All-ACC and other conference honors -- Jabari unanimous 1st team, Hood 2d team

[Duvall]

The All-ACC team is out. (http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/ACSMA-2013-14-All-ACC-Basketball-Team-Announced_03-10-14_lzzl91)

Parker, Warren, Paige, Fair and McDaniels are the first team, with Brodgon, Patterson, Ennis, Hood and McAdoo on second team.

[hurleyfor3]

Looks like Jabari and Warren were unanimous. 77*3=231.

First team
Jabari Parker, Fr.. Duke (77) 231
Tony Warren, So., Maryland (77), 231
Marcus Paige, So., North Carolina (69) 223
C.J. Fair, Sr., Syracuse (47) 200
K.J. McDaniels, Jr. Clemson (46) 199

Second Team
Malcolm Brogdon, So., Virginia (35) 170
Lamar Patterson, Sr. Pitt (10) 158
Tyler Ennis, Fr., Syracuse (13) 156
Rodney Hood, Jr., Duke (4) 148
James Michael McAdoo, Jr., North Carolina (2) 103

Third Team
Olivier Hanlan, So., Boston College (3) 101
Joe Harris, Sr., Virginia (1) 79
Rion Brown, Sr., Miami 52
Dez Wells, Jr., Maryland 45
Daniel Miller, Sr., Georgia Tech 34

[Duvall]

First team
Jabari Parker, Fr.. Duke (77) 231
Tony Warren, So., Maryland (77), 231
Marcus Paige, So., North Carolina (69) 223
C.J. Fair, Sr., Syracuse (47) 200
K.J. McDaniels, Jr. Clemson (46) 199

Second Team
Malcolm Brogdon, So., Virginia (35) 170
Lamar Patterson, Sr. Pitt (10) 158
Tyler Ennis, Fr., Syracuse (13) 156
Rodney Hood, Jr., Duke (4) 148
James Michael McAdoo, Jr., North Carolina (2) 103

Third Team
Olivier Hanlan, So., Boston College (3) 101
Joe Harris, Sr., Virginia (1) 79
Rion Brown, Sr., Miami 52
Dez Wells, Jr., Maryland 45
Daniel Miller, Sr., Georgia Tech 34

1) Brogdon should have been first-team over Fair and Paige.
2) McAdoo got two votes for first-team All-ACC? Never change, ACSMA.

[vick]

First team
Jabari Parker, Fr.. Duke (77) 231
Tony Warren, So., Maryland (77), 231
Marcus Paige, So., North Carolina (69) 223
C.J. Fair, Sr., Syracuse (47) 200
K.J. McDaniels, Jr. Clemson (46) 199

Second Team
Malcolm Brogdon, So., Virginia (35) 170
Lamar Patterson, Sr. Pitt (10) 158
Tyler Ennis, Fr., Syracuse (13) 156
Rodney Hood, Jr., Duke (4) 148
James Michael McAdoo, Jr., North Carolina (2) 103

Third Team
Olivier Hanlan, So., Boston College (3) 101
Joe Harris, Sr., Virginia (1) 79
Rion Brown, Sr., Miami 52
Dez Wells, Jr., Maryland 45
Daniel Miller, Sr., Georgia Tech 34

I wonder which two idiots voted McAdoo first team?

Anyway, other than Fair and Brogdon being backwards, it's decent enough I think.

[Duvall]

All-Freshman Team - Parker, Ennis, Perrantes, Meeks and Virginia Tech's Devin Wilson. (http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/ACSMA-2013-14-All-ACC-Freshman-Team-Announced_03-10-14_m06d65)

[CDu]

Aside from Brogdon not making first team (Fair has no business on the first team) and McAdoo making second team, I actually think this list is very reasonable.

And I mostly agree with the freshman team. I might have put Michael Young over Meeks, but Meeks' production per minute played was certainly better. And since he's a UNC guy, he obviously gets the voter's edge.

Still, a pretty decent job by the voters this year.

[MChambers]

Looks like Jabari and Warren were unanimous. 77*3=231.

