Jay Bilas - Need To Address Behavior of Coaches

[Atlanta Duke]

Yesterday featured two more coaches getting into it with the refs - Mick Cronin of Cincinnati and Calipari

Jay Bilas says coaches need to cool off or be cooled off, for reasons including the potential competitive advantage resulting from bad behavior.

Not every coach acts inappropriately, but too many are doing it and I think we need to put a stop to it and I’ll tell you why: If we think that coach behavior influences the officials, then that’s a competitive advantage and we need to put a stop to it.

“If we don’t think it’s an influence, then it looks horrible and it erodes public confidence in officiating and we need to stop it. So tell me how we don’t need to stop it. We have to stop it. The coaches have to take the lead and police themselves.”

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-bas...medium=twitter

Mick Cronin says there is a double standard that benefits guess who

"My beef with that is guys like Mick Cronin and Buzz Williams (of Marquette) of the world, we deal with some of it," Cronin told ESPN after the game. "When nobody gets in the Jim Boeheim's face or Mike Krzyzewski's face."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10537851/cincinnati-mick-cronin-says-referees-treat-coaches-differently

[cspan37421]

Good interview, IMO. But to me, I think it speaks a lot more to the need to rein in guys like Ted Valentine than Mick Cronin.

Bilas's point is well-taken though. Poor coaching behavior not only could result in influencing officials and eroding public confidence in officiating, it sets a horrible example for the young men under the coach's charge.

When I saw Coach K's name mentioned, I instinctively sensed that he was going to be cited as an example of a guy who berates the officials and gets away with it, rather than what Cronin actually said (officials don't get in Coach K's face). But that meme pops up pretty regularly, and frankly, I don't see it. Coach K used to be much more vocal than he is today. He's actually comparatively sedate today, at least as far as officials go. [If he's not, they're not showing it on TV.]

[cwiley]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwcX8OnTTSA

[kshepinthehouse]

Ted Valentine should be suspended for his actions, no questions asked. How does this guy continue to keep his job year in and year out after the way he acts on the court? Even Matt Christiansen or Andre Buckner (or dare I say Patrick Davidson) may have stepped in had that been Coach K :)

[OldPhiKap]

Ted Valentine should be suspended for his actions, no questions asked. How does this guy continue to keep his job year in and year out after the way he acts on the court? Even Matt Christiansen or Andre Buckner (or dare I say Patrick Davidson) may have stepped in had that been Coach K :)

Ted certainly helped that to make that escalate quickly.

[cspan37421]

Ted certainly helped that to make that escalate quickly.

The announcers got it so wrong. Right after Valentine got up in Cronin's face, they narrated it going the other way around. Sure, Cronin was yelling at him - but it was Valentine who closed the distance to an inch or less.

[OldPhiKap]

The announcers got it so wrong. Right after Valentine got up in Cronin's face, they narrated it going the other way around. Sure, Cronin was yelling at him - but it was Valentine who closed the distance to an inch or less.

Yup, and it starts with his "look at me" overdramatic call. It's not about you, Teddy.

[burnspbesq]

It's not about you, Teddy.

Teddy does not concur, and hasn't for at least the last 20 years.

[Troublemaker]

Which celebrity is Mick Cronin? He's Paul Giamatti with less hair, right?

[FerryFor50]

While Valentine shouldn't have gotten in Cronin's face, don't you think Cronin overreacted just a tad? And who knows what Cronin said to make Valentine react like he did. They were both in the wrong.

I agree with Bilas - T the coaches up and maybe they'll stop acting like spoiled children.

[kshepinthehouse]

While Valentine shouldn't have gotten in Cronin's face, don't you think Cronin overreacted just a tad? And who knows what Cronin said to make Valentine react like he did. They were both in the wrong.

I agree with Bilas - T the coaches up and maybe they'll stop acting like spoiled children.

Ted Valentine would normally have no problem giving a coach a technical right? The reason he let Cronin go so far without giving him a T is because he knew he was in the wrong by getting in the coach's face. There is NOTHING a coach can say that would justify a ref jumping up in his face. If it was so bad then just T him up from the get go instead of escalating the situation.

[Newton_14]

Ted Valentine should be suspended for his actions, no questions asked. How does this guy continue to keep his job year in and year out after the way he acts on the court? Even Matt Christiansen or Andre Buckner (or dare I say Patrick Davidson) may have stepped in had that been Coach K :)

Well in fairness, Teddy V is already banned in 4 BCS Conferences. ACC, PAC-12, Big12, and I believe the 4th is Big Ten, so actions have been taken by leagues already.

[hurleyfor3]

I don't mean to say it's the best solution, but I wouldn't mind going to the international rules. Talk to the ref and it's a T. There may be exceptions for administrative matters, but I believe if you want a timeout you still signal it to the scorer's table.

Somehow the international game does just fine.

[Bluedog]

Well in fairness, Teddy V is already banned in 4 BCS Conferences. ACC, PAC-12, Big12, and I believe the 4th is Big Ten, so actions have been taken by leagues already.

Is this actually true? I hadn't heard that, but am curious. Looks like he has done Big 10 games this year, but nothing in the ACC. I agree with Bilas on this topic. We hold the players on the court to much higher standards than the older and supposedly wiser coaches.

[FerryFor50]

Is this actually true? I hadn't heard that, but am curious. Looks like he has done Big 10 games this year, but nothing in the ACC. I agree with Bilas on this topic. We hold the players on the court to much higher standards than the older and supposedly wiser coaches.

You mean the guys setting the example for the players? :)

[Newton_14]

Is this actually true? I hadn't heard that, but am curious. Looks like he has done Big 10 games this year, but nothing in the ACC. I agree with Bilas on this topic. We hold the players on the court to much higher standards than the older and supposedly wiser coaches.
No link sorry. I heard it on Sports Talk Radio earlier this week. They were talking about a recent incident and mentioned that TV Teddy was already banned in 4 conferences. I will dig and see if I can find an article on it.

[Kishiznit]

Bilas was absolutely going after K with his remarks yesterday, you guys are missing the point. He uses his gameday platform for popularity within his state for long term benefits.

