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View Full Version : MBB: @ Notre Dame Pre-Game and In-Game Thread (1/4, 4:00, CBS)



pfrduke
01-02-2014, 08:11 AM
Conference play! Duke is playing the Irish for the first time since the 2002 NCAA tournament and is making its first trip to the Joyce Center since 1995 (that 1995 game was the end of an 11-year period during which Duke and Notre Dame played annually - Duke went 11-1 (the teams played twice in the 90-91 season) and its only loss, which also is its last loss to Notre Dame, came in overtime at the Joyce Center in 1987). Notre Dame is one of the (many) ACC teams that had a rough start to the season, dropping home games to Indiana State and North Dakota State, losing at Iowa and in heartbreaking fashion to Ohio State, and, perhaps most harmfully, losing Jerian Grant and Cameron Biedscheid for the season.

After losing Grant, the Irish shifted 6'10" Tom Knight into the starting lineup alongside 6'11" Garrick Sherman, giving them a healthy amount of size inside. Sherman in particular is a very strong rebounder, an effective interior scorer, and the focus of the Notre Dame offense when he's on the court. Demetrius Jackson, Eric Atkins, and Pat Connaughton as the nominal 3. All 3 hit above 40% from beyond the arc, although the Irish are not overly reliant on the 3 ball to generate offense.

Notre Dame's bench is thin overall and non-existent at the guard position - in the Canisius game (the first post-Grant suspension) Atkins and Connaughton played the full 45 minutes, and everyone off the bench runs 6'6" or taller (Steve Vasturia, a 6'6" freshman, is listed as a guard on the roster. He has a total of 15 points and 72 minutes on the season, 5 and 22 of which, respectively, came against Canisius, so he's the sole backcourt relief). Barring foul issues, I would expect a similar rotation against Duke - don't expect Atkins or Connaughton to come off the floor.

Atkins and Sherman are both excellent players, and Duke will have its hands full containing them. Quinn Cook has shown much improved defense of late, and he's likely to get the primary assignment on Atkins. Post defense will likely be by committee, although Jefferson and Hairston are likely to get primary responsibility for Sherman.

When Duke has the ball, Notre Dame is at a significant disadvantage. Knight is not well suited to chasing Parker around the perimeter and when Jefferson is on the court, he's too quick for Sherman. Hood has a big mismatch when Connaughton is guarding him - he's bigger, stronger, and faster. Notre Dame as a team is particularly vulnerable from 3 - they don't stop opponents from shooting them or making them. Opponents take nearly 35% of their shots against the Irish from deep and make 3 of every 8. Expect Duke's shooters to have plenty of open looks from the perimeter. This is an ideal game for Dawkins.

Road wins are never easy, doubly so in conference play - Duke has lost 3 of its last 4 road openers in ACC play. Notre Dame remains a dangerous team, even without Grant. But this is a game that the Devils should win - there are simply too many spots on the floor and too many facets of the game at which Duke is just better.

flyingdutchdevil
01-02-2014, 08:36 AM
Thanks for the write-up, pfrduke!

I'm interested in the following:

1) How our youngins respond to the first true road game of the season. On top of D, communication, and cohesiveness, Thornton and Hairston will be relied upon for keeping this team composed under hostile conditions. Cook, as the emotional leader of the team, will also need to use that energy for positive outcomes.

2) How Jabari responds after a poor shooting game. Last game was arguable his 'worst' offensive production this season and I want to see him not overthink anything. He is light years above most freshman right now, but he's still a freshman. I hope he doesn't force anything.

3) How the firm of Dawkins, Jefferson & Sulaimon fares. With ACC play officially here, Coach K likes to tighten up the bench a little. But with the firm, that's just not possible. They are too good and provide too much [enter stat here]. Thornton and Hairston will start, no doubt. But the firm will get more minutes.

BD80
01-02-2014, 08:37 AM
Conference play! Duke is playing the Irish for the first time since the 2002 NCAA tournament and is making its first trip to the Joyce Center since 1995 ...

