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Ray Smith
02-13-2014, 01:54 PM
I hate Duke Basketball, I respect Duke Basketball and I will miss Duke Basketball. All are the emotions as I plan to watch my beloved Terrapins play Duke for the 174th and last time as conference opponents. My freshman year began in 1980 watching Buck Williams and Albert King and graduating in 1984 witnessing the greatness of Len Bias. My love of Maryland Basketball began long before 1980, but my excitement for Duke V Md started in the 1980 ACC finals as I watched Buck Williams and Kenny Dennard tangle under the hoop to dash our chances for an ACC championship. I realize our on and off again rivalry is not to the degree of UNC, but like an occasional comet burning in the sky the Duke V Md games burned white hot with emotion and intensity. Three years ago I travelled from Seattle to Cameron Indoor to watch Gary Williamsís last game at Duke. I had no idea what to expect as I took my seat in section 6 wearing my Maryland shirt among the Duke faithful. I sat next to a woman who told me she has been to every Duke home game since the 70ís and shared with me the history of the arena and her love of Duke Basketball. As we continued our discussions about college basketball, the two universities and how far I traveled to watch a game I began to realize what I probably already knew: I respect Duke Basketball. When I sit down to watch our final game I will hope for an upset, but I will pay closer attention to the student section, the loudness of Cameron, and the intensity of your Coach K coaching against my team for the last time. Our two games ever year meant a great deal to me. When we played Duke and occasionally beat Duke it elevated Maryland to a higher level which is a testament to the opponent. I realize there has been some ugly fan behavior (mostly in CP), but when both schools were good there was nothing better than those two hours of battle. I wish you well as you search for your second best conference rival to replace Maryland. Iím glad weíve had these 174 games even though we lost 110 of them. Thanks for treating me so well during my one and only visit to Cameron. It will be strange to not see Duke on the schedule again. Peace

Ray M. Smith
University of Maryland
Class 0f 1984

Kedsy
02-13-2014, 02:07 PM
Thanks for sharing. I was a sophomore in 1980 and attended the ACC final when Duke edged Maryland by a single point. My seats were in the end zone, a few rows away from the basket where Dennard may or may not have undercut Williams. It was a game and moment I will always cherish.

We've had our ups and downs with Maryland and I know a lot of people around here can't see past the often boorish fan behavior in College Park, but speaking only for myself, I will miss having Maryland in the ACC.

superdave
02-13-2014, 02:14 PM
I've honestly been missing Gary Williams for a few years now. He was a great competitor. You always knew he had something up his sleeve for Duke, and it was fun to watch. I got kind of excited when my Mom texted me yesterday to say that Jamie Dixon is the new Gary Williams. Hopefully he has that same competitive streak.

I have not seen Maryland play at all this season. The only guy I worry about is Dez Wells.

Atldukie79
02-13-2014, 02:53 PM
Thank you Ray Smith for your thoughts on the rivalry. I attended games in the 60's as a kid when I marveled at the red headed player from Maryland (was it O'Brien?) we called BOZO. I watched McMillen Lucas and Elmore take second place from UNC to the NC State dynasty for a couple of years. I sat in the front row of the pep band while a student at Duke screaming at Maryland. Lefty, Len Bias...I remember all those guys and games.

I am sorry to see the circumstances develop that take Maryland out of the ACC. As Bob Harris said in the Wash Post video, money will ruin sports as we know it. And this is just one manifestation of that. Whether recent ADs at Maryland were inept at fund raising, or the ACC lags other conferences as a money machine, I resented seeing a "newbie" Maryland president with Big Ten ties take leave. Many around here say good riddance...(largely pertaining to the boorish fan behavior at Maryland I suppose). But I hate to see this happen.

The odd thing from my Duke perspective was to watch the Maryland folks cling to rivalry as THE rivalry when Duke would have nothing of it. Sure, the 2001-02 time frame was intense, but UNC/Duke was and is THE rivalry. I do wonder if UNC thought that way about Duke in the 1970's...

flyingdutchdevil
02-13-2014, 02:56 PM
I've honestly been missing Gary Williams for a few years now. He was a great competitor. You always knew he had something up his sleeve for Duke, and it was fun to watch. I got kind of excited when my Mom texted me yesterday to say that Jamie Dixon is the new Gary Williams. Hopefully he has that same competitive streak.

I have not seen Maryland play at all this season. The only guy I worry about is Dez Wells.

I miss Gary too. He was one of the top, if not the top, x's & o's coach in the country. If he played the recruiting game, he'd have a lot more wins under his belt.

Happy to hear that Gary and K are good friends.

Henderson
02-13-2014, 05:41 PM
The OP is a nice gesture. Thanks.

I'm surprised he didn't mention Lefty Driesell, who was the coach at MD while the OP was an undergraduate. I miss that guy.

Buck Williams, Albert King, and especially Len Bias, yes. Oh, what the Celtics would have been like with him.

But I have to say: Maryland was never that important to me (rival? no), so their leaving the ACC isn't going to bother me one bit. Out with the bad air, in with the good.

burnspbesq
02-13-2014, 06:47 PM
Trading Maryland for Cuse improves the quality of ACC competition in exactly two sports: men's basketball and men's lacrosse. Every other high-profile non-revenue sport is damaged. Cuse brings nothing to the table in soccer, field hockey, tennis, golf, or baseball (they don't even play baseball). They've gotten really good in women's lacrosse under Gary Gait, but they're still not at the Turtles' level.

Football might be a push long-term, but no better than a push.

Does any Duke fan think he/she will ever loathe Quentin Hillsman the way we loathe Brenda Frese?

Furniture
02-13-2014, 07:01 PM
Thanks for posting Mr.Smith. I enjoyed reading your story!
Good luck to you!

Indoor66
02-13-2014, 07:27 PM
A great post to start this thread. I appreciate any fan who comes to watch basketball, not be a hack partisan. You, sir, seem to well qualify.

roywhite
02-13-2014, 07:39 PM
A great post to start this thread. I appreciate any fan who comes to watch basketball, not be a hack partisan. You, sir, seem to well qualify.

