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SoCalDukeFan
03-24-2014, 05:11 PM
I don't have HBO but am pretty sure I will get good summary info here.

Looks like an interesting show. Not sure if anything new will come up but the more publicity the better.

Here is a link to teaser.

http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel#/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/episodes/0/204-episode/video/204-higher-education.html/eNrjcmbO0CzLTEnNd8xLzKksyUx2zs8rSa0oYc5Xz89JgQkGJK an+iXmpjIXsjFyMjKyMbJJJ5aW5BfkJFbalhSVpgIAV3AXOA==

SoCal

moonpie23
03-24-2014, 05:51 PM
awesome …..keep the heat on!!!!

weezie
03-24-2014, 06:01 PM
Oh boy! Can't wait! Swahili!

ricks68
03-24-2014, 09:08 PM
I need to set my recorder right now. The ironic thing about this is that I would bet that if there was a course in Swahili at Duke, it would be extremely demanding, really tough, and one to avoid if one did not have plans on needing to constantly use it.

ricdks

(I was going to edit my sig, but I thought that I will leave it because it may actually be the way it is spelled in Swahili. Is there anyone out there from UNCCH that can help me out here? No? I didn't think so.)

CatDevil
03-24-2014, 10:42 PM
Looks like this could get ugly. Guess we will know more tomorrow night at 10pm. Will the UNC admin be held accountable for cheating or get a pass....again?

77devil
03-24-2014, 11:17 PM
My understanding is that the segment on Real Sports is about academic issues with major sport athletes in the power conferences generally and is not devoted to UNC. I expect UNC will be front and center because it's current, but if it's a typical 20 minute segment, they'll move pretty quickly to the broader issue.

Mary Willingham was interviewed and presumably she will use the opportunity to reiterate her findings and criticize the administration. Will the UNC PR wizards spin the next day or lay low?

throatybeard
03-25-2014, 12:58 AM
When is this? I have HBO, but the earliest I could see Real Sports was like five or six days from now.

BigWayne
03-25-2014, 03:58 AM
When is this? I have HBO, but the earliest I could see Real Sports was like five or six days from now.

Supposed to be Tuesday night at 10PM EDT.
http://www.hbo.com/#/real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel/episodes/0/204-episode/synopsis/march-on-real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel.html

4020

miramar
03-25-2014, 10:20 AM
The whole thing seems to be a devastating attack on UNC athletics and academics at first glance, but then the whole thing falls apart because Mary Willingham comes on and says it was a scam and we all know she is a liar (because the UNC administration says so).

Ironically, the two players seem to be good guys who could babysit your grandkids, so why didn't UNC try to get them a proper education?

To be fair to ol' Roy, he said any of the players that he recruited over ten years "you would take home with you and let you guard your grandchildren," which may only mean in pickup basketball games in the driveway. You certainly wouldn't allow them to drive your kids around Chapel Hill, unless you want them in the same car with someone who drives 93 mph with a suspended license and drugs in the car, and probably listening to ear-splitting music in Swahili to boot.

Mudge
03-25-2014, 11:08 AM
I need to set my recorder right now. The ironic thing about this is that I would bet that if there was a course in Swahili at Duke, it would be extremely demanding, really tough, and one to avoid if one did not have plans on needing to constantly use it.
ricdks

(I was going to edit my sig, but I thought that I will leave it because it may actually be the way it is spelled in Swahili. Is there anyone out there from UNCCH that can help me out here? No? I didn't think so.)

I'm not sure I understand all the UNC/Swahili references in this thread, but ironically, I have personal knowledge of a Duke grad who has had to learn Swahili to aid the development of his Silicon Valley-funded start-up business in Africa-- it wasn't a requirement, but it made it better/easier to facilitate various business-related conversations over there... apparently, there are several grades of Swahili (just as there are several grades of English below the King's English that one might consider "proper"), and some countries over there tend to speak the more bastardized versions of it that get labeled as "Swanglish"-- and are looked down upon (or should I say "askance") by those other countries that tend to speak the more formal versions of the language.

Mudge
03-25-2014, 11:21 AM
Don't know if this merits a separate thread (or if anyone else even saw this), but Carson Daly's late night show, Later, featured about a 5-7 minute interview last night with Duke's Jason Williams, in which he talks about the challenges he faces/d in becoming competent at his new primary profession of sportscaster, as well as the challenges he faced when he destroyed his leg and his career in his motorcycle accident-- as he has said elsewhere, he now calls it "the best thing to ever happen to [him]"... knowing that he has said that he contemplated committing suicide, in the depths of depression caused by his accident, that is a pretty strong statement...

I guess this is related, in that it is an example of another person (who also would have been a UNC basketball player, had they not rejected him first, according to his statements in this piece-- and elsewhere) rising above a major setback and adversity, to make lemonade out of lemons-- maybe these guys who have strayed from the regulator-approved path at UNC will find a way to do likewise...

Atlanta Duke
03-25-2014, 11:28 AM
Bernard Goldberg: What language did you study?
Bryan Bishop: Swahili
Bernard Goldberg: Swahili ... (pause for effect) ... That come in handy since you graduated?

http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-...SVpgIAXbkXOA==

But in her blog post regarding tonight's show Laura Keeley of the N&O peddles the everyone does it response

Living in this area makes it easy to stare at the tree and miss the forest—UNC is not the only school that has compromised its academic standards in attempts to keep athletes eligible. In reality, there is a nationwide failure to properly educate the athletes colleges have recruited for athletic purposes.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/...#storylink=cpy

Some trees are saplings - others are redwoods

flyingdutchdevil
03-25-2014, 11:48 AM
Bernard Goldberg: What language did you study?
Bryan Bishop: Swahili
Bernard Goldberg: Swahili ... (pause for effect) ... That come in handy since you graduated?

http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-...SVpgIAXbkXOA==

But in her blog post regarding tonight's show Laura Keeley of the N&O peddles the everyone does it response

Living in this area makes it easy to stare at the tree and miss the forest—UNC is not the only school that has compromised its academic standards in attempts to keep athletes eligible. In reality, there is a nationwide failure to properly educate the athletes colleges have recruited for athletic purposes.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/...#storylink=cpy

Some trees are saplings - others are redwoods

Thanks for posting the link. I just watched the preview. Definitely going home and watching the whole documentary today.

