Rodney Hood - Moving up the draft boards

[FerryFor50]

CNNSI's latest has him as the #8 guy:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140227/nba-draft-big-board-andrew-wiggins-jabari-parker/?eref=sihp

PJ Hairston* (*Texas Legends) is at #16.

Hope no one tells Rodney!

[Atlanta Duke]

CNNSI's latest has him as the #8 guy:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140227/nba-draft-big-board-andrew-wiggins-jabari-parker/?eref=sihp

PJ Hairston* (*Texas Legends) is at #16.

Hope no one tells Rodney!

No surprise the criticism of both Jabari Parker (#2) and Rodney Hood (#8) is defensive skills

Looks like Duke will not need to worry about dealing with Tyler Ennis (#7) after this season

[superdave]

Chad Ford has Hood in the 12-13 range for now. Seems like Hood and Gary Harris could be matched up in workouts for the 2-guard, mid-lottery spot.

[vick]

it's still unclear whether Hood can be a traditional small forward or a Thaddeus Young-type power forward. If he can establish himself as a small forward, Hood could have an immediate impact.

Gosh, NBA executives must be pretty dim if they can't see the value of making sure Hood plays his "natural position" at shooting guard.

[JasonEvans]

Just in case people forget, though we have only had Rodney on the court for us for one season, this is his third season in college. The fact that he is eager and ready to go to the pros should come as no surprise to anyone and I think hoping he will stick around would be really selfish on our part. For a player of his quality, even waiting three years seems much longer than usual.

That's why I think he is even more likely to turn pro than kids like Parker, Embiid, and others who are younger but projected higher up in the lottery than Rodney is.

-Jason "if Hood really only cared about going pro, he could have stayed at MSU as a soph and likely been at least a mid-first rounder a year ago" Evans

[Troublemaker]

Gosh, NBA executives must be pretty dim if they can't see the value of making sure Hood plays his "natural position" at shooting guard.

Seriously. He definitely has all the skills to play there. And by making him a 2-guard, you make him a lengthy player at his position instead of a non-lengthy SF. Rodney should only be playing the 2 at the next level.

[vick]

Seriously. He definitely has all the skills to play there. And by making him a 2-guard, you make him a lengthy player at his position instead of a non-lengthy SF. Rodney should only be playing the 2 at the next level.

Haha, it's a little awkward when someone agrees with your statement intended to be sarcastic, but for what it's worth, I agree with you that he's significantly more likely to play SG than PF, "Thaddeus Young-type" or not, in the NBA. I just think it's odd how focused some fans sometimes get on these positional distinctions at a time the NBA is drifting away from rigid positions.

[FerryFor50]

Just in case people forget, though we have only had Rodney on the court for us for one season, this is his third season in college. The fact that he is eager and ready to go to the pros should come as no surprise to anyone and I think hoping he will stick around would be really selfish on our part. For a player of his quality, even waiting three years seems much longer than usual.

That's why I think he is even more likely to turn pro than kids like Parker, Embiid, and others who are younger but projected higher up in the lottery than Rodney is.

-Jason "if Hood really only cared about going pro, he could have stayed at MSU as a soph and likely been at least a mid-first rounder a year ago" Evans

Oh, no doubt. No one would begrudge him for leaving, and it would be no shock if/when he does go pro. And yes, I *am* being selfish that I want him to stay. :-P

[FerryFor50]

Haha, it's a little awkward when someone agrees with your statement intended to be sarcastic, but for what it's worth, I agree with you that he's significantly more likely to play SG than PF, "Thaddeus Young-type" or not, in the NBA. I just think it's odd how focused some fans sometimes get on these positional distinctions at a time the NBA is drifting away from rigid positions.

I've stated this before, but I see a lot of Rip Hamilton in Hood. Slender, tall, great mid-range game.

[79-77]

If Hood turns pro and gets drafted that high, I'll certainly be happy for him and wish him well, but I can't shake a bit of skepticism I have about his NBA prospects at this point. I think he needs another year at Duke to get stronger physically and to show (both to himself and to NBA scouts) that he can take over games against high-end competition. I see a real risk that he becomes JAG in the NBA next year and ends up not sticking within a year or 2 after that.

I hope I'm wrong though because the most likely outcome does seem to be that he turns pro after this year.

[UrinalCake]

I could see him playing the 3 if he could gain some strength. It would let him use his versatility, and he wouldn't get stuck guarding the quick combo guards who are at the 2.

8 seems a bit high, he would definitely benefit from another year to fill out his game and probably be top-5 next year, but it'd also be hard to blame him for leaving.

[dukelifer]

Just in case people forget, though we have only had Rodney on the court for us for one season, this is his third season in college. The fact that he is eager and ready to go to the pros should come as no surprise to anyone and I think hoping he will stick around would be really selfish on our part. For a player of his quality, even waiting three years seems much longer than usual.

