Sorry, Carolina - Dante Exum entering NBA draft in 2014

[FerryFor50]

http://nba.si.com/2014/01/28/dante-exum-entering-2014-nba-draft/?eref=sihp

There had been some talk of Exum going to school for a year and UNC was apparently high on his list (his dad had UNC ties).

Schadenfreude!

[MChambers]

I'm betting Roy's not in dadgum recruiting spirit.

I did hear that Roy said Exum was the best player he's ever recruited.

I'm sure the folks at IC are taking this well.

[FerryFor50]

I'm betting Roy's not in dadgum recruiting spirit.

I did hear that Roy said Exum was the best player he's ever recruited.

I'm sure the folks at IC are taking this well.

You should have seen him at practice. Tore it up!

[Kedsy]

I'm sure the folks at IC are taking this well.

Actually, I just went over there and they are. I guess they never seriously believed he would play college ball.

[roywhite]

I'm betting Roy's not in dadgum recruiting spirit.

I did hear that Roy said Exum was the best player he's ever recruited.

I'm sure the folks at IC are taking this well.

Hadn't been over at IC for a while, so I decided to check things out:

Actually, pretty calm reaction to Exum being out of the picture; apparently,they weren't counting much on him, and one poster even congratulated Ole Roy for not spending too much time on the kid

Other threads were that lunacy we love so much:
"Could it be any worse?" -- a thread griping about recent TV commentary from Jason Williams and Adrian Branch; really hating on Branch for some reason
"OK, Roy Basheers.....Who do you want?" -- griping about their current coach and wondering just who can rescue the ship
Duke/Pitt post-game reactions -- mostly along the lines of Welcome to ACC officiating, Jamie Dixon; you can see how D*** gets all the calls

[flyingdutchdevil]

Actually, I just went over there and they are. I guess they never seriously believed he would play college ball.

Yeah. I just did the same thing. Very un-Carolina of them.

I guess the one position UNC is solid at is the 1. 2-5? Different story...

[Duvall]

Yeah. I just did the same thing. Very un-Carolina of them.

I guess the one position UNC is solid at is the 1. 2-5? Different story...

A bit generous, but not unreasonable.

[FerryFor50]

Yeah. I just did the same thing. Very un-Carolina of them.

I guess the one position UNC is solid at is the 1. 2-5? Different story...

Hey, 1 out of 5 isn't bad...

[flyingdutchdevil]

A bit generous, but not unreasonable.

C'mon. You gotta give Paige some credit. 16.7 / 4.2 / 3.5 is pretty damn good, especially when you are the focal point of the offense and every team is gunning for you. He is shooting an okay 42%, but that's understandable given that he's the focus.

[OldPhiKap]

Hey, 1 out of 5 isn't bad...

We talking Carolina free throws?

[JasonEvans]

Due to the different school year calendar in Australia, there was a possibility that Dante Exum could have come over to the US and played just the second half of the college basketball season this year before entering the NBA Draft. He decided against that but imagine how he could have changed the landscape of college hoops if he had cherry picked a contender to join a couple weeks ago... Wow!

-Jason "seems likely to be one of the top 5 picks in the draft -- I do wish we had a chance to watch him play at the college level" Evans

[flyingdutchdevil]

Due to the different school year calendar in Australia, there was a possibility that Dante Exum could have come over to the US and played just the second half of the college basketball season this year before entering the NBA Draft. He decided against that but imagine how he could have changed the landscape of college hoops if he had cherry picked a contender to join a couple weeks ago... Wow!

-Jason "seems likely to be one of the top 5 picks in the draft -- I do wish we had a chance to watch him play at the college level" Evans

I wonder if he'll go before or after Smart. Smart is a known commodity who is a fantastic scorer, immensely strong, and hurts chairs with more efficiency than Bobby Knight.

However, Exum could easily fall in the "potentially amazing / potentially a bust" category and get drafted by a GM whose job is on the line. Sorry Milwaukee, looks like you're drafting Exum at the 4 stop (after you lose the lottery).

[FerryFor50]

I wonder if he'll go before or after Smart. Smart is a known commodity who is a fantastic scorer, immensely strong, and hurts chairs with more efficiency than Bobby Knight.