[bedeviled]

No link sorry. I heard it on Sports Talk Radio earlier this week. They were talking about a recent incident and mentioned that TV Teddy was already banned in 4 conferences. I will dig and see if I can find an article on it.In a cursory search, I couldn't find info on the conference bans you list. But, I did find a Seth Davis article on TV Ted (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1207148/1/index.htm) from last March. He lists the following, historically:

Barred from Big Ten nonconference games during 1998--99 season
Suspension from Big Ten for 1999--2000 season (due to talking to media about the prior incident)
Intentionally not asked to officiate Big East games 2003-04 season to ????
Intentionally not asked to officiate ACC games during 2008-09 season

Statsheet's Ted Valentine page (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine/conferences) lists how many games per conference he had each year, but it doesn't indicate whether the absence of games is due to his decision or the conferences' decisions. Nor does it list non-conference games. Thus, it doesn't fully address the question. Nonetheless, he hasn't officiated a Big-12 conference game since 1997-98 and doesn't have any Pac-10 conference games recorded in their data set going back to 1996-97.
3978

[alteran]

Well in fairness, Teddy V is already banned in 4 BCS Conferences. ACC, PAC-12, Big12, and I believe the 4th is Big Ten, so actions have been taken by leagues already.

Wow. I had no idea.

[jay]

Ted Valentine should be suspended for his actions, no questions asked. How does this guy continue to keep his job year in and year out after the way he acts on the court? Even Matt Christiansen or Andre Buckner (or dare I say Patrick Davidson) may have stepped in had that been Coach K :)

I love how coaches are given a certain amount of leash to rant and rave and gesticulate, but the moment a referee makes one very slight notion of negative body language, they should be suspended.

The double standard we apply to officials is pretty pathetic, IMO.

[jay]

No link sorry. I heard it on Sports Talk Radio earlier this week. They were talking about a recent incident and mentioned that TV Teddy was already banned in 4 conferences. I will dig and see if I can find an article on it.

You can't find any supporting information because it's a blatant lie, and you're perpetuating it.

[FerryFor50]

I love how coaches are given a certain amount of leash to rant and rave and gesticulate, but the moment a referee makes one very slight notion of negative body language, they should be suspended.

The double standard we apply to officials is pretty pathetic, IMO.

Since we expect no emotive response from refs, we should do what I've said for years - replace officials with robots. :D

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You can't find any supporting information because it's a blatant lie, and you're perpetuating it.

Wow. Or, you could, you know, wait and see if the moderator making the claims is able to track down the supporting evidence he has already stated he is looking for.

Boy, one week off, and people around here get crazy testy.

Back to topic - I think that most sane fans would agree that as Duke followers we get into pretty dicey territory in calling out coaches for berating referees. I love Coach K, but you'd have to be blind and deaf to not notice that he can really rake guys over the coals when he doesn't like a call.

He pushes just to the edge, but it gets into some questionable areas from time to time. Part of being an experienced coach. I think that's why Jim B's behavior was so surprising to most - he's clearly been around the block enough times to know better. He didn't push to the edge, he went barreling over the cliff with his whole team in tow.

I think that the hard part is trying to hold coaches to an equitable standard. Where players/coaches/fans get upset is if there's a perceived imbalance or advantage. For instance, if Coach K is working the refs over hard and not getting put in his place, but other coaches are getting T'd up for expressing their dissenting opinions.

"Working the refs" has been a part of the game for generations now. Different sports have different norms - you see managers and umpires go toe-to-toe in baseball all the time. Having never been a coach at any level above youth league, "working the refs" makes me a bit uncomfortable. There's good calls and bad calls to be sure, but I never saw the advantage in complaining.

[pfrduke]

You can't find any supporting information because it's a blatant lie, and you're perpetuating it.

It wasn't from Newton, but the below suggests 4 incidents of banning, at least for certain time periods. That's far from a blatant lie.


In a cursory search, I couldn't find info on the conference bans you list. But, I did find a Seth Davis article on TV Ted (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1207148/1/index.htm) from last March. He lists the following, historically:

Barred from Big Ten nonconference games during 1998--99 season
Suspension from Big Ten for 1999--2000 season (due to talking to media about the prior incident)
Intentionally not asked to officiate Big East games 2003-04 season to ????
Intentionally not asked to officiate ACC games during 2008-09 season

Statsheet's Ted Valentine page (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine/conferences) lists how many games per conference he had each year, but it doesn't indicate whether the absence of games is due to his decision or the conferences' decisions. Nor does it list non-conference games. Thus, it doesn't fully address the question. Nonetheless, he hasn't officiated a Big-12 conference game since 1997-98 and doesn't have any Pac-10 conference games recorded in their data set going back to 1996-97.

[pfrduke]

Wow. Or, you could, you know, wait and see if the moderator making the claims is able to track down the supporting evidence he has already stated he is looking for.

Boy, one week off, and people around here get crazy testy.

Back to topic - I think that most sane fans would agree that as Duke followers we get into pretty dicey territory in calling out coaches for berating referees. I love Coach K, but you'd have to be blind and deaf to not notice that he can really rake guys over the coals when he doesn't like a call.

He pushes just to the edge, but it gets into some questionable areas from time to time. Part of being an experienced coach. I think that's why Jim B's behavior was so surprising to most - he's clearly been around the block enough times to know better. He didn't push to the edge, he went barreling over the cliff with his whole team in tow.

I think that the hard part is trying to hold coaches to an equitable standard. Where players/coaches/fans get upset is if there's a perceived imbalance or advantage. For instance, if Coach K is working the refs over hard and not getting put in his place, but other coaches are getting T'd up for expressing their dissenting opinions.

"Working the refs" has been a part of the game for generations now. Different sports have different norms - you see managers and umpires go toe-to-toe in baseball all the time. Having never been a coach at any level above youth league, "working the refs" makes me a bit uncomfortable. There's good calls and bad calls to be sure, but I never saw the advantage in complaining.

I certainly haven't tried to compare coach technical stats, but my anecdotal observation has been that when Coach K deserves a tech, he gets one. He's gone off the handle plenty of times, but he's also gotten T'ed up plenty of times. Maybe he gets a slightly longer leash from some officials than other coaches - it's hard to know because it's such a subjective decision - but it's not like the refs let him say whatever he wants with full impunity.

