WBB: Duke @ ND

[AIM4excellence]

Anybody think we can win this game? We beat Maryland and NC State and we've played better since the 'players only' meeting after the UNC game fiasco. Can this team keep playing at this level? Liz is finally playing at the All American level she's capable of, Tricia is the best shooter in the country and Lexi is a top 5 PG. There is still plenty of talent - certainly equal to Notre Dame's. Do the players believe they can do it?

[aswewere]

Anybody think we can win this game? We beat Maryland and NC State and we've played better since the 'players only' meeting after the UNC game fiasco. Can this team keep playing at this level? Liz is finally playing at the All American level she's capable of, Tricia is the best shooter in the country and Lexi is a top 5 PG. There is still plenty of talent - certainly equal to Notre Dame's. Do the players believe they can do it?


Williams will have to find a gear that has been missing against the big girls.

[Duvall]

Williams will have to find a gear that has been missing against the big girls.

Less concerned about gears than finding a way to keep shooters from locating the gaps in Duke's zone.

[aswewere]

Less concerned about gears than finding a way to keep shooters from locating the gaps in Duke's zone.

Our offense is built around EW she had 2 pts. the last game.

[burnspbesq]

EWill and Co. have to at least get a standoff with Achonwa in the low post.

We can't allow ND to go on any runs. Every possession is critical.

Haley has to show up. We need quality minutes from Richa and Ka'lia.

One thing Duke hasn't done since the days of Mistie Bass and Ali B. is set punishing screens. We need to hit some people. We need to make McBride and Braker put their heads on swivels.

[burnspbesq]

A solid defensive performance would also be nice. Duke is 22-0 when they hold the opponent under 80 points (vs. 1-3 when the opponent gets 80 or more).

[jv001]

Keeping the turnovers down will go along way in keeping it close. GoDuke!

[Dukehky]

If we make the layups we missed in game 1, that game is at least somewhat competitive. I see this game being at very least sinngle digits. I think the girls believe they can beat ND unlike say UConn, We'll see though

[aswewere]

If we make the layups we missed in game 1, that game is at least somewhat competitive. I see this game being at very least sinngle digits. I think the girls believe they can beat ND unlike say UConn, We'll see though


When the talent is about equal coaching will carry you about 80% of the time.

[Kedsy]

When the talent is about equal coaching will carry you about 80% of the time.

You have stats to back this up? Or anything, really? Do you even have any backup for your implicit assertion that, without Chelsea, the "talent is about equal"?

Then please don't start this again.

[aswewere]

You have stats to back this up? Or anything, really? Do you even have any backup for your implicit assertion that, without Chelsea, the "talent is about equal"?

Then please don't start this again.

I was just making a general statement about good coaching which never needs any back up or props. Others have
expressed there opinion on what may decide this game and I have no apologies for valuing good coaching, its not
against the rules.

[MCFinARL]

I was just making a general statement about good coaching which never needs any back up or props. Others have
expressed there opinion on what may decide this game and I have no apologies for valuing good coaching, its not
against the rules.

Okay, but unless you believe the "talent is about equal" it's not really relevant--so the other half of Kedsy's question remains open.

[aswewere]

I am done feeding this troll.

This troll is a Iron Duke and a fifth year supporter of all sports.

[Kedsy]

This troll is a Iron Duke and a fifth year supporter of all sports.

Then stop acting like a troll.

[burnspbesq]

I was just making a general statement about good coaching which never needs any back up or props.

That may have been your intention (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt), but it absolutely doesn't come across that way--and had you read it carefully before posting, I think it would have been obvious to you that it wouldn't come across that way.

[-jk]

Keep it civil, folks. "Attack the post, not the poster." That means no name calling...

-jk

[aswewere]

DWHOOPS preview http://www.dwhoops.com/Duke/1402211-duke-at-notre-dame-preview.php

[throatybeard]

I am done feeding this troll.

Glass half full view: we got nine whole posts into a WBB thread before there was yet more whining about our coach who has a .839 win percentage at Duke.

Nine!

[Duvall]

Duke doesn't look ready to play today.

ETA: Correction, was not ready to play today.

[Duvall]

Settling in a bit now, but spotting ND an 18-point lead was...less than ideal.

[Duvall]

Duke rallies late to go into the locker room down only 14.

[killerleft]

Horrible start, pretty good since then. Outmanned but fighting hard, the lack of ballhandlers is killing us. It's hard to guard them with all the turnovers, but our defense when we get it set up is fair. ND has lots of scorers, hard to cover them all. Rebounding isn't good.

Rebounds. Gotta be hungrier. We have the energy level up, but Tricia will have to fight off exhaustion before this one's over. Elizabeth showing some fight, but she's been out there a long time, also.

[killerleft]

Great heart shown by the women! Down by nine at first time out!

[sagegrouse]

Now down to 44-53, but jeesiree, why did we start off down 18 points at 2-20?

[NYBri]

Within 7, but Jones goes down.

[killerleft]

Great playing, but please don't let Alexis be hurt. Hopefully she just banged it on the floor. Edit: her knee.

[sduke1986]

Within 7, but Jones goes down.

That's such a killer. She had tears in her eyes and everything. Liston makes some of the more boneheaded decisions I've ever seen anyone make with a basketball. Defense has been better, but our perimeter D and ability to get into the passing lanes is terrible.

[Duvall]

Knee sprain, out today, MRI tomorrow.

[killerleft]

Duke playing very well, but there's a lid on the bucket. Down 9, could have been close by now. Alexis has a sprained knee (at least), MRI tomorrow.

[killerleft]

Peters and Liston this game have had the collective basketball I.Q. of cave men. So what's our game plan here, continue to let their best player score at will?

You could pretend to be paying attention, where did that come from? We've got one guard left to play the game. Tough to get pressure on ND.

[sduke1986]

You could pretend to be paying attention, where did that come from? We've got one guard left to play the game. Tough to get pressure on ND.

I've watched every minute of the game, so yes, I'm paying attention. I have no problem losing, especially since Jones went down, but I expect to see smarter play out there and to quit letting McBride shoot wide open shots the entire game. Double her and make the rest of them beat us, it's worth a shot.

Would you not agree agree that Liston has made a number of boneheaded plays? I'm not an apologist. I expect to be competetitive in these games. I'm pretty tired of getting blown out by other top ranked teams. Just because someone doesn't agree with your view of the game, doesn't mean they aren't watching. I'm just not an apologist who is ready to accept getting blown out by these teams every year.

These girls have given everything they've had on the court and it's not fair that they have a coach who won't do the same. She never takes blame for herself.

[sduke1986]

My thoughts are with Jones. Hope everything is alright with her and that it's nothing too serious. Jeeeeeze we have had some crappy luck with injuries. We are literally screwed to no end without her. Hated seeing her crying on the bench, tough to see something like that.

With her in the game we def stood a chance of making a comeback, without her it just wasn't going to happen.

[killerleft]

I've watched every minute of the game, so yes, I'm paying attention. I have no problem losing, especially since Jones went down, but I expect to see smarter play out there and to quit letting McBride shoot wide open shots the entire game. Double her and make the rest of them beat us, it's worth a shot.

Would you not agree agree that Liston has made a number of boneheaded plays? I'm not an apologist. I expect to be competetitive in these games. I'm pretty tired of getting blown out by other top ranked teams. Just because someone doesn't agree with your view of the game, doesn't mean they aren't watching. I'm just not an apologist who is ready to accept getting blown out by these teams every year.

These girls have given everything they've had on the court and it's not fair that they have a coach who won't do the same. She never takes blame for herself.