... Notre Dame's bench is thin overall and non-existent at the guard position - in the Canisius game (the first post-Grant suspension) Atkins and Connaughton played the full 45 minutes, and everyone off the bench runs 6'6" or taller (Steve Vasturia, a 6'6" freshman, is listed as a guard on the roster. He has a total of 15 points and 72 minutes on the season, 5 and 22 of which, respectively, came against Canisius, so he's the sole backcourt relief). Barring foul issues, I would expect a similar rotation against Duke - don't expect Atkins or Connaughton to come off the floor.

... this is a game that the Devils should win - there are simply too many spots on the floor and too many facets of the game at which Duke is just better.

We have recently shown some signs of extending the defensive pressure, I think this would be an excellent game to take it up another notch. We can run multiple guards in to maintain intensity, wear ND's guards down, create turnovers and make passes into the post very difficult. This is a game where Tyler can really set the tone on D.

However, this is a game where Rasheed can put pressure on ND's guards on offense by driving the ball and drawing fouls.

It will be interesting to see the mood of the team as Coach K will have flown on ahead for his brother's funeral, I would guess at least Wojo will be with him. Its up Capel and Nate and Jon to get them ready and to South Bend.

GGLC
01-02-2014, 09:06 AM
I note that it's still very difficult/non-intuitive to find any information about upcoming game dates/times/broadcast info from the DBR home page, so if posters could put that info in the pre-game thread (as was done for Elon, for example), that would be amazingly helpful. :)

MChambers
01-02-2014, 09:13 AM
It just seems wrong to open ACC play against Notre Dame, but it is what it is.

Obviously, Notre Dame's got some major matchup and depth issues with Grant out. Knight, in particular, has a very difficult matchup. I'm hoping Duke can force the tempo on both ends of the court.

JasonEvans
01-02-2014, 09:13 AM
How the firm of Dawkins, Jefferson & Sulaimon fares. With ACC play officially here, Coach K likes to tighten up the bench a little. But with the firm, that's just not possible. They are too good and provide too much [enter stat here]. Thornton and Hairston will start, no doubt. But the firm will get more minutes.

While I love what our bench has been bringing to the table in recent games, I think some are too quickly dismissing the senior starters and the importance of players who know how to communicate on the defensive side of the ball. It has been easy to sit the seniors in recent games because Duke was going to win those games no matter who played. It was important to get minutes and experience for the bench guys, particularly allowing them to play with Jabari and Hood. But, even against a somewhat weaker than usual Notre Dame team, Duke will not have quite the same luxury.

So, I am here to say that I bet at least Thornton sees more playing time than one or maybe even two of "The Firm." I expect Tyler to play around 20-25 minutes per game over the next few weeks and while it is possible one of Dawkins or (more likely) Sulaimon step up and force his minutes into the teens, I won't be all that surprised if Tyler stays a 20+ mpg guy throughout the rest of the season.

-Jason "there is a real value in communication and in being in the right place at the right time -- things that JH and TT excel at" Evans

GGLC
01-02-2014, 09:21 AM
Thanks for the title change!

BD80
01-02-2014, 09:30 AM
I notice that ND does not start classes until the 14th, with dorms opening on the 12th. Will there be much of a student body in attendance?

Also, this is somewhat of a return home for Jabari, Chicago is just down the road.

The Midwest has had a bit of a winter storm, with 6-10" inches of snow in parts of Indiana, tapering off today, but lots of wind and drifting through tomorrow. May limit the crowd some on Saturday.

Reilly
01-02-2014, 09:39 AM
May be good for K that Brey is on the other bench ... just makes it all more like a family affair, and somewhat supportive, given this rough week for K ...

flyingdutchdevil
01-02-2014, 09:41 AM
While I love what our bench has been bringing to the table in recent games, I think some are too quickly dismissing the senior starters and the importance of players who know how to communicate on the defensive side of the ball. It has been easy to sit the seniors in recent games because Duke was going to win those games no matter who played. It was important to get minutes and experience for the bench guys, particularly allowing them to play with Jabari and Hood. But, even against a somewhat weaker than usual Notre Dame team, Duke will not have quite the same luxury.