In those 2 minutes, I absolutely, 100% sympathize with the kids. They didn't say it, but I'm sure they felt cheated. Maybe not at the time, but certainly now after some reflection.

UNC Athletics Department - shame on you. Absolutely pathetic.

DukieInKansas
03-25-2014, 11:55 AM
Bernard Goldberg: What language did you study?
Bryan Bishop: Swahili
Bernard Goldberg: Swahili ... (pause for effect) ... That come in handy since you graduated?

http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-...SVpgIAXbkXOA==

But in her blog post regarding tonight's show Laura Keeley of the N&O peddles the everyone does it response

Living in this area makes it easy to stare at the tree and miss the forest—UNC is not the only school that has compromised its academic standards in attempts to keep athletes eligible. In reality, there is a nationwide failure to properly educate the athletes colleges have recruited for athletic purposes.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/...#storylink=cpy

Some trees are saplings - others are redwoods

Just because there may be other trees in the forest, doesn't mean you should ignore the "diseased" tree. It is better to remove the infected tree to benefit the rest of the forest.

miramar
03-25-2014, 11:56 AM
I'm not sure I understand all the UNC/Swahili references in this thread, but ironically, I have personal knowledge of a Duke grad who has had to learn Swahili to aid the development of his Silicon Valley-funded start-up business in Africa-- it wasn't a requirement, but it made it better/easier to facilitate various business-related conversations over there... apparently, there are several grades of Swahili (just as there are several grades of English below the King's English that one might consider "proper"), and some countries over there tend to speak the more bastardized versions of it that get labeled as "Swanglish"-- and are looked down upon (or should I say "askance") by those other countries that tend to speak the more formal versions of the language.

We make a lot of Swahili references because that was one of the common phantom classes at UNC. The Duke grad "had to learn Swahili," while the UNC people didn't even have to show up to class to earn a passing grade.

BigWayne
03-25-2014, 12:00 PM
We make a lot of Swahili references because that was one of the common phantom classes at UNC. The Duke grad "had to learn Swahili," while the UNC people didn't even have to show up to class to earn a passing grade.

That and it comes up twice in the teaser clip for the HBO show.

BigWayne
03-25-2014, 12:05 PM
Bernard Goldberg: What language did you study?
Bryan Bishop: Swahili
Bernard Goldberg: Swahili ... (pause for effect) ... That come in handy since you graduated?

http://www.hbo.com/real-sports-with-...SVpgIAXbkXOA==

But in her blog post regarding tonight's show Laura Keeley of the N&O peddles the everyone does it response

Living in this area makes it easy to stare at the tree and miss the forest—UNC is not the only school that has compromised its academic standards in attempts to keep athletes eligible. In reality, there is a nationwide failure to properly educate the athletes colleges have recruited for athletic purposes.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/...#storylink=cpy

Some trees are saplings - others are redwoods
N&O link above didn't work, but found it here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/24/3730021/hbos-real-sports-with-bryant-gumbel.html

Interesting that the comments are so far running heavily against UNC. The apologists haven't found it yet.

Bluedog
03-25-2014, 12:15 PM
I agree that there is a failure in many administrations to properly educate athletes, but I'm going to take a slightly different viewpoint for a second playing a bit of devil's advocate just for argument's sake...Some of these athletes are ill-equipped to succeed in the classroom at many universities across the country as they have not been prepared in elementary and high school (some would argue about self-accountability here too, but clearly some high school systems simply are abysmal). Should a supposed top notch university really admit somebody like that in the first place? (I'm not saying this applies to the UNC athletes interviews in the above clip, but speaking more generally.)

What is worse - giving a student-athlete a full ride and at least some opportunity to grow academically while playing in a sport that excel in OR simply getting rebuked completely by higher education OR admitting the student into an environment in which they have no chance of success academically? Is it the university's responsibility to have a full-fledged team of tutors and support staff to make sure athletes can muster grades in the classroom, but not for the rest of its students? I'm not saying it's so black-and-white and just throwing out some hypotheticals. Almost every school I know has a large percentage of its football players enrolled in similar subject areas (known as clustering) and nearly always to supposedly "easier" majors. I suppose it's okay if the athletes choose it on their own and aren't funneled in a certain direction - and, of course, if the subject matter actually has substance and isn't composed of fake classes.

cspan37421
03-25-2014, 01:38 PM
Hopefully this won't get me put on holiday.

We all have had a great many laughs about players being guided into Swahili, among other classes, at UNC-CH. The players in the video said they didn't pick the class, it was picked for them.

Awhile ago I posted (and so did bluedog) that Kyle Singler, while still a student, mentioned on the Dan Patrick Show that he was taking Wolof, a language spoken in Senegal. In the interview, he declined to say anything significant in the language, except for hello and goodbye. OK. Well, a quick search of Wolof and Duke turned up this video featuring FB WR Braxton:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205243842

On the plus side, the class is actually meeting, and the students are actually speaking it in class! Whew. So that's good. It's not a no-show class.

But I found it curious that:

The class is entirely athletes, save for a fellow in his late 40s.
The class is held in the K Center. How many non-athletes have classes there?
BB said: "This is the only light of day we see, to come back outside at 5:15" - ??
Wolof has not been offered since the 2011-12 academic year, and then only in summer term, according to
https://registrar.duke.edu/wolof [all of a sudden it's irrelevant?]

I suppose legit answers to the first three questions might relate to the nature of what Duke students attend summer session, and what summer session can be like. But there can be other answers too, ones not so creditable.

But when you hear the Real Sports guy (Goldberg?) asking how useful Swahili has been, ask yourself, why did so many of our own athletes decide upon Wolof? Why weren't non-athletes taking it? Why take Wolof instead of, say, Spanish? I can think of answers our rivals and detractors might suggest.

