PDA

View Full Version : Marshall Plumlee



dukejunkie
01-08-2014, 02:13 PM
It seems that Marshall is one of this year's biggest unsolved mysteries. Here are some thoughts that seem to have permeated the boards from time to time:

A) He needs to play a fair amount and gain in-game experience if Duke wants any chance competing late in the season versus teams with frontcourt talent.

B) He's not ready and doesn't give the team the best chance to win.

C) Coach K plays the players that practice best.

D) He's not one of his brothers or Brian Zoubek.

E) He is Brian Zoubek.

F) Coach K knows what he is doing and we shouldn't question that. He'll be ready to step up if and when needed.

G) With the right matchups, Duke can make a run without needing him.

H) Why not try to give him meaningful time even if it hurts the team in the short run?

I) Amile, Jabari, and Josh can provide enough interior defense and rebounding.

J) Semi?

I am a big fan of MP3. However, I'm not sure if he can make a big difference or not. He's not where he needs to be in order to be a difference maker (at least from what we see of him during games). However, I'm not ruling out the possibility that he can meaningfully contribute.

jv001
01-08-2014, 02:23 PM
It seems that Marshall is one of this year's biggest unsolved mysteries. Here are some thoughts that seem to have permeated the boards from time to time:

A) He needs to play a fair amount and gain in-game experience if Duke wants any chance competing late in the season versus teams with frontcourt talent.

B) He's not ready and doesn't give the team the best chance to win.

C) Coach K plays the players that practice best.

D) He's not one of his brothers or Brian Zoubek.

E) He is Brian Zoubek.

F) Coach K knows what he is doing and we shouldn't question that. He'll be ready to step up if and when needed.

G) With the right matchups, Duke can make a run without needing him.

H) Why not try to give him meaningful time even if it hurts the team in the short run?

I) Amile, Jabari, and Josh can provide enough interior defense and rebounding.

J) Semi?

I am a big fan of MP3. However, I'm not sure if he can make a big difference or not. He's not where he needs to be in order to be a difference maker (at least from what we see of him during games). However, I'm not ruling out the possibility that he can meaningfully contribute.

You left out K) Marshall should get most of Josh's minutes, lol.

Matches
01-08-2014, 02:26 PM
Also l) Players improve by getting minutes and playing through mistakes, but this only applies to certain players. Other players are what they are and can never improve regardless of how many minutes they play.

jv001
01-08-2014, 02:29 PM
Also l) Players improve by getting minutes and playing through mistakes, but this only applies to certain players. Other players are what they are and can never improve regardless of how many minutes they play.

Amen! Wish I would've thought of that one. GoDuke!

Billy Dat
01-08-2014, 02:32 PM
His two older brothers are currently rotation players in the NBA +
K once said he was one of our top 5 players during the 2012/3 preseason +
A formidable but not necessarily true narrative around our season is that we lack sufficient rebounding/shot blocking/ability to effectively guard 6'10" and above players +
The aforementioned narrative is a frequently posited reason we won't make the Final Four +
He's never really gotten an opportunity to 'show his stuff' in real games +
It seems like when he gets his two first-half minutes every game that he does something "exciting" +
He comes from that Matt Christensen school of wild gesticulation +
He has a great personality and is a Duke Blue Planet star interviewer +
Never has a college basketball player so resembled Hilary Swank

=

Aforementioned discussion tropes A through K

dukejunkie
01-08-2014, 02:48 PM
His two older brothers are currently rotation players in the NBA +
K once said he was one of our top 5 players during the 2012/3 preseason +
A formidable but not necessarily true narrative around our season is that we lack sufficient rebounding/shot blocking/ability to effectively guard 6'10" and above players +
The aforementioned narrative is a frequently posited reason we won't make the Final Four +
He's never really gotten an opportunity to 'show his stuff' in real games +
It seems like when he gets his two first-half minutes every game that he does something "exciting" +
He comes from that Matt Christensen school of wild gesticulation +
He has a great personality and is a Duke Blue Planet star interviewer +
Never has a college basketball player so resembled Hilary Swank

=

Aforementioned discussion tropes A through K


Thanks Billy. I was hoping the thread would evolve this way!

roywhite
01-08-2014, 02:48 PM
Just my opinion, but I don't see Marshall playing more than a few minutes a game:

