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JBDuke
02-20-2014, 11:16 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

CDu
02-20-2014, 11:17 PM
When we don't make shots, we don't win.

CR9
02-20-2014, 11:18 PM
Never been so genuinely pissed after a loss. Just ridiculously outcoached. Never seen it so bad.

rsvman
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
Pathetic half of basketball. Looked like everybody just gave up, including the coaching staff.

Sad.

CameronDuke
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
You can't go scoreless for nearly 9 minutes in the second half on the road in the ACC and expect to win. Also, you can't give up several uncontested driving layups. Very poor shooting night and defense tonight.

jacone21
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
We scored 2 points over a 9 minute stretch in the second half.

huwezi kushinda kama huwezi alama

sporthenry
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
Everything about this game was bad. Refs were atrocious. Duke's defense never showed up. And the offense didn't do anything in the 2nd half.

Not a ton to take away from this game. Hopefully a motivating factor for Duke going forward but some of those flaws that seemingly disappeared over the past few months have come back up. And the team looks even more fatigued.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
Well, that sucked. Not sure where the offensive rhythm from the first half disappeared to, but lordy, you have to hit shots to win games and we did not hit shots.

Lots of big games left this season, and I doubt our offense will repeat the performance we just saw in the second half.

Next play. Go defend our home turf against the orange interlopers.

JetpackJesus
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
I just can't believe they rushed the court. Everything else has already been said I think.

ncexnyc
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
Absolutely disgusting! We had numerous chances to put this game away and every time we'd make a boneheaded play or take a horrid shot.

About the only bright side was the play of Marshall.

bbosbbos
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
Shut down my tv at 40" left. Very poor game from us. I guess in the 1 & 2 round of NCAA, everyone will use this 1-3-1 zone to fight against us.

loran16
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

I am sick. And TIRED. Of people ignoring reality and giving credit where none is due. Duke lost this game for two reasons:
1. Duke had open perimeter looks against the zone, JUST LIKE AGAINST SYRACUSE, but 42% shooters suddenly couldn't hit a barn.
2. Every foul call went against us - including a 10 minute stretch from the end of the first half to the 2nd, and then after a few unc fouls in row from the 14-10 minute mark, thereafter.

You won't hear about either of these things. But you should FREAKING REMEMBER THEM. Duke will win against Cuse by a good margin. They'll beat UNC at home by double digits. It won't be learning. It'll be regression to the mean, and not having the most biased officiating possible in the freaking world.

So remember that, don't you guys EVEN DARE GIVE CREDIT TO THEM for getting the most favorable circumstances possible to play a basketball game. They deserve absolutely NONE OF IT.

Wander
02-20-2014, 11:19 PM
I know why we lost: we shouldn't have played any of our starters. After all, Duke without any of its starters would still beat UNC 7 out of 10 times, or whatever.

duke4ever19
02-20-2014, 11:20 PM
If we are fatigued now then God help us on Saturday.

LBF
02-20-2014, 11:20 PM
UNC defense was great. 1-3-1 gave us fits. We were gassed early. They deserved the win despite the refs losing control of the game

_Gary
02-20-2014, 11:20 PM
When we don't make shots, we don't win.

The beauty of a deep bench is that when one person isn't shooting well, you can plug another person in just to "test the waters" and see if they can pick the team up. We reverted to old form in the 2nd half and ran our guys into the ground, imho. No Andre and no Matt = big mistake. Again, just my opinion.

CLW
02-20-2014, 11:20 PM
When we don't make shots, we don't win.

Yep b/c we CANNOT rebound and we CANNOT defend.

113.1 defensive "efficiency" and only 56% on the defensive glass.

That just won't cut it period unless you make your shots every game.

This team is just fatally flawed and the only way this team makes a deep march run is if they hit their shots and get in the 110s - 120s in offensive efficiency.

Ichabod Drain
02-20-2014, 11:20 PM
At least we don't have to wait as long for the rematch...

Sincerely,
Bummed and going to bed

downeastdad
02-20-2014, 11:20 PM
I have never, ever, ever, blamed a loss on the officials, but.....

gurufrisbee
02-20-2014, 11:21 PM
That game makes me sick. I don't care what anyone says if that game is even remotely evenly called NC doesn't have a prayer. That officiating was THE most lopsided I've seen in Chapel Hill - and I've been around long enough to see MANY screw jobs in the Dean Dome.

McDonald had a nice first half, Paige had a nice second half.

And to be accurate I would have to use a lot of words this forum wouldn't like and a lot of graphic prison imagery that would be disturbing.

Absolute crap.

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:21 PM
Never been so genuinely pissed after a loss. Just ridiculously outcoached. Never seen it so bad.

Please explain how Roy outcoached Coach K. I'd like to hear specifics.

Duke76
02-20-2014, 11:21 PM
Everything about this game was bad. Refs were atrocious. Duke's defense never showed up. And the offense didn't do anything in the 2nd half.

Not a ton to take away from this game. Hopefully a motivating factor for Duke going forward but some of those flaws that seemingly disappeared over the past few months have come back up. And the team looks even more fatigued.

offense couldn't penetrate the middle, Jabari played horrible defense bad substituting or little or no substituting. carolina played great defense like we played….we looked like GTech from the other night

J4Kop99
02-20-2014, 11:21 PM
Roy brought out the old 1-3-1 and Duke packed up and headed to the bus early. 7+ mins without a basket during the 2nd half. Just a horrific half of basketball.

fisheyes
02-20-2014, 11:21 PM
Can we burn the black jerseys now?

BlueDevilBrowns
02-20-2014, 11:21 PM
I guess K decided not to make the trip to Chapel Hill tonight.

Worst coaching job by him in a LONG time.

When you need offense and someone to make a shot, you choose TT over Dawkins?

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Gthoma2a
02-20-2014, 11:21 PM
Everything about this game was bad. Refs were atrocious. Duke's defense never showed up. And the offense didn't do anything in the 2nd half.

Not a ton to take away from this game. Hopefully a motivating factor for Duke going forward but some of those flaws that seemingly disappeared over the past few months have come back up. And the team looks even more fatigued.

Maybe we learned that in a 3 games in 5 day stretch, you don't tighten up the rotation.

KandG
02-20-2014, 11:22 PM
Duke went back to being a very bad team tonight. Despite very encouraging games from Quinn and Marshall, the second half offense was putrid beyond belief. All one on one and bad jumpshots, couldn't attack a zone properly. Scoreless spell in the second half was just like the drought against Georgia Tech, difference is that Tech is a bad team and Duke could survive that drought. Not tonight.

Disappointing to say the least, will be very interesting to see if Duke can grow from this latest setback, or just remain mired in the bad habits and roster limitations that keep re-surfacing. All credit to UNC, they played incredible defense, and looked like a team that maximizes their talent. Great effort from them.

PSurprise
02-20-2014, 11:22 PM
What happened to getting the ball in the high post? Seemed to work fairly well a few weeks ago. Players were gassed at the end (and the middle of the 2nd half). With the flaws this team has, it needs to have its best players on the court the entire game with as minimal foul trouble as possible and with something left in the tank. I'm disappointed but hopeful going forward

bbq-devil
02-20-2014, 11:22 PM
Pathetic. We are the better team but played the worst 15 minutes of the season down the stretch.

I didn't see us even try to post Jabari once after McAdoo got his third

Dawkins gets no run at all after two good drives and ice cold shooting from everyone

Sulimon gets stripped on a couple of drives and becomes a complete jump shooter

Then we get to watch them rush the court on us

This one will hurt for a while.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-20-2014, 11:22 PM
Are we really complaining about refs and coaching? K was off the bench and all over the place, up in the faces of refs and players.

Refs were rough, but mostly because the game was broken up and there was never much in the way of rhythm.

You can't shoot that bad and blame refs and coaching. This is why I rarely come online after a loss.

Go Duke!

#1Duke
02-20-2014, 11:22 PM
All the analysis I read here . All the numbers, decimal points, how a ranked team wins 75% of the time, how we are the better team, match up to match up we are better, etc. etc. etc.

Now I'm ready to hear the rest.

Please save the "next plays" and "next game" comments. We are almost in March.

I am pissed.

Meckler
02-20-2014, 11:22 PM
EPIC FAIL!!! Call me a fair-weather fan, I don't care. Worst loss in years. Horrendous coaching in the second half. I'm done venting. Need to run a few miles.

Meck

jipops
02-20-2014, 11:22 PM
Our kenpom ranking on offense may be misleading. The past few games it doesn't look at all the same.

The Heels defense handled us and our continuing inability to hit shots killed us.

Are we really way better than the heels?

Potato
02-20-2014, 11:23 PM
trash man that was awful

flyingdutchdevil
02-20-2014, 11:23 PM
I have never, ever, ever, blamed a loss on the officials, but.....

Really? Welcome to DBR. Everyone blames refs for every loss here!

IMO, reffing had very little to do with it. Between the poor coaching (yes, Coach K got completely out coached by Roy, especially in the 2nd half), Jabari settling for jumpers, poor shot selection, and insane D by UNC, we lost.

So, if a few DBR posters mention that UNC is terrible, what does that make us? UNC is a good team. Not Final Four good, but good enough to beat any team on any given night.

Shame. We had a 12 point lead as well in the 2nd half...

loran16
02-20-2014, 11:23 PM
Our kenpom ranking on offense may be misleading. The past few games it doesn't look at all the same.

The Heels defense handled us and our continuing inability to hit shots killed us.

Are we really way better than the heels?

You mean the Heels that were behind for 36 minutes despite our shooting and despite basically a 3-1 FT advantage? Yes.

Duke79UNLV77
02-20-2014, 11:23 PM
We played one of our best game of the years in losing to Cuse. This was one of our worst.

One thing in common: we're minus 19 in fouls between the two games.

We had some open jumpers that we missed and then started driving again. I thought we should have gotten more free throws.

Also would have liked to see Dawkins.

CR9
02-20-2014, 11:23 PM
Shut down my tv at 40" left. Very poor game from us. I guess in the 1 & 2 round of NCAA, everyone will use this 1-3-1 zone to fight against us.

Thing is, they killed Michigan's 1-3-1 and Belein is famous for it.

Tell you what though; I can see them getting beat by double-digits at the weekend, just based on fatigue. Parker and Hood apparently can't play through it and K clearly doesn't trust Dawkins/Jones enough to give them requisite rest.

LBF
02-20-2014, 11:24 PM
I am sick. And TIRED. Of people ignoring reality and giving credit where none is due. Duke lost this game for two reasons:
1. Duke had open perimeter looks against the zone, JUST LIKE AGAINST SYRACUSE, but 42% shooters suddenly couldn't hit a barn.
2. Every foul call went against us - including a 10 minute stretch from the end of the first half to the 2nd, and then after a few unc fouls in row from the 14-10 minute mark, thereafter.

You won't hear about either of these things. But you should FREAKING REMEMBER THEM. Duke will win against Cuse by a good margin. They'll beat UNC at home by double digits. It won't be learning. It'll be regression to the mean, and not having the most biased officiating possible in the freaking world.

So remember that, don't you guys EVEN DARE GIVE CREDIT TO THEM for getting the most favorable circumstances possible to play a basketball game. They deserve absolutely NONE OF IT.

They played good D and hit shots. We didn't. I give them the credit for the win.

Complainig about the calls is somewhat legitimate but it didn't decide the game

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:24 PM
I am sick. And TIRED. Of people ignoring reality and giving credit where none is due. Duke lost this game for two reasons:
1. Duke had open perimeter looks against the zone, JUST LIKE AGAINST SYRACUSE, but 42% shooters suddenly couldn't hit a barn.
2. Every foul call went against us - including a 10 minute stretch from the end of the first half to the 2nd, and then after a few unc fouls in row from the 14-10 minute mark, thereafter.

You won't hear about either of these things. But you should FREAKING REMEMBER THEM. Duke will win against Cuse by a good margin. They'll beat UNC at home by double digits. It won't be learning. It'll be regression to the mean, and not having the most biased officiating possible in the freaking world.

So remember that, don't you guys EVEN DARE GIVE CREDIT TO THEM for getting the most favorable circumstances possible to play a basketball game. They deserve absolutely NONE OF IT.

Maybe the most heart-warming post all season.

Wheat/"/"/"
02-20-2014, 11:24 PM
Very satisfying win as a Heel fan after a difficult start to the year.

Good night all.

ChicagoCrazy84
02-20-2014, 11:24 PM
I have never, ever, ever, blamed a loss on the officials, but.....

It's not the refs fault, sure it was bad but we deserved to lose that game.

I am seething mad right now. I have never seen a Duke offense so comically inept. Just awful. What was Coach K thinking? No Dawkins, Jones, even Ojeleye or Hairston? Come on man, you started going on a roll when you started rolling out these 4-5 man substitutions, why completely go away from it? Are you afraid to play them against better competition? We did the same damn thing for 10-12 minutes in the 2nd half and it just got worse and worse. What a pathetic display of coaching and basketball.

Furniture
02-20-2014, 11:25 PM
For our young guys it must have been tough to play in that atmosphere. You can't win me all.i am sure I would c##p my pants.
They will learn from this.
Life goes on....

CLW
02-20-2014, 11:25 PM
The officiating was bad (it almost always is as the NCAA's officials are just awful in general) however the officiating had ZERO impact on the outcome of this game. Our nearly 10 minute scoreless stretch was do to HORRIBLE execution against the mix and match zones Roy went to and it was all downhill after that.

This team is pretty simple they hit shots they are tough to beat. They don't they won't be able to gut it out with defense and rebounding.

Gmadaduke
02-20-2014, 11:25 PM
Riddle me this: why not give Dre more than 10 mins? We went 9 mins or so without a basket. Why not give him a try to see if he gets the hot hand? I just don't get it...

J4Kop99
02-20-2014, 11:25 PM
Thing is, they killed Michigan's 1-3-1 and Belein is famous for it.

Tell you what though; I can see them getting beat by double-digits at the weekend, just based on fatigue. Parker and Hood apparently can't play through it and K clearly doesn't trust Dawkins/Jones enough to give them requisite rest.

They knew that one was coming.

PSurprise
02-20-2014, 11:26 PM
Are we really way better than the heels?


For the past two hours? No

CoachJ10
02-20-2014, 11:26 PM
I am sick. And TIRED. Of people ignoring reality and giving credit where none is due. Duke lost this game for two reasons:
1. Duke had open perimeter looks against the zone, JUST LIKE AGAINST SYRACUSE, but 42% shooters suddenly couldn't hit a barn.
2. Every foul call went against us - including a 10 minute stretch from the end of the first half to the 2nd, and then after a few unc fouls in row from the 14-10 minute mark, thereafter.

You won't hear about either of these things. But you should FREAKING REMEMBER THEM. Duke will win against Cuse by a good margin. They'll beat UNC at home by double digits. It won't be learning. It'll be regression to the mean, and not having the most biased officiating possible in the freaking world.

So remember that, don't you guys EVEN DARE GIVE CREDIT TO THEM for getting the most favorable circumstances possible to play a basketball game. They deserve absolutely NONE OF IT.

31 fta for unc, 12 for duke. The calls changed the way we played defense in the second half. And really, the only way unc was scoring against us...was on the free throw line.

I have said this on many occasions...the ACC deserves so much better when it comes to officials.

91_92_01_10_15
02-20-2014, 11:26 PM
I have to say that it takes some of the sting out of it for me when I see them rush the court after winning. I hope that we never rush the court against anyone when we beat them in our house. It should be expected.

Mabdul Doobakus
02-20-2014, 11:27 PM
Eh. I can't put this one on the refs.

As tends to happen often with this team, as we started to get into the last 12 minutes of the game, they totally got out of their offense. There was little to no purposeful ball movement and a lot of poor shot selection. You almost forgot Jabari existed down the stretch, as no one bothered to feed him the ball. We missed a lot of shots as well. Defense wasn't great, but I thought it was good enough to win the game if we could have kept our composure on offense. You also have to credit the UNC crowd, who made a lot of noise, and probably affected our composure down the stretch. Tip of the cap to other guys from me...I thought we got outplayed in the second half.

CR9
02-20-2014, 11:28 PM
Please explain how Roy outcoached Coach K. I'd like to hear specifics.

Williams trusted his bench to do a job, K did not. Roy switch defenses so Duke couldn't get a rhythm, K did not. Roy quite clearly motivated his team which K most certainly did not.

DUKIE V(A)
02-20-2014, 11:28 PM
Came out after halftime and played lazy, lousy defense early in second half. Didn't set the tone. Paid the price.

gurufrisbee
02-20-2014, 11:28 PM
NC is good and they are playing that way. And they were at home and more rested and all that. But seriously

IF THE TWO TEAMS SHOOT THE SAME NUMBER OF FREE THROWS, DUKE WINS EASILY.

And there is no good reason that shouldn't have happened. We're more talented, more aggressive attacking the hoop, and certainly play defense as well or better.

There were a lot of things that could have gone differently and many of them for the better for Duke, but the absolute crap that was the lopsided and poor officiating 100% decided the outcome of the game.

Emerrick
02-20-2014, 11:29 PM
5 players with 4 fouls.
58% from the free throw line (worse than UNC)
12 Fts to their 31 (just wow....)
22% from 3 pt line / 5 of 22
9 min scoring drought.

Cook/Plumlee showing up is the only positive I can take from this one.

Next game...

gocanes0506
02-20-2014, 11:29 PM
I fail to see how the 1-3-1 gave us fits. Because the team missed shots? Duke took the shots Duke always takes, Open Threes! The D didn't give the team any issues. Minus that tie up at the end were there any turnovers during the 1-3-1? Were there many contested jumpers in the 1-3-1? Not many that I saw. Just missed wide open jumpers. A lot of flatness in the shots and most were short. Not enough subbing the 2nd half.

vrob90
02-20-2014, 11:29 PM
With Duke's offense stone cold in the second half, I see no plausible explanation whatsoever for not having Dawkins on the floor. Some obviously questionable coaching decisions.

CoachJ10
02-20-2014, 11:29 PM
The officiating was bad (it almost always is as the NCAA's officials are just awful in general) however the officiating had ZERO impact on the outcome of this game. Our nearly 10 minute scoreless stretch was do to HORRIBLE execution against the mix and match zones Roy went to and it was all downhill after that.

This team is pretty simple they hit shots they are tough to beat. They don't they won't be able to gut it out with defense and rebounding.

You are right that the officiating in general was bad. But wrong in saying it didn't affect the game. UNC was not scoring without the charity stripe giving them free chances.

CDu
02-20-2014, 11:29 PM
5-22 from 3, 7-12 from the line, 5 assists to 12 turnovers, outrebounded by 13. When you put up numbers like these, you deserve to lose.

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:29 PM
I guess K decided not to make the trip to Chapel Hill tonight.

Worst coaching job by him in a LONG time.

When you need offense and someone to make a shot, you choose TT over Dawkins?

Yeah, that's the ticket.