[FerryFor50]

I certainly haven't tried to compare coach technical stats, but my anecdotal observation has been that when Coach K deserves a tech, he gets one. He's gone off the handle plenty of times, but he's also gotten T'ed up plenty of times. Maybe he gets a slightly longer leash from some officials than other coaches - it's hard to know because it's such a subjective decision - but it's not like the refs let him say whatever he wants with full impunity.

It's also been a long, long time since I've seen K actually fly off the handle and run onto the court to protest a call. (I can't recall the last time)

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

It's also been a long, long time since I've seen K actually fly off the handle and run onto the court to protest a call. (I can't recall the last time)

I agree. I just think that the general impression is that he gets away with language and "conversations" with the refs that other coaches would be slapped for.

Anyway, I understand getting worked up in the heat of the moment. I just have no framework to understand the gamesmanship which is sometimes at play.

[pfrduke]

It's also been a long, long time since I've seen K actually fly off the handle and run onto the court to protest a call. (I can't recall the last time)

That's true too - he hasn't done anything remotely approaching what Mick Cronin did this weekend in a very, very long time (if ever). I have some fond memories of a well-earned T in a home game against Georgia Tech in 2002 or 2003 - surprisingly enough, I think that was the single loudest non-UNC game of my tenure.

[FerryFor50]

I agree. I just think that the general impression is that he gets away with language and "conversations" with the refs that other coaches would be slapped for.

Anyway, I understand getting worked up in the heat of the moment. I just have no framework to understand the gamesmanship which is sometimes at play.

Right. But I think the longer you've coached, the better you get to know the officials and the more slack you get.

For instance, if I told my friend to "shut the eff up" he might not be as offended as if I told someone I didn't know very well...

And recall the dispute over what superfan said to Marcus Smart. Do any of us really think we'd be upset if someone we knew well called us a "piece of crap"? ;)

[flyingdutchdevil]

It's also been a long, long time since I've seen K actually fly off the handle and run onto the court to protest a call. (I can't recall the last time)

Michigan, December 3, 2013: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnXM3YlUttk

Doesn't happen as much as it used to, but Coach K still contests calls. If he didn't, he wouldn't still be an amazing coach.

He doesn't flip out Boeheim style, but I like that Coach K still has that energy.

[FerryFor50]

That's true too - he hasn't done anything remotely approaching what Mick Cronin did this weekend in a very, very long time (if ever). I have some fond memories of a well-earned T in a home game against Georgia Tech in 2002 or 2003 - surprisingly enough, I think that was the single loudest non-UNC game of my tenure.

Mick Cronin's reaction was completely unjustified, given the transgression by Ted V, and deserved a technical foul.

When your own players have to hold you back and you're so angry that you shove your assistant coach, then you have issues.

After the game, Cronin was *very* contrite (unlike Boeheim) and even cited that he and Ted V have a good relationship. Which is probably why he didn't get tossed.

[FerryFor50]

Michigan, December 3, 2013: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnXM3YlUttk

Doesn't happen as much as it used to, but Coach K still contests calls. If he didn't, he wouldn't still be an amazing coach.

He doesn't flip out Boeheim style, but I like that Coach K still has that energy.

Right, perfect example of what I was saying.

1) He didn't flip out.
2) He got punished for his "transgression" with a technical foul.
3) He was in the right... he was calling time out and they didn't acknowledge it.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Right, perfect example of what I was saying.

1) He didn't flip out.
2) He got punished for his "transgression" with a technical foul.
3) He was in the right... he was calling time out and they didn't acknowledge it.

1) I agree he didn't flip out.
2) He deserved a technical foul.
3) Even if he was in the right, he doesn't need to go off like that. Being right doesn't make you immune to correct technical fouls.

IMO, a few years back, Coach K wouldn't have received that technical foul because of what you are saying: he has calmed down. Think about Jamie Dixon: he's always outside his box. It's common place now and refs acknowledge that. Thus, when Dixon steps outside his box, refs pretty much ignore it. When Coach K was flying out and flipping out, it was common place. When he did it to contest a call, refs didn't even consider a technical.

I like the newer Coach K better. But, he is ironically more susceptible to Ts because his passion now seems more like an outburst than contesting a call, when previously Coach K always was out of seat talking to the refs.

[FerryFor50]

1) I agree he didn't flip out.
2) He deserved a technical foul.
3) Even if he was in the right, he doesn't need to go off like that. Being right doesn't make you immune to correct technical fouls.

IMO, a few years back, Coach K wouldn't have received that technical foul because of what you are saying: he has calmed down. Think about Jamie Dixon: he's always outside his box. It's common place now and refs acknowledge that. Thus, when Dixon steps outside his box, refs pretty much ignore it. When Coach K was flying out and flipping out, it was common place. When he did it to contest a call, refs didn't even consider a technical.

I like the newer Coach K better. But, he is ironically more susceptible to Ts because his passion now seems more like an outburst than contesting a call, when previously Coach K always was out of seat talking to the refs.

But he didn't go off. He stomped his foot. Then Kersey gave him a tech. I've seen much worse NOT get techs. Like Cronin's outburst.

[flyingdutchdevil]

But he didn't go off. He stomped his foot. Then Kersey gave him a tech. I've seen much worse NOT get techs. Like Cronin's outburst.

Okay. Let's disagree.

[FerryFor50]

Okay. Let's disagree.

Hard to disagree with video evidence. ;)

[flyingdutchdevil]

Hard to disagree with video evidence. ;)

You're right. Coach K is never wrong...

[FerryFor50]

You're right. Coach K is never wrong...

Yes, that's what I said...

[flyingdutchdevil]

DBR needs a sarcasm button.

[kshepinthehouse]

I love how coaches are given a certain amount of leash to rant and rave and gesticulate, but the moment a referee makes one very slight notion of negative body language, they should be suspended.

The double standard we apply to officials is pretty pathetic, IMO.

The referee gets paid to control the game and not let it get out of hand. How can he control the game if he can't control himself? Every ref will agree that you have to maintain professionalism when you are working. Many refs take pride in how they handle themselves on the court. Instigating and escalating coaches is not part of their job responsibility. If a guy jumped up in your face the way Teddy V did the Cincinatti coach you could infer that he was threatening you or that he wants to fight. This is unacceptable from a referee. Besides, after years or refereeing don't you think Teddy has heard every insult imaginable. What could Cronin have possibly said?

