Jabari is ACC Freshman of the Year; TJ Warren is POY

[Duvall]

They finally renamed the award! (http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/NC-State-Warren-Voted-ACC-Player-Of-The-Year_03-11-14_neqit7)

Also, Warren is the media's Player of the Year, Bennett Coach of the Year, McDaniels Defensive Player of the Year. No surprises.

[CDu]

They finally renamed the award! (http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/NC-State-Warren-Voted-ACC-Player-Of-The-Year_03-11-14_neqit7)

Also, Warren is the media's Player of the Year, Bennett Coach of the Year, McDaniels Defensive Player of the Year. No surprises.

Yeah, pretty much on target with those picks.

[Nosbleuatu]

Jabari Parker with 4 votes for defensive player of the year. I think his defense is underrated, but maybe not that much.

[sagegrouse]

I suppose there's a chance that Jabari will be 1st team AP A-A and that Warren will place below that. I suppose that will be next week.

Who would be the favorites for AP POY?

I ask this after viewing an ESPN (I think) poll a couple of weeks ago where Jabari won 46 out of 50 states in the selection of Freshman of the Year. Wiggins won Kansas; Gordon won Arizona, and two were undecided.

[Dukehky]

I suppose there's a chance that Jabari will be 1st team AP A-A and that Warren will place below that. I suppose that will be next week.

Who would be the favorites for AP POY?

I ask this after viewing an ESPN (I think) poll a couple of weeks ago where Jabari won 46 out of 50 states in the selection of Freshman of the Year. Wiggins won Kansas; Gordon won Arizona, and two were undecided.

Do you mean AP Freshman of the year? Because that is up for debate I think, but AP POY will be Dougie McBuckets, with a chance to be unanimous. I would bet Parker would finish 2nd with some first place votes because he played a tougher schedule, but McDermott is incredible.

As far as freshman of the year goes, I think Jabari wins that one, but Wiggins had a really solid year and is a better defensive player. Ultimately though, I think Jabari takes home that award.

[CDu]

I suppose there's a chance that Jabari will be 1st team AP A-A and that Warren will place below that. I suppose that will be next week.

Who would be the favorites for AP POY?

I ask this after viewing an ESPN (I think) poll a couple of weeks ago where Jabari won 46 out of 50 states in the selection of Freshman of the Year. Wiggins won Kansas; Gordon won Arizona, and two were undecided.

I think it is between Parker and McDermott for National Player of the Year. I'd have a hard time voting against McDermott. But I fully expect Parker to take a higher national honor than Warren.

Warren had the better season, but the National Player of the Year almost always goes to a star player on a top-25 team. He's just not going to get the national support for the award, even though he deserves to be in consideration.

[Dukehky]

I think it is between Parker and McDermott for National Player of the Year. I'd have a hard time voting against McDermott. But I fully expect Parker to take a higher national honor than Warren.

Warren had the better season, but the National Player of the Year almost always goes to a star player on a top-25 team. He's just not going to get the national support for the award, even though he deserves to be in consideration.

This is one of the few times when I agree with Dick Vitale "To the victor go the spoils" in terms of ACC Player of the Year. Now I'm not going to say that the winner of the regular season always has to have the POY, but you have to be above an average team in the league, IMO. In this case, that probably means Jabari would have won the award.

Last year was one of the greatest atrocities in ACC POY that I can remember. Erik Green over Shane Larkin (who should have won) or Mason? Are you kidding me? They finished last. I just feel like that award set a precedent that needs to be dismantled immediately. Warren had a great season, and he scored a ton of points at a high percentage, which makes my argument tougher in this particular case because it wasn't like he was going 2003 Iverson and jacking up 30 shots a game. I

I don't have a huge problem with Warren getting this award, but in general, I think it should go to a player who plays for a team that at least gets the double bye in the tournament.

[CDu]

This is one of the few times when I agree with Dick Vitale "To the victor go the spoils" in terms of ACC Player of the Year. Now I'm not going to say that the winner of the regular season always has to have the POY, but you have to be above an average team in the league, IMO. In this case, that probably means Jabari would have won the award.

Last year was one of the greatest atrocities in ACC POY that I can remember. Erik Green over Shane Larkin (who should have won) or Mason? Are you kidding me? They finished last. I just feel like that award set a precedent that needs to be dismantled immediately. Warren had a great season, and he scored a ton of points at a high percentage, which makes my argument tougher in this particular case because it wasn't like he was going 2003 Iverson and jacking up 30 shots a game. I

I don't have a huge problem with Warren getting this award, but in general, I think it should go to a player who plays for a team that at least gets the double bye in the tournament.

I disagree. When talking about individual awards, I don't think it's fair to penalize a player for having a bad team.

[Troublemaker]

Jabari Parker with 4 votes for defensive player of the year. I think his defense is underrated, but maybe not that much.

