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JBDuke
02-22-2014, 08:04 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

PSurprise
02-22-2014, 08:06 PM
Didn't see that ending coming

kAzE
02-22-2014, 08:06 PM
I guess the "it" that we were were missing against UNC was Jim Boeheim going ballistic. Thanks Boeheim!

PSurprise
02-22-2014, 08:07 PM
MoM: Boeheim. In all seriousness, very good effort by all tonight

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:07 PM
Whew! That was stressful. Thank you Mr. Boeheim for finishing your team off!

fuse
02-22-2014, 08:08 PM
Not the ending I wanted to see. Too much respect for Boeheim.
Glad we won, we earned a tough one.

vick
02-22-2014, 08:09 PM
On TV, it sounded like one of the best crowds I've heard (I could have done without one of the chants at Gbinije, but even so).

kAzE
02-22-2014, 08:10 PM
On TV, it sounded like one of the best crowds I've heard (I could have done without one of the chants at Gbinije, but even so).

Eh . . . "we don't miss you" is pretty innocent. Was there another one? I thought that was fair game.

dukelifer
02-22-2014, 08:10 PM
Sometimes you're the windshield and sometimes you're the bug- at least in these games against Syracuse. Quite an ending.

brevity
02-22-2014, 08:10 PM
Two amazing rebounds in the last minute. Jabari's defensive rebound in that sea of orange, and Boeheim's jacket bouncing back onto his shoulders.

ChrisP
02-22-2014, 08:10 PM
I'm sorry, but what in the he double hockey sticks was Jay Bilas talking about regarding the charge Hood took at the end being "questionable"??? His feet were set, he was outside the protected circle area. Come ON JAY!!!

Glad we won, sorry it ended the way it did and really not super happy with the FT shooting or decision making on offense in the last 4 minutes or so. But, a win is a win and I'm happy for that. Really proud of our guys' effort tonight. Big props to Jabari after a poor start and MAJOR kudos to MP3 and Hood for great games :cool:

grossbus
02-22-2014, 08:10 PM
Foul shooting. Holy smokes.

bbosbbos
02-22-2014, 08:10 PM
I think the game plan in the 2nd half of last game and this one is questionable, especially this one. We are very weak against zone. This time their players have a lot of fouls but we do not take advantage of that.

Personally I think this is a poor game although I love a win.

CR9
02-22-2014, 08:10 PM
My cynicism paid off. I felt they'd win every game bar this one.

gwlaw99
02-22-2014, 08:11 PM
Just did a frame by frame replay and Hood's feet were set before Fair's front foot came down so definitely before he started his upward motion

TKG
02-22-2014, 08:11 PM
Whew! That was stressful. Thank you Mr. Boeheim for finishing your team off!

K should thank Boeheim for saving him (K) from the awful, awful decision to start taking the air out of the ball with more than 4 minutes to go. Boeheim won the game for us.

Faison1
02-22-2014, 08:11 PM
What a shame of an ending.

Definitely felt the charge call was better than questionable in our favor. But that's what they'll be talking about. Not how tough or good the game was, but what kind of call made Boeheim go nuts.

nyesq83
02-22-2014, 08:11 PM
He would get double T'd.

Or he was laying the groundwork for the future.

bbosbbos
02-22-2014, 08:12 PM
Is it possible this is due to the tight schedule?


Foul shooting. Holy smokes.

Emerrick
02-22-2014, 08:12 PM
Not the ending I wanted to see. Too much respect for Boeheim.
Glad we won, we earned a tough one.

Agreed. Bad ending, great win. We needed this one! I need a Valium now....

rocketeli
02-22-2014, 08:12 PM
Wild ending. Dickie V actually said a wise thing--the charge call didn't end the game, Jim Boeheim did. I know a lot of DBR posters like JB because he basks in the aura of working on the national team for K, but I've always thought he was a total tool, and this kinda confirms my thinking. What an idiot. Your team is only down two, the other team is shooting about 50% from the foul line for the game, there are 10 seconds left, a block-charge doesn't go your way, why not pitch a temper tantrum and toss the whole game away?

nyesq83
02-22-2014, 08:13 PM
Get over it. We won, Survive and Advance.

18258
02-22-2014, 08:13 PM
need to practice free throws, look like unx out there tonight

arnie
02-22-2014, 08:13 PM
On TV, it sounded like one of the best crowds I've heard (I could have done without one of the chants at Gbinije, but even so).

Been nice if Bilas could have admitted it might be a charge; however, the win's great. The ref gas to call a T, not sure what else Boeheim said, but must gave been classic.

vick
02-22-2014, 08:14 PM
Eh . . . "we don't miss you" is pretty innocent. Was there another one? I thought that was fair game.

That's the one. And it's not terrible or anything, but I do miss him--I liked him! Like I said, it's a small quibble on what sounded like a tremendous crowd tonight (I'll wait for the people at the game to post, but I'll be they agree about the volume).

#1Duke
02-22-2014, 08:14 PM
I'm sorry, but what in the he double hockey sticks was Jay Bilas talking about regarding the charge Hood took at the end being "questionable"??? His feet were set, he was outside the protected circle area. Come ON JAY!!!

Glad we won, sorry it ended the way it did and really not super happy with the FT shooting or decision making on offense in the last 4 minutes or so. But, a win is a win and I'm happy for that. Really proud of our guys' effort tonight. Big props to Jabari after a poor start and MAJOR kudos to MP3 and Hood for great games :cool:

They were probably seeing what I saw. The defender also has to be set and in place BEFORE the shooter makes his move and leaves his feet.

We were lucky. It should have been an "and one" and a tie game at that point.

NO complaints about the refs tonight!!

ice-9
02-22-2014, 08:15 PM
Boheim T made it one of the most memorable games in recent history!

I wish Parker had the ball more often -- he was awesome tonight and the offense didn't flow through him enough.

We should have swung to the open corner three more, but I'm guessing we were worried about the trap.

Free throw shooting = UGH.

Quinn could have done a better job running the offense when we went to stall ball. The correct strategy; just bad execution.

We played very, very good defense! Lots will be said about Boheim's T and our offense (good or bad), but the real key to the game was our D and it was fantastic tonight.

Benefited from some favorable calls that we might not have had in other arenas, but hey we're due after Cuse and UNC!

Overall, a good game and a nice bounce back from two days ago.

porkpa
02-22-2014, 08:15 PM
Unless we learn to start shooting fouls we aren't going very far.

Dukehky
02-22-2014, 08:15 PM
Boeheim's ejection will make the media blow that call up like crazy. It looked like a charge to me, and regardless, it was justifiable. Rodney's dunk attempt at Cuse was not a justifiable no call.

What a stupid move by the second winningest coach of all time. We played pretty stupidly in the last 4 minutes, but hey, get in where you can. Jabs has to be stronger with the ball, but we also can't stop going to he and Rodney at the high post, they could not stop it.

Atlanta Duke
02-22-2014, 08:15 PM
Seth Davis@SethDavisHoops

I think someone should launch the Jim Boeheim Press Conference Channel:)

https://twitter.com/SethDavisHoops

DevilYouthCoach
02-22-2014, 08:16 PM
Whew! That was stressful. Thank you Mr. Boeheim for finishing your team off!


I can't imagine a better ending! I have never ever liked Jim Boeheim a bit. He seems like the kind of guy who would knife you in the back if he had the chance. I rather like the Syracuse players (Christmas excepted), but I cannot abide their coach.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-22-2014, 08:16 PM
Tell you what that was... Boeheim's guilt from the first game boiling over. He couldn't stand it anymore and found the oppty to leave no doubt about the win for Duke.

Channing
02-22-2014, 08:16 PM
Second game in a row foul shooting has been really bad. Another game of poor shooting. I literally yelled at my tv when we went stall ball and went with the cook/sheed back and forth pass offense. Still found a way to win.

Our guys seem to get stripped a lot, especially sheed. Also seems to fall down. A lot.

Getting the ball to hood at the ft line worked great. Makes perfect sense he wouldn't get a touch there for the last 8 minutes.

Plum lee was a baller tonight. Whole different gear. Already may be one of the best hedgers we've seen.

Brace for the duke gets all the calls crowd, they'll be out in force. Refs were awful. First ha
F really favored us I thought. Second half really favored us. Second half remains fresh in people's mind.

sporthenry
02-22-2014, 08:17 PM
They were probably seeing what I saw. The defender also has to be set and in place BEFORE the shooter makes his move and leaves his feet.

We were lucky. It should have been an "and one" and a tie game at that point.

NO complaints about the refs tonight!!

After a game in which saw Hood get a charge against him when a guy was less set or Parker get an offensive foul call while he was in the air. I'm okay with the questionable call. I don't think it was that different than the Jabari 3 point play on the other side but that is what can happen when you just barrel into guys willy nilly. Sometimes the calls won't go your way.

Reffing has been absolutely atrocious the last two games. Tonight, Duke got the benefit they didn't get Thursday.

ChrisP
02-22-2014, 08:17 PM
They were probably seeing what I saw. The defender also has to be set and in place BEFORE the shooter makes his move and leaves his feet.

We were lucky. It should have been an "and one" and a tie game at that point.

NO complaints about the refs tonight!!

No, it shouldn't have. Rodney's feet WERE set. Please watch it again.

Also, no complaints??? Really??? The intentional on Dawkins? Grant clearly fouling at least twice at the rim late in the game with no calls??? REALLY???

NashvilleDevil
02-22-2014, 08:17 PM
I think the game plan in the 2nd half of last game and this one is questionable, especially this one. We are very weak against zone. This time their players have a lot of fouls but we do not take advantage of that.

Personally I think this is a poor game although I love a win.

Thanks for being so positive after a huge win and after a week which saw them go 3-1

fuse
02-22-2014, 08:17 PM
On TV, it sounded like one of the best crowds I've heard (I could have done without one of the chants at Gbinije, but even so).

Plus infinity on this. Seeing "gbinije still doesn't play" on twitter and hearing "we don't miss you" on TV were both unwarranted. That said, I'll second on a TV the crowd seemed loud and animated - well done Crazies!

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:17 PM
Wild ending. Dickie V actually said a wise thing--the charge call didn't end the game, Jim Boeheim did. I know a lot of DBR posters like JB because he basks in the aura of working on the national team for K, but I've always thought he was a total tool, and this kinda confirms my thinking. What an idiot. Your team is only down two, the other team is shooting about 50% from the foul line for the game, there are 10 seconds left, a block-charge doesn't go your way, why not pitch a temper tantrum and toss the whole game away?

It was actually Bilas that said that.

MChambers
02-22-2014, 08:18 PM
Been nice if Bilas could have admitted it might be a charge; however, the win's great. The ref gas to call a T, not sure what else Boeheim said, but must gave been classic.
He said "That's b***s***!"

grossbus
02-22-2014, 08:18 PM
"Dickie V actually said a wise thing--the charge call didn't end the game, Jim Boeheim did."

Actually, bilas said that, I think.

loran16
02-22-2014, 08:19 PM
Home Court Advantage is fun!

Can we have the ACC Tourney already? I want neutral refs. Still bad refs. But Neutral.

sporthenry
02-22-2014, 08:19 PM
"Dickie V actually said a wise thing--the charge call didn't end the game, Jim Boeheim did."

Actually, bilas said that, I think.

Yeah, it was the second game that Dickie V tried to say you shouldn't T up guys for getting in ref's face.

TKG
02-22-2014, 08:19 PM
The charge call on Fair and Boeheim ejection will feed the Duke-Gets-All-The-Calls beast.......

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:19 PM
After a game in which saw Hood get a charge against him when a guy was less set or Parker get an offensive foul call while he was in the air. I'm okay with the questionable call. I don't think it was that different than the Jabari 3 point play on the other side but that is what can happen when you just barrel into guys willy nilly. Sometimes the calls won't go your way.

Reffing has been absolutely atrocious the last two games. Tonight, Duke got the benefit they didn't get Thursday.

A bad no-call probably cost us the game at Syracuse. A sort of bad charge call returned the favor at home. Karma.

arnie
02-22-2014, 08:20 PM
Is it possible this is due to the tight schedule?

That's strange reasoning to me - do teams in the Acc championship (3 games in 3 days) shoot FT's poorly? We just had a bad night from the line with no excuses. Gutty win though and Jabari showed great energy at end.

sagegrouse
02-22-2014, 08:20 PM
Syracuse is better than I thought. The Orange played tough and could have won at the end. We ain't exactly killers in the last four minutes, are we? We had chances to ahead by eight and then by six on Jabari's FTs (he missed).

Mediocre shooting night for Duke -- subpar shooting by Cuse, but I give credit there to Duke's defense.

I am not chagrined by winning on a charging call -- I've been begging for one all year. And BTW the foul on Hood on the winning drive against Syracuse last time was a far, far more obvious call.

Boeheim is a crazy man, throwing away such an important game on a tantrum.

Duke's free throw shooting. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???

devilnfla
02-22-2014, 08:20 PM
They were probably seeing what I saw. The defender also has to be set and in place BEFORE the shooter makes his move and leaves his feet.

We were lucky. It should have been an "and one" and a tie game at that point.

NO complaints about the refs tonight!!

Totally disagree. Close call, yes. Refs though were not good tonight. Saw several and one opportunities for Duke tonight that didn't get called.

NashvilleDevil
02-22-2014, 08:20 PM
Unless we learn to start shooting fouls we aren't going very far.

Did Duke win? Do free throws tonight matter for a game in March and April? Duke just ended a week 3-1 and capped it by beating Syracuse. Just stop with the negative after a big win.

fisheyes
02-22-2014, 08:21 PM
None of this angst would have been necessary if we had hit our usual foul shots. Tired legs? Stress? Regression to the norm?

gwlaw99
02-22-2014, 08:21 PM
3942

Sorry the image is not rotated right, but you can see that Fair's front foot has not even come down before Hood was set.

Dukehky
02-22-2014, 08:21 PM
Plus infinity on this. Seeing "gbinije still doesn't play" on twitter and hearing "we don't miss you" on TV were both unwarranted. That said, I'll second on a TV the crowd seemed loud and animated - well done Crazies!

This is so soft. I understand he's a kid, but gah, he left, he's not a Duke player anymore. The crazies can taunt him if they want. Jeeze Louise, it's not like they threw condoms on the court or anything. I'm just happy as all get out that they made up a new chant that was relatively clever. It gives me hope. I thought we don't miss you was funny. He left because he didn't get playing time, it's not like he bailed to go be near an ailing family member. He's fair game.

KandG
02-22-2014, 08:21 PM
HUGE win, Cameron was as good as I've heard it in a while. Shame about the end, and I can only imagine the meltdown on this board if we had somehow lost thanks to premature stall-ball. Some of the decisions made against the zone were highly questionable by Quinn & Sheed, but all things considered, the right guys got the ball down the stretch most of the time. Pretty much every Duke player did something good and vital tonight.

