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Lord Ash
03-22-2014, 10:31 AM
So, I can't help but feel that Semi didn't really get used this year as well as he should have... Given his incredible athleticism and his intelligence, I would have thought he may have been used a bit at the 3/4.

I can't help but think (as someone who wasnt at practice and so on) that he could have been useful this year, especially as a way to develop him going forward.

jv001
03-22-2014, 11:11 AM
So, I can't help but feel that Semi didn't really get used this year as well as he should have... Given his incredible athleticism and his intelligence, I would have thought he may have been used a bit at the 3/4.

I can't help but think (as someone who wasnt at practice and so on) that he could have been useful this year, especially as a way to develop him going forward.

I agree about Semi. He's very talented and could have been used more. I didn't see him having as much fun toward the end of the year like he was at the first of the season. I saw Andre, Josh, Todd and Matt on the bench going krazy but not the same for Semi. I hope he works hard over the summer and forces his way into the rotation next season. GoDuke!

Dukehky
03-22-2014, 11:50 AM
I'm terrified he is going to transfer. I really cannot for the life of me understand why he did not get any PT, really all year. Losing 7 kids off one team would not be good, 8 if you count Murph leaving before Christmas.

arnie
03-22-2014, 11:59 AM
I'm terrified he is going to transfer. I really cannot for the life of me understand why he did not get any PT, really all year. Losing 7 kids off one team would not be good, 8 if you count Murph leaving before Christmas.

Don't know what his personal situation is - but based on past Duke transfer patterns, he might leave this spring or at Christmas.

NashvilleDevil
03-22-2014, 12:02 PM
I'm terrified he is going to transfer. I really cannot for the life of me understand why he did not get any PT, really all year. Losing 7 kids off one team would not be good, 8 if you count Murph leaving before Christmas.

And there it is. Less than 24 hours after the season ends.

CR9
03-22-2014, 12:03 PM
So, I can't help but feel that Semi didn't really get used this year as well as he should have... Given his incredible athleticism and his intelligence, I would have thought he may have been used a bit at the 3/4.

I can't help but think (as someone who wasnt at practice and so on) that he could have been useful this year, especially as a way to develop him going forward.

Agreed. It's incredible and almost ridiculous that K can leave talent sitting on the bench. He did the same with Mike G so I pray to god Semi doesn't head that way.

NashvilleDevil
03-22-2014, 12:11 PM
Agreed. It's incredible and almost ridiculous that K can leave talent sitting on the bench. He did the same with Mike G so I pray to god Semi doesn't head that way.

Everyone knew Semi was a project when he came to Duke. While he's extremely athletic he is from a small Kansas town and was bigger than everyone is high school. But since you appear to be on a nice run of slamming Coach K the last 24 hours this post does not surprise me.

CR9
03-22-2014, 12:28 PM
Everyone knew Semi was a project when he came to Duke. While he's extremely athletic he is from a small Kansas town and was bigger than everyone is high school. But since you appear to be on a nice run of slamming Coach K the last 24 hours this post does not surprise me.

You could make the case that both Matt and Marshall are 'projects' of their own. They both seem to have no offensive game, but they still played a lot more than Semi. Instead of rotating Semi in the give Jabari/Rodney, K decided on Dre early in the season and Tyler late. If all Jones and Marshall bring is defense at this particular time, why couldn't Semi?

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 12:30 PM
Everyone knew Semi was a project when he came to Duke. While he's extremely athletic he is from a small Kansas town and was bigger than everyone is high school. But since you appear to be on a nice run of slamming Coach K the last 24 hours this post does not surprise me.

Not unlike Olek Czyz, who was also an athletic project.

If these projects want early playing time, Duke is definitely the wrong school to pick.

Hopefully Semi wants to stick around and get better, but if he wants to get more PT elsewhere, who are we to begrudge him?

Regardless it is all conjecture and rumor at this point. I will save my concern for real information.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 12:32 PM
You could make the case that both Matt and Marshall are 'projects' of their own. They both seem to have no offensive game, but they still played a lot more than Semi. Instead of rotating Semi in the give Jabari/Rodney, K decided on Dre early in the season and Tyler late. If all Jones and Marshall bring is defense at this particular time, why couldn't Semi?

Well MP3 is nearly 7 feet tall. Is Semi?

Matt Jones is a perimeter defender. Is Semi?

Semi is a tweener and nothing we've heard suggests he has the defensive ability of Matt or Marshall. All we know is that he is strong and can dunk and knock down an occasional three. None of those means he can play D effectively.

CDu
03-22-2014, 12:35 PM
Everyone knew Semi was a project when he came to Duke. While he's extremely athletic he is from a small Kansas town and was bigger than everyone is high school. But since you appear to be on a nice run of slamming Coach K the last 24 hours this post does not surprise me.

I don't know that "everyone" knew he was a project coming in. Many did. Maybe even most. I certainly felt that way. But many saw his athleticism and shooting touch (he's actually a decent shooter) and saw potential value this year.

But the more important question is what Ojeleye himself thought. If he expected to play right away, then the "T" word is not out of the question.

Basically, I think we as fans need to accept the reality that any top-50 recruit that doesn't see early playing time is a threat to transfer. The days of expecting top-50 recruits to be willing to come in and get little-to-no PT for a year or two are gone. With early entry such a big part of the game, these guys expect to play right away. And with TV coverage so widespread, guys aren't forced to choose between starring in anonymity or sitting and waiting their turn.

I'm not saying we should expect anyone in particular to transfer. I'm just saying that we shouldn't be surprised when any top-50 recruit decides to transfer. That's just the nature of the beast. Times have changed.

For example, Alex Murphy LOVED Duke by all accounts. It was his dream school. He seemed to love his time on the team while he was here. But even after redshirting a season, he decided that a mid-season transfer was necessary for him so that he could get to play.

CR9
03-22-2014, 12:37 PM
Well MP3 is nearly 7 feet tall. Is Semi?

Matt Jones is a perimeter defender. Is Semi?

Semi is a tweener and nothing we've heard suggests he has the defensive ability of Matt or Marshall. All we know is that he is strong and can dunk and knock down an occasional three. None of those means he can play D effectively.

Nobody knew Jones was a great defender until he played. Has Semi? I just don't understand why he didn't play more early in the season. If he had played and not performed, then I could see him sitting for the year but playing 3-4 minutes a game when Duke's defense is passive and O is stall isn't going to prove anything.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 12:39 PM
Nobody knew Jones was a great defender until he played. Has Semi? I just don't understand why he didn't play more early in the season. If he had played and not performed, then I could see him sitting for the year but playing 3-4 minutes a game when Duke's defense is passive and O is stall isn't going to prove anything.

Actually Jones had a great reputation coming out of high school for defense.

Also, you underestimate the value of what the coaches see in practices. I'd imagine they didn't see enough from Semi. But you act as if Jobes played a ton this season. He averaged 7 min a game.

CR9
03-22-2014, 01:26 PM
Actually Jones had a great reputation coming out of high school for defense.

Also, you underestimate the value of what the coaches see in practices. I'd imagine they didn't see enough from Semi. But you act as if Jobes played a ton this season. He averaged 7 min a game.

Compared to Semi, Matt played a ton. Playing Semi was a no-lose situation. Duke's defense was bad and I doubt giving Semi 7-ish minutes a game would've made it much worse. In that scenario, he has some game experience for next season. I just don't see how sitting him was a better decision.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 01:30 PM
Compared to Semi, Matt played a ton. Playing Semi was a no-lose situation. Duke's defense was bad and I doubt giving Semi 7-ish minutes a game would've made it much worse. In that scenario, he has some game experience for next season. I just don't see how sitting him was a better decision.

So who would you have sat in favor of Semi?

Let me guess... The seniors?

ChicagoCrazy84
03-22-2014, 01:39 PM
Well MP3 is nearly 7 feet tall. Is Semi?

Matt Jones is a perimeter defender. Is Semi?

Semi is a tweener and nothing we've heard suggests he has the defensive ability of Matt or Marshall. All we know is that he is strong and can dunk and knock down an occasional three. None of those means he can play D effectively.

I'm curious as to why Coach K didn't just redshirt Semi then. If he was a project, didn't have the defensive ability as Jones to play immediately, and was already playing behind Jabari, Rodney, Amile, Josh, Jones, and you could even put Murph in there as well; why waste a year of eligibility and increase the chances of him transferring? I too think Semi has a lot to offer and will have a very good place on this roster. I would be extremely dissapointed if he left.

CR9
03-22-2014, 01:40 PM
So who would you have sat in favor of Semi?

Let me guess... The seniors?

Hard to say. That depends. If Semi were to play, I'd have hoped that meant widening the rotation. A guard (Cook/TT, whichever didn't start), a wing (Semi) and a big body (Josh/MP3) but that would require an 8-man rotation which rarely seemed on the cards so I'd say Matt considering he contributed nothing offensively and I feel like Semi being so big and athletic could at least crash the glass for some put-backs.

_Gary
03-22-2014, 01:40 PM
So who would you have sat in favor of Semi?

Let me guess... The seniors?

I'll probably get flamed for this, but I will admit I'd have liked to see Semi get some of Josh's minutes this past season. I felt his upside (at least athletically) was worth giving him some of those minutes. And yes, I know the argument against it. Just giving my opinion.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 01:40 PM
I'm curious as to why Coach K didn't just redshirt Semi then. If he was a project, didn't have the defensive ability as Jones to play immediately, and was already playing behind Jabari, Rodney, Amile, Josh, Jones, and you could even put Murph in there as well; why waste a year of eligibility and increase the chances of him transferring? I too think Semi has a lot to offer and will have a very good place on this roster. I would be extremely dissapointed if he left.