I'm sure Coach K and the staff want him to succeed -- this team sure as heck could use rebounding and interior defense, but they see him every day and aren't playing him much.
Marshall can't seem to synchronize his movement with the pace of the game when he is in.
Yeah, great pedigree, but Marshall never put up the numbers his brothers did in high school.
I see some big kids like Miller from GaTech and Sherman from ND who are not great athletes but have developed skills and value to the team; so far, this hasn't happened with Marshall.
At Duke, Marshall is 0-17 career on foul shots; yeah, small sample size, etc. but I have a hard time understanding that bad of a result.

From the comments I see here and on devilsden, I'm probably in the minority as to his potential to help this team, but that's how I see it. It would certainly help the team for him to play effectively, even for short stretches.

Troublemaker
01-08-2014, 03:05 PM
M) His arms so short, he has to tilt his head to scratch his ears.

uh_no
01-08-2014, 03:38 PM
Just my opinion, but I don't see Marshall playing more than a few minutes a game:

I'm sure Coach K and the staff want him to succeed -- this team sure as heck could use rebounding and interior defense, but they see him every day and aren't playing him much.
Marshall can't seem to synchronize his movement with the pace of the game when he is in.
Yeah, great pedigree, but Marshall never put up the numbers his brothers did in high school.
I see some big kids like Miller from GaTech and Sherman from ND who are not great athletes but have developed skills and value to the team; so far, this hasn't happened with Marshall.
At Duke, Marshall is 0-17 career on foul shots; yeah, small sample size, etc. but I have a hard time understanding that bad of a result.

From the comments I see here and on devilsden, I'm probably in the minority as to his potential to help this team, but that's how I see it. It would certainly help the team for him to play effectively, even for short stretches.

probabalistically speaking, marshall would have to be a 4% free throw shooter to make it likely to miss 17 straight

for the record: here is the probability of missing 17 straight for a given free throw percentage:

10% - 16% chance of missing 17 straight
20% - 2% chance
30% - .2% chance

and it just goes down from there....needless to say, marshall is not a very good free throw shooter. I hope he is able to improve

flyingdutchdevil
01-08-2014, 03:41 PM
probabalistically speaking, marshall would have to be a 4% free throw shooter to make it likely to miss 17 straight

for the record: here is the probability of missing 17 straight for a given free throw percentage:

10% - 16% chance of missing 17 straight
20% - 2% chance
30% - .2% chance

and it just goes down from there....needless to say, marshall is not a very good free throw shooter. I hope he is able to improve

If I'm not mistaken, his career is 0-15.

CajunDevil
01-08-2014, 03:51 PM
I really like Marshall's progress. Early in the year, he'd damn near hyperventilate by walking on the court, but he's settled down quite nicely. I think the 15-20 mpg mark would be optimal for this year's success imo. He is a decent shot blocker and can alter shots. In very limited duty he has been an adequate post defender. Everyone on the team needs help on team and help defense, but that's a different story... He has also been adept at grabbing offensive boards and not trying to do too much.

However, the biggest positive of playing Marshall is that it would mean time Jabari doesn't have to spend playing out of position and guarding the opposing team's big. I don't see how defending the opponent's big for large parts of the game - when that isn't your natural position - isn't going to take away from your offensive game. When analyzing Jabari's D, I think too many people forget that he's not a Center. He's a combo forward and the most offensively skilled player Duke's ever had. By playing Marshall, it will provide Duke with a post presence while freeing Jabari of playing out of position.

MChambers
01-08-2014, 03:53 PM
probabalistically speaking, marshall would have to be a 4% free throw shooter to make it likely to miss 17 straight

for the record: here is the probability of missing 17 straight for a given free throw percentage:

10% - 16% chance of missing 17 straight
20% - 2% chance
30% - .2% chance

and it just goes down from there....needless to say, marshall is not a very good free throw shooter. I hope he is able to improve

It's a small sample size, but even so he's a very poor free throw shooter.

jv001
01-08-2014, 04:02 PM
It's a small sample size, but even so he's a very poor free throw shooter.

But his form isn't all that bad, but his results are terrible. GoDuke!