Based on what I saw, Dawkins was off from deep and got driven by multiple times. He did not earn more minutes.

Were you whining about Coach K when Duke was up 11, or just when the shooting went cold and the refs kicked in with phantom fouls?

Bad post, buddy.

CR9
02-20-2014, 11:30 PM
They knew that one was coming.

Should that matter? A 1-3-1 is a 1-3-1; you attack it the same way. Michigan's is arguably more difficult to score against because they're a long team.

sporthenry
02-20-2014, 11:30 PM
I don't understand why everyone boils things down to either the refs lost the game or didn't lose the game. When you lose, it's a combination of factors but lets not pretend the refs didn't influence this game. Yes, Duke could have still done other things to win but the refs were definitely a part of it. Two phantom charge calls which would be your 4 point differential before Duke started fouling.

Not that this excuses Duke's lack of rhythm on offense. Settling for bad shots. Ignoring your best player. Just missing lay ups. And the defense/offensive rebounding being bad isn't really a surprise. All these factors contributed to the loss.

_Gary
02-20-2014, 11:30 PM
Maybe the most heart-warming post all season.

Amen! I also concur. I'm not about to gush over the Heels for this win. Like Syracuse, all they had to do in the 2nd half is either hit foul shots or layups. Not much more than that.

throatybeard
02-20-2014, 11:31 PM
Can we burn the black jerseys now?

If that happened, I might actually accept this loss as a good thing.

Mabdul Doobakus
02-20-2014, 11:31 PM
I will add to the chorus of people wondering where the hell Andre Dawkins was. We really, really could have used him out there when the offense went to pieces.

FerryFor50
02-20-2014, 11:32 PM
I find it absolutely amazing how so many people can watch the same game and see entirely different things.

Roy's coaching was "play 1-3-1 and hope they miss wide open jumpers or drive and hope we don't foul them." I wouldn't call that a stroke of genius. He simply tried the 1-3-1, Duke kept missing shots. Rest is history. They didn't rush Duke into bad shots or turnovers. Duke just shot poorly, which was one of the things I said in the pre-game thread would cause Duke to lose.

Duke's missed shots led to long rebounds, which led to easy points in transition. Foul trouble led to softer defense in the 2nd half.

That's why we lost.

Now, why that game was horrible to watch?

Seeing Duke try to drive or post up and get hammered time after time with no call. Yes, Duke took a lot of 3s, but not until late when Roy went to 1-3-1. The man to man defense they played early was designed to take away the 3 point attempts, and it did. They stayed within striking distance because Duke couldn't buy a call on a shot. All of the foul calls against UNC came on player control fouls or non-shooting attempts. That doesn't mean that's where all the fouls occurred...

If anyone can honestly watch that game and say there wasn't some home cooking going on, you are insane. INSANE.

Re-watch the game and use the replay feature. It will be the first time you actually get to see 2nd looks at some of that garbage out there.

Again, Duke lost because they couldn't hit shots. The fouls would not have mattered if they even shoot close to their usual %. In fact, had Hood buried two of his three wide open looks, I almost guarantee Roy backs out of that junk defense and goes back to the old reliable man to man.

Awful loss. Hopefully character building.

#1Duke
02-20-2014, 11:32 PM
5 players with 4 fouls.
58% from the free throw line (worse than UNC)
12 Fts to their 31 (just wow....)
22% from 3 pt line / 5 of 22
9 min scoring drought.

Cook/Plumlee showing up is the only positive I can take from this one.

Next game...

It wasn't the refs...... there is most of the answer right there.

We live and die by the 3..... just the way it is.

CDu
02-20-2014, 11:32 PM
5-22 from 3, 7-12 from the line, 5 assists to 12 turnovers, outrebounded by 13. When you put up numbers like these, you deserve to lose.

I will reiterate. We struggled tonight in most facets of the game. When we don't hit shots, this can happen.

LBF
02-20-2014, 11:32 PM
This team will rebound from this loss. We were gassed. It's tough to score when you are exhausted. Coach K wanted to see if our core guys could get through this one. I think he was concerned about bringing in Dre after seeing him almost turn the ball over in the face of pressure. Refs didn't pick the winner. All this scorched earth on the board is just ludicrous.

Next up Cuse. We will be hungry but still tired.

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:33 PM
All the analysis I read here . All the numbers, decimal points, how a ranked team wins 75% of the time, how we are the better team, match up to match up we are better, etc. etc. etc.

Now I'm ready to hear the rest.

Please save the "next plays" and "next game" comments. We are almost in March.

I am pissed.

You should be pissed because Duke didnt have a great effort tonight.

But those decimal points are still true.

Add something to the conversation but do not come here to vent. No one wants to read posts that do not add to the conversation.

slower
02-20-2014, 11:33 PM
I am sick. And TIRED. Of people ignoring reality and giving credit where none is due. Duke lost this game for two reasons:
1. Duke had open perimeter looks against the zone, JUST LIKE AGAINST SYRACUSE, but 42% shooters suddenly couldn't hit a barn.
2. Every foul call went against us - including a 10 minute stretch from the end of the first half to the 2nd, and then after a few unc fouls in row from the 14-10 minute mark, thereafter.

You won't hear about either of these things. But you should FREAKING REMEMBER THEM. Duke will win against Cuse by a good margin. They'll beat UNC at home by double digits. It won't be learning. It'll be regression to the mean, and not having the most biased officiating possible in the freaking world.

So remember that, don't you guys EVEN DARE GIVE CREDIT TO THEM for getting the most favorable circumstances possible to play a basketball game. They deserve absolutely NONE OF IT.

Wow. You're absolutely right.

You know, unless you're absolutely wrong.

luvdahops
02-20-2014, 11:33 PM
They played good D and hit shots. We didn't. I give them the credit for the win.

Complainig about the calls is somewhat legitimate but it didn't decide the game

Refs were bad both ways tonight. What cost us the game was going away from attacking the rim aggressively, and settling for way too many jumpers on a night when they weren't falling, just like the 2Hs vs Maryland and GT. This is looking like a potentially fatal flaw for this that must get straightened out ASAP.

Also have to question the substitution pattern in the second half. No Andre, as others have mentioned, but maybe more importantly, Quinn - our most effective player by far tonight - seemed to be sitting for long stretches as well.

Saratoga2
02-20-2014, 11:33 PM
The beauty of a deep bench is that when one person isn't shooting well, you can plug another person in just to "test the waters" and see if they can pick the team up. We reverted to old form in the 2nd half and ran our guys into the ground, imho. No Andre and no Matt = big mistake. Again, just my opinion.

The same guys who did well in the first half couldn't hit their shots in the second. That included Hood and Jabari to some extent. It appeared that we were a tired team including missing shots by a lot and having lapses on defense. I agree that both Andre and Matt might have tightened up the defense and potentially provided some additional offense. UNC played a lot of bigs against us and were effective wearing us down. Their guards seemed fresher in the end.

Marshall gave us a lift as did Quinn in the second half, but Quinn missed critical free throws and tried to do too much when the game got out of reach.

Give UNC credit, they totally outplayed us in the second half.

Kjeffrey
02-20-2014, 11:33 PM
From the moment this game started Carolina seemed more prepared for the game. We were able to build a lead because we have more talented players. However, it is impossible to maintain a lead when:

1. You allow the other team to score 34 points in the last 15 minutes of the game.
2. Exhausted ineffective players stay in the game while there are fresh, capable legs on the bench.
3. There is no change in the offensive approach to a 1-3-1 zone despite going scoreless for almost 10 minutes.
4. The very offensively talented players on the team settle for jump shots and three pointers rather than driving.
5. Every drive by the opposing team results in a foul being called by the refs.

Carolina played a good game but part of that was the direct result of our very poor play.

flyingdutchdevil
02-20-2014, 11:33 PM
Based on what I saw, Dawkins was off from deep and got driven by multiple times. He did not earn more minutes.

Were you whining about Coach K when Duke was up 11, or just when the shooting went cold and the refs kicked in with phantom fouls?

Bad post, buddy.

Coach K failed on two fronts in the second half: 1) he didn't motivate his team enough. I felt as though Jabari and Hood - our two offensive threats - weren't that threatening in the 2nd half. 2) We settled for a lot of poor shots. Now, that may be on the players - and it is partially - but the coaching staff should have had a better plan to counter the D.

I give huge credit to RoyWill for this win. He somehow got his players motivated when THEY WERE DOWN 12 POINTS. His D schemes were effective. His team pounding the ball in and going for O rebounds worked. It was a good plan. Coach K got out-coached. I think that's a lot more valid than DBR's favorite "the refs blew it for us" excuse.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-20-2014, 11:33 PM
My lord. Is this the same fan base that suffers through explaining free throw dispairities in our favor, nine games out of ten? The explains away a team playing desperate, styles of play, etc when the tables are turned?

I will say it one more time... if you want to win, you have to score. To score, you have to hit shots.

We went a long time without hitting shots. We lost.

gcashwell
02-20-2014, 11:34 PM
I have been frustrated with K's lineup choices all year. We got tired tonight. That's what happens when you play this many games in a week and don't rest your starters.

No excuse for Dre sitting the second half unless he was hurt.

K seems intent on not trying anything that doesn't fit his typical style. But that doesn't work any more.

karmacoma
02-20-2014, 11:34 PM
Based on what's left on our schedule vs. what's left on UNC's and Pitt's respective schedules, a fourth or even fifth place finish have now become very distinct possibilities. Hard not to be a tad disappointed in light of the preseason expectations.

I'm trying to remain optimistic, and buy into the theory that the guys have yet to put it all together, that there's still room for improvement, that we'll peak at the right time. The way we've failed to execute in the second half of games recently, however, has me questioning that theory.

Saturday should be telling. Two teams coming off losses. Both arguably a little overrated. Both with a lot to prove. Gut-check time. Next play.

sporthenry
02-20-2014, 11:34 PM
I fail to see how the 1-3-1 gave us fits. Because the team missed shots? Duke took the shots Duke always takes, Open Threes! The D didn't the team any issues. Minus that tie up at the end were there any turnovers during the 1-3-1? Were there many contested jumpers in the 1-3-1? Not many that I saw. Just missed wide open jumpers. A lot of flatness in the shots and most were short. Not enough subbing the 2nd half.

I don't think the 1-3-1 was that big of a factor. Duke was already 4-5 minutes into their funk before the 1-3-1 even came out. It might have surprised Duke for a possession or two but beyond that, it isn't like they didn't get shots off, they just resorted to jacking up 3's.

Now to people saying Duke just missed shots it normally takes, this is wrong. 1 v 1 or screens off ball screens are never going to be high % shots. The one time t hey attacked UNC's zone (the 3-2), Cook got a wide open 3 in rhythm and nailed it. Next time down the court, he forced a 3 off the dribble and missed.

CoachJ10
02-20-2014, 11:34 PM
I don't understand why everyone boils things down to either the refs lost the game or didn't lose the game. When you lose, it's a combination of factors but lets not pretend the refs didn't influence this game. Yes, Duke could have still done other things to win but the refs were definitely a part of it. Two phantom charge calls which would be your 4 point differential before Duke started fouling.

Not that this excuses Duke's lack of rhythm on offense. Settling for bad shots. Ignoring your best player. Just missing lay ups. And the defense/offensive rebounding being bad isn't really a surprise. All these factors contributed to the loss.

The refs changed the way Duke played defense. We were worried about fouling and were very tentative. And when you give a team like UNC that was struggling against out half court defense...free chances to score...it definitely impacts the outcome.

Chicken Little
02-20-2014, 11:35 PM
Based on what I saw, Dawkins was off from deep and got driven by multiple times. He did not earn more minutes.

Were you whining about Coach K when Duke was up 11, or just when the shooting went cold and the refs kicked in with phantom fouls?

Bad post, buddy.

Agreed. Dawkins had his chance. He doesn't typically warm up after missing 3 or 4 from deep. Love him, but Thornton is a better defensive option (provided the refs aren't calling silly hand check fouls).

I don't like blaming refs either, but it's a lot easier to settle for jumpers when you can't expect a fair shake driving to the hoop.

duke4ever19
02-20-2014, 11:35 PM
I have never, ever, ever, blamed a loss on the officials, but.....

I have a couple philosopher friends who were lifelong Stanford fans (both graduates). After a years of watching these types of questionable calls in games (and aren't there a lot of them!), they became convinced that most publicity/revenue-dependent sports (including college sports) are overrun with corruption (this was before the NBA ref scandal and spygate etc.) and neither one has watched a game since. I'd love to find the paper one of them wrote on the subject.

Tonight's game just makes me wonder. I know Duke went cold. But there were very few opportunities to get any rhythm. UNC had to shoot twice as many shots as we did in order to stay within reach (based on their poor free throw shooting percentage). Jabari had that bucket waved off due to a phantom offensive foul. A key moment where Duke could have kept matching UNC's scores. That bizarre call really was a gut-punch to the team.

Billy Dat
02-20-2014, 11:36 PM
Eh. I can't put this one on the refs.

As tends to happen often with this team, as we started to get into the last 12 minutes of the game, they totally got out of their offense. There was little to no purposeful ball movement and a lot of poor shot selection. You almost forgot Jabari existed down the stretch, as no one bothered to feed him the ball. We missed a lot of shots as well. Defense wasn't great, but I thought it was good enough to win the game if we could have kept our composure on offense. You also have to credit the UNC crowd, who made a lot of noise, and probably affected our composure down the stretch. Tip of the cap to other guys from me...I thought we got outplayed in the second half.

I agree with this.

Also, I am rarely one to criticize the coaching, but I did not love the line-ups K was trotting out after they started to cut into the lead, I thought Cook sat too long, and I thought we had no plan to attack that zone. I credit Roy with saving that zone for the second half and confusing us. Our guys looked tired, and I am sure it was an emotional fatigue.

Still, we had many many chances to salt this game away. The two missed lay-ups by Amile and Jabari between the 10 minute and 8/5 minute mark were really big. We were having trouble scoring and those baskets would have pushed the lead to 6 or maybe 8. Cook's missed free throw when the score was tied at 60 with 4 left was also big - although that is all I will say bad about Quinn as I thought he had a good game. Yes, we missed shots, but they weren't great shots...lots of 3s after the shooter dribbled for 5-7 seconds. Rodney couldn't really get anything going after his hot start, Rasheed had a really bad night on offense. We did a really bad job of getting good shots, but UNC is a top 15 defense for a reason I guess. We also lost composure once they took the lead, failing to foul their really poor free throw shooters when we had the chance.

It was one of those games when we gave them too many chances to stick around and they turned the tables on us, especially Mr. Paige. I do think we'll stick it to them when we play at home.

Mabdul Doobakus
02-20-2014, 11:36 PM
There's almost always SOME home cooking going on in basketball (unless your head referee is Joey Crawford), and probably most sports. It's human nature. I didn't think the imbalance of calls was particularly egregious in this one. Not saying the officiating was great, because plenty of bad calls went both ways. I just didn't think the imbalance was particularly striking, nor do I think it was one of the bigger reasons why we lost this game. And free throw margin doesn't always tell the whole story...never been a big fan of that argument.

sporthenry
02-20-2014, 11:36 PM
The refs changed the way Duke played defense. We were worried about fouling and were very tentative. And when you give a team like UNC that was struggling against out half court defense...free chances to score...it definitely impacts the outcome.

I agree. Not that Duke's D was great but it was almost an impossible task with the refs.

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:37 PM
Riddle me this: why not give Dre more than 10 mins? We went 9 mins or so without a basket. Why not give him a try to see if he gets the hot hand? I just don't get it...

I thought Unc played the passing lanes well, in addition to pushing Andre off the 3-line when he did get catches. It was clearly a point of emphasis for them. Parking Andre in the corner would not have stretched the D as it otherwise might. We needed to penetrate and Andre did not fit into that.

Dr. Tina
02-20-2014, 11:37 PM
Can we burn the black jerseys now?

Yes, please...NOW! I don't care if it sounds superstitious. I don't like the black uniforms. They reminded me of CUSE's horrendous uniforms in last night's game.

#1Duke
02-20-2014, 11:37 PM
I may have read the numbers wrong but wasn't UNC also in foul trouble? I mean, it wasn't just our guys that were in foul trouble.

It wasn't the refs.

jipops
02-20-2014, 11:38 PM
Very satisfying win as a Heel fan after a difficult start to the year.

Good night all.

They earned it tonight.

bbq-devil
02-20-2014, 11:38 PM
I still don't understand why we didn't start trying post up when the shots were not falling. McAdoo was in foul trouble and Johnson fouled out. Jabari has shown he can do this very well as can Hood with a sweet turn around. Heck I would have even tried to post Marshall as aggressive as he was playing

When you have tired legs you go inside

Just awful

mattman91
02-20-2014, 11:38 PM
Well, time to drown the sorrows. 8am meeting tomorrow, but for now RELEASE THE KRAkEN!

Potato
02-20-2014, 11:38 PM
refs were trash i agree but that unc team has no business even being on the same floor as us. that second half honestly might be the worst we've played all year that or clemson

mapleleafdevil
02-20-2014, 11:38 PM
Wow. One of the most disheartening losses I have seen. Not just because it was Carolina, but because it really spoke volumes about this team imo.

Outcoached - We could not figure out a simple 1-3-1. We are out there trying to set screens? Are you kidding me? C'mon coach K.
Selfish - Jabari barely touched the ball. Hood was jacking up ill advised shots the entire second half. Sulaimon with a couple stinkers.
Substitutions - Where was babyface against the zone? No burn. Quinn needs to be on way more. Let the guy play through his struggles.


I feel like we got out-Duked by Carolina.

And the good?

Marshall

CDu
02-20-2014, 11:38 PM
I agree with this.

Also, I am rarely one to criticize the coaching, but I did not love the line-ups K was trotting out after they started to cut into the lead, I thought Cook sat too long, and I thought we had no plan to attack that zone. I credit Roy with saving that zone for the second half and confusing us. Our guys looked tired, and I am sure it was an emotional fatigue.

Still, we had many many chances to salt this game away. The two missed lay-ups by Amile and Jabari between the 10 minute and 8/5 minute mark were really big. We were having trouble scoring and those baskets would have pushed the lead to 6 or maybe 8. Cook's missed free throw when the score was tied at 60 with 4 left was also big - although that is all I will say bad about Quinn as I thought he had a good game. Yes, we missed shots, but they weren't great shots...lots of 3s after the shooter dribbled for 5-7 seconds. Rodney couldn't really get anything going after his hot start, Rasheed had a really bad night on offense. We did a really bad job of getting good shots, but UNC is a top 15 defense for a reason I guess. We also lost composure once they took the lead, failing to foul their really poor free throw shooters when we had the chance.

It was one of those games when we gave them too many chances to stick around and they turned the tables on us, especially Mr. Paige. I do think we'll stick it to them when we play at home.

Completely, wholeheartedly, agree. You nailed it. We had LOTS of chances to put this away. But we were atrocious offensively in the second half.