That's why I think he is even more likely to turn pro than kids like Parker, Embiid, and others who are younger but projected higher up in the lottery than Rodney is.

-Jason "if Hood really only cared about going pro, he could have stayed at MSU as a soph and likely been at least a mid-first rounder a year ago" Evans

I actually think Rodney is "more" NBA ready that Jabari. Hood has shown the ability to be an elite and consistent shooter. That is valued in the NBA. He needs to get stronger and his D is okay- but will likely get better. But the guy can shoot- has a beautiful, natural stroke. Jabari will be a good pro one day- but he is not an elite shooter- despite the early success. Perhaps he can become one with hard work. He also needs to develop his ball handling around the hoop and his D is below average. He needs one more year or so to tune his game. The big question is where to do it. I fear that he like other top picks will have much put on them to turn a franchise around. He is not ready- nor is Wiggins or Gordon. Perhaps of all the kids- he might be best prepared to handle the expectations- but it is still a Man's league. Leadership, mental toughness, and work ethic are essential to becoming "the man" in the NBA. Jerry West also does not see the can-not-miss superstar in this class- certainly not a Lebron or even a Carmello. The great players have some unique or elite ability. Jabari is not 6' 11"" (Howard) - he is not an elite shooter (Durant, Mello), an elite ball handler ( Kyrie) or an explosive driver (Kobe, Lebron). He is a solid, smart player with a lot of natural skill and already in the top 10% of college players- but maybe only an average NBA skillset at this point. He will have a long career and could become a star with hard work. But it is not going to be next year. The big question is where does he develop best as a player and a possible leader. Tough call as most will tell him to go pro. I think he would benefit from one more year at Duke.

[UrinalCake]

I've stated this before, but I see a lot of Rip Hamilton in Hood. Slender, tall, great mid-range game.

Good comp, with the only difference being that I don't hate him for ripping my heart out and stomping it to pieces in 1999.

[mgtr]

I've stated this before, but I see a lot of Rip Hamilton in Hood. Slender, tall, great mid-range game.

That is quite a tribute to young Mr. Hood. I would really like to see him succeed at the next level.

[InSpades]

I don't get the love for Ennis. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's got this hype and will likely only spend 1 year at Syracuse but... his #s are pretty comparable to Paige and not that much better than Quinn Cook. 12 pts, 5.5 assists, not a particularly good shooter.

Also not surprised to see Rodney climbing the boards. I looked a few weeks ago and he was below James Young from Kentucky. They are very similar players only Rodney is just a much better shooter and more efficient player. I'd be surprised if Rodney came back...

The one caveat... if Duke doesn't win it all this year, the idea of coming back next year to do something truly special has to factor in somewhere. Probably not enough to bring Jabari or Rodney back... but maybe.

[dukebluesincebirth]

When I think of Rodney in the NBA, I think of Stacey Augmon and Tayshaun Prince. Long, athletic, productive shooters. Not much upper body strength.

[UrinalCake]

Just in case people forget, though we have only had Rodney on the court for us for one season, this is his third season in college. The fact that he is eager and ready to go to the pros should come as no surprise to anyone and I think hoping he will stick around would be really selfish on our part. For a player of his quality, even waiting three years seems much longer than usual.

The flip side to that is that he's really close to graduating. Depending on his important that is to him, he could be pushed to staying in order to get his degree. Parker and Embiid aren't going to get that far (unless they come back later) so it's not really a factor.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Just in case people forget, though we have only had Rodney on the court for us for one season, this is his third season in college. The fact that he is eager and ready to go to the pros should come as no surprise to anyone and I think hoping he will stick around would be really selfish on our part. For a player of his quality, even waiting three years seems much longer than usual.

That's why I think he is even more likely to turn pro than kids like Parker, Embiid, and others who are younger but projected higher up in the lottery than Rodney is.

-Jason "if Hood really only cared about going pro, he could have stayed at MSU as a soph and likely been at least a mid-first rounder a year ago" Evans

Not sure how true the bolded statement it, although I agree with your conclusion. Rodney was All Freshman SEC a few years back, but his numbers were slightly underwhelming: 10.3ppg, 4.8 rpg, 36% 3pt FG, 44% FG.

He was good, but given how his team didn't have a superstar (unlike Jabari this year) I thought Rodney would establish himself more. Rather, Rodney made the smart move and transferred. In the process, he's made himself millions. And it came with the right coach in the right system.

My take on Rodney in the pros: he's gonna be a really good offensive 2. He has a beautiful jump shot and can take it to the rim. For his size, he's a subpar rebounder and a mediocre defender. I hope he focuses on these two skills in his firsts year during the pros.

Another point of contention: SI said that Rodney is a tweener (SF/PF). That is laughable. If anything, Rodney is a tweener between SG/SF. In the pros, if Rodney played a minute of PF, he would get crushed. NBA GMs - please don't draft Rodney as a PF or even an SF; he's a clear SG in my mind.

