Shaka Smart and Coach K

[SoCalDukeFan]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/03/18/shaka-smart-fires-back-at-coach-k-over-a-10-diss/

SoCal

[cptnflash]

Shaka is 100% correct. It was dumb for Coach K to specifically name another conference when he was arguing in favor of more ACC teams getting into the tournament. No upside to that at all.

[Troublemaker]

I agree with Shaka as well.

I wish Coach K hadn't mentioned another conference. That bothered me more than Coach K's reffing/media coverage of reffing comments.

[weezie]

Ahhhh, shaka...
Wonder why he didn't take the ncsu job? Guess it was beneath him as one friendly poster here opined to me.
Wouldn't it have been swell to watch shaka take on the big bad K twice a year?

[moonpie23]

shaka shoulda shook while he was hot….

[DBFAN]

Shaka you are fooling nobody. There are thousands of people who have said that the A10 is weak, but yet you only make a public spectacle when K says something. If I had to guess, it would be because nobody will run with a story if you get upset with Joe Blow at the local newspaper, but you know good and well that if you act upset with K that the media will go nuts about it, and your name will be mentioned by every person on ESPN and Twitter for the next week...Please Shaka tell me again who it is that is self promoting here...

[DBFAN]

Why does he get upset, he goes on to say that every team is judged individually, so what does it matter what K says about the conference.

[DBFAN]

I mean it's not like Shaka ever promoted the CAA before while dissing every team in the state of Virginia..oh wait

[Owen Meany]

I mean it's not like Shaka ever promoted the CAA before while dissing every team in the state of Virginia..oh wait

Since some may not be familiar with what you are talking about:

Asked Monday on a teleconference with reporters whether it's important to him for VCU be considered the state of Virginia's top program, Smart acknowledged that was crucial for recruiting. He then pointed out that Colonial Athletic Association powers VCU, George Mason and Old Dominion have each enjoyed more success than Virginia and Virginia Tech in recent years.

"There's certain schools you end up recruiting against and maybe schools that aren't even in our league that kind of beat their chest and say they have the best program in the state," Smart said. "The reality is if you go by the numbers, if you go by postseason, if you go by guys going to the NBA, the best programs in the state are in the CAA and it's not even close.

"In terms of recent success, in terms of postseason appearances and success, in terms of some of the players that have come through our program, George Mason, Old Dominion, yes, I think we are ahead of them."

[Scorp4me]

I think DBFAN hit the nail on the head. Shaka's complaint is only a story because it involved K.

[brevity]

Shaka you are fooling nobody. There are thousands of people who have said that the A10 is weak, but yet you only make a public spectacle when K says something. If I had to guess, it would be because nobody will run with a story if you get upset with Joe Blow at the local newspaper, but you know good and well that if you act upset with K that the media will go nuts about it, and your name will be mentioned by every person on ESPN and Twitter for the next week...Please Shaka tell me again who it is that is self promoting here...


I think DBFAN hit the nail on the head. Shaka's complaint is only a story because it involved K.

Methinks neither of you understand how journalism works.

Coach K started this by specifically pointing to the Atlantic 10 Conference and wondering, aloud, if 6 of its teams would make the NCAA Tournament if they had to go through the grind of the ACC. (This is a valid question, but not one that Coach K should make in public, especially when Duke is expected to face an A-10 team on Sunday.)

Shaka Smart, who like most coaches is taking some time this week to speak to media outlets, is asked about this statement. The linked story is his response. Contrary to the mildly (but deliberately) inflammatory headline, Smart "fires back" at absolutely nothing; he doesn't say anything anti-ACC at all:


“First of all, comparing your own league to someone else’s league is like me saying that my daughter is cuter than your daughter,” Smart said (via ESPN). “There’s a level of bias that comes into play that you shouldn’t even make those comments. Secondly, coaches are too busy to be an authority on someone else’s conference.

“I know our league really well because we’ve been in our league preparing for our league, but I don’t know much about anyone else’s league beyond the teams we’ve played in non-conference play.”

I think the 2 key words here are "via ESPN." I don't know if he was in a Bristol studio, or on the Subway Fresh Take hotline with any of 500 radio hosts, or e-mailing an ESPN blogger. It wasn't an unprompted comment, like from a press conference or a tweet. Shaka Smart didn't exactly jump into any sort of fray here.

I know DBR likes to drink the Coach Kool-Aid all the time, but come on already. We're all anxious for the Round of 64 games to start, so find a better delusion to get you to Thursday.

[DBFAN]

Methinks neither of you understand how journalism works.

Coach K started this by specifically pointing to the Atlantic 10 Conference and wondering, aloud, if 6 of its teams would make the NCAA Tournament if they had to go through the grind of the ACC. (This is a valid question, but not one that Coach K should make in public, especially when Duke is expected to face an A-10 team on Sunday.)

Shaka Smart, who like most coaches is taking some time this week to speak to media outlets, is asked about this statement. The linked story is his response. Contrary to the mildly (but deliberately) inflammatory headline, Smart "fires back" at absolutely nothing; he doesn't say anything anti-ACC at all:



I think the 2 key words here are "via ESPN." I don't know if he was in a Bristol studio, or on the Subway Fresh Take hotline with any of 500 radio hosts, or e-mailing an ESPN blogger. It wasn't an unprompted comment, like from a press conference or a tweet. Shaka Smart didn't exactly jump into any sort of fray here.

I know DBR likes to drink the Coach Kool-Aid all the time, but come on already. We're all anxious for the Round of 64 games to start, so find a better delusion to get you to Thursday.

Wow I had no idea you think Shaka Smart isn't smart enough to know that making a comment like that would start a fire, in context or out of context. I mean ESPN has only been around for a short time

Funny tho we make some comments about another teams coach and you feel the need to become sarcastic towards the posters. The only one that seems to be drinking the Kool Aid is the one who actually thinks that every player and coach don't weigh their words. They know the effect they have by what they say. Same way K knew what his effect had on the committee by hinting that State needed to make it. Also as I type this it looks like K was right about State being a good decision.

[ICP]

I think the most important thing here was that K was right, it is ridiculous for A 10 to have more teams than the ACC. If their teams would play in our conference, it's hard to see how more than 1 or 2 of them would finish above 500 and be in discussion to get in the NCAA tourney. George Washington? Dayton? Please...

[Dukehky]

I think the most important thing here was that K was right, it is ridiculous for A 10 to have more teams than the ACC. If their teams would play in our conference, it's hard to see how more than 1 or 2 of them would finish above 500 and be in discussion to get in the NCAA tourney. George Washington? Dayton? Please...

I mean, I'd rather play UMASS than Tennessee or Iowa even with this extra little fire. He probably shouldn't have called out a conference, but he's right, and when you're right, you're right.

[duke4ever19]

4009


In other news, I nominate Steve Carell to play our beloved coach in the future Coach K biopic.

[JNort]

Kinda surprise that this is even a newsworthy type of story. Coach K is right and that's all there is to it. Who scares teams more? Dayton or State? St Louis or UVA? Cuse or VCU? Duke or George Washington?

[VesuvianSauce63]

Shaka you are fooling nobody. There are thousands of people who have said that the A10 is weak, but yet you only make a public spectacle when K says something. If I had to guess, it would be because nobody will run with a story if you get upset with Joe Blow at the local newspaper, but you know good and well that if you act upset with K that the media will go nuts about it, and your name will be mentioned by every person on ESPN and Twitter for the next week...Please Shaka tell me again who it is that is self promoting here...