Love the energy from Marshall, who continues to improve dramatically, even if the team had a hell of a time scoring while he was in there in the first half. Really thought his energy rubbed off on the other guys and helped them overcome the slow start.

The FT shooting...ouch. That obviously can't continue. But hell week is over, so the rest will hopefully help with that.

Perimeter D against Syracuse's guards was fantastic. Overall energy and effort from the team was good throughout even when decision-making wasn't always sharp... players didn't hang their heads after mistakes and the droughts were minimal. Duke still needs to clean up its pick and roll D considerably (there were several embarrassing blown rotations), but again, I expect the time off to help.

Coach K talked about this being a "character win" and that truly was the case tonight. This really erases a lot of the bad vibes from Thursday.

nyesq83
02-22-2014, 08:22 PM
Says K.

To have this much fight and energy for this game was a character win for this team.

Our sixth man (helped us win this game)\
We are not shooting free throws well, part of the game is playing this intensely and trying to make frees.

What a great game for Duke and college basketball.

Says Quinn must shoot, Plumlee had cramps, he has to drink more fluids. Let's see the same atmosphere here Tuesday, come support the team and be hungry.

K meant, Quinn must shoot so he can score, he is just not scoring.

BobbyFan
02-22-2014, 08:22 PM
No, it shouldn't have. Rodney's feet WERE set. Please watch it again.

I thought Rodney did get there in time, but then shuffled his feet at the last moment.

ChrisP
02-22-2014, 08:23 PM
A bad no-call probably cost us the game at Syracuse. A sort of bad charge call returned the favor at home. Karma.

How is it a "sort of bad charge call?" Really, I'd like to know your reasoning. I've watched it several times and Rodney's feet were set, he was OUTSIDE of the protected area AND Fair launched himself into Hood with his knee out. How is that NOT a charge???? Look I hate that the game basically ended on that kind of play and would have preferred we hit our FT's and that QC didn't brick a bunch of shots late but...the rules are the rules. I don't think the charge was at all questionable. I just don't.

#1Duke
02-22-2014, 08:24 PM
Totally disagree. Close call, yes. Refs though were not good tonight. Saw several and one opportunities for Duke tonight that didn't get called.

That's fine, not everyone is going to look at things objectively and I understand that.

Dukeface88
02-22-2014, 08:25 PM
Plus infinity on this. Seeing "gbinije still doesn't play" on twitter and hearing "we don't miss you" on TV were both unwarranted. That said, I'll second on a TV the crowd seemed loud and animated - well done Crazies!

I thought it was pretty funny personally. You've got to expect that kind of thing after leaving.

CoachJ10
02-22-2014, 08:25 PM
After a game in which saw Hood get a charge against him when a guy was less set or Parker get an offensive foul call while he was in the air. I'm okay with the questionable call. I don't think it was that different than the Jabari 3 point play on the other side but that is what can happen when you just barrel into guys willy nilly. Sometimes the calls won't go your way.

Reffing has been absolutely atrocious the last two games. Tonight, Duke got the benefit they didn't get Thursday.

I was trolling on twitter all the media haters (like Gottlieb) about the charge called on Hood earlier, and what their thoughts on that were. Silence.

Except Julius Hodge who said "I don't root for Duke, so my answer is NO. Duh". #honesthater

Wildling
02-22-2014, 08:25 PM
A bad no-call probably cost us the game at Syracuse. A sort of bad charge call returned the favor at home. Karma.

It was a charge.

The no call at the dome was tough. But what did K do? He smiled and laughed. Tough call for Jimmy and what does he do? Loses the game for his kids. Well done Jimmy! Thanks!

burnspbesq
02-22-2014, 08:26 PM
Today will go down in Cuse lore as Black Saturday. Crushed in lacrosse and a bitterly disappointing loss in basketball.

Quel dommage.

tbyers11
02-22-2014, 08:26 PM
Two amazing rebounds in the last minute. Jabari's defensive rebound in that sea of orange, and Boeheim's jacket bouncing back onto his shoulders.

A million LOLs for the second part.

That D possession that ended with Jabari's man rebound was awesome. Hood got switched on Ennis and applied good pressure. Cook, after the switch, got in Grant's face when he got the ball and made him pass. Tyler denied Fair the ball the whole possession. Sheed made Cooney drive to the hole and Hood helped well to challenge the shot. And then Jabari had the MAN's rebound.

peterjswift
02-22-2014, 08:28 PM
My dad, not a basketball fan, got sucked into this game after halftime.

His comment on the replays of Jim freaking out: "that's gonna make a lot of youtubes."

kAzE
02-22-2014, 08:28 PM
Really really happy with the win. Regardless of how we got there, we needed this one badly, and I'm glad we got the W.

Positives:

Brilliant first half minutes from Plumlee. I thought his energy kept us in the game early when our offense wasn't clicking. That's two great games in a row now for MP3. It's a relief to know that we have a big man off the bench that we can count on to make plays when Jefferson or Parker gets in some early foul trouble.

I thought Sulaimon was terrific in this one. He and Hood really made some outstanding plays against that defense all game long. You gotta tip your cap to Sulaimon though, he scored on 2 run outs, both of which were tough in-traffic layups, and also had a really big pull up jumper that we really needed at a point when our offense had stalled. Not to mention he had 7 assists, awesome performance.

Boeheim's flipping out was pretty funny to watch, but I have to agree with the announcers that it was kind of a disappointing way to end a great game. I'm not complaining though, we may very well have needed that the way Fair was destroying us every time he touched the ball. Thanks again, Boeheim!

Negatives:

Free throw shooting????? Geez, we've been terrible lately. Throw out that Maryland game and we're barely at 50% over the last few.

I would have been really upset if we had lost that game with the offensive gameplan in the 2nd half . . . I wasn't all that concerned about our offense before the game, but why the heck didn't we go to Parker in the high post every damn time once their bigs were in foul trouble? He got ONE touch there in the 2nd half by my count and he scored easily. He's just too strong for their wings and both their centers had 4 fouls . . . if we had lost, I would have been pretty mad we didn't go to that more often. 9 FG attempts for the best offensive player in the country . . come on. If that charge call goes the other way, we would have been down 1 with 10 seconds left and very well could have ended up losing the game. Sorry if that's being too negative too soon, but we really really should taken advantage of Parker and their foul trouble and we just didn't.

tbyers11
02-22-2014, 08:28 PM
I'm sorry, but what in the he double hockey sticks was Jay Bilas talking about regarding the charge Hood took at the end being "questionable"??? His feet were set, he was outside the protected circle area. Come ON JAY!!!

Glad we won, sorry it ended the way it did and really not super happy with the FT shooting or decision making on offense in the last 4 minutes or so. But, a win is a win and I'm happy for that. Really proud of our guys' effort tonight. Big props to Jabari after a poor start and MAJOR kudos to MP3 and Hood for great games :cool:

Jay said that initially but on watching replay he said it was so close that it could go either way.

gus
02-22-2014, 08:28 PM
I thought Rodney did get there in time, but then shuffled his feet at the last moment.

He's allowed to shuffle his feet if he's established legal guarding position.

arnie
02-22-2014, 08:29 PM
It was a charge.

The no call at the dome was tough. But what did K do? He smiled and laughed. Tough call for Jimmy and what does he do? Loses the game for his kids. Well done Jimmy! Thanks!

Watching B on his espn press conference. He sure hates the state of NC and the ACC.

gurufrisbee
02-22-2014, 08:30 PM
I was surprised we got the call, but it was not a terrible one by any means. There were THIRTY far worse than that one that went against Duke in the Carrier Dome and FIFTY worse than that in the Dean Dome. Coach K didn't lose his cool.

TKG
02-22-2014, 08:30 PM
During his post game presser, Boeheim said the reason Syracuse was able to get back in the game late was because Duke slowed down its offense and was running the shot clock down so much they weren't getting good shots. That is not a DBR poster bitching about the slowdown offense that is an opposing coach who owns an NC and might know a bit about the game.

ChrisP
02-22-2014, 08:30 PM
Jay said that initially but on watching replay he said it was so close that it could go either way.

I know Jay said that but how is that different than saying it was "questionable"??? I am really not one of those Duke fans who regularly takes JB to task for trying to appear not to be a Duke homer, but he was just flat out wrong at the end of this game. That was a charge. Textbook. Deal with it, haters.

kmspeaks
02-22-2014, 08:31 PM
Getting the ball to hood at the ft line worked great. Makes perfect sense he wouldn't get a touch there for the last 8 minutes.



People were calling for this in the chat as well but I think we have to credit the Syracuse D here a little bit. Early the entry pass was easy and Rodney was catching it with space. Later in the game there was not nearly as much space at the free throw line and a forced entry pass likely results in a Cuse fast break. The defense adjusted to take away what was a valuable weapon for us.

gwlaw99
02-22-2014, 08:32 PM
Really really happy with the win. Regardless of how we got there, we needed this one badly, and I'm glad we got the W.


Negatives:

.

I would have been really upset if we had lost that game with the offensive gameplan in the 2nd half . . . I wasn't all that concerned about our offense before the game, but why the heck didn't we go to Parker in the high post every damn time once their bigs were in foul trouble? He got ONE touch there in the 2nd half by my count and he scored easily. He's just too strong for their wings and both their centers had 4 fouls . . . if we had lost, I would have been pretty mad we didn't go to that more often. 9 FG attempts for the best offensive player in the country . . come on. If that charge call goes the other way, we would have been down 1 with 10 seconds left and very well could have ended up losing the game. Sorry if that's being too negative too soon, but we really really should taken advantage of Parker and their foul trouble and we just didn't.

I kind of agree. I kept thinking why is Parker just standing in the corner and not even involved in the offense.

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:36 PM
What a game! A much-needed win (for confidence purposes) in a hard-fought game in a very tough stretch for us. Glad we came out on top. Now, we get a bit of a breather with a home game versus VT, and we likely won't have to travel more than an hour and a half for the next several weeks (assuming we land a spot in Raleigh).

Now we just have to beat UNC to get the #3 seed in the ACC tourney.

The positives:

1. Parker is an absolute stud. Best player in the country. If it weren't for a rough patch to start the ACC season, he'd be the head-and-shoulders leader for NPOY. He's been that good lately. Back to being a double-double machine.

2. For the second straight game, Plumlee was a significant presence. If he keeps this up, he may cut further into Jefferson's minutes (he's outplayed Jefferson in both of the last two games). And he's pretty much answered the question of whether he or Hairston should be seeing the backup C minutes. Very happy to see him finally developing into a useful player.

3. The defense on Ennis and Cooney was terrific. Heck, the defense on Fair was pretty good, too. But we completely destroyed their guards.

4. The effort on the offensive glass was terrific. Some of that is to be expected (Syracuse, by virtue of the zone, is a poor defensive rebounding team).

5. We seemed to find a niche play at the free throw line. Interestingly, all the discussion had been about Jefferson or Parker being the guy to take the free throw line spot against the zone. It turns out that our best weapon from there is actually Hood. He was a beast for a long stretch late in the first and early in the second, drawing fouls and making plays.

The negatives:

1. For the second straight game, we were atrocious on the defensive glass. That needs to cease.

2. For the second straight game, we were really bad on the free throw line. That also needs to stop.

3. Not sure why we went away from Hood catching it at the free throw line. Sure, Syracuse started playing that a bit tighter, but there were several instances where it could have still been the play.

4. For the life of me I'm not sure why we didn't attack the post once their bigs were in foul trouble. Strange.

5. Jim Boeheim's end-game antics. Yes, that charge was a very questionable call. I'll even say it was probably the wrong call. But under no circumstances was it a call that warranted that response. Did Coach K charge out onto the court at Syracuse when the officials failed to call the foul on Hood's missed dunk? You can't let your team down like that. They probably were going to lose (60-58 with Duke ball and not much time left), but you have to give your team the chance. He really blew it.

El_Diablo
02-22-2014, 08:36 PM
Current headline on ESPN: "Charge call aids Duke win over No. 1 Cuse"

Channing
02-22-2014, 08:38 PM
People were calling for this in the chat as well but I think we have to credit the Syracuse D here a little bit. Early the entry pass was easy and Rodney was catching it with space. Later in the game there was not nearly as much space at the free throw line and a forced entry pass likely results in a Cuse fast break. The defense adjusted to take away what was a valuable weapon for us.

Absolutely. Su made the pass a lot more difficult but we were walking and jogging. No hard cuts. No finding a way to at least attempt to get the pass inside.

OldSchool
02-22-2014, 08:38 PM
The charge call on Fair and Boeheim ejection will feed the Duke-Gets-All-The-Calls beast.......

I'm willing to bet that this was the point of Boeheim's action. The man has been coaching basketball for 40 years, he didn't just suddenly lose the ability to control himself coaching a game.

Yes, there was a realistic chance he could still win the game, but the odds are against it with Duke up 2 and the ball with 10 seconds left on Duke's home court.

This was a Gary Williams-type move to try to get an advantage by reinforcing the idea that Duke gets all the calls. They benefited from this at the Carrier Dome, and he wanted to set it up in the officials' minds for the next time the two teams play, perhaps in the ACCT when the game will be more important than today's game. Obviously, Boeheim concluded that protesting the call and cementing the idea that "Duke gets all the calls" more important than having a final chance to win this particular game.

I do believe Duke has suffered a backlash from the officials in recent years as a result of the "Duke gets all the calls" theme as they bend over backwards to prove this is not the case. We'll see what the officiating is like if the two teams meet in the ACCT to see if his gambit pays off.

sporthenry
02-22-2014, 08:38 PM
During his post game presser, Boeheim said the reason Syracuse was able to get back in the game late was because Duke slowed down its offense and was running the shot clock down so much they weren't getting good shots. That is not a DBR poster bitching about the slowdown offense that is an opposing coach who owns an NC and might know a bit about the game.

I was hoping to push the pace b/c we had the better play and their big guys on the rope. With 6 minutes left, pushing the pace increases the chances of their guys fouling out and their guys were already playing weak defense avoiding the 5th foul.

I imagine K would respond by saying that Amile had 4 fouls and MP3 was unavailable (some said he was visiting with the trainer) so he didn't want to increase the possessions in that game.

One thing to mention, Cuse only got 3 offensive boards in the 2H. Not sure what their OR% was, but a marked improvement.

burnspbesq
02-22-2014, 08:40 PM
why the heck didn't we go to Parker in the high post every damn time once their bigs were in foul trouble?

