Duke football

[6th Man]

I went to the game yesterday full of hope for a great start to the season. We take the opening kickoff and proceed to sling the ball down the field for a quick TD. Very creative pass plays all the way down the field. There is a decent crowd in Wallace Wade and the fans are actually into it. In front of me sits one of Duke's greats.....Clarkston Hines. I'm thinking to myself, wow everything seems like it is going to workout today. Even by halftime we still have the lead! 14-11. I think partly because the fans in attendance were giving Duke a lift. Well something different happened in the second half. Some fans actually left at halftime. Duke comes out and gets scored on and more fans leave. It was like the place became dead. Well then the players were not the same bunch as the first half. They were becoming dejected and you could see it in their face. If you were at the game, the final score was not quite a true indicator. Duke goes for it on 4th down several times in their own territory setting up perfect field position for UCONN. Duke then has to pass the ball to try and score quickly and ends up throwing picks as UCONN knows what is going on and sets up their D to defend the pass. I think Duke sort of quit as well and I think it has to do with the fans quitting on them. I don't know how we as fans expect to leave, quit, and not attend games, not cheer and somehow magically wait for Duke football to get better. When the fans were there and cheering we were up 14-11 at halftime. The fans go south and we go south. Was very easy to see.

As far as fans writing about going to another division in football or leaving the ACC, that's just crazy. We would see the real death of Duke sports then. What happens to all the other not so high profile sports? They need the ACC. And Duke basketball, as great as it is, needs the ACC. We would be extremely arrogant to think we can go our own way and still remian at the high level we have maintained at basketball. We didn't exactly tear up the ACC last year. Ask Coach K if the ACC schedule doesn't make Duke a better team.

In my own opinion Duke football needs some love from the fans. This won't be the magic cure, but it sure will help! Besides, a true fan should never give up on his or her team!

[BigDuke6]

I did not leave at half time, but I did leave at the start of the fourth quarter. Do you know why? Because I see the same team on the field that I have seen for the past 15 years. They make the same mistakes, miscues, crazy play calling, and poor tackling. At half time we were in the lead but it was only a matter of time before we gave it up. We were making those mistakes in the first half but Uconn did not take advantage. When is it enough? I don't know where you sit in order to see the player's faces but I don't sit as close. I'm not at the game to look at their faces. I look at their performance and that says enough. I am a season ticket holder and I will attend the games. If they continue to play as bad as they yesterday. I will continue to leave when I feel like they have given up on the game as well. (Coaches and players.)

[Bluedawg]

I think it's inherently unfair to say that its the fan's fault the team lost. I know its easy to point blame, but to put the loss of a game on the fans is too much.

That said, I agree that a team feeds off of the energy of the fans and yes, they should stay until the end. If a team is expected to play till the last click then the fans should be expected to cheer till the last click. But also please keep in mind that the fans feed off the energy of the team. it is a two way street.

[6th Man]

I understand your points in response to my post. I am now 33 years old and have seen Duke beat UNC once sine I was 15. I know the blame can't be put on the fans entirely, but I really think it would make a difference if they got more support. Granted I do know it is a two-way street. I was frustrated with play calling too. We had a great first drive with great play calls and then all of a sudden the creativity was gone. It's very frustrating to say the least and really upsetting to see posts about leaving the ACC or playing Division II ball in football which would automatically kick us out of ACC. I just think that would bring everything down. Here's hoping to a great turnaround on the road next week! I wish somehow something great would happen to the football program! I really think the University needs it badly.

[dukie8]

I understand your points in response to my post. I am now 33 years old and have seen Duke beat UNC once sine I was 15. I know the blame can't be put on the fans entirely, but I really think it would make a difference if they got more support. Granted I do know it is a two-way street. I was frustrated with play calling too. We had a great first drive with great play calls and then all of a sudden the creativity was gone. It's very frustrating to say the least and really upsetting to see posts about leaving the ACC or playing Division II ball in football which would automatically kick us out of ACC. I just think that would bring everything down. Here's hoping to a great turnaround on the road next week! I wish somehow something great would happen to the football program! I really think the University needs it badly.

if you honestly think that fan support is the cause, or at least a major cause, of the team's woes, then how do you explain the fact that road teams actually win games from time-to-time?

