PDA

View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs Virginia Tech Pre-Game & In-Game Thread (Tues/1900 EST/ESPNU)



Channing
02-24-2014, 09:11 AM
We can't forget about the pending game with VPI. They may have struggled, but they had UVA on the ropes. Our guys will be coming off a crazy stretch of games ... need to keep our eye on the prize.

Matches
02-24-2014, 10:51 AM
One of those games that's way more about us than them. VPI is completely outmanned in this one. We just need to avoid a mental letdown after the last week.

I think K will play a little deeper bench in this one, maybe use the line change a time or two in the first half. We'd be foolish not to feed Jabari in the post repeatedly, as they have nothing close to an answer for him. I'd like to see Dawkins knock down a few shots, just to get him some positive minutes before the layoff.

CDu
02-24-2014, 10:56 AM
We need to make this essentially a walk-over. VT is SO bad. We are better at every position on the floor. We are at home. We need to blow the doors off of them early and coast to an easy win.

Troublemaker
02-24-2014, 01:25 PM
We can't forget about the pending game with VPI. They may have struggled, but they had UVA on the ropes.

Yeah, I would say VaTech has shown a better level of play (for them) in 3 of the past 4 games. They took Pitt to 2OTs at Pitt, they beat Miami at home, and they lost by 4 to UVA. They've raised their KenPom ranking over the past 4 games from 220th to 183rd. Hey, every team runs their own race, right?


One of those games that's way more about us than them.

It would be all too human for our players, especially the young guys, to kind of take a deep breath and relax after a rough stretch of games, as much as the coaches will be on them not to do so. I hope Duke comes out like a fireball in this game, but I could also envision a bad 1st half happening. That's as far as it would go, though. Some yelling at halftime, and Duke should blow them out in the 2nd half under that scenario.

What I'll be looking for: fighting the urge to relax and therefore dominating from the tip, beating VaTech on the boards, and shooting well from outside.

sduke1986
02-24-2014, 01:47 PM
Yeah, I would say VaTech has shown a better level of play (for them) in 3 of the past 4 games.
They took Pitt to 2OTs at Pitt, they beat Miami at home, and they lost by 4 to UVA. They've raised their KenPom ranking over the past 4 games from 220th to 183rd. Hey, every team runs their own race, right?



It would be all too human for our players, especially the young guys, to kind of take a deep breath and relax after a rough stretch of games, as much as the coaches will be on them not to do so. I hope Duke comes out like a fireball in this game, but I could also envision a bad 1st half happening. That's as far as it would go, though. Some yelling at halftime, and Duke should blow them out in the 2nd half under that scenario.

What I'll be looking for: fighting the urge to relax and therefore dominating from the tip, beating VaTech on the boards, and shooting well from outside.

Man, does any team play to the level of their competition more than Pitt?

jv001
02-24-2014, 01:50 PM
I know we've discussed the line change/rotation to death, but this would be a very good game to use it. Our energy level would be way up and the Crazies would be at the top of their game. They love Marshall and really root for our bench guys(not that they don't root our regular starters).As Matches stated, it's more about us than VT. I think Cdu said we're better at every position than them and I agree. The only way the game's close is if we let it be close. GoDuke!

sduke1986
02-24-2014, 01:55 PM
I know we've discussed the line change/rotation to death, but this would be a very good game to use it. Our energy level would be way up and the Crazies would be at the top of their game. They love Marshall and really root for our bench guys(not that they don't root our regular starters).As Matches stated, it's more about us than VT. I think Cdu said we're better at every position than them and I agree. The only way the game's close is if we let it be close. GoDuke!

Preach!

jv001
02-24-2014, 02:13 PM
Preach!

Amen! And, thanks for serving. GoDuke and GoUSA!!!!

flyingdutchdevil
02-24-2014, 02:19 PM
I know we've discussed the line change/rotation to death, but this would be a very good game to use it. Our energy level would be way up and the Crazies would be at the top of their game. They love Marshall and really root for our bench guys(not that they don't root our regular starters).As Matches stated, it's more about us than VT. I think Cdu said we're better at every position than them and I agree. The only way the game's close is if we let it be close. GoDuke!

Wait, why would the team's energy level be up after 4 games in 10 days, with two tough games in the last 5 days? If anything, this is a trap game, especially given how bad VT is. Furthermore, like players, Cameron Crazies get burned out, especially after the energy exhausted during the 'Cuse game.

I agree that the bench should be used more for this game, but I think that's because of the reasons CDu provided: VT is bad (really bad), we're at home, VT is really bad, we're clicking on many cylinders, and VT is really really bad.

jv001
02-24-2014, 02:28 PM
Wait, why would the team's energy level be up after 4 games in 10 days, with two tough games in the last 5 days? If anything, this is a trap game, especially given how bad VT is. Furthermore, like players, Cameron Crazies get burned out, especially after the energy exhausted during the 'Cuse game.