So, I am here to say that I bet at least Thornton sees more playing time than one or maybe even two of "The Firm." I expect Tyler to play around 20-25 minutes per game over the next few weeks and while it is possible one of Dawkins or (more likely) Sulaimon step up and force his minutes into the teens, I won't be all that surprised if Tyler stays a 20+ mpg guy throughout the rest of the season.

-Jason "there is a real value in communication and in being in the right place at the right time -- things that JH and TT excel at" Evans

Jason - as per 1) of my post above, I 100% agree with you that Thornton and Hairston will play plenty. They add a lot of value to the team as many of us - including you - have pointed out. However, as this team is an evolving creature, we will see changes down the road. Dawkins, Sulaimon & Jefferson are more talented and if they can continue to improve, they do provide more value. That isn't to say that Thornton and Hairston aren't talented and don't provide value, but that DS&J provide more value (and in some cases, it is significantly more valuable).

The ND game may be that turning point, it may not. But I do suspect that a) Thornton's and Hairston's minutes will decrease over time and b) by March, our starters at the 2 and 5 will change.

ChillinDuke
01-02-2014, 10:00 AM
If I had to guess (just a guess), I would venture that Thornton and Hairston have two main roles which will command their minutes going forward.

1) Balance the team in times of pressure/uncharted situations for our young guys; and
2) Spell players when tired or in foul trouble.

Regarding #1, the team's first true conference road matchup would lead me to believe TT and Josh will at the very least start in order to anchor the team's psyche in the formative minutes. So with that, I expect TT and Josh's minutes to be correlated to the skittishness of the team. If we come out composed and structured (regardless of score), I expect Andre and Amile by or around the first TV timeout.

I'm excited to see how the team reacts to this road test. While ND is similar to Duke in that it's more of a national school with students from all over (and thus not necessarily on or near campus for the game), I expect the Joyce to be rocking for ND's inaugural ACC contest, and multiplied by the fact they are playing Duke.

- Chillin

PS - I'd also like to remind others that Andre is a 5th year senior as well, with arguably a more distinctive experience which has tested his character over the last few years. TT and Josh may exhibit great composure and leadership on the court, but let's not forget that Andre is, at the very least, a senior in title and beyond one in age. As someone who likened his shooting ability to breathing, Dre does not strike me as someone who is content to just go quietly off into the sunset. So in more than just title, I expect him to begin to embrace holding the reigns as his 3s continue to fall and the end of his time in Durham begins to take focus on the horizon.

Troublemaker
01-02-2014, 01:02 PM
PS - I'd also like to remind others that Andre is a 5th year senior as well, with arguably a more distinctive experience which has tested his character over the last few years. TT and Josh may exhibit great composure and leadership on the court, but let's not forget that Andre is, at the very least, a senior in title and beyond one in age.

Yes! Coach K has been complimenting Andre for being a great teammate and good leader this season. Very happy for Dre and proud of him.

Dre was originally part of the same high school class as Tyler and Josh. He came a year early to Duke to help us win the 2010 title but taking last year off has now put him back in the same basketball class as Tyler and Josh.

I remember following recruiting when these guys were back in high school. Andre committed first and was working Josh hard to join him at Duke. When Josh committed later, Duke fans were loving it and thanking Andre for being such a force for Duke on the recruiting trail. Yes, this stuff really happened. Nostalgia.

Troublemaker
01-02-2014, 01:14 PM
When Tom Knight is in, Notre Dame will probably zone Duke. Otherwise, as others have mentioned, it'll be a joke watching him try to cover Jabari.

But Notre Dame will end up playing a lot of Vasturia (6'6" 207) and Beachem (6'8" 187) at the 4. When they do that, ND might use m2m defense and Jabari can take those guys to the post and punish them there. Still, Brey will probably prefer to have those guys in there at the 4 and sometimes also Austin Burgett (6'9" 227) because they're at least a threat to hit a 3-pt shot. Brey likes to keep the floor spread. Before the Jerian Grant suspension, Connaughton was mostly playing the 4.

