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roywhite
03-10-2014, 06:17 PM
Not only does time of year bring tournaments and awards, it also signals the beginning of a series of coaching changes.

We can start this one off with a familiar name, as Appalachian State has apparently fired Jason Capel (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/443124299596312576)

FerryFor50
03-10-2014, 06:52 PM
Makes sense. Between the Devonte Graham NLI issue and the fact that his teams get worse every year, it was time to go...

devonte graham issue (http://friarbasketball.com/2014/02/06/update-devonte-graham-pc)

Jason Capel's Wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Capel)

hurleyfor3
03-10-2014, 07:29 PM
Jeff was bet-ter, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap

throatybeard
03-10-2014, 07:56 PM
I had forgotten that Buzz Peterson did two stints at Appalachian State.

OldPhiKap
03-10-2014, 09:20 PM
I had forgotten that Buzz Peterson did two stints at Appalachian State.

I wonder what he recidivism rate is there.

roywhite
03-11-2014, 10:31 PM
Another former Tarheel player gets bounced.

UNCW terminates contract of basketball coach Buzz Peterson (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20140311/ARTICLES/140319929/1177?Title=UNCW-terminates-basketball-coach-Buzz-Peterson)

Throaty and OPK put a hex on him?

Dev11
03-11-2014, 10:38 PM
Jeff was bet-ter, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap

Well, Jeff has also been fired once from a head coaching gig. Granted, his was slightly higher profile.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-12-2014, 09:41 AM
Another former Tarheel player gets bounced.

UNCW terminates contract of basketball coach Buzz Peterson (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20140311/ARTICLES/140319929/1177?Title=UNCW-terminates-basketball-coach-Buzz-Peterson)

Throaty and OPK put a hex on him?

Of local interest here, Eddie Biedenbach who coached UNCA to several NCAA Tournaments (including the game against Syracuse in the first round where they got TOTALLY hosed (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBJ-MVn4vug)) left last year to go be Peterson's assistant at UNCW. The move surprised a lot of folks in the area - he had built the UNC-Asheville program up quite nicely and seemed to be making a lateral move at best.

Anyways, he is now the "interim" head coach. Will be very interested to see what he ends up doing. He was buddies with Buzz, and I don't know if he will be asked to step up and I have no idea if he would take it if offered. If he moves on, I'm curious to see where he might land.

TruBlu
03-12-2014, 11:07 AM
Not only does time of year bring tournaments and awards, it also signals the beginning of a series of coaching changes.

We can start this one off with a familiar name, as Appalachian State has apparently fired Jason Capel (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/443124299596312576)

Possibly Ole Roy can get a promotion to the ASU job, and be closer to his childhood home. He might have to adapt to a more serious academic environment, however.:)

Henderson
03-12-2014, 11:21 AM
Let me make this clear: Stanford does not belong on the carousel.

OldPhiKap
03-12-2014, 11:57 AM
Another former Tarheel player gets bounced.

UNCW terminates contract of basketball coach Buzz Peterson (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20140311/ARTICLES/140319929/1177?Title=UNCW-terminates-basketball-coach-Buzz-Peterson)

Throaty and OPK put a hex on him?

I guess I shouldn't have started that "Look, Peterson is going to keep his job" thread.

My bad, Buzz.

throatybeard
03-12-2014, 12:47 PM
Another former Tarheel player gets bounced.

UNCW terminates contract of basketball coach Buzz Peterson (http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20140311/ARTICLES/140319929/1177?Title=UNCW-terminates-basketball-coach-Buzz-Peterson)

Throaty and OPK put a hex on him?

You're surprised? I killed poor old Herbert Lom.

OldPhiKap
03-12-2014, 02:22 PM
You're surprised? I killed poor old Herbert Lom.

And until that time, every day in every way, he was getting better and better.

OldPhiKap
03-12-2014, 07:19 PM
You're surprised? I killed poor old Herbert Lom.

This is how throaty did it (the removable throaty beard was genius):

http://youtu.be/s66VNF5-624

duke09hms
03-12-2014, 08:48 PM
Let me make this clear: Stanford does not belong on the carousel.

Why not? They are on the good side of the bubble right now, but probably need a win in the PAC-12 tournament to guarantee a tourney bid. And Dawkins probably needs to win the first round NCAA tournament game to guarantee his job security.

They made the tournament 13 of the 14 years before Dawkins got there, and taking over a team coming off a Sweet 16, he's never gone to the tournament in his 5+ years there.

Cameron
03-13-2014, 12:07 AM
DePaul (12-20, 3-15) ousts Georgetown in the first round of the Big East tournament, throwing a dart in the Hoyas' NCAA bubble and all but ensuring that JTIII will be taking his Dad's team to the NIT for the second time in six years. A mildly big deal if it were 1948.

At what juncture is "Dad coached team" not convincing enough an argument to justify keeping Little John around as CEO of one of college basketball's most historically great programs? Since making a run to the Final Four in 2007, Georgetown has not advanced beyond the second round of the NCAA tournament (and lost in the first round of the 2009 NIT). This despite entering the NCAA field twice as a two seed and twice as a three seed. I believe that Georgetown is a top ten all-time program and worthy of more success than that. Georgetown evidently disagrees.

The similarities between Georgetown and DuKe as small, prestigious private schools with elite basketball programs with stringent academic standards might make Steve Wojciechowski an appealing candidate, should a change of power ever happen (i.e. when Big John dies).

hurleyfor3
03-13-2014, 12:26 AM
At what juncture is "Dad coached team" not convincing enough an argument to justify keeping Little John around as CEO of one of college basketball's most historically great programs?

Funny how DePaul was once in just this spot. Their solution was to quit caring about basketball.

Cameron
03-13-2014, 12:43 AM
Funny how DePaul was once in just this spot. Their solution was to quit caring about basketball.

Thanks for the laugh. Good call. A quick glance shows it took the great Ray Meyer's son more than a dozen years and a 3-23 record to finally force DePaul to cut ties with the family and unofficially retire from competitive hoops.

For the sake of Hoya fans, hopefully Georgetown's standards are slightly higher. Some people hate the argument that it's good for the game when certain teams are good, but I am a big believer of it. I personally find college basketball even more intriguing when the historic powers are competitive.

hurleyfor3
03-13-2014, 12:58 AM
For the sake of Hoya fans, hopefully Georgetown's standards are slightly higher. Some people hate the argument that it's good for the game when certain teams are good, but I am a big believer of it. I personally find college basketball even more intriguing when the historic powers are competitive.

I've said this before, but when DePaul faded in prominence, it left a hole in Chicago sports that has never been filled. Chicago doesn't have a good nearby college program that it can call its own. The Big Ten schools don't count, and if Northwestern ever got good I think it would only have a fanbase similar to Duke's in NC -- that is, mostly alumni. Or put another way, if it's the middle of January and you want to see a decent local team, you're SOL.

tommy
03-13-2014, 01:07 AM
DePaul (12-20, 3-15) ousts Georgetown in the first round of the Big East tournament, throwing a dart in the Hoyas' NCAA bubble and all but ensuring that JTIII will be taking his Dad's team to the NIT for the second time in six years. A mildly big deal if it were 1948.

At what juncture is "Dad coached team" not convincing enough an argument to justify keeping Little John around as CEO of one of college basketball's most historically great programs? Since making a run to the Final Four in 2007, Georgetown has not advanced beyond the second round of the NCAA tournament (and lost in the first round of the 2009 NIT). This despite entering the NCAA field twice as a two seed and twice as a three seed. I believe that Georgetown is a top ten all-time program and worthy of more success than that. Georgetown evidently disagrees.

The similarities between Georgetown and DuKe as small, prestigious private schools with elite basketball programs with stringent academic standards might make Steve Wojciechowski an appealing candidate, should a change of power ever happen (i.e. when Big John dies).

Except Georgetown is a school that develops big men, remember? :D

Cameron
03-13-2014, 01:48 AM
I've said this before, but when DePaul faded in prominence, it left a hole in Chicago sports that has never been filled. Chicago doesn't have a good nearby college program that it can call its own. The Big Ten schools don't count, and if Northwestern ever got good I think it would only have a fanbase similar to Duke's in NC -- that is, mostly alumni. Or put another way, if it's the middle of January and you want to see a decent local team, you're SOL.

Houston and St. John's are similar cases in that they were once among the game's traditional heavyweights and also the most dominant programs in their respective cities. The Johnnies have fared the best of all three over the last 20 years, reaching fleeting national success at the turn of the century with Mike Jarvis at the helm and experiencing a mild resurgence -- at least in terms of exposure and recruiting -- under Steve Lavin. But overall, none of the three programs has ever come close to reclaiming its past glory.

While the obvious common denominator among the three teams is that each began its slide from national relevance upon the retirement of a legendary coach (Ray Meyer at DePaul, Guy Lewis at Houston and Louie Carnesecca at St. John's), it's still odd that at least some measure of success couldn't be sustained moving forward as each school possesses not only tremendous history but also a great city to attract high-profile recruits. Anyway, I've just always found it strange that these once celebrated hoops schools have become pretty much extinct.


Except Georgetown is a school that develops big men, remember? :D

Good point. I imagine Georgetown has pretty strict height requirements for anybody hired to work with post players (e.g. must be over six feet). So that sucks for Wojo.

roywhite
03-13-2014, 06:12 AM
Auburn fires 4th year coach Tony Barbee (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/sec/2014/03/12/college-basketball-auburn-tigers-fire-coach-tony-barbee/6355023/)

Jeff Capel a possible candidate?
Bruce Pearl?

Henderson
03-13-2014, 09:51 AM
Auburn fires 4th year coach Tony Barbee (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/sec/2014/03/12/college-basketball-auburn-tigers-fire-coach-tony-barbee/6355023/)

Jeff Capel a possible candidate?
Bruce Pearl?

I hope Jeff Capel isn't a candidate. I say stay away from any school that Alabama fans look down upon as being made up mostly of stupid rednecks. I taught graduate school in Birmingham for 2 years, and Auburn alums think Alabama is a snooty elitist institution.

BD80
03-13-2014, 12:57 PM
... I believe that Georgetown is a top ten all-time program ...

Duke, UCLA, unc, uk, KU ...

Indiana, Ohio State ...

Louisville, Michigan, Michigan State, NCState ...

Cincinnati, San Francisco ..

Florida, uCon ...

Then the group of Syracuse, Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, Maryland, Arizona, UNLV

then St John's, Virginia, Purdue, Illinois, Arkansas

sporthenry
03-13-2014, 01:08 PM
Duke, UCLA, unc, uk, KU ...

Indiana, Ohio State ...

Louisville, Michigan, Michigan State, NCState ...

Cincinnati, San Francisco ..

Florida, uCon ...

Then the group of Syracuse, Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, Maryland, Arizona, UNLV

then St John's, Virginia, Purdue, Illinois, Arkansas

I'm not a historian, but not sure how Florida is ahead of Georgetown. Florida has 2 titles to Georgetown's 1. But Georgetown has been to 5 F4 to Florida's 4. Been to the NCAAT quite a few more times.

OldPhiKap
03-13-2014, 01:10 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_basketball

G'Town won their league in 1939, and went to the NCAA's in 1943. It was not until the late 1970's and early 1980's that they did anything again.

G'Town has been a very good program for the last 35 years. But it is a stretch to say that they are one of the ten best of all times.

Cameron
03-13-2014, 01:13 PM
Duke, UCLA, unc, uk, KU ...

Indiana, Ohio State ...

Louisville, Michigan, Michigan State, NCState ...

Cincinnati, San Francisco ..

Florida, uCon ...

Then the group of Syracuse, Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, Maryland, Arizona, UNLV

then St John's, Virginia, Purdue, Illinois, Arkansas

It's a subjective argument, but my top ten list of the all-time greatest basketball traditions, in no particular order, would go something like...

Kentucky
Duke
UCLA
North Carolina
Indiana
Kansas
Connecticut
Arizona
Georgetown
Louisville

Right there (and arguably interchangeable with a couple of teams above): Syracuse, Michigan State, Cincinnati, Ohio State, St. John's, Arkansas, N.C. State, Maryland, Michigan, UNLV and several others.

There is then another category entirely for the once great programs that are now essentially extinct: DePaul, San Francisco, Houston, etc.

Florida has only been good for the last 15 years, so I can't include them. I think a team must be relevant on a national scale for at least a quarter-century as well as maintain at least some measure of success over the course of time in order to make a top ten list such as this (this is why I would exclude teams like Houston or San Fran).

Cameron
03-13-2014, 01:34 PM
Temple and Villanova are two programs that are also in that next tier (after schools like Syracuse, Michigan State, Cincinnati, Arkansas, etc.) of all-time great programs, though Temple has really started to fall off the map in the post-John Chaney era and is slowly fading into that Houston and DePaul territory.

The Owls are one program in particular that I hope can right the ship and reclaim their position as a hoops power at some point in the near future, because I always admired John Chaney and the work he did at that school. At one time, Temple, from the little Atlantic 10, was as big a basketball power as there was anywhere.

devildeac
03-13-2014, 01:43 PM
Duke, UCLA, unc, uk, KU ...

Indiana, Ohio State ...

Louisville, Michigan, Michigan State, NCState ...

Cincinnati, San Francisco ..

Florida, uCon ...

Then the group of Syracuse, Marquette, DePaul, Georgetown, Maryland, Arizona, UNLV

then St John's, Virginia, Purdue, Illinois, Arkansas

Here's the list (not including current season):


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_teams_with_the_most_victories_in_NCAA_Divi sion_I_men%27s_college_basketball

Johnnies were #7 all-time wins after the 2012-13 season. Still pretty impressive.

Assorted pastry, danish, breads and rolls banners not included.

Mal
03-13-2014, 04:22 PM
I've said this before, but when DePaul faded in prominence, it left a hole in Chicago sports that has never been filled. Chicago doesn't have a good nearby college program that it can call its own. The Big Ten schools don't count, and if Northwestern ever got good I think it would only have a fanbase similar to Duke's in NC -- that is, mostly alumni. Or put another way, if it's the middle of January and you want to see a decent local team, you're SOL.

I wasn't here in the mid-'80's, but it always struck me as more anomalous that DePaul was ever a power than that they faded into obscurity.

I don't think that hole's likely to ever be filled, at least not in our lifetimes. For one, as I'm sure you'll agree, it's primarily a professional sports town. People moved on to Michael Jordan pretty quickly. Television has 850 games a week on tap, so there's no need to go see a decent local team, even if they exist. DePaul's facilities are pathetic, and they don't even play anywhere near campus. But most importantly, recruiting has just changed so significantly over the last 30 years. It's impossible to get a collection of top players from one city to stay in town anymore. Everyone from UCLA to Duke to Kentucky has them on their radars from the age of 14 now, and don't have to make a special trip just to meet them due to all the tournaments. They're playing on AAU and all-star teams with kids from other towns and forming friendships there, too. No one stays around an institution for as long as Ray Meyer these days, so it's very difficult to build any local, non-alum fanbase without continuity or being seen as a stepping stone. DePaul was able for awhile to overcome its competitive disadvantages, primarily due to Meyer's cultivation of relationships with every high school coach in Illinois over 40+ years there. Those disadvantages have just grown nearly insurmountable over time, though. Even for the great Pat Kennedy. [sad trombone]

Nowadays, if you want to be a smallish school in an urban environment with a lot of other attractions that succeeds in big time basketball, you need to, among other things, dump a bunch of money into a modern arena. DePaul's not going to do that (and doesn't have anywhere to do it - they should have bought 6 acres somewhere along the Clybourn corridor when they had the chance 25 years ago). I'm no genius, but I thought Oliver Purnell was insane to take that job, and it looks like he may need to start looking again soon.

All that said, the implosion of the Big East is probably a good thing for DePaul basketball generally. Now they're back in a mid-major with the ability to break through every once in awhile and rack up a NCAAT appearance here and there, instead of being guaranteed a base of 8 or 9 conference losses every season.

roywhite
03-13-2014, 05:48 PM
I wasn't here in the mid-'80's, but it always struck me as more anomalous that DePaul was ever a power than that they faded into obscurity.



Well, they had Ray Meyer as coach for 43 years and 724 wins.

Ray Meyer wiki bio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Meyer)

As I recall, the guy was a really good coach for a long time in relative obscurity, and then in the mid-70's, he put together some good teams, became a popular national figure in the media, and began to get some of the best talent in Chicago-land. They had a real nice run, and some initial success when Ray's son took over, but it didn't last.

I think it's still possible for a mid-major school to catch fire and have great success; it helps if they are located in a good area for talent. Recent examples include St. Joseph's in Philadelphia and Butler in Indianapolis. The really hard thing for this type program is sustaining excellence.

Henderson
03-13-2014, 06:46 PM
Why not? They are on the good side of the bubble right now, but probably need a win in the PAC-12 tournament to guarantee a tourney bid. And Dawkins probably needs to win the first round NCAA tournament game to guarantee his job security.

They made the tournament 13 of the 14 years before Dawkins got there, and taking over a team coming off a Sweet 16, he's never gone to the tournament in his 5+ years there.

Trent Johnson (11-23 at TCU this year) left Dawkins with zero pipeline. Zippo. IIRC JD was reduced to playing a walk on and Santa Clara transfer early on. So give him a break for the first few years considering what he inherited. And then consider these facts:

1. In the past five years, Stanford has finished 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, and tied for 3rd in the Pac-12 regular season. Think trajectory.
2. They won the NIT in 2012.
3. They are 119-80 under J.D.
4. They won 20 games this year (so far), including wins over UConn, Oregon, and UCLA. RPI of 46, 4-4 against top 50 teams and no losses to teams with an RPI outside the top 100.
5. Two players this year are all Pac-12.
6. He's got good recruits coming in, including Reid Travis (whom we wanted) next year.