However, Exum could easily fall in the "potentially amazing / potentially a bust" category and get drafted by a GM whose job is on the line. Sorry Milwaukee, looks like you're drafting Exum at the 4 stop (after you lose the lottery).

I think Exum goes before Smart. I think Smart hurt his stock a bit sticking around an extra year. He doesn't shoot particularly well and his strength won't be as big of an asset in the NBA as it was in college.

However, I think the drop is marginal. Smart would have been top 5 last year. Now I think he's top 10 material.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think Exum goes before Smart. I think Smart hurt his stock a bit sticking around an extra year. He doesn't shoot particularly well and his strength won't be as big of an asset in the NBA as it was in college.

However, I think the drop is marginal. Smart would have been top 5 last year. Now I think he's top 10 material.

I think you're right. If Smart drops out of the top 8, some team will be very very lucky. Smart may not be an All-Star, but he's good enough to be a 12-year starter. That's a lot of broken chairs...

[TexHawk]

I think Exum goes before Smart. I think Smart hurt his stock a bit sticking around an extra year. He doesn't shoot particularly well and his strength won't be as big of an asset in the NBA as it was in college.

However, I think the drop is marginal. Smart would have been top 5 last year. Now I think he's top 10 material.

Smart was guaranteed to the Magic at #2. They were begging for him. Of course, where guys land this June will be highly dependent on team needs, but I have seen Smart anywhere from 6-10 in recent mocks. There were a bunch of scouts on hand to see him shoot 6-18 last night. The box score will show 22 points, but many were from the free throw line, and I'm not sure he's going to get a lot of those calls at the next level.

[FerryFor50]

Smart was guaranteed to the Magic at #2. They were begging for him. Of course, where guys land this June will be highly dependent on team needs, but I have seen Smart anywhere from 6-10 in recent mocks. There were a bunch of scouts on hand to see him shoot 6-18 last night. The box score will show 22 points, but many were from the free throw line, and I'm not sure he's going to get a lot of those calls at the next level.

Yep. Magic don't really need him as much now that they have Oladipo. But honestly, every team without a stud PG needs a PG. Which is generally every team that will be in the lottery.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yep. Magic don't really need him as much now that they have Oladipo. But honestly, every team without a stud PG needs a PG. Which is generally every team that will be in the lottery.

Except for the Cavs. And Boston. And Philly. And Detroit (debatable). And Denver. And Memphis. And Minnesota (debatable). And Utah. And Sacramento (debatable). And New Orleans.

Actually, the PG position is pretty stacked for a lot of lottery-bound teams. It's the 2-5 where they are getting crushed.

[FerryFor50]

Except for the Cavs. And Boston. And Philly. And Detroit (debatable). And Denver. And Memphis. And Minnesota (debatable). And Utah. And Sacramento (debatable). And New Orleans.

Actually, the PG position is pretty stacked for a lot of lottery-bound teams. It's the 2-5 where they are getting crushed.

I don't think the Cavs are going to be in the lottery. I think they could squeeze into the playoffs. Detroit doesn't really have a good PG. Jennings is an undersized 2 guard. They'd have been better off keeping Knight. Minny has Rubio, but he's a terrible shooter. Do they really need another terrible shooter at PG? Same for Trey Burke (who was injured much of the Utah season). Same goes for Boston, where Rondo was injured and was a bit overrated IMO... I mean, I could have looked good passing to KG, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen all the time.

And let's be honest - outside of Kyrie, none of those teams have PGs that could be considered "elite" at this stage. No Chris Paul, John Wall, Derrick Rose, etc.

[TexHawk]

Except for the Cavs. And Boston. And Philly. And Detroit (debatable). And Denver. And Memphis. And Minnesota (debatable). And Utah. And Sacramento (debatable). And New Orleans.

Actually, the PG position is pretty stacked for a lot of lottery-bound teams. It's the 2-5 where they are getting crushed.

Draft Express has Smart going to the Cavs. Ignoring the Kyrie overlap, it would be kind of funny, considering that Smart could have done that last year and saved everybody a ton of time (and Anthony Bennett a few ulcers).

[BD80]

Except for the Cavs. And Boston. And Philly. And Detroit (debatable). And Denver. And Memphis. And Minnesota (debatable). And Utah. And Sacramento (debatable). And New Orleans.

Actually, the PG position is pretty stacked for a lot of lottery-bound teams. It's the 2-5 where they are getting crushed.