[Newton_14]

You can't find any supporting information because it's a blatant lie, and you're perpetuating it.
Well if it is a blatant lie then I will retract it, but so far I have not been able to find proof or disproof. Not sure why the radio show would toss out a "blatant lie" for no reason.

They made the statement while talking about the incident in Auburn with the fan tossing.

[jay]

Well if it is a blatant lie then I will retract it, but so far I have not been able to find proof or disproof. Not sure why the radio show would toss out a "blatant lie" for no reason.

They made the statement while talking about the incident in Auburn with the fan tossing.

It seems I have offended pfrduke's sensibilities with my "tone" so allow me to rephrase.

Perhaps, if you're going to level an accusation, the burden of proof falls upon you first.

You could have said "You know, I heard on a radio show - although I don't have the facts to back this up - that TV has been banned in multiple conferences. But I'll have to find that info."

Instead of leading with what you purported to be fact, and then refusing to retract until facts are presented to refute your accusation.

I do believe rumors and speculation about players and coaches is frowned upon here at DBR because there is some sort of "higher standard" that is followed.

Seems to me the same courtesy can and should be followed for officials, no? Despite what many think, they are real people, not robots.

[Newton_14]

It seems I have offended pfrduke's sensibilities with my "tone" so allow me to rephrase.

Perhaps, if you're going to level an accusation, the burden of proof falls upon you first.

You could have said "You know, I heard on a radio show - although I don't have the facts to back this up - that TV has been banned in multiple conferences. But I'll have to find that info."

Instead of leading with what you purported to be fact, and then refusing to retract until facts are presented to refute your accusation.

I do believe rumors and speculation about players and coaches is frowned upon here at DBR because there is some sort of "higher standard" that is followed.

Seems to me the same courtesy can and should be followed for officials, no? Despite what many think, they are real people, not robots.

Actually, regarding your comments toward my post, you are correct. I should have clarified it.

But I have to wonder why you are being so defensive?

[FerryFor50]

Actually, regarding your comments toward my post, you are correct. I should have clarified it.

But I have to wonder why you are being so defensive?

Maybe he's Teddy Valentine...

[flyingdutchdevil]

Fans don't want to blame their own team. Or their own coaches. Or their own players. Also, fans don't want to give the opposing team credit.

Rather, they'd rather blame an independent party that does have a fairly impactful influence over the game: the refs.

It's not fair at all, but it's the reality of the situation. You see it on fan forums in every sport (including DBR) all the time.

[kshepinthehouse]

Maybe he's Teddy Valentine...

I bet he's a 3rd grade girls basketball ref.

[Duvall]

Fans don't want to blame their own team. Or their own coaches. Or their own players. Also, fans don't want to give the opposing team credit.

Rather, they'd rather blame an independent party that does have a fairly impactful influence over the game: the refs.

It's not fair at all, but it's the reality of the situation. You see it on fan forums in every sport (including DBR) all the time.

What does this have to do with raging coaches?

[OldPhiKap]

It seems I have offended pfrduke's sensibilities with my "tone" so allow me to rephrase.

Perhaps, if you're going to level an accusation, the burden of proof falls upon you first.

You could have said "You know, I heard on a radio show - although I don't have the facts to back this up - that TV has been banned in multiple conferences. But I'll have to find that info."

Instead of leading with what you purported to be fact, and then refusing to retract until facts are presented to refute your accusation.

I do believe rumors and speculation about players and coaches is frowned upon here at DBR because there is some sort of "higher standard" that is followed.

Seems to me the same courtesy can and should be followed for officials, no? Despite what many think, they are real people, not robots.

LOL. Calling a respected poster and moderator a blatant liar, then chastising him about DBR posting decorum.

You made my evening. That is hilarious.



And, if calling out Teddy Valentine, Dick Paparo or Lenny Wirtz is wrong, well -- I don't want to be right.

[jay]

LOL. Calling a respected poster and moderator a blatant liar, then chastising him about DBR posting decorum.

You made my evening. That is hilarious.



And, if calling out Teddy Valentine, Dick Paparo or Lenny Wirtz is wrong, well -- I don't want to be right.

Glad to provide some humor into your life.

FWIW, even the evil, despicable human being that Ted Valentine is can recognize when he is wrong, man up, and admit it publicly.


After the game, Valentine called the AAC's supervisor of officials and acknowledged that he should not have stepped toward Cronin in such an aggressive manner. "I was just totally wrong. I was out of place by walking into his space," Valentine told me by phone on Sunday. "It was just one of those situations where I got caught up in the moment. I was out of bounds because I walked into his domain. That's why I didn't give him a technical because I knew I was wrong, and two wrongs don't make a right. If it had been 15, 16 years ago, I never would have caught myself like that."

Link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140303/court-storming-new-mexico-state-utah-valley-mick-cronin-cincinnati/#ixzz2v19KZzGc

[FerryFor50]

Glad to provide some humor into your life.

FWIW, even the evil, despicable human being that Ted Valentine is can recognize when he is wrong, man up, and admit it publicly.



Link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140303/court-storming-new-mexico-state-utah-valley-mick-cronin-cincinnati/#ixzz2v19KZzGc

Good for Ted to man up. But he should have T'd up Cronin before he ever even stepped into his space.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Fans don't want to blame their own team. Or their own coaches. Or their own players. Also, fans don't want to give the opposing team credit.

Rather, they'd rather blame an independent party that does have a fairly impactful influence over the game: the refs.

It's not fair at all, but it's the reality of the situation. You see it on fan forums in every sport (including DBR) all the time.

You must be mistaken. Duke gets all the calls all the time. Or had you not heard?

Count me as one who thinks complaining about the refs is the lowest form of fandom

[OldPhiKap]

FWIW, even the evil, despicable human being that Ted Valentine is can recognize when he is wrong, man up, and admit it publicly.



Link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20140303/court-storming-new-mexico-state-utah-valley-mick-cronin-cincinnati/#ixzz2v19KZzGc

1. Glad to see he owned up.

2. His first mistake was not that he stepped into the coach's face and started jawing back at him. It was the flamboyant, unnecessary theatrics of a simple out-of-bounds call.