Not bad, but not great. Stanford's AD, Bernard Muir, wants more. That's clear. At the start of the year, he made clear that he wanted Stanford to compete for a Pac-12 title and go to the NCAAT. Stanford was T-3 in the Pac-12, and they have a big game against ASU tonight. If Stanford doesn't make the NCAA tourney, J.D. is toast and doesn't deserve it. If Stanford makes the NCAA tourney and loses in the first round, J.D. might be toast and surely doesn't deserve it. But attendance at Stanford games is down 30% in Dawkins' tenure, and that equates to alumni $$$. Muir and alumni donations are the issue at this point, not Johnny Dawkins.

My point: If J.D. gets fired this year, he doesn't deserve it.

But think about this: Let's assume that Muir is the impatient SOB he might be and fires J.D. after this season. Does J.D. come back to Duke next year? Does Reid Travis come with him?

sagegrouse
03-13-2014, 07:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgetown_basketball

G'Town won their league in 1939, and went to the NCAA's in 1943. It was not until the late 1970's and early 1980's that they did anything again.

G'Town has been a very good program for the last 35 years. But it is a stretch to say that they are one of the ten best of all times.

When Big Jawn was hired from St. Anthony's HS, the Georgetown President, Father Henle, advised him that it would be good if G'town made the NIT every few years. It is true that big-time Georgetown hoops only started with John Thompson Jr.

Des Esseintes
03-13-2014, 07:01 PM
Trent Johnson (11-23 at TCU this year) left Dawkins with zero pipeline. Zippo. IIRC JD was reduced to playing a walk on and Santa Clara transfer early on. So give him a break for the first few years considering what he inherited. And then consider these facts:

1. In the past five years, Stanford has finished 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, and tied for 3rd in the Pac-12 regular season. Think trajectory.
2. They won the NIT in 2012.
3. They are 119-80 under J.D.
4. They won 20 games this year (so far), including wins over UConn, Oregon, and UCLA. RPI of 46, 4-4 against top 50 teams and no losses to teams with an RPI outside the top 100.
5. Two players this year are all Pac-12.
6. He's got good recruits coming in, including Reid Travis (whom we wanted) next year.

Not bad, but not great. Stanford's AD, Bernard Muir, wants more. That's clear. At the start of the year, he made clear that he wanted Stanford to compete for a Pac-12 title and go to the NCAAT. Stanford was T-3 in the Pac-12, and they have a big game against ASU tonight. If Stanford doesn't make the NCAA tourney, J.D. is toast and doesn't deserve it. If Stanford makes the NCAA tourney and loses in the first round, J.D. might be toast and surely doesn't deserve it. But attendance at Stanford games is down 30% in Dawkins' tenure, and that equates to alumni $$$. Muir and alumni donations are the issue at this point, not Johnny Dawkins.

My point: If J.D. gets fired this year, he doesn't deserve it.

But think about this: Let's assume that Muir is the impatient SOB he might be and fires J.D. after this season. Does J.D. come back to Duke next year? Does Reid Travis come with him?
I hear all that, but Dawkins has had time. Stanford can reasonably expect better performance than it has gotten the past few seasons under him. The bareness of the roster left behind by Johnson is counterbalanced by the exceptional weakness of the Pac-12 during this period. Even accounting for the lack of on-hand talent, Stanford could have shown better against such lousy competition. Likewise, while it's true the team has played better this year than in previous campaigns, it also is an incredibly veteran squad. Next year's team, equipped though it may be with good recruits, will be hard-pressed to perform better since so much is being lost. I think it would be very hard to criticize Stanford if at this point the AD goes in a different direction. I'm not saying Johnny Dawkins should be fired, but I certainly will not argue with any Stanford fan who feels otherwise.

Cameron
03-13-2014, 07:18 PM
When Big Jawn was hired from St. Anthony's HS, the Georgetown President, Father Henle, advised him that it would be good if G'town made the NIT every few years. It is true that big-time Georgetown hoops only started with John Thompson Jr.

Which makes Georgetown's place in the discussion of the 10 (or, at worst, 15) greatest college basketball traditions ever all the more impressive.

Georgetown hoops evolved into a national power almost four decades ago. That's actually quite a long time. Florida, conversely, has only been really good on a national scale for about 15 or 16 years. The Gators did reach a Final Four in 1994 under Lon Kruger, but it wasn't until the turn of the century that Billy Donovan really ignited the national championship level program that it is today.

Newton_14
03-13-2014, 07:44 PM
I hear all that, but Dawkins has had time. Stanford can reasonably expect better performance than it has gotten the past few seasons under him. The bareness of the roster left behind by Johnson is counterbalanced by the exceptional weakness of the Pac-12 during this period. Even accounting for the lack of on-hand talent, Stanford could have shown better against such lousy competition. Likewise, while it's true the team has played better this year than in previous campaigns, it also is an incredibly veteran squad. Next year's team, equipped though it may be with good recruits, will be hard-pressed to perform better since so much is being lost. I think it would be very hard to criticize Stanford if at this point the AD goes in a different direction. I'm not saying Johnny Dawkins should be fired, but I certainly will not argue with any Stanford fan who feels otherwise.
Well in fairness, and in addition to all the points the OP made, Stanford has had a ton of injuries the last 3 years. Hard to achieve all your goals when several of your best players are sitting there as assistant coaches rather than on the floor helping you win. I would like to see how JD does with a few fully healthy and talented teams in a row.

Indoor66
03-13-2014, 08:25 PM
Well in fairness, and in addition to all the points the OP made, Stanford has had a ton of injuries the last 3 years. Hard to achieve all your goals when several of your best players are sitting there as assistant coaches rather than on the floor helping you win. I would like to see how JD does with a few fully healthy and talented teams in a row.

Kinda sounds like the Duke Women's team. :mad:

duke09hms
03-13-2014, 08:33 PM
Well in fairness, and in addition to all the points the OP made, Stanford has had a ton of injuries the last 3 years. Hard to achieve all your goals when several of your best players are sitting there as assistant coaches rather than on the floor helping you win. I would like to see how JD does with a few fully healthy and talented teams in a row.

5 years is more than enough time to make the NCAA tournament especially at a school like Stanford. It's not like we're talking about Duke football here. The Pac-12 has been a very weak conference the last few years with only Arizona having any real relevance.

It's not alumni donations either. Stanford's more than raking in the dough especially given their football success. It's about on-court performance. If Dawkins had gotten fired last year, he would not have gotten a raw deal.

They should make the tournament this year, but he'd likely have to win at least 1 game to feel safe about his job. 5 of his 8-man rotation are seniors, including their best player and future NBA draft pick Dwight Powell. And in his 6 years, they've been 9th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, and 6th in the weak Pac-12. For a school with a tradition of athletic/basketball excellence and all the resources in the world, that's probably not good enough.

jv001
03-14-2014, 07:01 AM
5 years is more than enough time to make the NCAA tournament especially at a school like Stanford. It's not like we're talking about Duke football here. The Pac-12 has been a very weak conference the last few years with only Arizona having any real relevance.

It's not alumni donations either. Stanford's more than raking in the dough especially given their football success. It's about on-court performance. If Dawkins had gotten fired last year, he would not have gotten a raw deal.

They should make the tournament this year, but he'd likely have to win at least 1 game to feel safe about his job. 5 of his 8-man rotation are seniors, including their best player and future NBA draft pick Dwight Powell. And in his 6 years, they've been 9th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 6th, and 6th in the weak Pac-12. For a school with a tradition of athletic/basketball excellence and all the resources in the world, that's probably not good enough.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong because I don't see many of Stanford's games. I know there have been injuries to some of his better players but do you think Johnny's not a good coach or is he not getting enough from his players. In other words, are they under performing or is it a lack of recruiting? I'd like to know. Dawkins is one of my all time favorites to play at Duke. Not just because he was a great player(he was) but because he seemed to be a very nice guy in the times I've been blessed to meet him. Beat Clemson and GoDuke!

wsb3
03-14-2014, 07:43 AM
I was surprised that Buzz was fired. Not because his performance did not warrant it but UNCW has a history of being cheap in paying coaches. They paid Buzz more than double of those before him that include Brad Brownell who left for Wright State and was good enough to be an ACC coach but evidently not good enough for the powers to be here at UNCW. The shocking part for me is that they are going to eat this money on his contract and pay another coach at the same time.

I liked it when UNCW was relevant and made the NCAA tourney and even won a game. They should have beat Maryland but for a lucky 3 in 2003 at the buzzer ruined that. This is a beautiful area and while they can't pay the big bucks if they found the right fit my hope is that you have a situation like at Davidson where a coach loves the area and chooses not to chase the more lucrative jobs.

I am a diehard Duke fan but I sure would like to see UNCW be relevant again.

jv001
03-14-2014, 08:16 AM
I was surprised that Buzz was fired. Not because his performance did not warrant it but UNCW has a history of being cheap in paying coaches. They paid Buzz more than double of those before him that include Brad Brownell who left for Wright State and was good enough to be an ACC coach but evidently not good enough for the powers to be here at UNCW. The shocking part for me is that they are going to eat this money on his contract and pay another coach at the same time.

I liked it when UNCW was relevant and made the NCAA tourney and even won a game. They should have beat Maryland but for a lucky 3 in 2003 at the buzzer ruined that. This is a beautiful area and while they can't pay the big bucks if they found the right fit my hope is that you have a situation like at Davidson where a coach loves the area and chooses not to chase the more lucrative jobs.

I am a diehard Duke fan but I sure would like to see UNCW be relevant again.

The Wilmington/Carolina Beach area is a beautiful area. Some nice golf courses there. I would like to see UNCW get a good coach and keep him. They let a good one get away in Brownwell. Maybe they get a good young guy to get the program going again. Beat Clemson and GoDuke!

Henderson
03-14-2014, 10:40 AM
The Wilmington/Carolina Beach area is a beautiful area. Some nice golf courses there. I would like to see UNCW get a good coach and keep him. They let a good one get away in Brownwell. Maybe they get a good young guy to get the program going again. Beat Clemson and GoDuke!

Agreed about how nice it is, but it's a tough place to recruit to, both coaches and players, because it's a little isolated and not so easy to get into and out of. 2 hours to RDU. 3 ˝ to Charlotte. 5 ˝ hours to DC; 6 hours to Atlanta. There are daily non stops to DC and NYC directly from Wilmington, but still. If it were in a major conference with higher visibility, that'd be different.

Still, it's gotta be an intriguing job with very little downside (other than failing at UNCW, which wouldn't bolster anyone's credentials).

I wonder if there are any Duke assistants or alums who might be interested. It'd be great to have another team in NC for UNC-CH fans to hate and another NC team to kinda cheer for.

wsb3
03-14-2014, 12:18 PM
I agree with what you posted about the isolation but I would think the Atlantic Ocean is a nice piece of scenery to show a recruit. The campus itself is ascetically pleasing as well, in many ways.

Buzz must have been one heck of a salesman because they would not pay Jerry Wainright or any of the previous coaches and something was amiss during the years with the athletic department as coaches left like Brad for a side ways move. But for him they opened the vault. People did not understand the decision to hire Buzz then at that salary and even less understand it in hindsight.

Jim3k
03-14-2014, 11:54 PM
I agree with what you posted about the isolation but I would think the Atlantic Ocean is a nice piece of scenery to show a recruit. The campus itself is ascetically pleasing as well, in many ways.

Buzz must have been one heck of a salesman because they would not pay Jerry Wainright or any of the previous coaches and something was amiss during the years with the athletic department as coaches left like Brad for a side ways move. But for him they opened the vault. People did not understand the decision to hire Buzz then at that salary and even less understand it in hindsight.

The bolded word doesn't mean what you think it means.

brevity
03-15-2014, 12:25 AM
I agree with what you posted about the isolation but I would think the Atlantic Ocean is a nice piece of scenery to show a recruit. The campus itself is ascetically pleasing as well, in many ways.

Buzz must have been one heck of a salesman because they would not pay Jerry Wainright or any of the previous coaches and something was amiss during the years with the athletic department as coaches left like Brad for a side ways move. But for him they opened the vault. People did not understand the decision to hire Buzz then at that salary and even less understand it in hindsight.


The bolded word doesn't mean what you think it means.

Inconceivable!

I was going to say something snarky about how fans of Dawson's Creek might regard the UNCW campus as a strict religious experience, but even then, the term "ascetically pleasing" would still be an oxymoron.

grad_devil
03-15-2014, 08:23 AM
I agree with what you posted about the isolation but I would think the Atlantic Ocean is a nice piece of scenery to show a recruit. The campus itself is ascetically pleasing as well, in many ways.
...


The bolded word doesn't mean what you think it means.

One of my students misspelled "aesthetic" in a document the whole class was viewing. After some good natured ribbing, one of my students raised his hand and said

"what does 'aesthetic' mean?"

Another vocal student piped up:

"C'mon, man. Everyone knows what that means. It's when you lose a leg/arm and get a fake one. It's called an 'aesthetic'."

I teach at a university.

smh

wsb3
03-15-2014, 08:27 AM
Inconceivable!

I was going to say something snarky about how fans of Dawson's Creek might regard the UNCW campus as a strict religious experience, but even then, the term "ascetically pleasing" would still be an oxymoron.

I have been called out for an error and properly so for incorrect word usage.

For the record I would like to point out I never was a fan of Dawson's Creek.

PS I still think this is a good place for the right coach. :(

devildeac
03-15-2014, 08:28 AM
One of my students misspelled "aesthetic" in a document the whole class was viewing. After some good natured ribbing, one of my students raised his hand and said

"what does 'aesthetic' mean?"

Another vocal student piped up:

"C'mon, man. Everyone knows what that means. It's when you lose a leg/arm and get a fake one. It's called an 'aesthetic'."

I teach at a university.

smh

Couple more funny medical "definitions."

artery-study of paintings
barium-what doctors do when treatment fails

:o

Henderson
03-15-2014, 08:48 AM
Ironically, the point of my post above (#42) was kind of that Wilmington is ascetically pleasing. Or at least aesthetically pleasing for the ascetically minded.

duke09hms
03-15-2014, 10:04 AM
I'm not saying you're right or wrong because I don't see many of Stanford's games. I know there have been injuries to some of his better players but do you think Johnny's not a good coach or is he not getting enough from his players. In other words, are they under performing or is it a lack of recruiting? I'd like to know. Dawkins is one of my all time favorites to play at Duke. Not just because he was a great player(he was) but because he seemed to be a very nice guy in the times I've been blessed to meet him. Beat Clemson and GoDuke!

I think Johnny D is a good coach, not a great coach. A mark of a great coach is that he/she can effect great turnaround with the same players when they take over.

Think Cutcliffe: 4-8 his first year with the same players that went 1-11
Think Harbaugh: 4-8 his first year with the same players that went 1-11
Even Chris Collins was able to take Northwestern to historical marquee wins against ranked teams his first year.

Dawkins is a good coach, but up to now, I don't think he is good enough for an upper echelon program like Stanford. 5 years without a tourney appearance. They haven't had a drought like that since the 80s. Even though it's early on, I'd say Collins has demonstrated more coaching skills than Dawkins so far.

He's actually a decent recruiter and has a great class coming in next year. That fact may keep him his job, and I hope he goes far with them. But given they lose 5 seniors of their standard 8-man rotation this year, I'm not very optimistic for next year.

wsb3
03-15-2014, 10:14 AM
Thoughts about who might be a good fit at UNCW? I probably have more interest than most since I live at Carolina Beach and married a Seahawk girl last year.

So far I have not heard names thrown out. The buzz word says national search and while that sounds good I question how much $$$ the school will pay being as they are on the hook for Buzz salary.

Sure would like to see them in the tourney again. The year they won a game it was funny listening to ESPN explain to people where UNCW was at.

Reilly
03-17-2014, 12:13 PM
Wonder if Capel's name will be thrown around (Virginia ties from VCU days; big-time head coaching experience).

tbyers11
03-17-2014, 12:31 PM
Wonder if Capel's name will be thrown around (Virginia ties from VCU days; big-time head coaching experience).

It might get thrown around, but I can pretty much guarantee that no Coach K disciple will take an ACC job while K is still active

Matches
03-17-2014, 12:36 PM
Wonder if Capel's name will be thrown around (Virginia ties from VCU days; big-time head coaching experience).

Candidates would be wise to give that job a very wide berth. I've never been a Greenberg fan but the way he was let go was tacky - he found out from the media before being informed by the school. Then they fire his replacement after two years. Yea they were a crappy two years but they lost half the team to transfers after the last abrupt coaching change. Total dumpster fire.

MCFinARL
03-17-2014, 12:43 PM
Wonder if Capel's name will be thrown around (Virginia ties from VCU days; big-time head coaching experience).

Can't say this firing is a surprise, given the team's struggles over the last two years, but i feel a little bad for Johnson--he got a pretty tough row to hoe, given the peculiar way Greenberg was fired and the immediate loss of Finney-Smith and incoming recruit Harrell. And his remaining players have been plagued with injuries. Hope he catches on somewhere as an assistant or as a head coach of a lower-profile program to see what he can do in a more stable situation.

Reilly
03-17-2014, 12:54 PM
David Teel tweeted that Johnson won't be unemployed for long -- very well respected assistant coach.