First team
Jabari Parker, Fr.. Duke (77) 231
Tony Warren, So., Maryland (77), 231
Marcus Paige, So., North Carolina (69) 223
C.J. Fair, Sr., Syracuse (47) 200
K.J. McDaniels, Jr. Clemson (46) 199

Second Team
Malcolm Brogdon, So., Virginia (35) 170
Lamar Patterson, Sr. Pitt (10) 158
Tyler Ennis, Fr., Syracuse (13) 156
Rodney Hood, Jr., Duke (4) 148
James Michael McAdoo, Jr., North Carolina (2) 103

Third Team
Olivier Hanlan, So., Boston College (3) 101
Joe Harris, Sr., Virginia (1) 79
Rion Brown, Sr., Miami 52
Dez Wells, Jr., Maryland 45
Daniel Miller, Sr., Georgia Tech 34

Tony Warren transferred to Maryland?

[hurleyfor3]

Ha. That was a copypasta from the original press release. I'll leave it as is for fun.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ha. That was a copypasta from the original press release. I'll leave it as is for fun.

It's already been changed online. These ACC employees are quick to react. Unlike HBO GO employees last night...

[superdave]

Aside from Brogdon not making first team (Fair has no business on the first team) and McAdoo making second team, I actually think this list is very reasonable.

And I mostly agree with the freshman team. I might have put Michael Young over Meeks, but Meeks' production per minute played was certainly better. And since he's a UNC guy, he obviously gets the voter's edge.

Still, a pretty decent job by the voters this year.

Agreed. McAdoo laid some serious eggs this year. 0 points in 13 minutes vs FSU, in a game they shoulda lost and really needed him. 0 rebounds vs Duke, and giving up 30/11 to Jabari. In ACC games he only scored 20+ twice and had 10+ boards 4 times. I need a LOT more out of a 1st team ALL-ACC guy than that. He's a 3rd teamer to be honest.

Fair was far more consistent. He should have gotten consideration for 1st team. But he was no sure thing.

[El_Diablo]

Are these the same voters who will be voting for ACC POY? If so, it seems it's a two-horse race between Parker and Warren.

EDIT: Paige still has a pretty good shot too, I guess, even if eight voters don't have him in their top five.

[CDu]

Are these the same voters who will be voting for ACC POY? If so, it seems it's a two-horse race between Parker and Warren.

EDIT: Paige still has a pretty good shot too, I guess, even if eight voters don't have him in their top five.

They are. And I guess technically it is a 2- or 3-horse race. But I'd be absolutely shocked if it is not TJ Warren.

[Ichabod Drain]

I wonder which two idiots voted McAdoo first team?

Anyway, other than Fair and Brogdon being backwards, it's decent enough I think.

If those first team votes would have been second team votes he would have ended up tied with Hanlan for the fifth spot on the second team.

[vick]

First team

Jabari Parker, Duke (42)
T.J. Warren, NC State (41)
Marcus Paige, North Carolina (40)
C.J. Fair, Syracuse (39)
Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia (35)

Second Team

Tyler Ennis, Syracuse (33)
Lamar Patterson, Pitt (31)
Rodney Hood, Duke (31)
K.J. McDaniels, Clemson (28)
Joe Harris, Virginia (24)

Third Team

James Michael McAdoo, North Carolina (21)
Olivier Hanlan, Boston College (15)
Dez Wells, Maryland (13)
Eric Atkins, Notre Dame (8)
Rion Brown, Miami (8)


Full results (http://www.fayobserver.com/blogs/sports/acc_basketball/article_d606c84c-a88a-11e3-af53-001a4bcf6878.html). I think it's a slight improvement. Do we know which coach doesn't vote?

[Duvall]

Do we know which coach doesn't vote?

I think coaches are barred from voting for their own players.

[dukelifer]

They are. And I guess technically it is a 2- or 3-horse race. But I'd be absolutely shocked if it is not TJ Warren.

I agree that Warren should have it based on productivity - but of all the players in the ACC- his is not a name that first comes to mind from people outside the conference think about the ACC. Ennis, Parker, Paige, Fair and even McAdoo all have more name recognition. Parker is the most visible and possibly best player in the ACC in the minds of the typical viewer/pundit. Warren is really invisible on the national stage because State has been invisible this season. This should not be the reason- but it is not clear cut that Warren is a lock. Could be shared.

[CDu]

I agree that Warren should have it based on productivity - but of all the players in the ACC- his is not a name that first comes to mind from people outside the conference think about the ACC. Ennis, Parker, Paige, Fair and even McAdoo all have more name recognition. Parker is the most visible and possibly best player in the ACC in the minds of the typical viewer/pundit. Warren is really invisible on the national stage because State has been invisible this season. This should not be the reason- but it is not clear cut that Warren is a lock. Could be shared.