Can't agree. When Coach K says something like this, it's not just Joe Blow, it's coming from the most well-known, revered and respected coach in America. It resonates and becomes widely covered national news. Given that, Shaka felt compelled to reply to the direct challenge. I think he was absolutely correct in doing so. He was not self-promoting.

[Edouble]

Kinda surprise that this is even a newsworthy type of story. Coach K is right and that's all there is to it. Who scares teams more? Dayton or State? St Louis or UVA? Cuse or VCU? Duke or George Washington?

NCState is set up to play St. Louis. There is a very good chance that Duke will play UMass and UVA will play George Washington.

Dayton vs. Syracuse is a real possibility as well.

What a great subplot to the 2014 tournament!

[ice-9]

Kinda surprise that this is even a newsworthy type of story. Coach K is right and that's all there is to it. Who scares teams more? Dayton or State? St Louis or UVA? Cuse or VCU? Duke or George Washington?

FSU beat VCU and UMass in the regular season. FSU is in the NIT while the two are in the NCAA tournament. At the time, FSU was thought to be the ACC's only bubble team.

I wonder if Coach K named the A-10 specifically for FSU's benefit?

[juise]

In honor of this thread, I have named my bracket for work: "A-10? A-10 my ACC," which seems clever at midnight, but will probably not get any laughs out here on the West Coast.

[lotusland]

4009


In other news, I nominate Steve Carell to play our beloved coach in the future Coach K biopic.

Alas the Piggly Wiggly closed here. Unfortunate as I was Big on the Pig...

[weezie]

NCState is set up to play St. Louis. There is a very good chance that Duke will play UMass and UVA will play George Washington.

Dayton vs. Syracuse is a real possibility as well.

What a great subplot to the 2014 tournament!

A triumph of snooziness!

[Atlanta Duke]

Can't agree. When Coach K says something like this, it's not just Joe Blow, it's coming from the most well-known, revered and respected coach in America. It resonates and becomes widely covered national news. Given that, Shaka felt compelled to reply to the direct challenge. I think he was absolutely correct in doing so. He was not self-promoting.

As posted above, Coach Smart did the same thing in 2012

This is the link to Coach Smart comparing CAA teams to UVA and Virginia Tech

Shaka Smart: CAA’s Virginia teams are better than the ACC’s
http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=717105

I would prefer coaches not diss other conferences, but since Shaka Smart went there previously it is hypocritical for him to say coaches should not make such comments

[jipops]

I think both coaches are right. Oh, and who cares?

[luburch]

I think both coaches are right. Oh, and who cares?

Because if we can't overreact to a coach's quote, what would we ever talk about?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I think both coaches are right. Oh, and who cares?

This, exactly. Both coaches did what good coaches do and defended their teams and their conference.

Now, let's go CRUSH their conference!

Or something.

[ChillinDuke]

I think the most important thing here was that K was right, it is ridiculous for A 10 to have more teams than the ACC. If their teams would play in our conference, it's hard to see how more than 1 or 2 of them would finish above 500 and be in discussion to get in the NCAA tourney. George Washington? Dayton? Please...

I agree. Remember when the Big East was unquestionably the best basketball conference - far better than the ACC? Well three of their best teams are now in our conference and did not exactly blow away the competition.

I suspect the A-10 would fare worse.


This, exactly. Both coaches did what good coaches do and defended their teams and their conference.

Now, let's go CRUSH their conference!

Or something.

Agree here too. This is just coaches posturing for their conferences. Nothing personal.

Fine by me.

- Chillin

[Reilly]

My favorite "the A-10 is not that good" story -- maybe my favorite sports story ever -- is from 2004 when Billy Packer, in his cranky, ill-informed, but oh-so-assured way, went on and on as to how St. Joe's did not deserve a #1 seed -- no way, not even close.

Phil Martelli then got in front of his cheering fans and said "Billy Packer can kiss my ....":
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/68601220/the-2004-st-joes-hawks-surprised-the-basketball-world

Oh man, was that so perfect. And the thing is, Martelli was right, and Packer was wrong. St. Joe's was a very worthy #1 seed, losing in the elite 8 by 2 points, beating Packer's big-conference WFU along the way, and St. Joe's had two NBA guards (Nelson is in his 10th NBA year, still going, made an NBA all-star team, and had a high season average of 16.7 points one year; West played 8 NBA seasons, and had a high average of 12.2 points one year).

In 2004, St. Joe's ended up at #5 in the SRS ... clearly they were worthy of a #1 seed:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2004-ratings.html

Looking at the SRS this year, however, shows the Coach K is probably right.

Duke 20.4
UVa 18.5
Pitt 17.4
Syr 16.2
UNC 15.5
VCU 15 - first A10 team, 5 points worse than Duke, and maybe 6th place in the ACC if in our league
FSU 12.5 - ACC team left out of the dance
St. Louis 11.7 - A10 team invited
Maryland 11.2 - ACC team left out of the dance
Clemson 11.4 - ACC team left out of the dance
UMass 11.2 - A10 team invited
GWU 10.9 - A10 team invited
Dayton 9.7 - A10 team invited
St. Joes 9.2 - A10 team (auto qualifier)
NCSU 9.2 - ACC team invited
----------------------------------------------------

Notre Dame 8.4
Miami 7.8
St. Bonnie's 6.0 - A10
Richmond 5.8 - A10
WFU 5.7
GT 5.3
LaSalle 4.2 - A10
BC 3.2
Rhode Island 3.0 - A10
Geo Mason 2.3 - A10
VT 2.1
Duquesne 0.8 - A10
Fordham -3.1 - A10

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/acc/2014.html

Some takeaways for me:

1. St. Joe's in 2004 was very deserving. Billy Packer was totally wrong.

2. K is right saying the ACC is a meatgrinder compared to the A10. ACC has 5 schools ranked above the top A10 team. And if you combine the 28 schools together, 4 of the bottom 5, and 5 of the bottom 7, would be A10 schools.

3. Combining the standings based on the SRS shows that three ACC teams (FSU, Maryland, Clemson) had higher SRS ratings than four A10 teams who were invited (UMass, GWU, Dayton ... and St. Joe's (auto qualifier, however)).

4. However, we're not talking huge differences -- 3 points separate this block of schools. Here are the questionable "at large" results:

FSU 12.5 - ACC team left out of the dance
St. Louis 11.7 - A10 team invited
Maryland 11.2 - ACC team left out of the dance
Clemson 11.4 - ACC team left out of the dance
UMass 11.2 - A10 team invited
GWU 10.9 - A10 team invited
Dayton 9.7 - A10 team invited
NCSU 9.2 - ACC team invited

4 of 4 A10 teams get invited .... whereas 1 of 4 ACC teams in this similarly-situated group got invited.

Billy Packer was wrong in 2004. K is right in 2014.

(And another discussion ... I think those who argue Wichita State is not deserving of a #1 seed would be much more right than Packer was: Wichita State is #19 in the SRS and Louisville is #1).

[MCFinARL]

NCState is set up to play St. Louis. There is a very good chance that Duke will play UMass and UVA will play George Washington.

Dayton vs. Syracuse is a real possibility as well.

What a great subplot to the 2014 tournament!

So--ACC better represent, or K will never hear the end of it!

