WBB: UNC 64, Duke 60

[aswewere]

DW HOOPS preview http://www.dwhoops.com/Duke/1403011-duke-at-north-carolina-unc-preview.php

[sduke1986]

Let's go ladies! Show these Tar Holes that even with a ton of injuries, that we have the heart and will to get it done.

[dukelifer]

Let's go ladies! Show these Tar Heels that even with a ton of injuries, that we have the heart and will to get it done.

This time Duke is playing with house money

[burnspbesq]

This time Duke is playing with house money

Until Sylvia walks out onto the court (if her doctors allow it).

Given the circumstances, a win tomorrow would be something to treasure and memorialize. I could go for a banner with the names of all the players being hung somewhere inside Cameron. Maybe not over the court; that's hallowed space. But somewhere in the concourse, or between the locker room and the court where players will see it whenever they come out to play a game.

[AIM4excellence]

This time Duke is playing with house money

Yes, we saw the beginnings of adaptations being made in the Wake Forest game. I thought the players looked looser and that they are responding well to learning new roles on the fly. I think it's a work in progress, with the team mainly getting prepared for the ACC tournament and the NCAA's. We've certainly had some great wins at Carmichael, with the most satisfying win being Nikki Teasley's senior year. She (Teasley) was a phenomenal talent who was also a jack a-- so defeating her in that game was gratifying. Following that with a ACC tourney final victory was most excellent, with frosh Mo Currie taking home ACC tourney MVP, having outplayed senior Teasley.

I like Oderah Chidom having a much larger role on the team and she is rising to the occasion. I personally think she would have contributed more throughout the season if she'd been given the minutes, but that's a moot point now. She's a rebounding machine when she's in the flow of the game and she an contribute offensively in diverse ways. Her biggest weakness at this point is defensive postitioning, which I think she can learn with some focused film work.

[aswewere]

A win or very good performance today will have a strong bearing on our NCAA seeding.
2, 3 or 4 placement could be on the line today.

[sagegrouse]

In Carmichael Arena.

[Kedsy]

OK, here's my question: if we end up using a junk defense with four players in a zone and one player chasing DeShields, does that mean we'll be playing a "diamond and Diamond"?

Food for thought. ;)

[awhom111]

OK, here's my question: if we end up using a junk defense with four players in a zone and one player chasing DeShields, does that mean we'll be playing a "diamond and Diamond"?

Food for thought. ;)

I think the announcers already made that joke when NC State played a box and one against them.

[Kedsy]

I think the announcers already made that joke when NC State played a box and one against them.

Alas. I didn't see the State/UNC game, so I'll just apologize for the cheesy joke and move on.

[sduke1986]

Good start, but a lot of selfish play, got to hit basic layups. Liston is a turnover machine. Can't complain though, we are doing as well as can be expected. C'mon ladies let's do it!

[sduke1986]

Settline for jump shots 3 seconds into the shot clock.... C'mon, play smarter!

[sduke1986]

Two pretty ugly shots back to back. C'mon girls, lets get this, focus!!

[sduke1986]

What a trash foul call, jeeeeze.

[sduke1986]

Great ball movement there by Liz and Liston, just wouldn't fall.

[sduke1986]

What's the gameplan here?

[sduke1986]

Awesome pass to Henson there! Too bad we can't stop layups on the other end. Great shot by Liston!!

[sduke1986]

Liston is in takeover mode!!!!

[sduke1986]

Jesus man, our girls seem incapable of stopping layups.

[sduke1986]

First half thoughts... We have to actually make an effort to stop them from making basic, wide open layups. We make some of the most HORRIBLE passes I have ever seen. Quit throwing the ball away, if someone is not open, do not give them the ball. This is not NBA Jam, pass the ball around. These are easy fixes and can be avoided with a little bit of awareness. Let's go ladies, we can beat this team! Go Duke!

[sduke1986]

Not the best start to the half here...

[Bob Green]

Carolina opens the 2nd half with a 13-0 run to blow this game open. We need to respond fast and strong or this one is going to get away.

[Duvall]

I feel bad for the higher seed that will have to play Duke in Durham in a couple of weeks.

[Wander]

Is there a 3 point line on this court?

[Bob Green]

Duke responds with a 12-0 run to cut the lead to single digits!

[killerleft]

Down only 5.

[killerleft]

Down 3, no call on Williams try. Heel ball at 7:16 left.

[sduke1986]

Down 3, no call on Williams try. Heel ball at 7:16 left.

Epic comeback, we gotta get these crucial rebounds!

[sduke1986]

Gotta make free throws, c'mon!!!

[killerleft]

Down 1, 4:17

[sduke1986]

Heck yea, let's take this game! ELIZABETH YOU HAVE TO GET THAT FREAKIN BOARD!!!!

[killerleft]

Down three, unc ball at the under 4 timout. Duke back after being 19 down.

[devildeac]

Keep up the good work, folks. I'm staying away from the TV/radio/remotes.

I really do like Santa Claus, children and puppies.

[Duvall]

Well, that's that. Good effort, limited scheme and execution. So it goes.

[killerleft]

Women's refs just suck. Down 7, :53, unc fts to come.

[sduke1986]

These refs are idiots. What the hell do you have to do to get a foul called there????? There were like 4 fouls commited to send them to the line and no whistle blown, what a joke.

[DownEastDevil]

Poor foul shooting and bad shot selection down the stretch.

[dubldvman]

Well we needed 1 player to play an entire game to win and it didn't happen. Liston awesome in the first, non existent in the second. Williams like 4-900 from the field, too many wide open layups given to UNC, EW could have 17 rebounds right now.

Proud of the heart and grit displayed by the girls to get back into it, but jeeze man, we have got to play smarter going forward.

I appreciate your sincere support and I love Duke but there will be no going forward. And dont talk about heart. Coach P's 2nd half gameplan was fill the post and see if UNC hit from perimeter. That brilliant coaching move got DeShields and Gray going and it was over. Our gritty comeback resulted in nothing at the end and when we got down by 7 again Coach P kept us in the zone---how absurd is that? We better get used to losing to the Heels because freshman just swept a senior-laden team.

[throatybeard]

That was agonizing to watch. The turnovers were absurd. I suppose that what happens when you don't have any guards.