I think this was a function of two things:

Voters looking at his blocked shots (1.4 per game) and steals (1.0 per game)
The Duke-UNC game being fresh in their minds. Jabari did pretty well on defense in that game, culminating in a blocked shot of Paige during UNC's comeback attempt towards the end. I think at that point Vitale threw in a "Ohhhh, he's doing everything, baby!" and that was the precise moment in time when Jabari Parker received 4 votes for ACC DPOY

[Nosbleuatu]

I think this was a function of two things:

Voters looking at his blocked shots (1.4 per game) and steals (1.0 per game)
The Duke-UNC game being fresh in their minds. Jabari did pretty well on defense in that game, culminating in a blocked shot of Paige during UNC's comeback attempt towards the end. I think at that point Vitale threw in a "Ohhhh, he's doing everything, baby!" and that was the moment in time when Jabari Parker received 4 votes for ACC DPOY


I guess that makes sense. I didn't realize Dickie V got to cast that many votes. :D

[arnie]

They finally renamed the award! (http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/NC-State-Warren-Voted-ACC-Player-Of-The-Year_03-11-14_neqit7)

Also, Warren is the media's Player of the Year.

Has State announced the time of the parade for Warren or is the parade route identified?? Big happenings at State these days with their celebrated football and basketball programs.

[4Gen]

Has State announced the time of the parade for Warren or is the parade route identified?? Big happenings at State these days with their celebrated football and basketball programs.

Come on. A friend of mine's teenage son, an ardent State fan, is so happy with the selection. Jabari doesn't need it, nor I guess does TJ, but State does need it and it's fine with me.

[arnie]

Come on. A friend of mine's teenage son, an ardent State fan, is so happy with the selection. Jabari doesn't need it, nor I guess does TJ, but State does need it and it's fine with me.

We're actually on the same page. State needs something to celebrate and this is it for them. Of course, I also get comments from Pack fans that we get all the calls and don't deserve to win most games. Don't think for a second that most State fans pull for Duke. Lots of resentment has built up over the last 25+ years over our success.

[Atlanta Duke]

I suppose there's a chance that Jabari will be 1st team AP A-A and that Warren will place below that. I suppose that will be next week.

Jabari first team A-A on SI.com - first team on ballots for all 8 SI.com writers

Parker is the only freshman on this team, and with good reason: He has been the most consistent rookie -- and one of the most consistent overall players -- in college basketball this season

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140311/sports-illustrated-all-american-first-second-teams/#ixzz2vhQ23eGj

Rest of SI.com first team: Doug McDermott, Russ Smith, Shabazz Napier, and Sean Kilpatrick

[Newton_14]

We're actually on the same page. State needs something to celebrate and this is it for them. Of course, I also get comments from Pack fans that we get all the calls and don't deserve to win most games. Don't think for a second that most State fans pull for Duke. Lots of resentment has built up over the last 25+ years over our success.
While true, I have found that most of the older, long time State fans do join us in the battle against the evil empire, and actually pull for us anytime we are not playing them. With the younguns though, there is mucho hate. They hate UNC and Duke, they just hate UNC more, but make so mistake, when we are playing UNC, ALL OF THEM are pulling for Duke, whether they admit it or not.

[roywhite]

While true, I have found that most of the older, long time State fans do join us in the battle against the evil empire, and actually pull for us anytime we are not playing them. With the younguns though, there is mucho hate. They hate UNC and Duke, they just hate UNC more, but make so mistake, when we are playing UNC, ALL OF THEM are pulling for Duke, whether they admit it or not.

Yeah, Coach K's friendship and support for Jimmy V still carries some weight with many Pack fans. But Coach Valvano has been gone for over 20 years, and the younger Wolfpack fans haven't tasted much success compared to their Triangle neighbors. It's also been State fans that won't let the light blue get away with their scandalous ways.

In an unrelated note, if some of you haven't seen NC State's Centennial campus, I strongly encourage you to check it out. It's very impressive, particularly the Hunt Library (https://www.lib.ncsu.edu/huntlibrary).

To the topic of this thread, congrats to Jabari and T.J. Warren; very good choices.

[Newton_14]

Yeah, Coach K's friendship and support for Jimmy V still carries some weight with many Pack fans. But Coach Valvano has been gone for over 20 years, and the younger Wolfpack fans haven't tasted much success compared to their Triangle neighbors. It's also been State fans that won't let the light blue get away with their scandalous ways.

In an unrelated note, if some of you haven't seen NC State's Centennial campus, I strongly encourage you to check it out. It's very impressive, particularly the Hunt Library (https://www.lib.ncsu.edu/huntlibrary).

To the topic of this thread, congrats to Jabari and T.J. Warren; very good choices.

Thanks Roy. I heard Jabari on a radio interview today on The Drive on 620 AM. Man is that one impressive kid. Wise beyond his years in so many ways. Despite erratic questioning from the worlds worst sports talk radio host (Marc with a C James) Jabari was never tripped up. Not even close. Every answer was thoughtful, intellectual, and insightful. He asked Jabari about 4 different times about going pro or coming back, and he handled it well each time without giving canned answers. Two things that stood out were one, being asked who the greatest player ever out of Chicago was. After being fed multiple names by Marc, Jabari responded with Isaih Thomas even though that was not one of the names spoon fed to him. Cited the National Title and 2 NBA Titles as his reasoning. Second, when asked about what he loved about Coach K, Jabari spoke of K helping him be accountable and be a man. Mentioned that K teaches a lot like his West Point training, and finally said that K was not "media savvy" which cracked me up and confused James. Jabari did not mean K can't handle the media. He was talking about Social Media. LOL. He said he loved K because K is "old school" and does not get into tweeting and other social media like lots of other coaches and that he liked that about K.