[Duke1988]

I was at the game too yesterday. Three hour drive from the Norfolk, VA area. Had a good time except for the second half. I've watched a number of Duke football games over the past three seasons and there are questions that still remain in my mind after this game.

1. 2nd quarter, 4th and 1, we are a little past midfield...we line up to go for it, but instead, Aszak does a "pooch punt"...why? News flash: we were 0-12 last year...we are going to lose most of our games this year...we have a chance agains uconn...why not pull out the stops and go for it...sling it for crying out loud!!!! this play is indicative of many play calls that i've seen roof make that are simply too conservative, showing no willingness to take a risk.

2. what did roof tell the team at halftime? whatever it was, he should never, ever tell them that again. seems to me that uconn comes out and scores, and we totally lose heart...and that's just it...is there any heart? did we even put up a fight in the second half or not? or is it that our conditioning is not good enough to keep pace with teams for 60 minutes? i don't know, but i look at the coaching staff in either instance.

well i have other questions, but this post is already too long...

thoughts?

[jlear]

Positives:

The hope for an improved on the field performance was uplifting
The weather was outstanding
The tailgating was terrific
The funnel cake was great
Fan turnout was better than I expected
The feeling after the first series of the game was that what we had heard about improvement was true
#7’s solo tackles were incredible
First half defensive effort
The crowd was loud enough in the first half yesterday that we could not hear what the band was playing
The new caches polo’s look cool (I need to buy one)
Traffic after the game was very manageable


Negatives:

No measure of football performance that was acceptable for a college team


We need to outsource the management of football to someone who has a clue how to be successful because we don’t have a single clue.

One last thing, in my opinion, closing the other football thread because you don’t want to hear us vent about our disappointment was more juvenile than our complaining. We give our time, money and energy to Duke Football and all we want is some answers.

[TillyGalore]

2. what did roof tell the team at halftime? whatever it was, he should never, ever tell them that again. seems to me that uconn comes out and scores, and we totally lose heart...and that's just it...is there any heart? did we even put up a fight in the second half or not? or is it that our conditioning is not good enough to keep pace with teams for 60 minutes? i don't know, but i look at the coaching staff in either instance.

I completely agree with you. In the first half the team was riled up and motivated. As soon as the second half started their heart was gone. I too wondered what the heck Roof said.

Attending this game was a last minute decision (thanks for the invite Ozzie :)) and like a lot of other people really believed we were going to walk away with a "W". I was very disappointed with the second half and with a four game road trip am wondering how this team will bounce back to win.

[JBDuke]

...
One last thing, in my opinion, closing the other football thread because you don’t want to hear us vent about our disappointment was more juvenile than our complaining. We give our time, money and energy to Duke Football and all we want is some answers.

Your opinion is noted.

With all of 5 posts under your belt, I would suggest that you refrain from commenting on moderation at this point, but if you are going to comment on it, please read the entire message posted by the mods to attempt to fully understand why they took the action they did.

I did not shut down the other thread to prevent venting. I shut it down because a few persistent posters were saying the same things about Duke football that they have said for YEARS. I encouraged folks that have something new to say - critical or not - to create new threads, but I will not tolerate (unless directed otherwise by the admins) the repeated bashing of Duke, Duke Athletics, and Duke coaches by people that appear to have an axe to grind or that have nothing new to offer.

[jlear]

Your opinion is noted.

With all of 5 posts under your belt, I would suggest that you refrain from commenting on moderation at this point, but if you are going to comment on it, please read the entire message posted by the mods to attempt to fully understand why they took the action they did.

I did not shut down the other thread to prevent venting. I shut it down because a few persistent posters were saying the same things about Duke football that they have said for YEARS. I encouraged folks that have something new to say - critical or not - to create new threads, but I will not tolerate (unless directed otherwise by the admins) the repeated bashing of Duke, Duke Athletics, and Duke coaches by people that appear to have an axe to grind or that have nothing new to offer.

I agree since I read the board almost everyday, but refrain from posting I should keep any moderation opinions to myself and of course if I "fully understand" then of course I would have to agree with you. You can moderate the boards however you see fit. I will keep my opinions off this board.

[Bluedawg]

2nd quarter, 4th and 1, we are a little past midfield...we line up to go for it, but instead, Aszak does a "pooch punt"...why?