MCFinARL
02-20-2014, 11:39 PM
Really? Welcome to DBR. Everyone blames refs for every loss here!

IMO, reffing had very little to do with it. Between the poor coaching (yes, Coach K got completely out coached by Roy, especially in the 2nd half), Jabari settling for jumpers, poor shot selection, and insane D by UNC, we lost.

So, if a few DBR posters mention that UNC is terrible, what does that make us? UNC is a good team. Not Final Four good, but good enough to beat any team on any given night.

Shame. We had a 12 point lead as well in the 2nd half...

Okay, number one, the reffing was not good. But I agree that isn't why Duke lost. Refs didn't lose that 12-point lead for us all by themselves.

Number two, I would hesitate to say K got outcoached by Roy because I'm not enough of an expert. BUT Roy coached a good game, and at the very least, I would question K's substitution decisions. I would have liked to see more of Andre, or wait make that any of Andre, in the second half. Sulaimon throwing up bad jumpers way early in the shot clock, Thornton with no offense at all, Hood saddled with major foul trouble, everyone looking really gassed, why not give Andre a shot? His defense isn't always perfect but since the entire team didn't play defense the second half, what difference would it have made?

Number three, Jabari settling for jumpers, poor shot selection and insane D by UNC--yes, yes and yes.

Can't help wishing that we had gotten to play this game last week, but today they beat us--and we let them. Ugh.

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:39 PM
Williams trusted his bench to do a job, K did not. Roy switch defenses so Duke couldn't get a rhythm, K did not. Roy quite clearly motivated his team which K most certainly did not.

Marhsall played effectively off the bench and got more minutes than usual. Do you disagree?

Cook came off the bench and had a better game than anyone on the team.

Do those two guys not count? Or do you care to clarify? Or did the guys you wanted to succeed off the bench not succede enough so you make an inaccurate, blanket statement?

tbyers11
02-20-2014, 11:40 PM
Yep b/c we CANNOT rebound and we CANNOT defend.

113.1 defensive "efficiency" and only 56% on the defensive glass.

That just won't cut it period unless you make your shots every game.

This team is just fatally flawed and the only way this team makes a deep march run is if they hit their shots and get in the 110s - 120s in offensive efficiency.

Defense was just fine until the last 4 minutes. UNC made a few plays and the the FTs at the end ruined the Deff. Bad offense lost this game not bad defense

FerryFor50
02-20-2014, 11:41 PM
I thought Unc played the passing lanes well, in addition to pushing Andre off the 3-line when he did get catches. It was clearly a point of emphasis for them. Parking Andre in the corner would not have stretched the D as it otherwise might. We needed to penetrate and Andre did not fit into that.

I dunno, Dre had some nice drives. Even got an "and one."

I think TT wasn't as effective as usual out there. Dre was cold in the first half, but didn't really get any shots in the 2nd half. Conversely, Hood was red hot in the first but kept firing away in the 2nd. Would have been good to keep mixing in guys and help alleviate some of the foul trouble. I would have liked to see Jones out there on Paige for a bit, especially when Paige started to get going. And honestly, I was surprised we didn't see Hairston out there on Meeks a bit to help keep Amile fresh and out of foul trouble.

That would be my ONLY criticism of K's coaching tonight. Bad habits die hard. A deeper bench would have helped a bit on the defensive end. But I don't think he was "outcoached."

BobbyFan
02-20-2014, 11:42 PM
We were hurt badly on the defensive boards. Some of it was just a matter of being outdone by their length, but we could also use a better effort. Rodney continued his trend of failing to box out, and it cost us a few times today. He didn't grab a single rebound.

Agree that Andre could have played more.

CDu
02-20-2014, 11:42 PM
Marhsall played effectively off the bench and got more minutes than usual. Do you disagree?

Cook came off the bench and had a better game than anyone on the team.

Do those two guys not count? Or do you care to clarify? Or did the guys you wanted to succeed off the bench not succede enough so you make an inaccurate, blanket statement?

Yup. We had 59 minutes from our bench. UNC played theirs just 49. I don't think "willingness to play one's bench" is a strong argument here.

Potato
02-20-2014, 11:43 PM
Wow. One of the most disheartening losses I have seen. Not just because it was Carolina, but because it really spoke volumes about this team imo.

Outcoached - We could not figure out a simple 1-3-1. We are out there trying to set screens? Are you kidding me? C'mon coach K.
Selfish - Jabari barely touched the ball. Hood was jacking up ill advised shots the entire second half. Sulaimon with a couple stinkers.
Substitutions - Where was babyface against the zone? No burn. Quinn needs to be on way more. Let the guy play through his struggles.


I feel like we got out-Duked by Carolina.

And the good?

Marshall

Cook played pretty good for most of the game

Kfanarmy
02-20-2014, 11:43 PM
I thought Carolina played a great second half defensively. To be honest Duke hit some highly contested shots in the first half.
- Duke's Defense was decent throughout I thought, but Carolina really contested the three point line.
- QC and JP seemed to be the best options as far as driving the ball. JP is good in space, but his dribble can get away from him in a tight lane.
- Hard fought game.
- I'm not sure what Duke can do to overcome the lateral foot speed issue that they seem to have.
- Carolina simply doesn't get called for fouls near the rim as I said in a previous thread...I'm not sure why because I thought Duke was fouled on several drives...QC was tripped on that last "held ball" I thought, and that is just one example. I've watched several of their games and am just flummoxed as to why they aren't getting called for a lot of bumps and trips on the interior, but Duke has not adjusted that well to the way the games are being called it seems.
- The best thing about this game is that Duke got to see another tough defense, and hopefully can learn from it...but I think talk of a number one seed can probably stop, I would expect them to drop to around 10-12, if this were the only game remaining for the week, and my eye tells me that's about right, statistics not withstanding.
- Roy continued to substitute liberally and a couple of Duke's stars were wearing down at the end of the game.
- I once again thought MP3 played well.
- I haven't seen the minutes, but looks like Carolina used 11 players to Duke's 8.
- When its all said and done, Carolina won this game at the free throw line, much of that due to the way they were attacking the basket, some of it due to the type of fouls being called. Every game I've seen them win has been the same way...Duke hit one more basket, had three more threes and still lost by 8. That disparity just shouldn't happen to a top 5 team.
- I flatly disagree that this team gave up, but they were outplayed down the stretch.

FerryFor50
02-20-2014, 11:43 PM
Defense was just fine until the last 4 minutes. UNC made a few plays and the the FTs at the end ruined the Deff. Bad offense lost this game not bad defense

Agreed, but soft defense due to foul trouble helped UNC get back into it. I thought the first half's defense was pretty darn good. They really shut down Paige.

They let Paige get going in the 2nd half, though...

And WTF. LESLIE MCDONALD????

MCFinARL
02-20-2014, 11:43 PM
I thought Unc played the passing lanes well, in addition to pushing Andre off the 3-line when he did get catches. It was clearly a point of emphasis for them. Parking Andre in the corner would not have stretched the D as it otherwise might. We needed to penetrate and Andre did not fit into that.

Except that he did drive successfully twice tonight, producing 5 points. Agree they were on him like flypaper at the three point line but it still might have been worth a try.

sporthenry
02-20-2014, 11:43 PM
Based on what I saw, Dawkins was off from deep and got driven by multiple times. He did not earn more minutes.


Wait, are we basing PT off of guys getting blown by because that would mean nobody earned minutes tonight. TT might be a better defender but when UNC has 4 other guys blowing by their defenders, what is a 5th especially when it at least adds a bit of O.

Gmadaduke
02-20-2014, 11:43 PM
Wow. One of the most disheartening losses I have seen. Not just because it was Carolina, but because it really spoke volumes about this team imo.

Outcoached - We could not figure out a simple 1-3-1. We are out there trying to set screens? Are you kidding me? C'mon coach K.
Selfish - Jabari barely touched the ball. Hood was jacking up ill advised shots the entire second half. Sulaimon with a couple stinkers.
Substitutions - Where was babyface against the zone? No burn. Quinn needs to be on way more. Let the guy play through his struggles.


I feel like we got out-Duked by Carolina.

And the good?

Marshall


In the spirit of being optimistic and trying to focus on positives in the wake of that horrible performance, I add one more to the "good" list:

Unlike Carolina's athletes, ours can read at a college level.

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:44 PM
With Duke's offense stone cold in the second half, I see no plausible explanation whatsoever for not having Dawkins on the floor. Some obviously questionable coaching decisions.

Dawkins was 0-3 from 3. Unc game-planned for him. He is unlikely to score much off the dribble, which is the appropriate response to
Unc over-playing the passing lanes. He was not going to have a big game.

It would have been questionable coaching to leave him in and play 4 on 5.

Or do you have something more useful to add that refutes what I just said?

BlueDevilBrowns
02-20-2014, 11:44 PM
Based on what I saw, Dawkins was off from deep and got driven by multiple times. He did not earn more minutes.

Were you whining about Coach K when Duke was up 11, or just when the shooting went cold and the refs kicked in with phantom fouls?

Bad post, buddy.


First off, I'm not your buddy.

Secondly, criticizing Coach K's effort tonight isn't whining, it's my opinion. Just like you "whining" about bad officiating is just your opinion. We didn't lose tonight because of the officials, we lost because our offense went M.I.A. for the 2nd half.

Dawkins did miss a couple of shots early on, but he drove the lane and got to the foul line, too. Additionally, we all know Dawkins is a great shooter, so the law of averages says, at some point, he's going to make a couple of shots. And 1 three made during that 9 minute drought of ours could have been just enough to change the momentum.

Further, when Duke was down 2 possessions with little time left, of what benefit is Tyler over Dawkins at that point? You don't need Tyler on D, because we went into foul mode and UNC was killing clock anyways.

Dawkins role is instant offense. If you don't use him tonight in the perfect situation for him to be used in, then, IMO, it's BAD coaching.

K is a legendary, amazing coach that is perhaps the greatest modern coach in all of sports, but he is just a man, like me and maybe even you. So he's allowed to have "off nights" and to make mistakes and tonight, again IMO, he sure did.

Saratoga2
02-20-2014, 11:44 PM
Based on what I saw, Dawkins was off from deep and got driven by multiple times. He did not earn more minutes.

Were you whining about Coach K when Duke was up 11, or just when the shooting went cold and the refs kicked in with phantom fouls?

Bad post, buddy.

Andre was rested and he missed a couple of tough 3's but he scored 5. What you said about Andre you could easily say about Rodney in the second half. And, might Matt have provided a defensive spark in the second half. We will never know.

Dr. Tina
02-20-2014, 11:44 PM
I have to say that it takes some of the sting out of it for me when I see them rush the court after winning. I hope that we never rush the court against anyone when we beat them in our house. It should be expected.

...was when he seemed to chastise the Tarholes for rushing the court! He was incredulous! I appreciated that. I also hope we never resort to that, especially with our rival!

flyingdutchdevil
02-20-2014, 11:44 PM
Okay, number one, the reffing was not good. But I agree that isn't why Duke lost. Refs didn't lose that 12-point lead for us all by themselves.

Number two, I would hesitate to say K got outcoached by Roy because I'm not enough of an expert. BUT Roy coached a good game, and at the very least, I would question K's substitution decisions. I would have liked to see more of Andre, or wait make that any of Andre, in the second half. Sulaimon throwing up bad jumpers way early in the shot clock, Thornton with no offense at all, Hood saddled with major foul trouble, everyone looking really gassed, why not give Andre a shot? His defense isn't always perfect but since the entire team didn't play defense the second half, what difference would it have made?

Number three, Jabari settling for jumpers, poor shot selection and insane D by UNC--yes, yes and yes.

Can't help wishing that we had gotten to play this game last week, but today they beat us--and we let them. Ugh.

Roy played a helluva game for his players. Coach K - who is the best motivator in the game - couldn't get it down in the 2nd half. UNC was hungrier than us. I give the coaching staff the credit for that, just like I put a lot of the lack of hunger on Coach K.

This is something to chew on - Jabari has been 4-20 on 3pt in his last 9 games. On mid-range jump shots? I'd be surprised if that number is any higher. What is going on with his shot? Jabari is by far the most talented player and our most important player. But his shooting - and shot selection - are incredibly suspect right now.

NSDukeFan
02-20-2014, 11:45 PM
I have been frustrated with K's lineup choices all year. We got tired tonight. That's what happens when you play this many games in a week and don't rest your starters.
Or, this is what happens when the other team does a good job disturbing your perimeter passing and you don't make shots and don't get some calls on drives.


No excuse for Dre sitting the second half unless he was hurt.

K seems intent on not trying anything that doesn't fit his typical style. But that doesn't work any more.

In K's defense, he has had some success coaching basketball at this level. He also did manage to change the defensive style of the team at least a couple of times this year, tried using line changes at one point, has gone to a deeper bench than he normally would, gone to a lot more handoffs on the perimeter on offense, embraced the 3-point shot as he noticed that it is a big weapon, given Parker and Hood lots of freedom to take advantage of their various skills in lots of ways.

I also wouldn't say that after a road loss where Duke was favored by 2 points against their rival in a season where Duke is ranked #5 in the country that coach K's style (or variations in style) don't work anymore.

Or, maybe one game does change everything and has exposed some fatal flaws that have demonstrated a ceiling that Duke will be unable to surmount in the NCAA tournament, just like after the Clemson and Notre Dame games. I don't think so, and expect these 18-22 year olds will not be exhausted and still have the energy to play a great game against Syracuse on Saturday.

_Gary
02-20-2014, 11:46 PM
Coach K, in the post-game presser, has mentioned quite a bit about not having "life" and not having "it" tonight. I firmly believe that was because we were gassed and some additional bench play in the 2nd half might have given us the "life" we needed to get over the hump. Just my two cents.

Kjeffrey
02-20-2014, 11:46 PM
Selfish - Jabari barely touched the ball. Hood was jacking up ill advised shots the entire second half.

I completely agree with this. While Hood is a great offensive player I do think he could look for his teammates more often. Rasheed and Quinn get yanked for taking shots similar to those that Rodney takes. I am not sure why he seems to have more latitude than them.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-20-2014, 11:46 PM
- Carolina simply doesn't get called for fouls near the rim as I said in a previous thread...

Duke gets called for those fouls for the same reason that they get beat too much to the rim. They get caught out of position, can't/don't recover, and havr to make up with waving their arms around.

flyingdutchdevil
02-20-2014, 11:49 PM
Or, this is what happens when the other team does a good job disturbing your perimeter passing and you don't make shots and don't get some calls on drives.


In K's defense, he has had some success coaching basketball at this level. He also did manage to change the defensive style of the team at least a couple of times this year, tried using line changes at one point, has gone to a deeper bench than he normally would, gone to a lot more handoffs on the perimeter on offense, embraced the 3-point shot as he noticed that it is a big weapon, given Parker and Hood lots of freedom to take advantage of their various skills in lots of ways.

I also wouldn't say that after a road loss where Duke was favored by 2 points against their rival in a season where Duke is ranked #5 in the country that coach K's style (or variations in style) don't work anymore.

Or, maybe one game does change everything and has exposed some fatal flaws that have demonstrated a ceiling that Duke will be unable to surmount in the NCAA tournament, just like after the Clemson and Notre Dame games. I don't think so, and expect these 18-22 year olds will not be exhausted and still have the energy to play a great game against Syracuse on Saturday.

Very good post. I don't think this game has any bearing on how we will do in the NCAA tournament. But, I disagree with you about Coach K. Not his greatest game. Actually, I think Coach K really failed to motivate his players in the 2nd half.

I hope Jabari, Sulaimon, Hood, and Amile are pissed off. I hope Cook and MP3 continue to play well. I hope Coach K kicks their collective asses and promises to do better breaking down the other team. And I think this will happen on Saturday.

Trey21
02-20-2014, 11:50 PM
First post on DBR, a shame it has to be under these circumstances.

I think K did get out-coached by Roy tonight. Jabari and Hood looked gassed and that may or may not have affected their aggressiveness.

Marshall and Quinn played well, about the only positives I take away. Quinn drove it well and if Marshall continues to play like he did tonight, I like our future.

Sulaimon had a pretty forgettable night. Hit a couple nice drives, but got stripped a lot. Led to some fast breaks.

Jefferson was out bulked.

Andre and Matt should have been given some run. Andre for offense and Matt for D. Plus Matt could have driven it inside giving UNC some foul trouble. Andre was a bit cold starting out, but I'd still put him in if our team couldn't buy a basket for a good 7-10 mins.

I expect a strong game against SU and I'm not worried about the next game versus the Heel's. I think we'll be ready.

On a side note at least my school beat Carolina in the whine and cheese dome. Currently a senior at Belmont.

PS: Rushing the court was really kinda sad. I mean it is a rivalry game. Come on...

ChicagoCrazy84
02-20-2014, 11:50 PM
Just heard Coach K in his postgame on ESPN and he talked mostly about not having any life, not having "it" in the 2nd half.

What is frustrating is why he didnt try to find "it" with someone other than Hood who was jacking up 3's, Parker who was invisible. It's possible that Jones could've come in and provided a spark or Hairston even. I don't know I was just annoyed that we couldn't find anyone to step up but we kept coming with the same lineup and look.

Duke79UNLV77
02-20-2014, 11:50 PM
I may have read the numbers wrong but wasn't UNC also in foul trouble? I mean, it wasn't just our guys that were in foul trouble.

It wasn't the refs.

There were 9 more fouls on us. Which is actually better than then minus ten differential in the Cuse game. Of course, we also played great in the Cuse game, but played very poorly in the second half tonight. So, yes, we lost the game by missing shots, but I do think some home cooking officiating played a role. We made a lot of aggressive drives that drew contact but no fouls.

Billy Dat
02-20-2014, 11:51 PM
Maybe we should just forget all the bad stuff and celebrate Marshall's impactful 16 minutes!

Here's a question, would we have been better off if Jabari had been correctly called for his second foul instead of the foul being given to Rodney. Hood was playing lights out and when he quickly picked up #2, he was never the same. Then again, Jabari had a big first hald, feasting on Quinn's deft passes, so maybe it was a wash.

Tyler didn't stand out to me tonight, I'd have rather seen us go for more offense with Andre, but the offense was pretty clogged all night save for that second ten minutes when Cook got us going.

How about the drama of Roy forcefully removing his watch? What was he going to do with it?

Chicago 1995
02-20-2014, 11:51 PM
I am sick. And TIRED. Of people ignoring reality and giving credit where none is due. Duke lost this game for two reasons:
1. Duke had open perimeter looks against the zone, JUST LIKE AGAINST SYRACUSE, but 42% shooters suddenly couldn't hit a barn.
2. Every foul call went against us - including a 10 minute stretch from the end of the first half to the 2nd, and then after a few unc fouls in row from the 14-10 minute mark, thereafter.