[sduke1986]

I appreciate your sincere support and I love Duke but there will be no going forward. And dont talk about heart. Coach P's 2nd half gameplan was fill the post and see if UNC hit from perimeter. That brilliant coaching move got DeShields and Gray going and it was over. Our gritty comeback resulted in nothing at the end and when we got down by 7 again Coach P kept us in the zone---how absurd is that? We better get used to losing to the Heels because freshman just swept a senior-laden team.

You're preaching to the choir here my friend. If you read some of my past posts, you will surely know this. I was congratulating our girls for the heart and grit that they displayed. Don't mistake my praise of the girls for any kind of positive feelings toward the coaching job that P did out there today.

[Kedsy]

It's tough to give up 20 points in a row and still win. The fact that we got within 1 was a major achievement but not quite enough. The team showed a lot of grit. A couple breaks go our way and the end result might have been different, but I'm proud of the way we kept fighting.

[Bob Green]

For the benefit of several posters, here is a quote from the Decorum and Posting Guidelines:


Repetitive rant. A repetitive rant is when other posters can cite your pet peeve in exquisite detail, and yet you keep repeating ad nauseum. Y'know how you get tired of hearing the same three stories from Aunt Ethel? Everyone's tired of hearing your story. Bring something new to the table.

Because we all know an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

[dukelifer]

I appreciate your sincere support and I love Duke but there will be no going forward. And dont talk about heart. Coach P's 2nd half gameplan was fill the post and see if UNC hit from perimeter. That brilliant coaching move got DeShields and Gray going and it was over. Our gritty comeback resulted in nothing at the end and when we got down by 7 again Coach P kept us in the zone---how absurd is that? We better get used to losing to the Heels because freshman just swept a senior-laden team.

Hmm . Duke gets a bunch of Freshman next year - so I am sure Duke will return the favor.

[sduke1986]

It's tough to give up 20 points in a row and still win. The fact that we got within 1 was a major achievement but not quite enough. The team showed a lot of grit. A couple breaks go our way and the end result might have been different, but I'm proud of the way we kept fighting.

I agree!

[killerleft]

Horrendous start to 2nd half ultimately killed us. Great effort, plan was good. I thought the super effort to get back in it left us tired at the end. Bitter loss with the comeback, but playing without point guards is certainly a challenge. Somehow we put pressure on them anyway.

I saw absolutely no evidence that the players have quit on McCallie, didn't listen to McCallie, or that our game plan was bad. I was impressed with both the spirit of the players and beautiful leadership shown by our injured All-American Chelsea Gray. Great to see Alexis Jones at the game, sad that the two playmakers couldn't play in this game. The intentional FT miss by Tricia was certainly unexpected, but inspired.

[burnspbesq]

Coach P's 2nd half gameplan was fill the post and see if UNC hit from perimeter.

And what, exactly, would you have done? Before you answer, Coach, let me remind you that you only had one lockdown perimeter defender at the start of the season, and she's sitting next to you with surgical staples holding her leg together.

[Mike Corey]

Helluvan effort given the litany of health issues this team continues to have.

[burnspbesq]

Oddly enough, 22-5 is exactly what I thought our regular-season record would be when I first looked at the schedule. I thought we would split w/Carolina and lose one or the other of @Kentucky or @Oklahoma. There was never any reason to believe we were good enough to beat UConn or ND unless we hit them with a 99th-percentile performance AND caught them on an off night. Which didn't happen. Playing UConn in the first game after finals pretty much guaranteed there would be no 99th-percentile performance that night:; one assumes that was done at ESPN's behest, and hopes the revenue was enough to justify it.

The only thing I will second-guess the staff about is the decision to redshirt Greenwell. She was ready to go in early January, and even if she had only gotten 8-10 minutes a game prior to the injuries hitting, she might well have been in a position to make a difference today and for the rest of the season.

[AIM4excellence]

And what, exactly, would you have done? Before you answer, Coach, let me remind you that you only had one lockdown perimeter defender at the start of the season, and she's sitting next to you with surgical staples holding her leg together.

Actually our only "lockdown" defender has been riding the pine all season. Today Ka'lia scored her season high points. Lexi is our quickest offensive player but her defense is not stellar.

And, regarding the players listening to the coach...I'll say they are all ears right now. Their only shot to get anywhere next weekend and in the NCAA's are to make use of their height and control turnovers. Post players have got to dribble and pass, forwards have to lead the team, shoot and defend the perimeter. Everybody has to want the ball and fight for it.

Tricia's line today was VERY similar to Diamond's. She needed more help and didn't get it.

[Des Esseintes]

Helluvan effort given the litany of health issues this team continues to have.

Agreed. As frustrated and bummed as we fans are, our unhappiness must pale in comparison to the staff and players'. They knew this year had the potential to be truly special, and Fortune has swept that away from them. The Greeks used to say that Great Jove keeps two urns by his doorstep, one of good luck and one of bad. To the fortunate people in this life, he gives from *both* urns.

[chrishoke]

EW was 5-18 from the field, many from point blank range. That was the main reason we came up short.

[aswewere]

Horrendous start to 2nd half ultimately killed us. Great effort, plan was good. I thought the super effort to get back in it left us tired at the end. Bitter loss with the comeback, but playing without point guards is certainly a challenge. Somehow we put pressure on them anyway.

I saw absolutely no evidence that the players have quit on McCallie, didn't listen to McCallie, or that our game plan was bad. I was impressed with both the spirit of the players and beautiful leadership shown by our injured All-American Chelsea Gray. Great to see Alexis Jones at the game, sad that the two playmakers couldn't play in this game. The intentional FT miss by Tricia was certainly unexpected, but inspired.

How did you like all the designed plays and screens set to get Liston our all time best shooter open?

[killerleft]

How did you like all the designed plays and screens set to get Liston our all time best shooter open?

We sure have a stupid coach, don't we? Even my junior high coach designed some plays to get his best scorers open. You're the one who revealed that Coach P is of bad character and not classy, too, aren't you? Keep up the good work!

[AIM4excellence]

Oddly enough, 22-5 is exactly what I thought our regular-season record would be when I first looked at the schedule.

This explains a LOT about our different viewpoints on the team. With the talent on this team, I expected nothing less than competing for the National Championship. When it became obvious the team would be unlikely to reach the FF again, it was very disappointing. Losing all four of our point guards has obviously led to lower expectations at this point.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

How did you like all the designed plays and screens set to get Liston our all time best shooter open?