No, you are certainly no apologist. My bad.

[Kedsy]

Really proud of the way we fought back from that 20-2 deficit to getting it within 7. If Alexis hadn't gone down it might have been a comeback for the ages.

Now I just hope she's OK, but even if it's "just" a sprain it's hard to envision her at full strength for next week's UNC game. Or even the ACC tournament. Such awful luck this team's had over the past several years. Though I suppose someone will come on now and somehow blame it on the coach.

[chrishoke]

Losing three point guards sux.

[sduke1986]

Really proud of the way we fought back from that 20-2 deficit to getting it within 7. If Alexis hadn't gone down it might have been a comeback for the ages.

Now I just hope she's OK, but even if it's "just" a sprain it's hard to envision her at full strength for next week's UNC game. Or even the ACC tournament. Such awful luck this team's had over the past several years. Though I suppose someone will come on now and somehow blame it on the coach.

No doubt we've had some crappy luck for sure. I really do think we had a good shot to make a run with her still in the game. That half court shot would have been that much more amazing had we won by a point lol.

[sduke1986]

Losing three point guards sux.

This ^

[AIM4excellence]

I've watched every minute of the game, so yes, I'm paying attention. I have no problem losing, especially since Jones went down, but I expect to see smarter play out there and to quit letting McBride shoot wide open shots the entire game. Double her and make the rest of them beat us, it's worth a shot.

Would you not agree agree that Liston has made a number of boneheaded plays? I'm not an apologist. I expect to be competetitive in these games. I'm pretty tired of getting blown out by other top ranked teams. Just because someone doesn't agree with your view of the game, doesn't mean they aren't watching. I'm just not an apologist who is ready to accept getting blown out by these teams every year.

These girls have given everything they've had on the court and it's not fair that they have a coach who won't do the same. She never takes blame for herself.

Great post! There are some very avid and mean-spirited defenders of this coach on here so some attacks are to be expected. If you offer any critique of the coach, you are a "troll." I think that's the definition of the word. Nice to have another poster willing to speak the truth.

[burnspbesq]

We won the last 34 minutes by seven. Something to build on.

If AJ can't go, it's either burn Greenwell's redshirt or play Frush meaningful minutes. That is pretty much the paradigm case of Hobson's choice.

[burnspbesq]

Great post! There are some very avid and mean-spirited defenders of this coach on here so some attacks are to be expected. If you offer any critique of the coach, you are a "troll." I think that's the definition of the word. Nice to have another poster willing to speak the truth.

What a crock.

[sduke1986]

We won the last 34 minutes by seven. Something to build on.

If AJ can't go, it's either burn Greenwell's redshirt or play Frush meaningful minutes. That is pretty much the paradigm case of Hobson's choice.

Very good sign indeed. We looked pretty unstoppable for a good stretch there.

[burnspbesq]

Very good sign indeed. We looked pretty unstoppable for a good stretch there.

I didn't get to see the game, but from what I'm hearing it was a lot like our game at Tennessee in the 2006-07 season. We opened the game with a 19-0 run and barely held on to win by (IIRC) four. Lady Vols learned a lot that day, and were very good for the rest of the season. Let's see if we can do the same.

It may simply be that ND has too many weapons for anybody to shut them all down. They've only been under 80 seven times all year.

[sduke1986]

I apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way, I just really want to see these girls do well. We've been great for far too long to not beat some of these teams. Obviously today when Jones when down that pretty much killed our chances and all of our injuries haven't helped the situation, but it's still pretty frustrating to start how we did.

I don't post here a lot so I really wanted to make sure I didn't upset anyone. Hopefully we can finish the season strong. Go Duke!

[burnspbesq]

I apologize if I rubbed anyone the wrong way, I just really want to see these girls do well. We've been great for far too long to not beat some of these teams. Obviously today when Jones when down that pretty much killed our chances and all of our injuries haven't helped the situation, but it's still pretty frustrating to start how we did.

I don't post here a lot so I really wanted to make sure I didn't upset anyone. Hopefully we can finish the season strong. Go Duke!

No worries. Nearly all of us want the same thing, which is to see these wonderful young women max out their potential, whatever that turns out to be.

[AIM4excellence]

I didn't get to see the game, but from what I'm hearing it was a lot like our game at Tennessee in the 2006-07 season. We opened the game with a 19-0 run and barely held on to win by (IIRC) four. Lady Vols learned a lot that day, and were very good for the rest of the season. Let's see if we can do the same.

It may simply be that ND has too many weapons for anybody to shut them all down. They've only been under 80 seven times all year.

Comparing this team to one who won a National Championship is pretty laughable. They had a Hall of Fame coach. You can't get into the Hall of Fame if you can't get a team into the Final Four. They don't let people in just because they have good excuses for not getting there.

[uh_no]

We won the last 34 minutes by seven. Something to build on.

If AJ can't go, it's either burn Greenwell's redshirt or play Frush meaningful minutes. That is pretty much the paradigm case of Hobson's choice.

Certainly, but the issue is not those 34 minutes, it's the 8 minute stretch where they scored nothing (well...2...but)....that stretch comes every game against a big team, and the other teams know it's coming..so even if they are in a close game early, there's no reason to panic.

[miramar]

We won the last 34 minutes by seven. Something to build on.

Duke was down by 18 after seven minutes and by 17 when ND made wholesale substitutions in the final minute, so 80% of the game was about even once Duke righted the ship. I hope that this is something that the women can take away from what was otherwise a very difficult game, particularly with the injury to Alexis Jones.

[Ky-Dukie]

First of all I really hope Alexis will be ok. We have to have her the rest of the year. I just get so frustrated sometimes watching these games. I can't understand why we continue to stay in a zone when a team is hitting wide open shots. The zone was more active against Maryland, but they were missing several shots too. Mix it up a little or something. I want the women's team to win a national title so bad. I'm not trying to rip on the coach here, although it may come off that way. Maybe with a healthy Chelsea, the last two seasons would be different. That's anyone's guess. We haven't beat a top 2 team since 2007. We're playing for a 2 seed at best now. Hopefully we don't end up in a UConn or Notre Dame bracket. Make Louisville a 1 and put us a 2 there. Making the final four would be great, but not to turn around and have a blowout loss to end the season. Can anyone tell me why Holland and Moore transferred ? Sorry I was kinda all over the place here, but some things I wanted to say.

[Kedsy]

They had a Hall of Fame coach. You can't get into the Hall of Fame if you can't get a team into the Final Four. They don't let people in just because they have good excuses for not getting there.

Was anybody talking about the Hall of Fame? Anyone?

That's what I thought.

[AIM4excellence]

Can anyone tell me why Holland and Moore transferred ? Sorry I was kinda all over the place here, but some things I wanted to say.

Sierra Moore didn't have a position in McCallie's offense. She's not really big enough to play in the post and doesn't have enough ball handling skills to play on the wing. I wish her well at Penn State. Holland is more of a mystery as she'd likely be getting big minutes at this point. Since neither she nor Duke shared why she said she left, we're left guessing about it. Clearly something did not agree with her at Duke and she decided to cut her losses sooner rather than later. As the 4th back up PG, she'd be starting the next game, assuming Lexi will miss at least the next game with her [hopefully] sprained knee.

[AIM4excellence]

Was anybody talking about the Hall of Fame? Anyone?

That's what I thought.

You were comparing this team to the 96/97 Tennessee Lady Vols, who won the National Championship. If you're going to make that comparison, you have to be ready for really comparing them - and there's a HUGE difference at the top of each team. Please note that I'm not the one who compared the two teams. I simply pointed out the glaring difference between them.