SupaDave
01-08-2014, 04:20 PM
Well the good news is that he's checking into more games. I'll take that as a positive.

There was a time when Mason couldn't touch the ball without traveling. Ponder that b/c Marshall has a variation of that same thing that was driving us crazy with Mason.

Ima Facultiwyfe
01-08-2014, 04:39 PM
But. I LOVE him! Bless his game-facing heart!

Love, Ima

Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15
01-08-2014, 04:56 PM
Marshall can't seem to synchronize his movement with the pace of the game when he is in.

Very well said. We have all heard great players in all sports talk about how the game will slow down when they are in the zone. Marshall seems to sometimes be subject to the opposite of that.

I think at this point, we all must hope that he "is" Brian Zoubek. At some magical, unexpected, crucial moment, the light will go on and he will make a massive leap.

Not sure that basketball programs get too many of those miracles. I will root for his success regardless!

Go Marshall!
Go Duke!

Kedsy
01-08-2014, 04:59 PM
I really like Marshall's progress. Early in the year, he'd damn near hyperventilate by walking on the court, but he's settled down quite nicely. I think the 15-20 mpg mark would be optimal for this year's success imo. He is a decent shot blocker and can alter shots. In very limited duty he has been an adequate post defender. Everyone on the team needs help on team and help defense, but that's a different story... He has also been adept at grabbing offensive boards and not trying to do too much.

However, the biggest positive of playing Marshall is that it would mean time Jabari doesn't have to spend playing out of position and guarding the opposing team's big. I don't see how defending the opponent's big for large parts of the game - when that isn't your natural position - isn't going to take away from your offensive game. When analyzing Jabari's D, I think too many people forget that he's not a Center. He's a combo forward and the most offensively skilled player Duke's ever had. By playing Marshall, it will provide Duke with a post presence while freeing Jabari of playing out of position.

Well, first of all, everyone around here is quick to mention the low sample size with regards to Marshall, and rightfully so, so talking about his offensive rebounding might not be fair. That said, he's been more than adept, he's been really good, with an offensive rebounding percentage of 15.9%. But if we're going to talk about that, we also might have to discuss his somewhat abysmal defensive rebounding in his limited minutes (8.4%, worse than both Quinn and Andre).

For Marshall to get 15 to 20 minutes he'd have to displace one of: Quinn, Rodney, Jabari, Amile, Rasheed, Andre, or Tyler in the primary rotation. In every game that Josh got more than 13 minutes this season, either Andre or Rasheed got 8 or fewer minutes.

Put another way, assuming 35 mpg for Quinn, 32 for Rodney, and 30 for Jabari (approximately what they've played so far), along with 65 combined for Rasheed + Andre + Tyler + Matt (again, approximately what they've been doing), plus 5 for Josh and none for Semi, then we have 33 minutes left for Amile and Marshall to split. If Amile plays 25, that leaves a maximum of 8 for Marshall. If the wings' minutes go up, that would leave even fewer minutes for the bigs. If Rodney and Jabari start playing 32 to 34 (as usually happens with Duke's best players as the year wears on, that would leave even fewer minutes for Marshall. So you may be right that 15 to 20 Marshall minutes may be optimal (though personally I doubt it), but it isn't very likely to happen.

weezie
01-08-2014, 05:11 PM
Well the good news is that he's checking into more games. I'll take that as a positive.

There was a time when Mason couldn't touch the ball without traveling. Ponder that b/c Marshall has a variation of that same thing that was driving us crazy with Mason.

SupaDave speaks from the light! Instead of the neggys, look to the positive signs. And wow, am I thrilled with Miles and Mason in the pros?! Lots of guys I speak with in the real world keep reminding me that hoops season is not a sprint but a marathon. And those same guys make me crazy but I grudgingly have to admit they are sometimes right....once in a while....sorta...but not to their faces. :cool:

vick
01-08-2014, 05:23 PM
Plumlee has been adept at getting offensive boards, but unless I'm really confused about the lineups people are envisioning, playing him 20 minutes would likely hurt rebounding as a team, because, unless we are talking about a Cook-Hood-Parker-Jefferson-Plumlee lineup (which does not seem optimal to me at all, though I don't think Parker-at-SF is as bad as some people think), it seems like you'd very likely have to take away minutes from Jefferson. Since Jefferson isn't just a better rebounder than Plumlee, but is as of now the best rebounder in the conference (http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2014&year_max=2014&conf_id=acc&school_id=&class_is_fr=Y&class_is_so=Y&class_is_jr=Y&class_is_sr=Y&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&qual=&c1stat=mp_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=5&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=trb_pct#stats::none), that seems to be a negative point for giving Plumlee lots of minutes.

