Another reason to think about banning "rushing the court"

[FerryFor50]

Fans brawl with players after NMSU/Utah Valley game (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1976411-new-mexico-state-vs-utah-valley-ends-in-fight-as-fans-storm-court-after-game?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial&hpt=hp_t2)

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Roy will be ecstatic if he can finally stay on the floor with his full team for the entirety of every game.

[sporthenry]

Lost in all this will probably be K's comments about rushing the court that he got so much flak for last year. Probably only a matter of time with every win nowadays being cause for rushing the court. Will lead to banning sooner rather than later. Sad, b/c I like the rare court storming when TCU beats Kansas or BC beats 'Cuse but now it is just out of control. Most students see it as a rite of passage going to college.

[MChambers]

Penn State students stormed the court last night after beating #22 tOSU.

[JasonEvans]

New Mexico St has suspended the kid who threw the ball and started the whole thing. Ugly stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2al0WUXpCXg

-Jason "rushing the court is going to cause major injuries someday... pity because it is really fun!" Evans

[Dukehky]

It's a bunch of morons who want to feel like they're special because they get to go on the court and maybe get on TV. I hate it, I've always hated it. Football is a little different because football fields are huge, there is plenty of room for the other team to get out of the way. Basketball courts are different, you get 2,000 people on a basketball court and people can't freaking move.

I'm glad this happened. I wish that one of the fans would have gotten his face punched in though. It terrifies me every time Duke loses, because apparently outside of Syracuse, if you beat Duke, then you're rushing the court. I'm afraid some drunk kid is going to kick Jabari in the knee. I hope it gets banned tomorrow and I hope that kid that threw a punch as an assistant coach was pulling the player back gets sued or tried for assault.

I know the NMSU players aren't totally innocent, but wanna know how there wouldn't have been a brawl? If the fans had stayed the F in their seats.

[Wander]

Sad, b/c I like the rare court storming when BC beats 'Cuse but now it is just out of control

Well, that would have been a weird thing for Syracuse fans to do :)

[Bob Green]

I hope it gets banned tomorrow and I hope that kid that threw a punch as an assistant coach was pulling the player back gets sued or tried for assault.

This is a truly interesting comment, but I'm going to twist it a bit and talk about athletes, especially professional athletes, who engage in violence. Why aren't they prosecuted? Where else can an employee physically attack another employee and not get arrested, prosecuted or at an absolute minimum, immediately fired?

At some point in the not too distant future, work place violence standards will be enforced on professional athletes.

[throatybeard]

-Jason "rushing the court is going to cause major injuries someday... pity because it is really fun!" Evans

Someday like the UNC game sixteen years ago today; remember, that kid got elbowed in the face by Okulaja and he had to go to the hospital.

Duke basically has banned it--for several seasons, they have held those ropes around the court. To rush the court, and this would be possible, the kids would have to overpower the rope-holders. But we just beat the #1 team in the country, and it didn't happen.

[-jk]

Way Back When, we rushed the court after winning the ACC Championship. They tried to clear the court for the awards ceremony. We just sat and started chanting "Hell, no! We won't go!" In a very civilized way...

Or that's how I remember it.

-jk

[summerwind03]

Way Back When, we rushed the court after winning the ACC Championship. They tried to clear the court for the awards ceremony. We just sat and started chanting "Hell, no! We won't go!" In a very civilized way...

Or that's how I remember it.

-jk

I don't remember that, or hearing about it. What year was that?

[DU82]

I don't remember that, or hearing about it. What year was that?

1986. You must have been in another country across the pond. :)

[Newton_14]

New Mexico St has suspended the kid who threw the ball and started the whole thing. Ugly stuff.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=2al0WUXpCXg

-Jason "rushing the court is going to cause major injuries someday... pity because it is really fun!" Evans

Started it, caused it, etc. Court rushing (if u can even call this one that) had no part of this. It made it look worse, but unless I missed something, only players were fighting.

Ugly scene, but can't point the finger at court rushing on this one.

[Edouble]

Someday like the UNC game sixteen years ago today; remember, that kid got elbowed in the face by Okulaja and he had to go to the hospital.

Duke basically has banned it--for several seasons, they have held those ropes around the court. To rush the court, and this would be possible, the kids would have to overpower the rope-holders. But we just beat the #1 team in the country, and it didn't happen.

In his defense, Adi's elbow was protruding out in an attempt to beat himself, although I don't know why he couldn't have waited until he got to the locker room.

[Bluedevil114]

Started it, caused it, etc. Court rushing (if u can even call this one that) had no part of this. It made it look worse, but unless I missed something, only players were fighting.