Yeah, agree; Indoor66, or other -- there was a basketball-savvy Terp fan who used to visit the boards regularly, esp. during season, with game commentary and hoops talk. Haven't seen him around lately, and don't recall his name; seemed like a good person and knew his stuff. Can you recall the poster's name?

JPtheGame
02-13-2014, 08:00 PM
Solid post and of course, its easy to appreciate the approach this maryland is taking. Unfortunately, he appears to be an exception and to be honest, I'm more than happy that Maryland is gone. The massive inferiority complex, mistaking attacking Duke as evidence of supporting Maryland, and the fact that once Maryland fans realized Nolan Smith was down and seriously inured they responded with vociferous cheers are all reasons that I say good riddance.

throatybeard
02-13-2014, 09:15 PM
Syracuse doesn't really replace Maryland. Syracuse and Pittsburgh were found money.

If anything, Louisville is replacing Maryland.

Unless we're talking about the autocratic manner in which the ACC dictates who Duke's rivals are at the expense of NC State. I suppose Syracuse is a replacement for Duke's second MBB scheduling partner.

davekay1971
02-13-2014, 09:23 PM
First off, excellent OP and thank you for the nice sentiments. I wish I felt like you do.

I wish I felt more strongly about Maryland leaving the ACC. Until recently, I considered myself an ACC puritan, remembering and missing the ACC from the 1970s and 1980s, when I was a kid, the ACC had 8 teams, the ACC was good, the Big East was evil, and Dean Smith got all the calls. I should hate seeing Maryland leave, just as much as I should consider watching BC playing Syracuse to be a Big East game.

I grew up about fifteen minutes from College Park and, as a kid, Maryland was one of my teams. I'm younger than the OP, but I remember Buck Williams, Albert King, and Greg Manning as childhood heroes. I loved those teams, loved Lefty, and will always remember where I was and what I was doing when I heard that Len Bias died. Even as a Duke student, I always wanted Maryland to do well. I admired Walt Williams for sticking it out, and was pleased to see Gary begin to rebuild the program.

Somewhere along the way, probably in the years following the great Juan Dixon Maryland teams, that fondness for Maryland died. It was partially the ad nauseum recurrence of boorish fan behavior starting in 2001, and partially my own steady movement away from my DC roots. At this point, sadly, I don't love or hate Maryland (either the team, the university, or, frankly, the state). I just don't care much about it.

In thinking about this, I realized that I'm the same way about the Washington Redskins. The Redskins of my youth was Jack Kent Cooke and Joe Gibbs. Heck, I have the pleasure to know Gibbs and there isn't a finer man you'll ever meet. But he's not on the sidelines anymore, and I just can't muster up any feeling for the Dan Snyder version. So now I'm a Panthers fan. Goodbye Maryland/DC, hello North Carolina.

At this point, Maryland doesn't add anything irreplaceable to the ACC or to Duke's season, so replacing them with Louisville is fine. I've gone from holding onto the romantic ideal of the ACC of my youth, and now just have a practical, unromantic desire to see Duke play in the best possible conference. Maryland isn't a bad opponent, and, sporadically over the last 30 years, they've been very good. But they just aren't good enough often enough to be worth missing.

Duvall
02-13-2014, 09:42 PM
Syracuse doesn't really replace Maryland. Syracuse and Pittsburgh were found money.

If anything, Louisville is replacing Maryland.

Unless we're talking about the autocratic manner in which the ACC dictates who Duke's rivals are at the expense of NC State. I suppose Syracuse is a replacement for Duke's second MBB scheduling partner.

Wake is Duke's second scheduling partner in men's basketball, at least until the league goes to a nineteen-and-a-half game schedule or some other screwy approach.

Kimist
02-13-2014, 09:44 PM
A very classy post from Mr. Smith. Perhaps he even is a member of the "silent majority" of Maryland fans and appreciates good college competition as much as the rest of us.

I have many fond memories of (most of) the Maryland games in Cameron. Even Duke-graduate coach Lefty Driesell was good for the game. I remember many of the Crazies donning skull caps, and even a poster with his face/bald head resembling a gas gauge.....which was plainly pegged below empty. Lefty even enjoyed most of the ribbing he received. I think perhaps "Sweaty" got into at times, although he was a bit more capable of blowing a fuse, to include being ejected from one game.

For several seasons, the seats adjacent to my own were often filled by "outsiders" who had bought the seats through whatever means. (I think the owners were perhaps followers of that team down the road?) The vast majority of the visitors had never been to Cameron, and we always had some wonderful conversations. Every now and then, fans of the worthy opponent filled the seats. Sure, some gentle ribbing was always included....both directions....but the overall environment was always good.

The ACC has grown, and to a large extent to feed the money machine. Many traditional rivalries have now been weakened (no more home and home) and others have become history.

Heck, I remember when another "Carolina" team from Columbia, SC was atop the ACC basketball heap. Flashback....I still can envision John Roche standing near midcourt...going nowhere. :eek:

Oh well...bring on Syracuse and Notre Dame, I guess. . .

k

roywhite
02-13-2014, 10:11 PM
Yeah, agree; Indoor66, or other -- there was a basketball-savvy Terp fan who used to visit the boards regularly, esp. during season, with game commentary and hoops talk. Haven't seen him around lately, and don't recall his name; seemed like a good person and knew his stuff. Can you recall the poster's name?

gw67 is who I was trying to recall.

Hasn't posted in over a year; hope he's doing okay; he seemed to be our best resource for reasonable commentary on Maryland basketball.

gotoguy
02-13-2014, 10:43 PM
gw67 is who I was trying to recall.

Hasn't posted in over a year; hope he's doing okay; he seemed to be our best resource for reasonable commentary on Maryland basketball.

