PDA

View Full Version : Syracuse C DaJuan Coleman Out For The Season



kAzE
01-21-2014, 11:53 AM
So, the Orange lose their starting center for the first 12 games, and probably their best low post guy, who's been dealing with knee issues. He was averaging about 4 points and 4 rebounds and 13 minutes played. They've been going with a committee at the 5 most of the year, but with the loss of Coleman, they will be forced to utilize Rakeem Christmas and Baye-Moussa Keita at that position. In my opinion, Coleman was the most talented of the 3, and easily the most physically imposing. Christmas is still a big dude at 6'9", 250, but this is a big loss, no doubt.

Troublemaker
01-21-2014, 12:04 PM
I don't think it's too damaging a loss for them. Last season, he hardly played at all from mid-Jan on. Christmas and Keita split the center minutes for the second half of last season all the way to the Final Four. Seems like it would just be a similar story this season. They're used to playing without him.

CDu
01-21-2014, 12:10 PM
So, the Orange lose their starting center for the first 12 games, and probably their best low post guy, who's been dealing with knee issues. He was averaging about 4 points and 4 rebounds and 13 minutes played. They've been going with a committee at the 5 most of the year, but with the loss of Coleman, they will be forced to utilize Rakeem Christmas and Baye-Moussa Keita at that position. In my opinion, Coleman was the most talented of the 3, and easily the most physically imposing. Christmas is still a big dude at 6'9", 250, but this is a big loss, no doubt.

It's a big loss for sure, but note that Coleman played, by far, the fewest minutes of their three-headed big man rotation. Christmas averages close to 21 mpg, and Keita averages over 16 mpg. Coleman averages just 13 mpg. He may well be the most talented of the three, though I might argue that Christmas is the most talented of the three. But regardless, that talent hasn't translated into much on-court production.

That being said, it definitely hurts them in terms of depth. Without him, if either Christmas or Keita gets in foul trouble then they are VERY thin up front.

kAzE
01-21-2014, 12:12 PM
True, they are used to playing without him, but per minute, he was statistically their most productive big. He just couldn't stay on the floor due to his knees.

As a side note, it is pretty strange to look at that Syracuse roster and see Michael Gbinije's name there. Gonna be weird to play against him and see him in another team's uniform.

Troublemaker
01-21-2014, 12:44 PM
Side note: I like Rakeem Christmas a lot. He's a typically great defensive big man at the back of that Cuse zone, but he can also hit jump hooks on offense and sports a 133 ORtg. Is it possible for a guy averaging 6 and 4 to be one of the top 3 centers in the conference due to an extreme combination of very low tempo (344th for Cuse), very low usage (12.6%), and splitting minutes at center? I'm leaning that way.

(My current top 4 ACC centers: 1. Zanna 2. Christmas 3. Miller 4. Amile)

DukieInBrasil
01-21-2014, 12:49 PM
True, they are used to playing without him, but per minute, he was statistically their most productive big. He just couldn't stay on the floor due to his knees.

As a side note, it is pretty strange to look at that Syracuse roster and see Michael Gbinije's name there. Gonna be weird to play against him and see him in another team's uniform.

to be fair, we hardly saw him in a Duke uniform either. I wish him the best, just not a W in the games vs Duke.

CDu
01-21-2014, 12:55 PM
Side note: I like Rakeem Christmas a lot. He's a typically great defensive big man at the back of that Cuse zone, but he can also hit jump hooks on offense and sports a 133 ORtg. Is it possible for a guy averaging 6 and 4 to be one of the top 3 centers in the conference due to an extreme combination of very low tempo (344th for Cuse), very low usage (12.6%), and splitting minutes at center? I'm leaning that way.

(My current top 4 ACC centers: 1. Zanna 2. Christmas 3. Miller 4. Amile)

I might also add that that list just illustrates how weak the C position is in the ACC this year. Several teams don't really have a post player; several others play a bunch of mediocre post players. So to even discuss Christmas among the list just emphasizes the lack of quality there.

