NCAAT East/New York regional discussion (UVa/Sparty, Iowa State/Uconn)

[hurleyfor3]

Discuss the East region here. Regional will be at 34th and 8th.

[hurleyfor3]

UVa is the #1 seed and is the weakest #1. Regional champ plays the South champ.

[FerryFor50]

Weakest #1 gets a pretty weak bracket.

[75Crazie]

Weakest #1 gets a pretty weak bracket.
Disagree. Both Iowa State and Michigan State are valid #2 caliber teams ... more so than Villanova. Carolina gets a rude awakening in the second round, methinks.

[Dukehky]

I think that if anything, this is a relatively easy bracket for Michigan State. Virginia is really good, but I don't think they can beat Michigan State.

[CDu]

Yeah, I like MSU a lot in this bracket. And Iowa State is no joke either. UVa got the weakest #2, but they got few favors outside of that.

[FerryFor50]

Yeah, I like MSU a lot in this bracket. And Iowa State is no joke either. UVa got the weakest #2, but they got few favors outside of that.

I like MSU, too. But UVA wouldn't have to play them until the Sweet 16. That's assuming MSU gets there. They'd be no lock to get past Cincy. And Iowa St is no lock to get to the Elite 8.

I'd rather have been in UVA's bracket, but can't complain too much about Duke's overall draw.

[gurufrisbee]

Along with the West, this is easily the weakest region. I like Iowa St here - only because I don't see them being challenged til the Elite Eight.

[NSDukeFan]

Yeah, I like MSU a lot in this bracket. And Iowa State is no joke either. UVa got the weakest #2, but they got few favors outside of that.

I agree. I would rather face Nova in the sweet sixteen than a healthy Michigan State.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

I'm getting nauseous just thinking about it but I can easily see a "UNC 2000" situation playing out here.

Oh, you remember... A mediocre UNC team gets placed in a weak bracket. A bunch of upsets early and all of a sudden, the Heels made the FF.

FWIW, I've got UNC in the Regional Final, finally losing to MSU for once.

[75Crazie]

Carolina will NOT get past Iowa State.

[jipops]

Carolina will NOT get past Iowa State.

Iowa State will not get past Central.

The heels have a nice path here. I think they could have a relatively easy waltz to the final 8.

[Atlanta Duke]

I think that if anything, this is a relatively easy bracket for Michigan State. Virginia is really good, but I don't think they can beat Michigan State.

Neither does Vegas

After watching Michigan State dismantle Michigan I thought Sparty would be a good bet at odds to win it all.

So do a lot of other folks - Michigan State is the #2 pick at 9-2 odds to win it all in Dallas. Florida at 4-1 is top pick with Duke at 15:1

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24488255/florida-tabbed-by-vegas-as-the-national-title-favorite

Cannot recall a #4 seed ever being a #2 choice to win the tournament.

[TexHawk]

Carolina will NOT get past Iowa State.

According to Kenpom, they are pretty evenly matched, if they were to play. ISU is a pretty good offensive team, that plays up-tempo, but struggles on defense. UNC is a pretty good defensive team, that has trouble scoring. Kane-Paige would be a great matchup, but Georges Niang is the guy to keep an eye on. If JMM can keep him out of the lane and a hand in his face on the perimeter, ISU will struggle.

====

Also, a point needs to be made here, considering both MSU and ISU are in the same region. I know we are talking about a what-have-you-done-for-me-in-the-last-20-minutes sport, but the love for these two and their conference tournament runs is getting out of hand a bit.

Michigan State, with their full complement of players, lost to NIT-bound Illinois two weeks ago... at home. They then lost to 6-seeded Ohio State last weekend. Fantastic Big10 tournament by them, no doubt, but every single ESPN analyst picked them to win the whole thing on their Selection Show last night.
Iowa State entered the Big12 tourney having lost 2 of 3, and their one win was over OSU at home in OT, and they needed a desperation three at the buzzer to get there. They then beat an Embiid-less KU team that they have extreme familiarity with (played 6 times in the last calendar year, they are 1-5 in those).

I am not saying they are overrated or anything like that, but they aren't perfect. It wouldn't surprise me at all if one or both don't make it to the 2nd weekend.

[Bluedog]

Can somebody explain to me why we didn't get assigned as the #3 in the East as the top #3 seed? I'm not sure what rule it would have broken...We were #9 on the seed list and thus the first 3 team to be slotted. The East had the "weakest" 1 and the "strongest" 2, so having the best 3 and second best 4 would be fine (fits in the acceptable range). Obviously, UNC would have to be moved. Just curious as to why we got the Midwest...Not sure what I would have preferred anyways. If we get there, MSG is obviously much more Duke-friendly than Indy with Louisville, UK, and/or UMich, but matchups may be better for us in the MW.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/16/2014-ncaa-tournament-official-seed-list/

[hurleyfor3]

There is no S-curve. You want S-curves, try the Blue Ridge Parkway.

