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bwl5
02-11-2014, 08:59 AM
There is an article up on the Fayetteville Observer website that was sparked by the recent Marcus Smart incident.
http://www.fayobserver.com/sports/article_7e9bedf4-0616-5c1f-a922-444284f539be.html

In the article Coach K is referenced as admitting "Cameron Indoor Stadium was the site for some "bad situations" when Duke students sat behind the visiting bench in the 1980s." Based on my recollections during the early 80's, I don't recall any really "bad situations" resulting from that practice. Other than the pizza box incident, which was all of Cameron, the only situations that I can remember are the skinheads and the opponents having to conduct their timeouts on the floor because it was too loud at the visiting bench.

Dev11
02-11-2014, 09:08 AM
I recall a lovely secondhand story about a couple of undergrads who used to sit near the end of the opposing team's bench and would be so kind as to share their spirits from a flask with the opposing team's walk-ons, the guys who knew they couldn't possibly get into the game. I understand that it was a real treat when the unthinkable happened and the lonely benchwarmers got in for a minute or two at the end of the game. Nothing heinous, of course

Rich
02-11-2014, 09:33 AM
There is an article up on the Fayetteville Observer website that was sparked by the recent Marcus Smart incident.
http://www.fayobserver.com/sports/article_7e9bedf4-0616-5c1f-a922-444284f539be.html

In the article Coach K is referenced as admitting "Cameron Indoor Stadium was the site for some "bad situations" when Duke students sat behind the visiting bench in the 1980s." Based on my recollections during the early 80's, I don't recall any really "bad situations" resulting from that practice. Other than the pizza box incident, which was all of Cameron, the only situations that I can remember are the skinheads and the opponents having to conduct their timeouts on the floor because it was too loud at the visiting bench.

Well, that was where the BOGgers sat during my years as an undergrad (1984-88). They were loud and obnoxious (in a good way if you're a Duke fan). I don't recall anything "bad" other than what they might have yelled at the opposing team, particularly when they were trying to meet during a timeout. Maybe some of what they yelled was over the line, but other than that I don't remember anything specific.

Henderson
02-11-2014, 09:43 AM
There was verbally abusive behavior behind the visitor's bench in the early 1980s. And it wasn't all good spirited fun. It got ugly enough that Coach K took action. The problem (IIRC) was that, although the abuse was directed at the opposing players and staff, that's where the visiting players' parents sat. Mom and sis didn't need to hear that stuff about their son or brother, not from so close up. My (admittedly fading) recollection is that one step Coach K took was to seat a buffer row of young female Duke students -- some sort of ambassador group -- between the rowdy fans and the opposing bench. And someone needs to help me with this (it's been too long), but I think eventually that whole section became restricted to keep Duke undergrads away from the opposing bench. What's the seating arrangement there now?

OZZIE4DUKE
02-11-2014, 10:09 AM
In 1975, at the end of the Maryland game in Cameron, Maryland player Jap Trimble stepped on a team seat as he was running by the bench after the game and reached up into the stands and punched a student in the mouth as he ran by. Must have thought it was me..... But it wasn't. GTHc 9F!

HaveFunExpectToWin
02-11-2014, 10:09 AM
In regards to K's point on JJ, I think some of the worst opposing fan behavior that JJ saw wasn't at MD, but at VaTech when his family was in attendance. Didn't they skip the trip to Blacksburg his senior year because the Hokies fans were so awful to him?

DukeAlumBS
02-11-2014, 11:17 AM
We are young college kids, who love their team. I do not recall anything that stood out. Like the beer bottle throwing at Maryland at a players mom. Miami insulted some Duke fans there, this was in the chronicle. Just loud, drunk behavior.
Like me, sitting at home and watching late game. By that time I am through a bottle of JD and half a case of beer. I sit home and just shoot at the TV!
LOL
Later GTHC Go Duke

bob blue devil
02-11-2014, 12:03 PM
We are young college kids, who love their team. I do not recall anything that stood out. Like the beer bottle throwing at Maryland at a players mom. Miami insulted some Duke fans there, this was in the chronicle. Just loud, drunk behavior.
Like me, sitting at home and watching late game. By that time I am through a bottle of JD and half a case of beer. I sit home and just shoot at the TV!
LOL
Later GTHC Go Duke

all this time I thought you were posting with a language barrier - my mistake! Cheers jimmy!

DukeAlumBS
02-11-2014, 12:06 PM
all this time I thought you were posting with a language barrier - my mistake! Cheers jimmy!
Makes me feel good people are reading ALL of this here. BTW like malt instead of JD!
Have nice day my friend, made my day!
Jimmy

MartyClark
02-11-2014, 12:54 PM
We are young college kids, who love their team. I do not recall anything that stood out. Like the beer bottle throwing at Maryland at a players mom. Miami insulted some Duke fans there, this was in the chronicle. Just loud, drunk behavior.
Like me, sitting at home and watching late game. By that time I am through a bottle of JD and half a case of beer. I sit home and just shoot at the TV!
LOL
Later GTHC Go Duke

I want to watch the game at your house.

weezie
02-11-2014, 02:27 PM
I recall a lovely secondhand story about a couple of undergrads who used to sit near the end of the opposing team's bench and would be so kind as to share their spirits from a flask with the opposing team's walk-ons.... I understand that it was a real treat ...

Now see there? We're a decent and welcoming group of friendly people. Generous to a fault, I'd say.

gus
02-11-2014, 05:45 PM
We are young college kids, who love their team. I do not recall anything that stood out. Like the beer bottle throwing at Maryland at a players mom. Miami insulted some Duke fans there, this was in the chronicle. Just loud, drunk behavior.
Like me, sitting at home and watching late game. By that time I am through a bottle of JD and half a case of beer. I sit home and just shoot at the TV!
LOL
Later GTHC Go Duke

Do you mean the water bottle thrown at Boozer's mom in 2001, after the gone in 54 seconds game?

Bluedog
02-11-2014, 06:07 PM
Do you mean the water bottle thrown at Boozer's mom in 2001, after the gone in 54 seconds game?

"Water bottle" sounds plastic. I'm pretty sure it was glass and have read that she suffered a concussion...not good.

Tappan Zee Devil
02-11-2014, 07:26 PM
Well, that was where the BOGgers sat during my years as an undergrad (1984-88). They were loud and obnoxious (in a good way if you're a Duke fan). I don't recall anything "bad" other than what they might have yelled at the opposing team, particularly when they were trying to meet during a timeout. Maybe some of what they yelled was over the line, but other than that I don't remember anything specific.

Also in my years in the late 1960s. Even then, in the pre-Cameron, let alone Crazie era, we were much louder and obnoxious than at present. K has toned things down more than I would like. But then - that was then, when I was at Duke, and everything was better than now.

-jk
02-11-2014, 07:35 PM
Also in my years in the late 1960s. Even then, in the pre-Cameron, let alone Crazie era, we were much louder and obnoxious than at present. K has toned things down more than I would like. But then - that was then, when I was at Duke, and everything was better than now.

And Bill Werber Served the Beer...

-jk

OldPhiKap
02-11-2014, 08:10 PM
Well, that was where the BOGgers sat during my years as an undergrad (1984-88). They were loud and obnoxious (in a good way if you're a Duke fan). I don't recall anything "bad" other than what they might have yelled at the opposing team, particularly when they were trying to meet during a timeout. Maybe some of what they yelled was over the line, but other than that I don't remember anything specific.

I will vouch for Rich, those years were exceptionally polite and welcoming.

Acymetric
02-11-2014, 09:11 PM
"Water bottle" sounds plastic. I'm pretty sure it was glass and have read that she suffered a concussion...not good.

My recollection is a mix here. I believe it was a plastic water bottle, but it was full. Could easily cause a concussion if it had any heat at all on it.

blazindw
02-11-2014, 09:13 PM
My recollection is a mix here. I believe it was a plastic water bottle, but it was full. Could easily cause a concussion if it had any heat at all on it.

Was definitely plastic and full. They didn't serve glass water bottles. Also, that incident is what led to stadiums across the country starting the process of removing bottle caps before serving water and pop that is commonplace today, as capless water bottles won't travel as far when thrown.

Dr. Rosenrosen
02-11-2014, 11:42 PM
Well, that was where the BOGgers sat during my years as an undergrad (1984-88). They were loud and obnoxious (in a good way if you're a Duke fan). I don't recall anything "bad" other than what they might have yelled at the opposing team, particularly when they were trying to meet during a timeout. Maybe some of what they yelled was over the line, but other than that I don't remember anything specific.
I don't remember the BOGgers yelling anything in particular - just yelling - loudly - really loudly - with shirts pulled over their heads - while leaning as far into the opponent's bench as possible - for the entire length of each timeout. It was pretty hilarious.

theschwartz
02-12-2014, 02:15 AM
There was verbally abusive behavior behind the visitor's bench in the early 1980s. And it wasn't all good spirited fun. It got ugly enough that Coach K took action. The problem (IIRC) was that, although the abuse was directed at the opposing players and staff, that's where the visiting players' parents sat. Mom and sis didn't need to hear that stuff about their son or brother, not from so close up. My (admittedly fading) recollection is that one step Coach K took was to seat a buffer row of young female Duke students -- some sort of ambassador group -- between the rowdy fans and the opposing bench. And someone needs to help me with this (it's been too long), but I think eventually that whole section became restricted to keep Duke undergrads away from the opposing bench. What's the seating arrangement there now?

My senior year (2000-01), the couple rows immediately behind the visiting team's family & fans were for RAs (which I was), student government reps, and club officers. We were supposed to be a buffer protecting our esteemed guests from the rest of the student body, although I don't know how strictly it was enforced (I believe we could bring in one guest with us to sit in the buffer zone) and it's not like some of these student leaders never got a little rowdy. I definitely recall angry words and taunts exchanged between the visitors and bufferers, particularly with the always pleasant Maryland fans on Senior Night (our last loss that season). I don't know if they still employ that practice but I would imagine they do.

Oh, and GTHC, GTH!

DukeAlumBS
02-12-2014, 02:16 AM
Do you mean the water bottle thrown at Boozer's mom in 2001, after the gone in 54 seconds game?

It was Chris Duhons mother as well as the Boozer incident. Last year for Maryland!
Nice day
Jimmy

OldPhiKap
02-12-2014, 06:41 AM
I don't remember the BOGgers yelling anything in particular - just yelling - loudly - really loudly - with shirts pulled over their heads - while leaning as far into the opponent's bench as possible - for the entire length of each timeout. It was pretty hilarious.