[JasonEvans]

If Hood turns pro and gets drafted that high, I'll certainly be happy for him and wish him well, but I can't shake a bit of skepticism I have about his NBA prospects at this point. I think he needs another year at Duke to get stronger physically and to show (both to himself and to NBA scouts) that he can take over games against high-end competition. I see a real risk that he becomes JAG in the NBA next year and ends up not sticking within a year or 2 after that.

I dunno. I think scouts have seen Rodney excel against top flight competition an awful lot this year. He had 21 against Arizona and his stats in ACC-only games (playing against lots of future pros) are quite impressive -- 15.5 ppg, 44.2% FGs, 44% 3FGs, 2.5 3FGs made per game. There is a reason the NBA is projecting him as a certain lottery pick in what appears to be a very strong draft, because NBA execs are fairly sure that Rodney will be an impact player at the next level.

And the notion that -- after three years of playing college ball and at the age of 21 (he'll be 22 in October) -- Rodney needs to spend another year in college to get stronger just does not jive with my observations or knowledge of the usual progression of basketball skills. By the age of 21-22, the NBA has a very good idea of what you can handle physically. I really doubt that another year at Duke would answer some lingering questions about Rodney...

...though I certainly would not mind if he decided to stay! Ha!\


When I think of Rodney in the NBA, I think of Stacey Augmon and Tayshaun Prince. Long, athletic, productive shooters. Not much upper body strength.

Not really feeling these comparisons. Augmon and Prince had freakishly long arms. Prince was 6-9 with a 7-2 wingspan. I can't find his exact wingspan but Augmon was known as "Plastic Man" for his ability to stretch his arms into passing lanes and disrupting offenses. Augmon was drafted and succeeded in the NBA almost exclusively on his stellar defensive abilities. Augmon was fine taking the ball to the hoop and scored a bit that way, but wasn't nearly the shooter and scorer that Hood is. For proof, I offer up Augmon's career 3FG%... 15.2%. Ouch!

Hood is 6-8 and has a 6-8 wingspan. In fact, some cite his length as something that may hold him back a little bit at the next level. Certainly, defense is one of the significant concerns with his game from the NBA's standpoint. With Prince and especially Augmon, the exact opposite would be true.

The aforementioned Rip Hamilton is a good comp for Hood, though I think Rip was a bit better at getting his shot off and at pulling up in traffic. I could see Rudy Gay as another nice comparison, though Gay seems more willing to mix it up inside and is a better rebounder. I hate that I keep coming back with UConn comparisons so what about Joe Johnson? I am not saying Hood would turn into a scorer like Johnson, but Joe came into the NBA and scored less than 10 ppg his first couple years before breaking out in Phoenix and then Atlanta. I think the way Joe gets points off the dribble not with explosiveness but with craftiness are not dissimilar to what I see Rodney do a lot of the time at Duke this year.

-Jason "Rodney's NBA future is strong and his ceiling is high" Evans

[Eakane]

"Just in case people forget, though we have only had Rodney on the court for us for one season, this is his third season in college. The fact that he is eager and ready to go to the pros should come as no surprise to anyone and I think hoping he will stick around would be really selfish on our part. For a player of his quality, even waiting three years seems much longer than usual.

That's why I think he is even more likely to turn pro than kids like Parker, Embiid, and others who are younger but projected higher up in the lottery than Rodney is.

-Jason "if Hood really only cared about going pro, he could have stayed at MSU as a soph and likely been at least a mid-first rounder a year ago" Evans"

Jason, you contradict yourself -- saying he's "even more likely to turn pro..." and then if he only really cared about turning pro, he could have stayed at MSU.

I think the 2nd point is right, and why us fans can hold out at least a slim hope that he'll stay. Why waste a year sitting if his intention was to turn pro? Of course, sitting on the Duke bench and practicing with the team is not a waste, but if the goal was just to get to the NBA as fast as possible, then it seems a strange road to take.

Parker and Hood both have reasons why they might want to stay (graduating, winning a(nother) championship, working on D, beefing up, enjoying campus life), and why they might want to go (instant millionaires), and some of what will get factored in is what happens in the next 5 weeks. Whatever they decide, I hope we'll all support them. I don't think its selfish to hope they stay, just as I'd hope we'd be gracious if they decide to go.

I always think about what Trajan said when he and Brand were being interviewed about leaving early. Langdon said that the NBA will always be there, so what's the rush (or words to that effect).

[UrinalCake]

Interesting that his 2-point shooting percentage is so low; wonder if that will raise a concern with the NBA having a longer three point line? If NBA teams view him as being over-reliant on the three and not a good mid-range or inside scorer, then that could be a big negative.

[CarmenWallaceWade]

Oh, no doubt. No one would begrudge him for leaving, and it would be no shock if/when he does go pro. And yes, I *am* being selfish that I want him to stay. :-P

Color me selfish, too. If he or Jabari sticks around.. would there be another team next year holding as much talent and potential as ours?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Color me selfish, too. If he or Jabari sticks around.. would there be another team next year holding as much talent and potential as ours?