Because Cuse made a great adjustment at halftime to take it away. They pinched the two guys at the top of the zone (they didn't go wider than the edges of the lane) and pulled the wings up so that it was really a 2-2-1 to take away wing threes. We didn't counter very well; what was available was corner threes and post entries from the corner, which is a tough pass to make when you're being doubled.

rsvman
02-22-2014, 08:40 PM
My son and I watched the replay an inordinate number of times, and on our nth watching I noticed that C.J. Fair was out of bounds when he caught the pass, before he drove and the contact occurred. So the whole controversy could easily have been avoided. It should have been Duke ball on the sidelines before any of that even happened.

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:41 PM
I'm willing to bet that this was the point of Boeheim's action. The man has been coaching basketball for 40 years, he didn't just suddenly lose the ability to control himself coaching a game.

Yes, there was a realistic chance he could still win the game, but the odds are against it with Duke up 2 and the ball with 10 seconds left on Duke's home court.

This was a Gary Williams-type move to try to get an advantage by reinforcing the idea that Duke gets all the calls. They benefited from this at the Carrier Dome, and he wanted to set it up in the officials' minds for the next time the two teams play, perhaps in the ACCT when the game will be more important than today's game. Obviously, Boeheim concluded that protesting the call and cementing the idea that "Duke gets all the calls" more important than having a final chance to win this particular game.

I do believe Duke has suffered a backlash from the officials in recent years as a result of the "Duke gets all the calls" theme as they bend over backwards to prove this is not the case. We'll see what the officiating is like if the two teams meet in the ACCT to see if his gambit pays off.

I don't agree. I can't imagine that he INSTANTLY was able to process the situation and come up with such a devious strategy. I think he legitimate was infuriated with the call and lost his cool. It may be that he knew that the game was likely lost and thus wasn't concerned about the techs. But I HIGHLY doubt there was an ulterior motive in play. It just happened too quickly for that.

TKG
02-22-2014, 08:41 PM
I'm willing to bet that this was the point of Boeheim's action. The man has been coaching basketball for 40 years, he didn't just suddenly lose the ability to control himself coaching a game.

Yes, there was a realistic chance he could still win the game, but the odds are against it with Duke up 2 and the ball with 10 seconds left on Duke's home court.

This was a Gary Williams-type move to try to get an advantage by reinforcing the idea that Duke gets all the calls. They benefited from this at the Carrier Dome, and he wanted to set it up in the officials' minds for the next time the two teams play, perhaps in the ACCT when the game will be more important than today's game. Obviously, Boeheim concluded that protesting the call and cementing the idea that "Duke gets all the calls" more important than having a final chance to win this particular game.

I do believe Duke has suffered a backlash from the officials in recent years as a result of the "Duke gets all the calls" theme as they bend over backwards to prove this is not the case. We'll see what the officiating is like if the two teams meet in the ACCT to see if his gambit pays off.

Interesting that early in his presser K said he thought that Hood was fouled at Syracuse and the the charge call in this game was accurate. So Boeheim is not the only coach on this night who is willing to express his opinion on the officials. Nice to hear.

arnie
02-22-2014, 08:42 PM
K in his presser says Plumlee had cramps in 2nd half- went to scorers table once and cramped up.

MB in MD
02-22-2014, 08:44 PM
Getting the ball to hood at the ft line worked great. Makes perfect sense he wouldn't get a touch there for the last 8 minutes.



Syracuse made a small adjustment--one of the things that makes their zone so tough, They squeezed their point guys together a little more and the high post flash is not as available. It does open up options in the corner a little more, which we didn't take advantage of, and makes a deeper entry pass from the side possible too, but we only did that once with JP that I could recall.

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:44 PM
My son and I watched the replay an inordinate number of times, and on our nth watching I noticed that C.J. Fair was out of bounds when he caught the pass, before he drove and the contact occurred. So the whole controversy could easily have been avoided. It should have been Duke ball on the sidelines before any of that even happened.

I'm not sure that's quite accurate. It looked like he was on his toes when he caught it. His heels could have been out of bounds, but he wasn't on his heels so he was still in bounds. I agree that it was close.

Channing
02-22-2014, 08:45 PM
My son and I watched the replay an inordinate number of times, and on our nth watching I noticed that C.J. Fair was out of bounds when he caught the pass, before he drove and the contact occurred. So the whole controversy could easily have been avoided. It should have been Duke ball on the sidelines before any of that even happened.

Not sure about that. Looked like he brought it back in bounds before he got the ball.

alum2012
02-22-2014, 08:45 PM
Current headline on ESPN: "Charge call aids Duke win over No. 1 Cuse"

Longtime lurker, first time poster. Had to chime in to add this screenshot of ESPN's coverage of the game. "Parker Epic Fail"--this video clip is from the dunk... on which he was fouled. Epic fail? Really, ESPN???

3943

hudlow
02-22-2014, 08:45 PM
Shannon was looking good tonight....

Levon
02-22-2014, 08:46 PM
1) Cuse was still in the game absent JB's meltdown. Foul on the inbound play, with Duke shooting ~50% FT and then at least 7 seconds to make something happen.

2) Cold shooting night again, on tired legs and against a tough defense. I am not too concerned.

3) The strides made by MP3 are a huge development for this team. I would like to see him be more proactive offensively.

Altogether, the fundamentals of this team are strong. BTW, my first post since...2010! #DDMF

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:46 PM
Because Cuse made a great adjustment at halftime to take it away. They pinched the two guys at the top of the zone (they didn't go wider than the edges of the lane) and pulled the wings up so that it was really a 2-2-1 to take away wing threes. We didn't counter very well; what was available was corner threes and post entries from the corner, which is a tough pass to make when you're being doubled.

It's actually not tough to get that open corner 3. You just have to pass the ball quickly from the top to the wing to the corner. Don't dilly-dally with it. That's one of the easy ways to beat the zone. Move the ball quickly before the zone can recover.

You can also then get the ball into the paint from the corner if you make a third quick pass. It takes discipline and organization, but when you're a good 3pt shooting team there is ALWAYS a way to get the ball into the paint against a zone (as long as the zone is willing to pressure the perimeter).

burnspbesq
02-22-2014, 08:47 PM
Shannon was looking good tonight....

Anyone not named Doris would have been fine tonight.

OldSchool
02-22-2014, 08:47 PM
I don't agree. I can't imagine that he INSTANTLY was able to process the situation and come up with such a devious strategy. I think he legitimate was infuriated with the call and lost his cool. It may be that he knew that the game was likely lost and thus wasn't concerned about the techs. But I HIGHLY doubt there was an ulterior motive in play. It just happened too quickly for that.

Boeheim is a cerebral guy. He's seen everything in his career and has been in some pretty wild games (the famous 6-overtimes game comes to mind). I don't think he needs a lot of time to process a situations in end-of-game moments. As a person, he's just not a hot-head who mindlessly loses his cool.

rsvman
02-22-2014, 08:47 PM
I'm not sure that's quite accurate. It looked like he was on his toes when he caught it. His heels could have been out of bounds, but he wasn't on his heels so he was still in bounds. I agree that it was close.

Could be. Wasn't sure completely whether his heels were touching the ground or not, but it was darned close if not out of bounds.

Still I agreed with the charge call, and with the fact that Boeheim lost his team the game.

fisheyes
02-22-2014, 08:49 PM
My son and I watched the replay an inordinate number of times, and on our nth watching I noticed that C.J. Fair was out of bounds when he caught the pass, before he drove and the contact occurred. So the whole controversy could easily have been avoided. It should have been Duke ball on the sidelines before any of that even happened.

Wow! You're right! His foot was out of bounds on the sideline before starting the play. Nobody will ever show that on ESPN.

Dukehky
02-22-2014, 08:49 PM
Boeheim was a real "Richard" in his post game press conference. I too am not a huge Jimmy B fan, I respect him, but he has never really been my favorite. This doesn't help.

burnspbesq
02-22-2014, 08:50 PM
It's actually not tough to get that open corner 3. You just have to pass the ball quickly from the top to the wing to the corner. Don't dilly-dally with it. That's one of the easy ways to beat the zone. Move the ball quickly before the zone can recover.

You can also then get the ball into the paint from the corner if you make a third quick pass. It takes discipline and organization, but when you're a good 3pt shooting team there is ALWAYS a way to get the ball into the paint against a zone (as long as the zone is willing to pressure the perimeter).

Fair enough, but with only one day to prepare we probably didn't get many reps against Cuse's B alignment.

DukieInBrasil
02-22-2014, 08:50 PM
They were probably seeing what I saw. The defender also has to be set and in place BEFORE the shooter makes his move and leaves his feet.

We were lucky. It should have been an "and one" and a tie game at that point.

NO complaints about the refs tonight!!

wrong. his feet were set before he left his feet. therefore a charge.

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:51 PM
Boeheim is a cerebral guy. He's seen everything in his career and has been in some pretty wild games (the famous 6-overtimes game comes to mind). I don't think he needs a lot of time to process a situations in end-of-game moments. As a person, he's just not a hot-head who mindlessly loses his cool.

No doubt he's cerebral. He may have wanted to make a demonstrative point that they blew the call. I can't imagine that he is so cerebral that he would instantaneously concoct such a plot at the spur of the moment.

I think it is MUCH more likely that he legitimately thought it was a bad call (heck, I think it was a bad call), knew the game was over, and wanted to make sure the officials knew what he thought of the call. I think reading anything more into it than that is tinfoil hat territory.

Saratoga2
02-22-2014, 08:52 PM
Positives:

We limited the Syracuse guards tonight. Very impressive defense on them.

Plumlee had a very strong first half when Amile couldn't handle the Syracuse bigs. Rasheed even fed him for a dunk. I think that could work more often. He came into the second half but seemed more passive, and with the Syracuse bigs out, I thought it made sense to stick with Amile fr most of the 2nd half.

Jabari had an excellent spirited game scoring from all over and getting tough rebounds (one at end was impressive)

Rodney also had a good night and made a number of key plays. Rodney and Jabari are zone busters from the top of the key.

Negatives:

Free throw shooting nearly lost us the game. Very poor.

Jabari, Rasheed, Amile getting stripped. Jabari tried to do too much early and needs to find open players when double teamed.

Don't like fouling in our end when we are trying to protect a lead with the clock running down. Tyler just tends to lose track of the game situation.


Overall I thought coach K used his substitutions well tonight. Andre didn't seem to have his shot tonight. Matt is a good defender but our guards did well defending with a couple of exceptions. Nice win for Duke. Too bad for the Syracuse players that they have a coach that couldn't control his emotions.

CDu
02-22-2014, 08:54 PM
wrong. his feet were set before he left his feet. therefore a charge.

Yes, the feet were set. But the body was moving - sliding to the right and into Fair's path. It's not just the feet that decide whether it's a charge or block. You have to be stationary or be holding your position. Hood was doing neither of those.

I'm not complaining. We got hosed on a late-game call in Syracuse. I'm happy for it to even out at home.

LBF
02-22-2014, 08:54 PM
People were calling for this in the chat as well but I think we have to credit the Syracuse D here a little bit. Early the entry pass was easy and Rodney was catching it with space. Later in the game there was not nearly as much space at the free throw line and a forced entry pass likely results in a Cuse fast break. The defense adjusted to take away what was a valuable weapon for us.


I agree with this. The weak side guard was slacking down to make the entry pass too questionable. This was implemented after the timeout which followed the two hood conversions in the post.

devilnfla
02-22-2014, 08:57 PM
That's fine, not everyone is going to look at things objectively and I understand that.

I take your response to mean that since our opinions differ that yours is correct and mine is wrong? I feel very objective and feel fortunate to get that call. Not because it was a bad call but because there had been so many other bad calls or no calls go against us in this game and the one in the dome.

NashvilleDevil
02-22-2014, 08:59 PM
One negative from tonight. Seeing the morons who claim to be Duke fans going after Gbinjie on twitter.

OldSchool
02-22-2014, 09:01 PM
No doubt he's cerebral. He may have wanted to make a demonstrative point that they blew the call. I can't imagine that he is so cerebral that he would instantaneously concoct such a plot at the spur of the moment.

I think it is MUCH more likely that he legitimately thought it was a bad call (heck, I think it was a bad call), knew the game was over, and wanted to make sure the officials knew what he thought of the call. I think reading anything more into it than that is tinfoil hat territory.

Coaches often intentionally "lose it" to get a technical foul in order to make a point, either to their own team or to the officials. That's not conspiracy theory.

As far as whether the call was wrong, after seeing the screen cap posted above in this thread which shows Hood having established legal guarding position while Fair is still stepping down with his foot, how can one say that Fair had already started his upward motion?

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:01 PM
Fair enough, but with only one day to prepare we probably didn't get many reps against Cuse's B alignment.

True. But we do have a Hall of Fame coach who undoubtedly understands how to beat a 2-2-1 zone. You can call a timeout, draw up that play pretty quick, and send them back out there. If it doesn't work, we're no worse off than simply tentatively passing it around the perimeter and shooting a contested shot at the buzzer.

rsvman
02-22-2014, 09:03 PM
Coaches often intentionally "lose it" to get a technical foul in order to make a point, either to their own team or to the officials. That's not conspiracy theory.....

Yes, but they do it earlier in the game in order to change the way the refs call the rest of the game so that it ends in their favor; they don't do it when it ends up throwing a game in order to get intangible benefit in some future game that may or may not even be played. C'mon.

MaxAMillion
02-22-2014, 09:03 PM
Yes, the feet were set. But the body was moving - sliding to the right and into Fair's path. It's not just the feet that decide whether it's a charge or block. You have to be stationary or be holding your position. Hood was doing neither of those.

I'm not complaining. We got hosed on a late-game call in Syracuse. I'm happy for it to even out at home.

Correct...the new rule states you must be in legal guarding position before the player starts their upward motion (not just the feet). I read an article this summer where one unnamed ref said that a lot of 50/50 calls that were charges would turn into about 25 out of 200 being called a charge. The rule change was to pretty much outlaw teams using the charge as defensive strategy.

Personally I don't really care because refs never lose games. Fans just get emotional when a call goes against their team. This was a 40 minute game with countless opportunities for each team to make plays that would allow their team to win. You would think Boeheim would get this but the truth is he has always been a bit of a crybaby.

Levon
02-22-2014, 09:03 PM
Yes, the feet were set. But the body was moving - sliding to the right and into Fair's path. It's not just the feet that decide whether it's a charge or block. You have to be stationary or be holding your position. Hood was doing neither of those.

I'm not complaining. We got hosed on a late-game call in Syracuse. I'm happy for it to even out at home.

Wrong. A player can be moving laterally.

CR9
02-22-2014, 09:05 PM
Shannon was looking good tonight....

She's always looking good. She's one of my favorites.