[uh_no]

My favorite "the A-10 is not that good" story -- maybe my favorite sports story ever -- is from 2004 when Billy Packer, in his cranky, ill-informed, but oh-so-assured way, went on and on as to how St. Joe's did not deserve a #1 seed -- no way, not even close.

Phil Martelli then got in front of his cheering fans and said "Billy Packer can kiss my ....":
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/68601220/the-2004-st-joes-hawks-surprised-the-basketball-world

Oh man, was that so perfect. And the thing is, Martelli was right, and Packer was wrong. St. Joe's was a very worthy #1 seed, losing in the elite 8 by 2 points, beating Packer's big-conference WFU along the way, and St. Joe's had two NBA guards (Nelson is in his 10th NBA year, still going, made an NBA all-star team, and had a high season average of 16.7 points one year; West played 8 NBA seasons, and had a high average of 12.2 points one year).

In 2004, St. Joe's ended up at #5 in the SRS ... clearly they were worthy of a #1 seed:
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/2004-ratings.html

Looking at the SRS this year, however, shows the Coach K is probably right.

Duke 20.4
UVa 18.5
Pitt 17.4
Syr 16.2
UNC 15.5
VCU 15 - first A10 team, 5 points worse than Duke, and maybe 6th place in the ACC if in our league
FSU 12.5 - ACC team left out of the dance
St. Louis 11.7 - A10 team invited
Maryland 11.2 - ACC team left out of the dance
Clemson 11.4 - ACC team left out of the dance
UMass 11.2 - A10 team invited
GWU 10.9 - A10 team invited
Dayton 9.7 - A10 team invited
St. Joes 9.2 - A10 team (auto qualifier)
NCSU 9.2 - ACC team invited
----------------------------------------------------

Notre Dame 8.4
Miami 7.8
St. Bonnie's 6.0 - A10
Richmond 5.8 - A10
WFU 5.7
GT 5.3
LaSalle 4.2 - A10
BC 3.2
Rhode Island 3.0 - A10
Geo Mason 2.3 - A10
VT 2.1
Duquesne 0.8 - A10
Fordham -3.1 - A10

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/conferences/acc/2014.html

Some takeaways for me:

1. St. Joe's in 2004 was very deserving. Billy Packer was totally wrong.

2. K is right saying the ACC is a meatgrinder compared to the A10. ACC has 5 schools ranked above the top A10 team. And if you combine the 28 schools together, 4 of the bottom 5, and 5 of the bottom 7, would be A10 schools.

3. Combining the standings based on the SRS shows that three ACC teams (FSU, Maryland, Clemson) had higher SRS ratings than four A10 teams who were invited (UMass, GWU, Dayton ... and St. Joe's (auto qualifier, however)).

4. However, we're not talking huge differences -- 3 points separate this block of schools. Here are the questionable "at large" results:

FSU 12.5 - ACC team left out of the dance
St. Louis 11.7 - A10 team invited
Maryland 11.2 - ACC team left out of the dance
Clemson 11.4 - ACC team left out of the dance
UMass 11.2 - A10 team invited
GWU 10.9 - A10 team invited
Dayton 9.7 - A10 team invited
NCSU 9.2 - ACC team invited

4 of 4 A10 teams get invited .... whereas 1 of 4 ACC teams in this similarly-situated group got invited.

Billy Packer was wrong in 2004. K is right in 2014.

(And another discussion ... I think those who argue Wichita State is not deserving of a #1 seed would be much more right than Packer was: Wichita State is #19 in the SRS and Louisville is #1).

this is a valuable post, and you did a good bit of work...but i'd be wary of taking a single metric, even SRS as the be-all-end-all of team goodness...

[Reilly]

4. Virginia (auto)
6. Duke
................ 12. VCU
14. Syr
16. Pitt
26. UNC
................ 34. St. L
38. FSU
39. MD
................ 41. GWU
44. Clemson
................. 49. St. Joe's (auto)
................. 50. UMass
................. 51. Dayton
53. NCSU

**********************************************

66. Mia
...................87. St. Bonnie's
...................92. Richmond
101. ND
...................106. RI
...................107 LaSalle
111. GT
113. WFU
....................138 Geo Mason
139. BC
.................... 145 DuQuesne
190. VT
......................203 Fordham


Kenpom seems to track SRS. There's no great travesty in the world when the Kenpom #41, 50 and 51 teams get invited, and the Kenpom # 38, 39, and 44 do not get invited. These are all similarly-situated teams, and one could see that distribution of 3 in and 3 out ... but when all 3 that get in are A10, and all three left out are ACC, and the ACC rankings are 1, 2 and 4 out of those 6, it starts looking suspicious. That State got in tempers the unfairness a bit. All in all, I think K is right: ACC is more of a meatgrinder ... and maybe one more ACC team should have gotten in (FSU) and one A10 team left out.

* Kenpom's final 2004 rankings have St. Joe's #5 in the country -- same as SRS.

[alteran]

I think both coaches are right. Oh, and who cares?

Pretty much agree.

The article titles are far more inflammatory than anything either coach actually said.

I agree with K that the ACC has been underrepresented in the NCAA tournament a number of times in the last 5 or 6 years. I think it's a good idea to push back a little.

[CameronDuke]

I wonder what Coach K thinks about the A10 now? The A10 is 2-1 today after Saint Louis just knocked off NCSU, the team Coach K said deserved in the tournament. It doesn't look like the ACC is much of a meat grinder to me, or maybe Saint Louis really is just pretty good.

One thing is for certain, the A10 can ball and Coach K wasn't aware of it...

[NashvilleDevil]

I wonder what Coach K thinks about the A10 now? The A10 is 2-1 today after Saint Louis just knocked off NCSU, the team Coach K said deserved in the tournament. It doesn't look like the ACC is much of a meat grinder to me, or maybe Saint Louis really is just pretty good.

One thing is for certain, the A10 can ball and Coach K wasn't aware of it...

There's still a minute left

[ice-9]

I wonder what Coach K thinks about the A10 now? The A10 is 2-1 today after Saint Louis just knocked off NCSU, the team Coach K said deserved in the tournament. It doesn't look like the ACC is much of a meat grinder to me, or maybe Saint Louis really is just pretty good.

One thing is for certain, the A10 can ball and Coach K wasn't aware of it...

Are you being sarcastic? The weakest at large ACC team nearly beat the best A-10 team.

I mean NC State is the LAST team in the field.

[NashvilleDevil]

I wonder what Coach K thinks about the A10 now? The A10 is 2-1 today after Saint Louis just knocked off NCSU, the team Coach K said deserved in the tournament. It doesn't look like the ACC is much of a meat grinder to me, or maybe Saint Louis really is just pretty good.

One thing is for certain, the A10 can ball and Coach K wasn't aware of it...

One point game with Warren to the line with a chance to tie.

[_Gary]

Are you being sarcastic? The weakest at large ACC team nearly beat the best A-10 team.

I mean NC State is the LAST team in the field.

And the game isn't even over yet.

[NashvilleDevil]

Are you being sarcastic? The weakest at large ACC team nearly beat the best A-10 team.

I mean NC State is the LAST team in the field.

Game is not over yet.

[CameronDuke]

Are you being sarcastic? The weakest at large ACC team nearly beat the best A-10 team.

I mean NC State is the LAST team in the field.

The best A10 team during the regular season, but St. Joe's won the A10 tournament. Looks like I spoke too soon, NCSU is now down 1. This game has been crazy!

But I am serious. Coach K slept on the A10. Dayton already knocked off Ohio State today...