Maybe it was the pre-game tennis ball tossing.

captmojo
02-12-2014, 07:19 AM
I recall a lovely secondhand story about a couple of undergrads who used to sit near the end of the opposing team's bench and would be so kind as to share their spirits from a flask with the opposing team's walk-ons, the guys who knew they couldn't possibly get into the game. I understand that it was a real treat when the unthinkable happened and the lonely benchwarmers got in for a minute or two at the end of the game. Nothing heinous, of course

I recall another lovely story about some referees involved in working the ACC Tournament. Sorry, but I can't recall which zebra said it. He was asked by a reporter to summarize the difference between working the ACC and the SEC tournaments. The ref's reply was that, "On the way off the court to return to the dressing room post game, at the SEC you get showered from above with cheap beer. At the ACC, they pour out good liquor." (para) :D GTHC,GTH! 9F

Bluedog
02-12-2014, 08:28 AM
I recall another lovely story about some referees involved in working the ACC Tournament. Sorry, but I can't recall which zebra said it. He was asked by a reporter to summarize the difference between working the ACC and the SEC tournaments. The ref's reply was that, "On the way off the court to return to the dressing room post game, at the SEC you get showered from above with cheap beer. At the ACC, they pour out good liquor." (para) :D GTHC,GTH! 9F

I like the joke, but serious question: does the ACC tournament ever sell alcohol? I thought they didn't...Maybe they can in some arenas. All NCAA tournament games I have been to, beer has not been available for purchase.

flyingdutchdevil
02-12-2014, 08:35 AM
I like the joke, but serious question: does the ACC tournament ever sell alcohol? I thought they didn't...Maybe they can in some arenas. All NCAA tournament games I have been to, beer has not been available for purchase.

If I'm not mistaken, the Carrier Dome sells booze (or at least close to it). I don't know another ACC arena where alcohol is served, though.

These schools are missing out on some decent margins, though.

Dev11
02-12-2014, 08:50 AM
If I'm not mistaken, the Carrier Dome sells booze (or at least close to it). I don't know another ACC arena where alcohol is served, though.

These schools are missing out on some decent margins, though.

And some potentially horrific issues. I can't imagine what the Crazies would be like if they sold beer in Cameron.

flyingdutchdevil
02-12-2014, 08:54 AM
And some potentially horrific issues. I can't imagine what the Crazies would be like if they sold beer in Cameron.

Here's the thing - the Crazies don't drink for games. It's not because they are under 21 (has that really ever stopped college kids before?), but there isn't a large boozing culture for basketball games. I was both an undergrad and a grad at Duke, and I can say that the big difference is booze. My undergrad friends and I didn't drink much for games but my grad friends (including myself) had plenty to drink before hand.

I think a big part of this is because the Crazies are at the games 1.5 hours before tip-off. Grad students are there 15 min before tip-off.

Actually, I may have convinced myself that beer is a bad thing for the Crazies. What better event is there for students to drink than waiting 1.5 hours for a game to start? Now I understand why alcohol isn't served at these games.

DukeAlumBS
02-12-2014, 09:01 AM
I do not think they do booze at all. But your typical rot gut NY beers. Like Genny!
And you can get an up grade to Molson or Labatts. Canadian and close to the border.
I think year ago this was done, many years ago.

Nice day my friend
Jimmy

TruBlu
02-12-2014, 09:13 AM
While coaching NC State, Norm Sloan made a statement to a reporter that the Crazies were so rowdy for games because they must have been boozing it up before the game.

On his next visit to Cameron, he was greeted by the Crazies with chants of "Have a drink, Norm Sloan, have a drink", while waving those large air inflated plastic replicas of Canadian Club, Jim Beam, etc. in his direction.

Norm's face was as red as the Wolfpack players jersey.

Native
02-12-2014, 09:47 AM
Here's the thing - the Crazies don't drink for games.

3898

ETA: There isn't a large boozing culture before games, per se, and it's certainly dwindled in recent years (Admissions standards, the decline of fraternity representation in Cameron, yada yada yada) but it's not completely gone.

flyingdutchdevil
02-12-2014, 09:49 AM
3898

It was different when I was a student (03-07). There wasn't much drinking. Are you actually arguing that undergrads drank a lot for games when they had to enter Cameron 1.5 hours before games, when there is no booze? If so, that must be one helluva uncomfortable experience.

daveyro
02-12-2014, 09:50 AM
Given the fact that our students are closer to the floor than found in most arena's, our restraint is admirable. The hand waving on a sidelines in-bound pass is fun to watch/do, but it doesn't seem to really impact the player. Worst thing I remember from my days (78 - 83) was jingling keys when a player (was it a State player?) got into trouble for stealing, or trying to steal, a car. We did have some chants similarly targeted at players looks (heaven forbid a 19 year old having acne), off-court behavior (pizza, keys) and so on. I can't hear today's chants on TV, so maybe someone can confirm that K banned that sort of chanting.

On away games, some of our players do draw intense taunting. Hurley got it pretty bad, perhsps as bad as JJ. And bottle throwing, etc. But in CIS, we are sprited but not nasty. The thread from the Syracuse guy asking what to expect showed our welcoming nature

blazindw
02-12-2014, 09:52 AM
I know a lot of people back when I was there didn't drink...the reason? It was so dang hot in Cameron, they would have passed out 10 minutes after they got inside! I never had a drink before entering Cameron, but would probably drink about $30 worth of bottled water and still lose about 4 pounds of water weight a game.

Dev11
02-12-2014, 10:05 AM
I know a lot of people back when I was there didn't drink...the reason? It was so dang hot in Cameron, they would have passed out 10 minutes after they got inside! I never had a drink before entering Cameron, but would probably drink about $30 worth of bottled water and still lose about 4 pounds of water weight a game.

Not to mention the almost complete inability to go to the bathroom during the game.

flyingdutchdevil
02-12-2014, 10:11 AM
Not to mention the almost complete inability to go to the bathroom during the game.

Yup. And the fact that jumping up and down while under the influence for 1.75 hours can a) make you nauseous and b) kill your buzz really quick.

DU82
02-12-2014, 12:50 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the Carrier Dome sells booze (or at least close to it). I don't know another ACC arena where alcohol is served, though.

These schools are missing out on some decent margins, though.

The Florida State arena sold beer when I was there in 1997. It's technically off campus (county run) so it was allowed. Don't know if they still do.

Native
02-12-2014, 02:52 PM
Are you actually arguing that undergrads drank a lot for games when they had to enter Cameron 1.5 hours before games, when there is no booze?

Not all, but some.

OldPhiKap
02-12-2014, 03:02 PM
I brought a bottle of champagne in to the '86 Duke-Carolina game (last home game for JD, Alarie, Nilas, Hendu). Took the wire cage off the cork with a minute to go and Duke up. Dean started intentionally fouling, and a minute turned into an eternity. Long story short, the cork just shot off at some point due to the pressure int he bottle. No idea where it went, other than "up" from the student section.

And yes, we won the game!

Rich
02-12-2014, 03:08 PM
I brought a bottle of champagne in to the '86 Duke-Carolina game (last home game for JD, Alarie, Nilas, Hendu). Took the wire cage off the cork with a minute to go and Duke up. Dean started intentionally fouling, and a minute turned into an eternity. Long story short, the cork just shot off at some point due to the pressure int he bottle. No idea where it went, other than "up" from the student section.

And yes, we won the game!

Ahh, good times. If I remember correctly, that was the Al McGuire "Taming the Animals" game in which he held off the Crazies while holding a chair and wearing a pith helmet. Also memorable was Tommy Amaker's pickpocket of Kenny Smith and layup right as the halftime clock expired. I have that game on videotape somewhere, but I don't have a VCR to play it!

OldPhiKap
02-12-2014, 03:15 PM
Ahh, good times. If I remember correctly, that was the Al McGuire "Taming the Animals" game in which he held off the Crazies while holding a chair and wearing a pith helmet. Also memorable was Tommy Amaker's pickpocket of Kenny Smith and layup right as the halftime clock expired. I have that game on videotape somewhere, but I don't have a VCR to play it!

Same here, I have a cabinet full of games.

ACC Vault has some old games available for stream (or did in the past) -- ipad does not support Adobe flash so I cannot shoot a link to you or check whether that game is available.

I forget which game that was with Al -- they all run together these days -- but of the big-time announcers of the day Al was my favorite. (Closer Dan Bonner fan too but that's a different thread).

rasputin
02-12-2014, 03:45 PM
Given the fact that our students are closer to the floor than found in most arena's, our restraint is admirable. The hand waving on a sidelines in-bound pass is fun to watch/do, but it doesn't seem to really impact the player. Worst thing I remember from my days (78 - 83) was jingling keys when a player (was it a State player?) got into trouble for stealing, or trying to steal, a car. We did have some chants similarly targeted at players looks (heaven forbid a 19 year old having acne), off-court behavior (pizza, keys) and so on. I can't hear today's chants on TV, so maybe someone can confirm that K banned that sort of chanting.

On away games, some of our players do draw intense taunting. Hurley got it pretty bad, perhsps as bad as JJ. And bottle throwing, etc. But in CIS, we are sprited but not nasty. The thread from the Syracuse guy asking what to expect showed our welcoming nature

Clyde Austin. That was my first ACC game in Cameron.

OldPhiKap
02-12-2014, 04:26 PM
Ahh, good times. If I remember correctly, that was the Al McGuire "Taming the Animals" game in which he held off the Crazies while holding a chair and wearing a pith helmet. Also memorable was Tommy Amaker's pickpocket of Kenny Smith and layup right as the halftime clock expired. I have that game on videotape somewhere, but I don't have a VCR to play it!

Also the infamous "in-Hale, ex-Hale" game IIRC.

luvdahops
02-12-2014, 04:44 PM
Clyde Austin. That was my first ACC game in Cameron.


Given the fact that our students are closer to the floor than found in most arena's, our restraint is admirable. The hand waving on a sidelines in-bound pass is fun to watch/do, but it doesn't seem to really impact the player. Worst thing I remember from my days (78 - 83) was jingling keys when a player (was it a State player?) got into trouble for stealing, or trying to steal, a car. We did have some chants similarly targeted at players looks (heaven forbid a 19 year old having acne), off-court behavior (pizza, keys) and so on. I can't hear today's chants on TV, so maybe someone can confirm that K banned that sort of chanting.

On away games, some of our players do draw intense taunting. Hurley got it pretty bad, perhsps as bad as JJ. And bottle throwing, etc. But in CIS, we are sprited but not nasty. The thread from the Syracuse guy asking what to expect showed our welcoming nature

The game changer was an '84 game with Maryland in which Terp forward Herman Veal, who had been accused of rape, was greeted with a shower of panties and condoms during player intros. That led to a WaPost editorial on the boorish behavior of the Crazies, and the infamous "avuncular letter" from then President Terry Sanford urging a higher standard of taste/decorum (but no sacrifice in terms of general intensity). K has had to reprimand the crowd on occasion since then, but fallout from the Veal incident was a big watershed.

luvdahops
02-12-2014, 04:45 PM
Also the infamous "in-Hale, ex-Hale" game IIRC.