/stalker

tfk53
02-22-2014, 09:05 PM
Was worried to death as to how they would come out after Thursday's game. Impressed with how they did not let Cuse run to double digit lead in early 1st half and fought back with intensity. Very proud of keeping their poise and making this game a win.
I ref on a small time basis - certainly appeared to be a charge to me and have seen nothing on the replays to change that thought. Is definitely the hardest call to make out there.
Concerns:
1. - not only in this game but in previous ones - re how loose we are with the ball going to the hoop. It seems we are just not strong in holding onto the ball. Happens on rebounds also. Do all the guys just have smaller hands? I remember Elton Brand's hands - huge ones, 9.5 glove size, IIRC - and hardly anything got knocked out from his grip.
2. Foul shots - atrocious.
Need to change both of these areas to move onward in March.

mr. synellinden
02-22-2014, 09:07 PM
Coaches often intentionally "lose it" to get a technical foul in order to make a point, either to their own team or to the officials. That's not conspiracy theory.

As far as whether the call was wrong, after seeing the screen cap posted above in this thread which shows Hood having established legal guarding position while Fair is still stepping down with his foot, how can one say that Fair had already started his upward motion?

Digger Phelps just said he thought it was a charge. I agree with him. If I were a Syracuse fan I'd probably disagree. I think Hood established position. But this was a very close call. Very. Boeheim said at his press conference it was the worst call of the year. Well, if you read his lips when he got ejected, you'll know how I feel about that. The non-call against Hood was much worse. And you didn't hear Coach K making any hyperbolic comments after the last game. I lost some respect for Boeheim tonight.

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:07 PM
Coaches often intentionally "lose it" to get a technical foul in order to make a point, either to their own team or to the officials. That's not conspiracy theory.

I absolutely agree that coaches intentionally lose it to make a point. I also agree that Boeheim may very well have been doing so in this case. The conspiracy theory is your suggestion that Boeheim knew it was a good call but wanted to put the "Duke gets all the calls" in the minds of the officials. I think "the point" he was trying to make was that he felt the officials blew that call and he felt it cost them the game.


As far as whether the call was wrong, after seeing the screen cap posted above in this thread which shows Hood having established legal guarding position while Fair is still stepping down with his foot, how can one say that Fair had already started his upward motion?

Hood had his feet set before Fair took off. Had his body been stationary, it should be a charge. But his body was not stationary. He had been sliding to his right, and he continued to lean his body to his right, into Fair's path. The reason it was a block had nothing to do with his feet. It was his midsection and upper body that made it a block.

Notice that Fair didn't catch Hood in the chest. His side clipped Hood's side. And that's because Hood's upper body was sliding to the right in order to make contact. That's a block.

Saratoga2
02-22-2014, 09:07 PM
Correct...the new rule states you must be in legal guarding position before the player starts their upward motion (not just the feet). I read an article this summer where one unnamed ref said that a lot of 50/50 calls that were charges would turn into about 25 out of 200 being called a charge. The rule change was to pretty much outlaw teams using the charge as defensive strategy.

Personally I don't really care because refs never lose games. Fans just get emotional when a call goes against their team. This was a 40 minute game with countless opportunities for each team to make plays that would allow their team to win. You would think Boeheim would get this but the truth is he has always been a bit of a crybaby.

A wise observation. A for instance is that Jabari was definitely fouled on two plays where he made the basket inside. No call!

G man
02-22-2014, 09:07 PM
Longtime lurker, first time poster. Had to chime in to add this screenshot of ESPN's coverage of the game. "Parker Epic Fail"--this video clip is from the dunk... on which he was fouled. Epic fail? Really, ESPN???

3943

Yeah I saw that as well. ESPN benefits huge by televising Duke not sure where the hate is coming from. Duke UNC alone makes them a ton of money no reason to be petty on stupid things like a foul and missed dunk. A little irritating on their behalf but more stupid than anything.

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:08 PM
A wise observation. A for instance is that Jabari was definitely fouled on two plays where he made the basket inside. No call!

Oh, absolutely. Tons of calls were missed in this (and every) game. I completely agree on that point. It's just that the call on Fair at the end just happened to be another of many bad calls.

Happy it worked out in our favor. Karmic justice for the no-call at the end of the game at Cuse.

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:10 PM
Wrong. A player can be moving laterally.

That's simply not correct in the scenario we're discussing. You can't lean into a shooter after he has taken off. That's what Hood did.

sporthenry
02-22-2014, 09:10 PM
Yeah I saw that as well. ESPN benefits huge by televising Duke not sure where the hate is coming from. Duke UNC alone makes them a ton of money no reason to be petty on stupid things like a foul and missed dunk. A little irritating on their behalf but more stupid than anything.

B/c most of their money is probably on Duke hate or at least Duke controversy. A wise man once told me the first letter in the ESPN acronym stands for Entertainment.

G man
02-22-2014, 09:11 PM
I absolutely agree that coaches intentionally lose it to make a point. I also agree that Boeheim may very well have been doing so in this case. The conspiracy theory is your suggestion that Boeheim knew it was a good call but wanted to put the "Duke gets all the calls" in the minds of the officials. I think "the point" he was trying to make was that he felt the officials blew that call and he felt it cost them the game.



Hood had his feet set before Fair took off. Had his body been stationary, it should be a charge. But his body was not stationary. He had been sliding to his right, and he continued to lean his body to his right, into Fair's path. The reason it was a block had nothing to do with his feet. It was his midsection and upper body that made it a block.

Notice that Fair didn't catch Hood in the chest. His side clipped Hood's side. And that's because Hood's upper body was sliding to the right in order to make contact. That's a block.

CDu I am fairly sure it doesn't matter if he takes the contact in the chest or on the hip as long as he is in legal guarding positions it would be an offensive foul. It was a really close call that could go either way. I am though a little surprised by the call with the new rules emphasis.

NYBri
02-22-2014, 09:11 PM
We finally win a close one.

KandG
02-22-2014, 09:11 PM
ESPN News played quite a bit of Coach K's postgame press conference. Really enjoyed how expansive he was on the game, on the spirit of the fans, on the tenor of both games vs Syracuse.

Thought it was especially interesting when he noted that they changed the way they defended Cuse's high ball screens, by not forcing the guards one way or the other and allowing them to get a head of steam, but instead having the big move from one side to the other. No doubt that was a part of how well Duke's guards were able to contain Syracuse up top.

FWIW, I don't agree with the way Boeheim reacted at the end, but I do agree with what he said post-game in saying he would have been fine with a no-call. I understand his displeasure given Jabari got a highly questionable block call on the and-1 earlier in the game.

Oh, and count me in with the crowd who thought heckling Gbinje was tasteless. Probably a byproduct of how charged the crowd was (a good thing), but I don't like treating people who made a decision to go to Duke at one point like lepers once they make a decision for themselves to leave, unless they were especially bad apples or handled their departure in a classless way...even then, I prefer fans being above the issues with former players rather than getting petty. I didn't get the sense Gbinje was deserving of the taunting he got. If there are nuances to this story I'm not aware of, I'd be happy to be educated on them.

G man
02-22-2014, 09:12 PM
B/c most of their money is probably on Duke hate or at least Duke controversy. A wise man once told me the first letter in the ESPN acronym stands for Entertainment.

Good call! I guess I didn't look at it that way. Still kind of dumb!

G man
02-22-2014, 09:13 PM
Any idea who came to the game tonight? Would have been a great game to entertain recruits!

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:14 PM
CDu I am fairly sure it doesn't matter if he takes the contact in the chest or on the hip as long as he is in legal guarding positions it would be an offensive foul. It was a really close call that could go either way. I am though a little surprised by the call with the new rules emphasis.

I didn't articulate that well. My point was that the reason that the contact happened side to side was that Hood leaned his body into Fair. You are correct that if the defender is completely still and the offensive player hits the defender in the side, it can be a charge. That's not the scenario that happened in this case.

Channing
02-22-2014, 09:14 PM
Front page of espn: duke aided by questionable call beats cuse (or something like that).

So if k lost his innards after hoods no call in cuse would there have been this kind of cuse gets the calls bs?

OldSchool
02-22-2014, 09:15 PM
Hood had his feet set before Fair took off. Had his body been stationary, it should be a charge. But his body was not stationary. He had been sliding to his right, and he continued to lean his body to his right, into Fair's path. The reason it was a block had nothing to do with his feet. It was his midsection and upper body that made it a block.

Notice that Fair didn't catch Hood in the chest. His side clipped Hood's side. And that's because Hood's upper body was sliding to the right in order to make contact. That's a block.

I just rewound it a couple of times and I disagree that Hood was sliding to his right. In fact, Hood was straightening up over his established foot position, not sliding to his right. This had the effect of moving toward Fair, but Hood is entitled to maintain verticality over his feet. Yes, Fair didn't catch him square in the chest, because Fair tried to slide to his left, but not enough to avoid the charge.

arnie
02-22-2014, 09:16 PM
Oh, absolutely. Tons of calls were missed in this (and every) game. I completely agree on that point. It's just that the call on Fair at the end just happened to be another of many bad calls.

Happy it worked out in our favor. Karmic justice for the no-call at the end of the game at Cuse.

You and IC have become arrogantly obsessive about the call. Even Bilas has now said it may have been a charge, Guess you AND IC know best.

MaxAMillion
02-22-2014, 09:17 PM
A wise observation. A for instance is that Jabari was definitely fouled on two plays where he made the basket inside. No call!

Of course...there are missed calls every game. It just feels better for some fans (and coaches apparently) to be the victim of some sort of wrong or conspiracy. Better than than take responsibility for the performance (which is what Boeheim should be doing now if he could remove his head from his rear)

rsvman
02-22-2014, 09:17 PM
I just rewound it a couple of times and I disagree that Hood was sliding to his right. In fact, Hood was straightening up over his established foot position, not sliding to his right. This had the effect of moving toward Fair, but Hood is entitled to maintain verticality over his feet. Yes, Fair didn't catch him square in the chest, because Fair tried to slide to his left, but not enough to avoid the charge.

This. I disagree with CDu's take on the play.

gwlaw99
02-22-2014, 09:18 PM
CDu I am fairly sure it doesn't matter if he takes the contact in the chest or on the hip as long as he is in legal guarding positions it would be an offensive foul. It was a really close call that could go either way. I am though a little surprised by the call with the new rules emphasis.

So I watched the angle from behind the basket frame by frame. Hoods toes were down after the little shuffle before Fair's upward motion, but I don't think his heels were down yet. So are you in legal guarding position if you are on your toes or do your heels have to come down?

uh_no
02-22-2014, 09:18 PM
I just rewound it a couple of times and I disagree that Hood was sliding to his right. In fact, Hood was straightening up over his established foot position, not sliding to his right. This had the effect of moving toward Fair, but Hood is entitled to maintain verticality over his feet. Yes, Fair didn't catch him square in the chest, because Fair tried to slide to his left, but not enough to avoid the charge.

We have a lot of people chiming in with differing opinions on the call, mostly supported by sound arguments and I think that's great. what it says to me most is that there is some subjectivity in the rules, and the call was darn close

I don't think any side will be able to convince the other of their position, and that's okay.

It was a close call, I don't think anyone ca deny it, whether they believe the call was correct or not, and fortunately it went our way. Hopefully in the future we can play just a little better the rest of the way (free throws?) so we don't have to hope a close call goes our way down the stretch.

Kudos on the team...it was a tough week, and it showed down the stretch on thursday and tonight....but hey, good prep for next month!

lets go get them heels in a few more weeks

Rich
02-22-2014, 09:18 PM
We finally win a close one.

What do you call the UVA game?

wsb3
02-22-2014, 09:19 PM
As the years goes by I can tolerate Dickie V less and less. Watching the replay of the charge and his reaction to the call and the techs. Sorry Dickie V that you don't want the game to end like that but when you charge out on to the court and curse at officials that is pretty much limits the refs options.

Rich
02-22-2014, 09:19 PM
Any idea who came to the game tonight? Would have been a great game to entertain recruits!

Scottie Pippen was there. Does he have any eligibility left? ;)

BlueDevilBrowns
02-22-2014, 09:19 PM
Shannon was looking good tonight....

She brought her A-game for sure tonight. A natural beauty.

Being the sideline reporter is kind of a thankless job but she makes the most of it, IMO.

And as far as the game goes:

Big props to the Defense tonight. Very complete performance, both 1st and 2nd half, just solid all-around team defense.

MP3 was great.

2nd game in a row he played his best game of his career. What impresses me most about him is his fluid footwork on defense. Plumlee covers so much ground due to his quickness, allowing him to hedge and help without getting completely out of position. Now he's also gaining confidence on offense and you can see his teammates trusting him more with the ball to make the right decision.

Look out ACC!

77devil
02-22-2014, 09:19 PM
I didn't articulate that well. My point was that the reason that the contact happened side to side was that Hood leaned his body into Fair. You are correct that if the defender is completely still and the offensive player hits the defender in the side, it can be a charge. That's not the scenario that happened in this case.

You are incorrect. Hood stopped moving laterally and his torso is completely stationary before Fair moves upward and leaves the ground. At no point does Rodney lean his body into Fair. For whatever reason you are just making this up.

BobbyFan
02-22-2014, 09:19 PM
He's allowed to shuffle his feet if he's established legal guarding position.

Yes, but I thought he shuffled a bit towards Fair, not just shuffled in place. Either way, it was a close call.

DrChainsaw
02-22-2014, 09:20 PM
She's always looking good. She's one of my favorites.


/stalker

Can't believe this is what you're focusing on after a game like that.

Real or not?

:confused:

OldSchool
02-22-2014, 09:20 PM
I absolutely agree that coaches intentionally lose it to make a point. I also agree that Boeheim may very well have been doing so in this case. The conspiracy theory is your suggestion that Boeheim knew it was a good call but wanted to put the "Duke gets all the calls" in the minds of the officials. I think "the point" he was trying to make was that he felt the officials blew that call and he felt it cost them the game.

Don't get me wrong - I am not saying Boeheim "knew it was a good call." I think he genuinely thought it was a bad call. My point is that Boeheim has no history of simply losing control of himself in a game, and it is more likely that he deliberately behaved the way he did to get a technical in order to make a point to the officials about Duke getting the benefit of a bad call, and that he concluded that that point was more important than letting his team still have a slim chance to win the game.

AncientPsychicT
02-22-2014, 09:21 PM
This is for Jerami Grant, who refused to sit down after fouling out with about ten seconds left:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

SEE YA!

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:22 PM
I just rewound it a couple of times and I disagree that Hood was sliding to his right. In fact, Hood was straightening up over his established foot position, not sliding to his right. This had the effect of moving toward Fair, but Hood is entitled to maintain verticality over his feet. Yes, Fair didn't catch him square in the chest, because Fair tried to slide to his left, but not enough to avoid the charge.