Great interview by the ACC Rook of the Year. Let's hope he quickly adds ACC Tourney MVP to that resume!

[Edouble]

I disagree. When talking about individual awards, I don't think it's fair to penalize a player for having a bad team.

Agree completely.

I also think it's not fair to penalize a player for having a good team.

If Rodney Hood played for NC State, Warren would not be averaging 24 ppg and Parker's scoring numbers would be up.

I think Jabari got hosed. He's a First Team AA, but loses ACC POY to Warren? C'mon! (and yes, I was there for the 2002 Juan Dixon/Jason Williams thing)

I also think Jabari wins the award if he's a sophomore and not a freshman. This was we can conveniently give both players a trophy.

[vick]

By the way, how many coaches do we know the POY votes for? Larranaga (https://twitter.com/DavidTeelatDP/status/443424459656286208) voted for Brogdon as both POY and DPOY (not that surprising to me, Larranaga is an efficiency-stat guy and Brogdon is an efficiency-stat all-star, plus coaches often like best-player-best-team), and James Johnson (https://twitter.com/DavidTeelatDP/status/443468355287015424) voted Warren. Any others announce their votes?

[newclasspack]

While true, I have found that most of the older, long time State fans do join us in the battle against the evil empire, and actually pull for us anytime we are not playing them. With the younguns though, there is mucho hate. They hate UNC and Duke, they just hate UNC more, but make so mistake, when we are playing UNC, ALL OF THEM are pulling for Duke, whether they admit it or not.as one of those "youngins" I can attest to this being not entirely true.

[CDu]

as one of those "youngins" I can attest to this being not entirely true.

Yeah, I'm in my mid-30s, so I'm not sure if I still qualify as young, but two of my good friends are State guys. They certainly pull for State over Duke, but they support Duke moreso than any other non-State school. And of course they LOVE us when we play UNC.

[newclasspack]

I grew up hating TONS of baby blue players. the only duke player I can say I hated was Christian lattiener... and lets be honest he doesn't count because everyone hates him.

[Henderson]

I grew up hating TONS of baby blue players. the only duke player I can say I hated was Christian lattiener... and lets be honest he doesn't count because everyone hates him.

Um, yeah. Everyone.

But if you really are a "youngun" (say, under 30, and that's pushing it), you would have been, at most, 8 years old when Laettner graduated. If you are in the group that left college in the past 5 years, you would have been under 5 when he graduated. And let's be honest, little kids are not known for their discernment skills. Most people develop those skills eventually. But not everyone.

[newclasspack]

Um, yeah. Everyone.

But if you really are a "youngun" (say, under 30, and that's pushing it), you would have been, at most, 8 years old when Laettner graduated. If you are in the group that left college in the past 5 years, you would have been under 5 when he graduated. And let's be honest, little kids are not known for their discernment skills. Most people develop those skills eventually. But not everyone.Everyone outside of Duke obviously, but I was 4 in 92. 25 now. but I was precocious so sue me. The more I learned about Laettner growing up the less I liked. But that's besides the point all in all I grew up liking Duke. I guess that hate transferred to Maryland. And now Syracuse.

[Henderson]

Agree completely.

I also think it's not fair to penalize a player for having a good team.

If Rodney Hood played for NC State, Warren would not be averaging 24 ppg and Parker's scoring numbers would be up.


I agree that players should not be penalized for playing on a good team or bad team, but don't be so sure about Warren's and Parker's numbers if Hood played for NCSU. Moving variables make predictions like that tough. Warren might not have drawn as much defensive attention if he'd had better players around him, and Parker might have drawn more (if that's possible) without Hood.

I think Parker was the best player in the league this year, and his selection as FOTY was a no-brainer, but I can't fault the Warren pick too much.

[newclasspack]

I agree that players should not be penalized for playing on a good team or bad team, but don't be so sure about Warren's and Parker's numbers if Hood played for NCSU. Moving variables make predictions like that tough. Warren might not have drawn as much defensive attention if he'd had better players around him, and Parker might have drawn more (if that's possible) without Hood.

I think Parker was the best player in the league this year, and his selection as FOTY was a no-brainer, but I can't fault the Warren pick too much.Also, I think people think Warren is taking shots away from everyone else, when because of his efficiency he really isn't. in fact he's doing more with less. Everyone else on the team just couldn't consistently hit theirs

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Much respect to TJ Warren and congratulations on the well-deserved honor.

[superdave]

Everyone outside of Duke obviously, but I was 4 in 92. 25 now. but I was precocious so sue me. The more I learned about Laettner growing up the less I liked. But that's besides the point all in all I grew up liking Duke. I guess that hate transferred to Maryland. And now Syracuse.

Laettner is widely regarded as one of the greatest college players ever and the greatest college player in the shot clock/3-point line era. People who de-emphasize his NCAA tournament scoring record, his four Final Fours and two NCAA titles and emphasize other, less important things do so to feel better about losing to Laettner over and over.

