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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 67, Miami 46 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
01-22-2014, 09:33 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Dukehky
01-22-2014, 09:34 PM
Called a comfortable win. Newt wasn't too sure. Oh ye of little faith.

Great game by the squad. Jefferson and Parker absolutely dominated on the glass. I certainly didn't see that coming.

OldPhiKap
01-22-2014, 09:34 PM
Amile was the man.

hurleyfor3
01-22-2014, 09:35 PM
For those who care about Pomeroy, this will really help.

Also, win #899 for K at Duke.

duke4ever19
01-22-2014, 09:35 PM
Great rebounding from Jabari. Amile was a beast down in the paint tonight.

The team really asserted themselves on the glass tonight. Great to see.

uh_no
01-22-2014, 09:35 PM
good win. great defense against a mediocre offense. on to the real tests.

NYBri
01-22-2014, 09:35 PM
Great game. Defense was intense and we handled the zone.

Duvall
01-22-2014, 09:35 PM
In which Miami learns the difference between a team and a program.

gurufrisbee
01-22-2014, 09:36 PM
New system keeps on clicking. Loving the energy and defense and depth of talent on display.

weezie
01-22-2014, 09:36 PM
Amile was the man.

Oh yeah he's got it going all on.

NYBri
01-22-2014, 09:37 PM
The Amile tip and put-back was the play of the game.

Kfanarmy
01-22-2014, 09:37 PM
Great game. Miami is woeful on O, which was a known coming in. Great attack mindset for most of the game. Rotation / deep bench continues to work. Not sure where everyone's focus went for a little while there in the second half, hopefully just a bi product of not sensing much of a threat from Miami. Good Road Win. 4-2 in the ACC.

sagegrouse
01-22-2014, 09:37 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Good win! A team effort -- we won by 21 with only average shooting. Miami was totally outclassed by Duke's defense and hustle.

I still think the two-platoon system is a game-to-game approach, but it will continue for at least another game or so given the results to date.

I thought Rasheed played really well tonight, but I was surprised his stats weren't stronger. Jabari's rebounding was very impressive. His scoring was due in large part to the feeds and assists that let him score from under the basket.

I think the game wins the "celebrity prize" Dwyane, Lebron, Kobe, Shane, and Ryan -- how can you beat that?

Ichabod Drain
01-22-2014, 09:37 PM
Rebounds: Duke - 42 Miami - 28 Game. Set. Match.

Tappan Zee Devil
01-22-2014, 09:40 PM
Great game for Amile, but not so much in the stats. Parker more than doubled him in both points and rebounds. Watching the game, I would not have guessed that.

To me, this was one of Dickie V's better games. Until the last minute or so, he seemed very much on task and focused.

flyingdutchdevil
01-22-2014, 09:43 PM
1) Did our defense really improve that much or is Miami that bad on O?

2) Is Rasheed our best passer? Quinn is the best ball handler (without question), but Sulaimon is amazing at passing. I honestly think that when Quinn losses focus (always a few minutes into the second half, put in Sulaimon!)

3) Why does Jabari always block opponents' shots after the ref calls a whistle? Personally, I find it slightly disrespectful...

4) Amile is just amazing. He's so agile and springy as a 5. Next year, can he play the 4 for Duke? Has Duke ever had a 4 who couldn't hit a jumpshot?

5) Sulaimon has been playing some of his best basketball as of late. Is he a top 3 player for Duke this season?

6) Can this team focus for a full 40 minutes?

7) I have never commented about the color commentary (I enjoy the vast, vast majority of them), but I can't take Dickie V. I mean, he's just terrible. Would you rather choose nails on a chalkboard for 2 hours or hearing Dickie V cover a UNC/Maryland game?

hurleyfor3
01-22-2014, 09:44 PM
hearing Dickie V cover a UNC/Maryland game?

This is what espn shows in hell when they don't have soccer on.

Tappan Zee Devil
01-22-2014, 09:46 PM
This is what espn shows in hell when they don't have soccer on.

Again, it depends on having a focused or free-form Dickie. He was not that bad tonight.

flyingdutchdevil
01-22-2014, 09:47 PM
This is what espn shows in hell when they don't have soccer on.

Sorry hurleyfor3. For this guy, it's soccer > basketball.

sagegrouse
01-22-2014, 09:50 PM
Again, it depends on having a focused or free-form Dickie. He was not that bad tonight.

Maybe the docs changed his meds, or maybe some stole them -- probably the producer.

sage
'BTW: see my signature quote. Someone sent it to me as an astonishing kudo for Duke athletics, not knowing I had been the originator. Hmmm... maybe I should vet the wording with the Duke SID to make sure it's accurate'

BlueDevilBrowns
01-22-2014, 09:53 PM
4) Amile is just amazing. He's so agile and springy as a 5. Next year, can he play the 4 for Duke? Has Duke ever had a 4 who couldn't hit a jumpshot?

Answer: Lance Thomas 2010. Lance had an ok 15 footer but not much past that. I think Amile can do that next year with practice.

dukeinal
01-22-2014, 09:53 PM
We still have areas to improve on but this team is really fun to watch this year. Also with the line changes it is fun to see the improvement of the second line as they get more time on the floor..

CLW
01-22-2014, 09:54 PM
Team was really aggressive tonight attacking the glass and killed the zone with offensive rebound after offensive rebound. Not a great shooting night for sure but another solid effort on D against a subpar Miami club. FSU should provide a real test.

flyingdutchdevil
01-22-2014, 09:55 PM
Answer: Lance Thomas 2010. Lance had an ok 15 footer but not much past that. I think Amile can do that next year with practice.

Great, great comparison. Completely forgot about that. I guess McBob in 2007 is also another good example. Silly FDD...

roywhite
01-22-2014, 09:56 PM
Duke shot 8-25 from 3-pt and still came out with a decisive win on the road. Great to see.

Rebounding and defense, previous problem areas, were strong points tonight. Jabari and Amile were key in both of those areas.

Didn't like the sloppy play and lack of focus for stretches in the second half; didn't exactly let Miami back in the game, but missed opportunities to break open the game earlier than we did. Overall, things are coming together well.

Saratoga2
01-22-2014, 10:00 PM
Another game where Duke used heavy substitution to allow constant defensive pressure with fresh bodies. I thought the defense tonight was really excellent with the addition of Matt Jones to the starting lineup a defensive plus. This was a good offensive effort for Duke, not even its best and it still resulted in a 20+ point win. The rebounding against a big team was also excellent. Amile and Jabari were both impressive, but others also were very good. Nice to be able to say that Marshall had a good game blocking and rebounding. They don't go to him for scoring so it is hard to say what would happen if they did, but they don't need scoring from him at this point.

Rasheed is maintaining his good play and seems to be best at getting Jabari the ball in scoring position, as well as scoring himself. This team has a lot of excellent weapons, with Hood also having an excellent game. It was hard to pick a player of the game. I even liked what I saw of Semi. Just how big is he? I saw him next to Jabari and he doesn't look that much shorter.

The only issue I saw was a temporary lull in which Quinn made three rather odd plays trying to drive into the trees, making a poor pass to Jabari and then making an intentional foul. That is the kind of play which cost us in previous games. Coach K took him out and I believe talked to him about it, trying to steady him and get him back to play his normall smart play.

A nice win against a zone defensive that has given others issues.

Papa John
01-22-2014, 10:03 PM
1) Did our defense really improve that much or is Miami that bad on O?

I think our defense has really improved that much, and Miami is that bad on O...


3) Why does Jabari always block opponents' shots after the ref calls a whistle? Personally, I find it slightly disrespectful...

I don't mind it... Might as well nix the potential for a 3-point play...


6) Can this team focus for a full 40 minutes?

That would be nice to see... They seem to hit lulls at the midpoint of each half...


7) I have never commented about the color commentary (I enjoy the vast, vast majority of them), but I can't take Dickie V. I mean, he's just terrible. Would you rather choose nails on a chalkboard for 2 hours or hearing Dickie V cover a UNC/Maryland game?

Definitely the nails on the chalkboard...

wsb3
01-22-2014, 10:04 PM
This is more along the lines of the D I expected. People are not getting beat off the dribble repeatedly. Amile is our X factor & when he plays at a high level we are just a different team. Good team win. Loved Jabari's performance.

devildeac
01-22-2014, 10:11 PM
Maybe the docs changed his meds, or maybe some stole them -- probably the producer.

sage
'BTW: see my signature quote. Someone sent it to me as an astonishing kudo for Duke athletics, not knowing I had been the originator. Hmmm... maybe I should vet the wording with the Duke SID to make sure it's accurate'

Someone here quoted that before, but it's still a great one.

mattman91
01-22-2014, 10:12 PM
Great line.:D

ricks

Rick! We missed you tonight at APBC...

Great game all around tonight. Loved the rebounding effort by Jabari, and of course, the team defense. This team is really starting to come along, couldn't be more exited to see how we shape out through conferences play! Lets go Duke!

Gmadaduke
01-22-2014, 10:13 PM
Can't say just how much I've enjoyed watching Amile last few games. Assertive down low, but more importantly, knows his role, doesn't force the game and plays with a great basketball IQ. Very impressive for a young player.

Parker is also playing differently. The announcers were talking about him being more aggressive, but I don't think that's necessarily it. I think he's making better choices and forcing the game less. Plus, with the line shifts, he's more well rested. Good to see. He also seems to have more confidence in his teammates, or maybe the team is just more comfortable when he's not on the floor. More good things.

Finally, Marshall deserves some words of praise. He hasn't gotten a ton of time, but I like what I'm seeing from him. He's certainly not a liability on the floor and seems to have a very good sense of the game. Great to see us getting a few quality minutes from him at this point in the season and he's only going to get much better as he gets more experience.

Furniture
01-22-2014, 10:13 PM
This Miami team got beat by Cuse @ Cuse 44-49. We did really well in my opinion. Solid performance.

I am not sure who suggested it before but I also noticed that Sheed did seem to play better without Cook. I also think he seemed to be the most comfortable against the zone...

4Gen
01-22-2014, 10:15 PM
Amile is a junkyard dog, and the ball is a pork chop.

Indoor66
01-22-2014, 10:17 PM
Can't say just how much I've enjoyed watching Amile last few games. Assertive down low, but more importantly, knows his role, doesn't force the game and plays with a great basketball IQ. Very impressive for a young player.

Parker is also playing differently. The announcers were talking about him being more aggressive, but I don't think that's necessarily it. I think he's making better choices and forcing the game less. Plus, with the line shifts, he's more well rested. Good to see. He also seems to have more confidence in his teammates, or maybe the team is just more comfortable when he's not on the floor. More good things.

Finally, Marshall deserves some words of praise. He hasn't gotten a ton of time, but I like what I'm seeing from him. He's certainly not a liability on the floor and seems to have a very good sense of the game. Great to see us getting a few quality minutes from him at this point in the season and he's only going to get much better as he gets more experience.

I think that Parker has become more patient. He is allowing the game to come to him - not forcing things. Forcing things is when he (and Quinn) get into trouble.

uh_no
01-22-2014, 10:19 PM
1) Did our defense really improve that much or is Miami that bad on O?
could be some of both....the latter is a definite...the upcoming games will tell the former


3) Why does Jabari always block opponents' shots after the ref calls a whistle? Personally, I find it slightly disrespectful...
disrespectful that the refs call a whistle every time jabari is about to block a shot? yeah I agree :)


5) Sulaimon has been playing some of his best basketball as of late. Is he a top 3 player for Duke this season?
he's the third best player on the team with andre amile, and quinn...just behind jabari and rodney



7) I have never commented about the color commentary (I enjoy the vast, vast majority of them), but I can't take Dickie V. I mean, he's just terrible. Would you rather choose nails on a chalkboard for 2 hours or hearing Dickie V cover a UNC/Maryland game?

watching the game at tylers taproom on 10% beer pint night is the perfect solution, methinks

mgtr
01-22-2014, 10:20 PM
I am not sure who suggested it before but I also noticed that Sheed did seem to play better without Cook. I also think he seemed to be the most comfortable against the zone...

This is a very good point. And, speaking of points, I would like to see Sheed at the point and Hood at the 2. I think we saw some of that tonight.

Misunderestimated
01-22-2014, 10:26 PM
Content with win. Worth mentioning that that any kind of vengeance was lost at the end of last season. This UM team bears no resemblance to the team that scorched us on the same floor. Hate to see Cook lose composure.

devildeac
01-22-2014, 10:29 PM
Quick-without looking-who led the team in steals tonight with 3?

jcastranio
01-22-2014, 10:29 PM
That was a weird stretch. We went up 42-23. Then, Jabari was fouled on a short shot that ended up two feet short (no call). Miami tipped in a ball clearly still in the cylinder (no call). Rasheed was fouled on a floater that ended up two feet short (no call). Jabari had a technical foul called on him when he missed a dunk and held on to the rim - because Miami's guard (#20) was pushing him from behind (no call except the technical). Finally, Quinn had his inexplicable bad shot, bad pass turnover, intentional foul stretch.