Your continued snarkiness and obvious agenda undercuts any perhaps valid points that you may make. People stop listening.

[burnspbesq]

This explains a LOT about our different viewpoints on the team. With the talent on this team, I expected nothing less than competing for the National Championship. When it became obvious the team would be unlikely to reach the FF again, it was very disappointing. Losing all four of our point guards has obviously led to lower expectations at this point.

At the risk of sounding a little condescending (which I don't mean to be) ...

The talent on your team is only part of the analysis. One thing that is true of every basketball game ever played is that there are two teams out there, they're both talented, and they both try hard. UConn lost only one key contributor from last year's national championship team, and had replacement parts lined up for Faris. They are simply better than we are. Similarly, ND lost only one key contributor from a Final Four team, and while Diggins was both more important to her team than Faris and harder to replace, they recruited well and those kids were ready to step in. ND is simply better than we are. Carolina had the consensus top recruiting class coming in, and as it turned out, Sylvia wasn't around to screw them up (they'll regress next year).

I still think that at full strength, we're better (perhaps a lot better) than Louisville or South Carolina. At full strength on a neutral court, I think we beat Stanford; there's only one Ogwumike, and we were better at every other spot on the floor. We proved that we're better than Maryland, and I think we could play them 100 times and win at least 80. So, yes, I thought we had a chance to be a Final Four team. But not for a second did I see us winning the championship unless the stars aligned perfectly. And we were never a lock for the Final Four.

It's unfortunate that this year is going to come up short of expectations, but some of that has to do with the expectations.

[Kedsy]

How did you like all the designed plays and screens set to get Liston our all time best shooter open?


This explains a LOT about our different viewpoints on the team. With the talent on this team, I expected nothing less than competing for the National Championship. When it became obvious the team would be unlikely to reach the FF again, it was very disappointing. Losing all four of our point guards has obviously led to lower expectations at this point.


For the benefit of several posters, here is a quote from the Decorum and Posting Guidelines:



Because we all know an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

As quotes above Bob Green's illustrate, it appears we needed a lot more than a measly ounce of prevention in this particular case. Alas.

[Kedsy]

At full strength on a neutral court, I think we beat Stanford...

At full strength I think we beat UNC consistently this season as well. We'd be at least as talented, if not more, and we'd have experience against their youth. Honestly, I think at full strength we'd have given Notre Dame a run for their money. It's a shame we'll never be able to find out.

[DU82]

Carolina had the consensus top recruiting class coming in, and as it turned out, Sylvia wasn't around to screw them up (they'll regress next year).

So, guess I wasn't the only one who thought this.

[Wander]

It often gets brought up how little parity there is in women's basketball, but the same thing that causes that - a really shallow talent pool - also has another effect that doesn't get talked about a much: injuries matter A LOT, more so than in other sports. Getting good players injured can lead to a team completely falling apart or absurd results like a 1 seed losing to a 16 seed (for those who may not know, that's not a hypothetical). I don't feel strongly about Coach P one way or the other, but honestly this year I think we've fared pretty well given our injury situation.

[burnspbesq]

It often gets brought up how little parity there is in women's basketball, but the same thing that causes that - a really shallow talent pool - also has another effect that doesn't get talked about a much: injuries matter A LOT, more so than in other sports. Getting good players injured can lead to a team completely falling apart or absurd results like a 1 seed losing to a 16 seed (for those who may not know, that's not a hypothetical). I don't feel strongly about Coach P one way or the other, but honestly this year I think we've fared pretty well given our injury situation.

I remember that 1 vs. 16 game. Somebody said "fight fiercely, Harvard," and they did.

[Indoor66]

I remember that 1 vs. 16 game. Somebody said "fight fiercely, Harvard," and they did.

Yeah and I believe it was Tom Lehrer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J04FRsesBQ).

[CameronBornAndBred]

As a huge supporter of Coach P, I lay yesterday's loss directly on her shoulders. The comeback was amazing, and her coaching helped make it happen. Our defense was intense, we held UNC scoreless for a long time, as "50" sat on their side of the box score while we put buckets in the basket.
And then she for some reason changed to the zone, and the Heels ate us alive. I didn't understand the strategy...IF you are making great progress, why put yourself in a position that burns the clock and leaves the back door open for easy opportunities? (Carolina happily took advantage of both.)
Just as K makes some questionable coaching decisions that have cost us games in the past, Coach McCallie made a big mistake yesterday.
That being said, I'm a little more optimistic about the tourneys now. I still don't expect a deep run in either, but this team obviously CAN work, and now we have some time to make adjustments in practice. LGD!!!

[AIM4excellence]

I'm surprised there has been no reference here to Coach McCallie not shaking hands (or even slapping hands) with Diamond DeShields in the post game handshake line. It's been quite the topic among women's basketball fans and even aired on local TV stations.

This morning, Coach JPM issued a tweet: "Self-reflection is very hard. It hurts, it instructs. Character is seeking out the path of change. I am willing."

What do folks make of this?

[jtelander]

I'm surprised there has been no reference here to Coach McCallie not shaking hands (or even slapping hands) with Diamond DeShields in the post game handshake line. It's been quite the topic among women's basketball fans and even aired on local TV stations.

This morning, Coach JPM issued a tweet: "Self-reflection is very hard. It hurts, it instructs. Character is seeking out the path of change. I am willing."

What do folks make of this?

Saw this on other discussion boards

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/3-02-2014/3iLruF.gif

[miramar]

I'm surprised there has been no reference here to Coach McCallie not shaking hands (or even slapping hands) with Diamond DeShields in the post game handshake line. It's been quite the topic among women's basketball fans and even aired on local TV stations.

This morning, Coach JPM issued a tweet: "Self-reflection is very hard. It hurts, it instructs. Character is seeking out the path of change. I am willing."

What do folks make of this?

At the very minimum you expect a Bobby Knight blow-off handshake, where at least the coach pretends to care. I am occasionally confused by some of McCallie's comments, tweets, and I guess now this, so I honestly don't know what to make of it. I would have to say that self reflection is not that hard and that character should prevent you from getting into these situations.

Since you seem to be in the area, what have the TV stations said about all this?