Pretty sure Semi would have to accept the redshirt, wouldn't he?

Not sure how it works, but as a freshman I'd rather take whatever in game experience I could get than redshirt.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 01:41 PM
I'll probably get flamed for this, but I will admit I'd have liked to see Semi get some of Josh's minutes this past season. I felt his upside (at least athletically) was worth giving him some of those minutes. And yes, I know the argument against it. Just giving my opinion.

Well MP3 ended up getting Josh's minutes. Personally I wanted MP3 in there over Semi.

_Gary
03-22-2014, 01:43 PM
Well MP3 ended up getting Josh's minutes. Personally I wanted MP3 in there over Semi.

And I'm not going to disagree with that. But when both Josh and Marshall were getting minutes, I'd have preferred some of Josh's to go to Semi.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 01:44 PM
Hard to say. That depends. If Semi were to play, I'd have hoped that meant widening the rotation. A guard (Cook/TT, whichever didn't start), a wing (Semi) and a big body (Josh/MP3) but that would require an 8-man rotation which rarely seemed on the cards so I'd say Matt considering he contributed nothing offensively and I feel like Semi being so big and athletic could at least crash the glass for some put-backs.

Yea but Matt barely played, either.

K never really extends his rotations, which in unfortunate. I felt the line changes made a lot of sense this year.

sagegrouse
03-22-2014, 01:48 PM
Well MP3 is nearly 7 feet tall. Is Semi?

Matt Jones is a perimeter defender. Is Semi?

Semi is a tweener and nothing we've heard suggests he has the defensive ability of Matt or Marshall. All we know is that he is strong and can dunk and knock down an occasional three. None of those means he can play D effectively.

If Jabari and Rodney depart, then Duke will return zero, zip, nada, zilch experienced players at forward and center with a shot from beyond five feet. Perhaps one thinks that C Okafor and F Winslow are the answers to all of our problems, but I don't. It may have been nice to get regular minutes for Semi (and Alex) in order to be better prepared.

Moreover, from a team labeled "young" by the coaching staff and assuming Semi is "true blue," we would still lose six of our 12 recruited players from the beginning of the season.

azzefkram
03-22-2014, 01:51 PM
I was intrigued by Semi from what I read and what little I saw of him but I never expected him to be a factor in '13-14.

gofurman
03-22-2014, 01:56 PM
Yea but Matt barely played, either.

K never really extends his rotations, which in unfortunate. I felt the line changes made a lot of sense this year.

This - we were instantly energetic, renewed, and most importantly better on D with the line changes. And.they seemed to be the spark that got Suliamon going too ,!

So all good, not much bad in the line change system and we quit using them? Never really understood it. We did use them for a few games - UVA etc. Question - did we lose a SINGLE game that we used line changes? What was our record when deploying that strategy? 3-0? 4-0?

gofurman
03-22-2014, 02:07 PM
Why would Semi transfer? We don't have a 3 unless Jabari returns. Cook, Suliamon, Tyus jones, Amile and Okafor seem the only 5 to surely get minutes and that's 3 guards with no real wing player. Amile and Okafor are inside guys for sure. Minutes are there for Semi to earn!!!

Dukehky
03-22-2014, 02:09 PM
If Jabari and Rodney depart, then Duke will return zero, zip, nada, zilch experienced players at forward and center with a shot from beyond five feet. Perhaps one thinks that C Okafor and F Winslow are the answers to all of our problems, but I don't. It may have been nice to get regular minutes for Semi (and Alex) in order to be better prepared.

Moreover, from a team labeled "young" by the coaching staff and assuming Semi is "true blue," we would still lose six of our 12 recruited players from the beginning of the season.

I'm sorry, but I found this to be nothing more than an excuse. Quinn is a junior who played a ton over the past two years. Rasheed was a 2 year starter. Tyler was a senior. Amile saw hefty minutes last year after Ryan's injury, Rodney had been exposed to the system for a full year in addition to playing against high level competition his freshman year. Josh was a senior. Andre was a 5th Year Senior. Jabari was the only freshman to see meaningful minutes. There is plenty of college experience on this roster. Is there inexperience playing together? Of course, but all teams can say that this is their first year playing with "that" team. I'm just frustrated with the "young" thing. We had plenty of experience, that was not the problem.

I'm not pointing fingers or saying the team wasn't good or didn't try hard or anything like that, I just thought it was pretty lame to continually blame our bad stretches on "youth" when we weren't all that young. Did we have 3 All-League seniors? No, but Florida is the only team in the country that has that. I'd rather have all of our talented "youth" than 5 Mercer level seniors, sorry. Youth isn't an excuse for losing that game. Not being able to play effective defense and score was the reason we lost that game, not youth.

Okay, that's my little vent for the Mercer game, no more. Are we still going to be young next year with a Quinn, Rasheed, Amile, Marshall playing? Just because you have some key freshman contributors doesn't necessarily make you a young team overall.

I just think it's an excuse, and not a good one.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 02:09 PM
Why would Semi transfer? We don't have a 3 unless Jabari returns. Cook, Suliamon, Tyus jones, Amile and Okafor seem the only 5 to surely get minutes and that's 3 guards with no real wing player. Amile and Okafor are inside guys for sure. Minutes are there for Semi to earn!!!

Because the Internet? :p

But I agree. Semi has plenty of opportunity to play next season, even if Parker returns. Hood will be gone and I doubt Justise will play any more than Semi did this year unless he's a mega-stud.

Alex Murphy transferred, but that was after a redshirt and a half season to see if he could crack the rotation. I'd suspect that Semi would come back and work to get his playing time, unless the coaches had explicitly told him that he won't play much next year, which I doubt has happened.

Dukehky
03-22-2014, 02:11 PM
Why would Semi transfer? We don't have a 3 unless Jabari returns. Cook, Suliamon, Tyus jones, Amile and Okafor seem the only 5 to surely get minutes and that's 3 guards with no real wing player. Amile and Okafor are inside guys for sure. Minutes are there for Semi to earn!!!

Ummmmm, is Justise Winslow, a top 10 recruit and arguably the best defensive player in the class who is listed at 6'6 and is a tremendous athlete, a name that doesn't ring a bell?

Dukehky
03-22-2014, 02:13 PM
Because the Internet? :p

But I agree. Semi has plenty of opportunity to play next season, even if Parker returns. Hood will be gone and I doubt Justise will play any more than Semi did this year unless he's a mega-stud.

Alex Murphy transferred, but that was after a redshirt and a half season to see if he could crack the rotation. I'd suspect that Semi would come back and work to get his playing time, unless the coaches had explicitly told him that he won't play much next year, which I doubt has happened.

Wow, I expect Justise to be competing for a starting position. "Mega-stud"- no guarantees, but it kinda seems like that to me. Not to say that Semi shouldn't have an advantage, having been in the system for a year, but dude, from what I've seen of old Chief Justise, all my comparisons are rich man's MKG on offense, slightly poorer man's MKG on defense and on the glass, but that man still is upper middle class.

ChicagoCrazy84
03-22-2014, 02:16 PM
Why would Semi transfer? We don't have a 3 unless Jabari returns. Cook, Suliamon, Tyus jones, Amile and Okafor seem the only 5 to surely get minutes and that's 3 guards with no real wing player. Amile and Okafor are inside guys for sure. Minutes are there for Semi to earn!!!


I'm going to paste this directly onto Justice Winslow's twitter page just to stir him up. :p

If you don't know him now, don't worry you will...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl2TOEK4TL0

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 02:16 PM
Wow, I expect Justise to be competing for a starting position. "Mega-stud"- no guarantees, but it kinda seems like that to me. Not to say that Semi shouldn't have an advantage, having been in the system for a year, but dude, from what I've seen of old Chief Justise, all my comparisons are rich man's MKG on offense, slightly poorer man's MKG on defense and on the glass, but that man still is upper middle class.

I hope you're right, but I've heard similar sentiment about previous recruits. You never know until they get on campus and start competing with the other Duke blue-chippers.

Dukehky
03-22-2014, 02:20 PM
I hope you're right, but I've heard similar sentiment about previous recruits. You never know until they get on campus and start competing with the other Duke blue-chippers.

To be fair, regarding Semi, from the beginning, he was a freak athlete who played HS hoops in Kansas. He did not play on the AAU circuit, and as such did not play against elite level competition. That was knock on him from the beginning. He has a better shot than I expected, but he was always a project, and I think he knew that, or at least I hope that it was made known to him. I think once K realized he wasn't going to crack the rotation he should have RS him, but hind-sight is 20/20.

Some other sites got me worried about Semi potentially transferring, but I haven't heard anything coming off campus that seems to indicate that. I just got into a little woe is me on my earlier post about worrying about him transferring. I think K will "talk him down" if he needs to be talked down in the exit interviews, which will happen sometime this week.

I'd put money on Justise being the real deal, btw.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 02:23 PM
To be fair, regarding Semi, from the beginning, he was a freak athlete who played HS hoops in Kansas. He did not play on the AAU circuit, and as such did not play against elite level competition. That was knock on him from the beginning. He has a better shot than I expected, but he was always a project, and I think he knew that, or at least I hope that it was made known to him. I think once K realized he wasn't going to crack the rotation he should have RS him, but hind-sight is 20/20.