Anyway, most of the 4-6 minute lull was on a long series of questionable calls (questionable even with my Duke blue glasses on).

Great team game - lots of contributors.

bbosbbos
01-22-2014, 10:29 PM
Amile played good 5 now. Parker showed his talent. But he still forced shots. I expect a better Parker who will be the TOP NBA player. Rasheed is a good passer now.

Anybody saw Marshall had several shinning moments? I like his performance today.

kcduke75
01-22-2014, 10:30 PM
Again, it depends on having a focused or free-form Dickie. He was not that bad tonight.

.... at least to me.

I suspect meds too

Troublemaker
01-22-2014, 10:34 PM
Very pleased with this win. We notched our first road win in dominant fashion, including pushing the lead out from low teens to 20+ in the final ten minutes. That's obviously a very different result from the previous two road games. Also, Miami relentlessly tried to beat us using ball screens, and we defended those very well, something I was hoping to see us do, even against a bad offense like Miami's. (It certainly helps that Miami doesn't have a Shane Larkin to use the ball screens. We held their freshman PG to 4 points, 2 assists, and 6 turnovers. Devastating stuff from our D.)

dukelifer
01-22-2014, 10:39 PM
Great game. Miami is woeful on O, which was a known coming in. Great attack mindset for most of the game. Rotation / deep bench continues to work. Not sure where everyone's focus went for a little while there in the second half, hopefully just a bi product of not sensing much of a threat from Miami. Good Road Win. 4-2 in the ACC.

Ugly game but a great win. Duke weathered a few runs but in the end- it was an easy victory. The team is playing better as a unit- much better. You can see the roles being defined. The blue team was not as effective on the road but they did give good minutes and kept the starters fresh. I thought Marshall was very good tonight. Some blocks/altered shots - some rebounds in traffic. Dawkins hit a couple of big threes. Sheed continues to find his mojo. As for the starters, Amile is really playing well- cannot say enough about his game and effort. Parker is definitely letting the game come to him more. My only concern is Quinn's play with a lead. He is not making great decisions at times. He needs to focus more and showboat less. At times he is brilliant and at times he is making huge mistakes. Need to be more consistent on the brilliant side or at least not make silly errors that cost points. I actually liked having Thornton out there to settle the team. Other than that- the first road win in a pretty pumped up environment. This bodes well before the stretch of games next week- although the opponents will score better than Miami. Still - Duke is trending upward.

Clay Feet POF
01-22-2014, 10:40 PM
Maybe the docs changed his meds, or maybe some stole them -- probably the producer.

sage
'BTW: see my signature quote. Someone sent it to me as an astonishing kudo for Duke athletics, not knowing I had been the originator. Hmmm... maybe I should vet the wording with the Duke SID to make sure it's accurate'

How can you Not like a guy that roots for your team, coaches, school and the Crazies. Heck that describes almost all the posters on this Board. Would you prefer Elmore, Walton or Musburger!

Troublemaker
01-22-2014, 10:43 PM
3) Why does Jabari always block opponents' shots after the ref calls a whistle? Personally, I find it slightly disrespectful...


Blocking shots after the whistle is an NBA move that was popularized by Garnett.

I'm sort of torn about Jabari doing it. I know he's not being disrespectful, but maybe he should save his legs instead of taking unnecessary jumps.

At the same time, I realize the benefit. The opposing player doesn't get to feel good about seeing a shot go in. And maybe this is Jabari's contribution to the team's newfound relentlessness on D, i.e. an attitude he's trying to help foster.

roywhite
01-22-2014, 10:49 PM
Duke 68 -- Miami 47 (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209383805)

Jabari had 3 blocks to go along with his 17 points and 15 rebounds

Amile continues to look comfortable and competent; 7 rebounds, 3 blocks and 8 points in 32 minutes; called for only 2 fouls, as he has learned how to play well without fouling

42 - 28 rebound advantage, with Duke getting 15 offensive rebounds; 7 "team" rebounds, which indicates several guys going after the ball

Rasheed is becoming a real playmaker; makes things happen on his drives, as he is finishing better (still room for improvement) and hitting open teammates

flyingdutchdevil
01-22-2014, 10:50 PM
Blocking shots after the whistle is an NBA move that was popularized by Garnett.

I'm sort of torn about Jabari doing it. I know he's not being disrespectful, but maybe he should save his legs instead of taking unnecessary jumps.

At the same time, I realize the benefit. The opposing player doesn't get to feel good about seeing a shot go in. And maybe this is Jabari's contribution to the team's newfound relentlessness on D, i.e. an attitude he's trying to help foster.

Thanks for the analysis. I don't mind players shooting the ball after the whistle for #$%& and giggles, but I've never been a fan of players "goal tending" those shots. If it's a meaningless shot for the opposing team, why interfere? I think that's one of my very few issues with Jabari (and I have plenty of issues!)

roywhite
01-22-2014, 10:52 PM
Very pleased with this win. We notched our first road win in dominant fashion, including pushing the lead out from low teens to 20+ in the final ten minutes. That's obviously a very different result from the previous two road games. Also, Miami relentlessly tried to beat us using ball screens, and we defended those very well, something I was hoping to see us do, even against a bad offense like Miami's. (It certainly helps that Miami doesn't have a Shane Larkin to use the ball screens. We held their freshman PG to 4 points, 2 assists, and 6 turnovers. Devastating stuff from our D.)

Hope you didn't go along with that "smart money" that was moving toward the 'Canes.

ICP
01-22-2014, 10:54 PM
This is what espn shows in hell when they don't have soccer on.

Sorry hurleyfor3. For this guy, it's soccer > basketball.

Same here, that was an uncalled for insult to the soccer fans among us... Disappointing to find it on this forum.

Oh, and on top of that, I really love Dickie V, he's often defending Duke against the haters and appreciates us for our on and off the court activities. And his energy and passion for the game are fantastic, he sounds like some of the soccer commentators I enjoy so much because he tries to get you into the game atmosphere. Nothing worse than a boring, monotone game announcer. Never the case with Dickie V!

miramar
01-22-2014, 10:54 PM
I went to the game and it was a low energy affair most of the way. We played great defense and took their point guards out of the game. Duke had a double digit lead the entire second half, but it seemed that if anyone had stepped up after UM's two quick time outs then it would have been an early blowout. Fortunately it worked out in the end but UM was hanging around for too long.

The UM crowd is great when they go on a 25-1 run as they did last year, but they don't realize that they have to provide energy when the team is down. People seemed to be sitting on their hands until they decided to head for the exits early.

Furniture
01-22-2014, 10:54 PM
Ugly game but a great win. Duke weathered a few runs but in the end- it was an easy victory. The team is playing better as a unit- much better. You can see the roles being defined. The blue team was not as effective on the road but they did give good minutes and kept the starters fresh. I thought Marshall was very good tonight. Some blocks/altered shots - some rebounds in traffic. Dawkins hit a couple of big threes. Sheed continues to find his mojo. As for the starters, Amile is really playing well- cannot say enough about his game and effort. Parker is definitely letting the game come to him more. My only concern is Quinn's play with a lead. He is not making great decisions at times. He needs to focus more and showboat less. At times he is brilliant and at times he is making huge mistakes. Need to be more consistent on the brilliant side or at least not make silly errors that cost points. I actually liked having Thornton out there to settle the team. Other than that- the first road win in a pretty pumped up environment. This bodes well before the stretch of games next week- although the opponents will score better than Miami. Still - Duke is trending upward.

I agree in general the blue team were not as good as previous games but they were still good and in particular when we went on the little slump early in the second half. We were up something like twenty or at least high teens and went down to thirteen or something. On comes the blue team and back up we go. Very good!

Troublemaker
01-22-2014, 10:57 PM
Hope you didn't go along with that "smart money" that was moving toward the 'Canes.

Oh, no. I wrote that I thought the smart money was wrong on this one and that Duke would cover. Checking line movements is only a starting point for gambling. There's no way I would trust the sharps' analysis of my team over my own analysis. I knew our boys were on an upswing.

Furniture
01-22-2014, 10:57 PM
Same here, that was an uncalled for insult to the soccer fans among us... Disappointing to find it on this forum.

Oh, and on top of that, I really love Dickie V, he's often defending Duke against the haters and appreciates us for our on and off the court activities. And his energy and passion for the game are fantastic, he sounds like some of the soccer commentators I enjoy so much because he tries to get you into the game atmosphere. Nothing worse than a boring, monotone game announcers. Never the case with Dickie V!

I have never understood why posters on this forum don't like Dickie V. I think he is great!

uh_no
01-22-2014, 10:59 PM
Thanks for the analysis. I don't mind players shooting the ball after the whistle for #$%& and giggles, but I've never been a fan of players "goal tending" those shots. If it's a meaningless shot for the opposing team, why interfere? I think that's one of my very few issues with Jabari (and I have plenty of issues!)

i must disagree....you do it all the time so it becomes habit, second nature.

I think back to when i was playing little kickers (or whatever) and the coach one year said that we should never hold the soccer ball, and that whenever we were on grass, we should be dribbling the ball...whether walking from practice, going to get water, or in a game...because it would make you more comfortable moving the ball with your feet all the time...second nature

i knew guys who would dribble a basketball while walking to a friend's house...just to make moving around with a ball...dribbling with both hands so instinctive that it was almost impossible to lose control

I think the same is true with rebounding and blocks...I know in my case, i would go after every lose ball...whether in shoot-around, practice, a game, whatever....because when it was important to get a rebound, I was going after it instinctively....it was a ball and I needed to get it (not least of all helped because i was a terrible shot, and would often only get one or two shots in a "make it take it" type shoot around....so my only hope was to get boards)

I think the same could very well be true for jabari....the more you get used to blocking everything, the better your ability to block it when necessary is. someone pointed out the benefit of an opponent seeing the ball go in might be....I think blocking a ball has the same effect...if I get used to blocking every shot, regardless of situation, I'm going to block your shot when it counts too.

so long as it's not disruptive to the game...causing huge delays hitting the ball into the upper deck, I say go for it.

duke4ever19
01-22-2014, 11:01 PM
I have never understood why posters on this forum don't like Dickie V. I think he is great!

I no longer listen to any Duke games with sound. Dickie V pushed me to that point last year and I haven't looked back since.

Karl Beem
01-22-2014, 11:06 PM
Blocking shots after the whistle is an NBA move that was popularized by Garnett.

I'm sort of torn about Jabari doing it. I know he's not being disrespectful, but maybe he should save his legs instead of taking unnecessary jumps.

At the same time, I realize the benefit. The opposing player doesn't get to feel good about seeing a shot go in. And maybe this is Jabari's contribution to the team's newfound relentlessness on D, i.e. an attitude he's trying to help foster.

Blocking a shot that will count as 2pts if unblocked is a very good play.

Troublemaker
01-22-2014, 11:08 PM
Coach K postgame presser


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PjyLollki0

luburch
01-22-2014, 11:09 PM
3) Why does Jabari always block opponents' shots after the ref calls a whistle? Personally, I find it slightly disrespectful...


Sorry if this has already been answered, but I didn't see it when I was skimming the pages. Kevin Garnett was the first person I remember doing it and it was so the player wouldn't see the ball go through the basket to give them the confidence of a made shot.

SupaDave
01-22-2014, 11:10 PM
The Amile tip and put-back was the play of the game.

I actually think his steal and lay-up were much more timely.

uh_no
01-22-2014, 11:23 PM
for any who needed further confirmation that this was a good game....we shot up from #18 to #12 kenpom....and pulled the defense efficiency some 4 points better

i know the teams are relatively closely packed in that range...but still a good jump.

Ultrarunner
01-22-2014, 11:24 PM
Quick-without looking-who led the team in steals tonight with 3?

That would be Mr. Dawkins. No blocked shots tonight, though. I am truly enjoying this young man's senior campaign.

gcashwell
01-22-2014, 11:36 PM
Marshall did a great job clogging the lane. He is strong!

Monmouth77
01-22-2014, 11:52 PM
1)

4) Amile is just amazing. He's so agile and springy as a 5. Next year, can he play the 4 for Duke? Has Duke ever had a 4 who couldn't hit a jumpshot?

Brian Davis

vick
01-23-2014, 12:34 AM
Brian Davis

Although he later developed a passable one, I don't recall Lance Thomas having much of a jumper as a freshman (18 starts), not to mention a truly incredible 1:43 assist-turnover ratio. I'm very comfortable with Okafor and Jefferson together next year and I strongly suspect K will be too.

burnspbesq
01-23-2014, 12:53 AM
Saw a few screens at the elbows tonight that enabled dribblers to get into the lane. We'll need more of that against Cuse.

ChillinDuke
01-23-2014, 12:56 AM
Count me in the corner as one greatly in favor of the line-change approach. I am gaining confidence in it as a great way to pair our players appropriately based on their skill sets.

Consider our hypothetical "best-case" preseason lineup that many of us ventured: Cook-Sulaimon-Hood-Parker-Jefferson. Then, consider what line changing does. And I think you'll see why I'm starting to love this approach - and it mostly revolves around the 2nd unit.