As to the instability of the back-to-back firings, it was done by two different administrations (VT has a new AD).

sagegrouse
03-17-2014, 01:06 PM
It might get thrown around, but I can pretty much guarantee that no Coach K disciple will take an ACC job while K is still active

Link (http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/va_tech/virginia-tech-fires-men-s-basketball-coach-johnson/article_8ab47f98-adf7-11e3-84a6-001a4bcf6878.html)
I agree that K doesn't like to play against his former players or assistants. But suppose VT wanted to hire Capel or Wojo; they are willing cough up an offer of $1 million per for a four-year contract.

For your assertion to be true:

(1) K would have to persuade VT not to make the offer to a K "disciple." Uhhh, not likely.

(2) K would have to persuade Capel or Wojo not to take the job. Why would they listen to him on the basis of loyalty? They wouldn't, but they would listen to him that it is a lousy job (I don't happen to agree -- see below).

Thus, I don't think even K has the sway to avoid current or former assistants becoming ACC head coaches.

Virginia Tech is a potentially very good job; it's in arguably the strongest basketball conference -- about as good as the Big Ten and much bigger than the Big 12 ("Ten" but the name was taken). Jim Weaver, the former AD, fired Seth Greenberg after his top assistant left and took a lateral to Clemson. Seth was obviously on thin ice, and Weaver seemed unwilling to let him rebuild his staff with expensive guarantees when he wasn't likely to remain very long. And the other thing: how would you like to supervise the always carping Seth?

Weaver retired in November due to Parkinson's Disease. Whit Babcock was hired two months ago from Cincy. He evidently believes James Johnson is a weak coach, and he thinks he can do better. I find it hard to disagree, given the Bruce Pearls, Jeff Capels and other such candidates. (And also, the buyout is probably pretty small, as this is Johnson's first HC job.)

SoCalDukeFan
03-17-2014, 01:06 PM
I think Johnny D is a good coach, not a great coach. A mark of a great coach is that he/she can effect great turnaround with the same players when they take over.

Think Cutcliffe: 4-8 his first year with the same players that went 1-11
Think Harbaugh: 4-8 his first year with the same players that went 1-11
Even Chris Collins was able to take Northwestern to historical marquee wins against ranked teams his first year.


Duke won 22 and 24 games the two years before K then 17, 10 and 11 the first three years under him. The G Man did graduate but he still had Banks.

SoCal

RPS
03-17-2014, 04:14 PM
Duke won 22 and 24 games the two years before K then 17, 10 and 11 the first three years under him. The G Man did graduate but he still had Banks.
I was in CIS for every game of the 1980-81 season. K worked wonders with the talent on-hand (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/duke/1981.html). It was Tink, KD, Vince Taylor and role players.

lotusland
03-17-2014, 04:50 PM
Link (http://www.roanoke.com/sports/colleges/va_tech/virginia-tech-fires-men-s-basketball-coach-johnson/article_8ab47f98-adf7-11e3-84a6-001a4bcf6878.html)
I agree that K doesn't like to play against his former players or assistants. But suppose VT wanted to hire Capel or Wojo; they are willing cough up an offer of $1 million per for a four-year contract.

For your assertion to be true:

(1) K would have to persuade VT not to make the offer to a K "disciple." Uhhh, not likely.

(2) K would have to persuade Capel or Wojo not to take the job. Why would they listen to him on the basis of loyalty? They wouldn't, but they would listen to him that it is a lousy job (I don't happen to agree -- see below).

Thus, I don't think even K has the sway to avoid current or former assistants becoming ACC head coaches.

Virginia Tech is a potentially very good job; it's in arguably the strongest basketball conference -- about as good as the Big Ten and much bigger than the Big 12 ("Ten" but the name was taken). Jim Weaver, the former AD, fired Seth Greenberg after his top assistant left and took a lateral to Clemson. Seth was obviously on thin ice, and Weaver seemed unwilling to let him rebuild his staff with expensive guarantees when he wasn't likely to remain very long. And the other thing: how would you like to supervise the always carping Seth?

Weaver retired in November due to Parkinson's Disease. Whit Babcock was hired two months ago from Cincy. He evidently believes James Johnson is a weak coach, and he thinks he can do better. I find it hard to disagree, given the Bruce Pearls, Jeff Capels and other such candidates. (And also, the buyout is probably pretty small, as this is Johnson's first HC job.)

I can't think of any examples of ACC assistants taking HC jobs within the conference. Was Lefty a Duke assistant? Anyway I think loyalty is a good reason for Capel and Wojo to pass on that job and I doubt it happens. Maybe they should hire Dell Curry except that I think he is out of sons with eligibility and I can't imagine that he would coach defense very well. At least Seth's mom would be back in CIS occasionally:)

-jk
03-17-2014, 05:13 PM
I can't think of any examples of ACC assistants taking HC jobs within the conference. Was Lefty a Duke assistant? Anyway I think loyalty is a good reason for Capel and Wojo to pass on that job and I doubt it happens. Maybe they should hire Dell Curry except that I think he is out of sons with eligibility and I can't imagine that he would coach defense very well. At least Seth's mom would be back in CIS occasionally:)

Um... Vic Bubas?

-jk

lotusland
03-17-2014, 07:01 PM
Um... Vic Bubas?

-jk

Before my time. Where was Bubas an Assistant Coach? Also slightly before my time but Frank McGuire was actually Head Coach at UNC and USC while the Gamecocks were sill in the ACC. Even so I don't see Wojo or Capel going to Blacksburg.

-jk
03-17-2014, 07:05 PM
Before my time. Where was Bubas an Assistant Coach? Also slightly before my time but Frank McGuire was actually Head Coach at UNC and USC while the Gamecocks were sill in the ACC. Even so I don't see Wojo or Capel going to Blacksburg.

Sigh... (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Vic+Bubas)

-jk

OldPhiKap
03-17-2014, 07:19 PM
Before my time. Where was Bubas an Assistant Coach? Also slightly before my time but Frank McGuire was actually Head Coach at UNC and USC while the Gamecocks were sill in the ACC. Even so I don't see Wojo or Capel going to Blacksburg.

McGuire did a brief stint in the NBA between ACC gigs.

Bubas would have liked our semifinal this ACC tournament.

OldPhiKap
03-17-2014, 07:20 PM
Sigh... (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Vic+Bubas)

-jk

Oddly enough, googling "Vic Bubas" the first hit is Victoria's Secret.

-jk
03-17-2014, 07:23 PM
Oddly enough, googling "Vic Bubas" the first hit is Victoria's Secret.

I seem to recall Google tweaks current searches based on past searches. Not sure what that says, other than that my first hit is his Wiki entry...

-jk

Reilly
03-17-2014, 07:29 PM
Dave Odom went from Virginia assistant to WFU head coach.

When I google "Vic Bubas", I get all hoops-related stuff. I think "March Madness" may have a different meaning for OPK.

And James Johnson, whose firing started this portion of the conversation, technically went from Clemson assistant to VT head coach.

OldPhiKap
03-17-2014, 08:20 PM
You should see what I get when I google "Tar Heel" -- NSFW.

I do not see Jeff headed to VT, but he and Wojo could certainly head out for the right job. Nate James is waiting for the next Iron Man suit to be developed -- he has bigger things on the agenda.

lotusland
03-17-2014, 08:51 PM
Sigh... (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Vic+Bubas)

-jk

Wow you can google stuff like that? I had no idea. It did make me realize though that I don't really care about where else Vic Bubas coached enough to research it.

duke09hms
03-17-2014, 09:02 PM
Duke won 22 and 24 games the two years before K then 17, 10 and 11 the first three years under him. The G Man did graduate but he still had Banks.

SoCal

Well K made it to the tournament his 4th and 5th years and got all the way to the title game in his 6th year. Dawkins hasn't sniffed the tourney until his 6th year this year with a senior-laden team. Trajectories diverge greatly from there. Also the ACC was extremely strong in the 80s, the Pac-12 has been very weak the last few years.

Just saying, Dawkins underachieved his first 5 years, and if he was fired last year no one would have any right to complain. It's great that they made it to the tourney this year, but with Stanford losing 5 of their top 8 players to graduation, it's looking like a long shot for him to make the tourney again next year. He may need to if he wants to keep his job.

devildeac
03-17-2014, 09:27 PM
Oddly enough, googling "Vic Bubas" the first hit is Victoria's Secret.

That's pretty revealing...

tfk53
03-17-2014, 09:49 PM
I have been very impressed with how Wojo has done the in-game Q&A during the ACCT and other games. Composed, concise. It is how I would want my coach to present himself or herself, if I was in position of college AD and hiring a new BB coach. It would be very interesting to know who is casting interest in his direction.

Des Esseintes
03-18-2014, 12:19 AM
Couple more funny medical "definitions."

artery-study of paintings
barium-what doctors do when treatment fails

:o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mez8LZzA-tw
I've been reading Nick Tosches's biography of Martin, and, never having seen any of his material previously, ran across this today. Lots of new word definitions herein. Amazingly easy to get lost in a Dean Martin Show wormhole, as it turns out.

94duke
03-18-2014, 10:20 AM
Bruce Pearl to Auburn.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24490091/bruce-pearl-in-line-to-be-auburns-next-mens-basketball-coach

OldPhiKap
03-18-2014, 10:29 AM
Bruce Pearl to Auburn.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24490091/bruce-pearl-in-line-to-be-auburns-next-mens-basketball-coach

Whew, I figured he would be in the running for VT. Would not want him in the conference for various reasons.

Dude can coach and recruit. It's the whole "following the rules" thing that seems to hit a blind spot.

Dev11
03-18-2014, 10:57 AM
Whew, I figured he would be in the running for VT. Would not want him in the conference for various reasons.

Dude can coach and recruit. It's the whole "following the rules" thing that seems to hit a blind spot.

Auburn doesn't seem to mind that sort of issue. Given how innocuous his transgressions at Tennessee were (outside of the lying to investigators), I'd think that Pearl will get a good chance to succeed, although Auburn is a brutal place to run a program.

What's taking Wake so long?

tommy
03-18-2014, 11:02 AM
Bruce Pearl to Auburn.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24490091/bruce-pearl-in-line-to-be-auburns-next-mens-basketball-coach

There are certainly some Memphis boosters and fans who will be ready to have Pastner walk the plank if they don't reach, say, the Sweet 16 this year, and I'm sure those folks would've been quite interested in Pearl, having seen him succeed on the court with Tennessee to the degree he did. So I guess this hire is a good thing for Pastner and his supporters.

OldPhiKap
03-18-2014, 11:03 AM
What's taking Wake so long?

Think they are in talks with an agent for a coach whose team is still playing? Although I would not think that canning Bz is based on getting a dream candidate.

Didn't Wake's AD basically show Grobe the door? Maybe there is an issue with buy-out money.

FerryFor50
03-18-2014, 11:07 AM
There are certainly some Memphis boosters and fans who will be ready to have Pastner walk the plank if they don't reach, say, the Sweet 16 this year, and I'm sure those folks would've been quite interested in Pearl, having seen him succeed on the court with Tennessee to the degree he did. So I guess this hire is a good thing for Pastner and his supporters.

If Memphis fans are wanting to get rid of Pastner, they need to get their heads checked.

What kind of success do they expect at a school that isn't really a traditional power and only had any success under some questionable recruiting practices by Calipari? Pastner has done a pretty good job, I think, considering how hard it is to recruit at Memphis.

Dev11
03-18-2014, 11:09 AM
Think they are in talks with an agent for a coach whose team is still playing? Although I would not think that canning Bz is based on getting a dream candidate.

Didn't Wake's AD basically show Grobe the door? Maybe there is an issue with buy-out money.

Maybe there's an issue with Wake's AD. A lot of the anti-Bz crowd pin bigger issues on Wellman.

I wonder how optimistic Wake can be about snagging a big name coach.

OldPhiKap
03-18-2014, 12:58 PM
Maybe there's an issue with Wake's AD. A lot of the anti-Bz crowd pin bigger issues on Wellman.

I wonder how optimistic Wake can be about snagging a big name coach.

Davey Odom said it best when he explained why he was leaving Wake to go to South Carolina:

"It's tough being everyone's second-favorite team in North Carolina"

OldPhiKap
03-18-2014, 01:03 PM
Wellman was also a bit tied up this weekend as head of the tournament selection committee, so likely didn't have a lot of time to think about hiring and firing. Though I vote for them to promote Rusty Larue!

He could be the quarterbacks' coach, too!

CrazyNotCrazie
03-18-2014, 01:03 PM
Maybe there's an issue with Wake's AD. A lot of the anti-Bz crowd pin bigger issues on Wellman.

I wonder how optimistic Wake can be about snagging a big name coach.

Wellman was also a bit tied up this weekend as head of the tournament selection committee, so likely didn't have a lot of time to think about hiring and firing. Though I vote for them to promote Rusty Larue!

Duvall
03-18-2014, 01:10 PM
Steve Donahue out at BC. (http://espn.go.com/boston/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10628149/boston-college-parts-ways-coach-steve-donahue)


Hard to argue with that.

hurleyfor3
03-18-2014, 01:11 PM
I don't see any official word out about Bzzzzzzzzzz.

However, Steve Donahue is out (http://espn.go.com/boston/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10628149/boston-college-eagles-part-ways-coach-steve-donahue) at the ACC's more northern, more Catholic version of Wake. (Duvall beat me to it.)

Espn is often not the first to break news of coaching changes, but to its credit, it is very reliable.

pfrduke
03-18-2014, 01:23 PM
Steve Donahue out at BC. (http://espn.go.com/boston/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10628149/boston-college-parts-ways-coach-steve-donahue)


Hard to argue with that.

Yup. They came into the season looking like they might have a shot to compete for a tourney bid. They brought virtually everyone back from a team that won 6 of its last 10 in 2013, showing signs of life, and they turned into the second worst team in the conference (ahead of only an unfathomably bad Virginia Tech program). Plus, he went 0-4 against Harvard, which can't sit well with the locals.

Des Esseintes
03-18-2014, 01:41 PM
Yup. They came into the season looking like they might have a shot to compete for a tourney bid. They brought virtually everyone back from a team that won 6 of its last 10 in 2013, showing signs of life, and they turned into the second worst team in the conference (ahead of only an unfathomably bad Virginia Tech program). Plus, he went 0-4 against Harvard, which can't sit well with the locals.

It seemed like a questionable hire from the beginning. Al Skinner is let go for poor recruiting, and you bring in the guy from Cornell who just rode a bunch of seniors to a moonshot Sweet 16? Took an awfully big leap of faith to think that was going to work great. Which it did not.

Dev11
03-18-2014, 02:47 PM
I don't see any official word out about Bzzzzzzzzzz.

However, Steve Donahue is out (http://espn.go.com/boston/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10628149/boston-college-eagles-part-ways-coach-steve-donahue) at the ACC's more northern, more Catholic version of Wake. (Duvall beat me to it.)

Espn is often not the first to break news of coaching changes, but to its credit, it is very reliable.

Since they snagged Jeff Goodman last summer, I'd say ESPN has now become the best source for that sort of news. He's been on top of a lot of the offseason-type news (firings, transfers) this week.

Henderson
03-18-2014, 04:33 PM
Yup. They came into the season looking like they might have a shot to compete for a tourney bid. They brought virtually everyone back from a team that won 6 of its last 10 in 2013, showing signs of life, and they turned into the second worst team in the conference (ahead of only an unfathomably bad Virginia Tech program). Plus, he went 0-4 against Harvard, which can't sit well with the locals.

4 years is not much. I really dislike the short time horizons and short leashes many athletic directors put on head coaches. But a coach needs to have a narrative that describes a plan, a positive curve, an upward trajectory, a sense that he is doing as well as he can under the circumstances. I think the problem for SD is that he just didn't have one. So in this case, four years is enough.

Dev11
03-18-2014, 04:47 PM
Bruce Pearl has already landed in Auburn and per his Twitter is hosting a pizza party tonight in their gym for all of the students.

You can't deny he's got charisma.

Reports going around that Tommy Amaker may be in line for the BC job, with other speculation about Syracuse assistant Mike Hopkins. Either would have to compete in conference against their respective mentors.

Clay Feet POF
03-18-2014, 05:00 PM
Funny how DePaul was once in just this spot. Their solution was to quit caring about basketball.



Let me add a few comments of someone who was there. There were two major moves that started the decline, almost at the same time.

First after all their success, they started to recruit National. Intercity coaches were irate and began discouraging players to go to DePaul. If I remember correctly the Simeon coach (with a Great Reputation) was the most vocal. Also DePaul broke off their TV contract with WGN (Super station) going in another direction.

Second, They moved from a small on campus stadium (Under 10,000 Alumni Hall) where their almost unbeatable to the 17,000 Horizon about 15 miles away to a relative new developing suburb of Rosemont.

Thing were OK for a while, but as national recruiting could not replace the quality of the inner city recruits and the loss of student fans,(the life’s blood) cold Chicago winter with not many places to go after the games everything’s started to decline.

Just to be clear, Joey was a very good coach. In my opinion he was torpedoed by the new AD someone from Temple (BB I think.) DePaul imposed very questionable sanctions against the basketball team. The results were expected and Joey got a bad rap.

You may want to check out his record leaving out the last two torpedoed years. My favorite memories are the 85-86 NCAA in Greensboro NC and as underdogs beating Virginia and Oklahoma. Then on to the Meadowlands to play Duke and I will always remember late in a close game as we were bring the ball up but away from the ball a foul was called on Kevin Holland and it broke our backs.

DePaul will not be relevant until they go back on campus which has little chance unless I win the billion bracket contest.

Henderson
03-18-2014, 05:13 PM
Anyone else notice that Mike Brey's streak of post-season appearances was broken this year? 16 years in a row. 11 NCAA appearances and 5 NIT appearances. Watching TV this year.