[sagegrouse]

.................................................. .
These girls have given everything they've had on the court and it's not fair that they have a coach who won't do the same. She never takes blame for herself.


Great post! There are some very avid and mean-spirited defenders of this coach on here so some attacks are to be expected. If you offer any critique of the coach, you are a "troll." I think that's the definition of the word. Nice to have another poster willing to speak the truth.


Comparing this team to one who won a National Championship is pretty laughable. They had a Hall of Fame coach. You can't get into the Hall of Fame if you can't get a team into the Final Four. They don't let people in just because they have good excuses for not getting there.


What a crock.

Hey guys! This is getting tedious, which tends to bring out the ire of the other posters. Do you two, Sduke1986 and AIM4excellence, really think that Coach P isn't trying or doesn't blame herself for the shortcomings of the team? Together you two have 39 posts on DBR, which doesnt mean you are wrong but suggests that you haven't been looking at these same tired arguments for the past five years.

Why don't we all pull on the rope in the same direction?

[killerleft]

Great post! There are some very avid and mean-spirited defenders of this coach on here so some attacks are to be expected. If you offer any critique of the coach, you are a "troll." I think that's the definition of the word. Nice longave another poster willing to speak the truth.

No coach is perfect, but playing one of the country's best spot-up shooters at point guard out of necessity because all the point guards are injured will often be considered a valid and serious reason for losing, and will apparently cause apologists to type very long sentences. Great comeback today.

[sduke1986]

Hey guys! This is getting tedious, which tends to bring out the ire of the other posters. Do you two, Sduke1986 and AIM4excellence, really think that Coach P isn't trying or doesn't blame herself for the shortcomings of the team? Together you two have 39 posts on DBR, which doesnt mean you are wrong but suggests that you haven't been looking at these same tired arguments for the past five years.

Why don't we all pull on the rope in the same direction?

Post count really has nothing to do with someone's knowledge of the situation. I've been reading these boards for years, but like many others I just don't post here very often. I am an avid poster on TDD and have thousands of posts there.

My point as previously stated wasn't to stir the pot, but just to express my current frustrations. You may call it a tired argument, but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. maybe you are content with recruting elite players every year and still not being competitive with the top tier teams, but I am not. Is one Final Four too much to ask?

Do you actually watch Coach P's press conferences?? She regularly throws the players under the bus and takes none of the blame for herself. I realize my opinon might not be valued here because of my low post count, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid one.

[sduke1986]

No coach is perfect, but playing one of the country's best spot-up shooters at point guard out of necessity because all the point guards are injured will often be considered a valid and serious reason for losing, and will apparently cause apologists to type very long sentences. Great comeback today.

I guess Duke and Coach P can just do no wrong. Being critical of a team doesn't mean you aren't supportive, in fact it's human nature. I've supported this team for years and that's why I care so much. I will continue to support them through whatever they do, because I love Duke and I love this team. However, I will also continue to be vocal in my displeasure of not being able to contend with the top teams. I mean we aren't even remotely competitive with some of these teams.

The injuries are a valid reason for losing, nobody is questioning that at all. What we are questioning, is why we have a coach who throws all of the blame on her players and places none on herself. Look at how much talent we have on the bench and how much talent has trasferred. Is this the team's fault?

[AIM4excellence]

Hey guys! This is getting tedious, which tends to bring out the ire of the other posters. Do you two, Sduke1986 and AIM4excellence, really think that Coach P isn't trying or doesn't blame herself for the shortcomings of the team? Together you two have 39 posts on DBR, which doesnt mean you are wrong but suggests that you haven't been looking at these same tired arguments for the past five years.

Why don't we all pull on the rope in the same direction?

So I have the perspective of a new poster here and what I see is a bunch of people with solid ties to this coach who blast to smithereens anyone who dares post any criticism of her. Coach McCallie does not publicly accept any responsibility for how her coaching mistakes impact the results. I read and hear regularly about coaches who will even take the blame for a shooter having an off night. In answer to your question, I don't think McCallie utilizes all resources (including her own assistants) to impact the outcome of games. If you've read her book, she says that anyone (including assistant coaches) who make a suggestion, have to do so while not in any way questioning her coaching decisions or philosophy. To me, that says that she puts in her beliefs ahead of the game outcome, even when her way isn't winning. Further, it suggests that she quashes any suggestions that aren't made with sufficient deference to her. There are plenty of head coaches who give credit to their assistants, some even saying "thank heavens they convinced me to make the change that won the game." If McCallie is doing that, she's doing it completely privately and the exodus of assistant coaches suggests she isn't doing that privately either.

Please understand that you asked a question and I'm answering. If you didn't mean for me to answer it, forgive me for misunderstanding.

I've been "pulling the rope" for Duke Women's Basketball for many years. I really don't understand how being critical of a coach who's never taken our team to even one Final Four is "wrong" or "bad." I'm tired of excuses. I want results and I want a coach who publicly backs her players. Yes, I guess I was spoiled by having a coach who gave us both, so I know it could be better.

[sagegrouse]

I guess Duke and Coach P can just do no wrong. Being critical of a team doesn't mean you aren't supportive, in fact it's human nature. I've supported this team for years and that's why I care so much. I will continue to support them through whatever they do, because I love Duke and I love this team. However, I will also continue to be vocal in my displeasure of not being able to contend with the top teams. I mean we aren't even remotely competitive with some of these teams.

The injuries are a valid reason for losing, nobody is questioning that at all. What we are questioning, is why we have a coach who throws all of the blame on her players and places none on herself. Look at how much talent we have on the bench and how much talent has trasferred. Is this the team's fault?


So I have the perspective of a new poster here and what I see is a bunch of people with solid ties to this coach who blast to smithereens anyone who dares post any criticism of her. Coach McCallie does not publicly accept any responsibility for how her coaching mistakes impact the results. I read and hear regularly about coaches who will even take the blame for a shooter having an off night. In answer to your question, I don't think McCallie utilizes all resources (including her own assistants) to impact the outcome of games. If you've read her book, she says that anyone (including assistant coaches) who make a suggestion, have to do so while not in any way questioning her coaching decisions or philosophy. To me, that says that she puts in her beliefs ahead of the game outcome, even when her way isn't winning. Further, it suggests that she quashes any suggestions that aren't made with sufficient deference to her. There are plenty of head coaches who give credit to their assistants, some even saying "thank heavens they convinced me to make the change that won the game." If McCallie is doing that, she's doing it completely privately and the exodus of assistant coaches suggests she isn't doing that privately either.

Please understand that you asked a question and I'm answering. If you didn't mean for me to answer it, forgive me for misunderstanding.

I've been "pulling the rope" for Duke Women's Basketball for many years. I really don't understand how being critical of a coach who's never taken our team to even one Final Four is "wrong" or "bad." I'm tired of excuses. I want results and I want a coach who publicly backs her players. Yes, I guess I was spoiled by having a coach who gave us both, so I know it could be better.

Hey, guys! We don't necessarily disagree. I think your arguments were weak and snide.


E.g.: "These girls have given everything they've had on the court and it's not fair that they have a coach who won't do the same. She never takes blame for herself."

What you are saying is that coach P. isn't trying hard enough to win and that her press conferences without personal apologies proves that she doesn't recognize coaching deficiencies and, therefore, is unwilling to make any changes. Both statements are preposterous -- to me, at least. For example, Ol' Roy has one disastrous public statement after another, to the chagrin of UNC fans, but he is rightfully a HOF coach.