First of all in the back court, it avoids pairing Thornton-Jones-Dawkins (and at the time Murphy) - 3 (4) players that can't create for themselves. Especially consider the pairing of Thornton-Jones. Both are essentially catch-and-shoot-only offensive players and both play good pressure D. Their pressure D is, in my eyes, better in the context of a group as either can be beaten on drives. To me, these guys (one a senior, the other a freshman) are the consummate "glue" guys this season. To put them on the same line, as was the case before this new approach, seems redundant. Splitting them up adds a glue guy to both the first and second team while keeping at least a passable offensive threat outside at the three point line to spread the floor. I don't care who says what about Tyler, kid can hit a three, and I don't mind his taking that shot.

Second, now with Jones being the "glue" guy in the starting lineup, it moves Sulaimon to the 2nd string. Timing wise, this means Rasheed, who is pretty clearly in the class of an ACC starter, matches up much more against 2nd stringers for other teams. To me, this is the definition (and value) of a true 6th man. He takes over as the primary ball distributor in Cook's absence on the 2nd unit as he can create for himself and penetrate, something which the 1st unit already has in Cook, Hood, and Parker. Rasheed becomes the focus of the opposing team's defense while the starters are resting. The opponent can't relax on D thereby spending even more energy. Not to mention the fact that Andre Dawkins is running off baseline screens, a player you just can't leave...ever, set by two guys that earn a living setting screens - Josh Hairston and Marshall Plumlee.

Then the starters come back in rested - able to exert maximum energy yet again. Hood takes over Dawkins' 3-bombing role*, Parker is the focus of the defense, the floor is spread for a heck of a rebounder in Amile who has no big bodies clogging the lane on his own team (namely, Josh and Marsh), Thornton is making scrappy plays that seem to promote run-outs. And run-out opportunities are probably maximized on this team with Quinn-Hood-Parker-Jefferson in the game (as opposed to the reasonable substitute for any of them).

Not to mention, the game is so fun to watch - both because of the speed and because we get to see so many players on the court.

It just all seems to work. The more I think about it, the more I like it. And I admit wholeheartedly that the idea never once crossed my mind as even remotely likely.

*Back to me calling out Rodney as essentially a 3-bomber. If there's one thing I think we need to be a truly elite team, it's Rodney figuring out what Rasheed has. When you look at Rasheed now, he has a certain swagger that he didn't have earlier in the year. He is aggressive, but smartly - slashing into lanes, finding open guys, and not forcing the issue once he gets close. I admit that Rasheed looks to get off his feet too much and then get caught in the air looking for passes, many of which (perhaps luckily) find a man. But aside from that one shameless irritant that I just had to vent, look at how Rasheed has turned a corner. I believe Rodney needs a bit of that himself. He has all the skills to beat his man and drive and the height to find open guys. Yet he seems to do a shimmy at the three point line, see a man and back it out. I'm not sure if it's by design or not, but if Rodney can get into the lane with more efficiency, I think it opens up Parker and Amile even more, and I think this team becomes truly elite. So yeah, Rodney - I'm calling you out.

Nice win! 4-2 and looking good.

- Chillin

throatybeard
01-23-2014, 12:57 AM
Brian Davis

Brian Davis is one of my three or four favorite Duke men's players ever. I forget what his "skill set" (are we still saying that?) was exactly. I was young, but I think defense was involved. I just watched two documentaries involving Patrick Ewing, and no one referred to him as a "rim protector," but these were made in 2006. I think protecting the rim was part of his skill set, except when he gave Carolina ten free points in the 1982 Final on goaltending. I suppose the rim still got protected, for its own sake.

I remain utterly mystified about how good this 2014 MBB Duke team is.

hurleyfor3
01-23-2014, 02:39 AM
for any who needed further confirmation that this was a good game....we shot up from #18 to #12 kenpom....and pulled the defense efficiency some 4 points better

Once Ken got all of tonight's games into his Commodore 64, we moved up to eleventh.

So since our last game, we moved up 11 spots overall (we were 22d), and some 27 spots defensively (were as low as 102 IIRC).

duke09hms
01-23-2014, 03:01 AM
Well we were #22 after creaming NC State, then had moved up to #18 before the Miami game due to other movement. Now we're #11.

Point remains, we had a good game against Miami and a great showing by our defense.

porkpa
01-23-2014, 05:38 AM
Thrilled to see that Coach K continues to utilize his very talented bench.
Still can't understand why Coach Capel even owns, let alone would wear a Carolina blue colored suit.

dukelifer
01-23-2014, 05:58 AM
Count me in the corner as one greatly in favor of the line-change approach. I am gaining confidence in it as a great way to pair our players appropriately based on their skill sets.

Consider our hypothetical "best-case" preseason lineup that many of us ventured: Cook-Sulaimon-Hood-Parker-Jefferson. Then, consider what line changing does. And I think you'll see why I'm starting to love this approach - and it mostly revolves around the 2nd unit.

First of all in the back court, it avoids pairing Thornton-Jones-Dawkins (and at the time Murphy) - 3 (4) players that can't create for themselves. Especially consider the pairing of Thornton-Jones. Both are essentially catch-and-shoot-only offensive players and both play good pressure D. Their pressure D is, in my eyes, better in the context of a group as either can be beaten on drives. To me, these guys (one a senior, the other a freshman) are the consummate "glue" guys this season. To put them on the same line, as was the case before this new approach, seems redundant. Splitting them up adds a glue guy to both the first and second team while keeping at least a passable offensive threat outside at the three point line to spread the floor. I don't care who says what about Tyler, kid can hit a three, and I don't mind his taking that shot.

Second, now with Jones being the "glue" guy in the starting lineup, it moves Sulaimon to the 2nd string. Timing wise, this means Rasheed, who is pretty clearly in the class of an ACC starter, matches up much more against 2nd stringers for other teams. To me, this is the definition (and value) of a true 6th man. He takes over as the primary ball distributor in Cook's absence on the 2nd unit as he can create for himself and penetrate, something which the 1st unit already has in Cook, Hood, and Parker. Rasheed becomes the focus of the opposing team's defense while the starters are resting. The opponent can't relax on D thereby spending even more energy. Not to mention the fact that Andre Dawkins is running off baseline screens, a player you just can't leave...ever, set by two guys that earn a living setting screens - Josh Hairston and Marshall Plumlee.

Then the starters come back in rested - able to exert maximum energy yet again. Hood takes over Dawkins' 3-bombing role*, Parker is the focus of the defense, the floor is spread for a heck of a rebounder in Amile who has no big bodies clogging the lane on his own team (namely, Josh and Marsh), Thornton is making scrappy plays that seem to promote run-outs. And run-out opportunities are probably maximized on this team with Quinn-Hood-Parker-Jefferson in the game (as opposed to the reasonable substitute for any of them).

Not to mention, the game is so fun to watch - both because of the speed and because we get to see so many players on the court.

It just all seems to work. The more I think about it, the more I like it. And I admit wholeheartedly that the idea never once crossed my mind as even remotely likely.

*Back to me calling out Rodney as essentially a 3-bomber. If there's one thing I think we need to be a truly elite team, it's Rodney figuring out what Rasheed has. When you look at Rasheed now, he has a certain swagger that he didn't have earlier in the year. He is aggressive, but smartly - slashing into lanes, finding open guys, and not forcing the issue once he gets close. I admit that Rasheed looks to get off his feet too much and then get caught in the air looking for passes, many of which (perhaps luckily) find a man. But aside from that one shameless irritant that I just had to vent, look at how Rasheed has turned a corner. I believe Rodney needs a bit of that himself. He has all the skills to beat his man and drive and the height to find open guys. Yet he seems to do a shimmy at the three point line, see a man and back it out. I'm not sure if it's by design or not, but if Rodney can get into the lane with more efficiency, I think it opens up Parker and Amile even more, and I think this team becomes truly elite. So yeah, Rodney - I'm calling you out.

Nice win! 4-2 and looking good.

- Chillin
Line change has helped Rasheed the most. He is the man with that group with Dawkins is his elite shooting outlet. The other three play tenacious D and are experienced. It is a very solid group for 10 minutes a game. After warming up, Sheed is ready for prime time. K will keep it going until it starts not to be productive. But I think it is getting into the heads of opponents.

Rickshaw
01-23-2014, 06:33 AM
I think Jabari is just practicing.................might as well practice blocking shots as let the other guy practice
shots.

kAzE
01-23-2014, 07:05 AM
I think Jabari is just practicing.................might as well practice blocking shots as let the other guy practice
shots.

Nah, this guy is on the right track:


Sorry if this has already been answered, but I didn't see it when I was skimming the pages. Kevin Garnett was the first person I remember doing it and it was so the player wouldn't see the ball go through the basket to give them the confidence of a made shot.

It's all about demoralizing the opponent. It just makes it seem even more difficult to get a bucket. As a shooter, if you don't see the ball go through the hoop, you just can't get a feel for your shot. I like it, and and I don't mind if Jabari keeps doing it. It's a sign that he's become more committed to defense, which has been markedly improved these past 2 games.

arnie
01-23-2014, 07:17 AM
Thrilled to see that Coach K continues to utilize his very talented bench.
Still can't understand why Coach Capel even owns, let alone would wear a Carolina blue colored suit.

His brother first tried to give it to Goodwill, and they refused it.

NYBri
01-23-2014, 07:45 AM
Brian Davis

He of the white wrist bands. Loved his game.

Indoor66
01-23-2014, 07:51 AM
for any who needed further confirmation that this was a good game....we shot up from #18 to #12 kenpom....and pulled the defense efficiency some 4 points better

i know the teams are relatively closely packed in that range...but still a good jump.

Gee, I would have never known had the wonks made their declaration. :mad:

davekay1971
01-23-2014, 08:01 AM
Brian Davis is one of my three or four favorite Duke men's players ever. I forget what his "skill set" (are we still saying that?) was exactly. I was young, but I think defense was involved. I just watched two documentaries involving Patrick Ewing, and no one referred to him as a "rim protector," but these were made in 2006. I think protecting the rim was part of his skill set, except when he gave Carolina ten free points in the 1982 Final on goaltending. I suppose the rim still got protected, for its own sake.

I remain utterly mystified about how good this 2014 MBB Duke team is.

BD was a great glue guy. During his senior year, he seemed perfectly comfortable to the offensive option number 5 on the same court with Laettner, Hurley, T Hill, and G Hill. And BD, who was very athletic but only a so-so shooter from any range and not a guy who could create for himself off the dribble, benefitted a great deal from all the attention his more offensively gifted floor mates. He could sky and he could finish, as evidenced from his emphatic jam against UNLV in the 1991 game, and he got his points from open mid-range looks and jams. His biggest contribution was using his athleticism for defense and rebounding. Most importantly, he gave great effort on the court and he relished his role. While BD is not one of my all time fave Duke players, his value to the 1991 and 1992 championship teams was immense. He was definitely one of those guys who was more than his stat line.

As for this 2014 team, and how good they are: they're a heck of a lot better than they were two weeks ago. Then, they were a mediocre team with potential to be much much better. Now, they're a very good team, with potential to still be better. How good will they be in 6 weeks? That's the question I can't figure out. Somewhere between very good and national championship contender would be my best guess.

CDu
01-23-2014, 08:33 AM
Despite having a rough (for this team) shooting night, we still won going away. Very nice! It can't be understated that Miami is a bad offensive team, but we did what we're supposed to do against bad offensive teams and held them to an awful offensive night. Had we been hitting from 3, it could have been a 30+ point game. Regardless, I'll take a 20+ point win on the road in the ACC. Good stuff.

I loved Jefferson's play. He had several big moments. His overall statline looks less than the eye test would have suggested - I guess he just seemed to get loud baskets.

Sulaimon really seems to be finding his role. That's a big deal. He is such a versatile weapon, and we need him playing at a high level. 9 points, 4 assists, 1 turnover.

Equally important is the resurgence of Parker. 17 points, 15 rebounds, 3 blocks. He was a huge presence on both ends of the floor. He's still a work in progress on defense, but he was making plays throughout last night and again looked like the best player in the conference.

Cook had a very shaky game. He is credited with only 2 turnovers per ESPN, but I counted 3 or 4 passes that were turnover-worthy. I guess they credited those 1-2 extra turnovers to the pass receiver, but the passes were the problem on those plays. And the 2 turnovers he got were just awful examples of trying to make the fancy pass. We need him to play better against good teams.

I really like Jones' demeanor and effort out there. He's not as polished offensively as his high school reputation suggested, but he's a TERRIFIC defender. He's a good pairing with Cook, Hood, and Parker (3 guys who are good offensively but not so good defensively).

One thing I did notice: when we applied full court pressure with Hood on the inbounds guy, Hood twice got burned by turning his back after the pass and not hustling with the inbounder. Once it resulted in the odd double-foul (should have been a block, for whatever reason the officials waffled and called it a double-foul). The other fortunately didn't hurt us. But if we're going to extend pressure, guys have to pay attention and extend the effort too.