We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've watched it a bunch of times as well, and I see Hood's body moving forward and to the right, into the path of Fair. Fair tries to slide around Hood, but Hood's forward and rightward movement makes that impossible.

That being said, it's really not worth arguing about. The call was made. I'm happy we got the call. Arguing about it further is a waste of both of our time. Happy we got the win.

Atlanta Duke
02-22-2014, 09:23 PM
Compare and contrast

Coach K after the game in Syracuse regarding the no call on Rodney Hood's attempted dunk

Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski had the definitive word on a play that occurred with Syracuse leading 88-87.

"This game is too good to talk about one play," Krzyzewski said. "I'm not going there at all."
http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2014/02/rakeem_christmas_contributes_defense_rebounds_and_ scoring_in_syracuse_win_over_d.html

Coach Boeheim's post-game comments tonight

"I just thought that was the worst call of the year, that's all," Boeheim said. "I hated to see the game decided on that call."
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400502872

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:24 PM
Don't get me wrong - I am not saying Boeheim "knew it was a good call." I think he genuinely thought it was a bad call. My point is that Boeheim has no history of simply losing control of himself in a game, and it is more likely that he deliberately behaved the way he did to get a technical in order to make a point to the officials about Duke getting the benefit of a bad call, and that he concluded that that point was more important than letting his team still have a slim chance to win the game.

Had you said that the first time, I'd have not disagreed with you. But you said that he was looking to push the "Duke gets all the calls" mantra with his tirade, as some sort of ploy to put a seed in their heads for future games. That's what I disagreed with. I think he genuinely thought it was a bad call and made the display to let the officials know about it, knowing that the game was likely over at that point.

CR9
02-22-2014, 09:25 PM
Can't believe this is what you're focusing on after a game like that.

Real or not?

:confused:

Let's just say it's easy to multitask when it comes to Shannon.

uh_no
02-22-2014, 09:25 PM
"I just thought that was the worst call of the year, that's all," Boeheim said. "I hated to see the game decided on that call."
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400502872

wonder if he gets suspended for the outburt + the presser comments.....ACC doesn't like criticizing the refs....

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:27 PM
Compare and contrast

Coach K after the game in Syracuse regarding the no call on Rodney Hood's attempted dunk

Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski had the definitive word on a play that occurred with Syracuse leading 88-87.

"This game is too good to talk about one play," Krzyzewski said. "I'm not going there at all."
http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2014/02/rakeem_christmas_contributes_defense_rebounds_and_ scoring_in_syracuse_win_over_d.html

Coach Boeheim's post-game comments tonight

"I just thought that was the worst call of the year, that's all," Boeheim said. "I hated to see the game decided on that call."
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400502872

Totally agree that Boeheim handled this without class where Coach K handled a similar situation with complete class. I think it was a bad call, but to say it was the "worst call of the year" is an absolute joke. Boeheim should be better than that.

Eternal Outlaw
02-22-2014, 09:27 PM
Boeheim is a cerebral guy. He's seen everything in his career and has been in some pretty wild games (the famous 6-overtimes game comes to mind). I don't think he needs a lot of time to process a situations in end-of-game moments. As a person, he's just not a hot-head who mindlessly loses his cool.

Then how has he never been kicked out of a game before? Certainly a situation has happened before where late he thought his team would lose and maybe throwing out the 'bad call' epic meltdown might win them a game later against that team. I find it hard to believe this would not pop up until now if this is such a tactical and not emotional play.

Dude lost it. He could have easily argued against the call and then use his presser to pound it home if he wanted to plant a seed for a following game without taking the air out of any chance left to win in this game.

DBFAN
02-22-2014, 09:27 PM
This is too funny not to share. You may have already seen it, if not just watch

https://vine.co/v/MmO0PnEYOQl

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-22-2014, 09:28 PM
Compare and contrast

Coach K after the game in Syracuse regarding the no call on Rodney Hood's attempted dunk

Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski had the definitive word on a play that occurred with Syracuse leading 88-87.

"This game is too good to talk about one play," Krzyzewski said. "I'm not going there at all."
http://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/index.ssf/2014/02/rakeem_christmas_contributes_defense_rebounds_and_ scoring_in_syracuse_win_over_d.html

Coach Boeheim's post-game comments tonight

"I just thought that was the worst call of the year, that's all," Boeheim said. "I hated to see the game decided on that call."
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=400502872
ACC will be sending him an "invoice" for that one, huh?

LBF
02-22-2014, 09:28 PM
What do you call the UVA game?

Almost blowing a big lead

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:30 PM
You and IC have become arrogantly obsessive about the call. Even Bilas has now said it may have been a charge, Guess you AND IC know best.

Whatever. I'm no more obsessive about the call than folks arguing it was the correct call. Just because you disagree with me doesn't mean I'm being arrogant or obsessive.

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:32 PM
You are incorrect. Hood stopped moving laterally and his torso is completely stationary before Fair moves upward and leaves the ground. At no point does Rodney lean his body into Fair. For whatever reason you are just making this up.

I respectfully disagree with you. Let's move on.

Great win for our guys.

Gmadaduke
02-22-2014, 09:32 PM
USA Today may have the greatest headline I've ever seen regarding the game: "Jim Boeheim loses his mind at referees, gets ejected against Duke"

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/02/jim-boeheim-ejected-duke-syracuse/

I agree, it's a shame to see it end that way, but funny is funny.

Blue KevIL
02-22-2014, 09:32 PM
Just wondering...

Does Boeheim's outburst count as a Court Storming?

GGLC
02-22-2014, 09:33 PM
To say our offense does not look sharp against zones lately would be a severe understatement. Half the time we just pass it back and forth on the perimeter for 25 seconds and then hoist up a three.

I genuinely don't understand why we can't scheme against zones better. Any ideas?

Rich
02-22-2014, 09:34 PM
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I've watched it a bunch of times as well, and I see Hood's body moving forward and to the right, into the path of Fair. Fair tries to slide around Hood, but Hood's forward and rightward movement makes that impossible.

That being said, it's really not worth arguing about. The call was made. I'm happy we got the call. Arguing about it further is a waste of both of our time. Happy we got the win.

Can we all agree that the foul on Hood at Syracuse was an easier call and should have been made?

Atlanta Duke
02-22-2014, 09:36 PM
wonder if he gets suspended for the outburt + the presser comments.....ACC doesn't like criticizing the refs....

He may have covered himself with this comment

"I thought the game was extremely well officiated, as good as we've had all year—don't laugh. I joke, but that's not one" Boeheim
https://twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/437410418953551872

I have not seen the video of the postgame presser but apparently Coach Boeheim was joking about the meltdown

"Wanted to see I still had it in me to get out there. I thought I did. I was quick. I didn't get injured." - Jim Boeheim on his protest
https://twitter.com/laurakeeley/status/437410659442380800

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:36 PM
Can we all agree that the foul on Hood at Syracuse was an easier call and should have been made?

Oh, absolutely. That was a VERY bad no-call.

aswewere
02-22-2014, 09:38 PM
I respectfully disagree with you. Let's move on.

Great win for our guys.


I have ran the play 5 times in slow motion 2 different shots and it still is a charge.

Rich
02-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Almost blowing a big lead

Key word is "almost." I call it hanging tough and winning a close game. Geez, the fans on this board are so harsh. Even when Duke wins there are so many critics. Every season ain't gonna be 1999 where we blow everyone out.

GGLC
02-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Also, that intentional foul call on Dawkins might literally be one of the worst calls I've ever seen.

sagegrouse
02-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Can we all agree that the foul on Hood at Syracuse was an easier call and should have been made?

I had a problem with the officiating tonight. We were getting hammered at the rim on baskets and missed shots without anything being called. It was probably the same, but to a lesser degree, with Syracuse. Those plays would be called fouls in the NBA every single time.

OldSchool
02-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Had you said that the first time, I'd have not disagreed with you. But you said that he was looking to push the "Duke gets all the calls" mantra with his tirade, as some sort of ploy to put a seed in their heads for future games. That's what I disagreed with. I think he genuinely thought it was a bad call and made the display to let the officials know about it, knowing that the game was likely over at that point.

If one agrees that Boeheim did this purposely and did not simply lose control of himself, then it seems logical that the point of the tirade was to influence the officials going forward, since it was too late to have any further affect on the officiating in this particular game.

I can't help but think watching the officiating in Duke games recently that the idea out there, which really exists, that officials have unfairly favored Duke over the years with calls has resulted in officials having in the back of their minds an inclination not to feed that perception.

dukelifer
02-22-2014, 09:38 PM
Then how has he never been kicked out of a game before? Certainly a situation has happened before where late he thought his team would lose and maybe throwing out the 'bad call' epic meltdown might win them a game later against that team. I find it hard to believe this would not pop up until now if this is such a tactical and not emotional play.

Dude lost it. He could have easily argued against the call and then use his presser to pound it home if he wanted to plant a seed for a following game without taking the air out of any chance left to win in this game.

He wanted his first trip to be memorable. Not sure how many more seasons these two coaches will have against each other but the first two games have been entertaining.

rthomas
02-22-2014, 09:39 PM
USA Today may have the greatest headline I've ever seen regarding the game: "Jim Boeheim loses his mind at referees, gets ejected against Duke"

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/02/jim-boeheim-ejected-duke-syracuse/

I agree, it's a shame to see it end that way, but funny is funny.

This ranks up there with Deano getting ejected in the waning minute against Kansas in the final 4, 1991.

EasternDB
02-22-2014, 09:39 PM
Can we all agree that the foul on Hood at Syracuse was an easier call and should have been made?

I agree. Lets not forget about the Flagrant Foul on Andre in the first half.

ArnieMc
02-22-2014, 09:39 PM
"I just thought that was the worst call of the year, that's all," Boeheim said. "I hated to see the game decided on that call."

Uh, no, that wasn't even close to being the worst call of the game. The worst call of the year was the flagrant on Dawkins. We should send the ACC a tape and try to get Jamie Luckie suspended for that one.

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:39 PM
I have ran the play 5 times in slow motion 2 different shots and it still is a charge.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on that call. As am I. We just happen to have different opinions on this issue.

But again, let's move on. You (and others) aren't going to convince me, and I (and others) aren't going to convince you.

Let's move on from the call and celebrate the win. No use arguing about it any further. We've all made our points on that play about as well as we're going to do.

LBF
02-22-2014, 09:42 PM
I think its important to note that we only made 7 3's at 33%. It goes to show you that we don't have to shoot lights out to win. What we have to do, is play tough nosed tenacious defense. Capel made this point about the UNC game in the pregame radio show. We lost the UNC game not so much because of the evaporation of the offense (although it was vapor for a very long time). We lost it because we failed to stay and play intense defense in the second half. Tonight was different. We buttoned down when it counted most. The defensive stand that culminated in parkers tough rebound was the sequence of the game for me.

CDu
02-22-2014, 09:43 PM
If one agrees that Boeheim did this purposely and did not simply lose control of himself, then it seems logical that the point of the tirade was to influence the officials going forward, since it was too late to have any further affect on the officiating in this particular game.

Or that he simply wanted to make the point that the officials blew that call...


I can't help but think watching the officiating in Duke games recently that the idea out there, which really exists, that officials have unfairly favored Duke over the years with calls has resulted in officials having in the back of their minds an inclination not to feed that perception.

Certainly possible. That doesn't mean that Boeheim's outburst was some sort of diabolical plot to promote that theory for games against Duke that may not even happen for another calendar year. Just seems too ridiculously extreme. The simpler argument would seem the more plausible: that he just really felt it was a bad call, and REALLY wanted to let the officials know it.

BlueDevilBrowns
02-22-2014, 09:44 PM
This article tells Syracuse "welcome to the ACC", as in - "get used to being hosed at Cameron", completely ignoring the fact that they've been benefiting from questionable referring all year.

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/22/jim-boeheim-goes-nuts-gets-ejected-in-loss-to-duke-video/

kAzE
02-22-2014, 09:44 PM
We finally win a close one.

So Maryland and Virginia don't count as close? Not to mention Vermont, but I think we'd all like to forget that one.

I initially also thought that Fair's foot was out of bounds at the start of the penultimate play, but on review, I believe he got it off the sideline just as he caught the ball. I thought it was a charge, but I'm surprised that we got the call. That's a tough call to make on such a huge play, and I gotta give that ref credit for having the balls to make that call in such a big moment.

sporthenry
02-22-2014, 09:45 PM
To say our offense does not look sharp against zones lately would be a severe understatement. Half the time we just pass it back and forth on the perimeter for 25 seconds and then hoist up a three.

I genuinely don't understand why we can't scheme against zones better. Any ideas?

Really, 1.1 points per possession against a team that gives up 93.2 points per 100 possessions? They shot 59.3 from the FT line. If they shoot their normal 73% from the line (something the zone has nothing to do with). they score 3-4 more points. That gets them to 1.16 points per possession. That would be better than points per possession from a kenpom standpoint taking into account their defense as well as the home court advantage.

And that isn't including the missed open 3's by Hood. Once they started getting it to the high post, the offense opened up a ton. Then, the offense stalled with stall ball which isn't indicative of their whole offense.

The Gordog
02-22-2014, 09:45 PM
3942

Sorry the image is not rotated right, but you can see that Fair's front foot has not even come down before Hood was set.

1. You can't see his feet.
2. He hopped a smidgen forward after that.

Look, I LOVE Duke, but that call usually goes the other way. In the end it's just Karma as these things tend to balance out over time.

Jarhead
02-22-2014, 09:49 PM
They were probably seeing what I saw. The defender also has to be set and in place BEFORE the shooter makes his move and leaves his feet.

We were lucky. It should have been an "and one" and a tie game at that point.

NO complaints about the refs tonight!!

No, it was a player control foul. Duke would have possession on the base line with 10 seconds to go, and the score 62-60 in Duke's favor. Game over. The call? I replayed the play several, and Hood was in the perfect position. It was not a block. I watched it in slow motion, his feet were down on the floor, and so were the shooter's. Hood did not move until he was hit by the shooter. It was not a block.

GGLC
02-22-2014, 09:50 PM
Really, 1.1 points per possession against a team that gives up 93.2 points per 100 possessions? They shot 59.3 from the FT line. If they shoot their normal 73% from the line (something the zone has nothing to do with). they score 3-4 more points. That gets them to 1.16 points per possession. That would be better than points per possession from a kenpom standpoint taking into account their defense as well as the home court advantage.

And that isn't including the missed open 3's by Hood. Once they started getting it to the high post, the offense opened up a ton. Then, the offense stalled with stall ball which isn't indicative of their whole offense.

If you think our offense looked sharp today, I have no idea what to tell you. We threw up a fair number of junky-looking shots that went in. We had very little ball movement or cuts, particularly in the second half, with the exception of some nice Rasheed plays.