DukieInKansas
03-25-2014, 01:52 PM
Hopefully this won't get me put on holiday.

We all have had a great many laughs about players being guided into Swahili, among other classes, at UNC-CH. The players in the video said they didn't pick the class, it was picked for them.

Awhile ago I posted (and so did bluedog) that Kyle Singler, while still a student, mentioned on the Dan Patrick Show that he was taking Wolof, a language spoken in Senegal. In the interview, he declined to say anything significant in the language, except for hello and goodbye. OK. Well, a quick search of Wolof and Duke turned up this video featuring FB WR Braxton:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205243842

On the plus side, the class is actually meeting, and the students are actually speaking it in class! Whew. So that's good. It's not a no-show class.

But I found it curious that:

The class is entirely athletes, save for a fellow in his late 40s.
The class is held in the K Center. How many non-athletes have classes there?
BB said: "This is the only light of day we see, to come back outside at 5:15" - ??
Wolof has not been offered since the 2011-12 academic year, and then only in summer term, according to
https://registrar.duke.edu/wolof [all of a sudden it's irrelevant?]

I suppose legit answers to the first three questions might relate to the nature of what Duke students attend summer session, and what summer session can be like. But there can be other answers too, ones not so creditable.

But when you hear the Real Sports guy (Goldberg?) asking how useful Swahili has been, ask yourself, why did so many of our own athletes decide upon Wolof? Why weren't non-athletes taking it? Why take Wolof instead of, say, Spanish? I can think of answers our rivals and detractors might suggest.

Where did the group of football players go in Africa to dig a well? Can't remember if it was Senegal or not.

cspan37421
03-25-2014, 03:46 PM
Where did the group of football players go in Africa to dig a well? Can't remember if it was Senegal or not.

12 days in Ethiopia, apparently.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/05/22/2083057/duke-football-players-talk-about.html

But even if it was Senegal ... do you need a second course in Wolof for 12 days of well-digging and brief interactions with locals?

rasputin
03-25-2014, 06:13 PM
12 days in Ethiopia, apparently.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/05/22/2083057/duke-football-players-talk-about.html

But even if it was Senegal ... do you need a second course in Wolof for 12 days of well-digging and brief interactions with locals?

The digging that UNC has been doing has been going on for way more than 12 days.

Duvall
03-25-2014, 06:45 PM
Hopefully this won't get me put on holiday.

We all have had a great many laughs about players being guided into Swahili, among other classes, at UNC-CH. The players in the video said they didn't pick the class, it was picked for them.

Awhile ago I posted (and so did bluedog) that Kyle Singler, while still a student, mentioned on the Dan Patrick Show that he was taking Wolof, a language spoken in Senegal. In the interview, he declined to say anything significant in the language, except for hello and goodbye. OK. Well, a quick search of Wolof and Duke turned up this video featuring FB WR Braxton:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205243842

On the plus side, the class is actually meeting, and the students are actually speaking it in class! Whew. So that's good. It's not a no-show class.

But I found it curious that:

The class is entirely athletes, save for a fellow in his late 40s.
The class is held in the K Center. How many non-athletes have classes there?
BB said: "This is the only light of day we see, to come back outside at 5:15" - ??
Wolof has not been offered since the 2011-12 academic year, and then only in summer term, according to
https://registrar.duke.edu/wolof [all of a sudden it's irrelevant?]

I suppose legit answers to the first three questions might relate to the nature of what Duke students attend summer session, and what summer session can be like. But there can be other answers too, ones not so creditable.

But when you hear the Real Sports guy (Goldberg?) asking how useful Swahili has been, ask yourself, why did so many of our own athletes decide upon Wolof? Why weren't non-athletes taking it? Why take Wolof instead of, say, Spanish? I can think of answers our rivals and detractors might suggest.

First of all, Goldberg is a douche for suggesting that the value of a foreign language should be measured by its utility. (And doubly a douche given that Swahili is spoken by 140 million people.)

Looking back, this seems like it's always been a thinly attended couple of courses taught by a single instructor. I doubt there's much of a mystery here.

Atlanta Duke
03-25-2014, 08:08 PM
First of all, Goldberg is a douche for suggesting that the value of a foreign language should be measured by its utility. (And doubly a douche given that Swahili is spoken by 140 million people.)

Looking back, this seems like it's always been a thinly attended couple of courses taught by a single instructor. I doubt there's much of a mystery here.

In fairness to Goldberg, it appears based on the other questions in the 2 minute segment that the emphasis in the piece is on the players being told what courses to take. It is one thing if a student voluntarily selects courses or a major with a lower value in the immediate post-graduation job market (like me - I majored in political science but assumed I was going straight to law school by the time I selected that major after my terrifying encounter with organic chemistry ended my pre-med career). Although a big part of justifying the cost of a college education these days is that it prepares you for a harsh job market, there is the perhaps touching concept of learning for the sake of learning as opposed to college as trade school with a better social life.

It is quite another when the university is telling you what to take with the presumed knowledge that Swahili and the AFAM major selected for the player will be of virtually no value to that player after the athletic department has used him up and he is on his own.

Henderson
03-25-2014, 11:00 PM
First of all, Goldberg is a douche for suggesting that the value of a foreign language should be measured by its utility. (And doubly a douche given that Swahili is spoken by 140 million people.)


Agree absolutely on that point. The irony is that there probably isn't a single uncch athlete among those 140 million.

BigWayne
03-26-2014, 02:56 AM
New video on ESPN OTL also.... http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10671809

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-26-2014, 07:49 AM
New video on ESPN OTL also.... http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10671809
Ouch. "...I can still see the faces of all the athletes that I worked with that we cheated out of what we promised them, a real education..."

moonpie23
03-26-2014, 09:56 AM
ok...look....how much more hard core can it get? geez.....she just called out EVERYONE!!!!!!! (http://www.tubechop.com/watch/2406810)

blazindw
03-26-2014, 09:56 AM
Hopefully this won't get me put on holiday.