[sporthenry]

Can somebody explain to me why we didn't get assigned as the #3 in the East as the top #3 seed? I'm not sure what rule it would have broken...We were #9 on the seed list and thus the first 3 team to be slotted. The East had the "weakest" 1 and the "strongest" 2, so having the best 3 and second best 4 would be fine (fits in the acceptable range). Obviously, UNC would have to be moved. Just curious as to why we got the Midwest...Not sure what I would have preferred anyways. If we get there, MSG is obviously much more Duke-friendly than Indy with Louisville, UK, and/or UMich, but matchups may be better for us in the MW.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/16/2014-ncaa-tournament-official-seed-list/

The first 4 teams from the same conference cannot be seeded in the same region if they are on the top 4 lines.

Duke and UVA are in the same conference.

[Bluedog]

There is no S-curve. You want S-curves, try the Blue Ridge Parkway.


The first 4 teams from the same conference cannot be seeded in the same region if they are on the top 4 lines.

Duke and UVA are in the same conference.

Ah, thank you sporthenry - that makes sense. I wasn't saying there was an S-curve, hurleyfor3. I am fully aware of it and have been for a while, don't worry! I was saying the "top 3" gets geographic preference, which for us would be the East. But since Uva was there, I guess we got moved to Indy. The reason I mentioned "bottom 1" and "top 2" is because a region CANNOT have the "top" 1, 2, 3, and 4 seeds. I forget the exact range of acceptability, but they want there to be some "evenness" and they add up the seed list rank to make sure they're within a certain number for the top 4 seeds in a region. With the East having the "worst" 1, having the top 2 and 3 is not a problem. But the rule of top 4 lines in a region cannot be from the same conference seems to be the reason Duke didn't get the East.

[Kedsy]

Michigan State, with their full complement of players, lost to NIT-bound Illinois two weeks ago... at home. They then lost to 6-seeded Ohio State last weekend. Fantastic Big10 tournament by them, no doubt, but every single ESPN analyst picked them to win the whole thing on their Selection Show last night.

Yeah, I don't quite get all the Michigan State love, either. I realize Payne missed four of their losses and Dawson missed five, but including the Big 12 tournament, the team's record since getting back to full strength is 4-2 (not only did Michigan State lose to Illinois at home, but also at Ohio State).

Pomeroy doesn't take injuries into account, but his ratings only give Michigan State an 8.2% chance of making the Final Four and a less than 50/50 shot of making the Sweet 16 (49.2%, to be precise). I suspect if they'd been full strength the numbers would look better, but I doubt they'd look so much better they'd make Michigan State look like Final Four favorites.

FWIW, Pomeroy's numbers only give Iowa State a 38.5% chance to make the Sweet 16.

[Troublemaker]

Yeah, I don't quite get all the Michigan State love, either. I realize Payne missed four of their losses and Dawson missed five, but including the Big 12 tournament, the team's record since getting back to full strength is 4-2 (not only did Michigan State lose to Illinois at home, but also at Ohio State).


True, but shouldn't we give an injured team some time to regain its chemistry after the injured players return? If those two losses came at the end of the 6-game set, it'd be worrisome, but it appears to me MSU got better and better over those 6 games, culminating in a Big Ten title.

I think however one felt about MSU pre-injuries is the way one should feel about them now. I thought they were a strong championship contender before the injuries, so I like them a lot now. Of course, making a run from a 4 seed position IS tough.

[CBecker]

Can't expect them to instantly flick the switch once their full complement of players were back. It's no surprising at all that they'd lose to a mediocre team or two whilst they get their groove back.

[SoCalDukeFan]

UVa got the 1 because Mich. lost.
Villanova certainly has it doubters.

Iowa State is a pretty good 3 and Sparty is certainly a strong 4.

UVa does have a shot.

Too bad that unc-ch got into this easy bracket. Hopefully they go down early.

I would have preferred Mich here as the 2 and Villanova in the Mid West.

SoCal

[superdave]

I really wish Espn would have Dino Gaudio interview the man who fired him, Selection Committee Chair Ron Wellman. That would have been entertaining.

[superdave]

Roy Williams YouTube video, posted without political comment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4qhnHlOqGE

[theAlaskanBear]

Harvard is leading Cincinnati but it is close. It would be awesome to see Tommy and the Crimson pull an upset here. 17 minutes left, a long way to go.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Harvard looking sharp.