And, AIM4Excellence, when you say that the critics of your posts are the entrenched supporters of Coach P, that is a real hoot. I am not sure McCallie has any diehard supporters among long-time Duke fans, although she has won three ACC titles and 80+ percent of her games. But many others, including me, have been very critical of Coach P, especially her offensive schemes and her recruiting. But those arguments were made with some degree of analysis, unlike yours.

Kindly, Sage
'But the recruiting has turned out to be pretty darned good, even with the loss of key assistants. In fact, a Duke degree may mean a heckuva lot more in the low-money world of woman's basketball than it does with men's basketball'

[aswewere]

So I have the perspective of a new poster here and what I see is a bunch of people with solid ties to this coach who blast to smithereens anyone who dares post any criticism of her. Coach McCallie does not publicly accept any responsibility for how her coaching mistakes impact the results. I read and hear regularly about coaches who will even take the blame for a shooter having an off night. In answer to your question, I don't think McCallie utilizes all resources (including her own assistants) to impact the outcome of games. If you've read her book, she says that anyone (including assistant coaches) who make a suggestion, have to do so while not in any way questioning her coaching decisions or philosophy. To me, that says that she puts in her beliefs ahead of the game outcome, even when her way isn't winning. Further, it suggests that she quashes any suggestions that aren't made with sufficient deference to her. There are plenty of head coaches who give credit to their assistants, some even saying "thank heavens they convinced me to make the change that won the game." If McCallie is doing that, she's doing it completely privately and the exodus of assistant coaches suggests she isn't doing that privately either.

Please understand that you asked a question and I'm answering. If you didn't mean for me to answer it, forgive me for misunderstanding.

I've been "pulling the rope" for Duke Women's Basketball for many years. I really don't understand how being critical of a coach who's never taken our team to even one Final Four is "wrong" or "bad." I'm tired of excuses. I want results and I want a coach who publicly backs her players. Yes, I guess I was spoiled by having a coach who gave us both, so I know it could be better.

Correction she does listen to one assistant coach Al Brown. They are on the same page that's why he been around
a long time and not some where else with no explanation.

[sduke1986]

Hey, guys! We don't necessarily disagree. I think your arguments were weak and snide.



What you are saying is that coach P. isn't trying hard enough to win and that her press conferences without personal apologies proves that she doesn't recognize coaching deficiencies and, therefore, is unwilling to make any changes. Both statements are preposterous -- to me, at least. For example, Ol' Roy has one disastrous public statement after another, to the chagrin of UNC fans, but he is rightfully a HOF coach.

Others, including me, have been very critical of Coach P in the past, especially her offensive schemes and her recruiting, but the recruiting has turned out to be pretty darned good, even with the loss of key assistants. But those arguments were made with some degree of analysis, unlike yours.

Kindly, Sage
'BTW a Duke degree may mean a heckuva lot more in the low-money world of woman's basketball than it does with men's basketball'

What further analysis do you need? Look at the results that are right in front of you. It seems like you are trying to complicate this, when what matters most is simply winning. Sure, we are winning, but are you happy with being a 30 win team every year who can't compete with the big boys and has jack to show for it?

Saying that our arguments are preposterous is a cop out, when you've given no "analysis" as to why we shouldn't be vocal in our displeasure. We LOVE and SUPPORT Duke, that is the reason that we are upset with the results that we've had under Coach P, it's really as simple as that.

[sagegrouse]

What further analysis do you need? Look at the results that are right in front of you. It seems like you are trying to complicate this, when what matters most is simply winning. Sure, we are winning, but are you happy with being a 30 win team every year who can't compete with the big boys and has jack to show for it?

Saying that our arguments are preposterous is a cop out, when you've given no "analysis" as to why we shouldn't be vocal in our displeasure. We LOVE and SUPPORT Duke, that is the reason that we are upset with the results that we've had under Coach P, it's really as simple as that.

I don;t need further analysis. You are viewing criticism of your arguments as a disagreement with your disappointment in Duke women's basketball. I don't like "snide." And I don't like getting blown out by Top 5 teams.

[burnspbesq]

You were comparing this team to the 96/97 Tennessee Lady Vols, who won the National Championship. If you're going to make that comparison, you have to be ready for really comparing them - and there's a HUGE difference at the top of each team. Please note that I'm not the one who compared the two teams. I simply pointed out the glaring difference between them.

Wow. It's sad that some people's obsessions adversely affect their reading comprehension.

The comparison (if there is even a comparison) is not to the 96-97 Lady Vols. it's to one game in the 06-07 season. The proposition that it's possible to learn from a bad loss seems to have close to universal acceptance (albeit perhaps not by you). There is an ample historical record that demonstrates beyond reasonable doubt that a Hall of Fame coach is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition to learn from a bad loss.

I'm sure you know all these things. I'm not sure what you hope to gain by raising an army of straw-men.

We get that you despise Coach P with every fiber of your being. What else you got?

[AIM4excellence]

I think your arguments were weak and snide.


Ouch. I will try to bring at least the same degree of analysis to my posts as you have done. Since I'm new here, I'm sure I missed your past critiques. All I've seen in my short time here is people piling on whenever anyone criticizes this coach. And they haven't made any attempt to be nice about it, even when the argument is accompanied by plenty of facts that all but hit you over the head with a sledgehammer. No Final Fours in 7 years, despite top recruiting classes. Boom.

By the way, there are very few people who could beat me in a game of DWB trivia. I went into the stands to shake Sue Harnett's hand when Alana broke her single game scoring record, meaning that I knew what the record was and who had it before the game. I speak from a place of history with this program and I don't like what I'm seeing. I do get a feeling of camaraderie from other fans here who feel similarly.

[DU82]

I posted my comments about the program (and Coach P) in the UNCheat game thread so I won't repeat them here...

Other than to repeat a strength/positive is that Coach P's teams almost always beat the teams they're supposed to, and they don't lose at home to, say, Virginia Tech, the last place team in the conference.

(If we have enough players, and can beat an improving Wake team on Thursday, we will clinch second in the conference (we have the tie-breaker over both State and Maryland, even if we lose next Sunday.)

[AIM4excellence]

The comparison (if there is even a comparison) is not to the 96-97 Lady Vols. it's to one game in the 06-07 season.

Oops. I did read that wrong. So sorry.

[Kedsy]

What further analysis do you need? Look at the results that are right in front of you. It seems like you are trying to complicate this, when what matters most is simply winning. Sure, we are winning, but are you happy with being a 30 win team every year who can't compete with the big boys and has jack to show for it?

Saying that our arguments are preposterous is a cop out, when you've given no "analysis" as to why we shouldn't be vocal in our displeasure. We LOVE and SUPPORT Duke, that is the reason that we are upset with the results that we've had under Coach P, it's really as simple as that.

Well, first of all, when the new WBB posters started their Coach P crusade there were plenty of reasoned analysis about why others thought they were wrong. Their response (not necessarily yours because you're even newer than the other two) was to ignore the reasoning and simply repeat that Coach P stinks.

Second, the group of new critical posters hasn't really made any reasoned arguments at all. They just make provocative declarations like "Coach P doesn't try" and "if only we had a good coach."

Finally, if all that matters is winning, then Coach P has done a pretty impressive job. Looking at "the results that are right in front of [me]," In the past four years she has four regular season ACC titles, three ACC tournament titles, four top-6 finishes in the AP poll and four Elite Eights. That's an amazing amount of success.