But the people voting are ACC voters. Thus, Warren is a household name to them.

If we were talking about NCAA Player of the Year (or 1st/2nd Team All-American), I'd agree with you, because voters from New Mexico probably won't pay much attention to Warren. But we're talking about a contingent of voters that is very North Carolina-centric.

[brevity]

Do we know which coach doesn't vote?


I think coaches are barred from voting for their own players.

What a nice, logical answer. So much for my wisecrack comment that the ACC ripped up Mark Turgeon's ballot as an early departing gift.


But we're talking about a contingent of voters that is very University of North Carolina-centric.

Fixed it for you.

[roywhite]

First team

Jabari Parker, Duke (42)
T.J. Warren, NC State (41)
Marcus Paige, North Carolina (40)
C.J. Fair, Syracuse (39)
Malcolm Brogdon, Virginia (35)



Just a quick comment....who would have guessed this group pre-season? We knew about Fair and knew Parker was a prized recruit; we maybe knew Warren was emerging, but to POY status? And who would have seen Paige and Brogdon as 1st teamers?

It's one reason why we love ACC hoops....there are always surprises.

[Olympic Fan]

I think you can make reasonable arguments for a number of positions -- I see the case for Brogdon over Fair or even McDaniels. Do you have Parker or Warren for POY? I'd vote Warren, but I wouldn't disparage anybody who voted Parker. I even understand a friend of mine who is voting for Paige.

But two things on the two teams are unreasonable -- the two media idiots who voted McAdoo first team and the one idiot coach who voted Warren second team (I'd guess Bzdelik, since he's the biggest idiot in the ACC coaching ranks).

I think it's important to separate a difference of opinion from real stupidity.

I am a bit interested in one aspect of the coaches vote -- KJ McDaniels as the ninth vote-getter? Wow .. I don't get that.

And Duvall is right -- the coaches can't vote for their own guys, so 14 votes (which translates into 42 points for the first-team guys) is unanimous.

[vick]

I think coaches are barred from voting for their own players.

Makes sense, thanks


Just a quick comment....who would have guessed this group pre-season? We knew about Fair and knew Parker was a prized recruit; we maybe knew Warren was emerging, but to POY status? And who would have seen Paige and Brogdon as 1st teamers?

It's one reason why we love ACC hoops....there are always surprises.

One of the beat writers I follow, maybe Laura Keeley, noted that two of her preseason picks, Jerian Grant and P. J. Hairston, didn't play a second of ACC basketball.

[El_Diablo]

Ehh . . doesn't make much sense that the #1 team in the conference had only 1 guy make All-ACC. Easy schedule, I guess, but still . . .

Two players--Brogdon and Harris.

[kAzE]

Two players--Brogdon and Harris.

Noooo damn you for replying to my post before I realized my mistake and deleted it!

[jv001]

Noooo damn you for replying to my post before I realized my mistake and deleted it!

Little harsh don't you think :cool: GoDuke!

[dukelifer]

But the people voting are ACC voters. Thus, Warren is a household name to them.

If we were talking about NCAA Player of the Year (or 1st/2nd Team All-American), I'd agree with you, because voters from New Mexico probably won't pay much attention to Warren. But we're talking about a contingent of voters that is very North Carolina-centric.

Yes I know but they also are aware of visibility of the conference. Not sure some think that way. The winner is usually pretty visible or on a visible team. Green is an outlier- maybe Dudley. We shall see.

[Newton_14]

I wonder which two idiots voted McAdoo first team?

Anyway, other than Fair and Brogdon being backwards, it's decent enough I think.
The same idiot that left TJ Warren off their first team perhaps? I mean, really dude??

Also, the coaches picked teams again this year and I heard on the radio today that there was a coach that left TJ off his first team. Really? Ol Roy perhaps? All the vendetta;s in the world should not have prevented someone from picking that kid 1st Team All ACC.

[CDu]

Yes I know but they also are aware of visibility of the conference. Not sure some think that way. The winner is usually pretty visible or on a visible team. Green is an outlier- maybe Dudley. We shall see.

I highly doubt that "visibility of the conference" comes into play in the voters' minds.

[CDu]

The same idiot that left TJ Warren off their first team perhaps? I mean, really dude??

Nah, that was a coach, not a media member. The media members voted Warren unanimously to the first team.