I agree, that may have been a turning point, showing no trust in his team. i have had questions about some of his decisions, namely the last play in last years UNC game when he attempted the 1 pt kick when he had not made any all game, but had made 2 point conversions. i know the rule is you play to win on the road and play to tie at home, but when you are 0-11 you always play to win!

I'd like to see him loosen up a bit and got for broke, like on the first drive yesterday.

[mapei]

I think people need a place to express their disappointment and embarrassment with Duke football. What's wrong with doing so on DBR, where many of us enjoy conversation? The critical posts on Duke football are no more repetitive (or, if you prefer, "unoriginal") than many of the positive comments on basketball threads.

In general, I think the mods here do a swell job. This is the best sports board I've read by a long shot. But I hope we don't feel a need to over-police what I think is a pretty understandable reaction to Saturday's game.

Cheers.

[cspan37421]

Jlear, read the sticky on infraction/banning policy and procedure, and pay particular attention to the definition of "destructively negative", and meditate on that in light of comments from the removed thread that assert if an immediate change isn't made, then the admin is intentionally putting out a bad product and wants football to fail.

If that's not desructively negative I don't know what is. Feel free to create and manage your own board unencumbered by such rules.

[Kewlswim]

Your opinion is noted.

With all of 5 posts under your belt, I would suggest that you refrain from commenting on moderation at this point, but if you are going to comment on it, please read the entire message posted by the mods to attempt to fully understand why they took the action they did.

I did not shut down the other thread to prevent venting. I shut it down because a few persistent posters were saying the same things about Duke football that they have said for YEARS. I encouraged folks that have something new to say - critical or not - to create new threads, but I will not tolerate (unless directed otherwise by the admins) the repeated bashing of Duke, Duke Athletics, and Duke coaches by people that appear to have an axe to grind or that have nothing new to offer.

Maybe Coach Roof will resign? I haven't said that yet. I am so bummed, distraught, angered, flustered, and frustrated by our football performance over the last few years (decades?) that I am not sure I can bear to watch a game anymore. :-( I LOVE DUKE FOOTBALL. I wish the powers at Duke did as much as I do.

GO DUKE!

[TheDuke11]

let me tell you how much Duke University cares about its football program.
We have lost 22 (or is it 23?) consecutive games, some to DII programs and many to horrible DI programs, yet we still have the same head coach.

I love Roof to death, I swear I do, but my God how obvious is it that he isnt going to be able to get the job done?

[6th Man]

I have been shot down a little on my suggestion of fan support being part of the contributing cause to losing. (I do realize there are many other factors). I know the question was posed on how I explain teams winning on the road.....my explanation would be that you go on the road not expecting fans to be there cheering for you. To play to shut the other fans up. These Duke guys will come out for the Va. Tech home game in Wallace Wade this year and think they are in Blacksburg. How does that motivate these (18-22) year old kids? If I were a Duke football player, I'd rather play on the road. It has to be humiliating to run out onto the field at Wallace Wade. Especially when playing a Va. Tech that will fill up the stands with their fans.

I'm not arguing this is the main reason we lose, but it sure doesn't help the team win any games. I hope the loyal fans that keep attending and cheering will be rewarded someday. It happened to the loyal fans of basketball. I know several folks that bought season tix to Duke basketball back when they struggled in the early 80's. They kept renewing every year and now they have the "golden tickets" to Cameron each season.

[Patrick Yates]

I have been shot down a little on my suggestion of fan support being part of the contributing cause to losing. (I do realize there are many other factors). I know the question was posed on how I explain teams winning on the road.....my explanation would be that you go on the road not expecting fans to be there cheering for you. To play to shut the other fans up. These Duke guys will come out for the Va. Tech home game in Wallace Wade this year and think they are in Blacksburg. How does that motivate these (18-22) year old kids? If I were a Duke football player, I'd rather play on the road. It has to be humiliating to run out onto the field at Wallace Wade. Especially when playing a Va. Tech that will fill up the stands with their fans.

I'm not arguing this is the main reason we lose, but it sure doesn't help the team win any games. I hope the loyal fans that keep attending and cheering will be rewarded someday. It happened to the loyal fans of basketball. I know several folks that bought season tix to Duke basketball back when they struggled in the early 80's. They kept renewing every year and now they have the "golden tickets" to Cameron each season.