I agree that the bench should be used more for this game, but I think that's because of the reasons CDu provided: VT is bad (really bad), we're at home, VT is really bad, we're clicking on many cylinders, and VT is really really bad.

My reasoning is that when we first began to use it, our bench guys came in and created some energy. But after thinking about this, I don't think it would be the same because Rasheed is starting with the first unit. Someone needs to be on the 2nd unit that can create offense. Yes, it could be a trap game but I hope our players and coaches wouldn't let that happen. Not with a lot riding on how we finish the season. I'd think fatigue would be more of a factor. Especially mental fatigue. As for the Crazies, how can a young 17-21 year old be tired, wish I was that age again. Been so long, I can't remember how it felt. :cool: GoDuke!

GGLC
02-24-2014, 02:33 PM
I'd like to see a crisp offensive showing in this game. Let's get some precise passes, good ball movement, and intelligent drives.

Selover
02-24-2014, 02:39 PM
My main concern with this game is that security is on their toes in case Mr. Boeheim decides he wants to come try for another technical.

On a serious note, has anyone done any digging on his ability to grow a Zoubeard?

Troublemaker
02-24-2014, 02:50 PM
What I'll be looking for: fighting the urge to relax and therefore dominating from the tip, beating VaTech on the boards, and shooting well from outside.

One more thing, actually. I want to see Amile have a good game. If he has a 3rd straight sub-par performance, I think I'm going to begin to get worried about him.

Matches
02-24-2014, 03:02 PM
My reasoning is that when we first began to use it, our bench guys came in and created some energy. But after thinking about this, I don't think it would be the same because Rasheed is starting with the first unit. Someone needs to be on the 2nd unit that can create offense.

Cook and Dawkins presumably would fill that role.

I think an early line change might be a nice antidote for any emotional letdown. It gets a few guys in who haven't been playing much, and they can come in and just go all-out for a few minutes. Energy is contagious, and if we do come out flat, the bench may be able to help us get cranked up.

Also - I think there's some value in getting Hairston and Jones a few minutes just to help keep them fresh. This may be our last chance to do so for some time. I'd hate to see a scenario where, for example, MP3 gets hurt during the NCAAT and we need minutes from Hairston, but he hasn't gotten any in a month.

jv001
02-24-2014, 03:04 PM
One more thing, actually. I want to see Amile have a good game. If he has a 3rd straight sub-par performance, I think I'm going to begin to get worried about him.

I agree it's a concern and I foul trouble has been one thing that's held AJ back. If we play the bench, that shouldn't be a problem against VT and let's get off to a very good start. GoDuke!

gofurman
02-24-2014, 05:25 PM
One more thing, actually. I want to see Amile have a good game. If he has a 3rd straight sub-par performance, I think I'm going to begin to get worried about him.


TO be fair - UNC Is a tough game for Amile to do well in. They can be huge with Meeks etc. And cuse is so long inside though the zone does allow for O rebounds. But the talent of the opposition has to factored in when looking at a Duke performance. I want to see more tough rebounds and more O from Amile. I love when he scored on Cuse. If he is a threat to score 8 pts Duke is a difft team. As someone said Duke stagnated when Plumlee caught the ball one time at the "ACC" and did nothing despite a wide open lane. Cuse played way off Plumlee - it was the old Lance Thomas thing.. 4 on 5 on offense. Plumlee and Amile (both who have improved so much) HAVE to be at least decent offensive threats for us. can not play 4 on 5 and win big games

jv001
02-24-2014, 05:30 PM
TO be fair - UNC Is a tough game for Amile to do well in. They can be huge with Meeks etc. And cuse is so long inside though the zone does allow for O rebounds. But the talent of the opposition has to factored in when looking at a Duke performance. I want to see more tough rebounds and more O from Amile. I love when he scored on Cuse. If he is a threat to score 8 pts Duke is a difft team. As someone said Duke stagnated when Plumlee caught the ball one time at the "ACC" and did nothing despite a wide open lane. Cuse played way off Plumlee - it was the old Lance Thomas thing.. 4 on 5 on offense. Plumlee and Amile (both who have improved so much) HAVE to be at least decent offensive threats for us. can not play 4 on 5 and win big games

And I liked it when Marshall took the ball to the basket for an attempted dunk, but was fouled. He even made one of the free throws. Amile and MPIII need to make the opponent play them honest but not with a foul line jumper. All though they have as much chance of hitting that shot as Josh does on his mid-range jumpers. Bless his soul. GoDuke!

sagegrouse
02-24-2014, 05:49 PM
I assume someone has pointed out that we have a full week off after tomorrow's VPI game.

