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Channing
01-15-2014, 09:41 AM
This game had one of the best finishes I have seen in a while. A buzzer beater 3 to send the game into overtime, and then a buzzer beater put pack dunk to give Ark the victory. What a fun game to watch. If you didn't watch the game, I would recommend catching the highlights at ESPN.com.

Though this UK recruiting class was lauded as the greatest class of all time, and they may still come together, they don't seem to compare to the Anthony Davis class.

FerryFor50
01-15-2014, 10:06 AM
This game had one of the best finishes I have seen in a while. A buzzer beater 3 to send the game into overtime, and then a buzzer beater put pack dunk to give Ark the victory. What a fun game to watch. If you didn't watch the game, I would recommend catching the highlights at ESPN.com.

Though this UK recruiting class was lauded as the greatest class of all time, and they may still come together, they don't seem to compare to the Anthony Davis class.

40-0!!!

http://www.40and0.com/product/men-s-tee

CDu
01-15-2014, 10:21 AM
This game had one of the best finishes I have seen in a while. A buzzer beater 3 to send the game into overtime, and then a buzzer beater put pack dunk to give Ark the victory. What a fun game to watch. If you didn't watch the game, I would recommend catching the highlights at ESPN.com.

Though this UK recruiting class was lauded as the greatest class of all time, and they may still come together, they don't seem to compare to the Anthony Davis class.

To be fair, that Anthony Davis class had a LOT more help from the upperclassmen than this year's class does.

The 2012 UK team had 3 star freshmen who played huge roles. But they also got huge contributions from Lamb (soph), Jones (soph), and Miller (senior). Those guys all averaged 9.9 ppg or more, and each provided 26+ mpg.

This year, UK relies on 6 freshmen and gets meaningful minutes from just 2 sophomores (though neither of those sophomores are giving them as much as Lamb or Jones gave the 2012 team). And the get basically no assistance from their upperclassmen (mainly because all of the upperclassmen candidates have gone pro or transferred).

I'd posit that this year's class is not TOO far off of that 2012 class. The real problem is that the sophomore class and upperclassmen aren't nearly in the same league as the 2012 team.

And that's the real danger of Calipari's approach: unless you get lucky and get enough good players to return and add the right freshmen, it's very hard to maintain success year to year with a completely new roster.

uh_no
01-15-2014, 12:42 PM
there was something i'd never seen before too....the AK guy stole the ball and was trying to save it from going out so he flipped it back inbounds....where it glanced the ref's face...an AK guy caught it in bounds and went down for a breakaway slam.....but since it touched the ref, the ref was standing out of bounds, the ball is out of bounds. UK got to inbounds...so AK had a turnover at no fault of their own.

of course UK promptly got a back court violation so all was well :D

tommy
01-15-2014, 03:17 PM
There was also some absolutely terrible refereeing in this game. All I saw was the overtime. But on one play an Arkansas player dove for a ball heading out of bounds, got it, and slid out of bounds, barely if at all touched by any Kentucky players. The refs not only didn't call him out of bounds, but called a foul on Kentucky. Wrong and wrong.

Then, one of the Harrisons drove the lane for an easy bucket and the ref called a foul on the shot for an and-one. Replays showed that there was absolutely zero contact between the players.

God knows what else happened in the first 40 minutes of the game, but if the zebras' performance in the OT was indicative of how they called the entire game, they have no business refereeing major college basketball.

CDu
01-15-2014, 03:26 PM
There was also some absolutely terrible refereeing in this game. All I saw was the overtime. But on one play an Arkansas player dove for a ball heading out of bounds, got it, and slid out of bounds, barely if at all touched by any Kentucky players. The refs not only didn't call him out of bounds, but called a foul on Kentucky. Wrong and wrong.

Then, one of the Harrisons drove the lane for an easy bucket and the ref called a foul on the shot for an and-one. Replays showed that there was absolutely zero contact between the players.

God knows what else happened in the first 40 minutes of the game, but if the zebras' performance in the OT was indicative of how they called the entire game, they have no business refereeing major college basketball.