We all have had a great many laughs about players being guided into Swahili, among other classes, at UNC-CH. The players in the video said they didn't pick the class, it was picked for them.

Awhile ago I posted (and so did bluedog) that Kyle Singler, while still a student, mentioned on the Dan Patrick Show that he was taking Wolof, a language spoken in Senegal. In the interview, he declined to say anything significant in the language, except for hello and goodbye. OK. Well, a quick search of Wolof and Duke turned up this video featuring FB WR Braxton:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205243842

On the plus side, the class is actually meeting, and the students are actually speaking it in class! Whew. So that's good. It's not a no-show class.

But I found it curious that:

The class is entirely athletes, save for a fellow in his late 40s.
The class is held in the K Center. How many non-athletes have classes there?
BB said: "This is the only light of day we see, to come back outside at 5:15" - ??
Wolof has not been offered since the 2011-12 academic year, and then only in summer term, according to
https://registrar.duke.edu/wolof [all of a sudden it's irrelevant?]

I suppose legit answers to the first three questions might relate to the nature of what Duke students attend summer session, and what summer session can be like. But there can be other answers too, ones not so creditable.

But when you hear the Real Sports guy (Goldberg?) asking how useful Swahili has been, ask yourself, why did so many of our own athletes decide upon Wolof? Why weren't non-athletes taking it? Why take Wolof instead of, say, Spanish? I can think of answers our rivals and detractors might suggest.

I had classes in Wilson Gym (obviously, well before the K Center was built). The classes I had there were a good mix of students and student-athletes. Class locations can be changed and I bet that it was changed to the K Center once it was determined where most of the students in the class would be coming from (athletics), they switched it to a more convenient location for all the students but the one.

oldnavy
03-26-2014, 09:57 AM
Ouch. "...I can still see the faces of all the athletes that I worked with that we cheated out of what we promised them, a real education..."

Well, don't feel too bad for them, they all have potential careers in children's day care and babysitting....

Lord Ash
03-26-2014, 10:58 AM
A shame that the HBO focus on terrible academics might serve to distract from the OTHER story over at the Hill... the rampant CHEATING.

Two VERY different stories.



One, about what education for athletes should and does consist of across all schools. HBO covered this.

Two, about UNC in particular cheating to keep athletes eligible.

Don't ever let people forget that there are two stories here.

SharkD
03-26-2014, 11:24 AM
But I found it curious that:

The class is entirely athletes, save for a fellow in his late 40s.
The class is held in the K Center. How many non-athletes have classes there?
BB said: "This is the only light of day we see, to come back outside at 5:15" - ??
Wolof has not been offered since the 2011-12 academic year, and then only in summer term, according to
https://registrar.duke.edu/wolof [all of a sudden it's irrelevant?]

I suppose legit answers to the first three questions might relate to the nature of what Duke students attend summer session, and what summer session can be like. But there can be other answers too, ones not so creditable.

But when you hear the Real Sports guy (Goldberg?) asking how useful Swahili has been, ask yourself, why did so many of our own athletes decide upon Wolof? Why weren't non-athletes taking it? Why take Wolof instead of, say, Spanish? I can think of answers our rivals and detractors might suggest.

Wolof was offered at Duke from 2006-onward, though support of the Department of Education's Title VI National Resource Center grant for the Center for International Studies. For the 2011-2012 academic year, it was to be offered at the 3rd year level, which is the minimum to allow a language to count towards the Trinity College foreign language requirement (else, it's simply an elective). Wolof classes were held in the John Hope Franklin Center for Interdisciplinary and International Studies, save for the 2011 Summer sessions, which were held in the K Center.

Following an unexpected 70% across-the-board cut (https://today.duke.edu/2011/05/titlevi)* in the Department of Education's nationwide NRC funding, due to Congressional budget games, beginning with FY2012 (the second fiscal year of the 4-year NRC grant cycle), Wolof was cut, alongside other programs at Duke's six International and Area Studies NRCs, as well as the CIBER at Fuqua (http://today.duke.edu/2010/08/titlevi.html). (It was offered in the 2011 Summer Sessions because the Federal Grant funding cycle completes on August 14, each year and does not conform to Duke's academic calendar.)

Ironically, part of the Provost office's justification for cutting Wolof was that UNC-CH offered Swahili and, thus, an African language was still available to Duke students, through the academic consortium.

* As noted in the article, the reduction was slightly more than 40% of the total NRC/FLAS grant award, but given the fixed-costs associated tin FLAS, the NRC programs bore most of the budget cuts for FY2012, FY2013 and FY2014.

Dukeface88
03-26-2014, 11:42 AM
First of all, Goldberg is a douche for suggesting that the value of a foreign language should be measured by its utility. (And doubly a douche given that Swahili is spoken by 140 million people.)

Looking back, this seems like it's always been a thinly attended couple of courses taught by a single instructor. I doubt there's much of a mystery here.

Yeah, that was a cheap shot. I have a friend who gets significantly more use out of having learned Swahili than I get out of having learned German, or calc for that matter; she's an anthropologist who spends a lot of time on digs in Tanzania and Kenya. Incidentally, she also gave me this screen name (in high school, amusingly).

Relatedly, I don't see why it's a problem that Duke has Wolof classes. Remember, the important thing here is not "UNC is bad because they teach Swahili", it's "UNC is bad because they didn't teach Swahili".

Bluedog
03-26-2014, 11:48 AM
I had classes in Wilson Gym (obviously, well before the K Center was built). The classes I had there were a good mix of students and student-athletes. Class locations can be changed and I bet that it was changed to the K Center once it was determined where most of the students in the class would be coming from (athletics), they switched it to a more convenient location for all the students but the one.