I expect Coach to get all the key players some time and to try out different combos of players.

Clay Feet POF
02-24-2014, 05:58 PM
I'd like to see a crisp offensive showing in this game. Let's get some precise passes, good ball movement, and intelligent drives.

I'm hoping Plumlee has at least one P&R even if it doesn't go in.

mgtr
02-24-2014, 07:38 PM
I'm hoping Plumlee has at least one P&R even if it doesn't go in.

P&R? Pass and rebound? Pound and rebound? Puke and Retch? I dunno? Little help? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

Clay Feet POF
02-24-2014, 07:53 PM
P&R? Pass and rebound? Pound and rebound? Puke and Retch? I dunno? Little help? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

A Winner!

roywhite
02-24-2014, 08:06 PM
And I liked it when Marshall took the ball to the basket for an attempted dunk, but was fouled. He even made one of the free throws. Amile and MPIII need to make the opponent play them honest but not with a foul line jumper. All though they have as much chance of hitting that shot as Josh does on his mid-range jumpers. Bless his soul. GoDuke!

Actually, he missed them both, my "twin-city" friend. His difficulty from the free throw line (4-15 on the year) is an obstacle to late game minutes, I'm afraid.

I will say that Marshall has been a great help to the team and exceeded my expectations; I didn't see how he could contribute, but I'm happy to have been wrong. He provides size and a physical presence down low, with an ability to block shots, alter shots, grab rebounds, and get some decisive dunks.

TruBlu
02-24-2014, 08:18 PM
P&R? Pass and rebound? Pound and rebound? Puke and Retch? I dunno? Little help? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

Actually, he probably thought he was on the YMM, Beer thread in Off-Topic and meant to type PBR.

Clay Feet POF
02-24-2014, 08:31 PM
Actually, he probably thought he was on the YMM, Beer thread in Off-Topic and meant to type PBR.


Codebreaker...Codebreaker

gofurman
02-24-2014, 10:27 PM
Never over-look an opponent. VT is not great but they have played their last 4 games far better than the previous games. While still 1-3 (last 4 games) those 3 losses were by about 5 pts each to teams like UVA and at Pitt. And they beat someone -maybe UM? They are playing better. Also, its a letdown game for duke no matter how hard you try to motivate.. UNC.. Syracuse.. VT? Kill em early and step on the throat. kill em !

Then rest up for wake and UNC. !

Troublemaker
02-24-2014, 11:59 PM
I think an early line change might be a nice antidote for any emotional letdown. It gets a few guys in who haven't been playing much, and they can come in and just go all-out for a few minutes. Energy is contagious, and if we do come out flat, the bench may be able to help us get cranked up.


Great point, Matches. If line changes are a tool in Coach K's toolbag, tomorrow seems like a perfect time to pull it out.

Reilly
02-25-2014, 12:00 AM
Play hard. Win.

ElSid
02-25-2014, 01:22 AM
can not play 4 on 5 and win big games

Ehhhhh give the young giant another couple games of nearly 20 minutes and I think you'll be surprised. His ability to finish around the rim is already quite a bit better than his brothers' in their early days. And he only stagnated at the top of the key once or twice. He got comfortable and made a couple great plays from that position, including the "drive and dish" that got Hood a wide open corner three. I actually feel confident with the ball in his hands. He's strong with it and doesn't do stupid stuff. He only had to learn from a couple instances before realizing he was wide open and could do something about it. Extremely pleasantly surprised and happy to eat crow from when, at the very beginning of the season, I didn't see a glimmer of hope this year.

gep
02-25-2014, 01:25 AM
Ehhhhh give the young giant another couple games of nearly 20 minutes and I think you'll be surprised. His ability to finish around the rim is already quite a bit better than his brothers' in their early days. And he only stagnated at the top of the key once or twice. He got comfortable and made a couple great plays from that position, including the "drive and dish" that got Hood a wide open corner three. I actually feel confident with the ball in his hands. He's strong with it and doesn't do stupid stuff. He only had to learn from a couple instances before realizing he was wide open and could do something about it. Extremely pleasantly surprised and happy to eat crow from when, at the very beginning of the season, I didn't see a glimmer of hope this year.

I liked seeing him take that forceful drive to the basket for a dunk. That one play should be reinforced. He can do it!!!

lotusland
02-25-2014, 07:47 AM
P&R? Pass and rebound? Pound and rebound? Puke and Retch? I dunno? Little help? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

I was thinking put back and rebound but the order of operations is inverted.

jv001
02-25-2014, 07:53 AM
Actually, he missed them both, my "twin-city" friend. His difficulty from the free throw line (4-15 on the year) is an obstacle to late game minutes, I'm afraid.

