PDA

View Full Version : VCU 67, St. Louis 56



ice-9
03-01-2014, 07:00 PM
#10!!!

How is St Louis #10??

VCU is up 10 points with 3 minutes left to go.

And I'm still deeply puzzled as to why this St Louis team is #10.

They lost to Wisconsin and Wichita State, two understandable losses. They lost to Duquesne, which was terrible. But overall, not a horrible loss profile if they have a good win profile. So let's see who they've beaten...

...Nobody of consequence.

Best win of the season is a 2-point home victory against...yup, unranked VCU who they are losing to right now.

I don't get how St Louis is #10. (They're #26 on KenPom, and probably lower after the VCU game is factored in.)

What am I missing?


- ice "finding something to talk about until Duke plays again ;)" 9

FerryFor50
03-01-2014, 07:02 PM
Same reason Wichita St is #2: they took advantage of their weak schedule and won enough to inch up.

Keep in mind the Duquesne loss was this week. SLU was dropping from 10 regardless of what happened with VCU.

ice-9
03-01-2014, 07:08 PM
Same reason Wichita St is #2: they took advantage of their weak schedule and won enough to inch up.

Keep in mind the Duquesne loss was this week. SLU was dropping from 10 regardless of what happened with VCU.

I get that explanation. It probably explains most of it.

But then there's Stephen F Austin at 26-2. One good loss on the road to Texas, and a horrible loss on the road to ETSU. No great wins, same as St Louis.

Since the end of November the Lumberjacks have been undefeated. Undefeated!! Since November 26, 2013 SF Austin has had the same record as Wichita St and a better one than St Louis.

Why isn't SF Austin ranked #10?

So the poll-inching-with-no-losses explains some, but doesn't explain all.


- ice "playing devil's advocate just for the heck of it" 9

vick
03-01-2014, 07:12 PM
I get that explanation. It probably explains most of it.

But then there's Stephen F Austin at 26-2. One good loss on the road to Texas, and a horrible loss on the road to ETSU. No great wins, same as St Louis.

Since the end of November the Lumberjacks have been undefeated. Undefeated! Why isn't SF Austin #10 along with St Louis?

So the poll-inching-with-no-losses explains some, but doesn't explain all.


- ice "playing devil's advocate just for the heck of it" 9

The Southland Conference, which Stephen F Austin plays in, is atrocious. St. Louis leads a conference that is basically as good as the SEC. No real comparison here.

ice-9
03-01-2014, 07:23 PM
The Southland Conference, which Stephen F Austin plays in, is atrocious. St. Louis leads a conference that is basically as good as the SEC. No real comparison here.

There's truth in that. St Louis was first ranked on the Jan 13 poll at about the start of conference play, and probably an overreaction to their road win against Dayton two days before. (Getting ranked on that basis was premature IMO; it would have been better if St Louis entered the polls after winning a few more conference games.) But they climbed ever since on the back of no losses.

Clearly there's been some massive poll inflation -- this team is not the #10 team in the country, not even last week before the Duquesne loss.


- ice "c'mon guys this discussion is way too sensible (i.e. boring)" 9

Wander
03-01-2014, 07:25 PM
I get that explanation. It probably explains most of it.

But then there's Stephen F Austin at 26-2. One good loss on the road to Texas, and a horrible loss on the road to ETSU. No great wins, same as St Louis.

Since the end of November the Lumberjacks have been undefeated. Undefeated!! Since November 26, 2013 SF Austin has had the same record as Wichita St and a better one than St Louis.

Why isn't SF Austin ranked #10?

So the poll-inching-with-no-losses explains some, but doesn't explain all.


- ice "playing devil's advocate just for the heck of it" 9

You are falling prey to the common misconception that "mid-majors" are just everyone outside the BCS conferences. Saint Louis is a mid-major; their schedule ranks 101st (kenpom). SF Austin is a low major; their schedule ranks 338th. All that said I agree 10 was too high for them.

ice-9
03-01-2014, 07:38 PM
You are falling prey to the common misconception that "mid-majors" are just everyone outside the BCS conferences. Saint Louis is a mid-major; their schedule ranks 101st (kenpom). SF Austin is a low major; their schedule ranks 338th. All that said I agree 10 was too high for them.

Yeah I get that, just trying to stir some debate. I don't really think SF Austin deserves to be ranked!!

jcannon
03-01-2014, 08:26 PM
Yeah I get that, just trying to stir some debate. I don't really think SF Austin deserves to be ranked!!

This is what happens when we have 8 days between games at the beginning of March. I agree that Saint Louis is not 10th best team in the country, but when you don't lose, only way to go is up. The positive to them being ranked so high is that when my UNCheat friends started bragging about being ranked in the top 25 finally, I had a chance to remind them that they were still ranked behind national basketball powers like Saint Louis, Creighton, and San Diego State. That shut them up quickly.

hurleyfor3
03-01-2014, 08:33 PM
Wasn't there a two-loss team about a decade ago that didn't even make the tournament? Meaning they lost in their conference tournament and had one loss elsewhere. I was thinking it was Utah State but it wasn't them.

bedeviled
03-01-2014, 09:03 PM
I was thinking it was Utah State but it wasn't them.I think you are remembering Utah State (2003-2004), which went 25-3. According to Cinderella: Inside the Rise of Mid-major Basketball (http://books.google.com/books?id=10k2MmUaCl4C&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=utah+state+2003-2004+NCAA+tournament&source=bl&ots=shb4osP9l2&sig=zk0NTjRf4eylsA4xzxqtxRfVqRc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=iZ0SU9bxC-bY0gGvx4CABQ&ved=0CCMQ6AEwADgK#v=onepage&q=utah%20state%202003-2004%20NCAA%20tournament&f=false), their RPI was 43 with record of 1-1 against RPI top 50 teams. And, notably, they were ranked in the AP Top 25 at the time of the "snub."

hurleyfor3
03-01-2014, 09:09 PM
You are wrong....because you are right. I think you are remembering Utah State (2003-2004), which went 25-3.

Yep, I was thinking of Utah State in 2004. They went 25-2 in the regular season, then lost in their conference tournament to Cal-Northridge, then lost in the Nit to Hawaii. I was looking on cbb-reference but was looking for a two-loss team, not a three-loss one, and forgot to account for Nit play.