Right, I've seen classes in Wilson - and any student can get into Wilson. However, only athletes have key card access to the K Center....maybe they give access to somebody if they have a class there, though. Would be incentive to enroll - access to "private" gym and tutoring rooms! ;)

blazindw
03-26-2014, 12:51 PM
Right, I've seen classes in Wilson - and any student can get into Wilson. However, only athletes have key card access to the K Center....maybe they give access to somebody if they have a class there, though. Would be incentive to enroll - access to "private" gym and tutoring rooms! ;)


Correct. I'm sure that an individual card would be granted access to the Center for purposes of attending the class (maybe with an hour window on either side of the class time frame).

Duvall
03-27-2014, 12:52 PM
Marcus Paige, company man. (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/athletes-speak-to-unc-trustees-about-academic-challenges/13516573/)


Board member Charles Duckett asked athletes on Thursday if they had ever been steered toward a particular major or course of study.

"There was definitely no one telling us what to do or even pushing us," Paige said. "When I came on my visit I really wanted to major in English. When I got here, I changed. No problem. They were very cool with it. They don't try to push you in any way. It's definitely a no."

OldPhiKap
03-27-2014, 01:09 PM
Marcus Paige, company man. (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/athletes-speak-to-unc-trustees-about-academic-challenges/13516573/)

Wasn't Paige on one of the All-Academic teams this year?

Paige may be a company man, but I think the kid is not one of the problem children that had to be diverted to remedial-level courses either.

Duvall
03-27-2014, 01:16 PM
Wasn't Paige on one of the All-Academic teams this year?

Paige may be a company man, but I think the kid is not one of the problem children that had to be diverted to remedial-level courses either.

I'm sure he isn't. That's why I'm skeptical that his experiences are representative of UNC athletes generally, particularly during the scandal years before his time.

El_Diablo
03-27-2014, 01:27 PM
Here's a screenshot of the one-paragraph "final paper" that earned an A- for some UNC athlete:

4039

(click to enlarge)

It seems like an average- to below-average second-grader wrote it.

CDu
03-27-2014, 01:28 PM
Wasn't Paige on one of the All-Academic teams this year?

Paige may be a company man, but I think the kid is not one of the problem children that had to be diverted to remedial-level courses either.

I've seen this mentioned before, but All-Academic honors just reflect that you have a good GPA and were a key member of your team. It does not necessarily mean you were a good student.

That's not to say Paige is or is not a good student. Just that GPA is not necessarily sufficient evidence of that. And yes, I'm admittedly sounding very cynical with this comment. But I think that cynicism is (unfortunately) justified.

gumbomoop
03-27-2014, 01:56 PM
.... I'm skeptical that his [Paige's] experiences are representative of UNC athletes generally, particularly during the scandal years before his time.

Amen. This dog-and-pony show says a lot about the BOT's desire to deflect attention from past sins. I especially appreciated one member's reference to "undeserved shots from the media." Wonder how he'll respond to the video linked by BigWayne in post #26 above. [If you haven't viewed this video, you really, really should. The A- paper is .... Well, if, as Willingham claims, "Everybody knew," then ......]

Speaking of everybody, hope the board asks Jan Boxill to appear at a future chat. They could ask whether in her long tenure as supervisor/coordinator she ever noticed anything amiss. And she might respond: "No, all that's come out totally shocked me, and contradicts everything I believe in and teach in my courses on ethics. Now, you might ask my husband, Bernard, who teaches courses in African American Political Thought. Maybe he taught some AFAM courses and knew Professor Nyang'Oro better than I. I can't remember."

Atlanta Duke
03-27-2014, 02:38 PM
The N&O story on today's presser states the new metric for academic achievement by revenue sports athletes at UNC-Chapel Hill

‘We all can read’

Paige said he studies with teammates and had never seen one who couldn’t read.

“Trust me, we all can read and write,” he said

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/27/3737124/unc-athletes-speak-up-about-their.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1#storylink=cpy

Lunchab1es
03-27-2014, 03:14 PM
Sure they can read and write, just not very well:

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/3/26/5552028/unc-academic-scandal-paper

plimnko
03-27-2014, 08:30 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/check-out-the-terrible-paper-that-earned-a-player-an-a--at-north-carolina-151005969.html

Reilly
03-27-2014, 08:52 PM
It's everywhere:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/03/27/the_unc_fake_class_scandal_athlete_got_an_a_for_a_ one_paragraph_paper.html

CameronBlue
03-27-2014, 08:58 PM
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/check-out-the-terrible-paper-that-earned-a-player-an-a--at-north-carolina-151005969.html

A-minus? Oh right, no annotation.

OldPhiKap
03-27-2014, 09:01 PM
Sure they can read and write, just not very well:

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/3/26/5552028/unc-academic-scandal-paper


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/check-out-the-terrible-paper-that-earned-a-player-an-a--at-north-carolina-151005969.html


It's everywhere:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/03/27/the_unc_fake_class_scandal_athlete_got_an_a_for_a_ one_paragraph_paper.html

This cannot be real. I call shenanigans until shown otherwise by a credible source.

CameronBlue
03-27-2014, 09:05 PM
It's everywhere:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/03/27/the_unc_fake_class_scandal_athlete_got_an_a_for_a_ one_paragraph_paper.html

Roy's gonna love this image: The story leads you to the assumption (and talk about crappy editing) that a football player was the author but an overhead shot from the ceiling of the Nose Dome accompanies the story.

(When the A/C runs full tilt on hot, humid days, condensate rains down from the rafters. Talk about nasal drip.)

blazindw
03-27-2014, 09:11 PM
This cannot be real. I call shenanigans until shown otherwise by a credible source.

The screenshot is from this:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10671809

Head to the 3:00 mark for the juice.

OldPhiKap
03-27-2014, 09:26 PM
The screenshot is from this:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=espn:10671809

Head to the 3:00 mark for the juice.

Thanks, will check after Dayton- Stanford ends. As you may have seen, I am big on sourcing and links for assertions. Much appreciated.

Reilly
03-27-2014, 09:28 PM
"Reading and writing is taught in the “workshop model” with students collaborating in small groups and with partners."

http://ges.chccs.k12.nc.us/group_profile_view.aspx?id=ee331095-10d3-49fe-b46b-0adf5420e565

OldPhiKap
03-27-2014, 09:28 PM
^^^. "Friends with benefits" -- helps with grades AND recruiting.