I will say that Marshall has been a great help to the team and exceeded my expectations; I didn't see how he could contribute, but I'm happy to have been wrong. He provides size and a physical presence down low, with an ability to block shots, alter shots, grab rebounds, and get some decisive dunks.

I told you roy that my mind ain't what it used to be :cool: Marshall gives us a physical presence that we were lacking earlier in the year. Great to have him now at crunch time. As for his free throw woes, he has decent shooting form. I guess it's a confidence thing. Have a great day. GoDuke!

CameronBlue
02-25-2014, 08:05 AM
P&R? Ahh, maybe Pick & Roll.

Boeheim's specialty....and that's all we'll say about THAT.

Troublemaker
02-25-2014, 08:38 AM
The front page linked the N&O article (http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/02/24/3651602/mike-krzyzewski-on-marshall-plumlee.html) about Marshall. Here is the Herald-Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com/sports/colleges/x112096869/Another-Plumlee-emerging-for-Duke) article in addition.

Some selected quotes from both:


Hes huge going forward for us, Krzyzewski said Monday.


Hes a different player than his brothers, Krzyzewski said of Marshall. Hes a center. Mason and Miles played both positions, but Marshall wants to be a center, a protector of the basket. He wants to be a center, and thats what he is. Hes athletic, though all three Plumlee brothers are excellent athletes. Its taken Marshall some time to get back to that athleticism.


We feel that hes running and being the athlete he was before, about 17 months ago, right before he was injured at the start of last season. He is a good player, and hes going to be a really good player."




Plumlee can play an integral role off the bench as Duke plays its last three ACC regular-season games before gearing up for the postseason.


He said his mental approach has helped him physically.


A little patience, Plumlee said. Its taken me a little too long to figure out how to show a little patience. But its paying off and the coaching staff has been great working with me and helping develop me. And my teammates have been really supportive. I feel more comfortable in my role now than ever, and my teammates are just incredibly supportive. If we each play our part and really play together, we can be a really tough team.

MCFinARL
02-25-2014, 09:08 AM
It would be all too human for our players, especially the young guys, to kind of take a deep breath and relax after a rough stretch of games, as much as the coaches will be on them not to do so. I hope Duke comes out like a fireball in this game, but I could also envision a bad 1st half happening. That's as far as it would go, though. Some yelling at halftime, and Duke should blow them out in the 2nd half under that scenario.

What I'll be looking for: fighting the urge to relax and therefore dominating from the tip, beating VaTech on the boards, and shooting well from outside.


Cook and Dawkins presumably would fill that role.

I think an early line change might be a nice antidote for any emotional letdown. It gets a few guys in who haven't been playing much, and they can come in and just go all-out for a few minutes. Energy is contagious, and if we do come out flat, the bench may be able to help us get cranked up.

Also - I think there's some value in getting Hairston and Jones a few minutes just to help keep them fresh. This may be our last chance to do so for some time. I'd hate to see a scenario where, for example, MP3 gets hurt during the NCAAT and we need minutes from Hairston, but he hasn't gotten any in a month.

Yes--this does have some potential to be an emotional letdown game, so why not give some guys who are probably pretty hungry for playing time right now--Jones, Hairston, Dawkins (who has been playing a lot more than the other two, but less than he was a few weeks ago), maybe even Semi--an opportunity to get in some additional time? They are likely to be pretty up for the chance. And as you point out, Matches, Hairston and Jones are players we may need down the road in case of injury (God forbid) or foul trouble.

And for Hairston, this may be his last chance to see any extended minutes in Cameron. He has been such a devoted, hardworking spirit leader for Duke over his four years, and game conditions may dictate that he not get much more than a token appearance on senior night.

jv001
02-25-2014, 09:17 AM
Yes--this does have some potential to be an emotional letdown game, so why not give some guys who are probably pretty hungry for playing time right now--Jones, Hairston, Dawkins (who has been playing a lot more than the other two, but less than he was a few weeks ago), maybe even Semi--an opportunity to get in some additional time? They are likely to be pretty up for the chance. And as you point out, Matches, Hairston and Jones are players we may need down the road in case of injury (God forbid) or foul trouble.

And for Hairston, this may be his last chance to see any extended minutes in Cameron. He has been such a devoted, hardworking spirit leader for Duke over his four years, and game conditions may dictate that he not get much more than a token appearance on senior night.

I can't praise Josh enough for his time at Duke. Especially this year as he's seen his playing time reduced to garbage minutes and he has still been a good leader by showing his support for his teammates. What a great young man. GoDuke!