You said in an earlier post, "Is one Final Four too much to ask?" So four Elite Eight in a rows should be completely discounted but one more win in any of those years would have satisfied you? And you won't cut any slack for the incredible spate of major injuries that have hit Coach P's teams over the past three years? Why should people take that sort of suggestion seriously?

[Kedsy]

No Final Fours in 7 years, despite top recruiting classes. Boom.

Well, first of all, Coach P has only coached 6 full seasons. Not even you can fault her for not yet getting to this year's Final Four, right?

Second, she didn't bring in top recruiting classes until the 2010 high school class, so your argument doesn't make much sense for the first three years of Coach P's tenure here.

But here's where your argument completely goes off the rails: recruiting matters to you but injuries and transfers apparently don't. Here's a year-by-year breakdown:

Duke's 2010 class was the #1 class in the country, with Chelsea, Richa, Haley, Tricia, and Chloe. In 2010-11, they were all freshmen and the sophomore and junior classes contained zero top 100 recruits. We made the Elite Eight anyway.

We played the 2011-12 NCAA tournament without Richa (#6 ESPN recruit) and Chloe. We played the 2012-13 NCAA tournament without Chelsea (#4 ESPN recruit). We're going to play the 2013-14 NCAA tournament without Chelsea or Chloe. If the recruiting class didn't include Chelsea (or Richa and/or Chloe, depending on the season), how high would the class have been rated? Certainly not #1, and probably a lot lower.

Duke's 2011 class was the #4 class in the country. But we played the 2011-12 NCAA tournament with Elizabeth (#2) playing with a broken bone in her foot and with Amber (#20) not playing at all. We also played the 2012-13 NCAA tournament without Amber, and in 2013-14 Amber's availability will be very limited. Would the class have been a "top recruiting class" without Amber? Not nearly as high. How about in 2012 with just Ka'lia and essentially half an Elizabeth? Probably not even top 20.

Duke's 2012 class was the #7 class in the country. But Sierra Moore barely played and Katie Heckman missed the entire season with an injury. Both are now gone (Sierra due to transfer and Katie due to a career-ending injury). Think a class of just Alexis would have even been top 10?

Duke's 2013 class was the #2 class, but neither #6 recruit Rebecca Greenwell nor #32 Kianna Holland have played a minute for Duke this season and won't play in this season's NCAAT. A class of just Oderah and Kendall might have made the bottom of the top ten, but might not have.

So if you take the injured players away from Duke's recruiting classes, the classes wouldn't have been so top rated. And I'm hoping not even you would blame Coach P for the injuries.

Yet we've made four consecutive Elite Eights.

"Boom."

[Karl Beem]

Right, the team has been devastated by injuries the last 3 years.

[aswewere]

Well, first of all, Coach P has only coached 6 full seasons. Not even you can fault her for not yet getting to this year's Final Four, right?

Second, she didn't bring in top recruiting classes until the 2010 high school class, so your argument doesn't make much sense for the first three years of Coach P's tenure here.

But here's where your argument completely goes off the rails: recruiting matters to you but injuries and transfers apparently don't. Here's a year-by-year breakdown:

Duke's 2010 class was the #1 class in the country, with Chelsea, Richa, Haley, Tricia, and Chloe. In 2010-11, they were all freshmen and the sophomore and junior classes contained zero top 100 recruits. We made the Elite Eight anyway.

We played the 2011-12 NCAA tournament without Richa (#6 ESPN recruit) and Chloe. We played the 2012-13 NCAA tournament without Chelsea (#4 ESPN recruit). We're going to play the 2013-14 NCAA tournament without Chelsea or Chloe. If the recruiting class didn't include Chelsea (or Richa and/or Chloe, depending on the season), how high would the class have been rated? Certainly not #1, and probably a lot lower.

Duke's 2011 class was the #4 class in the country. But we played the 2011-12 NCAA tournament with Elizabeth (#2) playing with a broken bone in her foot and with Amber (#20) not playing at all. We also played the 2012-13 NCAA tournament without Amber, and in 2013-14 Amber's availability will be very limited. Would the class have been a "top recruiting class" without Amber? Not nearly as high. How about in 2012 with just Ka'lia and essentially half an Elizabeth? Probably not even top 20.

Duke's 2012 class was the #7 class in the country. But Sierra Moore barely played and Katie Heckman missed the entire season with an injury. Both are now gone (Sierra due to transfer and Katie due to a career-ending injury). Think a class of just Alexis would have even been top 10?

Duke's 2013 class was the #2 class, but neither #6 recruit Rebecca Greenwell nor #32 Kianna Holland have played a minute for Duke this season and won't play in this season's NCAAT. A class of just Oderah and Kendall might have made the bottom of the top ten, but might not have.

So if you take the injured players away from Duke's recruiting classes, the classes wouldn't have been so top rated. And I'm hoping not even you would blame Coach P for the injuries.

Yet we've made four consecutive Elite Eights.

"Boom."

What about her twitter embarrassment, coaches leaving for lateral transfers and no announcements of appreciation,
no structured offense --UConns team could be shut down with our street ball and with the new rules on touch fouls
we are still in a weight lifting class rather than a finesse sprint program. Not once has she ever said the coaching may
be at fault,change, or any things other good & bad coaches say.

[Kedsy]

What about her twitter embarrassment, coaches leaving for lateral transfers and no announcements of appreciation,
no structured offense --UConns team could be shut down with our street ball and with the new rules on touch fouls
we are still in a weight lifting class rather than a finesse sprint program. Not once has she ever said the coaching may
be at fault,change, or any things other good & bad coaches say.

Well, the first guy said, "what matters most is simply winning." The second guy said, "No Final Fours in 7 years, despite top recruiting classes. Boom." So I responded to them.

Now I can respond to you. First, I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "UConns team could be shut down with our street ball and with the new rules on touch fouls." Second, I disagree that we've had "no structured offense." Third, I honestly don't care so much about the rest of that off-court stuff. I get that some people do care, and I respect that. So the next time she does some off-court something you think is inappropriate, go ahead and point it out and I probably won't argue with you.

I see absolutely no reason to rehash the same old off-court complaints after every loss, however, which is pretty much the only time people bring it up.

[aswewere]

Well, the first guy said, "what matters most is simply winning." The second guy said, "No Final Fours in 7 years, despite top recruiting classes. Boom." So I responded to them.

Now I can respond to you. First, I have absolutely no idea what you mean by "UConns team could be shut down with our street ball and with the new rules on touch fouls." Second, I disagree that we've had "no structured offense." Third, I honestly don't care so much about the rest of that off-court stuff. I get that some people do care, and I respect that. So the next time she does some off-court something you think is inappropriate, go ahead and point it out and I probably won't argue with you.

I see absolutely no reason to rehash the same old off-court complaints after every loss, however, which is pretty much the only time people bring it up.

Ok lets sweep the off court stuff under a rug does this represent the Duke we love and respect?

[AIM4excellence]

Well, first of all, Coach P has only coached 6 full seasons. Not even you can fault her for not yet getting to this year's Final Four, right?

Second, she didn't bring in top recruiting classes until the 2010 high school class, so your argument doesn't make much sense for the first three years of Coach P's tenure here.

But here's where your argument completely goes off the rails: recruiting matters to you but injuries and transfers apparently don't. ...


Sorry, I counted this year in the 7 years. **spoiler alert** We are not getting to a FF this year. We're looking like a low 2 seed or even a 3 seed. As a low 2 seed, we would be put in the bracket with either UConn or ND. I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone, but that's where we stand right now.

Recruiting only matters as it translates into major victories. We haven't had a major victory yet. Major victory = beating a team ranked higher or beating a team in the Elite Eight.