[hurleyfor3]

It's not an upset if everyone picks it.

[theAlaskanBear]

It's not an upset if everyone picks it.

That should be game on the air-ball 3 by Cinci. Entertaining game. Crimson Tommy and the Amaker Tide move on!

[dukelifer]

It's not an upset if everyone picks it.

Still nice to see- but until the end- they almost lost it at the line!

[brevity]

Harvard 61, Cincinnati 57.

Side note: why is the pod of Michigan State, Cincinnati, Harvard, and Delaware playing in Spokane? I thought the floating pod system was designed to prevent this after that year that Georgetown, Maryland, and some other area team (GW?) were shipped to Boise.

[hurleyfor3]

Harvard 61, Cincinnati 57.

Side note: why is the pod of Michigan State, Cincinnati, Harvard, and Delaware playing in Spokane? I thought the floating pod system was designed to prevent this after that year that Georgetown, Maryland, and some other area team (GW?) were shipped to Boise.

Specially with Oregon and Byu playing in... that hotbed of Mormonism, Milwaukee?

[Duvall]

Harvard 61, Cincinnati 57.

Side note: why is the pod of Michigan State, Cincinnati, Harvard, and Delaware playing in Spokane? I thought the floating pod system was designed to prevent this after that year that Georgetown, Maryland, and some other area team (GW?) were shipped to Boise.

Because all the eastern (and midwestern and southern) pods got taken by teams seeded higher than Michigan State? Someone had to go to Spokane.

[superdave]

Per Kedsy's analysis, Michigan State's non-chalk path to the Final Four just got easier since they dont have to face Cincy.

[Dev11]

Per Kedsy's analysis, Michigan State's non-chalk path to the Final Four just got easier since they dont have to face Cincy.

Provided they don't get caught looking ahead during their matchup right now with the Blue Hens...

[Acymetric]

Anyone else watching? Go St. Joe!

[arnie]

Anyone else watching? Go St. Joe!

Pulling against St. Joes- they're an Atlantic 10 team.

[Acymetric]

Pulling against St. Joes- they're an Atlantic 10 team.

I get what you're saying, but in favor of UConn? Never thought I'd see the day...

Still, if I can make it out of day one with my only bad pick being St. Joe's in an overtime game I'll take it. Let's go State and ND State!

[AncientPsychicT]

A Big Ten-Plus-Four team (Michigan State) scored 93 points in regulation today. Should I start stocking up on perishables?

[J4Kop99]

Enjoyed the uconn-st joes game but it did bring me back to the days where I would spend many hours a week reading about DeAndre Daniels...

[Henderson]

Because all the eastern (and midwestern and southern) pods got taken by teams seeded higher than Michigan State? Someone had to go to Spokane.

It's inevitable every year. There are never 25% of the teams coming from the western U.S.

BTW, is P.J. Hairston back at uncch? Or is it just a coincidence that their game today is scheduled for 4:20?

[duke4ever19]

*cough*

[duke4ever19]

Coastal Carolina isn't even a bit afraid of the 'Hoos.

[Here is a Turtle]

I crossing my fingers for UVa to lose and this to be the biggest upset in tournament history, but this is what UVa does. They're consistent. They'll probably pull it off, but man am I hoping that they lose.

[duke4ever19]

This is really mean, I know, but I want them to lose so it deflects the attention away from the Duke loss. Today has been brutal.

[FerryFor50]

I crossing my fingers for UVa to lose and this to be the biggest upset in tournament history, but this is what UVa does. They're consistent. They'll probably pull it off, but man am I hoping that they lose.

This tournament has been weird. WAY more upsets than last season. Even the 1 seeds have been sweating it out. Florida and Zona both had issues with their matchups.

[Here is a Turtle]

This is really mean, I know, but I want them to lose so it deflects the attention away from the Duke loss. Today has been brutal.

VCU losing like they did will help.They out-NC Stated NC State.

[jipops]

Nice finish by uva. They were pushed and took over when they had to. That's what good teams do.

[Henderson]

VCU losing like they did will help.They out-NC Stated NC State.

Maybe Maryland will lose. That would make me feel better.

Oh wait...

[dukelifer]

Not crazy about how things are developing in this region. UNC catches a break and has a good shot to win today and against UConn. Will not be happy if UK and UNC get to the FF.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Not crazy about how things are developing in this region. UNC catches a break and has a good shot to win today and against UConn. Will not be happy if UK and UNC get to the FF.

North Carolina getting the benefit of some close calls by the refs. Crowd is really booing in protest.

And you think maybe the announcers' would note the fan reactions? Of course not. smh...