Now retired Gary Williams, who played his last basketball in College Park for Bud Millikan in '67, probably has developed other interests besides posting on an opponent's hoops board.:)

CameronBlue
02-14-2014, 12:52 AM
Thanks for the post Ray, well-stated. As something of a traditionalist the loss of a charter member just feels wrong to me. From its inception the ACC was a power but the conference's reputation as the preeminent force in CBB was firmly established in the early 70s, thanks in no small measure to the great Maryland teams of McMillan, Elmore and Lucas. While Duke basketball was at its nadir, up in College Park, Lefty part side-show huckster, part marketing genius, out-recruited Dean for Rhodes Scholar and future US congressman Tom McMillan and rolled out his new creation: Maryland basketball "The UCLA of the East". To an adolescent already sick of UNC's dominance I loved it. When consecutive January 73 basketball polls slotted NCState, Maryland and Carolina as the numbers 2, 3 and 4 teams in the country the buzz spread nationally and the ascendancy of ACC basketball was complete.

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/seasons.cfm?appollid=344

Lefty, the epic battles with NC State, the national title of course...you can take a lot of pride in knowing that Maryland contributed mightily to the ACC brand. Like a good marriage gone horribly wrong it's sad that the relationship is ending with litigation. I haven't kept up with press accounts or have an opinion on which party is more aggrieved but if it was me I'd just say you take the cat and we'll keep the Miles Davis albums. There will be a void when Maryland finally departs. It will be filled eventually, but it will take time.

The moment of Maryland basketball I'll remember over all others: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KdFhvX8Xaw

SirBlueDevil
02-14-2014, 06:55 AM
I'll be the first to admit i've found terp fans to be both bottom of the barrel and ignorant when it came to recognizing when the better team beat you that night.

You Mr. Smith most certainly do not belong in that category, as a duke fan i appreciate and respect what you posted and although i honestly can't say i'll miss our match ups. I do wish terp fans such as yourself good luck in your new confrence and with whomever ends up being your new and most avid rival as the tar heels are to my blue devils.

Go Duke Blue!

revmel53
02-14-2014, 07:36 AM
A classy response from a classy Turtle. Maryland did bring a lot of emotion to the table, even when its teams weren't of the caliber of UNC. My only experience at College Park was a visit while in grad school at Duke. A friend and I got seats in the Md student section, and were threatened with every word out of Md fans' mouths. The only thing that saved us was that I was still bandaged from nose surgery. While Duke students/fans are loud and boisterous, my experience is that they don't take it to the level of vulgarity and personal threats. That's probably it, actually. In Cameron, it's our team versus yours... not a personal "I'll beat the blank out of you..." We will miss Maryland across the board, but in the sports that count, the ACC will be stronger, IMO. Let's go Devils! Big week ahead...

SirBlueDevil
02-14-2014, 07:38 AM
A long look at Duke and Maryland in a bigger context!

It's been an uncomfortable marriage for Duke because it's a game that usually means MUCH more to Maryland especially their fan base - than to Duke. The Terps play Duke and "they riot and burn cars". The Devils play Maryland and the Crazies chant, "Not our rivals."

I do know that there are some happy to see Maryland go because the Terps have the worst fan base in the ACC - Comcast has been a hotbed of organized profanity and a dangerous place for visiting fans!

Bottom line, classless and worthless to the very end!

budwom
02-14-2014, 08:05 AM
I wish them the very best as they play rivals in the future like Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, should be some wonderful (long) winter trips....in a conference that could not possibly care less about them.

The rare move in which the team moving, Merlin, has a majority of fans who don't want to go, and their new conference has a majority of fans who have no use for them. Sounds perfect to me.

p.s. throw stuff at Nebraska fans and they will bury you in cattle carcasses...

howardlander
02-14-2014, 08:24 AM
A classy response from a classy Turtle. Maryland did bring a lot of emotion to the table, even when its teams weren't of the caliber of UNC. My only experience at College Park was a visit while in grad school at Duke. A friend and I got seats in the Md student section, and were threatened with every word out of Md fans' mouths. The only thing that saved us was that I was still bandaged from nose surgery. While Duke students/fans are loud and boisterous, my experience is that they don't take it to the level of vulgarity and personal threats. That's probably it, actually. In Cameron, it's our team versus yours... not a personal "I'll beat the blank out of you..." .

I think this is exactly the issue that causes myself and so many others to be glad Maryland is leaving the ACC. Sports, particularly college sports, are supposed to be fun and entertaining, at least for the fans. There seems to be a real psycho-drama being played out in the heads of some of the Maryland fans that causes them to act out in ways that I consider well beyond what is acceptable. What's worse, the Maryland administration seemed, at times, unable to recognize this and unwilling to stop it. I always liked Gary Williams and Mark Turgeon seems like a decent guy to me, but miss Maryland? That's like asking me if I miss diverticulitis.

Howard

Reilly
02-14-2014, 09:21 AM
The woman mentioned in the original post -- the Duke fan going to games in Cameron for 40 years -- could someone check in on her to see if she has any head wounds and if she still has a couch?

jv001
02-14-2014, 10:25 AM
First off, excellent OP and thank you for the nice sentiments. I wish I felt like you do.

I wish I felt more strongly about Maryland leaving the ACC. Until recently, I considered myself an ACC puritan, remembering and missing the ACC from the 1970s and 1980s, when I was a kid, the ACC had 8 teams, the ACC was good, the Big East was evil, and Dean Smith got all the calls. I should hate seeing Maryland leave, just as much as I should consider watching BC playing Syracuse to be a Big East game.

I grew up about fifteen minutes from College Park and, as a kid, Maryland was one of my teams. I'm younger than the OP, but I remember Buck Williams, Albert King, and Greg Manning as childhood heroes. I loved those teams, loved Lefty, and will always remember where I was and what I was doing when I heard that Len Bias died. Even as a Duke student, I always wanted Maryland to do well. I admired Walt Williams for sticking it out, and was pleased to see Gary begin to rebuild the program.

Somewhere along the way, probably in the years following the great Juan Dixon Maryland teams, that fondness for Maryland died. It was partially the ad nauseum recurrence of boorish fan behavior starting in 2001, and partially my own steady movement away from my DC roots. In thinking about this, I realized that I'm the same way about the Washington Redskins. The Redskins of my youth was Jack Kent Cooke and Joe Gibbs. Heck, I have the pleasure to know Gibbs and there isn't a finer man you'll ever meet. But he's not on the sidelines anymore, and I just can't muster up any feeling for the Dan Snyder version. So now I'm a Panthers fan. [/B] Goodbye Maryland/DC, hello North Carolina.