CDu
01-08-2014, 05:31 PM
Well, first of all, everyone around here is quick to mention the low sample size with regards to Marshall, and rightfully so, so talking about his offensive rebounding might not be fair. That said, he's been more than adept, he's been really good, with an offensive rebounding percentage of 15.9%. But if we're going to talk about that, we also might have to discuss his somewhat abysmal defensive rebounding in his limited minutes (8.4%, worse than both Quinn and Andre).

For Marshall to get 15 to 20 minutes he'd have to displace one of: Quinn, Rodney, Jabari, Amile, Rasheed, Andre, or Tyler in the primary rotation. In every game that Josh got more than 13 minutes this season, either Andre or Rasheed got 8 or fewer minutes.

Put another way, assuming 35 mpg for Quinn, 32 for Rodney, and 30 for Jabari (approximately what they've played so far), along with 65 combined for Rasheed + Andre + Tyler + Matt (again, approximately what they've been doing), plus 5 for Josh and none for Semi, then we have 33 minutes left for Amile and Marshall to split. If Amile plays 25, that leaves a maximum of 8 for Marshall. If the wings' minutes go up, that would leave even fewer minutes for the bigs. If Rodney and Jabari start playing 32 to 34 (as usually happens with Duke's best players as the year wears on, that would leave even fewer minutes for Marshall. So you may be right that 15 to 20 Marshall minutes may be optimal (though personally I doubt it), but it isn't very likely to happen.

Nice work, Kedsy. Well said.

I would posit the following is our best-case scenario as a team (based on physical gifts and/or skill level):
C: Jefferson/Plumlee 36 mpg; Parker 4 mpg (when we go really small with Hood at PF)
PF: Parker/Jefferson/Hairston 40 mpg
SF: Hood 30-35 mpg, Dawkins/Sulaimon/Jones 5-10 mpg
SG: Sulaimon 25-30 mpg, Dawkins 5-10 mpg, Thornton/Jones 5 mpg
PG: Cook 30-35 mpg, Thornton 5-10 mpg

So I'd posit something like this per player:
Parker (32)
Hood (32)
Cook (32)
Sulaimon (28)
Jefferson (24)
Dawkins (18)
Thornton (16)
Plumlee (14)
Hairston/Jones/Ojeleye (4)

Of course, for that to be the best outcome, we'd need for Plumlee to really earn those minutes. Physically, he offers more than Hairston given his size and athleticism. And a guy with his size, if capable defensively, would be huge in terms of avoiding having Parker defend the post (where he is terrible).

Now, I have no idea how close Plumlee is to being ready to provide that contribution. He may be there already. He may not be anywhere close. But my gut says that this breakdown (or something similar to it) is probably what represents our ceiling as a team.

uh_no
01-08-2014, 05:33 PM
It's a small sample size, but even so he's a very poor free throw shooter.

even with the small sample size, we don't have evidence to reject the hypothesis that he is a <20% FT shooter (at 2 sigma)

miramar
01-08-2014, 05:37 PM
Also l) Players improve by getting minutes and playing through mistakes, but this only applies to certain players. Other players are what they are and can never improve regardless of how many minutes they play.

every horse runs his own race, as Coach K says, meaning that some players take longer than others.

I hope that he will develop since a real center would be a tremendous advantage against bigger teams, but we'll have to wait and see.

Troublemaker
01-08-2014, 05:52 PM
Well the good news is that he's checking into more games.


SupaDave speaks from the light! Instead of the neggys, look to the positive signs. And wow, am I thrilled with Miles and Mason in the pros?! Lots of guys I speak with in the real world keep reminding me that hoops season is not a sprint but a marathon. And those same guys make me crazy but I grudgingly have to admit they are sometimes right....once in a while....sorta...but not to their faces. :cool:

Agreed. For the time being, I am still very hopeful about Marshall (despite his short arms).