Meanwhile, North Carolina 5 minutes from New York City. :mad:

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

North Carolina getting the benefit of some close calls by the refs. Crowd is really booing in protest.

And you think maybe the announcers' would note the fan reactions? Of course not. smh...

Meanwhile, North Carolina 5 minutes from New York City. :mad:
Couple plays ago, Meeks just barreled thru the ISU player for the rebound and stick back. Pretty ugly no call.

[DBFAN]

North Carolina getting the benefit of some close calls by the refs. Crowd is really booing in protest.

And you think maybe the announcers' would note the fan reactions? Of course not. smh...

Meanwhile, North Carolina 5 minutes from New York City. :mad:

Kerr was Jordan's teammate so don't expect much

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Meeks is going to really be a handful next year

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Meeks is going to really be a handful next year
Depending on his diet...

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

What a late call!!!

[Kedsy]

Thank goodness.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

I know we're all going to be happy that UNC lost, but a complaint about the ruling at the end of this game.

If the clock operator is slow to start the clock, the teams on the floor will make decisions based on what the clock shows. It's unfair to retroactively punish a team (or reward the other team) because the clock started slow. A player tries to call a time out because he thinks he has 0.7 seconds or whatever...because that's what the clock shows...I think it's ridiculous to then look at the replay, determine the clock started 1.3 seconds late, and call the game over. You're asking players and coaches to abide by some unseen clock, rather than the one displayed for all to see.

Granted...the kid would've obviously been better off shooting rather than trying to call time out, and the odds of making a basket there after a time out were pretty slim...but I think that ruling is BS.

[Atlanta Duke]

Thank goodness

Too bad CBS had to go to 60 Minutes and Kenny Smith could not share his postgame thoughts

[75Crazie]

Carolina will NOT get past Iowa State.
As promised ... and even without a key Iowa State player, out with a broken foot.

[arnie]

Thank goodness.

That was bizarre. What was Britt thinking and how does that happen to the clock? All that's happened is a big downer for the ACC. Maybe unfair but this is how conferences are judged.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Bizzaro ending to the game

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Meeks is going to really be a handful next year

Probably, but I'll take "Big Oak" over "Big Fat" anyday. :D

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Can't this board be happy about anything? UNC lost. It's a good day. Clock be damned - they got plenty of favorable calls at the end and still blew it. Say it with me now... YAY!

[BlueDevilBrowns]

That was bizarre. What was Britt thinking and how does that happen to the clock? All that's happened is a big downer for the ACC. Maybe unfair but this is how conferences are judged.

It's something UNC does pretty routinely at the end of games. They'll run up to half-court and call a TO to set up a play. The mistake was Britt thinking they had more time than they really did.

If I was a UNC fan, I'd be pretty sick right now. The region was setting up for them quite nicely.[single tear]:o

[CDu]

Thank goodness. That is all. Go UVa (I guess).

[gumbomoop]

I have more than once been very critical of Roy Williams. To this day, I am appalled by what he did during Kendall Marshall's injury.

Nevertheless, he acted with great class in calmly accepting the referees' explanation after the extended replay viewing. I doubt most coaches would have acted quite so calmly. He seems not even to have questioned a single word of their explanation. I think many, many coaches would have shown their disagreement, forcefully.

[FerryFor50]

My thoughts on the UNC loss....


Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!

[hurleyfor3]

Can't this board be happy about anything? UNC lost. It's a good day. Clock be damned - they got plenty of favorable calls at the end and still blew it. Say it with me now... YAY!

I can't figure out whether you were trolling for Grumpy Mod or Fluttershy. I'll assume the former.

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4018

[chainsaw]

The mistake was Britt thinking they had more time than they really did.[single tear]:o

It's on Ol' Roy as well. He was signaling for the T.O. as Britt came across half court. Situational awareness was lacking at all levels.

Very gutty performance by the Cyclones.

[Atlanta Duke]

Can't this board be happy about anything? UNC lost. It's a good day. Clock be damned - they got plenty of favorable calls at the end and still blew it. Say it with me now... YAY!

I am happy - only bad thing today was Kentucky winning. But at least that means someone has to lose the Louisville-Kentucky game

YAY!

[Ralph-Wiggum]

It's on Ol' Roy as well. He was signaling for the T.O. as Britt came across half court. Situational awareness was lacking at all levels.


Roy was calling for TO as soon as the ball went through the hoops but the refs failed to notice him.

[dukelifer]

Can't this board be happy about anything? UNC lost. It's a good day. Clock be damned - they got plenty of favorable calls at the end and still blew it. Say it with me now... YAY!

Happy. UNC was looking at a final 8 with a shot. This team will be back next year. They will be an early favorite.