He's got a long history of success (albeit with only 1 Sweet Sixteen appearance), so I don't think his job is in danger. But the ACC isn't the Big East (let alone the America East). He'd better snap back rather than start a Mike Jarvis-like slide. His class coming in next year isn't even in the ESPN top 40.

wsb3
03-18-2014, 05:46 PM
Reports going around that Tommy Amaker may be in line for the BC job, with other speculation about Syracuse assistant Mike Hopkins. Either would have to compete in conference against their respective mentors.

Tommy may have found a home at Harvard and not care to chase bigger jobs, bigger conferences.

roywhite
03-18-2014, 08:17 PM
Reports going around that Tommy Amaker may be in line for the BC job, with other speculation about Syracuse assistant Mike Hopkins. Either would have to compete in conference against their respective mentors.


Tommy may have found a home at Harvard and not care to chase bigger jobs, bigger conferences.

No specific info on Tommy, but such a change won't be totally unusual. Fran Dunphy had a very good 17-year run at Penn, but then jumped over to Temple in 2006. Didn't need to move his family and got a change of scenery and more basketball visibility.

Henderson
03-18-2014, 08:45 PM
Bruce Pearl has already landed in Auburn and per his Twitter is hosting a pizza party tonight in their gym for all of the students.


I hope there won't be any high school juniors at the party. His get togethers (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6243862) make the NCAA nervous.

brevity
03-18-2014, 08:57 PM
I hope there won't be any high school juniors at the party. His get togethers (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6243862) make the NCAA nervous.

My inside source with connections at Auburn -- no names, but he can get quite chatty from pre-surgical sedation -- tell me that the university brass made Bruce Pearl agree to the following explicit rules, in increasing order of importance:

1. Do not host recruits at a social gathering away from the arena or offices without a compliance officer present.
2. If you accidentally violate Rule #1, please do not lie about it.
3. If you must eat pizza, do not eat it alone on a golf cart.
4. Do not schedule a game in the state of Illinois.
5. In public, please keep your shirt on.

Clay Feet POF
03-18-2014, 09:13 PM
My inside source with connections at Auburn -- no names, but he can get quite chatty from pre-surgical sedation -- tell me that the university brass made Bruce Pearl agree to the following explicit rules, in increasing order of importance:

1. Do not host recruits at a social gathering away from the arena or offices without a compliance officer present.
2. If you accidentally violate Rule #1, please do not lie about it.
3. If you must eat pizza, do not eat it alone on a golf cart.
4. Do not schedule a game in the state of Illinois.
5. In public, please keep your shirt on.

Would #4 be the Iowa situation with Illinois Coach Lou Hensen regarding recruiting?

tommy
03-18-2014, 10:32 PM
If Memphis fans are wanting to get rid of Pastner, they need to get their heads checked.

What kind of success do they expect at a school that isn't really a traditional power and only had any success under some questionable recruiting practices by Calipari? Pastner has done a pretty good job, I think, considering how hard it is to recruit at Memphis.

I think Pastner had the #1 recruiting class in the nation a few years back. His record is pretty good, but hardly great, and like it or not, his record is viewed in light of Calipari's success there. In Pastner's first year, they went to the NIT. His second year, he lost in the first round of the NCAA, as a 12 seed, meaning he barely got in. Then in 2012 they were an 8, and lost in the first round again. Last year, they were a 6 and he got his first tournament win (by 2 over St. Mary's), only to be followed by a blowout by Michigan State.

I think this year he finally got his first win against a ranked team. They're in the 8-9 game again, this time against George Washington.

Plenty of schools and their fans and boosters would be quite happy with that record over five years. Their administration is, as they gave him a contract extension last year, but I wonder how much more patience their boosters and fans will have with Pastner if he can't at least occasionally get them to a Sweet 16.

sagegrouse
03-18-2014, 11:35 PM
No specific info on Tommy, but such a change won't be totally unusual. Fran Dunphy had a very good 17-year run at Penn, but then jumped over to Temple in 2006. Didn't need to move his family and got a change of scenery and more basketball visibility.

Uhhh, .... Fran tripled or quadrupled his income at Temple.

Dev11
03-19-2014, 07:54 AM
Uhhh, .... Fran tripled or quadrupled his income at Temple.

The numbers I saw being thrown around yesterday by writers indicated that Tommy's raise wouldn't be nearly that much. They were saying that Tommy made something like $700K this year and Donahue made about $900K.

brevity
03-19-2014, 08:16 AM
My inside source with connections at Auburn -- no names, but he can get quite chatty from pre-surgical sedation -- tell me that the university brass made Bruce Pearl agree to the following explicit rules, in increasing order of importance:

1. Do not host recruits at a social gathering away from the arena or offices without a compliance officer present.
2. If you accidentally violate Rule #1, please do not lie about it.
3. If you must eat pizza, do not eat it alone on a golf cart.
4. Do not schedule a game in the state of Illinois.
5. In public, please keep your shirt on.


Would #4 be the Iowa situation with Illinois Coach Lou Hensen regarding recruiting?

Yes (http://espn.go.com/chicago/ncb/story/_/id/7759731/years-were-center-recruiting-controversy-bruce-pearl-apologized-jimmy-collins). It's interesting that you mention Lou Henson, because no one else does. Despite being the head coach then, he's managed to be a forgotten factor in all this. People focus on assistant Jimmy Collins and then-Iowa assistant Bruce Pearl, both of whom later became rival head coaches in the Horizon League.

There's a pretty good Deadspin article (http://deadspin.com/5784437/bruce-pearls-first-con-and-the-world-that-created-a-monster) breaking down the principals in the Deon Thomas recruitment saga. I was not aware that current SEC Commissioner Mike Slive -- the once and future overseer of Bruce Pearl's work -- was the attorney hired by Illinois to investigate. An excerpt:


"Our perception was that Slive was working in concert with NCAA and his whole process was to throw Jimmy under the bus and ask Illinois to grovel for mercy and leniency," said Mark Goldenberg, the attorney who represented Collins throughout the investigation. Eventually, Goldenberg, along with Thomas's attorney, prevailed upon the school to relieve Slive of his duties.

OldPhiKap
03-19-2014, 09:37 AM
Uhhh, .... Fran tripled or quadrupled his income at Temple.


The numbers I saw being thrown around yesterday by writers indicated that Tommy's raise wouldn't be nearly that much. They were saying that Tommy made something like $700K this year and Donahue made about $900K.

Having done stints at Seton Hall and Michigan, he is well-suited to weigh the pros and cons of such a move. And he clearly knows what it would be like to compete in the ACC.

Clay Feet POF
03-19-2014, 09:50 AM
Thanks for the Deadspin Link. I guess there a little bit of IceBerg in some of us.

duke79
03-19-2014, 09:55 AM
The numbers I saw being thrown around yesterday by writers indicated that Tommy's raise wouldn't be nearly that much. They were saying that Tommy made something like $700K this year and Donahue made about $900K.

Obviously, I'm in no position to tell Tommy what to do with his career, but, IMHO, BC is not a great coaching gig at this time. I live in Massachusetts and, despite being in the ACC, BC is thought of as more of a hockey school (and even football school) than a basketball school. I think it would be difficult to recruit the sort of talent you would need to compete at the highest levels of the ACC and Div. 1 college b-ball at BC (which Steve Donahue found out). Tommy has a great position at Harvard. He can recruit enough talent with the lure of a Harvard education and degree to pretty much dominate in the Ivy League and maybe win one or two games in the NCAA tournament. Is he ever going to be able to make the final four with a Harvard team? Unlikely but still not a bad place to be coaching. Obviously, if one the elite coaching jobs (Duke, UNC, Kentucky, Kansas, etc.) opens up and he is under consideration for one of those jobs, it might make sense to make the move. But I wouldn't leave his current job for a bottom level Div. 1 team.

Olympic Fan
03-19-2014, 12:02 PM
Sorry to see Donahue go ... I liked and respected the guy. But I understand his struggles in 2012 and 2013 with young teams ... and they made good progress in 2013. But the failure to continue that progress in 2014 was really disturbing. Then the reports that his three best players were either turning pro (Hanlan) or considering transfer to the West Coast (Anderson and Rahon) was a killer.

In all, I consider the firing of Donahue much more understandable than the premature firing of James Johnson.

BC is a tough situation. Amaker is the logical guy for them to hire, but I don't see it from Tommy's point of view. He has a great situation at Harvard ... why give that up for a brutal rebounding job at BC?

Besides, BC's last hire was to get the best coach in the Ivy. Do they want to go down that path again?

PS And what's taking so long on Bzdelik? He's got to go!

BD80
03-19-2014, 03:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mez8LZzA-tw
I've been reading Nick Tosches's biography of Martin, and, never having seen any of his material previously, ran across this today. Lots of new word definitions herein. Amazingly easy to get lost in a Dean Martin Show wormhole, as it turns out.

In any dictionary, under "adorable," that clip of Goldie Hawn should appear. Oh how she changed over the years ;(

weezie
03-19-2014, 04:23 PM
True...she was quite an actress to have put up with Deano and his disgusting cigarette breath.

Des Esseintes
03-19-2014, 06:18 PM
In any dictionary, under "adorable," that clip of Goldie Hawn should appear. Oh how she changed over the years ;(

A friend of mine was a personal assistant to someone reasonably close to Hawn. One of Goldie's rules was that after a certain age a woman must make a choice: as she put it, "your a-- or your face." Goldie chose body, obviously. Getting old sucks, particularly if you're a woman in the public sphere. You get punished for looking old, and you get punished for having work done. I have a hard time criticizing too harshly anyone's response to time's ravages.

But yes, extremely, extremely cute here.

Mudge
03-20-2014, 02:42 AM
A friend of mine was a personal assistant to someone reasonably close to Hawn. One of Goldie's rules was that after a certain age a woman must make a choice: as she put it, "your a-- or your face." Goldie chose body, obviously. Getting old sucks, particularly if you're a woman in the public sphere. You get punished for looking old, and you get punished for having work done. I have a hard time criticizing too harshly anyone's response to time's ravages.

But yes, extremely, extremely cute here.

I believe that line was first attributed to Catherine Deneuve, who is a bit older than Goldie... not sure how she chose, but CD appears to have kept herself remarkably photogenic over the years, while still remaining quite fit.

Mudge
03-20-2014, 02:59 AM
If Memphis fans are wanting to get rid of Pastner, they need to get their heads checked.

What kind of success do they expect at a school that isn't really a traditional power and only had any success under some questionable recruiting practices by Calipari? Pastner has done a pretty good job, I think, considering how hard it is to recruit at Memphis.

I hear -jk's sigh and raise you-- those people who would say that Memphis is not a "traditional power" and only had success under Calipari would probably also say that Duke basketball was nothing before Coach K arrived... much like Duke, Memphis had reached multiple Final Fours under multiple coaches (without winning a title, again like Duke), long before Calipari ever arrived on the scene there...

These are probably the same people who think Wichita State or Creighton have no tradition of basketball success until the last couple of years-- perhaps they can be forgiven for being confused by Memphis' name change (dropping the "State" of their earlier years-- much as people probably forget Charlotte's earlier Final Four success as UNC-Charlotte)-- though I doubt it, as the original sigh-inducer has already retorted to -jk that he couldn't be bothered (or interested) to know or care where Vic Bubas might have coached before he came to Duke-- which then makes me wonder why he bothers to comment at all on these threads having to do with basketball history... this is how we get arguments that Georgetown is one of the long-time traditional powers of college basketball, but Memphis is not.

Mudge
03-20-2014, 03:06 AM
Clay Feet POF

My Take
Originally Posted by hurleyfor3
Funny how DePaul was once in just this spot. Their solution was to quit caring about basketball.


Let me add a few comments of someone who was there. There were two major moves that started the decline, almost at the same time.

First after all their success, they started to recruit National. Intercity coaches were irate

I do not think that word means what you think it means...

MartyClark
03-20-2014, 06:03 AM
I wasn't here in the mid-'80's, but it always struck me as more anomalous that DePaul was ever a power than that they faded into obscurity.

I don't think that hole's likely to ever be filled, at least not in our lifetimes. For one, as I'm sure you'll agree, it's primarily a professional sports town. People moved on to Michael Jordan pretty quickly. Television has 850 games a week on tap, so there's no need to go see a decent local team, even if they exist. DePaul's facilities are pathetic, and they don't even play anywhere near campus. But most importantly, recruiting has just changed so significantly over the last 30 years. It's impossible to get a collection of top players from one city to stay in town anymore. Everyone from UCLA to Duke to Kentucky has them on their radars from the age of 14 now, and don't have to make a special trip just to meet them due to all the tournaments. They're playing on AAU and all-star teams with kids from other towns and forming friendships there, too. No one stays around an institution for as long as Ray Meyer these days, so it's very difficult to build any local, non-alum fanbase without continuity or being seen as a stepping stone. DePaul was able for awhile to overcome its competitive disadvantages, primarily due to Meyer's cultivation of relationships with every high school coach in Illinois over 40+ years there. Those disadvantages have just grown nearly insurmountable over time, though. Even for the great Pat Kennedy. [sad trombone]

Nowadays, if you want to be a smallish school in an urban environment with a lot of other attractions that succeeds in big time basketball, you need to, among other things, dump a bunch of money into a modern arena. DePaul's not going to do that (and doesn't have anywhere to do it - they should have bought 6 acres somewhere along the Clybourn corridor when they had the chance 25 years ago). I'm no genius, but I thought Oliver Purnell was insane to take that job, and it looks like he may need to start looking again soon.

All that said, the implosion of the Big East is probably a good thing for DePaul basketball generally. Now they're back in a mid-major with the ability to break through every once in awhile and rack up a NCAAT appearance here and there, instead of being guaranteed a base of 8 or 9 conference losses every season.

I had DePaul season tickets for a few years before I moved west. The Rosemont Horizon is a terrible place to watch basketball. I understand that there is now some discussion of building a new arena near McCormick Place. While that's not on campus, it's near the Loop and sounds like a better alternative.

My take on DePaul is a bit like yours. Ray Meyer coached George Mikan and then had decades of mediocrity. Late in Ray's career he recruited Mark Aguirre, Skip Dillard, Terry Cumming and others and had a really good team for a few years. That faded pretty quickly and by the time Joey took over, they weren't that good.

Clay Feet POF
03-20-2014, 07:43 AM
Clay Feet POF

My Take
Originally Posted by hurleyfor3
Funny how DePaul was once in just this spot. Their solution was to quit caring about basketball.


Let me add a few comments of someone who was there. There were two major moves that started the decline, almost at the same time.

First after all their success, they started to recruit National. Intercity coaches were irate

I do not think that word means what you think it means...

At the time this is the word that was used by the Chicago newspapers!!

Duvall
03-20-2014, 02:14 PM
Numerous reports now that Jeff Bzdelik will be "resigning" from Wake Forest. Press conference this afternoon.

Duvall
03-20-2014, 02:33 PM
Numerous reports now that Jeff Bzdelik will be "resigning" from Wake Forest. Press conference this afternoon.

The story. (http://www.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/basketball/bzdelik-out-as-wake-forest-coach/article_f0cd6892-b060-11e3-98db-0017a43b2370.html)


Jeff Bzdelik’s pitched four-season battle to remain as head basketball coach at Wake Forest is over. Ron Wellman, the university’s director of athletics, will announce at a media conference today that Bzdelik will not return for the fifth and final season of his contract.

theAlaskanBear
03-20-2014, 02:38 PM
This is the first I heard about the James Johnson/VT firing. I am agog at the incompetence of the VT athletic department. They fire Seth Greenberg because they are worried about his assistants moving on to new jobs, hire his top assistant, and then fire him after two season????

Seth is surely having the last laugh here. I expect VT to be a doormat for years to come.

I also don't understand the Bzdelik firing, given he has just one year left on his contract. The Wake team has improved either their overall record or their ACC record every year he has been there. They are not great, but they are climbing from rock bottom. It showed signs of life this year, why not see what he can do next year?

-jk
03-20-2014, 02:49 PM
This is the first I heard about the James Johnson/VT firing. I am agog at the incompetence of the VT athletic department. They fire Seth Greenberg because they are worried about his assistants moving on to new jobs, hire his top assistant, and then fire him after two season????

Seth is surely having the last laugh here. I expect VT to be a doormat for years to come.

I also don't understand the Bzdelik firing, given he has just one year left on his contract. The Wake team has improved either their overall record or their ACC record every year he has been there. They are not great, but they are climbing from rock bottom. It showed signs of life this year, why not see what he can do next year?

I think VT had a change of AD in the meantime.

-jk

sagegrouse
03-20-2014, 02:49 PM
This is the first I heard about the James Johnson/VT firing. I am agog at the incompetence of the VT athletic department. They fire Seth Greenberg because they are worried about his assistants moving on to new jobs, hire his top assistant, and then fire him after two season????

Seth is surely having the last laugh here. I expect VT to be a doormat for years to come.

It was covered above. Ron Wellman fired Seth when top-assistant James Johnson took a lateral to Clemson. One would conclude that Seth was on thin ice and that Wellman didn't want to go through the guarantees necessary to rebuild the staff. Also, would you want to have the surly Seth Greenbreg reporting to you?

Wellman disclosed he had Parkinson's and announced his retirement in November. The new AD, Whit Babcock, had been AD at Cincinnati. My suppositions are (a) that Babcock thought he could do a lot better than Johnson and (b) that Johnson was on a fairly minimal contract with a small buyout. I tend to agree that VT can do better than Babcock.

I think VT, as a school in the heart of the ACC, is a good place for a coach. Moreover, the confidence in the commitment of the AD should not be a problem: a new coach's confidence will be the financial guarantee in the contract.