What matters more for MP3 at this point isn't his total minutes played, but that he is checking into games in the first half, sometimes the first or second round of substitutions. If there were no hope for him this season, I think he would only receive minutes at the end of blowouts.

A short stint in the first half can become a short stint in both halves can become two short stints in the first half and one short stint in the second; 2mpg can become 5mpg can become 10mpg.

Let's stay patient and see how it plays out. If things don't progress that way, I'm sure there would be good reason, but I'm thinking things WILL progress that way. Especially since he spent his offseason rehabbing after surgery instead of playing basketball, I don't need my 10-15mpg dreams about Marshall to come true right now, right away, in early January.

Furniture
01-08-2014, 06:35 PM
I really like Marshall's progress. Early in the year, he'd damn near hyperventilate by walking on the court, but he's settled down quite nicely. I think the 15-20 mpg mark would be optimal for this year's success imo. He is a decent shot blocker and can alter shots. In very limited duty he has been an adequate post defender. Everyone on the team needs help on team and help defense, but that's a different story... He has also been adept at grabbing offensive boards and not trying to do too much.

However, the biggest positive of playing Marshall is that it would mean time Jabari doesn't have to spend playing out of position and guarding the opposing team's big. I don't see how defending the opponent's big for large parts of the game - when that isn't your natural position - isn't going to take away from your offensive game. When analyzing Jabari's D, I think too many people forget that he's not a Center. He's a combo forward and the most offensively skilled player Duke's ever had. By playing Marshall, it will provide Duke with a post presence while freeing Jabari of playing out of position.

I also thought that he was much more relaxed this last game. The boy is growing up. I am pulling for him!

CDu
01-08-2014, 06:41 PM
He does seem a little less spastic these days than he did last year or even very early this year. I hope that's a sign of good things to come. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts in this thread, I think our team's ceiling will be highest if he's good enough to give us 10-15 mpg of solid play. I don't know how close he is to being ready to do that right now. But if he isn't already there, I hope he's able to get there sometime between now and tourney time.

SoCalDukeFan
01-08-2014, 06:51 PM
I don't care if Miles and Mason are co MVP of the NBA, the only thing that matters is Marshall and how he plays.

He seems to be getting more comfortable on the court. He does make mistakes and leaving him in too long after the mistakes may lead to more mistakes which could hurt his confidence.

I think he is just a work in progress. Maybe someday it will click.

SoCal

FireOgilvie
01-08-2014, 07:29 PM
It's a small sample size, but even so he's a very poor free throw shooter.

Marshall is our most consistent free throw shooter.

Bluedevil114
01-08-2014, 08:28 PM
Marshall is our most consistent free throw shooter.

I was at the game last night. Before the tip off I saw him hit three straight free throws and all three hit nothing but net. His form looked great. At this point it is just confidence and reps.

MCFinARL
01-08-2014, 09:06 PM
Never has a college basketball player so resembled Hilary Swank

=

Aforementioned discussion tropes A through K

Wow--I hadn't thought about that, but now that you mention it, I've never seen both of them in the same place at the same time. Do you think----?

Dukehky
01-08-2014, 10:36 PM
Agreed. For the time being, I am still very hopeful about Marshall (despite his short arms).

What matters more for MP3 at this point isn't his total minutes played, but that he is checking into games in the first half, sometimes the first or second round of substitutions. If there were no hope for him this season, I think he would only receive minutes at the end of blowouts.

A short stint in the first half can become a short stint in both halves can become two short stints in the first half and one short stint in the second; 2mpg can become 5mpg can become 10mpg.

Let's stay patient and see how it plays out. If things don't progress that way, I'm sure there would be good reason, but I'm thinking things WILL progress that way. Especially since he spent his offseason rehabbing after surgery instead of playing basketball, I don't need my 10-15mpg dreams about Marshall to come true right now, right away, in early January.

I noticed the point you made about his coming in fairly early. However, I thought against Tech he played pretty well, got a blocked shot, didn't seem to screw up any rotations, and I know that AJ was boarding well, but I just don't understand why he didn't get more run as the game progressed. he seems to be putting it together on the defensive end way more so than offensively, but if we're dropping Hairston's minutes, it surprises me that Marshall isn't taking more than 3-4 of those minutos. I have hope that he will become more and more of a factor as the season progresses because as constituted we could beat any team on any given night; however, we could also lose to some pretty mediocre teams and not to say that Marshall would negate that, but I feel like a rim protector/drive deterrent certainly couldn't hurt.