I'm thinking Elon was basically a mid-major version of what we'll see with Notre Dame. Our big guys will have to defend Garrick Sherman and his sub Zack Auguste 1-on-1 inside. We're going to stay draped on their 3-pt shooters. Atkins can probably penetrate better than any Elon guard, though. We do a good job on him and it should be a victory for Duke.

superdave
01-02-2014, 01:48 PM
Jerian Grant was averaging 19.0 and 6.2 at point for ND this season. Solid numbers. By comparison, Quinn Cook is averaging 13.5 and 6.3.

ND had to go into OT to beat Canisius. Eric Atkins had 30 for them in the game, and played all 45 minutes. His previous high this season was 23 points and he's now averaging 13 on the season. Atkins, Connaughton and Jackson are all shooting 41% or better from 3 while Duke is holding opponents to 27.5%. That is likely to be a defensive point of emphasis.

I would imagine we will see zone zone zone zone zone.....etc. Has any opponent not played a bunch of zone against us this season? Kansas maybe.

flyingdutchdevil
01-02-2014, 01:52 PM
Jerian Grant was averaging 19.0 and 6.2 at point for ND this season. Solid numbers. By comparison, Quinn Cook is averaging 13.5 and 6.3.

ND had to go into OT to beat Canisius. Eric Atkins had 30 for them in the game, and played all 45 minutes. His previous high this season was 23 points and he's now averaging 13 on the season. Atkins, Connaughton and Jackson are all shooting 41% or better from 3 while Duke is holding opponents to 27.5%. That is likely to be a defensive point of emphasis.

I would imagine we will see zone zone zone zone zone.....etc. Has any opponent not played a bunch of zone against us this season? Kansas maybe.

With shooters Andre, Hood, Jabari (and possibly Rasheed and Cook), zone just sounds like a really really bad idea. I know trying to guard Jabari and Hood 1-on-1 is also a bad idea, but we have a lot more capable shooters then penetrators.

If I was the opposing coach, I'd go man on man, prevent Andre from touching the ball, double Jabari, and leave the middle man open. And I'm pretty sure that's why I'm not a coach.

Furniture
01-02-2014, 02:21 PM
It it just me or does anyone else feel that this endless "my dad is bigger than your dad" josh and tyler vs. the others minutes is becoming a little boring. I think everybody should agree to disagree. There seems to be no point in discussing it anymore. Only time and K, will tell us what will happen!

CameronBlue
01-02-2014, 02:39 PM
It just seems wrong to open ACC play against Notre Dame, but it is what it is.



I'm trying to decide whether I will henceforth refer to them as "Partial Member" Notre Dame, "Occasional Member" Notre Dame or "Member When It Suits Them" Notre Dame. Maybe something with a hyphen...

superdave
01-02-2014, 02:40 PM
It it just me or does anyone else feel that this endless "my dad is bigger than your dad" josh and tyler vs. the others minutes is becoming a little boring. I think everybody should agree to disagree. There seems to be no point in discussing it anymore. Only time and K, will tell us what will happen!

Rather than type all this out....next time just post 1a/1k (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?10527-DBR-Manifesto-%28AKA-Throaty-s-Handy-Pocket-Reference%29&p=672204#post672204) and everyone will know what you mean.

jv001
01-02-2014, 02:50 PM
I'm anxious to see if Andre can keep the "hot hand" going on the road. I think that determine his minutes in the first true road game(although his defense has been much better). As for Rasheed, I think he's back on track and his defense will keep him in the rotation. Amile will probably come in around the first tv timeout and get more of Josh's minutes. But Josh and TT will probably start and try to keep the youngsters focused. I like our chances of leaving with a win in a close game. GoDuke!

BD80
01-02-2014, 03:13 PM
I'm trying to decide whether I will henceforth refer to them as "Partial Member" Notre Dame, "Occasional Member" Notre Dame or "Member When It Suits Them" Notre Dame. Maybe something with a hyphen...

There is a joke about only going in part way, probably not suitable here, but fits in with the ND culture

Reilly
01-02-2014, 03:21 PM
I'm trying to decide whether I will henceforth refer to them as "Partial Member" Notre Dame, "Occasional Member" Notre Dame or "Member When It Suits Them" Notre Dame. Maybe something with a hyphen...

ABF (all but football) ... sorta like ABD (all but dissertation) ...