I would argue that it is embarassing and disheartening as fans to shoulder the expense of trekking to a home game only to see the home team barely put forth an effort. When I was at school from 97-01, at home games I would routinely see players on the sidelines not watching the game, or smiling and joking arround with each other even as the team got Destroyed on the field. Not beaten badly, but truly humiliated, on our home field. IMHO, sometimes it seems as if the kids are somewhat indifferent. They, and some on this board, seem to be of the opinion that as long as they try their best we as fans are duty bound to support them unconditionally. If the team won a few games, the fans would come. The fans don't come for losing. Attendance follows success, not vice versa. Nor should it.

If Duke were mired in a brief period of losing, I would agree with you re: fans keeping the faith. But this is not a brief period of losing. Duke now has incoming freshman who were not born the last time Duke was releveant (with the lone exclusion of the 94 season, which was a fluke). That is not a period of futility, that is generational.

Also, can we please stop comparing the FB losing to the extremely brief periods when the B-Ball team was down, both in the 70s and 80s. During those periods, Duke was down briefly. Even though K struggled early, the true nadar came when he was playing virtually all freshman, many of whom were highly regarded. Keep in mind that was a time when only the very best Jrs left school early, so that team was playing against fellow ACC teams dominated by upperclassmen. K had 2-3 mediocre to bad years, not decade upon decade of being truly horrendous.

Patrick Yates

regarding Va Tech and FSU, both of whom regularly fill WW when they come to town, there is a reason for that. Those teams are so good (traditionally, bit of a down period right now), that most fans cannot get into the 80,000 seat home areanas, much like many Duke fans cannot get into Cameron. They are willing to really travel to a road venue in a town that is not exactly known for its rocking night life because it is the only chance they have to see their teams play in person, for a reasonable ticket price. Again, that level of support is earned, not given. Were it not for these visiting fans, Duke Football would be so far in the red people would mistake it for ENRON.

[Bluedawg]

reading the paper today I ran across a line written by Chip Alexander (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/ncsu/story/691561.html) in discussing NC State and the work Tom O'Brien has to do. He said


How long will it take for State to get away from its old, bad habits and learn how to win?

It struck me that this is one thing that all of the posts concerning Duke football has missed. We can change Chip's words to read
How long will it take for Duke to get away from its old, bad habits and learn how to win?

i wrote this then i read Patrick Yates' post. I loved this line that he wrote

Duke now has incoming freshman who were not born the last time Duke was releveant (with the lone exclusion of the 94 season, which was a fluke). That is not a period of futility, that is generational.

It illustrates my point. Theirs "is not a period of futility, it is generational" so therefore how can they drop their "old, bad habits and learn how to win?"

[FewFAC]

Duke fans are unfair to Duke football. To expect the impossible in a situation where the things necessary for victory are unavailable and not provided defies logic. Duke fans should simply accept Duke football for what it is, and rally around an organization determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Duke should focus on rebranding its football program into a Wallace Wade "experience" centered on its crumbling history and infrastructure, and turn game time into an experience that focuses on off-the-field adventures, a la Wrigley Field.

[TheDuke11]

we (Duke Football Fans) do not expect Duke to compete for a NC. I dont think our expectations of a team that comes out and every now and then has a chance to win is unreasonable. EVERY OTHER TEAM IN DIVISION I has that expectation. Why shouldnt we?
losing to richmond and uCOn should not be acceptable. being owned by wfu also should not be accecptable.

[cspan37421]

Wow. Has anyone else yet watched the postgame press conference of Coach Roof? I wish I could say something positive about his appearance, demeanor, etc. It might look like he has no answers and is just stunned, but he did keep coming back to the fact that the players weren't executing. Clearly the punting is one issue and bad punting is a bit like bad free throw shooting. If the punter can get a clean kick away, defense should have no effect on the distance. So there seem to be quite a few self-inflicted wounds.

Game film s/b able to break down what was self-inflicted and what was simply being outplayed. I wonder if it is just correctable mistakes or something more.

Couple comments did concern me. The first player interviewed said they didn't expect UConn to be so prepared. Really? Wow.

I think the coach said something to the effect that he thought they'd be able to continue to do the things they did in the first half. (implying he was counting on UConn not making adjustments?).

I don't know what is fixable but his body language was not encouraging.