Rich
02-22-2014, 09:53 PM
Really, 1.1 points per possession against a team that gives up 93.2 points per 100 possessions? They shot 59.3 from the FT line. If they shoot their normal 73% from the line (something the zone has nothing to do with). they score 3-4 more points. That gets them to 1.16 points per possession. That would be better than points per possession from a kenpom standpoint taking into account their defense as well as the home court advantage.

And that isn't including the missed open 3's by Hood. Once they started getting it to the high post, the offense opened up a ton. Then, the offense stalled with stall ball which isn't indicative of their whole offense.

Stats show we were 13-25 from FT line (52%), not to mention missed front ends. If we hit 73% from FT line then this game isn't close.

sporthenry
02-22-2014, 09:55 PM
Stats show we were 13-25 from FT line (52%), not to mention missed front ends. If we hit 73% from FT line then this game isn't close.

Good call. I was looking at Kenpom's box score and used the 2P% so that would be an additional 6-7 points.

Marc81
02-22-2014, 09:56 PM
Did anyone else notice they had a few times when the camera was on the duke bench and Justice Winslow was in attendance?

_Gary
02-22-2014, 09:56 PM
If one agrees that Boeheim did this purposely and did not simply lose control of himself, then it seems logical that the point of the tirade was to influence the officials going forward, since it was too late to have any further affect on the officiating in this particular game.

I can't help but think watching the officiating in Duke games recently that the idea out there, which really exists, that officials have unfairly favored Duke over the years with calls has resulted in officials having in the back of their minds an inclination not to feed that perception.

Yep. That's been a concern of mine for quite some time now, and I thought we had finally moved past it (after the 'twerping' being front and center through the 2000's). But Boeheim's antics will do nothing but resurrect it. I'm really disappointed in a guy I thought had more class. And I'm not really talking about his outburst at the time of the call. That's "heat of the moment" stuff. I'm talking about his post-game presser comments. "Worst call of the year" is absolutely ridiculous. So I guess we'll have to think of a new name for the phenomenon now that Maryland is going bye-bye.

gofurman
02-22-2014, 09:57 PM
Cant argue with a great win but some thoughts


Hope we get back to hitting a few 40% three pt nights. gotta get back to the mean.. granted - could be tired legs and that vs unc and cuse. Cuse esp have long great defenders and they seemed to hedge more toward the three tonight than usual with their zone.
Q1 - * Is this correct or just my perception?? We sure took less threes this time vs them and seemed to go inside a lot more which I liked. Actually got their guys in foul trouble.

Q2 - where is Matt Jones for 5-10 minutes of rest of the guards? He seemed a defensive star in the making.

Q3 - Dawkins gets 8 minutes? That's a little bit short to determine how hot someone is isn't it? I woulda thought you give him 14 minutes or so.. Maybe it was the great D we were playing and he isn't always the best at that ???????

Any insights here appreciated !

Way to go Plumlee - He and Amile are getting to be a good pair now !!!!!!!

Duvall
02-22-2014, 09:59 PM
need to practice free throws, look like unx out there tonight

Duke is still leading the league in FT shooting on the season. It's not that big a deal.

Duke_92
02-22-2014, 10:01 PM
Did anyone else notice they had a few times when the camera was on the duke bench and Justice Winslow was in attendance?
He was also at the UNC game. Must have been here on a long weekend.

Atlanta Duke
02-22-2014, 10:02 PM
"Worst call of the year" is absolutely ridiculous. So I guess we'll have to think of a new name for the phenomenon now that Maryland is going bye-bye.

This tweet provides a possibility:)

Adam Gold ‏@AGoldFan

Orange is the new red. This series will very nicely replace Duke-MD on the calendar.

https://twitter.com/AGoldFan/status/437399970883579904

jipops
02-22-2014, 10:02 PM
This may negate the entire charge call debate.

CJ Fair, right before his baseline drive.

3946

mr. synellinden
02-22-2014, 10:05 PM
Any idea who came to the game tonight? Would have been a great game to entertain recruits!

Justise was there. And he was at the UNC game but I don't know about any uncommitted recruits.

LBF
02-22-2014, 10:06 PM
This may negate the entire charge call debate.

CJ Fair, right before his baseline drive.

3946

I hadn't seen this angle. This looks almost conclusive. I can't quite tell if his heels are down but, wow!

jipops
02-22-2014, 10:07 PM
It's tough to tell for sure, but he looks barely in bounds to me right there. He's not touching the floor with his heels, so as long as the side of his foot isn't touching the sideline, he's fine, at least at that particular moment. A little too fuzzy to be sure, though.

His left foot clearly isn't touching the floor, but what about his right?

Wildling
02-22-2014, 10:10 PM
This may negate the entire charge call debate.

CJ Fair, right before his baseline drive.

3946

I showed a friend of mine who is a Syracuse fan that pic. He still says his feet weren't out of bounds when he had the ball.

He also is steadfast that the refs lost the game for them and not Jimmy blowing his top.

Knowing SU fans all my life, they are insufferable. And this game solidifies their thinking that Duke gets all the calls. We didn't beat them fair and square.It will never end............:(

Atlanta Duke
02-22-2014, 10:18 PM
Link to ESPN video excerpts from Coach Boeheim's post-game presser

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=10504577

This was not a Bob Knight type post-game rant - Coach Boeheim was low key but dug in about the call

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 10:23 PM
Great game. Was fortunate enough to be able to attend in person.

The crowd was electric and very engaged. I think that energy helped feed the team.

Count me as one of the people who didn't like the Gbinjie taunts. He didn't really do anything to deserve it. Plus, I *do* miss him!

Being at the game was awesome, but you don't get the benefit of replays. So, without seeing a replay, I'd say the charge call was questionable. And given the fact that MOST officials swallow the whistle in the late game scenarios, watching Syracuse getting the benefit of many calls this year (the Hood foul in the Carrier Dome, the TJ Warren non-continuation), the lack of favorable calls on close calls Duke got this game and the last game, I was absolutely SHOCKED that Duke got that call. Even more surprised when Boeheim threw his temper tantrum. (I made sure to wave "bye bye" to him on his way out)

After seeing the replay, I think the call was still close, but I'd lean toward the charge call. I'd have preferred not to have the call happen there at all because of the "Duke gets all the calls" refrain, but I don't care. I'll take it. It's "basketball justice."

Hilarious how many media outlets focus on that call as the reason why Duke won. Yahoo says "Late foul helps Duke." I suppose that's accurate. But know what helped even more? Two technicals on a coach that lost his marbles.

Positives:

- Loved that Coach K reads the boards and saw that after the Syracuse loss, DBR said to put Parker or Hood at the high post and let them abuse Syracuse.
- Loved that Rakeem Christmas picked up 4 fouls, because he owed us a few after the Carrier Dome
- Loved the defense; they held Syracuse to 28% shooting in the first half, 39% overall. CJ Fair didn't kill us. Jerami Grant didn't shoot 10-10 from the line. And Ennis looked mortal. Cooney? I think his picture is on a milk carton, because we're still looking for him (1-5, 4 points)
- Loved MP3's contributions. Hated that he couldn't play more in the 2nd half (I read it was due to cramps)
- Loved that Sheed had 7 assists, including a nice dish to MP3
- Loved that Duke didn't get killed on the boards

Negatives:

- the offense still needs to be repaired. It looked disjointed at times. Jumpers are off, but that could be tired legs.
- HATED sticking Parker in the corner and standing there. You're wasting your best player. Pass him the ball or have him run baseline. Syracuse started to just ignore that he was there.
- hated seeing MP3 get the ball at the high post and have a WIDE OPEN lane and not even turn and look. Coach K fixed that and he got a dunk attempt off it later.
- hated the Andre Dawkins "intentional" foul. He did touch the guy, but didn't impede him. But I guess karma set in later, eh?
- hated how much contact we're still seeing in the paint without calls. It's a slugfest down there.
- hated how Amile was getting pushed around and getting the short end of the stick on calls.

I could harp more on the officiating, but considering Duke won and there was a bit of controversy at the end, I'll just stop there. ;)

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 10:24 PM
This may negate the entire charge call debate.

CJ Fair, right before his baseline drive.

3946

Interesting that ESPN isn't replaying that over and over...

jdj4duke
02-22-2014, 10:25 PM
Wasn't the line on this game 6? Why I never bet on sports. At the 10 second mark there were a lot of folks in Vegas who were real happy. Not so many at the end.

Thrilled to win this game and the way we overcame the flagrant on Dawkins :)

Commentators now, not just at our games, fill way to much time blathering about calls; how did they miss that, that's a tough call, and just second guessing way too many calls. IIRC a few years ago, it was unusual for announcers even to mention any but the most egregious call or foul disparity. More recently, it's a rare game where the analysis doesn't include several opinions about calls. It gives every fan the chance to feel victimized. Some fans just like beings victims more than others.

DBFAN
02-22-2014, 10:27 PM
This may negate the entire charge call debate.

CJ Fair, right before his baseline drive.

3946

I've seen this pic some and my question is does he have the ball there. I just can't tell, really I just can't see my second question is if he didn't have the ball at that moment, can he be the first to touch it coming back in because obviously he went out.

CDu
02-22-2014, 10:29 PM
Thrilled to win this game and the way we overcame the flagrant on Dawkins :)

Talk about a bad call...

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 10:30 PM
I've seen this pic some and my question is does he have the ball there. I just can't tell, really I just can't see my second question is if he didn't have the ball at that moment, can he be the first to touch it coming back in because obviously he went out.

I think the notion that he is out of bounds with the ball is much easier to discern than the Hood block/charge. ;)

1 24 90
02-22-2014, 10:30 PM
Any idea who came to the game tonight? Would have been a great game to entertain recruits!

Justise Winslow was there along with Brandon Ingram & Matt Ryan. Hopefully Justise did some good recruiting during the game.

CDu
02-22-2014, 10:32 PM
This may negate the entire charge call debate.

CJ Fair, right before his baseline drive.

3946

Just really hard to say for sure. Are his heels on the ground (most specifically his right heel), or is he on his toes (as players often are in prep for a drive)? Is his left foot even out of bounds at all (hard to tell from that angle)? It's VERY close for sure, though. Definitely as close as the call seconds later.

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 10:32 PM
Boeheim needs a hug:

3949

For the record, Digger thought it was a charge. However, Jay Williams thought it was a blocking foul. WTF JAY

gillmic
02-22-2014, 10:33 PM
39503951
I just rewound it a couple of times and I disagree that Hood was sliding to his right. In fact, Hood was straightening up over his established foot position, not sliding to his right. This had the effect of moving toward Fair, but Hood is entitled to maintain verticality over his feet. Yes, Fair didn't catch him square in the chest, because Fair tried to slide to his left, but not enough to avoid the charge.

DBFAN
02-22-2014, 10:34 PM
Boeheim needs a hug:

3949

For the record, Digger thought it was a charge. However, Jay Williams thought it was a blocking foul. WTF JAY

Jay was also very sure that Hood didn't get fouled in game 1. Until the next day when he retracted that statement SMH

DU82
02-22-2014, 10:34 PM
I've seen this pic some and my question is does he have the ball there. I just can't tell, really I just can't see my second question is if he didn't have the ball at that moment, can he be the first to touch it coming back in because obviously he went out.

If he went out on his own (not forced out by a defensive play) then no, he can't be the first to touch it.

In another game at Cameron this season (don't remember the opponent right now) they were using a very low baseline screen, which forced our defender to be pushed out of bounds (legally). But since the offensive player receiving the benefit of the screen went out of bounds "voluntarily" and then touched it first (pass without going to somebody else) then it's a violation. They didn't call it the first time, but did the second time they did it. Forced them to move the screen up the lane a bit.

DBFAN
02-22-2014, 10:36 PM
If he went out on his own (not forced out by a defensive play) then no, he can't be the first to touch it.

In another game at Cameron this season (don't remember the opponent right now) they were using a very low baseline screen, which forced our defender to be pushed out of bounds (legally). But since the offensive player receiving the benefit of the screen went out of bounds "voluntarily" and then touched it first (pass without going to somebody else) then it's a violation. They didn't call it the first time, but did the second time they did it. Forced them to move the screen up the lane a bit.

Thanks

I had been trying to receive some clarification on that, because I want to think that rule does not exist in the NBA. so I wasn't sure

LBF
02-22-2014, 10:36 PM
Both J. Williams and JB always seem to go out of their way to avoid showing any Duke bias to the point where it's obvious. Even Duke Vitale, usually oblivious to bias related criticisms, has obviously been trying to avoid showing bias toward Duke.

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 10:37 PM
Wasn't the line on this game 6? Why I never bet on sports. At the 10 second mark there were a lot of folks in Vegas who were real happy. Not so many at the end.

Thrilled to win this game and the way we overcame the flagrant on Dawkins :)

Commentators now, not just at our games, fill way to much time blathering about calls; how did they miss that, that's a tough call, and just second guessing way too many calls. IIRC a few years ago, it was unusual for announcers even to mention any but the most egregious call or foul disparity. More recently, it's a rare game where the analysis doesn't include several opinions about calls. It gives every fan the chance to feel victimized. Some fans just like beings victims more than others.

I disagree. Watch the replay of the Duke-UNC game from 1992. The announcers were harping on calls there, too, in real time.

The video is actually posted on this site:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?33163-1992-Duke-vs-UNC-%28Laettner-s-final-home-game%29&highlight=1992

Dukehky
02-22-2014, 10:38 PM
Sean May tweeted that he thought it was a bad call, and that he knew Duke would find a way to "cheat"

Sean was an AFAM studies major at UNC. Curious he would use that word. I think his blood sugar may be low. Maybe he needs to eat a handful of crepes before bed while he's in France instead of the NBA. He couldn't even cut it for the Bobcats... I hate Carolina so much, and everything associated with their basketball team, except Rasheed Wallace, who just amuses me to an extraordinary level.

duketri
02-22-2014, 10:38 PM
He's got his hands on the ball and he's on the line. From the previously posted angle, you can't completely tell if his right heel is up. But in looking at the other angle and how he caught the ball, it's pretty definitive that he caught the ball with his right foot on the line.




I've seen this pic some and my question is does he have the ball there. I just can't tell, really I just can't see my second question is if he didn't have the ball at that moment, can he be the first to touch it coming back in because obviously he went out.

bedeviled
02-22-2014, 10:38 PM
Somebody just became a meme:
3953
3954
3955
(source (http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2014-02-22/jim-boeheim-freaks-out-bad-call-syracuse-duke-flips-out-photo-video-baywatch-michael-jackson))

MarkD83
02-22-2014, 10:39 PM
Did anyone else notice they had a few times when the camera was on the duke bench and Justice Winslow was in attendance?