Some other sites got me worried about Semi potentially transferring, but I haven't heard anything coming off campus that seems to indicate that. I just got into a little woe is me on my earlier post about worrying about him transferring. I think K will "talk him down" if he needs to be talked down in the exit interviews, which will happen sometime this week.

I'd put money on Justise being the real deal, btw.

Well, the internet is rife with "experts" who are "in the know." Just think how many posts have come up in this thread about him transferring. If I were an outsider looking in, I'd read this thread and think "oh, he's as good as gone."

So unless we get official word from Semi or an official announcements, I wouldn't worry too much.

CDu
03-22-2014, 02:23 PM
First of all, Parker is not a college 3. He is a college 4.

Secondly, one could certainly argue that Ojeleye is not really a college 3, but a hybrid 3/4.

Thirdly, we absolutely have competition at the 3. Matt Jones will play there if he plays at all (Tyus Jones, Cook, and Sulaimon will likely get all 80 minutes at the 1 and 2). And we have a top-10 SF coming in in Winslow. And I can't remember the last top-10 recruit at Duke that didn't play major minutes as a frosh.

I think Ojeleye's best shot at minutes will be at PF competing with Jefferson.

Dukehky
03-22-2014, 02:26 PM
First of all, Parker is not a college 3. He is a college 4.

Secondly, one could certainly argue that Ojeleye is not really a college 3, but a hybrid 3/4.

Thirdly, we absolutely have competition at the 3. Matt Jones will play there if he plays at all (Tyus Jones, Cook, and Sulaimon will likely get all 80 minutes at the 1 and 2). And we have a top-10 SF coming in in Winslow. And I can't remember the last top-10 recruit at Duke that didn't play major minutes as a frosh.

I think Ojeleye's best shot at minutes will be at PF competing with Jefferson.

Assuming Jabari and Turner are not on the team next year, I think you're right.

I actually think Grayson will get some run in if he can play any defense at all, because he might be the best pure shooter on the team next year, and K likes shooters, so do I though.

_Gary
03-22-2014, 02:26 PM
First of all, Parker is not a college 3. He is a college 4.

Secondly, one could certainly argue that Ojeleye is not really a college 3, but a hybrid 3/4.

Thirdly, we absolutely have competition at the 3. Matt Jones will play there if he plays at all (Tyus Jones, Cook, and Sulaimon will likely get all 80 minutes at the 1 and 2). And we have a top-10 SF coming in in Winslow. And I can't remember the last top-10 recruit at Duke that didn't play major minutes as a frosh.

I think Ojeleye's best shot at minutes will be at PF competing with Jefferson.

Absolutely agree on all points! Semi will need to get minutes at the 4 if he's going to get them. Too many players that can and will play the 3 for him to see anything at that spot.

Kedsy
03-22-2014, 02:31 PM
I hope you're right, but I've heard similar sentiment about previous recruits. You never know until they get on campus and start competing with the other Duke blue-chippers.

While this is true, and recruiting ranking doesn't mean everything, it does mean something. Justise is currently ranked #12 in the RSCI (we'll see if he's gone up or down when the new RSCI comes out in a couple months). Semi was #32. That's a HUGE difference.

I'm not saying Coach K will play Justise just because of his ranking, but I can say that the last few recruits we've had in the 10 to 12 range were JJ Redick (#11), Gerald Henderson (#10), and Rasheed Sulaimon (#12) and all of them played at least 19 mpg as freshmen; and of the last six guys we've had in the 30s, only one of them played more than 4.5 mpg as a freshman, and that one (Quinn Cook, #31) played just 11.4 mpg. In other words, predicting Justise's minutes next season based on Semi's minutes this season is a mistake.

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 02:37 PM
While this is true, and recruiting ranking doesn't mean everything, it does mean something. Justise is currently ranked #12 in the RSCI (we'll see if he's gone up or down when the new RSCI comes out in a couple months). Semi was #32. That's a HUGE difference.

I'm not saying Coach K will play Justise just because of his ranking, but I can say that the last few recruits we've had in the 10 to 12 range were JJ Redick (#11), Gerald Henderson (#10), and Rasheed Sulaimon (#12) and all of them played at least 19 mpg as freshmen; and of the last six guys we've had in the 30s, only one of them played more than 4.5 mpg as a freshman, and that one (Quinn Cook, #31) played just 11.4 mpg. In other words, predicting Justise's minutes next season based on Semi's minutes this season is a mistake.

Right, I don't dispute that at all.

But I do think Semi's ranking was partly due to his lack of AAU time and playing in a weak Kansas high school division. He has the tools to be effective. Will be interesting to see how it plays out. Hopefully he has the patience to stick it out and compete for time.

MCFinARL
03-22-2014, 02:46 PM
While this is true, and recruiting ranking doesn't mean everything, it does mean something. Justise is currently ranked #12 in the RSCI (we'll see if he's gone up or down when the new RSCI comes out in a couple months). Semi was #32. That's a HUGE difference.

I'm not saying Coach K will play Justise just because of his ranking, but I can say that the last few recruits we've had in the 10 to 12 range were JJ Redick (#11), Gerald Henderson (#10), and Rasheed Sulaimon (#12) and all of them played at least 19 mpg as freshmen; and of the last six guys we've had in the 30s, only one of them played more than 4.5 mpg as a freshman, and that one (Quinn Cook, #31) played just 11.4 mpg. In other words, predicting Justise's minutes next season based on Semi's minutes this season is a mistake.

And Quinn's rating was probably a lot lower than it would otherwise have been because of his knee injury in HS--so it seems likely that even at 11.4 minutes he played more than he would have had he been a "typical" entering player ranked in the 30's.

JNort
03-22-2014, 02:46 PM
You could make the case that both Matt and Marshall are 'projects' of their own. They both seem to have no offensive game, but they still played a lot more than Semi. Instead of rotating Semi in the give Jabari/Rodney, K decided on Dre early in the season and Tyler late. If all Jones and Marshall bring is defense at this particular time, why couldn't Semi?

Only thing that jumps out to me from Semi is his leaping ability at the moment. Matt was a great on ball defender who supposedly can shoot. Marshall could provide a big presence inside. Those two needs were some of our biggest this year and we still never got significant time from either so why would Semi? Watching his highlight videos you can see his doesn't get good separation but his sheer physical strength allowed him to score. Not sure on his defense, granted I did want to see play. He could be similar to an Olek Cryz but I haven't seen enough of either to make a solid comparison.

I don't see him playing next year either tbh. It will come down to him and Justice for the last bit of playing time.

Furniture
03-22-2014, 03:00 PM
I'm sorry, but I found this to be nothing more than an excuse. Quinn is a junior who played a ton over the past two years. Rasheed was a 2 year starter. Tyler was a senior. Amile saw hefty minutes last year after Ryan's injury, Rodney had been exposed to the system for a full year in addition to playing against high level competition his freshman year. Josh was a senior. Andre was a 5th Year Senior. Jabari was the only freshman to see meaningful minutes. There is plenty of college experience on this roster. Is there inexperience playing together? Of course, but all teams can say that this is their first year playing with "that" team. I'm just frustrated with the "young" thing. We had plenty of experience, that was not the problem.

I'm not pointing fingers or saying the team wasn't good or didn't try hard or anything like that, I just thought it was pretty lame to continually blame our bad stretches on "youth" when we weren't all that young. Did we have 3 All-League seniors? No, but Florida is the only team in the country that has that. I'd rather have all of our talented "youth" than 5 Mercer level seniors, sorry. Youth isn't an excuse for losing that game. Not being able to play effective defense and score was the reason we lost that game, not youth.

Okay, that's my little vent for the Mercer game, no more. Are we still going to be young next year with a Quinn, Rasheed, Amile, Marshall playing? Just because you have some key freshman contributors doesn't necessarily make you a young team overall.

I just think it's an excuse, and not a good one.

I also disagree about the 'young' excuse. If anything though I do think our senior kids weren't of a comparable talent level to the younger part of the team and this May have caused a bit of a mismatch of leadership, talent and even harmony?

FerryFor50
03-22-2014, 03:04 PM
I also disagree about the 'young' excuse. If anything though I do think our senior kids weren't of a comparable talent level to the younger part of the team and this May have caused a bit of a mismatch of leadership, talent and even harmony?

I don't think there were any harmony issues. But I do think that the leaders should be the more talented guys.

SheltonBob
03-22-2014, 04:21 PM
Why would Semi transfer? We don't have a 3 unless Jabari returns. Cook, Suliamon, Tyus jones, Amile and Okafor seem the only 5 to surely get minutes and that's 3 guards with no real wing player. Amile and Okafor are inside guys for sure. Minutes are there for Semi to earn!!!

AGREE 100% - Semi can, and IMO, will earn significant minutes in 2014-2015. With at least one and maybe/likely two stars who played approximately 60 minutes in total per game leaving - PT is there for the taking for the next three years. Would be shocked if he or anyone would transfer - but if he leaves - I would wish him and any and all, the best!!

Dukehky
03-22-2014, 06:22 PM
I also disagree about the 'young' excuse. If anything though I do think our senior kids weren't of a comparable talent level to the younger part of the team and this May have caused a bit of a mismatch of leadership, talent and even harmony?

Oh I totally agree with this. Tyler and Josh were not good enough to be truly effective leaders, Tyler in large part because he fouled so often and wasn't on the court enough/when he was on the court was a pretty big offensive liability.