Super "Haters" Dave

[newclasspack]

Laettner is widely regarded as one of the greatest college players ever and the greatest college player in the shot clock/3-point line era. People who de-emphasize his NCAA tournament scoring record, his four Final Fours and two NCAA titles and emphasize other, less important things do so to feel better about losing to Laettner over and over.

Super "Haters" DaveWasn't he also widely considered, idk, a jerk, to the point were he and hurly almost got into once or twice?

[superdave]

Wasn't he also widely considered, idk, a jerk, to the point were he and hurly almost got into once or twice?

I dont know that Laettner ever played with or against anyone named hurly. So I am going to say no.

[newclasspack]

I dont know that Laettner ever played with or against anyone named hurly. So I am going to say no.

You're really gonna nitpick my spelling on a name? fine. Hurley.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Wasn't he also widely considered, idk, a jerk, to the point were he and hurly almost got into once or twice?

Yup.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You're really gonna nitpick my spelling on a name? fine. Hurley.

You must be new here. We love to nitpick everything.

And welcome. :)

[Kedsy]

You're really gonna nitpick my spelling on a name? fine. Hurley.

To answer your question, he wasn't as well-liked personally as other players, but everyone respected him and followed his lead on the court.

[sagegrouse]

Laettner is widely regarded as one of the greatest college players ever and the greatest college player in the shot clock/3-point line era. People who de-emphasize his NCAA tournament scoring record, his four Final Fours and two NCAA titles and emphasize other, less important things do so to feel better about losing to Laettner over and over.

Super "Haters" Dave

Aha! My second favorite rant! In truth, Laettner is a latter-day phenomenom.

As a collegiate player, Laettner was widely liked as well as admired. He looked a choirboy and did little screaming and shouting. Plus, he played better than anyone else. Moreover, his teams won. Sure, he was despised by diehard fans of the other ACC schools -- but only because he was good!

The guy on those Duke teams who was disliked was Bobby Hurley, whose dour countenance (oooh!) made him look like he was always whining.

It began to change with Laettner afgter the Timberlake "love tap" and later when books began to come out about the Duke teams of that era. It was then generally understood that he was really a prickly character and had issues with teammates.

And, of course, Laettner actively campaigned in the last year or so to be the "most hated player." And we all voted for him 'cuz he clearly wanted it.

[Henderson]

You're really gonna nitpick my spelling on a name? fine. Hurley.

I too am against nitpicking about spelling. We all are guilty of poor typing, and I'm among the wurst.

But if I don't know how to spell something, it's a pretty good sign to me that I don't know enough about it to comment knowledgeably about it.

Christian Laettner > Any NCSU player since David Thompson. And that includes Charles Goodrich Nevitt, let alone T.J. Warren.

But it's good to have an NCSU fan here.

P.S. Was David Thompson a nice person? I dunno. And I don't care.

[newclasspack]

I too am against nitpicking about spelling. We all are guilty of poor typing, and I'm among the wurst.

But if I don't know how to spell something, it's a pretty good sign to me that I don't know enough about it to comment knowledgeably about it.

Christian Laettner > Any NCSU player since David Thompson. And that includes Charles Goodrich Nevitt, let alone T.J. Warren.

But it's good to have an NCSU fan here.

P.S. Was David Thompson a nice person? I dunno. And I don't care.I was explaining why I didn't like him. it has nothing to do with his ability on the court. People get too caught up in that. MJ was the greatest of all time to many, Still a Jerk. Larry bird is my favorite basketball player. HUGE jerk. on the court =/= off the court

[Henderson]

I was explaining why I didn't like him. it has nothing to do with his ability on the court. People get too caught up in that. MJ was the greatest of all time to many, Still a Jerk. Larry bird is my favorite basketball player. HUGE jerk. on the court =/= off the court

So you hate Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, and Christian Laettner. Got it.

Any thoughts on Wilt Chamberlin, Isiah Thomas, Bill Lambier, Kareem, Kobe, Lebron, or Julius Erving? Keep going. You're on a roll.

More on topic, how is T.J. Warren as a person? Do you know him?

[-jk]

Gently, folks...

-jk

[CDu]

So you hate Larry Bird, Michael Jordan, and Christian Laettner. Got it.

Any thoughts on Wilt Chamberlin, Isiah Thomas, Bill Lambier, Kareem, Kobe, Lebron, or Julius Erving? Keep going. You're on a roll.

More on topic, how is T.J. Warren as a person? Do you know him?

I feel the need to ask if you know Jabari Parker personally. Do you? Because in another thread you said "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" in regard to his All-American award.

If you're friends with Parker, that's fine. But otherwise, you're kind of doing the same thing as what you're chastising newclasspack for doing.

[Henderson]

I feel the need to ask if you know Jabari Parker personally. Do you? Because in another thread you said "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" in regard to his All-American award.

If you're friends with Parker, that's fine. But otherwise, you're kind of doing the same thing as what you're chastising newclasspack for doing.

That's fair. I've asked the mods to edit out my earlier comment. It wasn't called for.

I'm glad newclasspack is here and value his input.