The A10 can play some basketball...

[NashvilleDevil]

The best A10 team during the regular season, but St. Joe's won the A10 tournament. Looks like I spoke too soon, NCSU is now down 1. This game has been crazy!

But I am serious. Coach K slept on the A10. Dayton already knocked off Ohio State today...

The A10 can play some basketball...

Or Dayton had something to prove against the big state school that refuses to play them.

[ice-9]

Game is not over yet.

LOL!! I'm watching the game from a website (not the official NCAA one as I'm international) and I thought my stream was delayed, and that game was already over in real-time as per CameronDuke's post.

[CameronDuke]

I guess I don't understand Coach K being critical of the A10 when Saint Louis from the A10 is about to knock FG an ACC team head to head...

[_Gary]

The best A10 team during the regular season, but St. Joe's won the A10 tournament. Looks like I spoke too soon, NCSU is now down 1. This game has been crazy!

But I am serious. Coach K slept on the A10. Dayton already knocked off Ohio State today...

The A10 can play some basketball...

Not to take anything away from St Louis should the hold on and win, but this was all about NC State completely choking the game away. So I'm not thinking this is a strong argument for the A10.

[CameronDuke]

And there goes TJ Warren. He fouled out. NCSU better hope this one doesn't go to double OT!

[NashvilleDevil]

And there goes TJ Warren. He fouled out. NCSU better hope this one doesn't go to double OT!

I thought the game was over?

[CameronDuke]

Not to take anything away from St Louis should the hold on and win, but this was all about NC State completely choking the game away. So I'm not thinking this is a strong argument for the A10.

Hmm and NC State choking is a great argument for the ACC?

[CameronDuke]

I thought the game was over?

Game is over. Saint Louis overcomes 16 point deficit and beats NCSU. A10 beats the ACC. Coach K's comments just got discounted in my mind.

[_Gary]

Hmm and NC State choking is a great argument for the ACC?

I'm not saying that. But you are arguing that St Louis winning this game is some big reason Coach K was wrong. I simply disagree because they had ZERO business winning this game after being down so much.

[NashvilleDevil]

Game is over. Saint Louis overcomes 16 point deficit and beats NCSU. A10 beats the ACC. Coach K's comments just got discounted in my mind.

Because of what? Is the A10 so great that they forced NC State to miss 15 free throws in the 2nd half?

[_Gary]

because their best team beat our 6th (or 7th, or 8th, depending on how you count) best? Barely? Because of a colossal choke job? Ok.

b-i-n-g-o.

[ice-9]

Hmm and NC State choking is a great argument for the ACC?

The A-10's best team nearly losing to the ACC's weakest NCAA team on a neutral floor is what's a great argument.

[pfrduke]

Game is over. Saint Louis overcomes 16 point deficit and beats NCSU. A10 beats the ACC. Coach K's comments just got discounted in my mind.

Because their best team beat our 6th (or 7th, or 8th, depending on how you count) best? Barely? Because of a colossal choke job? Ok.

[77devil]

I'm not saying that. But you are arguing that St Louis winning this game is some big reason Coach K was wrong. I simply disagree because they had ZERO business winning this game after being down so much.

What counts is the W. Coach K's comments are bulletin board material in every A-10 locker room. Next year it would probably be smarter to keep his thoughts to himself.

[CameronDuke]

Perhaps I'm just confused who Coach K was referring to when he said bring an A10 team to the ACC "meat grinder" and see how they do. Was NCSU a meat grinder team he was referring to? Perhaps he meant Wake? VT? GT? BC? All of the above?

The man is the best coach of all time but he was way off in his analysis of the strength of the A10. The A10 can ball...

[buddy]

State just played their 5th game in 8 days. They simply ran out of gas. St. Louis was playing their second game in the same time period. State may have choked, but fatigue certainly had something to do with it.

[CameronDuke]

And anyone that says NCSU lost that game and that STL didn't win it is idiotic. A team that posters are admittedly agreeing blew a game by missing free throws doesn't exactly look like a meat grinding team to me. That's the weakest argument I have honestly ever heard.

[_Gary]

What counts is the W. Coach K's comments are bulletin board material in every A-10 locker room. Next year it would probably be smarter to keep his thoughts to himself.

Are you serious? You really think Coach K was that off for saying, in a nice way, that the ACC is a better conference than the A10? Okay. Whatever.

[CameronDuke]

State just played their 5th game in 8 days. They simply ran out of gas. St. Louis was playing their second game in the same time period. State may have choked, but fatigue certainly had something to do with it.

I guess that ACC regular season meat grinder schedule didn't prepare them enough to be able to handle fatigue today...

[Bluedog]

Perhaps I'm just confused who Coach K was referring to when he said bring an A10 team to the ACC "meat grinder" and see how they do. Was NCSU a meat grinder team he was referring to? Perhaps he meant Wake? VT? GT? BC? All of the above?

The man is the best coach of all time but he was way off in his analysis of the strength of the A10. The A10 can ball...

He wasn't saying that there aren't any good teams in the A10. Just that he was surprised they were projected to get six teams in the field when the ACC was projected to get 5. I think the game that just occurred supports that point with A10's best team barely beating ACC's seventh best team...

[_Gary]

Perhaps I'm just confused who Coach K was referring to when he said bring an A10 team to the ACC "meat grinder" and see how they do. Was NCSU a meat grinder team he was referring to?

Do you not see how insane that statement is? St Louis was LUCKY (as all get out) to beat the 6th best team in the ACC tonight! The premier team in the A10 was just given an absolute gift by the worst of the ACC teams in the Tournament this year. How again does what Coach K said NOT make total sense? This game just proved what he said!

[CameronDuke]

Do you not see how insane that statement is? St Louis was LUCKY (as all get out) to beat the 6th best team in the ACC tonight! The premier team in the A10 was just given an absolute gift by the worst of the ACC teams in the Tournament this year. How again does what Coach K said NOT make total sense? This game just proved what he said!

It doesn't make sense because you fail to see the point that a team self destructing and blowing the game in and of itself shows how bad that team is. A high school team wins that game up 16 points late in the second half. NCSU isn't very good and showed it tonight.

[pfrduke]

K did not say that every ACC team was better than every A-10 team. He suggested that if all 6 A-10 teams that were set to get bids played the ACC schedule, they probably wouldn't all get bids. I agree with him 100% and nothing I saw today changes that.

[NashvilleDevil]

Perhaps I'm just confused who Coach K was referring to when he said bring an A10 team to the ACC "meat grinder" and see how they do. Was NCSU a meat grinder team he was referring to? Perhaps he meant Wake? VT? GT? BC? All of the above?

The man is the best coach of all time but he was way off in his analysis of the strength of the A10. The A10 can ball...

How can they ball exactly? Does the A10 have the greatest free throw defense in the country? Because what I saw was State not making any free throws down the stretch and that cost them the game. As for Dayton, anyone who grew up in Ohio will tell you that every school in the state wants to play Ohio State every year and it never happens. UD finally got their shot and won, at the last second. If it was any other A10 team playing Ohio State they would have lost.

[ice-9]

Perhaps I'm just confused who Coach K was referring to when he said bring an A10 team to the ACC "meat grinder" and see how they do. Was NCSU a meat grinder team he was referring to? Perhaps he meant Wake? VT? GT? BC? All of the above?

The man is the best coach of all time but he was way off in his analysis of the strength of the A10. The A10 can ball...