[FerryFor50]

Yes I know but they also are aware of visibility of the conference. Not sure some think that way. The winner is usually pretty visible or on a visible team. Green is an outlier- maybe Dudley. We shall see.

Eh I think it has more to do with the fact that usually the best players play on winning teams. It's rare when you get the great player/bad team combo.

[CDu]

Eh I think it has more to do with the fact that usually the best players play on winning teams. It's rare when you get the great player/bad team combo.

Exactly. Usually there isn't one player that is so far above the pack but on a bad team. When it is really close, voters may fall to the "best player on the better team" argument. But whenever a player stands out so much, they'll vote him even if he's on a bad team. It's just that (as you say) this scenario rarely plays out. Usually if a player is truly elite, his team is also pretty good. NC State (and Va Tech last year) were anomalies in that they were SO bad aside from their best player.

[Newton_14]

Nah, that was a coach, not a media member. The media members voted Warren unanimously to the first team.OK thanks for clarifying that. I knew the coach left him off, and thought a media person did too.

I am suddenly not as convinced TJ wins player of the year though, which I think would be a travesty. That said, if it is someone else it darn sure better be Jabari.

[FerryFor50]

OK thanks for clarifying that. I knew the coach left him off, and thought a media person did too.

I am suddenly not as convinced TJ wins player of the year though, which I think would be a travesty. That said, if it is someone else it darn sure better be Jabari.

My vote is for JMM. Career achievement award...

[Slackerb]

Exactly. Usually there isn't one player that is so far above the pack but on a bad team. When it is really close, voters may fall to the "best player on the better team" argument. But whenever a player stands out so much, they'll vote him even if he's on a bad team. It's just that (as you say) this scenario rarely plays out. Usually if a player is truly elite, his team is also pretty good. NC State (and Va Tech last year) were anomalies in that they were SO bad aside from their best player.


I keep seeing this as an argument in the POY conversation. Was NC State SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BAD this year? They finished 7th in the new ACC in the regular season, and I'd like to point out that we also haven't yet crowned the ACC champ or finished the season. State was several close plays/ref calls away from being on the NCAA bubble looking out. They finished .500 in ACC play, which I think is much more mediocre than SO BAD. Comparing them to VT last year is gross oversimplification.

[CDu]

I keep seeing this as an argument in the POY conversation. Was NC State SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BAD this year? They finished 7th in the new ACC in the regular season, and I'd like to point out that we also haven't yet crowned the ACC champ or finished the season. State was several close plays/ref calls away from being on the NCAA bubble looking out. They finished .500 in ACC play, which I think is much more mediocre than SO BAD. Comparing them to VT last year is gross oversimplification.

Sorry if it wasn't clear in my post, but I was saying the rest of State's team was SO bad. Warren was just so good that he carried the team to the middle of the conference.

That VT team without Green was even worse than this State team without Warren. Hence, they still ended up terrible, even with Green's great play.

[superdave]

Just a quick comment....who would have guessed this group pre-season? We knew about Fair and knew Parker was a prized recruit; we maybe knew Warren was emerging, but to POY status? And who would have seen Paige and Brogdon as 1st teamers?

It's one reason why we love ACC hoops....there are always surprises.

As a freshman, Warren had five 20+ points games including a 31-pointer. He scored in double digits in 24/35 games. So we knew he could score. He also shot .622 from the field last season, so we also knew he was efficient. Guess he just flew under the radar because expectations for State were pretty low.

[tbyers11]

As a freshman, Warren had five 20+ points games including a 31-pointer. He scored in double digits in 24/35 games. So we knew he could score. He also shot .622 from the field last season, so we also knew he was efficient. Guess he just flew under the radar because expectations for State were pretty low.

I think Warren also might have flown under the radar for preseason recognition because last year he put up those numbers when he was frequently the 4th or 5th offensive option for NC State. Opponents were likely game planning to stop Leslie, Howell, Brown, Wood and, maybe Purvis, before Warren. Would he be able to improve upon those numbers when he was the focus of the other team's D? At least that was my thinking.

The answer is a resounding yes. He has greatly exceeded my expectations and I don't think NC State's 9-9 conference mark (slightly better than I would have predicted) should keep him from getting the award.