Ugly scene, but can't point the finger at court rushing on this one.

Not true. If you study the tape it shows a fan in complete green throw a punch and then at the very end of the video you will see a player sucker punch that same fan.

[Dukehky]

Not true. If you study the tape it shows a fan in complete green throw a punch and then at the very end of the video you will see a player sucker punch that same fan.

There's so such thing as a sucker punch when you feel like you are fighting 10 vs. 300.

[Newton_14]

Not true. If you study the tape it shows a fan in complete green throw a punch and then at the very end of the video you will see a player sucker punch that same fan.
Hard to tell really. i rewatched it several times.There is a fan in all green (short guy) who is trying his best to push his fellow students away (most of whom were just running around like idiots trying to get as close to the actual player fighting as possible, but not actually fighting themselves)

My overall point remains. The court rush in no way triggered the melee. Had the player not thrown the ball, the visiting team exits the court without incident and the few fans that ran out on the court celebrate with their team.

The fans on the court made a bad situation worse, but I don't feel we see evidence in the video that suggests the fans started the fight. I think the fight happens even if no fans were on the court. I would like to see footage from a different angle.

As for allowing/disallowing court rushing, I have mixed feelings. Definitely agree it is dangerous, so no argument there. I just think if it happens only when the circumstances truly calls for it, then it would lessen the chances for disaster. One of the bigger issues with it right now is fans doing it too often. unc court rushing us last week is just laughable and shows the truly pathetic state of that school and program.

I would have no problem if they banned it though. At least with that and a fine, fans would not do it unless it was absolutely a game that called for it. I do fear for our players and consider us fortunate none of our players, coaches, or managers have been hurt. As much Duke hate as there is out there combined with us getting rushed in basically every road loss, it is amazing something bad has not happened.

[brevity]

There's so such thing as a sucker punch when you feel like you are fighting 10 vs. 300.

Zack Snyder, is that you?

The video makes clear that the end-of-game conflict and the court storming happen independently of one another. But having the fans on the court exacerbated the problem -- the level-headed people were focused on preventing player-on-player violence, not incidents between a player and a fan. There is such a thing as a sucker punch if you think you can get away with it, and that player (#25) took advantage of the crowd and confusion to make a move.

Rewatch the video and try to focus only on #25. In the beginning, he's the tallest player wearing red. He crosses the court to return to the bench quietly, basically ignoring the thrown ball incident that started all this. He looks almost blissfully unaware. Then, for whatever reason, he becomes aware of the fans congregating to the right and races along the top of the screen (0:15) to join the fray willingly, gets held back at the sideline (0:20), frees himself, disappears from camera view, and later runs into the crowd and lands a punch and runs away (0:26). Without the fans on the court, he doesn't get involved at all.

Two questions, though:

1. Where is the arena security? I don't see any jackets out there. Are they in plainclothes, or unaware, or just not there?
2. What's up with the red-faced guy in the gray suit? Is that the world's worst sunburn, or a giant gin blossom, or something more awesome?

[hurleyfor3]

This is a truly interesting comment, but I'm going to twist it a bit and talk about athletes, especially professional athletes, who engage in violence. Why aren't they prosecuted? Where else can an employee physically attack another employee and not get arrested, prosecuted or at an absolute minimum, immediately fired?

IANAL but there is a tenet that a professional athlete is to expect a certain level of violence by plying his craft. This is also the reason athletes don't sue for injuries that are incidental to the game, even if they were caused intentionally (hard fouls or tackles, beanballs, charging the mound, blocking the plate etc).

This is not unique to sports. For a few years I worked on the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange. Fighting, hard shoving, throwing objects at and spitting on other people were routine. The exchange had its own system of fines, not too different from what professional sports leagues have, but it was rare for the police to be called in. (It did happen, but for stuff like drug dealing and some savory incidents I probably shouldn't discuss on DBR. Trading fraud involved the Feds and is a separate issue.)


At some point in the not too distant future, work place violence standards will be enforced on professional athletes.

Perhaps, but my point is that standard depends on the workplace.

[ElSid]

I'm 98% sure we stormed Coach K Court in 1996 after an unlikely victory over Carolina. Not sure if that was the last time, but I definitely recall being there. It was fun. I don't think it was so fun that I'd be disappointed in a ban on storming the court.

If the guy in the wheelchair at State had been seriously injured, I think it would be an even easier decision. Instead it became a (nice) human interest story about how the player acted quickly to help him out.

As a Duke fan, I'd be kind of disappointed that we would lose all that good PR of every single student body storming the court when we barely lose away games. The title of most hated school is a good one to maintain.