Yes it was. Credit to Hale for actually cracking a smile when he figured out what we were chanting.

DU82
02-12-2014, 05:07 PM
Yes it was. Credit to Hale for actually cracking a smile when he figured out what we were chanting.

Also note that it was clear that he was no longer in danger of serious health issues because of it. I don't think the cheer gets started if he's not actually at the game, clearly recovering.

luvdahops
02-12-2014, 05:16 PM
Also note that it was clear that he was no longer in danger of serious health issues because of it. I don't think the cheer gets started if he's not actually at the game, clearly recovering.

No doubt

Duke84
02-12-2014, 11:47 PM
The game changer was an '84 game with Maryland in which Terp forward Herman Veal, who had been accused of rape, was greeted with a shower of panties and condoms during player intros. That led to a WaPost editorial on the boorish behavior of the Crazies, and the infamous "avuncular letter" from then President Terry Sanford urging a higher standard of taste/decorum (but no sacrifice in terms of general intensity). K has had to reprimand the crowd on occasion since then, but fallout from the Veal incident was a big watershed.

I was at the Herman Veal game, and that crowd was pretty ugly - the worst in my four years. If I recall, the game was at 9 PM, and there was definitely drinking in the line all afternoon. My friends and I were near the front, and when the doors opened, the crowd surged - and the line spilled over the railings, with some people getting dumped in the mud next to the walkway. We ended up in the corner facing the Duke bench, where we usually got seats at midcourt. I was a senior, I was drunk, and I hated Maryland with the heat of 1000 suns - but I turned to a friend and said that "This is not going to turn out so good." And it didn't.

Jay Bilas and Mark Alarie lived in my dorm at the time - and after a night of guarding an angry Herman Veal and very motivated Maryland team, they were not very happy with the crowd (to say the least). Neither was K. Before the Carolina game that followed, he met with small groups of fans in the stands to get that point across.

luvdahops
02-13-2014, 09:30 AM
I was at the Herman Veal game, and that crowd was pretty ugly - the worst in my four years. If I recall, the game was at 9 PM, and there was definitely drinking in the line all afternoon. My friends and I were near the front, and when the doors opened, the crowd surged - and the line spilled over the railings, with some people getting dumped in the mud next to the walkway. We ended up in the corner facing the Duke bench, where we usually got seats at midcourt. I was a senior, I was drunk, and I hated Maryland with the heat of 1000 suns - but I turned to a friend and said that "This is not going to turn out so good." And it didn't.

Jay Bilas and Mark Alarie lived in my dorm at the time - and after a night of guarding an angry Herman Veal and very motivated Maryland team, they were not very happy with the crowd (to say the least). Neither was K. Before the Carolina game that followed, he met with small groups of fans in the stands to get that point across.

Yup, that's how I remember it too. The crowd clearly crossed a line that night and it backfired, to say the least. Maryland won and Veal went off on us. And then came the post-game fallout.

DukieInKansas
02-13-2014, 12:48 PM
Ahh, good times. If I remember correctly, that was the Al McGuire "Taming the Animals" game in which he held off the Crazies while holding a chair and wearing a pith helmet. Also memorable was Tommy Amaker's pickpocket of Kenny Smith and layup right as the halftime clock expired. I have that game on videotape somewhere, but I don't have a VCR to play it!


Same here, I have a cabinet full of games.

ACC Vault has some old games available for stream (or did in the past) -- ipad does not support Adobe flash so I cannot shoot a link to you or check whether that game is available.

I forget which game that was with Al -- they all run together these days -- but of the big-time announcers of the day Al was my favorite. (Closer Dan Bonner fan too but that's a different thread).

Bring them along when you come visit Kansas. I have a VCR. OPK - I'll even make gravy and pies. Will you bring potatoes?

MulletMan
02-13-2014, 12:58 PM
Here's the thing - the Crazies don't drink for games.

Whaaaaaaaaaaa? You may be painting with a bit of a broad brush there.



I think a big part of this is because the Crazies are at the games 1.5 hours before tip-off. Grad students are there 15 min before tip-off.

I mean... except for the grad students that are there 1.5 half before tip.

I believe that we were at Duke at the same time for part of your tenure, and I can assure you that there was some drinking. I can also assure everyone that it is possible, occasionally, to scream your arse off for 3 hours while being inebriated. I can also assure all of you that I will not assure you of anything else... I have already admitted to too much! :rolleyes:

flyingdutchdevil
02-13-2014, 01:25 PM
Whaaaaaaaaaaa? You may be painting with a bit of a broad brush there.



I mean... except for the grad students that are there 1.5 half before tip.

I believe that we were at Duke at the same time for part of your tenure, and I can assure you that there was some drinking. I can also assure everyone that it is possible, occasionally, to scream your arse off for 3 hours while being inebriated. I can also assure all of you that I will not assure you of anything else... I have already admitted to too much! :rolleyes:

From my experience, the undergrads who got hammered were severely in the minority. I don't consider a beer or two to be considered pregaming. Now, you may have been in that minority as an undergrad. I - and virtually everyone that I knew - wasn't

Grads? Now that's a different story. In the last two years, grads rarely came that early to the games (UNC and the big games being the exception). The hardcore grad Cameron Crazies are long gone, and I assume that last of that is yourself, Viking Guy, and the third dude whose alias I have forgotten. This made pregaming much easier and a lot more fun.

Based on my experience from the last 10 years, I would have to say that drinking as an undergrad in Cameron is infrequent and drinking as a grad in Cameron is common.

wsb3
02-13-2014, 03:13 PM
The game changer was an '84 game with Maryland in which Terp forward Herman Veal, who had been accused of rape, was greeted with a shower of panties and condoms during player intros. That led to a WaPost editorial on the boorish behavior of the Crazies, and the infamous "avuncular letter" from then President Terry Sanford urging a higher standard of taste/decorum (but no sacrifice in terms of general intensity). K has had to reprimand the crowd on occasion since then, but fallout from the Veal incident was a big watershed.

The Herman Veal story was the one I was waiting on.

-bdbd
02-13-2014, 03:46 PM
I was at the Herman Veal game, and that crowd was pretty ugly - the worst in my four years. If I recall, the game was at 9 PM, and there was definitely drinking in the line all afternoon. My friends and I were near the front, and when the doors opened, the crowd surged - and the line spilled over the railings, with some people getting dumped in the mud next to the walkway. We ended up in the corner facing the Duke bench, where we usually got seats at midcourt. I was a senior, I was drunk, and I hated Maryland with the heat of 1000 suns - but I turned to a friend and said that "This is not going to turn out so good." And it didn't.

Jay Bilas and Mark Alarie lived in my dorm at the time - and after a night of guarding an angry Herman Veal and very motivated Maryland team, they were not very happy with the crowd (to say the least). Neither was K. Before the Carolina game that followed, he met with small groups of fans in the stands to get that point across.

The cheer that I remember from that game was, in place of going around the stadium and the crowd on each side of the court yelling, in sequence, "D - U - K - E", the cheer became "R - A - P - E". But, do give the Crazies credit for a great recovery, as at the next game, after sufficient scolding from multiple sources, especially the Post/Washington media, some Crazies showed up a the UNC game wear halos, signs declaring "Welcome Dean and revered guests," and, when the refs made some terrible calls, the cheer went up, "We beg to differ... we beg to differ..."

My ire was raised a few years later, with MD's fan behavior deteriorating rapidly, as some of the WaPost's sports reporters - to say nothing of MD administrators - who wrote scathing editorials and reviews of the Duke crowd chants for Veal, simply refused to condemn in anything other than circumspect ways, the behavior of MD crowds (mobs??!) as they rioted after games, looting business, rolling cars, burning furniture in the streets, etc., as well as assaulting fans of visiting teams at Cole and, then Comcast, even giving Carlos Boozer's mother, sitting behind the bench, a concussion with a thrown (full) soda bottle. Talk about duplicitous!

OldPhiKap
02-13-2014, 06:00 PM
Bring them along when you come visit Kansas. I have a VCR. OPK - I'll even make gravy and pies. Will you bring potatoes?

Not sure how I could turn that down, hoped the batch I sent at Christmas got there okay.

Thurber Whyte
02-13-2014, 09:16 PM
I have never thought that the Herman Veal incident was something that the Cameron Crazies should be sheepish about. Duke had a tradition of making light of the criminal records of visiting players both before and after that game. Opposing player have been greeted with, among other things, album covers, pizza boxes, keys and shoes as tokens of their particular offenses. In Veal’s case it was panties. If that or any of the chants were cringe worthy it was because Herman Veal’s particular choice of misdeed, assault with intent to rape, was kind of out there. Otherwise, it is hard to see how the incident differed in kind or even in degree.

It became a public relations headache for Duke only because the Washington Post, which, despite its national stature, was and still is one of the worst homer newspapers when it comes to its coverage of the Terps, decided to make it a national topic of debate (between itself and its own echo mostly). That reaction is typical of the exceptionalism that we often find frustrating about Terp fans.

I was in high school at the time in Maryland. This was before I applied to Duke and before I cared about basketball. The local news showed video of the crowd giving Veal a hard time and making all the “tut, tut” noises. However, I remember thinking, “Wow, that’s kind of funny!”

Turnabout is fair play. I had to listen to Bobby Hurley serenaded with chants of “DUI, DUI” when I saw Duke play at Wake.

I say all this despite my own involvement at the peripheries of the Lacrosse Hoax. By the time of the Herman Veal incident, Veal had been found guilty by a University of Maryland hearing board and, after his appeals had been exhausted, served a suspension. By the best evidence we have and the judgment of the University of Maryland’s own administration, he had done exactly what he had been accused of doing.

The victim had chosen not to file a criminal complaint and opted instead to pursue the matter entirely through the University’s judicial system. What makes the umbrage of those associated with Maryland and the Washington Post even more distasteful is that many of them seized upon the fact that Veal was never prosecuted criminally to claim that the allegations against Veal were unproven or even that Veal had been exonerated somehow. However, given the often unsympathetic way rape cases were handled thirty years ago, the victim’s choice was understandable. Universities at that time were hardly as sensitive to the issue of sexual assault on campus and they did not employ the sort of rigged procedures that are used in such matters today.

I can see why singling out individual players in this fashion might not actually help the Duke team. Just as there is a long tradition of opposing players getting roasted in this fashion, there is an equally long tradition of them responding by having career nights.

I do hope that UNC’s player’s will once again be greeted with signs saying “Welcome fellow scholars!” when they come to Cameron this year just as they were at the game following the Herman Veal incident.

-jk
02-13-2014, 10:23 PM
And somewhere, safely put away, I still have my Ken Denlinger WaPost "majoring in smart..." t-shirt. (Really cheap t-shirt, but a classic, up there with "Denard and Banks, so long and thanks" - before they re-screened 'em for the ncaa.)

