PDA

View Full Version : MBB: LSU 87, Kentucky 82



OldPhiKap
01-28-2014, 10:52 PM
LSU over Kentucky by eleven, 6 minutes to go.

chaosmage
01-28-2014, 10:54 PM
Wait... they have basketball? To hear their fans talk, all they care about is football. Did I miss something?

FerryFor50
01-28-2014, 10:56 PM
LSU over Kentucky by eleven, 6 minutes to go.

LSU by 14 with 5 min to go

chaosmage
01-28-2014, 10:57 PM
Good. I have issues with LSU from Big Baby a few years back, but anyone that beats Kentucky makes me happy.

OldPhiKap
01-28-2014, 10:59 PM
Good. I have issues with LSU from Big Baby a few years back, but anyone that beats Kentucky makes me happy.

Still a game with three to go . . . .

Dukehky
01-28-2014, 11:08 PM
St John's put a scare into Creighton, but the Jays have that McDermott kid, who is apparently pretty good. 39 and a game winning 3. That kid can ball and may be the unanimous player of the year. Most famous son of Ames, Iowa hands down.

Duke79UNLV77
01-28-2014, 11:08 PM
Kentucky has 1 win over a ranked team and 0 wins over a top-25 RPI team. They're one of those teams that has built its RPI by beating a bunch of mediocre teams and not playing too many terrible teams.

By comparison, we have 5 wins over RPI top-26 teams.

FerryFor50
01-28-2014, 11:12 PM
For all the press Julius Randle gets, James Young is Kentucky's best player...

FerryFor50
01-28-2014, 11:14 PM
LSU is trying to give this one away with missed FTs and Kentucky hitting threes late...

El_Diablo
01-28-2014, 11:16 PM
What just happened?

FerryFor50
01-28-2014, 11:18 PM
Valiant comeback attempt falls short for Kentucky. Cut 12 pt lead in last 2 min, but lost by 5.

Geaux Tigers!

OldPhiKap
01-28-2014, 11:18 PM
What just happened?

Kentucky too young to realize game-time situation.

See 'ya Wildcats.

luburch
01-28-2014, 11:41 PM
In the last year and a half Kentucky is 7-15 away from Rupp.

kAzE
01-29-2014, 07:17 AM
As bad as we were earlier in the year, at least we never had major issues with effort. This is just too funny:

http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/calshove.gif

Bob Green
01-29-2014, 07:37 AM
In the last year and a half Kentucky is 7-15 away from Rupp.

Which is charateristic of a young team. Over the long run, Calipari's model will not work. Perhaps he will find success here and there, but I anticipate a lot of angst in Lexington moving forward, as the basketball program is mired in mediocrity.

sagegrouse
01-29-2014, 08:27 AM
As bad as we were earlier in the year, at least we never had major issues with effort. This is just too funny:

http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/calshove.gif

In the video, Cal edges out on the court and pushes a Wildcat player to get him in the right position. Isn't this cause for a suspension of the coach? I mean, getting in the middle of a play in a CBB game. The last time that happened that I know of, Woody Hayes punched a Clemson player in a bowl game and never coached again.

OldPhiKap
01-29-2014, 08:31 AM
In the video, Cal edges out on the court and pushes a Wildcat player to get him in the right position. Isn't this cause for a suspension of the coach? I mean, getting in the middle of a play in a CBB game. The last time that happened that I know of, Woody Hayes punched a Clemson player in a bowl game and never coached again.

If the Steelers need a new coach, Cal may be the man.

Dev11
01-29-2014, 08:31 AM
In the video, Cal edges out on the court and pushes a Wildcat player to get him in the right position. Isn't this cause for a suspension of the coach? I mean, getting in the middle of a play in a CBB game. The last time that happened that I know of, Woody Hayes punched a Clemson player in a bowl game and never coached again.

I don't think Cal shoving his own player into position is exactly like Woody Hayes punching an opposing player, but I wouldn't be surprised if he gets reprimanded with a game suspension for it.

oldnavy
01-29-2014, 09:11 AM
St John's put a scare into Creighton, but the Jays have that McDermott kid, who is apparently pretty good. 39 and a game winning 3. That kid can ball and may be the unanimous player of the year. Most famous son of Ames, Iowa hands down.

Is that a snub to the world renowned, first freshman pre-season AA, Black Falcon????

roywhite
01-29-2014, 09:28 AM
Which is charateristic of a young team. Over the long run, Calipari's model will not work. Perhaps he will find success here and there, but I anticipate a lot of angst in Lexington moving forward, as the basketball program is mired in mediocrity.