Anyway, I'm very pleased with the win. It was a complete victory as we won every phase of the game. We need to build on that as the quality of competition is about to go up.

wsb3
01-23-2014, 08:39 AM
Do is anyone know how to get links to Coach K's post game press when we are on the road?

Home games it is always up on GoDuke but not for road or neutral court sites.

Inside Carolina always links Roy's & dadgummit I do love a Roy press conference after they lose. Coach K just looks in you in the eye after a loss with no excuses while Roy just says one stupid thing after another. He really does look like Huckleberry Hound after a loss. It is entertaining.

Thank you.

Saratoga2
01-23-2014, 08:40 AM
I no longer listen to any Duke games with sound. Dickie V pushed me to that point last year and I haven't looked back since.

I use the mute button a lot when Dickie V is spouting about all sorts of unrelated things. Last night he started on Peyton Manning. My wife and I laughed over his persistent talk about the three P's and then we muted.

The best color man is Bobby Knight. He talks about the game and will tell it truthfully. Dickie is always ingratiating himself by praising the good play at that moment. Does he ever identify who the foul was on or what is happening on the floor?

Dev11
01-23-2014, 08:45 AM
I use the mute button a lot when Dickie V is spouting about all sorts of unrelated things. Last night he started on Peyton Manning. My wife and I laughed over his persistent talk about the three P's and then we muted.

The best color man is Bobby Knight. He talks about the game and will tell it truthfully. Dickie is always ingratiating himself by praising the good play at that moment. Does he ever identify who the foul was on or what is happening on the floor?

For the first time last night, I muted the game, sometime early in the second half. I watched the rest in silence. I think Vitale has lost his mind.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 08:48 AM
For the first time last night, I muted the game, sometime early in the second half. I watched the rest in silence. I think Vitale has lost his mind.

You missed the hilarious attempts to get Miami to miss shots. Some Duke fan had an electronic synthesizer of sorts. It was pretty priceless.

oldnavy
01-23-2014, 09:03 AM
For the first time last night, I muted the game, sometime early in the second half. I watched the rest in silence. I think Vitale has lost his mind.

I muted it as soon as I saw Vital on the screen. My wife came home and walked into the room, saw the TV on and no sound and said "ya'll got Vital tonight, don't you?"...

Vital is too much. He adds NOTHING of importance to the game, just and incessant stream of babble about how great ______ is and yada, yada, yada. He distracts me to the point I cannot enjoy what is taking place on the floor. The problem may lie within me, but I have found a solution... mute it!

However, I loved Jeff Van Gundy and Bilas during the UNC/VA game... Van Gundy made a comment about interviewing coaches during the game... he said that he'd rather see them interview a random fan or the refs.... priceless... AND it makes sense... when has a coach EVER said anything "enlightening" in one of these in-game blow by interviews??

Love him or hate him, but give me a Richard Sherman interview any day of the week... now that's entertainment!!

fidel
01-23-2014, 09:27 AM
Does anybody know where to go for =/- info? I'd like to see how the teams are matching up, with all the swizzling that we are doing with the lineups.

Rasheed has become downright aggressive. Wonderful to see him back in the swing of things.

MChambers
01-23-2014, 09:29 AM
Does anybody know where to go for =/- info? I'd like to see how the teams are matching up, with all the swizzling that we are doing with the lineups.

Rasheed has become downright aggressive. Wonderful to see him back in the swing of things.

http://www.scacchoops.com/tt_Game_Box_Score_External.asp?hSchedule=20067&hGame=3049&bView=1&BoxScore=1

Reilly
01-23-2014, 09:35 AM
... He adds NOTHING of importance to the game ....

What are you saying -- that talking about how Syracuse should build a statue to Jim Boeheim before he dies is not important to the Duke/Miami game?

I let him get through that, and then when I heard him revving up to "defend Duke" and "what's not to like" I immediately clicked the mute (since I'm familiar with how many national championships Duke has won) and enjoyed the blessed silence for the remainder of the game.

Matches
01-23-2014, 09:37 AM
I was quite pleased with this one. It was ugly at times but Miami makes games ugly. The game was never seriously in doubt after halftime and I thought our defense was stout throughout. Yes they are terrible on offense but we still defended well.

Overall I'm psyched about the direction in which this team seems to be headed. There is still work to be done but things definitely are moving in the right direction.

Also for whatever it's worth Vitale annoyed me less last night than he usually does. I think he draws some of his over-the-top-ness from the crowd, and the crowd was utterly dead.

timmy c
01-23-2014, 09:40 AM
What are you saying -- that talking about how Syracuse should build a statue to Jim Boeheim before he dies is not important to the Duke/Miami game?

I let him get through that, and then when I heard him revving up to "defend Duke" and "what's not to like" I immediately clicked the mute (since I'm familiar with how many national championships Duke has won) and enjoyed the blessed silence for the remainder of the game.

You will find the info. you are looking for at scACChoops site:
Box score with individual +/- (http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=20067&bView=0)
Lineups +/- (http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=20067&bView=10)

It’s interesting to note that Rasheed has a +13 for the game, while Jabari and Rodney posted +22's. However, Rasheed was part of the lineup that was the most effective at +11. Not surprising that lineup was: Amile Jefferson - Jabari Parker - Quinn Cook - Rasheed Sulaimon - Rodney Hood.

CDu
01-23-2014, 09:45 AM
I muted it as soon as I saw Vital on the screen. My wife came home and walked into the room, saw the TV on and no sound and said "ya'll got Vital tonight, don't you?"...

Vital is too much. He adds NOTHING of importance to the game, just and incessant stream of babble about how great ______ is and yada, yada, yada. He distracts me to the point I cannot enjoy what is taking place on the floor. The problem may lie within me, but I have found a solution... mute it!

However, I loved Jeff Van Gundy and Bilas during the UNC/VA game... Van Gundy made a comment about interviewing coaches during the game... he said that he'd rather see them interview a random fan or the refs.... priceless... AND it makes sense... when has a coach EVER said anything "enlightening" in one of these in-game blow by interviews??

Love him or hate him, but give me a Richard Sherman interview any day of the week... now that's entertainment!!

Wholeheartedly agree about Van Gundy. He just seems to get it. He still knows basketball very well (Vitale knew some basketball at one point, but that may have been a long time ago), and he still takes the time to analyze the game. At the same time, he understands the entertainment side of it too. So he has a nice balance of analysis and amusement. He's probably the best. Hubie Brown and Bobby Knight also nail it on the analysis side (though I think Knight is slipping on that front), but they don't have the on-air personality that Van Gundy brings. Bilas COULD fall in the same category, but he tends to get on his soapbox too much.

Vitale is an icon of college basketball. He's been a very big part of making the college game more mainstream. His enthusiasm has helped to draw in the casual fan. During the late-80s and early-90s, he was instrumental in promoting the sport. So I don't want to just bad-mouth him completely. But now that the sport is so big nationwide, he's now more a relic than anything of value. As has been said, he doesn't do his homework, he doesn't provide analysis of the game, and he spends most of his time talking about random non-college basketball sports topics.

Channing
01-23-2014, 09:48 AM
A couple thoughts I had:

(1) This was a game that reminded me of the Duke teams while I was in school (2000-2004). Not necessarily the makeup of the team, but the fact that we went into the house of an over matched opponent and, even though we didn't play our best game, we won handily. It is a real luxury to point out flaws in a 20+ point win. Earlier in the season we let the over matched teams hang around and keep the game closer than necessary because our defense was useless. Not this time.

(2) I think Amile is finally getting comfortable with his added size. Remember, this guy was like a stick figure last year, and probably for most of his life. He has added some bulk and is still learning how to use it. His ability to handle the ball (which is way better than I thought) and his competence on offense put him squarely in the running to continue developing into a real valuable player. Duke seems to, over the past decade, have had a 4 who took a while to develop "useful" skills and brought toughness and leadership (McClure, Thomas, Hairston (to an extent)). Amile seems poised to fill that role, but with much more offensive fire power than any of those guys ever had.

(3) Quinn Cook concerns me. Perhaps I just don't understand, but his BBall IQ doesn't seem to be all that high on a regular basis. Too often he seems to hoist shots early in the shot clock, or look to call his own number rather than be a facilitator. I have no doubt the staff is working with him on those issues, and hopefully there is more good Quinn and less head-scratching Quinn from here on out.

(4) Is Dawkins a captain? If not, hopefully he gets made a captain at some point; I think he has earned it and really deserves it. He shows leadership, has clearly worked on his defense, and has become a key piece of our rotation.

roywhite
01-23-2014, 09:49 AM
The one negative that sticks with me the day after a good win was the erratic play of Quinn Cook during stretches. He made some drives and pass attempts that had very little chance of success. Quinn's focus seems to wander and at his experience level and ability, it's troubling to see such mistakes. We won't have much margin for error in games at Pitt and Syracuse.

On the other hand, I like seeing more of Rasheed as a playmaker with the ball; that's been a big plus and can also be a reasonable alternative to Quinn's episodes brain freeze.

moonpie23
01-23-2014, 09:53 AM
For the first time last night, I muted the game, sometime early in the second half. I watched the rest in silence. I think Vitale has lost his mind.

tune your radio to bob harris……watch the play you just heard on the radio unfold before your eyes on the screen…


i'm hooked

jv001
01-23-2014, 09:56 AM
Very well played game by Duke in a game that I was concerned about. An ACC road win even against a woeful offensive team makes me happy. I agree with several other posters that the substitution pattern has helped Duke. Especially on defense. Coach K commented in his post game interview that our depth helps us keep our defensive intensity. If that's the case, I look for the line change to continue because Coach loves defense(so do I). Some stats: Rasheed had 9 pts, 2-5 FTs, 4 assists and 1 TO. Parker had 17 pts, 15 rebs, 0 assists and 4 TO, Hood had 12 pts, 6 rebs, 3 assists, 0 TO, 2 stls. Amile had 8 pts, 7 rebs, 3 blocks, 1 stl. Quinn had 8 pts, 4 assists, 2 TO. Andre had 6 pts, 3 stls in 10 minutes, Josh had 2 pts, 1 reb, 4 fouls in 8 minutes, Marshall had 0 pts, 2 rebs, 1 blk in 7 minutes. Matt played great defense and was steady. Coach K also praised Amile's for his rebounding and energy. I believe he even said that Jabari played off Amile's intensity. GoDuke!

FerryFor50
01-23-2014, 09:57 AM
The one negative that sticks with me the day after a good win was the erratic play of Quinn Cook during stretches. He made some drives and pass attempts that had very little chance of success. Quinn's focus seems to wander and at his experience level and ability, it's troubling to see such mistakes. We won't have much margin for error in games at Pitt and Syracuse.

On the other hand, I like seeing more of Rasheed as a playmaker with the ball; that's been a big plus and can also be a reasonable alternative to Quinn's episodes brain freeze.

Quinn likes to get a little too fancy and doesn't seem to always understand his role is distributor first, scorer second. Too often, he shoots more than he should.

Don't get me wrong, Cook can score. He just needs to realize when Duke NEEDS him to score and when they NEED him to distribute.

CDu
01-23-2014, 09:58 AM
(2) I think Amile is finally getting comfortable with his added size. Remember, this guy was like a stick figure last year, and probably for most of his life. He has added some bulk and is still learning how to use it. His ability to handle the ball (which is way better than I thought) and his competence on offense put him squarely in the running to continue developing into a real valuable player. Duke seems to, over the past decade, have had a 4 who took a while to develop "useful" skills and brought toughness and leadership (McClure, Thomas, Hairston (to an extent)). Amile seems poised to fill that role, but with much more offensive fire power than any of those guys ever had.

I am not sure if it is getting comfortable with his added size (he doesn't look much bigger to me), but he's clearly finding his role. He's devoted himself to getting rebounds in traffic and has become quite good at it. If he can improve his defense the way he has improved his rebounding, the sky is the limit for him on the defensive side of the floor. He could be like a Hakim Warrick or Antonio Lang, but with better rebounding ability. I'm VERY pleased with his development as this season has progressed.


(3) Quinn Cook concerns me. Perhaps I just don't understand, but his BBall IQ doesn't seem to be all that high on a regular basis. Too often he seems to hoist shots early in the shot clock, or look to call his own number rather than be a facilitator. I have no doubt the staff is working with him on those issues, and hopefully there is more good Quinn and less head-scratching Quinn from here on out.

The thing about Cook is that at times he shows fantastic basketball IQ and the skill to back it up. His control of the late-game situation is at times stunningly good (I remember his Curly Neal impression early last year in closing out some tough pre-season contests). But then at other times he makes some really awful decisions with either his shot or his passing. He's frustrating that way. You know how good he can be, but it just seems like his head isn't in the game at all times.

That being said, he's such a good fit for the team emotionally that I can't stay mad at him. He seems to be SO well-liked, and his enthusiasm is infectious. We absolutely need him; it would just be nice if he could get better at limiting those "what are you thinking?" plays. If he does that, then his play will be through the rough (it's already very good an aggregate).