Billy Dat
03-20-2014, 03:02 PM
There is Twitter speculation about Capel being the #1 target for Wake. I can't imagine he'd stay in conference and go head-to-head with Duke like that. There will be other equally-good-if-not-better jobs for him, I would think.

Jeff Goodman ‏@GoodmanESPN 17m
Early names I'm hearing for Wake Forest: Ben Howland and Jeff Capel. Will be interesting to see what Ron Wellman does with this hire.

Jeff Borzello ‏@jeffborzello 15m
I've said for awhile that Jeff Capel would be a great fit with Wake Forest. Outstanding recruiter, obviously knows the area.

Duvall
03-20-2014, 03:04 PM
It was covered above. Ron Wellman fired Seth when top-assistant James Johnson took a lateral to Clemson. One would conclude that Seth was on thin ice and that Wellman didn't want to go through the guarantees necessary to rebuild the staff. Also, would you want to have the surly Seth Greenbreg reporting to you?

Weaver, not Wellman.

fisheyes
03-20-2014, 03:55 PM
To give you a sense of the mood at Wake now that they fired the coach....

The students just ROLLED THE QUAD!

This is only save for upsets of major college teams...(sigh...Duke).

REALLY? He was hated that much?

Wow!

Dev11
03-20-2014, 04:01 PM
To give you a sense of the mood at Wake now that they fired the coach....

The students just ROLLED THE QUAD!

This is only save for upsets of major college teams...(sigh...Duke).

REALLY? He was hated that much?

Wow!

When you average one road conference win per year over 4 years, yes, you get hated that much.

It wasn't long ago that Wake was ranked #1 in the country.

BlueDevilBrowns
03-20-2014, 04:08 PM
When you average one road conference win per year over 4 years, yes, you get hated that much.

It wasn't long ago that Wake was ranked #1 in the country.

Yeah, I've always thought WF was an underrated destination for CBB.

Good conference, BBall is the #1 sport(w/o crazy expectations), a solid natural recruiting base(NC), and good academics for parents and recruits that are into that.

I think Jeff Capel would do quite well there, actually.

devildeac
03-20-2014, 04:11 PM
K's head might explode if Tommy >> BC and Jeff (was better) >> WFU.

brevity
03-20-2014, 04:19 PM
To give you a sense of the mood at Wake now that they fired the coach....

The students just ROLLED THE QUAD!

This is only save for upsets of major college teams...(sigh...Duke).

REALLY? He was hated that much?

Wow!

If the Joel was open today, they would have stormed the court. Still better than Maryland students, who burn down a cafeteria when they celebrate a coach's departure.

Seriously though, I think this is a moment where the ACC as a whole either improves or doesn't. Virginia Tech, Boston College, and Wake Forest need to make hires somewhere on the spectrum between solid and slam dunk. (Though I don't expect Ron Wellman to figure it out. He wasn't smart enough to swap Iowa and Xavier so there wouldn't be a second Big Ten team on Michigan's side of the Midwest bracket.)

Bay Area Duke Fan
03-20-2014, 05:30 PM
K's head might explode if Tommy >> BC and Jeff (was better) >> WFU.

To what extent might the current career decisions of Amaker and Capel be based on their hopes of succeeding K at Duke ("Dream Job")?

Would taking a head coach position at another ACC school eliminate that possibility?

hurleyfor3
03-20-2014, 05:42 PM
To give you a sense of the mood at Wake now that they fired the coach....

The students just ROLLED THE QUAD!

You're not kidding.

http://webcam.wfu.edu/

devildeac
03-20-2014, 06:00 PM
To what extent might the current career decisions of Amaker and Capel be based on their hopes of succeeding K at Duke ("Dream Job")?

Would taking a head coach position at another ACC school eliminate that possibility?

Don't know how to answer that. If either/both took one/two of the open ACC jobs now and eventually succeeded K, that would mean jumping to another ACC school after BC, WFU (or VT even).

-bdbd
03-20-2014, 06:19 PM
Don't know how to answer that. If either/both took one/two of the open ACC jobs now and eventually succeeded K, that would mean jumping to another ACC school after BC, WFU (or VT even).

Just don't see that as a problem. If/when K leaves (in another ten years or so, hopefully), then Duke will take the best coach available to move the program forward, with certain preference given to those from the K coaching tree. I don't see why we wouldn't take the best coach just b/c he spent the last few years at another ACC school, and presumably was successful there. Put another way, what makes a guy more qualified to coach at Duke after K -- being a success in a major conference school with good academics (see Stanford, Northwestern, ND, BC, Wake, etc) or alternatively hiring a HC out of an Assistant position or from a Mid-Major somewhere? Just can't imagine why we'd allow his coaching in the ACC be anything but a positive. :confused: :D

ElSid
03-20-2014, 11:26 PM
The very even-toned DBR article on the front page talks about how Wake is "better" than their belligerent reaction. This reminds me of my freshman year at Little John when Tim Duncan was a senior. We won that game with the improbable defense of Carawell at the 5 against Duncan. I was there. Before the game, walking around the hallways, wearing a Duke sweatshirt, I was actually poked, pinched, anonymously pushed, yelled at, sworn at, goaded into talking smack which I hate doing, etc.

By the end of the game when it was clear we were finally going to win, I lashed out a bit, looking back at the crowd, borderline taunting. I am honest when I say I wouldn't have behaved that way if I hadn't been primed to be so fired up by all the random mini-assaults earlier. An 80+ year old guy walked down to where I was celebrating and pushed me hard enough to hit the railing, and I was on one of the top floors. I always said the guy would have liked to see me go over the edge. I was shocked this old dude would do such a thing! It was disproportionately violent to the situation and my mild taunting. Of course, the whole section applauded his actions. It did not, unfortunately for them, stop my display. I had driven all the way from Durham to enjoy it, and I was determined to return the hostility at least a little.

Point is, I've never thought of Wake fans as civil. I've always equated them with (almost) Maryland fans. I have a few friends who are Wake grads and they hated Bzdelik from the first mention of his name and have been calling for blood from the beginning.

The guy wears terrible shirt and tie combos, but I thought he had some moments of promise. He was no K, despite z-consonant juxtaposition. I wish him good luck and hope he's relieved to be out of Camel city.

Edouble
03-21-2014, 02:30 AM
The very even-toned DBR article on the front page talks about how Wake is "better" than their belligerent reaction. This reminds me of my freshman year at Little John when Tim Duncan was a senior. We won that game with the improbable defense of Carawell at the 5 against Duncan. I was there. Before the game, walking around the hallways, wearing a Duke sweatshirt, I was actually poked, pinched, anonymously pushed, yelled at, sworn at, goaded into talking smack which I hate doing, etc.

We played Wake in Little John?

* * *

I was lucky enough to receive tickets to the Duke/Wake game in Cameron this year for my birthday via Coach Bzdelik.

My girlfriend's coworker is the son of a former ACC head coach, who is friends with Coach Bzdelik. Coach Bzdelik was nice enough to set aside two of his allotment of Cameron tickets for us at will call, even though he has never met us. Anyway, my girlfriend and I sat in the very first row behind the Wake bench. I could actually smell Randolph Childress's breath mints. The seats were amazing! (note: for anyone who attended the game and remembers, I was seated directly in front of the little girl who kept screaming during the free throws. It really hurt my ears.)

We had to pretend to "cheer" for Wake, but it was worth it for those damn seats.

After the game, I waited for Coach Bzdelik to come out of the locker room to thank him for the tickets. He was a very classy guy and took a minute to speak with us. He seemed genuinely upset about the loss, but also interested in meeting us and making sure we had enjoyed the game. I am sorry that things did not turn out better for him at Wake. He is a true gentleman and I wish him the best of luck in the next phase of his career.

CameronBornAndBred
03-21-2014, 08:36 AM
To what extent might the current career decisions of Amaker and Capel be based on their hopes of succeeding K at Duke ("Dream Job")?

Would taking a head coach position at another ACC school eliminate that possibility?

I would think proving that you can win in the ACC with a team that was in the basement when you took over would look pretty good to an ACC team that is a perennial powerhouse.
One thing to think about. Would BC want to invest in Amaker knowing that there is a possibility that Duke may come calling in a few short years?

burnspbesq
03-21-2014, 08:53 AM
I will be very surprised if Mick Cronin doesn't end up as the choice to fill one of the ACC vacancies. He has a solid resume, and he strikes me as a guy with whom the AAC's inevitable slide into obscurity isn't going to sit well.

If BC can't lure Amaker, they would do well to take a look at Mike Lonergan from GW.

If New Mexico wins a couple of games in the NCAA, that makes Craig Neal the flavor of the month.

wilson
03-21-2014, 09:23 AM
I've always equated them with (almost) Maryland fans. I have a few friends who are Wake grads and they hated Bzdelik from the first mention of his name and have been calling for blood from the beginning.I think this is a bit much. My brother is a Wake grad, and he and his friends disliked the Bzdelik hire because it smacked so clearly of nepotism. Ron Wellman fired Dino Gaudio after three straight NCAA tournament appearances, in favor of a coach (Bzdelik) in his late 50s, with a losing career postseason record, only one all-time NCAAT appearance and a losing record at his last stop before Winston-Salem (Colorado). When pressed for the reasons behind Gaudio's firing, Wellman cited his losing postseason record, yet he replaced Gaudio with a coach...with a losing postseason record. On top of that, the hire was made very swiftly, and Wellman and Bzdelik have a long-standing personal relationship. The hire was a head-scratcher from the beginning, and as widely expected, it did not pan out. In light of the overall decline in Wake basketball's stature (not to mention the Deacs' overall athletic slide) in recent years, Wellman just may be the next person out the door. He is no more popular among Deac fans than was Bzdelik.

Des Esseintes
03-21-2014, 09:46 AM
I will be very surprised if Mick Cronin doesn't end up as the choice to fill one of the ACC vacancies. He has a solid resume, and he strikes me as a guy with whom the AAC's inevitable slide into obscurity isn't going to sit well.

If BC can't lure Amaker, they would do well to take a look at Mike Lonergan from GW.

If New Mexico wins a couple of games in the NCAA, that makes Craig Neal the flavor of the month.

Cronin would be a great get. The conference's emerging style of play might dictate Duke trades its jerseys in for wrestling singlets, but we're heading that way regardless. He would solidify any of the schools under discussion into a near-perennial tournament team.

SoCalDukeFan
03-21-2014, 10:20 AM
I think this is a bit much. My brother is a Wake grad, and he and his friends disliked the Bzdelik hire because it smacked so clearly of nepotism. Ron Wellman fired Dino Gaudio after three straight NCAA tournament appearances, in favor of a coach (Bzdelik) in his late 50s, with a losing career postseason record, only one all-time NCAAT appearance and a losing record at his last stop before Winston-Salem (Colorado). When pressed for the reasons behind Gaudio's firing, Wellman cited his losing postseason record, yet he replaced Gaudio with a coach...with a losing postseason record. On top of that, the hire was made very swiftly, and Wellman and Bzdelik have a long-standing personal relationship. The hire was a head-scratcher from the beginning, and as widely expected, it did not pan out. In light of the overall decline in Wake basketball's stature (not to mention the Deacs' overall athletic slide) in recent years, Wellman just may be the next person out the door. He is no more popular among Deac fans than was Bzdelik.

why Gaudio is not coaching somewhere.

SoCal

wilson
03-21-2014, 10:29 AM
why Gaudio is not coaching somewhere.

SoCalHe's been doing a fair amount of TV work (and doing a pretty good job, in my opinion). A number of former coaches have discussed how they enjoyed the lower-stress environment of analysts' work, and it's also presumably a reasonably well-paying gig. Lots of guys have spent several years in the studio, biding their time and being very picky about opportunities before heading back to the sidelines. I suspect this may have something to do with Gaudio's current situation.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-21-2014, 10:48 AM
I think this is a bit much. My brother is a Wake grad, and he and his friends disliked the Bzdelik hire because it smacked so clearly of nepotism. Ron Wellman fired Dino Gaudio after three straight NCAA tournament appearances, in favor of a coach (Bzdelik) in his late 50s, with a losing career postseason record, only one all-time NCAAT appearance and a losing record at his last stop before Winston-Salem (Colorado). When pressed for the reasons behind Gaudio's firing, Wellman cited his losing postseason record, yet he replaced Gaudio with a coach...with a losing postseason record. On top of that, the hire was made very swiftly, and Wellman and Bzdelik have a long-standing personal relationship. The hire was a head-scratcher from the beginning, and as widely expected, it did not pan out. In light of the overall decline in Wake basketball's stature (not to mention the Deacs' overall athletic slide) in recent years, Wellman just may be the next person out the door. He is no more popular among Deac fans than was Bzdelik.
These comments are a good description of what's happened. I live only a few miles from the Wake Forest campus. Discussions of such issues related to Wake Forest athletics have been taking ad nauseam everywhere from the campus to the newspaper to the grocery store.

wsb3
03-21-2014, 10:59 AM
why Gaudio is not coaching somewhere.

SoCal

Has Dino's name surfaced in job openings since he was fired by Wake? I don't recall any but maybe I missed it.

MPandolfi
03-21-2014, 11:45 AM
After the way he bashed the school for joining the ACC, I hope this (http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2014/03/report_jim_calh.html) is a joke.

CameronBornAndBred
03-21-2014, 12:06 PM
After the way he bashed the school for joining the ACC, I hope this (http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2014/03/report_jim_calh.html) is a joke.
Would be funny if he got to the ACC before the rest of the Huskies.

burnspbesq
03-21-2014, 01:34 PM
Would be funny if he got to the ACC before the rest of the Huskies.

Hard to imagine BC hiring a former BU guy (even if it was a long time ago).

brevity
03-21-2014, 02:04 PM
Hard to imagine BC hiring a former BU guy (even if it was a long time ago).

Hard to imagine Louisville hiring a former Kentucky guy.

Hard to imagine California hiring a former Stanford guy.

It happens.

Atlanta Duke
03-21-2014, 02:24 PM
After the way he bashed the school for joining the ACC, I hope this (http://www.boston.com/sports/colleges/extras/colleges_blog/2014/03/report_jim_calh.html) is a joke.

ESPN is claiming "multiple sources" on the Calhoun rumor

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10645781/jim-calhoun-interested-vacant-boston-college-coaching-job

Why not? My guess is the Tommy Amaker rumor was floated by those close to the program rather than Team Amaker - this may be coming from the same place - BC needs to create some buzz

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-21-2014, 02:29 PM
ESPN is claiming "multiple sources" on the Calhoun rumor

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10645781/jim-calhoun-interested-vacant-boston-college-coaching-job

Why not? My guess is the Tommy Amaker rumor was floated by those close to the program rather than Team Amaker - this may be coming from the same place - BC needs to create some buzz

Good lord. I do not like that man.

Calhoun, not Amaker, obviously.

hurleyfor3
03-21-2014, 02:33 PM
ESPN is claiming "multiple sources" on the Calhoun rumor

All that says is that Calhoun is interested in the job. Well, I'm interested in being the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

luburch
03-21-2014, 02:36 PM
That Coach K guy has lost in the first round 2 of the last 3 years. Can't imagine he'll be around much longer.

flyingdutchdevil
03-21-2014, 02:38 PM
All that says is that Calhoun is interested in the job. Well, I'm interested in being the CEO of Goldman Sachs.

Calhoun would be the best coach BC has ever had. Even if it's for a few years.

You? Well, you may also be the best CEO that GS has had. But I'd take the 55-year old with 31 years of experience, 18 vintage cars, 3 summer homes, and 1 24-carat gold partridge in a pear tree.

Henderson
03-21-2014, 02:39 PM
Jim Calhoun = Lance Armstrong.

Think about it.

BC: Don't go there. You'd just be Team RadioShack.

Think about that too.

luburch
03-21-2014, 04:34 PM
Buzz Williams to VT.

pfrduke
03-21-2014, 04:40 PM
Buzz Williams to VT.

Linky linky (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10648381/buzz-williams-leave-marquette-golden-eagles-coach-virginia-tech-hokies)

That's a great hire for Virginia Tech. I wonder, too, if Buzz makes that move if the old Big East is still around - there may be some degree of conference prestige that's a part of this move.

Duvall
03-21-2014, 05:02 PM
Linky linky (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10648381/buzz-williams-leave-marquette-golden-eagles-coach-virginia-tech-hokies)

That's a great hire for Virginia Tech. I wonder, too, if Buzz makes that move if the old Big East is still around - there may be some degree of conference prestige that's a part of this move.

Requiem for the Big East indeed. Are there any other AAC/Big East coaches that would make good fits for the BC and Wake vacancies?

pfrduke
03-21-2014, 05:26 PM
Requiem for the Big East indeed. Are there any other AAC/Big East coaches that would make good fits for the BC and Wake vacancies?

Mick Cronin's name has been tossed around. I'm not thrilled with his style, but hard to argue that he wouldn't be an improvement over what Wake and BC had before.

OldPhiKap
03-21-2014, 05:29 PM
Mick Cronin's name has been tossed around. I'm not thrilled with his style, but hard to argue that he wouldn't be an improvement over what Wake and BC had before.

Would love you to elaborate if you are so inclined, as I really no nothing about Cincy or him. Is he tied to that brawl with Xavier a few years ago?

pfrduke
03-21-2014, 05:38 PM
Would love you to elaborate if you are so inclined, as I really no nothing about Cincy or him. Is he tied to that brawl with Xavier a few years ago?

He was the coach at that time, but I don't know if that makes him tied to it in any particular way. I don't think Cronin was responsible for the brawl is what I'm saying.