You talking for next year or in the last decade? Cus the answer would probably be 'No' to either.

The starting five would be:

1: Tyus/Cook
2: Sulaimon
3: Hood
4: Parker
5: The Oak

That means 1 of Tyus/Cook and Amile would be guaranteed not to start. Neither would M. Jones, Semi O, MP3, Grayson, or Winslow. That would be a disgusting (in a good way).

Hell, I could be the 6th man and we'd still be ranked #1 the whole year.

[moonpie23]

Rip Hamilton

could you bum me out a little more? my day hasn't been crappy enough with this hard drive going down.....now you gotta mention that name?


thanks....

[TexHawk]

You talking for next year or in the last decade? Cus the answer would probably be 'No' to either.

The starting five would be:

1: Tyus/Cook
2: Sulaimon
3: Hood
4: Parker
5: The Oak

That means 1 of Tyus/Cook and Amile would be guaranteed not to start. Neither would M. Jones, Semi O, MP3, Grayson, or Winslow. That would be a disgusting (in a good way).

Hell, I could be the 6th man and we'd still be ranked #1 the whole year.

I think this will be a fun debate in 3 months, because CBB might be very good next year. Several teams think they are going to be really good, I know Zona fans are already printing their preseason #1 shirts, some of the non-Randle UK guys might stay, UNC will be good all year, and there's a decent chance that KU rolls out Tharpe-Selden-Oubre-Embiid-Alexander (3 possible top 5 picks, plus another lottery), with 13ppg scorer Perry Ellis off the bench.

[Saratoga2]

You talking for next year or in the last decade? Cus the answer would probably be 'No' to either.

The starting five would be:

1: Tyus/Cook
2: Sulaimon
3: Hood
4: Parker
5: The Oak

That means 1 of Tyus/Cook and Amile would be guaranteed not to start. Neither would M. Jones, Semi O, MP3, Grayson, or Winslow. That would be a disgusting (in a good way).

Hell, I could be the 6th man and we'd still be ranked #1 the whole year.


Kind of a silly thought cause it won't happen. What we will actually have will be special enough.

[dukelifer]

Jason, you contradict yourself -- saying he's "even more likely to turn pro..." and then if he only really cared about turning pro, he could have stayed at MSU.

I think the 2nd point is right, and why us fans can hold out at least a slim hope that he'll stay. Why waste a year sitting if his intention was to turn pro? Of course, sitting on the Duke bench and practicing with the team is not a waste, but if the goal was just to get to the NBA as fast as possible, then it seems a strange road to take.

Parker and Hood both have reasons why they might want to stay (graduating, winning a(nother) championship, working on D, beefing up, enjoying campus life), and why they might want to go (instant millionaires), and some of what will get factored in is what happens in the next 5 weeks. Whatever they decide, I hope we'll all support them. I don't think its selfish to hope they stay, just as I'd hope we'd be gracious if they decide to go.

I always think about what Trajan said when he and Brand were being interviewed about leaving early. Langdon said that the NBA will always be there, so what's the rush (or words to that effect).

Not sure I agree. Going to Duke increases visibility by a factor of 10. Hood is rising up the boards because of that exposure. He worked on his game and now he is showing what he can do. There was no guarantee that he would have an All-ACC year. If he is a projected lottery pick- he will likely go. His game will translate to the NBA- but like most guys- he can always work on things.

[Eakane]

Not sure I agree. Going to Duke increases visibility by a factor of 10. Hood is rising up the boards because of that exposure. He worked on his game and now he is showing what he can do. There was no guarantee that he would have an All-ACC year. If he is a projected lottery pick- he will likely go. His game will translate to the NBA- but like most guys- he can always work on things.

Visibility for fans is increased by a factor of 10. But not among NBA scouts. If I'm an NBA exec, I'm spending the money to send someone to Mssissippi to check out a 6'8" player, with 2-guard skills ad a great shot.
I'm jut saying that if his goal was to get to the NBA asap, it seems an odd choice. Glad to have him whether he stays 1 year or 3.

[CDu]

I don't get the love for Ennis. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad he's got this hype and will likely only spend 1 year at Syracuse but... his #s are pretty comparable to Paige and not that much better than Quinn Cook. 12 pts, 5.5 assists, not a particularly good shooter.

I think the big thing is that, as a freshman, and tasked with the responsibility of running the Cuse offense, and yet he is putting up a 5.6:1.6 assist:turnover ratio and has led the team to a really good record (including hitting a ton of key shots late in close wins).

He's a terrific pass-first playmaking PG who can also score some. Given his youth, that makes him a really interesting prospect. He is probably getting overrated some by Syracuse's record (as is Fair). As Cuse keeps losing, that "leading the #1 team" argument dissipates more and more, and people will start seeing his numbers more for what they really are.