[cato]

To answer your question, he wasn't as well-liked personally as other players, but everyone respected him and followed his lead on the court.

That's a nice gloss. I saw a screening of a documentary (produced by Grant) a little while back on the 91-92 teams. Grant had a Q&A session afterwards. The players may have respected Christian, eventually, but you could tell there was a deep well of complicated emotions about him.

So, yeah. He was a jerk. People did hate him. But he won, baby.

Frankly, I bet he was not that unusual. And he seems to have mellowed.

[superdave]

I always liked this quote from Coach K about his rival: "I like Dean. But if you want to know if we sit around and smoke cigarettes together, no, we don't do that."

We dont have to like our rivals or our teammates. But we should treat them with the respect they deserve. And if you want to throw a jab here or there, be at least a little subtle and use a little humor.

I, for one, think that coming onto a Duke board and going on about Christian Laettner being a jerk and misspelling Bobby Hurley's name brings nothing to the conversation and is disrespectful. It is nice to have a Wolfpack around and to get that perspective, but please add something meaningful to the conversation.

[newclasspack]

I always liked this quote from Coach K about his rival: "I like Dean. But if you want to know if we sit around and smoke cigarettes together, no, we don't do that."

We dont have to like our rivals or our teammates. But we should treat them with the respect they deserve. And if you want to throw a jab here or there, be at least a little subtle and use a little humor.

I, for one, think that coming onto a Duke board and going on about Christian Laettner being a jerk and misspelling Bobby Hurley's name brings nothing to the conversation and is disrespectful. It is nice to have a Wolfpack around and to get that perspective, but please add something meaningful to the conversation.Yea but you took a sidebar and ran with it. my overall point was growing up I had no disdain for Duke, and Generally liked them and their players. and that was in response to another member saying the younger generation doesn't like duke.

and is my fault because I didn't clarify. I have no feelings either way toward Laettner now other than he was an amazing college player and a pioneer at his position (big man with range and mobility). I was in-between the ages of 4- and 8 when I deveolped this emotions but I grew up.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Yea but you took a sidebar and ran with it. my overall point was growing up I had no disdain for Duke, and Generally liked them and their players. and that was in response to another member saying the younger generation doesn't like duke.

and is my fault because I didn't clarify. I have no feelings either way toward Laettner now other than he was an amazing college player and a pioneer at his position (big man with range and mobility). I was in-between the ages of 4- and 8 when id eveolped this emotions but I grew up.

And, to your credit, a Duke fan board nit-picking over name-spelling and defending the "Most Hated Player" also plays into some (possibly earned) stereotypes about Duke fans.

I for one appreciate you popping on here and speaking up. To pretend that it is shocking to suggest that Laettner was a bit of a jerk is disingenuous. I usually value the voices of other ACC fans on here, and we've had our moments with reasonable UVa fans, a few Syracuse fans, and even our Tar Heel mascot Wheat.

However, don't expect the grammar and/or spelling critiques to stop. We must maintain decorum.

[Edouble]

I feel the need to ask if you know Jabari Parker personally. Do you? Because in another thread you said "couldn't have happened to a nicer guy" in regard to his All-American award.

If you're friends with Parker, that's fine. But otherwise, you're kind of doing the same thing as what you're chastising newclasspack for doing.

Jabari made Jabari bars for the Crazies. He has been profiled as a (good, standup) person through several media outlets/magazines.

Laettner flicked off the entire LSU crowd and it's been well documented, over and over, that his teammates found him prickly.

I don't think either poster is extrapolating too much.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Jabari made Jabari bars for the Crazies. He has been profiled as a (good, standup) person through several media outlets/magazines.

Laettner flicked off the entire LSU crowd and it's been well documented, over and over, that his teammates found him prickly.

I don't think either poster is extrapolating too much.

Hammer, meet nail. This poster is right on target

Can we please move on this conversation?

Conclusions:
1) Jabari is awesome and a nice person
2) Laettner is one of the greatest college competitors of all time. And he's clutch. And awesome. But he does indeed have some "jerkish" qualities.
3) NCSU fans like NCSU better than Duke.
4) Duke fans like Duke better than NCSU.
5) Everyone hates UNC

[Newton_14]

Wasn't he also widely considered, idk, a jerk, to the point were he and hurly almost got into once or twice?

It's not that simple with Laettner. For any non-Duke fan I get the hate. White, fairly nice looking, considered soft which is hilarously offbase, won a lot, hit buzzer beating winning shots in two different NCAA tourney's, never backed down from anyone at any time, and was arrogant. (Find me any top notch player who does not have some arrogance.) Then the infamous love tap to Timberlake's stomach, which fuels 98% of the hate. Not to reopen that can of worms but you asked. Get the DVD and watch the game. Specifically watch the actions of Timberlake, especially in the several possessions leading up to the play. No one every remembers those plays but they are exactly what led to the Laettner putting the foot down into the chest of Timberlake. It was still the single dumbest thing I have ever seen a Duke pllayer do in my 40+ years of watching, but contrary to popular opinion the ref made the exact right call. I also think Laettner being perfect that night (10 of 10 from the floor, 10 of 10 from the line- 30 points) combined with hitting the impossible game winning shot also fuels the hate.