Your statement would have more punch to it if SLU destroyed NC State, as they theoretically should have.

As it was, the game went to OT and probably only because the Pack were exhausted from playing FIVE GAMES IN SEVEN DAYS. I mean, that's insane, much worse than we went through.

So yeah, I'd say this game supports K's statement more than it supports yours.

But I suspect your mind is made up on this matter.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

What a horrible job of late game coaching from Gottlieb.

I've never really paid much attention to him but I was watching with interest to see how he would lead the Pack during that last ten minutes as they bricked FT's...I guess I'm gonna be waiting a long time because I didn't see any adjustments from him to lead a team that seemed shell shocked from the press.

[CameronDuke]

How can they ball exactly? Does the A10 have the greatest free throw defense in the country? Because what I saw was State not making any free throws down the stretch and that cost them the game. As for Dayton, anyone who grew up in Ohio will tell you that every school in the state wants to play Ohio State every year and it never happens. UD finally got their shot and won, at the last second. If it was any other A10 team playing Ohio State they would have lost.

They can ball because Dayton knocked off Ohio State and STL knocked off NCSU. That's two wins over BCS conferences. UMASS will play Tennessee tomorrow and show what they're all about. VCU is one of the best defensive teams in the country. I think they have a guy that leads the NCAA in steals. After Duke, UVa, Pitt, Cuse, and UNC, the ACC falls off fast.

[CameronDuke]

Your statement would have more punch to it if SLU destroyed NC State, as they theoretically should have.

As it was, the game went to OT and probably only because the Pack were exhausted from playing FIVE GAMES IN SEVEN DAYS. I mean, that's insane, much worse than we went through.

So yeah, I'd say this game supports K's statement more than it supports yours.

But I suspect your mind is made up on this matter.

You have a legitimate point but I primarily care about wins and losses and the ACC just lost head to head against the A10.

[pfrduke]

You have a legitimate point but I primarily care about wins and losses and the ACC just lost head to head against the A10.

So, essentially, if Tyler Lewis's shot at the end of regulation goes in you think K's comment is valid and because it doesn't it's invalid?

[CameronDuke]

So, essentially, if Tyler Lewis's shot at the end of regulation goes in you think K's comment is valid and because it doesn't it's invalid?

I'd be a hell of a lot more inclined to accept what he said at face value, yes. But it didn't. If I had wheels, I'd be a wagon...

[CameronDuke]

I can guarantee there would be a poster or multiple posters on here claiming Coach K was correct and accurate in his comments had NCSU found a way to hang on vs STL. Sometimes, the boards here are full of homers...

[jipops]

I'd be a hell of a lot more inclined to accept what he said at face value, yes. But it didn't. If I had wheels, I'd be a wagon...

There is a long way to go before this argument is settled. I do think it interesting that a 5 seed beating a 12 seed in OT has more of an upset feel to it.

[_Gary]

Sometimes, the boards here are full of homers...

Since this is a Duke board, I'm guessing that's not abnormal. Sheesh!

[pfrduke]

I can guarantee there would be a poster or multiple posters on here claiming Coach K was correct and accurate in his comments had NCSU found a way to hang on vs STL. Sometimes, the boards here are full of homers...

We're all saying K was correct and accurate based on NC State's loss (the manner in which the game was played, more specifically). I'm not sure why you'd be surprised at us saying it if the Pack didn't gack the game away.

[devil84]

Remember that NCSU already had one 2014 NCAA Tournament win prior to taking the floor tonight. That's one more win for the ACC.

Not that it ameliorates the choke job at the FT line tonight for State, but that A-10 team BARELY squeaked by that ACC team that played its 5th game in 7 days, and second game in the NCAA Tournament.

[pfrduke]

Look, K's comment is not without criticism. The easiest way to criticize it would be to point out that the 6 A-10 tournament teams went a collective 6-2 against the ACC, suggesting that they could handle an ACC schedule ok. But tonight's St. Louis game is not Exhibit A as to why K's comment was wrong. I'm not sure if it's Exhibit Z. If I was the A-10 (which, sure, I'm not) I would be pretty sheepish in touting that victory as evidence of our conference might.

[CameronDuke]

Since this is a Duke board, I'm guessing that's not abnormal. Sheesh!

I understand that but it seems sometimes whenever empirical evidence specifically proves Coach K wrong, and posters state that, there's usually a homer or two that can't admit he was wrong and discount the evidence that people bring to the table.

[pfrduke]

I understand that but it seems sometimes whenever empirical evidence specifically proves Coach K wrong, and posters state that, there's usually a homer or two that can't admit he was wrong and discount the evidence that people bring to the table.

St. Louis (the A-10's best team) barely beating NC State (far from the ACC's best team) is not empirical evidence specifically proving Coach K wrong. It more tends to prove that he was right. That's where our fundamental disagreement is. No one is arguing with you about what the evidence is (it's impossible to - facts are facts). We're disagreeing with you about what the evidence means.

Let me ask this of you another way - if you were going to argue that the ACC is a superior conference to the America East, would you use our win over Vermont as an example? I sure wouldn't.

[CameronDuke]

Look, Duke is my team and I love Coach K. But he put his foot in his mouth with the A10 comments. What good does knocking someone else's conference really do? Respect their conference and they'll respect yours. It's self serving, smoke filled, coffeehouse crap to put down another conference.

[_Gary]

St. Louis (the A-10's best team) barely beating NC State (far from the ACC's best team) is not empirical evidence specifically proving Coach K wrong. It more tends to prove that he was right. That's where our fundamental disagreement is. No one is arguing with you about what the evidence is (it's impossible to - facts are facts). We're disagreeing with you about what the evidence means.

Let me ask this of you another way - if you were going to argue that the ACC is a superior conference to the America East, would you use our win over Vermont as an example? I sure wouldn't.

Again, thank you. Said perfectly (and better than I could).

[CameronDuke]

St. Louis (the A-10's best team) barely beating NC State (far from the ACC's best team) is not empirical evidence specifically proving Coach K wrong. It more tends to prove that he was right. That's where our fundamental disagreement is. No one is arguing with you about what the evidence is (it's impossible to - facts are facts). We're disagreeing with you about what the evidence means.

Let me ask this of you another way - if you were going to argue that the ACC is a superior conference to the America East, would you use our win over Vermont as an example? I sure wouldn't.

In the dance, throw out who won regular season championships. It's conference vs conference regardless of seed and regular season performance.

You're not understanding my point either. If the ACC was such a meat grinder wouldn't the ACC's 6th best team be better than the top teams of the A10?

[FerryFor50]

We're all saying K was correct and accurate based on NC State's loss (the manner in which the game was played, more specifically). I'm not sure why you'd be surprised at us saying it if the Pack didn't gack the game away.

Exactly. K's point was not that all ACC teams could beat all A-10 teams. His point was that more ACC teams deserved to get in than A-10 teams. And when the 6th best team in the ACC comes that close to taking out the top team in the A-10, point validated.

In other news, St. Joe's (#4 in A-10) lost to UConn (#3 in AAC).
Dayton (#6 in A-10) beat OSU (#5 in Big 10).

A-10 is 2-1 in the tourny so far. ACC is 3-1.

[pfrduke]

In the dance, throw out who win regular season championships. It's conference vs conference regardless of seed and regular season performance.

You're not understanding my point either. If the ACC was such a meat grinder wouldn't the ACC's 6th best team be better than the top teams of the A10?