But that being said, his numbers for a freshman PG are really, really good. When you consider that (a) Cook is a junior and (b) Cook has many more weapons around him, I think being comparable (better, actually) to Cook is a pretty strong positive statement about Ennis.

[brevity]

CNNSI's latest has him as the #8 guy:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140227/nba-draft-big-board-andrew-wiggins-jabari-parker/?eref=sihp

Allow me to put on my Jason "I don't wash it until the season is over" Evans salary cap.

SI has moved Rodney Hood up from the late lottery (#13) to mid-lottery (#8). Let's say that this draft projection comes into fruition. The #8 pick makes significantly more money than the #13 pick. Last year Kentavious Caldwell-Pope was drafted #8, and his salary is $2,653,080.* Kelly Olynyk was drafted #13 and makes a rookie salary of $1,986,360. Based on 2013 numbers, that is a first-year salary difference of $666,720.

The difference is even more pronounced for PJ Hairston, who has moved into the mid-round since impressing scouts while playing for the Texas Legends. Salary numbers for particular D-League players are hard to come by, but the average salary (team salary cap divided by number of players) is $17,300**. If he were drafted 16th as SI predicts, he would make a rookie salary similar to Giannis Antetokounmpo, selected 15th in 2013: $1,792,560. That's about 100 times better, and certainly enough to buy a car instead of relying on other people's rentals.

*Kentavious Caldwell-Pope asked for the $80 in quarters, because of laundry.
**PJ Hairston asked for the entire $17,300 to be paid in daily installments of weed.

[InSpades]

I think the big thing is that, as a freshman, and tasked with the responsibility of running the Cuse offense, and yet he is putting up a 5.6:1.6 assist:turnover ratio and has led the team to a really good record (including hitting a ton of key shots late in close wins).

He's a terrific pass-first playmaking PG who can also score some. Given his youth, that makes him a really interesting prospect. He is probably getting overrated some by Syracuse's record (as is Fair). As Cuse keeps losing, that "leading the #1 team" argument dissipates more and more, and people will start seeing his numbers more for what they really are.

But that being said, his numbers for a freshman PG are really, really good. When you consider that (a) Cook is a junior and (b) Cook has many more weapons around him, I think being comparable (better, actually) to Cook is a pretty strong positive statement about Ennis.

It just seems like a #7 pick in the draft should be outstanding. Most people here don't think Ennis is 1st team All-ACC. Last year, Trey Burke went 9th in the draft. He was Big Ten player of the year, 1st team all-america, etc. That's the kind of stuff I expect to see out of a top 10 pick.

Quinn Cook isn't being talked about as coming out early at all. He would need to step it up a lot in the next year or so to get drafted. There's a lot of range between "better than Quinn Cook" and top 10 pick in the 2014 draft.

[Kedsy]

I think he needs another year at Duke to get stronger physically and to show (both to himself and to NBA scouts) that he can take over games against high-end competition.

There are reasons for players to stay in college, but isn't it true that players generally work on getting stronger in the off-season? And to the extent that they lift during the season, wouldn't they have more time to do this in the NBA, where basketball is their job, than in college, where players also have to go to class and so on?


Jabari will be a good pro one day- but he is not an elite shooter- despite the early success. Perhaps he can become one with hard work. He also needs to develop his ball handling around the hoop and his D is below average. He needs one more year or so to tune his game.

Similarly, in college supervised practice time is limited and you have other responsibilities. In the pros, this is your job. Why do people think working on something like shooting or ballhandling would be easier to do or more effective while in college than in the pros? I'd think just the opposite and, as anecdotal support, plenty of guys who didn't shoot so well in college shoot better after a few years in the League.

Also, defense seems to be played differently in the NBA than in college, so you could make the argument that college is not a very good place to work on your defense (accepting my caveat (a), below).

If you're thinking solely about preparation for a pro career, the only two reasons I can see to stay in school to work on your skills is if either (a) your lack of strength or shooting or ballhandling or defense or whatever is going to keep you from being drafted or keep you from being drafted in a good enough position; or (b) if you need to experience of being "the man" to give you the confidence and allow you to do the little things that help spell success at the next level.

Neither of these things would seem to apply at all to either Rodney or Jabari, in that they both appear to be projected lottery picks and they're both "the man" this year. So, if "pro career" is the paramount factor for either of them, they should and will leave for the NBA after this season. In my mind, if either of them stay it would only be for non-basketball reasons (I'm counting "wanting to win a title" and "enjoying playing/spending time with teammates" as non-basketball, because these things are really for personal satisfaction rather than playing or improving on the court).

[Henderson]

The difference is even more pronounced for PJ Hairston, who has moved into the mid-round since impressing scouts while playing for the Texas Legends. * * * If he were drafted 16th as SI predicts, he would make a rookie salary similar to Giannis Antetokounmpo, selected 15th in 2013: $1,792,560. That's about 100 times better, and certainly enough to buy a car instead of relying on other people's rentals.