-jk

throatybeard
02-13-2014, 11:21 PM
The hardcore grad Cameron Crazies are long gone, and I assume that last of that is yourself, Viking Guy, and the third dude whose alias I have forgotten.

I'm not sure which of us you thought was third, but I can provide a helpful lineup for you to pick him out of:

3911

Henderson
02-14-2014, 08:03 AM
Green Shorts

Raise your hand if you were there.

flyingdutchdevil
02-14-2014, 08:46 AM
I'm not sure which of us you thought was third, but I can provide a helpful lineup for you to pick him out of:

3911

Weird. I always thought there were 3 of your guys. And I'm pretty sure one of them was my biology TA.

Those were my best Cameron days - when that cohort of grad students and their whiteboard guided the undergrads. It really isn't the same now. The Cameron Crazies are still insanely energetic and use the core chants, but a lot of the creativity that arose from that grad cohort is gone.

daveyro
02-14-2014, 11:27 AM
Green Shorts

Raise your hand if you were there.

Green Shorts was the most memorable chant for me. No malice, just pure funny.

grad_devil
02-14-2014, 11:43 AM
Green Shorts

Raise your hand if you were there.

I don't think I was there for this one.

A related one, that I do remember is "backward shorts". Anyone? Anyone?

duketaylor
02-14-2014, 12:29 PM
Surprisingly, no mention of "Speedo Guy?" I concur that FSU used to sell beer, not sure if they still do and I never saw alcohol offered at an ACC Tourney, at least not inside. At Greensboro Kevin Grevey, who was doing the games on radio, stopped by our tailgate and drank a beer with us. Still have his business card, very nice guy. There's no telling how many beers we sold or gave away at the tourney. We'd buy extra cases just to sell, usually Natty Light.

I was present for many of the more notorious games: Herman Veal, Chris Washburn, Clyde Austin, the Boggers behind Lefty, Jim Valvano addressing the Crazies before games, etc.

Last visit to CIS against Maryland is hard to imagine, wish I'd be there. Enjoy!!

Also, I don't recall a lot of boozing before games; we might've gone to the C.I. for a couple of games of quarters, but never made it a habit of getting hammered just for a game. Alas, as far as any of you know, I was not present and had nothing to do with the foodfight;)

ricks68
02-14-2014, 12:30 PM
I'm not sure which of us you thought was third, but I can provide a helpful lineup for you to pick him out of:

3911

That picture with me and Ed used to hang in my office until I retired recently.:D

ricks

DukieInKansas
02-14-2014, 12:55 PM
Not sure how I could turn that down, hoped the batch I sent at Christmas got there okay.

They were delicious!

DukieInKansas
02-14-2014, 12:59 PM
Green Shorts

Raise your hand if you were there.


Green Shorts was the most memorable chant for me. No malice, just pure funny.

Also one of my favorites. Especially the next year when you would have to explain it to new students. I always saw it as a supportive cheer for the team - just keep trying. Young Mr. Pye may not have been the most skilled player on the court but he certainly tried harder than all the others.

Jarhead
02-14-2014, 01:01 PM
Green Shorts

Raise your hand if you were there.

Yes, I was! And yes I was on the Mall in Washington late on a 4th of July about 25 years ago with my son and his wife and another couple, all from Duke. Among hundreds of thousands of people and somewhere near us somebody yelled, out, with gusto, "Green shorts."
http://crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

Within seconds the reply was heard, and the exchange went on for nearly 10 minutes. We had to explain it to some folks sitting near us.

Olympic Fan
02-14-2014, 01:32 PM
The cheer that I remember from that game was, in place of going around the stadium and the crowd on each side of the court yelling, in sequence, "D - U - K - E", the cheer became "R - A - P - E". But, do give the Crazies credit for a great recovery, as at the next game, after sufficient scolding from multiple sources, especially the Post/Washington media, some Crazies showed up a the UNC game wear halos, signs declaring "Welcome Dean and revered guests," and, when the refs made some terrible calls, the cheer went up, "We beg to differ... we beg to differ..."


What needs to be pointed out is the context of the Maryland game ... and the game that followed -- after "Uncle Terry" and Coach K urged the Crazies to behave better. The next game -- as you point out -- was the game with the "We beg to differ" cheer (replacing the familiar at the time "Bull***t), the "Welcome Honored Guests" etc. Students wore haloes that they had fashioned out of coathangers and aluminum foil.

But the game itself was the famous "Double-Standard" game. Unbeaten and No. 1 UNC trailed Duke for most of the game. At halftime, UNC assistant coach Bill Guthridge chased the officials off the court, screaming obscenities at them. Late in the second half, Dean thought a foul had been assessed to the wrong player and he wanted Tommy Hunt (the ACC director of football officials at the time) to sound the buzzer to get the officials' attention. Hunt pointed out that he was not supposed to sound the buzzer when the ball was in play and he would get the officials over to check it at the next dead ball. That wasn't good enough for Dean, who reached across the scorer's table and tried to hit the buzzer himself. Instead, he gave UNC a quick 20 points on the scoreboard ... and caused such a commotion that the officials stopped the game ... Dean got no penalty for pounding on the scorer's table.

After the game, Krzyzewski contrasted the "double standard" that exists in perception around the ACC. His kids were crucified by the press for their behavior in the Maryland game, but no matter what UNC and Dean Smith did, no matter how outrageously he behaved, nobody ever took them to task.

Two more interesting points about that Duke-UNC game (after the Duke-Maryland game): It was not on TV, maybe the last Duke-UNC fame that was not televised. It was originally part of the ACC's Season Ticket package -- a pay for view plan that blew up in the face of violent fan opposition.

The other thing I remember about it, is that two days after the loss to UNC (which was Duke's third straight ACC loss), Tom Butters called Krzyzewski into his office and tore up his contract and gave him a new long-term deal. Krzyzewski was 52-51 as Duke's head coach at that point.

Butters gets a lot of credit for hiring the unknown Army coach. But he should get just as much praise for that moment in 1984, when he made a long-term commitment to a guy who was basically .500 at that point in his career.

MulletMan
02-14-2014, 01:58 PM
Weird. I always thought there were 3 of your guys. And I'm pretty sure one of them was my biology TA.

Those were my best Cameron days - when that cohort of grad students and their whiteboard guided the undergrads. It really isn't the same now. The Cameron Crazies are still insanely energetic and use the core chants, but a lot of the creativity that arose from that grad cohort is gone.

Awww... warm fuzzies. Thanks, man. Its too bad that the grads have fallen off. The fact that the sides and two ends were able to communicate so well was what made that time in Cameron work... especially with the multiple sided chants, and the call/response ones as well.

Your Bio TA was The Viking Guy.

Rich
02-14-2014, 03:59 PM
And somewhere, safely put away, I still have my Ken Denlinger WaPost "majoring in smart..." t-shirt. (Really cheap t-shirt, but a classic, up there with "Denard and Banks, so long and thanks" - before they re-screened 'em for the ncaa.)

-jk

I can't say I have mine, but remember the Ken Denlinger shirt well. I believe that although the shirt didn't specifically say "Cameron Crazies" (it said something like "Cameron Chaos"?), the term was derived from that shirt and the rest, as they say, is history.

throatybeard
02-14-2014, 09:04 PM
Weird. I always thought there were 3 of your guys. And I'm pretty sure one of them was my biology TA.

Those were my best Cameron days - when that cohort of grad students and their whiteboard guided the undergrads. It really isn't the same now. The Cameron Crazies are still insanely energetic and use the core chants, but a lot of the creativity that arose from that grad cohort is gone.

To clarify, as with many successful ensembles, the cast rotated over time. I entered PhDskool in 2000-01 and finished in 2004, so I can only talk about those four seasons with any authority.

In 2000-01, Big Tall Backwards Hat Guy (Devon Ritch, I think his name was) and his crew still led the section, him and I think two buddies. They all graduated at once. I think they were law-talking guys. They don't get enough credit. They set a precedent that the area under the south goal was almost as important as halfcourt. I don't think the Phalanx would have happened, or have happened nearly as easily if they hadn't paved the way. In the years immediately before that, all anyone cared about was section 17.

We stood in line behind them, and a couple times they had to get there a tad late, we gave them frontsies out of respect. Later on, folks would cut us some slack if not all of us were there because of work. Like for example, four of us were in line, but I had to teach an evening class, and no one would bust on us for space-saving. We appreciated that.

2001-02 was Viking Guy's first year in gradskool. He had been working in Admissions prior to that. We knew each other from Ugrad--we were class of Wojo. He attended the UVA game with me in 2001 when he was working on the gorilla suit thing, and I wore the gorilla suit. But we were behind BTBHG's crew then. By 2002, Mullet, Viking, Drew Brown and I were routinely down front, often with Will Tyson somewhere near, and usually with Britt Fisher somewhere around. Kesseler was often a ways off to the side with his female friend whose name I forget. She was in math, tall, brown hair, she had a dog around quite a bit, and she got a job or a postdoc at Utah at some point. The regular-season-final whuppin of Carolina was a high point.

The Phalanx as such didn't truly coalesce until 2002-03. By that point, Brown had finished Lawskool and was gone (or upstairs, because he's a magician when it comes to the ticket market), Kesseler joined the group, and we had a fairly solidified core with Viking, Mullet, me, Fisher, and Kesseler (aka "Baldy), always standing in the same order from left to right under the south goal. Nearby, but not acting nearly as ridiculously, were the woman to become Mrs Mullet--Laura, Julianne Weinzimmer, sometimes KimRo, Tyson, and Andy Baraniak. LawTalkingGuy (John Fred) and Phil Bezanson were around a lot too. Fisher finished his MDiv in 2003 and left the group. The guys you see in Ricks68's picture are this group. This was dubbed "the four fat guy phalanx," as I wasn't yet deemed fat. (I am now). I'm pretty sure both Viking and Mullet are much slimmer than they were then. Wish I could say the same.

In 2003-04, Fred and Bezanson always stood to my left and Mullet and Viking were in the center with Baldy to their left, and usually our female associates and Baraniak behind us a row. This is the lineup you see with our friend Keggy in the graphic. I think Tyson started moving around, I forget. I'd have to ask him on Facebook. That was a really great year--the team was amazing, we'd polished our shtick together before, we had great contacts in the Ugrad section, primarily Wine, Majdi, and Roller, we won the home games against UNC and Maryland.

That year, I was 27, and I knew I couldn't do that jump-and-scream-for-hours thing much longer. (Remember, we did warmups too). I think some people are fortunate to lose their youth in a gradual fashion. Me, I knew I was done or about to be done rather abruptly. By February I knew I was going to MSU for a one-year visiting gig, so my unfinished dissertation was a gun pointed at my head, and I knew that Duke-UNC game that we won 70-65 would the end of any regular basketball attendance on my part. There are certain points in life when you foresee that everything will be different forever after that. Like the last week before you have your first kid. I knew I was done. I have a framed photo of that UNC game in my house, even though I've gotten less and less fanatical about Duke sports.