But I would note that you've omitted a couple of pretty good players from your list: Sherman (Notre Dame) and Thomas (Wake). Sherman is averaging 14.6 ppg and 8.3 rpg while shooting over 50% from the field. Thomas is averaging 11.2 and 8.6 while shooting 54% from the field. I'd put those two along with Zanna, Miller, and Jefferson ahead of Christmas. Heck, I might even put Nnoko ahead of Christmas.

Don't be fooled by Christmas' ORtg. He pretty much only shoots layups and dunks, so he doesn't miss much. And he doesn't dribble or pass much, so he rarely risks a turnover. That, combined with a very low usage rate (see above that he pretty much only shoots very close to the rim, and is rarely called upon to create a scoring chance) will inflate your ORtg quite a bit.

He's a solid player, and a perfect fit on the back line of the Cuse zone. But he averages just 3.9 rpg in almost 21 mpg of play. That's not great from a C. He's just decent.

Troublemaker
01-21-2014, 01:25 PM
Yeah, I agree with you, CDu, on the ACC's relative lack of strength and true standouts at the C position. It's definitely in the eye of the beholder and kind of tough to separate and rank a pretty mediocre group of centers (but I enjoy doing it regardless).

If I had extended my list a bit, you definitely named the three guys I would've put next in line in Nnoko, Sherman, and Thomas.

I'm not too impressed with Sherman and Thomas even though they have decent counting numbers. They are relatively high-usage guys relied on for their offense, but they both have sub-100 ORtgs. Sherman, for example, doesn't finish all that well inside and doesn't get to the line enough. I like the overall games of the other centers I listed better.

I think Christmas is better than decent (and I think his rebounding rate is hurt by playing in a zone), but reasonable minds can disagree. Eye of the beholder and all.

CDu
01-21-2014, 03:31 PM
Yeah, I agree with you, CDu, on the ACC's relative lack of strength and true standouts at the C position. It's definitely in the eye of the beholder and kind of tough to separate and rank a pretty mediocre group of centers (but I enjoy doing it regardless).

If I had extended my list a bit, you definitely named the three guys I would've put next in line in Nnoko, Sherman, and Thomas.

I'm not too impressed with Sherman and Thomas even though they have decent counting numbers. They are relatively high-usage guys relied on for their offense, but they both have sub-100 ORtgs. Sherman, for example, doesn't finish all that well inside and doesn't get to the line enough. I like the overall games of the other centers I listed better.

I think Christmas is better than decent (and I think his rebounding rate is hurt by playing in a zone), but reasonable minds can disagree. Eye of the beholder and all.

I would caution against relying on ORtg for comparison here. ORtg is negatively correlated with usage, so higher-usage players will tend to have lower ORtg. Sherman is asked to carry a large scoring load inside for the Irish, and sees lots of tough defense. That results in lower FG% and more turnovers. Christmas is not asked to shoot at all unless he gets the ball in prime scoring position (either off an offensive rebound or a drive-and-dish situation). That results in higher FG% and fewer turnovers. ORtg does not adjust for these things, so ORtg will make a guy like Christmas look much better than a guy like Sherman.

[Note: this is a similar issue when comparing a catch-and-shoot guy to a playmaker. ORtg is inherently going to favor the lower-usage, high-percentage catch-and-shoot guy to the playmaker, because the playmaker will generally take tougher shots and commit more turnovers.]

I'd say that Christmas is better than Sherman and Thomas on defense, but Sherman and Thomas are better on offense and rebounding. Hence I'd give them the edge over Christmas. I just can't justify such a low-usage player being placed ahead of higher-usage guys. There's a reason that they're higher-usage guys, after all.

OldPhiKap
01-21-2014, 03:58 PM
Best wishes for a full recovery.

burnspbesq
01-21-2014, 05:47 PM
Thomas is solid, but he's the only guy in the league that the Crazies can greet with "your sister's better."