MBB: Duke 75, NC State 67 (ACCT Semis) Post-Game Thread

[JBDuke]

Put your post-game thoughts here.

[ice-9]

NC State made some really tough shots in the first half and came back down to earth in the second. We made some good tweaks for the second half, doing a better job on containing Barber, limiting Warren's touches and crowding him whenever he did. Turner was taken completely out of the game, and NC State needed him to shoot well to beat us. Our defence was simply fantastic in the second half. Offensively, we had some easy baskets in transition.

Parker was a beast -- that fast break dunk was a thing of beauty. Sulaimon played really well, especially whenever he drove in for layups. Quinn shot well. Rodney and Amile were solid. Rodney did a great job on Warren in the second half, even if Warren did shoot 10-22 overall.

Our free throws have got to be a major concern. Sulaimon looked exhausted and was an unbelievable 1-5 from the charity stripe. Rodney wasn't much better at 2-6. We have to do a better job going forward; we shot better from the field than from the free throw line! Hopefully we'll have something in the tank for UVA.

Overall, a solid showing from Duke.

[hurleyfor3]

Discuss here. Apparently Hood's stomach was better today.

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4006

[Henderson]

Karma for some outstanding FT shooting last night. But the FG% and 3PT% way up. 2-1 assist/turnover ratio and a solid rebounding game.

Nice win.

[duke4ever19]

Discuss here. Apparently Hood's stomach was better today.

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4006

Ewwwww.

Good win vs. a desperate team. On to UVA! Here's hoping Jabari more than doubles his previous offensive output vs the Hoos. (8 pts).

[Utley]

Good 2nd half - State shooting reverted to the mean.

It feels,like we win better when we are close at the half and fight through the 2nd half as opposed to those games where we are up 10+ at the half and seem to end up having to hold on for dear life.

[porkpa]

Vitale darn near gave me a heart attack when he was talking about Duke-Virginia tomorrow with Duke up by ten with four minutes left. Didn't he see yesterday's game?

[Henderson]

Our free throws have got to be a major concern.

I don't know. We were 89% last night. Not good today, but a major concern? Marshall didn't miss a one.

[jipops]

What a defensive turnaround. We gave them very easy looks in the first half and then finally gave them some ball pressure in the 2nd. State started to take bad shots and make mistakes. Glad we held on.

[devilnfla]

Love that we're playing tomorrow but really hate how this team closes games and makes a win feel like a loss.

[Dukehky]

I don't know. We were 89% last night. Not good today, but a major concern?

Rodney and Rasheed were the primary defenders tonight, and worked their butts off. That shouldn't make that much of a difference on FTs, but I anticipate them being used to the fatigued FT shooting tomorrow. Blip on the radar IMO. No real excuse for Quinn's misses, but he played really well this afternoon.

[gofurman]

Vitale darn near gave me a heart attack when he was talking about Duke-Virginia tomorrow with Duke up by ten with four minutes left. Didn't he see yesterday's game?


Quick unrelated question - are Embiid for Kansas and Grant for Syracuse still out or when are they back? As I understood it I think Grant is already back?

[the_weak_sauce]

Quick unrelated question - are Embiid for Kansas and Grant for Syracuse still out or when are they back? As I understood it I think Grant is already back?

Grant is back, he played yesterday and did pretty well. Embiid isn't back yet, and won't be until the second weekend of the tourney, if he comes back at all.

[KandG]

Thought Tyler's foul trouble was a blessing in disguise. Quinn played well and has really improved in his ability to manage the offense when they're trying to break down the zone. As critical as I was of Quinn during the regular season, he should have had more than 12 minutes yesterday. Good for him for being largely excellent this afternoon (not to mention being the only Duke player who could make his FTs down the stretch).

Obviously didn't care for the FT shooting at the end, and some of the possessions when stall ball kicked in full bore under the six minute mark. But I'm sure fatigue played a part, and Duke was fortunate that State was even more exhausted.

Tomorrow is going to test the conditioning of the players, with another really tough one against a defensive juggernaut. Go Duke!

[ice-9]

I don't know. We were 89% last night. Not good today, but a major concern? Marshall didn't miss a one.

It's a major concern because of what it indicates -- fatigue, whether physical or mental.

We ARE playing the ACC regular season champ tomorrow.

[pfrduke]

Love that we're playing tomorrow but really hate how this team closes games and makes a win feel like a loss.

I don't know, we did almost everything right down the stretch except make free throws. That was far better than most of our closeout efforts have been recently.

[Furniture]

Love that we're playing tomorrow but really hate how this team closes games and makes a win feel like a loss.

Feels like a really good win to me.
I was at the game. Sheed was MOM!

[drcharl]

Why didn't we see Andre today?

[dukelifer]

What a defensive turnaround. We gave them very easy looks in the first half and then finally gave them some ball pressure in the 2nd. State started to take bad shots and make mistakes. Glad we held on.

Minus the horrid free throw shooting - Rasheed was very good today. His drives were key. Got the good Cook today- that always helps. Fortunately State gave up just as Duke started to miss throws. Not sure why they stopped playing but there was no intensity at the end - strange.

[NYBri]

Glad we didn't need the free throws. Jabari. What a player.

[_Gary]

Am I the only one wondering why Andre didn't see the floor at all? Or why we shortened the rotation big time? Those are concerns I have leading into an early tip-off tomorrow. If Andre was sick or hurt, obviously my first question is answered. But if not, I'm really perplexed at the rotation (or lack thereof in the 2nd half).

[LobstersPinchPinch]

Love that we're playing tomorrow but really hate how this team closes games and makes a win feel like a loss.

I think I know what you mean. It feels better to have the final differential closer to our largest lead rather than our smallest lead.

[_Gary]

Matchups?

Makes zero sense to me, but who knows.

[NYBri]

Am I the only one wondering why Andre didn't see the floor at all? Or why we shortened the rotation big time? Those are concerns I have leading into an early tip-off tomorrow. If Andre was sick or hurt, obviously my first question is answered. But if not, I'm really perplexed at the rotation (or lack thereof in the 2nd half).

Matchups?

[Saratoga2]

There were some great efforts made out there with Jabari, Rodney, Quinn, Rasheed and Amile all doing well offensively and in the second half the defense was much better. The first half the defense just wasn't there. I think we gave away 10 points in free throws at the end of the game. Rasheed was 1 for 6, Rodney missed one, Quinn missed the front end of a one of one and Jabari missed a couple. Can't tank like that against Virgiia tomorrow.

We had Josh out there and he did score but I think he had 4 fouls in about 5 minutes and at least two of them were and ones. Why not Marshall or Semi?

Great to win this one and our offense was clicking and the defense was good in the second half, but lets not give teams a chance. Lets take them completely out of it when we can. We did get quite a few players in and should use Matt more to keep us fresh. Hoping for a good result.

[wsb3]

Thought Tyler's foul trouble was a blessing in disguise. Quinn played well and has really improved in his ability to manage the offense when they're trying to break down the zone. As critical as I was of Quinn during the regular season, he should have had more than 12 minutes yesterday. Good for him for being largely excellent this afternoon (not to mention being the only Duke player who could make his FTs down the stretch).

Obviously didn't care for the FT shooting at the end, and some of the possessions when stall ball kicked in full bore under the six minute mark. But I'm sure fatigue played a part, and Duke was fortunate that State was even more exhausted.

Tomorrow is going to test the conditioning of the players, with another really tough one against a defensive juggernaut. Go Duke!

I didn't want to go there but you did and I agree in regards to Tyler. Cook was in when we got our working margin.

The horrible free throw shooting down the stretch is one more example of us not closing games out and thankfully I think State was too worn out from 3 games in 3 days to take advantage. But you play the regular season for seeding and it paid off.

Glad that traditional ACC teams are in the final.

[Henderson]

Am I the only one wondering why Andre didn't see the floor at all? Or why we shortened the rotation big time? Those are concerns I have leading into an early tip-off tomorrow. If Andre was sick or hurt, obviously my first question is answered. But if not, I'm really perplexed at the rotation (or lack thereof in the 2nd half).