Transfers/quitting the team DO matter. And we had one player graduate in 3 years and rush off to a non-Div 1 school for grad school so she could play another year elsewhere. Of course there are always going to be some transfers, but never before was it a player leaving mid-season who was going to be an important part of the team in the future.

Injuries are part of the game. Some teams do pull together and go further than they thought possible after a star goes down. Heck, UConn's likely going to the FF with 7 scholarship players. I believe it was 2001 when they lost 2 AA's (Shea Ralph and Svetlana Abrosimova) and still went to the FF and lost to Notre Dame. Yes, the team has had a LOT of injuries. But, IMHO, we should have gotten to ONE Final Four with the talent on the floor.

I want to add that, as a fan of this team, I want nothing more than for this team to win out and reach the Final Four this year and for this post to get thrown in my face. I would gladly eat that crow! You have never seen such crow-eating enjoyment in your life as I will do.

[Kedsy]

We haven't had a major victory yet. Major victory = beating a team ranked higher or beating a team in the Elite Eight.

Well, thanks for that, but you don't mind if some of us don't accept your definition of "major victory," do you?

Seriously, when #2 Duke plays a true road game at #5 UK and wins, that's not a major victory? When #3 Duke beat #4 Xavier a couple years ago, that wasn't major? Or when #7 Duke beat #8 Maryland, like we did last week, that's not major? Or the four years in a row that we've won our Sweet 16 game to advance to the Elite Eight? That seems pretty major to me. For a team that has finished top 6 in the country in each of the past five seasons, has been in the top 10 every week since mid-December 2009, and has spent most of the past four seasons (including this one) in the top 5, there aren't many games a year that meet your criteria.

But even by your incredibly restrictive definition of "major victory," you're still wrong. By my count under Coach P we have had five such victories:

12/6/07: #17 Duke beat #4 Rutgers
3/8/08: #12 Duke beat #5 Maryland
12/16/08: #8 Duke beat #3 Stanford
12/3/09: #11 Duke beat #3 Ohio State
2/24/12: #7 Duke beat #5 Miami

Since Coach P's second year, in addition to the four victories listed above, we've lost six times to UConn, four times to Notre Dame, and four times to other teams either ranked higher than us or in the Elite Eight. So, what it sounds like you really mean is, in your mind, "major victory" is beating Connecticut or Notre Dame, because aside from those two teams we're 4-4 in games meeting your definition since the beginning of the 2008-09 season.

While I agree it would be nice to get over what appears to be a mental hurdle against UConn and Notre Dame, I simply can't see why failing to do so justifies your unreasoning vitriol, especially considering all the injuries we've had.


But, IMHO, we should have gotten to ONE Final Four with the talent on the floor.

Well, with all due respect, there doesn't seem to be a lot of H in your O. In the four years in question, we lost by 3 points once, lost to UConn once, and twice lost to #1 seeds while our own team was suffering major injuries. Obviously, we'd all have liked to win one of those games, but other than the Baylor game (which was decided by 3 points) we were big underdogs in all of them. Your expectations are unreasonable.

[Kedsy]

Ok lets sweep the off court stuff under a rug does this represent the Duke we love and respect?

I didn't say sweep it under the rug. I said I don't care about it. I'll add now that I think it's overblown by people who just don't like Coach P.

What I also said is there's no reason to rehash it every time we lose a game. Why are you even bringing it up in a post-game thread? The next time she does something that stains Duke's reputation, go ahead and talk about it and I doubt I'll argue with you at all. Just please don't repeat the same old stuff every time we happen to lose a game.

[aswewere]

Well, thanks for that, but you don't mind if some of us don't accept your definition of "major victory," do you?

Seriously, when #2 Duke plays a true road game at #5 UK and wins, that's not a major victory? When #3 Duke beat #4 Xavier a couple years ago, that wasn't major? Or when #7 Duke beat #8 Maryland, like we did last week, that's not major? Or the four years in a row that we've won our Sweet 16 game to advance to the Elite Eight? That seems pretty major to me. For a team that has finished top 6 in the country in each of the past five seasons, has been in the top 10 every week since mid-December 2009, and has spent most of the past four seasons (including this one) in the top 5, there aren't many games a year that meet your criteria.

But even by your incredibly restrictive definition of "major victory," you're still wrong. By my count under Coach P we have had five such victories:

12/6/07: #17 Duke beat #4 Rutgers
3/8/08: #12 Duke beat #5 Maryland
12/16/08: #8 Duke beat #3 Stanford
12/3/09: #11 Duke beat #3 Ohio State
2/24/12: #7 Duke beat #5 Miami

Since Coach P's second year, in addition to the four victories listed above, we've lost six times to UConn, four times to Notre Dame, and four times to other teams either ranked higher than us or in the Elite Eight. So, what it sounds like you really mean is, in your mind, "major victory" is beating Connecticut or Notre Dame, because aside from those two teams we're 4-4 in games meeting your definition since the beginning of the 2008-09 season.

While I agree it would be nice to get over what appears to be a mental hurdle against UConn and Notre Dame, I simply can't see why failing to do so justifies your unreasoning vitriol, especially considering all the injuries we've had.



Well, with all due respect, there doesn't seem to be a lot of H in your O. In the four years in question, we lost by 3 points once, lost to UConn once, and twice lost to #1 seeds while our own team was suffering major injuries. Obviously, we'd all have liked to win one of those games, but other than the Baylor game (which was decided by 3 points) we were big underdogs in all of them. Your expectations are unreasonable.

Her record, is 0-12 against teams ranked #1 or #2 in her tenure, and is 7-20 against top-five teams in her seven years.

[Kedsy]

Her record, is 0-12 against teams ranked #1 or #2 in her tenure, and is 7-20 against top-five teams in her seven years.

Well, I could be missing one, but by my count she's been 7-19 against top five teams. I've checked twice, but I apologize if I'm wrong about that.

But let's break that down to make it a little more meaningful.

Coach P's first year in Durham, she was 2-6 against top 5 teams, including 0-3 against top 2 teams, with a team she inherited that wasn't remotely talented enough to do any better. Two top five wins was actually pretty good for that team.

Since then, she has gone 0-6 against UConn; 0-4 against Notre Dame; and 5-3 against all other top 5 teams. Included in the 5 wins are two wins against #3 teams, conveniently left out by your arbitrary cutoff of "teams ranked #1 or #2."

Three of the four losses to Notre Dame have come without Chelsea on the court (and the fourth was a two point game). You may hold that against her. I don't.

Admittedly stats can be manipulated. You have chosen a sample that puts Coach P in the worst possible light, but I don't think it's fair to judge her on her first season or in games in which her best player was injured. What I see is a coach whose team hasn't been able to beat Connecticut (a team that was #1 in the final AP poll in five of Coach P's seven seasons and #3 in the other two), whose team has had terrible injury luck against Notre Dame, and whose team has done pretty well against everyone else.

Look, I get your disappointment that Duke hasn't beaten UConn and hasn't made a Final Four in Coach P's time here. What I don't get is the seeming vendetta you and other recent posters seem to have against her.

[sduke1986]

Sorry, I counted this year in the 7 years. **spoiler alert** We are not getting to a FF this year. We're looking like a low 2 seed or even a 3 seed. As a low 2 seed, we would be put in the bracket with either UConn or ND. I hope this doesn't come as a surprise to anyone, but that's where we stand right now.

Recruiting only matters as it translates into major victories. We haven't had a major victory yet. Major victory = beating a team ranked higher or beating a team in the Elite Eight.