Reilly
03-27-2014, 09:30 PM
And shouldn't it be reading and writing *are* taught ... not *is* taught ... maybe the teachers (and website editors) went to UNC?

Atlanta Duke
03-27-2014, 09:39 PM
There has to be a 60 Minutes piece in the pipeline

Atlanta Duke
03-27-2014, 09:43 PM
And shouldn't it be reading and writing *are* taught ... not *is* taught ... maybe the teachers (and website editors) went to UNC?

Maybe it was intended to be disjunctive and state that students can elect to learn reading or writing. Reading and writing would be a double major at Chapel Hill.

cspan37421
03-27-2014, 09:44 PM
If the one-paragraph paper turns out to be a fake, it could be a clever plant. Without getting into PPB territory, there have been very successful political operatives who discovered that you could coat a weakness with teflon by producing a fake document that intially makes the subject look worse, but then when it is later debunked, the entire weakness itself is seen as a false impression, even if substantive points remain. The fake evidence makes people think all evidence has been faked.

It would be a clever (and diabolical) move by UNC to try this.

Reisen
03-28-2014, 10:01 AM
http://extramustard.si.com/2014/03/27/unc-athlete-classes-rosa-parks-paper/?eref=sihp

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bjr6eVVCYAAyS_j.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjwtPMrCQAEkt3n.jpg

cspan37421
03-28-2014, 10:14 AM
[Edit: Don't get TOO excited yet]

As I said in another thread, watch out for this being an easily-discredited hoax, and then for it to be used to try to discredit (in public perception) all the solid evidence accumulated thus far. Make no mistake, public opinion will affect how hard they go after Carolina.

Note that there's no name, date, or professor listed on the one-page paper.

Has there been any source cited, any "student" to whom this paper has been ascribed? Any claims regarding its provenance? Anything verified at all?

Til then, I don't give it any weight at all, as slightly amusing as it may be.

94duke
03-28-2014, 11:23 AM
[Edit: Don't get TOO excited yet]

As I said in another thread, watch out for this being an easily-discredited hoax, and then for it to be used to try to discredit (in public perception) all the solid evidence accumulated thus far. Make no mistake, public opinion will affect how hard they go after Carolina.

Note that there's no name, date, or professor listed on the one-page paper.

Has there been any source cited, any "student" to whom this paper has been ascribed? Any claims regarding its provenance? Anything verified at all?

Til then, I don't give it any weight at all, as slightly amusing as it may be.

Or...
Not only was it a horrible paper, but it was a horribly plagiarized paper.

brevity
03-28-2014, 11:47 AM
Provenance, schmovenance. Never let the truth get in the way of a good followup story...

UNC Athletics' Terrible Homework: A Brief Timeline (http://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/27/5553916/unc-athletics-terrible-homework-a-brief-timeline)

Disclaimer:


North Carolina has long been suspected of holding its athletes to loose academic standards. Now, we have proof, which we have completely made up.

I thought it couldn't possibly get funnier than Tyler Hansbrough's original short story. I was wrong.

gumbomoop
03-28-2014, 03:34 PM
Imported these from another thread, as they belong here and merit just a little more attention.


When they finally get "it" however, it's heart-warming. The way they bend their 6'8" bodies down to the plastic tub of books, grab one and then scamper over to the cozy recliner and climb up in it, and read all by themselves -- it's just really neat.

I want to compliment Reilly for a post the hilariousness of which derives from its series of cartoon panels. The panels depend on the words "bend," "plastic tub," "grab," "scamper, "cozy," "climb up," and "by themselves." Bookended, no less by "heart-warming" and "really neat."

It's a clever, precious, memorable cartoon.


I don't have a problem with the Carolina players, most of whom are fine academically.

I have much less patience with the presumably literate faculty and administration that allowed their circus act

And I encourage Reilly and johnb to collaborate on an editorial cartoon about the silent majority of the UNC faculty. Maybe Reilly and johnb could provide the visual addendum to Dan Kane's next expose. It will have to be both sophisticated and bloody, bloody obvious, the former to appeal to the intellectual bona fides of the faculty, and the latter to assure that they understand the cartoon's about them. The silent majority have yet fully to acknowledge the bloody obvious, so that second "bloody" is essential.

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-28-2014, 03:55 PM
[Edit: Don't get TOO excited yet]

As I said in another thread, watch out for this being an easily-discredited hoax, and then for it to be used to try to discredit (in public perception) all the solid evidence accumulated thus far. Make no mistake, public opinion will affect how hard they go after Carolina.

Note that there's no name, date, or professor listed on the one-page paper.

Has there been any source cited, any "student" to whom this paper has been ascribed? Any claims regarding its provenance? Anything verified at all?

Til then, I don't give it any weight at all, as slightly amusing as it may be.
But that was a "paper" Willingham had in her possession. How would they have planted a fake paper with her? It's not like the paper mysteriously appeared out of thin air and hit cyberspace from a completely anonymous source...

cspan37421
03-28-2014, 07:12 PM
But that was a "paper" Willingham had in her possession. How would they have planted a fake paper with her? It's not like the paper mysteriously appeared out of thin air and hit cyberspace from a completely anonymous source...

Well if that's the case, then my worries are unfounded. I thought maybe someone just randomly posted it, hoping to get a reaction. I was unaware that Willingham was the source.

Dr. Rosenrosen
03-28-2014, 08:17 PM
Well if that's the case, then my worries are unfounded. I thought maybe someone just randomly posted it, hoping to get a reaction. I was unaware that Willingham was the source.
It was the one she was holding and showed during the ESPN interview.

jv001
03-28-2014, 10:23 PM
This afternoon Paul Phinebaum(sp?) was on ESPN radio and a caller phoned in and brought up UNC's academic mess. Paul blasted UNC for it's academic fraud regarding student athletes. I was totally surprised to hear an ESPN sports host say the things he did about Carolina. They usually don't go there because of UNC's storied basketball program. Was great to hear. GoDuke!