Rodney certainly had all the makings of a good leader skill wise, but again it's tough to be a great leader when you periodically play poorly in big moments. Look I love Rodney, I hope to goodness he comes back, but its tough when your most consistent player isn't consistently really strong in the biggest moments.

Can Quinn be the leader? Can Rasheed? I'm just not sure because they have shown to have issues with keeping themselves involved on both ends of the court at all times.

This is getting off topic, but I'm not sure what more can be made of Semi's role for the team until we see the dynamics starting next season assuming he is still a Blue Devil.

It is nice to look ahead to get our minds off of the loss yesterday. Realistically, the make-up of this team probably wouldn't have led to a National Championship, but that loss yesterday was really disappointing. People gotta cope anyway they can I guess. This season was pretty disappointing IMO because we had such talent that never really came together, with no championships, but I loved being able to watch Jabari for however long we had/may have him. Starting to ramble a bit, but I find it hard to enjoy the rest of this weekend's basketball. Hopefully it will go away by the time the SS and EE come around.

Let's go Duke Lax, let's go DWB.

Kedsy
03-22-2014, 06:32 PM
Tyler and Josh were not good enough to be truly effective leaders, Tyler in large part because he fouled so often and wasn't on the court enough/when he was on the court was a pretty big offensive liability.

Several people have said things like this about Tyler in recent threads, and despite my arguing all year for somewhat fewer minutes for Tyler (mostly because I wanted more minutes for Andre), I want to say right now that suggesting Tyler was an offensive liability this season is way off base.

I realize oRating doesn't necessarily say everything about a player's offensive value, especially for lower usage players like Tyler, but that doesn't change the fact that Tyler Thornton led the ACC in oRating this season. Again, I'm not suggesting Tyler was the most valuable offensive player in the ACC or even on the Duke team -- that would be silly -- but I also don't think there's any reasonable argument that he was a liability.

Dukehky
03-22-2014, 06:42 PM
Several people have said things like this about Tyler in recent threads, and despite my arguing all year for somewhat fewer minutes for Tyler (mostly because I wanted more minutes for Andre), I want to say right now that suggesting Tyler was an offensive liability this season is way off base.

I realize oRating doesn't necessarily say everything about a player's offensive value, especially for lower usage players like Tyler, but that doesn't change the fact that Tyler Thornton led the ACC in oRating this season. Again, I'm not suggesting Tyler was the most valuable offensive player in the ACC or even on the Duke team -- that would be silly -- but I also don't think there's any reasonable argument that he was a liability.

There is no doubt that Tyler was probably the smartest player on this year's team. He was a good outside shooter, and the smartest passer, but he couldn't get anything for himself and couldn't create for others. His greatest asset was that he capitalized on the defenses' mistakes, but when it came to Tyler, the mistakes that he could take advantage of were pretty rare. When Tyler had more points than fouls, we were tough to beat, but in how many games was that the case? I feel like his offensive rating is skewed by the fact that he did take advantage of what was given him, and maybe liability wasn't the right word, but his leadership was probably affected by his limitations instead. This was the point I'm trying to make, not trying to say that TT wasn't an extremely valuable piece to this years complex personnel puzzle.

This is probably too much criticism for a guy who gave it all to the team and the program and who maximized his abilities IMO. I'll miss him on the team and around other players and it wouldn't surprise me if he was the next guy up for a coaching role as soon as one becomes available on the Duke bench. I too would have liked to see more of his minutes go to Dre though, that may be because I, like many people, have a real soft spot for Andre Dawkins, and will miss him more than all the other seniors combined, and honestly, may miss him more personally than Rodney too.

jv001
03-22-2014, 07:25 PM
Several people have said things like this about Tyler in recent threads, and despite my arguing all year for somewhat fewer minutes for Tyler (mostly because I wanted more minutes for Andre), I want to say right now that suggesting Tyler was an offensive liability this season is way off base.

I realize oRating doesn't necessarily say everything about a player's offensive value, especially for lower usage players like Tyler, but that doesn't change the fact that Tyler Thornton led the ACC in oRating this season. Again, I'm not suggesting Tyler was the most valuable offensive player in the ACC or even on the Duke team -- that would be silly -- but I also don't think there's any reasonable argument that he was a liability.

I wouldn't call Tyler a liability on offense, but there were times that we moved the ball around and someone kicked out or over to Tyler and he passed up a shot. That was ok early in the shot clock, but later in the shot clock that caused us to end up with a tough shot. I would have seen Tyler take that earlier shot, but that's hind sight because we didn't know we'd end up with a poor shot. I will miss Tyler next year. He has the Duke "stuff". GoDuke!

lotusland
03-22-2014, 07:44 PM
To be fair, regarding Semi, from the beginning, he was a freak athlete who played HS hoops in Kansas. He did not play on the AAU circuit, and as such did not play against elite level competition. That was knock on him from the beginning. He has a better shot than I expected, but he was always a project, and I think he knew that, or at least I hope that it was made known to him. I think once K realized he wasn't going to crack the rotation he should have RS him, but hind-sight is 20/20.

Some other sites got me worried about Semi potentially transferring, but I haven't heard anything coming off campus that seems to indicate that. I just got into a little woe is me on my earlier post about worrying about him transferring. I think K will "talk him down" if he needs to be talked down in the exit interviews, which will happen sometime this week.

I'd put money on Justise being the real deal, btw.

I think Murphy is a good example of why you should not red-shirt unless you are injured. I think Alex may be appealing to keep his eligibility but he may lose a year due to his prior red-shirt year.

Channing
03-26-2014, 09:38 AM
Were there ever any comments made about Ojele's practice habits? I can only assume he wasn't showing enough in practice to warrant minutes, because someone with his size, strength, and leaping ability surely would have added a different element on offense. He also seemed to show a really great shooting stroke (significantly better than Matt Jones) during the limited minutes he got to play.

If his defense held him back this year, he must be an atrocious defender, because nobody really showed great defense this year.

CameronBornAndBred
03-26-2014, 09:54 AM
Agreed. It's incredible and almost ridiculous that K can leave talent sitting on the bench. He did the same with Mike G so I pray to god Semi doesn't head that way.
I doubt very much that K "leaves talent sitting on the bench". We have no idea what went on in practice, but you have to assume that others earned their playing time over him. There are other coaches on our bench, too. Don't you think that if Semi was outstanding in practice they would be suggesting to K that he get on the court more? He wasn't used, even in the platooning, which is very telling that something was absent in his game.
Silent G was obviously a productive player for Syracuse this year. He also had a year in between Duke and this year to work on any deficiencies that kept him on our pine. And while K and Boeheim are both excellent coaches, isn't it possible that G simply worked better in the system at Syracuse? That could be the case for Semi, that Duke simply hasn't been the best fit for him. Who knows, but if he stays we'll get to find out more answers next year. If he leaves, (which with the talent we have coming in isn't outside the stretch of imagination) then best of luck to him.
But regardless of the outcome, I doubt very much that K "left him sitting on the bench" out of stubborness or spite, which would be the only other reasons if he were actually producing in practice. (And as far as I know, he wasn't "doghoused".)

Gthoma2a
03-26-2014, 09:59 AM
I doubt very much that K "leaves talent sitting on the bench". We have no idea what went on in practice, but you have to assume that others earned their playing time over him. There are other coaches on our bench, too. Don't you think that if Semi was outstanding in practice they would be suggesting to K that he get on the court more? He wasn't used, even in the platooning, which is very telling that something was absent in his game.
Silent G was obviously a productive player for Syracuse this year. He also had a year in between Duke and this year to work on any deficiencies that kept him on our pine. And while K and Boeheim are both excellent coaches, isn't it possible that G simply worked better in the system at Syracuse? That could be the case for Semi, that Duke simply hasn't been the best fit for him. Who knows, but if he stays we'll get to find out more answers next year. If he leaves, (which with the talent we have coming in isn't outside the stretch of imagination) then best of luck to him.
But regardless of the outcome, I doubt very much that K "left him sitting on the bench" out of stubborness or spite, which would be the only other reasons if he were actually producing in practice. (And as far as I know, he wasn't "doghoused".)

Not arguing with the general statement of the post, but he was used in the platooning. He wasn't used a lot, but he did get into those games with the second squad (as I recall).

FerryFor50
03-26-2014, 10:14 AM
I doubt very much that K "leaves talent sitting on the bench". We have no idea what went on in practice, but you have to assume that others earned their playing time over him. There are other coaches on our bench, too. Don't you think that if Semi was outstanding in practice they would be suggesting to K that he get on the court more? He wasn't used, even in the platooning, which is very telling that something was absent in his game.
Silent G was obviously a productive player for Syracuse this year. He also had a year in between Duke and this year to work on any deficiencies that kept him on our pine. And while K and Boeheim are both excellent coaches, isn't it possible that G simply worked better in the system at Syracuse? That could be the case for Semi, that Duke simply hasn't been the best fit for him. Who knows, but if he stays we'll get to find out more answers next year. If he leaves, (which with the talent we have coming in isn't outside the stretch of imagination) then best of luck to him.
But regardless of the outcome, I doubt very much that K "left him sitting on the bench" out of stubborness or spite, which would be the only other reasons if he were actually producing in practice. (And as far as I know, he wasn't "doghoused".)

Silent G wasn't really all that productive this season for Syracuse. 3.4 ppg, 1.8 rebounds, 38% FG, 35% 3pt, 64% FT 14.6mpg

Honestly, he wasn't seeing any PT until Syracuse players kept getting injured. You think K's bench is short? Boeheim was playing only 6 guys meaningful minutes most of the season.