Detroit owes the Bobcats their #1, but it is top 8 protected. The Pistons will probably screw up and wind up with the #9 or 10 pick, and ship it to Charlotte.

What did the Pistons get for such a valuable pick? Rid of Ben Gordon.

[flyingdutchdevil]

This draft is really interesting. With plenty of lottery teams having good-to-really-good PGs, the 2-5 is going to be insane. IMO, I don't think Exum nor Smart will be top 5. I think it's Parker, Randle, Wiggins, Embiid, and possibly some combination of Noah Vonleh, Rodney Hood, Gary Harris, or Zach LaVine. I will probably be completely wrong, but I just think the worst teams have decent PGs (minus Milwaukee, of course. But if Milwaukee is a top 3 pick, which they are likely to be, I don't see them taking Smart or Exum over Wiggins or Parker).

[UrinalCake]

You should have seen him at practice. Tore it up!

Well now they can spend all of next year saying "If we had Exum we'd be the hands-down favorites for the National Championship.... We just got unlucky yet again."

[tbyers11]

This draft is really interesting. With plenty of lottery teams having good-to-really-good PGs, the 2-5 is going to be insane. IMO, I don't think Exum nor Smart will be top 5. I think it's Parker, Randle, Wiggins, Embiid, and possibly some combination of Noah Vonleh, Rodney Hood, Gary Harris, or Zach LaVine. I will probably be completely wrong, but I just think the worst teams have decent PGs (minus Milwaukee, of course. But if Milwaukee is a top 3 pick, which they are likely to be, I don't see them taking Smart or Exum over Wiggins or Parker).

FDD,

I've got to ask why you are so high on Lavine. Are you quoting NBAdraft.net (who has him at #10) or is this your opinion? I don't follow draft rankings much til the season is over, but I don't see how this guy is projected as a 1st round pick let alone lottery. I see that Draft Express has him at 29 so maybe he has something I'm not seeing. He didn't impress at all in the Duke game and I've seen 2 UCLA games since then where he looked decent but nothing special. He has very good athleticism and is a 47% 3PT shooter but he's averaging 12/3 reb/2 ast which don't scream one and done to me at all.

[FerryFor50]

This draft is really interesting. With plenty of lottery teams having good-to-really-good PGs, the 2-5 is going to be insane. IMO, I don't think Exum nor Smart will be top 5. I think it's Parker, Randle, Wiggins, Embiid, and possibly some combination of Noah Vonleh, Rodney Hood, Gary Harris, or Zach LaVine. I will probably be completely wrong, but I just think the worst teams have decent PGs (minus Milwaukee, of course. But if Milwaukee is a top 3 pick, which they are likely to be, I don't see them taking Smart or Exum over Wiggins or Parker).

None of the names after Embiid scream "top 5" to me.

Though I do think there are two very good examples in last year's draft of what a crapshoot drafting PGs are...

Trey Burke and Michael Carter-Williams

[GGLC]

This draft is really interesting. With plenty of lottery teams having good-to-really-good PGs, the 2-5 is going to be insane. IMO, I don't think Exum nor Smart will be top 5. I think it's Parker, Randle, Wiggins, Embiid, and possibly some combination of Noah Vonleh, Rodney Hood, Gary Harris, or Zach LaVine. I will probably be completely wrong, but I just think the worst teams have decent PGs (minus Milwaukee, of course. But if Milwaukee is a top 3 pick, which they are likely to be, I don't see them taking Smart or Exum over Wiggins or Parker).

I would be absolutely amazed at this point if Hood went before Exum or Smart.

[flyingdutchdevil]

FDD,

I've got to ask why you are so high on Lavine. Are you quoting NBAdraft.net (who has him at #10) or is this your opinion? I don't follow draft rankings much til the season is over, but I don't see how this guy is projected as a 1st round pick let alone lottery. I see that Draft Express has him at 29 so maybe he has something I'm not seeing. He didn't impress at all in the Duke game and I've seen 2 UCLA games since then where he looked decent but nothing special. He has very good athleticism and is a 47% 3PT shooter but he's averaging 12/3 reb/2 ast which don't scream one and done to me at all.