You won't hear about either of these things. But you should FREAKING REMEMBER THEM. Duke will win against Cuse by a good margin. They'll beat UNC at home by double digits. It won't be learning. It'll be regression to the mean, and not having the most biased officiating possible in the freaking world.

So remember that, don't you guys EVEN DARE GIVE CREDIT TO THEM for getting the most favorable circumstances possible to play a basketball game. They deserve absolutely NONE OF IT.

Here's the thing. Not all shots are the same. Against 'Cuse, we were running this thing called an offense and we were getting good shots in the rhythm of our offense. Tonight, we dribbled a lot in the second half, never had anything in the paint, and took a bunch of bad shots. That's why we didn't shoot so well.

You are right about not giving Carolina credit. They weren't very good tonight. They would have been beaten soundly by a lot of teams tonight. And they beat us. Think about that.

Frankly, you could see it coming from a mile a way. The offensive drought and the squandered chances to put a team away is how we lost to, well, everyone we've lost to other than Syracuse. Same damned boring story. Not terribly fun to watch.

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:52 PM
Coach K failed on two fronts in the second half: 1) he didn't motivate his team enough. I felt as though Jabari and Hood - our two offensive threats - weren't that threatening in the 2nd half. 2) We settled for a lot of poor shots. Now, that may be on the players - and it is partially - but the coaching staff should have had a better plan to counter the D.

I give huge credit to RoyWill for this win. He somehow got his players motivated when THEY WERE DOWN 12 POINTS. His D schemes were effective. His team pounding the ball in and going for O rebounds worked. It was a good plan. Coach K got out-coached. I think that's a lot more valid than DBR's favorite "the refs blew it for us" excuse.

First off, I disagree on the motivation point. If these guys cannot get up for Unc on their own, there is something wrong with them. This game is why they come to Duke. And it's why the Unc guys go there.

Secondly, I do not disagree that we should have changed some tactics on offense. But we got decent penetration (thank you, Quinn) but we didnt knock down shots. I dont think Andre would ahve brought much with Unc game-planning to push him off the 3-line. Unc also over-played the passing lanes. Driving and having our guys roll to the rim was the right plan. We just have not done enough of that this season. Outside our comfort zone.

And what can you say about some of those phantom fouls? Marshall had at least two. Amile as well. Our bigs couldnt breathe.

My biggest complaint is we boxed out really poorly. My second biggest complaint is we missed open shots. Well, players miss open shots. Reversion to the mean Saturday?

LBF
02-20-2014, 11:52 PM
Coach K, in the post-game presser, has mentioned quite a bit about not having "life" and not having "it" tonight. I firmly believe that was because we were gassed and some additional bench play in the 2nd half might have given us the "life" we needed to get over the hump. Just my two cents.

Yea, I just heard that as well. Almost as if he didn't recognize that the guys were gassed. I don't think we were lacking life. We were lacking oxygen.

CDu
02-20-2014, 11:52 PM
5-22 from 3, 7-12 from the line, 5 assists to 12 turnovers, outrebounded by 13. When you put up numbers like these, you deserve to lose.

Sometimes you eat the bear, and sometimes it eats you. It just wasn't a good night for our guys. Missed shots, disorganized offensively, couldn't rebound. A good recipe for a loss.

flyingdutchdevil
02-20-2014, 11:53 PM
Maybe we should just forget all the bad stuff and celebrate Marshall's impactful 16 minutes!

Here's a question, would we have been better off if Jabari had been correctly called for his second foul instead of the foul being given to Rodney. Hood was playing lights out and when he quickly picked up #2, he was never the same. Then again, Jabari had a big first hald, feasting on Quinn's deft passes, so maybe it was a wash.

Tyler didn't stand out to me tonight, I'd have rather seen us go for more offense with Andre, but the offense was pretty clogged all night save for that second ten minutes when Cook got us going.

How about the drama of Roy forcefully removing his watch? What was he going to do with it?

I love your optimism.

NSDukeFan
02-20-2014, 11:53 PM
Agreed, but soft defense due to foul trouble helped UNC get back into it. I thought the first half's defense was pretty darn good. They really shut down Paige.

They let Paige get going in the 2nd half, though...

And WTF. LESLIE MCDONALD????

I completely agree with your last paragraph.

Kfanarmy
02-20-2014, 11:53 PM
Duke gets called for those fouls for the same reason that they get beat too much to the rim. They get caught out of position, can't/don't recover, and havr to make up with waving their arms around. I didn't have a problem with fouls called against Duke for the most part...except for the one call that was replayed over and over. I think however Carolina is committing a lot of uncalled fouls on the interior. Duke simply has not adjusted when the officiating allows body contact. As I said, a top 5 team should not see that kind of FT attempt disparity, you have to adjust offensively and defensively to take advantage or at least stay on par with the opponent.

Chicago 1995
02-20-2014, 11:53 PM
Please explain how Roy outcoached Coach K. I'd like to hear specifics.

Roy obviously saw how we struggled with the zone against Maryland. He rolled out both a 1-2-2 and a 1-3-1 to help turn our well oiled offensive machine into a nightmare factory of bad shots and turnovers. What did we do? The same stuff that didn't work at all and almost cost us the Maryland game.

FerryFor50
02-20-2014, 11:54 PM
Maybe we should just forget all the bad stuff and celebrate Marshall's impactful 16 minutes!

Here's a question, would we have been better off if Jabari had been correctly called for his second foul instead of the foul being given to Rodney. Hood was playing lights out and when he quickly picked up #2, he was never the same. Then again, Jabari had a big first hald, feasting on Quinn's deft passes, so maybe it was a wash.

Tyler didn't stand out to me tonight, I'd have rather seen us go for more offense with Andre, but the offense was pretty clogged all night save for that second ten minutes when Cook got us going.

How about the drama of Roy forcefully removing his watch? What was he going to do with it?

MP3 was indeed awesome. Great energy. Great rebounding. Aggressive at the rim.

Hope to see more of that Saturday!

flyingdutchdevil
02-20-2014, 11:55 PM
Hey, why not start Plumlee Saturday? That might stir things up a bit...

Yeah....no.....

LBF
02-20-2014, 11:55 PM
Hey, why not start Plumlee Saturday? That might stir things up a bit...

I bet he will

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:56 PM
Yup. We had 59 minutes from our bench. UNC played theirs just 49. I don't think "willingness to play one's bench" is a strong argument here.

Thank you. I am sure posters wont include Cook in that figure because he previously started.

59/200= 29.5%

KandG
02-20-2014, 11:56 PM
Rodney continued his trend of failing to box out, and it cost us a few times today. He didn't grab a single rebound.

This has been an issue all season, partly because Rodney is really more of a wing player, and doesn't do well playing against bigs. Jabari's adjusted his game to be able to play inside, but Hood struggles more.

That said, Jabari on the perimeter on a switch is not good - his defensive fundamentals are really suspect. It's painful to watch, especially when he's tired or loses focus. I constantly dread opponents running high pick and rolls where Parker is switched onto a wing.

I'm on the side of folks that say officiating didn't have a huge impact. Yes, there were some very bad calls, but good teams play through those. The team just wilted the last 10 minutes and didn't play like a good team.

Billy Dat
02-20-2014, 11:56 PM
I love your optimism.

I am safely tucked away from the baby blue up here in NY (save for some local fans) and don't have to deal with the bs my southern brothers and sisters will be enduring tomorrow and until the next match-up.

kAzE
02-20-2014, 11:57 PM
Good lord, so many negative posts in this thread . . .

I thought they outplayed us, plain and simple. I don't understand why they don't deserve credit for this one. They played great D, and were much more aggressive on offense than we were. If they hadn't missed about 20 free throws, it wouldn't have even been close.

Our execution in the 2nd half was very poor, reminiscent of our earlier losses at ND and at Clemson. A lot of hero ball, and passing along the outside of a zone and not attacking. One good example that I can recall, you heard the announcers talking about how to attack the 1-3-1: hit the baselines, and immediately after that was said, Hood had Jabari WIDE OPEN on the baseline for a dunk, and decided to step back shoot a three from the left corner. We had open threes, but when they weren't going down, prevailing wisdom is you gotta get the ball inside.

Our players looked tired in the second half, and when you're tired, your jumper is going to suffer. I also believe this fatigue lead to us getting just brutalized on the boards. They outrebounded us 43-30 . . . you won't win many basketball games getting beaten that badly on the glass. I really hope we can somehow get our legs back for the Syracuse game, we're going to need every bit of the shooting touch that we seemed to have lost over these past 3 games.

That said, we played well in the first half. The defense was outstanding on Paige and we were efficient on offense outside of some early turnovers. Another couple of positives from this one were that MP3 has really stepped it up on defense. I loved his game in this one. Cook also played great. Kedsy, I'll admit that he's the better point guard for our offense. I had almost forgotten what he can do when he's playing confidently, but the good Cook was back for this game.

However, this has become something of a theme for our road losses, collapsing mentally in the 2nd half and reverting to excessive fouling and bad offensive execution. We seem to have a lot of trouble dealing with road environments when the calls aren't going our way, and it seems to lead to more fouls and more stagnant offense. We weren't mentally prepared for the Dean Dome in this game, and it showed down the stretch. Disappointing loss, for sure, but I think one that we can come back from and finish strong. We have 3 home games left on the schedule and just 1 road tilt at WF. If we can get through these last 4 games without another loss, we should grab the #3 seed for the conference tournament and have a good chance to grab the title and a #2 or even #1 seed if things go our way. Go Duke!!

CDu
02-20-2014, 11:57 PM
Yeah....no.....

Well, he DID outplay his partner at center tonight. And had one of his best games ever. Not saying he shouls start permanently, but I do think his performance is worth reward.

FerryFor50
02-20-2014, 11:57 PM
I didn't have a problem with fouls called against Duke for the most part...except for the one call that was replayed over and over. I think however Carolina is committing a lot of uncalled fouls on the interior. Duke simply has not adjusted when the officiating allows body contact. As I said, a top 5 team should not see that kind of FT attempt disparity, you have to adjust offensively and defensively to take advantage or at least stay on par with the opponent.

So you don't think the 4th on Jabari on an offensive foul was a bad call? ;)

I think most here aren't arguing that Duke didn't deserve most of their fouls. I think most got sick of seeing drives, post ups and shots at the rim ending up with a lot of contact and no fouls. That's probably the biggest gripe (at least for me). A foul is a foul on both ends of the court.

mapleleafdevil
02-20-2014, 11:58 PM
This is something to chew on - Jabari has been 4-20 on 3pt in his last 9 games. On mid-range jump shots? I'd be surprised if that number is any higher. What is going on with his shot? Jabari is by far the most talented player and our most important player. But his shooting - and shot selection - are incredibly suspect right now.

Jabari is a volume shooter (not in a negative way). He needs the ball and needs to be able to shoot out of his slumps. 20 3's for him in the lat 9 games is not enough. They need to get the ball to him, and let him go to work. By not shooting the three enough (presumably because he has been coached not to), other teams know he is just going to drive and collapse on him. I'll bet dollars to donuts his 3 point %age was much better when he was shooting more than 1 per half.

He is getting frozen out, and having a tough time getting his rhythm. He should take whatever the D gives him. If it is the 3, go for it. That will open up the rest of his game, and the floor for the rest of the team.

flyingdutchdevil
02-20-2014, 11:59 PM
First off, I disagree on the motivation point. If these guys cannot get up for Unc on their own, there is something wrong with them. This game is why they come to Duke. And it's why the Unc guys go there.

Secondly, I do not disagree that we should have changed some tactics on offense. But we got decent penetration (thank you, Quinn) but we didnt knock down shots. I dont think Andre would ahve brought much with Unc game-planning to push him off the 3-line. Unc also over-played the passing lanes. Driving and having our guys roll to the rim was the right plan. We just have not done enough of that this season. Outside our comfort zone.

And what can you say about some of those phantom fouls? Marshall had at least two. Amile as well. Our bigs couldnt breathe.

My biggest complaint is we boxed out really poorly. My second biggest complaint is we missed open shots. Well, players miss open shots. Reversion to the mean Saturday?

Really? I'd like to think Coach K, Duke University, and our tradition would be reasons 1, 2, and 3. Duke/UNC cannot make you immortal. Winning a natty will. Look at Austin Rivers - a very polarizing figure at Duke.

UNC, down 12, didn't let down. Duke settled. What explains that? If it's great execution by the players, I give it to the coach. If it's increased motivation, I give it to the coach. I hate to say it, but RoyWill played an excellent game. We are more talented, more experienced, and have the better resume. We also have the better coach, but sometimes Coach K gets outplayed. If doesn't happen often, but it happens.

superdave
02-20-2014, 11:59 PM
Wait, are we basing PT off of guys getting blown by because that would mean nobody earned minutes tonight. TT might be a better defender but when UNC has 4 other guys blowing by their defenders, what is a 5th especially when it at least adds a bit of O.

Tyler Thornton is shooting 50% from 3 this season.

Andre Dawkins is shooting 47%.

Maybe K was playing the percentages?

PSurprise
02-21-2014, 12:00 AM
For the whole year, I think the fouls called against Duke on the defensive end have been okay...it's on offense where we end up getting the short stick. I'm not sure why this is, but it's quite frustrating

sporthenry
02-21-2014, 12:00 AM
Tyler Thornton is shooting 50% from 3 this season.

Andre Dawkins is shooting 47%.

Maybe K was playing the percentages?

My post was a bit in jest, but Shirley, you can't be serious.

jipops
02-21-2014, 12:00 AM
I really don't think any of this is really as bad as it seems. We've been off the past few games offensively and we still are but we'll be ok. I didn't feel good about this game coming in as I expressed in the pre-game but I still feel good about Saturday. The Heels have been playing great D and they were due for a win in this rivalry.

This stings right now, but beat Cuse Saturday and win out the rest of the schedule including a beat down on 3/8 and all will be right with the universe again.

Chicago 1995
02-21-2014, 12:01 AM
Dawkins was 0-3 from 3. Unc game-planned for him. He is unlikely to score much off the dribble, which is the appropriate response to
Unc over-playing the passing lanes. He was not going to have a big game.

It would have been questionable coaching to leave him in and play 4 on 5.

Or do you have something more useful to add that refutes what I just said?

As opposed to having Tyler in and playing four on five?

I get that Tyler's got a role, and he plays that role well, but when we become what we were offensively the second half vs. UMD and the second half tonight, Tyler's a real problem because he's such a non-threat offensively that it makes it that much harder for us to score. Andre changes the shape of the zone (or the way the man D is run) because you have to account for him in ways you don't for Tyler. The threat Andre presents creates space that Tyler wouldn't. Might have helped when we couldn't do, well, anything other than dribble a lot, make lateral passes away from the basket and take contested jumpers.

DukeDiva
02-21-2014, 12:01 AM
And the board is in meltdown mode...Our offense has been struggling the last few games in the second half. Tonight it bit us in the rear. We did have some good looks, just didn't get the rolls. The high whistle count really disrupted the flow of the game as well. Came down to who could make shots, and unfortunately that was not Duke.

Time to gear up for Cuse and hope some of those shots fall. I hope we play angry. It's gonna take a sense of urgency to give Cuse a good old fashion Cameron beat down.

superdave
02-21-2014, 12:03 AM
Except that he did drive successfully twice tonight, producing 5 points. Agree they were on him like flypaper at the three point line but it still might have been worth a try.

I recall one drive by Andre being on the secondary break. I forget the specifics of the second. Neither fit into the half-court offense though. What we needed was more dribble drive.

If anything I would like for Amile to have played better. If he could have stayed out of foul trouble and guarded better, he's great at sitting on the baseline, catching dumpoff passes and scoring. That does exactly the same thing to the defense as Andre pulling defenders out deep. Any time you can displace defenders, you are doing well.

Chicago 1995
02-21-2014, 12:03 AM
Yea, I just heard that as well. Almost as if he didn't recognize that the guys were gassed. I don't think we were lacking life. We were lacking oxygen.

I also disagree that we were lacking "life" and lacking "it." Unless we were lacking those same things Saturday night in the second half vs. Maryland. There's a problem in our approach that is sucking the vitality from our offense.

flyingdutchdevil
02-21-2014, 12:04 AM
And the board is in meltdown mode...Our offense has been struggling the last few games in the second half. Tonight it bit us in the rear. We did have some good looks, just didn't get the rolls. The high whistle count really disrupted the flow of the game as well. Came down to who could make shots, and unfortunately that was not Duke.

Time to gear up for Cuse and hope some of those shots fall. I hope we play angry. It's gonna take a sense of urgency to give Cuse a good old fashion Cameron beat down.

The board is not in meltdown mode. Few are suggesting that this game reflects our status as a really good tourney team. We just got beaten by our main rivals - an underdog and unranked rival nonetheless - and we are venting. This is normal for a sports fan.

devilpadre
02-21-2014, 12:05 AM
This team will rebound from this loss. We were gassed. It's tough to score when you are exhausted. Coach K wanted to see if our core guys could get through this one. I think he was concerned about bringing in Dre after seeing him almost turn the ball over in the face of pressure. Refs didn't pick the winner. All this scorched earth on the board is just ludicrous.

Next up Cuse. We will be hungry but still tired.
I agree. When fatigue sets in, jump shots don't fall. Jabari had a bad night and the foul trouble hurt any chance of playing loose. Duke will win the rematch.

Billy Dat
02-21-2014, 12:07 AM
With everyone focused on our big rival on Saturday, this was a classic trap game.

...kidding, people, kidding....

MCFinARL
02-21-2014, 12:07 AM
Roy played a helluva game for his players. Coach K - who is the best motivator in the game - couldn't get it down in the 2nd half. UNC was hungrier than us. I give the coaching staff the credit for that, just like I put a lot of the lack of hunger on Coach K.

This is something to chew on - Jabari has been 4-20 on 3pt in his last 9 games. On mid-range jump shots? I'd be surprised if that number is any higher. What is going on with his shot? Jabari is by far the most talented player and our most important player. But his shooting - and shot selection - are incredibly suspect right now.

Recent performance from the free throw line also suggests a shooting problem (obviously, no connection to shot selection). I'd rather see Jabari scoring in the post, but part of what makes him such a threat is his ability to do both. I'm thinking it's pretty hard to be Jabari Parker--lots of expectations, lots to learn. And that probably doesn't help. But it might be time to take a couple of sessions in a quiet gym shooting.

And, for that matter, it might be time for the whole team to take a couple of sessions practicing getting the ball to Jabari inside.

superdave
02-21-2014, 12:09 AM
My post was a bit in jest, but Shirley, you can't be serious.

I am serious. And dont call me Shirley.

I've always felt that you give Andre the heat-check. Is he on or off? Adjust his minutes accordingly. It's basically 9 minutes if off and 18 minutes if on.

He was off. So enter Tyler who we know is Coach K's security blanket, his coach on the floor. Remember how Tyler tipped the pass out of the lane vs Maryland to win the game? Yep. That's why he starts.