Furniture
01-02-2014, 04:23 PM
Rather than type all this out....next time just post 1a/1k (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?10527-DBR-Manifesto-%28AKA-Throaty-s-Handy-Pocket-Reference%29&p=672204#post672204) and everyone will know what you mean.

Took me a few seconds to figure that out but thanks for the history lesson. Much appreciated!
By the way. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I hope I didn't.

Waynne
01-02-2014, 09:36 PM
I'm anxious to see if Andre can keep the "hot hand" going on the road. I think that determine his minutes in the first true road game(although his defense has been much better). As for Rasheed, I think he's back on track and his defense will keep him in the rotation. Amile will probably come in around the first tv timeout and get more of Josh's minutes. But Josh and TT will probably start and try to keep the youngsters focused. I like our chances of leaving with a win in a close game. GoDuke!

Not to prolong the debate, but my wild guess is Josh and TT will continue to start until we lose a game, after which Coach K will tweak the starting lineup. The lineup strategy works at present, and as long as it works there may be little motivation to change it. Why? First, I think Josh and Tyler set a hard-nosed, tough tone early in the game, and secondly Jabiri seems to do a fair amount of scoring while they're in the game, both good things that mitigate against a lineup change now.

Having gone out on this limb, I realize Sheed and Amile likely will start at Notre Dame.

Troublemaker
01-02-2014, 10:44 PM
Short article about Duke practicing without Coach K while he's in Chicago: http://www.fayobserver.com/blogs/sports/acc_basketball/article_ba776702-7406-11e3-918a-001a4bcf6878.html


The team practiced in Durham on Wednesday and Thursday, with associate head coach Steve Wojciechowski and associate coach Jeff Capel leading the second workout.

"It's obviously different because (Krzyzewski's) presence really has us on our Ps and Qs," said Hood, a tri-captain. "That was our emphasis (Thursday), being a mature team. It couldn't be like a substitute teacher in high school."


"When one of our guys are down or one of our guys are in some struggles, that's when we're the closest and that's when we bond the closest,” sophomore Amile Jefferson said. “Being in this family, that's what I've learned - we all have each other's back at all times, no matter what the issue is."


Duke players Andre Dawkins, Matt Jones, Rasheed Sulaimon and Tyler Thornton hugged Krzyzewski on Saturday before he could even shake hands with Eastern Michigan coach Rob Murphy following the Blue Devils' 82-59 victory.

Duke of Nashville
01-02-2014, 10:50 PM
Just something to watch out for but there is quite a bit of chatter about a potential blizzard hitting Central Indiana Saturday night. 8-10" of snow, 20-30 mph winds and wind chill temperatures around -15. :cool:

subzero02
01-03-2014, 01:59 AM
I look forward to seeing how Jabari Parker handles a hostile crowd on the road... I love conference play, let's play like a champion on saturday ;-)

MCFinARL
01-04-2014, 06:21 AM
Just bumping this--confused when I didn't see the thread on the first page.

Otherwise, I'm looking forward to what will be a new kind of test for the team in a lot of ways--conference opponent, on the road, etc.--and I expect, regardless of the exact number of minutes, that the leadership roles of Tyler, Josh, and Andre will be very important.

Bob Green
01-04-2014, 06:38 AM
First and foremost, I will be looking for a Duke win today (Hello, Captain Obvious!). After that, watching how Coach Krzyzewski distributes the minutes will be my main focus. Who plays and how much today and over the next several games is important. A couple of immediate questions:

1. Can Dawkins start 2014 with the same hot hand he finished with in 2013?

2. Will Marshall Plumlee play any meaningful minutes?

The conference schedule starts today so it is time to get serious. The warm up games are over.

Newton_14
01-04-2014, 07:22 AM
First and foremost, I will be looking for a Duke win today (Hello, Captain Obvious!). After that, watching how Coach Krzyzewski distributes the minutes will be my main focus. Who plays and how much today and over the next several games is important. A couple of immediate questions:

1. Can Dawkins start 2014 with the same hot hand he finished with in 2013?

2. Will Marshall Plumlee play any meaningful minutes?

The conference schedule starts today so it is time to get serious. The warm up games are over.