Transfers/quitting the team DO matter. And we had one player graduate in 3 years and rush off to a non-Div 1 school for grad school so she could play another year elsewhere. Of course there are always going to be some transfers, but never before was it a player leaving mid-season who was going to be an important part of the team in the future.

Injuries are part of the game. Some teams do pull together and go further than they thought possible after a star goes down. Heck, UConn's likely going to the FF with 7 scholarship players. I believe it was 2001 when they lost 2 AA's (Shea Ralph and Svetlana Abrosimova) and still went to the FF and lost to Notre Dame. Yes, the team has had a LOT of injuries. But, IMHO, we should have gotten to ONE Final Four with the talent on the floor.

I want to add that, as a fan of this team, I want nothing more than for this team to win out and reach the Final Four this year and for this post to get thrown in my face. I would gladly eat that crow! You have never seen such crow-eating enjoyment in your life as I will do.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear, but I assumed that when I spoke about winning being important, that it was known that I meant winning when it actually matters. This is women's basketball and I think that we can all agree that the parity in the women's game is almost non existent when compared to the men's game. Her record of 30 win seasons, ACC titles and Elite Eights is great, but this is the Women's game where there's maybe 5 teams that have a chance to win the title every year (1 being Duke), compared to around 30 teams in the men's game. So looking at it that way, I would say that with all of that talent and regular season winning we've had, not making it past the Elite Eight is not even close to good enough.

I'm not really sure why you keep bringing up the fact that I'm a new poster, as if that has some kind of bearing on anything at all. I have been veiwing this site since 2007 and am just not a big poster here, as I usually post on TDD. I've never understood the whole "you're a new poster so you don't know what you're talking about and you're opinion is less valid" perception that goes around on these message boards. I can assure you that I've been a Duke fan since I could walk and have been just as invested in Duke as anyone here, so despite my low post count, I have just as much right as anyone to express my opinons on this team.

Injuries have killed us, I understand that and even spoke to that earlier, so don't think that I haven't taken that into account. I never said coach P doesn't try either, I just said the she doesn't take the blame for how the team performs in the press conferences, which is absolutely true and something a leader should do.

Look I'm not going to argue anymore and I apologize if I struck a nerve, but I think it's very reasonable to be upset with the fact they consistently get DESTROYED by the other elite teams in the nation year after year. This doesn't mean I don't appreciate our girl's effort, because trust me, I do more than anything and that's why I want to see reults, for them. They have worked their buts off and they deserve for some of these 30 win seasons to pay off.

[miramar]

With all this talk about rankings, all I can add is that I understand the women's rankings less and less.

Last week Duke was #7, then they have a very good win vs. Maryland but a few days later get blown out by ND. (An 11 point loss away may not seem so bad on paper, but Duke was down by 17 when McGraw pulled the starters in the final minute, so that's why I call it a blowout.)

I would expect Duke to be out of the top ten, at least temporarily, but it turns out that they are still #7. It's like the games don't matter, but I guess if the stock market goes up when the economy goes down, then anything is possible.

I'm just glad that if a men's team loses two games in one week, they won't stay in the top five. Oops, never mind.

[Duvall]

With all this talk about rankings, all I can add is that I understand the women's rankings less and less.

Last week Duke was #7, then they have a very good win vs. Maryland but a few days later get blown out by ND. (An 11 point loss away may not seem so bad on paper, but Duke was down by 17 when McGraw pulled the starters in the final minute, so that's why I call it a blowout.)

I would expect Duke to be out of the top ten, at least temporarily, but it turns out that they are still #7. It's like the games don't matter, but I guess if the stock market goes up when the economy goes down, then anything is possible.

I'm just glad that if a men's team loses two games in one week, they won't stay in the top five. Oops, never mind.

Well, the fact is that Duke has one of the top ten bodies of work, even with the ND loss. Other teams lose games too.

[Duvall]

Torn ACL for Alexis Jones. (https://mobile.twitter.com/Duke_WBB/status/438081824955568128?p=v) Out for season.

[Duvall]

Torn ACL for Alexis Jones. (https://mobile.twitter.com/Duke_WBB/status/438081824955568128?p=v) Out for season.

Release. (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22760&SPID=1846&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209416584&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

[Bob Green]

This is terrible news for Alexis Jones and the team. This team just can't buy a break when it comes to injuries.

[Dukehky]

No more criticisms or arguments. We've lost our 2 most dynamic players, one of whom was our best and most important player who made everyone else like 6 points better. This is not Coach P's fault, who knows how the season would have turned out if we had stayed healthy. Chelsea was not healthy when we played UCONN, she played, but look at the tape, she was limping up and down the court, and was thus, not as effective as she could have been. It will be a while before we get a senior class as good as this one, both on and off the court.

Getting to another Elite 8 would be outstanding, and getting to a Final Four would be nothing short of a miracle.

This sucks so badly for our seniors, that this season, one with so much promise and such high hopes has been so derailed by injuries. Terrible for Lex too, but she's got one of the best medical staffs in the country at her disposal.

Maybe they're not that good, there have been like 2 ACL tears a year for the past 5 years, it's crazy. Of course that's not the medical staff's fault, but jeeze louise, what a terrible run of injuries.

[AIM4excellence]

This bites. It just bites. For Lexi most of all and for the seniors also. So disappointing for everyone. The team has the rest of the year to show their flexibility and ability to adapt to playing new positions on the fly. Mental toughness being built by necessity. Let's go team and play your little hearts out. PS: Please stay healthy the rest of y'all!

[Kedsy]

No more criticisms or arguments. We've lost our 2 most dynamic players, one of whom was our best and most important player who made everyone else like 6 points better. This is not Coach P's fault, who knows how the season would have turned out if we had stayed healthy. Chelsea was not healthy when we played UCONN, she played, but look at the tape, she was limping up and down the court, and was thus, not as effective as she could have been. It will be a while before we get a senior class as good as this one, both on and off the court.

Getting to another Elite 8 would be outstanding, and getting to a Final Four would be nothing short of a miracle.

This sucks so badly for our seniors, that this season, one with so much promise and such high hopes has been so derailed by injuries. Terrible for Lex too, but she's got one of the best medical staffs in the country at her disposal.

Maybe they're not that good, there have been like 2 ACL tears a year for the past 5 years, it's crazy. Of course that's not the medical staff's fault, but jeeze louise, what a terrible run of injuries.

Well said. With all three of our point guards unavailable, it'll be an upset if we get to the Sweet 16. I'll keep rooting, though. Hopefully, the players will pull through it.

[DukieInKansas]

This bites. It just bites. For Lexi most of all and for the seniors also. So disappointing for everyone. The team has the rest of the year to show their flexibility and ability to adapt to playing new positions on the fly. Mental toughness being built by necessity. Let's go team and play your little hearts out. PS: Please stay healthy the rest of y'all!

Very true.

I hope Alexis heals quickly and completely - she has a long life ahead of her.

[aswewere]

Could it be Jenna's time?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiiKjFo1xuc

[miramar]

Well said. With all three of our point guards unavailable, it'll be an upset if we get to the Sweet 16. I'll keep rooting, though. Hopefully, the players will pull through it.

I certainly won't minimize the seriousness of the injuries, particularly since it's all at the guard position, but this team still has a ton of talent. I'm sure that we are going to see some unusual combinations, and the freshmen will have to step up, but we are fortunate to have some great players.