[DevilAlumna]

I know the question was posed on how I explain teams winning on the road.....my explanation would be that you go on the road not expecting fans to be there cheering for you. To play to shut the other fans up. These Duke guys will come out for the Va. Tech home game in Wallace Wade this year and think they are in Blacksburg. How does that motivate these (18-22) year old kids? If I were a Duke football player, I'd rather play on the road. It has to be humiliating to run out onto the field at Wallace Wade. Especially when playing a Va. Tech that will fill up the stands with their fans.


If there is a Duke player on the current FB team who actually believes that there is outstanding/unwavering student/alumni support, he's more optimistic than Ozzie!

I think these kids are smart enough to know the recent history of the team, and that they have to win over the home crowd as well as on the road. Or at least ignore the crowd and focus on the task at hand.

[captmojo]

Or at least ignore the crowd and focus on the task at hand.

This seems to be the order of the day.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

If there is a Duke player on the current FB team who actually believes that there is outstanding/unwavering student/alumni support, he's more optimistic than Ozzie!


Well, I AM an outstanding/unwavering alumni supporter, and so are most of the other season ticket holders. I am not alone. That said, it doesn't mean that I don't want to see significant improvement in our performance this year.

[dukie8]

we (Duke Football Fans) do not expect Duke to compete for a NC. I dont think our expectations of a team that comes out and every now and then has a chance to win is unreasonable. EVERY OTHER TEAM IN DIVISION I has that expectation. Why shouldnt we?
losing to richmond and uCOn should not be acceptable. being owned by wfu also should not be accecptable.

that's exactly right. the expectations for duke football have to be the lowest in d1a football. if duke won 2 ooc games (that should be easy since we can pick equally futile teams) and 2 acc games each year, every 5 years made a run at .500 and every 10 years made a bowl, football would be a non issue. people wouldn't even talk about it. it's when you go year after year without winning a single game and get blown out by bad teams, that people get up in arms.

[throatybeard]

Thanks goodness for FIU...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3003847

[Bluedawg]

Thanks goodness for FIU...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3003847

Wonder why NC State didn't make the list. Wasn't UCF a 1AA school?

[throatybeard]

No, UCF is not IAA. They're in Conference USA with Southern Mississippi, East Carolina, Memphis, Houston &c.

[Bluedawg]

No, UCF is not IAA. They're in Conference USA with Southern Mississippi, East Carolina, Memphis, Houston &c.

thanks...somewhere i read where they were.

[TheDuke11]

i've been reading a lot of comments like "its just one game" and "lets not freak out about just one game" and other similar comments.
its NOT just one game. Its been 22 or 23 or whatever many games, not just one.

I just wish more people that could make a difference actually cared about Duke football. Not everyone likes football and that is beyond fine, but the administration should at least care enough about these kids to make sure they have every opportunity in the world to compete on a day to day basis.

I'm 31 years old. guess how many times I've seen Duke go to a bowl game, or even just beat unc.

[Bluedawg]

i've been reading a lot of comments like "its just one game" and "lets not freak out about just one game" and other similar comments.
its NOT just one game. Its been 22 or 23 or whatever many games, not just one.

I just wish more people that could make a difference actually cared about Duke football. Not everyone likes football and that is beyond fine, but the administration should at least care enough about these kids to make sure they have every opportunity in the world to compete on a day to day basis.

I'm 31 years old. guess how many times I've seen Duke go to a bowl game, or even just beat unc.

A couple of us have. In a previous post I pointed out this same thing and asked the question "How long will it take for Duke to get away from its old, bad habits and learn how to win?"

Patrick Yates had a great post with a fabulous line. He wrote


Duke now has incoming freshman who were not born the last time Duke was releveant (with the lone exclusion of the 94 season, which was a fluke). That is not a period of futility, that is generational.

I think both of these recognize that losing is a way of life at Duke football and that will be the hard part. Coach Roof said last year that the hardest job he has on game day is to keep the players from watching the clock. When they get ahead they get so nervous that they tense up and don't play well. that is knowing how to lose but not knowing how to win.

they need to be taught how to win.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I think both of these recognize that losing is a way of life at Duke football and that will be the hard part. Coach Roof said last year that the hardest job he has on game day is to keep the players from watching the clock. When they get ahead they get so nervous that they tense up and don't play well. that is knowing how to lose but not knowing how to win.

they need to be taught how to win.