Add in 50% shooting from 3, and Tyler made sense tonight. But Unc took away the 3-ball pretty well.

I could be convinced that Duke should have played a bigger lineup more. Force Meeks to beat them, slow Unc down, foul out Johnson/McAdoo. Maybe it would have worked.

gofurman
02-21-2014, 12:09 AM
Everything about this game was bad. Refs were atrocious. Duke's defense never showed up. And the offense didn't do anything in the 2nd half.

Not a ton to take away from this game. Hopefully a motivating factor for Duke going forward but some of those flaws that seemingly disappeared over the past few months have come back up. And the team looks even more fatigued.

Of course they look fatigued. They just played game three of six days ! Only difference in UNC was UNC had home ct crowd to feed off of plus one more day to rest for this one. Fatigue shouldn't worry us. It was o be expected. As it will vs Syracuse. It's a damn crappy schedule the way this played out

bedeviled
02-21-2014, 12:12 AM
I thought they outplayed us, plain and simple. I don't understand why they don't deserve credit for this oneAgreed. We just didn't have enough composure to determine the game today. That's particularly troublesome against UNC whose offense is predicated on their defense pressuring the opposing team into turnovers and bad decisions. UNC played well and was able to accomplish that tonight. While we got decent looks that we usually hit, there was relentless pressure on our offense throughout the game....and that took us off our game enough for the loss.

I mistakenly hoped that UNC didn't have enough time to incorporate the 1-3-1, following our Maryland game (and still hope that Syracuse won't bother with it). It was an interesting situation as Tyler was the one to solve Maryland's 1-3-1, but Cook was playing fantastic tonight. Cook had to be substituted out, and Tyler inserted to calm us down despite Tyler not playing in top form. But, if I remember correctly, Hood ignored this move and tried to force play himself. And, I don't remember what happened after that...it's all a blur of light blue hands in the passing lanes.

I didn't think our defense was any worse than usual tonight. UNC got some good looks from running and rebounds, which is their game and was to be expected (and feed their crowd, which pumps them up in return).

Kudos to UNC for playing hard and dictating the game.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
02-21-2014, 12:12 AM
If anything I would like for Amile to have played better. If he could have stayed out of foul trouble and guarded better, he's great at sitting on the baseline, catching dumpoff passes and scoring. That does exactly the same thing to the defense as Andre pulling defenders out deep. Any time you can displace defenders, you are doing well.

It was definitely a missing piece that was in place last game. Perhaps he simply lacked the bulk to bang underneath, but I am with you, I would have liked to see him try and fail once or twice.

I don't think this game exposed us, I don't think we got out-coached (come on), I don't think the refs were out to get us. I think we played excellent in the first half. I think we started missing shots and went into a panic/desperation mode when UNC started converting underneath, the crowd got loud, and players got tense.

I like our chances against Syracuse at Cameron in 43 hours.

Next play (those saying "I don't want to hear next play" do not understand the philosophy)

Utley
02-21-2014, 12:13 AM
Long season - can't read anything long term into this game but hard to be objective after a loss to UNC.

While I don't have the data to support it - I continue to believe we play a way more effective 40 minutes of ball with the line shifts/deep bench approach then we do when we play less. I think every loss has featured a relatively shorter rotation.

I also think we are way better when we look down low first and outside second. Did that in the first half and got away from it some in the second.

tendev
02-21-2014, 12:14 AM
We had an extraordinary opportunity to win this game on their floor and did not get it done because we are a team that is good but not great. When you play on the road against your rival you need to be better on offense, defense and the boards. Occams razor. It ain't the refs. It ain't the coaching. Its being on the road against a top 20 team. And we ain't going to the final four. The expectations on this board ate out of whack with reality. It would have been a very nice win against a Unc team that is very beatable. But we are very beatable too.

dyedwab
02-21-2014, 12:15 AM
UNC, down 12, didn't let down. Duke settled. What explains that? ...

This has been a problem the entire season - we led against Clemson and ND mid way through the 2nd half. We were punch for punch with Kansas till the end. We were punch for punch with AZ. We fell apart, but did not lose, agains UVA, UVM, and even in ECU....

...The inability for the entire team to play a complete, composed 40-minute game is our fatal flaw - strategy and tactics notwithstanding.

Tonight, we led by 12, and then lost all composure...and that's not surprising, given our history this season....

Billy Dat
02-21-2014, 12:17 AM
We had an extraordinary opportunity to win this game on their floor and did not get it done because we are a team that is good but not great. When you play on the road against your rival you need to be better on offense, defense and the boards. Occams razor. It ain't the refs. It ain't the coaching. Its being on the road against a top 20 team. And we ain't going to the final four. The expectations on this board ate out of whack with reality. It would have been a very nice win against a Unc team that is very beatable. But we are very beatable too.

I think this is accurate with the huge caveat that there are no great teams this year so the Final Four is very much in play.

Furniture
02-21-2014, 12:18 AM
- Carolina simply doesn't get called for fouls near the rim as I said in a previous thread...I'm not sure why because I thought Duke was fouled on several drives...QC was tripped on that last "held ball" I thought, and that is just one example. I've watched several of their games and am just flummoxed as to why they aren't getting called for a lot of bumps and trips on the interior, but Duke has not adjusted that well to the way the games are being called it seems.
.

I think the conversation should be about why in a lot of games Duke is getting into foul trouble before the other team? It never used to be like that!

jipops
02-21-2014, 12:21 AM
I agree. When fatigue sets in, jump shots don't fall. Jabari had a bad night and the foul trouble hurt any chance of playing loose. Duke will win the rematch.

But I disagree fatigue was really to blame. Perimeter shots by and large were not falling all night. I think this was more a combination of the heels' excellent defense and some kind of funk that's been going on the last few games.

The heels are also actually a really good team.

I too think we'll take them out in the re-match.

moonpie23
02-21-2014, 12:21 AM
disappointing….. :(…….we really lost focus in the 2nd half…

i too wonder about who played and who didn't… but i'm not a HOF coach…

gofurman
02-21-2014, 12:21 AM
All the analysis I read here . All the numbers, decimal points, how a ranked team wins 75% of the time, how we are the better team, match up to match up we are better, etc. etc. etc.

Now I'm ready to hear the rest.

Please save the "next plays" and "next game" comments. We are almost in March.

I am pissed.

Completely agree! I HATE reading how we will win and matchups are so good. Seems to jinx us. I NEVER feel good going to UNCheat. Never. Ok, maybe w Elton Brand. Lol.

jipops
02-21-2014, 12:22 AM
I think the conversation should be about why in a lot of games Duke is getting into foul trouble before the other team? It never used to be like that!

Well I think teams that tend to have problems defensively tend to have this problem as well.

brumby041
02-21-2014, 12:24 AM
Great energy and effort from Marshall tonight!

Please keep doing that!

jipops
02-21-2014, 12:26 AM
But we are very beatable too.

As opposed to...?

Saratoga2
02-21-2014, 12:29 AM
Tyler started at PG tonight and the offense was flat. It took Quinn to get things started. I am not a fan of using both Tyler and Quinn in the game together unless we are up at the end and need foul shooters and ball handlers. We seemed to be better off when we used Matt and Andre along with Rasheed to keep pressure on the opposing offense while getting additional scoring. Tyler has his moments, but is not that much of a factor in my opinion.

Josh has not been impressive (4 fouls in 5 minutes, 0 pts, 0 rebounds) so he would be my third choice behind an under-appreciated Marshall and even Semi. Marshall got a couple of tough fouls tonight or else I thought he could have given us even more minutes. We have been swooning in the second half often times this year. When we went to heavy substitutions, things got better.

I doubt if we can have success against Syracuse and UNC or a number of teams we might see in the tournament without expanding our substitution approach to avoid what appears to be exhaustion in the second half of games.

jipops
02-21-2014, 12:30 AM
You would have a hard time convincing me that Paige is not one of the best guards in the ACC. I don't care what stats are out there. The Heels are hot primarily because of him. He kicked our butts in the 2nd half.

gofurman
02-21-2014, 12:30 AM
Thing is, they killed Michigan's 1-3-1 and Belein is famous for it.

Tell you what though; I can see them getting beat by double-digits at the weekend, just based on fatigue. Parker and Hood apparently can't play through it and K clearly doesn't trust Dawkins/Jones enough to give them requisite rest.

Not so sure. UNFORTUNATELY Hood has been forced out of md and UNC games some due to foul trouble - 4 fouls in both. So he hasn't been killed w minutes... MD 22 minutes, GT 34 minutes, tonight 30 minutes. So he should have some left in tank. That's less than 30 minutes per game this week. Though its still 86 minutes total,this week which is like two full games plus OT. Unfortunate as that it is- bc w Hood in the first half (w.out foul trouble forcing him out) maybe we gt enough of a lead tonight to win. Oh well. Hope we can eek out Saturday that would make it all better

nmduke2001
02-21-2014, 12:31 AM
The substitution patterns drive me nuts. If our guys were gassed, last game was part of the problem. Up 18 with 2 and half minutes against GT, Jabari checked BACK INTO THE GAME. Given the schedule this week, how does that make sense?

Tonight, we can't by a basket and Dre sits on the bench. Dre is a fifth year senior that has hit huge shots for Duke. Don't tell me you can't trust him in a game like this.

LBF
02-21-2014, 12:32 AM
All the trumpets for Rasheed taking over point duties are silent.

gofurman
02-21-2014, 12:33 AM
Tyler started at PG tonight and the offense was flat. It took Quinn to get things started. I am not a fan of using both Tyler and Quinn in the game together unless we are up at the end and need foul shooters and ball handlers. We seemed to be better off when we used Matt and Andre along with Rasheed to keep pressure on the opposing offense while getting additional scoring. Tyler has his moments, but is not that much of a factor in my opinion.

Josh has not been impressive (4 fouls in 5 minutes, 0 pts, 0 rebounds) so he would be my third choice behind an under-appreciated Marshall and even Semi. Marshall got a couple of tough fouls tonight or else I thought he could have given us even more minutes. We have been swooning in the second half often times this year. When we went to heavy substitutions, things got better.

I doubt if we can have success against Syracuse and UNC or a number of teams we might see in the tournament without expanding our substitution approach to avoid what appears to be exhaustion in the second half of games.

Are we forgetting this was a rescheduled game making 3 games in six days? At least UNC could feed off home crowd.

I do agree w the pt on substitution though. K knew we should be tired ( Saturday too !?!) and I am surorised Matt jones and josh Hairston didn't see a few minutes. Just 5 each or so

BigZ
02-21-2014, 12:34 AM
Duke goes as Suliman goes

kAzE
02-21-2014, 12:34 AM
This has been a problem the entire season - we led against Clemson and ND mid way through the 2nd half. We were punch for punch with Kansas till the end. We were punch for punch with AZ. We fell apart, but did not lose, agains UVA, UVM, and even in ECU....

...The inability for the entire team to play a complete, composed 40-minute game is our fatal flaw - strategy and tactics notwithstanding.

Tonight, we led by 12, and then lost all composure...and that's not surprising, given our history this season....

I disagree with that . . . you said it yourself, we've shown the ability to stay in close games and win them as well. We were right there down the wire against KU, Arizona, and Syracuse (a game that we would have won if not for Flopmas). We pulled out some great play down the stretch to beat Virginia and Maryland at home. The only question is, can we actually win these close games away from Cameron? I believe we showed in that Syracuse game that we can. Even though we lost, our guys never lost their cool and continued to execute on offense.

Our guys were exhausted in this one, and I think that's why we fouled so much and why we got destroyed on the glass. The only thing I'll agree on with the negative posters here is that I thought we could have gotten Dawkins a bit more involved in the 2nd half. He played well in his limited minutes in the first, and I thought that going with a change of pace over a struggling Sulaimon might have tipped things our way a bit. Still, Carolina really outplayed us, and had they not struggled so much from the foul line, would have won handily.

gofurman
02-21-2014, 12:36 AM
The substitution patterns drive me nuts. If our guys were gassed, last game was part of the problem. Up 18 with 2 and half minutes against GT, Jabari checked BACK INTO THE GAME. Given the schedule this week, how does that make sense?

Tonight, we can't by a basket and Dre sits on the bench. Dre is a fifth year senior that has hit huge shots for Duke. Don't tell me you can't trust him in a game like this.

Agree, Jabari and hood etc should have played less at GT in second half. Once it was established GT couldn't score w us I too wondered WTH Jabari was out there ... And why the hell he checked BACK IN? No rhyme or reason. Just dumb

MCFinARL
02-21-2014, 12:44 AM
It was definitely a missing piece that was in place last game. Perhaps he simply lacked the bulk to bang underneath, but I am with you, I would have liked to see him try and fail once or twice.

I don't think this game exposed us, I don't think we got out-coached (come on), I don't think the refs were out to get us. I think we played excellent in the first half. I think we started missing shots and went into a panic/desperation mode when UNC started converting underneath, the crowd got loud, and players got tense.

I like our chances against Syracuse at Cameron in 43 hours.

Next play (those saying "I don't want to hear next play" do not understand the philosophy)

I agree that this loss, however demoralizing, may not be a major deal in the long run (or, if it motivates the team to play angrier, it actually might be a major deal in a good way). And I agree, generally, with your observations.

But--if the team goes into panic/desperation mode when they start missing and the other team starts hitting a few, and that continues, isn't that at least partly attributable to coaching? Doesn't the coaching staff bear some responsibility to help the players, as a group, regain their focus and composure? If some continue to struggle, might he not consider at least briefly substituting others? "Outcoached" sounds harsh, and I understand that Coach K is an expert and i am so not. But I don't think it's crazy to suggest that tonight was not his best evening of coaching--everybody has a so-so day once in a while.

azzefkram
02-21-2014, 12:49 AM
A disappointing loss. We went away from attacking the basket in the second half. Some of that is on UNC but most is on us. I think that because we have so many really good shooters we can fall in love with the jump shot a little to easily. Zone tend to exacerbate the issue. Most nights this isn't an issue. Tonight wasn't one of those nights. We had a bit of a cold spell coupled with a healthy dollop of not necessarily bad but ill-advised shots along with a sprinkling of bad shots. That's not a good recipe for success.

I am not surprised we were out-rebounded. We only have 3 effective rebounders (2.5 depending on your opinion of Marshall). Carolina has about 6. It didn't help that Amile had a poor game but Carolina has multiple players who match up well with him.

Nice games from Quinn and Marshall.

kAzE
02-21-2014, 12:51 AM
Tyler started at PG tonight and the offense was flat. It took Quinn to get things started. I am not a fan of using both Tyler and Quinn in the game together unless we are up at the end and need foul shooters and ball handlers. We seemed to be better off when we used Matt and Andre along with Rasheed to keep pressure on the opposing offense while getting additional scoring. Tyler has his moments, but is not that much of a factor in my opinion.

Josh has not been impressive (4 fouls in 5 minutes, 0 pts, 0 rebounds) so he would be my third choice behind an under-appreciated Marshall and even Semi. Marshall got a couple of tough fouls tonight or else I thought he could have given us even more minutes. We have been swooning in the second half often times this year. When we went to heavy substitutions, things got better.

I doubt if we can have success against Syracuse and UNC or a number of teams we might see in the tournament without expanding our substitution approach to avoid what appears to be exhaustion in the second half of games.

I agree with this, Jones could have helped us on defense. You're much lower on Thornton than I am, but we've generally played better when we've gone deeper into our guard rotation. Just 5 minutes from Jones to make Paige work a little bit might have given us a bit of an edge. However, I will note that this was an uncharacteristically bad performance from both of our sophomores, Sulaimon and Jefferson. When those two guys don't play well, it really hurts our team, especially Jefferson, because does many of the things that our other guys aren't capable of doing well. He's really the glue that pulls this whole thing together and when he throws up a clunker like this one (2 points on 1-3, 3 rebounds and 4 fouls), it's tough to win on the road.

gofurman
02-21-2014, 12:57 AM
Remember the Alamo, I mean Clemson... We jacked ill-advised threes, played bad D, got out hustled. And then we got nasty! It shall come again. Syracuse just lost to BC at home! I just hope we can be rested enough to beat Syracuse. Then allia well again. To beat GT. Syracuse and Maryland in a week is a good week. And beating Syracuse would keep us top ten. Honestly UNC is top 25 worthy. Thy beat Pitt. Beat us. UNC is Top 15 if they hit FTs


Just hope we can rest enough for cuse'. After that the games are easier and spaced out w rest

MCFinARL
02-21-2014, 12:57 AM
Agree, Jabari and hood etc should have played less at GT in second half. Once it was established GT couldn't score w us I too wondered WTH Jabari was out there ... And why the hell he checked BACK IN? No rhyme or reason. Just dumb

I'm speculating wildly here, so I will probably just get myself in trouble. But one of the issues with getting recruits as good as Jabari is that the coach may feel a certain commitment to the player as well as to the team. If you read the SI article about Jabari and Coach K, it seems clear Coach K feels an obligation to help Jabari improve his game in every way--which is generally speaking commendable. Part of this may be helping him learn to play lots of minutes several days a week--to adjust to major minutes. Clearly, Coach K would never do anything he thought would be to the detriment of the team. But his general inclinations are 1) to have the best players on the floor; 2) to play a fairly short bench, especially as it gets later in the season. If you start out with these predispositions it's not hard to see how playing Jabari extra minutes even when the game isn't close, so he can get used to playing more minutes in more games, might seem like the right thing to do, even if it looks questionable from where we are sitting.

jipops
02-21-2014, 12:59 AM
I agree with this, Jones could have helped us on defense. You're much lower on Thornton than I am, but we've generally played better when we've gone deeper into our guard rotation. Just 5 minutes from Jones to make Paige work a little bit might have given us a bit of an edge. However, I will note that this was an uncharacteristically bad performance from both of our sophomores, Sulaimon and Jefferson. When those two guys don't play well, it really hurts our team, especially Jefferson, because does many of the things that our other guys aren't capable of doing well. He's really the glue that pulls this whole thing together and when he throws up a clunker like this one (2 points on 1-3, 3 rebounds and 4 fouls), it's tough to win on the road.

This was not a good matchup for Amile to excel in. The paint was way too crowded for him to do much damage. It would have been nice if he could have been more productive on the glass, but the heels just have more bodies to put down there.

I did think Jones would get some time with all the foul trouble. But he wasn't going to help our offense.

CBecker
02-21-2014, 01:07 AM
Such an awful loss. Was so excited in the first half and first part of the second. Heels were throwing everything at them but the guys were playing really well. Marshall's energy was just amazing and he had a fine game. But then it all completely fell apart so quickly. The offense was just abysmal and uninspired, maybe they were fatigued, I don't know but it was ugly. Perhaps the refs sucked, but I felt that UNC deserved to get to the line more, the likes of Hubert and McAdoo were all over the offensive boards when Plumlee was out of the game. Jefferson got pushed around tonight.