Fred and Bezanson graduated from lawskool in Spring 2004 and I graduated in Summer 2004 and moved to Mississippi in August. Tyson finished sometime between Spring 2004 and Spring 2005 and he and I went to graduation together in May 2005. I also came back in a rather flaccid fashion for one game in 2005 (Clemson), and I think Viking was out of town and Mullet and Baldy were there but no one else of the core group was--it was a break game. Thanks to Merry for the ticket that got me in, and the DVD of the game.

For 2004-05 and 2005-06, you'd have to ask Mullet and Viking about that. They still did it in 2004-05 but I'm not sure about 2005-06, and Viking finished in 2006-07 but I think he didn't do the Viking thing because he was finishing his diss, and he quit the Cameron thing after 2005-06. I'm not sure if they drafted new cast members. I'm also not sure when Kesseler finished. Boswell gave me a ticket upstairs in 2006-07 for the JJ retirement game, and Viking gave me a ride, but he didn't go to the game.

Later, after Viking was gone, some kid started wearing a Viking helmet in the same area. This poor guy fell on stairs at Duke, and if what I've heard is accurate, fell, busted his head and died.

Point being, it was a very fluid situation. We were lucky that:

(a) BTBHG's group paved the way for us
(b) The turnover was gradual for a while
(c) We always got to be in the same spot, so people knew where to look for us
(d) We had some boss Ugrads to collaborate with
(e) The team was always good in those years

And yes, we consumed a LOT of ethyl alcohol before those games. How else do you act like a pogo stick when you're 27? 19, sure? 27, I need a little something else to get me through this. Past 30, no one sane acts like that. I'm 37, and if I tried to act like that now, I'd have an infarction.

Newton_14
02-15-2014, 10:10 AM
I'm not sure which of us you thought was third, but I can provide a helpful lineup for you to pick him out of:

3911

I assume "Kovy" is our "Mulletman"?

greybeard
02-15-2014, 12:27 PM
At great risk (what more can they throw at me), from afar, Duke began a trend in college basketball that personally I find creepy. What it began was the pointing at players, yelling stuff, no matter how clever, and I even want to say the waving behind the opposing team's basket (not sure about the latter). The chants at opposing players were undoubtedly clever, heady, but were and are intended to sting, and that to me is bad form. What ultimately followed was an attempt to emulate, tit for tat, only the fans were not nearly so clever, and it Maryland's case has been downright ugly and offensive and not just in basketball. I always thought that fans trying to make themselves part of the game, in this fashion, was a step too far from what the historic 12th man could ever embrace as appropriate.

I did not tract the bottle throwing and worse at Maryland basketball games. I attended enough soccer games to have had my fill, especially the constant verbal taunts and use of the f bomb in nonstop and group fashion at opposing team goalies.

I always thought that here were some idiots who lacked the creativity, the brains, to put out something nuanced and clever that offended them when they saw their players endure at Cameron. Polite it was/is not. Welcoming of an opponent without whom a game does not take place it is not. The Lakota warriors honored those whom they did battle with, and, when victorious, would take nothing for themselves from those that they had slain. Phil Jackson used Lakota ritual and stories of how they dealt with their opponents to inspire the play that brought Chicago its initial championships.

There was a time when their was no booing, no one made a sound or gesture to disrupt a foul shot, and no collective targeting of opposing team's players took place. I think that a better time.

There is of course no going back, and I am not now suggesting that Duke go it alone. The current culture is what it is. However, where it began is where it began, and I think that that was probably at Cameron, at least that was for a long time that the only place I saw it happening, at that was for more than a while.

I think that Maryland's move from the ACC is a good thing if only on the chance that, outside the comfort zone of it's natural enemies, it might clean up its act. I believe I said that here, noting that perhaps the specter of particularly hostel environments in stadiums of 100,000 fans might provide an incentive. Also, they play their games a little rougher in that Conference. It could get real ugly in a way that Maryland players would not appreciate. I did not mean to suggest that players would go out to injure Maryland players, but rather to make sure they knew that what they were getting was something special. Actually, I think that the move away from the ACC into foreign territory should be enough. The stuff that has been going on at Maryland makes me sick.

Perhaps the issue being addressed in this thread might be better served if it were broader.

Des Esseintes
02-15-2014, 12:52 PM
Phil Jackson, all-time needler of opposing players and coaches, partook of the Lakota ideal exactly as often as was convenient.

throatybeard
02-15-2014, 12:59 PM
Newton, yes.

Greybeard, I'd be rather surprised if Duke invented pointing at someone and shouting stuff. I know we think we invented everything, but we didn't.

Duvall
02-15-2014, 03:11 PM
The early days. (http://www.sportsillustrated.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1140230/index.htm)


The original reason for using a cage was largely forgotten by the 1920s; many professionals of the time believed its purpose was to protect players from enraged fans. They had ample reason: Pro basketball in the '20s was no place for shrinking violets. It was considered fair play to drive the man with the ball into the wire or rope, especially if he was shooting. When a home-team player was thus clobbered, it was not unusual for fans to join the resulting fray. The players entered and left the cage through doors at either end, and fans sometimes fought their way in using the same openings.

Cameron pointing, though.

BD80
02-15-2014, 04:45 PM
At great risk (what more can they throw at me), from afar, Duke began a trend in college basketball that personally I find creepy. What it began was the pointing at players, yelling stuff, no matter how clever, and I even want to say the waving behind the opposing team's basket ...

How about when they started keeping track of how many points each team scored, and declaring ONLY the team with the most points the winner?

Newton_14
02-15-2014, 09:39 PM
To clarify, as with many successful ensembles, the cast rotated over time. I entered PhDskool in 2000-01 and finished in 2004, so I can only talk about those four seasons with any authority.

In 2000-01, Big Tall Backwards Hat Guy (Devon Ritch, I think his name was) and his crew still led the section, him and I think two buddies. They all graduated at once. I think they were law-talking guys. They don't get enough credit. They set a precedent that the area under the south goal was almost as important as halfcourt. I don't think the Phalanx would have happened, or have happened nearly as easily if they hadn't paved the way. In the years immediately before that, all anyone cared about was section 17.

We stood in line behind them, and a couple times they had to get there a tad late, we gave them frontsies out of respect. Later on, folks would cut us some slack if not all of us were there because of work. Like for example, four of us were in line, but I had to teach an evening class, and no one would bust on us for space-saving. We appreciated that.

2001-02 was Viking Guy's first year in gradskool. He had been working in Admissions prior to that. We knew each other from Ugrad--we were class of Wojo. He attended the UVA game with me in 2001 when he was working on the gorilla suit thing, and I wore the gorilla suit. But we were behind BTBHG's crew then. By 2002, Mullet, Viking, Drew Brown and I were routinely down front, often with Will Tyson somewhere near, and usually with Britt Fisher somewhere around. Kesseler was often a ways off to the side with his female friend whose name I forget. She was in math, tall, brown hair, she had a dog around quite a bit, and she got a job or a postdoc at Utah at some point. The regular-season-final whuppin of Carolina was a high point.

The Phalanx as such didn't truly coalesce until 2002-03. By that point, Brown had finished Lawskool and was gone (or upstairs, because he's a magician when it comes to the ticket market), Kesseler joined the group, and we had a fairly solidified core with Viking, Mullet, me, Fisher, and Kesseler (aka "Baldy), always standing in the same order from left to right under the south goal. Nearby, but not acting nearly as ridiculously, were the woman to become Mrs Mullet--Laura, Julianne Weinzimmer, sometimes KimRo, Tyson, and Andy Baraniak. LawTalkingGuy (John Fred) and Phil Bezanson were around a lot too. Fisher finished his MDiv in 2003 and left the group. The guys you see in Ricks68's picture are this group. This was dubbed "the four fat guy phalanx," as I wasn't yet deemed fat. (I am now). I'm pretty sure both Viking and Mullet are much slimmer than they were then. Wish I could say the same.

In 2003-04, Fred and Bezanson always stood to my left and Mullet and Viking were in the center with Baldy to their left, and usually our female associates and Baraniak behind us a row. This is the lineup you see with our friend Keggy in the graphic. I think Tyson started moving around, I forget. I'd have to ask him on Facebook. That was a really great year--the team was amazing, we'd polished our shtick together before, we had great contacts in the Ugrad section, primarily Wine, Majdi, and Roller, we won the home games against UNC and Maryland.

That year, I was 27, and I knew I couldn't do that jump-and-scream-for-hours thing much longer. (Remember, we did warmups too). I think some people are fortunate to lose their youth in a gradual fashion. Me, I knew I was done or about to be done rather abruptly. By February I knew I was going to MSU for a one-year visiting gig, so my unfinished dissertation was a gun pointed at my head, and I knew that Duke-UNC game that we won 70-65 would the end of any regular basketball attendance on my part. There are certain points in life when you foresee that everything will be different forever after that. Like the last week before you have your first kid. I knew I was done. I have a framed photo of that UNC game in my house, even though I've gotten less and less fanatical about Duke sports.

Fred and Bezanson graduated from lawskool in Spring 2004 and I graduated in Summer 2004 and moved to Mississippi in August. Tyson finished sometime between Spring 2004 and Spring 2005 and he and I went to graduation together in May 2005. I also came back in a rather flaccid fashion for one game in 2005 (Clemson), and I think Viking was out of town and Mullet and Baldy were there but no one else of the core group was--it was a break game. Thanks to Merry for the ticket that got me in, and the DVD of the game.

For 2004-05 and 2005-06, you'd have to ask Mullet and Viking about that. They still did it in 2004-05 but I'm not sure about 2005-06, and Viking finished in 2006-07 but I think he didn't do the Viking thing because he was finishing his diss, and he quit the Cameron thing after 2005-06. I'm not sure if they drafted new cast members. I'm also not sure when Kesseler finished. Boswell gave me a ticket upstairs in 2006-07 for the JJ retirement game, and Viking gave me a ride, but he didn't go to the game.

Later, after Viking was gone, some kid started wearing a Viking helmet in the same area. This poor guy fell on stairs at Duke, and if what I've heard is accurate, fell, busted his head and died.

Point being, it was a very fluid situation. We were lucky that:

(a) BTBHG's group paved the way for us
(b) The turnover was gradual for a while
(c) We always got to be in the same spot, so people knew where to look for us
(d) We had some boss Ugrads to collaborate with
(e) The team was always good in those years

And yes, we consumed a LOT of ethyl alcohol before those games. How else do you act like a pogo stick when you're 27? 19, sure? 27, I need a little something else to get me through this. Past 30, no one sane acts like that. I'm 37, and if I tried to act like that now, I'd have an infarction.