This was discussed on another thread. The answer is his shooting stats over the past 6 games. He's been shooting less than 40% from the floor and less than 20% from 3 for the past few weeks. And he's not a defensive player, so if he's not producing on offense, he produces by being a good bench team mate.

[Troublemaker]

Quinn was huge. He's played well the past three games now and can hopefully give us 25 good minutes a game going forward, something I think we need to be serious contenders. He was virtually flawless making decisions --showed a lot of patience-- and even made some nice entries when NCSU went zone. Don't want to jinx it but maybe his shot is back, too.

[NashvilleDevil]

Love that we're playing tomorrow but really hate how this team closes games and makes a win feel like a loss.

No. You're making it feel like a loss. Duke looked pretty good today.

[porkpa]

When I see Jabari, I see a Grant Hill with even more power who is gradually attaining Grant's finesse and leadership.

[wsb3]

Quinn was huge. He's played well the past three games now and can hopefully give us 25 good minutes a game going forward, something I think we need to be serious contenders. He was virtually flawless making decisions --showed a lot of patience-- and even made some nice entries when NCSU went zone. Don't want to jinx it but maybe his shot is back, too.

I avoided ESPN for the game (insert Dickie V) & watched our local station but I was told that Jason Williams said that for Duke to win a national championship they have to get major contributions from QC. I concur.

[Henderson]

The horrible free throw shooting down the stretch is one more example of us not closing games out and thankfully I think State was too worn out from 3 games in 3 days to take advantage.

How soon we forget. It was the FT shooting yesterday (89%) that saved our bacon in the end. Most of all, Rodney Hood's clutch free throws in a 1-1 situation down by 1 with 3.8 seconds to go. It was an issue today, granted though.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

I feel much better about this win than last night. We hit our FT's and we win by 12+.

To be in the title game for the first time in three years is an accomplishment.

I'm happy.

[vick]

There were some great efforts made out there with Jabari, Rodney, Quinn, Rasheed and Amile all doing well offensively and in the second half the defense was much better. The first half the defense just wasn't there. I think we gave away 10 points in free throws at the end of the game. Rasheed was 1 for 6, Rodney missed one, Quinn missed the front end of a one of one and Jabari missed a couple. Can't tank like that against Virgiia tomorrow.

We had Josh out there and he did score but I think he had 4 fouls in about 5 minutes and at least two of them were and ones. Why not Marshall or Semi?

Great to win this one and our offense was clicking and the defense was good in the second half, but lets not give teams a chance. Lets take them completely out of it when we can. We did get quite a few players in and should use Matt more to keep us fresh. Hoping for a good result.

Josh only had two fouls, and was more effective in his few minutes than Marshall, who definitely committed a foul for an and-one.

This is a hard sentiment to get across, and I don't want to sound "happy" about Marshall's minutes decreasing, but the last three games (where Amile has not gotten into foul trouble) are probably better indicators of what's likely to be K's preferred rotation in close games going forward than the few before that (when Amile was in foul trouble). Marshall will of course get minutes depending on lineups, foul trouble, and the like, but given that Amile is obviously playing much better, and the Marshall-Amile pairing really damages offensive spacing, it's very hard for me to fault K for leaning more on Amile lately.

[sagegrouse]

Our free throws have got to be a major concern. Sulaimon looked exhausted and was an unbelievable 1-5 from the charity stripe. Rodney wasn't much better at 2-6. We have to do a better job going forward; we shot better from the field than from the free throw line! Hopefully we'll have something in the tank for UVA.

.

Mr Ice-9: Are you familiar with the Law of the Conservation of Free Throws? Last night we shot 89 percent and needed every one of them: if we shoot 75 percent, we lose. Today we had to give back some, and we shot only 52 percent. We gave back too many, but mebbe we get to use them tomorrow. :D

Kindly, Sage

[ice-9]

Mr Ice-9: Are you familiar with the Law of the Conservation of Free Throws? Last night we shot 89 percent and needed every one of them: if we shoot 75 percent, we lose. Today we had to give back some, and we shot only 52 percent. We gave back too many, but mebbe we get to use them tomorrow. :D

Kindly, Sage

I like this sagacious law! :D

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Tough win against a very hungry team. Loved all the different ways we were scoring. Likes Sheed's slashes, Hood's jumpers, Jabari's dunks, Quinn's 3's, and Amile's.... whatever you call it.

The morenways we score, the more difficult we are to defend. We need it all against UVA.

Was baffled by NCSU's lack of urgency in the final minute. Could have been much more tense.

Go Duke!

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

How about some love for Thor? He has a knack for making critical plays at critical moments. His 3 was well timed. And that dive, steal and recover defensive play was an awesome momentum builder. He plays winner. I love that kid.

[Bob Green]

This was discussed on another thread. The answer is his shooting stats over the past 6 games. He's been shooting less than 40% from the floor and less than 20% from 3 for the past few weeks. And he's not a defensive player, so if he's not producing on offense, he produces by being a good bench team mate.

I do not agree with this at all. There were discussions in chat at another site saying Dawkins was ill. That makes more sense to me but I do not know if it is true. Plus your past six games statistics ignore his season long body of work which is quite good. Dawkins has made 43% of his 3 PT FGs this season, which is best on the team and he is second on the team in raw numbers for 3 PT FGs made with 61. Rodney Hood has made 65. Dawkins has also scored 153 more points than Tyler Thornton. Bottom line, we need Dawkins to play some minutes so the fact he played zero today influences me to believe he is sick.

[NYBri]

Tough win against a very hungry team. Loved all the different ways we were scoring. Likes Sheed's slashes, Hood's jumpers, Jabari's dunks, Quinn's 3's, and Amile's.... whatever you call it.

The morenways we score, the more difficult we are to defend. We need it all against UVA.

Was baffled by NCSU's lack of urgency in the final minute. Could have been much more tense.

Go Duke!

I think the Wolfpack had no gas left...three games in three days. Best reason to get a bye in the ACC tournament.

[ChrisP]

How about some love for Thor? He has a knack for making critical plays at critical moments. His 3 was well timed. And that dive, steal and recover defensive play was an awesome momentum builder. He plays winner. I love that kid.


Excellent post - I thought Thornton was (as usual for him) amazing today in a non-spectacular way. I love that kid and really hate to see disparaging comments about him on this board. Sure, he's not the most talented player we have, but he certainly gets the most out of the talent he has. One of my favorite Duke players of recent years. And I bet HE would have knocked down his FT's at the end, too! :cool:

[_Gary]

I do not agree with this at all. There were discussions in chat at another site saying Dawkins was ill. That makes more sense to me but I do not know if it is true. Plus your past six games statistics ignore his season long body of work which is quite good. Dawkins has made 43% of his 3 PT FGs this season, which is best on the team and he is second on the team in raw numbers for 3 PT FGs made with 61. Rodney Hood has made 65. Dawkins has also scored 153 more points than Tyler Thornton. Bottom line, we need Dawkins to play some minutes so the fact he played zero today influences me to believe he is sick.

Thanks, Bob. That makes a heck of a lot more sense to me. And I completely agree we are going to need Andre going forward. No doubt about that.

[NSDukeFan]

I amsurprised at the negative tone of some posts in a thread about a victory in the ACC tournament semi finals. I believe Duke committed four turnovers?, played fantastic defence in the second half, got great contributions from the back court, a solid contribution from Josh (seems to be a great teammate and Duke representative), solid play from the all-ACC front court, continued great play from Amile and most importantly, another post season win to advance to the Conference championship, guarantee an NCAA tournament two seed? and people are complaining? I realize everyone is different as a fan, but if you can't enjoy this one, it must be hard to be a fan.
I am very excited for tomorrow to see the team play against a very good team for a championship.

[Edouble]

Great game by Duke.

Jabari's shot selection was great. Only one misfire that I took exception with. As others have suggested, the foul on Thornton that brought Quinn into the game was a blessing in disguise.