Dang, if I had that kind of money coming, I wouldn't think twice about tossing away a perfectly good firearm either.

[Kfanarmy]

Just in case people forget, though we have only had Rodney on the court for us for one season, this is his third season in college. The fact that he is eager and ready to go to the pros should come as no surprise to anyone and I think hoping he will stick around would be really selfish on our part. For a player of his quality, even waiting three years seems much longer than usual.

That's why I think he is even more likely to turn pro than kids like Parker, Embiid, and others who are younger but projected higher up in the lottery than Rodney is.

-Jason "if Hood really only cared about going pro, he could have stayed at MSU as a soph and likely been at least a mid-first rounder a year ago" Evans While I certainly understand him wanting/going to the NBA. I won't feel too bad about hoping he stays in a Duke uni for one more season.

[CDu]

It just seems like a #7 pick in the draft should be outstanding. Most people here don't think Ennis is 1st team All-ACC. Last year, Trey Burke went 9th in the draft. He was Big Ten player of the year, 1st team all-america, etc. That's the kind of stuff I expect to see out of a top 10 pick.

Quinn Cook isn't being talked about as coming out early at all. He would need to step it up a lot in the next year or so to get drafted. There's a lot of range between "better than Quinn Cook" and top 10 pick in the 2014 draft.

The NBA draft is not an achievement award. It is a projection. Ennis is better than Cook AND two years less developed (both physically and in terms of his game). Those extra years of develop makes a HUGE difference in a player's draft stock in terms of his potential.

Burke needed to be closer to a first-team All-America because he was a year older. And Cook, not being even in first- or second-team All-ACC discussion right now as a junior says a lot as to why he's not in the discussion for early entry.

I would definitely put Ennis in the first-team All-ACC conversation. I think he's the best PG in the conference. He's one of the best PG prospects in the country. If he goes, that is why he'll wind up a high draft pick: because he is among the best available players at his position AND he's only a freshman.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think this will be a fun debate in 3 months, because CBB might be very good next year. Several teams think they are going to be really good, I know Zona fans are already printing their preseason #1 shirts, some of the non-Randle UK guys might stay, UNC will be good all year, and there's a decent chance that KU rolls out Tharpe-Selden-Oubre-Embiid-Alexander (3 possible top 5 picks, plus another lottery), with 13ppg scorer Perry Ellis off the bench.

You're still thinking Embiid will stay, huh? I'm convinced that the top 3 picks are long gone (Embiid, Parker, and Wiggins). Joining that club are Hood (21 years old), Smart (his stock isn't going to rise, it may fall again though), Vonleh (guaranteed top ten talent. He probably doesn't want to pull a Smart), and Harris (his stock probably can't get any higher). After that, it gets a little more tricky.

I know your rationale behind Embiid makes sense (post play is about confidence, Embiid doesn't need the money as much as more prospects), but for every Smart that stays a year, there are a ton more Austin Riverses and Cody Zellers. Also, I don't see how 20 hours of practice / coaching a week trumps 24-7 face-time with all the coaching and training talent you need in the NBA. I really think that is the kicker. Coach K may be the best in the business, but he is limited by his exposure to his players. Plus, no classes!

[InSpades]

The NBA draft is not an achievement award. It is a projection. Ennis is better than Cook AND two years less developed (both physically and in terms of his game). Those extra years of develop makes a HUGE difference in a player's draft stock in terms of his potential.

Burke needed to be closer to a first-team All-America because he was a year older. And Cook, not being even in first- or second-team All-ACC discussion right now as a junior says a lot as to why he's not in the discussion for early entry.

I would definitely put Ennis in the first-team All-ACC conversation. I think he's the best PG in the conference. He's one of the best PG prospects in the country. If he goes, that is why he'll wind up a high draft pick: because he is among the best available players at his position AND he's only a freshman.

He's in the discussion, but Paige is having a much better year. Ennis might be a top 5 PG in the country. Does that mean he should go top 10?

The guys over at CBSsports haven't updated their mocks recently but they have Ennis as a late 1st and an early 2nd round pick. I think that might be low but a lot more reasonable than top 10 to me.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft

[CDu]

He's in the discussion, but Paige is having a much better year. Ennis might be a top 5 PG in the country. Does that mean he should go top 10?

The guys over at CBSsports haven't updated their mocks recently but they have Ennis as a late 1st and an early 2nd round pick. I think that might be low but a lot more reasonable than top 10 to me.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/draft/mock-draft

He will almost certainly be a first-team All-ACC player (as will Paige). And I wouldn't say that Paige is having a "much better" year. I would say it's pretty close (Paige the better scorer, Ennis the more polished PG and better defender). But both will be 1st team All-ACC guys.

And again, we have to take his performance AND his age into account when determining draft position. He's easily a top-5 PG in the country. As a freshman. That's really good.