The NBA draft isn't about talent. It's about potential. It's why Wiggins - a high potential athlete who currently doesn't have as much talent as Smart - will go before Smart. LaVine is insanely athletic. He has the perfect height to be a 2 in the NBA (a position that is severely lacking talent). Also, he's raw. NBA GMs will gamble. I'm not saying I'd put money on LaVine being top 5, but I'd be surprised if he's not top 10. I really enjoy game and think it will translate better to the NBA than college.


None of the names after Embiid scream "top 5" to me.

Though I do think there are two very good examples in last year's draft of what a crapshoot drafting PGs are...

Trey Burke and Michael Carter-Williams

We'll see. The NBA is saturated at the 1. Teams with good-to-great PGs aren't going to draft another PG just based on potential. Also, I think the difference in talent between Smart/Exum and the names I listed after Embiid isn't that great. That's just my opinion, though.

A player like Hood, however, is a very interesting proposition. He's got great size, a great shot, and, most importantly, can play the 2. Right now, Hood would get killed in the NBA as a 3; he's just not big enough. As a 2, Hood has better size, can probably keep 2s in check, and is plenty quick. The most telling trait of Hood was when Bilas said that he just shot over his opponent and made a 3.

Anywho, I'm calling it now. And you heard it hear first. Lottery or not, Hood will be the steal of the draft. His combination of size, ability to shoot, and decent athleticism will allow him to be the new Evan Turner.

[JasonEvans]

I would be absolutely amazed at this point if Hood went before Exum or Smart.

Rodney would have to totally explode and dominate the second half of the season for that to happen. He does not have the "potential" stink all over him so his draft ceiling is a bit lower.

-Jason "I do think Rodney will be one of the top 'ready to play now' kids in the draft though" Evans

[tbyers11]

The NBA draft isn't about talent. It's about potential. It's why Wiggins - a high potential athlete who currently doesn't have as much talent as Smart - will go before Smart. LaVine is insanely athletic. He has the perfect height to be a 2 in the NBA (a position that is severely lacking talent). Also, he's raw. NBA GMs will gamble. I'm not saying I'd put money on LaVine being top 5, but I'd be surprised if he's not top 10. I really enjoy game and think it will translate better to the NBA than college.


I understand the potential vs actual production debate in the NBA draft. From watching Wiggins in the hoop summit and a few games this year I can see why he will likely go before Jabari in the draft despite Jabari having a much more polished game at the moment. I just hadn't seen anyone, outside of one website, talking about Lavine anywhere near the lottery and wasn't that impressed by his skills (raw or otherwise) in my (admittedly small) viewing sample size. Guess I'll have to watch him more closely. Thanks for the reply.

[GGLC]

This draft is really interesting. With plenty of lottery teams having good-to-really-good PGs, the 2-5 is going to be insane. IMO, I don't think Exum nor Smart will be top 5. I think it's Parker, Randle, Wiggins, Embiid, and possibly some combination of Noah Vonleh, Rodney Hood, Gary Harris, or Zach LaVine. I will probably be completely wrong, but I just think the worst teams have decent PGs (minus Milwaukee, of course. But if Milwaukee is a top 3 pick, which they are likely to be, I don't see them taking Smart or Exum over Wiggins or Parker).


The NBA draft isn't about talent. It's about potential. It's why Wiggins - a high potential athlete who currently doesn't have as much talent as Smart - will go before Smart. LaVine is insanely athletic. He has the perfect height to be a 2 in the NBA (a position that is severely lacking talent). Also, he's raw. NBA GMs will gamble. I'm not saying I'd put money on LaVine being top 5, but I'd be surprised if he's not top 10. I really enjoy game and think it will translate better to the NBA than college.


For what it's worth, Exum is taller and reportedly more athletic than LaVine, so everything you said about LaVine would apply at least as much to Exum as well.

[TexHawk]

who currently doesn't have as much talent as Smart

Is Smart really that talented? I mean, he's talented by the eye test, but his numbers aren't as great as you might think.

He is not a good shooter, he has improved from "horrific" last year to merely "bad" now. He rebounds well for a guard, but that's not as hard when you are guarding the opposing point guard, who is usually running back to the other end to guard against run-outs. He plays passing lanes well, I will give you that. He gets to the line, but as said before, it's doubtful that he will be able to goad NBA refs into some of those phantom calls like he does in the Big12.