It's frustrating to keep losing these games to big name opponents in close games!

azzefkram
02-21-2014, 01:08 AM
Tyler started at PG tonight and the offense was flat. It took Quinn to get things started. I am not a fan of using both Tyler and Quinn in the game together unless we are up at the end and need foul shooters and ball handlers. We seemed to be better off when we used Matt and Andre along with Rasheed to keep pressure on the opposing offense while getting additional scoring. Tyler has his moments, but is not that much of a factor in my opinion.

I agree with the first part but I disagree with the bolded. I have been fairly critical of Tyler but he has had a really good senior season. He is extremely consistent which given the mercurial nature of some of our other players is an asset. Tyler picked a bad night to have his worst game of the season but unlike with other players I am not concerned about it carrying over to Saturday. I expect him to be his usual effective self against Cuse.

Blue KevIL
02-21-2014, 01:20 AM
Can we burn the black jerseys now?

Some jersey stats:

Since the Black uniforms were introduced in 1996-97, Duke is 75-32 (.701) wearing them.

During the same time frame, Duke is 83-30 (.735) wearing Blue (this includes the blue "D" Nike special from last year) and 370-42 (.898) wearing White (this includes the Nike special from last Saturday and the 100-Year Throwbacks from 2004-05).

The best record is in the Grey Nike special from 2012: 1-0 (1.000)

kAzE
02-21-2014, 01:59 AM
This was not a good matchup for Amile to excel in. The paint was way too crowded for him to do much damage. It would have been nice if he could have been more productive on the glass, but the heels just have more bodies to put down there.

I did think Jones would get some time with all the foul trouble. But he wasn't going to help our offense.

I didn't necessarily mean Jones himself would be a big factor, but more as an infusion of energy, while allowing another guy to recharge his batteries. Actually, Jones is pretty good at slashing his way into the paint and getting to the foul line as well. I thought if he could have played something like 3-5 minutes in the 2nd half and spelled Sulaimon or Hood, it might have worked out well. Sulaimon looked gassed out there and his jumper really was off. Same with Hood during that bad 9 minute stretch. A couple of high energy minutes from Jones might have provided some kind of spark, or at least let those starters catch their breath a bit.

Dukehky
02-21-2014, 02:24 AM
Marshall Plumlee was our best player in the second half. We can't win when that is the case.

I got spit on, on the way into the game, and got a beer bottle thrown at me on the way out. If I had one person with me, there would have been a fight. I hate those people. I hate that whole damn town, and I hope they flip cop cars over and McCrory calls in the national guard Kiev style. They were complaining all night about the fouls being called. News flash morons, Duke had 9 more fouls called on them. I hate them so freaking much, we are going to win by 39 in Cameron and I hope our fans storm the court and try to rip patches of McAdoos beard out for trophies. Their team is just so painstakingly average, I just don't understand how we lost.

One delusional fan said that if he was an NBA GM he would take JMM over Parker. I told him he was an imbecile and that he would get fired immediately after he made that pick.

Part of the foul discrepancy was the fact that all we did in the second half was jack up 3's, which I thought were mostly good shots. Jabari was so tentative because of the couple offensive fouls he got, and he made a few bad decisions and the rest of the team decided that they weren't going to give the ball to not only our best player, but our best match-up. Rodney's foul trouble took him completely out of rhythm, because he was on fire in the first half.

Paige scored 10 real points, not garbage time free throws. We win 95/100 times that happens. Just a perfect storm of pretty disappointing from Duke game UNC this win. We gave them this game.

I'm not sure a quick turnaround from this tough loss is going to be helpful in the forget part of the whole deal. We will see the line-changes against Syracuse.

Bob Green
02-21-2014, 05:22 AM
Live by the 3! Die by the 3! It is that simple folks, we didn't shoot good so we lost. I was surprised Dawkins didn't see more action in the 2nd half as he scored five points on a couple of drives during the 1st half. We could have used another scorer on the court during those nine minutes we couldn't buy a basket. Hopefully we play better tomorrow. Next game!

JNort
02-21-2014, 05:58 AM
Well without reading any of the other posts in this thread I just wanna put in my 2 cent.

1. Unc played average defense but we just couldn't hit all the open jumpers.
2. Why was the ball not in Cooks hands more? He was on point as a facilitator tonight and looked like the earl season version of himself.
3. I thought the refs called a decent game. I will never blame the refs unless it's so blatant it can't be ignored.
4. Why did we not see more Dre? What about Mat at the end when we needed a stop on Paige?

dmac2681
02-21-2014, 06:24 AM
I'm not so sure Cook played as well as you all think. Tonight, Cook made a few solid plays however, his last 5 minutes of the game were pretty poor. He didn't take charge of the offense, he turned the ball over, and he took silly shots (which is equal to turning the ball over).

Sixthman
02-21-2014, 06:50 AM
For the whole year, I think the fouls called against Duke on the defensive end have been okay...it's on offense where we end up getting the short stick. I'm not sure why this is, but it's quite frustrating

I agree completely. Part of the foul disparity was our being in poir defensive position on defense, however, I feel we were very aggressive driving the ball and did not get the calls one woukd ordinarily expect an aggressive and athletic team to get This was not new. It has been happening to suilimon and hood all season. Seemed worse in this fiasco.

jv001
02-21-2014, 06:59 AM
Live by the 3! Die by the 3! It is that simple folks, we didn't shoot good so we lost. I was surprised Dawkins didn't see more action in the 2nd half as he scored five points on a couple of drives during the 1st half. We could have used another scorer on the court during those nine minutes we couldn't buy a basket. Hopefully we play better tomorrow. Next game!

I agree about the 3 ball not going in. That's the big part of our offense, but Carolina's defense had a lot to do with that. Jabari seemed to lose focus on defense in the 2nd half. He looked tired. One time he turned his back on defense when the ball/man wasn't 5 feet from him. He's a long way from being an average defender and that's a college defender. GoDuke!

CR9
02-21-2014, 07:03 AM
Marhsall played effectively off the bench and got more minutes than usual. Do you disagree?

Cook came off the bench and had a better game than anyone on the team.

Do those two guys not count? Or do you care to clarify? Or did the guys you wanted to succeed off the bench not succede enough so you make an inaccurate, blanket statement?

How much did Plumlee play when Duke went cold? Is Duke's bench only 2 players deep? Do they only have 7 on scholarship? I've already said Cook and particularly Plums played well which makes him not playing on the second half more ridiculous but when you've got tired players in foul trouble who are getting beat defensively they need to sit and it's not like Duke doesn't have said players.

DukieInBrasil
02-21-2014, 07:27 AM
What a disappointing loss. Mostly because Duke got rattled, went away from what had been working for them to build a 12 point lead and never found someone to step up and make a winning play over the last few minutes.
While there were mos def some fouls called on Duke that were questionable (offensive foul on Jabari driving?!?), i don't think either the fouls called nor the disparity caused Duke to lose, but the fact that the players got rattled by them, lost their focus and played poorly because of it.
This loss can't be pinned on a single player necessarily, but the fact that nobody stepped up during the final 10 minutes was discouraging. I'm in the same boat with a lot of people who don't understand why Dre and Jones or even Hairston for that matter, didn't get any time when UNC was whittling our lead away. Sure, I wouldn't want Josh playing all of those minutes, but 2 minutes could have helped keep somebody else fresh, for example.
Sulaimon had a terrible game, and now that Quinn's ankles seem to be doing better, i'm not sure he is the best answer for PG withe "1st unit". In fact, it seems like the line-change method really kept the team fresh and helped us finish games strong, whereas last night in particular we finished very dead-legged and tired looking. K seems to only want to employ it against "lesser" opponents, but it seems to have had a real and positive impact on this team when it is used.

porkpa
02-21-2014, 07:27 AM
I know I'm going to get beat up because of this post, but here goes anyway. The two guys coaching on Saturday both have the same achilles heel. For whatever reasons they have always been hesitant about using their benches as best they can. This results in players getting tired and those that might not be having a good game playing too much. Boeheim has always been worth than K in this respect, but IMO neither has over the years utilized their players to the best advantage.
I just reread the above post and asked myself the question "Just how stupid am I to be taking two HOF coaches and arguably the two best coaches out there today to task?"
The icing on the cake and where I'll likely take the most heat is that contrary to these two guys Dean Smith almost always used his bench to good advantage and his teams benefitted from his doing so.

daveduke76
02-21-2014, 07:31 AM
With Duke's offense stone cold in the second half, I see no plausible explanation whatsoever for not having Dawkins on the floor. Some obviously questionable coaching decisions.

Coach K seemed to shorten the bench as well. With 4 games in 8 days you would think he would expand the playing time of the bench, not shorten it. I think Roy out coached us

oldnavy
02-21-2014, 07:46 AM
We played poorly for a part of the second half. Otherwise, I thought we played fairly well. In the first half we were scoring in the paint. In fact a graphic showed we had more points in the paint than UNC did (sorry don't remember the exact numbers) which really surprised me. Our defense was better and we were in a position to take the game over.

The second half, we missed shot after shot, and still had the lead for a while, but it finally caught up to us.

Complain all you want about the defense, and it was bad in the latter part of the game, but missing open shots that we normally make is why we lost. We would have survived the 'olay
defense if we could have hit a few shots during that drought.

We even missed a couple of point blank at the basket shots. We make just 1 or 2 of those and the whole game is different, but sometimes that happens...

UNC played a very good game against us. My greatest fears came true, we couldn't make a shot, and Paige took over the game and we had no answer.

I refuse to blame a loss on calls because that is what UNC fans do. I am sure some UNC fans will say that there should have been MORE fouls called on Duke than there were... They did when Hansbrough set the all time record for FT attempts (remember.. he never got a call), so let them own that excuse.... it's defeatist even if true.... it gives you and excuse for losing, which is a bad thing.

However, in general, I believe that this has been my least favorite year for watching basketball in a very long, long time. The way the games are being called is very frustrating to this fan. Whistle after whistle, inconsistencies, phantom calls, no calls on obvious contact, 20 seconds of game play then stoppage for a foul, going to the monitor and spending 5 minutes to review a play... and just an overall sense that the refs are controlling the game instead of the players is wearing on me. In fact, I have stopped watching most games other than Duke or UNC games just because, the game is too ugly. And it cuts both ways... it bothers me even when the poor officiating favors Duke, and it sometimes does.

I may be in the minority, but I liked it a lot better when the refs were not the center piece of the game. I understand in general what the idea was behind the new emphasis on contact (make the game more "pure"), but I think that it has been a major "fail" as far as the aesthetics of the game thus far. If it keeps going this way I probably will lose interest, because I do not watch basketball games to see 50+ FT attempts over a 2.5 hour game. I don't like to see good defense punished, or routine offensive moves to the basket waived off because a defender and the offensive player touched.

I just don't have the patience for it and I'd rather read a good book.

Off the soapbox...

Let's regroup and go get Cuse tomorrow night.

TruBlu
02-21-2014, 07:49 AM
Very disappointed with this loss, but not as devastated as normal after a loss to the cheaters. We have a rematch coming up soon.

As others have pointed out, poor shooting was our downfall.

IMHO, our foul trouble (and lack of using our bench) was part of our problem of not playing defense down the stretch. Duke ended the game with 5 players (4 starters) having 4 fouls. Unc ended the game with 2 players (1 starter) with 4 fouls or more. I guess it's true what they say on IC . . . Roy knows how to teach his players how not to foul.:rolleyes:

Time to pack my car for the drive to Cameron for tomorrows game.

Lar77
02-21-2014, 08:09 AM
Shots just didn't go in, including layups. Fatigue? Fouls? Just one of those things?
Shots not going in affected our defense.
Next game.

duke4life32182
02-21-2014, 08:14 AM
I'm all in on the substitution aspect as a Duke fan. Marshall great energy off the bench, shows he has strong legs. Dawkins, in the time he was in there was actually getting to the rim=fresher legs. I wish he still employed the 5 in, 5 out. That being said, we settled some tonight for a few shots. The long 2's that we are starting to shoot don't look good. I don't see how the 1-3-1 or any zone should give us trouble with the way we shoot. I do know that they weren't bringing a man to the open space of the zone to beat it. Is that on our coaches? Is that on the players? I couldn't tell you. Maybe coach K has his own way of beating it, point aside I have seen it used twice against us now in the last three games and it seems to kill us. I was taught in rec ball at a young age, to beat the zone you have to go inside out. All we do is swing it around the perimeter. When you nail your three's it looks good. When you don't, you go 8 minute stretches where you don't score. I don't know how anyone could say though it was UNC's defense. We just didn't hit our shots. We went against what was working for us. Hood/Parker should have been in the open space receiving the ball and attacking the rim. That is what got us the lead. Oh well, got a quick turn around and another zone. Better hope the three's are going in. That or maybe let Mr. Dawkins get a few extra cracks.

MChambers
02-21-2014, 08:21 AM
One delusional fan said that if he was an NBA GM he would take JMM over Parker. I told him he was an imbecile and that he would get fired immediately after he made that pick.
Maybe that fan works for the Charlotte franchise?

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-21-2014, 08:25 AM
Woke up this morning. Sun still rose. Holes are still holes. And the SI jinx should now be lifted.

mkirsh
02-21-2014, 08:30 AM
A few thoughts after sleeping on the game (or trying to):

First, have to give UNC a lot of credit. That was probably the best perimeter defense I have ever seen from a Roy Williams team. Typically UNC does a good job protecting the rim but gives up tons of good looks from 3. Last night they really disrupted our offense - our ball screens, weaves, and downscreens to free up shooters were largely ineffective, the only thing that worked was to abandon sets and dribble drive. Looked like Duke D, so have to give them credit.

We lost the game on offense, mainly because our 3 “glue” guys – Tyler, Rasheed, and Amile, all had atypical games. Tyler was invisible, Amile was pushed around a bit (only 3 boards), and Rasheed in particular really struggled to find driving lanes. Rasheed’s penetration has been a huge part of our offense playing well recently, and the absence really hurt last night. As much as Cook brings emotion to the team, Rasheed brings the swagger and confidence, so when he struggles it tends to be infectious.

With as well as UNC played and as poorly as we played, we still had a chance to steal this. I thought the biggest play of the game came with around 4 minutes left and us up two (62 to 60 I think). Quinn had look at a wide open three – the cleanest look we had all night – and the ball went halfway down (QC started to back-peddle as he thought it was good), but somehow rattled out. UNC grabbed the board and pushed it down court for a transition layup for an effective 5 point swing. If that 3 goes down I think we walk out with a W.

Rodney Hood is an enigma to me. It seems that all of his offense comes from one-on-one play. When he is scoring he is totally unguardable (like H1), but when he is not it really bogs down the flow of the offense with the over-dribbling and poor shot selection (like H2). Don’t think he or the staff has figured out the right balance or best way to use his skill set yet.

Coach K has roughly 970+ more wins than I do, but I don’t understand why we don’t use Jabari in the high post against zone defenses. I think that would be a perfect position for him to shoot the 15 footer or attack the basket. He’s likely not the best person to kick out to an open shooter, but probably better than the alternatives of using Marshall or, like last night, no one.

Don’t think there is a bigger Andre fan than me, but I can understand why he didn’t get any burn in the second half. He missed all three of his 3 point attempts early with none of them close (one really ugly), and despite the solid drives he was getting crushed by MacDonald on the other end of the floor. Maybe he’s nicked up, maybe just an off night, and I would have loved to see him take a corner 3 against those zones, but I can see why the coaches didn’t go back to him last night. Will need him Saturday though.

On the zone, I actually thought we looked much worse against the 1-2-2 than the 1-3-1. Thought we got good looks against 1-3-1 but nothing against the 1-2-2. Will likely see more of that later in the year.

Lastly, I thought the game was horribly officiated. Not biased (I can see how UNC fans would have objections to all of Brice Johnson’s fouls with good reason), but really robbed the game of its flow and made players very tentative. Made the game hard to watch in stretches and calls seem random, which is not what you want from officials. Hopefully everyone adjusts to the “new rules” soon as some of these games get very choppy.

CDu
02-21-2014, 08:36 AM
How much did Plumlee play when Duke went cold? Is Duke's bench only 2 players deep? Do they only have 7 on scholarship? I've already said Cook and particularly Plums played well which makes him not playing on the second half more ridiculous but when you've got tired players in foul trouble who are getting beat defensively they need to sit and it's not like Duke doesn't have said players.

Plumlee played quite a bit in the second half.

jipops
02-21-2014, 08:42 AM
We played poorly for a part of the second half. Otherwise, I thought we played fairly well. In the first half we were scoring in the paint. In fact a graphic showed we had more points in the paint than UNC did (sorry don't remember the exact numbers) which really surprised me. Our defense was better and we were in a position to take the game over.

The second half, we missed shot after shot, and still had the lead for a while, but it finally caught up to us.

Complain all you want about the defense, and it was bad in the latter part of the game, but missing open shots that we normally make is why we lost. We would have survived the 'olay
defense if we could have hit a few shots during that drought.

We even missed a couple of point blank at the basket shots. We make just 1 or 2 of those and the whole game is different, but sometimes that happens...

UNC played a very good game against us. My greatest fears came true, we couldn't make a shot, and Paige took over the game and we had no answer.

I refuse to blame a loss on calls because that is what UNC fans do. I am sure some UNC fans will say that there should have been MORE fouls called on Duke than there were... They did when Hansbrough set the all time record for FT attempts (remember.. he never got a call), so let them own that excuse.... it's defeatist even if true.... it gives you and excuse for losing, which is a bad thing.

However, in general, I believe that this has been my least favorite year for watching basketball in a very long, long time. The way the games are being called is very frustrating to this fan. Whistle after whistle, inconsistencies, phantom calls, no calls on obvious contact, 20 seconds of game play then stoppage for a foul, going to the monitor and spending 5 minutes to review a play... and just an overall sense that the refs are controlling the game instead of the players is wearing on me. In fact, I have stopped watching most games other than Duke or UNC games just because, the game is too ugly. And it cuts both ways... it bothers me even when the poor officiating favors Duke, and it sometimes does.

I may be in the minority, but I liked it a lot better when the refs were not the center piece of the game. I understand in general what the idea was behind the new emphasis on contact (make the game more "pure"), but I think that it has been a major "fail" as far as the aesthetics of the game thus far. If it keeps going this way I probably will lose interest, because I do not watch basketball games to see 50+ FT attempts over a 2.5 hour game. I don't like to see good defense punished, or routine offensive moves to the basket waived off because a defender and the offensive player touched.

I just don't have the patience for it and I'd rather read a good book.

Off the soapbox...

Let's regroup and go get Cuse tomorrow night.

I agree about our play. Except for that long gruesome stretch we played quite well. We are seeing a repeated trend with this team. Long droughts seem to popup in the 2nd half and things start going south.

oldnavy
02-21-2014, 08:44 AM
Plumlee played quite a bit in the second half.

As the front page article said, Plumlee was a positive tonight. He may not get up to Zoubek significance, but I do think it is very encouraging that he is able to give the minutes he is giving and hopefully he can build on that.

