MBB: Duke v. Florida St., Pre-Game & In-Game Thread (1/25, 1200 EST, ESPN)

[pfrduke]

If I asked you to name the best 3 point shooting team in ACC play, how long would it have taken you to get to Florida State as the right answer? The Noles are hitting 3s at just about a 44% clip through 6 games, and that number is even more impressive when you consider that they started conference play 5-25 from downtown. Since then, all they've done is hit 37 of 71 threes over the past 4 games, not shooting below 38% from deep in any of them. That's blistering shooting. It's taken what otherwise would be an average offense and made it a good one - FSU is scoring 1.08 points per possession in conference play, and if they were only shooting at their season average from 3 (a still respectable, but not otherworldly, 37%) that number would drop all the way to 1.016.

So, is it sustainable? Can the Noles pull one more hot shooting performance in Cameron (a place that, for all its difficulty on road teams, is a very friendly shooting gym)? That may make the difference in whether or not the Noles can spring an upset. Because they'll need something to compensate for what almost assuredly will be a boatload of turnovers. FSU is one of the very worst teams in the country at holding on to the ball, turning it over more than 21% of the time, a number that has stayed relatively constant during ACC play. It's the worst figure in the conference. Duke overall hasn't been the turnover-forcing machine of years past, but in the (admittedly small sample size of) three games since the line change strategy rolled out, Duke's been forcing turnovers at almost exactly the rate that FSU turns the ball over. There's no reason to believe that won't continue on Saturday.

When Duke has the ball, Florida State is its usual, stingy self. They're big - no one shorter than 6'3", only three people shorter than 6'7", and for the vast majority of the game there will be either 7'1" or 7'3" holding down the middle. FSU is an excellent shot-blocking team and they hold down 2 point field goal percentage as a result. They harass the perimeter and force turnovers at a pretty good clip - Aaron Thomas and Devin Bookert in particular create a lot of steals. They've been unusually vulnerable to offensive rebounding for a big team, and while Bojanovsky and Ojo are tall, they're both slow as molasses - Amile Jefferson, eater of rebounds, can out-work and out-quick them to missed shots to create second opportunities. FSU has struggled in its last two games against Virginia and Notre Dame, two teams that spread you out and play 4-out, 1-in basketball. Duke can execute that kind of strategy well, too. Particularly at home, scoring shouldn't prove to be an obstacle overall for the Devils.

If the Noles stay hot from outside, I think the game stays pretty close. But if their recent run of hot shooting deserts them, I don't think they have enough fire power to keep up with Duke. Duke by 10. (knock on wood)

[Brockt10]

New to the forum.
This game scares me more than the upcoming Pitt game. Admittedly, I don't have much view time on Florida St, but don't like the recent box scores they have been posting. This will be a real test for the Devils and I hope they come out on top. With Florida state's size I would like to see the Sulaimon, Hood, Parker, Amile, and Plumlee lineup (Could be interesting). Anyone think this lineup could work?

[flyingdutchdevil]

New to the forum.
This game scares me more than the upcoming Pitt game. Admittedly, I don't have much view time on Florida St, but don't like the recent box scores they have been posting. This will be a real test for the Devils and I hope they come out on top. With Florida state's size I would like to see the Sulaimon, Hood, Parker, Amile, and Plumlee lineup (Could be interesting). Anyone think this lineup could work?

Firstly, welcome! Secondly, you've come to the right place as we love talking about line-ups and minutes.

With regards to your question, I think the answer is "nope". That line-up is huge and all those players can play those positions, but there is one fatal flaw. Having Amile and Plumlee in the same line-up reduces Amile's effectiveness on offense. Plumlee, right now, is nowhere on offense. FSU would essentially be playing 5-on-3 on defense. Secondly, Sulaimon's main asset - driving - is severely mitigated by having two large bodies in the middle who cannot shot beyond 4 feet. Sulaimon loves to drive and dish, and he's be restricted to Hood and Parker.

I like the idea, and maybe it would work if Amile had a mid-range, but it brings in too many issues and not enough solutions (other than size).

[Brockt10]

Firstly, welcome! Secondly, you've come to the right place as we love talking about line-ups and minutes.

With regards to your question, I think the answer is "nope". That line-up is huge and all those players can play those positions, but there is one fatal flaw. Having Amile and Plumlee in the same line-up reduces Amile's effectiveness on offense. Plumlee, right now, is nowhere on offense. FSU would essentially be playing 5-on-3 on defense. Secondly, Sulaimon's main asset - driving - is severely mitigated by having two large bodies in the middle who cannot shot beyond 4 feet. Sulaimon loves to drive and dish, and he's be restricted to Hood and Parker.

I like the idea, and maybe it would work if Amile had a mid-range, but it brings in too many issues and not enough solutions (other than size).

Well said and I agree with your point. I tend to not like Hood and Parker playing together...from a naked eye perspective they don't mesh well. I really just want to see Amile and Plumlee play significant minutes together to see what happens. This probably isn't the right game to try it with Florida St. shooting the three so well but maybe the Pitt game.