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 10:08 AM
The one negative that sticks with me the day after a good win was the erratic play of Quinn Cook during stretches. He made some drives and pass attempts that had very little chance of success. Quinn's focus seems to wander and at his experience level and ability, it's troubling to see such mistakes. We won't have much margin for error in games at Pitt and Syracuse.

On the other hand, I like seeing more of Rasheed as a playmaker with the ball; that's been a big plus and can also be a reasonable alternative to Quinn's episodes brain freeze.

I have to 100% agree. Quinn's play was disappointing yesterday. His first half was good, his D looked a lot better (although he was defending a Belgian. Every player looks great defending a Belgian!), and he celebrated a lot with his teammates.

But with Rasheed in the game, we didn't lose that much. The passing is probably a little better, the defense is better, and the size is absolutely better (is it me, or did Rasheed grow an inch or two?). As Miami didn't apply that much ball pressure, Quinn's importance as a ball handler wasn't as important during this game.

When Quinn starts losing focus, I would like to see Rasheed subbed in for Quinn. A line-up of Rasheed-Jones/Thornton-Hood-Parker-Jefferson has a great combination of size, outside shooting, team player, and rebounding. Plus, Rasheed is slowly learning to play with Hood and Parker. I like Rasheed leading the second unit, but I feel he can also play with the first unit.

Sidenote: I really like Thornton as a player, but he shouldn't be playing the 1. His offensive skillset and defensive skillset are so much better for the 2 than the 1. With Quinn and Rasheed, do we really need Tyler to ever play the 1?

Sidenote #2: Coming into this season, I had read and heard that M. Jones was the best 3pt shooter in his class. Is this correct? If so, what happened? Jones is still a good shooter, but his form, his slight hesitation to shoot, and the fact that he doesn't have carte blanche to shoot all strikes me as odd for the #1 shooter in his class.

FerryFor50
01-23-2014, 10:19 AM
I have to 100% agree. Quinn's play was disappointing yesterday. His first half was good, his D looked a lot better (although he was defending a Belgian. Every player looks great defending a Belgian!), and he celebrated a lot with his teammates.

But with Rasheed in the game, we didn't lose that much. The passing is probably a little better, the defense is better, and the size is absolutely better (is it me, or did Rasheed grow an inch or two?). As Miami didn't apply that much ball pressure, Quinn's importance as a ball handler wasn't as important during this game.

When Quinn starts losing focus, I would like to see Rasheed subbed in for Quinn. A line-up of Rasheed-Jones/Thornton-Hood-Parker-Jefferson has a great combination of size, outside shooting, team player, and rebounding. Plus, Rasheed is slowly learning to play with Hood and Parker. I like Rasheed leading the second unit, but I feel he can also play with the first unit.

Sidenote: I really like Thornton as a player, but he shouldn't be playing the 1. His offensive skillset and defensive skillset are so much better for the 2 than the 1. With Quinn and Rasheed, do we really need Tyler to ever play the 1?

Sidenote #2: Coming into this season, I had read and heard that M. Jones was the best 3pt shooter in his class. Is this correct? If so, what happened? Jones is still a good shooter, but his form, his slight hesitation to shoot, and the fact that he doesn't have carte blanche to shoot all strikes me as odd for the #1 shooter in his class.

I think Sheed needs to stay with the 2nd unit. His game is that of a "top banana," so he should get every opportunity to play his game. He wouldn't be able to do that as well with the first unit. With them, he'd need to be a drive and dish guy, which he is getting better at, but needs to keep working on.

Troublemaker
01-23-2014, 10:20 AM
As for this 2014 team, and how good they are: they're a heck of a lot better than they were two weeks ago. Then, they were a mediocre team with potential to be much much better. Now, they're a very good team, with potential to still be better. How good will they be in 6 weeks? That's the question I can't figure out. Somewhere between very good and national championship contender would be my best guess.

I think Duke's the best team in the ACC and a national championship contender. I just hope our ACC record reflects these things when it's all said and done. Lots of work to do. Hard work. Like winning at Pitt or sweeping Syracuse or going undefeated against the rest. Don't have to do them all. But have to do some.



I loved Jefferson's play. He had several big moments. His overall statline looks less than the eye test would have suggested - I guess he just seemed to get loud baskets.

AND..... he's a good center! :D


Do is anyone know how to get links to Coach K's post game press when we are on the road?

Haven't you noticed? I get them for you because I'm awesome. (You can find them on youtube usually).



(4) Is Dawkins a captain? If not, hopefully he gets made a captain at some point; I think he has earned it and really deserves it. He shows leadership, has clearly worked on his defense, and has become a key piece of our rotation.

I agree. I think there's a chance. He's been a great teammate this season.

CDu
01-23-2014, 10:22 AM
Sidenote: I really like Thornton as a player, but he shouldn't be playing the 1. His offensive skillset and defensive skillset are so much better for the 2 than the 1. With Quinn and Rasheed, do we really need Tyler to ever play the 1?




Sidenote #2: Coming into this season, I had read and heard that M. Jones was the best 3pt shooter in his class. Is this correct? If so, what happened? Jones is still a good shooter, but his form, his slight hesitation to shoot, and the fact that he doesn't have carte blanche to shoot all strikes me as odd for the #1 shooter in his class.

I don't know whether or not he was considered the #1 shooter in the class, but he absolutely was regarded by all accounts as a terrific shooter. There were many folks making references to Ray Allen. I can sort of see the comp, as his release is lighting-quick like Allen's once he decides to shoot it.

I don't worry about the form. That's apparently just how he shoots. Form is overrated as an issue, in my opinion: good form is any form that produces made baskets and can be easily replicated by the shooter. If that's how Jones naturally shoots, and if that has worked for Jones in the past, then I'm fine with it.

There are lots of reasons why the results may not look good. One is that it's a small sample size. He's 3-18 on the season from 3pt range and 22-33 from the line. Given that small of a sample, any number of things could be the culprit: not getting enough looks to get comfortable; pressing a bit trying to impress; nerves associated with playing on a high stage; thinking too much against better competition; fatigue from the extra effort on defense; or just random chance. Hopefully now that he's playing more, we'll see his shot return to form. Definitely something to keep an eye on moving forward.

jv001
01-23-2014, 10:26 AM
I think Sheed needs to stay with the 2nd unit. His game is that of a "top banana," so he should get every opportunity to play his game. He wouldn't be able to do that as well with the first unit. With them, he'd need to be a drive and dish guy, which he is getting better at, but needs to keep working on.

I agree. Keep Rasheed right where he is. He's the best playmaker on the 2nd unit that features our best 3 point shooter(Andre). For the most part, Andre does not create his own offense and needs someone like Rasheed to get him the ball. Matt needs to be on the first unit for his defense and steady play. As the game goes on, Rasheed has been in the same five with Jabari, Rodney and Amile. The fifth player comes from Quinn, TT or Andre. I think we'll see Rasheed in the lineup come crunch time. He runs the delay game better than Quinn, imo. GoDuke!

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 10:34 AM
I agree. Keep Rasheed right where he is. He's the best playmaker on the 2nd unit that features our best 3 point shooter(Andre). For the most part, Andre does not create his own offense and needs someone like Rasheed to get him the ball. Matt needs to be on the first unit for his defense and steady play. As the game goes on, Rasheed has been in the same five with Jabari, Rodney and Amile. The fifth player comes from Quinn, TT or Andre. I think we'll see Rasheed in the lineup come crunch time. He runs the delay game better than Quinn, imo. GoDuke!

So does Hood ;). In all honesty, that was one of my favorite irrelevant shots in Duke history. It had absolutely no outcome or importance on the game, but it was just awesome.

Hood is the closest thing Duke has had to a ninja: a player who just racks up points in such a silent way. Plus, his lack of emotion after a dunk or 3pt shot is just so ninja-esque.

jv001
01-23-2014, 10:40 AM
So does Hood ;). In all honesty, that was one of my favorite irrelevant shots in Duke history. It had absolutely no outcome or importance on the game, but it was just awesome.

Hood is the closest thing Duke has had to a ninja: a player who just racks up points in such a silent way. Plus, his lack of emotion after a dunk or 3pt shot is just so ninja-esque.

Hood has a very good handle for someone that's 6'8". He uses his left hand so much you would think he's limited with his right. Just when I think that, he does something with his right that makes me go WOW!. I loved that 3 as well. GoDuke!

Billy Dat
01-23-2014, 10:48 AM
I am not sure if it is getting comfortable with his added size (he doesn't look much bigger to me), but he's clearly finding his role. He's devoted himself to getting rebounds in traffic and has become quite good at it. If he can improve his defense the way he has improved his rebounding, the sky is the limit for him on the defensive side of the floor. He could be like a Hakim Warrick or Antonio Lang, but with better rebounding ability. I'm VERY pleased with his development as this season has progressed.

The thing about Cook is that at times he shows fantastic basketball IQ and the skill to back it up. His control of the late-game situation is at times stunningly good (I remember his Curly Neal impression early last year in closing out some tough pre-season contests). But then at other times he makes some really awful decisions with either his shot or his passing. He's frustrating that way. You know how good he can be, but it just seems like his head isn't in the game at all times.

That being said, he's such a good fit for the team emotionally that I can't stay mad at him. He seems to be SO well-liked, and his enthusiasm is infectious. We absolutely need him; it would just be nice if he could get better at limiting those "what are you thinking?" plays. If he does that, then his play will be through the rough (it's already very good an aggregate).

I agree with both observations. Amile has carved out his role better than anyone on the team. He is a perfect example of the McDs AA type of guy who progresses according to the old model...maybe plays behind some talented veterans his freshman year, steps into a prominent rotation role his second year, and then fully flowers during his last two years. I think he's got upside on both sides of the ball and is a guy who should make those "glue guy" beat writer lists this year. Quinn needs to be aggressive, I actually think he is appropriately aggressive on offense with his shooting, but he tends to take at least one horrible shot and make 1-2 horrible passes, usually on fast breaks, that stand out. Like Amile has done, he needs to discover his optimal role and play it every game.


I think Sheed needs to stay with the 2nd unit. His game is that of a "top banana," so he should get every opportunity to play his game. He wouldn't be able to do that as well with the first unit. With them, he'd need to be a drive and dish guy, which he is getting better at, but needs to keep working on.

No doubt. All the coach talk while he was in his funk was about how he needed to figure out a "new part to play". I think the coaches finally decided that they were trying to change him too much and that he essentially wanted more shots and freedom on offense. The second team provides that for him and he looks positively giddy as he goes into attack mode on every play. If we stick with this platoon system, it will be interesting to see how quickly opposing coaches realize that they need to double Rasheed, stick a guy like glue on Andre no matter where he is, and allow Tyler, Josh or MPIII to try and score.

Other observations:
-The rebounding differential was amazing. At one point, I actually thought we were outrebounding them on the offensive glass and losing on the defensive side. We are getting extremely adept at offenisve rebounding, led by Amile, which is giving me warm and fuzzies thinking back to down-the-stretch Zoubek.
-Jabari is playing with a lot more confidence and zip. His work on the glass was fantastic. I would like to see him work more agressively to get the ball in better spots, but I also think the team, especially Quinn, needs to focus on getting him touches in and around the paint. Good things happen when he gets those interior catches and collapses the defense. Ditto for Amile, I didn't think we did a good enough job throwing the ball inside against that zone. But, we preferred to attack it with high screens, dribble drives and kicks, and we hit enough 3s to keep them from packing the paint. Had we not offensive rebounded so well, and gotten so many second chance points, out initial strategy for attacking the zone may have come under heavier criticism.

TROUBLEMAKER - Thanks for posting the press conference. I love watching those and a few things stood out:
-If you recall, we had a really bad stretch from 17-15 mins left in the second half where they cut the lead to 12 after a few really bad possessions by us. K called out MPIII's block and rebound as two huge stops that cut the run and got us back up 15+, after which there was never really another scare.
-He talked about the first half platoon system and how the idea is to force another team to use its bench earlier than they want, in addition to trying to force a quicker pace. He said it only works if you don't foul because fouling stops the game and gives the other team a chance to keep its breath. Personally, I also think it keeps players 6-10 engaged in the action and excited to play.
-As a man who usually keeps laser focus on what's going on, K took the bait when asked about his Team USA players in the audience and spoke for several minutes about them and got into "funny joking K" mode. He said he's like Lebron to teach Jabari how to actually hold onto the ball when he goes coast-to-coast. When someone asked if he thought Jabari could make an Olympic team, K said something along the lines of, "I think guys like Paul George would have something to say about that"...and went on to praise Durant as someone who was "way far ahead" of the current freshman when he was a freshman at Texas adding, "Come on, we're talking about the second best player in the world..." and went on to say that for guys like Durant and LBJ, it all starts with how much they love the game, something like, "I mean, Durant plays every day...I mean every day".
-Talking about the players in attendance, after naming LBJ, Wade, Kobe, Shane and Ryan, he added, "And some of their teammates were here, like Kendall Marshall, it was good to see him too."