Quinn has been on lock with that 3 from the elbow. With Dawkins fading a bit, it is nice to see Quinn coming out of the ashes. I hope he's practicing well, because he's starting to get it done in the games. I always feel like Quinn plays a bit better when he feels his manhood challenged a bit by his counterpart on the other team. It seemed like Cat Barber's quickness made him step up a bit. I thought Quinn got burned once or twice in the first half, and then raised his play in the second half.

Gotta make free throws, but other than that, little to complain about. Our offense was better than their offense.

[Scorp4me]

Thought Tyler's foul trouble was a blessing in disguise.

I thought the play where he dove for the ball then knocked it to a teammate while still on the floor is typical of Tyler's play. The kid is a warrior and a winner. I'll never understand comments like this. He graduates this year...I hope that isn't seen as a blessing in disguise too :(

[Furniture]

Thanks, Bob. That makes a heck of a lot more sense to me. And I completely agree we are going to need Andre going forward. No doubt about that.

At the half time practice Dawkins missed his first few threes. Then finished with a series of straight in's.
He didn't look ill to me.....

[Newton_14]

I do not agree with this at all. There were discussions in chat at another site saying Dawkins was ill. That makes more sense to me but I do not know if it is true. Plus your past six games statistics ignore his season long body of work which is quite good. Dawkins has made 43% of his 3 PT FGs this season, which is best on the team and he is second on the team in raw numbers for 3 PT FGs made with 61. Rodney Hood has made 65. Dawkins has also scored 153 more points than Tyler Thornton. Bottom line, we need Dawkins to play some minutes so the fact he played zero today influences me to believe he is sick.

I wholeheartedly agree Bob. I was cussing midway thru the 2nd half. State was a great opponent for Andre. They can't guard the line at all. He could have given us a big lift. The only thing that makes sense is injury or illness.

[Duke95]

After this game, I've decided to step away from the ledge, but I reserve the right to return to it depending our performance against UVa.

[Billy Dat]

The difference in defense between the first and second half was astounding. State hit some tough shots in the first half, but our D was also pretty poor. In the second half, with very few exceptions, we completely took them out of their game. The first 5 minutes of the second half were just ok, but we really did get a spark with that Jabari steal and dunk with about 15 left to play. From there, we got a Thornton 3 off of nice ball movement, a steal and dunk for Amile. That put us up 9, but Tyler picked up his 4th right then (12:30 to go). Cook came in and State went zone and I prepared for the worst.

Note, for those Josh critics, he also came in at this point and started operating as the foul line distribution guy against the zone and did a really nice job. After some back and forth, the dreaded 10 minute mark came and I noted down, "Up 9, will we fall apart?"

But, Quinn nailed a 3, State got a fortuitous bounce off a deflection for an and 1 in the lane, and Rasheed nailed an elbow jumper off an Amile offensive rebound tip. We were having tons of solid defensive stands - several contests at the rim including a Rodney block - but State hung close. It was around this time, about 8 minutes left and up 11 that I started seeing the signs of stall ball. Rasheed converted a really nasty drive to put us back up 11, and if he'd been able to nail those 3 free throws to put us up 14, we'd have cruised home because State was getting tired and desperate and starting to take really bad shots. Instead, we stunk it up from the line, but it never really got close after that. The play, just under 3, where Jabari ripped the missed Hood free throw away from State and dunked was epic!

Honestly, from 15 minutes to go in the game until we started missing foul shots, I thought we looked awesome! The continuing mystery of this team is that they can never seem to do everything well in the same game.

It's a minor point, but I really think Amile could abuse some of these bigger stiffs guarding him if we'd clear out and let him go one-on-one. He has amazing touch around the hoop. Marshall's play seems to have regressed. Dawkins starting yesterday, barely played, then nothing today...K didn't talk about it in the post-game.

Great team effort. The second half was excellent, save for the missed foul shots. We're playing tomorrow!

[FerryFor50]

The difference in defense between the first and second half was astounding. State hit some tough shots in the first half, but our D was also pretty poor. In the second half, with very few exceptions, we completely took them out of their game. The first 5 minutes of the second half were just ok, but we really did get a spark with that Jabari steal and dunk with about 15 left to play. From there, we got a Thornton 3 off of nice ball movement, a steal and dunk for Amile. That put us up 9, but Tyler picked up his 4th right then (12:30 to go). Cook came in and State went zone and I prepared for the worst.

Note, for those Josh critics, he also came in at this point and started operating as the foul line distribution guy against the zone and did a really nice job. After some back and forth, the dreaded 10 minute mark came and I noted down, "Up 9, will we fall apart?"

But, Quinn nailed a 3, State got a fortuitous bounce off a deflection for an and 1 in the lane, and Rasheed nailed an elbow jumper off an Amile offensive rebound tip. We were having tons of solid defensive stands - several contests at the rim including a Rodney block - but State hung close. It was around this time, about 8 minutes left and up 11 that I started seeing the signs of stall ball. Rasheed converted a really nasty drive to put us back up 11, and if he'd been able to nail those 3 free throws to put us up 14, we'd have cruised home because State was getting tired and desperate and starting to take really bad shots. Instead, we stunk it up from the line, but it never really got close after that. The play, just under 3, where Jabari ripped the missed Hood free throw away from State and dunked was epic!

Honestly, from 15 minutes to go in the game until we started missing foul shots, I thought we looked awesome! The continuing mystery of this team is that they can never seem to do everything well in the same game.

It's a minor point, but I really think Amile could abuse some of these bigger stiffs guarding him if we'd clear out and let him go one-on-one. He has amazing touch around the hoop. Marshall's play seems to have regressed. Dawkins starting yesterday, barely played, then nothing today...K didn't talk about it in the post-game.

Great team effort. The second half was excellent, save for the missed foul shots. We're playing tomorrow!

First half defense wasn't great, but come on... Anthony Barber draining pull up jumpers? Jordan Vandenburg hitting jumpers? That first half was an aberration for State's offense and they STILL were down at the half.

But you're right... 2nd half defense took it up a notch. But they were helped out a bit by Ralston Turner trying to shoot himself into a rhythm (2-10, all from three). Part of the defensive effort was denying TJ Warren touches, but I think some of that was NCSU forgetting who the ACC player of the year was.

The FT misses, especially the 0-3 by Sheed after being fouled on a 3, were inexplicable. Maybe it was tired legs, but 52% will not cut it against UVA.

Glad to see the team bounce back and play a better all around game. They'll need it tomorrow. Hopefully they handle UVA and take the crown.

[kmspeaks]

I amsurprised at the negative tone of some posts in a thread about a victory in the ACC tournament semi finals. I believe Duke committed four turnovers?, played fantastic defence in the second half, got great contributions from the back court, a solid contribution from Josh (seems to be a great teammate and Duke representative), solid play from the all-ACC front court, continued great play from Amile and most importantly, another post season win to advance to the Conference championship, guarantee an NCAA tournament two seed? and people are complaining? I realize everyone is different as a fan, but if you can't enjoy this one, it must be hard to be a fan.
I am very excited for tomorrow to see the team play against a very good team for a championship.

Agreed. It's March 15th. I'm done looking for and discussing "fatal flaws" or how if x happens again Duke will lose in round y. Survive and advance, and I thought this performance was above the level of just surviving.

[jipops]

I amsurprised at the negative tone of some posts in a thread about a victory in the ACC tournament semi finals. I believe Duke committed four turnovers?, played fantastic defence in the second half, got great contributions from the back court, a solid contribution from Josh (seems to be a great teammate and Duke representative), solid play from the all-ACC front court, continued great play from Amile and most importantly, another post season win to advance to the Conference championship, guarantee an NCAA tournament two seed? and people are complaining? I realize everyone is different as a fan, but if you can't enjoy this one, it must be hard to be a fan.
I am very excited for tomorrow to see the team play against a very good team for a championship.

I thought this was the best game from our backcourt tandem of Quinn and Sheed that we've gotten in a long, long time. There were very few mistakes and they took good shots. Sheed showed a lot more patience today. In the 2nd half they finally turned up the ball pressure on D. I think it's a pretty big deal that these two played as well as they did.