Even extrapolated over 40 minutes, he wasn't that great. Put it this way... if you compared Michael Gbinije to Marshall Plumlee's per 40 min output, you could make a solid case that MP3 was more productive:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-gbinije-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marshall-plumlee-1.html

CameronBornAndBred
03-26-2014, 10:19 AM
Silent G wasn't really all that productive this season for Syracuse. 3.4 ppg, 1.8 rebounds, 38% FG, 35% 3pt, 64% FT 14.6mpg

Honestly, he wasn't seeing any PT until Syracuse players kept getting injured. You think K's bench is short? Boeheim was playing only 6 guys meaningful minutes most of the season.

Even extrapolated over 40 minutes, he wasn't that great. Put it this way... if you compared Michael Gbinije to Marshall Plumlee's per 40 min output, you could make a solid case that MP3 was more productive:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-gbinije-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/marshall-plumlee-1.html
Good points, I had only looked at ESPN's stats and noticed that he averaged three times the minutes this year vs his Duke year. And I do think Marshall was more productive, at least when MP3 comes in, he makes an impact. :D

UrinalCake
03-26-2014, 10:21 AM
Why would Semi transfer? We don't have a 3 unless Jabari returns.

Don't forget Winslow, a prototypical 3 in Duke's system, but yeah behind him we'd have no one except for a bunch of shooting guards playing out of position. And at the 4 we'd only have Amile. So Semi will have plenty of opportunities for playing time. If he transfers, it's because he's not good enough to play, not because of the roster makeup.

Also, I'm curious why people are saying Semi could play the 3. In the limited time I've seen him he looks like a 4 all the way. Closer to a 4/5 than a 3/4. Is it just because he shot like 4/7 from three on the season (all in garbage minutes) and so everyone assumes he's a great shooter?

Troublemaker
03-26-2014, 10:24 AM
Were there ever any comments made about Ojele's practice habits? I can only assume he wasn't showing enough in practice to warrant minutes, because someone with his size, strength, and leaping ability surely would have added a different element on offense. He also seemed to show a really great shooting stroke (significantly better than Matt Jones) during the limited minutes he got to play.

If his defense held him back this year, he must be an atrocious defender, because nobody really showed great defense this year.

On a roster with 11 players, somebody has to be the 11th man. And for the vast majority of programs, the 11th man isn't part of the playing rotation. Semi was the 11th man this season, whether it was due to a lack of defense, offense, practice habits, communication, whatever, or a combination of all that.

What matters is whether he thinks he can become more than that going forward in his career.

I personally believe he could be in line for 10 mpg next season as Amile's backup at PF and present a different look as a stretch 4. He might also get another 5mpg backing up SF.

If Jabari returns, however, that would make a major impact to Semi's minutes. Semi may have to then evaluate whether he wants to redshirt.

FerryFor50
03-26-2014, 10:28 AM
On a roster with 11 players, somebody has to be the 11th man. And for the vast majority of programs, the 11th man isn't part of the playing rotation. Semi was the 11th man this season, whether it was due to a lack of defense, offense, practice habits, communication, whatever, or a combination of all that.

What matters is whether he thinks he can become more than that going forward in his career.

I personally believe he could be in line for 10 mpg next season as Amile's backup at PF and present a different look as a stretch 4. He might also get another 5mpg backing up SF.

If Jabari returns, however, that would make a major impact to Semi's minutes. Semi may have to then evaluate whether he wants to redshirt.

I think many of the people wanting Semi to play this year wanted Josh or Tyler to be the 11th man. That wasn't happening unless Semi was dominating in practices, which he likely was not.

eddiehaskell
03-26-2014, 10:32 AM
Good points, I had only looked at ESPN's stats and noticed that he averaged three times the minutes this year vs his Duke year. And I do think Marshall was more productive, at least when MP3 comes in, he makes an impact. :DHe is also nearly 22 yrs old...about as physically mature as a college player gets.

gumbomoop
03-26-2014, 10:38 AM
Don't forget Winslow, a prototypical 3 in Duke's system, but yeah behind him we'd have no one except for a bunch of shooting guards playing out of position. And at the 4 we'd only have Amile. So Semi will have plenty of opportunities for playing time. If he transfers, it's because he's not good enough to play, not because of the roster makeup.

Also, I'm curious why people are saying Semi could play the 3. In the limited time I've seen him he looks like a 4 all the way. Closer to a 4/5 than a 3/4. Is it just because he shot like 4/7 from three on the season (all in garbage minutes) and so everyone assumes he's a great shooter?

Mostly Semi's presumed 3/4 is a function of his height. We have big, big size at the 5: Okafor and Plumlee. Winslow, at 6'5"/6" is the only "logical" wing/3. We have other wings, shorter than Winslow, for small-ball minutes. But Semi is the only "logical" sub, height-wise, for Winslow, the possible/probable starter at wing/3; and Semi is the most "logical" sub at the 4, for the near-certain starter, Jefferson, because there's no other 4 on the roster, and strength-wise, Semi seems able to defend slightly taller opposing 4s.

Li_Duke
03-26-2014, 10:40 AM
If Jabari doesn't return and we don't get Turner, I see the starting power forward spot going to any of Amile, Semi, and Justise who proves he can:
1) Defend and rebound
2) Space the floor

If none of the three can do 1) and 2) effectively, then it'll likely go to whoever is closest to doing it (or a mix and match all season).

szstark
03-26-2014, 10:49 AM
Why do we continually fall into the trap of believing that the players who don't play, or those that haven't even arrived on campus yet, are better players than the ones that actually played? This is an argument of convenience that is way over-used.

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 10:52 AM
If Jabari doesn't return and we don't get Turner, I see the starting power forward spot going to any of Amile, Semi, and Justice who proves he can:
1) Defend and rebound
2) Space the floor

If none of the three can do 1) and 2) effectively, then it'll likely go to whoever is closest to doing it (or a mix and match all season).

1) Everyone on DBR - it's Justise, not Justice.
2) Winslow is a college SF and NBA SG. Given that we actually have height next year (Jahlil, Okafor, Amile), I'm not sure that Justise is gonna smell the 4. Also, our weakness next year, given Jabari goes pro, is at the 3. Also, if we want to fix our most glaring issue (defense, and more precisely penetration defense), and Winslow is known as a defensive stopper, giving Winslow minutes at the 3 makes a ton of sense.
3) Amile can rebound and defend smaller players. The 4 is his ideal position next year (and he's a natural 4 in college and the NBA), especially considering he'll pack on another 10 pounds or more in the off-season.

sagegrouse
03-26-2014, 10:53 AM
Why do we continually fall into the trap of believing that the players who don't play, or those that haven't even arrived on campus yet, are better players than the ones that actually played? This is an argument of convenience that is way over-used.

It seems to be a law of nature that players on the bench are systematically undervalued in comparison to the new freshmen.

MaxAMillion
03-26-2014, 10:57 AM
I think this is another player that fans build up in their mind as being a incredible talent (Matt Jones was supposedly a tremendous shooter until he actually went into games and shot the ball). I never really expected this kid to be a star for Duke (or even a starter). When KU pases on a player from their own area, that gives me pause. Sure Self liked some players better, but if Andrew Wiggins played high school ball in Kansas, he would get an offer no matter what.

My guess is that Ojeleye will be a bench player who hopefully can develop into a solid role player before he leaves.

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 11:01 AM
It seems to be a law of nature that players on the bench are systematically undervalued in comparison to the new freshmen.

Yup. I mean, have you seen the Luke Kennard thread? Everyone is basing his skillset on highlight videos, where he plays against 5 scrawny kids all 6'2" and shorter, and Kennard doesn't miss a shot all game. He's being called the next Scheyer (who helped deliver us a national title). Those are big shoes to fill.

IMO, here is my speculation for next year:

-Jahlil: guaranteed starter. #1 player in the class and probably the most polished inside game on the team. He is next year's Jabari, minus the insane offensive game and hopefully much better defense.
-Tyus: in-and-out starter. If Tyus starts, are we suggesting that Quinn and Rasheed both start as well? That is a super tiny perimeter, and one that I feel is really suspect on D.
-Justise: defensive specialist who may come off the bench for 5-10 min a game.
-Grayson: this year's Semi, ie spot minutes when we're up 20 points (barring no late game collapses)

I would take Matt Jones over Justise or Grayson next year. And I would take Quinn and Rasheed over Tyus. This is nothing against the recruits but rather more about my faith in our existing talent.

johnb
03-26-2014, 11:02 AM
We were relatively weak on defense not because of a lack of effort or athleticism, IMHO, but rather because our core guys were inexperienced with the Duke brand of help man to man defense, and we lacked a big body shot blocker to wipe away the mistakes. And the defense wasn't all bad all the time. It looked pretty good when we won against strong teams. Inconsistency would improve with experience.

We were young when looking at our best players. If looking at the whole team, we are about to have the biggest turnover that I can recall.

Semi wouldn't help with those issues. his background in Kansas and his height would ill prepare him to be the PF on our 2013-14 team.

He did score 40ish points per game in high school and is, by account, a terrific guy, and our 2014-15 will be VERY different from this past year' steam. Assuming we lose two our two stars to the Lottery, our best player is likely to be inside, and I still think there's a 50:50 chance that Turner will come to Duke when Jabari announces, which would mean our two most talented players are NBA interior players. Talented doesn't necessarily mean the consistently best, of course, but it does open up the team for an interior dunker defender who isn't 7 feet tall. And that is likely to be Justise, but I foresee Semi minutes when he really learns our system.