-jk
03-28-2014, 10:44 PM
unc public records (http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/28/3741103/unc-ch-records-requests-soar.html) requests soar!

"In one recent test by University of Maryland journalism students and the Student Press Law Center, UNC-CH was the most unresponsive among dozens of public universities across the country. Last year, the students asked each university for the same 11 documents regarding the social media regulations for sports teams and athletic departments.

"Five months after the students requested the records, UNC-CH had not produced them. The documents were subsequently released two days after the students published their report."

Ah, obfuscation!

-jk

Newton_14
03-28-2014, 11:09 PM
unc public records (http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/03/28/3741103/unc-ch-records-requests-soar.html) requests soar!

"In one recent test by University of Maryland journalism students and the Student Press Law Center, UNC-CH was the most unresponsive among dozens of public universities across the country. Last year, the students asked each university for the same 11 documents regarding the social media regulations for sports teams and athletic departments.

"Five months after the students requested the records, UNC-CH had not produced them. The documents were subsequently released two days after the students published their report."

Ah, obfuscation!

-jk
Thats their history. Deflect, deny, withhold. Who, us? What was that you asked for again? Why would anyone want to see that? We can't share that info, it's private! What do you mean it's public information? We have students to hide!! err we mean Protect!!! Everybody else does this you know!! That lady we demoted to the basement said what? She's a liar! A liar I say! We are UNC!! We are above reproach kind sir!!! This lady should be silenced!!!:cool:

ricks68
03-29-2014, 01:19 AM
Does anyone know what kind of grade Steve Blake got for his paper that was posted here a number of years ago? I think that his paper was much, much worse than this one content-wise. There was no way his could have been plagiarized, however. ;)

found it:

Happy days at Johnny's

A young couple was walking down Main Street arguing with each other. The young lady got frustrated with her boyfriend and just walked away from him and went into a restaurant. He wanted to make up with her so he went in there after her. He met her inside and they waited for someone to help them find a seat. They where greeted by a young lady who was very kind and friendly. The hostess found them a comfortable booth and told them to have a good time. As they were sitting, they heard a song by Elvis being played throughout the whole restaurant. The couple looked at each other and smiled because they both really liked that song. The restaurant that this couple went to is in Florida and is called Johnny Rockets, a restaurant that brings people happiness.

The restaurant Johnny Rockets is a unique place. The colors of the restaurant are red, white, and yellow. On the outside there are some tables for customers to eat at. On the inside, there is a long bar were you can sit and eat by yourself and even watch the cooks make the food. At each booth there is a juke box for you to put a nickel in and select a song. There is also a straw holder that the waiter or waitress opens for you to get a straw as if you were a five-old kid. It makes many people happy to be waited on so well because you don't always get that. In the article Goodwill Hunting it says "'See?' Udemba says triumphantly. ' The Panthers didn't exist until the 1990s. So you know it wasn't made before that.'". The article tells us how you can tell what the date of something is by looking for something distinctive like the Panther head. By looking at Johnny Rockets you can tell it is resembling the 40s and 50s by the juke boxes. Johnny Rockets is definitely at the top of my list when it comes to service.

One of the main reasons why I like eating here so much is because of the upbeat atmosphere. With the friendly service of the waiters and waitresses and the singing and dancing they sometimes do makes this place just as fun as hanging out with your friends. This is a great place because it is the only one of its kind. I have yet to eat in another place like it. This restaurant takes us back to the 40's and 50's and reminds us how much fun they had back then. Johnny Rockets is like a time machine, it takes us back in time to see what it was like in the past. When you eat there, you realize how much fun you could have had if you lived back then. I think for an older person it helps them to remember what great times they had when they were younger. All age groups go and eat at this restaurant because it brings out the happiness in everyone. By having a restaurant like this, I think it shows how we haven't forgotten about what has happened back in the 40's and 50's.

The first Johnny Rockets opened on Melrose Avenue in Los Angeles on June 6, 1986. Ever since they have opened, they have been a big success. The only downfall of the restaurant is that you don't get much food. The burgers are not that big and you only get a small serving of fries. The burgers are about the size of McDonalds but the taste of Johnny Rockets is much better. One thing I do like is that you get a good amount of a chocolate shake if you order one. The prices at Johnny Rockets are a little high compared to a McDonalds or Burger King but are average compared to a Fridays or Applebee's. Like the movie Afluenza, people expect good service and good food from the big food chains, but once the get the service they are not satisfied. At Johnny Rockets your expectations are met. Although the amount of food you get is small and the price maybe above average, the taste of the food and the happiness the store brings you makes it worth it to go there.

I love the way the restaurant looks. The design and colors of the store are just as good as any others. I really like how they use a lot of chrome. I think the chrome makes things look good. Most of the restaurant is red and white which makes the restaurant feel lively. I think the restaurants good looks contributes to having a good time while you are there.

One of the main reasons why I like Johnny Rockets is because of the oldies music they play. When I was younger, my mother would listen to oldies while I was in the car and I enjoyed listening to them then. So the only time I really get to hear oldies now is when I go to Johnny Rockets. It makes me happy to hear those great songs again. The other reasons that I like Johnny Rockets is because of the great tasting food, great service, and the dancing they do. All these reasons bring me happiness.


ricks

arnie
03-29-2014, 01:52 PM
Does anyone know what kind of grade Steve Blake got for his paper that was posted here a number of years ago? I think that his paper was much, much worse than this one content-wise. There was no way his could have been plagiarized, however. ;)

found it:

Happy days at Johnny's

A young couple was walking down Main Street arguing with each other. The young lady got frustrated with her boyfriend and just walked away from him and went into a restaurant. He wanted to make up with her so he went in there after her. He met her inside and they waited for someone to help them find a seat. They where greeted by a young lady who was very kind and friendly. The hostess found them a comfortable booth and told them to have a good time. As they were sitting, they heard a song by Elvis being played throughout the whole restaurant. The couple looked at each other and smiled because they both really liked that song. The restaurant that this couple went to is in Florida and is called Johnny Rockets, a restaurant that brings people . . .