For me he will always be one of my favorite Duke plays ever. He was tough as nails, great in the clutch, and demanded that his teammates bring their best effort every time they laced them up. Yes he rode Hurley, and to be honest it helped Hurley become the star he became. He also rode Parks, but Laettner will be quick to tell you that he did nothing to those guys that Ferry didn't do to him.

One thing that can't be denied? Greatest college player of the 3 point/Shot Clock era, and if that's debateable he was certainly the best ever at winning. 4 FF, 3 Title games, 2 Titles, with 2 different sets of core players. (Though both titles came with the same core)

Edit: Now see I was way late to the party so sorry... My post and points still stand though

[Newton_14]

Yea but you took a sidebar and ran with it. my overall point was growing up I had no disdain for Duke, and Generally liked them and their players. and that was in response to another member saying the younger generation doesn't like duke.

and is my fault because I didn't clarify. I have no feelings either way toward Laettner now other than he was an amazing college player and a pioneer at his position (big man with range and mobility). I was in-between the ages of 4- and 8 when I deveolped this emotions but I grew up.

That was me and that opinion comes from both reading PackPride occasionally and attending the Duke at State game Kyle Singler's Sr year. I sat in the endzone behind the students. For two straight hours I listened to the same mantra over and over. They spent 99% of that time cursing Singler, telling him to do crude things, and calling him every name in the book. They also did the same for most of the other Duke players but Singler was tbe main target and Coach K was target 1A. What they didn't do was spend a lot of time encouraging or pulling for their players.

And hey I have pulled for State my entire life. The only time I ever pull against them is when they are playing Duke. But man that night was tough to sit through.

[Edouble]

It's not that simple with Laettner. For any non-Duke fan I get the hate. White, fairly nice looking, considered soft which is hilarously offbase, won a lot, hit buzzer beating winning shots in two different NCAA tourney's, never backed down from anyone at any time, and was arrogant. (Find me any top notch player who does not have some arrogance.) Then the infamous love tap to Timberlake's stomach, which fuels 98% of the hate. Not to reopen that can of worms but you asked. Get the DVD and watch the game. Specifically watch the actions of Timberlake, especially in the several possessions leading up to the play. No one every remembers those plays but they are exactly what led to the Laettner putting the foot down into the chest of Timberlake. It was still the single dumbest thing I have ever seen a Duke pllayer do in my 40+ years of watching, but contrary to popular opinion the ref made the exact right call. I also think Laettner being perfect that night (10 of 10 from the floor, 10 of 10 from the line- 30 points) combined with hitting the impossible game winning shot also fuels the hate.

For me he will always be one of my favorite Duke plays ever. He was tough as nails, great in the clutch, and demanded that his teammates bring their best effort every time they laced them up. Yes he rode Hurley, and to be honest it helped Hurley become the star he became. He also rode Parks, but Laettner will be quick to tell you that he did nothing to those guys that Ferry didn't do to him.

One thing that can't be denied? Greatest college player of the 3 point/Shot Clock era, and if that's debateable he was certainly the best ever at winning. 4 FF, 3 Title games, 2 Titles, with 2 different sets of core players. (Though both titles came with the same core)

Edit: Now see I was way late to the party so sorry... My post and points still stand though

I am not being snarky, but I will never "get" those as reasons to hate someone. Seriously.

I don't judge people by how they look. If someone wins a lot, more power to them. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. There will always be someone out there who is the best. Can't go hating all of them. I mean, I guess you can, but what a waste of time and energy.

You're right... those are some of the reasons people hate Laettner, but I will never "get" or relate to those reasons. They are quite shallow.

[Newton_14]

I am not being snarky, but I will never "get" those as reasons to hate someone. Seriously.

I don't judge people by how they look. If someone wins a lot, more power to them. If you want to be the best, you have to beat the best. There will always be someone out there who is the best. Can't go hating all of them. I mean, I guess you can, but what a waste of time and energy.

You're right... those are some of the reasons people hate Laettner, but I will never "get" or relate to those reasons. They are quite shallow.
Oh could not agree more. It defies common sense and logic. People are strange like that. Terrible reasons to like/dislike someone.

[nocilla]

I also think Laettner being perfect that night (10 of 10 from the floor, 10 of 10 from the line- 30 points) combined with hitting the impossible game winning shot also fuels the hate.



I would like to get in on the nitpicking love; 31 points, one of those FGs was a 3.

[newclasspack]

That was me and that opinion comes from both reading PackPride occasionally and attending the Duke at State game Kyle Singler's Sr year. I sat in the endzone behind the students. For two straight hours I listened to the same mantra over and over. They spent 99% of that time cursing Singler, telling him to do crude things, and calling him every name in the book. They also did the same for most of the other Duke players but Singler was tbe main target and Coach K was target 1A. What they didn't do was spend a lot of time encouraging or pulling for their players.

And hey I have pulled for State my entire life. The only time I ever pull against them is when they are playing Duke. But man that night was tough to sit through.as a black state fan (not many of us) I guess there is no reason for me to root against duke. Great school, clean program, best coach in college basketball (history?). I also never got called the N word in Cameron Indoor so yea there is that.

also when I say hate I mean it in the sense of sports which isn't a real hate, just strong feeling of dislike.

