Officiating discussion

[-jk]

I enjoy looking at officiating.com (http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/) for a generally unbiased look at interesting games. ("Generally" because they are mostly HS refs and often have rooting interests in NCAA games.) I tend to learn a lot about what goes into reffing a game.

They took a look at last night's game here (http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97351-video-request-syracuse-vs-duke-video.html).

It's a nice breakdown of several plays, with support of the charge call.

-jk

[MChambers]

Nice thread. Thanks for posting it. Hard to believe there is a place where officiating is discussed calmly, rationally, and dispassionately.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I am amazed by how much concern there is over the charge on this board. Can you imagine if it had gone against us? My take was a 50/50 judgment call that went our way. Suspenseful and dramatic because of the time left, but rather unremarkable otherwise.

[MarkD83]

After many years of hearing complaints about officiating bias (for or against), the approach that works best for me is this.

If a team is complaining about the officiating it was because they were being frustrated by the other teams defense. It also means that they will lose again because they won't face the reality that they need to make adjustments.

Ennis and Cooney were 3-18 and were totally taken out of their game. There is the difference in the game.

[FerryFor50]

This was my favorite:


I watched this game with a room full of duke haters.

I commented after the Parker block/and1 that I thought it was a poor call, clearly a PC. I also educated the room on Ayers' credentials and how much I respected him.

As soon as the last PC was called, while they were all going crazy and proclaiming how biased the calls are always at Cameron indoor, I was watching the replays and how the crew handled the rabies infected coach. I also thought they did a remarkable job handling him, the assistants, and the players. I also thought immediately, and after seeing all the replays, that it was a correct PC call.

Then DickieV started his rant, and of course everybody in the room started with the "let the players decide the game" nonsense, one of my pet peeves. Before bilas even said one word, I was trying to convey the same argument: no matter what the call is, running out onto the court like that will get you ejected just about anywhere and 4 free throws will definitely put you out of the game.

I live in Kentucky, they're all still butt hurt about Christian lakener (sp?) Hitting that one shot :P

[nocilla]

I haven't read the post game thread so this may have been mentioned already, but I think given the fake offensive fouls Fair drew in the first game to foul out Parker and Jefferson, plus the missed foul on Hood's dunk, this is just karma coming back. Whether or not the charge in this game was correct, Duke was due a little benefit of the doubt. Personally I think the call was close enough that you could argue either way which means it comes down to the officials judgement which he had to make quickly after a bang bang play. Had the call gone the other way I think we would have made a dramatic game winning play in those last 10 seconds fueled by a great Cameron crowd. So really, the ref robbed us of another memorable, dramatic game winning shot. Oh well, I guess I'll get over it. :p

[tbyers11]

I haven't read the post game thread so this may have been mentioned already, but I think given the fake offensive fouls Fair drew in the first game to foul out Parker and Jefferson, plus the missed foul on Hood's dunk, this is just karma coming back. Whether or not the charge in this game was correct, Duke was due a little benefit of the doubt. Personally I think the call was close enough that you could argue either way which means it comes down to the officials judgement which he had to make quickly after a bang bang play. Had the call gone the other way I think we would have made a dramatic game winning play in those last 10 seconds fueled by a great Cameron crowd. So really, the ref robbed us of another memorable, dramatic game winning shot. Oh well, I guess I'll get over it. :p

That was Christmas not Fair on all three of the plays from the first game. But otherwise I agree on the karmic retribution angle

[wavedukefan70s]

His feet look out of bounds when he catches the pass to start the drive.you can see it on the second or third camera angle switch in the video.the side view .looks like his right heel cones down out of bounds .

[ice-9]

I enjoy looking at officiating.com (http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/) for a generally unbiased look at interesting games. ("Generally" because they are mostly HS refs and often have rooting interests in NCAA games.) I tend to learn a lot about what goes into reffing a game.

They took a look at last night's game here (http://forum.officiating.com/basketball/97351-video-request-syracuse-vs-duke-video.html).

It's a nice breakdown of several plays, with support of the charge call.

-jk


Unfortunately the forum also thought the no call on Rodney's dunk attempt in the first game was correct! I suppose either way it's karmic balance.

[JasonEvans]

His feet look out of bounds when he catches the pass to start the drive.you can see it on the second or third camera angle switch in the video.the side view .looks like his right heel cones down out of bounds .

Refs ain't perfect. Duke haters need to learn to deal with it. We certainly have been on the short end of more than a few tough calls this year.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhH_Ic5IgAAWnoH.jpg:large

[brevity]

Hard to believe there is a place where officiating is discussed calmly, rationally, and dispassionately.

Agreed. Makes me wonder, though. If you start a discussion board dedicated to the subject of officiating, who moderates it?

[weezie]

Can you imagine if it had gone against us?

Can you imagine if Karl had been the ref? :eek:

Agreed, that officiating website is a keeper.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Agreed. Makes me wonder, though. If you start a discussion board dedicated to the subject of officiating, who moderates it?
Are you Steven Wright?

[wavedukefan70s]

Refs ain't perfect. Duke haters need to learn to deal with it. We certainly have been on the short end of more than a few tough calls this year.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhH_Ic5IgAAWnoH.jpg:large

I know.i was just alluding to the fact they have no argument.technically the drive should have never happened.
It's only a strike if the ump calls it one.

[duke96]

I know.i was just alluding to the fact they have no argument.technically the drive should have never happened.
It's only a strike if the ump calls it one.

Is anyone here saying they think either heel was unquestionably down? I haven't seen an image that is unequivocal.

[FerryFor50]

Is anyone here saying they think either heel was unquestionably down? I haven't seen an image that is unequivocal.

I think the out of bounds play was more definitive than the notion of a blocking foul. ;)

[Sluggo]

I found the officiating site very interesting. Thanks for posting it. I always wonder if being a Duke fan for 20+ years has left me biased or can I still identify a questionable call when I see it. I think this year has been really confusing and the best way for me to explain it is that, when watching a game, I often anticipate the call incorrectly when the whistle is blown. I think that's the key for players and fans, to have consistency and to know what to expect from game to game. The players especially need that so they can adjust accordingly. I don't think we are there yet.

[Newton_14]

Refs ain't perfect. Duke haters need to learn to deal with it. We certainly have been on the short end of more than a few tough calls this year.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhH_Ic5IgAAWnoH.jpg:large

Thanks for the pic Jason. The disappointing part the pic clearly shows? Roger Ayers is not even looking at Fair's feet. He eyes are on Fair's upper body. Really bad mistake there on Ayer's part and he was the one ref that did not kill us with bad calls last night. He did have one bad call that went against us, but outside of that and the no look here, the other two ref's were responsible for all of the iffy or downright terrible calls that went against us until the infamous block/charge at the end. Jamie Luckie was downright terrible all night long. One of the worst games I have ever seen him have to be honest, which says a lot.

[ice-9]

Wow, ESPN has a story up backing the charge call:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10506018/referees-made-right-call-end-syracuse-orange-duke-blue-devils-game-official-says

The headline reads as "Source: Refs made right call" even though the article itself says it's not a consensus opinion.

[FerryFor50]

Lol... They do know what "source" means, right?