At this point, Maryland doesn't add anything irreplaceable to the ACC or to Duke's season, so replacing them with Louisville is fine. I've gone from holding onto the romantic ideal of the ACC of my youth, and now just have a practical, unromantic desire to see Duke play in the best possible conference. Maryland isn't a bad opponent, and, sporadically over the last 30 years, they've been very good. But they just aren't good enough often enough to be worth missing.

davekay1971, although I've never lived in Maryland, you have pretty much summoned up my feelings on several fronts. I liked the Maryland players you named. You also answered a question I had about when the terp fans began to change in their behavior. I too was a Redskins fan back to the Eddie Lebaron days. Plus I love Joe Gibbs. What a good (redacted) man. But I have lost interest since Dan Snyder became owner and I now root for the Panthers and any Duke player on an NFL roster. I don't have one thing bad to say about the Maryland players. Matter of fact I liked Juan Dixon. He was a terrific basketball player. He would have been a good Duke Blue Devil. But when it comes to their fans, it's a different thing. They are worst than unc fans. Well maybe not. I am really not concerned one way or the other about the Terps leaving the ACC. The ACC is not the same ACC I grew up watching. GoDuke!

rsvman
02-14-2014, 10:42 AM
Growing up in the Rocky Mountains, I didn't have much exposure to the great Maryland teams of the past, although I distinctly remember watching some of their games; Lefty was certainly a well-known figure to anybody who paid any attention at all to college basketball.

I became a Duke fan in 1997, when I took a job at Duke, practicing pediatric infectious diseases and teaching a few classes at the medical school. In the time since then, I respected Juan Dixon and was impressed with many of their other players, but on the whole haven't had many fond thoughts of Maryland in general, to put it mildly.

Gary Williams was a great coach who had a habit of yelling at the players on the bench when the players on the floor did something wrong. The fans in College Park threw things at the parents of our players, for crying out loud, famously hitting Carlos Boozer's mom on the head with a bottled water. They did organized cheers that forced me to mute the television because I had young sons watching the games with me. The coach and administration stood idly by. "Silence implies consent."

As if that weren't enough, they took the streets with vandalism, win or lose, on multiple occasions.


I enjoyed beating Maryland over the years, and hated losing to them (two games in particular, stand out: one was the ACC championship game where we blew a large lead over the final 4 minutes or so, and one was the 2010 game when Vasquez made a circus shot to win in the waning seconds). I was certainly happy that we won the vast majority of those games.

I have to say, though, that in the end I am not sad to see them go. (The OP was great, and he seems like a really nice guy. I'm sure there are a lot more Maryland fans just like him; it's sad that the good fans are so overshadowed by the obnoxious fan base that we should be surprised that one of them is nice, as we would at finding a diamond in a pile of manure.)

SirBlueDevil
02-14-2014, 10:55 AM
"p.s. throw stuff at Nebraska fans and they will bury you in cattle carcasses"

Budwom, this statement was LMAO hilarious and right on point!

gw67
02-14-2014, 11:00 AM
gw67 is who I was trying to recall.

Hasn't posted in over a year; hope he's doing okay; he seemed to be our best resource for reasonable commentary on Maryland basketball.

Roy,

You are correct that I haven't posted in over a year. In fact, I haven't visited the DBR forum for nearly a year. I was very ill for most of 2013 (brain infection) Since I have recently been given a clean bill of health, I hope to visit the forum on a regular basis in the future.

I am a fan of both teams and hope that both do well the rest of year although I don't see the Terps offering much opposition tomorrow. They don't have an inside game and aren't a good shooting team.

Like many others, I am not happy with the move to the Big Ten and I will miss their games vs ACC opponents.

gw67

jv001
02-14-2014, 11:02 AM
Roy,

You are correct that I haven't posted in over a year. In fact, I haven't visited the DBR forum for nearly a year. I was very ill for most of 2013 (brain infection) Since I have recently been given a clean bill of health, I hope to visit the forum on a regular basis in the future.

I am a fan of both teams and hope that both do well the rest of year although I don't see the Terps offering much opposition tomorrow. They don't have an inside game and aren't a good shooting team.

Like many others, I am not happy with the move to the Big Ten and I will miss their games vs ACC opponents.

gw67

Glad to hear you received a clean bill of health. I hope you're correct on your assessment of the Terps. God bless and hope to see you post more often. GoDuke!

The Gordog
02-14-2014, 11:38 AM
Trading Maryland for Cuse improves the quality of ACC competition in exactly two sports: men's basketball and men's lacrosse. Every other high-profile non-revenue sport is damaged. Cuse brings nothing to the table in soccer, field hockey, tennis, golf, or baseball (they don't even play baseball). They've gotten really good in women's lacrosse under Gary Gait, but they're still not at the Turtles' level.

Football might be a push long-term, but no better than a push.

Does any Duke fan think he/she will ever loathe Quentin Hillsman the way we loathe Brenda Frese?

Syracuse was coming regardless of MD leaving. We get Louisville next year in exchange for the Terps. That is an overall upgrade in sports but a downgrade in academics (as if any of the decision makers care about that!)

Lauderdevil
02-14-2014, 12:23 PM
I always liked the Maryland teams and players. There have been some great ones, as Al Featherston notes on the main board and plenty of folks have noted here. There have been some classic coaches, with Lefty at the top of the list but Gary not too far behind. I'll miss the Maryland team.