[Henderson]

as a black state fan (not many of us) I guess there is no reason for me to root against duke. Great school, clean program, best coach in college basketball (history?). I also never got called the N word in Cameron Indoor so yea there is that.

also when I say hate I mean it in the sense of sports which isn't a real hate, just strong feeling of dislike.

Oh, I think the feeling 'round these parts about unc-ch sports (esp. MBB) is real hate a lot of the time.

I can't say that about NCSU, and certainly not about T.J. Warren (ahem... there is a track to this thread). The closest I ever came was Norm Sloan, and that was just about the plaid sport coats. Man, I hated those coats. I can't say that about T.J. Warren or his game.

When it comes to certain strong inflammatory words, most (like "hate") should be used with care. You mentioned another that, in my view, should never be used. Glad you didn't hear it at CIS. OTOH, there's no harm in liking a player even if you haven't spent time with him. I like T.J. Warren. Good baller.

But I'm curious. Did you get called the N word at other ACC venues?

[newclasspack]

Oh, I think the feeling 'round these parts about unc-ch sports (esp. MBB) is real hate a lot of the time.

I can't say that about NCSU, and certainly not about T.J. Warren (ahem... there is a track to this thread). The closest I ever came was Norm Sloan, and that was just about the plaid sport coats. Man, I hated those coats. I can't say that about T.J. Warren or his game.

When it comes to certain strong inflammatory words, most (like "hate") should be used with care. You mentioned another that, in my view, should never be used. Glad you didn't hear it at CIS. OTOH, there's no harm in liking a player even if you haven't spent time with him. I like T.J. Warren. Good baller.

But I'm curious. Did you get called the N word at other ACC venues?Maryland. That's why I'm all but good riddance with them as a ACC school. their fan base is insufferable. which is sad. because their best player (wells) is a friend of mine but he won't be in the ACC anymore.

BTW do you guys think Jabari is the best all around freshman you've had here in a while?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Maryland. That's why I'm all but good riddance with them as a ACC school. their fan base is insufferable. which is sad. because their best player (wells) is a friend of mine but he won't be in the ACC anymore.

BTW do you guys think Jabari is the best all around freshman you've had here in a while?

If you want an exercise in amusement, go searching on this board for a thread started by someone about three weeks into the season asking if Parker was the best Duke player... (wait for it) OF ALL TIME!

Sparked some amusing debate.

Jabari is incredible, no doubt. I am holding out until the end of the year before declaring his status amongst freshmen, much less amongst all Duke players.

[cato]

BTW do you guys think Jabari is the best all around freshman you've had here in a while?

Yes -- since Grant Hill. Kyrie was spectacular, but we had just a limited window to enjoy. Jabari has been through the rollercoaster: early season success, other teams figuring him out, adjusting, dominating. The only other player since Grant that could compare would be Elton, but his foot injury held him back a bit.

As an aside, I would give up something pretty significant to watch a scrimmage between teams featuring a frosh Jabari and a soph Elton. (Although I would sure hope that Jabari had someone else on his team to check Elton in the post).

Where would you stack Warren up with recent Pack players?

[newclasspack]

Yes -- since Grant Hill. Kyrie was spectacular, but we had just a limited window to enjoy. Jabari has been through the rollercoaster: early season success, other teams figuring him out, adjusting, dominating. The only other player since Grant that could compare would be Elton, but his foot injury held him back a bit.

As an aside, I would give up something pretty significant to watch a scrimmage between teams featuring a frosh Jabari and a soph Elton. (Although I would sure hope that Jabari had someone else on his team to check Elton in the post).

Where would you stack Warren up with recent Pack players?He's the best scorer I've been alive to see though to be fair I was three when I saw Rodney Monroe light it up. you hear the phrase "he just finds a way to put the ball in the basket" but don't really appreciate it till you see a guy like warren play. Most scorers are great at getting to THEIR spots and the line. anywhere on the court Is warren spot. He hits 50% of his floater. hits 69% of his shots around the rim. and when in rhythm can knock down the outside jumper as well. and then the fact that's he's elevated every other part of his game to compliment his scoring? His rebounding, his steals, 745 points (and counting) on the season, 1170 for his career so far. the kid is just special. no other way to put it.

[daveduke76]

Whatever the hell "it" is, Jabari found it.

-Roy "Ole Huck" Williams.

Such a great quote!

[daveduke76]

That's fair. I've asked the mods to edit out my earlier comment. It wasn't called for.

I'm glad newclasspack is here and value his input.

Well done!

[jv001]

I have a very good friend that graduated from NC State. When we were younger, he actually rooted for Duke except when they played State. Of course most of those younger years, Duke was not very good. Once Coach K came to Duke and we became a force, he started changing his tune toward Duke. Now he just put's up with us. He does however remain a ABC fan. Some things never change. GoDuke!

[SoCalDukeFan]

According to DBR someone named Mike Jula of Lindy's Magazine voted for JMM for ACC Player of the Year. A ridiculous vote over Warren or Parker. He also did not put Jabari on his all rookie team. What is he allowed to vote?