Troublemaker
01-23-2014, 10:53 AM
Sidenote #2: Coming into this season, I had read and heard that M. Jones was the best 3pt shooter in his class. Is this correct? If so, what happened? Jones is still a good shooter, but his form, his slight hesitation to shoot, and the fact that he doesn't have carte blanche to shoot all strikes me as odd for the #1 shooter in his class.

As a huge Matt Jones fan and someone who was confident his shot would come around this season, I'm now beginning to think his shot will come around next season.

Seems like a Ryan Kelly situation at this point. Kelly, a great shooter, shot 26% from 3 his freshman year and 32% from 3 his sophomore year. Finally, in his junior and senior seasons, Ryan showed his great shooting ability and shot 40+%: http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=2738

The 3-pt line IS a foot longer in college than in high school. That could be a factor. New shooting backgrounds could be as well. And he's a freshman -- new school environment, team environment, all of that he has to adjust to. When JJ Redick was traded to Milwaukee last season, JJ shot 32% from 3 for the Bucks.

Kedsy
01-23-2014, 10:56 AM
It can't be understated that Miami is a bad offensive team, but we did what we're supposed to do against bad offensive teams and held them to an awful offensive night.

I agree. I'd also point out that according to Pomeroy, Miami has a better offense (#183) than Clemson (#187), and yet we gave up 72 points at Clemson. This game was worlds better than that. This team needed a win on the road, and we got a very nice one.

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 11:00 AM
As a huge Matt Jones fan and someone who was confident his shot would come around this season, I'm now beginning to think his shot will come around next season.

Seems like a Ryan Kelly situation at this point. Kelly, a great shooter, shot 26% from 3 his freshman year and 32% from 3 his sophomore year. Finally, in his junior and senior seasons, Ryan showed his great shooting ability and shot 40+%: http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/players/statlines.php?playerid=2738

The 3-pt line IS a foot longer in college than in high school. That could be a factor. New shooting backgrounds could be as well. And he's a freshman -- new school environment, team environment, all of that he has to adjust to. When JJ Redick was traded to Milwaukee last season, JJ shot 32% from 3 for the Bucks.

I think you're right about M. Jones. I think his rep as a shooter is too good for him to be shooting poorly this season. With regards to JJ, I'm not sure it was the new environment but rather very poor coaching by Jim Boylan. It's not a coincidence that JJ succeeded under Van Gundy and Rivers.

johnb
01-23-2014, 11:01 AM
I use the mute button a lot when Dickie V is spouting about all sorts of unrelated things. Last night he started on Peyton Manning. My wife and I laughed over his persistent talk about the three P's and then we muted.

The best color man is Bobby Knight. He talks about the game and will tell it truthfully. Dickie is always ingratiating himself by praising the good play at that moment. Does he ever identify who the foul was on or what is happening on the floor?

Vitale's job isn't to do play-by-play; that's for the interchangeable, solid guys next to him.

Dickie supplies the enthusiasm of someone who was coaching elementary school basketball in 1959 and is soon to turn 75. To me, he's a little annoying when he riffs on teams and players from all over the country during a close game, but it's probably fairly difficult to comment for two hours on a game without wandering a little. Knight is great, but most of the color guys seem to enjoy creating entertainment by criticizing Duke or wondering vaguely why we get the calls, etc.

And I'll miss him when he hangs up the mike

flyingdutchdevil
01-23-2014, 11:05 AM
Vitale's job isn't to do play-by-play; that's for the interchangeable, solid guys next to him.

Dickie supplies the enthusiasm of someone who was coaching elementary school basketball in 1959 and is soon to turn 75. To me, he's a little annoying when he riffs on teams and players from all over the country during a close game, but it's probably fairly difficult to comment for two hours on a game without wandering a little. Knight is great, but most of the color guys seem to enjoy creating entertainment by criticizing Duke or wondering vaguely why we get the calls, etc.

And I'll miss him when he hangs up the mike

You're right, but in a weird way.

Listening to Vitale is like eating porridge - you initially hate it. When you stop eating it, you are happy. But over time, you miss porridge. Decades later, when your same, old breakfast foods aren't exciting, you begin to really miss porridge.

CDu
01-23-2014, 11:07 AM
Vitale's job isn't to do play-by-play; that's for the interchangeable, solid guys next to him.

There is more to covering a game than play-by-play. It is true that Vitale's job isn't to do play-by-play. His job IS to provide commentary and insight on the game, though. And he doesn't really do that anymore (debatable whether he ever did).


Dickie supplies the enthusiasm of someone who was coaching elementary school basketball in 1959 and is soon to turn 75. To me, he's a little annoying when he riffs on teams and players from all over the country during a close game, but it's probably fairly difficult to comment for two hours on a game without wandering a little. Knight is great, but most of the color guys seem to enjoy creating entertainment by criticizing Duke or wondering vaguely why we get the calls, etc.

And I'll miss him when he hangs up the mike

I mentioned earlier in this thread, but Vitale has been instrumental in the rise of college basketball in the mainstream media. His enthusiasm helped build the fanbase for the sport over two decades of growth. But now, the sport is dominant. So what he brings in value is less important than it was 30 years ago. And, as you note, he's getting old. It's hard to remain on your game as you get older.

For folks who are tuned in for the game looking for a color commentator to provide actual analysis of the game, Vitale just isn't good at that. That's not ever been his strength. And it is not why he has stayed in business for so long.

I like the fact that Vitale says positive things about Duke. But that doesn't really outweigh the lack of insight he provides to the game now. Unfortunately, because he has been so instrumental in the game's rise in popularity, he has earned a somewhat permanent place on air until he decides to hang it up. And he doesn't seem close to doing so.

Billy Dat
01-23-2014, 11:10 AM
I agree. I'd also point out that according to Pomeroy, Miami has a better offense (#183) than Clemson (#187), and yet we gave up 72 points at Clemson. This game was worlds better than that. This team needed a win on the road, and we got a very nice one.

Yes, I forgot to mention that just getting an ACC road win was huge, and we've had some tough outings in that gym in years when Miami was supposed to be down. I thought the help defense was, in general, much much better. Aside from one complete breakdown I recall when Amile's man was driving and there was zero help, we were quick to rotate. There was also a stretch where we figured out a pattern of them driving off screens and got a steal and a few near steals when they help quickly shot up and surprised the Miami dribbler as they turned the corner off the screen. Limiting their second shots for most of the game helped too.

We are headed in the right direction as we face a very tough stretch of the season. 4 of the next 6 on the road, trips to Pitt and Syracuse, the UNC game at the Dome, a very solid Florida State squad to start it off...things are about to get really interesting.

Kedsy
01-23-2014, 11:15 AM
It is true that Vitale's job isn't to do play-by-play. His job IS to provide commentary and insight on the game, though. And he doesn't really do that anymore (debatable whether he ever did).

I once happened upon a broadcast on ESPN Classic of a college game from the '80s. The color commentary guy was really good. His voice was vaguely familiar but for a moment I couldn't place it. When I realized it was Vitale (without the shouting), I listened closely for awhile longer and was amazed at how good his commentary and insights were. So, he did it, but it was a long time ago.

timmy c
01-23-2014, 11:25 AM
I think you're right about M. Jones. I think his rep as a shooter is too good for him to be shooting poorly this season. With regards to JJ, I'm not sure it was the new environment but rather very poor coaching by Jim Boylan. It's not a coincidence that JJ succeeded under Van Gundy and Rivers.

Shooters in high school do not usually have to learn to shoot tired. In addition, they tend to get plenty of shots. Matt is getting far fewer looks each game and he’s still learning how to shoot after working harder on the defensive end than he had to in high school.

I also expect his percentage will rise meaningfully over the next few years.

oldnavy
01-23-2014, 11:31 AM
I once happened upon a broadcast on ESPN Classic of a college game from the '80s. The color commentary guy was really good. His voice was vaguely familiar but for a moment I couldn't place it. When I realized it was Vitale (without the shouting), I listened closely for awhile longer and was amazed at how good his commentary and insights were. So, he did it, but it was a long time ago.

He was good once. But now, his shtick is just to be very excited and heap praise on everything and everyone in a very loud and annoying manner, sort of the anti-Elmore who is a negative Nellie in a soft, annoying manner.

Vitale is like an old vaudeville act that should have retired about 15 years ago... and it's sad because I really think he is a great person with a huge heart.

Wander
01-23-2014, 11:31 AM
Obviously a different type of player, but we saw this with Ryan Kelly too - reputation as a good three point shooter, but his percentages for his entire first two seasons were pretty bad.

alteran
01-23-2014, 11:34 AM
3) Why does Jabari always block opponents' shots after the ref calls a whistle? Personally, I find it slightly disrespectful...



In past days I'd agree with you. But with some of the continuation the officials give these days, it seems like basketball malpractice NOT to block after the whistle.

Lar77
01-23-2014, 11:37 AM
There is more to covering a game than play-by-play. It is true that Vitale's job isn't to do play-by-play. His job IS to provide commentary and insight on the game, though. And he doesn't really do that anymore (debatable whether he ever did).



I mentioned earlier in this thread, but Vitale has been instrumental in the rise of college basketball in the mainstream media. His enthusiasm helped build the fanbase for the sport over two decades of growth. But now, the sport is dominant. So what he brings in value is less important than it was 30 years ago. And, as you note, he's getting old. It's hard to remain on your game as you get older.

For folks who are tuned in for the game looking for a color commentator to provide actual analysis of the game, Vitale just isn't good at that. That's not ever been his strength. And it is not why he has stayed in business for so long.

I like the fact that Vitale says positive things about Duke. But that doesn't really outweigh the lack of insight he provides to the game now. Unfortunately, because he has been so instrumental in the game's rise in popularity, he has earned a somewhat permanent place on air until he decides to hang it up. And he doesn't seem close to doing so.

Good points on Vitale. I agree he has been a major factor in the rise in popularity of college basketball, mainly due to his enthusiasm. I don't mind him as much as others do - he's there and, as you point out, he will be there for quite a while. Maybe as he gets older, ESPN will consider 3 commentators - a play by play man, Vitale as historian/cheerleader/showman/whatever, and a young color guy that you normally see on ESPNU. Sort of like old MNF.

Kedsy
01-23-2014, 11:38 AM
Obviously a different type of player, but we saw this with Ryan Kelly too - reputation as a good three point shooter, but his percentages for his entire first two seasons were pretty bad.

I agree. Ryan and Matt both have unorthodox-looking shots, which may play into it as well. If you're not textbook it might take longer to learn not to rush, etc., when shooting. The game has to slow down before you can get comfortable taking the shot your way.

Jarhead
01-23-2014, 12:03 PM
Good points on Vitale. I agree he has been a major factor in the rise in popularity of college basketball, mainly due to his enthusiasm. I don't mind him as much as others do - he's there and, as you point out, he will be there for quite a while. Maybe as he gets older, ESPN will consider 3 commentators - a play by play man, Vitale as historian/cheerleader/showman/whatever, and a young color guy that you normally see on ESPNU. Sort of like old MNF.

For a day or so after any Duke game I enjoy reading the comments from everybody, except those comments directed at Dick Vitale. As grating as he is, the ubiquitous commentary on his faults and contributions are painful. Enough, already. Let's talk about basketball, not Vitale.

Olympic Fan
01-23-2014, 12:14 PM
Obviously a different type of player, but we saw this with Ryan Kelly too - reputation as a good three point shooter, but his percentages for his entire first two seasons were pretty bad.

Add Shane Battier's experience ... he hit 16.7 percent from 3 as a freshman (4 of 24). He was shooting just as badly through the first half if his sophomore year when he saw that documentary about the Tibetan monks. He broke out with a huge 3-point game against Maryland and was one of the great 3-point shooters in Duke history from that point on -- well over 40 percent.

Maybe K could find a tape of that documentary and show it to Matt.

Dev11
01-23-2014, 12:18 PM
Add Shane Battier's experience ... he hit 16.7 percent from 3 as a freshman (4 of 24). He was shooting just as badly through the first half if his sophomore year when he saw that documentary about the Tibetan monks. He broke out with a huge 3-point game against Maryland and was one of the great 3-point shooters in Duke history from that point on -- well over 40 percent.

Maybe K could find a tape of that documentary and show it to Matt.

...and for over a decade now, Shane Battier has been collecting checks in the NBA, a good portion of them being earned behind the three-point line. I hope it turns out that way for Ryan and Matt down the road.

bob blue devil
01-23-2014, 12:43 PM
Excellent game for the good guys. Yes, Miami isn't great, but nobody has hammered them like we did. On the road no less. This was taking care of business the way an elite team should - very encouraging.

I continue to be in the 'let's see more sheed at the 1 with the starters camp'. Of course, I was in that camp during the offseason as well. Then, as now, the argument starts with defense.

timmy c
01-23-2014, 12:44 PM
Add Shane Battier's experience ... he hit 16.7 percent from 3 as a freshman (4 of 24). He was shooting just as badly through the first half if his sophomore year when he saw that documentary about the Tibetan monks. He broke out with a huge 3-point game against Maryland and was one of the great 3-point shooters in Duke history from that point on -- well over 40 percent.