His teams tend to play a physical, ugly up the game defense-first style. He's never had an offense better than 53rd in the country (2011 - with Kilpatrick, Yancy Gates, and Cashmere Wright), his teams play a slow pace (averaging 64 possessions or lower the last 4 years), and his teams never, ever, shoot the ball well.

My complaint is an aesthetic one - I don't find Cincinnati games enjoyable to watch - not that I think Cronin is a bad guy.

Duvall
03-21-2014, 05:39 PM
He was the coach at that time, but I don't know if that makes him tied to it in any particular way. I don't think Cronin was responsible for the brawl is what I'm saying.

His teams tend to play a physical, ugly up the game defense-first style. He's never had an offense better than 53rd in the country (2011 - with Kilpatrick, Yancy Gates, and Cashmere Wright), his teams play a slow pace (averaging 64 possessions or lower the last 4 years), and his teams never, ever, shoot the ball well.

Sounds about right for the new ACC.

pfrduke
03-21-2014, 05:58 PM
Sounds about right for the new ACC.

I hold out hope that the new ACC can start to trend back toward the old ACC in terms of style of play.

OldPhiKap
03-21-2014, 05:58 PM
I hold out hope that the new ACC can start to trend back toward the old ACC in terms of style of play.

Well, we're back to being a touch-foul league. So we have that part down.

Duvall
03-21-2014, 06:01 PM
Well, we're back to being a touch-foul league. So we have that part down.

Only on the perimeter. Unless by "touch" you mean "drawn blood."

OldPhiKap
03-21-2014, 06:01 PM
Only on the perimeter. Unless by "touch" you mean "drawn blood."

All touch up from, all body in back.

Kinda like a bad mullet.

WiJoe
03-21-2014, 06:34 PM
buzz williams will get his team to play extremely hard. However, I wouldn't believe him if he said the sun rises in the east. He spends more time out of the coach's box than in it. Mocked West Virginia when he won there a few seasons back.

sagegrouse
03-21-2014, 06:35 PM
BC needs to create some buzz

VPI beat them to it.

OldPhiKap
03-21-2014, 06:38 PM
VPI beat them to it.

Well, Buzz Peterson is out there somewhere. As is Bzdelik.

Henderson
03-21-2014, 07:31 PM
How long will Oregon State let Craig Robinson go? There were such high expectations for him when he came in, and the fact that he's the POTUS brother in law didn't hurt. In fact, it doesn't hurt. Every year he plays some team in the D.C. area at which Barack attends and meets the players. He's had some solid recruits, but his team just isn't getting things done on the court. Year after year. He just completed his sixth season at OSU, and so far he's appeared in three post-season tournaments, all just the CBI. This year he's watching TV just like last year. He's 39-59 at Oregon State, finishing 8th, 5th, 9th, 9th, 12th, and 10th in the Pac-12. In 8 years of coaching (Brown then Oregon State), he has a losing record.

Bob DeCarolis is a pretty mellow AD, and Ed Ray (OSU's President) isn't one to get involved in such things. But there have to be limits. Even for the brother in law of the President.

CrazyNotCrazie
03-21-2014, 08:05 PM
Mick Cronin's name has been tossed around. I'm not thrilled with his style, but hard to argue that he wouldn't be an improvement over what Wake and BC had before.

During the Cincy game they mentioned that Cronin is from Cincy and his dad is a coaching legend there. This might be his dream job, even if the conference is down.

I think Tommy would be nuts to leave Harvard for BC. Hopefully he is smart enough to recognize a good situation and not go somewhere where he is setting himself up to fail.

FerryFor50
03-21-2014, 08:08 PM
Well, Buzz Peterson is out there somewhere. As is Bzdelik.

They'd be better off with this Buzz:

4014

OldPhiKap
03-21-2014, 08:28 PM
They'd be better off with this Buzz:

4014

I've got a good buzz going right now, FWIW.

Henderson
03-21-2014, 09:38 PM
I've got a good buzz going right now, FWIW.

Go easy, OPK, or you'll lose Woody. And you're Lightyears ahead of me, but I'm in the Pacific Time Zone.

Billy Dat
03-22-2014, 08:47 AM
Buzz Williams is the real deal. His bruiser demeanor belies a sharp basketball mind that is 100% aligned with the advanced analytics. VTech should be really good again quickly.

theAlaskanBear
03-22-2014, 08:51 AM
Buzz Williams is the real deal. His bruiser demeanor belies a sharp basketball mind that is 100% aligned with the advanced analytics. VTech should be really good again quickly.

Yes, and my proclamation the other day that VT would be in the gutter for years became immediately irrelevant.

Billy Dat
03-22-2014, 08:56 AM
Yes, and my proclamation the other day that VT would be in the gutter for years became immediately irrelevant.

Every game with his teams is a rock fight. If BC and Wake nail their hires in a similar fashion, with Pitino coming in, the ACC will soon have few if any expected wins on the schedule. It's going to be fun...I think!

Olympic Fan
03-22-2014, 11:25 AM
Buzz Williams is the real deal. His bruiser demeanor belies a sharp basketball mind that is 100% aligned with the advanced analytics. VTech should be really good again quickly.

Really good again?

When were they "really good" the first time?

This is a program with one Sweet 16 appearance in history -- in 1967. They've won two NCAA games since 1980. The greatest moment in school history is winning the NIT.

All that said, I think Buzz Williams is an amazing hire. For all his issues, he's MUCH better than anybody I thought they would get. He inherits at least four promising young players from Johnson (Thompson and Van Zegeran up front, Devin Wilson and Ben Emelogu at guard). I think they could be better -- middle of the ACC pack -- very quickly.

But before they are "really good" he's going to have to recruit better than any CPI coach has recruited in a long time.

Billy Dat
03-22-2014, 11:59 AM
Really good again?

When were they "really good" the first time?



Ha, good point. Despite Greenberg's magnetic attachment to the wrong side of the bubble, I always thought his team's played hard and got up for our games, especially at their place. Yes, they tended to be dirty but they were tough. I think that's what I meant. I have admired Williams for some time, even thinking that he might be an interesting K successor as their demeanors are very similar. I love the way his teams play defense.

Billy Dat
03-23-2014, 05:36 AM
Is the Buzz Williams move a paradigm shift where ambitious coaches will look to land at schools with major established football programs because of the shifting tectonic conference plates? The conventional wisdom used to be, "Do I want to be overshadowed by the football program?" Now, maybe its shifted and the thinking is, "Without football, what is going to happen to the basketball program?"

loran16
03-23-2014, 08:54 AM
Is the Buzz Williams move a paradigm shift where ambitious coaches will look to land at schools with major established football programs because of the shifting tectonic conference plates? The conventional wisdom used to be, "Do I want to be overshadowed by the football program?" Now, maybe its shifted and the thinking is, "Without football, what is going to happen to the basketball program?"

Probably not - Buzz also had the situation where there was uncertain leadership at the University (no AD atm) and there was friction between him and the administration even when there was one for a few years.

Cameron
03-24-2014, 04:09 PM
Per Andy Katz, both Wake Forest and Marquette have reached out to VCU coach Shaka Smart.

Not sure he'd want to compete with Roy and K in-state, but I think it'd be an excellent hire for the ACC and, more importantly, Wake Forest, which, as many here have touched upon, is a sleeping giant. It was just five years ago that the Demon Deacons were the No. 1 team in the land. With the right coach, Wake Forest can compete for national championships.

For what it's worth, Smart was born and raised in Wisconsin. If Smart is interested in the UNC job, as many speculate, Marquette might be a good layover along the way.

Des Esseintes
03-24-2014, 05:50 PM
Per Andy Katz, both Wake Forest and Marquette have reached out to VCU coach Shaka Smart.

Not sure he'd want to compete with Roy and K in-state, but I think it'd be an excellent hire for the ACC and, more importantly, Wake Forest, which, as many here have touched upon, is a sleeping giant. It was just five years ago that the Demon Deacons were the No. 1 team in the land. With the right coach, Wake Forest can compete for national championships.

For what it's worth, Smart was born and raised in Wisconsin. If Smart is interested in the UNC job, as many speculate, Marquette might be a good layover along the way.

I think it impoverishes the definition to call Wake a "sleeping giant." Wake has a smaller enrollment than Duke, and its basketball legacy comes in fourth in its own state. The program isn't even particularly close to third place. South Carolina was once a #2 seed in the NCAA tournament. Are they a sleeping giant? St. Joseph's was ranked #1 in 2004. Are they a sleeping giant?

Cameron
03-24-2014, 06:12 PM
I think it impoverishes the definition to call Wake a "sleeping giant." Wake has a smaller enrollment than Duke, and its basketball legacy comes in fourth in its own state. The program isn't even particularly close to third place. South Carolina was once a #2 seed in the NCAA tournament. Are they a sleeping giant? St. Joseph's was ranked #1 in 2004. Are they a sleeping giant?

I deem Wake Forest a great destination because basketball is the primary focus of the fans, it's in a great hoops-centered conference in a state that is rich in talent and crazy about the sport, and has a good enough history (even if not on a Final Four level) with some remarkable NBA alumni. It's also an elite academic institution, which clearly helps in recruiting certain players (Jabari, for example). So in that sense, I think Wake Forest is a potential giant that is asleep.

I also consider Texas a "sleeping giant," given its vast resources, immense and loyal fan base, and the sheer money it could throw at any coach it wants. But I suppose you'd have a problem with that as well considering the success the Longhorns haven't enjoyed on a national championship level.

Maybe "attractive job" would suffice.

Des Esseintes
03-24-2014, 06:26 PM
I deem Wake Forest a great destination because basketball is the primary focus of the fans, it's in a great hoops-centered conference in a state that is rich in talent and crazy about the sport, and has a good enough history (even if not on a Final Four level) with some remarkable NBA alumni. It's also an elite academic institution, which clearly helps in recruiting certain players (Jabari, for example). So in that sense, I think Wake Forest is a potential giant that is asleep.

I also consider Texas a "sleeping giant," given its vast resources, immense and loyal fan base, and the sheer money it could throw at any coach it wants. But I suppose you'd have a problem with that as well considering the success the Longhorns haven't enjoyed on a national championship level.

Maybe "attractive job" would suffice.

Texas is a good job. Wake, we'll agree to disagree. When Dave Odom jumps to South Carolina from your school, your school is not an attractive job. When Dino Gaudio takes two straight teams to the NCAA tournament and gets fired despite the conspicuous lack of "Final Four level" history, your school becomes an even less attractive job.

brevity
03-24-2014, 06:46 PM
Is Wake Forest a sleeping giant? No, but I wouldn't poke Billy Packer with a stick if he's napping.

To outsiders it may seem like Wake is the lone ACC presence in western North Carolina, and that makes it an appealing destination. But natives of the area know the reality. I grew up there, blissfully unaware of sports, and only knew of UNC, NC State, and Clemson. Duke and Wake did not exist in that dojo.

throatybeard
03-24-2014, 10:31 PM
I think it impoverishes the definition to call Wake a "sleeping giant." Wake has a smaller enrollment than Duke, and its basketball legacy comes in fourth in its own state. The program isn't even particularly close to third place. South Carolina was once a #2 seed in the NCAA tournament. Are they a sleeping giant? St. Joseph's was ranked #1 in 2004. Are they a sleeping giant?

I might put them fifth after Davidson, at this point. I'm not tryna be cute here, either.

Cameron
03-24-2014, 10:42 PM
Skip Prosser demonstrated that Wake Forest can be a national power in the post Dave-Odom-leaving-for-South-Carolina era, and had he not passed away, the Demon Deacons very easily might have won a national championship.

I agree that the Dino Guadio situation turned out very badly and might serve as a cause for concern for some coaches. There is absolutely no reason he should have been fired that soon into his tenure, just a year removed from fielding an AP No. 1 team. Not sure what provoked such a happy trigger finger in that situation, aside from the loss to Cleveland State in the 2010 NCAA Tournament. Upsets happen. Maybe Ron Wellman is the real problem or some other administrator(s). If that issue, whatever it is, is ever resolved, with the right coach, Wake can win again on the national stage.

Des Esseintes
03-25-2014, 12:44 AM
Skip Prosser demonstrated that Wake Forest can be a national power in the post Dave-Odom-leaving-for-South-Carolina era, and had he not passed away, the Demon Deacons very easily might have won a national championship.

I agree that the Dino Guadio situation turned out very badly and might serve as a cause for concern for some coaches. There is absolutely no reason he should have been fired that soon into his tenure, just a year removed from fielding an AP No. 1 team. Not sure what provoked such a happy trigger finger in that situation, aside from the loss to Cleveland State in the 2010 NCAA Tournament. Upsets happen. Maybe Ron Wellman is the real problem or some other administrator(s). If that issue, whatever it is, is ever resolved, with the right coach, Wake can win again on the national stage.

Look, this is uncomfortable because the guy died, but Skip Prosser was not that great of a coach. Here is his record at Wake:

2001–02 21–13 Second Round
2002–03 25–6 Second Round
2003–04 21–10 Sweet 16 (WITH CHRIS PAUL)
2004–05 27–6 Second Round (WITH CHRIS PAUL)
2005–06 17–17 NIT First Round
2006–07 15–16 --

What about this record screams "national championship contender" to you? To my eyes, Wake was headed downhill with Skip, not up. Gaudio righted the ship. Had he lived, I think the chances that Skip would have coached himself out of a job far outweigh those that he would have made a Final Four at Wake.

hurleyfor3
03-25-2014, 01:08 AM
Wake Forest is college basketball's Chicago Cubs. Nothing they try will matter. Ever. Maybe they will look good some years, but again, they are college basketball's Chicago Cubs.

Matches
03-25-2014, 07:49 AM
Gaudio righted the ship at Wake with Prosser's recruits. Prosser was really starting to land A-list guys right before he passed - had he lived, there's every reason to believe he was on the verge of elevating Wake to perennial contender status. Don't let the second-round exit from the 2005 NCAAT fool you, either - that team was really good.

With that said, I'm not sure I'd agree with the "sleeping giant" label for Wake, but that program should be much better than it is - maybe a "sleeping kind of tall guy"?

Cameron
03-25-2014, 08:24 AM
Gaudio righted the ship at Wake with Prosser's recruits. Prosser was really starting to land A-list guys right before he passed - had he lived, there's every reason to believe he was on the verge of elevating Wake to perennial contender status. Don't let the second-round exit from the 2005 NCAAT fool you, either - that team was really good.

With that said, I'm not sure I'd agree with the "sleeping giant" label for Wake, but that program should be much better than it is - maybe a "sleeping kind of tall guy"?

I can live with that.

I like when the ACC, save for a team or two, is great and I will root for Wake Forest to land a top notch hire and turn the program back into a player on the national level. Those that don't want that or think that can't happen are entitled to that opinion.

sagegrouse
03-25-2014, 08:50 AM
Skip Prosser demonstrated that Wake Forest can be a national power in the post Dave-Odom-leaving-for-South-Carolina era, and had he not passed away, the Demon Deacons very easily might have won a national championship.

I agree that the Dino Guadio situation turned out very badly and might serve as a cause for concern for some coaches. There is absolutely no reason he should have been fired that soon into his tenure, just a year removed from fielding an AP No. 1 team. Not sure what provoked such a happy trigger finger in that situation, aside from the loss to Cleveland State in the 2010 NCAA Tournament. Upsets happen. Maybe Ron Wellman is the real problem or some other administrator(s). If that issue, whatever it is, is ever resolved, with the right coach, Wake can win again on the national stage.

From discussions at the time of Dino's demise: (a) He was a caretaker; the assistant who was canned at Army and who got the job only because Prosser died in the summer. (b) His recruiting produced knuckleheads who could play some ball but were loose cannons off the court. (c) His tournament performance was awful.

Wellman made a decision to upgrade the coaching position. The huge problem in that specific move is that Gaudio had a gaudy win-loss record and Bzdelik had a poor one at Colorado (although he had won elsewhere). It looked like a really dumb move to the average Deac, and Bzdelik never showed anything that would change the mind of Deacon fans.

It's great to be in charge, Ron, but some boulders are too heavy to push up the hill.

Cameron
03-25-2014, 10:27 AM
From discussions at the time of Dino's demise: (a) He was a caretaker; the assistant who was canned at Army and who got the job only because Prosser died in the summer. (b) His recruiting produced knuckleheads who could play some ball but were loose cannons off the court. (c) His tournament performance was awful.

Wellman made a decision to upgrade the coaching position. The huge problem in that specific move is that Gaudio had a gaudy win-loss record and Bzdelik had a poor one at Colorado (although he had won elsewhere). It looked like a really dumb move to the average Deac, and Bzdelik never showed anything that would change the mind of Deacon fans.

It's great to be in charge, Ron, but some boulders are too heavy to push up the hill.

Thanks for the feedback. That's pretty much how I remember most of it, especially Gaudio essentially being viewed as a stopgap until "someone bigger" could be had. Unfortunately for Wake, Adolph Rupp was dead and the sudden firing of Gaudio in the wake of Prosser's death, despite a record of 44 wins and two NCAA appearances in a span of two years, probably cooled other coaches on interest in the program at the time. So Wake ultimately resorted to a Want Ad and got a call from a random guy from Air Force with a middling record.

Fun Fact: Ron Wellman's brother was my high school guidance counselor. If I ever see him again, I will be sure to inquire as to why his brother always sees to it that Duke's first round opponent is a veteran unit that has played together since kindergarten.

jv001
03-25-2014, 01:48 PM
From discussions at the time of Dino's demise: (a) He was a caretaker; the assistant who was canned at Army and who got the job only because Prosser died in the summer. (b) His recruiting produced knuckleheads who could play some ball but were loose cannons off the court. (c) His tournament performance was awful.