[DukieInBrasil]

Well said and I agree with your point. I tend to not like Hood and Parker playing together...from a naked eye perspective they don't mesh well. I really just want to see Amile and Plumlee play significant minutes together to see what happens. This probably isn't the right game to try it with Florida St. shooting the three so well but maybe the Pitt game.

As Dutch pointed out, neither Amile nor MP3 can shoot much more than a layup and they are both by far our worst FT shooters, so i'm not sure why you want them playing together so much. I also don't understand why you don't want Hood and Parker playing together, they're our two best players and are both versatile and tall, stretching and breaking defenses. I think they are our best combo and love seeing them play together.

[Kedsy]

Well said and I agree with your point. I tend to not like Hood and Parker playing together...from a naked eye perspective they don't mesh well. I really just want to see Amile and Plumlee play significant minutes together to see what happens. This probably isn't the right game to try it with Florida St. shooting the three so well but maybe the Pitt game.

I know you're new here, but we've been talking about playing Amile and Marshall together for quite awhile. Bottom line answer is it's unlikely, in large part for the reason FDD mentioned, that since neither Amile nor Marshall can play offense outside of a few feet, it would clog things up. An issue that would be exacerbated by putting three slasher types in the lineup together as well. This is not to say it might not happen for a couple minutes, but I'd be very surprised if we saw that lineup more than that in any game this season (and frankly, I'd be surprised if we saw it at all).

Also, despite its size, I'm not convinced that lineup would be very good defensively. We've played much better defense over the past few games, but neither Rodney nor Jabari have particularly quick feet on D and the lineup you propose would be even more prone to blow-bys and backdoor cuts than we are now. A lineup with Matt Jones or a focused Quinn Cook or Tyler Thornton or even the new, improved Andre Dawkins instead of a 2nd big would probably show much better defensive rotations (in addition to having more offensive balance). Which presumably is why Coach K plays the lineups he does, instead of basically the biggest lineup possible.

[Troublemaker]

Also, recently, FSU has spent at least half of the game using 6'8" 204-lb Okaro White at the 4. Their centers are huge yes, but for half the game at least, they're not really bigger than Duke at the other four positions.

Will be interesting to see who guards their mammoth centers Bojanovsky and Ojo, though. Coach K might put Amile on White since White is the greater scoring threat. But then that means Jabari has to guard the center, which I'm not too fond of. It would definitely be nice for MP3 to have a good game here.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I know you're new here, but we've been talking about playing Amile and Marshall together for quite awhile. Bottom line answer is it's unlikely, in large part for the reason FDD mentioned, that since neither Amile nor Marshall can play offense outside of a few feet, it would clog things up. An issue that would be exacerbated by putting three slasher types in the lineup together as well. This is not to say it might not happen for a couple minutes, but I'd be very surprised if we saw that lineup more than that in any game this season (and frankly, I'd be surprised if we saw it at all).

Also, despite its size, I'm not convinced that lineup would be very good defensively. We've played much better defense over the past few games, but neither Rodney nor Jabari have particularly quick feet on D and the lineup you propose would be even more prone to blow-bys and backdoor cuts than we are now. A lineup with Matt Jones or a focused Quinn Cook or Tyler Thornton or even the new, improved Andre Dawkins instead of a 2nd big would probably show much better defensive rotations (in addition to having more offensive balance). Which presumably is why Coach K plays the lineups he does, instead of basically the biggest lineup possible.

FQC, or Focused Quinn Cook, is a top 3 player - maybe top 2 - for Duke. Unfortunately, FQC only comes out in the first half, and sometimes not a full first half.

I agree that the over-abundance of slashers doesn't fully work, but it is beginning to be an option for Duke. Sulaimon is by far the best slasher on this team in terms of getting into the lane. With a line-up of Rasheed-[competent shooter]-Hood-Jabari-Amile, Rasheed getting into the lane really opens up the floor. If Rasheed shoots and misses, there is a decent chance that Amile gets the board. If Rasheed is covered well, he can pass out to one of the other shooters. I want to see more of the dribble-drive-dish from Sulaimon. It usually ends in an easy bucket, a foul, or a 3pt shot.

[superdave]

FQC, or Focused Quinn Cook, is a top 3 player - maybe top 2 - for Duke. Unfortunately, FQC only comes out in the first half, and sometimes not a full first half.

I agree that the over-abundance of slashers doesn't fully work, but it is beginning to be an option for Duke. Sulaimon is by far the best slasher on this team in terms of getting into the lane. With a line-up of Rasheed-[competent shooter]-Hood-Jabari-Amile, Rasheed getting into the lane really opens up the floor. If Rasheed shoots and misses, there is a decent chance that Amile gets the board. If Rasheed is covered well, he can pass out to one of the other shooters. I want to see more of the dribble-drive-dish from Sulaimon. It usually ends in an easy bucket, a foul, or a 3pt shot.

When Rasheed is on the floor, we need Amile and Jabari to sit just below the block on the baseline and wait for a dropoff pass so they can get an easy bucket. It's worked a handful of times, as has the dribble-draw and shorter alley-oop pass. Sitting on the baseline makes it hard for the defensive big to help and get back in time. Montrezl Harrell made a living doing this last season on Louisville's title run.