[gotoguy]

Good win and great Defense in the second half After watching the NCSU defense I was impressed at how good Clemson's D was in comparison. 2 good wins to build on for tomorrow

[DU82]

Back from the game a few minutes ago. (Took a while to leave the parking lot, looking for tickets. Too much this afternoon, tomorrow's prices will be much lower.)

Had a great time sitting with KShepinthehouse. We had the "pleasure" of sitting in front of two typical NC State fans. According to them, State's never lost a game, they've always had it taken away from them by the refs, or Coach K conspiring with them. (ALL game we heard this!)

On the floor, loved Parker's game. Other than perhaps one rushed three, under control on O, good shot selection. Same with Rodney on O, and his D on Warren was key.

While I love Tyler, and his deflection of the ball while on the floor and his three later in the game were huge, his third foul allowed Quinn to get in the flow, and he delivered. Good to have BOTH playing well. (Not sure without the foul trouble that Quinn gets as much time.)

Sheed drove to the hoop splitting the D, perhaps the only criticism there was for him to put up more reverse layups than kick it out for a rushed three (especially with the shot clock running down.) Regarding his free throws, when he was knocked down before his three free throws (that he missed) he was clearly hurt a bit. When he came out at the next opportunity, he went to the end of the bench to talk to the trainer. Perhaps explains some of his misses.

Amile had a quiet but really solid game, getting involved on most rebounds and good positioning on D. He also helped double Warren when he was down low, which slowed him down. Warren sat on 15 points for much of the second half, by the time he scored again, we had a comfortable lead.

Not sure what was up with Andre not playing. Marshall played a bit in the first half, but didn't do very well, and with Amile (and a bit of Josh) doing well, not much opportunity for minutes today.

On to tomorrow and the slimy fish.

[Kedsy]

Rodney did a great job on Warren in the second half, even if Warren did shoot 10-22 overall.

Warren has shot 52.5% for the season, so even holding him to 10 for 22 (45.5%) is pretty good.


This was discussed on another thread. The answer is his shooting stats over the past 6 games. He's been shooting less than 40% from the floor and less than 20% from 3 for the past few weeks. And he's not a defensive player, so if he's not producing on offense, he produces by being a good bench team mate.

It may be "the answer" (though I doubt it). Sounds more like your opinion. I mean, Coach K started Andre yesterday. I can't imagine his one missed three pointer against Clemson was the difference between starting and playing zero minutes. There has to be another explanation, whether it's illness or something else.

[Troublemaker]

Here's my stab at it. Duke put up an amazing 1.36 ppp against NCSU that could've easily been >1.40 ppp if we had shot free throws at a decent rate.

I think Coach K saw early in the game that scoring wasn't going to be a problem, so he played all his "defensive" perimeter guys, include some time for Matt Jones.

Against UVA tomorrow, where points will be more precious, I would imagine Andre sees some minutes.

(Incidentally, I really liked starting him against Clemson. I wish we would do that and run some plays for him at the beginning of each game to get him going.)

[Furniture]

Excellent post - I thought Thornton was (as usual for him) amazing today in a non-spectacular way. I love that kid and really hate to see disparaging comments about him on this board. Sure, he's not the most talented player we have, but he certainly gets the most out of the talent he has. One of my favorite Duke players of recent years. And I bet HE would have knocked down his FT's at the end, too! :cool:

TT has always been great at free throws...ever since I can remember....

[MCFinARL]

Here's my stab at it. Duke put up an amazing 1.36 ppp against NCSU that could've easily been >1.40 ppp if we had shot free throws at a decent rate.

I think Coach K saw early in the game that scoring wasn't going to be a problem, so he played all his "defensive" perimeter guys, include some time for Matt Jones.

Against UVA tomorrow, where points will be more precious, I would imagine Andre sees some minutes.

(Incidentally, I really liked starting him against Clemson. I wish we would do that and run some plays for him at the beginning of each game to get him going.)

Assuming there isn't an illness or injury issue, this makes sense. However, given we need to play three games in three days, it seems a little odd that Andre would play 0 minutes and Matt 4 while Rasheed played 36 and Rodney 37 (Cook and Thornton were a bit more balanced at 22 and 25). Granted, Rasheed was playing really well and Coach K may not have wanted to take him out. But I hope having three players clock in at more than 35 minutes today who all also played big minutes Friday night doesn't come back to bite us tomorrow.

[devilnfla]

No. You're making it feel like a loss. Duke looked pretty good today.

I'm not just talking about today. I'm talking about a lot of our games this year. How many times have we had a comfortable lead but failed to put that final nail in the coffin? Last night, today and many other times this year. That doesn't include the games we lost this year where we led comfortably in the second half (@Notre Dame, @Clemson, @UNC, @ Wake Forest). Duke did a lot of good things in the second half. However, their FT shooting almost let them down. It just seems like there's always something that takes a good win and turns it into a less enjoyable win (stall ball, giving up easy lay ups late in the game, defense by fouling, inability to handle the press and today FT shooting). It's not just today.

[Newton_14]

I'm not just talking about today. I'm talking about a lot of our games this year. How many times have we had a comfortable lead but failed to put that final nail in the coffin? Last night, today and many other times this year. That doesn't include the games we lost this year where we led comfortably in the second half (@Notre Dame, @Clemson, @UNC, @ Wake Forest). Duke did a lot of good things in the second half. However, their FT shooting almost let them down. It just seems like there's always something that takes a good win and turns it into a less enjoyable win (stall ball, giving up easy lay ups late in the game, defense by fouling, inability to handle the press and today FT shooting). It's not just today.

I will politely disagree. The only way you could say that the Free Throw shooting "almost let them down today" would have been if State had cut the lead to one possession, tied it, or taken the lead, and Duke would have won a squeaker. The reality is the only damage caused by the missed free throws is State stayed within a reasonable striking distance vs being put away with 4 minutes left.

State never got close enough for the missed free throws to matter. It was aggravating watching them miss so many for sure, but since it was abnormal shooting, and it had no impact on the outcome of the game it's no big deal. Rasheed is an 80% FT shooter and missed 5 in a row. Duke shoots 70% on the year. Plus as someone earlier opined, we are now in the "Survive and Advance" portion of the season. Which means win by any means possible and move on.

Duke has positioned themselves to have a chance at a Title which is the only reason they showed up for and the only thing that matters. Style points at this time of the year are meaningless. Just win.

[bluedevilallie]

What a tale of 2 halves. Excellent job by Jabari on many fronts--he seemed to take leadership several times in the second half by rallying the troops. That's awesome. We need it. Can't wait for tomorrow. Was at at the gMe and there was a LOT of orange and Blue--so we need all the troops tomorrow to support the guys.

GO DUKE!!!

[NashvilleDevil]

I'm not just talking about today. I'm talking about a lot of our games this year. How many times have we had a comfortable lead but failed to put that final nail in the coffin? Last night, today and many other times this year. That doesn't include the games we lost this year where we led comfortably in the second half (@Notre Dame, @Clemson, @UNC, @ Wake Forest). Duke did a lot of good things in the second half. However, their FT shooting almost let them down. It just seems like there's always something that takes a good win and turns it into a less enjoyable win (stall ball, giving up easy lay ups late in the game, defense by fouling, inability to handle the press and today FT shooting). It's not just today.

Today's game was never in question even with the missed free throws. All wins should be enjoyable it is just some posters aren't satisfied unless they are complaining about something.

[Wander]

We're the best free throw shooting team in the ACC. Just a fluke today.

[richardjackson199]

Great win today Duke!

As always, Tyler Thornton played very hard today and showed tremendous heart. He is always good for 1-2 spectacular defensive plays like his clutch block of Hall last night and that momentum defensive steal today leading to a spectacular fast break. He is pretty good at hitting his wide open spot up 3. I will miss him next year, and he fills a fantastic role for our team. He embodies Duke heart for winning, hustling, playing tough defense, and playing hard.

