MBB: Virginia 68, Notre Dame 52

[OldPhiKap]

Wow. Notre Dame not playing bad, but Virginia is crushing right now. Brogdon is en fuego

[Duvall]

Wow. Notre Dame not playing bad, but Virginia is crushing right now. Bronson is en fuego

Also, Notre Dame is playing bad. What do they have, 12 turnovers?

[OldPhiKap]

Also, Notre Dame is playing bad. What do they have, 12 turnovers?

I think UVA has a bunch to do with it, though.

Wahoos playing well on the road, we need them to falter.

[Troublemaker]

That UVA win in Cameron was so, so underrated by our fans in initial reaction. They could be a 2 seed in the NCAAT when it's all said and done.

And that Duke loss to Notre Dame was so, so terrible. I was hoping the Irish could make it look somewhat respectable by playing .500 ball in conference but I gave up on that hope several games ago.

[wgl1228]

I can't believe we lost to them and Clemson. Teams just get hyped up for Duke. That's the only explanation I can think of.

[Troublemaker]

Well, Coach K provided the explanation in his post-UVA press conference. But, true, teams get hyped for Duke for sure.

[Duvall]

I can't believe we lost to them and Clemson. Teams just get hyped up for Duke. That's the only explanation I can think of.

Well, that and Notre Dame players and fans accurately assessing the season as a lost cause and checking out between then and now.

[dukelifer]

I can't believe we lost to them and Clemson. Teams just get hyped up for Duke. That's the only explanation I can think of.

Duke was a different team then. That loss helped to shake things up. The team is better for it now.

[roywhite]

Duke was a different team then. That loss helped to shake things up. The team is better for it now.

Yes, different team then. I have seen some player comments that they thought the ND loss was just a loss in a competitive game -- can't win them all type thing. It was the Clemson game that really got people's attention, players and coaches. That was not just a loss, it was a beatdown.

[Newton_14]

That UVA win in Cameron was so, so underrated by our fans in initial reaction. They could be a 2 seed in the NCAAT when it's all said and done.

And that Duke loss to Notre Dame was so, so terrible. I was hoping the Irish could make it look somewhat respectable by playing .500 ball in conference but I gave up on that hope several games ago.

Agree on both counts. UVA was one of our better wins, and the loss to ND is easily our worst loss of the year. Horrible loss.

How the heck did Tobey miss that dunk??

[Newton_14]

Anyone else catch the announcers comments about Karl Hess? Tonight is the 61st game he has ref'd this season! 61 games! That is a lot of basketball. Have to believe fatigue becomes a factor somewhere in there....

[OldPhiKap]

Anyone else catch the announcers comments about Karl Hess? Tonight is the 61st game he has ref'd this season! 61 games! That is a lot of basketball. Have to believe fatigue becomes a factor somewhere in there....

To be fair, he made up his mind before 50 of the games. So he only really had to work about a dozen games or so.

[Edouble]

That UVA win in Cameron was so, so underrated by our fans in initial reaction. They could be a 2 seed in the NCAAT when it's all said and done.

Really? They're not ranked.

I agree they are a good team, I just have trouble imagining a scenario where UVA gets a 2 seed. I can't see them going all the way from being unranked, leapfrogging Duke (with our improved play) or Syracuse with one month until March. I also don't see 3 of the top 8 seeds being from the ACC. I understand that seedings are about more than rankings, but still... a 2 seed?

[erc128]

Really? They're not ranked.

I agree they are a good team, I just have trouble imagining a scenario where UVA gets a 2 seed. I can't see them going all the way from being unranked, leapfrogging Duke (with our improved play) or Syracuse with one month until March. I also don't see 3 of the top 8 seeds being from the ACC. I understand that seedings are about more than rankings, but still... a 2 seed?

uva has got a pretty easy schedule left with the exception of @pitt and home vs cuse. they could go 16-2 in conference which would probably be a 2 seed. 14-4 or 15-3 will probably be their record. even then they are a 4 or 3 seed

[roywhite]

Virginia guard Brogdon is emerging as a really good player.

He finished with 16 points on 7-10 shooting, including 2-3 from 3-pt; also had 7 rebounds, 6 assists (vs 2 turnovers) and 5 steals.

[Duvall]

uva has got a pretty easy schedule left with the exception of @pitt and home vs cuse. they could go 16-2 in conference which would probably be a 2 seed. 14-4 or 15-3 will probably be their record. even then they are a 4 or 3 seed

With Virginia's RPI, probably not. 3-seed maybe, but even winning out would put them fringe top ten. Winning the ACC Tournament would help, but that takes easy back out of the equation.