[AIM4excellence]

At the very minimum you expect a Bobby Knight blow-off handshake, where at least the coach pretends to care. I am occasionally confused by some of McCallie's comments, tweets, and I guess now this, so I honestly don't know what to make of it. I would have to say that self reflection is not that hard and that character should prevent you from getting into these situations.

Since you seem to be in the area, what have the TV stations said about all this?

They just include a clip with it obvious McCallie walked past DeShields without shaking hands (or slapping hands). They show it when they're saying that Duke was clearly not happy at being swept by UNC. The faces of Alisha Gray and Diamond DeShields basically do the talking, as it's highly unusual.

I remember when Nikki Teasley scratched the face of an opponent in the post game handshake line. Some UNC admin saw it and demanded that Coach Hatchell punish Teasley for it and she was suspended for a game or two. I'm not sure if it was before or after Teasley left the team for awhile and shared publicly that she was diagnosed with Depression.

I don't remember anything like this happening involving a Duke person before.

[jtelander]

John McCallie
‏@nosoc
Sometimes you have to meet evil head on- but other times it may call for a flyby #abovethefray

[Duvall]

John McCallie
‏@nosoc
Sometimes you have to meet evil head on- but other times it may call for a flyby #abovethefray

That guy does not need to be on Twitter.

[AIM4excellence]

John McCallie
‏@nosoc
Sometimes you have to meet evil head on- but other times it may call for a flyby #abovethefray

Whoa - he's calling a player "evil"? Wow. Just WOW. Somebody needs to take away their twitter accounts.

[Kedsy]

Whoa - he's calling a player "evil"? Wow. Just WOW. Somebody needs to take away their twitter accounts.

Why do you think he's talking about a player?

[Duvall]

Why do you think he's talking about a player?

So if he's talking about a coach, that would be okay?

it's not like John McCallie hasn't had impulse control issues in the past. (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/womensbasketball/2007-03-09-3850098907_x.htm)

[Kedsy]

So if he's talking about a coach, that would be okay?

Well I haven't looked at this particular tweet-stream. He could be talking about anyone -- another tweeter, someone he's dealing with at his own job, his plumber. I was simply asking why someone assumed he was talking about a player (or coach, for that matter). If there's evidence or someone knows the story I'd be interested to hear it, otherwise why automatically assume the worst? Because he's married to Coach P?

[uh_no]

Why do you think he's talking about a player?

not sure the context...but I DO know that JPM and Jamie Dixon need to get together and have a hand-shake-etiquette intervention!

[DU82]

Well I haven't looked at this particular tweet-stream. He could be talking about anyone -- another tweeter, someone he's dealing with at his own job, his plumber. I was simply asking why someone assumed he was talking about a player (or coach, for that matter). If there's evidence or someone knows the story I'd be interested to hear it, otherwise why automatically assume the worst? Because he's married to Coach P?

Seriously? The women's basketball community is abuzz with the "flyby" of the two UNC frosh players by Coach P yesterday, her husband tweets something about a flyby, and you think he's on there saying something about his plumber? That's absurd.

THIS is what's upsetting more people about Coach P than the winning/losing. Before you say something ridiculous like this, why don't you look at the particular tweet-stream. Look upstream for some links.

[Duvall]

Well I haven't looked at this particular tweet-stream. He could be talking about anyone -- another tweeter, someone he's dealing with at his own job, his plumber. I was simply asking why someone assumed he was talking about a player (or coach, for that matter). If there's evidence or someone knows the story I'd be interested to hear it, otherwise why automatically assume the worst? Because he's married to Coach P?

Using the exact word "fly-by" today would be a hell of a coincidence.

[Kedsy]

Seriously? The women's basketball community is abuzz with the "flyby" of the two UNC frosh players by Coach P yesterday, her husband tweets something about a flyby, and you think he's on there saying something about his plumber? That's absurd.

THIS is what's upsetting more people about Coach P than the winning/losing. Before you say something ridiculous like this, why don't you look at the particular tweet-stream. Look upstream for some links.

Show me the link to the tweet-stream and I'll look at it. From what I can tell, nobody's linked to it in this thread. It's all conjecture.

[burnspbesq]

FWIW, Louisville got pummelled by UConn tonight.

[Duvall]

Show me the link to the tweet-stream and I'll look at it. From what I can tell, nobody's linked to it in this thread. It's all conjecture.

Here's the tweet. (https://twitter.com/nosoc/status/440655666349625344)

[Kedsy]

Seriously? The women's basketball community is abuzz with the "flyby" of the two UNC frosh players by Coach P yesterday, her husband tweets something about a flyby, and you think he's on there saying something about his plumber? That's absurd.

Also, I didn't really think it was about his plumber. And if you didn't know that, it's way past "absurd."

I will say, though, that I don't think the "women's basketball community" is abuzz with any "flyby" or anything else related to Duke/UNC. I googled it and nothing came up, and there's nothing on ESPN.com. I'm not sure where else the women's basketball community might be buzzing, but if you want to tell me, I'll be happy to check it out.

Until you do, I'll continue to think it's nowhere but Duke and UNC message boards, a pretend issue manufactured by people who don't like Coach P.

[Kedsy]

Here's the tweet. (https://twitter.com/nosoc/status/440655666349625344)

Thanks, but since it doesn't appear to be in response to anything and there don't appear to be any responses, I still can't tell the context.

Also, since he only has 22 followers, I think making an issue of anything he tweets is ridiculous.

[aswewere]

Thanks, but since it doesn't appear to be in response to anything and there don't appear to be any responses, I still can't tell the context.

Also, since he only has 22 followers, I think making an issue of anything he tweets is ridiculous.

Jacki Silar may have a different point of view.

[jv001]

So if he's talking about a coach, that would be okay?

it's not like John McCallie hasn't had impulse control issues in the past. (http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/womensbasketball/2007-03-09-3850098907_x.htm)

It does seem that John McCallie has some self control issues. I can understand fans lining up on the pro and con side of liking or not liking Coach P. Throw away the wins, losses, ACC Championships, no NCAAT championships and what you have left is personal conduct(other things). To some people these other things are important. To some people, these things are not important(It's about winning and losing) and to some people, it's about both. We all have our opinions and what better place to discuss them than DBR. :cool:GoDuke!

[Kedsy]

Jacki Silar may have a different point of view.