I believe Justice was also behind the bench at the UNC game.

killerleft
02-22-2014, 10:40 PM
I've seen this pic some and my question is does he have the ball there. I just can't tell, really I just can't see my second question is if he didn't have the ball at that moment, can he be the first to touch it coming back in because obviously he went out.

If he didn't have the ball in his hands, he's very good with the no-look catch.:D

NYBri
02-22-2014, 10:40 PM
It was a charge for the simple reason it was called a charge. Balls are balls, strikes are strikes not because where the pitch is thrown, but because the ump raises his arm or not. Zebra blew the whistle and put his hand behind his neck, therefore it's a charge. Everything else is noise.

CDu
02-22-2014, 10:40 PM
39503951

Those images only show that Hood's body is in a different position than it was before Fair took off. Clearly his upper body has moved forward. In real time, I think it also moves to the right. But I'm not quite sure why you think those two stills definitively show that he didn't lean to the right.

Regardless, as many have said, lots of bad calls (and no-calls) both ways in that game. Harping on any one call as the deciding factor of the game is silly. We can debate whether or not the right call was made there. But unless we want to go through every call, it would certainly be silly to suggest it alone decided the game.

Did we benefit from the call? Absolutely (that's true regardless of whether it was right or not). Had the call gone the other way (and it certainly usually does go the other way - or at least a no-call - in that late-game scenario), Syracuse would be tied and possibly having the opportunity to take a lead. Of course, we could have made a shot on the last possession to win anyway (who knows?). But the charge call all but ended things. Giving us the ball with a 2-point lead and just 10 seconds would have made it VERY difficult for Cuse to win. Not impossible (we could easily have missed a free throw and allowed Cuse a chance to tie), but very difficult. So given the situation, that call absolutely aided our win. But it didn't decide the game on its own.

jipops
02-22-2014, 10:40 PM
Just really hard to say for sure. Are his heels on the ground (most specifically his right heel), or is he on his toes (as players often are in prep for a drive)? Is his left foot even out of bounds at all (hard to tell from that angle)? It's VERY close for sure, though. Definitely as close as the call seconds later.

Well his weight looks to be on his right just a bit. After all he does go left on this move. So if he is still on his toes on that right foot then that would be kind of impressive. Go ahead and try to stand on your toes and put your weight on one side, not real easy.

It also looks like he does has the ball because he is facing the basket. Otherwise it would be a no-look catch.

InSpades
02-22-2014, 10:42 PM
Positives:
We beat the #1 team in the country!
Marshall has looked better and better of late... was looking for him in the 2nd half but apparently he was cramping up... too bad, we could have used him out there.
Hood looked really good catching the ball in the middle of the zone.
Cook and Sulaimon are both playing some very good basketball.
Jabari started very slowly (w/ lots of turnovers) but came alive as the game went on. Great game from him.

Negatives:
Free throw shooting drives me insane.
I (like others) hate the slow down offense. We got them in foul trouble and then we slowed it down to a crawl? It takes time to get a good shot against the zone and we were doing them favors waiting to initiate offense until there was under 20 on the shot clock.

Great win. Let's build from here!

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 10:43 PM
Sean May tweeted that he thought it was a bad call, and that he knew Duke would find a way to "cheat"

Sean was an AFAM studies major at UNC. Curious he would use that word. I think his blood sugar may be low. Maybe he needs to eat a handful of crepes before bed while he's in France instead of the NBA. He couldn't even cut it for the Bobcats... I hate Carolina so much, and everything associated with their basketball team, except Rasheed Wallace, who just amuses me to an extraordinary level.

Always cracks me up when people say "Duke cheats" when Duke gets a call.

Cheating would be:

- spraying cooking spray on your jersey to prevent an OL from being able to block you as easily
- taking steroids to hit a baseball farther
- punching a guy in the nads and not getting caught
- keeping sandpaper or vaseline on your person to make the ball curve better, or corking your bat

Cheating is not getting a call from a 3rd party that is 50/50.

And if Sean May actually had paid attention in his Swahili class, he'd have learned the word is "kudanganya."

MarkD83
02-22-2014, 10:44 PM
Sean May tweeted that he thought it was a bad call, and that he knew Duke would find a way to "cheat"

Sean was an AFAM studies major at UNC. Curious he would use that word. I think his blood sugar may be low. Maybe he needs to eat a handful of crepes before bed while he's in France instead of the NBA. He couldn't even cut it for the Bobcats... I hate Carolina so much, and everything associated with their basketball team, except Rasheed Wallace, who just amuses me to an extraordinary level.

Because of his major maybe he is some sort of expert.

Son of Mojo
02-22-2014, 10:44 PM
Jay was also very sure that Hood didn't get fouled in game 1. Until the next day when he retracted that statement SMH

I remember Jason Williams very fondly. This guy "jay" I do not recognize. At times I swear he's only saying things he's being told to say. Lots to still work on (missed shots and FTs, rebounding, when not to sit on ball), but nothing that can't be worked on. Still can't believe the hubbub about the call. Further views of it just reinforces to me that the refs did get ONE call in the game right. Our post players will probably need stitches for the hacks to their collective arms not called tonight.

gwlaw99
02-22-2014, 10:45 PM
I showed a friend of mine who is a Syracuse fan that pic. He still says his feet weren't out of bounds when he had the ball.

He also is steadfast that the refs lost the game for them and not Jimmy blowing his top.

Knowing SU fans all my life, they are insufferable. And this game solidifies their thinking that Duke gets all the calls. We didn't beat them fair and square.It will never end............:(

Even if he ignores his eyes at that point, they can't be on the line when the ball is in the air.

jipops
02-22-2014, 10:45 PM
Sean May tweeted that he thought it was a bad call, and that he knew Duke would find a way to "cheat"

Sean was an AFAM studies major at UNC. Curious he would use that word. I think his blood sugar may be low. Maybe he needs to eat a handful of crepes before bed while he's in France instead of the NBA. He couldn't even cut it for the Bobcats... I hate Carolina so much, and everything associated with their basketball team, except Rasheed Wallace, who just amuses me to an extraordinary level.

Sure he didn't mean "eat"?

jdj4duke
02-22-2014, 10:48 PM
I disagree. Watch the replay of the Duke-UNC game from 1992. The announcers were harping on calls there, too, in real time.

The video is actually posted on this site:

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?33163-1992-Duke-vs-UNC-%28Laettner-s-final-home-game%29&highlight=1992

Yes, you are right. I watched that the other day, and noticed the same thing. Still, I think it's more widespread now. Or maybe just more incessant carping on readily accessible keyboards. Either way, or in any time frame, it's annoying.

Lulu
02-22-2014, 10:49 PM
...
Negatives:
- HATED sticking Parker in the corner and standing there. You're wasting your best player. Pass him the ball or have him run baseline. Syracuse started to just ignore that he was there. ...

We need a separate thread for the attention-hogging charge discussion.

That said, I couldn't agree more with the quote above. Was pulling my hair out watching Parker just stand there, especially when 'Cuse was in serious foul trouble with their big men starting around the 7:00 mark. First, we didn't take advantage of their smaller lineup making almost no attempt to get the ball to Parker inside (mostly just launched a few 3s), and then when the big guys got back on the floor we made no attempt to go inside to Parker or anyone and attack their foul trouble (we all know there's a lot of matador defense in these situations with 4 fouls).

I KNEW we were going to lose this game when we started taking the air out of the ball with almost 4 minutes left (and what, a 2 or 4 point lead???). Against good teams like Syracuse that always seems to lead to us just getting poor shots at the end of the shot clock, while they've got plenty of time to continue playing their game, finding good shots, and scoring. I just knew we were doomed, but who could count on those last few calls. If only K had blown up the first time around on that Hood non-call, we could have taken a lot of the fun out of their win, too.

vick
02-22-2014, 10:50 PM
Positives:
We beat the #1 team in the country!
Marshall has looked better and better of late... was looking for him in the 2nd half but apparently he was cramping up... too bad, we could have used him out there.
Hood looked really good catching the ball in the middle of the zone.
Cook and Sulaimon are both playing some very good basketball.
Jabari started very slowly (w/ lots of turnovers) but came alive as the game went on. Great game from him.

Negatives:
Free throw shooting drives me insane.
I (like others) hate the slow down offense. We got them in foul trouble and then we slowed it down to a crawl? It takes time to get a good shot against the zone and we were doing them favors waiting to initiate offense until there was under 20 on the shot clock.

Great win. Let's build from here!

On the stallball aspect, one thing worth remembering is that while Syracuse in general had more foul trouble, Amile had four and it wasn't obvious whether Plumlee could be remotely effective due to cramps. Given that, minimizing possessions has a fairly high value, because a single foul on Amile means we're stuck with either an extremely small lineup, or using Josh and Semi at center.

NashvilleDevil
02-22-2014, 10:51 PM
We need a separate thread for the attention-hogging charge discussion.

That said, I couldn't agree more with the quote above. Was pulling my hair out watching Parker just stand there, especially when 'Cuse was in serious foul trouble with their big men starting around the 7:00 mark. First, we didn't take advantage of their smaller lineup making almost no attempt to get the ball to Parker inside (mostly just launched a few 3s), and then when the big guys got back on the floor we made no attempt to go inside to Parker or anyone and attack their foul trouble (we all know there's a lot of matador defense in these situations with 4 fouls).

I KNEW we were going to lose this game when we started taking the air out of the ball with almost 4 minutes left (and what, a 2 or 4 point lead???). Against good teams like Syracuse that always seems to lead to us just getting poor shots at the end of the shot clock, while they've got plenty of time to continue playing their game, finding good shots, and scoring. I just knew we were doomed, but who could count on those last few calls. If only K had blown up the first time around on that Hood non-call, we could have taken a lot of the fun out of their win, too.

You mean being so negative like several posters have been is not taking the fun out of this win?

MarkD83
02-22-2014, 10:55 PM
We need a separate thread for the attention-hogging charge discussion.

I KNEW we were going to lose this game when we started taking the air out of the ball with almost 4 minutes left (and what, a 2 or 4 point lead???). Against good teams like Syracuse that always seems to lead to us just getting poor shots at the end of the shot clock, while they've got plenty of time to continue playing their game, finding good shots, and scoring. I just knew we were doomed, but who could count on those last few calls. If only K had blown up the first time around on that Hood non-call, we could have taken a lot of the fun out of their win, too.

The stall ball at the end of the game always makes me nervous but I have to believe our percentage of wins is really high. Also, in this game if we hit the free throws the stall ball works.

CDu
02-22-2014, 10:57 PM
Well his weight looks to be on his right just a bit. After all he does go left on this move. So if he is still on his toes on that right foot then that would be kind of impressive. Go ahead and try to stand on your toes and put your weight on one side, not real easy.

Actually, it looks like his weight is more on his left foot. And if you watch the replay, he immediately shuffles forward with his right foot (almost to the 3pt line) and then drives left. So I think he's using his left foot as his initial pivot foot (and thus is putting more weight on his left leg). I don't think it's at all out of the question for his right heel to be off the ground at that point. Whether or not it was, I don't know. And I also can't tell if his left foot is or is not in bounds.

Of course, as with the other call, it really doesn't matter. He was called in bounds, therefore he was in bounds by rule.


It also looks like he does has the ball because he is facing the basket. Otherwise it would be a no-look catch.

No doubt about that.

brevity
02-22-2014, 11:01 PM
Sean May tweeted that he thought it was a bad call, and that he knew Duke would find a way to "cheat"

Sean was an AFAM studies major at UNC. Curious he would use that word. I think his blood sugar may be low. Maybe he needs to eat a handful of crepes before bed while he's in France instead of the NBA. He couldn't even cut it for the Bobcats... I hate Carolina so much, and everything associated with their basketball team, except Rasheed Wallace, who just amuses me to an extraordinary level.


Because of his major maybe he is some sort of expert.

Aw, leave Sean May alone. I don't question his education. The only thing he ever cheated on was his diet.

CDu
02-22-2014, 11:03 PM
The stall ball at the end of the game always makes me nervous but I have to believe our percentage of wins is really high. Also, in this game if we hit the free throws the stall ball works.

Yup. If Parker hits one of two or if Sulaimon hits two of two, it's a much different game in the final seconds. If Parker hits two of two or Parker hits one and Sulaimon hits two, then it is a two-possession game with under 25 seconds.

Also, with the zone defense, it's hard to say whether or not we were ever actually in stallball. Were we intentionally stalling, or where we just confused by the zone and unsure of how to attack it? I tend to think it was the latter.

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 11:05 PM
Yup. If Parker hits one of two or if Sulaimon hits two of two, it's a much different game in the final seconds. If Parker hits two of two or Parker hits one and Sulaimon hits two, then it is a two-possession game with under 25 seconds.

Also, with the zone defense, it's hard to say whether or not we were ever actually in stallball. Were we intentionally stalling, or where we just confused by the zone and unsure of how to attack it? I tend to think it was the latter.

No, they were just holding the ball at times around 3 minutes. I think it was stall ball. Didn't mind it though...

Native
02-22-2014, 11:08 PM
1) TT played his butt off tonight. Cooney was 1/5 for 4 points, IIRC, and it's largely because Ty had him like white on rice all night. Outstanding defensive performance.

2) Marshall also played his butt off tonight. I really thought he was going to have a Zoubekian-like outburst before he tweaked his [leg/ankle/something]. We'll need him going forward —I'm a real wanker for saying this.he was dynamite tonight. Brings a TON of energy to the floor, especially in Cameron. Everyone gets fired up when Marshall gets out there.

3) Earlier in K-Ville (around 2PM or so), Jabari and Rasheed came outside and played a little two-on-two, first with some really young kids and then with some Crazies. I've always said it's the great ones at Duke who make an effort to connect with the rest of the students; this year's team has that in spades.

CDu
02-22-2014, 11:15 PM
No, they were just holding the ball at times around 3 minutes. I think it was stall ball. Didn't mind it though...

Could be right; I don't really remember (and spent too much time looking at the last minute :)). I agree that it seemed a reasonable strategy. Gotta hit those FT though.

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 11:16 PM
Could be right; I don't really remember (and spent too much time looking at the last minute :)). I agree that it seemed a reasonable strategy. Gotta hit those FT though.

Yea, I'm hoping the FT woes the past couple games were fatigue related. If Duke hits FTs at a normal clip, they potentially win the UNC game and the Cuse game might not have needed controversy.

jipops
02-22-2014, 11:21 PM
Yea, I'm hoping the FT woes the past couple games were fatigue related. If Duke hits FTs at a normal clip, they potentially win the UNC game and the Cuse game might not have needed controversy.

Include our average clip in 3pt %, and this game isn't that close. And we had a lot of good looks that were missed. Still, we shot 48% so that's pretty good.

gwlaw99
02-22-2014, 11:21 PM
The stall ball at the end of the game always makes me nervous but I have to believe our percentage of wins is really high. Also, in this game if we hit the free throws the stall ball works.