Maybe K could find a tape of that documentary and show it to Matt.

I need to see this documentary! Maybe it could turn me from a below average DBR poster into a Jason Evans like savant???

Timmy "my three-point shot could always use some help too" C.

daveyro
01-23-2014, 01:11 PM
Vitale's job isn't to do play-by-play; that's for the interchangeable, solid guys next to him.

Dickie supplies the enthusiasm of someone who was coaching elementary school basketball in 1959 and is soon to turn 75. To me, he's a little annoying when he riffs on teams and players from all over the country during a close game, but it's probably fairly difficult to comment for two hours on a game without wandering a little. Knight is great, but most of the color guys seem to enjoy creating entertainment by criticizing Duke or wondering vaguely why we get the calls, etc.

And I'll miss him when he hangs up the mike

Vitale is terrible. He spends too much time talking about who played high school with who, and other teams and coaches. But he has less than 5 adjectives. "Are you Kidding me" He's (a PTP'r) a tremendous talent, a superstar. I expect the color guy to add insight. Why was the weakside help late? Should the players roll or pop on as screen? The best is Bobby Knight. In tennis, McEnroe is amazing at expaining nuances. Phil Sims or Moose Johnson in NFL. DV adds no value. We don't need entuhusiasm from him - the crowds and ourselves proive that. I want insights.

ArnieMc
01-23-2014, 01:15 PM
. . . Jabari had a technical foul called on him when he missed a dunk and held on to the rim - because Miami's guard (#20) was pushing him from behind (no call except the technical) . . . Jabari was holding onto the rim with one hand and swatting the ball with the other. That's an auto-tech.


. . . 42 - 28 rebound advantage, with Duke getting 15 offensive rebounds; 7 "team" rebounds, which indicates several guys going after the ball . . . I think that "team" rebounds indicates that Miami knocked the rebound out of bounds.

Also, my favorite part of the Vitale performance was that he didn't spend time praising unc.

brevity
01-23-2014, 01:22 PM
4) Amile is just amazing. He's so agile and springy as a 5. Next year, can he play the 4 for Duke? Has Duke ever had a 4 who couldn't hit a jumpshot?


Brian Davis

Brian Davis was automatic when his foot was on the three-point line.

MChambers
01-23-2014, 01:29 PM
Jabari was holding onto the rim with one hand and swatting the ball with the other. That's an auto-tech.

I think that "team" rebounds indicates that Miami knocked the rebound out of bounds.

Also, my favorite part of the Vitale performance was that he didn't spend time praising unc.
Don't team rebounds also include missed free throws, when they are the first of two (or the first and second of three)?

fidel
01-23-2014, 01:41 PM
The rebounding differential was amazing. At one point, I actually thought we were outrebounding them on the offensive glass and losing on the defensive side. We are getting extremely adept at offenisve rebounding, led by Amile, which is giving me warm and fuzzies thinking back to down-the-stretch Zoubek.

'Positively Zoubesque' is what I am thinking. Great to see the will to dominate the boards. All those second chances (and second chances for them denied) tilt the game.

pfrduke
01-23-2014, 01:47 PM
Don't team rebounds also include missed free throws, when they are the first of two (or the first and second of three)?

No - those are counted as deadball rebounds and not attributable to either team.

Clay Feet POF
01-23-2014, 01:53 PM
[QUOTE=Gmadaduke;696773]Can't say just how much I've enjoyed watching Amile last few games. Assertive down low, but more importantly, knows his role, doesn't force the game and plays with a great basketball IQ. Very impressive for a young player.

As well as Amile is rebounding I’m noticing flashes of a really good offensive player. Right now he’s a dedicated rebounder, but as the players around him continue to develop, I expect to see him have a lot more offensive moves. If that occurs I would expect there will be more options in the Line Changes. It will result in more match up problems for opposing teams and maybe help us go deeper into the NCAAT. This team is really becoming a TEAM with everyone contributing.

Kedsy
01-23-2014, 02:38 PM
Don't team rebounds also include missed free throws, when they are the first of two (or the first and second of three)?

No. In the play-by-play, those are listed as team rebounds, but they don't end up in the box score.

alteran
01-23-2014, 02:41 PM
I once happened upon a broadcast on ESPN Classic of a college game from the '80s. The color commentary guy was really good. His voice was vaguely familiar but for a moment I couldn't place it. When I realized it was Vitale (without the shouting), I listened closely for awhile longer and was amazed at how good his commentary and insights were. So, he did it, but it was a long time ago.

So true.

I loved his enthusiasm back then, when it served as a counterpoint to his excellent commentary based on knowledge. He assuredly was doing homework back then. Now he is in a habit of spewing out an increasingly limited set riffs-- it's easy to forget the guy was a bball coach with years of experience who really knew his stuff.

He's a great guy, make no mistake. I just can't listen to him any more.

jjasper0729
01-23-2014, 03:00 PM
No. In the play-by-play, those are listed as team rebounds, but they don't end up in the box score.

Actually, dead ball rebounds are in the box score. They are not, however, listed in the team numbers with the players (and the row for team stats, which can include rebounds and turnovers).

See this picture:

https://twitter.com/dukeblueplanet/status/426182089814589440/photo/1

The dead ball rebounds are listed to the bottom right of each team's box. Dead ball rebounds are awarded on a missed freethrow (if another free throw is to take place, so first of two/first two of three) and/or the whistle is blown while the ball is still in play (not blown because the ball has gone out of bounds or the rebounding player is out of bounds, which would be a team rebound).

For instance, Jabari goes up for a shot, it bounces out and before Amile can touch the ball for the rebound and the ball is still in the air, McAdoo pushes him in the back, resulting in a foul on McAdoo (I know, wishful thinking that a 'hole would get a whistle blown against him in this scenario). The ball is still in play, the whistle has blown without a player controlling it so its' a dead ball rebound to Duke.

throatybeard
01-23-2014, 03:02 PM
You're right, but in a weird way.

Listening to Vitale is like eating porridge - you initially hate it. When you stop eating it, you are happy. But over time, you miss porridge. Decades later, when your same, old breakfast foods aren't exciting, you begin to really miss porridge.

What exactly is porridge? Is it oatmeal or something?

I always wondered why the Three Bears were eating it but never stopped to consider what it was.

sagegrouse
01-23-2014, 03:07 PM
What exactly is porridge? Is it oatmeal or something?

I always wondered why the Three Bears were eating it but never stopped to consider what it was.

Porridge is basically grain cooked with mater or milk until it softens and achieves a soupy consistency: grits, cream of white, oatmeal are all porridges. alhtoug I don't have any idea what "pease porridge [hot]" is -- you know, from the old nursery rhyme.

devildeac
01-23-2014, 03:23 PM
Porridge is basically grain cooked with mater or milk until it softens and achieves a soupy consistency: grits, cream of white, oatmeal are all porridges. alhtoug I don't have any idea what "pease porridge [hot]" is -- you know, from the old nursery rhyme.

Seek and ye shall find:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pease_Porridge_Hot

"The origins of this rhyme are unknown. The name refers to a type of porridge made from peas, pease pudding, also known in Middle English as pease pottage. ("Pease" was treated as a mass noun, similar to "oatmeal", and the singular "pea" and plural "peas" arose by back-formation.)"


I didn't know WTH it was either:o .

CDu
01-23-2014, 03:34 PM
42 - 28 rebound advantage, with Duke getting 15 offensive rebounds; 7 "team" rebounds, which indicates several guys going after the ball

I don't disagree with the overarching sentiment in this post, but I feel the need to clarify something on the bolded part because I think this is a common misconception. "Team" rebounds don't really indicate anything other than that a missed shot was not collected by a player. Most of the time, these occur because the ball went out of bounds:

Team offensive rebounds generally occur because of one of the following:
- Defensive player blocks a shot out of bounds
- Defensive player fumbles/tips the ball out of bounds

Team defensive rebounds generally occur because of one of the following:
- shot goes directly out of bounds, or over the backboard (which is out of bounds)
- offensive player knocks the ball out of bounds.

Duke had 3 team offensive rebounds: a transition shot that was tipped out of bounds by the defense; a Miami player fumbled the rebound out of bounds; and a Miami player blocked a shot out of bounds.

We had 4 team defensive rebounds: Parker blocked a shot off a Miami player and out of bounds; a Miami player fumbled an offensive rebound out of bounds; a missed free throw bounced over the top of the backboard; and a Miami player tipped the shot out of bounds.

Of course, none of this is meant to say we didn't do a great job on the glass or that we didn't have multiple guys doing good work on the boards. Just that "team" rebounds aren't the stat to use to make that point.

Sorry for the nitpick.

Kfanarmy
01-23-2014, 03:42 PM
What exactly is porridge? Is it oatmeal or something?

I always wondered why the Three Bears were eating it but never stopped to consider what it was.

You might have stopped and asked them, instead of running out the door with that blonde. (LOL...low impulse control today)

MChambers
01-23-2014, 04:07 PM
Sorry for the nitpick.
You mean a statpick.

No need to apologize. Detailed explanations of statistics are appreciated by the many nerds here.

Gooch
01-23-2014, 07:42 PM
The thing about Cook is that at times he shows fantastic basketball IQ and the skill to back it up. His control of the late-game situation is at times stunningly good (I remember his Curly Neal impression early last year in closing out some tough pre-season contests). But then at other times he makes some really awful decisions with either his shot or his passing. He's frustrating that way. You know how good he can be, but it just seems like his head isn't in the game at all times.

That being said, he's such a good fit for the team emotionally that I can't stay mad at him. He seems to be SO well-liked, and his enthusiasm is infectious. We absolutely need him; it would just be nice if he could get better at limiting those "what are you thinking?" plays. If he does that, then his play will be through the rough (it's already very good an aggregate).

I also love the chemistry among the guys this year and I think Quinn has a big role in that. I went to the UCLA game and it was great to see everyone so excited for Sheed's "comeback". I love with the hockey-style line changes everyone still gets fired up for great play even though the starters might be getting fewer minutes. Great adaptation to the strengths of this team by K and the staff.

swagilicious
01-23-2014, 08:37 PM
I also love the chemistry among the guys this year and I think Quinn has a big role in that. I went to the UCLA game and it was great to see everyone so excited for Sheed's "comeback". I love with the hockey-style line changes everyone still gets fired up for great play even though the starters might be getting fewer minutes. Great adaptation to the strengths of this team by K and the staff.

I haven't seen anyone really bring this up, but you think alex murphy would have transferred if coach k had decided to start playing the bench earlier in the season?

MCFinARL
01-23-2014, 08:52 PM
Porridge is basically grain cooked with mater or milk until it softens and achieves a soupy consistency: grits, cream of white, oatmeal are all porridges. alhtoug I don't have any idea what "pease porridge [hot]" is -- you know, from the old nursery rhyme.

Grain cooked with mater? Are the upper classes putting their mothers in the breakfast cereal now?

Troublemaker
01-23-2014, 09:00 PM
I haven't seen anyone really bring this up, but you think alex murphy would have transferred if coach k had decided to start playing the bench earlier in the season?

Very doubtful. Alex would've just taken Semi's place as the 11th man, no? That is, play ~5 min some games and ~0 min in others. Also, Alex's prospects for playing time in his final two seasons would've still seemed dire, no?

I think Alex and his family wanted more than that. As a redshirt sophomore, they were hoping he would be solidly in the rotation this season and have a good chance to start in his final two seasons. Hopefully he gets a good chance to start at Fla, a program that is losing a bunch of seniors in the frontcourt after this season.

Also, Coach K didn't just "start" playing his bench recently. For most of the season, he had been playing an 8.5 man rotation, which is on par with if not lengthier than most other contenders' rotations. Recently, the coaches figured out that this team needed to go even deeper, and so now we play an insanely deep 10.5 man rotation, which is much deeper than most other contenders' rotations.

Duvall
01-23-2014, 09:01 PM
I haven't seen anyone really bring this up, but you think alex murphy would have transferred if coach k had decided to start playing the bench earlier in the season?

Would Murphy have been one of the ten players playing?

Newton_14
01-23-2014, 09:35 PM
Would Murphy have been one of the ten players playing?
His only chance would have been replacing Josh as the PF in the 2nd group, and I think the odds of that were steep. The only other option would have been replacing Tyler, with Rasheed moving to the point, and Andre/Murph on the wings. That would have been even less likely.

Sadly, despite being a highly athletic, great kid, Murphy's downfall was lack of an outside shot, and lack of both confidence and focus. I hate it because I am a huge fan of the kid. He did have a great ability to put it on the floor and take it to the basket, and use that high level athletic ability to either finish or draw the foul. Even there though, he was not a good free throw shooter. He actually had some really good moments in a few games last year too, but just could not sustain it for some reason.

On some of the past Duke teams, Alex could have probably found a spot in the rotation as a solid role player, think 2006 for example, but there were just too many better players in front of him these past 3 yrs. I will always believe K expected him to start and play a lot of minutes as a true freshman, but the lack of confidence and then the concussion derailed that.