[UrinalCake]

It's hard to know what criteria they're using for poy. If it's the most valuable player, then Warren should get it over Parker since his team depended on him more. But then again his team didn't win as much, so maybe Parker is more valuable since his team had a higher total "value." Do you penalize a guy who had better teammates and thus didn't draw all of the defense's attention? Or do you penalize a guy for being on an awful team where he has free reign to shoot as much as he wants? It's all so arbitrary. The one thing we can all agree on, however, is that MacAdoo doesn't belong on any of these lists.

[CDu]

It's hard to know what criteria they're using for poy. If it's the most valuable player, then Warren should get it over Parker since his team depended on him more. But then again his team didn't win as much, so maybe Parker is more valuable since his team had a higher total "value." Do you penalize a guy who had better teammates and thus didn't draw all of the defense's attention? Or do you penalize a guy for being on an awful team where he has free reign to shoot as much as he wants? It's all so arbitrary. The one thing we can all agree on, however, is that MacAdoo doesn't belong on any of these lists.

The argument of the "free reign to shoot as much as he wants" doesn't hold for Warren, though. He did get a lot of shot opportunities at State, which no doubt helped him lead the league in scoring. But he was also the leader in FG%, and he was the most efficient scorer in the ACC. So while he shot a lot, he was taking good shots.

And also consider that Warren was the only threat on his team, so he got the entire focus of the opposition's defensive game plan. Parker was the primary concern of any opposing defense, but teams could only be so focused on him for fear of being beaten by Hood, Sulaimon, Cook, or Dawkins.

Basically, I don't see any reasonable justification for voting Parker over Warren for ACC PoY. Warren was a better scorer. He was a more efficient scorer. And even the "bad team" argument isn't that strong, as State finished just 4 games behind Duke in the standings. When you consider the talent disparity for State's other players compared with Duke's other players, I think that only magnifies how impressive what Warren did really was.

[PackMan97]

It's hard to know what criteria they're using for poy. If it's the most valuable player, then Warren should get it over Parker since his team depended on him more. But then again his team didn't win as much, so maybe Parker is more valuable since his team had a higher total "value." Do you penalize a guy who had better teammates and thus didn't draw all of the defense's attention? Or do you penalize a guy for being on an awful team where he has free reign to shoot as much as he wants? It's all so arbitrary. The one thing we can all agree on, however, is that MacAdoo doesn't belong on any of these lists.

I think there is some value in discussing whether a player is a "complete" package or a one trick pony.

Warren was thrid in steals per game, first in offensive rebounds per game, eigth in rebounds per game and as we all know, led the ACC in PPG and FG%. Sometimes a guy will win just because of their scoring and I think if TJ were a one trick pony, Parker would rightly be the POY.

To me, someone who you know is drawing the best a defense has to offer and still scores at will, still is crashing the offensive boards and is still leading the conference in FG% that says something special. You know every coach that has played State over the second half of the season has put up on a whiteboard STOP WARREN, MAKE SOMEONE ELSE BEAT US.

[Duvall]

You know every coach that has played State over the second half of the season has put up on a whiteboard STOP WARREN, MAKE SOMEONE ELSE BEAT US.

Is this true, though? It seems like a number of teams have had success against State by dominating their average backcourt.

[PackMan97]

Is this true, though? It seems like a number of teams have had success against State by dominating their average backcourt.

That depends on what you mean?

Some teams certainly seem to have their way with us when State is on defense, and scoring more than the other team is a sure fired way to win :) That said, despite the scoring flaws, since Lewis entered the starting lineup I feel it was a rare game in which NC State was unable to run their offense due to pressure by the opponents defense.

Of course, the great teams feel like they can enforce their will on you instead of adapting. I'm just saying, no one that has played NC State recently has said, "Shut down Lewis/Freeman/Vandenburg/Lee/Turner/etc"

[Kedsy]

Of course, the great teams feel like they can enforce their will on you instead of adapting. I'm just saying, no one that has played NC State recently has said, "Shut down Lewis/Freeman/Vandenburg/Lee/Turner/etc"

But maybe they said, "Let Warren get his and make sure nobody else gets anything because TJ can't beat us by himself." No idea if that really happened, but it sounds like a legitimate strategy to me.

[PackMan97]

But maybe they said, "Let Warren get his and make sure nobody else gets anything because TJ can't beat us by himself." No idea if that really happened, but it sounds like a legitimate strategy to me.

Maybe Pitt and BC coaches tried that? I would say it didn't work.