What I won't miss is the Maryland fans, and that fact is enough to make me glad to see Maryland go. I've spent plenty of time in the state of Maryland over the years, and it's populated by normal, pleasant, law-abiding people in about the same ratio as anywhere else. You'd never predict they'd become thugs in the arena. Yet I've been following Duke basketball since the late '70s and it's always been the case. Back then, when we Cameron Crazies (before that term existed) started getting a little over-the-top, "Uncle Terry" Sanford, then Duke's president, demonstrated real leadership and reined in the verging-on-boorish student body, using humor and pride to goad the students into better behavior. The arc of the two fan bases went in different directions after that: Duke got funnier, classier, and if anything louder; Maryland got uglier, more violent, and more profane. Duke's leaders showed leadership. Maryland's never have -- and that failure has caused a decades-long blot on the image of the university. Ciao, Maryland.

killerleft
02-14-2014, 12:25 PM
gw67 is who I was trying to recall.

Hasn't posted in over a year; hope he's doing okay; he seemed to be our best resource for reasonable commentary on Maryland basketball.

Another MD poster, no posts this year, is just wondering. Maybe he doesn't wonder anymore?

Matches
02-14-2014, 12:58 PM
I feel bad for a lot of the Maryland hoops greats - not Elmore but the rest of them - who are going from being legends at the ACCT to being anonymous strangers in Big 10 lore. I was at the ACC Football Championship Game, and at halftime they were honoring "ACC Legends" - one from each school - and half those guys never played in the ACC. I had no clue who most of them were and I suspect most around me didn't either.

The Maryland legends - esp. the older guys - are headed for similar treatment in the Big 10, because of a decision in which they played no part. Something about that is really sad.

greybeard
02-14-2014, 01:07 PM
First off, I share the disgust for relatively recent, if you're as old as I am, misbehaviors by Maryland fans, and think it a good thing that they are leaving.

That said, Duke-Maryland has produced some great basketball.

If the Crazies, et. al., greet and say goodbye to Maryland as one would expect, we hear nothing about this game, nada.

HOWEVER, FIRST PAGE, LEAD-IN ON ESPN, IF when Maryland takes the floor, standing ovation; the same as they leave. The crazies can lead, if others join, as is probable, fine. In between, it's a ball game, right?

Something to think about.

Kimist
02-14-2014, 01:25 PM
First off, I share the disgust for relatively recent, if you're as old as I am, misbehaviors by Maryland fans, and think it a good thing that they are leaving.

That said, Duke-Maryland has produced some great basketball.

If the Crazies, et. al., greet and say goodbye to Maryland as one would expect, we hear nothing about this game, nada.

HOWEVER, FIRST PAGE, LEAD-IN ON ESPN, IF when Maryland takes the floor, standing ovation; the same as they leave. The crazies can lead, if others join, as is probable, fine. In between, it's a ball game, right?

Something to think about.

Of course, I could also foresee a memorable situation where (with a little pre-planning among the entire CIS crowd) the universe's loudest " See ya !! " reverberated when the game clock reached 00:00 !!

k

ricks68
02-14-2014, 01:41 PM
Of course, I could also foresee a memorable situation where (with a little pre-planning among the entire CIS crowd) the universe's loudest " See ya !! " reverberated when the game clock reached 00:00 !!

k

I think a combination of what both you and Greybeard propose is the absolute way to go: A very, very long standing ovation at the beginning of the game and a big long traditional arm and hand rotating back and forth motion See Ya! at the end.

Wish I could be there for it.

ricks

-jk
02-14-2014, 03:22 PM
I think a combination of what both you and Greybeard propose is the absolute way to go: A very, very long standing ovation at the beginning of the game and a big long traditional arm and hand rotating back and forth motion See Ya! at the end.

Wish I could be there for it.

ricks

Perhaps an "Amen" chorus, for old time's sake.

-jk

OldPhiKap
02-14-2014, 05:46 PM
During my years at Duke, I do not think I ever witnessed a player better then Len Bias. Or a "visiting" coach more entertaining than Lefty (and this was while Valvano, Cremins, and Dean were active). Besides the "in-Hale ex-Hale game" against UNC, two of my favorite memories of ACC hoops at Duke were (1) Bias' senior performance at Duke, when he got a standing ovation after fouling out with 40+ point in Cameron IIRC; and (2) Bias singlehandedly beating UNC in Chapel Hill the week before, which we needed to catch the Heels for the regular season "championship." (And when Len lit Duke up, it was without a three-point shot and against the undisputed best defense in the country that year).

I have loved many of the Maryland players over the years. Too many to list, really.

Always had a ton of respect for Maryland. Until things turned so ugly the last dozen years or so. Without going into where the blame lies, it really soured me on Maryland. To the point where I am frankly glad to see them go.

To the Maryland posters we have had over the years, I wish you personal happiness. For myself I hope that time accentuates the great part of our battles and diminishes the recent unpleasantness.

For the Maryland administration, I hope you get your butt whipped in each and every sport, hemorrhage money, and rue the day you left a good thing for a paradise that does not exist. Good luck playing Wisconsin or whoever the heck is in the Big## in January. Good luck getting folks in Indiana or Michigan to give a flip about you.

To end on a positive note, I thank the OP and hope our Maryland poster friends stay engaged at DBR. There are many positive things about UMd. The boil-your-bunny inferiority complex some (not all) exhibit is welcome to get out and stay out.

Indoor66
02-14-2014, 06:23 PM
Yeah, agree; Indoor66, or other -- there was a basketball-savvy Terp fan who used to visit the boards regularly, esp. during season, with game commentary and hoops talk. Haven't seen him around lately, and don't recall his name; seemed like a good person and knew his stuff. Can you recall the poster's name?

I don't recall.

Indoor66
02-14-2014, 06:30 PM
Perhaps an "Amen" chorus, for old time's sake.

-jk

That "Amen" chorus was a Maryland mainstay back in the 60's and 70's.

DU82
02-14-2014, 07:27 PM
In 1987, Bob Wade's first team came to Cameron. Given what had happened over the spring and summer, each road game was torture, with perhaps the worst verbal taunting happening at ODU a few weeks earlier.

So, in anticipation of the absolute worst road game on the schedule, given the supposed reputation of the Cameron Crazies (I think that term was in use by that point) the George Michael Sports Machine, perhaps the most prominent national sports show, sent a crew to Duke to do a story.