Possibly, though I'm not sure what jurisdiction she has over Coach P's husband.

In this particular case, we only know about this because jtelander is one of John McCallie's 22 followers. Far as I can tell, nobody retweeted it or anything. Coincidentally (or not), jtelander is also the person who posted the gif of the so-called "fly by." I don't know what (if any) agendas are working here, but to me it seems like an "issue" manufactured for a message board.

[jtelander]

Local network TV sports guy yesterday

Sherrell D. McMillan ‏@rellevent21 20h
Can we talk about this?

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B.J. Steven Dunbarrebekah escalaKerwin Pellas (23-7)Jake FehlingTonya Mason
11:15 AM - 3 Mar 2014 · Details
Mark Armstrong ‏@ArmstrongABC11 19h
McCallie strikes me as someone who carries around a slew of grudges “@rellevent21: Can we talk about this?

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Sherrell D. McMillan ‏@rellevent21 19h
@ArmstrongABC11 unfortunate. Coaches, all coaches, should be above that when it comes to players. I'm fine if it's coach-to-coach beef.
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Mark Armstrong ‏@ArmstrongABC11 19h
@rellevent21 yeah - bizarre - would be curious to know the motivation, but still, not a good look.
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michelle hillison ‏@mdhillison 19h
@ArmstrongABC11 @rellevent21 What was most strange is everyone else was more than polite - several hugs, extra pats, etc.
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Mark Armstrong ‏@ArmstrongABC11 18h
@mdhillison @rellevent21 yeah, silliness gets magnified when it's a coach
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1:49 PM - 3 Mar 2014 · Details

[Mike Corey]

Here's hoping Coach McCallie learns from her mistake.

Either way, and with respect, whether or not the action has created a fuss as identified by a search on Google is not the measure of its rightness or wrongness, in my opinion; what our coaches do when no one is looking matters just as much, if not more. And when our coaches are being a bad sport--on the court or off; in a press conference or on Twitter--it's not acceptable.

It's not a severe offense, of course. If it's the worst thing a Duke coach does, then we're awfully lucky. But it's not acceptable nevertheless: We'd expect more from our opponents, we'd expect more from our student-athletes, and we'd certainly expect more from our coaches.

[DU82]

Also, I didn't really think it was about his plumber. And if you didn't know that, it's way past "absurd."

I will say, though, that I don't think the "women's basketball community" is abuzz with any "flyby" or anything else related to Duke/UNC. I googled it and nothing came up, and there's nothing on ESPN.com. I'm not sure where else the women's basketball community might be buzzing, but if you want to tell me, I'll be happy to check it out.

Until you do, I'll continue to think it's nowhere but Duke and UNC message boards, a pretend issue manufactured by people who don't like Coach P.

I found discussions on the UConn, UT and a general board. That's a quick search, and those represent a big part of the women's basketball world. That's just from Sunday's passby. Other games generated other tweets and other comments. (The first game against ND, UConn.)

Yep, it's a pretend issue. Sure. Why don't you get away from the stats and actually watch a game live and see what others see. How many women's games have you been to?

I was a defender of Coach P until this year. But they're way too much going on off the court (we've already disussed the on-court issues) for me to continue doing that. The tweets are just one part of it.

[Mike Corey]

Why don't you get away from the stats and actually watch a game live and see what others see. How many women's games have you been to?

You will be hard-pressed to find better supporters of Duke women's basketball than Kedsy.

Either way, no one need attend games to have an informed, reasonable opinion as Kedsy does on our women's basketball coach.

[MCFinARL]

Here's hoping Coach McCallie learns from her mistake.

Either way, and with respect, whether or not the action has created a fuss as identified by a search on Google is not the measure of its rightness or wrongness, in my opinion; what our coaches do when no one is looking matters just as much, if not more. And when our coaches are being a bad sport--on the court or off; in a press conference or on Twitter--it's not acceptable.

It's not a severe offense, of course. If it's the worst thing a Duke coach does, then we're awfully lucky. But it's not acceptable nevertheless: We'd expect more from our opponents, we'd expect more from our student-athletes, and we'd certainly expect more from our coaches.

I agree with you here--regardless of anything else one thinks about Coach P, this was a mistake, and one I hope will be acknowledged and will not be repeated.

On the other hand, getting riled up about opaque tweets from Coach P's husband is going too far. I don't know if Coach K's wife is on Twitter, but it's hard for me to imagine folks here poring over her tweets and judging Coach K based on what they found. Coach P deserves to be evaluated on her own merits, about which reasonable people can disagree, rather than on her husband's remarks.

[Kedsy]

I agree with you here--regardless of anything else one thinks about Coach P, this was a mistake, and one I hope will be acknowledged and will not be repeated.

On the other hand, getting riled up about opaque tweets from Coach P's husband is going too far. I don't know if Coach K's wife is on Twitter, but it's hard for me to imagine folks here poring over her tweets and judging Coach K based on what they found. Coach P deserves to be evaluated on her own merits, about which reasonable people can disagree, rather than on her husband's remarks.

I agree with every word in this post.

I totally get that people would prefer Coach P show sportsmanship after a tough loss. What I don't get is the people who constantly spout vitriol and who sputter with ostensible outrage that sounds more like barely concealed glee every time Coach P hiccups.

And I also don't get why the husband's tweet has been discussed here at all.

[cf-62]

I agree with every word in this post.

I totally get that people would prefer Coach P show sportsmanship after a tough loss. What I don't get is the people who constantly spout vitriol and who sputter with ostensible outrage that sounds more like barely concealed glee every time Coach P hiccups.

And I also don't get why the husband's tweet has been discussed here at all.

Coach P came into a tough situation, and in my mind has mostly gotten through it to good levels of success.

I personally don't like how the team seems to dumb themselves down when they play great teams, but in women's basketball, that's not exactly rare.

She sits near us for football games. We've met her parents and husband. They are all quite nice, and big fans.

But make no doubt about it - this is terrible sportsmanship - period. I expect more than just a "tweet" talking about self-reflection from a Div I college coach.

[johnb]

When I watch the film clip and hear rumblings of poor sportsmanship, I can't help but wonder about her role at Duke. A vague reference to self examination does not mean she has learned anything. She doesn't owe me an apology, but if I'm the Duke AD or the Duke President, I'd be putting her under the microscope. And yes, her husband slides alongside her in that scrutiny given his own history, especially when he is tweeting that 18 year old opponents are evil.