I thought Amile showed a few nice plays from the FT line against the zone as well. They werent jumpers but he put the ball on the floor and scored or dished pretty well. I am not so sure we will be counting on him to hit that shot this year.

[flyingdutchdevil]

When Rasheed is on the floor, we need Amile and Jabari to sit just below the block on the baseline and wait for a dropoff pass so they can get an easy bucket. It's worked a handful of times, as has the dribble-draw and shorter alley-oop pass. Sitting on the baseline makes it hard for the defensive big to help and get back in time. Montrezl Harrell made a living doing this last season on Louisville's title run.

I thought Amile showed a few nice plays from the FT line against the zone as well. They werent jumpers but he put the ball on the floor and scored or dished pretty well. I am not so sure we will be counting on him to hit that shot this year.

Couldn't agree more. But we don't need Amile to hit that shot. If Amile is playing the 5, he needs to rebound, defend, and hit a few lay-ups when in perfect position. With Jabari at the 4 and Josh playing spot minutes backing him up, I think we are able to spread the floor effectively.

The questions is next year. With Okafor here and a more physically (and mentally) mature MP3, Amile probably shouldn't be playing that much 5. Amile needs to be able to hit a mid-range, or at least give off the perception that he can. LT was never a good mid-range shooter, but he shoot quite a bit with mixed results. Let's see if Amile can do better.

[Henderson]

I'm not sure I would describe FSU as "big". I would describe them more as tall. Except for Michael Ojo (huge), their bigs aren't imposing except for all that height, which shows up mostly on the defensive end (i.e. none of their bigs is a dominant scorer). Their best big is Boris Bajanovsky, and he only averages 6 and 3 in fewer than 20 mpg. He does have 37 blocks on the season, though, which is about 2 per game. Long skinny arms.

Their real strength comes from two guards (Miller and Thomas) and the wing forward, White. Those guys all shoot more than 33% from 3 and more than 80% from the line. And Booker can be dangerous, but again, not a big guy.

So my take? We need to:

1. Score around big gangly guys in the middle. Athleticism.
2. Defend the perimeter.
3. Without putting their guards on the line. Ever.
4. Beat their bigs down the court and score quickly inside with Hood, Parker and Jefferson.
5. Do all the usual things well, like making available shots from the field and the line -- a sometimes surprisingly underestimated aspect of the game, that ball through the hoop thing.

[Brockt10]

Who do you think is the most underrated with the most upside potential on this roster?

[Newton_14]

FQC, or Focused Quinn Cook, is a top 3 player - maybe top 2 - for Duke. Unfortunately, FQC only comes out in the first half, and sometimes not a full first half.
.

Agree and this just annoys the heck out of me. I do not get why Quinn just cannot seem to play focused basketball for an entire game. He has all the tools, and when he is playing at his best, he takes this team to a higher level. In college hoops there is no more of a dangerous weapon, than a PG who can get into the lane and either score or dish for an easy score when the team is in desperate need of a hoop. Think Ty Lawson at Unc or Jason Williams at Duke. Quinn can and has done that in several games.

But then comes the loss of focus and bone head decisions like 2nd half of the Miami game. If he could just eliminate those moments, he could challenge for an All-American team spot. One thing that I feel will help in that regard is the new committment by K to a deeper bench. Quinn was getting 35+ mpg before this started, and now he is down under 30. I think that helps him in multiple ways. Keeps him fresher for one thing, while also taking away the thought process of "well I am going to play 35 minutes no matter how I play". Also shows him that the team can actually play well without him on the floor, so hopefully he recognizes that, and makes him committ to raising the level of his play.

It's not like he is a non-talented marginal player. The guy can play at an extremely high level, and does so something like 80% of the time. That other 20% of the time though is something Quinn has to address. I know he can, the question is will he?

[Edouble]

Couldn't agree more. But we don't need Amile to hit that shot. If Amile is playing the 5, he needs to rebound, defend, and hit a few lay-ups when in perfect position. With Jabari at the 4 and Josh playing spot minutes backing him up, I think we are able to spread the floor effectively.

The questions is next year. With Okafor here and a more physically (and mentally) mature MP3, Amile probably shouldn't be playing that much 5. Amile needs to be able to hit a mid-range, or at least give off the perception that he can. LT was never a good mid-range shooter, but he shoot quite a bit with mixed results. Let's see if Amile can do better.

Okafor at the 5 or not, there will be minutes available to Amile next season if he continues to rebound and play defense.

Also, I am curious if Brockt10 really meant that he doesn't like Hood and Parker playing together at the same time. That is one of the stranger things I have read on this board in quite a while.

[Eakane]

Agree and this just annoys the heck out of me. I do not get why Quinn just cannot seem to play focused basketball for an entire game. He has all the tools, and when he is playing at his best, he takes this team to a higher level. In college hoops there is no more of a dangerous weapon, than a PG who can get into the lane and either score or dish for an easy score when the team is in desperate need of a hoop. Think Ty Lawson at Unc or Jason Williams at Duke. Quinn can and has done that in several games.