[NashvilleDevil]

We'll see. The NBA is saturated at the 1. Teams with good-to-great PGs aren't going to draft another PG just based on potential. Also, I think the difference in talent between Smart/Exum and the names I listed after Embiid isn't that great. That's just my opinion, though.


This is the NBA, GMs make head scratching draft picks every year and this year will be no different.

[Duvall]

Is Smart really that talented? I mean, he's talented by the eye test, but his numbers aren't as great as you might think.

He is not a good shooter, he has improved from "horrific" last year to merely "bad" now. He rebounds well for a guard, but that's not as hard when you are guarding the opposing point guard, who is usually running back to the other end to guard against run-outs. He plays passing lanes well, I will give you that. He gets to the line, but as said before, it's doubtful that he will be able to goad NBA refs into some of those phantom calls like he does in the Big12.

Sounds like a Cleveland lottery pick to me.

[Troublemaker]

Anywho, I'm calling it now. And you heard it hear first. Lottery or not, Hood will be the steal of the draft. His combination of size, ability to shoot, and decent athleticism will allow him to be the new Evan Turner.

Does Turner have the ability to shoot? That's a little bit of a weird comparison to me, FDD. I think for Rodney's NBA comparison, I would first filter out anyone who doesn't have a sweet, sweet stroke like Rodney, and then go from there. I also think Turner handles the ball better.

[GGLC]

I also don't know if Turner is an NBA player that anyone with legit ambitions should really aspire to.

[FerryFor50]

Does Turner have the ability to shoot? That's a little bit of a weird comparison to me, FDD. I think for Rodney's NBA comparison, I would first filter out anyone who doesn't have a sweet, sweet stroke like Rodney, and then go from there. I also think Turner handles the ball better.




I also don't know if Turner is an NBA player that anyone with legit ambitions should really aspire to.

Agreed on both counts. I think Rip Hamilton is a good comp, provided Hood learns how to use screens like he did.

[GGLC]

Without looking him up, though, I picture Rip as being like 6'3" (at most 6'5") and skinny. Surely he isn't remotely comparable to Rodney physically?

[FerryFor50]

Without looking him up, though, I picture Rip as being like 6'3" (at most 6'5") and skinny. Surely he isn't remotely comparable to Rodney physically?

Rip Hamilton is 6'7"

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/_/id/294/richard-hamilton

Rodney is 6'8"

[BD80]

Without looking him up, though, I picture Rip as being like 6'3" (at most 6'5") and skinny. Surely he isn't remotely comparable to Rodney physically?

6'7", under 200lb. Rip was tireless at running around screens. Physically, not a bad comparison.

[GGLC]

Wow, my memory on Rip Hamilton was terrible. :) Would never ever have guessed 6'7".

[throatybeard]

I'm betting Roy's not in dadgum recruiting spirit.

Roy is not in the dadgum spirit of the Feast of St Thomas Aquinas.

[OldPhiKap]

For what it's worth, Exum is taller and reportedly more athletic than LaVine, so everything you said about LaVine would apply at least as much to Exum as well.

Well, Exum's height is measured in metric cinder blocks. So don't be too hasty with that conclusion yet.

Let's see how he measures out in good old American, standard cinder blocks first.

[JasonEvans]

I also don't know if Turner is an NBA player that anyone with legit ambitions should really aspire to.

Really?

7.2 ppg as a rookie
9.4 ppg his second year
13.3 ppg his third season in the pros
and this year he is at 18.5 ppg plus he grabs 6.1 rpg as well. Heck, he even passes a bit picking up 3.7 assists per game.

Look, I know he is doing this for the in-the-tank Sixers and his shooting percentages are not great, but he has clearly shown he can play in the league and is going to have a very lucrative career. He is making $6.6 mil this season and will probably get a nice long-term deal after this year (the Sixers are not likely to pick up the final option year of his deal, which is for close to $9 million).

Is Turner the scoring weapon and go-to player the Sixers had hoped when they picked him with the #2 pick in the draft? No. But, is he a solid NBA starter and a useful piece for any team? Absolutely yes. I doubt Rodney Hood would look at what Turner is doing and say, "I would hate to have a career like that!"