Wellman made a decision to upgrade the coaching position. The huge problem in that specific move is that Gaudio had a gaudy win-loss record and Bzdelik had a poor one at Colorado (although he had won elsewhere). It looked like a really dumb move to the average Deac, and Bzdelik never showed anything that would change the mind of Deacon fans.

It's great to be in charge, Ron, but some boulders are too heavy to push up the hill.

You have hit the nail on the head. Wellman saw that some of Gaudio's recruits were like you say, knuckleheads. Therefore he brought in someone he knew personally to go in a different direction with recruiting. The mistake came from hiring someone with a losing track record. If he had brought in a better coach that would have done the same thing(clean house), the program might not be in the shape it is now. And as Jay Bilas has said, it might be hard to get a good coach, because of the way some bonehead fans acted. Us, Duke fans might well keep that in mind down the road. GoDuke!

Atlanta Duke
03-26-2014, 09:58 AM
Resume fraud strikes again

Manhattan coach Steve Masiello never graduated from the University of Kentucky, as indicated on his résumé, and his falsifying this information eliminated him from getting the University of South Florida job, multiple sources told ESPN.com on Wednesday.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10675532/south-florida-bulls-kill-coaching-deal-steve-masiello-lying-resume

Henderson
03-26-2014, 08:17 PM
Criminy. Lying on your resume by claiming to have graduated from Kentucky with a degree in communications is like trying to pick up girls by claiming falsely to drive a Chevette.

OldPhiKap
03-26-2014, 08:47 PM
Criminy. Lying on your resume by claiming to have graduated from Kentucky with a degree in communications is like trying to pick up girls by claiming falsely to drive a Chevette.

Reminds me of a great scene from The Untouchables, where the local cop (Sean Connery) turns his back on Elliot Ness (Kevin Costner) after The cop finds that Ness is armed:

Malone: OK, pal, why the mahaska? Why are you carrying the gun?
Ness: I'm a treasury officer.
Malone: Alright. Just remember what we talked about now.
[Malone walks away]
Ness: Hey, wait a minute! What the hell kind of policemen you got in this *** **** city? You just turned your back on an armed man.
Malone: You're a treasury officer.
Ness: How do you know that? I just told you that.
Malone: Who would claim to be that who was not? Hmm?

wsb3
03-27-2014, 06:37 AM
http://www.wect.com/story/25086696/uncw-expected-to-name-kevin-keatts-head-basketball-coach

sagegrouse
03-27-2014, 06:42 AM
http://www.wect.com/story/25086696/uncw-expected-to-name-kevin-keatts-head-basketball-coach

Money Quote:


Louisville Associate Head Basketball Coach Kevin Keatts is expected to be named the next coach at UNCW as early as Thursday, according to a report by Frank Giardina out of West Virginia.

Tripping William
03-27-2014, 06:51 AM
You have hit the nail on the head. Wellman saw that some of Gaudio's recruits were like you say, knuckleheads. Therefore he brought in someone he knew personally to go in a different direction with recruiting. The mistake came from hiring someone with a losing track record. If he had brought in a better coach that would have done the same thing(clean house), the program might not be in the shape it is now. And as Jay Bilas has said, it might be hard to get a good coach, because of the way some bonehead fans acted. Us, Duke fans might well keep that in mind down the road. GoDuke!

As a resident of Winston-Salem through all of this, you are exactly right. Wellman's additional mistake was saying that Gaudio was canned because of "lack of postseason success." Many here took that for what it was (a pretext), but it gave people something easy to which to point when Bzdelik did not exceed (or even approach) Gaudio's "postseason success."

superdave
03-27-2014, 07:38 AM
So who is Wake actually targeting?

I assume Shaka Smart is not realistic. I would target Gregg Marshall, Archie Miller, Ben Howland (Marquette?). Sounds like Chris Mack of Xavier is fairly likely. He was an assistant under Skip from 2001-2004 then went to Xavier as an assistant.

Anyone else in play here?

OldPhiKap
03-27-2014, 07:52 AM
So who is Wake actually targeting?

I assume Shaka Smart is not realistic. I would target Gregg Marshall, Archie Miller, Ben Howland (Marquette?). Sounds like Chris Mack of Xavier is fairly likely. He was an assistant under Skip from 2001-2004 then went to Xavier as an assistant.

Anyone else in play here?

Archie Miller recently signed a nice extension with Dayton, I believe.

wilson
03-27-2014, 07:56 AM
Archie Miller recently signed a nice extension with Dayton, I believe.As Steve Alford (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/steve-alford-locked-dispute-mexico-over-1-million-142752435.html), et al can attest, that doesn't necessarily take Miller off the market.

Atlanta Duke
03-27-2014, 08:00 AM
So who is Wake actually targeting?

I assume Shaka Smart is not realistic. I would target Gregg Marshall, Archie Miller, Ben Howland (Marquette?). Sounds like Chris Mack of Xavier is fairly likely. He was an assistant under Skip from 2001-2004 then went to Xavier as an assistant.

Anyone else in play here?

Archie Miller apparently has been extended through 2018-19 - Dayton was not going to wait until their season ends to try and lock him down

That should take Miller out of circulation until the end of next season - of course that did not stop Steve Alford from jumping to UCLA immediately after signing a term sheet for a 10 year extension with New Mexico

Henderson
03-27-2014, 09:31 AM
Archie Miller apparently has been extended through 2018-19 - Dayton was not going to wait until their season ends to try and lock him down

That should take Miller out of circulation until the end of next season - of course that did not stop Steve Alford from jumping to UCLA immediately after signing a term sheet for a 10 year extension with New Mexico

It doesn't lock him down or take him out of circulation. It just makes him more expensive. These contracts are one-way commitments, as many examples show. The Alford case was just especially egregious because of the timing and length of the extension he signed.

OldPhiKap
03-27-2014, 09:39 AM
As Steve Alford (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/steve-alford-locked-dispute-mexico-over-1-million-142752435.html), et al can attest, that doesn't necessarily take Miller off the market.


Archie Miller apparently has been extended through 2018-19 - Dayton was not going to wait until their season ends to try and lock him down

That should take Miller out of circulation until the end of next season - of course that did not stop Steve Alford from jumping to UCLA immediately after signing a term sheet for a 10 year extension with New Mexico


It doesn't lock him down or take him out of circulation. It just makes him more expensive. These contracts are one-way commitments, as many examples show. The Alford case was just especially egregious because of the timing and length of the extension he signed.

All of the above is true. I think there are two differences, though. First, not sure Wake has the same money that UCLA has to buy out the contract. Second, I think that Dayton to Wake is a lateral move at best, and arguably is taking a worse job competing in a better conference. Dayton has been clicking for a few years now and Miller stepped into a competitive program left behind by Gregory and others before him (this is something like their fifth NCAA appearance in the last fifteen years or so IIRC). Wake is a resurrection project, whose AD (i.e. your boss) may be a dead man walking and subject to change.

Atlanta Duke
03-27-2014, 10:56 AM
It doesn't lock him down or take him out of circulation. It just makes him more expensive. These contracts are one-way commitments, as many examples show. The Alford case was just especially egregious because of the timing and length of the extension he signed.

Oh I agree he is only out of circulation until 2015 - but unless you have Alford level chutzpah you do not bail within a month of signing off on the extension. The only question is whether your new employer wants to pay the amount of the buyout clause (Alford and New Mexico got bogged down on whether he needed to pay the amount of the buyout under his previous contract or the term sheet he signed with a bigger buyout amount).

Of course rocks were being tossed at Alford last year - now he is in the Sweet Sixteen and all is forgiven. Just win baby!

lotusland
03-27-2014, 11:26 AM
All of the above is true. I think there are two differences, though. First, not sure Wake has the same money that UCLA has to buy out the contract. Second, I think that Dayton to Wake is a lateral move at best, and arguably is taking a worse job competing in a better conference. Dayton has been clicking for a few years now and Miller stepped into a competitive program left behind by Gregory and others before him (this is something like their fifth NCAA appearance in the last fifteen years or so IIRC). Wake is a resurrection project, whose AD (i.e. your boss) may be a dead man walking and subject to change.

If Dayton to Wake is lateral then Greg Marshall is also unlikely. He's already eliminated himself from consideration for jobs at UCLA, NCSU and South Carolina in the past. I don't know that Wake is a better situation than those. I rank NCSU higher and Marshall once considered SC his "dream job" albeit quite a few winning seasons ago. While I would not think the SC job is highly regarded, Dave Odom certainly thought those pastures were greener.

Irregardless I think Marshall is above Shaka at this point he can probably pick his situation when/if he decides to leave WSU at this point.

OldPhiKap
03-27-2014, 12:07 PM
If Dayton to Wake is lateral then Greg Marshall is also unlikely. He's already eliminated himself from consideration for jobs at UCLA, NCSU and South Carolina in the past. I don't know that Wake is a better situation than those. I rank NCSU higher and Marshall once considered SC his "dream job" albeit quite a few winning seasons ago. While I would not think the SC job is highly regarded, Dave Odom certainly thought those pastures were greener.

Irregardless I think Marshall is above Shaka at this point he can probably pick his situation when/if he decides to leave WSU at this point.

Yeah, I think Marshall is also unlikely.

Wake has two big problems. First, you have to worry that the AD is going to get canned and the new boss will create un unhappy situation. Hard to leave somewhere you are comfortable for somewhere with a lot of uncertainty and potential downside. Second, whoever comes in basically starts from zero in a league that has just gotten a whole lot tougher. You have to be able to compete with Duke, Carolina, Syracuse, Louisville, a resurgent UVa, an established Pitt program, a rising State program, etc. That is a tough road to an NCAA bid, let alone the top half of the conference.

I think they are much more likely to get a head assistant from a major program, than a successful mid-major head coach. Just my guess. (And I like Wake, FWIW)

Henderson
03-27-2014, 12:21 PM
Oh I agree he is only out of circulation until 2015

It's possible I don't understand something, but why is he out of circulation until 2015? He could leave today, couldn't he?

Olympic Fan
03-27-2014, 01:22 PM
Oh I agree he is only out of circulation until 2015 - but unless you have Alford level chutzpah you do not bail within a month of signing off on the extension. The only question is whether your new employer wants to pay the amount of the buyout clause (Alford and New Mexico got bogged down on whether he needed to pay the amount of the buyout under his previous contract or the term sheet he signed with a bigger buyout amount).

Of course rocks were being tossed at Alford last year - now he is in the Sweet Sixteen and all is forgiven. Just win baby!

Do we know that Miller has actually SIGNED his extension ... or just agreed to it?

I bring this up because of Fred Goldsmith. Back in December of 1993 when Duke was looking for a replacement for Barry Wilson, Goldsmith's name came up in the search. But he was almost immediately dismissed when he signed an extension at Rice. But it turned out that he had merely agreed to an extension in principle, but not only did he never sign anything, but he and the Rice administration could never finalize the deal ... hence when Tom O'Brien turned Duke down, Goldsmith was suddenly available again.

I honestly don't know Miller's situation. But I would be wary of taking the reported extension at face value. I agree with Henderson -- the news doesn't take him out of the mix, it just makes him more expensive. But I also agree with OldPhiKap -- I don't think Wake is willing to raise the ante as UCLA was. This probably takes him out of the mix.

PS There is internet chatter that Wake is talking to Frank Haith ... Wake fans are clinging to the dream of getting Shaka Smart.

tbyers11
03-27-2014, 01:36 PM
Do we know that Miller has actually SIGNED his extension ... or just agreed to it?

I bring this up because of Fred Goldsmith. Back in December of 1993 when Duke was looking for a replacement for Barry Wilson, Goldsmith's name came up in the search. But he was almost immediately dismissed when he signed an extension at Rice. But it turned out that he had merely agreed to an extension in principle, but not only did he never sign anything, but he and the Rice administration could never finalize the deal ... hence when Tom O'Brien turned Duke down, Goldsmith was suddenly available again.

I honestly don't know Miller's situation. But I would be wary of taking the reported extension at face value. I agree with Henderson -- the news doesn't take him out of the mix, it just makes him more expensive. But I also agree with OldPhiKap -- I don't think Wake is willing to raise the ante as UCLA was. This probably takes him out of the mix.

PS There is internet chatter that Wake is talking to Frank Haith ... Wake fans are clinging to the dream of getting Shaka Smart.

Shaka Smart is not going to Wake. If he turned down UCLA, Illinois, Minnesota and NC St in the last 2 years, why would he go to Wake now? His new contract signed last fall has a hefty buyout clause that dwindles over the next five years. He has pursued jobs the last few years as leverage for said contract. I think all the talk linking him to Marquette and Wake this week is just wishful thinking by those schools that has been blown out of proportion on Twitter.

Haith to Wake is interesting. I don't think Haith is that good of a coach, but I'm not sure that Wake can do much better.

Atlanta Duke
03-27-2014, 01:56 PM
It's possible I don't understand something, but why is he out of circulation until 2015? He could leave today, couldn't he?

As I said in my last post, Miller could leave whenever he wants. If he wanted to he could announce his departure during the post-game press conference after Dayton is eliminated or wins the national championship. The only financial impediment for terminating the contract for the coach is the cost of the buyout. But other than Alford there are few coaches that I recall have left within weeks of agreeing to an extension - for whatever reason that seems to be a line rarely crossed.

It would be pretty amazing if Miller bailed now after this story

"It's a privilege to be the head coach at the University of Dayton," Miller said in a statement. "We are thrilled about our future. The University of Dayton has everything it needs to be among the best. We have great fans, a totally committed administration, and the key pieces are in place."

Negotiations began in December and the extension was signed in February, but Miller asked that it not be announced during the regular season to avoid potential distractions.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2014/story/_/id/10665372/archie-miller-dayton-flyers-contract-extended-2018-19

The way these extensions seem to work is that it buys the school very short team peace. If the coach remains a hot commodity the school hopes it has a chance to tear up the contract before it expires and pay even more money. If the coach turns out to be terrible then you are stuck like Georgia Tech was when it bet wrong on Paul Hewitt being the next great coach and signed him up to a ridiculous contract after Tech's run to the national championship game in 2004.

Olympic Fan
03-27-2014, 02:07 PM
Shaka Smart is not going to Wake

I quite agree ... I just posted that to point out the delusions that are strong in any fan base (sort of like the large number of Duke fans who think Jabari Parker and/or Rodney Hood are coming back).

I also find the Haith rumors hard to follow. He's a guy who missed five games earlier this season, suspended for the scandal at Miami. I find it hard to believe that a holier-than-thou guy like Wellman would hire a tainted coach even if he does have strong NC roots (and was once a Wake assistant).

Right now, I can't guess who the Deacs get. It's not going to be Smart and it's not going to be Gregg Marshall. Mike White at Louisiana Tech? Chris Mooney at Richmond?

Henderson
03-28-2014, 11:05 PM
Dave Rice, current head coach at UNLV is said (http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unlv-s-rice-offered-head-coaching-job-south-florida) to be considering an offer from the University of South Florida that would pay him $1.2 million per year for five years. He currently makes $700K at UNLV and has three years left on his contract, with a two year extension under review. If he leaves, the supposed front runners for his spot are Shaka Smith, Reggie Theus and Ben Howland. I don't know who came up with that list of three (or how, given that the position is not yet vacant), but it seems pretty ambitious for UNLV.

Edit: Any coaching change at UNLV helps us with 2015 recruit Jeter. He grew up in Las Vegas, goes to HS in Las Vegas, his dad went to UNLV (publicly saying he'd like his son to go there too), and Dave Rice has been after him hard. Coincidentally, the day Rice was interviewing at USF, Coach K was in LV recruiting Jeter.

BD80
03-29-2014, 09:58 AM
Dave Rice, current head coach at UNLV is said (http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unlv-s-rice-offered-head-coaching-job-south-florida) to be considering an offer from the University of South Florida that would pay him $1.2 million per year for five years. He currently makes $700K at UNLV and has three years left on his contract, with a two year extension under review. If he leaves, the supposed front runners for his spot are Shaka Smith, Reggie Theus and Ben Howland. I don't know who came up with that list of three (or how, given that the position is not yet vacant), but it seems pretty ambitious for UNLV.

Edit: Any coaching change at UNLV helps us with 2015 recruit Jeter. He grew up in Las Vegas, goes to HS in Las Vegas, his dad went to UNLV (publicly saying he'd like his son to go there too), and Dave Rice has been after him hard. Coincidentally, the day Rice was interviewing at USF, Coach K was in LV recruiting Jeter.

The rumor alone helps us.

Tripping William
03-29-2014, 01:55 PM
Interesting take on Wake by Dan Collins of the W-S Journal, including the view of some (delusional) Deacs that landing Shaka Smart would be "settling":

http://m.journalnow.com/sports/wfu/my_take_on_wake/swinging-for-the-fences/article_ff3944e8-b699-11e3-b25e-0017a43b2370.html?mode=jqm

CameronBornAndBred
03-29-2014, 03:03 PM
So Marquette is after Tennessee coach Cuonzo Martin. I think Marquette is going to be telling for the future/status of the Big East. To me, it doesn't seem like an improvement for Martin if he were to go. Shaka Smart turned them down, Buzz Williams jumped to an ACC cellar dwellar; are they in for a rude awakening on possibly having to hire an up and comer instead of an established coach?
Here's one story's take on their position.
http://host.madison.com/sports/college/basketball/cory-jennerjohn-coaching-hire-just-one-way-for-marquette-to/article_51d47ad6-b36d-11e3-b8d8-0019bb2963f4.html

this is about the growing reality that Marquette cannot hang on to solid coaches

Merlindevildog91
03-29-2014, 05:27 PM
http://gocrimson.com/sports/mbkb/2013-14/releases/20140329za0aog

CameronBornAndBred
03-29-2014, 05:37 PM
http://gocrimson.com/sports/mbkb/2013-14/releases/20140329za0aog
That is good to hear, he truly enjoys being there.

sagegrouse
03-29-2014, 05:45 PM
http://gocrimson.com/sports/mbkb/2013-14/releases/20140329za0aog


That is good to hear, he truly enjoys being there.