[throatybeard]

I'm 98% sure we stormed Coach K Court in 1996 after an unlikely victory over Carolina. Not sure if that was the last time, but I definitely recall being there.

If you're talking about the Men's basketball team, that's impossible, given that we lost the 1996 home game to Carolina.

We did beat UCLA a week or two before, but I can't remember if we got on the floor.

[ElSid]

Well then. It was 97?

[Duvall]

Well then. It was 97?

Probably, though Duke was almost certainly favored in that game. We rushed the floor anyway, because kids are dumb.

[Tripping William]

Well then. It was 97?

Nope, because it wasn't "Coach K Court" until November 2000. :)

[ElSid]

Nope, because it wasn't "Coach K Court" until November 2000. :)

Haha. Right. Well either way. I remember being on that court at some point after camping out for a Duke UNC game. I obviously have forgotten an awful lot since college :confused:

[Dukehky]

Haha. Right. Well either way. I remember being on that court at some point after camping out for a Duke UNC game. I obviously have forgotten an awful lot since college :confused:

Crazies rushed the court in 98 after the win on Wojo, Price, McLeod's senior night. We were 1 in the country, UNC was 2(?), but we had gotten waxed in Chapel Hill. Elton Brand had a miraculous recovery from a broken foot and he had like 17 and 12 in that game. Last time it happened I think,

I think a few kids made it on the court after the Dockery shot because they couldn't get the ropes out in time, but it got shut down pretty quickly.

[Wander]

I think a few kids made it on the court after the Dockery shot because they couldn't get the ropes out in time, but it got shut down pretty quickly.

Haha, it was definitely more than a few kids. It was a legit court rushing, maybe just delayed by 15 seconds or so instead of right at the buzzer.

[Dukehky]

Look at these morons jumping up and down on the court, the UVA players aren't even there, so the "celebrate with your team" argument goes out the window. It's kids who want to be on TV, nothing else.

[ElSid]

Look at these morons jumping up and down on the court, the UVA players aren't even there, so the "celebrate with your team" argument goes out the window. It's kids who want to be on TV, nothing else.

Eh, I don't know. Just being on the court to celebrate with your friends is something. Until we ban the thing, this one is legit. They had the ACC regular season best record for the first time since 81 and beat the #4 team in the country handily.

I think I'm actually happy for Virginia. A program that's had a dramatic four year turnaround with Joe Harris. After our football seasons the last couple years, I'm a big fan of these kinds of turnaround stories...not that it's quite as dramatic.

[Olympic Fan]

And they rushed the court in Columbia, SC, when South Carolina upset Kentucky ... even though that will mean a $25,000 fine to the school (the SEC bans court rushes ... the first is $25,000 ... the second is $50,000)

Mike Wilbon suggested the other day that if you fans rush the court, you forfeit the win. To me, that's going a bit far -- but I think the fines are warranted.

[hurleyfor3]

Mike Wilbon suggested the other day that if you fans rush the court, you forfeit the win. To me, that's going a bit far -- but I think the fines are warranted.

I've made a similar suggestion in the past, that you forfeit it in the conference standings (or if it's a nonconference game, you get docked a conference win). It's still a win on your overall record and for NCAA Tournament purposes.

[gep]

And they rushed the court in Columbia, SC, when South Carolina upset Kentucky ... even though that will mean a $25,000 fine to the school (the SEC bans court rushes ... the first is $25,000 ... the second is $50,000)

What kinda bothers me about the fine... who pays, the school, right? I don't think the students care one bit. Why not charge that back to the students at the game. Shouldn't they know which students attended the game? At Duke, they swipe their student card, so I would think it's very easy to charge the correct students. Then, the students may just think about it before rushing the court. And the few idiots that actually do rush the court can get the wrath of all the other students at the game. (Well, $25,000 over 1,000+ students is $25 or less per student... not much, I guess, to deter such actions. Maybe add on a surcharge or processing fee?):confused:

[Newton_14]

What kinda bothers me about the fine... who pays, the school, right? I don't think the students care one bit. Why not charge that back to the students at the game. Shouldn't they know which students attended the game? At Duke, they swipe their student card, so I would think it's very easy to charge the correct students. Then, the students may just think about it before rushing the court. And the few idiots that actually do rush the court can get the wrath of all the other students at the game. (Well, $25,000 over 1,000+ students is $25 or less per student... not much, I guess, to deter such actions. Maybe add on a surcharge or processing fee?):confused:

I see your point here, but, I do believe that if the school takes a stand and declares a zero tolerance of court rushing, they could prevent it from happening. Just like the situation with the boorish behavior in College Park, not doing anything to stop it is silent approval.