Saratoga2
02-25-2014, 09:37 AM
I can't praise Josh enough for his time at Duke. Especially this year as he's seen his playing time reduced to garbage minutes and he has still been a good leader by showing his support for his teammates. What a great young man. GoDuke!

I agree that Josh has been a model player at Duke and deserves our thanks for his efforts. That said, clearly Marshall is needed due to his size. I also think it would be a mistake not to use Semi in some of the upcoming games. Why? He is about the same size as Josh but is more athletic by far. He also has shown a shot from the foul line and from outside. I realize it is a small sample size, but he could be a big part of our future and I hate to see him in someone else's uniform in the coming years.

CDu
02-25-2014, 09:39 AM
I can't praise Josh enough for his time at Duke. Especially this year as he's seen his playing time reduced to garbage minutes and he has still been a good leader by showing his support for his teammates. What a great young man. GoDuke!

A part of me feels bad for Hairston. He got caught behind Kelly and the Plumlees early in his career. Then, in his senior year, he was overtaken by Jefferson and now the last of the Plumlees. I'm not sure quite what happened to him as he went from a top-30 recruit with tons of athleticism to a guy who just couldn't find his way onto the floor consistently.

That being said, I do hope he gets the start in the UNC game. He's been a great teammate and has really seemed to love his time at Duke (based on his interactions with the crowd over his four years). He deserves to get to hear the roar of the crowd during his final home game.

MCFinARL
02-25-2014, 10:14 AM
A part of me feels bad for Hairston. He got caught behind Kelly and the Plumlees early in his career. Then, in his senior year, he was overtaken by Jefferson and now the last of the Plumlees. I'm not sure quite what happened to him as he went from a top-30 recruit with tons of athleticism to a guy who just couldn't find his way onto the floor consistently.

That being said, I do hope he gets the start in the UNC game. He's been a great teammate and has really seemed to love his time at Duke (based on his interactions with the crowd over his four years). He deserves to get to hear the roar of the crowd during his final home game.

Me too. Coach K doesn't always start seniors on their senior night--but my fingers are crossed. I'd like to see Josh, Tyler and Andre all starting, at least for a minute or two, and Todd getting in the game at least briefly at some point.

Re what happened, is it possible Josh's skill set and size matched up better in high school than in college, where he often seems undersized compared to the people he is matched up against? (I realize that isn't a complete explanation, just a thought.) It hasn't helped that he worked hard to make himself really good at a skill--taking charges--that has been devalued by rule changes in his senior year.

flyingdutchdevil
02-25-2014, 10:25 AM
Me too. Coach K doesn't always start seniors on their senior night--but my fingers are crossed. I'd like to see Josh, Tyler and Andre all starting, at least for a minute or two, and Todd getting in the game at least briefly at some point.

Re what happened, is it possible Josh's skill set and size matched up better in high school than in college, where he often seems undersized compared to the people he is matched up against? (I realize that isn't a complete explanation, just a thought.) It hasn't helped that he worked hard to make himself really good at a skill--taking charges--that has been devalued by rule changes in his senior year.

Josh is an interesting player, and a player who may have been overvalued in high school. He is a strong dude - between his ability to box out and his ability to stand up to charges, his body is clearly college ready.

Unfortunately for Josh, his size is not good for college. He can only play the 4 and the 5, and his jump shot is so suspect to play the 4 effectively. He is listed at 6'8", but he is more like 6'7" (and maybe even 6'6"). Furthermore, Josh doesn't have a great wingspan nor does he have great hops. Between his size, his wingspan, and his hops, this makes Hairston incredibly undersized to play the post. His gluteus maximus is great for boxing out, and he clearly understands positioning, but this skill set doesn't really work when rebounding is the team's weakness (which it was in the beginning of the year).

If Josh had a reliable jump shot, I think his evolution as a Duke basketball player would have been different.

I too would like to see him play a few minutes tonight, but his value to the team during games isn't as impactful as it was when Amile and MP3 weren't ready (and both these players are ready now).

CDu
02-25-2014, 10:32 AM
Re what happened, is it possible Josh's skill set and size matched up better in high school than in college, where he often seems undersized compared to the people he is matched up against? (I realize that isn't a complete explanation, just a thought.) It hasn't helped that he worked hard to make himself really good at a skill--taking charges--that has been devalued by rule changes in his senior year.

I think that his size is a big part of it. His height allowed him to be effect at the high school level, but not at the college level. And somewhere along the way, he got less quick and "springy" too (probably a result of gaining weight to try to bang at the college level). The combination of being undersized height-wise and no longer able to offset it with athleticism/skill became a problem for him.