If it is the play I'm thinking of, I think Harrison WAS fouled. The announcers went on and on about the call, but it appeared to be correctly called a foul. Harrison drove, and as he took off his shoulder was grabbed from behind by #00 (whom he had beaten off the dribble). The foul (I think) got called on #2, who was the help defender and who didn't touch Harrison whatsoever. The announcers watched the replay 3 times and kept looking for a foul by #2 (to no avail), but they kept overlooking the foul by #00.

The grab of the shoulder caused Harrison to lose control of the ball and fumble it off the bottom of the backboard. He then hit the two free throws. While the officials may have called the foul on the wrong guy, they were correct in calling that foul.

That being said, I do agree that the officiating was REALLY poor in the overtime. For example, the over-and-back call on UK following the weird out-of-bounds-off-the-official's-face play was the result of a bump in the back by an Arkansas player - no call. That was just one of many examples of really bad reffing down the stretch.

Clay Feet POF
01-15-2014, 04:44 PM
This game had one of the best finishes I have seen in a while. A buzzer beater 3 to send the game into overtime, and then a buzzer beater put pack dunk to give Ark the victory. What a fun game to watch. If you didn't watch the game, I would recommend catching the highlights at ESPN.com.

The last play is such agreat teaching aid for Boxing out.

SupaDave
01-15-2014, 05:52 PM
This game had one of the best finishes I have seen in a while. A buzzer beater 3 to send the game into overtime, and then a buzzer beater put pack dunk to give Ark the victory. What a fun game to watch. If you didn't watch the game, I would recommend catching the highlights at ESPN.com.


The last play is such agreat teaching aid for Boxing out

Exactly what I thought. Amazing game. And those UK freshmen are just young. There's a lot going on and they are forgetting fundamental stuff. Randle not putting up his arms against shooters. Poor communication. Freshmen walls. Losing. Gonna be interesting to see them gut it out. Oh and the Harrison twins are terrible on defense - you heard it here first...

DukieInKansas
01-15-2014, 06:07 PM
there was something i'd never seen before too....the AK guy stole the ball and was trying to save it from going out so he flipped it back inbounds....where it glanced the ref's face...an AK guy caught it in bounds and went down for a breakaway slam.....but since it touched the ref, the ref was standing out of bounds, the ball is out of bounds. UK got to inbounds...so AK had a turnover at no fault of their own.

of course UK promptly got a back court violation so all was well :D

I believe that it doesn't matter where the ref is standing - the ref, himself, is considered out of bounds. Actually, I thought the player's foot landed out of bounds before the ball left his hand so that would have made it out of bounds whether it touched the ref or not.




There was also some absolutely terrible refereeing in this game. All I saw was the overtime. But on one play an Arkansas player dove for a ball heading out of bounds, got it, and slid out of bounds, barely if at all touched by any Kentucky players. The refs not only didn't call him out of bounds, but called a foul on Kentucky. Wrong and wrong.

Then, one of the Harrisons drove the lane for an easy bucket and the ref called a foul on the shot for an and-one. Replays showed that there was absolutely zero contact between the players.

God knows what else happened in the first 40 minutes of the game, but if the zebras' performance in the OT was indicative of how they called the entire game, they have no business refereeing major college basketball.

I'm pretty sure it was a KY player that slid out of bounds with the ball on that play before the foul so that the ball should have been Arkansas's ball, just not without the free throws.

I thought the Arkansas player grabbed Harrison on the upper arm from behind on that foul.

They sure did show a lot of Calipari on the sidelines during the games. He didn't look like a happy camper most of the time.

I was actually amazed that they were able to keep people off the court with the 0.2 left on the clock.

Dukehky
01-15-2014, 09:22 PM
This game had one of the best finishes I have seen in a while. A buzzer beater 3 to send the game into overtime, and then a buzzer beater put pack dunk to give Ark the victory. What a fun game to watch. If you didn't watch the game, I would recommend catching the highlights at ESPN.com.

Though this UK recruiting class was lauded as the greatest class of all time, and they may still come together, they don't seem to compare to the Anthony Davis class.