Money quote:


"After thoughtful deliberation, I continue to realize my heart is at Harvard," Amaker stated. "To teach, lead and serve at this amazing institution, and in this special community, is truly meaningful to me."

No one makes a statement like Tommy's without a contract extension and more cash. Good for him. Harvard's $35 billion endowment can probably cover any athletic department fiscal issues. And I have read that basketball has become a unifying force on the fragmented Harvard campus.

brevity
03-29-2014, 07:54 PM
Dave Rice, current head coach at UNLV is said (http://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unlv-s-rice-offered-head-coaching-job-south-florida) to be considering an offer from the University of South Florida that would pay him $1.2 million per year for five years. He currently makes $700K at UNLV and has three years left on his contract, with a two year extension under review. If he leaves, the supposed front runners for his spot are Shaka Smith, Reggie Theus and Ben Howland. I don't know who came up with that list of three (or how, given that the position is not yet vacant), but it seems pretty ambitious for UNLV.

Edit: Any coaching change at UNLV helps us with 2015 recruit Jeter. He grew up in Las Vegas, goes to HS in Las Vegas, his dad went to UNLV (publicly saying he'd like his son to go there too), and Dave Rice has been after him hard. Coincidentally, the day Rice was interviewing at USF, Coach K was in LV recruiting Jeter.

Dave Rice is staying put (https://twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/450055404756561920), per Jeff Goodman on Twitter. UNLV has extended him through 2019. Which, I guess, makes the over/under 2017.

Jim3k
03-30-2014, 08:15 PM
Andy Katz says that Monty is meeting with Cal AD Sandy Barbour on Monday. If that job comes open, there will be a scramble. That's an elite job.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10698711/california-golden-bears-coach-mike-montgomery-meet-ad-sandy-barbour-monday

wilson
03-31-2014, 07:22 AM
According to CBS' Gary Parrish, Marquette is now focusing their efforts on Cuonzo Martin and Wojo. Parrish says "it appears one of those men will be the next head coach of the Golden Eagles."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24508408/cuonzo-martin-stevewojciechowski-now-among-marquette-candidates

The Gordog
03-31-2014, 07:35 AM
According to CBS' Gary Parrish, Marquette is now focusing their efforts on Cuonzo Martin and Wojo. Parrish says "it appears one of those men will be the next head coach of the Golden Eagles."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24508408/cuonzo-martin-stevewojciechowski-now-among-marquette-candidates

IF Wojo were to leave, does TT go directly to the sidelines at age 22?

superdave
03-31-2014, 07:43 AM
IF Wojo were to leave, does TT go directly to the sidelines at age 22?

No. TT should go play overseas a couple of seasons and learn some new tricks in a different system.

I could see Laettner pushing for the job. He has a BIG personality though, so I am not sure how that dynamic would play out. I could see Battier getting a look as someone else suggested. Either way, I would assume a coach with some defensive chops would be high on the priority list.

If Coach K were to look outside his universe of former players, I would assume someone associated with USA basketball would get a look.

Of course, Wojo's still here....

Troublemaker
03-31-2014, 07:51 AM
From Tyler's Senior Profile on GoDuke (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=209411052) -


GoDuke.com: What are three things you would like to do in the next 10 years?
TT: Play professionally somewhere, whether it is here in the states or in Europe. At some point I want to start a family – that is something I really want to do- and be a mentor for the younger guys coming up. My younger cousin and his team is coming up and they will be in college and to kind of be there for them and guide those guys in the right direction.

He will likely try his hand at coaching down the line. But sounds like he will play professionally for awhile first.

Reilly
03-31-2014, 08:04 AM
Pretty astounding claim on the front page that seems to not be true based on things I've read over the years.

-jk
03-31-2014, 08:08 AM
I thought Wade left Bama on his own terms, too. I'll check with Julian.

-jk

Henderson
03-31-2014, 08:12 AM
According to CBS' Gary Parrish, Marquette is now focusing their efforts on Cuonzo Martin and Wojo. Parrish says "it appears one of those men will be the next head coach of the Golden Eagles."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24508408/cuonzo-martin-stevewojciechowski-now-among-marquette-candidates

Wojo coaching Marquette would lend itself to an annual Marquette-Northwestern home-and-home series. The two schools are only 90 minutes apart. Heck, you could boat from one to the other. That'd be a pretty fun tradition to start: Opposing teams boating to play one another. Fans in their boats trailing along in a regatta.

BD80
03-31-2014, 08:20 AM
Wojo coaching Marquette would lend itself to an annual Marquette-Northwestern home-and-home series. The two schools are only 90 minutes apart. Heck, you could boat from one to the other. That'd be a pretty fun tradition to start: Opposing teams boating to play one another. Fans in their boats trailing along in a regatta.

On Lake Michigan in December, January or February? Fun? You must be of sturdy Scandinavian stock. Or a polar bear.

tbyers11
03-31-2014, 08:23 AM
Wojo coaching Marquette would lend itself to an annual Marquette-Northwestern home-and-home series. The two schools are only 90 minutes apart. Heck, you could boat from one to the other. That'd be a pretty fun tradition to start: Opposing teams boating to play one another. Fans in their boats trailing along in a regatta.

While a boating regatta sounds awesome, I don't think it would be a lot of fun in December on Lake Michigan. Maybe an ice fishing tournament in Kenosha, instead? :D

I think Marquette would be a good fit for Wojo. On top of the basketball reasons, there is a big Polish presence in Milwaukee. A name like Wojociechowski can't hurt.

Henderson
03-31-2014, 08:35 AM
While a boating regatta sounds awesome, I don't think it would be a lot of fun in December on Lake Michigan. Maybe an ice fishing tournament in Kenosha, instead? :D

I think Marquette would be a good fit for Wojo. On top of the basketball reasons, there is a big Polish presence in Milwaukee. A name like Wojociechowski can't hurt.

You know, I threw the idea out there without giving it much thought, but I'm "warming" to the idea of an annual Marquette-Northwestern game in which teams boat to play each other. Make it the first game of the season for both teams -- first weekend in November. Think of the publicity for both schools. Press at the docks on either end. Fans in a regatta with their usual tailgating accoutrements. If Green Bay fans will tailgate in November, Northwestern and Marquette fans will do it -- on the water. What a hoot! Remember that many boats do come with enclosed heated cabins.

And yes, I agree about the fit. Wojo is ready, and it's a good program with a good history but without unreasonable expectations.

pfrduke
03-31-2014, 08:43 AM
If Coach K were to look outside his universe of former players, I would assume someone associated with USA basketball would get a look.

This is likely a pipe dream, given K's emphasis on Duke family and the fact that, for at least the last 17 seasons (I think), the guys on the bench have exclusively been alums, but I would love for some fresh blood that does not have Duke affiliation to come onto the coaching staff. I think the dynamic between K and his current assistants is necessarily colored by the fact that all have played for him and, with little exception (I think only Capel), have worked in college basketball exclusively for Duke. Someone who has been part of a different program with a different philosophy might bring a useful outside perspective to the mix. I'm not saying that person would result in a total overhaul of how we do things, nor do I want that to happen, but a different background might make the coaching discussions less homogeneous and introduce more opportunity for variation in pursuit of team success.

ETA: I should add that this request is only to the extent a coaching position comes open. I would not replace any of our current guys just for the sake of new blood, but if we are in a position of needing a replacement, I would like the search not to be confined to people who played for Duke.

sagegrouse
03-31-2014, 08:45 AM
Pretty astounding claim on the front page that seems to not be true based on things I've read over the years.


I thought Wade left Bama on his own terms, too. I'll check with Julian.

-jk

After Duke University was created, it had more money than anyone. It hired (bought) Wallace Wade from Alabama.

The Med School was founded in 1930 and took stars from all over the place, including the illustrious Deryl Hart from Johns Hopkins, who is -jk and Julio's grandfather . Dr. Hart was Chairman of the Surgery Department before becoming interim and later permanent President of Duke from 1960 to 1963. His home is now the residence of President Brodhead.

sagegrouse
03-31-2014, 08:55 AM
After Duke University was created, it had more money than anyone. It hired (bought) Wallace Wade from Alabama.

The Med School was founded in 1930 and took stars from all over the place, including the illustrious Deryl Hart from Johns Hopkins, who is -jk and Julio's grandfather . Dr. Hart was Chairman of the Surgery Department before becoming interim and later permanent President of Duke from 1960 to 1963. His home is now the residence of President Brodhead.

Moreover, Wallace Wade was 10-0 his last season at Bama and won the Rose Bowl by beating Washington State. His overall record appears to be 61-13-4 with three Rose Bowls (two wins and a tie). Doesn't sound like a guy who got fired after the 1930 season, does it?

wncgrad
03-31-2014, 09:32 AM
Wallace Wade came to Duke voluntarily. Dean Wannamaker, Chair of the Athletic Committee, wrote him asking for a recommendation for the vacant position. Much to Wannamaker and President Few's surprise Wade said he would be interested in the job. Since he was considered one of the best coaches at the time they interviewed him quickly, confirmed his interest, and offered him the position. He stayed at Alabama one more year to honor a contract and ironically took that team to the Rose Bowl.
Wade wanted a change to a private school seeking less political interest (and interference?) in the program. I believe he had been an assistant coach at Vanderbilt where he observed the difference between private and state institutions. Duke promised support for him and the program. Wade also liked the physical education and intramural programs in place for undergraduates.

tommy
03-31-2014, 10:46 AM
Wojo coaching Marquette would lend itself to an annual Marquette-Northwestern home-and-home series. The two schools are only 90 minutes apart. Heck, you could boat from one to the other. That'd be a pretty fun tradition to start: Opposing teams boating to play one another. Fans in their boats trailing along in a regatta.

But everyone knows Wojo, as a little guy, can only coach coxswain, and would have no credibility trying to coach Strokes.

Olympic Fan
03-31-2014, 12:35 PM
Wallace Wade came to Duke voluntarily. Dean Wannamaker, Chair of the Athletic Committee, wrote him asking for a recommendation for the vacant position. Much to Wannamaker and President Few's surprise Wade said he would be interested in the job. Since he was considered one of the best coaches at the time they interviewed him quickly, confirmed his interest, and offered him the position. He stayed at Alabama one more year to honor a contract and ironically took that team to the Rose Bowl.
Wade wanted a change to a private school seeking less political interest (and interference?) in the program. I believe he had been an assistant coach at Vanderbilt where he observed the difference between private and state institutions. Duke promised support for him and the program. Wade also liked the physical education and intramural programs in place for undergraduates.

Absolutely correct ... and sage is also right that Duke quite simply bought Wade. In the spring of 1930, he was negotiating a new deal with Alabama ... he was offered five years for $8,000 a year -- a very good salary at the time. Duke offered $12,000 a year, plus a share of the gate (estimated worth was over $100,000 over the five years of the contract).

THAT was a fortune in the first year of the Great Depression.

wilson
03-31-2014, 12:48 PM
Another, fairly significant update on the Marquette job: ESPN is reporting that Wojo is Marquette's leading candidate. According to this story, it's unclear whether Cuonzo Martin is even interested in a conversation with Marquette, so MU "is targeting Duke associate head coach Steve Wojciechowski for its vacant coaching job." Also mentioned in the piece: Ben Howland, who would seem to have a strike against him in light of his acrimonious departure from his last job (UCLA) and (I think?) an NCAA violation or two in his past.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10699928/marquette-golden-eagles-target-steve-wojciechowski-coaching-job
Edit: Adrian Wojnarowkski of Yahoo Sports is also reporting this.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--marquette-targeting-duke-assistant-steve-wojciechowski-in-coaching-search-225509835-ncaab.html

GGLC
03-31-2014, 02:43 PM
I would love to see Shane on the bench if Wojo goes to Marquette, assuming Shane was interested.

I also wholeheartedly sign on to pfrduke's post about new blood.

BD80
03-31-2014, 03:21 PM
Monty retires at Cal. More seats opening up in this complicated matrix of musical chairs.

I'd put Cal as the best job currently open - unless ol' roy is enjoying spring on the golf course so much that he has decided not to return.

superdave
03-31-2014, 03:25 PM
Monty retires at Cal. More seats opening up in this complicated matrix of musical chairs.

I'd put Cal as the best job currently open - unless ol' roy is enjoying spring on the golf course so much that he has decided not to return.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10704113/california-golden-bears-coach-mike-montgomery-retiring

SoCalDukeFan
03-31-2014, 03:26 PM
Another, fairly significant update on the Marquette job: ESPN is reporting that Wojo is Marquette's leading candidate. According to this story, it's unclear whether Cuonzo Martin is even interested in a conversation with Marquette, so MU "is targeting Duke associate head coach Steve Wojciechowski for its vacant coaching job." Also mentioned in the piece: Ben Howland, who would seem to have a strike against him in light of his acrimonious departure from his last job (UCLA) and (I think?) an NCAA violation or two in his past.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10699928/marquette-golden-eagles-target-steve-wojciechowski-coaching-job
Edit: Adrian Wojnarowkski of Yahoo Sports is also reporting this.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--marquette-targeting-duke-assistant-steve-wojciechowski-in-coaching-search-225509835-ncaab.html

Evidently Shabazz Muhammad's got a loan but not sure Howland implicated at all. I think he would be a great fit at Marquette as I think he does better with blue collar types rather than blue chippers. He is an excellent coach but I thought, as did UCLA, that they needed a change.

While they won't, it would be great if Cal hired Wojo and he could go up against Johnny D twice a year.

SoCal

CameronBornAndBred
03-31-2014, 03:43 PM
While they won't, it would be great if Cal hired Wojo and he could go up against Johnny D twice a year.

SoCal
I would rather see Wojo and Collins go head to head. They are closer in age than JD, although I'd take that matchup too!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
03-31-2014, 04:01 PM
From the Twitterverse, via Adam Rowe:

Adam Rowe ‏@BlueDevilLair Moving fast. RT @stevewisemanNC Duke assistant Steve Wojciechowski is interviewing with Marquette officials today, sources said.

CameronBornAndBred
03-31-2014, 04:29 PM
From the Twitterverse, via Adam Rowe:

Adam Rowe ‏@BlueDevilLair Moving fast. RT @stevewisemanNC Duke assistant Steve Wojciechowski is interviewing with Marquette officials today, sources said.
Good luck, Wojo!!

brevity
03-31-2014, 04:44 PM
From the Twitterverse, via Adam Rowe:

Adam Rowe ‏@BlueDevilLair Moving fast. RT @stevewisemanNC Duke assistant Steve Wojciechowski is interviewing with Marquette officials today, sources said.


Good luck, Wojo!!

In case Wojo needs some last-minute info...

Wayne Campbell: So, do you come to Milwaukee often?

Alice Cooper: Well, I'm a regular visitor here, but Milwaukee has certainly had its share of visitors. The French missionaries and explorers were coming here as early as the late 1600s to trade with the Native Americans.

Pete: In fact, isn't "Milwaukee" an Indian name?

Alice Cooper: Yes, Pete, it is. Actually, it's pronounced "mill-e-wah-que" which is Algonquin for "the good land."

Wayne Campbell: I was not aware of that.

OldPhiKap
03-31-2014, 04:52 PM
In case Wojo needs some last-minute info...

Wayne Campbell: So, do you come to Milwaukee often?

Alice Cooper: Well, I'm a regular visitor here, but Milwaukee has certainly had its share of visitors. The French missionaries and explorers were coming here as early as the late 1600s to trade with the Native Americans.

Pete: In fact, isn't "Milwaukee" an Indian name?

Alice Cooper: Yes, Pete, it is. Actually, it's pronounced "mill-e-wah-que" which is Algonquin for "the good land."

Wayne Campbell: I was not aware of that.

"Now she's gone and I'm to blame
Too late, I finally see
What's made Milwaukee famous
Has made a loser out of me."

- Jerry Lee Lewis

mr. synellinden
03-31-2014, 06:54 PM
ESPN link (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10705446/wake-forest-demon-deacons-interested-danny-manning)

gumbomoop
03-31-2014, 07:07 PM
"Now she's gone and I'm to blame
Too late, I finally see
What's made Milwaukee famous
Has made a loser out of me."

- Jerry Lee Lewis

Not to mention, "There's the beer that made Mel Famey walk us."

tommy
03-31-2014, 08:56 PM
Orlando Antigua to South Florida. Big time recruiter for Kentucky but I have a feeling they will continue w business as usual.

Henderson
03-31-2014, 09:04 PM
From the Twitterverse, via Adam Rowe:

Adam Rowe ‏@BlueDevilLair Moving fast. RT @stevewisemanNC Duke assistant Steve Wojciechowski is interviewing with Marquette officials today, sources said.

I hope he takes that job so some other school will have a coach whose name is harder to spell than ours.

hurleyfor3
03-31-2014, 10:39 PM
Orlando Antigua to South Florida.

I flew that on USAir once.

OldPhiKap
04-01-2014, 06:41 AM
I flew that on USAir once.

Tommy Bahama needs a gig somewhere.