But even with Turner, there's a good chance that Amile starts alongside Okafor.

And I don't completely buy Murphy's rationale about minutes. His new team is #1 in the country without him. Think he's going to get 25" a game next year?

Henderson
03-26-2014, 11:14 AM
Winslow is a college SF and NBA SG. Given that we actually have height next year (Jahlil, Okafor, Amile), I'm not sure that Justise is gonna smell the 4. Also, our weakness next year, given Jabari goes pro, is at the 3. Also, if we want to fix our most glaring issue (defense, and more precisely penetration defense), and Winslow is known as a defensive stopper, giving Winslow minutes at the 3 makes a ton of sense.


You meant Jahlil, Marshall, Amile, right? Or maybe you were thinking Semi? Anyway, I mostly agree with your description of Justise's role next year. But I think he could hold his own at the 4. Have you seen how wide his shoulders are? He has to stand sideways to get into elevators.

Regarding Semi, I think he's just raw and needs time to learn the complexities and finer points of competing at a high D1 level. Not only did he not play AAU ball, but his high school was a little public school in a little midwestern town -- Ottawa KS, population 12,000. The college game is not only more advanced and complicated, but the opposing players (many of whom played at elite b'ball schools and/or got AAU coaching and experience) are a LOT more talented physically and can exploit an inexperienced player's rawness. As others in this thread have already pointed out in other ways.

I don't see Semi going anywhere. Where else would he learn what he needs to learn? And I think he will/is. It's more likely to be a gradual upswing, not a meteoric rise. And he's not likely to get a ton of PT next year, given the other options K will have at 2, 3, and 4. In his junior and senior years, it will depend on who else is on the team (and healthy) and how much progress Semi (whose last name is spelled "Ojeleye" by the way) can make. His upside is huge in my estimation.

MChambers
03-26-2014, 11:21 AM
It seems to be a law of nature that players on the bench are systematically undervalued in comparison to the new freshmen.
The same reason NFL fans often think the backup quarterback should be playing.

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 11:26 AM
You meant Jahlil, Marshall, Amile, right? Or maybe you were thinking Semi? Anyway, I mostly agree with your description of Justise's role next year. But I think he could hold his own at the 4. Have you seen how wide his shoulders are? He has to stand sideways to get into elevators.

You didn't hear? MP3 changed his first name to Jahlil... ;)

You're right, I meant MP3 instead of Okafor.

Justise does have wide shoulders. but Man-Child Semi is significantly bigger and he didn't seem comfortable at the 4 this year (in the tiny minutes that he played).

Anywho, if Semi isn't ready for the 4 next year, I assume that Amile will be eating a ton of minutes. In the 0.1% chance that Jabari returns and the 0.0000001% that Myles Turner commits, Justise isn't smelling the 4 at all.

UrinalCake
03-26-2014, 11:29 AM
:
-Jahlil: guaranteed starter. #1 player in the class and probably the most polished inside game on the team

PROBABLY? If Jahlil isn't our best inside scorer then that means one of two things: either he is a bust and we are royally screwed, or someone should investigate Marshall having switched bodies with one of his brothers.

eddiehaskell
03-26-2014, 11:35 AM
I know K doesn't guarantee anyone minutes, but I don't see Tyus coming to Duke without some sort of nudge or wink that he'll be receiving the bulk of PG duty. If he plays 15 mpg, his draft stock goes no where but down (a few mocks have him in the lotto).

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 11:36 AM
PROBABLY? If Jahlil isn't our best inside scorer then that means one of two things: either he is a bust and we are royally screwed, or someone should investigate Marshall having switched bodies with one of his brothers.

Or Jabari comes back (0.1% chance)? Or Al Jefferson found some eligibility left and transferred from the Bobcats to Duke (0.2% chance)? Or the Plumlees had a super forth son that includes the height of MP3, the defense and wingspan of MP1, and the post game of MP2 that is a 21-year old highschooler (0.3% chance)? Or Amile Jefferson got bitten by a radio-active spider, grew 4 inches, gained 40 pounds of pure muscle, and had the athleticism of Dwight Howard (2.4% chance).

I mean, these are all possible. So, yes, Jahlil probably is our best inside presence next year ;). You can never be too sure...

Chicago 1995
03-26-2014, 11:46 AM
It seems to be a law of nature that players on the bench are systematically undervalued in comparison to the new freshmen.

Or it's that we've see what the players on the bench can (and cannot) do, and think it might be in the teams short-term and long-term best interest to play the player with a higher ceiling and suffer through growing pains, rather than play a more experienced, but low-ceiling player.

Especially where the bench player is a role player with significant limitations in his game.

MCFinARL
03-26-2014, 11:54 AM
Not arguing with the general statement of the post, but he was used in the platooning. He wasn't used a lot, but he did get into those games with the second squad (as I recall).

Yes, you are right. Josh would come in with the platoon in the first half, but sometimes Semi came in with them in the second half, or subbed for Josh while the platoon was in. So he apparently wasn't the first option but he did see some time that way.

Gthoma2a
03-26-2014, 12:00 PM
1) Everyone on DBR - it's Justise, not Justice.
2) Winslow is a college SF and NBA SG. Given that we actually have height next year (Jahlil, Okafor, Amile), I'm not sure that Justise is gonna smell the 4. Also, our weakness next year, given Jabari goes pro, is at the 3. Also, if we want to fix our most glaring issue (defense, and more precisely penetration defense), and Winslow is known as a defensive stopper, giving Winslow minutes at the 3 makes a ton of sense.
3) Amile can rebound and defend smaller players. The 4 is his ideal position next year (and he's a natural 4 in college and the NBA), especially considering he'll pack on another 10 pounds or more in the off-season.

Let's hope he develops a shot, too. Otherwise, we will be using Justise, only, at the free throw line to play a zone. Amile was not effective there for much of the season, due to the fact that everyone knew he was merely looking for someone to pass to.

Kfanarmy
03-26-2014, 12:48 PM
And I don't completely buy Murphy's rationale about minutes. His new team is #1 in the country without him. Think he's going to get 25" a game next year?
I’m a Duke fan, but I’m not sure I understand this. you don’t buy Murphy’s rationale about minutes, because the team he is on, but isn’t eligible to play for, is #1 without him, and because he isn’t going to get much PT next year? So if he gets five or 10 MPG next year, it will be on the team that won the SEC tourney; entered the 2013-14 NCAA tournament ranked #1; and played in the S16 (replace with wherever they end up in the tourney-they are still in it). OTOH he left a team where he was essentially getting zero MPG, expecting more players at his position coming in, whose coach plays a relatively short bench, who will end up the season ranked outside the top ten and didn't get passed the round of 64 in the NCAA tourney. I think I buy his Playing Time argument, especially given the realities of the situation.

......Regarding Semi, I think he's just raw and needs time to learn the complexities and finer points of competing at a high D1 level. Not only did he not play AAU ball, but his high school was a little public school in a little midwestern town -- Ottawa KS, population 12,000. The college game is not only more advanced and complicated, but the opposing players (many of whom played at elite b'ball schools and/or got AAU coaching and experience) are a LOT more talented physically and can exploit an inexperienced player's rawness. As others in this thread have already pointed out in other ways…
I don't see Semi going anywhere. Where else would he learn what he needs to learn? And I think he will/is. It's more likely to be a gradual upswing, not a meteoric rise. And he's not likely to get a ton of PT next year, given the other options K will have at 2, 3, and 4. In his junior and senior years, it will depend on who else is on the team (and healthy) and how much progress Semi (whose last name is spelled "Ojeleye" by the way) can make. His upside is huge in my estimation.
I’m not sure how much exposure Semi has, but if he played on a team from a postage stamp in Kansas, how do we know that other players are “a LOT more talented physically?” I think it is a bit illogical to argue at once that the kid is raw because he didn’t play AAU ball, but we know how he stacks up in physical talent to players he hasn’t played against.
I suspect there are a lot of colleges who think they can teach him “what he needs to learn?” There are probably a lot of schools willing to take on a 6’7” 230lb forward, who has the potential to become a key contributor. I really am not a fan of the argument that these guys develop best in practice vice in-game. The kids who are developing fastest are doing both.

Like Murphy, I think Semi has the potential to transfer and would rather he play at Duke. However, I assume his goal is to play in basketball games so I would imagine he will assess that potential and weigh his options.

Des Esseintes
03-26-2014, 01:32 PM
I’m not sure how much exposure Semi has, but if he played on a team from a postage stamp in Kansas, how do we know that other players are “a LOT more talented physically?” I think it is a bit illogical to argue at once that the kid is raw because he didn’t play AAU ball, but we know how he stacks up in physical talent to players he hasn’t played against.
I suspect there are a lot of colleges who think they can teach him “what he needs to learn?” There are probably a lot of schools willing to take on a 6’7” 230lb forward, who has the potential to become a key contributor. I really am not a fan of the argument that these guys develop best in practice vice in-game. The kids who are developing fastest are doing both.


Dude, read what Henderson actually wrote before penning your tome. He said high D1 competition features players a lot more talented than what Semi faced in Kansas high school ball, not more talented than Semi himself.

budwom
03-26-2014, 01:48 PM
LOL at the notion of Winslow getting 5-10 minutes off the bench.