All that said, it helped our team today when he picked up his 3rd foul. As others have noted, with about 8 minutes left in the first half, Tyler picked up his 3rd foul by reaching in after committing a turnover. That was the first time Quinn got into the game. The game was close at that point. Quinn played brilliantly. If you watch how our offense runs for those first 12 minutes with TT at the point, and then watch our offense with Quinn in the game, you will see that it runs much smoother with better chemistry with Quinn at the point. This should not be a surprise. Quinn Cook is an elite point guard with multiple skills including ability to score in multiple ways and ability to set up his teammates for very nifty assists. He played hard on the defensive end today as well. I don't fault him for Cat Barber draining a couple of shots in his face. Quinn's job there was to stay in front of Barber, and not let him blow by and feed Warren for an easy assist. If Barber is going to hit that pull-up shot, you tip your hat.

When TT was running our point, early in the game today, much of our offense consisted of one-on-one moves. One guy like Rasheed or Hood took it strong to the hoop. We kept it close at that point because State is not a great defensive team. This is not far from hero ball, and not far from explaining why our offense often stagnates for long 5+ minute scoring droughts. Today, an obvious change in our offensive chemistry and ball movement took place with Cook in the game. We also started the 2nd half today with several minutes with Cook on the bench. When Cook came in (was it after Thornton's 4th foul), our offense was more dynamic and we built our lead.

As Jason Williams also alluded to, in order for Duke (or any team) to make a deep tournament run, they will need to be led by an elite point guard. Dick Vitale says it every year, and he's right. NCAA Tourney success starts with elite guard play. Cook didn't get to play much last night against Clemson, and we almost lost. We won't win 6 in a row against elite competition like that. When Cook did play briefly last night, he was throwing some nice alley-oop assists which got us our lead.

None of this is to suggest that TT should be on the bench with Quinn running our point. None of this is a knock on TT. I like TT starting to set the tone for defensive intensity, leadership, heart, and a will to win. But Quinn, this team's elite point guard, needs to be playing major minutes leading our team for us to have a deep run this year. IMO, the best role for TT is coming into the game for huge defensive sparks and to bring some serious energy. I don't believe his best role for our team is long minutes running the point.

I fully agree with Bob Green and others that Andre Dawkins also provides a major weapon for our team. He is the best shooter on our team. I also believe he has been playing the best defense of his career this year. From what I have seen, his defense has been good overall this year. His offense has been other-worldly at times when he gets hot, which is often. He may have lower shooting percentage the last few games because he has barely played. It's hard to shoot a high percentage when your day is over after one miss. Teams are going to try to zone us going forward, and Dawkins can make that a very costly strategy. Cook and Dawkins can both shoot and score in multiple ways. Thus having them on the floor means a team cannot defend us by trying to double/triple Rodney/Jabari/Rasheed when they try to attack the hoop. Dawkins and Cook space the floor in such a way that we can be impossible to defend. Pick your poison. One guy can't stop Jabari/Hood/Rasheed. But help off Dawkins or Cook and you're down another 3 points.

Rasheed played an incredible game today. He was working so hard on both ends of the floor. He finished so many offensive drives with a tough score. He played so hard on defense. I have never seen him miss 5/6 free throws, and for an 80% FT shooter that shows fatigue. If Rasheed is tired tomorrow, Cook, Dawkins, and Jones should be fresh.

I clearly believe Cook and Dawkins should be playing much more anyway. Amile has been a stud and needs no comment. MP3 has been a very solid presence inside, and will also be crucial for our team to have a deep run. He has shown that he can really help.

This Duke team has as much or more talent than most I have seen. They have no weaknesses given all our players with their multiple skill sets. They need to trust each other, play team ball, play their proper ROLES with 100% effort, and we can win a national championship. With hero ball, long stagnant scoring droughts, poor free throw shooting, and ineffective lineups we could very easily lose in the first weekend. This season could still be one of our best ever, or a total bust and waste of amazing talent.

The last time we played Virginia marked a turning point in our season. We came out desperate for a win and played together. We won because we wanted that win more than UVA that day, and they wanted it bad. UVA wants some respect tomorrow. They want to prove they are the real ACC champion this year. Duke looked tired at the end of today's game. Vegas has Duke by 1 point. UVA plays remarkable defense, remarkable team ball, and they are deadly efficient. Duke has the capacity to be better. We have more talent, and if we want it even more than them like we did last time we played them, we should beat them. So here is some extra motivation, as if winning the real ACC Championship is not enough. With Villanova and Arizona's loss this week, if Duke wins that one game we should definitely earn a #1 seed! To win we will need to play very well. We'll need to use our depth. We'll need to trust our players in their best roles for team success. And we'll need to have fun playing Duke basketball all out just like we did the last time we beat UVA.

Go Duke!

[FerryFor50]

Today's game was never in question even with the missed free throws. All wins should be enjoyable it is just some posters aren't satisfied unless they are complaining about something.

Some people tend to inject their own game watching anxiety into the analysis of the actual game.

[devilnfla]

Today's game was never in question even with the missed free throws. All wins should be enjoyable it is just some posters aren't satisfied unless they are complaining about something.

State still had a chance to win the game at the under 2 minute mark. That's a fact and it was due to our inability to close the door, i.e. ft shooting, 5 second penalty, multiple timeouts because we couldn't break State's pressure. Things that make you shout words (your kids shouldnt hear you say) at the tv. Mickey K would have been proud. My point is, it shouldn't have been near as close as it was. If you're satisfied with it, then fine. To me, I want to see our team play with poise! Sort of like Rodney hitting those clutch ft's against Clemson last night :-)

[ricks68]

Did Coach K or anyone else make a reference to a leg or ankle, etc. injury on a possession prior to Rasheed being fouled on that 3 where he missed all 3 foul shots? To me, it looked like he went down on a play, and then appeared in pain after getting up and limping down the court. A little after that is when he got fouled attempting a 3.

I had a premonition that if he would miss all 3 foul shots because he could not stabilize his lower body properly (or whatever Greybeard might say), then he was actually injured. When he hit the front of the rim on the first attempt, I figured I was right, and that he would most likely miss the next two, also.
Unfortunately, I was correct. Freaky, I know, but now I am concerned.

Would one of our elite posters check out their recording of the game and find the place before he got fouled where I think the injury occurred and then post the clip so we can all check it out? Unfortunately, I am too computer illiterate to do it for everyone.

Thanks.

ricks

[DU82]

Did Coach K or anyone else make a reference to a leg or ankle, etc. injury on a possession prior to Rasheed being fouled on that 3 where he missed all 3 foul shots? To me, it looked like he went down on a play, and then appeared in pain after getting up and limping down the court. A little after that is when he got fouled attempting a 3.

I had a premonition that if he would miss all 3 foul shots because he could not stabilize his lower body properly (or whatever Greybeard might say), then he was actually injured. When he hit the front of the rim on the first attempt, I figured I was right, and that he would most likely miss the next two, also.
Unfortunately, I was correct. Freaky, I know, but now I am concerned.

Would one of our elite posters check out their recording of the game and find the place before he got fouled where I think the injury occurred and then post the clip so we can all check it out? Unfortunately, I am too computer illiterate to do it for everyone.

Thanks.

ricks

I made the reference to a likely injury. After missing the three free throws, at the next dead ball he came out of the game, and went right to the trainer at the end of the bench. He ultimately sat in his usual spot in the middle of the bench before re-entering the game a few minute later. Since he came back in and seemed OK, probably just a quick stinger from the foul.

[devilnfla]

Some people tend to inject their own game watching anxiety into the analysis of the actual game.

Yeah, missing a ton of free throws tend to do that for me. Seems like I remember that costing us a game against Kansas.

[jv001]

Yeah, missing a ton of free throws tend to do that for me. Seems like I remember that costing us a game against Kansas.

I think posters are saying why not enjoy every win this time of year. Any one of us can cherry pick negatives in closely played games. Players get tired both physically and mentally in one and done tournaments. Today it was evident Rasheed was injured on his three point shot and it took him a while on the bench to recover. Why not look at Quinn Cook's improved play not only today, but in yesterday's game as well. Look at Jabari's improved play today over yesterday. Look at Rodney's defense against the POY in the ACC. Look at Tyler's hustle plays, look at Amile's work on the boards. I choose to look at the good things in our wins and not our bad plays. It works for me. Beat Virginia and GoDuke!