3 No one is saying that Teddy is evil or despicable. Just bad at his job. Or, more specifically to my opinion, he violates the cardinal rule that umpires and referees should be invisible instead of trying to be the center of attention. Or, as the article in your link says: "Ted Valentine, a veteran of multiple Final Fours whose volatile behavior over the years has too often overshadowed his widely praised skills as an referee."

4. I am sure he is a great guy to have a beer with, and loves his family very much. That is neither the question, nor the point.

[jay]

3 No one is saying that Teddy is evil or despicable. Just bad at his job.

Now you've provided ME with some humor! Hahaha....

Regardless of your completely meaningless opinion of him, Ted Valentine is one of the most respected (yes, you read that right) and sought after (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine/schedule) college basketball officials in the country.

Now, you're free to think what you want to think about him. You can hate his demeanor and mock his "flamboyant" style. But there is a reason he works so much. Because the people whose opinion actually matter like the way he officiates. Including the head of NCAA officiating, which regularly invites him to referee in the Big Dance. And he is generally well respected by coaches, despite the occasional dust-up you see on TV.

So, think what you will about him, that's your right as an arm-chair referee, but let's just be clear about the facts.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Now you've provided ME with some humor! Hahaha....

Regardless of your completely meaningless opinion of him, Ted Valentine is one of the most respected (yes, you read that right) and sought after (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine/schedule) college basketball officials in the country.

Now, you're free to think what you want to think about him. You can hate his demeanor and mock his "flamboyant" style. But there is a reason he works so much. Because the people whose opinion actually matter like the way he officiates. Including the head of NCAA officiating, which regularly invites him to referee in the Big Dance. And he is generally well respected by coaches, despite the occasional dust-up you see on TV.

So, think what you will about him, that's your right as an arm-chair referee, but let's just be clear about the facts.

Outside the fairly hostile language of this post, I think it does raise a really good point: if Teddy V is so bad at his job, why does he keep on getting hired for games?

If it's because there is a lack of ref talent in the game, which I just don't buy as that is an obvious market inefficiency that should have been filled long ago, then refs must be really bad all around.

If it's because Teddy V has been reffing for so long and has established a reputation as a reliable ref despite a few bad games, then I assume that most conferences, who have way more experience, knowledge, and risk assessments than we do, think he's top quality.

If it's because Teddy V has blackmail pictures on every BCS conference commissioner, then, well, my theory goes out the window.

[OldPhiKap]

Now you've provided ME with some humor! Hahaha....

Regardless of your completely meaningless opinion of him, Ted Valentine is one of the most respected (yes, you read that right) and sought after (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine/schedule) college basketball officials in the country.

Now, you're free to think what you want to think about him. You can hate his demeanor and mock his "flamboyant" style. But there is a reason he works so much. Because the people whose opinion actually matter like the way he officiates. Including the head of NCAA officiating, which regularly invites him to referee in the Big Dance. And he is generally well respected by coaches, despite the occasional dust-up you see on TV.

So, think what you will about him, that's your right as an arm-chair referee, but let's just be clear about the facts.

I guess we found the founding member of the "Teddy be my Valentine" club. Good gravy.

Dick Vitale works a lot. Billy Packer called a lot of Final Fours. Len Elmore is in demand. Does that make any of them good? Or just tenured?

But since you want a market-based answer, let's look at how many games the ACC asked him to officiate over the last few seasons (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine/conferences):

2005-6: 16
2006-7: 13
2007-8: 19
2008:9: 0 (zero)
2009-10: 7
2010-11: 3
2011-12: 5
2012-13: 3
2013-14: 0 (zero)

It seems that since 2008, the ACC disagrees with you. Since getting cut off, he has called fewer games in the last six years combined than in the single year before they shut him down. But, no doubt, you find their opinion "meaningless" as well.

[FerryFor50]

I guess we found the founding member of the "Teddy be my Valentine" club. Good gravy.

How do you find time to do anything else in between running the Teddy V *and* UNC basketball fan clubs? :D

[jay]

Outside the fairly hostile language of this post, I think it does raise a really good point: if Teddy V is so bad at his job, why does he keep on getting hired for games?

If it's because there is a lack of ref talent in the game, which I just don't buy as that is an obvious market inefficiency that should have been filled long ago, then refs must be really bad all around.

If it's because Teddy V has been reffing for so long and has established a reputation as a reliable ref despite a few bad games, then I assume that most conferences, who have way more experience, knowledge, and risk assessments than we do, think he's top quality.

If it's because Teddy V has blackmail pictures on every BCS conference commissioner, then, well, my theory goes out the window.

Part of it is because one of OPK's main points is a myth -- in that officials' main job is to be neither seen nor heard by fans, and when you violate that rule, you've now made a spectacle of yourself and thus are a poor official.

Add that on top of the fact that most fans have deluded themselves into thinking they know how to spot a quality official, or a well-officiated game for that matter.

It just boils down to human nature, really. We all think we're experts on everything and know how to do everyone's job better than they do.

[jay]

I guess we found the founding member of the "Teddy be my Valentine" club. Good gravy.

That's cute. You've boiled down your argument into a personal attack. Well done.


Dick Vitale works a lot. Billy Packer called a lot of Final Fours. Len Elmore is in demand. Does that make any of them good? Or just tenured?

But since you want a market-based answer, let's look at how many games the ACC asked him to officiate over the last few seasons (http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine/conferences):

2005-6: 16
2006-7: 13
2007-8: 19
2008:9: 0 (zero)
2009-10: 7
2010-11: 3
2011-12: 5
2012-13: 3
2013-14: 0 (zero)

It seems that since 2008, the ACC disagrees with you. But, no doubt, you find their opinion "meaningless" as well.

Cherry picking statistics to make a point does not necessarily make your point any stronger. You're looking at this through ACC colored glasses, understandably. I can find plenty of officials who have migrated to other conferences similar to the pattern you've shown here. Very successful ones, like TV.

Just because you think the ACC is the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean everyone else does, nor conducts their business with that assumption.

[Reilly]

Dakich: Valentine "antagonistic" and "talked trash to players" ... doesn't understand why he's still hired ...

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2014/03/03/indysportsday-dakich-says-referee-valentine-lucky-he-didnt-get-punched/5969783/

[jay]

Dakich: Valentine "antagonistic" and "talked trash to players" ... doesn't understand why he's still hired ...