This may all be optimism, and if he played for we may get hurt badly because of it. Plus, I just like the Marshall roars and would like to see more of them.

kAzE
01-09-2014, 03:02 AM
I don't care if Miles and Mason are co MVP of the NBA, the only thing that matters is Marshall and how he plays.

SoCal

Well . . . if that happened, we'd start getting tons of elite big men lining up to come to Duke. The success of our alums in the NBA has a deep impact on the success of our program. Plus, come on, it's fun to root for our guys at the next level.

Rickshaw
01-09-2014, 05:51 AM
Marshall missed the last two summers............it will take time for him to be ready

Troublemaker
01-09-2014, 09:22 AM
I noticed the point you made about his coming in fairly early. However, I thought against Tech he played pretty well, got a blocked shot, didn't seem to screw up any rotations, and I know that AJ was boarding well, but I just don't understand why he didn't get more run as the game progressed. he seems to be putting it together on the defensive end way more so than offensively, but if we're dropping Hairston's minutes, it surprises me that Marshall isn't taking more than 3-4 of those minutos.

Yeah, I certainly wasn't unhappy with MP3's play during his two minutes against GaTech. (It was too short a stint to have a strong opinion about it either way, imo). I think he didn't get a second stint because Coach K decided to go small with Hood at the 4 for much of the game, so all the minutes at the 5 went to Amile and Jabari. There will be opponents where this isn't possible (i.e. they have a big, talented 4), or where Amile gets into foul trouble and Jabari isn't defending the post well. When this happens, provided MP3 continues to progress in practice, I could see him being the choice for Coach K over Hairston. Maybe not now, not right away, but eventually.


I have hope that he will become more and more of a factor as the season progresses because as constituted we could beat any team on any given night; however, we could also lose to some pretty mediocre teams and not to say that Marshall would negate that, but I feel like a rim protector/drive deterrent certainly couldn't hurt.

Agreed. I have been hopeful re: Marshall since the preseason. Not going to stop now.

UrinalCake
01-09-2014, 09:31 AM
The OP also left out

N. He is still recovering from his foot injury last summer, which really set him back and is causing him to take longer to round into form.


I think Coach K plays every game to win. He's not going to sacrifice a game now in order to get a player more minutes. I also think K wants to keep Marshall's confidence up, thus using him in small doses. He thinks if he plays Marshall 20 minutes and he commits 8 turnovers and we lose the game because of him, it will wreck his confidence and do more harm than good psychologically.

jv001
01-09-2014, 09:39 AM
The OP also left out

N. He is still recovering from his foot injury last summer, which really set him back and is causing him to take longer to round into form.


I think Coach K plays every game to win. He's not going to sacrifice a game now in order to get a player more minutes. I also think K wants to keep Marshall's confidence up, thus using him in small doses. He thinks if he plays Marshall 20 minutes and he commits 8 turnovers and we lose the game because of him, it will wreck his confidence and do more harm than good psychologically.

Great points about recovering from his foot injury and building his confidence. Coach K is a master when it comes to leading men. Be it, military or young college basketball players. He's not going to let Marshall lose a game at this point in his career. That's where TRUST comes in. MP3 is going to have to earn Coach's trust. I just believe a few more minutes this time of year, will not hurt him, but will help him. That's just my thoughts. GoDuke!

Lar77
01-09-2014, 09:46 AM
I think MP3 has become more fluid in his limited time on court in the last few games. I agree with the earlier post that his limited time was a result of a decision to go small. I'd like to see more of MP3.
Seeing Amile stand next to Miller at one point shows how much we give away physically (although I think Jefferson overcame that disadvantage with positioning, quickness, and effort). Miller was not called for a foul all game. Not one. Even though he was beating up Jabari constantly.
I like having Jefferson and Parker on the floor at the same time based on situation, but I think having Josh and MP3 to provide inside muscle on occasion (if just to give the other two a rest) will help when we play teams like Syracuse and Pitt (and Carolina will try to muscle us inside too since they really can't beat us on the perimeter).