I agree with your second part wholeheartedly. Most of that is because of Anthony Davis. I didn't realize it at the time, but he is a transcendent basketball player. In his second year in the NBA he is arguably a top 15 player in the NBA, and definitely a top 25 guy. I don't think there is a player in this year's class that is at that level or will be at that level in his second year in the league. He would have walked away with the ROY award had he not been hurt last year. That kid is really fun to watch, despite his Wildcat affiliation. The 2012 UK team was probably the best team since 07 Florida, and really, maybe since our 2001 Duke team. They had sophomores like Jones who was just a beast, Lamb and Miller could be the cogs and hit open shots. Teague did what he needed to do, pretty much just did his best not to screw up, MKG was a defensive stopper and his freakish athletic ability was more dominating in college, and AD was just by far the best player in the country. That team made me think Cal may actually be a good coach, because I underrated Davis, but Anthony Davis was the reason they won the natty that year. He really was/is incredible.

Dukehky
01-15-2014, 09:23 PM
I believe that it doesn't matter where the ref is standing - the ref, himself, is considered out of bounds. Actually, I thought the player's foot landed out of bounds before the ball left his hand so that would have made it out of bounds whether it touched the ref or not.





I'm pretty sure it was a KY player that slid out of bounds with the ball on that play before the foul so that the ball should have been Arkansas's ball, just not without the free throws.

I thought the Arkansas player grabbed Harrison on the upper arm from behind on that foul.

They sure did show a lot of Calipari on the sidelines during the games. He didn't look like a happy camper most of the time.

I was actually amazed that they were able to keep people off the court with the 0.2 left on the clock.

I think the schools get fined by the SEC if they storm the court/field. Would love to see that in the ACC. I hate court storming. It's all just kids wanting to be on tv or stand on the court. Go do that outside the stadium you heathens.

Here is a Turtle
01-15-2014, 09:31 PM
I think the schools get fined by the SEC if they storm the court/field. Would love to see that in the ACC. I hate court storming. It's all just kids wanting to be on tv or stand on the court. Go do that outside the stadium you heathens.

I don't have a problem with it. They're in college. Let them have their last bit of fun before real life and student loans bring them back to reality.

uh_no
01-15-2014, 09:38 PM
I believe that it doesn't matter where the ref is standing - the ref, himself, is considered out of bounds. Actually, I thought the player's foot landed out of bounds before the ball left his hand so that would have made it out of bounds whether it touched the ref or not.



Im not sure this is correct. I will look at the rulebook when I get home

TexHawk
01-15-2014, 09:43 PM
This game had one of the best finishes I have seen in a while. A buzzer beater 3 to send the game into overtime, and then a buzzer beater put pack dunk to give Ark the victory. What a fun game to watch. If you didn't watch the game, I would recommend catching the highlights at ESPN.com.

While I certainly know what you mean, it had a great finish at the end of regulation and overtime, but the other 44 minutes and 50 seconds of that game was absolutely atrocious. I had to build a shelf in my living room last night, so I kept it on to keep my mind on something. I would have lasted maaaybe 5 minutes if I had nothing else to do. There were 60+ fouls, the inconsistency was insane, and overall it was just some really really sloppy basketball. (For his sake, I certainly hope Julius Randle has more to his game than standing in front of the basket, throwing the occasional elbow that the officials don't see. He's a better ball handler than I expected, but he doesn't seem to finish a lot of those plays.)

TexHawk
01-15-2014, 09:49 PM
I agree with your second part wholeheartedly. Most of that is because of Anthony Davis. I didn't realize it at the time, but he is a transcendent basketball player. In his second year in the NBA he is arguably a top 15 player in the NBA, and definitely a top 25 guy. I don't think there is a player in this year's class that is at that level or will be at that level in his second year in the league. He would have walked away with the ROY award had he not been hurt last year. That kid is really fun to watch, despite his Wildcat affiliation. The 2012 UK team was probably the best team since 07 Florida, and really, maybe since our 2001 Duke team. They had sophomores like Jones who was just a beast, Lamb and Miller could be the cogs and hit open shots. Teague did what he needed to do, pretty much just did his best not to screw up, MKG was a defensive stopper and his freakish athletic ability was more dominating in college, and AD was just by far the best player in the country. That team made me think Cal may actually be a good coach, because I underrated Davis, but Anthony Davis was the reason they won the natty that year. He really was/is incredible.