[UrinalCake]

Mr Ice-9: Are you familiar with the Law of the Conservation of Free Throws? Last night we shot 89 percent and needed every one of them: if we shoot 75 percent, we lose. Today we had to give back some, and we shot only 52 percent. We gave back too many, but mebbe we get to use them tomorrow. :D

Kindly, Sage

Also, today we were 4-4 in the first half when the score was close. Our misses started after we already had a big lead. So while it prevented us from extending the lead, it was a good time to miss them, if there is such a thing.

[devilnfla]

I think posters are saying why not enjoy every win this time of year. Any one of us can cherry pick negatives in closely played games. Players get tired both physically and mentally in one and done tournaments. Today it was evident Rasheed was injured on his three point shot and it took him a while on the bench to recover. Why not look at Quinn Cook's improved play not only today, but in yesterday's game as well. Look at Jabari's improved play today over yesterday. Look at Rodney's defense against the POY in the ACC. Look at Tyler's hustle plays, look at Amile's work on the boards. I choose to look at the good things in our wins and not our bad plays. It works for me. Beat Virginia and GoDuke!

Yeah, I started out by saying I was happy to be playing tomorrow. My concerns are this team is not improving enough, IMO, to be a real factor in late March and early April. My concerns are that the mistakes they continue to make against much lesser teams will produce another Lehigh next week.

I love Duke and generally I'm positive about them. I just don't understand this particular team and that includes some coaching decisions.

I often wonder how much this team misses Coach Collins.

[jv001]

Yeah, I started out by saying I was happy to be playing tomorrow. My concerns are this team is not improving enough, IMO, to be a real factor in late March and early April. My concerns are that the mistakes they continue to make against much lesser teams will produce another Lehigh next week.

I love Duke and generally I'm positive about them. I just don't understand this particular team and that includes some coaching decisions.

I often wonder how much this team misses Coach Collins.

I would miss Coach Capel even more. But that's just my opinion. Both are great young coaches and even without Chris, we still have an excellent coaching staff. Beginning with the best of all(K). Beat Virginia and GoDuke!

[ricks68]

I made the reference to a likely injury. After missing the three free throws, at the next dead ball he came out of the game, and went right to the trainer at the end of the bench. He ultimately sat in his usual spot in the middle of the bench before re-entering the game a few minute later. Since he came back in and seemed OK, probably just a quick stinger from the foul.

Sorry I missed your reference. I noted, however, that the injury appeared to have occurred prior to that foul, and that it may be a little more than a "stinger". I, too, noticed that he went to the trainer, etc. (Just trying to do a little Weaux gods prevention with a preliminary strike.)

Anyone else have any info?

ricks

[daveduke76]

I amsurprised at the negative tone of some posts in a thread about a victory in the ACC tournament semi finals. I believe Duke committed four turnovers?, played fantastic defence in the second half, got great contributions from the back court, a solid contribution from Josh (seems to be a great teammate and Duke representative), solid play from the all-ACC front court, continued great play from Amile and most importantly, another post season win to advance to the Conference championship, guarantee an NCAA tournament two seed? and people are complaining? I realize everyone is different as a fan, but if you can't enjoy this one, it must be hard to be a fan.
I am very excited for tomorrow to see the team play against a very good team for a championship.

Amen brother!

[Newton_14]

Yeah, missing a ton of free throws tend to do that for me. Seems like I remember that costing us a game against Kansas.
You are still making way too much of this. Kansas was eons ago. The team percentage for the entire year (which includes the Kansas game) is 70%. Which means today was an anomally not the norm, and I certainly never felt State had a chance to win after about the 4 minute mark. They were done. TJ was dead tired and missing everything including free throws and his teammates were out of gas too. They never seriously threatened to win the game. The 5 second call was meaningless. It was 27 seconds left in the game.

[Furniture]

I made the reference to a likely injury. After missing the three free throws, at the next dead ball he came out of the game, and went right to the trainer at the end of the bench. He ultimately sat in his usual spot in the middle of the bench before re-entering the game a few minute later. Since he came back in and seemed OK, probably just a quick stinger from the foul.

I can tell you that he was clearly bothered by something when he shot those three FT's. My impression is that it was the foul, not sure if it was from something previous.

Anyway. I agree with all the praise talk about TT, Cook Jabari etc but I think folks are overlooking how much Sheeds play has improved of late and how important it has been to get us where we are!!
Take away the FT's and he was brilliant! We can't just win with JP and RH. Other people need to step up and Sheed is pretty consistently doing that lately.
I hope we can get Andre scoring again too as it could be the difference going forward and perhaps the only thing missing now......
BTW. Amile made two dunks today. I don't remember many dunks from him....

[greybeard]

Why didn't we see Andre today?

Against Clemson, Tyler had the ball up top in the late 15 seconds with I think it was Rasheed or Hood on the right wing available for a pass. Andrea was about 4 feet down toward the baseline. Instead of passing to, let's say it was, Sheed, Tyler raised a fist, Sheed set a down screen, Andrea did not come off clean/with space, but rather was forced a step or two beyond the arc at an odd angle and with no rhythm. Nevertheless, he went up and concocted what looked like a shot but wasn't.

The next opportunity, he was out of the game and never got back in.

I have been talking about the difference between feeling you are in the shot before you begin and not; the later, at least from three, is rarely going to become a shot during the shooting process. My bet is that the coaches have been working with Andrea on this issue, and K pulled the plug on him for the lapse. I think it draconian, especially since I think it was Tyler's bad to begin with.

Andrea, perhaps when he gets to serious/verbally cerebral, disconnects from the game from a feel perspective and loses perspective. I really am no fan of K's harsh reaction to this, but that shot is why Andrea is not playing.

I think it is wrong of K to exile Andrea for that mistake. I really don't like him for doing this, I mean really. Andrea has earned some slack to make these type mistakes.

I think Duke would have buried State if there was platooning. If there is platooning than on Andrea's shift he gets some slack because he is one of the two scorers on the court with team 2. If there is platooning, there is less mental fatigue for starters, which translates into missed free throws more surely than what we think of as simply physical fatigue. If there is platooning, Duke plays with greater stature, because it stands for more.

Platooning, gentlemen, makes it more about the players than the General. Platooning works. I fear we have seen the last of it and that Duke's strength is diminished, not insignificantly.

Platooning

[CDu]

Against Clemson, Tyler had the ball up top in the late 15 seconds with I think it was Rasheed or Hood on the right wing available for a pass. Andrea was about 4 feet down toward the baseline. Instead of passing to, let's say it was, Sheed, Tyler raised a fist, Sheed set a down screen, Andrea did not come off clean/with space, but rather was forced a step or two beyond the arc at an odd angle and with no rhythm. Nevertheless, he went up and concocted what looked like a shot but wasn't.

The next opportunity, he was out of the game and never got back in.

I have been talking about the difference between feeling you are in the shot before you begin and not; the later, at least from three, is rarely going to become a shot during the shooting process. My bet is that the coaches have been working with Andrea on this issue, and K pulled the plug on him for the lapse. I think it draconian, especially since I think it was Tyler's bad to begin with.

Andrea, perhaps when he gets to serious/verbally cerebral, disconnects from the game from a feel perspective and loses perspective. I really am no fan of K's harsh reaction to this, but that shot is why Andrea is not playing.

I think it is wrong of K to exile Andrea for that mistake. I really don't like him for doing this, I mean really. Andrea has earned some slack to make these type mistakes.

I think Duke would have buried State if there was platooning. If there is platooning than on Andrea's shift he gets some slack because he is one of the two scorers on the court with team 2. If there is platooning, there is less mental fatigue for starters, which translates into missed free throws more surely than what we think of as simply physical fatigue. If there is platooning, Duke plays with greater stature, because it stands for more.

Platooning, gentlemen, makes it more about the players than the General. Platooning works. I fear we have seen the last of it and that Duke's strength is diminished, not insignificantly.

Platooning

Come on, man. His name is Andre. Not Andrea. I mean, outside of Italy that isn't even a man's name!