I'd say it can work, but not consistently.

Looking back, they had an exceptional player in 2012 in Anthony Davis, plus considerable talent around him, and not all of the talented players were freshmen. They have had plenty of talent come along since then, but no Anthony Davis type, who was a defensive stopper and a force on offense, even as he developed. And it seems like the mix of one-and-done freshmen and a few upperclassmen is hard to achieve and certainly takes time to develop.

I don't mind seeing Big Blue take a few lumps.

howardlander
01-29-2014, 09:30 AM
As bad as we were earlier in the year, at least we never had major issues with effort. This is just too funny:

http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/calshove.gif

Yeah,I was watching when this happened. How is that not a technical foul?

Howard

oldnavy
01-29-2014, 09:37 AM
Yeah,I was watching when this happened. How is that not a technical foul?

Howard

It is, I just assume that the refs didn't see it... I bet that will be the refs explanation at least.

howardlander
01-29-2014, 09:43 AM
It is, I just assume that the refs didn't see it... I bet that will be the refs explanation at least.

Ah, thanks. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, the SEC office says..

OldPhiKap
01-29-2014, 09:44 AM
Ah, thanks. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, the SEC office says..

You mean that Cal didn't self-report?

oldnavy
01-29-2014, 10:23 AM
You mean that Cal didn't self-report?

You know, in Cal's defense he doesn't get much time with his kids (one and dones), so he has to use real game "hands on" coaching to get his guys ready for the NBA... cut him some slack! :rolleyes:

COYS
01-29-2014, 10:24 AM
Which is charateristic of a young team. Over the long run, Calipari's model will not work. Perhaps he will find success here and there, but I anticipate a lot of angst in Lexington moving forward, as the basketball program is mired in mediocrity.

I don't know, Bob, is it possible that the best way for his model to work is to have an outstanding year followed by a disappointing year or two that keeps some of the recruits around for more than a season? Calipari got lucky back in 2012 that a few veterans including one and done candidate Terrance Jones had seasons that were just disappointing enough (despite reaching the Final Four) to prevent them from declaring for the draft. UK has immense talented this year, but it is young, as you point out. If a decent chunk of the young guys stick around for another season, UK could be far more balanced in terms of experience next year. Poythress will likely be around for a junior year and, with continued development, could really become quite the veteran glue guy/leader on the court. Granted, none of this is guaranteed and if the roster remains volatile from year to year, it probably lessens the chance of a perfect storm of talented frosh and experienced veterans combining for a title.

Nevertheless, so far Calipari has reached an Elite 8, a Final Four (with a very young team), won a title, and had a terrible (by UK standards) year. This year it's looking more like he will have a mid-level tourney team. However, that is far from a bad run over the past five seasons, even if this year falls into the disappointing quality. Calipari's approach is definitely a gamble, but if it pays off next season with a combination of great freshman joining a number of talented returnees and they add another Final Four to the list, it's hard to say that the model doesn't work over the long haul. I think perhaps we just have a difference in degrees. I don't think Calipari can have the same sustained success season in and season out like Coach K and (more recently, Bill Self) have had. However, I don't think that precludes him from having a good chance to rack up a good number of Final Fours.

That being said, I'll take the continued excellence of Coach K any day. It is comforting to know that even if Jabari and Rodney leave as expected, Duke will still have plenty of veteran hold overs in Amile, Quinn, Rasheed, Matt and Marshall (not to mention Semi). Come to think of it, I'd bet on our veterans to beat that a lineup of the newcomers Tyus, Grayson, Justise, Semi (putting him on the newcomers team since he's played less than Matt this season), and Jahlil. We are lucky to be Duke fans!

devildeac
01-29-2014, 10:28 AM
LSU is trying to give this one away with missed FTs and Kentucky hitting threes late...

It looked like Dale Brown was in the building. Fortunately for LSU, he was NOT on the sidelines coaching them last night with a double digit lead...

oldnavy
01-29-2014, 10:40 AM
I don't know, Bob, is it possible that the best way for his model to work is to have an outstanding year followed by a disappointing year or two that keeps some of the recruits around for more than a season? Calipari got lucky back in 2012 that a few veterans including one and done candidate Terrance Jones had seasons that were just disappointing enough (despite reaching the Final Four) to prevent them from declaring for the draft. UK has immense talented this year, but it is young, as you point out. If a decent chunk of the young guys stick around for another season, UK could be far more balanced in terms of experience next year. Poythress will likely be around for a junior year and, with continued development, could really become quite the veteran glue guy/leader on the court. Granted, none of this is guaranteed and if the roster remains volatile from year to year, it probably lessens the chance of a perfect storm of talented frosh and experienced veterans combining for a title.