Not necessarily - but the ACC's 6th best team might be the equal of the A10's top team - it's hard to say that State wasn't essentially St. Louis's equal tonight.

[tbyers11]

And anyone that says NCSU lost that game and that STL didn't win it is idiotic. A team that posters are admittedly agreeing blew a game by missing free throws doesn't exactly look like a meat grinding team to me. That's the weakest argument I have honestly ever heard.

NCST totally lost that game. They were 8-20 on FTs in the last 4 minutes of the game. SLU had to make some plays to get in a position to send the game to OT, but if NCST had even made 60% of their FTs they would have won no matter what SLU did.

Also Coach K was referring to the bubble teams in the ACC vs the bubble teams in the A10. NCST, FSU, Clem, and MD all had similar resumes to St Joes (won autobid but would have probably gotten in anyway), Dayton and GW yet the A10 got all 3 of these teams in while the ACC got 1 of 4 and that one was a big surprise. Go back up thread to see all the stats in detail

[jipops]

I can guarantee there would be a poster or multiple posters on here claiming Coach K was correct and accurate in his comments had NCSU found a way to hang on vs STL. Sometimes, the boards here are full of homers...

The 2nd best A-10 team just beat the 6th best (at best) ACC team in OT. I'd say your argument is not supported based on this. It's not like St Louis had control of this game throughout.

[CameronDuke]

NCST totally lost that game. They were 8-20 on FTs in the last 4 minutes of the game. SLU had to make some plays to get in a position to send the game to OT, but if NCST had even made 60% of their FTs they would have won no matter what SLU did.

Also Coach K was referring to the bubble teams in the ACC vs the bubble teams in the A10. NCST, FSU, Clem, and MD all had similar resumes to St Joes, Dayton and GW yet the A10 got all 3 of these teams in while the ACC got 1 of 4 and that one was a big surprise. Go back up thread to see all the stats in detail

How does NCSU shooting 8-20 from the line in the last 4 minutes show any kind of semblance that the ACC is a meat grinder? My nephew's pee wee team could hit better than 8-20...and the local 8 and under YMCA league is NOT a meat grinder league!

[jipops]

It doesn't make sense because you fail to see the point that a team self destructing and blowing the game in and of itself shows how bad that team is. A high school team wins that game up 16 points late in the second half. NCSU isn't very good and showed it tonight.

No, they're not very good, yet they dominated this game for 35 minutes. I wonder how well St Louis would have fared if they had to have played Tuesday. Put St Louis in the ACC would they still have avoided this?

[tbyers11]

How does NCSU shooting 8-20 from the line in the last 4 minutes show any kind of semblance that the ACC is a meat grinder? My nephew's pee wee team could hit better than 8-20...

I said nothing about your nonsensical meat grinder assertion. Going 8-20 from the FT line says that NCST lost that game and that SLU was very lucky to win it. FT shooting in one 3 minute segment of a game has nothing to with how difficult an entire conference schedule is or isn't. Coach K was making a statement about the overall strength of the 2 conferences and how it should reflect the committee selections of bubble teams. How the best or 2nd best team (VCU is probably the best) from the A10 got extremely lucky to beat the 7th place team tonight doesn't disprove Coach K's comments about the overall season at all

[FerryFor50]

NCST totally lost that game. They were 8-20 on FTs in the last 4 minutes of the game. SLU had to make some plays to get in a position to send the game to OT, but if NCST had even made 60% of their FTs they would have won no matter what SLU did.

Also Coach K was referring to the bubble teams in the ACC vs the bubble teams in the A10. NCST, FSU, Clem, and MD all had similar resumes to St Joes (won autobid but would have probably gotten in anyway), Dayton and GW yet the A10 got all 3 of these teams in while the ACC got 1 of 4 and that one was a big surprise. Go back up thread to see all the stats in detail

Only semi-agree here.

SLU was also awful from the line. But they were putting State there on purpose.

What I didn't get was why Gottfried left Warren in to foul out when they were trying to put SLU on the line. Why not sub offense/defense? They had absolutely no one to go to at the end. However, Lee got fouled on his drive. Neither of the SLU defenders on him had their arms vertical.

I'm also curious why teams that start to press to get back into games get so much benefit of the doubt on contact. Several NCSU turnovers on the press were results of being bumped/fouled with no call.

[tbyers11]

Only semi-agree here.

SLU was also awful from the line. But they were putting State there on purpose.



What do you only semi-agree with? SLU was putting them there on purpose (and it ended up being a great strategy) but they had to get lucky to have NC State shoot so horribly. If NC State even shoot poorly instead of horribly it probably never even becomes a one possession game.

Totally agree with not having Warren on the bench during the must foul. Maybe since they didn't have a TO he was afraid if they got a steal he wouldn't be able to get Warren in the game. At least they should have put him on a big guy at the other end of the court and let someone else foul

[FerryFor50]

What do you only semi-agree with? SLU was putting them there on purpose (and it ended up being a great strategy) but they had to get lucky to have NC State shoot so horribly. If NC State even shoot poorly instead of horribly it probably never even becomes a one possession game.

Totally agree with not having Warren on the bench during the must foul. Maybe since they didn't have a TO he was afraid if they got a steal he wouldn't be able to get Warren in the game. At least they should have put him on a big guy at the other end of the court and let someone else foul

Semi agree about FT shooting being why NCSU lost. You could make the same argument that State led by so much because of how bad SLU had been from the line. Both teams were awful, so it kind of canceled out. The problem was State's defense at the end of the game.

[tbyers11]

Semi agree about FT shooting being why NCSU lost. You could make the same argument that State led by so much because of how bad SLU had been from the line. Both teams were awful, so it kind of canceled out. The problem was State's defense at the end of the game.

That's a valid point about why NCST had such a huge lead to start with. Also agree that their D late was awful and did contribute heavily to the loss. However, my main point is that even with that horrible late game D they still could have won if they hit only 60% of their FT in the last 4 minutes of the game

[brevity]

What a horrible job of late game coaching from Gottlieb.

Coach Gottlieb would be alarmingly unprepared. (I think you mean Coach Gottfried.)

SLU had a better season than NCSU, but the matchup turned out to be fairly even. I'm not sure how so many people can draw any grand conclusions about their respective conferences. I'll say one more thing: Coach K's earlier comments about NC State -- and the exaggerated belief held by some that he successfully lobbied for their inclusion -- should also factor into this conversation. The fact remains that he made separate statements concerning both of the teams in this game.

[FerryFor50]

That's a valid point about why NCST had such a huge lead to start with. Also agree that their D late was awful and did contribute heavily to the loss. However, my main point is that even with that horrible late game D they still could have won if they hit only 60% of their FT in the last 4 minutes of the game

Really, all they needed was for TJ Warren to hit his normal rate of FTs.

And to play some D.

I was pretty shocked by how quick the whistles were on some of the fouls SLU committed when they went to "Hack a Pack." Like, Vandenburg would get a board and he'd get hit like every player who has gotten a rebound in history has gotten hit. Instant whistle.

But on the press, no whistle unless the guy got tackled.

[jipops]

Really, all they needed was for TJ Warren to hit his normal rate of FTs.

And to play some D.

I was pretty shocked by how quick the whistles were on some of the fouls SLU committed when they went to "Hack a Pack." Like, Vandenburg would get a board and he'd get hit like every player who has gotten a rebound in history has gotten hit. Instant whistle.