These kids all know how to win when they get to Duke. They (virtually) all were on winning teams in high school. Of course, winning at Duke has proven a bit more problematic...

[6th Man]

Just a question to throw out there.......do you think when Spurrier was a Devil we had superior talent to our squads of the past several years? I know Hines was a stud! I guess I am just wondering if Spurrier was such an offensive genius that he was able to do what he did with the same talent we have now, or if we just had better players. I have been preaching fan support in this thread, and the way Spurrier had the offense rolling it was exciting. I know Franks tried to have an "Airball" season and it was a disaster. The first drive against UCONN was great......I guess we didn't have much planned after the first drive.

[TheTrain]

Better players across the board and it was not even close

The OL was outstanding with Port, McNairy, Tulacro, Metts and Nitkowski
Great TEs with Jason Cooper and Dave Colonna
Fantastic QBs....Slayden, Dilweg and Brown....all of whom played in the NFL
Solid RBs with Cuthbert, Boone, Randy Jones, Stanley Monk, Wayne Charles
Solid secondary with Erwin Sampson, Derrick Jackson, Wyatt Smith and QUinton McCracken
LBs were a little suspect because Rodney Dickerson was small and Hollywood Howell was often hurt but George Edwards was a constant
DL was deep with McDonald, Youmans, Anderson and others

The only place where today's team would be better talent-wise would be on the DL

[Bluedawg]

Better players across the board and it was not even close

So duke was able to recruit at some point. What changed?

[Bluedawg]

Wow. Has anyone else yet watched the postgame press conference of Coach Roof? I wish I could say something positive about his appearance, demeanor, etc. It might look like he has no answers and is just stunned, but he did keep coming back to the fact that the players weren't executing. Clearly the punting is one issue and bad punting is a bit like bad free throw shooting. If the punter can get a clean kick away, defense should have no effect on the distance. So there seem to be quite a few self-inflicted wounds.

Game film s/b able to break down what was self-inflicted and what was simply being outplayed. I wonder if it is just correctable mistakes or something more.

Couple comments did concern me. The first player interviewed said they didn't expect UConn to be so prepared. Really? Wow.

I think the coach said something to the effect that he thought they'd be able to continue to do the things they did in the first half. (implying he was counting on UConn not making adjustments?).

I don't know what is fixable but his body language was not encouraging.

is there a link to the video that we can view. I've searched for it and can't seem to locate one.

[mapei]

So duke was able to recruit at some point. What changed?

According to some who posted this week. "Roof is good recruiter." So maybe nothing has.

<tongue planted firmly in cheek>

[throatybeard]

Roof's "good recruiting" doesn't show up in Phil Steele's rankings. (Insert caveat about recruiting rankings being flawed). We're usually 10th-12th in the league and 60th-70th nationally, or so. I don't see us any higher in any of the others. There was some talk about a 31st ranked class in some service, but that was before all the late signees and we dropped later.

I think part of what happened w/r/t recruiting is we went from the 80s era ACC, with arguably 3-ish FB schools at the time (mainly Clemson, MD sort of, GT sort of based on history) to the 00s-era ACC, with those plus FSU, VT, Miami. And BC is a school like Minnesota or GT--you can't quite classify them as FB or BB. WFU has improved mightily, State at least thinks they're a semi-FB school, and feces are raining down on us from all directions.

[TheTrain]

With all due respect Throaty, the recruiting has been relatively good despite our pathetic on-field performance. The two preeminent rating services (Rivals and Scout) have rated the last four recruiting classes as follows out of 117 1-A programs

2004: Rivals #70 / Scout #65
2005: Rivals #46 / Scout #31
2006: Rivals #56 / Scout #36
2007: Rivals #78 / Scout #64

[ChrisP]

let me tell you how much Duke University cares about its football program.
We have lost 22 (or is it 23?) consecutive games, some to DII programs and many to horrible DI programs, yet we still have the same head coach.

I love Roof to death, I swear I do, but my God how obvious is it that he isnt going to be able to get the job done?

Ya know, if you're gonna complain about something, you really ought to have your facts straight...I went back and looked at stats from 2004-present available on GoDuke.com. We have now lost 21 straight games (lost 8 in a row to close out '05, all 12 last year :( , and now the UConvicts to start '07). During that time frame, we have lost ZERO games to "DII" programs. We have not even played a DII program. I suspect that what you're referring to is D1-AA programs The Citadel (W back in '04), Richmond (L to open '06 season), and VMI (our last win, back in '05). So...thanks to my Duke edumacation, I can calculate that's a WINNING record against the so-called "lower-tier) D1-AA schools.