If she'd like to get schooled on sportsmanship, have her watch the clips of Coach K having short post-game conversations with the stars on the other team, regardless of whether that star just cut out our hearts (or faked out the refs to foul out our star players). Sure, it's perhaps easier to do that when you're a CEO/World Ambassador, so perhaps she could instead just watch clips of Dankowski when we play lacrosse. She didn't do anything illegal, but, if that behavior reflects a pattern, she may need a breather from coaching--regardless of whether we get past the elite 8.

[AIM4excellence]

When I watch the film clip and hear rumblings of poor sportsmanship, I can't help but wonder about her role at Duke. A vague reference to self examination does not mean she has learned anything. She doesn't owe me an apology, but if I'm the Duke AD or the Duke President, I'd be putting her under the microscope. And yes, her husband slides alongside her in that scrutiny given his own history, especially when he is tweeting that 18 year old opponents are evil.

If she'd like to get schooled on sportsmanship, have her watch the clips of Coach K having short post-game conversations with the stars on the other team, regardless of whether that star just cut out our hearts (or faked out the refs to foul out our star players). Sure, it's perhaps easier to do that when you're a CEO/World Ambassador, so perhaps she could instead just watch clips of Dankowski when we play lacrosse. She didn't do anything illegal, but, if that behavior reflects a pattern, she may need a breather from coaching--regardless of whether we get past the elite 8.

I agree with this. If you put together Mr. McCallie referring to an opposing player as "evil" with Coach McCallie refusing to shake her hand, and McCallie's habit of referring to opposing players as numbers rather than names, you've got a duo with "issues" related to sportsmanship and perspective. McCallie (& her husband) are supposed to be role models - Mr. McCallie routinely roams through the parent section at games to "meet and greet" player families. Most player parents expect their daughters to continue learning how to represent themselves and their school well at competitions. This is the exact opposite.

[OZ]

If she'd like to get schooled on sportsmanship, have her watch the clips of Coach K having short post-game conversations with the stars on the other team, regardless of whether that star just cut out our hearts (or faked out the refs to foul out our star players.

Or you could replay for her, Coach K's infamous locker room speech with the "Chronicle" staff.
I have been around this board a long time and I would have never guessed that someday, we would be in a froth, over a TWEET, from the SPOUSE of a coach.

[DrChainsaw]

Or you could replay for her, Coach K's infamous locker room speech with the "Chronicle" staff.
I have been around this board a long time and I would have never guessed that someday, we would be in a froth, over a TWEET, from the SPOUSE of a coach.

We need to be fair. There was a long discussion and associated character judgment of an opposing coach for a perceived WEAK handshake with K. If that coach had instead totally snubbed K or a Duke player and his wife followed up with a similar tweet, they'd be bar-b-q meat by now.

[Kedsy]

We need to be fair. There was a long discussion and associated character judgment of an opposing coach for a perceived WEAK handshake with K. If that coach had instead totally snubbed K or a Duke player and his wife followed up with a similar tweet, they'd be bar-b-q meat by now.

On the other hand, I personally felt that conversation about Dixon was ridiculous. While I agree in the abstract that good sportsmanship is desirable, I honestly don't care who shakes hands with whom.

[Des Esseintes]

On the other hand, I personally felt that conversation about Dixon was ridiculous. While I agree in the abstract that good sportsmanship is desirable, I honestly don't care who shakes hands with whom.

I generally agree with this, although I do wish McCallie had behaved differently in this case. She's an excellent, not-as-good-as-K-or-Danowski-or-Geno coach, and this was a self-inflicted wound. Though it makes no difference in whether I think she is the right coach for Duke women's hoops--I absolutely think she is--she has unnecessarily opened herself up to criticism. More fuel for people who were already disinclined to give her a fair shake.

[jv001]

On the other hand, I personally felt that conversation about Dixon was ridiculous. While I agree in the abstract that good sportsmanship is desirable, I honestly don't care who shakes hands with whom.

I don't put too much emphasis on a weak handshake or even a brush off. But I think that with some of the anti-Duke material that basketball recruits hear is a big thing. For years, it's Duke doesn't develop big men and then it was Coach K is coaching the USA team. He won't be there for you. Well Duke and Coach K put those two lies to bed, but it was out there anyway. I don't want Duke or Coach K or Coach P getting negative publicity. That's all I'm going to say on this matter. GoDuke!

[Des Esseintes]

I don't put too much emphasis on a weak handshake or even a brush off. But I think that with some of the anti-Duke material that basketball recruits hear is a big thing. For years, it's Duke doesn't develop big men and then it was Coach K is coaching the USA team. He won't be there for you. Well Duke and Coach K put those two lies to bed, but it was out there anyway. I don't want Duke or Coach K or Coach P getting negative publicity. That's all I'm going to say on this matter. GoDuke!

I hear you, jv, but this is women's college hoops. The sport is dominated by coaches who have been known to lead with an elbow. I doubt negative recruiting on the subject of sportsmanship will be coming from Storrs, South Bend, or Chapel Hill.

[jv001]

I hear you, jv, but this is women's college hoops. The sport is dominated by coaches who have been known to lead with an elbow. I doubt negative recruiting on the subject of sportsmanship will be coming from Storrs, South Bend, or Chapel Hill.

On this, I totally agree. GoDuke!

[Kedsy]

I generally agree with this, although I do wish McCallie had behaved differently in this case. She's an excellent, not-as-good-as-K-or-Danowski-or-Geno coach, and this was a self-inflicted wound. Though it makes no difference in whether I think she is the right coach for Duke women's hoops--I absolutely think she is--she has unnecessarily opened herself up to criticism. More fuel for people who were already disinclined to give her a fair shake.

I agree with everything you say. I also wish she had behaved differently, though obviously none of us know the whole story (if there is indeed a "whole story" to know). My point (which it sounds like you agree with) was that whether or not I/we wish she had behaved differently, in the end it's not that big a deal, certainly not as big a deal as some on this board have tried to make it.

[OZ]

If that coach had instead totally snubbed K or a Duke player and his wife followed up with a similar tweet, they'd be bar-b-q meat by now.