Li_Duke
03-26-2014, 02:20 PM
I would take Matt Jones over Justise or Grayson next year. And I would take Quinn and Rasheed over Tyus. This is nothing against the recruits but rather more about my faith in our existing talent.

Based on the recent presser, I'd take Tyus over Quinn (K: lack of good PG play this year; Quinn's best skill is shooting). I think we'll either see that small 3 guard line-up or Quinn is going to the 6th man.

Clay Feet POF
03-26-2014, 02:25 PM
Why do we continually fall into the trap of believing that the players who don't play, or those that haven't even arrived on campus yet, are better players than the ones that actually played? This is an argument of convenience that is way over-used.


Its not as simple as he’s on the bench therefore the player in the game is better. Flip side, if a guy is playing bad, therefore the guy on the bench is better. Two extremes, there should be room for discussion in the middle.

IMHO evaluation based on plugging short minutes for players is not the best method. I think a player Must feel comfortable (i.e. the game slowing down for him) 1 Physically, 2 Emotional and 3 Mentality. If these are absent then performance is not measured accurately.

Although the Line Change may not be the ultimate answer, I think it offers a better chance for more players to develop by providing them to experience the GAME FLOW (Again comfort) not just the plugging in of minutes of a single substitutions’.

I had trouble determining why Alex Murphy never seemed to display in games the talent we though he had. Rodney Hood was very impressed with his talents, and two of his high school teammates are currently important contributors at their schools. Nik Stauskas at Michigan and Kaleb Tarczewski at Arizona and arguably Alex was the best of the three. It will be interesting to see how he does at Florida. I’m thinking he will be a very important player!

I think we have players on our bench who can contribute if we let them, especially with all the incoming talent for 2014-15.

CDu
03-26-2014, 02:26 PM
I would take Matt Jones over Justise or Grayson next year. And I would take Quinn and Rasheed over Tyus. This is nothing against the recruits but rather more about my faith in our existing talent.

I would take M. Jones over Allen. Not so sure about over Winslow. Though that's at least a debatable topic (extra year of experience versus higher-rated talent).

In terms of PG play, based on Coach K's comments as well as everything else I've heard/seen of T. Jones and their ratings as PG, I'd take T. Jones over either Cook or Sulaimon at PG. I would take either Cook or Sulaimon over T. Jones at SG.

Coach K didn't exactly sing our PG praises this year. And he seemed very excited to have T. Jones playing PG next year.

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 02:34 PM
I would take M. Jones over Allen. Not so sure about over Winslow. Though that's at least a debatable topic (extra year of experience versus higher-rated talent).

In terms of PG play, based on Coach K's comments as well as everything else I've heard/seen of T. Jones and their ratings as PG, I'd take T. Jones over either Cook or Sulaimon at PG. I would take either Cook or Sulaimon over T. Jones at SG.

Coach K didn't exactly sing our PG praises this year. And he seemed very excited to have T. Jones playing PG next year.

You think Coach K has DBR-itis? The condition where you think all recruits are automatically better than your current players? ;)

In all seriousness, I want to undervalue recruits to a) reduce my optimism is case recruits don't work out as we hoped and b) give more credit to existing players that I already have an emotional attachment to (I'm looking at you, Sulaimon).

jv001
03-26-2014, 02:37 PM
I would take M. Jones over Allen. Not so sure about over Winslow. Though that's at least a debatable topic (extra year of experience versus higher-rated talent).

In terms of PG play, based on Coach K's comments as well as everything else I've heard/seen of T. Jones and their ratings as PG, I'd take T. Jones over either Cook or Sulaimon at PG. I would take either Cook or Sulaimon over T. Jones at SG.

Coach K didn't exactly sing our PG praises this year. And he seemed very excited to have T. Jones playing PG next year.

You heard the same things I heard CDu. Coach K said point guard play was inconsistent this year and Tyler had to play the point out of necessity. He also said that Tyus is an outstanding leader. I expect Tyus will be the Duke point guard. He also said Quinn's best strength is his shooting. That tells me he may be considering Quinn as a 2G. If that's the case, Rasheed will be the SF, or the first man off the bench. Matt Jones is going to have to improve his shooting to get many minutes.That's a long way off and anything can happen before tipoff of next season. GoDuke!

CDu
03-26-2014, 02:37 PM
You think Coach K has DBR-itis? The condition where you think all recruits are automatically better than your current players? ;)

In all seriousness, I want to undervalue recruits to a) reduce my optimism is case recruits don't work out as we hoped and b) give more credit to existing players that I already have an emotional attachment to (I'm looking at you, Sulaimon).

I hear you. And it is quite often the case that the returning players are more ready to contribute than the freshmen. But would you have argued for Hairston and Jefferson over Parker? Sometimes it really is true that the incoming player is better than the incumbent.

tendev
03-26-2014, 02:44 PM
What if he chose Duke for the same reason lots of other kids who don't play basketball do?

-jk
03-26-2014, 02:47 PM
I hear you. And it is quite often the case that the returning players are more ready to contribute than the freshmen. But would you have argued for Hairston and Jefferson over Parker? Sometimes it really is true that the incoming player is better than the incumbent.


At times, such as when Jabari wouldn't defend or rebound...

-jk

flyingdutchdevil
03-26-2014, 03:34 PM
What if he chose Duke for the same reason lots of other kids who don't play basketball do?

The weather? Or for Dillo?

Nope. Can't be the latter. They closed the Dillo :(

Henderson
03-26-2014, 05:12 PM
I would take M. Jones over Allen. Not so sure about over Winslow. Though that's at least a debatable topic (extra year of experience versus higher-rated talent).

In terms of PG play, based on Coach K's comments as well as everything else I've heard/seen of T. Jones and their ratings as PG, I'd take T. Jones over either Cook or Sulaimon at PG. I would take either Cook or Sulaimon over T. Jones at SG.

Coach K didn't exactly sing our PG praises this year. And he seemed very excited to have T. Jones playing PG next year.

What I heard from K's press conference today is that leadership matters a lot, especially from really talented players. But he's willing to play players who exhibit leadership even if they aren't necessarily the most gifted athletes on the court. He singled out Tyler Thornton. That suggests to me that we may be seeing a tilt toward veterans next year except among the extraordinarily gifted or those who exhibit leadership qualities early on. In other words, if you are a freshman, you have to step up and not count on playing ahead of a guy just because you can beat him one on one.

If Rasheed and Quinn answer the bell regarding leadership, I think they will both start ahead of players who may be more touted. Of course, Jahlil's on his own track just like Jabari was this year. But K seems to have a renewed appreciation for the importance of on court leadership as a critical quality when judging the overall skill set of a player. I think his press conference today was in part designed to send that message to some guys currently on the squad.

Edouble
03-27-2014, 02:25 AM
You heard the same things I heard CDu. Coach K said point guard play was inconsistent this year and Tyler had to play the point out of necessity. He also said that Tyus is an outstanding leader. I expect Tyus will be the Duke point guard. He also said Quinn's best strength is his shooting. That tells me he may be considering Quinn as a 2G. If that's the case, Rasheed will be the SF, or the first man off the bench. Matt Jones is going to have to improve his shooting to get many minutes.That's a long way off and anything can happen before tipoff of next season. GoDuke!

To me that means that either Rasheed will be the SF, or Quinn will be the first man off the bench.

I'd be pretty surprised if our starting five next year wasn't Tyus, Sheed, Justise, Amile, and Jahill. I know that's 3 freshman. Maybe Matt starts over Justise, but both play starter minutes.

In any case, I don't see much PT for Semi. He was the 11th guy on the squad this year. I think it will be very hard for Semi to jump past the six mentioned above plus Marshall and Quinn, in the rotation. If he's the 9th guy, he's not gonna see the floor too much.

Semi seems like he is the kind of guy that might contribute in his 3rd/4th year in a reserve role. JMO

JPtheGame
03-27-2014, 04:06 AM
Semi should redshirt. He probably should apply for last year to count as a redshirt season. Not sure of the minutes limits on that one so if not last year, then this year. Its going to take some time for his skill to match his stature and the game is obviously too fast for him right now. Its like K referenced at his presser, he regrets not redshirting Ryan Kelly because he wasnt physically ready at 18 but would have been a huge asset at 22-23. Same thing with Semi. He's going to sit around for awhile and when its time for him to leave, we will all wish we had an extra year with him.

CDu
03-27-2014, 06:51 AM
Semi should redshirt. He probably should apply for last year to count as a redshirt season. Not sure of the minutes limits on that one so if not last year, then this year. Its going to take some time for his skill to match his stature and the game is obviously too fast for him right now. Its like K referenced at his presser, he regrets not redshirting Ryan Kelly because he wasnt physically ready at 18 but would have been a huge asset at 22-23. Same thing with Semi. He's going to sit around for awhile and when its time for him to leave, we will all wish we had an extra year with him.

The redshirt is not an option as he played in too many games and too late into the season.

Bluedog
03-27-2014, 07:57 AM
What if he chose Duke for the same reason lots of other kids who don't play basketball do?

Good point as I'm sure strong academics was a major contributing factor for Semi as a 4.0 GPA student in high school. However, when you're considered one of the top 40 players in the entire country in a sport in your class and you dedicate countless hours honing your skills is said sport, clearly success and growth in that avenue is also at the forefront of your mind.

Kedsy
03-27-2014, 08:12 AM
In any case, I don't see much PT for Semi. He was the 11th guy on the squad this year. I think it will be very hard for Semi to jump past the six mentioned above plus Marshall and Quinn, in the rotation. If he's the 9th guy, he's not gonna see the floor too much.