What happened was that Bob Wade, in his press conference after the game (a close loss) said that by far it was the best treatment by an opposing crowd they'd experienced all year. No (organized) chants about Len Bias or Lefty, just about the game in progress. The TV crew left, disappointed that they didn't get the story that they came for, and of course, since they couldn't script it the way they wanted, didn't do a story for the show for the next day.

(BTW, two weeks or so before the Herman Veal game in 1984, the crowd at ODU had to be maced (the security coincidentally getting some of the visiting players as well.) Of course, the WaPost decided to concentrate on Duke's "Majoring in Smart---" instead.)

greybeard
02-14-2014, 08:34 PM
I think a combination of what both you and Greybeard propose is the absolute way to go: A very, very long standing ovation at the beginning of the game and a big long traditional arm and hand rotating back and forth motion See Ya! at the end.

Wish I could be there for it.

ricks

Hey, that would work. When I think about it, an ovation on both ends would bore. This, this is a stroke of genius.

OldPhiKap
02-14-2014, 08:44 PM
Hey, that would work. When I think about it, an ovation on both ends would bore. This, this is a stroke of genius.

It would be ironic (and hilarious) if the best ACC road reception Marylnd got this year was at Duke.

throatybeard
02-14-2014, 09:09 PM
It would be ironic (and hilarious) if the best ACC road reception Marylnd got this year was at Duke.

Judging from twitter and t-shirts for sale, Carolina has already given us the snottiest, nastiest road reception in the ACC this year, because of the snow thing.

Newton_14
02-14-2014, 11:19 PM
Judging from twitter and t-shirts for sale, Carolina has already given us the snottiest, nastiest road reception in the ACC this year, because of the snow thing.
I received a taunting email from a UNC alum just this afternoon with a link to buy one of the shirts. It is all the rage here. The local unc faithful have convinced themselves Duke was scared to play since the nosedome was going to be full of just students. Even their so called "media" "journalists" (Adam Lucas/Jones Angel) have had several tweets to that effect. (yes Moonpie I swore not to seek out and read that junk, but it became impossible to not see it short of cutting off the computer)

Yeah, we will go with that. Duke was scared.

Never mind every single road in Durham and Chapel Hill was gridlocked with wrecks, abandoned cars, every lane bumper to bumper and not moving. The charter bus actually never even made it to Duke. It could not get there.

Short of walking or renting 30 ATV's for each player and staff to drive, they were not going to get there prior to the tip time. As for "leaving earlier" despite the forecast, there was no reason to expect that the roads would be totally impassable at 3pm. That was unexpected.

In less words, screw every single unc person who believes this nonsense, especially Adam Lucas and Jones Angel. I hope we run them by 30 next Thursday Night.

throatybeard
02-15-2014, 12:18 AM
I received a taunting email from a UNC alum just this afternoon with a link to buy one of the shirts. It is all the rage here. The local unc faithful have convinced themselves Duke was scared to play since the nosedome was going to be full of just students. Even their so called "media" "journalists" (Adam Lucas/Jones Angel) have had several tweets to that effect. (yes Moonpie I swore not to seek out and read that junk, but it became impossible to not see it short of cutting off the computer)

Yeah, we will go with that. Duke was scared.

Never mind every single road in Durham and Chapel Hill was gridlocked with wrecks, abandoned cars, every lane bumper to bumper and not moving. The charter bus actually never even made it to Duke. It could not get there.

Short of walking or renting 30 ATV's for each player and staff to drive, they were not going to get there prior to the tip time. As for "leaving earlier" despite the forecast, there was no reason to expect that the roads would be totally impassable at 3pm. That was unexpected.

In less words, screw every single unc person who believes this nonsense, especially Adam Lucas and Jones Angel. I hope we run them by 30 next Thursday Night.

Dude, I'm fighting this fight on facebook right now. It's a losing battle, of course, because facts don't matter to our foes. Or most people in general.

I need to just get off the internet. So many nasty people love getting a rise out of the likes of you and me. Seriously, if I quit posting on any sports board, and de-friended all UNC alums except my own wife (oops yes there was an MAT), my father, and my gradskool office mate, it would probably lengthen my life by five or ten years.

I'm kind of at the end of my rope with sports. All they seem to do is give the worst among us to be really nasty to others.

OldPhiKap
02-15-2014, 08:18 AM
Judging from twitter and t-shirts for sale, Carolina has already given us the snottiest, nastiest road reception in the ACC this year, because of the snow thing.

Well, they can just go to Hell then


I'm not suret hat calling our players "chicken" is the best pre-game strategy, but Holes will be Holes.

Olympic Fan
02-15-2014, 11:51 AM
Reading this thread has made me re-think my feelings about the reception Maryland should get.

Let me be clear -- I have nothing but contempt for the school's administration, which behaved dishonestly and deceitfully in leaving the ACC. I think Maryland has the worst fan base in the ACC -- obviously, that doesn't include every Maryland fan, but as a group they are violent, abusive and obscene.

But I have no problem with Mark Turgeon or the current Maryland team. THEY didn't decide to sneak out of the ACC one night. I have heard that Turgeon, for one, is very unhappy with the move.

They don't deserve the abuse that we should save for the Terp administration and for their fans.

So the more I think about it, Duke should treat the Maryland coaches and players with respect today. I don't think we need to taunt them.

I'll be joining the standing ovation group.

Indoor66
02-15-2014, 11:57 AM
Reading this thread has made me re-think my feelings about the reception Maryland should get.

Let me be clear -- I have nothing but contempt for the school's administration, which behaved dishonestly and deceitfully in leaving the ACC. I think Maryland has the worst fan base in the ACC -- obviously, that doesn't include every Maryland fan, but as a group they are violent, abusive and obscene.

But I have no problem with Mark Turgeon or the current Maryland team. THEY didn't decide to sneak out of the ACC one night. I have heard that Turgeon, for one, is very unhappy with the move.

They don't deserve the abuse that we should save for the Terp administration and for their fans.

So the more I think about it, Duke should treat the Maryland coaches and players with respect today. I don't think we need to taunt them.

I'll be joining the standing ovation group.