The difference is that it takes a lot of ball movement to get the zone out of sync. You can't do that in 12 seconds.

CDu
02-22-2014, 11:21 PM
Yea, I'm hoping the FT woes the past couple games were fatigue related. If Duke hits FTs at a normal clip, they potentially win the UNC game and the Cuse game might not have needed controversy.

Definitely something to keep an eye on down moving forward. Hopefully these two days off will refresh the legs a bit. But we are gonna have to improve on that come tourney time.

FerryFor50
02-22-2014, 11:23 PM
Include our average clip in 3pt %, and this game isn't that close. And we had a lot of good looks that were missed. Still, we shot 48% so that's pretty good.

Yep. Same with the UNC game. Fatigue could have been a factor on the jumpers as well...

Utley
02-22-2014, 11:23 PM
The most important takeaway to me was that we played great defense for the last 30 minutes. That's the ticket for the rest of the year. Our D has generally come a LONG way. The O will come and go but the D will give us a chance every game.

This was such an intense game with such a crazy ending that it's hard to forget that was a pretty impressive last week.

One the negative - I'm not sure if even great day is going to help us if we just have Cook and Sheed pass back and forth until 10 seconds left on a possession. I just don't get and nothing I have heard helps me get it more.

SoCalDukeFan
02-22-2014, 11:25 PM
It was a charge because it was called a charge. Syracuse was still in the game until JB ended it. They should have played on.

Fair was on the line when he caught the ball. Too bad that was not called.

Don't know what happened to our free throw shooting. We will to do better to make a deep run.

Loved the play of Marshall.

It's interesting that at this stage the team is evolving.

SoCal

Lulu
02-22-2014, 11:28 PM
re stall ball...

-Let's not forget they missed a free throw or two near the end if we're justifying it with the fact duke missed fts.

-We also got extremely lucky when we were stalling around the 3 min mark (up 2) and sulaimon dribbled the ball off his leg near the end of the shot clock almost losing possession. this got the d out of sorts (going for the ball) and we were lucky sulaimon was able to knock it to hood for the deuce with about 2 secs left. I wouldn't want to rely on that play every game.

-I didn't mind it with about 1:30 left while we were up three.

Only the W justifies the stall ball tonight in my mind, and man were we lucky. I guess no one else was going crazy watching this and it's just me.

ChrisP
02-22-2014, 11:35 PM
re stall ball...

-Let's not forget they missed a free throw or two near the end if we're justifying it with the fact duke missed fts.

-We also got extremely lucky when we were stalling around the 3 min mark (up 2) and sulaimon dribbled the ball off his leg near the end of the shot clock almost losing possession. this got the d out of sorts (going for the ball) and we were lucky sulaimon was able to knock it to hood for the deuce with about 2 secs left. I wouldn't want to rely on that play every game.

-I didn't mind it with about 1:30 left while we were up three.

Only the W justifies the stall ball tonight in my mind, and man were we lucky. I guess no one else was going crazy watching this and it's just me.

I tend to agree with most all of what you've said here but would also like to point out that on the Sulaimon play you reference (where he sort of scooped the ball to a cutting Hood for a much-needed hoop), Rodney was clearly fouled by Jerami Grant. Grant had his arms up but then lowered them and made a LOT of contact with Hood - so much so that Rodney almost missed the chippie and the ball bounced on the rim a couple times before falling in. It happened at the 2:50 mark if anyone wants to go and look. Should have been an "And 1" situation. Just interesting that everyone is focused on the charge Rodney drew (and yes, it WAS a charge) and not some other plays that the refs CLEARLY blew that could have helped Duke out way more than that charge at the end.

InSpades
02-22-2014, 11:36 PM
On the stallball aspect, one thing worth remembering is that while Syracuse in general had more foul trouble, Amile had four and it wasn't obvious whether Plumlee could be remotely effective due to cramps. Given that, minimizing possessions has a fairly high value, because a single foul on Amile means we're stuck with either an extremely small lineup, or using Josh and Semi at center.

I mean... we went to that "extremely small lineup" voluntarily at the end of the game. It must not be such a huge concern. Syracuse basically plays 7 guys. Falling any of them out is just as big.

Wildling
02-22-2014, 11:37 PM
My god after being on Facebook and reading comments on ESPN, this charge call is taking on a life of it's own.

Was the non call on Hood's dunk attempt this scrutinized? Because that no call was huge in the outcome of that game!

ESPN keeps feeding it too. This is really discrediting a great Duke effort in which they held a pretty potent backcourt to 13 points combined.

jipops
02-22-2014, 11:41 PM
Yep. Same with the UNC game. Fatigue could have been a factor on the jumpers as well...

If fatigue is truly a factor, which I think it is... it's more mental than physical.

We're the best ft shooting team in the conference and we shoot 13-25. That has to be due to some level of fatigue.

gofurman
02-22-2014, 11:47 PM
This may negate the entire charge call debate.

CJ Fair, right before his baseline drive.

3946

Can someone PLEASE send this pic to ESPN (via twitter maybe) ASAP and ask that they post it ? A least send it.. I don't utilize twitter. Thanks! Ask that ESPN discuss it. None of that takes place if the ref realizes the guy was out of bounds ! Please get this pic out there

Also post it on FBook and everywhere. So we can deflect some of his block charge crap

billy
02-22-2014, 11:56 PM
re stall ball...

-Let's not forget they missed a free throw or two near the end if we're justifying it with the fact duke missed fts.

-We also got extremely lucky when we were stalling around the 3 min mark (up 2) and sulaimon dribbled the ball off his leg near the end of the shot clock almost losing possession. this got the d out of sorts (going for the ball) and we were lucky sulaimon was able to knock it to hood for the deuce with about 2 secs left. I wouldn't want to rely on that play every game.

-I didn't mind it with about 1:30 left while we were up three.

Only the W justifies the stall ball tonight in my mind, and man were we lucky. I guess no one else was going crazy watching this and it's just me.

On the postgame radio show with Bob Harris, K said they slowed it down because they were tired (paraphrase). Don't have the link or exact quote. In K I trust

Steven43
02-23-2014, 12:02 AM
I'm sorry, but what in the he double hockey sticks was Jay Bilas talking about regarding the charge Hood took at the end being "questionable"??? His feet were set, he was outside the protected circle area. Come ON JAY!!!

I really haven't been able to stomach Jay Bilas for quite some time now. Well, let me amend that slightly. He gives fairly well-reasoned takes in most of the interviews I hear, but his obvious anti-Duke bias, his smugness and arrogance, and his occasional sucking up to UNC is just more than I can take.

hustleplays
02-23-2014, 12:06 AM
The most important takeaway to me was that we played great defense for the last 30 minutes. That's the ticket for the rest of the year. Our D has generally come a LONG way. The O will come and go but the D will give us a chance every game.

This was such an intense game with such a crazy ending that it's hard to forget that was a pretty impressive last week.

One the negative - I'm not sure if even great day is going to help us if we just have Cook and Sheed pass back and forth until 10 seconds left on a possession. I just don't get and nothing I have heard helps me get it more.

Given, evidently, my need to get a life, and a metaphysical joy from winning this game, I have read every post on this post-game thread. I promise I will not rehash the obvious charge call, the phantom call on Andre, the hammering that our [and sometimes SU's] drivers experience without calls, our drought on the free throw line and our paltry 3 pt shooting, and also our tenacious defense, MP3's game-changing [IMO] big man presence and energy, and our showing heart in the final minutes. I was also encouraged by Jabari's elevating his game from that of a weak, young player [in Coach K's words]in the first half to playing like a very skilled and tough man in the 2nd. This was a very, very good and important win for us.

Given all the obvious givens, including that we have a HOF coach, and world-class coaching staff, who have also had Jim B, World Class Zone Meister, as an assistant coach at the NBA level, WHY DO WE SEEM SO UNPREPARED AND INEPT AT FACING GOOD ZONES??!! This is not a one day preparation issue!! This is not a last minute defense innovation!! The alert reader will notice my over the top ALL CAPS and double exclamation points, and I kinda apologize, but not really. I am channeling my inner JB. I just don't get it. Yes, we did well for stretches last night against the zone. Those several possessions when Rodney was receiving the ball [in a rather loose, spread out 2-3 zone], were exhilarating!! [sorry] I was thrilled by this elevation of offense, compared with our past performances against the zone, including last Thursday against Carolina. And when Syracuse made a rather predictable adjustment -- crimping the middle and pushing it higher -- we seemed befuddled. As numerous posters have mentioned, we did the Cook to Sheed pass around until the shot clock winded down and we made bad, desperate shots. Occasionally, we would get the ball to the guy in the middle, but he didn't seem to know what to do with it -- after SU's adjustment. And my eyeballs told me that we didn't know what to do. Our guards seemed truly baffled. I would think that by now our vaunted coaching staff would have "how to beat a good to great zone" totally in the skill set of our guys.

So much I love and appreciate about our team, our guys and our coaches. But why aren't we great against the zone?

Asked with genuine perplexity, concern and all due humility.

Also, I also hate stall ball with about 4 minutes to go. For one thing, it takes athletes too much out of their intuitive processing and too much into conscious thinking. Same reason great athletes miss a lot of free throws. And in this situation, I feel that we had the advantage if we attack, because of our driving prowess and their foul trouble. But I digress.

Great win tonight. Go Duke!

JPtheGame
02-23-2014, 12:21 AM
Can we take a few seconds and recognize what an asset Josh Hairston has become to this team? The easy joke is that he became more valuable once his minutes dropped to zero but in a way thats true. He's a kid who has spent 4 years at Duke and while his career is winding down he's been completely removed from the rotation. If anyone had an excuse to sulk, Josh would have it. Instead he's always wearing a smile, is constantly in players faces (especially Marshall who basically took his minutes), providing a ton of energy. I just watched sportscenter and the shot of the guys running down the tunnel is priceless. There is Josh at the end of the hall, screaming and bobbing his head and just supporting the team to the best of his ability. What a great example for youngsters like Matt and Semi. I never thought I'd say this but Duke is very lucky to have Josh Hairston.

Kedsy
02-23-2014, 12:24 AM
Wow, Marshall Plumlee has really advanced quickly. If he continues his great play of the last few games, he could easily see the 15+ minutes per game for which many around here have been clamoring.

I do wish Andre could see a few more minutes, though.

Don't look now, but Pomeroy ranks us as the country's 60th best defense.

I'd like to emphasize the previous comments that our 7 for 21 from three-range shows we don't have to shoot lights out to win. Another myth goes sour.


Unless we learn to start shooting fouls we aren't going very far.

Including tonight's horrendous FT shooting and the poor FT shooting against UNC, Duke is still shooting 72.5% from the line this season, good for 81st in the country. I wish people wouldn't make global doomsday declarations based on one or two games.


To say our offense does not look sharp against zones lately would be a severe understatement. Half the time we just pass it back and forth on the perimeter for 25 seconds and then hoist up a three.

I genuinely don't understand why we can't scheme against zones better. Any ideas?


WHY DO WE SEEM SO UNPREPARED AND INEPT AT FACING GOOD ZONES??!!

In our two games against Syracuse, we had the best points per possession performance they've allowed all season and the 3rd best (tonight), which would have been 2nd best if we'd hit a few more free throws. It may not have looked pretty, but Syracuse's zone is tough to score against and we've done better than anyone else in the country against it.


Commentators now, not just at our games, fill way to much time blathering about calls; how did they miss that, that's a tough call, and just second guessing way too many calls. IIRC a few years ago, it was unusual for announcers even to mention any but the most egregious call or foul disparity. More recently, it's a rare game where the analysis doesn't include several opinions about calls. It gives every fan the chance to feel victimized. Some fans just like beings victims more than others.

This has been going on forever. It just seems worse now because of social media.


Also, with the zone defense, it's hard to say whether or not we were ever actually in stallball. Were we intentionally stalling, or where we just confused by the zone and unsure of how to attack it? I tend to think it was the latter.

I agree. My recollection is we played stall ball for two (maybe three, but I don't think so) possessions and after that we were just being ultra-careful against the zone.

sporthenry
02-23-2014, 12:29 AM
I really don't understand the whole, unprepared for the zone thing. UNC didn't play exclusively zone in the 2nd half. Duke was equally inept against the man. Duke put up 1.10 points per possession against the #14 team in the country. Kenpom predicted that we should put up 1.14 points per possession. When you add in the 6-7 points that Duke left on the line to get to their season average, Duke would have been at 1.2 or 1.22 points per possession. That is hardly bad offense.

The only time I remember Duke passing it on the perimeter was when they went to stall ball. We can gripe about that, but that is a different story. Everyone seems to agree that we had a pretty solid first half, at least when we settled in. Yet, we only had 26 points. That means Duke scored 40 points? At the same time they couldn't figure out Syracuse's defense?

Just doing the math, Duke scored 1.31 points per possession in the second half. I really didn't see Duke abandon the high post nearly as much as people make it out to be. And of course Syracuse is going to have a response. Boeheim has been coaching it forever so he has seen all the tricks to beat it, and likewise can adjust to it. But once the offense settled in, they seemed fine against it until they slowed the pace down which is exactly what Boeheim said.

91_92_01_10_15
02-23-2014, 12:33 AM
What is the ACC rule on coaches commenting about officiating to the media?

I know ACC coaches typically avoid it, and I was under the impression that it was because it would result in an automatic suspension, but I must admit ignorance to the actual rule, or where to find it.

sporthenry
02-23-2014, 12:47 AM
I agree. My recollection is we played stall ball for two (maybe three, but I don't think so) possessions and after that we were just being ultra-careful against the zone.

Went back to re-watch it. Around 5 minutes to go, you can see K barking out orders to stay on the perimeter. And the following 4-5 possessions Cook and Sheed were passing it back and forth 6-10 feet away from the 3 point line. They essentially took 15-20 seconds off the clock before initiating any type of O.

That along with K acknowledging it on the radio and Boeheim saying it in his presser. Pretty hard to argue that they weren't trying to milk the clock.

weezie
02-23-2014, 12:49 AM
That along with K acknowledging it on the radio and Boeheim saying it in his presser. Pretty hard to argue that they weren't trying to milk the clock.

Oh, of course they were. Nothing went down until 20 secs left on those possessions. Gunslingers!

weezie
02-23-2014, 12:54 AM
WHY DO WE SEEM SO UNPREPARED AND INEPT AT FACING GOOD ZONES??!!


That wasn't a good zone, that is a GREAT ZONE! It's darned near impenetrable. It's wicked hard to pass through or over it. And syr is quick, quick, quick on their shift and surge. We were actually terrific at being patient with it.