I will say that the one aspect of the game that I liked least in Hairston's game was his constant effort to try to draw a charge. I'm actually quite happy with the rules change this year because I HATED the fact that defenders were getting rewarded for jumping in at the last second and undercutting an offensive player after he'd committed to the takeoff rather than trying to play actual defense. I think the charge is a legitimate call that needs to exist in the game (you can't just barrel over a player who has established his defensive position), but it was getting called WAY too frequently and incorrectly. Hairston is/was sort of the poster-child for the rule change being needed.

I think Hairston's proficiency for drawing charges had been a bit overstated. Yes, he drew lots of charges. But that is simply because he tries to draw a charge at virtually every possible opportunity. He got tons of blocking fouls as a result of this habit. As an example, it's not impressive to score 25 points if it takes 45 attempts to get those points. And as you note, the rules change has highlighted this, as Hairston is now drawing even fewer charges relative to blocking fouls.

I wonder what might have happened for Hairston if he'd stayed at about 210 instead of bulking up to 230+. Could he have maintained his springiness and been able to compensate for the lack of height with athleticism? It's just unfortunate. At least he's gotten to be on some very good teams, and participate in one of the best atmospheres in college basketball, and will presumably wind up with a very nice degree for his efforts. But I can't help but wonder what might have been.

Brockt10
02-25-2014, 10:43 AM
Just found out I am going to this game!! It will be my first duke game at Cameron so they better not let me down.

nocilla
02-25-2014, 10:56 AM
Me too. Coach K doesn't always start seniors on their senior night--but my fingers are crossed.

I don't remember any seniors not starting. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention though. I remember a walk-on grad student (Jordan Davidson?) not starting a couple years ago, but his situation was odd in that he wasn't on the active roster the year before. And he did play in the game. (82-50)
But I don't remember any scholarship seniors not starting. Am I wrong?

MCFinARL
02-25-2014, 12:09 PM
I don't remember any seniors not starting. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention though. I remember a walk-on grad student (Jordan Davidson?) not starting a couple years ago, but his situation was odd in that he wasn't on the active roster the year before. And he did play in the game. (82-50)
But I don't remember any scholarship seniors not starting. Am I wrong?

Not sure--I may have been thinking of walk-ons. But let me do some quick research.

Kedsy
02-25-2014, 12:14 PM
I don't remember any seniors not starting. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention though. I remember a walk-on grad student (Jordan Davidson?) not starting a couple years ago, but his situation was odd in that he wasn't on the active roster the year before. And he did play in the game. (82-50)
But I don't remember any scholarship seniors not starting. Am I wrong?

It's unusual for Duke to have seniors who don't start anyway. Back in 2009, Greg Paulus and Dave McClure were senior non-starters and both started on senior day. Same for Lee Melchionni in 2006 and Reggie Love in 2005 and Nick Horvath in 2004 and Matt Christensen in 2002 and Taymon Domzalski in 1999. Andre Buckner did *not* start in 2003.

I went back 15 years and no senior walk-on has ever started for Duke on senior day, other than Reggie Love who wasn't really a walk-on. A lot of times they play a minute, sometimes they don't even get to do that.

Matches
02-25-2014, 12:15 PM
I don't remember any seniors not starting. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention though. I remember a walk-on grad student (Jordan Davidson?) not starting a couple years ago, but his situation was odd in that he wasn't on the active roster the year before. And he did play in the game. (82-50)
But I don't remember any scholarship seniors not starting. Am I wrong?

Matt Christensen?

Kedsy
02-25-2014, 12:20 PM
Matt Christensen?

As I said in the post above, Matt Christensen did start his senior game. The only recruited scholarship player I could find going back 15 years who didn't start senior day was Andre Buckner.

MCFinARL
02-25-2014, 12:39 PM
I don't remember any seniors not starting. Maybe I just wasn't paying attention though. I remember a walk-on grad student (Jordan Davidson?) not starting a couple years ago, but his situation was odd in that he wasn't on the active roster the year before. And he did play in the game. (82-50)
But I don't remember any scholarship seniors not starting. Am I wrong?

Took too long editing my previous post and was booted, so I will re-answer. I did a little research, back to 2008, and you are right--the seniors who did not start were all walk-ons--Davidson in 2010 and Casey Peters in 2011, plus Todd Zafirovski last year, although they may already have known that he was planning to come back this season.

During these years, all of the seniors who did start played at least 20 minutes in the game--except Lance Thomas, who fouled out of the game in 2010 after 16 minutes. Josh is unlikely to see 20 minutes against UNC, and minutes for Tyler and Andre will depend on a lot of factors that can't necessarily be predicted in advance, though based on season averages, Tyler would just make it and Andre would not. But there is no reason to assume Josh (a team captain), Andre, and Tyler (who has been starting a lot anyway) won't all start on Senior Night unless/until it happens.