But on the press, no whistle unless the guy got tackled.

State was also scoring from every single area of the floor. For 35 minutes this was a clinic on offense.

[Wander]

Coach K was just doing the standard silly coachspeak sticking up for his conference thing. If Duke was in the A-10, he'd have been talking up the A-10 bubble teams. I'm not complaining, most coaches do this, but there's no reason to take it too seriously. Nothing controversial about any of the A-10 teams getting bids.

[Des Esseintes]

They can ball because Dayton knocked off Ohio State and STL knocked off NCSU. That's two wins over BCS conferences. UMASS will play Tennessee tomorrow and show what they're all about. VCU is one of the best defensive teams in the country. I think they have a guy that leads the NCAA in steals. After Duke, UVa, Pitt, Cuse, and UNC, the ACC falls off fast.

This thread is witnessing a textbook performance in trolldom. I love how trolls always pick the most generic handles imaginable. DevilBlueChampionWinner was already taken, I guess.

[FerryFor50]

This thread is witnessing a textbook performance in trolldom. I love how trolls always pick the most generic handles imaginable. DevilBlueChampionWinner was already taken, I guess.

Well he/she has been a member since 2009. And posted 205 times... likely legit. Just doesn't have a strong argument.

[tbyers11]

This thread is witnessing a textbook performance in trolldom. I love how trolls always pick the most generic handles imaginable. DevilBlueChampionWinner was already taken, I guess.

Generally agree with you on trolling but as Ferryfor50 pointed out this would have to been one serious deep cover troll ;)

[Atlanta Duke]

Coach K was just doing the standard silly coachspeak sticking up for his conference thing. If Duke was in the A-10, he'd have been talking up the A-10 bubble teams. I'm not complaining, most coaches do this, but there's no reason to take it too seriously. Nothing controversial about any of the A-10 teams getting bids.

Agreed K was just performing his role as advocate for the ACC on selection weekend. With regard to other senior coaches taking on the role, it certainly was not going to be Coach Boeheim and one can only imagine what sort of response would have been provided by Roy if the issue of how many ACC teams should receive bids had been raised with him after the Pitt loss.

Plus given how pleased I was that Dayton took out Ohio State I am not going to criticize some of the double digit seeds going to the A-10

[Atlanta Duke]

Generally agree with you on trolling but as Ferryfor50 pointed out this would have to been one serious deep cover troll ;)

A sleeper troll - how cunning:)

[Des Esseintes]

Well he/she has been a member since 2009. And posted 205 times... likely legit. Just doesn't have a strong argument.


Generally agree with you on trolling but as Ferryfor50 pointed out this would have to been one serious deep cover troll ;)

Some of them really commit to their project. It's inexplicable to me, but these guys exist.

[sporthenry]

The NC State/St. Louis game will work for either side. St. Louis won and the A-10 is 2-1. Yet, the 6th/7th best team just took the best A-10 team to the brink, and had them dead to rights.

Now all this seems to ignore that is a single elimination tournament where each game doesn't add much. I fall on the side of NC State just about beating St. Louis proves K's point. I guess it remains to be seen if GW can beat UVA, which we might get to see. But ultimately, the ACC is stronger than the A-10 and most computer models seem to back that up.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Some of them really commit to their project. It's inexplicable to me, but these guys exist.
Quick... Someone check to see if he owns a dark suit and true blue tie from Walmart!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Coach Gottlieb would be alarmingly unprepared. (I think you mean Coach Gottfried.)

SLU had a better season than NCSU, but the matchup turned out to be fairly even. I'm not sure how so many people can draw any grand conclusions about their respective conferences. I'll say one more thing: Coach K's earlier comments about NC State -- and the exaggerated belief held by some that he successfully lobbied for their inclusion -- should also factor into this conversation. The fact remains that he made separate statements concerning both of the teams in this game.

Thanks, long day.

It struck me that every time they missed a Ft or when they were wilting under the press, the camera would turn to Gottfried and he would be just standing there. He wasn't encouraging them, he didn't implore them to spread the floor, go to the ball....whatever. He just stood there with a lost look on his face.

No wonder his team played without a clue in the late game, he was out of touch in that one.

[sporthenry]

After thinking about it a bit more, yes, we are relying on single games to do this, but aren't we doing that all year round? We pretty much rely on non-conference schedules that occur in November/December to tell us which conference is strongest.

I think I read that the A-10 was 8-8 against the ACC but most of those games were their stronger teams against our weaker teams. Only one that pitted two tournament teams was UVA/VCU, of which I don't put a ton of value b/c UVA is a completely different team.

I also think something that helps the A-10 is that they seem to play better earlier in the year which I surmise is do to experience.

And KenPom has the ACC drastically ahead of the A-10 now. Now we have more non-conference data points that are much more recent and when people argue about the strength of a conference, they are talking about now, not in November/December.

Regardless, I think a poster on here has been pretty adamant about adding non-conference games later in the year and I think that would be a great idea. For one, the regular season conference is devalued so it isn't like you are fighting for a title. You are fighting for conference tournament positioning which matters but not a ton. Beyond that, if the non-conference game is done right, meaning against good teams, that game will be as valuable to some team's resumes as a conference game against a top team in the ACC.

[Kfanarmy]

I wonder what Coach K thinks about the A10 now? The A10 is 2-1 today after Saint Louis just knocked off NCSU, the team Coach K said deserved in the tournament. It doesn't look like the ACC is much of a meat grinder to me, or maybe Saint Louis really is just pretty good.

One thing is for certain, the A10 can ball and Coach K wasn't aware of it... I watched that game. One of the ugliest games I've ever seen. SLU didn't deserve to win that game. I like a good comeback, but SLU made that such an ugly game at the end, I hope they get beat by 50 on Saturday.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Somewhere Shaka is laughing...

[duke96]

Seriously. And now they will win and he will laugh harder.

[FerryFor50]

Somewhere Shaka is laughing...

He should stop laughing and start coaching harder. SFA just made an improbable comeback to force OT on a 4 point play.

[pfrduke]

He should stop laughing and start coaching harder. SFA just made an improbable comeback to force OT on a 4 point play.

That was a ridiculous play (maybe a dive on the foul call, too, but who cares)

[_Gary]

Somewhere Shaka is laughing...

Not right now he's not. But I am.

[NashvilleDevil]

Seriously. And now they will win and he will laugh harder.

I'm laughing my behind off right now.

[duke96]

I'm laughing my behind off right now.

hehe we all are. go SF Austin!!

[_Gary]

Ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!!!!

[NashvilleDevil]

Now I'm really laughing my behind off.

[duke96]

As another famous Chaka (phonetically, at least) once said, "I feel for you"

[FerryFor50]

Over/under of Shaka jumping ship after this loss to coach Wake?

[arnie]

Now I'm really laughing my behind off.
Of course Shaka lost a very close game to a higher seed than the team that beat Duke going away.

[Here is a Turtle]

That ranks pretty high up there as craziest way to lose a game. VCU must be sick. Reminded me of that Larry johnson play against Indiana some years back.

[_Gary]

As another famous Chaka (phonetically, at least) once said, "I feel for you"

Was that in "Land of the Lost"? I loved that show growing up. :p

[NashvilleDevil]

Of course Shaka lost a very close game to a higher seed than the team that beat Duke going away.

After the loss today let us enjoy this. Don't be a wet blanket.