Oh, I get it. You mean like when Johnny D refused to shake hands with Doherty in the ACC Tourney? I don't recall him being "bar-b-qued." In fact, there were those - I among them - who thought highly of J. D.'s snub.

[Duvall]

Oh, I get it. You mean like when Johnny D refused to shake hands with Doherty in the ACC Tourney? I don't recall him being "bar-b-qued." In fact, there were those - I among them - who thought highly of J. D.'s snub.

I imagine it helped that Doherty was canned a few days later, in part for treating everyone around him horribly.

[-bdbd]

twitter.com/nosoc/status/440655666349625344
https://twitter.com/nosoc/status/440655666349625344

John McCallie: "Sometimes you have to meet evil head on - but other times it maycall for a flyby #abovethefray"


Regarding that interesting Tweet from Coach P's spouse.... Already getting plenty of nasty responses from NC fans.

I did not see the DWBB vs NC game, but was Deshields involved in any sorts of dirty plays with Duke players? Apparently P gave Deshields a "flyby" on the post-game handshakes. Anybody know why? Wondering if there was some ugliness, akin to the Chris Paul ball-buster moves of tean years ago... :confused:

[uh_no]

twitter.com/nosoc/status/440655666349625344
https://twitter.com/nosoc/status/440655666349625344

John McCallie: "Sometimes you have to meet evil head on - but other times it maycall for a flyby #abovethefray"


Regarding that interesting Tweet from Coach P's spouse.... Already getting plenty of nasty responses from NC fans.

I did not see the DWBB vs NC game, but was Deshields involved in any sorts of dirty plays with Duke players? Apparently P gave Deshields a "flyby" on the post-game handshakes. Anybody know why? Wondering if there was some ugliness, akin to the Chris Paul ball-buster moves of tean years ago... :confused:

depends on if you ask kedsy or AIM4Excellence :)

[Des Esseintes]

depends on if you ask kedsy or AIM4Excellence :)

Kedsy didn't claim to know what either P or husband-of-P was intending with their tweets.

[DrChainsaw]

Oh, I get it. You mean like when Johnny D refused to shake hands with Doherty in the ACC Tourney? I don't recall him being "bar-b-qued." In fact, there were those - I among them - who thought highly of J. D.'s snub.

Thanks for restating my point with a illustrative example. :)

[AIM4excellence]

twitter.com/nosoc/status/440655666349625344
https://twitter.com/nosoc/status/440655666349625344

John McCallie: "Sometimes you have to meet evil head on - but other times it maycall for a flyby #abovethefray"


Regarding that interesting Tweet from Coach P's spouse.... Already getting plenty of nasty responses from NC fans.

I did not see the DWBB vs NC game, but was Deshields involved in any sorts of dirty plays with Duke players? Apparently P gave Deshields a "flyby" on the post-game handshakes. Anybody know why? Wondering if there was some ugliness, akin to the Chris Paul ball-buster moves of tean years ago... :confused:

I did not see anything in the game that was dirty and I haven't heard anybody say they saw anything. Two things I know that have led people to say DeShields might be "a little full of herself": 1) the photo of DeShields yawning while bringing the ball in at Duke and 2) a quote after the NC State game in which she said "it's got to hurt the seniors to get beat by mere freshmen." IMHO, neither action warranted a response like this. I'm quite sure it was a motivator to the players and they wanted to beat her team like a drum and then say something witty about it.

[OZ]

Thanks for restating my point with a illustrative example. :)

You are most welcome. I was afraid that you might have missed it.

[OZ]

I imagine it helped that Doherty was canned a few days later, in part for treating everyone around him horribly.


So, an unsportsmanlike immature snub can be justified?

[Duvall]

So, an unsportsmanlike immature snub can be justified?

If someone has an otherwise spotless reputation, yes. Otherwise...

[sagegrouse]

Oh, I get it. You mean like when Johnny D refused to shake hands with Doherty in the ACC Tourney? I don't recall him being "bar-b-qued." In fact, there were those - I among them - who thought highly of J. D.'s snub.

It was not an issue because, by that time, no one at UNC would shake Doherty's hand either

[AIM4excellence]

It was not an issue because, by that time, no one at UNC would shake Doherty's hand either

All of you who think the "fly by" was no big deal, please suspend your beliefs for a moment...imagine if Coach K had engaged in the behavior that Coach McCallie has. An Asst Coach is no longer on the roster, you hear they are gone by an announcement of the Asst Coach's new job by the new program, Coach K sends out tweets insinuating that the Asst Coach is just immature or downright unethical, Coach K doesn't shake the hand of a young star player whose team has just defeated Duke in a hard fought game, Coach K sends out a tweet about saying he's had to apologize many times that day for things that aren't his fault. (it's possible you haven't seen this tweet of McCallie's yet)

I'm not kidding here. Try to imagine this scenario. If you can't imagine it, then why can't you? Is it about what you know about what K would - or would never - do? Do you appreciate that Coach K is not only a dynamite coach, but also conducts himself properly in public?

We are not talking about an 18 yr old stud player snubbing a player on the other team. This is the coach. Snubbing an 18 yr old stud player. And the spouse of the coach implying the stud player is "evil" and insinuating they are not worthy of normal sportsmanlike behavior.

If Coach K ever did these things, you can bet your bottom dollar the video would be on SportsCenter and he would have issued a highly public and very humble apology. Deep down you know this is true.

And, by the way, the WBB journalists have started having a field day with the "fly by".

[OZ]

It was not an issue because, by that time, no one at UNC would shake Doherty's hand either


So, it seems it is as "uh_no" suggested... whether or not a snub and/or a text is unsportsmanlike is according to whom you ask.

[sagegrouse]

All of you who think the "fly by" was no big deal, please suspend your beliefs for a moment...imagine if Coach K had engaged in the behavior that Coach McCallie has. An Asst Coach is no longer on the roster, you hear they are gone by an announcement of the Asst Coach's new job by the new program, Coach K sends out tweets insinuating that the Asst Coach is just immature or downright unethical, Coach K doesn't shake the hand of a young star player whose team has just defeated Duke in a hard fought game, Coach K sends out a tweet about saying he's had to apologize many times that day for things that aren't his fault. (it's possible you haven't seen this tweet of McCallie's yet)

I'm not kidding here. Try to imagine this scenario. If you can't imagine it, then why can't you? Is it about what you know about what K would - or would never - do? Do you appreciate that Coach K is not only a dynamite coach, but also conducts himself properly in public?