There is still work to be done and a lot of ball to be played...

Go Devils!

superdave
02-21-2014, 08:44 AM
Roy obviously saw how we struggled with the zone against Maryland. He rolled out both a 1-2-2 and a 1-3-1 to help turn our well oiled offensive machine into a nightmare factory of bad shots and turnovers. What did we do? The same stuff that didn't work at all and almost cost us the Maryland game.

Except Unc played zone on only a couple of posessions. It was more or less an offspeed pitch mixed in with a bunch of man-to-man fastballs. Their man D beat us.

Besides that, Duke has faced zones all season and excelled against them. So I dont buy that explanation.

oldnavy
02-21-2014, 08:49 AM
I agree about our play. Except for that long gruesome stretch we played quite well. We are seeing a repeated trend with this team. Long droughts seem to popup in the 2nd half and things start going south.

Yea, that is puzzling to me as well.

It has to be a mental thing don't you think?

Hopefully Coach K will come up with something to avoid these droughts.

Honestly, I have never been one of the folks that complain about bench play, but maybe, just maybe when we start one of these funks we do a 5 in 5 out just for a few possessions to see if that snaps us out of it....

I think Coach will figure something out, he's pretty good.

One that thought, I get a kick out of those who defend Coach K against criticism. He is open to it like all of us are. Now sometimes the comments are not very smart, but everyone should be able to express their opinions no matter how ridiculous they are.

BUT, I would be willing to bet that their is no one on earth more critical of Coach K, than Coach K... don't think for a minute he isn't second guessing everything he did or didn't do last night....

You don't get to be the GOAT by not looking to improve...

sagegrouse
02-21-2014, 08:54 AM
Observations:

1. 5 for 22. From three-point line, although UNC gets credit for pretty good defense.

2. 5 for 27. That's assists to FGs. I can not remember a worse ratio for Duke. Now Parker and Hood did miss two layups during the drought that could have changed the outcome, but still....

3. 17 to 26. Fouls called. There were some doozies. Parker gets called for an elbow or push off on a drive. It was a phantom call. Parker's shoulder hit a UNC player's head when jabari had a clear path to the basket.

4. 5 in 10. Andre scored five points in ten minutes while UNC had him covered like a blanket. Where was he during the 2d half when UNC was playing the zone? 10 in 20 wins the game (or 15 in 20).

5. 33-17-3-3-2-0. Quinn's stat line. A warm welcome back to he mighty Quinn. Sure, he made some poor plays at the end. But there was no energy, and he had to go it alone.

6. 16-3-6-0-1-1. Marshall's stat line, and he never seems to get a call. Lessee... with six RBs in 16 minutes, that's 12 in 32 mins.

7. 19 for 23. Those are the Heels' FT stats after a miserable one-for-eight start. Credit to them for getting some focus.

I am lookiong forward to Saturday in the friendly confines of Cameron Indoor Stadium.

CajunDevil
02-21-2014, 08:56 AM
For some reason I'm not terribly upset by this loss... feels weird. Maybe that is because of the 4 games/8 days deal or playing on hostile territory or just because we have a distinct talent advantage over the Heels. I don't know, but here are my thoughts:

1. Quinn makes the offense run. While I've gained tremendous appreciation for Tyler, I think it's time for Quinn to start. I think Tyler does a great job coming off the bench.

2. I hate that we reverted to fading in the last 10 minutes (see Kansas, Arizona, VT, ND, Clemson) . This is a product of a lack of entrenched leadership, imo. We needed that leader to step in and pull the team together. Hopefully, the team will see this as a learning experience and someone will step up. I think Jabari should be that leader... and one way K can help Jabari is by running more sets for Jabari in the post. I don't understand why we aren't going to Jabari more late in games. It makes no sense.

3. Our 1-3-1 offense is bad. Ever since 2011 when Michigan almost beat us in Charlotte during the tourney, I've wondered why more teams didn't run the 1-3-1 with a long, athletic wing at the top. We never see the 1-3-1 in practice and I think it hurt us last night... and against Maryland.

4. Marshall Plumlee played great! He was a man on the boards, played solid D, finished strong and even hit a free throw.

5. Suspect officiating. There were a ton of bad calls or missed calls but Jabari's offensive foul was probably the most amazingly bad call I've seen all year.

I'm glad there is a quick turnaround for the Cuse game so we can get back on the court and get this awful taste out of our mouths.

gus
02-21-2014, 08:58 AM
Observations:

...Parker gets called for an elbow or push off on a drive. It was a phantom call. Parker's shoulder hit a UNC player's head when jabari had a clear path to the basket.

It wasn't his shoulder, it was his elbow, to the head. I thought it was (not being sarcastic) that Tokoto (right?) moved his head into the way, and not Jabari hitting him, but after the contact, Jabari's elbow dropped downward, so in real time it really does look like Parker elbowed him. I think that was bad luck.

Otherwise I agree with your points.

jipops
02-21-2014, 09:00 AM
Yea, that is puzzling to me as well.

It has to be a mental thing don't you think?

Hopefully Coach K will come up with something to avoid these droughts.

Honestly, I have never been one of the folks that complain about bench play, but maybe, just maybe when we start one of these funks we do a 5 in 5 out just for a few possessions to see if that snaps us out of it....

I think Coach will figure something out, he's pretty good.

One that thought, I get a kick out of those who defend Coach K against criticism. He is open to it like all of us are. Now sometimes the comments are not very smart, but everyone should be able to express their opinions no matter how ridiculous they are.

BUT, I would be willing to bet that their is no one on earth more critical of Coach K, than Coach K... don't think for a minute he isn't second guessing everything he did or didn't do last night....

You don't get to be the GOAT by not looking to improve...

Yeah, I think it is mental as in mental fatigue. I think this not a naturally gifted team on defense so they expend so much energy on that end that once a cushion is built, they sort of mentally check out - on both ends. Look, the heels' defense was suffocating last night, but when Roy went to the 1-3-1 I thought he could be giving us the opportunity to blow the game open. We certainly have the personnel to make this a completely boneheaded move. However nothing would go down and we looked absolutely spent by then. Maybe Roy recognized that and that's why he switched defense, in that case it was a great move. But in the usual case we would have stomped all over this situation.

People will of course want to over analyze this and pick apart coaching decisions but I don't think any of that ultimately mattered. As K stated, we had no life to us in the 2nd half. Duke was not in any mode to execute on either end. With a team as small as us, if perimeter shots don't go down we're going to have a hard time beating good teams.

Chicago 1995
02-21-2014, 09:09 AM
Except Unc played zone on only a couple of posessions. It was more or less an offspeed pitch mixed in with a bunch of man-to-man fastballs. Their man D beat us.

Besides that, Duke has faced zones all season and excelled against them. So I dont buy that explanation.

We didn't excel against UMD's zone on Saturday night and we looked just as lost last night, but our offense has struggled against both man and zone, you are right.

At least last night and against UMD, we got really, really stagnant on offense. There was no movement of anything. Very little ball movement and way too much dribbling. There's even less player movement than there is ball movement. We make ourselves really easy to guard by becoming so stationary. That happened against at least Arizona too.

The other thing that goes away in our offense is attacking of the paint. I know that UNC is big (as were Arizona and Kansas, who this also happened against, but not so much ND and Clemson) but we can't just throw the ball around the perimeter (and we haven't even done that in the last week) and expect to get good shots. We shoot a higher percentage on triples when the ball is coming to the shooter from the paint. We also get even more space and time when a perimeter shot comes off rotation after the ball has went in the paint. For that awful, horrible, terrible stretch last night, we dribbled a lot, passed the ball from the left point to the left wing, and ended up taking a contested shot as time wore down on the clock. And that's really easy to guard.

Maybe UNC and UMD are better defensively than I think they are, but we sure are making ourselves easy to guard against any defense when we get passive, and quit moving and attacking. And that's what we've been doing the last week, and it's the same trap we fell into in early January. And even against Zona and KU.

91_92_01_10_15
02-21-2014, 09:12 AM
As the front page article said, Plumlee was a positive tonight. He may not get up to Zoubek significance, but I do think it is very encouraging that he is able to give the minutes he is giving and hopefully he can build on that.

There is still work to be done and a lot of ball to be played...

Go Devils!

Marshall was +14 with a RR of 36! Far and away the best numbers on the team...

http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/02/20/duke-66-north-carolina-74/plus_minus

UrinalCake
02-21-2014, 09:15 AM
I thought the team responded well after UNC's initial charge to go up 6-0. We were a little too amped up to start by settled in. Hood was carrying us early on and it's a shame he had to sit with 2 fouls. His first foul was garbage, he swiped at the ball but never even touched the player, and his second one was a stupid decision, reaching over at the guys arm and letting him score the basket too. Once Hood went out we had a mini-drought that kept UNC close.

For most of the first half I felt like UNC was playing about as well as they possibly could, except for their free throws, and we weren't playing particularly great but were still able to maintain a lead. I thought we were making a concerted effort to have Rasheed drive the lane, and he was getting by his man but couldn't finish very well. Our last possession before halftime was basically wasted; I wish we would work and take the first good shot rather than letting the clock run down and then heaving up a 30 footer.

Second half we missed a lot of opportunities - several missed layups, missed free throws, etc. I didn't feel like we were getting very good looks from 3. Our poor shooting wasn't an issue of "well the shots just weren't falling tonight, what can you do?" We shot poorly because we weren't generating good looks. Instead it was walk the ball down, maybe run the weave for 10 seconds, then jack up a long 3. Not sure why we didn't get the ball to Parker more and attack, especially when MacAdoo was in sort-of foul trouble all game.

The broadcast I was watching never showed a replay of the Parker offensive foul, but it looked like a terrible call in real time. That was basically our last hope at coming back. And of course on the very next possession Paige pushes off with his forearm and hits a jumper, no call.

flyingdutchdevil
02-21-2014, 09:19 AM
Observations:

1. 5 for 22. From three-point line, although UNC gets credit for pretty good defense.

2. 5 for 27. That's assists to FGs. I can not remember a worse ratio for Duke. Now Parker and Hood did miss two layups during the drought that could have changed the outcome, but still....

3. 17 to 26. Fouls called. There were some doozies. Parker gets called for an elbow or push off on a drive. It was a phantom call. Parker's shoulder hit a UNC player's head when jabari had a clear path to the basket.

4. 5 in 10. Andre scored five points in ten minutes while UNC had him covered like a blanket. Where was he during the 2d half when UNC was playing the zone? 10 in 20 wins the game (or 15 in 20).

5. 33-17-3-3-2-0. Quinn's stat line. A warm welcome back to he mighty Quinn. Sure, he made some poor plays at the end. But there was no energy, and he had to go it alone.

6. 16-3-6-0-1-1. Marshall's stat line, and he never seems to get a call. Lessee... with six RBs in 16 minutes, that's 12 in 32 mins.

7. 19 for 23. Those are the Heels' FT stats after a miserable one-for-eight start. Credit to them for getting some focus.

I am lookiong forward to Saturday in the friendly confines of Cameron Indoor Stadium.

With the exception of 3) and 4), I couldn't agree more. Here's why I disagree with a few of your points:

3) Some were doozies, but some were also doozies on the other end. Sulaimon's blatant foul on the Paige fast break was clearly one of them. While fouls were a factor, the refs weren't. UNC just pounded it more inside. They were the more aggressive team and that generally equates to more fouls.

4) Dawkins was interesting. His drives were great, and that was partially because he was guarded so closely. But RoyWill's game plan was to prevent the 3pt shot, and he absolutely succeeded. IMO, the last thing we needed in the 2nd half was more jump shots. If Dawkins came in and continued to drive, that would be amazing. But we haven't seen that much of that trait yet. Maybe Coach K didn't have enough trust in Dawkins's ability to drive.

daveduke76
02-21-2014, 09:20 AM
In the spirit of being optimistic and trying to focus on positives in the wake of that horrible performance, I add one more to the "good" list:

Unlike Carolina's athletes, ours can read at a college level.

Not to helpful and, so you know the academic abilities of all the Tar Heel players, amazing?

The Gordog
02-21-2014, 09:22 AM
MOTM = Andre Dawkins. Why he didn't play more I have no idea. Quinn was pretty good too, but really no one who was on the floor during those 9 minutes deserves it.

daveduke76
02-21-2014, 09:25 AM
I didn't necessarily mean Jones himself would be a big factor, but more as an infusion of energy, while allowing another guy to recharge his batteries. Actually, Jones is pretty good at slashing his way into the paint and getting to the foul line as well. I thought if he could have played something like 3-5 minutes in the 2nd half and spelled Sulaimon or Hood, it might have worked out well. Sulaimon looked gassed out there and his jumper really was off. Same with Hood during that bad 9 minute stretch. A couple of high energy minutes from Jones might have provided some kind of spark, or at least let those starters catch their breath a bit.

Agree, they needed some energy from somewhere, getting a charge from the bench (Matt) might have helped. It seemed like when Carolina went to the 1-3-1 zone we couldn't figure it out and that just knocked the wind out of us.

dyedwab
02-21-2014, 09:28 AM
However, in general, I believe that this has been my least favorite year for watching basketball in a very long, long time. The way the games are being called is very frustrating to this fan. Whistle after whistle, inconsistencies, phantom calls, no calls on obvious contact, 20 seconds of game play then stoppage for a foul, going to the monitor and spending 5 minutes to review a play... and just an overall sense that the refs are controlling the game instead of the players is wearing on me. In fact, I have stopped watching most games other than Duke or UNC games just because, the game is too ugly. And it cuts both ways... it bothers me even when the poor officiating favors Duke, and it sometimes does.

I may be in the minority, but I liked it a lot better when the refs were not the center piece of the game. I understand in general what the idea was behind the new emphasis on contact (make the game more "pure"), but I think that it has been a major "fail" as far as the aesthetics of the game thus far. If it keeps going this way I probably will lose interest, because I do not watch basketball games to see 50+ FT attempts over a 2.5 hour game. I don't like to see good defense punished, or routine offensive moves to the basket waived off because a defender and the offensive player touched.

I just don't have the patience for it and I'd rather read a good book.

Off the soapbox...

Let's regroup and go get Cuse tomorrow night.

Agree with this. The new emphasis, in my mind, is the problem so much as the execution by the officials is unpredictable and off center. Guys are getting hammered underneath with no calls, while bumps are being called routinely on the perimeter....it's a frustrating game to watch.

And, yes, we are not a good defensive team, and that leads to fouls because we are out of position, and reach and flail....but, in a year where the offensive foul has been decreasing, we seem to have our very good drivers called for more of them thanI would expect.

flyingdutchdevil
02-21-2014, 09:38 AM
Agree with this. The new emphasis, in my mind, is the problem so much as the execution by the officials is unpredictable and off center. Guys are getting hammered underneath with no calls, while bumps are being called routinely on the perimeter....it's a frustrating game to watch.

And, yes, we are not a good defensive team, and that leads to fouls because we are out of position, and reach and flail....but, in a year where the offensive foul has been decreasing, we seem to have our very good drivers called for more of them thanI would expect.

In UNC's defense, JMM's ability to draw charges may be tops in the ACC. He's significantly better than Hairston at this dying facet of the game.

UrinalCake
02-21-2014, 09:48 AM
MOTM = Andre Dawkins. Why he didn't play more I have no idea. Quinn was pretty good too, but really no one who was on the floor during those 9 minutes deserves it.

During the first half we ran the curl-screen for Andre at least 10 times. He was unable to get a clean look at a 3 and instead forced several. The biggest weapon he brings to the table for us is his three point shooting, and UNC was able to take it away. He did do a good job driving the ball twice, but my guess is that K thought if we're going to have to drive then we're better letting Rasheed, Hood, or Parker do that. As has been stated, Andre was doing a poor job defensively.

Honestly I liked the fact that in the first half we built a lead without shooting a lot of threes. In retrospect we can see that we had a second half scoring drought and so changing anything would be an improvement, but at the time we were still holding a lead and so playing a better defender rather than a three point shooter who had been ineffective thus far was the right decision IMO.

superdave
02-21-2014, 09:49 AM
2. 5 for 27. That's assists to FGs. I can not remember a worse ratio for Duke. Now Parker and Hood did miss two layups during the drought that could have changed the outcome, but still....




I noticed that too. That shows a lot of one-on-one moves.

To compare, we had 15 assists on 30 made FGs vs Kansas; 11 on 25 vs Arizona; 8 on 24 vs ND; 12 on 20 vs Clemson; 20 on 31 vs Cuse.

So 5 on 27 FGs is evidence of an extra-specially stagnant offense. Thank goodness for Quinn driving the lane a bunch, otherwise our guys would have all been standing around looking at each other.

flyingdutchdevil
02-21-2014, 09:52 AM
I noticed that too. That shows a lot of one-on-one moves.

To compare, we had 15 assists on 30 made FGs vs Kansas; 11 on 25 vs Arizona; 8 on 24 vs ND; 12 on 20 vs Clemson; 20 on 31 vs Cuse.

So 5 on 27 FGs is evidence of an extra-specially stagnant offense. Thank goodness for Quinn driving the lane a bunch, otherwise our guys would have all been standing around looking at each other.

Very strange. And very atypical for Duke. Credit UNC's phenom D for some of that. But a lot of that responsibility also falls on the players and coaching staff. I'm not sure why this was the case and why we reverted to 1-on-1.

vrob90
02-21-2014, 09:58 AM
"With as well as UNC played and as poorly as we played, we still had a chance to steal this."

UNC didn't play particularly well; Duke just played worse. UNC's zone wasn't suffocating at all. Duke had quite a few open looks and just couldn't get them to go in. Steal this? Duke led almost the entire game.

DukieInBrasil
02-21-2014, 09:59 AM
1. Quinn makes the offense run. While I've gained tremendous appreciation for Tyler, I think it's time for Quinn to start. I think Tyler does a great job coming off the bench.

2. I hate that we reverted to fading in the last 10 minutes (see Kansas, Arizona, VT, ND, Clemson) . This is a product of a lack of entrenched leadership, imo. We needed that leader to step in and pull the team together. Hopefully, the team will see this as a learning experience and someone will step up. I think Jabari should be that leader... and one way K can help Jabari is by running more sets for Jabari in the post. I don't understand why we aren't going to Jabari more late in games. It makes no sense.


I agree, the offense usually looks much better with a healthy Quinn running the point.
This team has a leadership void, aside from Tyler who is not capable of taking over on offense when we need it. Hood has been a very good player at times, but a poor leader. Last night he reverted back to the dribble the ball around a lot jack up a long, often contested, jumper. That's not a good offensive set, and it displays poor leadership by not getting teammates involved to get a better look either for himself (Hood) or others. I remember watching one segment in which Hood was defending someone along the baseline, watched the pass go to the wing (arms at his side) and then the receiving player dribbled within a foot or two of Hood, who made no effort to defend the play. Also, Hood had ZERO rebounds last night. While he is a gifted shooter, at 6'8, he needs to be grabbing more rebounds.

nocilla
02-21-2014, 10:01 AM
We played poorly for a part of the second half. Otherwise, I thought we played fairly well. In the first half we were scoring in the paint. In fact a graphic showed we had more points in the paint than UNC did (sorry don't remember the exact numbers) which really surprised me. Our defense was better and we were in a position to take the game over.