Throaty buddy, you missed a classic tonight. I wish you could have been there. Mullet too. The old girl was rocking. The student turn out was truly awesome (well done Native and crew0 and the atmosphere was electric and outstanding. It was just short of a normal UNC crowd. Standing room bleachers were packed to the max and the students were on the A Game. A joy to see. I texted my wife shortly after settling in and said this is awesome. A great Cameron crowd. I think it would have rekindled some of the old fire you used to have back in the day. And the players needed every bit of that energy to pull out the hard fought victory against a Terp team playing at a high level.

Not sure if this is relevant but wanted to share my personal feeling on something. I do everything possible to get a ticket to every single game. However, when the only ticket available is for the standing room tickets in 17 and 19, I turn them down every time and just watch on TV. Reason being, I just don't feel right being in those sections. One, I was never a student at Duke, and two, I am well beyond College age. To me those sections are just special and should be reserved for real Crazies, aka DUke Students. I recognize that during Christmas break they have to open it up to the public and put fake Crazies in the seats, but I cannot tell you how ridiculous the 30, 40, 50, 60 something aged folks look in those sections. Most are dying for the standing halfway into the first half, and trying to keep up with the cheers. (Most don;t and end up just staring at the game and not cheering at all. Anyway, maybe it is not fair/right to hold that view, but I promise you the day will never come when i use one of those tickets even if it means being relegated to Tv at home. just ain't gonna do it... Not my place to be there. I do feel comfortable in the upperbowl and I am an Iron Duke, so no problem being a "Crustie"

It may sound nuts but that is just how I feel about it...

tbyers11
02-15-2014, 10:28 PM
Throaty buddy, you missed a classic tonight. I wish you could have been there. Mullet too. The old girl was rocking. The student turn out was truly awesome (well done Native and crew0 and the atmosphere was electric and outstanding. It was just short of a normal UNC crowd. Standing room bleachers were packed to the max and the students were on the A Game. A joy to see. I texted my wife shortly after settling in and said this is awesome. A great Cameron crowd. I think it would have rekindled some of the old fire you used to have back in the day. And the players needed every bit of that energy to pull out the hard fought victory against a Terp team playing at a high level.

Newton_14, Glad to hear that Cameron was rocking. From my perspective at home watching on TV, the crowd didn't seem that loud at all. I know that the TV sound can vary greatly from game to game but I have watched many games where the crowd seemed more into it and loud than tonight. Do any other TV watchers have an opinion? I have a decent TV and sound setup but do I need to get a better one or did ESPN just turn down the ambient noise?

mpj96
02-16-2014, 06:59 AM
Newton_14, Glad to hear that Cameron was rocking. From my perspective at home watching on TV, the crowd didn't seem that loud at all. I know that the TV sound can vary greatly from game to game but I have watched many games where the crowd seemed more into it and loud than tonight. Do any other TV watchers have an opinion? I have a decent TV and sound setup but do I need to get a better one or did ESPN just turn down the ambient noise?

I was at CIS and came away with a very different impression than Newton_14. For long stretches of the game the crowd was very muted. The kids were dressed up but quiet by normal standards.

The end of the game the crowd came alive, upper and lower.

Olympic Fan
02-16-2014, 12:29 PM
I was at CIS and came away with a very different impression than Newton_14. For long stretches of the game the crowd was very muted. The kids were dressed up but quiet by normal standards.

The end of the game the crowd came alive, upper and lower.

I share this view. In fact, at one point in the second half, just as Maryland was starting their comeback, I turned to a friend and said, "I've never seen Cameron this quiet for a big game."

The crowd was much like the Pitt crowd two weeks ago -- they were loud when something good happened, but would lose focus when things weren't going their way. They finally got up and made some noise after Rodney's two free throws cut it to 67-66 ... that was the first defensive possession that generated any heat from the crowd.

Plus, I was hoping for some cleverness for Maryland's final visit ... nothing but stale stuff -- an early chant of Not Our Rival and a late chant of ACC ... ACC (very short because he couldn't really celebrate until Amile was fouled with 1.1 second left). Not even a chorus of "Amen".

VERY weak sauce from the Crazies.

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-16-2014, 12:57 PM
I share this view. In fact, at one point in the second half, just as Maryland was starting their comeback, I turned to a friend and said, "I've never seen Cameron this quiet for a big game."

The crowd was much like the Pitt crowd two weeks ago -- they were loud when something good happened, but would lose focus when things weren't going their way. They finally got up and made some noise after Rodney's two free throws cut it to 67-66 ... that was the first defensive possession that generated any heat from the crowd.

Plus, I was hoping for some cleverness for Maryland's final visit ... nothing but stale stuff -- an early chant of Not Our Rival and a late chant of ACC ... ACC (very short because he couldn't really celebrate until Amile was fouled with 1.1 second left). Not even a chorus of "Amen".

VERY weak sauce from the Crazies.
A good indicator of how many of the students present are not regulars can be in noticing how many "O"s you hear during the anthem. Over the last three years that obnoxious practice has been eliminated. Obviously last night there were many in the student section who hadn't darkened Cameron's door in a long, long time or they would have known that that was passe. If they didn't know THAT then they also probably didn't know what else was expected of them these days in CIS. It's not surprising to see casual observers holding down seats lose focus when their support is needed most.

Props to the Upper Crusties above the rail this year. They've stood for prolonged periods and cheered more than I've seen them do in my 40 years in Cameron. So proud to be one of ya! Go Duke!

Love, Ima

Des Esseintes
02-16-2014, 01:14 PM
A good indicator of how many of the students present are not regulars can be in noticing how many "O"s you hear during the anthem. Over the last three years that obnoxious practice has been eliminated. Obviously last night there were many in the student section who hadn't darkened Cameron's door in a long, long time or they would have known that that was passe. If they didn't know THAT then they also probably didn't know what else was expected of them these days in CIS. It's not surprising to see casual observers holding down seats lose focus when their support is needed most.


I'm not sure this is fully accurate. I was an undergraduate '99-'03, and the "O" was disallowed, if not shortly before my arrival, then during my time. (Sorry for the fuzziness.) People have done it sporadically down to today, largely because it's fun, but most have acceded to K's request not to. If I had to guess why you saw it more last night than usual, I would say people were extra-jacked for the game against MD and wanted a little frisson of rulebreaking. Why that didn't translate into more energy in the arena, I have no idea. But the "O" has been verboten far longer than any undergraduate currently at Duke.

tbyers11
02-16-2014, 01:19 PM
I'm not sure this is fully accurate. I was an undergraduate '99-'03, and the "O" was disallowed, if not shortly before my arrival, then during my time. (Sorry for the fuzziness.) People have done it sporadically down to today, largely because it's fun, but most have acceded to K's request not to. If I had to guess why you saw it more last night than usual, I would say people were extra-jacked for the game against MD and wanted a little frisson of rulebreaking. Why that didn't translate into more energy in the arena, I have no idea. But the "O" has been verboten far longer than any undergraduate currently at Duke.

Or the MD fans in the audience could have been the ones chanting the "O". Makes sense to me as it is an Orioles tradition.

greybeard
02-16-2014, 01:30 PM
Newton, yes.

Greybeard, I'd be rather surprised if Duke invented pointing at someone and shouting stuff. I know we think we invented everything, but we didn't.

Maybe so, but the Crazies did put it on the map, added a little something-something to it, that for an old school guy did not sit well. Now I think it fine, and, at their best, the crazies probably are. Glad to read that K has set the bar to demand that of them.

Devil in the Blue Dress
02-16-2014, 02:41 PM
A good indicator of how many of the students present are not regulars can be in noticing how many "O"s you hear during the anthem. Over the last three years that obnoxious practice has been eliminated. Obviously last night there were many in the student section who hadn't darkened Cameron's door in a long, long time or they would have known that that was passe. If they didn't know THAT then they also probably didn't know what else was expected of them these days in CIS. It's not surprising to see casual observers holding down seats lose focus when their support is needed most.

Props to the Upper Crusties above the rail this year. They've stood for prolonged periods and cheered more than I've seen them do in my 40 years in Cameron. So proud to be one of ya! Go Duke!

Love, Ima
The loud, sustained "O" was from a group of Maryland fans way up against the wall near the American flag. They were able to times to project remarkably loud cheers for their team, partly because of their location.

throatybeard
02-16-2014, 03:25 PM
A good indicator of how many of the students present are not regulars can be in noticing how many "O"s you hear during the anthem. Over the last three years that obnoxious practice has been eliminated.

Oh, thank God. Praise eight pound, six ounce, newborn infant Jesus. That had to be by far the dumbest practice in Cameron.


Not sure if this is relevant but wanted to share my personal feeling on something. I do everything possible to get a ticket to every single game. However, when the only ticket available is for the standing room tickets in 17 and 19, I turn them down every time and just watch on TV. Reason being, I just don't feel right being in those sections. One, I was never a student at Duke, and two, I am well beyond College age. To me those sections are just special and should be reserved for real Crazies, aka DUke Students. I recognize that during Christmas break they have to open it up to the public and put fake Crazies in the seats, but I cannot tell you how ridiculous the 30, 40, 50, 60 something aged folks look in those sections. Most are dying for the standing halfway into the first half, and trying to keep up with the cheers. (Most don;t and end up just staring at the game and not cheering at all. Anyway, maybe it is not fair/right to hold that view, but I promise you the day will never come when i use one of those tickets even if it means being relegated to Tv at home. just ain't gonna do it... Not my place to be there. I do feel comfortable in the upperbowl and I am an Iron Duke, so no problem being a "Crustie"

It may sound nuts but that is just how I feel about it...

100% agreement. Age is age, as Lester Freamon says. We don't put Jeff Mullins in the games anymore.

I am perfectly comfortable being encrusted.

DBFAN
02-16-2014, 04:12 PM
For Several years now, I have felt that the crazies have gotten quite boring. Not saying that anyone is obligated to be creative at a basketball game, bit the only chant over the last 5 years that is clever ( to me at least) is the "you let the whole team down". If there are others, not enough of them do it to be heard. When I was a kid I used to love their sarcasm and arrogance. My fav thing they used to do was this sarcastic Ohhhhh when a player from another team made some highlight dunk, like that didn't impress them at all.

Yesterday I noticed as well, that when the crowd was intense and loud, Maryland couldn't hold on to the ball. PG had a very hard time brining it up the court But those moments were non existent when we got out to an 8 or 9 pt lead. The crowd would just disappear. Obviously the team has a lot to do with that, but I just wish the crowd would stay involved for longer periods of time

Newton_14
02-16-2014, 05:50 PM
I don't know guys, i mean I respect what everyone else who were there felt with the crowd but for me it was really good. Leading up to the tip it was just awesome. Electric, great atmoshere, loud. I felt it stayed that way throughout the first half. It did get somewhat quiet when Maryland made their run, but during the last 3 minutes Crazies and Crusties were on their feet, making a lot of noise. I definitely thought it helped the players. Only times my buddy sitting beside me could hear me was during free throws or timeouts.