[KandG]

Thought Tyler's foul trouble was a blessing in disguise. Quinn played well and has really improved in his ability to manage the offense when they're trying to break down the zone. As critical as I was of Quinn during the regular season, he should have had more than 12 minutes yesterday.


I thought the play where he dove for the ball then knocked it to a teammate while still on the floor is typical of Tyler's play. The kid is a warrior and a winner. I'll never understand comments like this. He graduates this year...I hope that isn't seen as a blessing in disguise too :(


I think you totally misunderstood the context of my original post in your eagerness to defend Tyler Thornton from any perceived criticism. I said it was a "blessing in disguise" in that it allowed Quinn Cook to get more playing time the day after a game where he played extremely sparingly. My comment wasn't a criticism of Tyler or intended to denigrate his "warriorness". (I still prefer to see him as a starter for now)

On the subject of being a "warrior" though, Tyler getting into early foul trouble is the one aspect of his game which occasionally drives me crazy, even though it comes from a noble impulse (the desire to go all out on defense and make a play, even when restraint is sometimes called for given the number of fouls he has).

[tommy]

Maybe this belongs in the Phase thread, but watching these first two games of the ACC Tournament, Rasheed Sulaimon has taken his game to another level. One of the big criticisms of Sheed for much of the year has been his putting his head down, driving into traffic, and losing the ball or taking and missing high degree-of-difficulty shots. But in the last stretch of the season, and in particular against Clemson and State so far in the ACC's, Rasheed has been terrific at finishing plays in the lane. Some of them have been quite difficult, but he has managed to get his body into good shooting position anyway, against strong defense, and gotten the shots to fall. We talk a lot around here about aspects of this guy's game or that guy's game that haven't improved, or how our team defense has or hasn't improved enough, etc., but I think Rasheed deserves a lot of credit for developing and improving a very important part of his game, and it adds a whole other dimension to our offense.

[roywhite]

Sorry I missed your reference. I noted, however, that the injury appeared to have occurred prior to that foul, and that it may be a little more than a "stinger". I, too, noticed that he went to the trainer, etc. (Just trying to do a little Weaux gods prevention with a preliminary strike.)




I can tell you that he was clearly bothered by something when he shot those three FT's. My impression is that it was the foul, not sure if it was from something previous.




Maybe this belongs in the Phase thread, but watching these first two games of the ACC Tournament, Rasheed Sulaimon has taken his game to another level. One of the big criticisms of Sheed for much of the year has been his putting his head down, driving into traffic, and losing the ball or taking and missing high degree-of-difficulty shots. But in the last stretch of the season, and in particular against Clemson and State so far in the ACC's, Rasheed has been terrific at finishing plays in the lane. Some of them have been quite difficult, but he has managed to get his body into good shooting position anyway, against strong defense, and gotten the shots to fall. We talk a lot around here about aspects of this guy's game or that guy's game that haven't improved, or how our team defense has or hasn't improved enough, etc., but I think Rasheed deserves a lot of credit for developing and improving a very important part of his game, and it adds a whole other dimension to our offense.


On Rasheed; no inside info, but just from being at the game and watching -- seemed to me he may have gotten bumped up, but it was mostly about some fatigue and maybe a bit of cramping. The arena was very warm, and Duke was playing a second game in 18 hours; other players looked visibly fatigued, certainly the NCSU players who were playing their third game.

To his game -- agree with Tommy's comments; he is finishing much better. He is more often utilizing the technique of cradling the ball as he moves through traffic (perhaps Kyrie's influence) and is in good position when he gets near the rim, and uses the glass well. His defense has been very good, and he has competed very well in both tournament games. Rasheed has become a warrior, a more dependable, very good player.

[Matches]

At the half time practice Dawkins missed his first few threes. Then finished with a series of straight in's.
He didn't look ill to me.....

Andre did not look to me like he was wearing a game jersey. He had a long-sleeve white tshirt on under his warmup jacket. I suspect he is either under the weather or his back problems from earlier in the season are bothering him. I wonder if his start Friday night was a test to get an early look at how well he could move around (before potentially getting stiff sitting on the bench).

[devilnfla]

The 5 second call was meaningless. It was 27 seconds left in the game.

Coach K sure didn't seem to feel that way. Poise, that's what I'm looking for in this team.

[NSDukeFan]

Andre did not look to me like he was wearing a game jersey. He had a long-sleeve white tshirt on under his warmup jacket. I suspect he is either under the weather or his back problems from earlier in the season are bothering him. I wonder if his start Friday night was a test to get an early look at how well he could move around (before potentially getting stiff sitting on the bench).

I a pretty sure we should jump to conclusions and criticize the coaching staff and/or players, since we will never know all that goes into decisions.





Do I need to put a /sarcasm note since I think the team deserves some benefit of the doubt? Obviously not criticizing Matches post, just wondering if he might be right and there may be more to the story.

[Indoor66]

TT has always been great at free throws...ever since I can remember....

Come on, man. It is only four years.... :cool:

[MCFinARL]

I a pretty sure we should jump to conclusions and criticize the coaching staff and/or players, since we will never know all that goes into decisions.





Do I need to put a /sarcasm note since I think the team deserves some benefit of the doubt? Obviously not criticizing Matches post, just wondering if he might be right and there may be more to the story.

Yes, what Matches' theory offers that no other explanation has so far is a reason for the peculiar combination of start and DNP. Andre appeared to be moving okay in his stint in the first game, but perhaps his back, or other possible problem, did not react well to the effort.

At this time of year, particularly if there is a condition that may be day to day, Coach K might be even more likely than usual to keep illness/injury cards close to the vest.

[Saratoga2]

Great win today Duke!

As always, Tyler Thornton played very hard today and showed tremendous heart. He is always good for 1-2 spectacular defensive plays like his clutch block of Hall last night and that momentum defensive steal today leading to a spectacular fast break. He is pretty good at hitting his wide open spot up 3. I will miss him next year, and he fills a fantastic role for our team. He embodies Duke heart for winning, hustling, playing tough defense, and playing hard.

All that said, it helped our team today when he picked up his 3rd foul. As others have noted, with about 8 minutes left in the first half, Tyler picked up his 3rd foul by reaching in after committing a turnover. That was the first time Quinn got into the game. The game was close at that point. Quinn played brilliantly. If you watch how our offense runs for those first 12 minutes with TT at the point, and then watch our offense with Quinn in the game, you will see that it runs much smoother with better chemistry with Quinn at the point. This should not be a surprise. Quinn Cook is an elite point guard with multiple skills including ability to score in multiple ways and ability to set up his teammates for very nifty assists. He played hard on the defensive end today as well. I don't fault him for Cat Barber draining a couple of shots in his face. Quinn's job there was to stay in front of Barber, and not let him blow by and feed Warren for an easy assist. If Barber is going to hit that pull-up shot, you tip your hat.

When TT was running our point, early in the game today, much of our offense consisted of one-on-one moves. One guy like Rasheed or Hood took it strong to the hoop. We kept it close at that point because State is not a great defensive team. This is not far from hero ball, and not far from explaining why our offense often stagnates for long 5+ minute scoring droughts. Today, an obvious change in our offensive chemistry and ball movement took place with Cook in the game. We also started the 2nd half today with several minutes with Cook on the bench. When Cook came in (was it after Thornton's 4th foul), our offense was more dynamic and we built our lead.

As Jason Williams also alluded to, in order for Duke (or any team) to make a deep tournament run, they will need to be led by an elite point guard. Dick Vitale says it every year, and he's right. NCAA Tourney success starts with elite guard play. Cook didn't get to play much last night against Clemson, and we almost lost. We won't win 6 in a row against elite competition like that. When Cook did play briefly last night, he was throwing some nice alley-oop assists which got us our lead.

None of this is to suggest that TT should be on the bench with Quinn running our point. None of this is a knock on TT. I like TT starting to set the tone for defensive intensity, leadership, heart, and a will to win. But Quinn, this team's elite point guard, needs to be playing major minutes leading our team for us to have a deep run this year. IMO, the best role for TT is coming into the game for huge defensive sparks and to bring some serious energy. I don't believe his best role for our team is long minutes running the point.