We are not talking about an 18 yr old stud player snubbing a player on the other team. This is the coach. Snubbing an 18 yr old stud player. And the spouse of the coach implying the stud player is "evil" and insinuating they are not worthy of normal sportsmanlike behavior.

If Coach K ever did these things, you can bet your bottom dollar the video would be on SportsCenter and he would have issued a highly public and very humble apology. Deep down you know this is true.

And, by the way, the WBB journalists have started having a field day with the "fly by".

I tend to assume it was a thoughtless act after an emotional loss. But, why are we being lectured to? As in: "If you can't imagine it, then why can't you?" Let's see... We are supposed to take seriously anything you say after such an insult. Why don't you give it a rest?

[Des Esseintes]

All of you who think the "fly by" was no big deal, please suspend your beliefs for a moment...imagine if Coach K had engaged in the behavior that Coach McCallie has. An Asst Coach is no longer on the roster, you hear they are gone by an announcement of the Asst Coach's new job by the new program, Coach K sends out tweets insinuating that the Asst Coach is just immature or downright unethical, Coach K doesn't shake the hand of a young star player whose team has just defeated Duke in a hard fought game, Coach K sends out a tweet about saying he's had to apologize many times that day for things that aren't his fault. (it's possible you haven't seen this tweet of McCallie's yet)

I'm not kidding here. Try to imagine this scenario. If you can't imagine it, then why can't you? Is it about what you know about what K would - or would never - do? Do you appreciate that Coach K is not only a dynamite coach, but also conducts himself properly in public?

We are not talking about an 18 yr old stud player snubbing a player on the other team. This is the coach. Snubbing an 18 yr old stud player. And the spouse of the coach implying the stud player is "evil" and insinuating they are not worthy of normal sportsmanlike behavior.

If Coach K ever did these things, you can bet your bottom dollar the video would be on SportsCenter and he would have issued a highly public and very humble apology. Deep down you know this is true.

And, by the way, the WBB journalists have started having a field day with the "fly by".

Let's play "Tear Down A Duke Coach"! Because that's obviously what a Duke message board is for. Not support! Calumny!

All of you who think the "fly by" [of Mike Brey] was no big deal, please suspend your beliefs for a moment...imagine if Coach [Izzo] had engaged in the behavior that Coach [Krzyzewski] has. An Asst Coach is [the only one who ever talks to the halftime journalist], you hear [he is so verbally abusive in practice that players cry in their dorms and sometimes transfer to a] new program, Coach K [hauls in the editorial staff of the Chronicle, mere students, and f-bombs them mercilessly] insinuating that the [newspaper "degrades my basketball team"], Coach [Izzo] doesn't shake the hand of a [a long-time former assistant] whose team has just defeated Duke in a hard fought game, Coach [Williams abuses a foreign journalist during the Olympics by glaring at him and saying "Maybe in your language playing hard means showing off."]

I'm not kidding here. Try to imagine this scenario. If you can't imagine it, then why can't you? Is it about what you know about what [Tom Izzo] would - or would never - do? Do you appreciate that Coach [Izzo] is not only a dynamite coach, but also conducts himself properly in public?

We are not talking about an 18 yr old stud player [abusing student reporters]. This is the coach. [Intimidating an] 18 yr old [sports reporter]. And the [best apology that could be gotten out of him was to claim that the meeting was "misconstrued" and "I've got to be clearer."]

If Coach [Izzo] ever did these things, you can bet your bottom dollar the video would be on SportsCenter and he would have issued a highly public and very humble apology. Deep down you know this is true.

And, by the way, the [college basketball] journalists have started having a field day with the "fly by".


Yeah, it's totally meaningful (http://deadspin.com/5893113/coach-k-is-a-dick) when national journalists criticize a Duke coach. Can we please stop this? You can hatchet job anyone in the public sphere, even someone with as much integrity and career-long excellence as K. Doesn't make the negative cherrypicking meaningful.

[aswewere]

All of you who think the "fly by" was no big deal, please suspend your beliefs for a moment...imagine if Coach K had engaged in the behavior that Coach McCallie has. An Asst Coach is no longer on the roster, you hear they are gone by an announcement of the Asst Coach's new job by the new program, Coach K sends out tweets insinuating that the Asst Coach is just immature or downright unethical, Coach K doesn't shake the hand of a young star player whose team has just defeated Duke in a hard fought game, Coach K sends out a tweet about saying he's had to apologize many times that day for things that aren't his fault. (it's possible you haven't seen this tweet of McCallie's yet)

I'm not kidding here. Try to imagine this scenario. If you can't imagine it, then why can't you? Is it about what you know about what K would - or would never - do? Do you appreciate that Coach K is not only a dynamite coach, but also conducts himself properly in public?

We are not talking about an 18 yr old stud player snubbing a player on the other team. This is the coach. Snubbing an 18 yr old stud player. And the spouse of the coach implying the stud player is "evil" and insinuating they are not worthy of normal sportsmanlike behavior.

If Coach K ever did these things, you can bet your bottom dollar the video would be on SportsCenter and he would have issued a highly public and very humble apology. Deep down you know this is true.

And, by the way, the WBB journalists have started having a field day with the "fly by".

Most of the fans around me in sec. 15 are more concerned about our offense or lack of it, against elite teams.
It has been given a name [big 10 tractor offense ] power /no finesse and would love to see us bring in a good a
good offensive assistant.

[burnspbesq]

Can we put all this foolishness on hold for three weeks (or more if we get weeks four and five) and just root unconditionally for a team that deserves our unconditional support?

[killerleft]

Can we put all this foolishness on hold for three weeks (or more if we get weeks four and five) and just root unconditionally for a team that deserves our unconditional support?

Amen to that. I think the effort has been great all year and the Blue Devils need all the support we can muster. Go Duke!

[aswewere]

Amen to that. I think the effort has been great all year and the Blue Devils need all the support we can muster. Go Duke!

There was nothing foolish about the way our team has been handled to most
of our fans and it was about to slide off the page until you starting batting again.

[burnspbesq]

Apparently the answer to my question is "no."

[-jk]

Easy, folks...

-jk