Just how I saw it.

summerwind03
02-16-2014, 07:29 PM
I don't know guys, i mean I respect what everyone else who were there felt with the crowd but for me it was really good. Leading up to the tip it was just awesome. Electric, great atmoshere, loud. I felt it stayed that way throughout the first half. It did get somewhat quiet when Maryland made their run, but during the last 3 minutes Crazies and Crusties were on their feet, making a lot of noise. I definitely thought it helped the players. Only times my buddy sitting beside me could hear me was during free throws or timeouts.

Just how I saw it.
I thought it was a fairly good crowd as well.

Did anyone mention the sign--"We are never ever getting back together!"? That one is still making me giggle.

Newton_14
02-16-2014, 07:33 PM
I thought it was a fairly good crowd as well.

Did anyone mention the sign--"We are never ever getting back together!"? That one is still making me giggle.
So glad you brought that up! I meant to mention it and never got around to it. I thought that sign, (Playing on the famous Taylor Swift song) was a classic and easily the best, most creative sign at the game. major props to whoever came up with that.

OldPhiKap
02-16-2014, 07:42 PM
I thought it was a fairly good crowd as well.

Did anyone mention the sign--"We are never ever getting back together!"? That one is still making me giggle.

Pretty sure I dated her mother.

Troublemaker
02-16-2014, 08:14 PM
I thought it was a fairly good crowd as well.

Did anyone mention the sign--"We are never ever getting back together!"? That one is still making me giggle.

I thought the sign was clever, too. It was shown on TV and commented on by the broadcasting team -- a chuckle from Doris Burke and perfunctory razzing of her male play-by-play partner [Dave O'brien?] for knowing the song.

Indoor66
02-17-2014, 09:48 AM
I thought it was a fairly good crowd as well.

Did anyone mention the sign--"We are never ever getting back together!"? That one is still making me giggle.

You mean this one? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA4iX5D9Z64)

Dev11
02-17-2014, 10:37 AM
The loud, sustained "O" was from a group of Maryland fans way up against the wall near the American flag. They were able to times to project remarkably loud cheers for their team, partly because of their location.

I was sitting in front of them. Most of the 'O,' and for that matter most of the pro-Maryland noise, seemed to be coming from them. The students started directing their ire up to the group behind me sometime early in the second half.

They were pretty quiet as they walked out.

Tripping William
02-17-2014, 04:15 PM
I attended the game on Saturday as well. The only comment I'll add that I have not seen mentioned is that, shortly after halftime (after Mitchell made his two buckets to cut the Duke lead to 39-37 and after Duke took its timeout), there was that sequence at about the 18:30 mark where Sulaimon missed a 3, Thornton rebounded, Hood missed a 3, Thornton rebounded, and Hood drilled a 3 to give Duke a 42-37 lead. K exploded, clearly waving his arms for the crowd to make noise. At the time I said to myself, "Yeah, this crowd *does* need that bit of encouragement right now."

the_grad_student
02-17-2014, 04:38 PM
I attended the game on Saturday as well. The only comment I'll add that I have not seen mentioned is that, shortly after halftime (after Mitchell made his two buckets to cut the Duke lead to 39-37 and after Duke took its timeout), there was that sequence at about the 18:30 mark where Sulaimon missed a 3, Thornton rebounded, Hood missed a 3, Thornton rebounded, and Hood drilled a 3 to give Duke a 42-37 lead. K exploded, clearly waving his arms for the crowd to make noise. At the time I said to myself, "Yeah, this crowd *does* need that bit of encouragement right now."

He couldn't be too upset with the crowd overall - after the game he said the following from http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20140215_MD@DUKE/no-8-duke-holds-on-to-beat-maryland-in-cameron-send-off:

"That was vintage Cameron, man," Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said. "That was one for the ages."

Tripping William
02-17-2014, 04:51 PM
He couldn't be too upset with the crowd overall - after the game he said the following from http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20140215_MD@DUKE/no-8-duke-holds-on-to-beat-maryland-in-cameron-send-off:

"That was vintage Cameron, man," Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said. "That was one for the ages."

Yes, I saw that in his post-game presser. But the two are not mutually exclusive.

Henderson
02-17-2014, 06:18 PM
Mark Turgeon said after the Duke-Maryland game that he's going to miss the Duke-Maryland rivalry a lot.

What a crock. First, there never was any rivalry except in the head of some deranged turtles. Second, Turgeon has been at Maryland all of 2 ½ years, and his only 2 wins against Duke were last year. Before that, he was never even in the ACC, either as a player or a coach.

throatybeard
02-17-2014, 06:43 PM
For Several years now, I have felt that the crazies have gotten quite boring. Not saying that anyone is obligated to be creative at a basketball game, bit the only chant over the last 5 years that is clever ( to me at least) is the "you let the whole team down". If there are others, not enough of them do it to be heard. When I was a kid I used to love their sarcasm and arrogance. My fav thing they used to do was this sarcastic Ohhhhh when a player from another team made some highlight dunk, like that didn't impress them at all.

I'm fine with this. I've long contended that the "creativity" metric is overrated, and largely borne out of a self-congratulatory impulse about wheee, we're such clever Duke people. Even when more kids went to the games, if you're really honest with yourself, no matter when you were in school, you weren't as non-stop hilarious as you think you were. There were probably a couple pee-in-your-pants funny things per season. Like in this thread, people are talking about the Phalanx in sepia tones, but honestly, we didn't come up with that much I would deem "creative." Mostly we did stuff like shout at Clemson during warm ups about how they'd be better if Woodrow Dantzler played basketball. We managed to coordinate call-response cheers for Duhon with the undergrads. (Warm it up Chris/I'm about to). This isn't exactly writing King Lear.

Furthermore, our esteemed coach's penchant for talking us out of being boorish limits what you can do. In 1996, we thought it was "creative" and hilarious to make posters about Jeff McInnis and Phil Ford's wife, and Jamison and Carter, um, together. I'd like to think that sort of stuff isn't happening now.

Here's what I want from the Crazies, and even then I'm not going to be upset if it doesn't happen.

1) Show up.
2) Be loud.
3) No, really loud.
4) Like, sustained loud.
5) Because loud.

And even if that doesn't happen, I'll sit on my butt six states away and not lament how much better it was when Wojo or Bob Verga severed the beer. I mean, I'm sure as heck not driving 900 miles and being louder.

blazindw
02-17-2014, 08:10 PM
Here's what I want from the Crazies, and even then I'm not going to be upset if it doesn't happen.

1) Show up.
2) Be loud.
3) No, really loud.
4) Like, sustained loud.
5) Because loud.

I'm with you on this. So loud that the other team can't think. Through all of the creativity, my favorite moments in Cameron were where we were so loud that if I screamed in my neighbor's face, s/he wouldn't hear it.

-jk
02-17-2014, 08:15 PM
I'm with you on this. So loud that the other team can't think. Through all of the creativity, my favorite moments in Cameron were where we were so loud that if I screamed in my neighbor's face, s/he wouldn't hear it.

Hmm... Sometimes it gets so loud the D can't communicate. Then it's too loud. Doesn't happen too often, but it happens.

-jk

throatybeard
02-17-2014, 08:31 PM
I'm with you on this. So loud that the other team can't think. Through all of the creativity, my favorite moments in Cameron were where we were so loud that if I screamed in my neighbor's face, s/he wouldn't hear it.

Everybody likes to talk about what the loudest was when they were there was, and then they like to assert that the four years they were there was the loudest it ever got. You see a lot of UNC games recycled.

I don't own a decibel meter, and I was only there eight years. But there's one loud people don't talk about all that much that still weirds me out.

It was against Georgia Tech in 2002. That's where, the next day the Raleigh Daily Tar Heel, I mean, the Raleigh News and Observer put Coach K on the cover of the sports section and alleged that he was at the forefront of some new wave of incivility.

Coach K's sin was to wave his arms up twice, maybe three times for us to get loud. And loud we got. I bet you remember this one, DW, as it was your soph year I think. It wasn't an organic, oh, Trajan just hit the climactic three against Carolina loud (1997), but rather a loud when we accepted a charge from our fearless leader to get loud with no other purpose than getting loud.

When I got home, I told my wife that my ears hurt two hours later. Memory is fallible, but that's the one that stands out in my years (1994-98, 2000-04) in my head.

gep
02-17-2014, 08:43 PM
He couldn't be too upset with the crowd overall - after the game he said the following from http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/gametracker/recap/NCAAB_20140215_MD@DUKE/no-8-duke-holds-on-to-beat-maryland-in-cameron-send-off:

"That was vintage Cameron, man," Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski said. "That was one for the ages."

Interesting... when I heard Coach K say that in his post-game comments, I took that comment of Cameron and "one for the ages" as more that Cameron brings out the best in teams which results in great games... both teams playing hard to the end :cool:

-jk
02-17-2014, 08:44 PM
Everybody likes to talk about what the loudest was when they were there was, and then they like to assert that the four years they were there was the loudest it ever got. You see a lot of UNC games recycled.

I don't own a decibel meter, and I was only there eight years. But there's one loud people don't talk about all that much that still weirds me out.

It was against Georgia Tech in 2002. That's where, the next day the Raleigh Daily Tar Heel, I mean, the Raleigh News and Observer put Coach K on the cover of the sports section and alleged that he was at the forefront of some new wave of incivility.

Coach K's sin was to wave his arms up twice, maybe three times for us to get loud. And loud we got. I bet you remember this one, DW, as it was your soph year I think. It wasn't an organic, oh, Trajan just hit the climactic three against Carolina loud (1997), but rather a loud when we accepted a charge from our fearless leader to get loud with no other purpose than getting loud.

When I got home, I told my wife that my ears hurt two hours later. Memory is fallible, but that's the one that stands out in my years (1994-98, 2000-04) in my head.

Meh! Two hours! I routinely drive home to DC after games. If my ears aren't still ringing when I get home, it wasn't loud.

That said, the Banks game in '81 was the loudest I've heard. Maybe youthful, wishful thinking. But I couldn't hear the band playing Devil over and over.

-jk

blazindw
02-17-2014, 09:02 PM
Everybody likes to talk about what the loudest was when they were there was, and then they like to assert that the four years they were there was the loudest it ever got. You see a lot of UNC games recycled.

I don't own a decibel meter, and I was only there eight years. But there's one loud people don't talk about all that much that still weirds me out.

It was against Georgia Tech in 2002. That's where, the next day the Raleigh Daily Tar Heel, I mean, the Raleigh News and Observer put Coach K on the cover of the sports section and alleged that he was at the forefront of some new wave of incivility.