-Jason "by the time his career is over, probably in his 30s, I'll be shocked if Turner has not made well over $75 million... Hood would take that to the bank and smile all the way!" Evans

[devildeac]

http://nba.si.com/2014/01/28/dante-exum-entering-2014-nba-draft/?eref=sihp

There had been some talk of Exum going to school for a year and UNC was apparently high on his list (his dad had UNC ties).

Schadenfreude!

"Going to school for a year and unc" in the same sentence? Surely you jest:rolleyes: .

(and don't call -jk shirley any more*)

(*I think that's from the snow thread on the OTB:rolleyes:.)

[devildeac]

Hey, I've got a question about this (albeit unlikely) possibility. If he doesn't go to school (ie. class) at unc, can he still get his degree?:rolleyes:

[flyingdutchdevil]

Hey, I've got a question about this (albeit unlikely) possibility. If he doesn't go to school (ie. class) at unc, can he still get his degree?:rolleyes:

He can. It's part of the POC program that UNC is offering. What is the POC, you ask? It stands for 'Phantom Online Courses' and markets to athletes like JR Smith, Marvin Williams, and possibly Exum: get an online African-Amerian studies degree from UNCCH without even owning a computer!

[oldnavy]

Hey, I've got a question about this (albeit unlikely) possibility. If he doesn't go to school (ie. class) at unc, can he still get his degree?:rolleyes:

He's already placed out of Swahili 101, 201, and 301...

[COYS]

6'7", under 200lb. Rip was tireless at running around screens. Physically, not a bad comparison.

I think Joe Johnson is a fair comparison, too. Johnson has (or had) good but not exceptional athleticism and the ability to shoot over shorter shooting guards. Johnson is remembered as being a disappointment because the Hawks made him a max level player (he was NOT worth that investment!) rather than because he played poorly. He was also a decent distributor, as well, reaching 6.7 assists per game his first season in ATL. Rodney might even have a little more potential as a catch and shoot assassin and will (hopefully) not need to dominate the ball as much as Johnson did on occasions during his peak seasons. That being said, I think it would be awesome if Rodney could achieve the level of success as Joe Johnson.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think Joe Johnson is a fair comparison, too. Johnson has (or had) good but not exceptional athleticism and the ability to shoot over shorter shooting guards. Johnson is remembered as being a disappointment because the Hawks made him a max level player (he was NOT worth that investment!) rather than because he played poorly. He was also a decent distributor, as well, reaching 6.7 assists per game his first season in ATL. Rodney might even have a little more potential as a catch and shoot assassin and will (hopefully) not need to dominate the ball as much as Johnson did on occasions during his peak seasons. That being said, I think it would be awesome if Rodney could achieve the level of success as Joe Johnson.

I must admit that my Evan Turner analogy is off. I chose Turner because he and Hood have very similar bodies: very lean (not Durant lean, but lean nonetheless), similar height, and similar athleticism.

I really like the Rip Hamilton analogy, although I think Rip is a better mid-range shooter and Hood is more versatile.

I don't really see the Joe Johnson analogy. Johnson is a big dude. He uses his body very well. And while he's a really good shooter like Hood, Johnson is fantastic at driving. He is a bigger version of Corey Maggette but can also shoot. Johnson may not have deserved that contract, but he is a fantastic 2nd or 3rd banana.

Hood is a really interesting enigma. I can't think of a perfect analogy. Maybe a skinny Paul Pierce? Maybe a taller Klay Thompson? I have no idea. All I know is that a team will be getting a sweet shooter, a tall, lanky wing, and a decent defensive south paw.

[JasonEvans]

It is tough to compare Hood to established NBAers because Hood is still growing into his body. He is still somewhat lean. I suspect that a couple years in the league will add some bulk and strength to his frame. He is excellent at taking the ball into the lane and getting space for his shot (in addition to his stellar touch from the perimeter) and some extra muscle will really enhance that. I would not be surpsied if, in a few years, his game begins to resemble that of Joe Johnson... though hopefully without quite so much needless dribbling and wasting of the shot-clock.

-Jason "poor Miss St fans... they must hate watching us this year" Evans

[UrinalCake]

How about Harrison Barnes, only ten times better in every conceivable way?

[CameronBlue]

get an online African-Amerian studies degree from UNCCH without even owning a computer!

That and $27.50 will get you a Triple Chocolate Chai Tea Latte served in a nice designer cup by someone with at least 2 pierced body parts at Starbucks.