Seniors:
Chloe Wells: Rankings: No. 36 (Blue Star Report), No. 37 (ASGR), No. 62 (ESPN HoopGurlz), No. 26 (Collegiate Girls Basketball Report). (shin?)
Richa Jackson: Rankings: No. 12 (Blue Star Report), No. 6 (ASGR), No. 6 (ESPN HoopGurlz), No. 25 (Collegiate Girls Basketball Report)
Tricia Liston: Rankings: No. 46 (Blue Star Report), No. 62 (ASGR), No. 33 (ESPN HoopGurlz), No. 28 (Collegiate Girls Basketball Report).
Haley Peters: Rankings: No. 9 (Blue Star Report), No. 18 (ASGR), No. 19 (ESPN HoopGurlz), No. 23 (Collegiate Girls Basketball Report).

Juniors:
Elizabeth Williams: Two-time Associated Press All-America and ACC Defensive Player of the Year. Rankings: No. 1 (All Star Girls Report), No. 1 (Collegiate Girls Basketball Report), No. 2 (ESPN HoopGurlz), No. 2 (Blue Star Report)
Ka’lia Johnson: Rankings: No. 13 (All Star Girls Report), No. 31 (Blue Star Report), No. 82 (ESPN HoopGurlz), No. 94 (Collegiate Girls Basketball Report).

Freshmen:
Kendall McCravey-Cooper: Rankings: No. 9 (Blue Star Report), No. 10 (ASGR), No. 12 (HoopGurlz), No. 41 (Girls Basketball Report)
Oderah Chidon: Rankings: No. 10 (HoopGurlz), No. 79 (Girls Basketball Report), No. 25 (Blue Star Report)
Amber Henson: Rankings: No. 5 (Collegiate Girls Basketball Report), No. 8 (All Star Girls Report), No. 9 (Blue Star Report), No. 20 (ESPN HoopGurlz)

[chrishoke]

Chloe is also out for the year unfortunately. All three of our pgs.

[DU82]

Chloe hasn't played in over a month, and as of the State game is no longer listed in the program as being on the team. (Admittedly only one game.) She also hasn't sat on the bench the last couple of games.

She is listed online as being on the roster, so we're not sure what's going on here.

[Kedsy]

I certainly won't minimize the seriousness of the injuries, particularly since it's all at the guard position, but this team still has a ton of talent. I'm sure that we are going to see some unusual combinations, and the freshmen will have to step up, but we are fortunate to have some great players.

Oh, I agree, and I don't think it's impossible to have further success this season. But without Chelsea, Chloe, and now Alexis, it will be an uphill struggle. Assuming we don't burn Rebecca's redshirt (which I assume we won't), we now have eight available scholarship players (seven on days when Amber can't go). Five of them are centers or power forwards and two are small forwards. The only guard left is Tricia and she's a 6'1" SG. Although thinking about it, we may not have a lot of ballhandling, but we're going to be really tall. Only one scholarship player shorter than 6 foot, and that's Ka'lia at 5'11", who has only been playing around 10 mpg.

Anyway, I'm certainly going to keep the faith, because I believe in both the players and the coaches. But I feel so bad for the team. I'm just sick over this news.

[throatybeard]

Oh, I agree, and I don't think it's impossible to have further success this season. But without Chelsea, Chloe, and now Alexis, it will be an uphill struggle. Assuming we don't burn Rebecca's redshirt (which I assume we won't), we now have eight available scholarship players (seven on days when Amber can't go). Five of them are centers or power forwards and two are small forwards. The only guard left is Tricia and she's a 6'1" SG. Although thinking about it, we may not have a lot of ballhandling, but we're going to be really tall. Only one scholarship player shorter than 6 foot, and that's Ka'lia at 5'11", who has only been playing around 10 mpg.

Anyway, I'm certainly going to keep the faith, because I believe in both the players and the coaches. But I feel so bad for the team. I'm just sick over this news.

This is like the 2002 team (which ended up with eight players) but crazier. I wouldn't want to be Tricia Liston right now.

[Karl Beem]

Chloe is also out for the year unfortunately. All three of our pgs.

A potentially 4th one has transferred.

[AIM4excellence]

Oh, I agree, and I don't think it's impossible to have further success this season. But without Chelsea, Chloe, and now Alexis, it will be an uphill struggle. Assuming we don't burn Rebecca's redshirt (which I assume we won't), we now have eight available scholarship players (seven on days when Amber can't go). Five of them are centers or power forwards and two are small forwards. The only guard left is Tricia and she's a 6'1" SG. Although thinking about it, we may not have a lot of ballhandling, but we're going to be really tall. Only one scholarship player shorter than 6 foot, and that's Ka'lia at 5'11", who has only been playing around 10 mpg.

Anyway, I'm certainly going to keep the faith, because I believe in both the players and the coaches. But I feel so bad for the team. I'm just sick over this news.

This loss is huge on top of already losing Chelsea and Chloe. We started the season with FOUR point guards and have now lost all four. That is just sick. Now we'll see what kind of grit and mental toughness our remaining players and coaching staff have. We need everyone contributing - from Jenna to Candice Jackson. Primarily it's time to put Ka'lia on the floor and see what she can do. She's our most athletic guard - by a long shot, a lock-down defender and great rebounder. Other teams have been forced to play walk on players major minutes (Maryland last year) and while the team could not win the big games, the players on the floor still found ways to shine.

[msdukie]

With all this talk about rankings, all I can add is that I understand the women's rankings less and less.

Last week Duke was #7, then they have a very good win vs. Maryland but a few days later get blown out by ND. (An 11 point loss away may not seem so bad on paper, but Duke was down by 17 when McGraw pulled the starters in the final minute, so that's why I call it a blowout.)

I would expect Duke to be out of the top ten, at least temporarily, but it turns out that they are still #7. It's like the games don't matter, but I guess if the stock market goes up when the economy goes down, then anything is possible.

I'm just glad that if a men's team loses two games in one week, they won't stay in the top five. Oops, never mind.

Duke also beat #14 State during the week.

[miramar]

Duke also beat #14 State during the week.

Last night #8 Penn State lost by 20 to #16 Nebraska, so maybe that #7 is right.

[Class of '94]

Oh, I agree, and I don't think it's impossible to have further success this season. But without Chelsea, Chloe, and now Alexis, it will be an uphill struggle. Assuming we don't burn Rebecca's redshirt (which I assume we won't), we now have eight available scholarship players (seven on days when Amber can't go). Five of them are centers or power forwards and two are small forwards. The only guard left is Tricia and she's a 6'1" SG. Although thinking about it, we may not have a lot of ballhandling, but we're going to be really tall. Only one scholarship player shorter than 6 foot, and that's Ka'lia at 5'11", who has only been playing around 10 mpg.

Anyway, I'm certainly going to keep the faith, because I believe in both the players and the coaches. But I feel so bad for the team. I'm just sick over this news.

i agree with your sentiments Kedsy as well as the other posters. My heart goes out to Alexis, the seniors and the rest of the team. I would be ecstatic if the team made the Sweet 16 or the elite 8 this year given this latest setback. it's going to be tough; but now is the time for us all to rally around this team and the coaching staff. And to the staff's credit, I believe they've done well in helping the team adapt to injuries to key payers that have occurred late in the season. I look forward to see what Coach P and staff come up with to help the team close out the season and make a run in the ACCT and NCAAT. Btw, I was really proud to see the team fight to get back into the ND game and continuing that fight after Alexis went down. Go Duke!!

[msdukie]

Tomorrow's game notes (Wake Forest), note that there are FOUR seniors who will be honored on Senior Night: Gray, Peters, Liston, Jackson. Make of that what you will.