But then comes the loss of focus and bone head decisions like 2nd half of the Miami game. If he could just eliminate those moments, he could challenge for an All-American team spot. One thing that I feel will help in that regard is the new committment by K to a deeper bench. Quinn was getting 35+ mpg before this started, and now he is down under 30. I think that helps him in multiple ways. Keeps him fresher for one thing, while also taking away the thought process of "well I am going to play 35 minutes no matter how I play". Also shows him that the team can actually play well without him on the floor, so hopefully he recognizes that, and makes him committ to raising the level of his play.

It's not like he is a non-talented marginal player. The guy can play at an extremely high level, and does so something like 80% of the time. That other 20% of the time though is something Quinn has to address. I know he can, the question is will he?

After the two turnovers and the intentional foul, the camera caught Cook, with an "aw-s**t-I-don't-want-to-come-out-of-the-game" look that was reminiscent of a freshman Bobby Hurley. When Bobby's attitude got better, he got better. Cook needs to do the same thing I love his passion; he just needs to find a positive way to channel it.

At its best, this is a team that can play with and beat anyone in the country. Part of being at our best is playing with poise. The team feeds off the PG, and Cook needs to understand his responsibility and his opportunity to take this team to the FF.

[bedeviled]

the camera caught Cook, with an "aw-s**t-I-don't-want-to-come-out-of-the-game" lookIIRC, he got caught with this look in the first half, too. I thought he was disappointed in his play - I don't recall what happened, but I was surprised because I didn't think it was a bad play. Then, the substitution came, which made me think that maybe he knew it was time for the next platoon. Something to keep an eye on.

[ForkFondler]

New to the forum.
This game scares me more than the upcoming Pitt game. Admittedly, I don't have much view time on Florida St, but don't like the recent box scores they have been posting. This will be a real test for the Devils and I hope they come out on top. With Florida state's size I would like to see the Sulaimon, Hood, Parker, Amile, and Plumlee lineup (Could be interesting). Anyone think this lineup could work?

During the regular season, when you play matters a lot. Midweek road trips to Florida are deadly. Getting FSU on a weekend 3 days after a home win is as good as it gets. A Monday game against Pitt 2 days after a trip to Talahassee, not so much.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

Let's pay them back for that acc champ football game.

[CDu]

Also, recently, FSU has spent at least half of the game using 6'8" 204-lb Okaro White at the 4. Their centers are huge yes, but for half the game at least, they're not really bigger than Duke at the other four positions.

Will be interesting to see who guards their mammoth centers Bojanovsky and Ojo, though. Coach K might put Amile on White since White is the greater scoring threat. But then that means Jabari has to guard the center, which I'm not too fond of. It would definitely be nice for MP3 to have a good game here.

I wouldn't even call that a recent trend. White has played PF for most of his career.

FSU will almost always have a 7-footer on the floor, but they are generally much smaller at PF.

[Dukehky]

I remember watching an FSU game earlier this year, can't remember which one, where Ojo was just incredible. As long as we avoid Ojo playing like Nnoko against Duke, I think we'll be okay. Duke for all it's defensive lapses, has remained a pretty good 3 point defending team. Should be an interesting game. Decent prep for what Pitt will offer without the perimeter talent of Patterson and the like.

I actually think Amile's speed will get their 7 footers into foul trouble because I think he will stay aggressive when he has the opportunity.

If we play well, we should be okay, but Saturday at Noon tip-off games are kinda tough to get up for. We'll see.

Go Duke.

[Troublemaker]

I remember watching an FSU game earlier this year, can't remember which one, where Ojo was just incredible. As long as we avoid Ojo playing like Nnoko against Duke, I think we'll be okay. Duke for all it's defensive lapses, has remained a pretty good 3 point defending team. Should be an interesting game. Decent prep for what Pitt will offer without the perimeter talent of Patterson and the like.

Yeah, agreed. And I think Amile + MP3 have the best chance of preventing Ojo (or Bojanovsky) from becoming Nnoko.



I actually think Amile's speed will get their 7 footers into foul trouble because I think he will stay aggressive when he has the opportunity.


Yes! I would love to see Amile drive into their chests and get some calls, Julius Randle style.

[kAzE]

I know you're new here, but we've been talking about playing Amile and Marshall together for quite awhile. Bottom line answer is it's unlikely, in large part for the reason FDD mentioned, that since neither Amile nor Marshall can play offense outside of a few feet, it would clog things up. An issue that would be exacerbated by putting three slasher types in the lineup together as well. This is not to say it might not happen for a couple minutes, but I'd be very surprised if we saw that lineup more than that in any game this season (and frankly, I'd be surprised if we saw it at all).

Also, despite its size, I'm not convinced that lineup would be very good defensively. We've played much better defense over the past few games, but neither Rodney nor Jabari have particularly quick feet on D and the lineup you propose would be even more prone to blow-bys and backdoor cuts than we are now. A lineup with Matt Jones or a focused Quinn Cook or Tyler Thornton or even the new, improved Andre Dawkins instead of a 2nd big would probably show much better defensive rotations (in addition to having more offensive balance). Which presumably is why Coach K plays the lineups he does, instead of basically the biggest lineup possible.