The second half, we missed shot after shot, and still had the lead for a while, but it finally caught up to us.


IIRC, the graphic said we led 24-14 in points in the paint at halftime. It seemed to me that a big difference in the second half was UNC's ability to strip the ball once Duke got into the paint. This combined with their focus on the 3 was a big reason for the scoring drought.

DukieInBrasil
02-21-2014, 10:10 AM
The broadcast I was watching never showed a replay of the Parker offensive foul, but it looked like a terrible call in real time. That was basically our last hope at coming back. And of course on the very next possession Paige pushes off with his forearm and hits a jumper, no call.

The replay clearly showed Paige pushing Hood off with his elbow. Easy to get a clean look at the rim when you get away with offensive fouls.
Conversely, it's difficult to score when you are called for offensive fouls that never occur.

Eakane
02-21-2014, 10:29 AM
"I hate that we reverted to fading in the last 10 minutes (see Kansas, Arizona, VT, ND, Clemson)"

You forgot Maryland and Virginia, both of which we were fortunate to win after frittering away a 2nd half 10-12 point lead.

What's the explanation? Are we fatigued (maybe we get a pass for last night as the 3rd game in 6 days)? Or is it a lack of focus (build a lead and then try to coast to the finish line)? A lack of leadership? Is it youth? Or is it something else? I honestly don't know. Yesterday it was a scoring draught of epic proportions; but what caused a usually solid shooting team to disintegrate like that?

I'm not that concerned about yesterday's loss; all Carolina did was hold serve-- I'm much more concerned with the pattern or trend -- the inability to finish a game.

This is who we are. We're a good team with immense talent and a great coach. But for whatever reason, we have not figured out how to close. This makes us vulnerable to an upset in March. Time to stock up on Pepto.

fgb
02-21-2014, 10:34 AM
imo, the final score was unc 31, duke 12.

superdave
02-21-2014, 10:45 AM
imo, the final score was unc 31, duke 12.

Duke was up 51-40 at one point, meaning we got beat 34-15 over final 15 minutes.

Were you making a similar point?

flyingdutchdevil
02-21-2014, 10:49 AM
Duke was up 51-40 at one point, meaning we got beat 34-15 over final 15 minutes.

Were you making a similar point?

He / she is referring to fouls. I assume he/she is also blaming the refs. Sigh...

-bdbd
02-21-2014, 10:56 AM
"I hate that we reverted to fading in the last 10 minutes (see Kansas, Arizona, VT, ND, Clemson)"

You forgot Maryland and Virginia, both of which we were fortunate to win after frittering away a 2nd half 10-12 point lead.

What's the explanation? Are we fatigued (maybe we get a pass for last night as the 3rd game in 6 days)? Or is it a lack of focus (build a lead and then try to coast to the finish line)? A lack of leadership? Is it youth? Or is it something else? I honestly don't know. Yesterday it was a scoring draught of epic proportions; but what caused a usually solid shooting team to disintegrate like that?

I'm not that concerned about yesterday's loss; all Carolina did was hold serve-- I'm much more concerned with the pattern or trend -- the inability to finish a game.

This is who we are. We're a good team with immense talent and a great coach. But for whatever reason, we have not figured out how to close. This makes us vulnerable to an upset in March. Time to stock up on Pepto.

I too am not too concerned. I loved K's comments afterwards, that "we didn't have 'it' tonight, whatever 'it' is." IOW, we didn't have enough fight in us, didn't play with sufficient passion and energy. He said he could see it in the huddles. "We played young tonight."

I'm hopeful that we see a bounceback effort versus Syracuse Sat.




Duke was up 51-40 at one point, meaning we got beat 34-15 over final 15 minutes.


Were you making a similar point?

Super, am pretty sure fgb is talking about the refs and the disparity in free-throws... (was even worse than those number b/c of all the front ends of 1-and-1's NC missed)

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400537134

The Gordog
02-21-2014, 11:27 AM
I too am not too concerned. I loved K's comments afterwards, that "we didn't have 'it' tonight, whatever 'it' is." IOW, we didn't have enough fight in us, didn't play with sufficient passion and energy. He said he could see it in the huddles. "We played young tonight."

I'm hopeful that we see a bounceback effort versus Syracuse Sat.


I have to agree with K there. Also, I did not agree with his use of timeouts. He took his second to last at about 4:15 left. Why do that when the next dead ball is a media time out? We were trading baskets at that point - yes our D was bad but at least our O was getting some rhythm. That TO took us out of it.

This team is fun to watch and root for, but we basically have no killer leader on this team. Quinn has potential but last night he missed the front of a 1 and 1 that was critical. Hood and Parker just don't look good on D at all - every highlight at the end of the ESPN broadcast was of Hood or Parker getting killed on D. Usually Hood is better than that. I love Mr. Sulu but his drives are so telegraphed that everyone seems able to stop him. The great teams have someone who is always fresher than the other team at the end of the game. I feel like Quinn has that endurance. For a minute or two it seemed like he made it his mission to go mano-a-mano against Paige and was getting the better, but then we stalled and settled for jumpers again. Sigh.

gofurman
02-21-2014, 11:28 AM
I recall pre-game someone on here compared UNC to Wake saying "would we fear these same guys if Wake was on their jersey".. I wonder if he still feels that way. That IS NOT WAKE FOREST and UNC is improving fast. Name on jersey had nothing to do w it. UNC is improving - they arent super-duper great and some home cookin' but they are a v good team. Esp at home.

Sick of hearing how we had this game easy. PPPPPPPLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSSSSEEEEE EEE. Think us winning with Rivers last shot. No reason we should have won that one. A - its bball and anything can happen. ask BC and Syracuse. B. Its Duke v UNC

Scorp4me
02-21-2014, 11:48 AM
Haven't read the entire thread, although I tried to skim it all so I wouldn't rehash. Yes, the foul calling indicated a home court advantage, but there's nothing wrong in that (unless of course you include the fact that Duke gets the calls conspiracy still will be alive and well), but really the call on Jabari followed by the no call on Paige were my only real complaints. They killed any chance we had, but to be honest we should never have been in that position at all.

As someone else already mentioned, Carolina's zone was nothing special...we just don't know how to attack a zone. To me it seems whenever a team zones us we pass around the perimeter and a take three, often times long and contested. I seem to remember one game where we attacked the zone well, but that's it. This isn't a new phenomenon. Zone's have always been around, they've been more prevalent this year, and this isn't the first time we've seen it so I'm disappointed we are still struggling with it.

Carolina has some good individuals, not sure they're a particularly good team. But it's Duke-Carolina. Some players got hot, we had some droughts, what can you say. But I am concerned about our consistent inability to handle a zone and revert to past poor habits. We might not have had 'it' last night, but I'm not sure we needed 'it' to win if we handled that zone better. It's just a different defense, it shouldn't be that difficult for this team. They certainly have the pieces to handle it. Maybe not the perfect pieces, but enough.

UrinalCake
02-21-2014, 11:53 AM
With our shooters we should be able to destroy a zone, but we just aren't working to create good shots. Chalk some of it up to fatigue, but I mean we need to be doing more than weaving up top and then tossing up bad shots. Not only does it have a very low probability of success, it also lets the defense rest and then sets them up for a long rebound and a transition bucket the other way. Attack the zone! The previous poster is right, we're seeing more zone this year with the rule changes, and we're definitely going to see more now that Maryland and UNC have provided a blueprint for how to stop our offense.

CR9
02-21-2014, 11:54 AM
Carolina did nothing special. They are an average team and played like such last night. Duke gave the game away, plain and simple. Every one of them.

jipops
02-21-2014, 12:03 PM
"I hate that we reverted to fading in the last 10 minutes (see Kansas, Arizona, VT, ND, Clemson)"

You forgot Maryland and Virginia, both of which we were fortunate to win after frittering away a 2nd half 10-12 point lead.

What's the explanation? Are we fatigued (maybe we get a pass for last night as the 3rd game in 6 days)? Or is it a lack of focus (build a lead and then try to coast to the finish line)? A lack of leadership? Is it youth? Or is it something else? I honestly don't know. Yesterday it was a scoring draught of epic proportions; but what caused a usually solid shooting team to disintegrate like that?

I'm not that concerned about yesterday's loss; all Carolina did was hold serve-- I'm much more concerned with the pattern or trend -- the inability to finish a game.

This is who we are. We're a good team with immense talent and a great coach. But for whatever reason, we have not figured out how to close. This makes us vulnerable to an upset in March. Time to stock up on Pepto.

Yea, I'd say it has been a pattern even in wins. We even saw it in GTech though it had few ramifications because Tech is such a bad team.

Just to try to offer up one explanation, I think it just has a lot to do with the general makeup of this team. This is not a defensive minded group, there are very few defensive instincts to build off of from this group. Name a player on the team that you can confidently say is a good help-side defender, Tyler Thornton, Matt Jones - that may be it. Therefore, a lot more energy is expended just to play defense. I think that's why once any cushion is built, the guys start to check out a little bit from mental fatigue and this affects both ends. K has always stressed building good habits and this has a lot to do with a player becoming able to react on defense without thinking too much. I think this has been very difficult to instill in this team. So the problem cascades, once letting down mentally the shots can stop falling and that causes the defense to fade even more.

Joseph
02-21-2014, 12:04 PM
Dawkins would be playing 30 minutes a game for any team in the country. Ojeyele would be playing 20 plus minutes. Dont say they cannot play defense nobody plays defense. Not the loss that is bad. Way we play offense weave and dribble.

nyesq83
02-21-2014, 12:10 PM
Questionable officiating, homer calls, our two stars and then almost entire team in foul trouble,

tired legs (on both teams) to start and for most of the game,

horrendous shooting, barely any assists,

AND WE STILL ALMOST WON.

I like this team come Carolina or high water.

Let's beat Syracuse!

DukieinSoCal
02-21-2014, 12:12 PM
I agree, the offense usually looks much better with a healthy Quinn running the point.
This team has a leadership void, aside from Tyler who is not capable of taking over on offense when we need it. Hood has been a very good player at times, but a poor leader. Last night he reverted back to the dribble the ball around a lot jack up a long, often contested, jumper. That's not a good offensive set, and it displays poor leadership by not getting teammates involved to get a better look either for himself (Hood) or others. I remember watching one segment in which Hood was defending someone along the baseline, watched the pass go to the wing (arms at his side) and then the receiving player dribbled within a foot or two of Hood, who made no effort to defend the play. Also, Hood had ZERO rebounds last night. While he is a gifted shooter, at 6'8, he needs to be grabbing more rebounds.

I think this is the key with this team. I really don't believe last night's loss was about the refs or fatigue, or who played how many minutes. We had so many opportunities to extend our lead and put the game away. But too many bad shots, poor decisions, and indecisiveness led to our downfall.
And it's not just last night. It's been a recurring pattern in road games and games against elite teams. We have enough talent to beat anybody this year. We just don't have the calmness, the confidence, the "it" that makes up great leadership. The years that we have great teams, either our point guard or seniors lead us through tough stretches and help us close out games. For a multitude of reasons, we just don't have it yet. Quinn has never quite gotten to that level, likely due to his past injuries, recent injuries, losing his starting position, etc. Rodney is basically a sophomore on the court and a freshman to playing in such big games. Jabari has lost confidence in his shot, both from long-range and the free throw line. And Jabari is also a freshmen who is such a good kid that he doesn't want to step on anyone's toes(see SI article). I could go on and on.
I still have a lot of hope for this team. We have tons of talent, a HOF coach, and a few weeks left to figure things out. But I really think it's our mental and emotional maturity that will determine how far we go. Our kids are all intelligent, high-character, competitive kids that are willing to do whatever it takes. I think the chances are pretty good that we'll start to see the leadership emerge. Let's go Duke!

OldPhiKap
02-21-2014, 12:13 PM
Carolina did nothing special. They are an average team and played like such last night.

Carolina is playing some of the best ball in the country right now.


Duke gave the game away, plain and simple. Every one of them.

We had several good performances, but got beat. Part of that was on us, part of that is a credit to Carolina. I don't get this at all.

Reilly
02-21-2014, 12:21 PM
Props to Glenwood -- they played better than any elementary school team I've ever seen.

I should take the high road and just leave it at that, but a part of me does wonder if they are really elementary students (aside from their reading level) ... some had facial hair, and I'm not positive they all actually live in the Glenwood district, either.

Trey21
02-21-2014, 12:46 PM
It is worth mentioning the fact that Carolina rushed the floor?

I understand Unc fans were salivating for this win, and were dying to prove that the Dean Dome is one of the rowdiest places to play.

Still though in the biggest rivalry game in sports, where the game is essentially a tossup every time. I don't think you should rush unless a Championship was on the line. I think the fact that they rushed the floor was just weak, you'd never see that anywhere else. I understand and credit Carolina for getting their first win against Duke on their home floor in 2 years, but they're trying a little bit too hard. Unc is a good team, but what fans of good teams rush the floor under these circumstances?

For basketball analysis, I'm still waiting to see Jabari in the high-post. he can make the mid-range jumper and he can take the defender off the dribble. Have TT, Rasheed, Rodney, Quinn, or Andre out behind the arc for the kickout if the defense collapses on Jabari.

Lar77
02-21-2014, 12:49 PM
It is worth mentioning the fact that Carolina rushed the floor?

I understand Unc fans were salivating for this win, and were dying to prove that the Dean Dome is one of the rowdiest places to play.

Still though in the biggest rivalry game in sports, where the game is essentially a tossup every time. I don't think you should rush unless a Championship was on the line. I think the fact that they rushed the floor was just weak, you'd never see that anywhere else. I understand and credit Carolina for getting their first win against Duke on their home floor in 2 years, but they're trying a little bit too hard. Unc is a good team, but what fans of good teams rush the floor under these circumstances?

For basketball analysis, I'm still waiting to see Jabari in the high-post. he can make the mid-range jumper and he can take the defender off the dribble. Have TT, Rasheed, Rodney, Quinn, or Andre out behind the arc for the kickout if the defense collapses on Jabari.

I also thought it was a weak move to rush the court. It even surprised the ESPN announcers.

Mike Corey
02-21-2014, 01:13 PM
If Duke had been previously undefeated, and if UNC had won the game on a miraculous last-second shot, I'd understand the court-rushing. But this isn't the first time UNC has rushed the court against Duke in the past decade, and it won't be the last. It further elevates Duke over UNC, IMO, so I'm fine with it, even if I think it's...just weird for UNC to do it again and again.

Duke did not play anywhere near its best game last night. As much credit is being given to the Heels, I think we made their defense look a little better with our weary legs, which resulted in the following: less effective off the ball movement, less effective screens, less effective penetration, more settling for outside shots, and shots hitting the front of the rim, indicating those weary legs.

We were getting beat in all the ways that we seldom get beat, no matter our talent level over the years.

I'm confident UNC is one of the ten best teams in the country right now. So is Duke. Duke looked the part in the first half, UNC looked the part in the second.

The Syracuse game will have to be played on fumes and grit. I'm confident we can get it done. I'm also confident that come mid-March, we'll be the team to beat. I love this team.

We've gritted out wins before, and in a hostile environment last night, we couldn't grit it out. Better Duke teams have gone into Chapel Hill and suffered a similar fate.

Here's hoping Saturday goes better than the oddsmakers in Vegas anticipate, and let's keep gettin' better.

Selover
02-21-2014, 01:14 PM
Personally, I'm fine with them rushing the court. It just shows some programs have class and some have low reading levels :cool:

meowmix911
02-21-2014, 01:14 PM
Why are we nitpicking "rushing the court"? Nobody got hurt... It is what it is. If kids are having fun (which they were), and they want to rush the court and have pandemonium, and then go crazy on Franklin St, that's fine. A win by them over us is big--so they were happy--they rushed the court. Big deal. This is a team that needed a big win to solidify their recent win streak, to prove they are Jekyll right now and not Hyde, so I can totally understand it.




I also thought it was a weak move to rush the court. It even surprised the ESPN announcers.

g-money
02-21-2014, 01:18 PM
Observations:

2. 5 for 27. That's assists to FGs. I can not remember a worse ratio for Duke. Now Parker and Hood did miss two layups during the drought that could have changed the outcome, but still....

3. 17 to 26. Fouls called. There were some doozies. Parker gets called for an elbow or push off on a drive. It was a phantom call. Parker's shoulder hit a UNC player's head when jabari had a clear path to the basket.

I am lookiong forward to Saturday in the friendly confines of Cameron Indoor Stadium.

Nice post Sage. A couple follow-up points:

- Blame the refs or not, anytime one team out-shoots the other 31-12 in FTs, the win probability of the team that shoots the 12 FTs is going to be < 5%. Even if you discount the last few Carolina FTs due to intentional fouling, that kind of discrepancy is just tough to overcome. Now, did the two teams "deserve" the FT tally they received? I'm sure Duke and Carolina fans will come to a consensus on that one.

- I spent much of the second half yelling "ball movement!!" at the TV. A recurring theme of the season is that our guys have gotten bogged down on the offensive end in the second half. It's a bit reminiscent of the first year Wade and Lebron were together on the Heat - it seemed like every game, they would give up on playing as a team at some point in the second half and start taking hero shots. While the problem has obviously been solved by Miami, it literally took them a couple of years to figure out how to play together. We've got weeks, not years, to work with (curse the one-and-done rule!), so Coach K definitely has his work cut out.

- I hate to say it, but credit to Carolina and 'ol Roy. While a mature offensive team can generally pick gimmick zones apart, his strategy worked against our inexperienced team. They probably deserve to be in the top 25 at this point.

- That said, I can't wait for the rematch in Cameron. I'm looking forward to an 82-50-style beatdown as Duke finally puts it all together in time for the post-season. I'm already looking forward to seeing MPIII hit an alley-oop jam on a half court pass from Hood. :)

jamos14
02-21-2014, 01:20 PM
Here's hoping Saturday goes better than the oddsmakers in Vegas anticipate, and let's keep gettin' better.


What are the early odds? I can't seem to find any?

bedeviled
02-21-2014, 01:22 PM
I don't blame UNC for rushing the court at all. It was an exciting win versus a hated rival. If I were a student in the crowd, I would have been elated to join in the jubilation. Typically, kids have just 4 chances to be part of an overwhelming tradition...and UNC's chances had repeatedly passed by unfulfilled :) . I would expect no less from the Duke/UNC matchup, no matter which venue it is. Andl, it's a bit disingenuous to treat the win as no big deal and then leave to celebrate with bonfires and partying.