[Duvall]

Happy. UNC was looking at a final 8 with a shot. This team will be back next year. They will be an early favorite.

A favorite for what? Hard to see them passing UVa.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

A favorite for what? Hard to see them passing UVa.

Agreed, I think Paige will seriously consider going Pro this year. If Tyler Ennis is a late lottery pick, then Paige is Top 10, or should be.

IF Paige returns, they'll be Preseason Top 10. But we'll see...

[dukelifer]

A favorite for what? Hard to see them passing UVa.

They have excellent talent coming in and more experience. UVa will be good but losing Harris is non trivial. I expect the ACC will be better next year.

[gumbomoop]

Hard to predict that UVA would have an even better season next year, but they will still have an experienced starting 5, and at least 2 solid reserves. And an emerging great coach. So they have an expert teacher and, it seems, willing pupils.

[hurleyfor3]

I'm waiting for the NCAA to call both teams back onto the court and replay the last 1.6 seconds, a la the 1972 Olympics.

[dukelifer]

Hard to predict that UVA would have an even better season next year, but they will still have an experienced starting 5, and at least 2 solid reserves. And an emerging great coach. So they have an expert teacher and, it seems, willing pupils.

UVa looking good right now- that D is stout. Memphis is playing right into their hands.

[moonpie23]

clock didn't start when heels touched it...


correct call....no TO...

[_Gary]

UVa looking good right now- that D is stout.

Yes indeed. UVA is for real, as if there were any doubt. I see them as one of 4 remaining true threats to beat Florida. Unfortunately they'll have to face another one of those threats in MSU in the next round. I still think the Committee set up some screwy scenarios this year where some brackets were brutal while others were too easy. Florida's going to coast into the Final Four, having been placed into a very easy bracket. Albeit, they were the best team going in so I guess the bell curve worked in that regard.

[FerryFor50]

Yes indeed. UVA is for real, as if there were any doubt. I see them as one of 4 remaining true threats to beat Florida. Unfortunately they'll have to face another one of those threats in MSU in the next round. I still think the Committee set up some screwy scenarios this year where some brackets were brutal while others were too easy. Florida's going to coast into the Final Four, having been placed into a very easy bracket. Albeit, they were the best team going in so I guess the bell curve worked in that regard.

I don't think UVA is for real.

I think Memphis just isn't very good. Remember, UVA struggled with their 16 seed opponent.

UVA will run into trouble when they play MSU.

[DU82]

Ah, the irony of UNC losing because they didn't call a timeout.

[cspan37421]

I don't think UVA is for real.

I think Memphis just isn't very good. Remember, UVA struggled with their 16 seed opponent.


Mississippi Valley State '86 says hello.

So do Princeton '89, ETSU '89, and Western Carolina '96.

You may be right about MSU, but we'll see.

I think UVA is for real. They won the ACC RS by what, 2 games? And won the ACCT? To resurrect a Q from the ACCT thread, what more do they have to do to be real? Play better in pre-conference games? I suppose if the ACC truly stinks (look at NCAAT results), UVA's accomplishments are diminished ... but what does that make us?

[FerryFor50]

Mississippi Valley State '86 says hello.

So do Princeton '89, ETSU '89, and Western Carolina '96.

You may be right about MSU, but we'll see.

I think UVA is for real. They won the ACC RS by what, 2 games? And won the ACCT? To resurrect a Q from the ACCT thread, what more do they have to do to be real? Play better in pre-conference games? I suppose if the ACC truly stinks (look at NCAAT results), UVA's accomplishments are diminished ... but what does that make us?

I think Duke's loss to Mercer pretty much answers the question "what does that make us." I thought Duke was a good team, but obviously were not for real.

As I've mentioned before regarding UVA...

- they lost handily to Tennessee
- they lost to VCU
- they didn't have to play Duke, Syracuse or UNC twice in the regular season; think they might have gotten 2 more losses if they did?

Now, as we're seeing, maybe the ACC wasn't as strong as we thought this season.

[vick]

I think Duke's loss to Mercer pretty much answers the question "what does that make us." I thought Duke was a good team, but obviously were not for real.

As I've mentioned before regarding UVA...

- they lost handily to Tennessee
- they lost to VCU
- they didn't have to play Duke, Syracuse or UNC twice in the regular season; think they might have gotten 2 more losses if they did?

Now, as we're seeing, maybe the ACC wasn't as strong as we thought this season.

Maybe but unlikely. They'd have been large favorites against us at their place at least by late season, probably favored at UNC, and only slight underdogs at Syracuse. Adding in those three games into current Kenpom, which I know includes tournament results but is probably reasonably close, UVa would have an expected value of 1.83 wins.