I subscribe to the theory that Plumlee and Jefferson in the lineup would cause spacing issues on offense, but I was thinking about this during the Miami game, and there was actually a stretch (I think in the second half) where they were both in the game at the same time. My memory's fuzzy, so I don't remember how it worked out, but it shows at least Coach K is willing to experiment with that lineup.

[nyesq83]

throw some weird double teams on their top five players at random times

unpredictable-ize Duke!

[Kedsy]

During the regular season, when you play matters a lot. Midweek road trips to Florida are deadly. Getting FSU on a weekend 3 days after a home win is as good as it gets. A Monday game against Pitt 2 days after a trip to Talahassee, not so much.

Well, there's no trip to Talahassee involved here. We have a home game tomorrow against FSU.

[jv001]

I think this game will give us an indication as to where we are defensively against a very tall team. I know the FSU big guys are not Bill Russell and Wilt but they are "big". It may also tell us how far Marshall has come in his development and if Coach K's trust in Marshall has grown. I know we won't see Marshall and Amile in the lineup together for many minutes, but I'm pretty sure Amile will need some rest. I'm hoping to see MPIII have a very good game in the minutes he gets. I'm looking for Andre to catch a hot steak in this game and loosen up the middle for drives from our athletic guys. Should be a fun game. GoDuke!

[Troublemaker]

Duke is 8.5 point favorites, fyi

[Bob Green]

Duke is currently an 8.5 points favorite in Vegas. Today is another opportunity to watch the team take another step forward toward developing into champions. Coach K deciding to play a deep rotation is a major change and his decision has invigorated me as a fan. This team has become really exciting to watch over the past few games. Much more important is it appears Coach K has invigorated the team. I believe the guys have a huge upside moving forward. Hopefully I still feel this way after the next three games have been played.

[lotusland]

I remember watching an FSU game earlier this year, can't remember which one, where Ojo was just incredible. As long as we avoid Ojo playing like Nnoko against Duke, I think we'll be okay. Duke for all it's defensive lapses, has remained a pretty good 3 point defending team. Should be an interesting game. Decent prep for what Pitt will offer without the perimeter talent of Patterson and the like.

I actually think Amile's speed will get their 7 footers into foul trouble because I think he will stay aggressive when he has the opportunity.

If we play well, we should be okay, but Saturday at Noon tip-off games are kinda tough to get up for. We'll see.

Go Duke.

with fsu shooting lights out from3 but not so much in the post, this might be a game where duke allows a normally limited big man to get double digits while limiting the good looks from 3. If duke wins I'll be ok with that.

[GGLC]

Duke is currently an 8.5 points favorite in Vegas. Today is another opportunity to watch the team take another step forward toward developing into champions. Coach K deciding to play a deep rotation is a major change and his decision has invigorated me as a fan. This team has become really exciting to watch over the past few games. Much more important is it appears Coach K has invigorated the team. I believe the guys have a huge upside moving forward. Hopefully I still feel this way after the next three games have been played.

Well said, Bob.

[jv001]

Duke is currently an 8.5 points favorite in Vegas. Today is another opportunity to watch the team take another step forward toward developing into champions. Coach K deciding to play a deep rotation is a major change and his decision has invigorated me as a fan. This team has become really exciting to watch over the past few games. Much more important is it appears Coach K has invigorated the team. I believe the guys have a huge upside moving forward. Hopefully I still feel this way after the next three games have been played.

Me too my Navy friend. GoDuke!

[Bob Green]

Duke is currently an 8.5 points favorite in Vegas.

The over/under is posted at 146.5 points so picking Duke and the over would come out to 78-69.

[devildeac]

The over/under is posted at 146.5 points so picking Duke and the over would come out to 78-69.

I'll take that, Bob. Can we hold you to that;)?

[Gthoma2a]

No Hood. That's not how I wanted to start this, but Dawkins with a 3.

[DukieInBrasil]

No Hood. That's not how I wanted to start this, but Dawkins with a 3.

what's up with Hood? Did he not start? I'm in the lab now and will be making my way to the game momentarily!!!

[Gthoma2a]

what's up with Hood? Did he not start? I'm in the lab now and will be making my way to the game momentarily!!!

No. He was struck ill right before the game.

[El_Diablo]

No Hood. That's not how I wanted to start this, but Dawkins with a 3.

It sounds like he had to drop the kids off at the pool.

EDIT: Whatever the reason, he's back now.

[Ggallagher]

No. He was struck ill right before the game.

Hood just came into the game

[Gthoma2a]

Doris is frustrating me. She is going way over to FSU, IMO. Every call that goes our way she argues. The game is being called really tight, though.

Hood is back.

[Furniture]

I thought the same thing. Anyone see Plumlee push?

[arnie]

No. He was struck ill right before the game.

Doris Burke has no place announcing these games. Already on the Elmore rant even when replay shows her comments wrong. Very difficult listening to her.

[Gthoma2a]

I thought the same thing. Anyone see Plumlee push?

Maybe she is still thinking they are going to call defense a foul.

[killerleft]

Doris imitates a jackass often. Not enough contact for the FSU charge, just enough for a foul on MP3.

[Gthoma2a]

Cook hurt again. Ankle again.

We are not having good luck today (first we get Doris, then Hood, ridiculous fouls, Tyler gets cut and Quinn hurts himself).

[Gthoma2a]

They're not calling it tight for us. That is just for FSU. Hood just got beaten on a drive he was taking to the basket.

Between the bad shooting and the calls, this one is going to be rough (nail-biter).

[arnie]

Doris imitates a jackass often. Not enough contact for the FSU charge, just enough for a foul on MP3.

She has no clue and no business in the booth.

[Furniture]

K gettin angry..

[uh_no]

They're not calling it tight for us. That is just for FSU. Hood just got beaten on a drive he was taking to the basket.

Between the bad shooting and the calls, this one is going to be rough.

mmmm 8 minutes into the game and we're already preparing to blame the refs for the loss....not the fact that we're getting killed in transition....not the fact that we're taking poor shots....just the couple calls.

[Gthoma2a]

She has no clue and no business in the booth.

All you have to do to get in the booth for ESPN is go against Duke, a great deal of the time.

[Gthoma2a]

mmmm 8 minutes into the game and we're already preparing to blame the refs for the loss....not the fact that we're getting killed in transition....not the fact that we're taking poor shots....just the couple calls.

No. Not at all. Note that I added context after. We're not going to just pull away in this one. The game doesn't have much flow and we're not hitting our shots. That, and the touch fouls like the one on Quinn to start and then on Plumlee (both of them; including the one where one ref had it as a walk on FSU, but they ultimately decided to keep the foul on Marshall) are not being called consistently. Not complaining that the refs are stealing it, but saying that they can't make up their minds. We will still win, IMO. We won't be able to look away while we make some popcorn, though.

[killerleft]

mmmm 8 minutes into the game and we're already preparing to blame the refs for the loss....not the fact that we're getting killed in transition....not the fact that we're taking poor shots....just the couple calls.

I'M blaming Doris Burke;)

[uh_no]

I'M blaming Doris Burke;)

yeah, according to DBR, the stench of her awfulness is reeking all over cameron and must be the reason for these failures \s.....some of the comments here are reaching IC levels of vitrol....

[Furniture]

I'm not blaming the refs or drawing any conclusions yet but Marshall was definitely held on his second foul...

[Gthoma2a]

yeah, according to DBR, the stench of her awfulness is reeking all over cameron and must be the reason for these failures \s.....some of the comments here are reaching IC levels of vitrol....

No. The NCAA hasn't been called a big government conspiracy that we need to just withdraw from, we haven't started insisting that we would be great if we had X recruit for next year in this game, and no one has called for K to be fired. Not to mention, nobody is insulting our players or saying our program has past its time. That is IC. Your statement is hyperbole.

We are taking some ill-advised shots (like we often do and hit), but I was pointing out that lots of things were happening within the game.

As for Doris, I just don't tend to like her attitude when she is calling games. She does seem to be settling into both teams. Those first three comments on calls did seem to be reaching for FSU, though.

[ElSid]

Really surprised at all the anti Doris sentiment. I find her to be one of the more objective commentators. Commentators get an undue amount of attention during these games. Almost as if you're blaming Doris for a bad call or our horrible transition defense. Still find her better than Len Elmore.

[arnie]

No. The NCAA hasn't been called a big government conspiracy that we need to just withdraw from, we haven't started insisting that we would be great if we had X recruit for next year in this game, and no one has called for K to be fired. Not to mention, nobody is insulting our players or saying our program has past its time. That is IC. Your statement is hyperbole.

We are taking some ill-advised shots (like we often do and hit), but I was pointing out that lots of things were happening within the game.

As for Doris, I just don't tend to like her attitude when she is calling games.

Doris seeking redemption.

[uh_no]

Your statement is hyperbole. I was referring to statements such as

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?32916-MBB-Duke-v-Florida-St-Pre-Game-amp-In-Game-Thread-(1-25-1200-EST-ESPN)&p=697398#post697398

which is a bit over the line IMO for someone who is at worst competent. People may not like her, but hating like that is not becoming of this board IMO. Be reasonable and accurate in criticism....don't just throw blanket statements (e.g. "s/he sucks I mute when s/he's on"). That's what is IC like.



As for Doris, I just don't tend to like her attitude when she is calling games.

I think this is reasonable. we all have preferenaces...and nobody is forced to agree with any given commentator, but when people take that dislike and use it to unequivocally slam someone without any supporting argument, that bothers me. These are people that have generally worked their way up and are pretty good.....(as I say this, doris just complimented amile on his defense and chided the refs for a foul call against us). Let's be reasonable in our criticism of all people....our players, our opponents, refs, commentators....everyone.

I understand the need to have fun and make jokes, but sometimes we cross the line.

[duke4ever19]

Hello, Doris, I would like to introduce you to my mute button.

[Ggallagher]

And she did just instantly and correctly come to Jefferson's defense on that bad call against him. She may talk a lot - but she IS talking about this game unlike...... say Dickie V.

[CameronBlue]

Really surprised at all the anti Doris sentiment. I find her to be one of the more objective commentators. Commentators get an undue amount of attention during these games. Almost as if you're blaming Doris for a bad call or our horrible transition defense. Still find her better than Len Elmore.

It's Saturday. The Union of Wet Nurses successfully negotiated this day off for the rank and file.

[Gthoma2a]

I was referring to statements such as

http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?32916-MBB-Duke-v-Florida-St-Pre-Game-amp-In-Game-Thread-(1-25-1200-EST-ESPN)&p=697398#post697398

which is a bit over the line IMO for someone who is at worst competent. People may not like her, but hating like that is not becoming of this board IMO. Be reasonable and accurate in criticism....don't just throw blanket statements (e.g. "s/he sucks I mute when s/he's on"). That's what is IC like.



I think this is reasonable. we all have preferenaces...and nobody is forced to agree with any given commentator, but when people take that dislike and use it to unequivocally slam someone without any supporting argument, that bothers me. These are people that have generally worked their way up and are pretty good.....(as I say this, doris just complimented amile on his defense and chided the refs for a foul call against us). Let's be reasonable in our criticism of all people....our players, our opponents, refs, commentators....everyone.

I understand the need to have fun and make jokes, but sometimes we cross the line.

Alright. I was just making sure it wasn't just my disagreement with her ebb and flow of favor. I know she knows the game.

Marshall Plumlee lifts my spirits with the dunk.

[duke09hms]

PLUMLEE with the offensive rebound dunk! And calmly gets back on D without freaking out!

[Furniture]

Very strange line up there for a moment.
TT, Josh, Marshall, cook and Rodney.

[FerryFor50]

A lot of complaining considering Duke is up 16 and outrebounding a larger team.

[duke09hms]

Marshall again with the offensive rebound to set up Quinn's 3!

MOAR PLUMLEE!

[SupaDave]

Plumlee playing BIG minutes and appears to have energized the entire team.

Thank God FSU sucks at free throws...

Dare I say it but is Marshall putting the world on notice?

[arnie]

PLUMLEE with the offensive rebound dunk! And calmly gets back on D without freaking out!

Umm- think its time for Plumlee to take most of Hairstons minutes.

[FerryFor50]

Plumlee playing BIG minutes and appears to have energized the entire team.

Thank God FSU sucks at free throws...

Eh if they hit em all, they'd only have 6 extra points. Still getting their butts kicked. :)

[Gthoma2a]

Marshall is killing it! Leading the break.

[duke09hms]

PLUMLEE AGAIN with the finish on the break!!! Sweet reverse layup!

Those are run-n-jump athletes those Plumlee boys!

[SupaDave]

Eh if they hit em all, they'd only have 6 extra points. Still getting their butts kicked. :)

Almost - they've missed the front ends of some one and ones as well. They could easily have kept it tight.

[ElSid]

We are Marshall! So proud of that kid.

[striker219]

Still find her better than Len Elmore.

Much in the same way that a cold is better than the flu.

[arnie]

Much in the same way that a cold is better than the flu.

Post of the day so far!

[wsb3]

Favorite part of the 1st half was the smile on Marshall's face when he ran back up the court after scoring on the layup. He was deep in the paint on defense and beat everyone down court. I could not be happier for him.

[riverside6]

Wasn't able to post the link before the game, but here is the link to the halftime stats for Duke/FSU...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=20068

[CLW]

The Platoon has made all the difference with the energy level of this team ESPECIALLY on the defensive end. Forcing 12 turnovers in the half on 8 steals. Marshall making a TON of plays on effort/energy out there as well to blow the game open with that late run.

[killerleft]

Great comeback by the Devils from the early Burke-Ref blockade!!!! MP3 beautiful lay-up off a fine pass by Rasheed was the highlight for me.

[Furniture]

Lots of unplanned things went on in that half that 4 games ago might has meant a different result. This team is learning how to win! Dominance!

[CLW]

On Hood is he just prone to colds/sickness or does he get nerves before games this is at least twice now he has been announced starter and then couldn't go due to being ill :confused:

[uh_no]

Lots of unplanned things went on in that half that 4 games ago might has meant a different result. This team is learning how to win! Dominance!

yeah....easily the most impressive defensive half of the year....they're a pretty good offense and we're absolutely quashing them right now

[bbosbbos]

For a few minutes I thought I was watching MP2 playing. I love his performance.

[sagegrouse]

This game figured to be a test for Duke fans, pitting those with altimania ("Marshall must play!") against those with altiphobia ("FSU's three seven footers will make mincemeat of us!"). One can be both -- altiphibious we call it. Right now the altimaniacs are winning on the strength of a Marshall sequence that will make him part of the rotation for the rest of the season. The altiphobiacs also have to deal with the fact that Duke is not only ahead but has outrebounded the Seminoles 23-14.

[ChillinDuke]

Between the bad shooting and the calls, this one is going to be rough (nail-biter).

Until it's not.

I know it's an in-game thread, but let them play the game.

We're smackin' em good at half.

- Chillin

[uh_no]

Until it's not.

I know it's an in-game thread, but let them play the game.

We're smackin' em good at half.

- Chillin

in all three phases of the game....offense, defense, special teams....we're on a roll!

#WeWantBama

oh wait wrong sport

[Gthoma2a]

in all three phases of the game....offense, defense, special teams....we're on a roll!