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2014/03/03/indysportsday-dakich-says-referee-valentine-lucky-he-didnt-get-punched/5969783/

Interesting. So Mick Cronin is allowed to literally charge at TV, scream at TV, throw his hands in the air like a mad man at TV, continue to berate TV even when TV has clearly given his signal not once, but twice, and Valentine, who makes a mildly aggressive move toward Cronin, is the one who is lucky he didn't get punched?

That's some interesting logic right there from Dakich.

Also, let's just for a moment consider the kind of verbal abuse referees are expected to put up with from players and coaches, without giving any of it back. Our coach included. Coaches can stomp their feet, wave their hands in the air, scream obscenities, and generally act like children and we wave it off as competitiveness. But the second an official shows even the slightest bit of emotion (or even administrates, without emotion, a technical foul) we jump on their case and start criticizing them.

If Cronin wants to talk about double standards when it comes to officiating, perhaps he should look in the mirror first.

[kshepinthehouse]

How is it MILDLY aggressive to jump in another man's face? I'd say that pretty darn aggressive. By the way, referees in major conferences can make nearly $3,000 a game. These guys aren't exactly the poor souls you make them out to be. I will be glad to let people scream at me and say all kinds of bad things about me and my family for two hours if you wanna pay me $3,000.

[Reilly]

Two things I believe true: (1) coaches should be a lot more civil in general and to refs in particular; and (2) Valentine's a long-time, well-known jackass and bad ref, no matter his hiring record.

[jay]

How is it MILDLY aggressive to jump in another man's face? I'd say that pretty darn aggressive.

Compare and contrast. Context is key.

[jay]

Two things I believe true: (1) coaches should be a lot more civil in general and to refs in particular; and (2) Valentine's a long-time, well-known jackass and bad ref, no matter his hiring record.

Calling TV a bad ref despite his record is like calling DBR a crappy Duke basketball fan site, just because you don't like how the moderators operate. It's a silly argument.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Two things I believe true: (1) coaches should be a lot more civil in general and to refs in particular; and (2) Valentine's a long-time, well-known jackass and bad ref, no matter his hiring record.

Not questioning either point (and I fully agree with (1)), but this Teddy V situation really interests me. If Teddy V is so bad (and I don't know either way), how in God's name does he keep on getting hired? That is what interests me so much. I don't get it. These are multi-billion dollar organizations with insane planning, financial, and risk assessment departments. Why put yourself at risk with someone who they think is bad?

I don't have an answer for this question, but it sounds like DBR believes a) Teddy V isn't a good ref and b) he shouldn't be hired. But the discrepancy is that he is hired. A lot. For plenty of BCS games, many of which are important.

[Reilly]

I'm calling Valentine a bad ref *because of* his record -- his record of anatogonism, showmanship, and making things worse rather than better -- and despite the fact that he has continued to have been hired.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Could Teddy V be the Bobby Knight of reffing? Really good at his primary job as a ref but pretty horrific with attitude? Maybe Teddy V's stats as a ref (% of missed calls, foul disparity, flow of the game, etc) are better than most refs and conferences are willing to overlook his attitude because he gets the job done.

[Reilly]

flyingdutchdevil, we live in a world of imperfect information and imperfect decision-makers -- could it be as simple as that? I'm amazed he's still hired, so is Dan Dakich. OPK trotted out Billy Packer -- good Lord, should we/could we have been rid of him years earlier? Inertia, laziness, poor information, mismanagement .... who knows ...

[jay]

Could Teddy V be the Bobby Knight of reffing? Really good at his primary job as a ref but pretty horrific with attitude? Maybe Teddy V's stats as a ref (% of missed calls, foul disparity, flow of the game, etc) are better than most refs and conferences are willing to overlook his attitude because he gets the job done.

I think most fans and commentators overplay the "attitude" angle. A lot of people just don't like his body language -- how he interacts with players, coaches, very hands on, very handsy, very demonstrative.

All of that, however, is subjective. I will tell you that a lot of players, coaches and conference assignors like that hands-on approach to officiating. They like knowing they can interact with an official who will not only listen to them, but go out of their way to explain things to them. They don't want a robot out there on the floor, devoid of emotion or response.

So, yes, with TV you take the good with the not-so-good. But I would venture to say that conference assignors recognize that for every 1 dust-up TV is involved in, he prevents 10 through his officiating style.

And I will also tell you that neither officials nor assignors give two hoots about what fans think.

[flyingdutchdevil]

flyingdutchdevil, we live in a world of imperfect information and imperfect decision-makers -- could it be as simple as that? I'm amazed he's still hired, so is Dan Dakich. OPK trotted out Billy Packer -- good Lord, should we/could we have been rid of him years earlier? Inertia, laziness, poor information, mismanagement .... who knows ...

I can't believe that in today's world, where analytics and risk strategy rule (including college sports).

I agree it's surprising he's still hired, and this incident may be the straw that breaks the camel's back, but I'd be baffled to hear if inertia, laziness, poor information, and mismanagement are to blame.

I'm sure every conference has a team of folks whose sole responsibility it is to get the best refs for the game. I'm sure they go through plenty of screening tests. I may be giving college sports too much credit, but I'd be surprised if these organizations didn't have these checks and balances in place.

[OldPhiKap]

Dakich: Valentine "antagonistic" and "talked trash to players" ... doesn't understand why he's still hired ...

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2014/03/03/indysportsday-dakich-says-referee-valentine-lucky-he-didnt-get-punched/5969783/

Money quote:


Never shy of voicing his opinion, ESPN commentator and former IU player and coach Dan Dakich didn't mince words regarding Valentine's latest antics.

"The issue is Valentine. Valentine is lucky he didn't get punched. You walk up on somebody like that, you better know the person you're walking on. Valentine has always been antagonistic, he's always talked trash to players, he's always acted like the game is above him."

"He's not even close to a great official. A great official doesn't do that. And all these guys hire him. I don't understand it."


I will admit that I rarely know what I'm talking about. In this case, though, at least I'm in the company of those who do.

[OldPhiKap]

I'm sure every conference has a team of folks whose sole responsibility it is to get the best refs for the game. I'm sure they go through plenty of screening tests. I may be giving college sports too much credit, but I'd be surprised if these organizations didn't have these checks and balances in place.