It has to start with the school taking a stand. Employ the policy you suggest above. Threaten expulsion from school, or alternative penalties, like banning them from future games, etc.

The SEC policy has reduced it, but I knew they were going to rush the court today, because the SEC Schools have not taken any measures that I am aware of, to let their student body and fans know that they 1. Agree with the policy and 2. Will help the league enforce it.

Maybe some schools have done that, not sure. Just not aware of it if they have.

[hurleyfor3]

What kinda bothers me about the fine... who pays, the school, right? I don't think the students care one bit. Why not charge that back to the students at the game. Shouldn't they know which students attended the game? At Duke, they swipe their student card, so I would think it's very easy to charge the correct students. Then, the students may just think about it before rushing the court. And the few idiots that actually do rush the court can get the wrath of all the other students at the game. (Well, $25,000 over 1,000+ students is $25 or less per student... not much, I guess, to deter such actions. Maybe add on a surcharge or processing fee?):confused:

You don't pay your share of the fine, you don't get to register for the next semester, or you don't get your degree if you're a second-semester senior.

Identifying which kids do in fact rush the court may be an issue, unless you think it's fair to hold everyone liable. Also, student tickets at many schools are fungible, where any student can get in with any student ticket. (At some schools things may even be more lax, and I attended several games in Chapel Hill and Raleigh this way.)

[nocilla]

I think UVA handled it right. Watching the highlights, there was a line of yellow security seperating the court rushing from the players/coaches. They probably learned something from the Duke game last year, but I applaud this effort to ensure safety and still allow the kids to have their fun.

[Newton_14]

Can't believe no one else has revived this thread after last nights scare. Sorry I don't have a video link yet. Will try to find one and post it, but Travis McKie is my new hero and favorite non-Duke player in the ACC. He saved Rasheed's butt last night. See, to me, last night was way worse in terms of potential nightmare with fan/player than the game that started this thread.

Rasheed got totally engulfed in the mass of Wake students/fans during the court rush. Now part of that was his own fault for inexplicably not doing a thing to get out of harms way, but it was a potential nightmare. Anything could have happened, most of them bad for Rasheed and Duke. Rasheed gets hurt, or worse, has to fight his way out and ends up hitting/punching a fan, etc. Thank God for Travis Mckie for literally bear hugging Rasheed and pulling him out of the fray. Surreal moment there.

I thought UVA handled it well in their game with Cuse. They formed a human wall to buffer the players and coaches from the fans, and only let fans on the floor from the opposite side. Teams were then able to shake hands and walk off the floor normally while the students got their celebration. Absent of banning it once an for all, that is the only sane solution.


https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/9EDCF483421053179082348638208_178f0983f09.4.8.1235 550022901100564.mp4?versionId=vn9RXUFmyHr9dugAO.4L dsFJDlfhmHbf

[Kishiznit]

Agree with you Newton for the most part. I, along with about 5K other DUKE fans, was storming the Lawrence Joel parking lot with about a minute to go last night. Just brought myself to replay of game earlier and appreciate what McKie did for Rasheed. However, Rasheed and other players need to get the heck out of harms way sooner. When an L is apparent, prepare to move.

[CDu]

Crazies rushed the court in 98 after the win on Wojo, Price, McLeod's senior night. We were 1 in the country, UNC was 2(?), but we had gotten waxed in Chapel Hill. Elton Brand had a miraculous recovery from a broken foot and he had like 17 and 12 in that game. Last time it happened I think,

I think a few kids made it on the court after the Dockery shot because they couldn't get the ropes out in time, but it got shut down pretty quickly.

I don't think either of those were "rushing the court." Yes, students ended up on the court. But it was after players had left the floor. People constantly reference the Dockery game, but that was the team and managers that rushed the court (a friend of mine was working the scorer's table that game and vehemently denies there was a court-storming.

I think we need to make the distinction between storming the court and celebrating on the floor after the game. Storming the court, to me, implies a bunch of students rushing onto the floor right after the buzzer before the players can get off the floor. That, to my knowledge, has not happened in the 15+ years that I've been a student or a graduate fan.

[gep]

Can't believe no one else has revived this thread after last nights scare. Sorry I don't have a video link yet. Will try to find one and post it, but Travis McKie is my new hero and favorite non-Duke player in the ACC. He saved Rasheed's butt last night. See, to me, last night was way worse in terms of potential nightmare with fan/player than the game that started this thread.