MCFinARL
02-25-2014, 12:41 PM
As I said in the post above, Matt Christensen did start his senior game. The only recruited scholarship player I could find going back 15 years who didn't start senior day was Andre Buckner.

Oh, Kedsy, I should have known you would be way ahead of me. I couldn't manage to edit a post with 6 years' of data in the time you analyzed 15. Sigh....

Kedsy
02-25-2014, 01:19 PM
During these years, all of the seniors who did start played at least 20 minutes in the game--except Lance Thomas, who fouled out of the game in 2010 after 16 minutes.

This becomes less true the further back you go:

MINUTES ON SENIOR NIGHT BY SENIORS WHO DIDN'T USUALLY START:

2009 Greg Paulus: 20 (average minutes for season** = 15.6)
2009 Dave McClure: 20 (15.4)
2006 Lee Melchionni: 27 (19.9)
2005 Reggie Love: 16 (6.5)
2004 Nick Horvath: 5 (5.9)
2003 Andre Buckner*: 4 (1.1)
2002 Matt Christensen: 6 (3.8)
1999 Taymon Domzalski: 12 (7.6)

* -- didn't start
** -- includes DNPs as 0 minutes when calculating averages


Oh, Kedsy, I should have known you would be way ahead of me. I couldn't manage to edit a post with 6 years' of data in the time you analyzed 15. Sigh....

;)

roywhite
02-25-2014, 01:43 PM
Oh, Kedsy, I should have known you would be way ahead of me. I couldn't manage to edit a post with 6 years' of data in the time you analyzed 15. Sigh....

Don't feel bad. It should probably be revealed that Kedsy is not really one individual; it is actually a group of young analytical geeks who have taken an interest in basketball.

Kedsy is merely an acronym for this group of: Knowledgeable, Extremely Devoted to Stats Youngsters.

;)

MCFinARL
02-25-2014, 02:25 PM
Don't feel bad. It should probably be revealed that Kedsy is not really one individual; it is actually a group of young analytical geeks who have taken an interest in basketball.

Kedsy is merely an acronym for this group of: Knowledgeable, Extremely Devoted to Stats Youngsters.

;)

Thanks! I feel much better now. (Can't spork you.) :D

jv001
02-25-2014, 03:54 PM
I don't know if Bob has already posted this, if so, I'm sorry. Duke is favored by 20.5 points. That's a lot but if we come to play, we'll cover. GoDuke!

CDu
02-25-2014, 04:16 PM
I don't know if Bob has already posted this, if so, I'm sorry. Duke is favored by 20.5 points. That's a lot but if we come to play, we'll cover. GoDuke!

Yeah, VT is extremely bad. Like, one of the 4 or 5 worst teams among the BCS schools. We're playing them at home, so we don't have to worry about crowd effects (VT fans can get pretty "rowdy" in their place) working against us. This game should not be at all close.

MCFinARL
02-25-2014, 04:27 PM
Yeah, VT is extremely bad. Like, one of the 4 or 5 worst teams among the BCS schools. We're playing them at home, so we don't have to worry about crowd effects (VT fans can get pretty "rowdy" in their place) working against us. This game should not be at all close.

Operative word, "should." Put another way, that's why they play the games. I'm hopeful this one will indeed go as it should but I'm not counting any chickens.

riverside6
02-25-2014, 06:45 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/VT, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=20133

CLW
02-25-2014, 06:54 PM
Cook still coming off the bench while Thornton starts at the 1.

jv001
02-25-2014, 07:00 PM
Cook still coming off the bench while Thornton starts at the 1.

Hope we don't see the line change, but I hope we see a lot of the bench. GoDuke!

CLW
02-25-2014, 07:11 PM
Nice start the Hokies look BAD they are having problems getting into anything resembling an offense right now.

devilnfla
02-25-2014, 07:18 PM
So far the only negative is having to listen to Len Elmore.

BlueandWhite
02-25-2014, 07:25 PM
Nice start the Hokies look BAD they are having problems getting into anything resembling an offense right now.

Yikes, VPI is terrible on offense...

dukies_daughter
02-25-2014, 07:26 PM
Anybody else offended by the Black History Month commercial proclaiming us to all be "red, white, and carolina blue"? blech! No complaints about the game so far, tho :-)

dairedevil
02-25-2014, 07:27 PM
Let's hope that Duke can use this to sharpen their play, and not get dragged down to VT's level on offense.