The only real question is whether or not his measurables (height, athleticism) stand up. But in terms of performance relative to experience, he is almost certainly the #1 American PG on NBA draft boards.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He will almost certainly be a first-team All-ACC player (as will Paige).

And again, we have to take his performance AND his age into account when determining draft position. He's easily a top-5 PG in the country. As a freshman. That's really good.

The only real question is whether or not his measurables (height, athleticism) stand up. But in terms of performance relative to experience, he is almost certainly the #1 American PG on NBA draft boards.

PGs are interesting. In the mid-lottery, it's a very mixed bag. Here is a list of PGs taken between 4-14 in the last 5 drafts:

-Trey Burke (2013), jury still out
-CJ McCollum (2013), injured but not producing much
-Michael Carter-Williams (2013), hit
-Damian Lillard (2012), hit
-Kendall Marshall (2012), miss
-Brandon Knight (2011), mediocre
-Kemba Walker (2011), hit
-Jimmer Fredette (2011), miss
-Ricky Rubio (2009), mediocre
-Jonny Flynn (2009), miss
-Stephen Curry (2009), hit
-Brandon Jennings (2009), mediocre/hit

The jury is still out on Burke and McCollum, but this list is really mixed. Make your own conclusions about that list. There really aren't many conclusions to make.

[InSpades]

He will almost certainly be a first-team All-ACC player (as will Paige). And I wouldn't say that Paige is having a "much better" year. I would say it's pretty close (Paige the better scorer, Ennis the more polished PG and better defender). But both will be 1st team All-ACC guys.

And again, we have to take his performance AND his age into account when determining draft position. He's easily a top-5 PG in the country. As a freshman. That's really good.

The only real question is whether or not his measurables (height, athleticism) stand up. But in terms of performance relative to experience, he is almost certainly the #1 American PG on NBA draft boards.

Marcus Smart? Please find me a mock draft that lists Ennis over Smart.

Paige is a much much much more efficient (and higher volume) scorer. Ennis plays defense in a zone. Can you really compare him to Paige in that respect? Ennis will be lucky to get 1st team All-ACC if he does.

Care to place a friendly wager on Ennis not being a top 10 pick next year?

[CDu]

Marcus Smart? Please find me a mock draft that lists Ennis over Smart.

Paige is a much much much more efficient (and higher volume) scorer. Ennis plays defense in a zone. Can you really compare him to Paige in that respect? Ennis will be lucky to get 1st team All-ACC if he does.

Care to place a friendly wager on Ennis not being a top 10 pick next year?

Smart will go top-5 and is more a lead/combo guard. Ennis is a pure PG.

And I said Paige was the better scorer, didn't I? Ennis the the better PG, Paige the better scorer. They both make first team.

As for the wager, I don't bet on things I have no control over. Draft stock can fluctuate wildly, especially as we approach the draft.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Smart will go top-5 and is more a lead/combo guard. Ennis is a pure PG.

And I said Paige was the better scorer, didn't I? Ennis the the better PG, Paige the better scorer. They both make first team.

As for the wager, I don't bet on things I have no control over. Draft stock can fluctuate wildly, especially as we approach the draft.

You don't bet on sports at all?

[InSpades]

Smart will go top-5 and is more a lead/combo guard. Ennis is a pure PG.

And I said Paige was the better scorer, didn't I? Ennis the the better PG, Paige the better scorer. They both make first team.

As for the wager, I don't bet on things I have no control over. Draft stock can fluctuate wildly, especially as we approach the draft.

Smart is a PG. Everyone lists him as a PG except for you I guess.

Paige isn't just a better scorer than Ennis, he's a much better scorer than Ennis. Paige shoots 47% on 2s, Ennis shoots 43%. Paige shoots a lot of 3s at 40%, Ennis barely shoots any 3s at 37%. Paige gets to the foul line slightly more and shoots 89% when he gets there. Ennis only shoots 75%.

NBA point guards w/out an outside shot are generally lightning fast (some are both). Ennis has neither. He's a pretty good finisher on drives in college but that changes a lot when you get to the NBA.

Lastly, Ennis can't be the #1 American PG (or #1 American anything). He's Canadian. :).

[superdave]

Marcus Smart? Please find me a mock draft that lists Ennis over Smart.

Paige is a much much much more efficient (and higher volume) scorer. Ennis plays defense in a zone. Can you really compare him to Paige in that respect? Ennis will be lucky to get 1st team All-ACC if he does.

Care to place a friendly wager on Ennis not being a top 10 pick next year?

Chad Ford's latest mock draft has the Cavs picking Smart and playing him at the 2 alongside KI and bringing Waiters off the bench (or dealing him). So yeah, teams do look at things a little differently than we do.

[TexHawk]

Marcus Smart? Please find me a mock draft that lists Ennis over Smart.

Paige is a much much much more efficient (and higher volume) scorer. Ennis plays defense in a zone. Can you really compare him to Paige in that respect? Ennis will be lucky to get 1st team All-ACC if he does.