[duke96]

After the loss today let us enjoy this. Don't be a wet blanket.

Christmas and puppies and all ;)

[FerryFor50]

After the loss today let us enjoy this. Don't be a wet blanket.

He obviously doesn't understand how seeding works. If you're a 5 seed, you play a higher seed. Maybe if VCU played in a real conference they could have been the 3 seed to lose to Mercer.

[jipops]

Maybe both conferences stink.

[nyesq83]

Maybe both conferences stink.

Yeah yeah, this!

[pamtelp]

Coach is eating crow tonight. 0-2 vs A10. Turns out both conferences kind of stink.

Rough weekend for coach K

[MCFinARL]

Coach is eating crow tonight. 0-2 vs A10. Turns out both conferences kind of stink.

Rough weekend for coach K

But since he and Boeheim are pals, maybe they can commiserate over a beer. :D

[NashvilleDevil]

Coach is eating crow tonight. 0-2 vs A10. Turns out both conferences kind of stink.

Rough weekend for coach K

I doubt his given it much thought.

[jipops]

Coach is eating crow tonight. 0-2 vs A10. Turns out both conferences kind of stink.

Rough weekend for coach K

The State loss actually did more to prove K's argument.

Acc still has 2 teams in. A10 has one. Not much crow to eat.

[FerryFor50]

The State loss actually did more to prove K's argument.

Acc still has 2 teams in. A10 has one. Not much crow to eat.

Plus, if cooked right, crow is delicious.

[pamtelp]

Acc might still have 2 (at this point...we haven't played 2 rounds like the a10...let's check back in tomorrow) but the a10 showed they might very well have stood up to the meat grinder

[uh_no]

Plus, if cooked right, crow is delicious.

boil 'em mash 'em stick 'em in a stew

[NashvilleDevil]

Acc might still have 2 (at this point...we haven't played 2 rounds like the a10...let's check back in tomorrow) but the a10 showed they might very well have stood up to the meat grinder

One and done tournament is not indicative of the grind of the regular season.

[pamtelp]

Perhaps. So coach K might very well have been right about the a10. Just looks like he was wrong about the acc.

I am the biggest acc fan out there, but it is getting old watching the bulk of the league struggle in the tournament year after year

[uh_no]

Perhaps. So coach K might very well have been right about the a10. Just looks like he was wrong about the acc.

I am the biggest acc fan out there, but it is getting old watching the bulk of the league struggle in the tournament year after year

to be fair, the lack of consistent duke success in the tournament over the past 8 years is a major contributor to that.....

[pamtelp]

True.

Top seeds are 21-2 this far. The two losses...Duke and Syracuse

[jipops]

True.

Top seeds are 21-2 this far. The two losses...Duke and Syracuse

Two teams who were playing some of their worst basketball late in the season. Syracuse on offense, Duke on defense.

[pamtelp]

Rationalize however you like. But the teams were given the seeds based on their performance. And Duke wasn't playing their worst...they had played that way much of the season (had just played in the tournament championship game by the way).

[uh_no]

Rationalize however you like. But the teams were given the seeds based on their performance. And Duke wasn't playing their worst...they had played that way much of the season (had just played in the tournament championship game by the way).

there were questions in january after we had a couple better defensive performances after the 2 losses, about whether it was a temporary improvement, or would last long term. well, I think we can pretty definitively answer that question. the questions were there in november, they were there in january, and still here in march. really a shame since the offense was sublime at times.

[flyingdutchdevil]

boil 'em mash 'em stick 'em in a stew

Guys. This is a ridiculous argument. Everyone knows that garlic and chili is the only way to eat crow. Get it together!

[Cameron]

there were questions in january after we had a couple better defensive performances after the 2 losses, about whether it was a temporary improvement, or would last long term. well, I think we can pretty definitively answer that question. the questions were there in november, they were there in january, and still here in march. really a shame since the offense was sublime at times.

To be fair, while some here questioned the long-term prospects of this Duke team back in early January, notably after the performance at Clemson -- one of multiple, complete collapses on the season -- there were a lot of people here who just wouldn't have it. They said we had lost to teams in that fashion before (Georgetown in 2010) and gone on to win championships.

The reality is that, because of our 1990 Enver Nuggets style defense, we were never a championship contending team.

[Atlanta Duke]

The Mercer coach chimes in on whether criteria used in the selection process are skewed in favor of power conference or smaller conference schools

Coach Bob Hoffman of 14th-seeded Mercer, which knocked off third-seeded Duke on Friday, said he believed the Rating Percentage Index, a ranking system based on factors such as strength of schedule, gave too much weight to lesser teams in power conferences and not enough weight to strong teams in smaller conferences.

“You don’t want to get me started,” Hoffman said Saturday. “I would tell you what I think about the R.P.I. I don’t know how you decide, but to me, that’s a flawed instrument.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/sports/ncaabasketball/mens-basketball-notebook.html?ref=ncaabasketball

[weezie]

See ya' Mercer!
Enjoy the bus ride home.

[CameronDuke]

And with Iowa state beating unc the ACC's performance in the NCAA Tournament this year is officially GARBAGE. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if uva gets past Memphis tonight the A10 and ACC will have the same number of teams in the Sweet 16, no? And the ACC team would be a 1 seed and a league champion so it's more expected. Doesn't help the argument too much in my mind that the ACC is tougher than the A10.

[ice-9]

Guys. This is a ridiculous argument. Everyone knows that garlic and chili is the only way to eat crow. Get it together!

I like my crow as bitter as possible.

[Papa John]

And with Iowa state beating unc the ACC's performance in the NCAA Tournament this year is officially GARBAGE. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if uva gets past Memphis tonight the A10 and ACC will have the same number of teams in the Sweet 16, no? And the ACC team would be a 1 seed and a league champion so it's more expected. Doesn't help the argument too much in my mind that the ACC is tougher than the A10.

Perhaps CBS should ask Coach Smart and Coach K into the studio to debate the topic, seeing as both coaches will be free this weekend? Somehow, I doubt either will be too interested in carrying on this conversation...

[77devil]

Perhaps CBS should ask Coach Smart and Coach K into the studio to debate the topic, seeing as both coaches will be free this weekend? Somehow, I doubt either will be too interested in carrying on this conversation...

And the SEC which was roundly derided in pundit land is 7-0. That's why it's called March Madness.

[flyingdutchdevil]

And the SEC which was roundly derided in pundit land is 7-0. That's why it's called March Madness.

This, to me, is the most surprising stat of the tournament. Amazing that the ACC, Big 12, and A-10 got absolutely destroyed in the tournament. But the SEC? A conference that a good and experienced (but not as talented) Florida team ran through with ease, a conference with 3 teams in the Kenpom top 40, a conference that has historically under-performed in basketball? Crazy...

I guess if Duke wins 10 games in football and plays in a competitive, nationally televised bowl game, the Sports Gods have to even the playing field with the SEC being good at basketball.

[jv001]

This, to me, is the most surprising stat of the tournament. Amazing that the ACC, Big 12, and A-10 got absolutely destroyed in the tournament. But the SEC? A conference that a good and experienced (but not as talented) Florida team ran through with ease, a conference with 3 teams in the Kenpom top 40, a conference that has historically under-performed in basketball? Crazy...

I guess if Duke wins 10 games in football and plays in a competitive, nationally televised bowl game, the Sports Gods have to even the playing field with the SEC being good at basketball.

That's it. We're a football school. GoCut and GoDuke!