I fully agree with Bob Green and others that Andre Dawkins also provides a major weapon for our team. He is the best shooter on our team. I also believe he has been playing the best defense of his career this year. From what I have seen, his defense has been good overall this year. His offense has been other-worldly at times when he gets hot, which is often. He may have lower shooting percentage the last few games because he has barely played. It's hard to shoot a high percentage when your day is over after one miss. Teams are going to try to zone us going forward, and Dawkins can make that a very costly strategy. Cook and Dawkins can both shoot and score in multiple ways. Thus having them on the floor means a team cannot defend us by trying to double/triple Rodney/Jabari/Rasheed when they try to attack the hoop. Dawkins and Cook space the floor in such a way that we can be impossible to defend. Pick your poison. One guy can't stop Jabari/Hood/Rasheed. But help off Dawkins or Cook and you're down another 3 points.

Rasheed played an incredible game today. He was working so hard on both ends of the floor. He finished so many offensive drives with a tough score. He played so hard on defense. I have never seen him miss 5/6 free throws, and for an 80% FT shooter that shows fatigue. If Rasheed is tired tomorrow, Cook, Dawkins, and Jones should be fresh.

I clearly believe Cook and Dawkins should be playing much more anyway. Amile has been a stud and needs no comment. MP3 has been a very solid presence inside, and will also be crucial for our team to have a deep run. He has shown that he can really help.

This Duke team has as much or more talent than most I have seen. They have no weaknesses given all our players with their multiple skill sets. They need to trust each other, play team ball, play their proper ROLES with 100% effort, and we can win a national championship. With hero ball, long stagnant scoring droughts, poor free throw shooting, and ineffective lineups we could very easily lose in the first weekend. This season could still be one of our best ever, or a total bust and waste of amazing talent.

The last time we played Virginia marked a turning point in our season. We came out desperate for a win and played together. We won because we wanted that win more than UVA that day, and they wanted it bad. UVA wants some respect tomorrow. They want to prove they are the real ACC champion this year. Duke looked tired at the end of today's game. Vegas has Duke by 1 point. UVA plays remarkable defense, remarkable team ball, and they are deadly efficient. Duke has the capacity to be better. We have more talent, and if we want it even more than them like we did last time we played them, we should beat them. So here is some extra motivation, as if winning the real ACC Championship is not enough. With Villanova and Arizona's loss this week, if Duke wins that one game we should definitely earn a #1 seed! To win we will need to play very well. We'll need to use our depth. We'll need to trust our players in their best roles for team success. And we'll need to have fun playing Duke basketball all out just like we did the last time we beat UVA.

Go Duke!
This post covers most of the bases. There are those thin skinned people on the board who take praise for one player as suggesting criticism of another. Hard to see any way to do that with this post. I agree that if we can get balance with our three point shooting, Virginia will not be able to pack it in enough to totally take away our inside game. Quinn and Rodney are threats and the mystery is Andre. In the first round of the NCAA's maybe we can also see some of Semi and Josh.

[Papa John]

Coach K sure didn't seem to feel that way. Poise, that's what I'm looking for in this team.

I thought that K might have been directing his ire at the official, who began the 5-second count before our inbounder picked up the ball, and was counting two by the time he was in position ready to inbound. I thought the rule was that the count begins when the inbounder has the ball, but perhaps I'm incorrect. Anyway, I wasn't sure, based on that observation, whether K was shouting at our guys or at the officials...

(Good golly... I've had to correct this 3 times because of the doggone auto spell feature on the iPad!)

[FerryFor50]

I thought that K mig have been directing his ire at the official, who began the 5-second count before our inbounder picked up the ball, and was counting two by the time he was in position ready to inbound. I thought the rule was that the count begins when the inbounder has the ball, but perhaps I'm incorrect. Anyway, I wasn't sure, based on that observation, whether K was shouting at our guys or at the officials...

I think it was because Rodney fumbled with the ball a bit before getting in position. But I remember thinking "that was a FAST five seconds."

[pfrduke]

I think it was because Rodney fumbled with the ball a bit before getting in position. But I remember thinking "that was a FAST five seconds."

The refs have discretion to start the count before the guy picks up the ball if they feel like there is delay. But even with that, the ref seemed to blow the whistle a little before 5.

[Furniture]

Andre did not look to me like he was wearing a game jersey. He had a long-sleeve white tshirt on under his warmup jacket. I suspect he is either under the weather or his back problems from earlier in the season are bothering him. I wonder if his start Friday night was a test to get an early look at how well he could move around (before potentially getting stiff sitting on the bench).

I just watched the game again and indeed Andre was wearing a long sleeve shirt under his warm up jacket. If he is injured its a good explanation as to why he didn't play but it's not good news.
Life is definitely much easier with his points....

[davekay1971]

I thought that K might have been directing his ire at the official, who began the 5-second count before our inbounder picked up the ball, and was counting two by the time he was in position ready to inbound. I thought the rule was that the count begins when the inbounder has the ball, but perhaps I'm incorrect. Anyway, I wasn't sure, based on that observation, whether K was shouting at our guys or at the officials...

(Good golly... I've had to correct this 3 times because of the doggone auto spell feature on the iPad!)

The count begins when the official is set, rather than the inbounder. I think Coach K was ticked at the team for the lapse in focus...it's pretty clear one of his pet peeves is lack of focus when either the game seems to be in hand or when the opponent seems to be overmatched. However, I'd sampled my way through a fair amount of the Liberty Steakhouse and Brewery (High Point, NC...make sure to do the tour of the on-site brewery while you're there, Devildeac) beer menu by that point, so I can't honestly say I'm totally clear on my recollection of the direction of K's ire.

[-jk]

I thought that K might have been directing his ire at the official, who began the 5-second count before our inbounder picked up the ball, and was counting two by the time he was in position ready to inbound. I thought the rule was that the count begins when the inbounder has the ball, but perhaps I'm incorrect. Anyway, I wasn't sure, based on that observation, whether K was shouting at our guys or at the officials...

(Good golly... I've had to correct this 3 times because of the doggone auto spell feature on the iPad!)

We left the ball sitting on the end line (at our "disposal"), and the count started before the ball was picked up. K was upset because we had a TO we didn't use. The ref also had a really fast swipe/chop when counting the fifth second.

-jk

[devilnfla]

The count begins when the official is set, rather than the inbounder. I think Coach K was ticked at the team for the lapse in focus...it's pretty clear one of his pet peeves is lack of focus when either the game seems to be in hand or when the opponent seems to be overmatched. However, I'd sampled my way through a fair amount of the Liberty Steakhouse and Brewery (High Point, NC...make sure to do the tour of the on-site brewery while you're there, Devildeac) beer menu by that point, so I can't honestly say I'm totally clear on my recollection of the direction of K's ire.

Agreed, and that was my point....lack of focus or poise. Need to fix that asap.

[Wildling]

I don't know, we did almost everything right down the stretch except make free throws. That was far better than most of our closeout efforts have been recently.

Agreed. We make just a few more of those free throws, and Duke closed out the game decisively. Although, I never had a sense the win was in jeopardy. You could tell State was exhausted those last couple of minutes.

[TruBlu]

Contrast the difference in Packpride and IC.

Took a look at Packpride (to keep current on UNC's compliance department). In their post game thread for the Duke game there was hardly any carping about officials, and there was a lot of support for their team. (Along with some hand wringing as to their chances for getting into the tournament.)

Props to the Wolfpack.

[PackMan97]

Contrast the difference in Packpride and IC.

Took a look at Packpride (to keep current on UNC's compliance department). In their post game thread for the Duke game there was hardly any carping about officials, and there was a lot of support for their team. (Along with some hand wringing as to their chances for getting into the tournament.)

Props to the Wolfpack.

For the record, I blame the refs! (but that's irrelevant to the game played on Saturday). How does Jamie Luckie still have a job?

Congrats to the win, it was a good first half. Looking forward to beating Duke in the Elite Eight :)