Dukehky
01-09-2014, 10:02 AM
I think MP3 has become more fluid in his limited time on court in the last few games. I agree with the earlier post that his limited time was a result of a decision to go small. I'd like to see more of MP3.
Seeing Amile stand next to Miller at one point shows how much we give away physically (although I think Jefferson overcame that disadvantage with positioning, quickness, and effort). Miller was not called for a foul all game. Not one. Even though he was beating up Jabari constantly.
I like having Jefferson and Parker on the floor at the same time based on situation, but I think having Josh and MP3 to provide inside muscle on occasion (if just to give the other two a rest) will help when we play teams like Syracuse and Pitt (and Carolina will try to muscle us inside too since they really can't beat us on the perimeter).

Unless we are up or down by 20 points, I cannot disagree strongly enough with this idea. I never want to see that, and I doubt K will ever do it. I like where your heads at, you know, you wanna go big, but that would not be good. In fact, if Marshall and Josh are ever in a game at the same time during a meaningful minute I will give you all my Star Wars action figures. Except Boba Fet, no matter how sure I am, I never risk the Fet-man.

Kfanarmy
01-09-2014, 10:08 AM
He isn't in a situation where there are two or three guys in practice who are going to simulate the opposition, like a wing or PG might find. He can practice fundamentals in practice, but if he's going to get better playing against people his size (height and weight), the only place he's going to find that at the moment is on the court during a game. IMO his growth is being retarded by limited playing time.

moonpie23
01-09-2014, 10:16 AM
the "big man guru", my son, Sam - who predicted that Brian Zoubek would be the player of the year for duke and help win a national championship told me this:

Marshall isn't like his brothers, he just needs to get his balance back from being hurt, then watch some tape of Zoubek. He'll be fine when we need him"

sounds legitů.

tommy
01-09-2014, 11:06 AM
He isn't in a situation where there are two or three guys in practice who are going to simulate the opposition, like a wing or PG might find. He can practice fundamentals in practice, but if he's going to get better playing against people his size (height and weight), the only place he's going to find that at the moment is on the court during a game. IMO his growth is being retarded by limited playing time.

What if, at practice, he's routinely being beaten on the inside during scrimmages and other full-court simulations by the likes of Amile, Josh, Semi, and Jabari -- guys who aren't even as big as the guys you'd like to see him play against in games? What if he can't handle 6'8" 225 pound guys in those practice situations, and K believes that things would only be worse against bigger and stronger guys?

MChambers
01-09-2014, 11:12 AM
the "big man guru", my son, Sam - who predicted that Brian Zoubek would be the player of the year for duke and help win a national championship told me this:

Marshall isn't like his brothers, he just needs to get his balance back from being hurt, then watch some tape of Zoubek. He'll be fine when we need him"

sounds legitů.
Your son has been consulting with Greybeard!

greybeard
01-09-2014, 11:53 AM
Damn, a guy runs into someone in a restaurant, who would have thought he was related to someone who is a player here. There are no monopolies. I think I'd enjoy kicking it with Sam. Actually, for sure.

Kfanarmy
01-09-2014, 12:16 PM
What if, at practice, he's routinely being beaten on the inside during scrimmages and other full-court simulations by the likes of Amile, Josh, Semi, and Jabari -- guys who aren't even as big as the guys you'd like to see him play against in games? What if he can't handle 6'8" 225 pound guys in those practice situations, and K believes that things would only be worse against bigger and stronger guys? Then he shouldn't, but by what limited news we've seen from the staff that hasn't been the case. Frankly, if they play defense well enough, he shouldn't have to face smaller, faster guys around the rim routinely.

OldSchool
01-09-2014, 01:23 PM
I too think he is still not fully back from the foot injury to how he was before. He doesn't look as nimble or light on his feet as he did before the injury, although he looks better every game. I suspect that he hasn't gotten fully back the fast-twitch muscle that he lost during recovery.

Lar77
01-09-2014, 01:24 PM
Unless we are up or down by 20 points, I cannot disagree strongly enough with this idea. I never want to see that, and I doubt K will ever do it. I like where your heads at, you know, you wanna go big, but that would not be good. In fact, if Marshall and Josh are ever in a game at the same time during a meaningful minute I will give you all my Star Wars action figures. Except Boba Fet, no matter how sure I am, I never risk the Fet-man.