CLW
02-25-2014, 07:31 PM
was hoping this would help our D ratings in kenpom so i took a look and Tech is the 267th "best" offense in college basketball. WOW that's bad.

devilnfla
02-25-2014, 07:31 PM
To many 3's. Need to keep pounding it down low with Jabari and Jefferson.

dairedevil
02-25-2014, 07:35 PM
I always feel good when we score 20 points by the 10:00 minute mark :)

18258
02-25-2014, 07:35 PM
here comes the 5 min scoring drought, every game, every time

devilnfla
02-25-2014, 07:37 PM
Josh Hairston.....smh.

CLW
02-25-2014, 07:37 PM
First time we've seen Josh in several games now and he air balls a 15 foot jump shot. It's just not a good year for Josh feel bad for the kid.

jipops
02-25-2014, 07:48 PM
1st half was a tale of two halves

dairedevil
02-25-2014, 07:49 PM
What I was afraid of...lackadaisical on defense, sloppy on offense... and VT has a run. sigh.

CLW
02-25-2014, 07:50 PM
17/36 of our shots are 3s. There is simply no reason for that as Va Tech's 2-3 zone isn't that tough to get the ball in the paint.

concerning the shots haven't been falling for quite some time now. perhaps its fatigue. perhaps we are in a bit of a slump.

Saratoga2
02-25-2014, 07:52 PM
Andre is a very good shooter and yet he is getting no burn. Is something physically wrong with Andre or is something else going on?

jwillfan
02-25-2014, 08:05 PM
No love for Len Elmore but his analysis is spot on

ncexnyc
02-25-2014, 08:07 PM
Great start bad finish. I get ready to leave for lunch and the score is 24-5. I return at the half and it's 32-20. I see that what was once a dominate rebounding margin has now become only a slight advantage. Hopefully we can come out with some focus and maintain it for the last 2o minutes.

JMarley50
02-25-2014, 08:08 PM
Just checking to see if anyone else caught the fact that Duke is a little three happy??

kshepinthehouse
02-25-2014, 08:08 PM
It feels like we consistently let teams back in the game no matter who we are playing.

slower
02-25-2014, 08:09 PM
Checked the score online and it was 24-5. Now it's 34-27. SO glad not to be watching this one live. This team, man - they will rip your heart out. So erratic - so freaking erratic.

ncexnyc
02-25-2014, 08:12 PM
Looks like they didn't read my post concerning focus as they've given up 3 consecutive lay-ups and Coach K promptly calls a TO.

JMarley50
02-25-2014, 08:13 PM
Looks like they didn't read my post concerning focus as they've given up 3 consecutive lay-ups and Coach K promptly calls a TO.

"Duke gave up the open lay ups because they shoot too many 3's" - Len Elmore

jwillfan
02-25-2014, 08:14 PM
Long time no Dre!

devilnfla
02-25-2014, 08:17 PM
Glad to see Dre knock one down. I believe we will go a long way if he can get and stay hot.

ncexnyc
02-25-2014, 08:26 PM
I do like seeing our assist total so far tonight.

jwillfan
02-25-2014, 08:26 PM
Not our best but should be good enough

dairedevil
02-25-2014, 08:28 PM
Hood has found a nice sweet spot to hang out in the middle of that zone.

GGLC
02-25-2014, 08:32 PM
Sloppy against a terrible team.

Kjeffrey
02-25-2014, 08:33 PM
Another good game for Marshall. Rasheed and Hood are both having great games. Dre's shot is off and Jabari seems uncertain on offense. BTW, I am just wondering how Len Elmore feels about Duke's three pointers.

Ky-Dukie
02-25-2014, 08:35 PM
Seems like a good time to give Matt and Semi some good minutes.

JayBean
02-25-2014, 08:35 PM
As long as we make it to the end with a lead, I'm fine with that. The players have to be mentally tired and could probably use the break they are going to get.

oakvillebluedevil
02-25-2014, 08:37 PM
The Len Elmore Index might be the least meaningful statistic in the history of college basketball.

ncexnyc
02-25-2014, 08:41 PM
Not a very impressive stat line from Quinn tonight. Anyone care to fill me in.

jwillfan
02-25-2014, 08:42 PM
What's up with Matt Jones?

Kjeffrey
02-25-2014, 08:43 PM
Why are the starters still in the game?

JMarley50
02-25-2014, 08:45 PM
I'm just impressed with Elmore's ability to never give Duke a compliment. If Duke scores, its because VT's defense was bad. If Duke gets a stop, its because VT's offense was bad. If VT scores, its not because they made a good play, but because Duke's D was bad. Its downright comical.

GGLC
02-25-2014, 08:45 PM
Not happy with our rotation depth this game at all.