Coach K's sin was to wave his arms up twice, maybe three times for us to get loud. And loud we got. I bet you remember this one, DW, as it was your soph year I think. It wasn't an organic, oh, Trajan just hit the climactic three against Carolina loud (1997), but rather a loud when we accepted a charge from our fearless leader to get loud with no other purpose than getting loud.

When I got home, I told my wife that my ears hurt two hours later. Memory is fallible, but that's the one that stands out in my years (1994-98, 2000-04) in my head.

Hands down the loudest moment of my 4 years in Cameron. Not even close. My voice was nonexistent for a week. My '06 friends look back on that game with envy whenever I talk about it (and it's probably once a month or so) because they were high school seniors that year and I hold it over them that they never had any moment as loud as that in Cameron.

DU82
02-17-2014, 09:09 PM
Meh! Two hours! I routinely drive home to DC after games. If my ears aren't still ringing when I get home, it wasn't loud.

That said, the Banks game in '81 was the loudest I've heard. Maybe youthful, wishful thinking. But I couldn't hear the band playing Devil over and over.

-jk

WE couldn't hear us play, it was so loud and we were so excited after his last second shot that we didn't realize we played it three times (instead of twice, as we was the routine at that time.)

About the only time since that came close was Jeff Capel's three in '95.

(I believe the sound baffles have changed, IIRC after the '86 season, so sound doesn't resonate as much as it did before.)

Newton_14
02-17-2014, 09:11 PM
I'm fine with this. I've long contended that the "creativity" metric is overrated, and largely borne out of a self-congratulatory impulse about wheee, we're such clever Duke people. Even when more kids went to the games, if you're really honest with yourself, no matter when you were in school, you weren't as non-stop hilarious as you think you were. There were probably a couple pee-in-your-pants funny things per season. Like in this thread, people are talking about the Phalanx in sepia tones, but honestly, we didn't come up with that much I would deem "creative." Mostly we did stuff like shout at Clemson during warm ups about how they'd be better if Woodrow Dantzler played basketball. We managed to coordinate call-response cheers for Duhon with the undergrads. (Warm it up Chris/I'm about to). This isn't exactly writing King Lear.

Furthermore, our esteemed coach's penchant for talking us out of being boorish limits what you can do. In 1996, we thought it was "creative" and hilarious to make posters about Jeff McInnis and Phil Ford's wife, and Jamison and Carter, um, together. I'd like to think that sort of stuff isn't happening now.

Here's what I want from the Crazies, and even then I'm not going to be upset if it doesn't happen.

1) Show up.
2) Be loud.
3) No, really loud.
4) Like, sustained loud.
5) Because loud.

And even if that doesn't happen, I'll sit on my butt six states away and not lament how much better it was when Wojo or Bob Verga severed the beer. I mean, I'm sure as heck not driving 900 miles and being louder.

The bold part is really the key, and anything beyond that is gravy. i know it was a UNC game which makes it different but I offer a prime example. The 2011 UNC game. Vintage Duke/unc Crazies crowd, but here is the thing. unc was absolutely kicking our tails from the opening tip to somewhere around the 12 minute mark of the 2nd half (I may be off there not sure) when the comeback was starting to kick in. However, from the opening tip on it was incredibly loud. The Crazies just refused to shut up. If you were standing in the hallway not looking in or at the scoreboard, the noise levels would have given you the thought that Duke was winning that entire time. instead they were down double digits for a large portion of that time.

That accomplishes two very important things. 1. It had to be disheartening to the unc players. They had to be like "What the hay? We are killing these dudes and their fans are screaming like Duke is winning. what on earth will it take to shut them up? 2. It provides an incredible amount of energy for the Duke players. Anyone who does not believe in the 6th man factor is absolutely clueless. It matters. That sustained noise fuels the Duke players with energy and adrenaline and helps them keep fighting. They feed off of it.

When there is sustained noise in Cameron, it is just electric and creates an atmosphere and energy level that cannot be described, it can only be experienced. My favorite part is when they are screaming "OH" "OH" and jumping in sync side to side. That is just really cool and awesome.

Keeping a sustained "loudness" of noise via either yelling/screamig/jumping up and down or leading a cheer is the key to helping the players. That should be goal number 1 game over game.

MulletMan
02-17-2014, 09:20 PM
Everybody likes to talk about what the loudest was when they were there was, and then they like to assert that the four years they were there was the loudest it ever got. You see a lot of UNC games recycled.

I don't own a decibel meter, and I was only there eight years. But there's one loud people don't talk about all that much that still weirds me out.

It was against Georgia Tech in 2002. That's where, the next day the Raleigh Daily Tar Heel, I mean, the Raleigh News and Observer put Coach K on the cover of the sports section and alleged that he was at the forefront of some new wave of incivility.

Coach K's sin was to wave his arms up twice, maybe three times for us to get loud. And loud we got. I bet you remember this one, DW, as it was your soph year I think. It wasn't an organic, oh, Trajan just hit the climactic three against Carolina loud (1997), but rather a loud when we accepted a charge from our fearless leader to get loud with no other purpose than getting loud.

When I got home, I told my wife that my ears hurt two hours later. Memory is fallible, but that's the one that stands out in my years (1994-98, 2000-04) in my head.

For reals. It was ridiculously loud.

Closest I heard after that was 05 UNC. But I consider that the peak of The Phalanx in Cameron (and definitely my personal best). We had everyone involved that night including the upstairs, but we played it right with them. We asked hem to get up 2 or 3 times the entire game, and we did it when the TV timeouts were ending not starting so the noise was sustained.

If you watch the end of that game, as he ball rolls out past Shav, there should be time left on the clock, but it's so loud you can't hear the whistles, or the horn, or pretty much anything.

We have a great picture of me and Viking laying at center court after the game.

greybeard
02-17-2014, 11:51 PM
Imagine you are Turgeon, you get hired by Maryland, you pinch yourself, the ACC. The experience of Duke-Maryland, the defining moment of the ACC, you have not just arrived, you have ARRIVED. You are not getting much from your team, they come into Cameron, and they ball. It get's better? No one thinks that.

-jk
02-18-2014, 12:17 AM
Imagine you are Turgeon, you get hired by Maryland, you pinch yourself, the ACC. The experience of Duke-Maryland, the defining moment of the ACC, you have not just arrived, you have ARRIVED. You are not getting much from your team, they come into Cameron, and they ball. It get's better? No one thinks that.

Better? Think about it! We get Iowa! Minnesota! Nebraska! Heck, we get Rutgers, too. In winter, even! What's not to love? (Heh!)

-jk

throatybeard
02-18-2014, 01:17 AM
We have a great picture of me and Viking laying at center court after the game.

^ I'm very progressive, but I don't really want to hear about y'all's personal life.

No, yeah, The 2005 home game must have been amazing. I watched it on TV in MS and JJ played the most amazing defense of JJ's Duke life on that final possession. I bet it was loud.

I think what's most important here is that everyone cherishes their best two or three louds, when they were around. I'm sure it was loud during the Fred Lind game. I'm sure it was loud during the Robbie West game. I know that when Trajan hit that shot in 1997, breaking our seven-game losing streak to Carolina, it honestly looked like the humidity was raining down with his shot, and the loud fell with it. I watch the YouTube of the 1998 UNC game like it's a religious text. But everybody had their era, and I'm sure the loud happened at least once during their time.

At the end of the day, I'm far more impressed with your loud than I am with your cleverest chant.

Although I am partial to "Luftpohl" chanted at Detlef Schrempf.

BD80
02-18-2014, 05:13 AM
Pretty sure I dated her mother.

You dated Taylor Swift's mother? Pretty cool.

captmojo
02-18-2014, 04:40 PM
The best measurement for the loudness lately, for those of us watching on TV, is when it can drown out the never-ending drone that keeps the crystal vibrating in Doris Burke's microphone. I think the only thing she likes better than the sound of her own voice, is any sound of praise that can laud the mighty holes.

Duvall
02-28-2014, 06:37 PM
Better? Think about it! We get Iowa! Minnesota! Nebraska! Heck, we get Rutgers, too. In winter, even! What's not to love? (Heh!)

-jk

Feel the excitement! (http://www.bigten.org/blog/2014/02/2014-15-big-ten-mens-basketball-matchups-set.html)


MARYLAND
Home: Michigan, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Away: Illinois, Iowa, Ohio State, Purdue
Home/Away: Indiana, Michigan State, Nebraska, Penn State, Rutgers


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja3Die31ihk

Here is a Turtle
02-28-2014, 08:59 PM
Home: Michigan, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Away: Illinois, Iowa, Ohio State, Purdue
Home/Away: Indiana, Michigan State, Nebraska, Penn State, Rutgers


I remember Turgeon and Frese were not happy about the move at all. They were about as blindsided by it as everyone else. He definitely got a raw deal. He was expecting to coach in the ACC so I can understand being upset even though the Big Ten is a really good basketball conference.
Maryland's basketball is not a terrible schedule.

A rising Northwestern, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, and Michigan St., and the potential ACC team is (I'm assuming we get them considering we've been on the road for two years in a row) at home. Fun matches in there. You can choose to look at Rutgers or Nebraska if you want. I'll look at the positive.

throatybeard
02-28-2014, 09:06 PM
I remember Turgeon and Frese were not happy about the move at all. They were about as blindsided by it as everyone else. He definitely got a raw deal. He was expecting to coach in the ACC so I can understand being upset even though the Big Ten is a really good basketball conference.
Maryland's basketball is not a terrible schedule.

A rising Northwestern, Wisconsin, Michigan, Indiana, and Michigan St., and the potential ACC team is (I'm assuming we get them considering we've been on the road for two years in a row) at home. Fun matches in there. You can choose to look at Rutgers or Nebraska if you want. I'll look at the positive.

Good sir: we respectfully request that, by 1 July, beginning of the new fiscal, you change your screen name to "There went a Turtle."

plzkthx

Here is a Turtle
03-01-2014, 12:51 PM
I will actually consider that.

BluDvlsN1
03-01-2014, 02:08 PM
The intent of this thread is behavior at the games, that's understood.

I would like to take another tack on that subject. It's clear that for their own reasons, there are those that love to hate Duke. Let's not give them cause.

I would submit that it goes beyond game and game day. When we wear our Duke gear in public, in a fashion, we represent that which we love and respect.

Sunday of last week after the 'Cuse game, I found myself on an Avis shuttle bus at the Raleigh airport. I no sooner got seated right next a Duke sports fan wearing cap and jacket. I was about to comment but he was in the middle of a diatribe on the bus driver for stopping and a designated bus stop to pick up passengers. Not only was his behavior boorish, ill mannered and wholly uncalled for,He made a spectacle of himself,all the while sporting his Duke gear.

I privately suggested to him off the bus,he trade his gear on for another team's if he chooses to behave so poorly. He was so unaware, he said are you talking to me? I said indeed I was.

As a fan base, I believe we should represent what is best of Duke and it's values at all times.

Just my take on it.