Nevertheless, so far Calipari has reached an Elite 8, a Final Four (with a very young team), won a title, and had a terrible (by UK standards) year. This year it's looking more like he will have a mid-level tourney team. However, that is far from a bad run over the past five seasons, even if this year falls into the disappointing quality. Calipari's approach is definitely a gamble, but if it pays off next season with a combination of great freshman joining a number of talented returnees and they add another Final Four to the list, it's hard to say that the model doesn't work over the long haul. I think perhaps we just have a difference in degrees. I don't think Calipari can have the same sustained success season in and season out like Coach K and (more recently, Bill Self) have had. However, I don't think that precludes him from having a good chance to rack up a good number of Final Fours.

That being said, I'll take the continued excellence of Coach K any day. It is comforting to know that even if Jabari and Rodney leave as expected, Duke will still have plenty of veteran hold overs in Amile, Quinn, Rasheed, Matt and Marshall (not to mention Semi). Come to think of it, I'd bet on our veterans to beat that a lineup of the newcomers Tyus, Grayson, Justise, Semi (putting him on the newcomers team since he's played less than Matt this season), and Jahlil. We are lucky to be Duke fans!

One problem with what Cal is doing, is that IF his OAD kids DON't go to the NBA he gets a logjam with the incoming recruits... That can lead to many, many problems... if he forces the not quite ready for the NBA players out, then he takes a PR hit on his not "caring" for his kids.... if they stay and play in front of the frosh, then that is a problem, if they stay and don't get significant PT, well.... you see...

COYS
01-29-2014, 10:44 AM
One problem with what Cal is doing, is that IF his OAD kids DON't go to the NBA he gets a logjam with the incoming recruits... That can lead to many, many problems... if he forces the not quite ready for the NBA players out, then he takes a PR hit on his not "caring" for his kids.... if they stay and play in front of the frosh, then that is a problem, if they stay and don't get significant PT, well.... you see...

There are certainly risks, of course, but I'm just saying that I think the jury is still out on whether his model won't work over the long haul. I actually think the biggest weakness for him will be sustaining the same level of recruiting every single year. His recruiting has been phenomenal, but does his luck ever run out? He really NEEDS the top class (or at least a top 2 class) every season. Seeing a lot of OAD's walk out the door for the NBA followed by an incomplete class coming in could lead to a truly disastrous year.

BD80
01-29-2014, 10:46 AM
If the Steelers need a new coach, Cal may be the man.

I don't think Cal could prosper in any league that has a salary cap, UK is the place for him

I understand that Cal is a little concerned that he is going to lose draft picks once the league office reviews the tape

OldPhiKap
01-29-2014, 11:15 AM
I don't think Cal could prosper in any league that has a salary cap, UK is the place for him

I understand that Cal is a little concerned that he is going to lose draft picks once the league office reviews the tape

Cleveland State is in trouble.

Bob Green
01-29-2014, 11:31 AM
There are certainly risks, of course, but I'm just saying that I think the jury is still out on whether his model won't work over the long haul.

I'll concede the jury is still out seeing as Cal's results to date have been impressive. My confidence level that his model will not work in the long run is very high.


I actually think the biggest weakness for him will be sustaining the same level of recruiting every single year.

Agreed! Life is cyclic. Cal's recruiting will hit a down cycle at some point.

timmy c
01-29-2014, 11:46 AM
There are certainly risks, of course, but I'm just saying that I think the jury is still out on whether his model won't work over the long haul. I actually think the biggest weakness for him will be sustaining the same level of recruiting every single year. His recruiting has been phenomenal, but does his luck ever run out? He really NEEDS the top class (or at least a top 2 class) every season. Seeing a lot of OAD's walk out the door for the NBA followed by an incomplete class coming in could lead to a truly disastrous year.

Coys and oldnavy,
Interesting discussion about the viability of UK's strategy. Thanks.

I have to wonder what effect a jr. Like kyle Wiltjer would have had on this team. Was the biggest recruiting miss that Cal had last year his inability to keep Wiltjer from transferring?

I think Cal' strategy is evolving. This past recruiting class had some 2-4 year players sprinkled in.
I wonder if Cal can convince the twins back? If they come back, will they learn how to play without sulking?
Will Dakari stick around? He was the hardest working player on the court last night. He could provide a great example to future players on what it takes to win at the college level.
Hawkins could be a player in another year or two.