Care to place a friendly wager on Ennis not being a top 10 pick next year?

SI has Ennis at 7 and Smart at 11 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140227/nba-draft-big-board-andrew-wiggins-jabari-parker/index.html).

[InSpades]

Chad Ford's latest mock draft has the Cavs picking Smart and playing him at the 2 alongside KI and bringing Waiters off the bench (or dealing him). So yeah, teams do look at things a little differently than we do.

Isn't that Chad Ford looking at it differently than we do?

Smart is not a shooter, I doubt he will be picked by a team that doesn't want to put the ball in his hands. Could it happen... sure, I guess. Cleveland has done a lot dumber things in their time.

[TexHawk]

Smart will go top-5 and is more a lead/combo guard.

In one sense, it's kinda pointless to make predictions about spots before we know the draft positions of the NBA teams. I mean, if the Rockets somehow get the #1 pick after a series of crazy trades, they won't take Embiid because they have Dwight Howard. And that's nothing against Embiid.

But it's pretty clear that Smart is behind Exum at least, though that could certainly change as more people see Exum's game against high-level competition.

[CDu]

You don't bet on sports at all?

Not even a little.

[dukelifer]

There are reasons for players to stay in college, but isn't it true that players generally work on getting stronger in the off-season? And to the extent that they lift during the season, wouldn't they have more time to do this in the NBA, where basketball is their job, than in college, where players also have to go to class and so on?



Similarly, in college supervised practice time is limited and you have other responsibilities. In the pros, this is your job. Why do people think working on something like shooting or ballhandling would be easier to do or more effective while in college than in the pros? I'd think just the opposite and, as anecdotal support, plenty of guys who didn't shoot so well in college shoot better after a few years in the League.

Also, defense seems to be played differently in the NBA than in college, so you could make the argument that college is not a very good place to work on your defense (accepting my caveat (a), below).

If you're thinking solely about preparation for a pro career, the only two reasons I can see to stay in school to work on your skills is if either (a) your lack of strength or shooting or ballhandling or defense or whatever is going to keep you from being drafted or keep you from being drafted in a good enough position; or (b) if you need to experience of being "the man" to give you the confidence and allow you to do the little things that help spell success at the next level.

Neither of these things would seem to apply at all to either Rodney or Jabari, in that they both appear to be projected lottery picks and they're both "the man" this year. So, if "pro career" is the paramount factor for either of them, they should and will leave for the NBA after this season. In my mind, if either of them stay it would only be for non-basketball reasons (I'm counting "wanting to win a title" and "enjoying playing/spending time with teammates" as non-basketball, because these things are really for personal satisfaction rather than playing or improving on the court).

Pro basketball is a job but it can also be a grind. Many players don't get better because they simply do not know HOW to improve- how to self identify weaknesses and get better. Derrick Williams is a good comparison to Jabari. A second pick with tremendous potential. The guy has been in the league three years and is still just fair- he has not really gotten any better as a shooter- despite having ample time to work on his shooting. It is all about putting in the hard work. That needs to be learned/refined. College is a safe place to learn how to work at your game. But just because it is your job doesn't mean you will get any better. Jabari will get paid and ultimately it is up to him as to how good he wants to get.

[Kedsy]

Jabari will get paid and ultimately it is up to him as to how good he wants to get.

Well, sure, but isn't that latter part true in college, too? No matter where you are if you work at it you can get better and if you don't work at it you won't. But assuming a player's work ethic would be the same in both environments, why would it be better (in this context -- ignoring non-basketball reasons) for him to stay in school?

[dukelifer]

Well, sure, but isn't that latter part true in college, too? No matter where you are if you work at it you can get better and if you don't work at it you won't. But assuming a player's work ethic would be the same in both environments, why would it be better (in this context -- ignoring non-basketball reasons) for him to stay in school?

Much different pressures and distractions on a kid in the two worlds. College is a much safer environment for learning how to develop. I would say that is true for most students. The NBA may let you develop but teams can send you on your way. Adapting to new coaches- new cities - new pressures is much easier said than done for a 19 year old. Just because someone throws millions at you does not mean you are ready to handle it. Another distraction. Jabari is probably better equipped than most because his Dad went through it- but a typical kid is being thrown into the ocean and asked to swim. I also think most players will get better at their weaknesses provided they do something at an elite level already- their go to move. I am not convinced Jabari has figured that out yet. We will see.

[weezie]

I've stated this before, but I see a lot of Rip Hamilton in Hood. Slender, tall, great mid-range game.

Interesting F450, and I agree. I think Rip was still much more mobile and automatic catch and shoot in college but that was their play structure up there in dreaded ct. Rodney has about 10,000,000 more miles to run to catch Hamilton. Rip was also one of the guys I had to forgive when he became a Piston and gave me a world title. It's not easy, but I can be magnanimous once in a while. :cool: