PDA

View Full Version : 2014 USA National Team Pre-Tournament Thread



Pages : [1] 2 3

awhom111
01-22-2014, 08:48 PM
http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/6417/fd4m.png

Since it is our coach taking charge, this looks like something we should start paying attention to. A few leaks are coming out about who might be on this first big list. I will go on record again and say that this is stupid idea for 2014 much less 2016. Personally it makes more sense to me to name only a 2014 pool and do so much closer to the end of the NBA season. I think it works much better to not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Does anyone see any possible surprises? Who would you like to see get the chance this summer?

We are just over a week away from finding out the identity of the last four teams in the tournament followed by the draw that will give us our first five opponents.

awhom111
01-23-2014, 08:49 AM
ESPN and others already leaked the list yesterday, but here is the official info:

Roster:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national/14_mnt_roster.html
Story:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national/14_mnt_28players.html
Bios:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national/14mnt_bios.html
Quotes:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national/14_mnt_roster_teleconf_quotes.html

Ichabod Drain
01-23-2014, 08:53 AM
Would love to see Kyrie and Steph on the team

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 08:59 AM
Looks like Team USA will not have any issues with big men. Wow!

Given Kyrie's good-but-not-great play this year and the plethora of amazing PGs, he may be on the fence. On the flip-side, given the lack of outside shooting, I think Steph is a near guarantee.

superdave
01-23-2014, 09:10 AM
Here is the roster split out by Guards/Wings/Bigs:

Bigs -
LaMarcus Aldridge
Tyson Chandler
DeMarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis
Andre Drummond
Kenneth Faried
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
David Lee
Kevin Love

Wings -
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Andre Iguodala
Kyle Korver
Kawhi Leonard

Guards -
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Kyrie Irving
Damian Lillard
Deron Williams
Klay Thompson
Bradley Beal
James Harden
Gordon Hayward

There are a few things to look out for with this roster. One big one is injuries. Chris Paul has missed the last 9 Clips games with a shoulder injury. But his knees will be what to watch for. Deron williams has also missed a big chunk of games this year. Who knows how Derrick Rose will be this summer (or again, ever). Kyrie Irving and Steph Curry both also seem to get banged up a lot. That's a lot of lead guards with injury histories. Dwyane Wade is no longer on the roster, as he seems to be keeping mileage off his knees.

The next issue I'd watch out for is attitude. Some guys are not pre-disposed to buy into the team concept. Demarcus Cousins will have to go the extra mile to prove he is. Guys like Igoudala and Chandler who dont have egos and dont need shots seem be the favorites of Colangelo and K.

For this summer, I'd love to see some of the more junior guys play. A backcourt of Irving, Curry, George, Lillard, Harden and Korver, along with a frontcourt of Aldridge, Davis, Drummond, Love, Griffin and Leonard would be pretty good. We can expect the bigger names to sit out this summer, similar to 2010, right?

timmy c
01-23-2014, 09:24 AM
No Wade or Bosh? Not a complete surprise because they both missed 2012, although not completely their fault, they were dealing with injuries.
For those looking for tea leaves about where LeBron will play next year, this could add a little drama.

Ichabod Drain
01-23-2014, 09:40 AM
Players can be added to the team correct? Wasn't Anthony Davis added last minute to the 2012 USA team. Just wondering why it says 2014-2016.

superdave
01-23-2014, 09:52 AM
Players can be added to the team correct? Wasn't Anthony Davis added last minute to the 2012 USA team. Just wondering why it says 2014-2016.

First Paragraph:"USA Basketball Chairman and National Team Managing Director Jerry Colangelo may add athletes at any time."

FerryFor50
01-23-2014, 10:28 AM
No Wade or Bosh? Not a complete surprise because they both missed 2012, although not completely their fault, they were dealing with injuries.
For those looking for tea leaves about where LeBron will play next year, this could add a little drama.

How does that add any drama? I think Team USA selection and NBA free agency are not tied together in any way.

Wade isn't playing because he can barely play half an NBA season any more. He's trying to extend his career.

Bosh's exclusion is a little weirder to me, but he may get added later.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 10:32 AM
How does that add any drama? I think Team USA selection and NBA free agency are not tied together in any way.

Wade isn't playing because he can barely play half an NBA season any more. He's trying to extend his career.

Bosh's exclusion is a little weirder to me, but he may get added later.

If players indicate that they don't want to be on the roster, are their names removed? I'm sure Colangelo and Coach K have spoken with Bosh, Wade, Bryant, etc. before not including their names. These players may not want anything to do with Team USA anymore as they are old, injury prone, or just want to spend time with their families. Can't really blame them.

Lebron never said no to Team USA, but I'd be really surprised if he decided to play in 2014 or 2016. He's already accomplished so much and has little to prove.

FerryFor50
01-23-2014, 10:34 AM
If players indicate that they don't want to be on the roster, are their names removed? I'm sure Colangelo and Coach K have spoken with Bosh, Wade, Bryant, etc. before not including their names. These players may not want anything to do with Team USA anymore as they are old, injury prone, or just want to spend time with their families. Can't really blame them.

Lebron never said no to Team USA, but I'd be really surprised if he decided to play in 2014 or 2016. He's already accomplished so much and has little to prove.

Usually you hear about players turning roster spots down, such as in DWade's case. I hadn't heard anything about Bosh. But it sounds like a family thing:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-s012314,0,1645391.story


"He was just not part of our mix last time in London," Colangelo said. "His own physical situation, he's concentrating on his NBA career.

"It's time for us to move on."

Bosh bypassed the 2012 Olympics, with his wedding schedule for that summer. He said his priority now is spending time with his children, indicated he, too, is done with the Olympic program.

timmy c
01-23-2014, 10:51 AM
How does that add any drama? I think Team USA selection and NBA free agency are not tied together in any way.

Wade isn't playing because he can barely play half an NBA season any more. He's trying to extend his career.

Bosh's exclusion is a little weirder to me, but he may get added later.

LeBron went to Miami to play with Bosh and Wade. They are friends and have enjoyed success playing together. But Bosh and Wade's stars have dimmed while LeBron continues to separate himself as potentially the best player to ever play the game. Where he plays next year will be the biggest news of next offseason.

Bosh is an ideal international big who has played with USA basketball in the past. I find his exclusion (and in a lesser way, Wade) interesting. It is partially interesting, because it could signal the separation of LeBron and the Heat. Or it could mean nothing.

I find that interesting, that doesn't mean you have to.

Dev11
01-23-2014, 11:13 AM
How does that add any drama? I think Team USA selection and NBA free agency are not tied together in any way.

Wade isn't playing because he can barely play half an NBA season any more. He's trying to extend his career.

Bosh's exclusion is a little weirder to me, but he may get added later.

Given that their idea to all go to the same team together was hatched during summers with USA Basketball, I wouldn't be surprised if it has some tangential impact on Lebron's next free agency move. There are a lot of talented young guys on this potential roster.

Olympic Fan
01-23-2014, 11:24 AM
Love the roster ... not too surprised to see Kobe, Wade and Bosh drop off. Actually, I'm a bit surprised (and delighted) to see LeBron still on it.

When K first started this thing, his big three were Kobe, LeBron and Carmello -- in that order. By 2012, LeBron had passed Kobe as No. 1.

I think in 2016, the big three will be LeBron, Durant and Paul George (who is blowing up in the NBA this year).

I think we will see some of the younger guys in the world championship this summer. Remember, in 2010, none of the original big three played. Young guys like Durant, Rose, Chandler, Love and Curry were the stars. I think they'll five the older guys -- especially LeBron and Carmello -- the summer off to rest up and be ready for Rio.

BTW: The only omission that surprised me was Roy Hibbert. He's having a great year (read an article recently suggesting that he's the frontrunner for the DPOY award). Obviously, he brings great size.

Maybe he just didn't want to do it.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 11:32 AM
Love the roster ... not too surprised to see Kobe, Wade and Bosh drop off. Actually, I'm a bit surprised (and delighted) to see LeBron still on it.

When K first started this thing, his big three were Kobe, LeBron and Carmello -- in that order. By 2012, LeBron had passed Kobe as No. 1.

I think in 2016, the big three will be LeBron, Durant and Paul George (who is blowing up in the NBA this year).

I think we will see some of the younger guys in the world championship this summer. Remember, in 2010, none of the original big three played. Young guys like Durant, Rose, Chandler, Love and Curry were the stars. I think they'll five the older guys -- especially LeBron and Carmello -- the summer off to rest up and be ready for Rio.

BTW: The only omission that surprised me was Roy Hibbert. He's having a great year (read an article recently suggesting that he's the frontrunner for the DPOY award). Obviously, he brings great size.

Maybe he just didn't want to do it.

Roy Hibbert is an interesting case. However, given the international game, you want a 5 who can rebound and shoot some. That's why I bolded Team USA's starting 5 above ;)

He brings great size, shooting, and rebounding. He's not the best defender, but you don't need 5 insanely good defenders on the floor at once. That's what Paul George, Iggy, Davis, and Westbrook are for.

Speaking of D, the guards are pretty atrocious at D. Harden, Irving, Curry, Lillard, and Thompson are all sub-par defenders (and in the case of the first year, pretty terrible defenders). I could see this team being very heavy on 3s and light on traditional 2s.

timmy c
01-23-2014, 11:32 AM
BTW: The only omission that surprised me was Roy Hibbert. He's having a great year (read an article recently suggesting that he's the frontrunner for the DPOY award). Obviously, he brings great size.

Maybe he just didn't want to do it.

I believe Hibbert has duel citizenship, USA/Jamaica. He has played with the Jamaican national team in the past. I am not sure that he would be eligible, even if he got an offer.

Ichabod Drain
01-23-2014, 11:34 AM
BTW: The only omission that surprised me was Roy Hibbert. He's having a great year (read an article recently suggesting that he's the frontrunner for the DPOY award). Obviously, he brings great size.

Maybe he just didn't want to do it.

Roy Hibbert played on a Jamaican national team when he was younger.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 11:35 AM
I believe Hibbert has duel citizenship, USA/Jamaica. He has played with the Jamaican national team in the past. I am not sure that he would be eligible, even if he got an offer.

Yup: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/63111/roy-hibberts-team-usa-chances-bleak

Olympic Fan
01-23-2014, 11:56 AM
Yup: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/63111/roy-hibberts-team-usa-chances-bleak

Thanks for the link -- that explains a lot.

I knew Hibbert was born in New York City, but I guess that doesn't matter ... after all, Kyrie was born in Australia.

I wonder where Wiggins will eventually play international ball? He's listed as a Canadian and was born there, but I know his father was an American (his mother a Canadian track star)

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 11:58 AM
Thanks for the link -- that explains a lot.

I knew Hibbert was born in New York City, but I guess that doesn't matter ... after all, Kyrie was born in Australia.

I wonder where Wiggins will eventually play international ball? He's listed as a Canadian and was born there, but I know his father was an American (his mother a Canadian track star)

I think that depends on how good Wiggins will be. If he's Lebron-esque or anything close, I'm sure he'll want to play for Team USA. If he's really good but not great and likely won't start for Team USA for even be a 6th, 7th, or 8th man, why not be the star of Team Canada?

brevity
01-23-2014, 11:59 AM
Question: does Anthony Bennett even make the Canadian national team?

The Canada Basketball (http://www.basketball.ca/) website has made no similar announcement aboot a 2014 roster. They do have a section called "Canadians in the NBA," which offers this tidbit:


With the acquisition of Luol Deng, playing time has been virtually inexistent for young Canadian, Anthony Bennett.

Oh, so THAT'S what happened. ("Inexistent"? It's a word (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inexistent).)

BD80
01-23-2014, 12:52 PM
Love the roster ... Actually, I'm a bit surprised (and delighted) to see LeBron still on it. ...

Maybe this is LBJ's try-out for his next team. He is using this to see which sidekicks to choose for his next phase. He then goes to his next (lucky SOB) coach and says: "this is how Coach K and I did it with these guys, and we beat everybody in the world (again)"

superdave
01-23-2014, 01:38 PM
Maybe this is LBJ's try-out for his next team. He is using this to see which sidekicks to choose for his next phase. He then goes to his next (lucky SOB) coach and says: "this is how Coach K and I did it with these guys, and we beat everybody in the world (again)"

You know what, that could be fun to watch. Off the top of my head, Houston would be cool with Howard/Harden/Lin/Asik (with Asik as sign/trade bait?). The Lakers could work with only Kobe and Nash tied up for the 14/15 season. Nash could retire, creating more space. But that's a building project.

I would think with Howard/Harden on the USA roster, that just may be the one likely big market team where friendships could help pull Lebron one way or another.

FerryFor50
01-23-2014, 01:40 PM
You know what, that could be fun to watch. Off the top of my head, Houston would be cool with Howard/Harden/Lin/Asik (with Asik as sign/trade bait?). The Lakers could work with only Kobe and Nash tied up for the 14/15 season. Nash could retire, creating more space. But that's a building project.

I would think with Howard/Harden on the USA roster, that just may be the one likely big market team where friendships could help pull Lebron one way or another.

Or Portland with Aldridge/Lillard...

Dev11
01-23-2014, 02:00 PM
Or Portland with Aldridge/Lillard...

Somehow, I just don't see Lebron moving to Portland. Houston, sure.

But I agree with the premise, Lebron has previously used Team USA to scout out new teammates. No reason he won't do it again.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 02:04 PM
Somehow, I just don't see Lebron moving to Portland. Houston, sure.

But I agree with the premise, Lebron has previously used Team USA to scout out new teammates. No reason he won't do it again.

How about Phoenix? Fantastic PG in Dragic, exciting 2 in Bledsoe, little talent at the 3 and 4, and a rim protector at the 5 in Plumlee with tons of big men options off the bench. Plus, they have a ton of cap room and 3 first round picks.

Bottom line - invest in Phoenix stock.

Billy Dat
01-23-2014, 08:00 PM
I think we will see some of the younger guys in the world championship this summer. Remember, in 2010, none of the original big three played. Young guys like Durant, Rose, Chandler, Love and Curry were the stars. I think they'll five the older guys -- especially LeBron and Carmello -- the summer off to rest up and be ready for Rio.

I like your focus, Olympic Fan. Whenever they announce the "Cycle Roster", the only topic to realistically dive into, after noting the names missing, is to start to predict the next squad - as you say - the one representing the US at this summer's World Cup of Basketball (formerly the World Championships).

Hoops scribe Chris Sheridan has been covering Team USA for about 20 years and here is his prediction (http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/01/23/sheridan-who-will-play-for-team-usa-in-spain):

Bigs:
Anthony Davis, David Lee, Blake Griffin, LaMarcus Aldridge
Guards and Wings:
Kevin Durant, Andre Iguodala, Paul George, Steph Curry, Kyle Korver, Russell Westbrook, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving

I think Sheridan did a pretty good job, but he neglected to include Love who has already committed. I'll add Love and remove Lee. I also think Dwight Howard is actually thinking about playing this summer. If he does, I'd say to remove Griffin, but he may be a lock for popularity reasons. I also feel like Westbrook with his recent injury might want to sit it out. But, if he doesn't, I can't imagine them not also taking Harden, in which case I'd replace him with Korver. If all those guys played, I'd say to swap Iggy for the young equivalent, Kawhi! If they think they need more pure shooting, maybe Thompson for Lillard.

Billy Dat
01-23-2014, 08:07 PM
Here's how ESPN's Marc Stein sees it (http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/1281/breaking-down-team-usas-roster-for-spain)

Guards: Curry, Harden, Irving.

Forwards: Aldridge, Durant, George, Griffin, Love.

Centers: Davis, Howard.

Last Two Spots: Lillard and one of the following three: Iguodala, Korver or Thompson.

Troublemaker
01-23-2014, 08:17 PM
Here's how ESPN's Marc Stein sees it (http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/1281/breaking-down-team-usas-roster-for-spain)

Guards: Curry, Harden, Irving.

Forwards: Aldridge, Durant, George, Griffin, Love.

Centers: Davis, Howard.

Last Two Spots: Lillard and one of the following three: Iguodala, Korver or Thompson.

BillyDat - Looking forward to chatting with you and others this summer during the FIBA World Cup.

Super early starting 5 projection:

G - Kyrie
G - Westbrook
F - George
F - Durant
C - Davis

awhom111
01-24-2014, 12:28 AM
Here is the roster split out by Guards/Wings/Bigs:

Bigs -
LaMarcus Aldridge
Tyson Chandler
DeMarcus Cousins
Anthony Davis
Andre Drummond
Kenneth Faried
Blake Griffin
Dwight Howard
David Lee
Kevin Love

Wings -
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Kevin Durant
Paul George
Andre Iguodala
Kyle Korver
Kawhi Leonard

Guards -
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Kyrie Irving
Damian Lillard
Deron Williams
Klay Thompson
Bradley Beal
James Harden
Gordon Hayward

There are a few things to look out for with this roster. One big one is injuries. Chris Paul has missed the last 9 Clips games with a shoulder injury. But his knees will be what to watch for. Deron williams has also missed a big chunk of games this year. Who knows how Derrick Rose will be this summer (or again, ever). Kyrie Irving and Steph Curry both also seem to get banged up a lot. That's a lot of lead guards with injury histories. Dwyane Wade is no longer on the roster, as he seems to be keeping mileage off his knees.

The next issue I'd watch out for is attitude. Some guys are not pre-disposed to buy into the team concept. Demarcus Cousins will have to go the extra mile to prove he is. Guys like Igoudala and Chandler who dont have egos and dont need shots seem be the favorites of Colangelo and K.

For this summer, I'd love to see some of the more junior guys play. A backcourt of Irving, Curry, George, Lillard, Harden and Korver, along with a frontcourt of Aldridge, Davis, Drummond, Love, Griffin and Leonard would be pretty good. We can expect the bigger names to sit out this summer, similar to 2010, right?

Personally the key for me this summer is winning. For both Duke and USA Basketball's benefit, it would be best to win this title, take next summer off from competition, and then gear up for 2016. One untimely loss and our coach will be gone for probably a month in 2015 to the FIBA Americas Championship. Remember that Spain will likely be at full strength in an attempt to win in front of their home fans.

I saw one Colangelo quote suggesting that about half of this team could be carryovers from the Olympic team.

Assuming no healthy Westbrook, here would be my 2014 roster:
Williams
Curry
Irving
Harden
George
Korver
Durant
Griffin
Aldridge
Love
Howard
Davis

Here would then be my ideal 2016 roster given what we know today:
Paul
Westbrook
Curry
James
George
Harden
Anthony
Durant
Griffin
Love
Howard
Davis


Thanks for the link -- that explains a lot.

I knew Hibbert was born in New York City, but I guess that doesn't matter ... after all, Kyrie was born in Australia.

I wonder where Wiggins will eventually play international ball? He's listed as a Canadian and was born there, but I know his father was an American (his mother a Canadian track star)

Andrew Wiggins has already played at youth level for Canada, so he is pretty much locked in there. Just like FIBA is not giving Hibbert dispensation to switch, they are not going to let Wiggins play for the United States. As for teams with players born in other countries, Nigeria has trotted out multiple squads with 11 out of 12 players born in the United States.


Question: does Anthony Bennett even make the Canadian national team?

The Canada Basketball (http://www.basketball.ca/) website has made no similar announcement aboot a 2014 roster. They do have a section called "Canadians in the NBA," which offers this tidbit:



Oh, so THAT'S what happened. ("Inexistent"? It's a word (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inexistent).)

Bennett has played for Canada in the past, so I assume he would be given the chance to do so again. Canada does not even know if they'll be competing anywhere in 2014, so don't expect an announcement. It is not like there was a deadline or anything. USA Basketball just released a list. Personally I would have waited at least until after the upcoming draw to do so.

awhom111
02-01-2014, 12:23 AM
We are soon going to find out the identity of the four wild card teams to complete the field. All sorts of wild rumors have been make the circuit. Apparently you can scratch Italy, Germany, Russia, and China off the list of contenders.

The draw is set for Monday and will be on ESPN3 at 1:00pm Eastern. I will post another reminder before then as we should get the final list of teams and learn the procedural details.

awhom111
02-01-2014, 05:30 PM
Three of the four wild cards were pretty obvious as Brazil, Greece, and Turkey will go to Spain. The fourth was more surprising as Finland beat out a bunch of other European contenders as well as Nigeria, Canada, and Venezuela to grab the last spot. At least Qatar did not win.

Here is the full list of 24 teams:
United States
Spain
Australia
New Zealand
Iran
Philippines
South Korea
Angola
Egypt
Senegal
Puerto Rico
Mexico
Argentina
Dominican Republic
France
Lithuania
Croatia
Slovenia
Ukraine
Serbia
Brazil
Finland
Greece
Turkey

Any matchups that you want to see in the first round? Obviously the United States will be an overwhelming favorite in its group of six teams in the first round. Teams I would like to see include Mexico (since we rarely get to play), Puerto Rico, New Zealand (in the event they can do the Haka pregame), Australia (Kyrie vs his birth country?), Philippines (because of how much it means to their country), Greece (revenge), and Ukraine (K vs The Czar).

Henderson
02-01-2014, 06:39 PM
Three of the four wild cards were pretty obvious as Brazil, Greece, and Turkey will go to Spain. The fourth was more surprising as Finland beat out a bunch of other European contenders as well as Nigeria, Canada, and Venezuela to grab the last spot. At least Qatar did not win.

Here is the full list of 24 teams:
United States
Spain
Australia
New Zealand
Iran
Philippines
South Korea
Angola
Egypt
Senegal
Puerto Rico
Mexico
Argentina
Dominican Republic
France
Lithuania
Croatia
Slovenia
Ukraine
Serbia
Brazil
Finland
Greece
Turkey

Any matchups that you want to see in the first round? Obviously the United States will be an overwhelming favorite in its group of six teams in the first round. Teams I would like to see include Mexico (since we rarely get to play), Puerto Rico, New Zealand (in the event they can do the Haka pregame), Australia (Kyrie vs his birth country?), Philippines (because of how much it means to their country), Greece (revenge), and Ukraine (K vs The Czar).

I'd like to watch how the teams just happy to be there play against each other. Phillipines/Iran? Egypt/Angola? And I'd love to see everyone kick the holy crap out of Greece. For domestic reasons, I've spent a lot of time there, and their cultural superiority complex, in the face of incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, is insufferable.

awhom111
02-02-2014, 09:40 AM
FIBA has announced their draw procedure:
http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/presRele/p/newsid/71243/presReleArti.html

We will be in Group C and Spain will be in Group A so the teams cannot meet before the final set of games. Finland will be in either our group or Argentina's. Australia and New Zealand cannot be in the same group.

All of the group games will be in one venue to be announced. Figure that Group A will be either in Bilbao or Seville depending on political sensitivities. Ideally our group would be in Bilbao or Las Palmas (homecoming for Jon Scheyer if he's not too busy keeping things humming in Durham?). The only concern in the Canary Islands would be the weather. Barring complete disaster, our knockout stages will start in Barcelona alongside the other top four Group C and D teams. I actually thought it would be the opposite so that Spain could play in both Barcelona and Madrid, but the Group A and B teams will play all of their knockout games in Madrid.

My current dream draw is Finland, Philippines, Ukraine, Mexico, and Australia.

A reminder again that those of us in the United States can watch the draw on ESPN3 at 1:00pm Eastern tomorrow. Those outside of the United States can watch here if there is no other coverage in their country:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZe2uTRgAeA

Here is an image of the draw pots:
http://www.fiba.com/images/web/News/Photos/2014/02/02/_org/Teams_Pots_for_Official_Draw.jpg

Henderson
02-02-2014, 11:01 AM
We're in "Pot 1"? What exactly are they implying?

Oh, I see. British Columbia isn't fielding a team.

BD80
02-02-2014, 11:47 AM
We're in "Pot 1"? What exactly are they implying? ...

PJ volunteered to drive, if he can just borrow a car.

awhom111
02-02-2014, 12:49 PM
I think the image that I linked to is the unfixed one. Apparently FIBA had the wrong flag graphic for Spain originally, using the one from Franco-era Spain instead. Not like that's a big deal or anything (oops).


We're in "Pot 1"? What exactly are they implying?

Oh, I see. British Columbia isn't fielding a team.

Well tomorrow you'll see there are actual pots or at least glass bowls involved. Pot 1 is the top four teams. The other ones are semi-geographically/ranking arranged.

awhom111
02-03-2014, 11:47 PM
Here are the groups:
http://fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/14/wcm/news/p/nid/71269/orderby//press-release.html

Group A (Granada): Spain, Serbia, France, Brazil, Egypt, Iran
Group B (Seville): Philippines, Senegal, Puerto Rico, Argentina, Greece, Croatia
Group C (Bilbao): Dominican Republic, Turkey, United States, Finland, New Zealand, Ukraine
Group D (Las Palmas): Slovenia, Lithuania, Angola, South Korea, Mexico, Australia

Here is the schedule before tip times are decided:
http://fiba.com/downloads/fe/2014/FBWC/2014-FBWC-Draw-Results.pdf

We play Finland on the opening Saturday, Turkey on Sunday, New Zealand on Tuesday, the Dominican Republic on Wednesday, and Ukraine on Thursday.

Here is the coverage from USA Basketball including quotes from our coach:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national/14_mnt_draw.html

My quick thoughts include how easy our draw is. While any draw would have been considered easy for us to navigate, our draw has had the side effect of making other groups tougher and we may not have much of a challenge until late. On the flip side, I would have liked to play a more representative European side in our group to prepare us for the late stages. None of the teams really play that style although Turkey is the closest. Finland plays a very up tempo run and gun, New Zealand is more of a mix of styles, the Dominican Republic is more Americanized, and Ukraine has a lot of American influence with Mike Fratello coaching.

Some quick storylines in our group:
Finland: Will we see some Murphy brothers? They are some of many Finnish players who are sons of American former pros playing overseas. Hopefully the legend that is Hanno Mottola gets a final shot at a major tournament.
Turkey: Rematch of the last final
New Zealand: Can Nick Horvath (with a beard) make a final major summer appearance? Will we get to see them do the Haka in front of the NBA stars?
Dominican Republic: Lots of players with ties to this country. Will Al Horford make it?
Ukraine: Coach K vs the Czar. In the naturalized player category, how will Pooh Jeter do?

Here is a Turtle
02-04-2014, 01:01 AM
I'm really excited about the rematch of the FIBA Championship with Turkey if only because it was such a good game the last time. I watched the FIBA Americas championship with Puerto Rico vs Mexico and was entertained. I was really hoping to see Mexico in our group, but it was not meant to be. Spain has it rough though. That's a tough group, but they are the number 2 team in the world for a reason. They'll make it to the knockout round.

awhom111
04-09-2014, 02:50 PM
Our pre-tournament games are now determined:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national/14_mnt_schedule.html

Good news for those in Chicago and New York City and anyone on Gran Canaria.

We only play one European opponent in Slovenia, a possible semifinal matchup. I would have like to see us play more, since that style has given us trouble in the past, but it is good to get a few games in for the home fans.

awhom111
04-10-2014, 03:53 PM
More news today as game times were announced. Here are our preliminary games (all times Eastern Daylight):

8/30, Finland, 3:30pm
8/31, Turkey, 3:30pm
9/2, New Zealand, 11:30am
9/3, Dominican Republic, 3:30pm
9/4, Ukraine, 11:30am.

awhom111
05-08-2014, 04:01 PM
I was wondering what the odds were that Kyrie might be involved this summer. This tells me that he at least somewhere in the plans:
http://www.usab.com/mens/Jeep_USAB_2014_05_08.html

Looking at some of the videos, I guess he picked up a few things from Kyle Singler.

Henderson
05-09-2014, 04:55 PM
More news today as game times were announced. Here are our preliminary games (all times Eastern Daylight):

8/30, Finland, 3:30pm
8/31, Turkey, 3:30pm
9/2, New Zealand, 11:30am
9/3, Dominican Republic, 3:30pm
9/4, Ukraine, 11:30am.

Watch for Team Ukraine to be made up of Russian Special Forces dressed up in Ukrainian uniforms.

awhom111
05-09-2014, 11:51 PM
Watch for Team Ukraine to be made up of Russian Special Forces dressed up in Ukrainian uniforms.

They are coached by The Czar...

In all seriousness, Ukraine was set to host the Eurobasket tournament next summer, but that looks set to be moved. It will be interesting to see what Mike Fratello will be able to do. It would seem likely in a situation like this that there are players that have all sorts of different views on recent events. The domestic league has been in some turmoil with both foreign (including Jamal Boykin) and local players leaving, but it is still running. I would figure with Mike Fratello's connections, that he might be able to arrange training in the United States or somewhere that is free of distractions. Plenty of NBA owners are helping out other teams as much as possible like Thohir offering to help the Philippines. I suppose naturalized player Pooh Jeter will be the key figures for the team.

awhom111
07-08-2014, 09:08 PM
No Russell Westbrook this summer:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national/2014_MNT_Westbrook.html

Out of our original 28, that means that it looks like James, Anthony, Paul, and Westbrook are out this summer, which leaves us with a perfect number of 24 barring future changes:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national/14_mnt_roster.html

There are good reasons for Westbrook to do this for health, but it will be interesting to see if this ultimately hurts him in his chances to make the Olympic team. Paul will likely be there if healthy. Curry is likely going to start this summer and will thus have a big chance to impress, plus he is an ideal fifth guard in international settings. If Rose shows commitment this summer and then recovers his NBA form in the next two summers, he will put himself back in consideration. Then we have the newcomers.

Billy Dat
07-09-2014, 11:56 AM
Check this out, USA Basketball is doing a K Academy style fantasy camp during the Senior National Team training camp

http://www.usab.com/mens/national/14_mnt_fantasy_camp_coaches_announced.html

There is an impressive roster of coaches:

"USA Basketball announced today the complete coaching staff for its second annual USA Basketball Fantasy Camp. The three-day event offers basketball fans the experience of being a part of the National Team in Las Vegas from July 29-August 1. The elite coaching staff includes Arizona’s Sean Miller, Georgetown’s John Thompson III, Gonzaga’s Mark Few, Grand Canyon’s Dan Majerle, Kentucky’s John Calipari, Villanova’s Jay Wright, Washington’s Lorenzo Romar and camp director P.J. Carlesimo. ESPN analyst Jay Bilas and CBS Sports Analyst Bill Raftery will be the week’s host."

Cal wants to be the next National Team coach. He got the FIBA experience with the Dominican Republic, now his kissing the Colangelo ring by participating in this camp. I still think Donovan has a leg up on him based on earned USA Basketball "equity", but Cal's coming on strong.

awhom111
07-14-2014, 08:51 AM
The training camp roster is set to be announced this morning at 11:00am Eastern with some information already leaking out.

Ichabod Drain
07-14-2014, 09:44 AM
19 total players attending training camp:

PG's: Curry, Irving, Lillard, Rose
Wings: Durant, Bradley Beal, Paul George, Harden, Gordon Hayward, Kyle Korver, Klay Thompson, Chandler Parsons, Derozan
Bigs: Griffin, Love, Anthony Davis, Cousins, Drummond, and Faried

Billy Dat
07-14-2014, 12:40 PM
19 total players attending training camp:

PG's: Curry, Irving, Lillard, Rose
Wings: Durant, Bradley Beal, Paul George, Harden, Gordon Hayward, Kyle Korver, Klay Thompson, Chandler Parsons, Derozan
Bigs: Griffin, Love, Anthony Davis, Cousins, Drummond, and Faried

With the soccer World Cup completed, and the Lax World Cup running this week, it'll soon be time to focus on FIBA.

One thing that's strange is the exclusion of John Wall, especially considering that they just added Demare Derozan and Chandler Parsons. Woj from Yahoo also tweeted that there is word that Wall could still be added. Why not just add him now? I wonder if he's pissed that he wasn't on the January list and isn't committing? Is he that clearly behind Kyrie and Lillard, let alone an injury depleted Rose?

With Durant leading them, and Love there too, this team should be loaded at all positions. This is probably the last chance this Spain generation (Pau, Navarro, Fernandez) will have to beat us. It will be a real challenge.

Troublemaker
07-14-2014, 07:49 PM
19 total players attending training camp:

PG's: Curry, Irving, Lillard, Rose
Wings: Durant, Bradley Beal, Paul George, Harden, Gordon Hayward, Kyle Korver, Klay Thompson, Chandler Parsons, Derozan
Bigs: Griffin, Love, Anthony Davis, Cousins, Drummond, and Faried

My initial stab at the roster cuts and rotation.

Cuts: Lillard, DeRozan, Korver, Parsons, Hayward, Faried, Cousins

Rotation:



25 Irving
15 Rose



30 Curry
10 Thompson
Beal


30 George
(10 Durant)
Harden


25 Durant
20 Love



30 Davis
5 Griffin
Drummond



So, I'm looking at a 9-man rotation with Durant playing some SF but mostly at PF, where he was unguardable in the 2010 World Championships.

Other comments:
* Anthony Davis will play 30 mpg as the defensive anchor in the middle
* I'm counting on Curry to be the #2 scorer on the team behind Durant. He gets 30 mpg as well.
* Paul George is by far the best perimeter defender on this team (the relative weakness of the team). So he gets 30 mpg to concentrate on shutting down the opposing team's best perimeter player.
* I wish I could find more than 20 mpg for Love (not to mention more than 5 mpg for Griffin!). But going back to 2006, Coach K has always used only 1 true big for Team USA in the predominant lineup. And that big has to be Anthony Davis.
* Drummond and Beal are too young and will learn off the bench. Harden will surprisingly be out of the rotation because of his defense. In essence, I chose Curry over him because I think Curry is a more efficient scorer. And I prefer Klay Thompson to back up his teammate because Thompson can play some defense.
* Kyrie and Rose will just need to concentrate on distributing.

gurufrisbee
07-14-2014, 10:10 PM
I'm not seeing leaving Wall out that terrible or surprising. He improved this last year but that was like the first time since high school and his defense and shooting still aren't up to snuff compared to the other point guard options out there.

I'm really surprised (and bummed) Aldridge turned down the invitation. His game is so well suited for the international competition and he was great in the playoffs.

I don't think Rose makes it. I think he is there mostly to see what his health and mind is up for and to keep his name and involvement still going for down the road possibly.

My guess for the roster is:

Curry, Irving, Lillard, Durant, George, Love, Harden, Griffin, Davis, Drummond, Thompson, Parsons.

Usual starting five is Curry, Irving, Durant, Love, Griffin with most of the bench time going to Lillard, George, Harden, and Davis.

Just one guess.

awhom111
07-14-2014, 11:36 PM
I have done a little work on WatchESPN to figure out where some events will be televised by ESPN (these may not all be finalized at this point):
The intrasquad scrimmage in Las Vegas will be on ESPN at 9:00pm EDT on August 1st.
The exhibition against Brazil in Chicago will be on ESPN at 9:00pm EDT on August 16th.
The exhibition against the Dominican Republic in New York on August 20th is not currently listed.
The exhibition against Puerto Rico in New York will be on ESPN2 at 7:00pm EDT on August 22nd.
The exhibition against Slovenia in Spain on the island of Gran Canaria will on ESPN2 at 2:00pm EDT on August 26th.

The first two days of non-USA team action appear to be on ESPN3 on August 30th and 31st. Presumably a number of other games will be added soon.
USA Preliminary Round games (All in Bilbao, times EDT):
vs Finland 3:30pm August 30th ESPN/Deportes
vs Turkey 3:30pm August 31st ESPN/Deportes
vs New Zealand 11:30am September 2nd ESPN2
vs Dominican Republic 3:30pm September 3rd ESPN2
vs Ukraine 11:30am September 4th ESPN2

Newton_14
07-15-2014, 12:15 AM
I'm not seeing leaving Wall out that terrible or surprising. He improved this last year but that was like the first time since high school and his defense and shooting still aren't up to snuff compared to the other point guard options out there.

I'm really surprised (and bummed) Aldridge turned down the invitation. His game is so well suited for the international competition and he was great in the playoffs.

I don't think Rose makes it. I think he is there mostly to see what his health and mind is up for and to keep his name and involvement still going for down the road possibly.

My guess for the roster is:

Curry, Irving, Lillard, Durant, George, Love, Harden, Griffin, Davis, Drummond, Thompson, Parsons.

Usual starting five is Curry, Irving, Durant, Love, Griffin with most of the bench time going to Lillard, George, Harden, and Davis.

Just one guess.
I mostly agree with you but with one glaring exception. There is just no way Anthony Davis isn't manning the middle at the tip, the bulk of the minutes, and definitely in crunch time with the game on the line. I love Griffin, and K Love too, but neither can protect the paint the way Davis can. If KD plays a lot of Power Forward, Griffin will struggle to get minutes. Love is a maniac rebounder who can nail 3's like a guard. In International ball that will put him in front of Griffin in the pecking order.

Reasonable minds can politely disagree, but that's just how I see it playing out with this group of players.

Troublemaker
07-15-2014, 07:06 AM
I'm intrigued by the possibility of Coach K, for the first time, playing two bigs together predominantly on Team USA. A three-man big rotation of Davis, Love, and Griffin is talented enough to do so. All three are top-15 NBA players, imo, and maybe all three are top-10 NBA players.

What would a more traditional two-big rotation look like potentially?

Cuts: Lillard, DeRozan, Korver, Parsons, Hayward, Faried, Cousins

Rotation:



25 Curry
15 Irving
Rose


30 George
10 Beal



30 Durant
10 Thompson
Harden


25 Love
25 Griffin



30 Davis

Drummond



Comments:
* I still want Paul George as my defensive specialist on the perimeter so he slides down to the 2 and hopefully locks down the likes of Ginobili, Calderon / Navarro, etc
* Still gotta have my Curry for at least 25 mpg. Looking forward to seeing him light up various venues in Spain with his 3-pt bombing.
* Still no place for Harden. Don't want him backing up Durant. Prefer 3-and-D guy Thompson. Don't want Harden backing up George. Beal can play some defense and can be a 3-an-D guy. And Curry and Irving are both better point guards than Harden.
* I think I like this two-big rotation better than the 1-big rotation I posted before. We'll see what Coach K does. As always, a lot of talent and a lot of options available.

Troublemaker
07-15-2014, 07:36 AM
Let's streamline the rotation a little bit more. No need to give youngster Beal any time when Klay Thompson is good enough to backup both wing spots.

Rotation:



25 Curry
15 Irving
Rose


30 George

Beal


30 Durant
20 Thompson
Harden


25 Love
25 Griffin



30 Davis

Drummond



So we have a stream-lined 8-man rotation, with all the players given very specific and necessary roles.

Durant: Dominate. Be USA's leading scorer and the best player in the tournament.
Love: Hit your threes and dominate the boards. Set screens for Durant and Curry.
Davis: Protect the rim with your length and shot-blocking. Dominate the boards with Love. Set screens for Durant and Curry.
George: Shut down the opposing team's best perimeter player.
Curry: Distribute. When off-the-ball, run the opposing PG thru screens. Pop your quick-release threes when given a sliver of daylight.
Irving: Distribute and push the ball on the break. Get crowd-awakening dunks from guys like Griffin. Bring energy off the bench.
Thompson: Hit your threes and D up when you're in the game for Durant or George.
Griffin: Play physical and score in the paint in relief of Davis and Love. Get out on the break for high-energy dunks.

I suspect only Spain, France, and Brazil can give this team a game.

Billy Dat
07-15-2014, 08:20 AM
Here's a nice reaction piece to the 19 man pool announcement by ESPN's Marc Stein
http://espn.go.com/blog/marc-stein/post/_/id/2669/whos-missing-from-team-usas-roster

What I didn't pick up initially, besides Wall's absence, was the absence of Aldridge and Kawhi. I am really bummed about Kawhi as I really like watching him play.

kAzE
07-15-2014, 02:56 PM
I absolutely agree with leaving Wall off of the roster. His game is not suited for FIBA rules, where the most important attributes are ball movement and spacing. Wall is very much an isolation player in the halfcourt, and gets his assists off of his own penetration rather than quick and decisive passes within the flow of the offense. The offense of this team is much better off with point guards who are knockdown shooters and creative ball handlers like Steph and Kyrie. Wall is a guy who excels because of his elite speed and athleticism, which aren't as big of an advantage in international basketball, where passing to get open shots is preferable to guys going 1 on 1. Plus, Wall spurned Coach K to go UK. Screw him :p

If I was going to pick a 12 man roster from this pool, I'd go with:

Guards: Curry, Irving, Lillard (Just too many question marks with Rose)
Wings: Durant, George, Harden, Thompson, Parsons
Bigs: Davis, Love, Griffin, Faried

I'm staying away from some of a younger guys like Beal and Drummond just due to lack of experience. Also, I think Faried is more suited to the international game than a big, lumbering guy like Drummond. Faried is one of those guys who is just an energizer bunny on both ends of the floor, can run up and down all day, and grabs an insane number of rebounds. He's perfect for this style of play. However, I can see them taking Drummond anyway, just to prepare him for the Olympics in 2016.

Imagine if we threw out a lineup of Curry, Irving, Thompson, Durant, and Love. Who are you supposed to help off of if you're the other team? All those guys can knock down international 3s in their sleep . . .

CDu
07-15-2014, 03:07 PM
I absolutely agree with leaving Wall off of the roster. His game is not suited for FIBA rules, where the most important attributes are ball movement and spacing. Wall is very much an isolation player in the halfcourt, and gets his assists off of his own penetration rather than quick and decisive passes within the flow of the offense. The offense of this team is much better off with point guards who are knockdown shooters and creative ball handlers like Steph and Kyrie. Wall is a guy who excels because of his elite speed and athleticism, which aren't as big of an advantage in international basketball, where passing to get open shots is preferable to guys going 1 on 1. Plus, Wall spurned Coach K to go UK. Screw him :p

If I was going to pick a 12 man roster from this pool, I'd go with:

Guards: Curry, Irving, Lillard (Just too many question marks with Rose)
Wings: Durant, George, Harden, Thompson, Parsons
Bigs: Davis, Love, Griffin, Faried

I'm staying away from some of a younger guys like Beal and Drummond just due to lack of experience. Also, I think Faried is more suited to the international game than a big, lumbering guy like Drummond. Faried is one of those guys who is just an energizer bunny on both ends of the floor and grabs an insane number of rebounds. He's perfect for this style of play.

Imagine if we threw out a lineup of Curry, Irving, George, Durant, and Love. Who are you supposed to help off of if you're the other team? All those guys can knock down international 3s in their sleep . . .

I agree with the rest, but I don't think the bolded part is relevant. The coaching staff is going to get a few weeks' worth of practice/scrimmages to see what these guys can do. By that point, there shouldn't be any question marks with Rose: either he's physically ready or he's not. And don't forget: his coach (Thibs) is a part of the coaching staff. Thibs has seen Rose's progress as much as anyone, so I really doubt the coaching staff will have questions about Rose's health.

Given that he's now had about 8 months to recover from the MCL repair, and given that the typical recovery time for an athlete undergoing MCL repair is more on the order of 4-6 months, I'd say that the concerns about Rose's health will be quickly dismissed. The question then is one of rust. But regardless, I don't think Rose will get left off because of question-marks about his health. If he's healthy, I'd be shocked to see him off the team.

kAzE
07-15-2014, 03:17 PM
I agree with the rest, but I don't think the bolded part is relevant. The coaching staff is going to get a few weeks' worth of practice/scrimmages to see what these guys can do. By that point, there shouldn't be any question marks with Rose: either he's physically ready or he's not. And don't forget: his coach (Thibs) is a part of the coaching staff. Thibs has seen Rose's progress as much as anyone, so I really doubt the coaching staff will have questions about Rose's health.

Given that he's now had about 8 months to recover from the MCL repair, and given that the typical recovery time for an athlete undergoing MCL repair is more on the order of 4-6 months, I'd say that the concerns about Rose's health will be quickly dismissed. The question then is one of rust. But regardless, I don't think Rose will get left off because of question-marks about his health. If he's healthy, I'd be shocked to see him off the team.

All true, but I am pretty concerned about the rust factor. Rose did NOT look good in his 10 regular season games last year. In fact, he looked awful. And again, he's not on the same level of shooting ability as those other 3 point guards, who are all excellent from deep. But then again, I haven't seen Rose play at all in almost a year, so that's why I qualified that 12 man roster as the 12 guys I would personally choose, with my current amount of knowledge about these players. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Rose make the final cut, since he brings a different dynamic than Lillard, who is more or less the same type of player as Kyrie.

CDu
07-15-2014, 03:27 PM
All true, but I am pretty concerned about the rust factor. Rose did NOT look good in his 10 regular season games last year. In fact, he looked awful. And again, he's not on the same level of shooting ability as those other 3 point guards, who are all excellent from deep. But then again, I haven't seen Rose play at all in almost a year, so that's why I qualified that 12 man roster as the 12 guys I would personally choose, with my current amount of knowledge about these players. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Rose make the final cut, since he brings a different dynamic than Lillard, who is more or less the same type of player as Kyrie.

Definitely true that Rose isn't the shooter that the other three are. But he's a far better defender. Curry and (sadly) Irving are notoriously soft defenders, and Lillard isn't known for being a good defender. Rose is strong and tenacious on that end of the floor. And he plays for a team whose defensive principles are a big part of what the National Team does, so he's very aware of the fundamentals needed for the job.

Also, don't underestimate the experience factor. Rose has played (started) at PG for the national team at a World Championships. Neither Irving nor Lillard have any experience at that level in international competition. Curry was also on the team in 2010, but he was a SG on that squad. Coach K loves continuity, so I'd be surprised if he went with 3 newbies at PG for this tournament.

Billy Dat
07-16-2014, 01:43 PM
Nice little interview with K on the USA Basketball site
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/coach-k-takes-on-the-world.aspx

It is amazing how far he's come from the 2006 "we seek to dominate" talk. I guess a semi-final loss to Greece can humble a man's expectations. That one game aside, dominate is pretty much what has happened, but the Olympic Gold Medal games have all been epic.

I am actually pretty bummed out that we're not in the "group of death". I'd like to see us play all the best teams in pool play.

awhom111
07-16-2014, 11:37 PM
Nice little interview with K on the USA Basketball site
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/coach-k-takes-on-the-world.aspx

It is amazing how far he's come from the 2006 "we seek to dominate" talk. I guess a semi-final loss to Greece can humble a man's expectations. That one game aside, dominate is pretty much what has happened, but the Olympic Gold Medal games have all been epic.

I am actually pretty bummed out that we're not in the "group of death". I'd like to see us play all the best teams in pool play.

That is something I mentioned after the draw and re-iterated after our exhibition schedule. Given the negative consequences of losing a game in the knockout round, it is preferable to be tested in the group round and have easier games later in the tournament. Given that certain European styles have given us trouble in the past, we have minimal preparation for that before the games count. Our last exhibition against Slovenia will be helpful in seeing where we are against the European teams. Our first exhibition against Brazil will also be interesting after the result against them in 2010. Slovenia is also a probable knockout round opponent, possibly in the quarterfinals with perimeter defense the key to containing the brothers Dragic. The most likely semifinal opponent is Lithuania, a team that always seems to give us a good game. A final would either be Spain on their home floor or some team that has done enough in the tournament to make it past Spain. I trust our guys, but the margins are thin.

Billy Dat
07-18-2014, 02:15 PM
News of a Select Team for training in Las Vegas via Woj:

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 32m
Among USA Basketball Select Team invitees to Las Vegas, sources tell Yahoo. Marcus Smart, Doug McDermott, Victor Oladipo, Tobias Harris.

Sources: More invitees to USA Basketball training camp to work against national team: Brooklyn's Mason Plumlee and Phoenix's Miles Plumlee.

If true, and Woj usually has his facts straight, this is a great feather in the cap for MP1 and MP2.

CDu
07-18-2014, 02:22 PM
News of a Select Team for training in Las Vegas via Woj:

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 32m
Among USA Basketball Select Team invitees to Las Vegas, sources tell Yahoo. Marcus Smart, Doug McDermott, Victor Oladipo, Tobias Harris.

Sources: More invitees to USA Basketball training camp to work against national team: Brooklyn's Mason Plumlee and Phoenix's Miles Plumlee.

If true, and Woj usually has his facts straight, this is a great feather in the cap for MP1 and MP2.

Certainly helps to know the boss.

-jk
07-18-2014, 02:45 PM
Certainly helps to know the boss.

And the boss's program!

-jk

huey
07-18-2014, 07:26 PM
http://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2b2hjg/adrian_wojnarowski_sources_more_invitees_to_usa/

Love some of the comments. Mods feel free to move to Team USA thread, I can't seem to find it

Billy Dat
07-22-2014, 11:42 AM
Full Select Team Announced:


Trey Burke (Utah Jazz)
Jimmy Butler (Chicago Bulls)
Draymond Green (Golden State Warriors)
Tim Hardaway Jr. (New York Knicks)
Tobias Harris (Orlando Magic)
Doug McDermott (Chicago Bulls)
Victor Oladipo (Orlando Magic)
Mason Plumlee (Brooklyn Nets)
Miles Plumlee (Phoenix Suns)
Marcus Smart (Boston Celtics)
Dion Waiters (Cleveland Cavaliers)
Cody Zeller (Charlotte Hornets)
The Pidg (Golden State Warriors)

awhom111
07-22-2014, 03:20 PM
Full Select Team Announced:


Trey Burke (Utah Jazz)
Jimmy Butler (Chicago Bulls)
Draymond Green (Golden State Warriors)
Tim Hardaway Jr. (New York Knicks)
Tobias Harris (Orlando Magic)
Doug McDermott (Chicago Bulls)
Victor Oladipo (Orlando Magic)
Mason Plumlee (Brooklyn Nets)
Miles Plumlee (Phoenix Suns)
Marcus Smart (Boston Celtics)
Dion Waiters (Cleveland Cavaliers)
Cody Zeller (Charlotte Hornets)
The Pidg (Golden State Warriors)

Here is the article and the roster with measurements:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/usa-basketball-names-13-top-young-nba-players-to-2014-usa-mens-select-team.aspx
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/2014-usa-basketball-select-team-roster.aspx

JasonEvans
07-22-2014, 03:53 PM
Full Select Team Announced:


Trey Burke (Utah Jazz)
Jimmy Butler (Chicago Bulls)
Draymond Green (Golden State Warriors)
Tim Hardaway Jr. (New York Knicks)
Tobias Harris (Orlando Magic)
Doug McDermott (Chicago Bulls)
Victor Oladipo (Orlando Magic)
Mason Plumlee (Brooklyn Nets)
Miles Plumlee (Phoenix Suns)
Marcus Smart (Boston Celtics)
Dion Waiters (Cleveland Cavaliers)
Cody Zeller (Charlotte Hornets)
The Pidg (Golden State Warriors)

Interesting list. Is there some kind of age requirement for this? I can't figure how Marcus Smart and Dougie McBuckets (NBA rookies) would make it but Jabari would not. Wiggins is going to play for Team Canada, I suppose. Michael Carter-Williams isn't on this team either, though that is because he is recovering from knee surgery.

I sorta wonder if any of these guys will ever make the Olympic team -- maybe a couple of them develop nicely and end up being on an off-year senior team that plays in the Basketball World Cup, but this does not feel like a future Olympic team roster. I could be wrong...

-Jason "the best NBA youngster, Lillard, is going for the senior team, not messing around with the select team" Evans

-Jason "agreed that it is a nice feather for the MP Bros to be here

CDu
07-22-2014, 04:12 PM
Interesting list. Is there some kind of age requirement for this? I can't figure how Marcus Smart and Dougie McBuckets (NBA rookies) would make it but Jabari would not. Wiggins is going to play for Team Canada, I suppose. Michael Carter-Williams isn't on this team either, though that is because he is recovering from knee surgery.

I sorta wonder if any of these guys will ever make the Olympic team -- maybe a couple of them develop nicely and end up being on an off-year senior team that plays in the Basketball World Cup, but this does not feel like a future Olympic team roster. I could be wrong...

-Jason "the best NBA youngster, Lillard, is going for the senior team, not messing around with the select team" Evans

-Jason "agreed that it is a nice feather for the MP Bros to be here

McDermott is there because he has a specific skill (elite shooting) that translates nicely to the FIBA game. He is a far superior shooter to Parker. Also, he and Smart were on the Select team last summer. That continuity is valued highly by Team USA. Parker's hurdle may just be that, for what he does, there are more established options.

And remember, it is not a complete meritocracy. The Plumlees, for example, aren't really the best young bigs available. But they are good young bigs who are VERY familiar with Coach K's approach and fit what Coach K wants.

awhom111
07-22-2014, 11:54 PM
Interesting list. Is there some kind of age requirement for this? I can't figure how Marcus Smart and Dougie McBuckets (NBA rookies) would make it but Jabari would not. Wiggins is going to play for Team Canada, I suppose. Michael Carter-Williams isn't on this team either, though that is because he is recovering from knee surgery.

I sorta wonder if any of these guys will ever make the Olympic team -- maybe a couple of them develop nicely and end up being on an off-year senior team that plays in the Basketball World Cup, but this does not feel like a future Olympic team roster. I could be wrong...

-Jason "the best NBA youngster, Lillard, is going for the senior team, not messing around with the select team" Evans

-Jason "agreed that it is a nice feather for the MP Bros to be here

It is some combination of rewarding players who have contributed to USA Basketball in the past (which is why Lance Thomas was on one once), players who would be good to practice against, and a way of telling a few players that they might be in the plans for the future.

I do like all they complaining when Duke players make it. We have already managed to get 5 players from our last championship team on one of these. The hand-wringing that would ensue when Zoubek, Scheyer, Jordan Davidson, Johnson, and Peters get put on one to be joined by Kelly and Dawkins would be great. Once we sneak Zafirovski on despite the fact that he has already suited up for Macedonia, the internet may implode. Sheesh, there were a lot of walk-ons on that team.

Billy Dat
07-23-2014, 01:47 PM
RE: Quality of the Select Team

I think a couple of things happened to reduce the quality of the Select Team.

-In January, USA Basketball originally announced 28 players in contention for the World Cup and Olympic team. Of that 28, 11 are not participating in the World Cup including Lamarcus Aldridge, Iggy, Lebron, David Lee, Kawhi, CP3, Westbrook, DWill, Carmelo, Dwight Howard and Tyson Chandler. That knocked the pool down to 17.

-To increase the pool under consideration for the World Cup, guys who would have probably been Select Team guys have been pulled up to the main pool including Chandler Parsons, Demar Derozen,

To Jason's original point about guys on the Select Team likely to make a future Olympic team, there is a notable absence of that next tier of guys who are sniffing All Star and All NBA status such as Al Jefferson, John Wall, Kyle Lowry, DeAndre Jordan, Mike Conley, ZBo, Joe Johnson, Lance Stephenson, Ty Lawson, Paul Milsap, Monta Ellis, et al. Many of these guys used to be in the overall pool as part of the Select Team. Perhaps they either said no, or, once a guy reaches a certain veteran status they aren't asked out of respect. Joe Johnson was on a World Cup team (2006), etc. Maybe they decided, too late, that they needed a Select Team and this was the best they could throw together.

They usually convene a week long training camp in off years - next summer for example - and it will be interesting to see which new blood gets a shot at participating.

awhom111
07-24-2014, 11:30 PM
News is now breaking that Blake Griffin is out and John Wall is in for training camp.

Griffin is pretty much easy to replace for this roster, but this would have been a good chance for him to show what he could do in the international game. With the prevalance of the stretch four, this may make it hard for Blake to break into the picture in the future unless he and Chris Paul master telepathy and telekinesis in the next two seasons.

The Wall saga has been confusing the entire time. I wonder if there is any chance of four point guards on the final roster even though that seems like overkill.

Reilly
07-25-2014, 05:49 AM
usatoday article on griffin and wall ...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/07/24/blake-griffin-jerry-colangelo-team-usa-olympics/13138109/

Billy Dat
07-25-2014, 09:07 AM
usatoday article on griffin and wall ...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/07/24/blake-griffin-jerry-colangelo-team-usa-olympics/13138109/

Thanks for that link. Colangelo certainly demonstrated some contempt for Griffin and Aldridge. Now that the "new" Team USA program is 10 years old, there are bound to be guys who just don't think its worth it.

I think the writer's reporting was a little incomplete as he didn't mention Boogie or Drummond as big with a chance to step up in the absence of Griffin and Aldridge. This could be a really big opportunity for Cousins, I hope he makes the most of it.

JasonEvans
07-26-2014, 10:05 AM
Kevin Love has pulled out of the team due to the uncertainty over his trade situation. with Lamarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin also missing, it leaves Team USA very thin on big men. There is rampant speculation that K could pull Mason or Miles up from the Select team to play on Team USA for the World Cup.

-Jason "cool opportunity for the MP Bros" Evans

kAzE
07-26-2014, 10:23 AM
Kevin Love has pulled out of the team due to the uncertainty over his trade situation. with Lamarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin also missing, it leaves Team USA very thin on big men. There is rampant speculation that K could pull Mason or Miles up from the Select team to play on Team USA for the World Cup.

-Jason "cool opportunity for the MP Bros" Evans

Crap, losing Love is a huge hit. But even still, there are 4 quality bigs left in Davis, Drummond, Faried, and Cousins. Also , KD and Parsons can play some power forward if we want go with a more mobile lineup. I don't see a huge need to call up a Plumlee unless another big pulls out. It would certainly be awesome to see a Kyrie/Mason reunion on the national team though. We were robbed of a ton of alley oops back in 2011.

Duvall
07-26-2014, 10:26 AM
I blame Dan Gilbert.

CDu
07-26-2014, 10:28 AM
Kevin Love has pulled out of the team due to the uncertainty over his trade situation. with Lamarcus Aldridge and Blake Griffin also missing, it leaves Team USA very thin on big men. There is rampant speculation that K could pull Mason or Miles up from the Select team to play on Team USA for the World Cup.

-Jason "cool opportunity for the MP Bros" Evans

This seems unlikely. There are still four guys on the 19-man roster that are better options than either Plumlee: Davis, Cousins, Drummond, Faried. I suspect at least three of those guys will make it now. Perhaps all four.

Remember: the Plumlees are, from a talent/performance standpoint, even questionable to be on the Select team. To suddenly bump them up the the main roster despite them not having come remotely close to earning such an honor would be a huge slap in the face to a couple of the guys who HAVE earned the opportunity.

JasonEvans
07-26-2014, 10:43 AM
There are 4 quality bigs left in Davis, Drummond, Faried, and Cousins. Also , KD and Parsons can play some power forward if we want go with a more mobile lineup.

It really depends on how much they want to play KD or Parsons at the 4. There is no way you would dare to go into a tournament with only 4 PF/C players. You must have 5 guys in case of foul trouble or especially injury. I suspect they will decided that KD or Parsons can fill in at the 4 if necessary -- heck, our best lineup may be KD at the 4, allowing us to put more of our phenomenally quick, athletic wings on the floor -- but if K wants to keep KD and Parsons at their more natural position, then he will likely have to look to a Plumlee.

-Jason "are Miles and (to a lesser extent) Mason really that far behind Faried?" Evans

kAzE
07-26-2014, 11:05 AM
It really depends on how much they want to play KD or Parsons at the 4. There is no way you would dare to go into a tournament with only 4 PF/C players. You must have 5 guys in case of foul trouble or especially injury. I suspect they will decided that KD or Parsons can fill in at the 4 if necessary -- heck, our best lineup may be KD at the 4, allowing us to put more of our phenomenally quick, athletic wings on the floor -- but if K wants to keep KD and Parsons at their more natural position, then he will likely have to look to a Plumlee.

-Jason "are Miles and (to a lesser extent) Mason really that far behind Faried?" Evans

I agree, I think Mason isn't very far behind at all, and I strongly believe he will surpass Faried shortly. But Faried does bring one thing that Mason doesn't quite have: amazing quickness and an unbelievable motor. He's an offensive rebounding machine, whereas Mason is much more of a defensive rebounder. They both have their strengths. Mason obviously has a big size advantage, they are both athletic and can run the floor with the best of them, but Faried is much faster to the ball and has the quickness of a wing in the body of a big (at least in international play). I completely agree, though, there isn't a ton of separation.

CDu
07-26-2014, 11:12 AM
It really depends on how much they want to play KD or Parsons at the 4. There is no way you would dare to go into a tournament with only 4 PF/C players. You must have 5 guys in case of foul trouble or especially injury. I suspect they will decided that KD or Parsons can fill in at the 4 if necessary -- heck, our best lineup may be KD at the 4, allowing us to put more of our phenomenally quick, athletic wings on the floor -- but if K wants to keep KD and Parsons at their more natural position, then he will likely have to look to a Plumlee.

-Jason "are Miles and (to a lesser extent) Mason really that far behind Faried?" Evans

Actually, we have been known to go with just 3 bigs in these tournaments. And even then at least one of those guys rarely played (we often went with a SF at PF). So going in with 4 bigs would actually be an increase in depth at that position.

And I would say that, in terms of ability to defend international-style PF (which is where we now aren't deep), Faried is FAR superior to the Plumlees.

awhom111
07-26-2014, 12:02 PM
This one is pretty big news considering Love was one of the first players to commit to this team.

I am not sure about the final couple spots, but here is what I have now:
PG: Curry, Irving
SG: Harden, Thompson
SF: George, Korver
PF: Durant, Parsons
C: Davis, Drummond
5th Guard: Lillard
7th Forward: Cousins

Now Fran Fraschilla continues to sound the alarm on Twitter.

CDu
07-27-2014, 10:55 AM
Here's what I think happens with our frontcourt for the tournament. Anthony Davis is a clear addition obviously. After that, I think two of Cousins/Drummond/Faried make it as well. I don't think all four of those guys make it.

But in reality, I don't think it will make much difference. Davis is going to start and play as much as possible. One of Cousins or Drummond will back him up. And from there, I'd expect a fair amount of time with George/Durant/Parsons at PF. We've tended to err on the side of athleticism instead of size in the past, going with a SF at PF and creating havoc with our quickness/explosiveness. And since most teams will go zone against us, having another shooter on the floor at PF just makes life that much easier.

We've only carried three big men on the roster in past years, preferring to go with more athletic shooters rather than big men. Maybe this year (because we don't have stout SF like Anthony and James) we'll go with a fourth big. But I very much doubt we'll go with a fifth, especially with guys like DeRozan, George, Parsons, Hayward, Durant, McDermott, and Tobias Harris, all of whom can defend the PF spot in the international game and (to some degree) spread the floor with perimeter shooting.

kAzE
07-27-2014, 01:55 PM
Here's what I think happens with our frontcourt for the tournament. Anthony Davis is a clear addition obviously. After that, I think two of Cousins/Drummond/Faried make it as well. I don't think all four of those guys make it.

But in reality, I don't think it will make much difference. Davis is going to start and play as much as possible. One of Cousins or Drummond will back him up. And from there, I'd expect a fair amount of time with George/Durant/Parsons at PF. We've tended to err on the side of athleticism instead of size in the past, going with a SF at PF and creating havoc with our quickness/explosiveness. And since most teams will go zone against us, having another shooter on the floor at PF just makes life that much easier.

We've only carried three big men on the roster in past years, preferring to go with more athletic shooters rather than big men. Maybe this year (because we don't have stout SF like Anthony and James) we'll go with a fourth big. But I very much doubt we'll go with a fifth, especially with guys like DeRozan, George, Parsons, Hayward, Durant, McDermott, and Tobias Harris, all of whom can defend the PF spot in the international game and (to some degree) spread the floor with perimeter shooting.

I could realistically see McDermott making the squad. His size and shooting ability would be a tremendous asset, and he's the ideal PF (now that Love is no longer an option) to the keep the floor spread for our dynamic guards and wings to get in to the teeth of defenses. The shorter 3 point line is basically a layup for Doug. His lack of strong defensive skills would keep him at the bottom of the rotation, but he'd be a hell of a 12th man. His game is perfect for FIBA rules.

SilkyJ
07-27-2014, 08:00 PM
There is rampant speculation that K could pull Mason or Miles up from the Select team to play on Team USA for the World Cup.

-Jason "cool opportunity for the MP Bros" Evans

Rampant speculation by whom? I've heard no such speculation. I just did a google search that turned up no rumors there either, though it was a quick search.


There is no way you would dare to go into a tournament with only 4 PF/C players. You must have 5 guys in case of foul trouble or especially injury.


Actually, we have been known to go with just 3 bigs in these tournaments.

Sorry, Jason, but CDu is right and I'm not sure why you're so making your statement so strongly. You're way off. We've actually extremely consistent with the following mix of players

3 Pure Posts/Bigs
3 PGs
6 Wings (ranging from SGs like Dwayne Wade to large SFs that can stretch to the 4 like KD/Lebron/Melo)

2008 Redeem team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team ) had Dwight Howard, Bosh and Boozer as the bigs
2010 FIBA team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIBA_World_Championship_squads#.C2.A0United_S tates) had Chandler, Odom, and Love as the bigs (Oddly, Odom was the starting Center)
2012 Olympic team (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_United_States_men%27s_Olympic_basketball_team ) had Chandler, Love and Anthony Davis (and A-Davis was really like the "Laettner" of that team a-la '92)

K has been remarkably consistent with his formula.

08 team had 3 PGs: D-Will, CP3, and JKidd, rest were wings
10 team had 3 PGs: Westbrook, Rose, Billups rest were wings (Steph Curry was on that squad but a shooting specialist, didn't play point)
12 team had 3 PGs: CP3, D-Will, Westbrook, rest were wings

Just b/c its what he's done each of the last 3 go arounds doesn't mean he'll definitely do it this time, but its my guess that he will.

My prediction:

PGs: Irving, Rose, Curry
Wings: Durant, George, Harden, Thompson, Beal
Bigs: Davis, Cousins, Faried (I just love his motor)

Starting lineup
Irving, Curry, George, Durant, Davis

I expect Rose & Harden to be main rotation guys and for Cousins to see lots of run as well.

I could see Wall making the team over Beal b/c of Curry's ability to play off the ball, and we already will have multiple 40% 3pt shooters in KD, Thompson, Curry and Irving so its not like we need another zone-breaker/shooting specialist, which is really the role he would fill. It's a role Coach K had focused on in past lineups, but I don't think we need it given the presence of 4 outstanding shooters already on the team and Curry is basically that guy already.

awhom111
07-28-2014, 12:15 AM
NBATV will have coverage of a practice on Tuesday from 3:00-5:30pm EDT and replay it at 9:00pm EDT.

As usual they will probably not show anything that you want to see, but its better than nothing.

JasonEvans
07-28-2014, 07:50 AM
For those who had not heard, Paul Millsap has been added (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/u-s--adds-paul-millsap-to-pool-of-world-cup-players-220217100.html) to the Team USA pool to compete for a big man spot. He really developed a better perimeter game last year in Atlanta and with the shorter 3-point line in FIBA would be well-suited to be a stretch 4.

Also, Silky, the buzz I was talking about was a lot of chatter on Twitter regarding the Plumlees and the possibility they could be given a shot at the team. Some knowledgeable NBA folks were mentioning the possibility in the moments after the Love announcement. Calmer heads have since prevailed (in this thread too). Regardless, the addition of Millsap makes that point moot.

If you look at our top competition, Spain with Ibaka and the Gasol brothers, then I think K would be wise to take legit PF/Cs to compete inside versus potentially counting on Parsons, George, or McBuckets to play D and rebound against legit big men (obviously, Durant is a wing who is more than capable of playing a big man on D).

-Jason "winning this tourney keeps the US out of Olympic qualifying, which would be a nice rest for the guys who take time to play for Team USA during their off-season" Evans

CDu
07-28-2014, 08:10 AM
For those who had not heard, Paul Millsap has been added (http://sports.yahoo.com/news/u-s--adds-paul-millsap-to-pool-of-world-cup-players-220217100.html) to the Team USA pool to compete for a big man spot. He really developed a better perimeter game last year in Atlanta and with the shorter 3-point line in FIBA would be well-suited to be a stretch 4.

This is a very nice addition, in my opinion. Millsap gives the US something that the other four big men don't: shooting ability. As Jason has mentioned, he offers a realistic option of a stretch 4. Millsap is sort of a (VERY) poor man's Kevin Love in that he rebounds, can score in the post, and can shoot from the perimeter.


If you look at our top competition, Spain with Ibaka and the Gasol brothers, then I think K would be wise to take legit PF/Cs to compete inside versus potentially counting on Parsons, George, or McBuckets to play D and rebound against legit big men (obviously, Durant is a wing who is more than capable of playing a big man on D).

With the addition of Millsap, I now think we will take Davis, one of Drummond/Cousins (probably Cousins), and Millsap. Perhaps we take Faried as well, but that seems a bit less likely now that we have another true PF in the pool of players.

awhom111
07-28-2014, 08:50 AM
Here is the official announcement as Jimmy Butler is injured and will not play for the select team:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/usa-basketball-add-atlantas-paul-millsap-to-usa-mens-national-team-training-camp-roster.aspx

roywhite
07-28-2014, 08:57 AM
Training camp in Las Vegas underway (https://twitter.com/NBA/status/493580864224104451/photo/1)

Billy Dat
07-28-2014, 08:58 AM
With Love out, this is getting really interesting. While I always want USA to win gold and go undefeated, it's pretty riveting when we don't send our best 12 because of the argument that while we'll have the best talent, we're vulnerable.

Of course, we all felt the same way in 2010, a scenario that felt even more fragile because we had zero carryover from the 2008 Olympic team. It turned into Durant's "I am one of the handful of best players in the Universe" coronation. This year is a different situation because KD is such a proven quantity coming in. He'll be the unquestioned alpha dog, at least he should be. I assume K has already had many conversations with him along the lines of, "You are the leader, you are my eyes and ears, I am going to depend on you immensely on the court, and to keep me apprised of team dynamics and locker room politics".

After KD, it will be interesting to see who else emerges as the leaders of the team. It's natural to want to say Rose, but he is such an unknown quantity at this point that its hard to pin our hopes there. I have to think Curry is going to be hugely important based on his experience (2010, limited playing time, but still) and emergence since then as one of the bright stars of the league. We are also going to need on court production and defensive presence from Davis (he's a lock based on 2012 experience) and my gut says this is Boogie's chance to break out, show maturity, and be a real presence for the US. I just feel like he, while being kooky, is a more complete package than Drummond - but maybe Drummond is the Chandler remix - an all defense anchor who doesn't care of he gets touches. You sense Boogie wants touches.


NBATV will have coverage of a practice on Tuesday from 3:00-5:30pm EDT and replay it at 9:00pm EDT.
As usual they will probably not show anything that you want to see, but its better than nothing.

I know I have said this before, but I find these practice shows engrossing. It has nothing to do with the inane banter being produced by the panel - they are fine but its typical talking head rehash. I love when they start panning the crowd and letting you listen to the players and coaches. There will be Larry Bird, Magic and Jerry West sitting together on a bleacher, or you see, at the back of a huddle, young Brad Beal threatening the life of young Andre Drummond (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzSYkJBsE_E). As I like to say, these shows need to be closely examined like the Zapruder film!

CDu
07-28-2014, 09:10 AM
Here is the official announcement as Jimmy Butler is injured and will not play for the select team:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/usa-basketball-add-atlantas-paul-millsap-to-usa-mens-national-team-training-camp-roster.aspx

Butler is actually a guy I could have seen playing some "stretch 4" for the USA team in a pinch. Defensively, he'd have been just fine there. And offensively, his game translates nicely to PF in the international game. But, alas, a minor (perhaps even made up?) injury pulls him out of the group.

Billy Dat
07-28-2014, 09:56 AM
Now Fran Fraschilla continues to sound the alarm on Twitter.

Thanks for the heads-up, I just checked out some of his tweets and this one rings true to me:

Fran Fraschilla @franfraschilla · Jul 26
It's business decision for Kevin Love. I get that. But newness of repping Team USA feels like it's starting to wear off generally.

I know someone else on the thread lauded the creation of the Colangelo "program" to mitigate this level of non-participation - I looked for it and couldn't find it to quote it - but it is the primary difference between 2002 and 2014. Aside from the fact that, in 2002, most of the NBA players thought there was zero percent chance of us getting beat (besides surviving a Sarunas Jesikevicius buzzer beating game winning 3 that missed in the 2000 Olympic semis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EXo7FGZyMo&t=2m59s)), we had no foundation for moving past key players missing. While some of the novelty may have worn off, the new USA Basketball program really operates as a sort of Academy starting at U16 and including U17, U18, U19, the Select Team and the National Team pool. There is continuity of not only coaching and players with varying levels of experience and grounding in the system, but also the establishment of Las Vegas as the site and the highest of quality amenities and training.

The new collective bargaining agreement, and its resulting shorter contracts, means that more players will not only be held up by potential contract negotiations more often, but also worried about that next contract more often, to the point where they may be afraid to risk injury through summer ball. Thus, the program has to have a "next man up" structure and they have achieved it, and effectively exploited the US' prime advantage in international ball, the extraordinary depth of our elite talent pool.

While the novelty may be waring off, I think they have established that the players who make the team tend to get a lot better based on the experience, and broaden their international exposure by some measure (I don't want to oversell that aspect because the NBA is on TV throughout most of the world), but those things translate to $ and that will always help drive participation.

Boogie, for example, has a real chance to launder his image with a big summer, which, among all the other benefits, could make him a lot more $.

If K can guide this group to Gold, in Spain, it'll be another grand achievement.

Not for nothing, it is amazing to look back at the 2004 Olympic roster and marvel at the difference a program can make. Obviously, these guys were extremely green but who could imagine that this team was lucky to even medal:

The Leaders/Vets:
Duncan, Iverson, Marbury, Marion

The Young Vets:
Jefferson, Odom

The Puppies:
Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Amare, Boozer, Okafor

g-money
07-28-2014, 11:23 AM
Not for nothing, it is amazing to look back at the 2004 Olympic roster and marvel at the difference a program can make. Obviously, these guys were extremely green but who could imagine that this team was lucky to even medal:

The Leaders/Vets:
Duncan, Iverson, Marbury, Marion

The Young Vets:
Jefferson, Odom

The Puppies:
Lebron, Wade, Carmelo, Amare, Boozer, Okafor

Great post, Billy. Yes, it is amazing what good leadership and coaching can bring. Both Colangelo and Coach K have done our country a great service.

That being said, however, I agree that the upcoming FIBA tournament has all the makings of a "trap tournament" for the USA. The event is being held in Spain, the Spanish frontline looks like it will be stronger than ours at this point, and our team is relatively inexperienced (with KD being the obvious exception). Did I mention that this thing is being held in Spain?


If K can guide this group to Gold, in Spain, it'll be another grand achievement.

Indeed. Let's see what the master has up his sleeve.

CDu
07-28-2014, 11:47 AM
Great post, Billy. Yes, it is amazing what good leadership and coaching can bring. Both Colangelo and Coach K have done our country a great service.

That being said, however, I agree that the upcoming FIBA tournament has all the makings of a "trap tournament" for the USA. The event is being held in Spain, the Spanish frontline looks like it will be stronger than ours at this point, and our team is relatively inexperienced (with KD being the obvious exception). Did I mention that this thing is being held in Spain?



Indeed. Let's see what the master has up his sleeve.

Yeah, it's going to be very difficult to win this thing. Spain's national team has a LOT of talent, with the Gasols, Ibaka, Sergio Rodriguez, Rubio, Rudy Fernandez, and Jose Calderon all currently or former NBA players. That they'll be playing on their home court will be a huge edge for them.

However, I don't think it should be discounted that we'll still be easily the most talented team out there. We have the possibility of starting two MVPs (if Rose is healthy enough) with gold medal experience. We can complement them with two or three more guys who are among the top-20 players in the word (George, Curry, Harden). I would argue that our 12th man may be as good as Spain's 5th best player.

What will be key is how well we get these guys to play together. Where Spain really has the edge is in experience. The Spanish top-10 have been playing together as a unit in international competitions for years. We have several guys who have played internationally, but not many of these guys have actually played together.

Should be fun to watch.

Billy Dat
07-28-2014, 12:12 PM
Good Chris Sheridan piece on the potential roster
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/07/26/sheridan-who-will-make-12-man-team-usa-roster/

CDu
07-28-2014, 07:09 PM
This may or may not fall under the occasional examples of Coach K's "coachspeak", but the following tweet sounds promising to this Bulls fan:


Ben Golliver ‏@BenGolliver 5m
Coach K said that he sees Durant, Harden, Rose as potential team leaders. Regarding Rose: “He [looks] better than he did 4 years ago.”


Nick Friedell ‏@NickFriedell 43s
Thibs says Rose’s speed and explosion were the same.


Also, these videos looked nice:
https://vine.co/v/M0LJAAthnl7

http://instagram.com/p/rAhSz3Rh3R/

Hoping that Day 1 portends good things for Rose (and of course Team USA) in the future.

awhom111
07-29-2014, 12:03 AM
Official USA Basketball stuff from today:
Article:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/mens-national-team-sets-the-tone-on-day-1-at-training-camp.aspx
Quotes:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/additional-quotes-from-day-1-of-mens-national-team-training-camp.aspx

brevity
07-29-2014, 12:35 AM
Official USA Basketball stuff from today:
Article:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/mens-national-team-sets-the-tone-on-day-1-at-training-camp.aspx
Quotes:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/additional-quotes-from-day-1-of-mens-national-team-training-camp.aspx

From the article:


USA Basketball extended a practice invite to United States Air Force pilots at Nellis Air Force Base, which is located about a half hour northeast of the UNLV campus. Three pilots, all members of the USAF’s elite Weapons School, and their families were able to stop by. While their kids ran around bouncing basketballs and playing hide-and-seek, Colonel Adrian Spain was watching the court and noticing a parallel between the USA team and the Weapons School, which takes already elite pilots and puts them through rigorous training.

If we avoid dipping too heavily into the sports/war comparison, this is kind of awesome. I imagine Coach K takes those five fingers on the court and makes them a fist, and then guest lecturers like Jeff Speakman teach that fist to become the perfect weapon.

Reilly
07-29-2014, 05:23 AM
K Q and A: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/q-a-with-team-usa-coach-mike-krzyzewski-060317404.html

Chicken Little
07-29-2014, 08:55 AM
Saw this video from camp of Mason showing some nice moves against Anthony Davis:

http://instagram.com/p/rBAWrZCipd/

Billy Dat
07-29-2014, 11:46 AM
Zach Lowe and Bill Simmons talk Team USA and FIBA World Cup in this pod:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=11277116

theAlaskanBear
07-29-2014, 12:10 PM
Zach Lowe and Bill Simmons talk Team USA and FIBA World Cup in this pod:
http://espn.go.com/espnradio/grantland/player?id=11277116

Simmons wants so hard to trash Kyrie, you can hear it in his voice. The others guys don't necessarily agree with him and it stops him from going full bore. One of the multitude of things that annoys me about Simmons -- he always needs a player to hate on.

CameronBornAndBred
07-29-2014, 12:12 PM
usatoday article on griffin and wall ...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2014/07/24/blake-griffin-jerry-colangelo-team-usa-olympics/13138109/

With healthy players like Aldridge and Griffin pulling out in order to focus on their forthcoming NBA seasons, the silver lining for Team USA is that Derrick Rose remains on track to take part.

So it turns out that wasn't the case with Griffin, as he was advised by doctors to pay attention to a fractured back. Eek.
http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/11279085/blake-griffin-los-angeles-clippers-small-fracture-back

Billy Dat
07-29-2014, 01:28 PM
I didn't realize Chris Collins was coaching the Select Team....very cool

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/28/northwestern-head-coach-chris-collins-to-coach-usa-basketball-select-team/

kAzE
07-29-2014, 01:31 PM
Simmons wants so hard to trash Kyrie, you can hear it in his voice. The others guys don't necessarily agree with him and it stops him from going full bore. One of the multitude of things that annoys me about Simmons -- he always needs a player to hate on.

Yeah, it kind of pisses me off tbh . . . Damian Lillard is almost 2 years older than Kyrie (1 year, 10 months). Kyrie is freakin 22 years old. He's nowhere near his peak as a player yet, whereas I don't see Lillard improving significantly from his season last year. Even then, I think Kyrie is just as good or even better than Lillard right now. Who on the Cavs roster even remotely resembled the veteran teammates Lillard had, with LMA, Wesley Matthews, Nic Batum, Lopez, and Mo Williams? Kyrie had to do everything for his team last year. He's also been just as good in clutch moments. Granted, he hasn't been able to show that in a playoff setting, but I think there was some stat after his 2nd year where he had a higher 4th quarter FG% than LeBron, Kobe, or anyone. That's a crazy unfair comparison, and I think Kyrie is just better, and I'd take him over Lillard every day of the week.

flyingdutchdevil
07-29-2014, 02:11 PM
Yeah, it kind of pisses me off tbh . . . Damian Lillard is almost 2 years older than Kyrie (1 year, 10 months). Kyrie is freakin 22 years old. He's nowhere near his peak as a player yet, whereas I don't see Lillard improving significantly from his season last year. Even then, I think Kyrie is just as good or even better than Lillard right now. Who on the Cavs roster even remotely resembled the veteran teammates Lillard had, with LMA, Wesley Matthews, Nic Batum, Lopez, and Mo Williams? Kyrie had to do everything for his team last year. He's also been just as good in clutch moments. Granted, he hasn't been able to show that in a playoff setting, but I think there was some stat after his 2nd year where he had a higher 4th quarter FG% than LeBron, Kobe, or anyone. That's a crazy unfair comparison, and I think Kyrie is just better, and I'd take him over Lillard every day of the week.

Zach Lowe had the following to say about Kyrie v Lillard:


After last season there’s really no good answer. They’re similar players except Lillard was sort of a more stable team force and a better three-point shooter last year, off the dribble and off the catch. More prolific and just better. And he’s a sneaky good athlete too. He’s not quite as flashy in terms of the dribbling and fancy passes as Kyrie but he may be nearly as good of an athlete. If not a better one and more above the rim when he needs to be. I agree with you–if he’s not penciled in, clearly regarded behind Kyrie in the pecking order–I’m not sure why that is.

I think it's hard to vote against Lillard right now. He had the better year, the better stats, and he had less negative press against him. Given, he was definitely on the better team.

The one huge advantage for Kyrie (outside of the whole Duke connection, of course) is that Kyrie plays so much better when a) in the spot light and b) playing with superstars. Looking at the last two All-Star games and the Rookie-Sophomore challenges, Kyrie's game really excels. Small sample size, but still relevant, IMO.

Obviously, I'm gunning for Kyrie to make the team over Lillard (I really think there can only be one, as two of the five PGs will most likely be cut and I think Wall has the highest chance of not making the team), but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lillard over Kyrie.

CDu
07-29-2014, 02:19 PM
Zach Lowe had the following to say about Kyrie v Lillard:



I think it's hard to vote against Lillard right now. He had the better year, the better stats, and he had less negative press against him. Given, he was definitely on the better team.

The one huge advantage for Kyrie (outside of the whole Duke connection, of course) is that Kyrie plays so much better when a) in the spot light and b) playing with superstars. Looking at the last two All-Star games and the Rookie-Sophomore challenges, Kyrie's game really excels. Small sample size, but still relevant, IMO.

Obviously, I'm gunning for Kyrie to make the team over Lillard (I really think there can only be one, as two of the five PGs will most likely be cut and I think Wall has the highest chance of not making the team), but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lillard over Kyrie.

I agree with all of this. I sort of see the PG battle as this:

Curry is a lock: he can play PG and SG, and will likely play a fair amount of SG.

Rose and Wall are battling for one spot. Rose would seem to have the edge based on previous experience (don't underestimate the importance of this; Coach K and Colangelo have preached for YEARS about how much continuity matters) and has an advocate on the staff (Thibs). If Rose is healthy (and it appears that he is based on Day 1 reports), he's going to be on the team. Coach K's quotes about Rose looking really good and that Rose, Harden, and Durant are potential leaders of this team further emphasize this. Rose and Wall bring the best defense of the PG along with the most size and athleticism.

Lillard and Irving competing for the last spot. These two guys are so similar to one another that it just seems logical that one will make it and one won't.

If I had to guess, I'd say Curry, Rose, and Irving. But I wouldn't want to be held to that guess. :)

kAzE
07-29-2014, 03:01 PM
I agree with all of this. I sort of see the PG battle as this:

Curry is a lock: he can play PG and SG, and will likely play a fair amount of SG.

Rose and Wall are battling for one spot. Rose would seem to have the edge based on previous experience (don't underestimate the importance of this; Coach K and Colangelo have preached for YEARS about how much continuity matters) and has an advocate on the staff (Thibs). If Rose is healthy (and it appears that he is based on Day 1 reports), he's going to be on the team. Coach K's quotes about Rose looking really good and that Rose, Harden, and Durant are potential leaders of this team further emphasize this. Rose and Wall bring the best defense of the PG along with the most size and athleticism.

Lillard and Irving competing for the last spot. These two guys are so similar to one another that it just seems logical that one will make it and one won't.

If I had to guess, I'd say Curry, Rose, and Irving. But I wouldn't want to be held to that guess. :)

If Lillard and Irving are neck and neck and 1 of them has to get cut, I'd be shocked and appalled if Coach K didn't go with his own guy. Plus, if continuity is a big factor, Irving was on the select team in 2012, and by all accounts, was one of the most impressive guys on the floor, non-select team included. Plus, he's 22, and figures to be a big part of the national team in 2016 and probably 2018/2020. I will be pretty upset (and a little bit mad at Coach K) if Lillard makes the team at the expense of Kyrie.

dukejim1
07-29-2014, 03:08 PM
to pool of 19 (now 20) per Colangelo. Mainly to balance practice

Duvall
07-29-2014, 03:19 PM
I think it's hard to vote against Lillard right now. He had the better year, the better stats, and he had less negative press against him.

Oh, not negative press! That's always an accurate measure of a player's ability.


Given, he was definitely on the better team.

A minor consideration.

flyingdutchdevil
07-29-2014, 03:27 PM
I agree with all of this. I sort of see the PG battle as this:

Curry is a lock: he can play PG and SG, and will likely play a fair amount of SG.

Rose and Wall are battling for one spot. Rose would seem to have the edge based on previous experience (don't underestimate the importance of this; Coach K and Colangelo have preached for YEARS about how much continuity matters) and has an advocate on the staff (Thibs). If Rose is healthy (and it appears that he is based on Day 1 reports), he's going to be on the team. Coach K's quotes about Rose looking really good and that Rose, Harden, and Durant are potential leaders of this team further emphasize this. Rose and Wall bring the best defense of the PG along with the most size and athleticism.

Lillard and Irving competing for the last spot. These two guys are so similar to one another that it just seems logical that one will make it and one won't.

If I had to guess, I'd say Curry, Rose, and Irving. But I wouldn't want to be held to that guess. :)

Yeah, agree on your 3 choices. The knock on Wall is that he can't play the 2 as well as the others. Curry is arguably the best shooter on this team (BTW, this team is stacked with shooters. No need for a Michael Redd type player). Irving and Lillard are offensive studs and defensive liabilities. Can't really make a case for one over the other.

My interest lies in Rose. Rose is obviously a better player than Wall, and arguably the best defender of the 5 (not saying much, but still). But he's coming off another horrific injury. If I were the Bulls, I'd be freaked out about Rose and do everything I can to convince him to not play. I wouldn't be surprised if Rose is doing this for the practice and will pull out before the final cut.

CDu
07-29-2014, 03:33 PM
My interest lies in Rose. Rose is obviously a better player than Wall, and arguably the best defender of the 5 (not saying much, but still). But he's coming off another horrific injury. If I were the Bulls, I'd be freaked out about Rose and do everything I can to convince him to not play. I wouldn't be surprised if Rose is doing this for the practice and will pull out before the final cut.

To be fair, his most recent injury wasn't that horrific. I mean, I'm not saying folks should go out and tear their mensicus or anything. But compared to an ACL tear, a meniscus is MUCH less severe.

As a Bulls fan, I'm actually taking the other stance. I think that Rose shaking off the rust with Team USA is a blessing. When he came back last year, his timing was off. This year, by practicing and (hopefully) playing with Team USA, he'll work out much (if not all) of the rust before training camp. And the more time he spends with Team USA, the less rusty he should be come NBA time.

Is there a risk that he'll get hurt again? Sure. But at this point, his knees are as healthy as they're ever going to be again. So if training and playing with Team USA gets him hurt again, then that was probably going to happen anyway once he joined the Bulls and was forced to play against NBA competition on a regular basis.

flyingdutchdevil
07-29-2014, 03:36 PM
To be fair, his most recent injury wasn't that horrific. I mean, I'm not saying folks should go out and tear their mensicus or anything. But compared to an ACL tear, a meniscus is MUCH less severe.

As a Bulls fan, I'm actually taking the other stance. I think that Rose shaking off the rust with Team USA is a blessing. When he came back last year, his timing was off. This year, by practicing and (hopefully) playing with Team USA, he'll work out much (if not all) of the rust before training camp. And the more time he spends with Team USA, the less rusty he should be come NBA time.

Is there a risk that he'll get hurt again? Sure. But at this point, his knees are as healthy as they're ever going to be again. So if training and playing with Team USA gets him hurt again, then that was probably going to happen anyway once he joined the Bulls and was forced to play against NBA competition on a regular basis.

Thanks for your perspective. I often take the opposite approach with my sports teams, but I get where you're coming from.

Have you heard anything from the Bulls organization? Do they want Rose playing on Team USA? Or are they taking the Greg Popovich approach? Just curious.

CDu
07-29-2014, 04:32 PM
Thanks for your perspective. I often take the opposite approach with my sports teams, but I get where you're coming from.

Oh, I hear you. I won't lie: if Rose DOES get hurt, I'll have some frustration in hindsight. But I'll probably eventually come back to the realization that he was probably going to break down in the NBA anyway. But I definitely understand your viewpoint.


Have you heard anything from the Bulls organization? Do they want Rose playing on Team USA? Or are they taking the Greg Popovich approach? Just curious.

Well, Thibs is one of the coaches, and he's had nothing but good things to say so far. The organization doesn't really talk much (it's actually pretty annoying as a fan how secretive they are), so there hasn't been much talk from the organization. Not sure how much we can take from Thibs' comments, either. Even if he was opposed to Rose playing, as a member of the USA staff he can't go on record saying he doesn't want Rose to play. So while Thibs has been encouraging of Rose playing, I guess that shouldn't necessarily be taken at face value.

theAlaskanBear
07-29-2014, 10:34 PM
Zach Lowe had the following to say about Kyrie v Lillard:



I think it's hard to vote against Lillard right now. He had the better year, the better stats, and he had less negative press against him. Given, he was definitely on the better team.

The one huge advantage for Kyrie (outside of the whole Duke connection, of course) is that Kyrie plays so much better when a) in the spot light and b) playing with superstars. Looking at the last two All-Star games and the Rookie-Sophomore challenges, Kyrie's game really excels. Small sample size, but still relevant, IMO.

Obviously, I'm gunning for Kyrie to make the team over Lillard (I really think there can only be one, as two of the five PGs will most likely be cut and I think Wall has the highest chance of not making the team), but I wouldn't be surprised to see Lillard over Kyrie.

Zach Lowe can say Lillard is a better athlete, but if he is, it is not reflected in the stats anywhere you might expect athleticism to show. Kyrie is a better shooter inside 16 and at the rim than Lillard, has better rate and advanced statistics pretty much across the board. Lillard only bests Kyrie in health and this past seasons 3pt%. Lillard's career FG% (.427) is worse than Irvings worst year. I like Lillard, he is a solid point who can really shoot it from deep. But so can Kyrie.

kAzE
07-29-2014, 10:54 PM
Zach Lowe can say Lillard is a better athlete, but if he is, it is not reflected in the stats anywhere you might expect athleticism to show. Kyrie is a better shooter inside 16 and at the rim than Lillard, has better rate and advanced statistics pretty much across the board. Lillard only bests Kyrie in health and this past seasons 3pt%. Lillard's career FG% (.427) is worse than Irvings worst year. I like Lillard, he is a solid point who can really shoot it from deep. But so can Kyrie.

Of players who took 100 or more FG attempts in the NBA last season, Damian Lillard took the worst quality shots of anyone. I linked this paper in another thread, but check out page 6:

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/2014-SSAC-Quantifying-Shot-Quality-in-the-NBA.pdf

His effective shot quality is the lowest for all shots taken (he's not listed, but it's 42.8). Give him credit, he still ranks in the top 5 for EFG+ in mid range shots and 3 pointers because he's a damn good shooter, but his shot selection is absolute crap.

I actually hate ripping on Lillard, he's one of my favorite players. He's a legitimately good person by all accounts (he's really, really nice to fans, and I'm friends with him on facebook) and I love his commercials, they are hilarious. But when you are gunning for my favorite player's spot on the national team, I wont' pull any punches. I'm coming after you, Dame!

awhom111
07-30-2014, 12:06 AM
Here is Day 2 Official Coverage:

Article:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/day-2-roundup-competition-and-intensity-mounts.aspx
Quotes:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/quotes-from-day-2-of-mens-national-team-training-camp.aspx

sagegrouse
07-30-2014, 08:25 AM
Here is Day 2 Official Coverage:

Article:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/day-2-roundup-competition-and-intensity-mounts.aspx
Quotes:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/quotes-from-day-2-of-mens-national-team-training-camp.aspx

Money quote for Ol' Sage:


USA Basketball invited two 2014 draft picks to join the Select Team during this training camp, and so far Marcus Smart ..., especially, has been turning heads during the scrimmages. The Select Team’s job is to make the National Team better and Smart is doing that with tough defense and matching shot-for-shot on offense. He was one of the most impressive guards on the court both days regardless of team, which is saying something considering he has yet to play an NBA game.

“It’s incredible and such an honor,” Smart said of training camp. “It speaks volumes about how much we’re liked by the USA Basketball organization.”

SilkyJ
07-30-2014, 10:22 AM
This may or may not fall under the occasional examples of Coach K's "coachspeak"



PGs: Irving, Rose, Curry
Wings: Durant, George, Harden, Thompson, Beal
Bigs: Davis, Cousins, Faried (I just love his motor)

Starting lineup
Irving, Curry, George, Durant, Davis

I expect Rose and Harden to be main rotation guys.


Given the reports on Rose (and I don't think its K-speak given that its coming from ALL the coaches), it sounds like he may be back to form. The guy was the league MVP before he got hurt and had supplanted CP3 as the best PG in the game (at worst they were tied). If he's healthy, he's the starter. With harden's experience with Team USA, it makes sense that he'd be a leader for the team as well...so with those two things in mind I'll swap Rose & Harden from being main rotation guys into the starting lineup and put Curry and George off the bench.

sagegrouse
07-30-2014, 10:52 AM
Given the reports on Rose (and I don't think its K-speak given that its coming from ALL the coaches), it sounds like he may be back to form. The guy was the league MVP before he got hurt and had supplanted CP3 as the best PG in the game (at worst they were tied). If he's healthy, he's the starter. With harden's experience with Team USA, it makes sense that he'd be a leader for the team as well...so with those two things in mind I'll swap Rose & Harden from being main rotation guys into the starting lineup and put Curry and George off the bench.

Quite possibly true, but given Harden's communication skills and overall attitude, especially about defense, it hard for me to equate "Harden" and "leader."

CDu
07-30-2014, 11:55 AM
Given the reports on Rose (and I don't think its K-speak given that its coming from ALL the coaches), it sounds like he may be back to form. The guy was the league MVP before he got hurt and had supplanted CP3 as the best PG in the game (at worst they were tied). If he's healthy, he's the starter. With harden's experience with Team USA, it makes sense that he'd be a leader for the team as well...so with those two things in mind I'll swap Rose & Harden from being main rotation guys into the starting lineup and put Curry and George off the bench.

I tend to agree with you on Rose (mostly because I believe you are right, and partly because I'm a Bulls fan :)). I think he will be the starting PG. But if I were to guess at the lineup right now, I'd say the more likely starting lineup would be:

PG - Rose
SG - Curry/Harden
SF - Harden/Durant
PF - Durant/George
C - Davis

With a second unit of:
PG - Irving
SG - Harden/Curry
SF - George/Thompson
PF - Millsap
C - Cousins

And for the "last" spots, I'd expect one of Faried/Drummond and one of Korver/Parsons.

flyingdutchdevil
07-30-2014, 12:01 PM
I tend to agree with you on Rose (mostly because I believe you are right, and partly because I'm a Bulls fan :)). I think he will be the starting PG. But if I were to guess at the lineup right now, I'd say the more likely starting lineup would be:

PG - Rose
SG - Curry/Harden
SF - Harden/Durant
PF - Durant/George
C - Davis

With a second unit of:
PG - Irving
SG - Harden/Curry
SF - George/Thompson
PF - Millsap
C - Cousins

And for the "last" spots, I'd expect one of Faried/Drummond and one of Korver/Parsons.

I think you can only really start one of Curry or Harden. Offensively, Curry is a better shooter but Harden is the more diverse scorer. But they are both gawd awful at D. Like, historically bad. With a Line-up of Rose, Curry, Durant, George, and Davis, you have a strong mix of offense, defense, and insane athleticism. I absolutely love that line-up.

CDu
07-30-2014, 12:24 PM
I think you can only really start one of Curry or Harden. Offensively, Curry is a better shooter but Harden is the more diverse scorer. But they are both gawd awful at D. Like, historically bad. With a Line-up of Rose, Curry, Durant, George, and Davis, you have a strong mix of offense, defense, and insane athleticism. I absolutely love that line-up.

Yeah, I agree. That's probably my preferred starting lineup. I really like the idea of Curry as the starting SG. It gives us an extra ballhandler and playmaker, while putting one of the best shooters in the world on the floor. I think George as a PF is a dynamite player in the international game. So I might revise to say:

Rose, Curry, Durant, George, and Davis start, with the second unit being Irving, Harden, Thompson, Millsap, Cousins. Now, I don't think we'll actually see that second unit play a lot together, as that would be an atrocious group defensively. But any of those guys could filter into the lineup as needed, with guys like George, Davis, and Rose able to shift around as needed for defensive purposes.

Troublemaker
07-30-2014, 02:35 PM
I'm intrigued by the possibility of Coach K, for the first time, playing two bigs together predominantly on Team USA. A three-man big rotation of Davis, Love, and Griffin is talented enough to do so.

Wow, what a horrible jinx that post turned out to be. Sorry, America.

Obviously USA still has enough firepower to win with our usual 1-big lineups, but I'm kind of bummed to not have the 2-big lineup as an intriguing possibility. Oh, well. Durant back to the 4 where he was dominant in the previous World Championships.

I agree with others that if the early reports on Rose are accurate, I prefer a Rose-Curry-George-Durant-Davis starting lineup.

flyingdutchdevil
07-30-2014, 02:59 PM
Yeah, I agree. That's probably my preferred starting lineup. I really like the idea of Curry as the starting SG. It gives us an extra ballhandler and playmaker, while putting one of the best shooters in the world on the floor. I think George as a PF is a dynamite player in the international game. So I might revise to say:

Rose, Curry, Durant, George, and Davis start, with the second unit being Irving, Harden, Thompson, Millsap, Cousins. Now, I don't think we'll actually see that second unit play a lot together, as that would be an atrocious group defensively. But any of those guys could filter into the lineup as needed, with guys like George, Davis, and Rose able to shift around as needed for defensive purposes.

Looking at this group, it is arguably one of the best collection of shooters ever assembled.

Korver, Curry, Thompson, Lillard, Durant, and Beal all shot over 39% from 3-land last year. Irving, Parsons, Harden, Millsap, and George all shot over 35% from 3-land. Pretty insane.

Defense will be more of an issue, with George and Davis being the only highly reputable defenders. I mean, Thompson, Millsap, Rose, and Faried can hold their own, but the team is filled with players who are known to be subpar on-ball defenders (Curry, Korver, Irving, Harden, Cousins, Lillard).

Billy Dat
07-30-2014, 09:59 PM
K's quotes make it seem like the following guys are locks or close to locks at this point:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/quotes-from-day-3.aspx

Durant, Rose, George, Davis, Harden, Curry, Irving,

He also mentioned Lillard, so he may be safe.

After Davis, he doesn't seem to want to overly praise Cousins or Drummond (he also mentioned Faried and Plumlee)

I haven't heard him recently mention Beal, Wall, Milsap, Thompson, Korver, Hayward, DeRozen or Parsons

JasonEvans
07-31-2014, 07:26 PM
ESPN's Brian Windhorst is reporting that Mason Plumlee is now expected to make the team ahead of Cousins. Plumlee has displayed a waaay better attitude than many of the other players, especially Cousins who apparently pouted a lot when he did not get a foul call in a scrimmage game. K don't tolerate that kind of stuff.

-Jason "and all ya'll mocked me when I first said the MP Bros had a chance to make the team" Evans

kAzE
07-31-2014, 07:31 PM
ESPN's Brian Windhorst is reporting that Mason Plumlee is now expected to make the team ahead of Cousins. Plumlee has displayed a waaay better attitude than many of the other players, especially Cousins who apparently pouted a lot when he did not get a foul call in a scrimmage game. K don't tolerate that kind of stuff.

-Jason "and all ya'll mocked me when I first said the MP Bros had a chance to make the team" Evans

I wasn't one of them, I think MP2 has a chance to be a top 6-7 center in the league if he keeps improving at the rate he's going. However, if this happens, it's not going to go over well with a lot of people, especially UK fans . . . and they already despise Coach K. I can already hear Bill Simmons throwing a fit on his podcast. I'm rooting for it, though. GO MASON!!

CDu
07-31-2014, 07:32 PM
ESPN's Brian Windhorst is reporting that Mason Plumlee is now expected to make the team ahead of Cousins. Plumlee has displayed a waaay better attitude than many of the other players, especially Cousins who apparently pouted a lot when he did not get a foul call in a scrimmage game. K don't tolerate that kind of stuff.

-Jason "and all ya'll mocked me when I first said the MP Bros had a chance to make the team" Evans

I will believe it when I see it, because in terms of talent and production Mason has no business being on the team.

Duvall
07-31-2014, 07:32 PM
ESPN's Brian Windhorst is reporting that Mason Plumlee is now expected to make the team ahead of Cousins. Plumlee has displayed a waaay better attitude than many of the other players, especially Cousins who apparently pouted a lot when he did not get a foul call in a scrimmage game. K don't tolerate that kind of stuff.

-Jason "and all ya'll mocked me when I first said the MP Bros had a chance to make the team" Evans

And we were right to mock you! This makes little sense.

kAzE
07-31-2014, 07:50 PM
I will believe it when I see it, because in terms of talent and production Mason has no business being on the team.

Per 36 minutes (Career):

DeMarcus Cousins: 21.2 PPG, 12.1 RPG, 1.2 BPG, 2.8 APG, 1.7 SPG, 46.2% FG, 3.7 TO
Mason Plumlee: 14.6 PPG, 8.7 RPG, 1.6 BPG, 1.8 APG, 1.4 SPG, 65.9% FG, 2.2 TO

Cousins is clearly more talented, but give Mason a bump in his stats for transitioning from a rookie to a sophomore along the lines of what his older brother did, and he's not THAT far off. He's also way more efficient, takes way fewer bad shots, is much more mobile, runs the floor much better, legitimately plays better defense (Cousins is terrible defensively), and doesn't act like a total d-bag all the time. I could see why Coach K might not be that excited about Cousins. If you just can't get along with the dude (and not many people can), there's no reason to force it.

CDu
07-31-2014, 08:15 PM
Per 36 minutes (Career):

DeMarcus Cousins: 21.2 PPG, 12.1 RPG, 1.2 BPG, 2.8 APG, 1.7 SPG, 46.2% FG, 3.7 TO
Mason Plumlee: 14.6 PPG, 8.7 RPG, 1.6 BPG, 1.8 APG, 1.4 SPG, 65.9% FG, 2.2 TO

Cousins is clearly more talented, but give Mason a bump in his stats for transitioning from a rookie to a sophomore along the lines of what his older brother did, and he's not THAT far off. He's also way more efficient, takes way fewer bad shots, is much more mobile, runs the floor much better, legitimately plays better defense (Cousins is terrible defensively), and doesn't act like a total d-bag all the time. I could see why Coach K might not be that excited about Cousins. If you just can't get along with the dude (and not many people can), there's no reason to force it.

That is quite far off right now. In 4 years (I think we can agree Mason falls far short of the Olympic team)? I could absolutely see Mason earning a spot. But right now, he doesn't deserve it. And I can't imagine that a homer pick would go over well with recruiting future players.

We have been fairly lucky to this point that many of our best players have been willing to participate. If Team USA starts passing over more qualified guys that made the commitment in favor of a Duke guy who hasn't earned it, that isn't a good signal moving forward.

But in reality, why are we to assume Brian Windhorst has any clue who is getting on the team? His entire claim to fame has been that he has followed LeBron around like a puppy dog for the last four years. And in spite of that, even he whiffed on where LeBron was going this summer.

Look, I love Mason. I want to see him do well. But he hasn't earned the right to play on this team. I don't think it would be appropriate for him to be on it.

kAzE
07-31-2014, 08:23 PM
That is quite far off right now. In 4 years (I think we can agree Mason falls far short of the Olympic team)? I could absolutely see Mason earning a spot. But right now, he doesn't deserve it. And I can't imagine that a homer pick would go over well with recruiting future players.

We have been fairly lucky to this point that many of our best players have been willing to participate. If Team USA starts passing over more qualified guys that made the commitment in favor of a Duke guy who hasn't earned it, that isn't a good signal moving forward.

But in reality, why are we to assume Brian Windhorst has any clue who is getting on the team? His entire claim to fame has been that he has followed LeBron around like a puppy dog for the last four years. And in spite of that, even he whiffed on where LeBron was going this summer.

Look, I love Mason. I want to see him do well. But he hasn't earned the right to play on this team. I don't think it would be appropriate for him to be on it.

No, you're right, there are probably better options than Mason. Millsap seems like the obvious choice, if not Faried. I'm just totally not surprised that Cousins is earning his way into Coach K's doghouse. He's just a difficult person who doesn't take well to coaching, or listening to anyone. He barely even got along with John Calipari, and John Calipari gets along with just about everyone. Also, 46% is pretty awful for a 6'11" big man, and 3.7 career turnovers per game is kind of horrifying. Get him outta there, I honestly never liked the guy.

roywhite
07-31-2014, 10:14 PM
Picking the best 12 man team is not the same as picking the 12 best players.

I hope Mason makes the team, and if he does, I believe it will be for the reason that the coaches think he adds more to this team than the others considered. A great experience for Mason regardless.

nmduke2001
07-31-2014, 11:03 PM
If K considers Davis and Drummond as the top two bigs to get PT, why would he want to deal with Cousins sulking on the bench? Plumlee would know his role and fill it proudly. I doubt Cousins would be happy as a role player and might make the environment toxic.

gep
07-31-2014, 11:07 PM
No, you're right, there are probably better options than Mason. Millsap seems like the obvious choice, if not Faried. I'm just totally not surprised that Cousins is earning his way into Coach K's doghouse. He's just a difficult person who doesn't take well to coaching, or listening to anyone. He barely even got along with John Calipari, and John Calipari gets along with just about everyone. Also, 46% is pretty awful for a 6'11" big man, and 3.7 career turnovers per game is kind of horrifying. Get him outta there, I honestly never liked the guy.

Adding to that... a lot of stuff I've read about Cousins is "will he totally control himself, or will he blast off at the slightest incident... player or referee". Also as posted above, apparently "pouting" when not getting a call in *scrimmage*? What happens on the big stage? We surely don't need another "ugly American" incident... no matter the talent.

awhom111
07-31-2014, 11:53 PM
Tons of interesting coverage today on USA Basketball's website:

Article on all those guards:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/usa-roster-overflowing-with-gifted-guards.aspx

A great Duke picture on an article with a heavy dose of Mason:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/day-4-roundup-plumlee-gets-shot-at-national-team.aspx

Quotes including Mason:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/day-4-roundup-plumlee-gets-shot-at-national-team.aspx

Tomorrow's showcase is on ESPN at 9:00pm EDT.
Article:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/teams-unveiled-for-august-1-usa-basketball-showcase-in-las-vegas.aspx
Rosters:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/07/usa-basketball-showcase-rosters.aspx

kAzE
08-01-2014, 02:54 AM
"Managing director Jerry Colangelo and the coaching staff split the National Team up into two seemingly even rosters for Friday’s intrasquad scrimmage. The Blue Team includes guys like Paul George, Derrick Rose and Anthony Davis while Kevin Durant, James Harden and Kyrie Irving will lead the White Team."

Are you kidding me? These teams aren't even close to even according to this description. The white team might as well not exist on defense. I guess they are breaking in Derrick Rose gently.

Skitzle
08-01-2014, 03:04 AM
Per 36 minutes (Career):
{Mason} is much more mobile, runs the floor much better, legitimately plays better defense (Cousins is terrible defensively).


Defense is debatable according to advanced stats.


Mason 2014: 104 DRtg, 2.0 Stl%, 1.6 Blk%, 9.3 OrB%, 19.6 DRb%, 14.5 TRB%
Boogie 2014: 101 Drtg, 2.4 Stl%, 3.2 BLK%, 10.6 ORB%, 30.5 DRB%, 20.4 TRB%

He's better across the board based on the stats, and thats with a higher usage rate and against the other teams starters (not second line)

Definitely arguable.

I think Cousins makes the team, and this is something K floated to get him to shape up :)

Plumlee should NOT be on the squad. In other news, why isn't Greg Monroe even at the USA Camp???

NashvilleDevil
08-01-2014, 05:37 AM
Defense is debatable according to advanced stats.


Mason 2014: 104 DRtg, 2.0 Stl%, 1.6 Blk%, 9.3 OrB%, 19.6 DRb%, 14.5 TRB%
Boogie 2014: 101 Drtg, 2.4 Stl%, 3.2 BLK%, 10.6 ORB%, 30.5 DRB%, 20.4 TRB%

He's better across the board based on the stats, and thats with a higher usage rate and against the other teams starters (not second line)

Definitely arguable.

I think Cousins makes the team, and this is something K floated to get him to shape up :)

Plumlee should NOT be on the squad. In other news, why isn't Greg Monroe even at the USA Camp???

Because Coach K cannot recruit big men.

JasonEvans
08-01-2014, 08:39 AM
Worth noting, a decision on Mason or Boogie is not one which involves Faried or Milsap. Those guys are PFs, not "keep you butt in the post, protect the rim, and battle the other team's center" players.

Windhorst has a new article up (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11293618/anthony-davis-now-center-attention). He says Mason versus Cousins will probably be the last cut and toughest decision. He also says three of the starting five will be George at SF, Durant at PF, and Davis at C. He adds that Drummond does not have a chance to make the team at this point.

-Jason "there are enough people involved in these decisions that I would hope folks would see this is not Duke favoritism if Plumlee makes the team" Evans

CDu
08-01-2014, 09:28 AM
Worth noting, a decision on Mason or Boogie is not one which involves Faried or Milsap. Those guys are PFs, not "keep you butt in the post, protect the rim, and battle the other team's center" players.

Windhorst has a new article up (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11293618/anthony-davis-now-center-attention). He says Mason versus Cousins will probably be the last cut and toughest decision. He also says three of the starting five will be George at SF, Durant at PF, and Davis at C. He adds that Drummond does not have a chance to make the team at this point.

-Jason "there are enough people involved in these decisions that I would hope folks would see this is not Duke favoritism if Plumlee makes the team" Evans

Again, I will point out that there is no reason to assume Windhorst has any actual information on the selection process. But with regard to your signature, I guarantee that many if not most will absolutely see a Plumlee selection as favoritism. We are talking anout a guy who was a rookie backup potentially making it over a near All-Star who does the same things. I can't imagine that anyone besides Duke fans and (maybe) Nets fans would see this as anything but a homer pick.

And with regard to Cousins' attitude problems: I think those are overblown with regard to his chances of making the team. It isn't like Team USA is unfamiliar with Cousins. He has participated on Select teams in the past. If they were really concerned about his attitude, I doubt he would have been invited back.

This all just sounds like a media creation by Windhorst to me. He is the only person who is pushing this and he has no real insider access with which to make such a claim.

Bluedog
08-01-2014, 09:36 AM
-Jason "there are enough people involved in these decisions that I would hope folks would see this is not Duke favoritism if Plumlee makes the team" Evans

I think you'll be disappointed then (assuming that indeed that situation comes to fruition)....But filtering out Duke complaints from the general population is something we should be used to by now. :D


Again, I will point out that there is no reason to assume Windhorst has any actual information on the selection process [...] This all just sounds like a media creation by Windhorst to me. He is the only person who is pushing this and he has no real insider access with which to make such a claim.

Well, he did give this quote from Coach K: "In DeMarcus' case, the style we play lends itself to what Anthony does or even what Plumlee is doing," Krzyzewski said. "DeMarcus' game is different, so he has an adjustment to make and he's trying to make it." Doesn't mean anything with regards to who will make the team necessarily, but at least gives some insight into style of play they're trying to achieve.

flyingdutchdevil
08-01-2014, 10:01 AM
I think you'll be disappointed then (assuming that indeed that situation comes to fruition)....But filtering out Duke complaints from the general population is something we should be used to by now. :D



Well, he did give this quote from Coach K: "In DeMarcus' case, the style we play lends itself to what Anthony does or even what Plumlee is doing," Krzyzewski said. "DeMarcus' game is different, so he has an adjustment to make and he's trying to make it." Doesn't mean anything with regards to who will make the team necessarily, but at least gives some insight into style of play they're trying to achieve.

What I find really interesting is Andre Drummond. Cousins's lack of fit makes complete sense: he is a back-to-the-basket player who is less mobile than Davis or Plumlee but stronger than any domestic or international post player. But that isn't the genetic make-up of this team. They are athletic and long. Drummond is insanely athletic for a 5 and very long. His wingpsan is nearly 8 inches longer than Plumlee's and his standing reach is also longer. Furthermore, Drummon'd no step vertical is higher than Plumlee's (although Plumlee has the better max vertical). From a skills perspective, Drummond isn't a good scorer, but he is a phenom rebounder (13.2 rebounds in only 32 minutes. Wow!).

Drummond may not be as skilled as Plumlee, but he does possess more potential, athleticism, and rebounding ability. His D isn't that good (neither is Plumlee's. And Cousins's D is Jabari-esque), but no one with the exception of Davis has really good D amongst the big men.

Regardless, we know that Davis will probably lead the team in minutes played within the lack of insane talent at the 5 (and it's the only position that lacks insane talent).

kAzE
08-01-2014, 11:08 AM
What I find really interesting is Andre Drummond. Cousins's lack of fit makes complete sense: he is a back-to-the-basket player who is less mobile than Davis or Plumlee but stronger than any domestic or international post player. But that isn't the genetic make-up of this team. They are athletic and long. Drummond is insanely athletic for a 5 and very long. His wingpsan is nearly 8 inches longer than Plumlee's and his standing reach is also longer. Furthermore, Drummon'd no step vertical is higher than Plumlee's (although Plumlee has the better max vertical). From a skills perspective, Drummond isn't a good scorer, but he is a phenom rebounder (13.2 rebounds in only 32 minutes. Wow!).

Drummond may not be as skilled as Plumlee, but he does possess more potential, athleticism, and rebounding ability. His D isn't that good (neither is Plumlee's. And Cousins's D is Jabari-esque), but no one with the exception of Davis has really good D amongst the big men.

Regardless, we know that Davis will probably lead the team in minutes played within the lack of insane talent at the 5 (and it's the only position that lacks insane talent).

The big issue is that Davis is not going to be able to play anywhere close to 40 minutes, and will very likely be in foul trouble often. (Only 5 fouls before DQ in FIBA rules) This necessitates a backup center. Of the 3, I would actually say Mason is the most athletic and the most mobile. He's probably not as quick as Cousins, but he has Cousins beat in top end speed, vertical, and the ability to get up and down the floor possession after possession. FIBA basketball is higher paced than the NBA, and players need to be able to sustain themselves playing a full court, up and down tempo game. From an athletic standpoint, and as a former track athlete, Mason is an ideal center for FIBA basketball.

Drummond is a physical specimen with regards to his measurements, but in terms of run/jump athleticism, he is inferior to Mason. Part of the reason is that he's 270 pounds and built like a tank. I think the Windhorst article made it relatively clear that this camp is a trial run for Drummond for future iterations of the team. He's the youngest guy among the 20 in the camp (at age 20), so he's going to be back.

Cousins is the most talented offensively, and the most physically dominant of the 3, but his biggest weakness is lack of good judgement, in both basketball and with regards to his attitude. He's probably the poster child for a guy who doesn't know his own strengths and weaknesses. If the guy could figure that out, he could be the second coming of Tim Duncan, but he'd rather shoot 20 footers and try to take people off the dribble as if he were a point guard. He probably has the most to gain from this experience to be quite honest. If he could just humble himself enough to listen to what the coaching staff has to teach, he might just become a much better player.

I'm not taking Windhorst's article as hard fact, but I think it makes sense that the final spot will come down to MP2 and Cousins. I agree with the sentiment that the best 12 best players isn't necessarily the best 12 man team. I would definitely love to see Mason on the National team as a Duke and Mason fan, but it would definitely be a slap in the face to Cousins, who is clearly a more talented player. There would be some backlash, especially from UK fans, but I think Coach K has built up enough respect with USA basketball that not too many national media people would be outraged or anything. In the end, we're only talking about the backup center. We still have KD, Stephen Curry, and Anthony Davis. We'll be fine either way.

gurufrisbee
08-01-2014, 11:15 AM
It's also worth remembering that there is only team in the entire contest where the USA could actually need that much size to match up with them. Most of the time the other teams are rolling out smaller guys who also are vastly inferior in talent. The USA can afford to go with a "small" line up for us most of the time, because it's still bigger than most other teams. It's not 1992 where the entire world only had two or three NBA level talent guys, but it's still not like anyone (other than Spain) is rolling out a front line of 6'9, 6'10", and 6'11" that are all solid NBA guys. Remember back to our last two Gold Medals - we basically only went with three big men and the third one barely played (Boozer in 2006, Davis in 2010).

dukebluesincebirth
08-01-2014, 11:25 AM
Just flipping thru channels and see an interview with coach K and Kyrie coming up next on espn if anyone is interested. Pretty cool that they're together again, and a great learning opportunity for kyrie.

CDu
08-01-2014, 11:38 AM
What I find really interesting is Andre Drummond. Cousins's lack of fit makes complete sense: he is a back-to-the-basket player who is less mobile than Davis or Plumlee but stronger than any domestic or international post player. But that isn't the genetic make-up of this team. They are athletic and long. Drummond is insanely athletic for a 5 and very long. His wingpsan is nearly 8 inches longer than Plumlee's and his standing reach is also longer. Furthermore, Drummon'd no step vertical is higher than Plumlee's (although Plumlee has the better max vertical). From a skills perspective, Drummond isn't a good scorer, but he is a phenom rebounder (13.2 rebounds in only 32 minutes. Wow!).

Drummond may not be as skilled as Plumlee, but he does possess more potential, athleticism, and rebounding ability. His D isn't that good (neither is Plumlee's. And Cousins's D is Jabari-esque), but no one with the exception of Davis has really good D amongst the big men.

Regardless, we know that Davis will probably lead the team in minutes played within the lack of insane talent at the 5 (and it's the only position that lacks insane talent).

This is a good point. Drummond is, aside from shooting touch, better across the board than Plumlee. I don't buy the argument that Cousins doesn't fit in (in the international game a skilled physical big ALWAYS fits in). But even then, Drummond was picked ahead of Plumlee for a reason.

Remember: Mason was only added to the big group to allow a center to run with 5-man unit. There is a reason that Cousins and Drummond were on the list first.

kAzE
08-01-2014, 11:45 AM
This is a good point. Drummond is, aside from shooting touch, better across the board than Plumlee. I don't buy the argument that Cousins doesn't fit in (in the international game a skilled physical big ALWAYS fits in). But even then, Drimmond was picked ahead of Plumlee for a reason.

Eh . . I wouldn't say he's better across the board. Better rebounder, for sure, better shot blocker, definitely. Offensively, I'd give Mason the edge, and he's probably one of the few guys who Mason can beat in a free throw contest regularly. Also, as I mentioned before, Mason's physically more fit and is a better run/jump athlete. Also, Drummond is a foul machine, which is a bit of a handicap in FIBA basketball. Don't get me wrong though, if I was drafting an NBA team, I'd take Drummond pretty early. He's a franchise center. FIBA's just different.

Also, don't forget goaltending rules are different in FIBA. Once the ball hits the rim, it's up for grabs. Mason is a pretty bouncy dude, he could probably do some things with that.

CDu
08-01-2014, 11:48 AM
Eh . . I wouldn't say he's better across the board. Better rebounder, for sure, better shot blocker, definitely. Offensively, I'd give Mason the edge, and he's probably one of the few guys who Mason can beat in a free throw contest regularly. Also, Drummond is a foul machine, which is a bit of a handicap in FIBA basketball. Don't get me wrong though, if I was drafting an NBA team, I'd take Drummond pretty early. He's a franchise center. FIBA's just different.

Also, don't forget goaltending rules are different in FIBA. Mason is a pretty bouncy, he could probably do some things with that.

So can Drummond. Again, the only edge Mason has is shooting touch. But for a backup C on a team loaded with shooters, how important is that really?

sagegrouse
08-01-2014, 11:49 AM
Not to oversimplify things, but the DeMarcus Cousins I have seen over the last five years should not be representing the US of A.

CDu
08-01-2014, 11:55 AM
Not to oversimplify things, but the DeMarcus Cousins I have seen over the last five years should not be representing the US of A.

And if Team USA agreed with you, why would they keep inviting him back?

kAzE
08-01-2014, 11:55 AM
So can Drummond. Again, the only edge Mason has is shooting touch. But for a backup C on a team loaded with shooters, how important is that really?

Drummond's not as quick on his feet, weighing in at 280 pounds (I thought he was 270, but I just checked, and he's 280). At 236 pounds, Mason not only has a better vertical, but also the ability to get up for a 2nd jump before a much bigger man like Drummond can gather himself again. I'm just speculating, I don't have a clue why Mason is being considered over Drummond, but that's what I'm making of it.

CDu
08-01-2014, 11:59 AM
Drummond's not as quick on his feet, weighing in at 280 pounds (I thought he was 270, but I just checked, and he's 280). At 236 pounds, Mason not only has a better vertical, but also the ability to get up for a 2nd jump before a much bigger man like Drummond can gather himself again. I'm just speculating, I don't have a clue why Mason is being considered over Drummond, but that's what I'm making of it.

You are assuming that Mason really IS being considered over Drummond. Again, the only person I have seen suggesting this is Windhorst.

sagegrouse
08-01-2014, 12:01 PM
And if Team USA agreed with you, why would they keep inviting him back?

I didn't say Team USA agreed with me re Cousins, but perhaps Colangelo and K they are hoping for something like the conversion of St. Paul on the road to Damascus.

HaveFunExpectToWin
08-01-2014, 02:31 PM
The Cousins-Plumlee debate seems to resemble slightly the Shaq-Laettner debate from the original Dream Team.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-01-2014, 02:46 PM
The Cousins-Plumlee debate seems to resemble slightly the Shaq-Laettner debate from the original Dream Team.

Cousins is no Shaq. Not even 1992 Shaq. By a long shot.

tux
08-01-2014, 03:22 PM
Article today (espn?) stating that USA basketball could still add Kevin Love, if he was traded (or his status was resolved) before the official roster is submitted at the end of August. We all know that Aug. 23rd is the first day that Wiggins can be moved, so...

...is it possible that Colangelo is floating the Mason selection (as a better suited role player) only to swap Kevin Love in at the last minute? Since Mason is a K-guy and basically a rookie, much easier to drop Mason for Love than it would be to do that to another, veteran player...

No disrespect to Mason -- I'd love for him to get that shot, but that'd be the way to do it if you really wanted Love to make the trip to Spain.

kAzE
08-01-2014, 03:27 PM
Article today (espn?) stating that USA basketball could still add Kevin Love, if he was traded (or his status was resolved) before the official roster is submitted at the end of August. We all know that Aug. 23rd is the first day that Wiggins can be moved, so...

...is it possible that Colangelo is floating the Mason selection (as a better suited role player) only to swap Kevin Love in at the last minute? Since Mason is a K-guy and basically a rookie, much easier to drop Mason for Love than it would be to do that to another, veteran player...

No disrespect to Mason -- I'd love for him to get that shot, but that'd be the way to do it if you really wanted Love to make the trip to Spain.

I don't see it happening. If this happened, Love would make the team after completely skipping camp, and reneging on his previous commitment to be on the team. It just sends a bad message to younger players on the team and future team USA players.

CDu
08-01-2014, 03:32 PM
Cousins is no Shaq. Not even 1992 Shaq. By a long shot.

One might be justified in making a similar comment about Mason relative to Laettner.

Troublemaker
08-01-2014, 03:32 PM
This quote from Colangelo (http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/08/01/usa-basketball-showcase-big-for-roster-hopefuls/) shines some light on the MP2 vs Cousins debate:


For Colangelo, the Cousins/Plumlee decision is about continuity from the starters to the bench.

“If you want to play a certain style,” he said, “you need the personnel to play that way. Now, some guys don’t really fit that way, but if there’s enough reason to carry someone … we play differently when he’s in the game. You have to make an adjustment.”


If the USA decision-makers view the backup C role as someone who, for continuity's sake, will fly up and down the court, set screens, roll to the basket, catch lobs, hustle, and rebound -- basically be like Anthony Davis at a much lower level and without his elite defense -- it wouldn't be a major upset if Mason beats out Cousins.

Colangelo seems to be suggesting that USA would be willing to take Cousins, though, if he is great enough at his normal game that USA will adjust to him instead of the other way around.

So we'll see. I agree with others above that Mason beating out Drummond makes less sense, though. Unless it's just a maturity thing or experience thing since Mason, strange as this is to type, is 4 years older than Drummond and knows Coach K's system much better.

CDu
08-01-2014, 03:33 PM
I don't see it happening. If this happened, Love would make the team after completely skipping camp, and reneging on his previous commitment to be on the team. It just sends a bad message to younger players on the team and future team USA players.

I agree this would be unquestionably a worse message than taking Mason.

tommy
08-01-2014, 03:55 PM
-Jason "there are enough people involved in these decisions that I would hope folks would see this is not Duke favoritism if Plumlee makes the team" Evans

I agree with those who say this is wishful thinking at best, and "not gonna happen" at worst. I just listened for 10 minutes in the car to an NBA talk show on Sirius where they were discussing Team USA and some of the selection issues, and in the discussions of both the Plumlee/Cousins situation and the point guard choices (Kyrie/Lillard/Wall) there were at least four mentions, by both callers and the hosts, of factors such as "politics" and "who you know" being more important than "how good you are" and other very thinly-veiled references to K choosing a Duke guy over a more deserving non-Duke guy for this team. Without saying it in so many words, that's basically all they were talking about.

roywhite
08-01-2014, 04:08 PM
I agree with those who say this is wishful thinking at best, and "not gonna happen" at worst. I just listened for 10 minutes in the car to an NBA talk show on Sirius where they were discussing Team USA and some of the selection issues, and in the discussions of both the Plumlee/Cousins situation and the point guard choices (Kyrie/Lillard/Wall) there were at least four mentions, by both callers and the hosts, of factors such as "politics" and "who you know" being more important than "how good you are" and other very thinly-veiled references to K choosing a Duke guy over a more deserving non-Duke guy for this team. Without saying it in so many words, that's basically all they were talking about.

Ha. I guess Tarheel fans were lucky that the internet and sports talk radio was not prevalent in 1976 when El-Deano's Olympic team of 12 players included *4* from UNC.

sagegrouse
08-01-2014, 04:19 PM
Ha. I guess Tarheel fans were lucky that the internet and sports talk radio was not prevalent in 1976 when El-Deano's Olympic team of 12 players included *4* from UNC.

"$200, for Olympic Teams, Alex."

"Adrian Dantley, Ernie Grunfeld, Scott May and Phil Hubbard."

"Alex, which members of the 1976 US Olympic basketball team did not play in the ACC?"

tux
08-01-2014, 05:08 PM
I don't see it happening. If this happened, Love would make the team after completely skipping camp, and reneging on his previous commitment to be on the team. It just sends a bad message to younger players on the team and future team USA players.


I agree -- it would send a bad message. But, for some reason, the Love-can-still-make-the-roster is being floated by someone. Perhaps it's purely media-driven speculation, etc.


"Technically it is possible," Colangelo told the site following Day 4 of Team USA training camp in Las Vegas. "But I have to weigh all of the considerations if I were to look at that. Is it fair to the guys who are here putting in the time and effort? How do the teams think about that after the fact? I don't know. We'll see how it plays out."
Colangelo maintained that it's an option, but nothing is definite. "I know it's an option. I know it's possible that he could play, but we'll see," he said.

sagegrouse
08-01-2014, 05:33 PM
I agree -- it would send a bad message. But, for some reason, the Love-can-still-make-the-roster is being floated by someone. Perhaps it's purely media-driven speculation, etc.


"Technically it is possible," Colangelo told the site following Day 4 of Team USA training camp in Las Vegas. "But I have to weigh all of the considerations if I were to look at that. Is it fair to the guys who are here putting in the time and effort? How do the teams think about that after the fact? I don't know. We'll see how it plays out."
Colangelo maintained that it's an option, but nothing is definite. "I know it's an option. I know it's possible that he could play, but we'll see," he said.

Let me be the first to predict: If Kevin Love joins the USA FIBA roster at the end of August, it will be because one of the bigs has an injury. Maybe a hangnail? Sounds like a job for Mason, doesn't it?

Now that I think about it, I sense that, aha, the plot thickens! Probably 'cuz I have had to watch the scheming Shanahans in action in Washington for the past several years, I believe Mason is a strong candidate for the USA roster because he would far more willing to withdraw gracefully in favor of Kevin Love than would DeMarcus Cousins.

BD80
08-01-2014, 05:54 PM
Remember that Love is Lebron's personal choice for a teammate (and Love withdrawing from the National team is in furtherance of that goal). If Love wants to play for Team USA this year, I'm sure every effort will be made to accommodate Love, in anticipation of Love and Lebron playing together for Olympic Gold in 2016.

Love has already "paid his dues" for Team USA, training for the team in 2010 and 2012. In fact, it could be argued that bringing Love in, even at a late date, would greatly enhance the continuity of the squad from 2010 to 2012 to 2014 to 2016.

77devil
08-01-2014, 05:57 PM
One might be justified in making a similar comment about Mason relative to Laettner.

Might be?


I agree with those who say this is wishful thinking at best, and "not gonna happen" at worst. I just listened for 10 minutes in the car to an NBA talk show on Sirius where they were discussing Team USA and some of the selection issues, and in the discussions of both the Plumlee/Cousins situation and the point guard choices (Kyrie/Lillard/Wall) there were at least four mentions, by both callers and the hosts, of factors such as "politics" and "who you know" being more important than "how good you are" and other very thinly-veiled references to K choosing a Duke guy over a more deserving non-Duke guy for this team. Without saying it in so many words, that's basically all they were talking about.

Jason Whitlock and Dan Le Batard left nothing thinly veiled on PTI today. Then again, it was Whitlock and Le Batard, blowhards of the first order

SilkyJ
08-01-2014, 06:34 PM
What I find really interesting is Andre Drummond. Cousins's lack of fit makes complete sense: he is a back-to-the-basket player who is less mobile than Davis or Plumlee but stronger than any domestic or international post player. But that isn't the genetic make-up of this team. They are athletic and long. Drummond is insanely athletic for a 5 and very long. His wingpsan is nearly 8 inches longer than Plumlee's and his standing reach is also longer. Furthermore, Drummon'd no step vertical is higher than Plumlee's (although Plumlee has the better max vertical). From a skills perspective, Drummond isn't a good scorer, but he is a phenom rebounder (13.2 rebounds in only 32 minutes. Wow!).

Drummond may not be as skilled as Plumlee, but he does possess more potential, athleticism, and rebounding ability. His D isn't that good (neither is Plumlee's. And Cousins's D is Jabari-esque), but no one with the exception of Davis has really good D amongst the big men.

Regardless, we know that Davis will probably lead the team in minutes played within the lack of insane talent at the 5 (and it's the only position that lacks insane talent).

Lots of posts re Drummond v plumlee and no mention of Drummond's FT%. Dude shoots 35-40%. He's basically the worst FT in the league! I think that's his death knell.

left_hook_lacey
08-01-2014, 06:48 PM
Might be?



Jason Whitlock and Dan Le Batard left nothing thinly veiled on PTI today. Then again, it was Whitlock and Le Batard, blowhards of the first order

I actually respect Le Batard in most respects. He gives good common sense opinions most of the time. I don't agree with every opinion he has, but I respect his point-of-view most of the time.

Whitlock on the other hand, has more than once used his column as a soap box to turn a common sense debate about a certain topic into a racially dividing rant that doesn't even makes sense and reeks of desperation for readers. What's worse is that he rarely if ever offers any evidence to support his radical claims. I have 0 respect for that guy.

I'm suprised he still gets invited on the ESPN "shows"

BD80
08-01-2014, 06:56 PM
Tonight's game will be an interesting "test" vis a vis MPII vs Boogie Cousins. They are on opposing teams. Will Boogie try to prove he belongs by scoring on his own?
And would Mason step up to the challenge in defending Cousins and prove he is the better choice? Or will Cousins try to show he can play within the system?

kAzE
08-01-2014, 07:06 PM
Official scrimmage rosters:

Blue team:

43 — Stephen Curry, 6-3 G, Golden State Warriors
42 — Anthony Davis, 6-10, F/C, New Orleans Pelicans
45 — DeMar DeRozan, 6-7, G, Toronto Raptors
33 — Kenneth Faried, 6-8, F, Denver Nuggets
29 — Paul George, 6-8, G/F, Indiana Pacers
24 — Gordon Hayward, 6-8, F, Utah Jazz
39— Kyle Korver, 6-7, G/F, Atlanta Hawks
75 — Mason Plumlee, 6-11, F, Brooklyn Nets
41 — Derrick Rose, 6-3, G, Chicago Bulls
30 — John Wall, 6-4, G, Washington Wizards

Coach: Monty Williams, New Orleans Pelicans

White Team:

28 — Bradley Beal, 6-5, G, Washington Wizards
36 — DeMarcus Cousins, 6-11, C, Sacramento Kings
25 — Andre Drummond, 6-10, C, Detroit Pistons
52 — Kevin Durant, 6-9, F, Oklahoma City Thunder
32 — James Harden, 6-5, G, Houston Rockets
23 — Kyrie Irving, 6-3, G, Cleveland Cavaliers
22 — Damian Lillard, 6-3, G, Trail Blazers
51 — Paul Millsap, 6-8, F, Atlanta Hawks
34 — Chandler Parsons, 6-9, F, Dallas Mavericks
21 — Klay Thompson, 6-7, G, Golden State Warriors

Coach: Tom Thibodeau, Chicago Bulls

70% of sportsnation on ESPN would rather have the white team, but I think the defensive dominance of Davis and George win out. I'm taking the blue team in this one. The white team has KD, but I think it will be difficult for Kyrie, Harden, and Lillard to stop Rose and Curry on the perimeter.

FerryFor50
08-01-2014, 09:30 PM
Mason is actually holding his own out there. Not overmatched.

Still likely won't make the team, but cool to see him out there.

kAzE
08-01-2014, 09:35 PM
George went down with what looked like a serious lower leg fracture in the 4th quarter of the scrimmage. Very, very gruesome injury to watch. Hope he's okay....

FerryFor50
08-01-2014, 09:35 PM
Paul George just broke the @#$% out of his leg. Like, snapped the lower part in half. Stupid play... challenged a layup he had no chance to get in a scrimmage, landed against the goal stanchion and... ouch.

Feel bad for the kid.

FerryFor50
08-01-2014, 09:39 PM
That said, hopefully some thought goes into making the stanchion either go away or moved further away from the court. Way too risky to have it that close.

Newton_14
08-01-2014, 09:40 PM
George went down with what looked like a serious lower leg fracture in the 4th quarter of the scrimmage. Very, very gruesome injury to watch. Hope he's okay....

Very sad. I had just turned it over to catch the end of the game. Did not get to see it and evidently it was Kevin Ware-esque as they have chosen not to show it again. I hate it for George. Hopefully he can make a full recovery, but it appears initiatly at least, he has a long road ahead.

kAzE
08-01-2014, 09:42 PM
Damn it, this really sucks. George was really breaking out as a star in the league, one of the few true 2-way superstars in the league. Needless to say, this is a huge loss for USA basketball, but more importantly, a huge setback in his career. Wish him a speedy recovery.

Newton_14
08-01-2014, 09:55 PM
Damn it, this really sucks. George was really breaking out as a star in the league, one of the few true 2-way superstars in the league. Needless to say, this is a huge loss for USA basketball, but more importantly, a huge setback in his career. Wish him a speedy recovery.

Agree. His career is the most important part by far, but it is a blow to the US team as well. Even on the stretcher after stabilizing, his right foot was laying almost flat to the right side with the gurney. Turns your stomach. Wall was describing the angle to Coach K with his hands walking in the tunnel back to the locker room.

K had gone to mid-court with the team after they wheeled George out alerting the crowd that out of respect for George and his family they were cancelling the remainder of the game.

g-money
08-01-2014, 10:16 PM
I hate to say it, but if it's as bad as it appears, this is the kind of injury that could affect professional participation in future international basketball events.

Best of luck to George, his family, and the US team.

gep
08-01-2014, 10:20 PM
I hate to say it, but if it's as bad as it appears, this is the kind of injury that could affect professional participation in future international basketball events.

Best of luck to George, his family, and the US team.

Yes... this was discussed on the radio today. I wonder if it get's to the point of putting in the contract that "outside the NBA competitive games cannot be played"... kinda like what the did with motorcycles, and whatever else. :confused:

roywhite
08-01-2014, 10:31 PM
George's catastrophic contact with the basket stanchion gives me a new appreciation of dropping the basket and backboard from the ceiling like it is done in Cameron.

Bluegrassdevil1
08-01-2014, 10:48 PM
Obviously no correlation or true connection, but it sure is bizarre that Coach K was involved in the last two serious basketball leg injuries (Ware, George).

"George's catastrophic contact with the basket stanchion gives me a new appreciation of dropping the basket and backboard from the ceiling like it is done in Cameron."

Truer words cannot be spoken; hurrah for old gyms!

Newton_14
08-01-2014, 10:51 PM
George's catastrophic contact with the basket stanchion gives me a new appreciation of dropping the basket and backboard from the ceiling like it is done in Cameron.

Update: Just saw the replay on Sportscenter and I played it back in slo-mo/freeze. Just as gruesome as Ware's. George land sideways/perpendicular to the baseline, his right foot/leg extended as the landing foot. The right side of his foot catches the stanchion and the left side of his foot catches the floor at the same time in a wedge. The torgue is just too much and the leg snaps right above his ankle.. and I'll stop there as you get the picture.

Just very gruesome/freak accident/sad kind of deal. I feel for the young man and I love watching him play. Praying he can somehow make it all the way back. The International Rules apparently place the stanchion closer to the baseline than does the NBA rule. I imagine leagues at every major level, college and Pro are about to reassess their rules on distance from the stanchion to the baseline.

If the stanchion is 5 inches further away from the baseline, we ain't having this discussion. As physically gifted as these athletes are, the rules need to account accurately for how far they can travel while in the air.

Bluegrassdevil1
08-01-2014, 10:55 PM
Update: Just saw the replay on Sportscenter and I played it back in slo-mo/freeze. Just as gruesome as Ware's. George land sideways/perpendicular to the baseline, his right foot/leg extended as the landing foot. The right side of his foot catches the stanchion and the left side of his foot catches the floor at the same time in a wedge. The torgue is just too much and the leg snaps right above his ankle.. and I'll stop there as you get the picture.

Just very gruesome/freak accident/sad kind of deal. I feel for the young man and I love watching him play. Praying he can somehow make it all the way back. The International Rules apparently place the stanchion closer to the baseline than does the NBA rule. I imagine leagues at every major level, college and Pro are about to reassess their rules on distance from the stanchion to the baseline.

If the stanchion is 5 inches further away from the baseline, we ain't having this discussion. As physically gifted as these athletes are, the rules need to account accurately for how far they can travel while in the air.


It is likely important to remember that Ware's bone was visible, and I would suspect that is more terrifying for an individual, a young person especially, to see protruding from their body.

kAzE
08-01-2014, 11:45 PM
George was just cool as could be through the whole ordeal. You gotta give him props for some crazy toughness. When it first happened, I thought nothing of it because he wasn't really writhing in agony or crying out in pain. It wasn't until they panned towards the other players when I realized how serious it was. Just brutal, but my respect for Paul George went way up tonight. Dude has got some major stones.

Jim3k
08-02-2014, 12:08 AM
hurrah for old gyms!

Well, old gyms often used stanchion supports not that different than the one in Vegas--including the Duke (now Cameron) Indoor Stadium. In this Youtube clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0RroAH4vwU) of the 1961 Heyman-Brown altercation, you can (almost) see how heavy ours were and how heavily padded they needed to be.

kAzE
08-02-2014, 12:18 AM
I'm still just stunned over the whole thing. It's mind boggling that most Duke fans watching tonight's game have now been through something like this twice now with the Kevin Ware injury as well. I hope we never have to watch something like this again. Last time, I honestly couldn't even sleep that night, and not even just because we lost the game, mostly because of the injury.

The only positive that you can take from it is that Kevin Ware, now 17 months removed from that day, says he's 110% physically now. I'm no MD, but I guess that a bone injury, even one as major as this, has little to no long term impact on an athlete's ability to play at their pre-injury level of performance, at least relative to a major ligament tear. Still, everyone's different, and every injury is different, so you just gotta pray that he gets ALL the way back, like Ware has. But even if he does, it's still a devastating blow for George and the Pacers. Guy just turned 24, and was entering his prime. Now he's going to be sitting out probably a whole season rehabbing.

I guess another small positive is that this will be something for the rest of the team to rally around. These guys were all close friends. Harden and Durant were playing George 1 on 1 for like an hour after every practice this week. Kyrie was bawling on his dad's shoulder after the game. It's probably not a difficult assumption to make that this team is playing for USA and for Paul George now.

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-02-2014, 06:48 AM
One might be justified in making a similar comment about Mason relative to Laettner.

Decided it was best not even to address that side of the equation.

Huge bummer for George. Seriously hope the young man makes a full recovery.

Huge blow to Team USA - I had a nervous feeling regarding this tournament already. Something like this will either rattle a team to the core, or galvanize them.

NashvilleDevil
08-02-2014, 06:51 AM
Decided it was best not even to address that side of the equation.

Huge bummer for George. Seriously hope the young man makes a full recovery.

Huge blow to Team USA - I had a nervous feeling regarding this tournament already. Something like this will either rattle a team to the core, or galvanize them.

I'm guessing this galvanizes them.

theAlaskanBear
08-02-2014, 07:49 AM
Obviously no correlation or true connection, but it sure is bizarre that Coach K was involved in the last two serious basketball leg injuries (Ware, George).

"George's catastrophic contact with the basket stanchion gives me a new appreciation of dropping the basket and backboard from the ceiling like it is done in Cameron."

Truer words cannot be spoken; hurrah for old gyms!

Even stranger when you consider Duke connections with Jay Williams, and Shaun Livingston. Both were cases where amputation was considered.

George's injury is gruesome, but I heard there is the potential for a clean break. If it didn't do too much damage to his ligaments, there may not be a lot of long-term impact, aside from the recovery time. Obviously hoping for the best case scenario...

HK Dukie
08-02-2014, 10:46 AM
It is likely important to remember that Ware's bone was visible, and I would suspect that is more terrifying for an individual, a young person especially, to see protruding from their body.

Based on the documented accounts of blood on the floor last night, I would surmise the bone did puncture the skin perhaps protrude from the body. So I do believe these incidents are very similar.

CDu
08-02-2014, 10:55 AM
Just terrible news. I feel sick to my stomach for George. Best wishes to him for a full and speedy recovery. Though I fear it won't be speedy, and who knows if it will be full.

I echo thise of you who suspect this may have a negative impact on participation moving forward. I certainly suspect that this scrimmage may be scrapped moving forward. Just an incredibly, sad and unfortunate turn of events for everyone involved (obviously most so for George). It completely soured what had been an unquestionably positive week with the feel-good etory of Rose's successful return to action.

CDu
08-02-2014, 11:03 AM
Based on the documented accounts of blood on the floor last night, I would surmise the bone did puncture the skin perhaps protrude from the body. So I do believe these incidents are very similar.

Yup. The surgeon confirmed it was an open fracture of the tibia and fibula. In other words, basically the exact same injury as Ware's.

mo.st.dukie
08-02-2014, 11:45 AM
Just terrible news. I feel sick to my stomach for George. Best wishes to him for a full and speedy recovery. Though I fear it won't be speedy, and who knows if it will be full.

I echo thise of you who suspect this may have a negative impact on participation moving forward. I certainly suspect that this scrimmage may be scrapped moving forward. Just an incredibly, sad and unfortunate turn of events for everyone involved (obviously most so for George). It completely soured what had been an unquestionably positive week with the feel-good etory of Rose's successful return to action.

They have these scrimmages almost every year. They had one last year, the one where Kyrie went off for 23 points, and that wasn't even a summer where they had a competitive event. Seems kind of silly to scrap it because of one injury that could have happened in a practice, exhibition, the actual World Cup games or Olympics, NBA preseason training camps, NBA exhibitions, NBA All-Star game, NBA regular season games, NBA postseason games, etc.

Larry Bird said they still support USA basketball because something like this could happen anytime anywhere. People want to blame the distance between the stanchion and baseline but it's not like that was the only place to have that distance and players aren't suffering that injury all over the place. If they moved the stanchion back another 10 inches all it would take is a player getting pushed with greater force to come down 10 inches further back and have the same thing happen then everyone would want the stanchion moved 20 inches back. Or you could have no stanchion like in Cameron then a player will have the same thing happen just by jump up and coming down awkwardly on the floor like Kevin Ware did with nothing involved except the hardwood floor. It was just a freak accident with no rhyme or reason that could happen anytime anywhere, unfortunately that's the world we live in.

You can try to control it, take the necessary precautions and reduce some of the risk, but you're never going to eliminate the threat of injury, even serious injury unless if you simply don't play the game at all. Who would want to live in a boring world where we don't want to play sports because we are too afraid someone might get hurt? It's like the football players, we can do all the medical research, change the helmets, change the rules, have better education and training but at the end of the day they play a violent sport that has a risk of serious, sometimes life threatening injury, that's just the way it is.

Olympic Fan
08-02-2014, 11:54 AM
Rationally, this should make no difference going forward as far as participation in the national team. Guys play basketball all summer. Something like this could have happened in the summer league or in a pickup game. It could happen in a preseason game, a regular season game or a playoff game. There's nothing about the fact that this was a scrimmage for the national team that makes this injury particularly likely.

Of course, we know that there are a lot of irrational people and I fear it will discourage future participants. It shouldn't ... but it will.

-jk
08-02-2014, 06:50 PM
Heh. UK folks are worried 'bout Mason, trying to justify Cousins: http://www.aseaofblue.com/2014/8/2/5957913/demarcus-cousins-vs-mason-plumlee

-jk

kAzE
08-02-2014, 07:04 PM
Heh. UK folks are worried 'bout Mason, trying to justify Cousins: http://www.aseaofblue.com/2014/8/2/5957913/demarcus-cousins-vs-mason-plumlee

-jk

I love how the comparison conveniently leaves out all stats in which Mason is better. First of all, it should be a per x minutes comparison, since it's comparing a starter vs, a backup, so any volume based stats would obviously favor a starter. They put FT%, but left out FG% . . . Mason shoots 20% higher from the field. He also turns the ball over much less. I guess those stats aren't important enough to mention.

I honestly hope Mason makes it over Cousins, just so we can bask in the BBN rage.

BD80
08-02-2014, 08:55 PM
The whole MPII v Boogie debate kind of misses the point, and the use of stats completely misses the point. If you were to ask Mason what his role is, he would reply: "to make his teammates better." Right now, it doesn't matter if he makes the final cut, all that matters is making the team as ready as possible to win the FIBA World Cup. I'll bet Boogie doesn't feel that way. Ky fans certainly don't understand that concept.

The amusing thing is that Mason's mindset is more valuable for the final "big" slot than all the stats Boogie has compiled.

roywhite
08-02-2014, 09:44 PM
Mike Krzyzewski and Paul George (https://twitter.com/Mamba_Insider/status/495735143370604544/photo/1)

JasonEvans
08-03-2014, 08:24 AM
There is a pretty loud chorus of folks saying that George's injury will be the end of NBA stars playing in the Olympics and other international competitions (at least for the US). In the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/sports/basketball/pacers-paul-george-has-surgery-after-badly-injuring-leg.html?_r=0)Mark Cuban said:


"We are so stupid that we are willing to commit what amounts to more than a billion dollars in salaries to help the Olympics line their pockets."

It is worth noting that the NBA and the owners actually do make money off Team USA. They have an agreement with USA Basketball that gives them a pretty healthy percentage of jersey sales and other ancillary income that comes from Team USA using NBA stars. The only folks who do not make any money off these international tournaments are the players, who (I believe) are no paid a dime for participating.

Still, regardless of the fact that this injury could have happened anywhere, it is going to be hard to convince NBA owners to let players play in serious off-season tournaments going forward.

Adrian Wojnarowski tweeted (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/495436105752526849):

Owners and GMs united tonight: Paul George injury could be tipping point for use of stars in international play. "Game-changer," GM told me.

And ESPN's Mark Jones tweeted (https://twitter.com/MarkJonesESPN/statuses/495441965735886848):

Kevin Love didn't play because of the possibility of what happened to Paul George.This will be a turning point.No more NBA stars in FIBA.$$$

I am sad to say that I really fear this will be a game changer. I won't be at all surprised if we see D Leaguers representing the US in the next Olympics. It will be interesting to see if international NBA stars will risk the ire of owners by playing for their countries at the same time the US is keeping our best off the courts.

-Jason "I wonder if Lebron or some other NBA stars will step up and demand to play -- that voice could be a big counterpoint to the NBA owners/GMs arguing against it" Evans

CameronBornAndBred
08-03-2014, 08:38 AM
It's an understandable, but stupid, attitude. Will they ban them from playing pick up games and summer leagues too? Off season injuries happen all the time, this one just happened to be on a larger stage.

BD80
08-03-2014, 11:43 AM
There is a pretty loud chorus of folks saying that George's injury will be the end of NBA stars playing in the Olympics and other international competitions (at least for the US). In the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/sports/basketball/pacers-paul-george-has-surgery-after-badly-injuring-leg.html?_r=0)Mark Cuban said:



It is worth noting that the NBA and the owners actually do make money off Team USA. They have an agreement with USA Basketball that gives them a pretty healthy percentage of jersey sales and other ancillary income that comes from Team USA using NBA stars. The only folks who do not make any money off these international tournaments are the players, who (I believe) are no paid a dime for participating.

Still, regardless of the fact that this injury could have happened anywhere, it is going to be hard to convince NBA owners to let players play in serious off-season tournaments going forward.

Adrian Wojnarowski tweeted (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/495436105752526849):


And ESPN's Mark Jones tweeted (https://twitter.com/MarkJonesESPN/statuses/495441965735886848):


I am sad to say that I really fear this will be a game changer. I won't be at all surprised if we see D Leaguers representing the US in the next Olympics. It will be interesting to see if international NBA stars will risk the ire of owners by playing for their countries at the same time the US is keeping our best off the courts.

-Jason "I wonder if Lebron or some other NBA stars will step up and demand to play -- that voice could be a big counterpoint to the NBA owners/GMs arguing against it" Evans

I think the impact will be much greater on the 2018 FIBA world cup than the upcoming Olympics. I think Lebron and KG will want to get one more Gold medal. After that, good luck to Coach K's successor.

This will raise an interesting collective bargaining issue. In extending max contract offers or qualifying offers or matching offers, what is the effect of a provision prohibiting FIBA or Olympic play?

kAzE
08-03-2014, 12:01 PM
I think the impact will be much greater on the 2018 FIBA world cup than the upcoming Olympics. I think Lebron and KG will want to get one more Gold medal. After that, good luck to Coach K's successor.

This will raise an interesting collective bargaining issue. In extending max contract offers or qualifying offers or matching offers, what is the effect of a provision prohibiting FIBA or Olympic play?

You obviously meant KD . . but it was fun to think about a 40 year old Kevin Garnett on team USA :)

Hey, at least he has absolutely nothing to lose if he got hurt.

Aside from that, I agree, I think the guys will be back for 1 more go. These guys love Coach K, and Coach K loves coaching them. I know for sure Kyrie will want to have 1 more chance to play for him, and I wouldn't be surprised if LeBron, KD, and even Paul George come back for Coach K's last Olympics.

After that, no Colangelo, no Coach K . . . it might get ugly.

arnie
08-03-2014, 12:03 PM
There is a pretty loud chorus of folks saying that George's injury will be the end of NBA stars playing in the Olympics and other international competitions (at least for the US). In the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/03/sports/basketball/pacers-paul-george-has-surgery-after-badly-injuring-leg.html?_r=0)Mark Cuban said:



It is worth noting that the NBA and the owners actually do make money off Team USA. They have an agreement with USA Basketball that gives them a pretty healthy percentage of jersey sales and other ancillary income that comes from Team USA using NBA stars. The only folks who do not make any money off these international tournaments are the players, who (I believe) are no paid a dime for participating.

Still, regardless of the fact that this injury could have happened anywhere, it is going to be hard to convince NBA owners to let players play in serious off-season tournaments going forward.

Adrian Wojnarowski tweeted (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/495436105752526849):


And ESPN's Mark Jones tweeted (https://twitter.com/MarkJonesESPN/statuses/495441965735886848):


I am sad to say that I really fear this will be a game changer. I won't be at all surprised if we see D Leaguers representing the US in the next Olympics. It will be interesting to see if international NBA stars will risk the ire of owners by playing for their countries at the same time the US is keeping our best off the courts.

-Jason "I wonder if Lebron or some other NBA stars will step up and demand to play -- that voice could be a big counterpoint to the NBA owners/GMs arguing against it" Evans
This post and collection of quotes is just another "sky is falling" reaction. Mark Cuban doesn't speak for everyone, particularly for owners that will give more than 10 minutes thought to the injury. Life is full of unknown risks and I don't see putting players under a dome a reasonable option.

BD80
08-03-2014, 01:11 PM
You obviously meant KD . . but it was fun to think about a 40 year old Kevin Garnett on team USA :)

Hey, at least he has absolutely nothing to lose if he got hurt. ...

He'd almost be so old he couldn't even type a two letter designation correctly :o


This post and collection of quotes is just another "sky is falling" reaction. Mark Cuban doesn't speak for everyone, particularly for owners that will give more than 10 minutes thought to the injury. Life is full of unknown risks and I don't see putting players under a dome a reasonable option.

It's not just the owners. Think about the players looking for their second contract or for their first real max deal. George has the security of having just signed a 5 yr $90 mil deal. Guys who are in the last year or 2 of a contract might think twice.

Dev11
08-03-2014, 01:22 PM
Don't the players play basketball all summer anyway? As far as unpaid court time goes, what's better than USA ball, where they play against good competition (don't develop lazy habits), have access to a proper training staff, and are keeping their "brands" up all summer? I see Cuban's point, but I disagree with his conclusion.

SupaDave
08-03-2014, 04:11 PM
Quite frankly, the USA basketball concept has become entrenched - like 80 percent of our roster is a USA basketball participant. The program ain't going nowhere bc there's no way we will sit around and let other countries whup us again...

Newton_14
08-03-2014, 07:24 PM
He'd almost be so old he couldn't even type a two letter designation correctly :o



It's not just the owners. Think about the players looking for their second contract or for their first real max deal. George has the security of having just signed a 5 yr $90 mil deal. Guys who are in the last year or 2 of a contract might think twice.


Don't the players play basketball all summer anyway? As far as unpaid court time goes, what's better than USA ball, where they play against good competition (don't develop lazy habits), have access to a proper training staff, and are keeping their "brands" up all summer? I see Cuban's point, but I disagree with his conclusion.

I don't know BD you could make Cuban's point (which I contend is weak) no matter who we send no? Can't send college kids cause they might get hurt and jeopardize their chance to make the NBA and get that life changing money. Or, we can't send our top High Schoolers, cause they might get hurt and jeopardize their chance to get the college scholarship.

I am with Kaze and others on this. You can't use fear of injury to justify not sending our best Pro's. Paul George could have just as easily suffered that exact same injury stepping in a hole in his backyard (dont laugh. A guy I went to high school with suffered the exact same injury jogging down a hill that led to our pony league baseball field at 15 yrs old. Never even made it to the dugout. Was out two years).

It was a freak injury. After thinking about it, is it possible anyone else on the teams that landed at that exact same place/angle bounce off the stanchion with no injury at all? I actually like Cuban and on some issues he has good points. On this issue he comes off like a blowhard with an axe to grind against the IOC.

These guys are going to play basketball. It's what they do. When we played High School baseball our coach had a rule that pickup basketball was banned until after the last game. About half of us broke that rule everyday. We would leave practice or even a game, head to one of the area courts and play pickup for 2 hours every night.


I think it would be crazy to use this incident as cause to stop sending our best guys.

Bluegrassdevil1
08-03-2014, 07:42 PM
Concrete examples of our "fears" is often a igniting force, especially in media and athletics, and no matter what one's worries are or are not, once a concrete example of a "worst fear" actually occurs (George's injury), individuals tend to lean towards being overly cautious, opposed to remaining dealt into the figurative poker table; think TSA, seat belt laws, etc.

If I am Pacers season ticker holder, a team with few superstars in its history, I am wholly against future stars being on the team. If I am Herb Simon, there is no way I want any future star to miss action for my product due to an injury suffered as part of someone's else's.

If one of my sales force suffers a neurological injury during a charity event, which would put that individual out of work for me for many months, I am making it quite clear that no employee shall partake in future events for that charity. George is the employee of the Pacers, the league and networks, and now that employee cannot contribute to helping any of them gain capital, and capital is the ultimate goal of anyone connected to professional sports.

I am curious about the debate of future NBA employees being a part of the national team if a huge star had suffered the George injury. If Durant had gone down (which would be horrible for any player or individual), I suspect the rancor amongst owners and Adam Silver himself would be quite intense.

mo.st.dukie
08-03-2014, 08:24 PM
Adrian Wojnarowski tweeted (https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/495436105752526849):


And ESPN's Mark Jones tweeted (https://twitter.com/MarkJonesESPN/statuses/495441965735886848):


I am sad to say that I really fear this will be a game changer. I won't be at all surprised if we see D Leaguers representing the US in the next Olympics. It will be interesting to see if international NBA stars will risk the ire of owners by playing for their countries at the same time the US is keeping our best off the courts.

-Jason "I wonder if Lebron or some other NBA stars will step up and demand to play -- that voice could be a big counterpoint to the NBA owners/GMs arguing against it" Evans


Love's situation was a legitimate reason IMO. His contract his up next year, he has no long term deal, and especially with the trade rumors if he got injured like this, was out the entire season, he loses his value and doesn't have a contract at the end of the season. George, on the other hand, has a long term deal in place.

Players with uncertain contract situations should probably not play. But guys who have all that stuff taken care of and don't have any family obligations, they should play because injuries can happen in offseason training, pick up games, or preseason games.

kAzE
08-03-2014, 09:16 PM
I don't know BD you could make Cuban's point (which I contend is weak) no matter who we send no? Can't send college kids cause they might get hurt and jeopardize their chance to make the NBA and get that life changing money. Or, we can't send our top High Schoolers, cause they might get hurt and jeopardize their chance to get the college scholarship.

I am with Kaze and others on this. You can't use fear of injury to justify not sending our best Pro's. Paul George could have just as easily suffered that exact same injury stepping in a hole in his backyard (dont laugh. A guy I went to high school with suffered the exact same injury jogging down a hill that led to our pony league baseball field at 15 yrs old. Never even made it to the dugout. Was out two years).

It was a freak injury. After thinking about it, is it possible anyone else on the teams that landed at that exact same place/angle bounce off the stanchion with no injury at all? I actually like Cuban and on some issues he has good points. On this issue he comes off like a blowhard with an axe to grind against the IOC.

These guys are going to play basketball. It's what they do. When we played High School baseball our coach had a rule that pickup basketball was banned until after the last game. About half of us broke that rule everyday. We would leave practice or even a game, head to one of the area courts and play pickup for 2 hours every night.


I think it would be crazy to use this incident as cause to stop sending our best guys.

Actually, I was thinking about this as well. Both Kevin Ware and Paul George are rather long and lean players with relatively skinny limbs. George is 6'9", weighing just 220 pounds. If that was Boogie Cousins, I'm willing to bet his tibia would have held just fine, since it's probably a good half inch thicker (or more) in diameter, even with the extra weight of his body. He probably would have come away from that without even a twisted ankle. In contrast, a shorter, stockier guy like Harden or Beal might have been able to absorb the contact with the stanchion with a bit less force, since they weigh less, and have their weight more fully distributed through those bones. Perhaps George was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong bone structure?

CameronBornAndBred
08-03-2014, 10:16 PM
I am sad to say that I really fear this will be a game changer. I won't be at all surprised if we see D Leaguers representing the US in the next Olympics. It will be interesting to see if international NBA stars will risk the ire of owners by playing for their countries at the same time the US is keeping our best off the courts.



"It's important to note the [improvement] many of our players have made in terms of ability, leadership and passion for the game by playing for their home countries. Injuries can happen any place at any time. The experiences our players have enjoyed by participating in their national teams, however, are ones that are unique and special in almost every other way. At this point, I don't anticipate a major shift in the NBA's participation in international competitions." --Adam Silver
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11305215/adam-silver-says-nba-discuss-merits-stars-playing-international-tournaments

gep
08-03-2014, 10:29 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11305215/adam-silver-says-nba-discuss-merits-stars-playing-international-tournaments

In the same article linked...

**************
In a statement issued Saturday, Pacers president Larry Bird said: "We still support USA Basketball and believe in the NBA's goals of exposing our game, our teams and players worldwide. This is an extremely unfortunate injury that occurred on a highly-visible stage but could also have occurred anytime, anywhere."
**************

In contrast to Mark Cuban.

ICP
08-03-2014, 10:48 PM
The way I read Cuban's point was that the owners should get a much larger share of the profits from int'l competitions because they are incurring the risks. He even mentioned having a World Cup separate from FIBA. He seemed most angry at the all the money being made from these competitions without the players or the NBA owners getting almost anything.

NSDukeFan
08-04-2014, 06:52 AM
The way I read Cuban's point was that the owners should get a much larger share of the profits from int'l competitions because they are incurring the risks. He even mentioned having a World Cup separate from FIBA. He seemed most angry at the all the money being made from these competitions without the players or the NBA owners getting almost anything.

Because the owners are really struggling and the worldwide growth in basketball hasn't helped NBA franchise values. Maybe it's just a coincidence, and I'm sure there are other factors involved (Popovich's Spurs team play and style of play, D'Antoni's Suns, analytics, etc.), but the level of play in the NBA seems to have improved since Colangelo and coach K took over. I think USA's focus on team over individual, having USA's best players compete and learn from each other has been a factor in the NBA being an improved league. I also think international play has helped the confidence and NBA play of many international players (e.g. Pau Gasol, Patty Mills, Argentina's players,etc.). Does Cuban really want to hurt one of the great driver's of the NBA's success?

Troublemaker
08-04-2014, 09:20 AM
Huge blow for the USA here. The three things we couldn't duplicate with a substitute player were Durant's scoring, Davis' interior defense, and George's perimeter defense / defensive versatility. That's why those three were looking like the only lock starters, and Coach K was trying to select supporting players and a rotation that complimented those three guys the best. Now one of them is gone. It's somewhat back to the drawing board here for the USA coaches.

I'm not sure who the next best wing defender on the roster is. Klay Thompson?

Anyway, hoping George recovers as quickly as possible for this injury and eventually gets back to being the player he was.

FerryFor50
08-04-2014, 09:40 AM
Actually, I was thinking about this as well. Both Kevin Ware and Paul George are rather long and lean players with relatively skinny limbs. George is 6'9", weighing just 220 pounds. If that was Boogie Cousins, I'm willing to bet his tibia would have held just fine, since it's probably a good half inch thicker (or more) in diameter, even with the extra weight of his body. He probably would have come away from that without even a twisted ankle. In contrast, a shorter, stockier guy like Harden or Beal might have been able to absorb the contact with the stanchion with a bit less force, since they weigh less, and have their weight more fully distributed through those bones. Perhaps George was just in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong bone structure?

Perhaps his tibia would have held up, but what about his knee ligaments?

Recall that the reason Nerlens Noel did not play last season was because of the injury to his knee after hitting the stanchion...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFsUXzSYh9w

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that moving it further back wouldn't help because you'd still run the risk of someone running into it, but wouldn't that risk be greatly diminished just by moving it back a foot or two? If Noel had an extra foot or two, perhaps he doesn't hurt himself.

I've always thought they have people and things WAY too close to the court - camera men, scorers tables, etc. Then you have the gyms that have RAISED floors (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/15122-elevated-courts-a-good-thing-for-ncaa-basketball) (like Vanderbilt (http://www.vanderbilt.edu/commodores/images/Gym1.jpg)). While Vandy does have a good set up in terms of distance, the raised floor can be fairly dangerous if the edges aren't far enough away, which VT's Erick Green (http://www.mndaily.com/2011/12/01/gophers-hold-beat-virginia-tech) found out.

kAzE
08-04-2014, 10:58 AM
Perhaps his tibia would have held up, but what about his knee ligaments?

Recall that the reason Nerlens Noel did not play last season was because of the injury to his knee after hitting the stanchion...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFsUXzSYh9w

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned that moving it further back wouldn't help because you'd still run the risk of someone running into it, but wouldn't that risk be greatly diminished just by moving it back a foot or two? If Noel had an extra foot or two, perhaps he doesn't hurt himself.

I've always thought they have people and things WAY too close to the court - camera men, scorers tables, etc. Then you have the gyms that have RAISED floors (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/15122-elevated-courts-a-good-thing-for-ncaa-basketball) (like Vanderbilt (http://www.vanderbilt.edu/commodores/images/Gym1.jpg)). While Vandy does have a good set up in terms of distance, the raised floor can be fairly dangerous if the edges aren't far enough away, which VT's Erick Green (http://www.mndaily.com/2011/12/01/gophers-hold-beat-virginia-tech) found out.

The more I think about it, the more it seems apparent that these types of freak injuries happen to a specific type of player. Paul George, Nerlens Noel, Shaun Livingston, all very long, very skinny players. None of these injuries were due to overuse (Derrick Rose's first ACL injury), but rather just a weird angle and freak collision. Might be a sign for some of these younger guys to get in the weight room. Having some bulk to cushion these frequent basketball collisions is a major safety net for high level basketball.

FerryFor50
08-04-2014, 11:09 AM
The more I think about it, the more it seems apparent that these types of freak injuries happen to a specific type of player. Paul George, Nerlens Noel, Shaun Livingston, all very long, very skinny players. None of these injuries were due to overuse (Derrick Rose's first ACL injury), but rather just a weird angle and freak collision. Might be a sign for some of these younger guys to get in the weight room. Having some bulk to cushion these frequent basketball collisions is a major safety net for high level basketball.

Eh, I disagree.

For one, most high-level basketball players are long and skinny players. So yes, most basketball-related ACL tears, broken legs, etc happen to long, skinny players simply based on demographics.

There are very few fat basketball players, and those that are fat/heavy tend to get weight related knee issues. For example, Andrew Bynum is not a skinny guy (Cavs jersey used on purpose ;)).

4269

As for freak injuries, you can look to the NFL for many of those. Lots of ACL tears where a player doesn't even get touched. And those guys are not long and skinny.

Freak injury to me is when a guy like Derrick Rose plants and his knee just gives out. It's not when a guy goes flying at full speed and hits an immovable object with his leg. That's simply a result of having stuff too close to the court.

BD80
08-04-2014, 11:17 AM
The more I think about it, the more it seems apparent that these types of freak injuries happen to a specific type of player. ... very long, very skinny players. ...

You mean like ... basketball players?

I'll admit such injuries don't happen to guys shaped like me, but I'm usually more in control when I jump four feet into the air, I wake up before I land.

kAzE
08-04-2014, 11:37 AM
Eh, I disagree.

For one, most high-level basketball players are long and skinny players. So yes, most basketball-related ACL tears, broken legs, etc happen to long, skinny players simply based on demographics.