Lots of questions after a bad loss. Still time this season to turn it around.

tommy
01-29-2014, 11:50 AM
I watched the second half of this game, and LSU dominated it. Kentucky hit four 3 pointers in the last minute and change to make the fiinal score look more respectable, but they were not close to winning this game. LSU big man Johnny O'Bryant is big and skilled and was very active, and Kentucky's bigs didn't match his skill level or his intensity, at all. Kentucky's entire effort was lackluster, with the Harrisons being the worst offenders, though not the only ones. Dakari Johnson played pretty hard, and Randle did in spurts, but that was about it. James Young can certainly shoot, but I didn't see him playing all that hard either. But those Harrison kids have real issues with maturity, in addition to the holes in their games.

I think, too, that if O'Bryant comes back for his senior year, with rising sophomore Jordan Mickie (who was excellent as well last night) plus superstud recruit Ben Simmons coming in, LSU is going to be much improved next year. They'll be relevant.

FerryFor50
01-29-2014, 11:58 AM
Coys and oldnavy,
Interesting discussion about the viability of UK's strategy. Thanks.

I have to wonder what effect a jr. Like kyle Wiltjer would have had on this team. Was the biggest recruiting miss that Cal had last year his inability to keep Wiltjer from transferring?

I think Cal' strategy is evolving. This past recruiting class had some 2-4 year players sprinkled in.
I wonder if Cal can convince the twins back? If they come back, will they learn how to play without sulking?
Will Dakari stick around? He was the hardest working player on the court last night. He could provide a great example to future players on what it takes to win at the college level.
Hawkins could be a player in another year or two.

Lots of questions after a bad loss. Still time this season to turn it around.

Unless Kyle Wiltjer could help this team play harder, then he would have had very little effect. I doubt he would have played very much, considering how little Alex Poythress plays despite his effort and talent. His minutes are down from around 26 to 19 per game.

I wonder if Poythress would have picked Duke if he could start the process over?

Dakari plays hard, but isn't particularly good. If he's smart, he'll Daniel Orton his way out of Kentucky before his game gets exposed.

jv001
01-29-2014, 12:04 PM
I watched the second half of this game, and LSU dominated it. Kentucky hit four 3 pointers in the last minute and change to make the fiinal score look more respectable, but they were not close to winning this game. LSU big man Johnny O'Bryant is big and skilled and was very active, and Kentucky's bigs didn't match his skill level or his intensity, at all. Kentucky's entire effort was lackluster, with the Harrisons being the worst offenders, though not the only ones. Dakari Johnson played pretty hard, and Randle did in spurts, but that was about it. James Young can certainly shoot, but I didn't see him playing all that hard either. But those Harrison kids have real issues with maturity, in addition to the holes in their games.

I think, too, that if O'Bryant comes back for his senior year, with rising sophomore Jordan Mickie (who was excellent as well last night) plus superstud recruit Ben Simmons coming in, LSU is going to be much improved next year. They'll be relevant.

Every time I've seen Kentucky play I've come away with the same feeling about the Harrison twins. They just don't impress me for such highly rated prospects and I agree about the sulking part. We had a player that showed a sulky side, but he's worked hard to rid of that. GoDuke!

TexHawk
01-29-2014, 12:10 PM
Dakari plays hard, but isn't particularly good. If he's smart, he'll Daniel Orton his way out of Kentucky before his game gets exposed.

Not to change the subject, but Dakari's presence at Montverde in Florida forced Joel Embiid to transfer out to get playing time at another high school.

FerryFor50
01-29-2014, 12:19 PM
Not to change the subject, but Dakari's presence at Montverde in Florida forced Joel Embiid to transfer out to get playing time at another high school.

True, but at that point Embiid had played what? 1 year of ball?

Dakari likely had 10-12 years of experience on Embiid.

timmy c
01-29-2014, 12:33 PM
Unless Kyle Wiltjer could help this team play harder, then he would have had very little effect. I doubt he would have played very much, considering how little Alex Poythress plays despite his effort and talent. His minutes are down from around 26 to 19 per game.

Playing harder for this UK team is related to maturity. I believe Wiltjer would have added some maturity to this team.


I wonder if Poythress would have picked Duke if he could start the process over?
I doubt he would have wanted to play behind MP2 and Kelly las year. If he played for Duke this year, he'd play the center position. Again, I doubt he'd be interested in that option.



Dakari plays hard, but isn't particularly good. If he's smart, he'll Daniel Orton his way out of Kentucky before his game gets exposed.

Your expectations of a "good" freshman center are very different than mine. If he's smart, he'll find a place where he can continue to work really hard to develop his skills to compliment an NBA ready body. If he does, He will be cashing basketball checks for the next decade.