Rasheed got totally engulfed in the mass of Wake students/fans during the court rush. Now part of that was his own fault for inexplicably not doing a thing to get out of harms way, but it was a potential nightmare. Anything could have happened, most of them bad for Rasheed and Duke. Rasheed gets hurt, or worse, has to fight his way out and ends up hitting/punching a fan, etc. Thank God for Travis Mckie for literally bear hugging Rasheed and pulling him out of the fray. Surreal moment there.

I didn't pay too much attention while watching the game. But I just went back to ESPN3 and watched that incident. Indeed, Rasheed was totally engulfed by the fans, got bumped by the fans, then actually disappearing. Then out of one side, Mckie looked to actually "carry" Rasheed out of the mob and gave him a nice "pat" and send-off to the Duke bench. Very nice and classy gesture by Mckie.

Also, I think it was Andre that was walking off the court, at apparently the same "speed" as Rasheed, but Andre was near the sideline when the fans got to the middle of the court... where Rasheed was. And the fans came from their side and back, so I don't they saw the fans coming, or thought too much to get off as quickly as possible.

[BlueDevil2K]

Crazies rushed the court in 98 after the win on Wojo, Price, McLeod's senior night. We were 1 in the country, UNC was 2(?), but we had gotten waxed in Chapel Hill. Elton Brand had a miraculous recovery from a broken foot and he had like 17 and 12 in that game. Last time it happened I think,

I think a few kids made it on the court after the Dockery shot because they couldn't get the ropes out in time, but it got shut down pretty quickly.

Definitely no court rushing after the Dockery shot. I know that the ropes were out in time, because I saw the shot and realized that I might get trampled if I didn't get to the other end of the court with the rope before people realized what had just happened. :)

Watch from the upper right as they pan out...that's me sprinting down the sidelines with the rope...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuQ-dlhyfNc

[gus]

I didn't pay too much attention while watching the game. But I just went back to ESPN3 and watched that incident. Indeed, Rasheed was totally engulfed by the fans, got bumped by the fans, then actually disappearing. Then out of one side, Mckie looked to actually "carry" Rasheed out of the mob and gave him a nice "pat" and send-off to the Duke bench. Very nice and classy gesture by Mckie.

Also, I think it was Andre that was walking off the court, at apparently the same "speed" as Rasheed, but Andre was near the sideline when the fans got to the middle of the court... where Rasheed was. And the fans came from their side and back, so I don't they saw the fans coming, or thought too much to get off as quickly as possible.

here's a good floor level video of Mckie pulling 'sheed out of the fray:

http://collegespun.com/acc/duke/video-wakes-travis-mckie-helps-dukes-rasheed-sulaimon-off-court-during-floor-storming

[flyingdutchdevil]

here's a good floor level video of Mckie pulling 'sheed out of the fray:

http://collegespun.com/acc/duke/video-wakes-travis-mckie-helps-dukes-rasheed-sulaimon-off-court-during-floor-storming

Insanely classy move by McKie. I'll be rooting for this kid for the foreseeable future.

[jv001]

Can't believe no one else has revived this thread after last nights scare. Sorry I don't have a video link yet. Will try to find one and post it, but Travis McKie is my new hero and favorite non-Duke player in the ACC. He saved Rasheed's butt last night. See, to me, last night was way worse in terms of potential nightmare with fan/player than the game that started this thread.

Rasheed got totally engulfed in the mass of Wake students/fans during the court rush. Now part of that was his own fault for inexplicably not doing a thing to get out of harms way, but it was a potential nightmare. Anything could have happened, most of them bad for Rasheed and Duke. Rasheed gets hurt, or worse, has to fight his way out and ends up hitting/punching a fan, etc. Thank God for Travis Mckie for literally bear hugging Rasheed and pulling him out of the fray. Surreal moment there.

I thought UVA handled it well in their game with Cuse. They formed a human wall to buffer the players and coaches from the fans, and only let fans on the floor from the opposite side. Teams were then able to shake hands and walk off the floor normally while the students got their celebration. Absent of banning it once an for all, that is the only sane solution.


https://mtc.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/9EDCF483421053179082348638208_178f0983f09.4.8.1235 550022901100564.mp4?versionId=vn9RXUFmyHr9dugAO.4L dsFJDlfhmHbf

As I was watching the game end, I say Rasheed walking very slowly off the court and I thought, man this could be really bad because the announcers were saying here comes the students. Then out of the whole mess, here comes Travis almost carrying Rasheed out off the court. I really believe if he hadn't done that, there was a good chance Sheed get's injured. As bad as he took that loss, he might have slugged someone and that would've been bad. Like you, I have a new respect for Travis. Beat UNC and GoDuke!