Troublemaker
01-23-2014, 09:35 PM
A couple more thoughts about the game:


Amile picked up a foul within the first twenty seconds of the game. Yet he finished the game with just two fouls and played a season-high 32 minutes. His foul rate has been steadily declining all season. Which is crucial because we need him on the court; as I wrote elsewhere, Amile is our 2nd-most important player after Jabari. So, now add fouling less to the list of things he's improved, including rebounding, an uptick of shotblocking, post defense and team defense. Very proud of this young man. He's improved as much from the beginning of the season to the middle of the season as probably any Duke player I can remember.
Favorite play of the game? When Matt Jones and Miami's center Jekiri grabbed onto a rebound simultaneously, but it was Matt who outfought the center, snatching the ball away, and in the process flipped Jekiri over onto the ground before Matt walked away with the ball. Awesome stuff to behold.

throatybeard
01-23-2014, 09:44 PM
("Pease" was treated as a mass noun, similar to "oatmeal", and the singular "pea" and plural "peas" arose by back-formation.)"

One wonders why they decided they needed to start counting individual peas. Maybe that big famine in 1315.

swagilicious
01-23-2014, 10:31 PM
Sadly, despite being a highly athletic, great kid, Murphy's downfall was lack of an outside shot, and lack of both confidence and focus.

Focus and confidence are two things that are hard to come by when you sit on the bench the whole season...

porkpa
01-24-2014, 06:35 AM
I need to preface this by saying that I love Coach K and nobody respects him and his achievements more than I do. Who am I to question arguably the greatest coach in basketball history?
Nevertheless, if he has or has had a fault it has been IMO a lack of empathy for the kids who have sat on the bench through the years. Its difficult for me to place myself in the heads of these kids who have worked so hard and have achieved so much prior to coming to Duke. Then, for whatever reasons they get relegated to the bench and rarely, if ever get a chance to get out of what I perceive to be his doghouse.
The other side of this argument of course is that if one wants playing minutes t Duke, one needs to earn them. However as the previous poster said how do you earn significant playing time if you are not able to play? Moreover, if you aren't allowed to play, what does it do to your psyche and self confidence?
Thankfully, this appears to have changed somewhat this year. He is using his bench far more and to much better advantage than I've seen him do in all his years at Duke. Its not only helping his kids, but I see it as also helping his team and certainly himself and his staff.

gus
01-24-2014, 08:03 AM
However as the previous poster said how do you earn significant playing time if you are not able to play?

We as fans base our opinions on players on games, and now YouTube clips. The coaching staff is less limited: they have many hours of practice and face to face interaction. That's where players earn playing time.

Coach K is judged by wins and championships, not on whether he's unable to empathize* with the 11th and 12th option on the bench. You shouldn't be surprised that he approaches coaching from this perspective, and not like a little league coach who gets everyone on the court.


* a characterization I disagree with btw.

oldnavy
01-24-2014, 09:03 AM
Focus and confidence are two things that are hard to come by when you sit on the bench the whole season...

I agree.

But, could it be possible that this is like the chicken and egg question? Maybe they are sitting on the bench because they have not demonstrated swag and confidence in practice... and IF that is the case (that would be my bet), would you really want a coach to play guys in games that don't prove themselves in a much more "forgiving" practice scenario??

I pulled hard for Alex, but for whatever reason, he did not get much playing time. I hope he excels at Florida and maybe he will, sometimes a change of venue is all that it takes.

bob blue devil
01-24-2014, 10:01 AM
Nevertheless, if he has or has had a fault it has been IMO a lack of empathy for the kids who have sat on the bench through the years. Its difficult for me to place myself in the heads of these kids who have worked so hard and have achieved so much prior to coming to Duke. Then, for whatever reasons they get relegated to the bench and rarely, if ever get a chance to get out of what I perceive to be his doghouse.

First, I think it's absurd to comment on coach k's empathy without seeing what goes on behind closed doors. Second, Duke is an elite basketball program. Players that want to win basketball games come to Duke. If k's first priority was throwing guys a bone, he'd be doing a disservice to all the guys (like Hood and Parker) who came to duke to win. Folks know what they are signing up for and if they change their mind they are free to leave.

Ps I think k does give upperclassman, like Hairston, a greater benefit of the doubt.

flyingdutchdevil
01-24-2014, 10:06 AM
First, I think it's absurd to comment on coach k's empathy without seeing what goes on behind closed doors. Second, Duke is an elite basketball program. Players that want to win basketball games come to Duke. If k's first priority was throwing guys a bone, he'd be doing a disservice to all the guys (like Hood and Parker) who came to duke to win. Folks know what they are signing up for and if they change their mind they are free to leave.

Ps I think k does give upperclassman, like Hairston, a greater benefit of the doubt.

Coach K gives preference to players he trusts. There is indeed a correlation to age and trust, and Coach K has seen 3.5 years of Hairston. He completely and utterly understands what Hairston can and cannot do. So, he plays players that he trusts (Hairston not playing much these days is a great sign of trust for other players, especially Amile). He clearly didn't have faith in what Murphy could do on the floor.

There are some players, like Marty Poctius, who are incredibly talented but didn't get off the bench because Coach K didn't have full faith in them. Marty was inconsistent on O and had pretty terrible D. That type of play isn't going to gain you Coach K's trust.

COYS
01-24-2014, 10:25 AM
Ps I think k does give upperclassman, like Hairston, a greater benefit of the doubt.

I think this is a frequently mentioned misrepresentation of how Coach K operates. Hairston is short at 6'7'' but is far stronger and bigger than other options at his position over the past few seasons. He's also been more experienced than the other options. This year, as Amile has cut down on his fouls, improved his defense, and become a big time rebounder, he has cut into Josh's minutes. In addition, Marshall has shown enough improvement to warrant minutes. This has also cut into Josh's playing time. Josh and Marshall are more or less pure post players, and Amile has turned himself into one. Alex never showed a real proclivity for playing in the post. His competition was with our plethora of wing players including Rasheed, Rodney, Andre, and Matt along with the minutes that Tyler spends at the 2 spot. All of those guys have more to offer the team than Alex did at this point in his development. Count me as one who was really excited when Alex committed to Duke. I really thought he was going to become a very good player and possibly a star. I'm disappointed it didn't work out. However, Coach K's supposed deference to upperclassmen like Josh is not the reason things didn't work out with Alex. The bottom line is that Duke has a LOT of talented players on the roster. There's no shame for Alex to be maybe just a notch or two below two future lottery pick (Rodney and Jabari), another future NBA guard (Rasheed), one of the purest shooters in the nation in his fifth season (Andre), and a McDonald's All American freshman who adds value on defense (Matt). I'll be rooting for Alex to succeed at Florida. Meanwhile, it seems to me like things have worked out for everyone. Duke is well stocked at the combo forward spot this year with Jabari, Rodney, Amile, and Semi and for the near future with Justise Winslow, Semi, and Amile on the roster for next year. Meanwhile, Alex gets a chance to start fresh.

bob blue devil
01-24-2014, 10:54 AM
First, I think it's absurd to comment on coach k's empathy without seeing what goes on behind closed doors...

Porkpa - I'm sorry. Reading my post again and it comes across as way too harsh. You raised an interesting point, and I simply meant to disagree and counterpoint, but failed to do it well.
BBD

Channing
01-24-2014, 11:03 AM
Ps I think k does give upperclassman, like Hairston, a greater benefit of the doubt.

Not really related to your post, but I it is related to Hairston. I have been extremely critical of him in the past, and have often questioned whether he was a D-1 caliber player (let alone Duke caliber). However, I am not ruling out a Zoubekian (TM pending - DBR circa 2010) awakening for the second half of the season. Hairston's biggest problem has been an utter incompetence on offense. Clearly the mid range jumper is in his arsenal or he wouldn't have freedom to shoot it. To my view, he always just took an extra millisecond to think about his moves on the court, which made him look inept.

Two games ago I saw a move from him that I have never seen - the follow dunk. I have also seen some decent hands and finishes around the hoop. Defense has never been Hairston's problem. Though he may not be a lockdown defender, he is just as competent as some other options, especially to spell Amile. If he gains some offensive confidence and viability (and I am hopeful that he is going to "get it" one of these days and its going to be wonderful), I think he will be a clutch role player down the stretch. I'd love to see him just catch and shoot and elbow jumper, and not take a half-second to line it up. Get a rebound and explode back up for a put back / not bring the ball down.

bob blue devil
01-24-2014, 11:15 AM
Coach K gives preference to players he trusts. There is indeed a correlation to age and trust, and Coach K has seen 3.5 years of Hairston...

I'm glad we agree and that you articulated a reason why k might operate that way.


I think this is a frequently mentioned misrepresentation of how Coach K operates. Hairston is short at 6'7'' but is far stronger and bigger than other options at his position over the past few seasons. He's also been more experienced than the other options...

What you've done here is stated your opinion as fact. I disagree with your opinion. I'm not saying coach k blindly sticks with more experienced players or that they are completely unworthy. What I am saying (actually what I did say) was that I think k does give them a greater benefit of the doubt. If a freshman was playing like Hairston, I doubt he'd have seen nearly as much playing time as Hairston has this season.

BD80
01-24-2014, 11:48 AM
Grain cooked with mater? Are the upper classes putting their mothers in the breakfast cereal now?

Only those named Alma ...

gus
01-24-2014, 11:55 AM
I'm glad we agree and that you articulated a reason why k might operate that way.



What you've done here is stated your opinion as fact. I disagree with your opinion. I'm not saying coach k blindly sticks with more experienced players or that they are completely unworthy. What I am saying (actually what I did say) was that I think k does give them a greater benefit of the doubt. If a freshman was playing like Hairston, I doubt he'd have seen nearly as much playing time as Hairston has this season.

I don't think you guys are saying different things. Coach K tends to have more trust in upperclassmen.

porkpa
01-24-2014, 01:44 PM
No worries Bob.

wilko
01-24-2014, 05:29 PM
Maybe Im nuts...
But Jefferson has been playing out of his mind lately.... there was something in his game.... I couldnt quite place it... His game was reminding me of something I had seen before. then it hit me..

A YOUNG GT version of John Salley.... Not quite the same to be sure...
But long, lean, slightly awkward, somewhat smooth rebounding cagey around the hoop guy.

Then I could just be going senile

tommy
01-24-2014, 06:03 PM
Maybe Im nuts...
But Jefferson has been playing out of his mind lately.... there was something in his game.... I couldnt quite place it... His game was reminding me of something I had seen before. then it hit me..

A YOUNG GT version of John Salley.... Not quite the same to be sure...
But long, lean, slightly awkward, somewhat smooth rebounding cagey around the hoop guy.

Then I could just be going senile

Not senile, just forgetting that Salley was a pretty good scorer from the outset of his college career. He averaged 11.5 ppg as a freshman, compared to Amile's 4 ppg. But then again, Salley played way more minutes as a frosh than did Amile. Salley was a double digit scorer all four years at GT, going from 11.5 to 11.8, 14, and then 13.1 as a senior.

Amile is at 6.7 ppg in about 20 minutes this year, and I definitely think those numbers will go up as his career continues. Maybe even get to 13 or 14 a game like Salley did.

But Amile's rebounding numbers as a soph already have eclipsed Salley's sophomore performance on the boards.

I agree, somewhat similar body types, though Salley was (is) 6'11" and seemed even longer than that. Different styles though. I don't recall Salley having a nose for the ball like Amile does, or fighting and scrapping for the ball like Amile does. Salley also benefitted from playing two years, his soph and junior years if I'm not mistaken, next to Yvon Joseph, a wide-bodied center (who was later an epic flop in the NBA), whereas Amile has had to play out of position at center this year and battle the big bodies. Joseph took care of a lot of that for Salley, who could therefore play PF instead of center.

Bay Area Duke Fan
01-24-2014, 06:18 PM
Maybe Im nuts...
But Jefferson has been playing out of his mind lately.... there was something in his game.... I couldnt quite place it... His game was reminding me of something I had seen before. then it hit me..

A YOUNG GT version of John Salley.... Not quite the same to be sure...
But long, lean, slightly awkward, somewhat smooth rebounding cagey around the hoop guy.

Then I could just be going senile

As I recall, Salley was taller than Amile and was a better offensive player. Salley had a long and productive NBA career. By his senior year, Amile may become better than Salley was at GT.

brevity
01-24-2014, 09:40 PM
As I recall, Salley was taller than Amile and was a better offensive player. Salley had a long and productive NBA career. By his senior year, Amile may become better than Salley was at GT.

Salley also had a long and productive career on TV after the NBA. Great timing and sense of humor, during an era where irreverent sports coverage was a new thing. He was Charles Barkley without the cult of being Charles Barkley.

I look forward to former Duke players in similar roles. Battier could do it when he retires, if he's not interested in the whole Presidency thing.

throatybeard
01-24-2014, 10:24 PM
IIRC, GT retired the jerseys of Mark Price and John Salley simultaneously when I was in fourth grade and one Johnny Dawkins was a senior in college.