"I wrote about knucklehead voters for All-ACC honors yesterday, but I refrained from naming any of the media members whose votes had me scratching my head.

But I got some new information Wednesday morning and that provoked me to out one outlandish voter.

Mike Jula of Lindy's Magazine is one of the two voters who made the ridiculous choice of James Michael McAdoo as first-team All-ACC.

That's bad enough, but it also turns out that Jula left Jabari Parker off the ACC All-Freshman team.

That double-dose of stupidity deserves recognition."

SoCal

[moonpie23]

a search on lindys site turns up NO mike jula…..any other info?

[duke96]

If you want an exercise in amusement, go searching on this board for a thread started by someone about three weeks into the season asking if Parker was the best Duke player... (wait for it) OF ALL TIME!

That's actually not true. The question was did people think Jabari would ultimately turn out to have been our most talented player. He had already demonstrated some remarkable talents. And he has subsequently continued to demonstrate and build upon them over the course of the season, as I think was fairly predictable barring injury. I think at this point it is basically beyond doubt that he is one of an extremely small group of our most talented players. Like 3, if not 2. The fact that some people were so uncomfortable even discussing this notion at that time still somewhat bewilders me. His potential was IMO already pretty obvious at that point, but I guess not everyone perceives things at the same rate.

[arnie]

According to DBR someone named Mike Jula of Lindy's Magazine voted for JMM for ACC Player of the Year. A ridiculous vote over Warren or Parker. He also did not put Jabari on his all rookie team. What is he allowed to vote?

"I wrote about knucklehead voters for All-ACC honors yesterday, but I refrained from naming any of the media members whose votes had me scratching my head.

But I got some new information Wednesday morning and that provoked me to out one outlandish voter.

Mike Jula of Lindy's Magazine is one of the two voters who made the ridiculous choice of James Michael McAdoo as first-team All-ACC.

That's bad enough, but it also turns out that Jula left Jabari Parker off the ACC All-Freshman team.

That double-dose of stupidity deserves recognition."

SoCal

Obvious, Jula is a big Heels fan. I'm surprised more of the writers didn't leave Warren/Parker off teams and add Meeks or Simmons. It ain't stupid to them if it adds to their lust of pale blue.

[Newton_14]

Obvious, Jula is a big Heels fan. I'm surprised more of the writers didn't leave Warren/Parker off teams and add Meeks or Simmons. It ain't stupid to them if it adds to their lust of pale blue.
Agree, but if he can't be any more unbiased than that, he should have his voting privileges stripped and should be reprimanded. It's unfair to the sport, the teams, and the players.

I happen to hear the pregame show on the Wolfpack radio tonight on the ride home from work. They interviewed both coaches a few minutes before the game, and asked Jim L if he was the coach that left Warren off of his 1st team All ACC and he immediately responded with No way! "TJ was definitely on my 1st team". I could be naive but I believe he is a man of his word and if he was the guy he would have owned up to it and stated his position. I will continue to believe it was Ol Roy until proven wrong.

[Henderson]

Agree, but if he can't be any more unbiased than that, he should have his voting privileges stripped and should be reprimanded. It's unfair to the sport, the teams, and the players.

I happen to hear the pregame show on the Wolfpack radio tonight on the ride home from work. They interviewed both coaches a few minutes before the game, and asked Jim L if he was the coach that left Warren off of his 1st team All ACC and he immediately responded with No way! "TJ was definitely on my 1st team". I could be naive but I believe he is a man of his word and if he was the guy he would have owned up to it and stated his position. I will continue to believe it was Ol Roy until proven wrong.

Mike Jula? Is there such a voter for ACC teams? Is there someone by that name at Lindy's? Is there even such a person? Other than the real estate agent in Lansdale, PA?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

That's actually not true. The question was did people think Jabari would ultimately turn out to have been our most talented player. He had already demonstrated some remarkable talents. And he has subsequently continued to demonstrate and build upon them over the course of the season, as I think was fairly predictable barring injury. I think at this point it is basically beyond doubt that he is one of an extremely small group of our most talented players. Like 3, if not 2. The fact that some people were so uncomfortable even discussing this notion at that time still somewhat bewilders me. His potential was IMO already pretty obvious at that point, but I guess not everyone perceives things at the same rate.

Well, my point for our Wolfpack friend was that it was an entertaining thread with strong feelings on both sides, not that the premise of it was absurd.

At any rate, yes, Jabari is an phenomenal talent.

[newclasspack]

Agree, but if he can't be any more unbiased than that, he should have his voting privileges stripped and should be reprimanded. It's unfair to the sport, the teams, and the players.

I happen to hear the pregame show on the Wolfpack radio tonight on the ride home from work. They interviewed both coaches a few minutes before the game, and asked Jim L if he was the coach that left Warren off of his 1st team All ACC and he immediately responded with No way! "TJ was definitely on my 1st team". I could be naive but I believe he is a man of his word and if he was the guy he would have owned up to it and stated his position. I will continue to believe it was Ol Roy until proven wrong.Something tells me it was Boheim actually.