I was just about to post the same. We probably need a few more years to really gauge the Calipari OAD strategy at UK, but today everyone's perceptions are totally affected by how good Anthony Davis was. There are a lot of good players who enter CBB every year, but it just shows how inconsistent recruiting rankings can be. A #1 recruit one year could be head-and-shoulders above the #1 recruit from the year before. While I couldn't stand the "gamechanger" narrative at the time, a team with Davis and MKG in the frontcourt was just insane defensively (I can't believe Kenpom only had them at 8 in AdjD). You certainly don't see a lot of impact young defensive players anymore, maybe that's why he stuck out so much.

Duvall
01-15-2014, 09:50 PM
I don't have a problem with it. They're in college. Let them have their last bit of fun before real life and student loans bring them back to reality.

You know where those students can have fun? In the stands, where fans belong.

SupaDave
01-16-2014, 12:13 AM
You know where those students can have fun? In the stands, where fans belong.

You gotta remember - some (most) fans never get to celebrate ANYTHING (can you imagine being a State fan the last decade? Duke wins are all they got). Let 'em have some fun if they can behave - which for the most part, they do.

DukieInKansas
01-16-2014, 12:19 AM
You know where those students can have fun? In the stands, where fans belong.

Shall I tell them to stay off your lawn for you?

AncientPsychicT
01-16-2014, 04:36 AM
You know where those students can have fun? In the stands, where fans belong.

I disagree.

The two stormings of Wallace Wade in the past two seasons have been my second and third favorite experiences as a fan in my time here at Duke (lax title #1).

Plus, we are a name brand in basketball. Opposing fans' willingness to celebrate with the players who beat us is a tremendous sign of respect for the sustained quality and prestige of our program. Let them have their fun. Although I do acknowledge the need for road players to be able to get to safety as quickly as possible.

killerleft
01-16-2014, 01:09 PM
I disagree.

The two stormings of Wallace Wade in the past two seasons have been my second and third favorite experiences as a fan in my time here at Duke (lax title #1).

Plus, we are a name brand in basketball. Opposing fans' willingness to celebrate with the players who beat us is a tremendous sign of respect for the sustained quality and prestige of our program. Let them have their fun. Although I do acknowledge the need for road players to be able to get to safety as quickly as possible.

Roy Williams famously agreed one time. Well, the better players and the coaches got to leave before the game was over. The scrubs had to stick around. I can't remember the team and other circumstances, though.

Channing
01-16-2014, 01:18 PM
I hate storming the court or the field. I think its dangerous, and it opens itself up to serious harm every time it happens. Remember the kid in the wheelchair at NCSU last year? That could have easily ended in disaster. At the UK/ARK game, some fan started getting into it with one of the Harrison twins (http://johnclay.bloginky.com/2014/01/15/aaron-harrison-exchanges-words-with-arkansas-fan/). Why even risk putting the players in this situation?

flyingdutchdevil
01-16-2014, 01:25 PM
I hate storming the court or the field. I think its dangerous, and it opens itself up to serious harm every time it happens. Remember the kid in the wheelchair at NCSU last year? That could have easily ended in disaster. At the UK/ARK game, some fan started getting into it with one of the Harrison twins (http://johnclay.bloginky.com/2014/01/15/aaron-harrison-exchanges-words-with-arkansas-fan/). Why even risk putting the players in this situation?

Are players more important than the students? Players are easily the most protected once students storm the court as coaches / security / admin makes sure of that. Furthermore, the opposing team generally leaves the court ASAP once students start to rush the court.

I enjoy it when students storm the court. It helps to celebrate a win that most likely wasn't going to happen / against a formidable opponent (Duke!).