We really, really, really, really need to drop this easy scheduling stuff as a fanbase. Not only does it make us look whiny, but it's very unlikely the advantage is as large as two (or three!) games. People keep ignoring the fact that our game against UVa taking place in Cameron was a large advantage to us.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

clock didn't start when heels touched it...


correct call....no TO...

Yup, correct call. But still weird and a rough way to lose.

[FerryFor50]

Maybe but unlikely. They'd have been large favorites against us at their place at least by late season, probably favored at UNC, and only slight underdogs at Syracuse. Adding in those three games into current Kenpom, which I know includes tournament results but is probably reasonably close, UVa would have an expected value of 1.83 wins.

We really, really, really, really need to drop this easy scheduling stuff as a fanbase. Not only does it make us look whiny, but it's very unlikely the advantage is as large as two (or three!) games. People keep ignoring the fact that our game against UVa taking place in Cameron was a large advantage to us.

I think we have all learned from this tournament that Kenpom and other predictors are an exercise in futility.

The only way to know who the "best team" is would be to have them play the games. The fact that UVA didn't have to play the top teams in the ACC more than once due to the unbalanced schedule means that not only did they not have to risk losing to those teams (or beating them), but they also didn't get the wear and tear from facing tougher teams.

Yes, they beat the teams they should most of the season. But I've never been sold on them from watching them or looking at who they've had to play. It's not "whining" to point out the schedule disparity; it's attempting to back up my opinion with some fact.

[CameronDuke]

For those that still don't think uva is for real, when do you ever think they'll accomplish enough for you to call them for real? They demolished Cuse, beat UNC, beat Duke, demolished NCSU at NCSU, and beat Pitt at Pitt. All of those teams made the tournament. They are going to win tonight vs Memphis by 15-25 points. They won the ACC RS and Tournament. They're not the same team that lost to VCU in early November which isn't even a bad loss. They're in the sweet 16. I guess I'm having trouble understanding the metric used for determining if a team is for real. Do they have to beat Michigan State for some people to call them for real?

[_Gary]

For those that still don't think uva is for real, when do you ever think they'll accomplish enough for you to call them for real? They demolished Cuse, beat UNC, beat Duke, demolished NCSU at NCSU, and beat Pitt at Pitt. All of those teams made the tournament. They are going to win tonight vs Memphis by 15-25 points. They won the ACC RS and Tournament. They're not the same team that lost to VCU in early November which isn't even a bad loss. They're in the sweet 16. I guess I'm having trouble understanding the metric used for determining if a team is for real. Do they have to beat Michigan State for some people to call them for real?

Gotta agree with all this. UVA has definitely earned my respect over the last several weeks. Now, I do think MSU is a serious contender as well and it certainly wouldn't be a shock to see them beat the Cavs. But that won't change my opinion on this year's ACC regular season and Tournament champs. They are "for real" in my book.

[NSDukeFan]

For those that still don't think uva is for real, when do you ever think they'll accomplish enough for you to call them for real? They demolished Cuse, beat UNC, beat Duke, demolished NCSU at NCSU, and beat Pitt at Pitt. All of those teams made the tournament. They are going to win tonight vs Memphis by 15-25 points. They won the ACC RS and Tournament. They're not the same team that lost to VCU in early November which isn't even a bad loss. They're in the sweet 16. I guess I'm having trouble understanding the metric used for determining if a team is for real. Do they have to beat Michigan State for some people to call them for real?

I refuse to call them for real until they have the best regular season record in the ACC by at least two games, win the ACC championship and advance in the NCAA tournament farther than any other ACC team.

[FerryFor50]

For those that still don't think uva is for real, when do you ever think they'll accomplish enough for you to call them for real? They demolished Cuse, beat UNC, beat Duke, demolished NCSU at NCSU, and beat Pitt at Pitt. All of those teams made the tournament. They are going to win tonight vs Memphis by 15-25 points. They won the ACC RS and Tournament. They're not the same team that lost to VCU in early November which isn't even a bad loss. They're in the sweet 16. I guess I'm having trouble understanding the metric used for determining if a team is for real. Do they have to beat Michigan State for some people to call them for real?

If they beat MSU, then yes, I will be convinced.

Duke also beat Syracuse, UNC, demolished NCSU and beat Pitt at Pitt. Heck, at times Duke also beat Duke. Not convinced that ACC record is any indicator, especially with the unbalanced schedule.

[_Gary]

Once tonight was not enough, so for good measure:

What happened to UNC earlier today? Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NSDukeFan]

If they beat MSU, then yes, I will be convinced.