The difference to me - Blake wrote his essay by himself. The lengthy essay on Rosa Parks was a team effort that required input from the entire UNC football team with help from Hansbro.

gumbomoop
03-29-2014, 02:29 PM
The lengthy essay on Rosa Parks was a team effort that required input from the entire UNC football team with help from Hansbro.

Unless it was written by a tutor.

GGLC
03-29-2014, 02:58 PM
Steve Blake's essay is FAAAAAAR more substantive and well-structured than the paragraph-long "final paper" on Rosa Parks, and it's not even close.

The Parks paper is disgraceful, especially as the one grade someone received in a class.

gumbomoop
03-29-2014, 04:14 PM
Steve Blake's essay is FAAAAAAR more substantive and well-structured than the paragraph-long "final paper" on Rosa Parks, and it's not even close.

The Parks paper is disgraceful, especially as the one grade someone received in a class.

Amen. I have spent some time in academia, and have seen more than a few examples of plagiarized work. I have never seen anything within miles of this one on the ridiculousness-scale. Nothing ever, not close; this one is in a different plagiarism-cosmos.

It's presumably the sole assignment for a college course.
The student who presented this paper was either himself unprepared for middle school, or ...
... understood from the prof that a single paragraph, a few sentences, would suffice to complete the assignment and the course.
The professor seems to have awarded an A- for this grade-school effort, and for the course overall.
By implication, many courses had no real work, for which high marks were nevertheless awarded.

So other-worldly is this example of the athletic scam, that my befuddlement grows at the UNC faculty majority's public silence. It's very hard for me to imagine a more embarrassing example for a university, and I'd be surprised if this presumably extreme but also telling example doesn't show up in future stories. Given enough airplay, it's possible some of the silent majority will come out of hiding. But they've fooled me so far.

If anything, btw, the minus [as in A-] just adds to the embarrassment. One wonders exactly what Professor Nyang'Oro, or his delegated representative, found to be the couple of weaknesses in this scholarly effort that kept it from receiving the full A.

It's as if Nyang'Oro is saying, "I have standards, you know."

4Gen
03-30-2014, 12:01 PM
In last night's post game, Charles Barkley said to Kenney Smith: There's some questionable numbers out there, like your GPA. Kenney had no retort.

BD80
03-30-2014, 12:30 PM
In last night's post game, Charles Barkley said to Kenney Smith: There's some questionable numbers out there, like your GPA. Kenney had no retort.

Litt Up!

Man, I don't remember Sir Charles being such a student athlete that he could create enough spacing to get off a shot like that!

Did they sweep up Kenney's charred remains with a broom or vacuum?

G man
03-30-2014, 01:47 PM
I found the whole piece to be very depressing. I know that this is not the same as what is going on at Northwestern far from it, but I hope they become related. Athletes should have the ability to choose what they are taking in school. Schools should not only allow their "student athletes" to pick what they wish to study, but hold them academically accountable for what ever they choose to study. I find this whole thing to be very disturbing. When it is all said and done these so called "schools" are not only profiting off the athletes, but then they turn around and do not provide the so called reimbursement (scholarship) that they have been receiving. What good does it do any of these young men to receive an education that has no value. Problem for majority of these young men is that they will not be professionals at whatever sport they play. What then are these men left with? A system such as this existing within in our educational system is appalling and I hope some thing is done about. Even if it destroys the sports we have all come to enjoy so very much.

77devil
03-30-2014, 08:57 PM
Litt Up!

Man, I don't remember Sir Charles being such a student athlete that he could create enough spacing to get off a shot like that!

Did they sweep up Kenney's charred remains with a broom or vacuum?

Chuck has put the beat down on Kenny's UNC lineage before. Back in the early 2000s when Duke dominated the series, Kenny made a comment about the rivalry to which Sir Charles responded, without missing a beat, that you have to win occasionally for there to be a rivalry. Again, Kenny was speechless.

OldPhiKap
03-30-2014, 09:02 PM
Chuck has put the beat down on Kenny's UNC lineage before. Back in the early 2000s when Duke dominated the series, Kenny made a comment about the rivalry to which Sir Charles responded, without missing a beat, that you have to win occasionally for there to be a rivalry. Again, Kenny was speechless.

Kenny and JWill had a segment years ago where they set up a hoop in the studio to show some play or technique. JWIll had the ball, and Kenny said "here we are, in the Dean Dome . . . ". JWill shut him off, responding "no, if this was the Arran Dome, it would be quiet!"

Bang.

cspan37421
04-03-2014, 06:44 PM
It was the one she was holding and showed during the ESPN interview.

See:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/04/03/the_146_word_essay_that_got_a_unc_jock_an_a_here_s _the_real_story.html

Quick summary:

Willingham confirms paper is real, BUT, probably a draft, maybe an incomplete one, and the A- refers to the overall grade in the course, not on the paper alone. Also, this one was from a real course, not a no-show course.

The point of it was to illustrate writing level, though one might say it better illustrates copying ability.

martydoesntfoul
04-04-2014, 02:49 AM
Mary did an interview this afternoon (April 3) with Isaac and Suke in Portland, OR. It was supposed to be 15 minutes but she agreed to do a second segment, yielding a compelling 30 minutes. All in all, I don't think she is getting the respect she deserves for taking a stand. During the interview she talks more about the threats against her and her family, and at one point she describes what has happened to the whistleblowers that came before her. She also thinks she might only last for another semester at CH. Audio and transcript can be found here: http://audio.1080thefan.com/device/mobile/latest-audio.htm

cspan37421
04-04-2014, 07:25 AM
Sad but not surprising. The environment for whistleblowers is not favorable generally, and I wonder if it ever has been for those in athletics. Regardless, in light of the way she has been treated, as well as many others, we can expect more illegal and unethical behavior to occur in many organizations.