Channing
01-16-2014, 01:30 PM
Are players more important than the students? Players are easily the most protected once students storm the court as coaches / security / admin makes sure of that. Furthermore, the opposing team generally leaves the court ASAP once students start to rush the court.

I enjoy it when students storm the court. It helps to celebrate a win that most likely wasn't going to happen / against a formidable opponent (Duke!).

and when the students storm with .02 on the clock? The players are still on the court then. When there are thousands of fans bull rushing the court, there is only so much security can do. Celebrate in the stands and then at the bars after the game.

flyingdutchdevil
01-16-2014, 01:32 PM
and when the students storm with .02 on the clock? The players are still on the court then. When there are thousands of fans bull rushing the court, there is only so much security can do. Celebrate in the stands and then at the bars after the game.

We'll just have to agree to disagree, then. I like it, you don't. Neither of us will change our opinion.

uh_no
01-16-2014, 01:36 PM
I believe that it doesn't matter where the ref is standing - the ref, himself, is considered out of bounds. Actually, I thought the player's foot landed out of bounds before the ball left his hand so that would have made it out of bounds whether it touched the ref or not.



I was correct, all that matters is where the ref is standing. the ref is not a priori out of bounds.



Section 1. Out of Bounds—Player, Ball
Art. 1. A player shall be out of bounds when he touches the floor or any object
other than a person on or outside a boundary line. An airborne player’s status shall
be where he was last in contact with the floor.
Art. 2. The ball shall be out of bounds when it touches a player who is out of
bounds, any other person, the floor or any object on or outside a boundary, the
supports or back of the backboard, or the ceiling or overhead equipment.
Art. 3. The ball shall be out of bounds when any part of the ball passes over the
backboard from any direction.
Section 2. Ball Caused To G


I've highlighted the important part....note that the referees are not special in any regard, and all that matters is that the other person (ref) is on or outside a boundary (which the ref was in that case)

Duvall
01-16-2014, 01:38 PM
Are players more important than the students? Players are easily the most protected once students storm the court as coaches / security / admin makes sure of that. Furthermore, the opposing team generally leaves the court ASAP once students start to rush the court.

Player safety is more important than student entertainment, of course. And fans are even more likely to trample each other regardless of how well the players are protected. It's far too much risk for a moment's silliness.

flyingdutchdevil
01-16-2014, 01:42 PM
Player safety is more important than student entertainment, of course. And fans are even more likely to trample each other regardless of how well the players are protected. It's far too much risk for a moment's silliness.

I wholeheartedly disagree. In the last decade, how many D1 players have been injured due to rushing the court? +/- 2.5? I'd take the under on that.

I think this is way too much safety paranoia that is going on here. Guarantee that bench players are more prone to injury by a player diving for a lose ball. Should we move the bench back 8 feet to prevent those injuries?

There is risk in everything. IMO, mitigating the smallest risks is often not worth it.

Duvall
01-16-2014, 01:57 PM
There is risk in everything. IMO, mitigating the smallest risks is often not worth it.

Worth what? Feeding the egos of kids that want to be on TV and feel special is not a benefit worth taking on much risk, if any.

flyingdutchdevil
01-16-2014, 02:15 PM
Worth what? Feeding the egos of kids that want to be on TV and feel special is not a benefit worth taking on much risk, if any.

Egos? They want to celebrate their school's success. You think Duke kids rushing the football field a years back (I want to say against GT) was for egos and wanting to be on TV? It was pride in a program that never had much success at a particular sport.

Also, how is that different from lighting benches in the middle of your campus? That also gets national publicity and is significantly more dangerous and risky. That said, I say celebrate.

Indoor66
01-16-2014, 03:07 PM
Egos? They want to celebrate their school's success. You think Duke kids rushing the football field a years back (I want to say against GT) was for egos and wanting to be on TV? It was pride in a program that never had much success at a particular sport.

Also, how is that different from lighting benches in the middle of your campus? That also gets national publicity and is significantly more dangerous and risky. That said, I say celebrate.

I'm with you dutchman. Let 'em celebrate. There is more danger crossing the street going home - or worse, driving after celebrating at a tavern.