Which is why, I would suggest, he does not call many games in the ACC any more. Clearly, he went from 19 games in a season to only 18 over the next six years combined. Someone shut him off.

[jay]

Which is why, I would suggest, he does not call many games in the ACC any more. Clearly, he went from 19 games in a season to only 18 over the next six years combined. Someone shut him off.

Ever stop to consider that perhaps Ted Valentine doesn't want to ref in the ACC as much any more, and not the other way around??

[jay]

I will admit that I rarely know what I'm talking about. In this case, though, at least I'm in the company of those who do.

Color me unsurprised that a former Bobby Knight disciple who has a large microphone and gets paid for opining has nothing nice to say about Ted Valentine.

[kshepinthehouse]

Color me unsurprised that a former Bobby Knight disciple who has a large microphone and gets paid for opining has nothing nice to say about Ted Valentine.

Just tell us why you love Teddy so much.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Ever stop to consider that Ted Valentine doesn't want to ref in the ACC as much any more, and not the other way around??

You have one helluva thread goin here. You called into question the integrity of a moderator who acknowleged he was headed to look for citations, you are defendin the integrity of a well-known conference villain, and now you are moving the goal posts of our arguement. All after threadjacking a convervation about quesionable coach behavior.

You self-adulation and grandstanding behavior in the midst of a greater discussion reminds me of a referee who makes the game all about him. If only I had a relevant example to throw out.

You are one of the most successful trolls I have seen in my many many years posting and/or reading this site. Now, please move on to bigger and better things.

Coaches should behave better. Referees should be impartial. DBR posters should have better filters. Is this more of the SB Nation-izing of the site? Not a fan.

[jay]

Is this more of the SB Nation-izing of the site? Not a fan.

If calling a poster a troll because they have a different opinion of you qualifies as "SB Nation-izing" then I would agree with you, I'm not a fan.

Let's also clear something else up.

I sincerely apologize, Newton, for calling you out with such harsh language. It didn't set a very good tone for this conversation and I take responsibility for that.

I would, however, hope that the standard of not putting forth unverifiable, negative information as fact does not just apply for Duke players and coaches, but for all individuals.

[BlueDster]

I think where some confusion arises is the manner in which Teddy Valentine makes big calls, not the actual accuracy of the call. I believe (with no formal evidence) that TV is as good as or better than any other ref at accurately determining what occurred on the court and calling it as such. Where I feel he sometimes errs is by making the call so dramatically that it feels antagonizing to players, coaches, and fans that are on the wrong side of the call - to the point that it can cause an already emotionally charged situation to boil over. While not technically disallowed, it's my opinion that these boisterous calls, while arguably entertaining particularly to the uninvolved viewer, can add insult to injury in a way that increases the likelihood of conflict.

That being said, I do have fond memories of my one interaction with him. At the Duke-UNC game in Cameron in 2008 (I believe), TV was officiating the game. At some point he called a foul I did not agree with, and I put my hands out 90 degrees at my sides in the classic "WTF?" pose. TV looked right at me while I kept my arms raised. I shook my head back and forth "no"; he looked right at me and nodded his head vigorously "yes." I have to say that I cracked up and will always remember that moment, even though I disagreed with the call.

[kshepinthehouse]

I think where some confusion arises is the manner in which Teddy Valentine makes big calls, not the actual accuracy of the call. I believe (with no formal evidence) that TV is as good as or better than any other ref at accurately determining what occurred on the court and calling it as such. Where I feel he sometimes errs is by making the call so dramatically that it feels antagonizing to players, coaches, and fans that are on the wrong side of the call - to the point that it can cause an already emotionally charged situation to boil over. While not technically disallowed, it's my opinion that these boisterous calls, while arguably entertaining particularly to the uninvolved viewer, can add insult to injury in a way that increases the likelihood of conflict.

That being said, I do have fond memories of my one interaction with him. At the Duke-UNC game in Cameron in 2008 (I believe), TV was officiating the game. At some point he called a foul I did not agree with, and I put my hands out 90 degrees at my sides in the classic "WTF?" pose. TV looked right at me while I kept my arms raised. I shook my head back and forth "no"; he looked right at me and nodded his head vigorously "yes." I have to say that I cracked up and will always remember that moment, even though I disagreed with the call.

100% agreed. It's not the calls necessarily it's how he makes them. Also, it seems as though he is looking for the opportunity to make a dramatic call.

[jv001]

100% agreed. It's not the calls necessarily it's how he makes them. Also, it seems as though he is looking for the opportunity to make a dramatic call.

Does this quote make anyone think of former ref, Dick Paparo? He was the world's worst ref and he handed Coach K a few techs. GoDuke!

[Kfanarmy]

If calling a poster a troll because they have a different opinion of you qualifies as "SB Nation-izing" then I would agree with you, I'm not a fan.

Let's also clear something else up.

I sincerely apologize, Newton, for calling you out with such harsh language. It didn't set a very good tone for this conversation and I take responsibility for that.

I would, however, hope that the standard of not putting forth unverifiable, negative information as fact does not just apply for Duke players and coaches, but for all individuals.
Apologies should say "I'm sorry" and not be followed with self serving tripe.

[oldnavy]

Jay Bilas is giving his point of view as a fan of the game, I get that... but the refs already have the authority to clean up the behavior of the coaches "IF" they feel they need to clean it up... to me it is between the refs and the coaches.

Having a coach get fired up and fuss doesn't bother me in the least... not sure why it would upset anyone, it is just part of the game IMO.

I like a little emotion with my game.

But that is just my opinion.

[gus]

How is it MILDLY aggressive to jump in another man's face? I'd say that pretty darn aggressive. By the way, referees in major conferences can make nearly $3,000 a game. These guys aren't exactly the poor souls you make them out to be. I will be glad to let people scream at me and say all kinds of bad things about me and my family for two hours if you wanna pay me $3,000.

Not me. You'd have to pay me a lot more to put up with that kind of abuse, especially when so many people are so ignorant of the actual rules.

[oldnavy]

Does this quote make anyone think of former ref, Dick Paparo? He was the world's worst ref and he handed Coach K a few techs. GoDuke!

Good old Dick Paparo... who could forget that guy? He was quite the showman.... too bad it never was "his show"...