I agree with you. It is childish to take it out on the current players and coach. Just applaud them and let it be.

throatybeard
02-15-2014, 01:10 PM
They don't deserve the abuse that we should save for the Terp administration and for their fans.

I don't think we should abuse anyone.

Wander
02-15-2014, 01:34 PM
I don't think we should abuse anyone.

How exactly would we "abuse" the administration of the University of Maryland anyway?

devildeac
02-15-2014, 01:50 PM
I don't think we should abuse anyone.


How exactly would we "abuse" the administration of the University of Maryland anyway?

This would be a good way to start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSo0duY7-9s

cspan37421
02-15-2014, 05:03 PM
Dude, I'm fighting this fight on facebook right now. It's a losing battle, of course, because facts don't matter to our foes. Or most people in general.

I need to just get off the internet. So many nasty people love getting a rise out of the likes of you and me. Seriously, if I quit posting on any sports board, and de-friended all UNC alums except my own wife (oops yes there was an MAT), my father, and my gradskool office mate, it would probably lengthen my life by five or ten years.

I'm kind of at the end of my rope with sports. All they seem to do is give the worst among us to be really nasty to others.

Three things, two to remember, one to ponder:

1) Remember: the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

2) Ponder: Internet trolls have a mixture of narcissism, sadism, and psychopathy. See: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_ narcissism_psychopathy.html

3) Remember: you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into.

duke80
02-15-2014, 05:37 PM
Three things, two to remember, one to ponder:

1) Remember: the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

2) Ponder: Internet trolls have a mixture of narcissism, sadism, and psychopathy. See: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_ narcissism_psychopathy.html

3) Remember: you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into.

UNC = University of Negligent Conspiracies. I'm sure someone could come up with something better.

UNC's hate and delusion is annoying but enough over the top that it is becoming easier to ignore.
My wife in her infinite wisdom often says, "You can't understand insanity, and the best revenge is a good life."

Above all else the rivalry is alive and well and in fact may be heating up now that UNC is starting to lose to us
on a much more regular basis. Tell your UNC 'friends' that you understand that it must really hurt to lose so often
to a team clearly inferior to them.

This will just have to get settled on the court. What they are not saying is that they expect to kick our butts,
because by now everyone agrees with them that they are tougher than us. We will see.

sadterp
02-16-2014, 02:56 PM
I'm also a Maryland fan, and I will also miss Duke basketball. There are
a lot of us who aren't happy to be leaving the ACC. I'm visiting your forum - temporarily - to pay my respects.

For what it's worth, I've always respected Duke. Coach K runs the
basketball program the right way. I appreciate that Duke is always
competitive and that there's never even a whiff of a scandal from
Durham. Duke kids really are student-athletes. I've even been known to
root for Duke on occasion - the best basketball game I've ever seen was
the 1991 Duke-UNLV tournament game. The play where Bobby Hurley passed
over his back as he was running out of bounds to a trailing Christian
Laettner for a fast break dunk will forever be etched in my memory. Duke
won me the office pool that year.

I grew up in outside of Charlottesville, Virginia, watching ACC
basketball (Ralph Sampson! Michael Jordan! Len Bias!). I miss the 8-team
league. I did my undergraduate work Out West, and I chose to come back
east and go to graduate school at Maryland in no small part because,
although the basketball team stank at the time - it was just coming off
probation, thanks to Bob Wade - I knew I'd at least get to see some
great teams visit Cole. And I did. I also, very unexpectedly, got to see
some great Maryland teams play them. I was there when Joe Smith came out
of nowhere to win the Naismith Award, and I was still there when Greivis
Vasquez hit that insane floater.

The thought of never playing Duke again, or for that matter State or
Wake or Tech, saddens me. You might not consider us your rivals, but you
were ours. Duke gave us something to aim for, you see.

Farewell.

jv001
02-16-2014, 03:01 PM
I'm also a Maryland fan, and I will also miss Duke basketball. There are
a lot of us who aren't happy to be leaving the ACC. I'm visiting your forum - temporarily - to pay my respects.

For what it's worth, I've always respected Duke. Coach K runs the
basketball program the right way. I appreciate that Duke is always
competitive and that there's never even a whiff of a scandal from
Durham. Duke kids really are student-athletes. I've even been known to
root for Duke on occasion - the best basketball game I've ever seen was
the 1991 Duke-UNLV tournament game. The play where Bobby Hurley passed
over his back as he was running out of bounds to a trailing Christian
Laettner for a fast break dunk will forever be etched in my memory. Duke
won me the office pool that year.

I grew up in outside of Charlottesville, Virginia, watching ACC
basketball (Ralph Sampson! Michael Jordan! Len Bias!). I miss the 8-team
league. I did my undergraduate work Out West, and I chose to come back
east and go to graduate school at Maryland in no small part because,
although the basketball team stank at the time - it was just coming off
probation, thanks to Bob Wade - I knew I'd at least get to see some
great teams visit Cole. And I did. I also, very unexpectedly, got to see
some great Maryland teams play them. I was there when Joe Smith came out
of nowhere to win the Naismith Award, and I was still there when Greivis
Vasquez hit that insane floater.

The thought of never playing Duke again, or for that matter State or
Wake or Tech, saddens me. You might not consider us your rivals, but you
were ours. Duke gave us something to aim for, you see.

Farewell.

Thanks for the post and I wish you success in rooting for the Terps. Juan Dixon is still my favorite Maryland player. God bless and post when you can. GoDuke!

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-16-2014, 03:51 PM
Thanks for the post and I wish you success in rooting for the Terps. Juan Dixon is still my favorite Maryland player. God bless and post when you can. GoDuke!

Gosh! and bless your heart. We don't get much love outside the walls of the Gothic Wonderland -- even in Derm. We just have to be content with knowing we're striving very hard to do it right no matter what others say about us. So it's absolutely wonderful to hear these things unsolicited. We won't miss the rank and file Maryland fan or Gary. But we will very much miss people like you. Don't be a stranger. Bless your heart again.
Love, Ima

gep
02-16-2014, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the post and I wish you success in rooting for the Terps. Juan Dixon is still my favorite Maryland player. God bless and post when you can. GoDuke!