[erc128]

With Virginia's RPI, probably not. 3-seed maybe, but even winning out would put them fringe top ten. Winning the ACC Tournament would help, but that takes easy back out of the equation.

winning out with a win over cuse would put them top 5 and a record of 26-5. they would win the ACC at 17-1, which would be top 5. out of conference would be forgiven at that point. but yes in all likelihood they will be 4 or 3

[JNort]

I can't believe we lost to them and Clemson. Teams just get hyped up for Duke. That's the only explanation I can think of.

I don't think so. More like we just weren't playing as well at the time.

[Troublemaker]

Really? They're not ranked.

I agree they are a good team, I just have trouble imagining a scenario where UVA gets a 2 seed. I can't see them going all the way from being unranked, leapfrogging Duke (with our improved play) or Syracuse with one month until March. I also don't see 3 of the top 8 seeds being from the ACC. I understand that seedings are about more than rankings, but still... a 2 seed?

I didn't say it was likely, but you can't imagine a scenario at all? As erc128 notes, what if UVA wins the regular season and make semis in the ACCT? Your mileage may vary, of course, on how likely they are to do that. I, for one, have written repeatedly that they're a very good team and a big threat.

Yes, UVA would probably have to displace Cuse or Duke from a top 2 seed, but neither team has some sort of stranglehold on a top 2 seed. (Duke almost certainly isn't even there yet. Lots of work to be done.) A month is plenty of time in college basketball.

[dukelifer]

Yes, different team then. I have seen some player comments that they thought the ND loss was just a loss in a competitive game -- can't win them all type thing. It was the Clemson game that really got people's attention, players and coaches. That was not just a loss, it was a beatdown.

I agree but that was the second loss in the ACC. It was clear after Clemson that changes were made. Recall that in both games - Duke had a lead in the second half and then did not stop the other team. I think the games were very similar- just a different margin.

[BD80]

Virginia guard Brogdon is emerging as a really good player. ...

Is he brobdingnagian?

[sagegrouse]

Is he brobdingnagian?

Naw, but he is Swift.

[Bluedog]

UVa as a 2 seed

winning out with a win over cuse would put them top 5 and a record of 26-5. they would win the ACC at 17-1, which would be top 5. out of conference would be forgiven at that point. but yes in all likelihood they will be 4 or 3

Conference record/standing doesn't matter at all in the eyes of the committee, particularly with a huge conference and unbalanced scheduling. Yes, if a team does really well in conference, they probably have some good wins and THAT is what matters, not the record. There have been many cases where a team that finished below another in conference standings was seeded higher in the NCAA tournament. Duke's OOC resume is much better than that of UVa's, for example, so I would expect Duke to earn a higher seed if they end up at about the same place in the ACC (notwithstanding the ACC tournament).

[pfrduke]

Conference record/standing doesn't matter at all in the eyes of the committee, particularly with a huge conference and unbalanced scheduling. Yes, if a team does really well in conference, they probably have some good wins and THAT is what matters, not the record. There have been many cases where a team that finished below another in conference standings was seeded higher in the NCAA tournament. Duke's OOC resume is much better than that of UVa's, for example, so I would expect Duke to earn a higher seed if they end up at about the same place in the ACC (notwithstanding the ACC tournament).

It is pretty remarkable that Virginia could finish the regular season at 24-7, 15-3 in the ACC, and have their best win on the entire season be either a neutral site victory over SMU or a road win at Florida State. Obviously, they could fix that with wins over Pitt or Syracuse, but what a pitiful resume. Sadly, it says as much about the state of the conference as it does about Virginia.

[devildeac]

Anyone else catch the announcers comments about Karl Hess? Tonight is the 61st game he has ref'd this season! 61 games! That is a lot of basketball. Have to believe fatigue becomes a factor somewhere in there....


To be fair, he made up his mind before 50 of the games. So he only really had to work about a dozen games or so.

And fatigue leads to visual difficulties...

;):rolleyes:

[tbyers11]

It is pretty remarkable that Virginia could finish the regular season at 24-7, 15-3 in the ACC, and have their best win on the entire season be either a neutral site victory over SMU or a road win at Florida State. Obviously, they could fix that with wins over Pitt or Syracuse, but what a pitiful resume. Sadly, it says as much about the state of the conference as it does about Virginia.