I would think that to be a ref, good or bad... the ONE thing you would HAVE TO HAVE is very, very thick skin...

TV seems to let things get to a personal level, hence the personal space violation. No call for that, just T the guy up if he is out of line, don't BOW UP....

[hurleyfor3]

I will be glad to let people scream at me and say all kinds of bad things about me and my family for two hours if you wanna pay me $3,000.

I've had jobs where people did this to me for 45-50 hours a week, and I made much less than that.

[OldPhiKap]

Wall Street Journal has an article today ("College Coaching Behavior: Not as Bad as You Think") which points out that, despite several high-profile incidents (picture of Boeheim attached), it is all confirmation bias:

"As it turns out, despite the high-profile exampes to the contrary, college coaches aren't getting technical fouls at any higher rate this season than they did in the past. Actually, it may be historic in the other direction. With 379 technical fouls assessed to coaches through 9,954 games, this season is on pace to see the lowest rate of coaching technical fouls per game in the last decade, according to Stats LLC."

FWIW.

[hurleyfor3]

Wall Street Journal has an article today ("College Coaching Behavior: Not as Bad as You Think") which points out that, despite several high-profile incidents (picture of Boeheim attached), it is all confirmation bias:

"As it turns out, despite the high-profile exampes to the contrary, college coaches aren't getting technical fouls at any higher rate this season than they did in the past. Actually, it may be historic in the other direction. With 379 technical fouls assessed to coaches through 9,954 games, this season is on pace to see the lowest rate of coaching technical fouls per game in the last decade, according to Stats LLC."

Could be confusing cause and effect. Maybe they get fewer T's because refs have become less willing to pull the trigger. Until I think 1990 you got three T's and the penalty was less severe, one free throw instead of two.

If you're in the bottom 75% of coaches there's probably a career risk element to being known as a hothead. If you're already racking up a bunch of 11-19 seasons you don't endear yourself more to athletic departments, other programs or alumni by getting T'd up all the time.

[oldnavy]

Wall Street Journal has an article today ("College Coaching Behavior: Not as Bad as You Think") which points out that, despite several high-profile incidents (picture of Boeheim attached), it is all confirmation bias:

"As it turns out, despite the high-profile exampes to the contrary, college coaches aren't getting technical fouls at any higher rate this season than they did in the past. Actually, it may be historic in the other direction. With 379 technical fouls assessed to coaches through 9,954 games, this season is on pace to see the lowest rate of coaching technical fouls per game in the last decade, according to Stats LLC."

FWIW.

That's because the refs are all worn out from calling bogus, no-contact phantom calls every 20 seconds.... but it doesn't really bother me, much.... :rolleyes:

Actually, I don't think this data actually would prove that coaching behavior is better.... the fact that there are less techs called could be due to more tolerance from officials... but it is interesting that the number is down, I wouldn't have thought that...

You know years ago we got to see, what 2 maybe three games a week on TV? Now almost every game is available in some medium... I just wonder if we think there is more because we see almost every incidence?

I was too late, I see HF3 beat me to it!

[brevity]

I feel we're moving further away from coach behavior and into referee behavior, but what the hell.

This DBR thread (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?33200) introduced me to a forum where officials talk about their job, and I was about to use its search query when I noticed, not surprisingly, there already was a multi-page thread on Ted Valentine (http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97405-teddy-valentine-edited.html) near the top. It discusses the Mick Cronin encounter and shows a variety of opinions on Valentine, though a strong majority that Cronin should have been assessed a technical foul.

I wanted to check that forum because I was wondering about a previously undiscussed factor: what Ted Valentine's peers think of him. I think fan opinion of a referee is unreliable by design: if he made a questionable call against your team 27 years ago, he is Satan and must be destroyed. That level of irrationality says more about the fan than his beliefs. Peer opinion is going to be clouded with self-preservation -- you don't call out a peer unless you want to restrict your own behavior -- but it still feels more informative to me. There were a couple of naysayers, but most of the refs participating in that thread are okay with him. There is a brief curiosity/speculation as to how his behavior is tolerated at the supervisory level.

[hughgs]

I feel we're moving further away from coach behavior and into referee behavior, but what the hell.

This DBR thread (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?33200) introduced me to a forum where officials talk about their job, and I was about to use its search query when I noticed, not surprisingly, there already was a multi-page thread on Ted Valentine (http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97405-teddy-valentine-edited.html) near the top. It discusses the Mick Cronin encounter and shows a variety of opinions on Valentine, though a strong majority that Cronin should have been assessed a technical foul.

I wanted to check that forum because I was wondering about a previously undiscussed factor: what Ted Valentine's peers think of him. I think fan opinion of a referee is unreliable by design: if he made a questionable call against your team 27 years ago, he is Satan and must be destroyed. That level of irrationality says more about the fan than his beliefs. Peer opinion is going to be clouded with self-preservation -- you don't call out a peer unless you want to restrict your own behavior -- but it still feels more informative to me. There were a couple of naysayers, but most of the refs participating in that thread are okay with him. There is a brief curiosity/speculation as to how his behavior is tolerated at the supervisory level.

My father, an internationally certified judo referee and referee instructor, once gave me some insight into the job of a referee. I shared that once on this venue and I'll share it again.

The referee's job is NOT to make the correct call all the time. That's impossible. The referee's job is to follow the correct process to make a call. In basketball, that means the referee needs to be in the correct position, watching the correct portion of the play, and making the call based on what he sees.

That is vastly different than the argument that a referee is bad because he missed a call. Of course referees miss calls. What is important is that the referee follow the proper procedures. if he does all that, then misses a call, that's OK from the referee's stand-point. The referees know that it is impossible to see everything. So, they do the one thing they can control, and that is their process.

What does this mean for Valentine and his reputation? Maybe it means that he is following the correct procedure more often than we know. How is that possible when he "misses" so many calls? I would venture to guess that not many of us actually know how to referee a basketball game, which is quite different than recognizing a foul.

[FerryFor50]

I think if a ref like Ted V is too preoccupied with how he looks while making a call (hey look at meeee!) then it distracts them from the primary duty of reffing.

It's showy, unnecessary and a distraction for everyone involved.

That's why he's a bad ref. Not necessarily because of his calls... (Though he has had some doozies)