Duke also beat Syracuse, UNC, demolished NCSU and beat Pitt at Pitt. Heck, at times Duke also beat Duke. Not convinced that ACC record is any indicator, especially with the unbalanced schedule.

But they won the regular season by two games. If you take their two easiest games, substitute the two hardest teams to make their schedule the most difficult of any team, they still would have won the regular season. Who cares about the unbalanced schedule? It's not like they played BC and VT at home every game.

[sagegrouse]

I think Duke's loss to Mercer pretty much answers the question "what does that make us." I thought Duke was a good team, but obviously were not for real.

As I've mentioned before regarding UVA...

- they lost handily to Tennessee
- they lost to VCU
- they didn't have to play Duke, Syracuse or UNC twice in the regular season; think they might have gotten 2 more losses if they did?

Now, as we're seeing, maybe the ACC wasn't as strong as we thought this season.

Those games, three months ago or longer, are really irrelevant now, as the TSC correctly decided when giving UVa a #1 seed. UVa is playing very well; the first real NCAA test will come against Michigan State.

[CameronDuke]

If they beat MSU, then yes, I will be convinced.

Duke also beat Syracuse, UNC, demolished NCSU and beat Pitt at Pitt. Heck, at times Duke also beat Duke. Not convinced that ACC record is any indicator, especially with the unbalanced schedule.

So let me get this straight. You will predicate your entire reasoning of whether uva is for real or not based on one game in the sweet 16 vs a legit national title contender? You'd throw a blind eye towards their ACC regular season title, ACC tournament title, absolute thrashing of memphis in the round of 32, and appearance in the regional semifinals of the NCAAT? Seems like the bigger picture that includes their entire body of work far outweighs their performance in one game vs a perennial final four team caliber in Michigan State.

[FerryFor50]

So let me get this straight. You will predicate your entire reasoning of whether uva is for real or not based on one game in the sweet 16 vs a legit national title contender? You'd throw a blind eye towards their ACC regular season title, ACC tournament title, absolute thrashing of memphis in the round of 32, and appearance in the regional semifinals of the NCAAT? Seems like the bigger picture that includes their entire body of work far outweighs their performance in one game vs a perennial final four team in Michigan State.

Kind of like how you ignored the regular season and based the record of the ACC and A-10 in the tournament to discern that the ACC wasn't better and that K's remarks were unfounded? (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?33477-Shaka-Smart-and-Coach-K/page8)

I swear, it's like people forget what they've already said on the Internet.

Yea, I think I'll stick with my gut feeling about UVA and see if they beat MSU, thanks.

[CameronDuke]

Also, I will admit Michigan State is UVA's first real test of the NCAAT, but the way they looked today vs Memphis and in their last 19 games (UVA is 18-1 in their last 19 winning the majority by double digits), I'd be shocked if UVA didn't open as a favorite vs Michigan State. I think uva will be favored in that game by 2-3 points.

[CameronDuke]

Kind of like how you ignored the regular season and based the record of the ACC and A-10 in the tournament to discern that the ACC wasn't better and that K's remarks were unfounded? (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?33477-Shaka-Smart-and-Coach-K/page8)

I swear, it's like people forget what they've already said on the Internet.

Yea, I think I'll stick with my gut feeling about UVA and see if they beat MSU, thanks.

The argument of whether a conference is better than another conference and whether a team is for real or not are two entirely different arguments. A team's entire season needs to be considered. A conference team can show up for one game and defeat another conference's team in the tournament and this deserves consideration because they usually don't play until the tournament.

[FerryFor50]

Also, I will admit Michigan State is UVA's first real test of the NCAAT, but the way they looked today vs Memphis and in their last 19 games (UVA is 18-1 in their last 19 winning the majority by double digits), I'd be shocked if UVA didn't open as a favorite vs Michigan State. I think uva will be favored in that game by 2-3 points.

I'd have rather seen UVA get Gonzaga or Kentucky (or even Pitt) as their 2nd round game. Those would have been a better test. Memphis is, and has been, an offensively challenged team all season (#50 offense in kenpom). Plays right into UVA's strengths. The other teams that made it to play a 1 seed were top 20 in offense (Kentucky and Pitt) and top 40 (Gonzaga).

[FerryFor50]

The argument of whether a conference is better than another conference and whether a team is for real or not are two entirely different arguments. A team's entire season needs to be considered. A conference team can show up for one game and defeat another conference's team in the tournament and this deserves consideration because they usually don't play until the tournament.

What? You can discount an ENTIRE CONFERENCE'S SEASON because they don't play each other usually? That makes no sense.

I'm basing my opinion on UVA's regular season and what I've seen when watching them. I have not been impressed.

