ACC Player of the Year (Best player or Most valuable?)

[wgl1228]

Just curious as to what you guys think about this. We still have a few more weeks of ACC play left but I think its time for a discussion. I think it's pretty much down to Ennis, Fair, Parker, or Warren. I think Parker is the best player but the most valuable is probably Ennis. Hope Jabari finishes strong for our sake. Discuss.....

[brevity]

The definition of this kind of award is vague enough so that half of the voters look at it one wrong way, and the other half look at it the other wrong way.

Olympic Fan pointed out in an earlier thread that there is nothing that requires a voter to look only at conference play, which means the whole regular season could be considered. Considering that the ACC named a Player of the Week and a Freshman of the Week as early as November 11, I'd say there's something to that.

Then there's the "best" vs. "most valuable" thing. Even if you prefer one over the other, neither is clearly defined. If there is no one best player, do you just pick the best player on the best team? What if there is a best player who plays on a poor team? Is it more pure to try to imagine which player's absence would most affect a team? And if so, how the Chapel Hill do you do that?

Finally, there's the supporting evidence. Are you a statistics person, or do you rely on the eye test? (Note: the eye test is old analyst-speak for "Get those numbers away from me, Poindexter. I know what I saw.")

Let me try: Entire regular season. Most valuable. His absence makes the team a complete wreck. Eye test. Congratulations to my ACC Player of the Year: PJ Hairston.

[rsvman]

Epic response by brevity. Truly a work of genius.

[Bob Green]

Finally, there's the supporting evidence. Are you a statistics person, or do you rely on the eye test? (Note: the eye test is old analyst-speak for "Get those numbers away from me, Poindexter. I know what I saw.")



Both statistics and the eye test should be utilized in determining who deserves the ACC Player of the Year award. Len Elmore did an excellent job describing his methodology earlier this week. First, he uses statistics to determine which players belong in the conversation. Len says the top five are C.J. Fair, Jabari Parker, T.J. Warren, Lamar Patterson and Rodney Hood. Next, the best of the best is selected using the dependable eye test.

Queue up the Len Elmore hate! However, before you start hating on Lenny, please count to ten because he is right. And be sure to acknowledge he has two Blue Devils in his top five. The only quibble I have with Mr. Elmore is I believe Joe Harris belongs in the mix. He will not win, but he deserves to be in the conversation.

[Wander]

The only quibble I have with Mr. Elmore is I believe Joe Harris belongs in the mix. He will not win, but he deserves to be in the conversation.

Is Joe Harris even the best player on his own team?

[Bob Green]

Is Joe Harris even the best player on his own team?

Yes.

[vick]

In practice, the ACC POY seems to have been much more about in-conference play than overall play (quite rightly, in my view)--look at Mason losing to Green last year, or Scheyer losing to Vasquez in 2010. If I offer the following players blindly, who do you think is having a better season:

PPG: 15.2 vs. 15.9
RPG: 6.0 vs. 6.2
APG: 2.9 vs. 1.3
SPG: 1.6 vs. 1.1
BPG: 0.1 vs. 0.8
TOV/G: 0.9 vs. 1.7
True shots*/game: 13.0 vs. 16.3
PER: 27.2 vs. 17.7

Both teams are known for a slow pace, and are separated by one game in the standings.

* Field goal attempts + 0.475*Free throw attempts

[FerryFor50]

In practice, the ACC POY seems to have been much more about in-conference play than overall play (quite rightly, in my view)--look at Mason losing to Green last year, or Scheyer losing to Vasquez in 2010. If I offer the following players blindly, who do you think is having a better season:

PPG: 15.2 vs. 15.9
RPG: 6.0 vs. 6.2
APG: 2.9 vs. 1.3
SPG: 1.6 vs. 1.1
BPG: 0.1 vs. 0.8
TOV/G: 0.9 vs. 1.7
True shots*/game: 13.0 vs. 16.3
PER: 27.2 vs. 17.7

Both teams are known for a slow pace, and are separated by one game in the standings.

* Field goal attempts + 0.475*Free throw attempts

I'm guessing one of those is Malcolm Brogden given your man crush for him. ;)

How about this guy?

Ppg: 23.1
Rpg: 7.4
Apg: .9
Spg: 1.6
BPG: .6
Turnover per game: 2.2
True shots: 20.1
PER: 26.9

[vick]

I'm guessing one of those is Malcolm Brogden given your man crush for him. ;)

How about this guy?

Ppg: 23.1
Rpg: 7.4
Apg: .9
Spg: 1.6
BPG: .6
Turnover per game: 2.2
True shots: 20.1
PER: 26.9

Haha yup, Brogdon is A, Fair is B. Warren (your not-so-mystery guy, though you used whole-season stats and not in-conference--not a huge difference with him though) is indeed having a very good year, I'm just skeptical he keeps up his pace against the tougher teams coming up on NC State's schedule. But if he does, and certainly he could, he will and should be in the discussion, no doubt.

I definitely don't think Brogdon is certainly the best player in the ACC, I'm just consistently surprised how he never even gets mentioned when his stats are clearly better than Fair--essentially the same raw, while being much more efficient, on similarly-good teams (in the conference season, not overall).

[FerryFor50]

Haha yup, Brogdon is A, Fair is B. Warren (your not-so-mystery guy, though you used whole-season stats and not in-conference--not a huge difference with him though) is indeed having a very good year, I'm just skeptical he keeps up his pace against the tougher teams coming up on NC State's schedule. But if he does, and certainly he could, he will and should be in the discussion, no doubt.

I definitely don't think Brogdon is certainly the best player in the ACC, I'm just consistently surprised how he never even gets mentioned when his stats are clearly better than Fair--essentially the same raw, while being much more efficient, on similarly-good teams (in the conference season, not overall).

Hey, I mentioned Brogden on my other list!

I am with you on Fair, though. I think Ennis and Grant are more valuable than Fair. I feel like Fair gets the attention because he's a senior.

Equivalent of the lifetime achievement award at the Oscars...

[gofurman]

Hey, I mentioned Brogden on my other list!

I am with you on Fair, though. I think Ennis and Grant are more valuable than Fair. I feel like Fair gets the attention because he's a senior.

Equivalent of the lifetime achievement award at the Oscars...

He doesn't get the pub but KJ McDaniels at Clemson is a beast. Only guy in the country to lead his team in points, steals, blocks and rebounds! Only guy in all of NCAA. Dude is a freak like a poor man's Maggette perhaps. I witnessed it in person at Duke's loss at Clemson. Been watching him all year. Put 30 points up vs Notre Dame (.of the 64 Clemson scored). Sheeeesh. Interesting stat they keep at Clemson - most blocks by any player and ALSO most blocks by any player 6'6" or shorter. He is going to leave Clemson with that latter honor easily.