I really like Juan Dixon too. Anyone notice that during the post-game handshakes, Coach K gave Juan a nice hug. I thought that was just cool, after all they've been through as competitors.:cool:

OldPhiKap
02-16-2014, 05:36 PM
I really like Juan Dixon too. Anyone notice that during the post-game handshakes, Coach K gave Juan a nice hug. I thought that was just cool, after all they've been through as competitors.:cool:

Not sure if you watched K's post-game presser (GoDuke is always worth watching) but K said that Jaun was one his five favorite players ever. (Non-Duke I assume was intended).

As I said up thread, there are plenty of great things about Md basketball And I have great memories of the games, coaches and players over three-plus decades. It got way dark since 2001, though, to the point it is best they go their own way.

77devil
02-16-2014, 06:11 PM
Not sure if you watched K's post-game presser (GoDuke is always worth watching) but K said that Jaun was one his five favorite players ever. (Non-Duke I assume was intended).

As I said up thread, there are plenty of great things about Md basketball And I have great memories of the games, coaches and players over three-plus decades. It got way dark since 2001, though, to the point it is best they go their own way.

My first MD game in CIS was the Gary Melchionni beat down in 1973, and I was in the first group to wear skull caps behind the MD bench harassing Lefty(with Phi Kappa Cocktail friends). I played tennis with John Lucas and knew of Mo Howard from Philly. (He played on the second best team in the city in 1972 behind my Alma mater). It is sad that one of the founding members of the ACC is leaving, but in retrospect, MD had an inferiority complex even back in the day. It got worse after Len Bias died. The nostalgia in me wishes MD was staying, on the other hand, it will get what it deserves as a nomad in the Big whatever.

sadterp
02-16-2014, 06:22 PM
It is sad that one of the founding members of the ACC is leaving, but in retrospect, MD had an inferiority complex even back in the day.

I would not call it an inferiority complex, but it is certainly true that Maryland has felt like an outsider in the ACC for a long time. The reasons for that are complex, and discussing them here would probably generate more heat than light.

Newton_14
02-16-2014, 06:26 PM
I'm also a Maryland fan, and I will also miss Duke basketball. There are
a lot of us who aren't happy to be leaving the ACC. I'm visiting your forum - temporarily - to pay my respects.

For what it's worth, I've always respected Duke. Coach K runs the
basketball program the right way. I appreciate that Duke is always
competitive and that there's never even a whiff of a scandal from
Durham. Duke kids really are student-athletes. I've even been known to
root for Duke on occasion - the best basketball game I've ever seen was
the 1991 Duke-UNLV tournament game. The play where Bobby Hurley passed
over his back as he was running out of bounds to a trailing Christian
Laettner for a fast break dunk will forever be etched in my memory. Duke
won me the office pool that year.

I grew up in outside of Charlottesville, Virginia, watching ACC
basketball (Ralph Sampson! Michael Jordan! Len Bias!). I miss the 8-team
league. I did my undergraduate work Out West, and I chose to come back
east and go to graduate school at Maryland in no small part because,
although the basketball team stank at the time - it was just coming off
probation, thanks to Bob Wade - I knew I'd at least get to see some
great teams visit Cole. And I did. I also, very unexpectedly, got to see
some great Maryland teams play them. I was there when Joe Smith came out
of nowhere to win the Naismith Award, and I was still there when Greivis
Vasquez hit that insane floater.

The thought of never playing Duke again, or for that matter State or
Wake or Tech, saddens me. You might not consider us your rivals, but you
were ours. Duke gave us something to aim for, you see.

Farewell.

Great post and thanks for coming on to share it. Please do come back and become a regular. We greatly appreciate opposing fans who are regular posting members here. It gives us checks and balances and keeps us up to date on what other teams are doing/going through as well as unbiased opinions on how well or not our current Devils are looking to others.

Walking out from Cameron last night i had the great privilege to walk and talk with 4 or 5 male Maryland fans in their 20's that had driven down from the game. Nothing but respect from all. We talked about everything from how the game went, to their thoughts on moving to the Big X. Most were sad to leave but all felt they could make it work in the new conference. It was great, polite, respectful conversation... like it should be. So yes Virginia, there are decent human beings that are also Maryland fans. A large faction of terrible Maryland fans exist for sure, but we all need to remember that there are Maryland fans that don't curse louldy on TV, throw bottles at our players mom's, harass our fans walking out of the Comcast Center, or riot. They do exist and it's really not fair to lump them in with the zealots. For that part of the fanbase, i do feel sympathy with the breakup.

OldPhiKap
02-16-2014, 07:29 PM
My first MD game in CIS was the Gary Melchionni beat down in 1973, and I was in the first group to wear skull caps behind the MD bench harassing Lefty(with Phi Kappa Cocktail friends). I played tennis with John Lucas and knew of Mo Howard from Philly. (He played on the second best team in the city in 1972 behind my Alma mater). It is sad that one of the founding members of the ACC is leaving, but in retrospect, MD had an inferiority complex even back in the day. It got worse after Len Bias died. The nostalgia in me wishes MD was staying, on the other hand, it will get what it deserves as a nomad in the Big whatever.

Lefty said that if he won the conference championship, he would bolt the trophy to the hood of his car and drive around The Triangle!

Love that Lefty came to so many Duke games after leaving Maryland. Hope he still makes some.

nyesq83
02-16-2014, 08:41 PM
Maryland thought the ACC was NC-centric. Mostly true.

Maryland's new league will be less inviting.

OldPhiKap
02-16-2014, 08:45 PM
Maryland thought the ACC was NC-centric. Mostly true.

Maryland's new league will be less inviting.

When do they harvest wheat in Maryland?

mph
02-16-2014, 08:50 PM
This would be a good way to start:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSo0duY7-9s

Alas, it appears Maryland Terrapins are migratory.

nyesq83
02-16-2014, 09:46 PM
When do they harvest wheat in Maryland?

By September. Maryland has a winter wheat crop.