#WeWantBama

oh wait wrong sport

I'd rather have FSU in that sport, too.

[Furniture]

Watching the replay of MP3's second basket I swear he is is smiling before he receives the ball, as he carries it, as he scores and afterwards. Smiler!

[uh_no]

i'm not sure i'm a fan of jabari trying to get a shot off in the post against a double and triple team....he doesn't want to give up, which is great, but the best play is to find the open guy there

[Gthoma2a]

Most important point of the game! MOTM Plumlee!

[FerryFor50]

Plumlee hits a FT! The drought is over!

[duke09hms]

With Amile in foul trouble, Marshall doing a good job of filling his spot. 5 pts 4rebs so far. And just MADE A FREE THROW!

[uh_no]

Plumlee hits a FT! The drought is over!

love that cameron went nuts

[Furniture]

Plumlee hits a FT! The drought is over!

Both FT's had a very nice natural float and arc....well done young man!

[DukieInBrasil]

The ice is broken!!! MP3 made a FT!!! Finally!!!

[bbosbbos]

He did make it. 1st one, 1st one, omg

[arnie]

He did make it. 1st one, 1st one, omg

Maybe the worst H had ever played

[FerryFor50]

I hate when a guy who just got hit with an elbow to the face has his head jerk back a bit and the announcer says he "sold it." That implies he's faking it. I'd like to see the announcer react to an elbow to the face.

[arnie]

I hate when a guy who just got hit with an elbow to the face has his head jerk back a bit and the announcer says he "sold it." That implies he's faking it. I'd like to see the announcer react to an elbow to the face.

Yea I don't think Amile was selling anything - looked like he was surprised.

[duke09hms]

Don't like how when FSU isn't turning it over, they're scoring at will.

[uh_no]

Don't like how when FSU isn't turning it over, they're scoring at will.

yeah, the second half D has been significantly worse than first half

[Gthoma2a]

Yea I don't think Amile was selling anything - looked like he was surprised.

This is selling it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkvCr3ys_So

[porkpa]

yeah, the second half D has been significantly worse than first half

That would apply to almost every game we've played this year.

[uh_no]

That would apply to almost every game we've played this year.

is it? i don't have access to the stats to back that up.....either way...

they put up a 73 in the first half, and are putting up around a 113 this half...40 points worse is really bad.

[Gthoma2a]

3 in a game!

[killerleft]

I actually agree with Doris Burke on the flagrant committed against Cook.

[duke09hms]

Marshall's found his FT stroke! 3-4 from the line.

Where did our defense go?

[bbosbbos]

MP3 3 FT. wow

But but where is D? No one is playing D... what!

[killerleft]

This is the point in some earlier games when we've tended to let up and lose comfortable leads. Let's go Duke!

[PSurprise]

I actually agree with Doris Burke on the flagrant committed against Cook.

Yes, taking off the blue glasses, she is correct

Though I must confess I'm not complaining

[arnie]

I actually agree with Doris Burke on the flagrant committed against Cook.

Except she's overselling it since they admit they can't see from the crows nest.

[uh_no]

Except she's overselling it since they admit they can't see from the crows nest.

right. because they don't have TV monitors up there or anything.

[duke09hms]

But but where is D? No one is playing D... what!

FSU is only 2-4 from three. Maybe that's our strategy? Take away their 3-ball, give them the 2. FSU is the best 3-pt shooting team in the ACC.

[duke4ever19]

Line-drive freethrows from Jefferson.

[jipops]

Defense is back to being awful

[Gthoma2a]

Line-drive freethrows from Jefferson.

MP3 could show him a thing or two.

[uh_no]

god...that last possession was the epitome of this teams woes down the stretch

dribble
dribble
dribble
dribble
quinn jacks up an awful three

contrast to the next possession where sulaimon takes it inside and oh man, they get jabari open who then gets fouled...almost like we should try that more often than dribbling it around listlessly

[porkpa]

I hate slow down basketball by us. I say continue riding the horse that brought you here.

[killerleft]

We need for somebody to take charge and score a few and we'll weather this little storm...

[FerryFor50]

I suspect Aaron Thomas has never committed a foul based on his reaction every time he gets called.

[uh_no]

I hate slow down basketball by us. I say continue riding the horse that brought you here.

if you do it right, it can work....but this team can't do it right....at 15 seconds or so you gotta make the switch to actually trying to score...and we jsut keep dribbling as if we have no idea what's going on...and then jack up a three....

[killerleft]

if you do it right, it can work....but this team can't do it right....at 15 seconds or so you gotta make the switch to actually trying to score...and we jsut keep dribbling as if we have no idea what's going on...and then jack up a three....

Agreed. Especially when we're not scoring for a while to begin with.

[uh_no]

Agreed. Especially when we're not scoring for a while to begin with.

personally, I just don't think it's an offense quinn is comfortable running...he's just not comfortable taking guys off the dribble when tightly guarded like that....we see a huge dichotomy when sulaimon is running the O in those situations, where he CAN break guys down and create havoc....and that's what he does....so I like sulaimon with the ball there. he's going drive as his go to there, rather than chuck it up.