Warmup games over indeed. I am always anxious to watch the first road game, as well as the first few road games, to see how that particular Duke team plays on the road in hostile environments. The Battier teams set the bar incredibly high in this category. Over the years, some Duke teams embrace the environment and take great pride in winning at the opponent's gym, which led to those teams having a high winning % on the road. Other Duke teams have played tentative and nervous, with the "Deer in the Headlights" look, which led to those teams struggling on the road. What kind of road team will the 2013/14 Duke team (Fast and Furious) be? We start learning as of today.

I am looking for a win as well, but we have youngster's playing key roles that will get their feet wet for the first time today. How will they respond? Like Kedsy mentioned in other threads, if the guys show any weakness or tentativeness today, K will not hesitate to play Tyler and Josh heavy minutes, and Andre as well if he is fairing well on defense.

I would expect that all 3 of the Senior's will not be impacted at all by the hostile environment. I expect all 3 to play well. Same for Quinn.

jv001
01-04-2014, 07:59 AM
Warmup games over indeed. I am always anxious to watch the first road game, as well as the first few road games, to see how that particular Duke team plays on the road in hostile environments. The Battier teams set the bar incredibly high in this category. Over the years, some Duke teams embrace the environment and take great pride in winning at the opponent's gym, which led to those teams having a high winning % on the road. Other Duke teams have played tentative and nervous, with the "Deer in the Headlights" look, which led to those teams struggling on the road. What kind of road team will the 2013/14 Duke team (Fast and Furious) be? We start learning as of today.

I am looking for a win as well, but we have youngster's playing key roles that will get their feet wet for the first time today. How will they respond? Like Kedsy mentioned in other threads, if the guys show any weakness or tentativeness today, K will not hesitate to play Tyler and Josh heavy minutes, and Andre as well if he is fairing well on defense.

I would expect that all 3 of the Senior's will not be impacted at all by the hostile environment. I expect all 3 to play well. Same for Quinn.

I think Quinn will play well. His defense has been good but his shot has been off for a few games. I look for him to shoot better today and play good defense against the ND point guard. I would like to see Marshall have a good game against a tall front line. If he can play well in ACC play, we're a much better team. He and Amile are so important in Duke being an elite team vs. just being a good team. GoDuke!

Philadukie
01-04-2014, 08:30 AM
Anyone know if any of the other CBS national channels (tbs, TNT, etc) will show the game if the 2:00 pm game goes over (which is likely)?

sagegrouse
01-04-2014, 08:35 AM
Anyone know if any of the other CBS national channels (tbs, TNT, etc) will show the game if the 2:00 pm game goes over (which is likely)?

Perhaps CBS Sports Network, which is Ch. 221 on DirecTV. TBS and other properties you listed are owned by Time Warner IIRC (and there is always a first time).

Kedsy
01-04-2014, 09:51 AM
Warmup games over indeed. I am always anxious to watch the first road game, as well as the first few road games, to see how that particular Duke team plays on the road in hostile environments. The Battier teams set the bar incredibly high in this category. Over the years, some Duke teams embrace the environment and take great pride in winning at the opponent's gym, which led to those teams having a high winning % on the road. Other Duke teams have played tentative and nervous, with the "Deer in the Headlights" look, which led to those teams struggling on the road. What kind of road team will the 2013/14 Duke team (Fast and Furious) be? We start learning as of today.

Ironically, the Duke team with the best road record over the last five years was the much maligned 2012 team, that went 8-2 in opponents' gyms. The worst road record over the past five years was the national champion 2010 team (5-5 on the road).

MCFinARL
01-04-2014, 10:44 AM
Ironically, the Duke team with the best road record over the last five years was the much maligned 2012 team, that went 8-2 in opponents' gyms. The worst road record over the past five years was the national champion 2010 team (5-5 on the road).

That is particularly interesting given that the 2010 team had to play both its regional final and its national final as, essentially, road games, even though they were not true road games.