There are very few fat basketball players, and those that are fat/heavy tend to get weight related knee issues. For example, Andrew Bynum is not a skinny guy (Cavs jersey used on purpose ;)).

4269

As for freak injuries, you can look to the NFL for many of those. Lots of ACL tears where a player doesn't even get touched. And those guys are not long and skinny.

Freak injury to me is when a guy like Derrick Rose plants and his knee just gives out. It's not when a guy goes flying at full speed and hits an immovable object with his leg. That's simply a result of having stuff too close to the court.

Ah, yeah, I guess you're right, but I think my theory holds true for compound tibia/fibula fractures :p

Andrew Bynum isn't gonna be snapping his legs in half anytime soon.

FerryFor50
08-04-2014, 11:38 AM
Ah, yeah, I guess you're right, but I think my theory holds true for compound tibia/fibula fractures :p

Andrew Bynum isn't gonna be snapping his legs in half anytime soon.

I suppose you've never seen the YouTube of "Sid Vicious leg break."

kAzE
08-04-2014, 11:49 AM
I suppose you've never seen the YouTube of "Sid Vicious leg break."

No, and I'm really not interested, that sounds pretty gruesome :p

Furniture
08-04-2014, 12:09 PM
I suppose you've never seen the YouTube of "Sid Vicious leg break."

Never mind the bollocks. He did it his way!!

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
08-04-2014, 12:58 PM
You mean like ... basketball players?

I'll admit such injuries don't happen to guys shaped like me, but I'm usually more in control when I jump four feet into the air, I wake up before I land.

Seems we have something in common.

tommy
08-04-2014, 01:14 PM
Maybe someone can enlighten me on how the standard NBA contract language reads, but I've never heard that NBA contracts prohibit the player from playing basketball in the off-season. (obviously they don't, as players play all over the place every summer.) I could be totally wrong, but it seems to me that the contract is a fee for services: you play basketball for us from the beginning of training camp through the end of the playoffs, and we pay you X number of dollars to do so and follow all team and league rules, etc. There are probably clauses in there about no skydiving or other hazardous activities in the off-season, but if it's not in the contract, what gives Mark Cuban or any other owner the right to tell his players what they can and can't do with their off-season time? They're not slaves, subject to whatever rules or other prohibitions the owners decide to issue. If they want to give their time and their skills to someone else, including their country, during the off-season, what gives Cuban or anyone else the right to tell them they can't? Yes, there is potential harm to Cuban and the other owners and the league if the guy gets hurt, but so what? If you don't want him doing it, put it in the contract. Obviously the NBAPA would be very involved if the league tried to put these kinds of restrictions in player contracts, and it would be very tough on the league PR-wise to even try to prohibit guys from playing for their countries, but if it's not in the contract, I don't see that the owners really have much of a leg to stand on here. Am I missing something?

sagegrouse
08-04-2014, 01:36 PM
Maybe someone can enlighten me on how the standard NBA contract language reads, but I've never heard that NBA contracts prohibit the player from playing basketball in the off-season. (obviously they don't, as players play all over the place every summer.) I could be totally wrong, but it seems to me that the contract is a fee for services: you play basketball for us from the beginning of training camp through the end of the playoffs, and we pay you X number of dollars to do so and follow all team and league rules, etc. There are probably clauses in there about no skydiving or other hazardous activities in the off-season, but if it's not in the contract, what gives Mark Cuban or any other owner the right to tell his players what they can and can't do with their off-season time? They're not slaves, subject to whatever rules or other prohibitions the owners decide to issue. If they want to give their time and their skills to someone else, including their country, during the off-season, what gives Cuban or anyone else the right to tell them they can't? Yes, there is potential harm to Cuban and the other owners and the league if the guy gets hurt, but so what? If you don't want him doing it, put it in the contract. Obviously the NBAPA would be very involved if the league tried to put these kinds of restrictions in player contracts, and it would be very tough on the league PR-wise to even try to prohibit guys from playing for their countries, but if it's not in the contract, I don't see that the owners really have much of a leg to stand on here. Am I missing something?

Jason Williams' contract from the Bulls forbade him from riding motorcycles. While they were apparently decent in settling up his contract after a motorcycle injury ended his career, I believe he received less than the full value.

I believe the teams and the league have the power to try and stop players, through new contractual language, from playing on U.S. or international teams, although the NBPA may have some say on it and a player could try and negotiate if it isn't in the approved "standard contract." It is also rather a political topic, isn't it, because of the overseas revenue generated by the NBA and the desire of U.S. fans to win Olympic and world championships.

Billy Dat
08-04-2014, 03:38 PM
The Paul George leg break was horrible. I feel bad for him, the Pacers, Pacer fans, and Team USA who will have to move on without him. Speaking of which, do we feel enough time has passed to begin speculating about the roster beyond Plumlee/Cousins chatter? I am going to wager that we can:

The leg break obscured any talk about what took place in the 3+ quarters of play.

First off, the White Team was rolling through the Blue Team. The lead got up to 20. That was a little disappointing

Let's consider the guys thought to be locks:

White Team:
-Durant and Harden looked solid.

Blue Team:
-Rose looked fine in the first few minutes, but then was kind of quiet, and they really limited his play. Davis looked just OK. Curry looked good. George, pre injury, was basically invisible. The press just wants to play up Derek Rose's every move (former MVP on the comeback trail, I understand), and Colangelo and K seem to want to force Davis into being a face of the program, a role he doesn't yet appear naturally ready to assume. There is also talk about Love still potentially being on the team, which just shows me how much they (Colangelo and K) must dislike Cousins.

Other Standouts:
-Kyrie's quickness and craftiness is something to behold. He can manufacture baskets with that ability to find any crack and get through it, and he was playing 100% unselfish. I don't think he took a shot outside of 5 feet.
-DeMar DeRozen was making things happen. The George injury may open things up for him.
-Mason looked really good, but was it just because Boogie didn't stick with him on D?
-As for Boogie, I think he needs to be on the team. He was not great on team defense, but he rebounded his butt off and was a real presence out there. I'd like to see him on the team.
-Without the benefit of a stats sheet, I can say that I recall Thompson, Korver, Lillard shooting it pretty well, and Faried and Milsap making some noise on D and on the boards.

Didn't make much of an impression to me:
Hayward, Wall, Beal, Drummond, Parsons

kAzE
08-04-2014, 09:04 PM
ESPN article: http://espn.go.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/11310107/john-wall-bradley-beal-paul-millsap-team-usa-roster-cuts

We're down to 16 players now, with 5 who are considered locks:

Durant, Curry, Davis, Harden, Rose

The remaining 7 spots will be taken from this pool of 11 players:

Irving, Drummond, Cousins, Plumlee(!!!!!), Korver, Lillard, DeRozan, Thompson, Parsons, Faried, Hayward

I agree with Billy Dat in that DeRozan looked absolutely great in the scrimmage. He was hitting jumpers, making plays off the dribble, getting steals, grabbing boards, and leading all scorers with 16. If he can hit that jumper consistently, I think he could make the team.

Thompson looked good as well. He was able to hit that turnaround jumper from the post a few times. Very impressive.

Kyle Korver was Kyle Korver . . . he hits 3s if you leave him open. That's what he does, and it's an extremely valuable asset.

Cousins grabbed 11 rebounds in 25 minutes. His defense wasn't great and he took some pretty terrible shots, but 11 boards is nothing to sneeze at, either.

Kyrie played well. 3 for 5 shooting, 4 assist, 0 turnovers, and 2 steals in 25 minutes. I believe coach K wants him to be more of a distributor on this team, and the way he played definitely supports that theory. He's capable of it, too. I don't think there's a guard in the NBA with tighter handles than Kyrie.

I think the 7 guys who ultimately make the team from this pool are: Irving, Korver, DeRozan, Thompson, Cousins, Faried, and Lillard. That means Parsons, Hayward, Plumlee, and Drummond get cut. That would leave us with a supremely small roster, but I think 3 bigs is enough. I could see Parsons making the team over Faried or Lillard, though, so he can back up KD as a playmaking forward. What do you guys think?

awhom111
08-05-2014, 08:54 AM
Official Announcement:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/08/usa-basketball-announces-16-finalists-for-next-round-of-usa-mens-national-team-training.aspx

Updated Roster:
http://www.usab.com/mens/national-team/roster.aspx

_Gary
08-05-2014, 09:50 AM
ESPN article: http://espn.go.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/11310107/john-wall-bradley-beal-paul-millsap-team-usa-roster-cuts

We're down to 16 players now, with 5 who are considered locks:

Durant, Curry, Davis, Harden, Rose


I flat out don't believe Irving isn't a lock. Moreso, I say he starts over Rose. You read it here first, folks. And yes, I'm a Duke homer. But even so... Kyrie is a lock.

flyingdutchdevil
08-05-2014, 09:55 AM
ESPN article: http://espn.go.com/olympics/basketball/story/_/id/11310107/john-wall-bradley-beal-paul-millsap-team-usa-roster-cuts
The remaining 7 spots will be taken from this pool of 11 players:

Irving, Drummond, Cousins, Plumlee(!!!!!), Korver, Lillard, DeRozan, Thompson, Parsons, Faried, Hayward

I agree with Billy Dat in that DeRozan looked absolutely great in the scrimmage. He was hitting jumpers, making plays off the dribble, getting steals, grabbing boards, and leading all scorers with 16. If he can hit that jumper consistently, I think he could make the team.

I never would have thought that DeRozan would make this team, given his terrible 3pt shooting and spotty mid-range game. Can DeRozan fill Paul George's role, ie defensive stopper, hustle guy, fast break finisher, defensive glue, energy guy...obviously, George provided so much more (he's arguably a top 10 player in the league), but George's role on this team was never going to be a scorer. If DeRozan can step in and lock down a few wings, he'll get on this team.

superdave
08-05-2014, 10:50 AM
I asked a friend of mine a week ago who watches way more NBA than me which perimter player he would take who could be a lockdown defender, reliable perimeter shooter and good teammate as a role player. He said Wall or Derozan. He thought Wall could make the team as an off-guard who could get a lot of steals and lock down an opponent's best back court player if need be. With Wall gone, I wonder if Derozan could earn a spot like that. That sort of role player could earn some minutes considering Curry and Harden are not great defenders.

CDu
08-05-2014, 11:41 AM
I flat out don't believe Irving isn't a lock. Moreso, I say he starts over Rose. You read it here first, folks. And yes, I'm a Duke homer. But even so... Kyrie is a lock.

I think Irving has a VERY good shot at a spot on the team. Especially given that Curry has played mostly at SG in camp. But given everything that has been said by Coach K and others in the past week, I would be shocked if Irving starts over Rose.

Troublemaker
08-05-2014, 12:11 PM
Hayward's value might've gone up post-George-injury as well. He's considered a solid defender and although his shooting last season was horrible, that is considered fluky as he's still 36.5% from three for his career (compared to DeRozan's 26.7%) and he was given a max contract.

flyingdutchdevil
08-05-2014, 12:30 PM
Hayward's value might've gone up post-George-injury as well. He's considered a solid defender and although his shooting last season was horrible, that is considered fluky as he's still 36.5% from three for his career (compared to DeRozan's 26.7%) and he was given a max contract.

I haven't read much about Hayward's defense. As a matter of fact, I'd say it's closer to Curry D than George D: http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2014/06/09/my-2014-nba-no-defense-team-starring-kyrie-irving-gordon-hayward-james-harden-monta-ellis-and-many-others/. Again, this is only one man's opinion, and I've seen articles suggesting he is a competent defender, but I think DeRozan offers so much more on that side of the ball.

Also, while Hayward is a good 3pt shooter, that skill is essentially redundant on this team, with Curry, Korver, Irving, Durant, Harden, and Lillard (I'm definitely missing a few dudes) all being solid-to-great 3pt threats.

DeRozan may be the token defensive stopper on this team, ala Iggy on the 2012 Olympic team. This team needs a few strong defensive players. Now that the best on-the-ball defender is out, DeRozan may need to come in and fill that spot.

Troublemaker
08-05-2014, 02:28 PM
I haven't read much about Hayward's defense. As a matter of fact, I'd say it's closer to Curry D than George D: http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2014/06/09/my-2014-nba-no-defense-team-starring-kyrie-irving-gordon-hayward-james-harden-monta-ellis-and-many-others/. Again, this is only one man's opinion, and I've seen articles suggesting he is a competent defender, but I think DeRozan offers so much more on that side of the ball.

Also, while Hayward is a good 3pt shooter, that skill is essentially redundant on this team, with Curry, Korver, Irving, Durant, Harden, and Lillard (I'm definitely missing a few dudes) all being solid-to-great 3pt threats.

DeRozan may be the token defensive stopper on this team, ala Iggy on the 2012 Olympic team. This team needs a few strong defensive players. Now that the best on-the-ball defender is out, DeRozan may need to come in and fill that spot.

Unfortunately, I think we lost our chance of having an Iggy on the team when George went down. Until I see one of the USA coaches praise DeRozan as a possible stopper, I'm not as high as you on his defense. His Def Win Shares over the past few seasons and his DRPM are very similar to Hayward's, and both players lag far behind Iggy. I would say both DeRozan and Hayward are solid but unspectacular defenders, unlike George or Iggy who can guard 1 thru 4 well. I don't think USA will find an Iggy/George at this point. At big wing, I think USA will settle for solid D and the ability to hit a 3. From this standpoint, I think I like Thompson, Korver, and Hayward slightly more than DeRozan and Parsons.

Troublemaker
08-05-2014, 02:59 PM
Former Seton Hall coach Bobby Gonzalez has been covering Team USA and has this interesting nugget about James Harden (http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2014/08/02/gonzo-leaving-las-vegas-three-things-you-didnt-know-about-team-usa/) (hopefully not previously linked already):


James Harden is better than advertised defensively

I spoke to several members of the USAB staff, and behind the scenes they were amazed at how good James Harden has become as an overall player since his last tour with Team USA two years ago. The fact that he came in and was focused on being a lockdown defender blew them away.


Looks like Harden will start at the 2, and I suspect he'll play some 3. With George out, I can see USA using Rose-Curry-Harden-Durant-Davis as the finishing lineup in competitive games.

flyingdutchdevil
08-05-2014, 03:27 PM
With George out, I can see USA using Rose-Curry-Harden-Durant-Davis as the finishing lineup in competitive games.

This line-up is also known as the "Homer": D-O-O-O-O! (okay, so you can't spell "Doh" with only D and O).

Seems like Anthony Davis is, right now, the most important player on Team USA for his ability to play D. I'm a little surprised that there are so many offensive players on this team and not enough defensive talent.

Billy Dat
08-05-2014, 04:17 PM
I'm a little surprised that there are so many offensive players on this team and not enough defensive talent.

Surprised? Didn't you watch every bit of the 2013/4 Blue Devils. Hey now!

When George went down, I actually started to think the same thing, that maybe this is the squad that just tries to outscore everyone. The fact of the matter is that the last two times we had our back to the wall in FIBA games, the last two Olympic Gold Medal games against Spain, it was our offense that saved the day as we proved unable to get big stops down the stretch. I'd like to have as imposing a defense as possible, but I think we'll have enough defense, and more than enough offense, to get the job done. That's why I think Kyrie, more than Rose, is so important. I think he's a much better draw and dish PG than Rose.

SilkyJ
08-05-2014, 05:18 PM
I flat out don't believe Irving isn't a lock. Moreso, I say he starts over Rose. You read it here first, folks. And yes, I'm a Duke homer. But even so... Kyrie is a lock.

I highly doubt I was the first to predict it, but you certainly weren't :) (just messin' a little!)



PGs: Irving, Rose, Curry
Wings: Durant, George, Harden, Thompson, Beal
Bigs: Davis, Cousins, Faried (I just love his motor)


Then again I flipflopped and am now with CDu on this one :) :cool::o


Given the reports on Rose (and I don't think its K-speak given that its coming from ALL the coaches), it sounds like he may be back to form. The guy was the league MVP before he got hurt and had supplanted CP3 as the best PG in the game (at worst they were tied). If he's healthy, he's the starter. With harden's experience with Team USA, it makes sense that he'd be a leader for the team as well...so with those two things in mind I'll swap Rose & Harden from being main rotation guys into the starting lineup and put Curry and George off the bench.


I think Irving has a VERY good shot at a spot on the team. Especially given that Curry has played mostly at SG in camp. But given everything that has been said by Coach K and others in the past week, I would be shocked if Irving starts over Rose.

awhom111
08-06-2014, 12:09 AM
With no actual action for a little while, this teleconference provides us with some information to chew on:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/08/usa-basketball-tele-conference-with-jerry-colangelo-and-mike-krzyzewski.aspx

kAzE
08-06-2014, 12:42 AM
I just listened to Bill Simmons' latest podcast with Brian Winhorst, who has been covering the national team for ESPN, and there were several really interesting nuggets in there:

1. This doesn't have much to do with team USA, but Windhorst mentioned LeBron James going on the Ray Allen diet, and dropping 10-12 pounds from his playing weight before this season begins. That probably still puts him at or around 260 pounds, but I thought he did look a bit heavy in the playoffs this past year. Looking forward to a slimmer, quicker LeBron. Also, Windhorst knows for fact that LeBron has known "for several weeks" (possibly even before he publicly chose Cleveland in free agency) that he would be playing with Kevin Love in Cleveland, and agrees with Simmons that he intentionally left Bennett and Wiggins out of the "The Letter" for this reason. This seems to suggest that LeBron basically hand picked the terms of this blockbuster deal, meaning he is basically co-owner of the Cavs at this point, and is without question the 2nd most powerful entity in the NBA after Adam Silver.

2. Neither Simmons nor Windhorst were against Plumlee making the team over Cousins. I was actually astounded that Simmons, who is well known to be a Boogie fan boy (and Duke hater), was on board with this. He basically came to the same conclusion many posters in this thread came to: Cousins is clearly more talented, but this isn't an all-star team, it's a group of 12 players who's styles and personalities fit together in such a way that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Neither of them thought Boogie would respond well to playing 8 minutes a game.

3. They dropped the bomb at the end of the podcast: Both of them, if they had to bet their life on it, predicted that Kevin Love would be on this team. This has been floated previously in this thread, but that idea was quickly shot down. Now, Windhorst, who is closer to the situation than any of us, believes it could happen. Granted, he's not involved in personnel decisions, but the fact that he evens considers it a possibility is kind of incredible. The Love deal has already been reported to be done, with Philly as the 3rd team facilitating the trade. They think Love joins the team as soon as the deal is official (most likely the 23rd), and Mason gets kicked off the team in favor of Love.

Wow.

sagegrouse
08-06-2014, 07:15 AM
3. They dropped the bomb at the end of the podcast: Both of them, if they had to bet their life on it, predicted that Kevin Love would be on this team. This has been floated previously in this thread, but that idea was quickly shot down. Now, Windhorst, who is closer to the situation than any of us, believes it could happen. Granted, he's not involved in personnel decisions, but the fact that he evens considers it a possibility is kind of incredible. The Love deal has already been reported to be done, with Philly as the 3rd team facilitating the trade. They think Love joins the team as soon as the deal is official (most likely the 23rd), and Mason gets kicked off the team in favor of Love.

Wow.


You heard it here first:


August 1, 5:33PM -- Let me be the first to predict: If Kevin Love joins the USA FIBA roster at the end of August, it will be because one of the bigs has an injury. Maybe a hangnail? Sounds like a job for Mason, doesn't it?

Now that I think about it, I sense that, aha, the plot thickens! Probably 'cuz I have had to watch the scheming Shanahans in action in Washington for the past several years, I believe Mason is a strong candidate for the USA roster because he would far more willing to withdraw gracefully in favor of Kevin Love than would DeMarcus Cousins.

Sage Grouse

With 5,000 posts, it's only fair that one is on target.

Billy Dat
08-06-2014, 08:45 AM
You heard it here first. With 5,000 posts, it's only fair that one is on target.

Sage, I thought you were above the need for such validation? That is what vague Facebook status updates are for (e.g. "Hope I never have a bad day like this again...") But, to be fair, good call.


They dropped the bomb at the end of the podcast: Both of them, if they had to bet their life on it, predicted that Kevin Love would be on this team. This has been floated previously in this thread, but that idea was quickly shot down. Now, Windhorst, who is closer to the situation than any of us, believes it could happen. Granted, he's not involved in personnel decisions, but the fact that he evens considers it a possibility is kind of incredible. The Love deal has already been reported to be done, with Philly as the 3rd team facilitating the trade. They think Love joins the team as soon as the deal is official (most likely the 23rd), and Mason gets kicked off the team in favor of Love.


With no actual action for a little while, this teleconference provides us with some information to chew on:
http://www.usab.com/news-events/news/2014/08/usa-basketball-tele-conference-with-jerry-colangelo-and-mike-krzyzewski.aspx

Good pod recap, kAzE, I just listened and you hit the main points well. awhom111's USA Basketball teleconference link, which I haven't listened to yet, must contain Colangelo talking about the Love possibilities because it is covered in this NBC Sports piece. Colangelo didn't close the door, but he said the possibility is fairly remote. It sounds like the trade, if it has already been worked out, won't be done until 8/23. I think that is before the FIBA deadline to finalize the roster, but not by much.
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/08/05/usa-basketball-president-colangelo-on-adding-kevin-love-to-roster-chances-are-it-wont-happen/


2. Neither Simmons nor Windhorst were against Plumlee making the team over Cousins. I was actually astounded that Simmons, who is well known to be a Boogie fan boy (and Duke hater), was on board with this. He basically came to the same conclusion many posters in this thread came to: Cousins is clearly more talented, but this isn't an all-star team, it's a group of 12 players who's styles and personalities fit together in such a way that the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Neither of them thought Boogie would respond well to playing 8 minutes a game.


I think this nails the angle that I wasn't considering, that Cousins may not be OK with being a role player who doesn't get minutes. He must still be a malcontent for this storyline to be playing out this way. My pro-Boogie perspective is based on the fact that this is the 3rd summer he has devoted time to USA Basketball in the hopes of building equity and making the team. I feel like he represents a certain type of kid that often gets maligned because they are a little bit wild, emotional and outspoken. I know that these guys have to learn from their mistakes, but I also feel like being among the talented vets on the team would help him get there, and I am a sucker for those storylines. For example, I love when Allen Iverson was on Team USA. We may have not won the gold in 2004, but AI killed himself to win that tournament and showed a ton of pride in wearing the uniform. We'll see how it plays out.

I was also surprised to hear Simmons say that he thinks Faried is a shoe-in for the team and Windhorst didn't question it. I don't think Faried is any kind of lock based on what I've seen and been reading.

kAzE
08-06-2014, 08:58 AM
I was also surprised to hear Simmons say that he thinks Faried is a shoe-in for the team and Windhorst didn't question it. I don't think Faried is any kind of lock based on what I've seen and been reading.

Check out the teleconference recap that awhom posted. I think Faried has a good chance to make it based on Coach K's reaction to the questions about him. I believe he brings a lot of things to the table that are lacking from the rest of this roster, especially with the loss of Paul George. I think he makes the team, even if Love joins.

Here's are the excerpts I mentioned:


Q. Coach, I wanted to ask you if Kenneth Faried has sort of broken the mold of what this team looks for in a 4 man. He's a big guy, but he doesn't shoot, yet he's brought so much energy and so much bounce that it seems like it's hard to keep him off the team. Is that a good way to describe it?

MIKE KRZYZEWSKI: Yeah, it's a very great way to describe it. That's why he's going forward. He's a different player than the other players we have, and his specialty has been rebounding and energy and good defense and running. He did that every day, and he did that in the scrimmage, and guys like playing with Kenneth.

Q. Coach and Jerry, just wondering, Coach, if you could elaborate a little more on Kenneth Faried and his defense in particular because that's one thing in the first three years that the coaching staff is always trying to emphasize with Kenneth is energy and rebounding is there but it's getting the defensive concepts. I know you haven't had an extensive time to look at him, but what have you seen in that area?

MIKE KRZYZEWSKI: Well, he's capable of being, and he is a really good defensive player. He's capable of being a great defensive player because he's got the energy, he's got the toughness, the foot speed, the strength, and the quickness to really play ‑‑ he can guard a center, too, for short periods of time.

Kenneth is a very, very good player, especially when he goes to his strengths, and defense should be one of his strengths.