comment on the AAU discussion. He might have meant the 2nd person on the conversation to be a parent, but I did get the feeling he was talking about individual play rather than team play and offense over defense. However if he didn't mean that to be the case, I feel like that's the issue with AAU basketball. Another thing is many of the players become good friends with players on opposing teams and that probably lessens the agony of defeat. This could carry over to college play as wellach K didn't mention that. That's my own opinion/2 cents, which will not buy anything these days. GoDuke!

bedeviled
03-28-2014, 10:10 AM
I watched the presser and that's how I took Coach's comment on the AAU discussionWell, okey-dokey, I stand corrected; it is a subjective disagreement. I didn't leave much room in my head for your perspective, but I'll try to give it more voice :)

johnb
03-28-2014, 11:43 AM
I love how he seemed about 20 years younger than most of this season. Something about that blazer-and-no-tie look really worked, too.

...When Coach K talked about the potential for very good leadership next season, for some reason the guy I kept thinking of was Amile.


I agree with the youthfulness. Between his brother and the team not performing up to its potential, it was probably a stressful year.

I'm not sure about Amile. He seems like a terrific guy and will start unless we also have Turner or Parker (and might start even then), but I think K was emphasizing that it was important to have the leader also be one of the best players (he mentioned the Laettners and Hurleys not the Billy Kings and Chris Carrawells, who were very good but not great--and, yes, I do recall their accolades, but neither he nor Billy had the national overall reputation K is talking about. Though I'd bet he'd like a national defensive POY about now...

I don't think it as a slam at Hood or Parker, though maybe it was a challenge, but I do think it was a message to our incoming freshmen that the team's success will depend on them not just playing their game but forcing their teammates to elevate their own games. Jahlil and Tyus seem to b the more likely team leaders under that scenario, along with Sheed, though I wouldn't count out Justise, who's name and skills make me think he could surprise on the upside. Of course, anyone could bounce up with 6 months of development.

Oh, and K certainly hadn't lost his competitiveness. Last year was a loss, but if you reframe things into 5 year bunches as he says he does, well, we look very good (and if you look in a half dozen five-year bunches, as in 30 years, we're dominant)

http://www.barkingcarnival.com/2014/3/27/5543436/a-fools-errand-texas-sized-expectations

I also liked his mention of Ohio recruiting. Was that a new recruit or just a subtle reminder that we just got a top 15 recruit who grew up bleeding Kentucky blue?

LobstersPinchPinch
03-28-2014, 12:00 PM
I'm guessing 20% chance for Jabari to return, and a 50% chance we get Myles. I know the prevailing wisdom is for us to have neither on the team next year, but I'm unconvinced. Jabari may go with his gut feeling, his desire to be different, and his desire to live up to his own ideals rather than external expectation (ie, a big time decision), which could mean a sophomore year. And I haven't heard a single reason why it wouldn't be good for Myles to come to Duke; even if we already have a frontline of Jahlil, Jabari, Amile, and Marshall, he'd get 20-30 minutes a game, strong daily practices, and would get to avoid only playing center--which would be the case at most schools. The determining factor would, I'd guess, be his personal fit with us in comparison to, say, SMU or Kansas. But if he wants to come, no way we turn him down.

On Turner, even should Jabari leave this year (I think he'll be back), I think we're probably a distant 4th to KU, Texas, and SMU. We did need a stretch 4, but inexplicably Looney went to UCLA.

killerleft
03-28-2014, 12:36 PM
Cook is such a strange case. There are times when he looks like a maestro at PG. But then he goes for games and games where he just looks like he's never run an offense before. Unfortunately, it has seemed like his best PG moments have come in November/December, and when ACC and NCAA play come he becomes less and less of a playmaking PG.

Hopefully the addition of Jones will take the pressure off of Cook. I still think he can be an effective playmaker. But maybe the burden of being the primary playmaker doesn't suit him? I don't know. I'm just hopeful that a Jones/Cook/Sulaimon trio can work magic next year as essentially a 3-man rotation at PG/SG. If Jones is as good as advertised and if Cook and Sulaimon can step up to All-ACC play, we may just be dynamite.

Sorry if this has been covered, but I am actually having to work hard today and can't keep up with threads. Anyway, I could see this happening. Quinn Cook is a special person. If Tyus Jones is as advertised, this would free Quinn up to do the things he does best, drive and shoot. When he's doing what he does best, Quinn Cook is a confidence machine. When Quinn Cook is a confidence machine, good things happen. Please, let Quinn Cook be a confindence machine. It beats trying to catch imaginary butterflies.

tommy
03-28-2014, 01:25 PM
First, thanks for your transcript. I sporked you. I watched the presser and that's how I took Coach's comment on the AAU discussion. He might have meant the 2nd person on the conversation to be a parent, but I did get the feeling he was talking about individual play rather than team play and offense over defense. However if he didn't mean that to be the case, I feel like that's the issue with AAU basketball. Another thing is many of the players become good friends with players on opposing teams and that probably lessens the agony of defeat. This could carry over to college play as wellach K didn't mention that. That's my own opinion/2 cents, which will not buy anything these days. GoDuke!

It may not buy anything, but I definitely agree with you. In watching the AAU ball that I've watched, a lot of these guys are friends, many of them close friends. They bond over their common experiences over a period of years. And there's no question that the agony of defeat in these settings isn't just lessened, but it essentially doesn't exist. Not just because it hurts less to lose to a friend, but as has been discussed already on this thread, there's another game in 2 hours, or four, or both. And I also concur with you that it could be carrying over, at least to a degree, to college ball.

greybeard
03-30-2014, 02:02 PM
I liked the larger message, but I think its one tied to an era that really no longer exists. In fact, its one where I'd love to hear a take from resident basketball philosopher and experienced youth coach, the one and only GREYBEARD!

In the old days, and we can argue over when this ended, kids played pick-up ball without ANY adults present. They made their way to the playground on bike, or on foot, or got dropped off, and formed up teams on their own. Two kids would be captains, naturally identified by their leadership in some tangible and intangible way, and the games would commence. Those kids on that court needed to figure out how to win to keep playing. No one was looking off the court for guidance from Mommy or Daddy or whichever dude was their AAU coach - they figured out how to win themselves. In that crucible, leaders emerged organically.

Now, because of uber parental supervision - both warranted in many cases and not in most others - this kind of dynamic doesn't happen. When kids meet up to play, adults are present. When adults are present, kids look to adults for guidance. Whichever adult cares enough to be the supervisor of the gym-time experience probably has a kid on the court, and that adult is going to tell that kid what to do. If the adult is coaching the AAU team, then his kid becomes a leader because the empowers the kid through nepotism-driven playing time, etc.

I think that's what K is talking about, leaders that emerge because they have inherent leadership ability that they develop organically - not because an adult blesses them with it.

Wow! Great stuff. Comports with my own experience and what I heard from a friend who Larry Brown had coached was also Brown's.

What for me was most significant was the diversity of play. You showed up at the court for a couple of hours and played on and against any number of "teams"--you lost, two new guys had shown up and had next before you, or guys had left, and they pick up players, which changes the composition of teams down the line. As a consequence, not stuck in a role, certainly none foisted upon you by an authoritative person. You played different styles, found ways to be impactful within a new group, sometimes leading, sometimes fitting in. Someone started playing inside calling for the ball, then invited with eyes for others to cut across or dive or screen away, pick and rolls were create, sets were initiated from the outside, tempos were changed, defenses, you learned by playing and watching, picking up new things/concepts that you went home and practiced with imagination. Tremendous environment for having fun with the game and for learning.