Unbalanced ACC schedule notwithstanding, UVa did have a decent non-conference schedule. NC SOS of 146 according to Ken Pom, that puts them 12th out of the current top 20 teams in NC SOS. The thing is they lost every big non-conf game (Wisconsin, VCU, @Tenn) and lost 2 of those 3 badly. Their loss on the road at Green Bay (in a homecoming game for Tony Bennett) isn't looking awful anymore as Green Bay looks like a strong mid-major but its not going to win them any points either.

My point is to give some props for UVa for having a decent non-con schedule. Unfortunately, you need to win some of them

[OldPhiKap]

Unbalanced ACC schedule notwithstanding, UVa did have a decent non-conference schedule. NC SOS of 146 according to Ken Pom, that puts them 12th out of the current top 20 teams in NC SOS. The thing is they lost every big non-conf game (Wisconsin, VCU, @Tenn) and lost 2 of those 3 badly. Their loss on the road at Green Bay (in a homecoming game for Tony Bennett) isn't looking awful anymore as Green Bay looks like a strong mid-major but its not going to win them any points either.

My point is to give some props for UVa for having a decent non-con schedule. Unfortunately, you need to win some of them

Certainly true. I would add that early-season non-conference games say little about how a team is playing now. Duke is much different than it was five weeks ago, for example. UVa is getting better.

[oldnavy]

And fatigue leads to visual difficulties...

;):rolleyes:

Are you kidding?? Hess can see through cinderblock walls, even the solid ones! He sees everything, he hears everything, and he KNOWS everything, in fact he knows what is going to happen before it happens!

He is SUPERREF! His only weakness - Italian, ex-NCSU players.

[OldPhiKap]

Are you kidding?? Hess can see through cinderblock walls, even the solid ones! He sees everything, he hears everything, and he KNOWS everything, in fact he knows what is going to happen before it happens!

He is SUPERREF! His only weakness is are Italian ex-NCSU players.

OldNavy is haunted by the ghost of Lenny Wirtz.

[devildeac]

Are you kidding?? Hess can see through cinderblock walls, even the solid ones! He sees everything, he hears everything, and he KNOWS everything, in fact he knows what is going to happen before it happens!

He is SUPERREF! His only weakness is are Italian ex-NCSU players.

Ahh, so that's why OPK said he had his mind made up already in 50 of those games;):rolleyes: .

And, on topic, is uVa that good or has ND really become that bad, or both? I'm thinking a combination of the two.

[devildeac]

OldNavy is haunted by the ghost of Lenny Wirtz.

And Dick (aka Richard) Po(o)paro:o .

[OldPhiKap]

And Dick (aka Richard) Po(o)paro:o .

"Nice call, Richard!
Nice call, Richard!
Nice call, Richard! ...."

[AtlDuke72]

Virginia guard Brogdon is emerging as a really good player.

He finished with 16 points on 7-10 shooting, including 2-3 from 3-pt; also had 7 rebounds, 6 assists (vs 2 turnovers) and 5 steals.

His father, Gino Brogdon, is a lawyer and former judge in Atlanta. Top notch guy. Nice to see his son doing so well.

[tbyers11]

Certainly true. I would add that early-season non-conference games say little about how a team is playing now. Duke is much different than it was five weeks ago, for example. UVa is getting better.

Totally agree about how you play in Nov/Dec often has doesn't matchup with how you are playing in February/March. UVa is definitely playing much better now.

However, the committee will weigh those non-conference losses quite strongly especially with UVa's extremely easy unbalanced ACC sked. If UVa loses both their Pitt/Cuse games I can't see them higher than about a 4-5 seed unless they win nearly every other game and the ACC tourney.

[oldnavy]

OldNavy is haunted by the ghost of Lenny Wirtz.

The last ref that I knew his name (usually a bad thing) and liked was Lou Bellos. That cat was funny... "hello, spooortss faaannss!"

[sagegrouse]

The last ref that I knew his name (usually a bad thing) and liked was Lou Bellos. That cat was funny... "hello, spooortss faaannss!"

Lou Bello -- Duke grad and former POW in WWII. He was a hoot! When he called an out-of-bounds play between a blue team and a white team, he would wait until it got real quiet and yell "Pink!" He couldn't do Duke games, but I used to catch him elsewhere.

[Indoor66]

Lou Bello -- Duke grad and former POW in WWII. He was a hoot! When he called an out-of-bounds play between a blue team and a white team, he would wait until it got real quiet and yell "Pink!" He couldn't do Duke games, but I used to catch him elsewhere.

Bello was a darn good ref and he made the whistle stops fun. I always enjoyed games he worked.