TexHawk
01-29-2014, 12:48 PM
True, but at that point Embiid had played what? 1 year of ball?

Dakari likely had 10-12 years of experience on Embiid.

Yea, I'm not really trying to make a point there. Just an interesting footnote.

TruBlu
01-29-2014, 01:28 PM
In the video, Cal edges out on the court and pushes a Wildcat player to get him in the right position. Isn't this cause for a suspension of the coach? I mean, getting in the middle of a play in a CBB game. The last time that happened that I know of, Woody Hayes punched a Clemson player in a bowl game and never coached again.

There will be no punishment or suspension. The extra work needed to get the slime off of #5's jersey will be punishment enough.

JasonEvans
01-29-2014, 01:33 PM
If he's smart, he'll Daniel Orton his way out of Kentucky before his game gets exposed.

I literally cannot stop laughing at that line. The notion of Daniel Orton being a descriptive term is beyond awesome!

Orton has made over $3 mil from his thus far completely unproductive NBA career -- a career that appears to be all but over after Philly waived him earlier this month and no one picked him up. While that is hardly a king's ransom, it is a fabulous start to your work life. I would imagine Orton will play in the D-League and then perhaps Europe. Whatever happens, it is clear that he parlayed one year of riding the bench at Kentucky into a far bigger NBA paycheck than his talent and work ethic should have dictated.

-Jason "I can't imagine Kentucky fans -- the same fans who cherish the memories of 4-year glue guys Pelphrey, Farmer, Woods, and Feldhaus -- really like these one-semester* rent-a-player teams" Evans

*- that's how long they take classes before heading to the NBA

FerryFor50
01-29-2014, 01:46 PM
Playing harder for this UK team is related to maturity. I believe Wiltjer would have added some maturity to this team.

You are making a few assumptions here...

1) That Wiltjer is somehow more mature than the existing upperclassmen on the team

There are two seniors (Polson and Hood) and two sophomores (Cauley-Stein and Poythress). Wiltjer would have been a sophomore. What evidence is there that he's more mature than the other guys?

2) That Wiltjer commanded enough respect from the incoming freshmen one and done kids to be a steadying force. Think the Harrison twins would listen to a guy that might not be playing a whole lot?

3) That Wiltjer was interested in, or capable of, being a leader. He may be, but all I know about him is that he shoots a lot of threes and transferred.


I doubt he would have wanted to play behind MP2 and Kelly las year. If he played for Duke this year, he'd play the center position. Again, I doubt he'd be interested in that option.

Poythress could have played a decent amount last season, I suspect, (especially after Kelly's injury) and maybe a lot this season. He's a big, strong rebounder who can hit the three and finish at the rim. On the flip side, it would have been at the expense of either Jefferson's minutes or getting Jefferson at Duke at all.



Your expectations of a "good" freshman center are very different than mine. If he's smart, he'll find a place where he can continue to work really hard to develop his skills to compliment an NBA ready body. If he does, He will be cashing basketball checks for the next decade.

My expectation of "good freshman center" is at the least, a guy who can take Willie Cauley-Stein's minutes, and at best, could do better than 5 points and 4 boards per game. My point was, with the Daniel Orton comment, that if Johnson is projected as a first round pick this season, he should bolt. I don't see him ever being good enough in college to warrant being a first round pick later in his career. Daniel Orton will be cashing basketball checks, but not for the NBA, most likely.

tbyers11
01-29-2014, 01:59 PM
You are making a few assumptions here...

1) That Wiltjer is somehow more mature than the existing upperclassmen on the team

There are two seniors (Polson and Hood) and two sophomores (Cauley-Stein and Poythress). Wiltjer would have been a sophomore. What evidence is there that he's more mature than the other guys?

2) That Wiltjer commanded enough respect from the incoming freshmen one and done kids to be a steadying force. Think the Harrison twins would listen to a guy that might not be playing a whole lot?

3) That Wiltjer was interested in, or capable of, being a leader. He may be, but all I know about him is that he shoots a lot of threes and transferred.



All valid points except Wiltjer would have been a junior this season. While the extra year typically adds to leadership potential and respect from your teammates, I agree that this group, the Harrisons in particular, might not have listened to anyone.

FerryFor50
01-29-2014, 02:01 PM
All valid points except Wiltjer would have been a junior this season. While the extra year typically adds to leadership potential and respect from your teammates, I agree that this group, the Harrisons in particular, might not have listened to anyone.

Yea, that's right. My bad. :)