[CameronDuke]

What? You can discount an ENTIRE CONFERENCE'S SEASON because they don't play each other usually? That makes no sense.

I'm basing my opinion on UVA's regular season and what I've seen when watching them. I have not been impressed.

You're comparing apples to oranges. If you're talking one team and if they're forreal or not, there's no way I give that analysis much weight of whether they're forreal or not based on one sweet 16 game they play. If teams from two different conferences play each other in the NCAAT, yes I will gladly say one team successfully represented their conference better and made it look stronger based off a win in the NCAAT. Not too far fetched an idea in my mind...

[CoachJ10]

Anthony Gill is turning into a very good player. I like how physically strong the Cavs are. That has been an element missing from our teams over the past few years.

[FerryFor50]

You're comparing apples to oranges. If you're talking one team and if they're forreal or not, there's no way I give that analysis much weight of whether they're forreal or not based on one sweet 16 team. If teams from two different conferences play each other in the NCAAT, yes I will gladly say one team successfully represented their conference better and made it look stronger based off a win in the NCAAT. Not too far fetched an idea in my mind...

But I'm not basing it on one game. Beating MSU would simply be the tipping point. I'm factoring in the rest of the season, too - the conference record, the non-conference wins and losses and fewer real tests in-conference due to unbalanced scheduling.

[CameronDuke]

But I'm not basing it on one game. Beating MSU would simply be the tipping point. I'm factoring in the rest of the season, too - the conference record, the non-conference wins and losses and fewer real tests in-conference due to unbalanced scheduling.

Hmmm, you posted you won't consider them for real until they beat Michigan State in the Sweet 16. I'm not sure I understand how you're not basing your analysis of uva based off one game...

Anyways, uva is still dancing and gets to play one of the best college basketball programs in America at Madison Square Garden. And Duke lost to Mercer...

Go ACC.

[FerryFor50]

Hmmm, you posted you won't consider them for real until they beat Michigan State in the Sweet 16. I'm not sure I understand how you're not basing your analysis of uva based off one game...

Anyways, uva is still dancing and gets to play one of the best college basketball programs in America at Madison Square Garden. And Duke lost to Mercer...

Go ACC.

I guess you don't understand the phrase "tipping point."

[CameronDuke]

If they beat MSU, then yes, I will be convinced.

Duke also beat Syracuse, UNC, demolished NCSU and beat Pitt at Pitt. Heck, at times Duke also beat Duke. Not convinced that ACC record is any indicator, especially with the unbalanced schedule.

Go back and read that first sentence. That's where im having a problem understanding you.

My point was tipped long before uva beat Duke in the ACCT, before they smashed Cuse, and before they beat a team by 18 that went 2-0 v Louisville (Memphis in case you were wondering) that they're a real team.

[FerryFor50]

Go back and read that first sentence. That's where im having a problem understanding you.

My point was tipped long before uva beat Duke in the ACCT, before they smashed Cuse, and before they beat a team by 18 that went 2-0 v Louisville (Memphis in case you were wondering) that they're a real team.

And my tipping point is MSU because I think Memphis is not very good.

UVA "smashed Cuse" in the 2nd half, after Jerami Grant was out most of the game with an injury. It was a 1 point game at the half.

Memphis beat Lville but had some bad losses, too.

[gumbomoop]

Game times have been announced for Thurs & Fri. From my perspective, it's unfortunate that (1) both the UL-UK and UVa-Mich St games Fri eve will commence roughly just before or just after 10 pm (bleccchhh....) local time (EDT in both cases), and therefore (2) I'll have to switch back and forth, or simply miss most of one of these two exciting matchups.

In fact, given late-game TOs and now the late-game official reviews, we could guess that one or the other game will begin closer to 10:15 local and EDT.

[Atlanta Duke]

Game times have been announced for Thurs & Fri. From my perspective, it's unfortunate that (1) both the UL-UK and UVa-Mich St games Fri eve will commence roughly just before or just after 10 pm (bleccchhh....) local time (EDT in both cases), and therefore (2) I'll have to switch back and forth, or simply miss most of one of these two exciting matchups.

In fact, given late-game TOs and now the late-game official reviews, we could guess that one or the other game will begin closer to 10:15 local and EDT.

Also disappointed the 2 Friday games I am most interested in will be on at the same time.

My only guess is they do not want Michigan (Midwest - CBS) and Michigan State (East - TBS) playing at the same time so as to not cannibalize ratings in the Big Ten Midwest U.S. viewing area.

Link to Thursday/Friday schedules

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24488130/ncaa-tournament-tv-schedule-tip-times-announcing-teams