As for losing to "horrible" DI programs, exactly which teams would be on that list for you? Since the 2004 season and including last Saturday's debacle, Duke has played 11 non-conference games. If you subtract the D1-AA opponents, that total changes to 8 non-con games (in other words, 8 against D1 teams). Foes included: Navy (3x), UConn (2x), and then once each against, ECU, Alabama, and Vandy. I don't know about you, but last time I looked, all of those schools - with the possible exceptions of UConn and Vandy - had pretty strong football programs. And even in Vandy's case, let's not forget that they lost to eventual NC Florida by only 6 pts last year.

In terms of our conference schedule, we've played very good teams in GaTech, VaTech, Wake, and FSU every year for the past 3 seasons. We've also played a pretty decent program in UVA every year. We've played Miami and Clemson twice each and last year, we had the good fortune to see BC as an away game. So...it ain't like we're playing a bunch of chumps as your post insinuates.

Now, I didn't look all this up to try and prove that Duke football is actually doing well (I do think there have been some signs of progress, though) and I didn't bring it up to try to say, "See Ted Roof's our man - he's got us moving in the right direction!" Like you, I really like Ted and I wish like H**L he could get it done as our head coach. Up until last Saturday, I was firmly in his corner and really, really hoped he had the program turned around this year and that we'd begin to see some real progress in terms of at least 2-3 W's (let's face it, our schedule is a bear and to expect any more wins this season is just silly) but I'm very disheartened now. The reason I brought it all up is simply to counter your claim that Duke University doesn't care about it's football program (I don't believe that) and to refute your contention that we've lost to a bunch of bad teams. I think mistakes have been made in the past and firmly believe we can and should expect to field a more competitive team (there is absolutely no excuse for not having a decent punter and/or place kicker) but I think your claim is ridiculous and that your reasoning and evidence are flawed. If you're going to criticize, please at least make sure you know what you're talking about.

I don't claim to know how to "fix" Duke Football and so I won't begin to speculate, but I do know that we've played a pretty tough schedule the past several seasons and would like to believe that the experience gained playing against those good teams will start to pay dividends - and SOON!

[JBDuke]

With all due respect Throaty, the recruiting has been relatively good despite our pathetic on-field performance. The two preeminent rating services (Rivals and Scout) have rated the last four recruiting classes as follows out of 117 1-A programs

2004: Rivals #70 / Scout #65
2005: Rivals #46 / Scout #31
2006: Rivals #56 / Scout #36
2007: Rivals #78 / Scout #64

A-Train - do you believe those Scout numbers? We sure haven't seen results commensurate with them... I might buy the Rivals numbers - respectable, but probably worst average in the conference over that span.

(Granted, we won't have seen much impact from the 2006/7 classes yet...)

[formerdukeathlete]

Nan.

Post Nan, fixing Duke Football requires some adjustments in the admin.'s approach to faculty recruitment and residential life on campus.

Revel in what was Duke's Dartmouth life work hard, play hard culture.

Hire a creative coach who might actually like tighter academic standards (one who thinks of himself as an educator, a preparer of kids for the game of life).

Wallace Wade, who had played football at Brown, came to Duke because he wanted a little less pressure than at Alabama, and because he actually wanted to coach at a school with tighter academic standards.

A Paul Johnson might take the job if the admin. / Trustees demonstrated sufficient commitment, such as approving renovations to Wade.

[TheTrain]

The truth in those recruiting numbers probably lies in the average. Scout rankings definitely get a lot of lobbying from the Devils Den while Rivals rankings get less push. That said, both tend to overrate a few and underrate a few. For instance, in 2006 I felt Tyler Rice was a 3-star prospect (Rivals) not a 4-star (Scout). Then again, Pontus Bondesson deserved a 3-star prospect (Scout) not a 2-star (Rivals). I watch a ton of tape and talk to a lot of coaches, so I have a pretty good feel for this stuff. Not going to hold myself out as the omniscient guru of football talent evaluation, but I have learned a lot through the years from one of the better talent evaluators out there.