My bad. Did not mean for them to be on the floor at the same time. But if it happens, I will be calling you.;)

greybeard
01-09-2014, 02:06 PM
A stress injury happens because the way one carries and uses oneself causes it. A kinesthesiologist can map an ideal organization for weight distribution that will not cause such an injury and 3-D imaging with trainers instructing will not necessarily produce the degree of change that will work. Trying to put in practice something that you have not self-learned, chosen through experimentation based on sense and feel that works better for you, that your brain embraces, will slow you down. Who knows, just saying. Stress fractures never become "all better," the dis-ease that grew to the point of a crack does not disappear, and the degree that new learning will permit greater ease can be elusive, no matter how one performs in rehabilitative and training drills.

Saratoga2
01-09-2014, 02:06 PM
What if, at practice, he's routinely being beaten on the inside during scrimmages and other full-court simulations by the likes of Amile, Josh, Semi, and Jabari -- guys who aren't even as big as the guys you'd like to see him play against in games? What if he can't handle 6'8" 225 pound guys in those practice situations, and K believes that things would only be worse against bigger and stronger guys?

What we have seen recently are small samples since he got 4 and 2 minutes in his last two games. To me his performance was respectable when compared to our other bigs. Amile has started to stand out but to date Hairston has only be fair, Semi hasn't played at all and Jabari's inside defense is typical of a freshman. We lament the availability of a big man when we have a nearly 7 foot 260 pound athletic guy who appears to be coming along. I would like to see him get into the games for 5 to 8 minutes a game except a crunch time.

Dukehky
01-09-2014, 02:19 PM
Plus, if they go hack a Marshall, then there is more of a chance he'll make a free throw this season. I like it!!!! Put him in!

rsvman
01-09-2014, 03:14 PM
There's always a lot of talk about how uncoordinated or "non-fluid" or pick your descriptive term Marshall is, as though being non-fluid was somehow an impossible-to-overcome handicap in the game of basketball.


How quickly the masses forget our now thankfully departed Tyler Hanstravel! He looked worse than Marshall pretty much the entire four years, but is the leading scorer in ACC history.



(I'll give you that as a free-throw shooter he was just the tiniest bit more adept than Marshall, though.) ;)

Gthoma2a
01-09-2014, 03:25 PM
There's always a lot of talk about how uncoordinated or "non-fluid" or pick your descriptive term Marshall is, as though being non-fluid was somehow an impossible-to-overcome handicap in the game of basketball.


How quickly the masses forget our now thankfully departed Tyler Hanstravel! He looked worse than Marshall pretty much the entire four years, but is the leading scorer in ACC history.



(I'll give you that as a free-throw shooter he was just the tiniest bit more adept than Marshall, though.) ;)

You mean this guy? He was poetry in motion, just ask any UNC fan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zna9Q5_Qufc

sagegrouse
01-09-2014, 03:57 PM
(I'll give you that as a free-throw shooter he was just the tiniest bit more adept than Marshall, though.) ;)

Hansbrough shot for a higher FT percentage than Marshall, but he wasn't more consistent.

flyingdutchdevil
01-09-2014, 04:08 PM
Hansbrough shot for a higher FT percentage than Marshall, but he wasn't more consistent.

Marshall is the most consistent FT shooter in the ACC. Ever.

Love it!

dukejunkie
01-10-2014, 04:45 PM
Unless we are up or down by 20 points, I cannot disagree strongly enough with this idea. I never want to see that, and I doubt K will ever do it. I like where your heads at, you know, you wanna go big, but that would not be good. In fact, if Marshall and Josh are ever in a game at the same time during a meaningful minute I will give you all my Star Wars action figures. Except Boba Fet, no matter how sure I am, I never risk the Fet-man.

Now you have me thinking. Don't necessarily believe this will ever happen (nor should) but I think the roof would blow off of Cameron if the starting lineup is ever announced something like this:

Jefferson
Cook
Hood
Parker
and MARSHALL PLUMLEE!

Maybe vs UNC... Unfortunately for most on the boards, this lineup might not be tall enough ;)