You may be right, but I'd add that unless Justise is capable of defending opposing PFs (not clear at his size), then Semi is also the 4th big and thus could see minutes in that capacity. On the other hand, if Quinn is our first guy off the bench, then in your scenario whoever of Justise and Matt is not starting will be the 5th perimeter player and will be very unlikely to see starters' minutes as you suggest. My guess is (absent injury) the 5th perimeter guy will average at most 10 to 12 minutes, and Semi as the 4th big will average 6 to 8. Until March, of course, when both those guys' minutes will probably shrink down to negligible.

Another ramification of Semi being the 4th big is he doesn't have to jump eight guys to get decent playing time, he only has to jump one (presumably Marshall), though at this moment even that seems pretty unlikely.

CDu
03-27-2014, 08:37 AM
You may be right, but I'd add that unless Justise is capable of defending opposing PFs (not clear at his size), then Semi is also the 4th big and thus could see minutes in that capacity. On the other hand, if Quinn is our first guy off the bench, then in your scenario whoever of Justise and Matt is not starting will be the 5th perimeter player and will be very unlikely to see starters' minutes as you suggest. My guess is (absent injury) the 5th perimeter guy will average at most 10 to 12 minutes, and Semi as the 4th big will average 6 to 8. Until March, of course, when both those guys' minutes will probably shrink down to negligible.

Another ramification of Semi being the 4th big is he doesn't have to jump eight guys to get decent playing time, he only has to jump one (presumably Marshall), though at this moment even that seems pretty unlikely.

I mostly agree that some minutes will be available, but it probably won't be a heck of a lot.

Let's think about it in terms of minutes per player. At PF/C, we have 80 mpg. But do we really expect Plumlee and Okafor to share the court together for long periods of time? I don't. I would expect something like 28 mpg for Okafor and 16 mpg for Plumlee. That leaves 36 mpg at PF. I'd expect Jefferson to take the lion's share of those (let's say 28). That leaves about 8 mpg for somebody else. That would be the 6-8 mpg you're talking about, which would likely go to Ojeleye. And as you said, when we get to tourney time, I'd expect those minutes to decrease to 3-4 mpg with some DNPs.

At PG/SG, I see the trio of Tyus Jones, Cook, and Sulaimon taking virtually all of those minutes. In fact, I'd not be surprised if those three exceed 80 mpg combined, meaning they cut into the SF minutes a bit. Let's say another 4 mpg cut into the SF spot, so ~36 mpg left for SF (presumably split between Winslow, Matt Jones, and Ojeleye). If Winslow is good enough to average 25+ mpg, that leaves about 10 mpg (or less) for the 5th perimeter guy. And again, as the tourney season arrives, those minutes for the 5th wing are likely to decrease.

Basically, we're still talking about a situation where the 8th and 9th guys on the roster (4th big man and 5th guard/wing) are going to get pretty limited minutes during the season and then marginalized come tourney time. Unless Coach K deviates substantially from the norm. And given that he didn't deviate substantially from the norm this year (with even more depth and less clear separation amongst some of the players), I'd be fairly surprised if he does so next year.

I agree, though, that Ojeleye's most likely path to minutes will be at PF. The perimeter is going to be a fairly crowded picture.

jimrowe0
03-27-2014, 08:39 AM
Another ramification of Semi being the 4th big is he doesn't have to jump eight guys to get decent playing time, he only has to jump one (presumably Marshall), though at this moment even that seems pretty unlikely.

Giving his leaping ability, I am sure Semi can jump over Marshall...and dunk. I think Semi has the possibility to play some at the 3 and/or 4 if he can play defense effectively.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viB6rGUhEIM&feature=player_embedded

CameronBornAndBred
03-27-2014, 09:46 AM
Out of curiousity I did some searching to determine if there was a general consensus on Semi in the pre-season, as far as expectations go. Each year after our season ends, it doesn't take long for the talk of next year's roster to take shape; who starts, who plays what position, who gets the minutes. I give kudos to the folks that joined in the discussion, for the most part it was felt that Semi was a raw talent needed developing and therefore was going to fit one of two scenarios. He would either come in for decent, but not major, minutes because of his natural abilities, or he would sit and develop his skills in practice.
In fact, Scout.com echoed those thoughts on their profile blurb about him.

Ojeleye is a player who has a ton of upside and potential given his natural gifts. He has a body where he can play and at times dominate against at either forward position. He is a good athlete who can make shots out to the three point line, and also has shown toughness. Now he does need to be more consistent with his effort and show more of a desire to dominate, especially down low.
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=5505411
After looking back through a few dozen posts....Jnort wins. Here is what he wrote.



I just don't buy the Ojeleye hype. At least not that he is good enough to play significant mins his first year. In his YouTube highlights he gets little seperation and does not get open off his own stipple very well. He uses his raw strength to score and bully people around. In college guys will be stronger than they were in high school. I think his 1st year or two will have more growing pains than many expect.

On a fun sidenote, it turns out that if anyone needs a guy with a crystal ball, then go find Jim Sumner. That guy rivals Nostradamus.
From the "who starts" thread posted sometime in the spring/summer last year....

Jefferson, Hairston, Plumlee, Parker and Murphy will each play eight minutes per game at the 5.


Think hockey line changes.


Ojeleye at the 5? Now, that's just silly.
He may have been talking about only one position, but Nostradamus didn't get his predictions exactly perfect either. ;)

CDu
03-27-2014, 10:49 AM
Out of curiousity I did some searching to determine if there was a general consensus on Semi in the pre-season, as far as expectations go. Each year after our season ends, it doesn't take long for the talk of next year's roster to take shape; who starts, who plays what position, who gets the minutes. I give kudos to the folks that joined in the discussion, for the most part it was felt that Semi was a raw talent needed developing and therefore was going to fit one of two scenarios. He would either come in for decent, but not major, minutes because of his natural abilities, or he would sit and develop his skills in practice.

For those interested in taking a ride on the time machine: here are a few of the threads discussing Ojeleye's prospects for this past season:
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?30069-Semi-Ojeleye
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?31619-A-new-approach-to-minutes-played-next-year


I think many of us suspected that Ojeleye (and Jones) would probably play limited minutes this year). I think the folks that felt Ojeleye would play meaningful minutes either thought Coach K would really play a deeper bench, believed his skill was sufficiently close to his athleticism, or maybe just bought into the freshman/recruit hype.

As in that thread, I suspect that next year we're going to again have 2-3 players for whom folks complain about a lack of minutes.

Edouble
03-27-2014, 02:12 PM
You may be right, but I'd add that unless Justise is capable of defending opposing PFs (not clear at his size), then Semi is also the 4th big and thus could see minutes in that capacity. On the other hand, if Quinn is our first guy off the bench, then in your scenario whoever of Justise and Matt is not starting will be the 5th perimeter player and will be very unlikely to see starters' minutes as you suggest. My guess is (absent injury) the 5th perimeter guy will average at most 10 to 12 minutes, and Semi as the 4th big will average 6 to 8. Until March, of course, when both those guys' minutes will probably shrink down to negligible.

Another ramification of Semi being the 4th big is he doesn't have to jump eight guys to get decent playing time, he only has to jump one (presumably Marshall), though at this moment even that seems pretty unlikely.

Yes, you're right that the minutes begin to run out if you have five guys on the perimeter. I was thinking that Justise's "starter minutes" might involve taking a few minutes at PF, as opposed to Semi seeing time, particularly if we go to stall ball/small ball at crunch time. I agree with you that it may or may not work at his size.

Can Marshall and Jahill pay on the court at the same time? If so, then I think Semi gets zero minutes, with Amile, Jahill, and Marshall splitting the 80 "big" minutes three ways.

But no matter how the minutes are divided up, the thing that I keep coming back to is that Semi couldn't beat Josh out for playing time this year. No disrespect to Josh, but that has me thinking that Semi is a multi year project. I would be delighted to be wrong.

CDu
03-27-2014, 02:24 PM
Can Marshall and Jahill pay on the court at the same time? If so, then I think Semi gets zero minutes, with Amile, Jahill, and Marshall splitting the 80 "big" minutes three ways.

I don't see a lineup of Plumlee and Okafor on the floor together being a very good idea - on either end of the floor. To lacking in quickness on defense; too lacking in shooting range on offense. So I think there are probably about 5-10 mpg (if not more) available to Ojeleye if he's ready.


But no matter how the minutes are divided up, the thing that I keep coming back to is that Semi couldn't beat Josh out for playing time this year. No disrespect to Josh, but that has me thinking that Semi is a multi year project. I would be delighted to be wrong.

On the one hand, I agree. On the other, it could also just be a case in which Coach K felt he needed to use Hairston for his experience, leadership, and understanding of the defensive principles. It wasn't like we needed another offensive weapon out there, and it would be unfair for Ojeleye to be expected to know the defense as well as a senior Hairston. And remember: Ojeleye was a SF in high school. On this team, minutes were only really up for grabs at C (Hood and Dawkins were clearly more ready options at SF and Parker and Jefferson were clearly more ready options at PF). I think it would be unreasonable to expect a freshman to make the transition from high school SF to college C. It worked (sort of) for Singler, but he's pretty much an exceptional case.

That's not to say that Ojeleye's lack of minutes this year shouldn't serve as a question mark moving forward. But I just don't think that we can say with certainty that his inability to displace Hairston as a backup PF/C is clear evidence that he won't be ready to play SF/PF next year.