DevilFalcon
01-04-2014, 11:34 AM
I don't think this will be close. I'm feeling major showing coming up. We have been getting better and better. And there is the added motivation of Coach K's brother. Duke will dominate.

azzefkram
01-04-2014, 12:02 PM
Always happy when the games get back on a more regular schedule. Let play a good game and get the ACC season started on the right foot. I expect the rotation to tighten up going forward but hopefully Matt and Marshall can continue to get some burn. Marshall seems to have made some good strides recently and Matt is definitely further along that I expected,

77devil
01-04-2014, 12:08 PM
I don't think this will be close. I'm feeling major showing coming up. We have been getting better and better. And there is the added motivation of Coach K's brother. Duke will dominate.

The current line is -3.5. You still have time to bet your sentiment. Duke has the potential to decisively beat Notre Dame, and likely would in the friendly environs of CIS. I'd like to see us get off to a fast start and take some of the energy out of the Joyce Center.

budwom
01-04-2014, 12:09 PM
Occasionally there are games when we just don't shoot well. If that happens today, it'll be a battle. (but perhaps an opportunity for
Amile on the offensive glass).

Troublemaker
01-04-2014, 12:16 PM
The current line is -3.5. You still have time to bet your sentiment. Duke has the potential to decisively beat Notre Dame, and likely would in the friendly environs of CIS. I'd like to see us get off to a fast start and take some of the energy out of the Joyce Center.

I'm seeing 5.5 as the line at most of the books. It's a huge line. Probably would've been Duke -1 without the Jerian Grant suspension. I think Duke can cover it, but just a win would be great.

Notre Dame has had 6 days to prepare for this game. There'll be some new wrinkles that we haven't seen on tape yet, especially since they've only played 1 game without Grant.

subzero02
01-04-2014, 12:38 PM
I see us as 6 point favorites at a few sites... Hopefully we can wear them down with our superior depth... Dawkins, no need to stop shooting lights out now.

luburch
01-04-2014, 01:40 PM
The Joyce Center doesn't open it's doors until an hour before tip off. Isn't that a little late?

77devil
01-04-2014, 01:41 PM
I'm seeing 5.5 as the line at most of the books. It's a huge line. Probably would've been Duke -1 without the Jerian Grant suspension. I think Duke can cover it, but just a win would be great.

Notre Dame has had 6 days to prepare for this game. There'll be some new wrinkles that we haven't seen on tape yet, especially since they've only played 1 game without Grant.

That's what I'm seeing too after checking more sites. The -3.5 must have been out of date or an outlier. As an aside, Clark Kellogg has been booted off the CBS A team, and he won't be in the studio today either. Woo Hoo.

Duvall
01-04-2014, 01:42 PM
The Joyce Center doesn't open it's doors until an hour before tip off. Isn't that a little late?

Same as Cameron for non-students.

riverside6
01-04-2014, 02:58 PM
Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Notre Dame, starters posted...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=20029

Mabdul Doobakus
01-04-2014, 03:13 PM
So far we've had an intro to the intro to the intro to this game. They are still planning on playing some time soon, right?

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 03:13 PM
That's what I'm seeing too after checking more sites. The -3.5 must have been out of date or an outlier. As an aside, Clark Kellogg has been booted off the CBS A team, and he won't be in the studio today either. Woo Hoo.

Didn't he do Indiana-Mich St? That was probably the A game. We get Greg Anthony.

arnie
01-04-2014, 03:14 PM
So far we've had an intro to the intro to the intro to this game. They are still planning on playing some time soon, right?

4:15 maybe??

Furniture
01-04-2014, 03:23 PM
A little rusty in some parts but I'm liking it so far...

ncexnyc
01-04-2014, 03:27 PM
A little rusty in some parts but I'm liking it so far...

Since I'm at work and following on Game Tracker, what is it that you like? I'm seeing 4 Layups accounting for all ND baskets.

jipops
01-04-2014, 03:33 PM
Defense still appears to be an issue. ND scoring on high percentage shots.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 03:34 PM
Since I'm at work and following on Game Tracker, what is it that you like? I'm seeing 4 Layups accounting for all ND baskets.

Duke is giving up too much in the paint but ND is passing it really well. Jabari is off and most of Duke's scoring is from the outside.

ncexnyc
01-04-2014, 03:40 PM
It would appear this is the tempo we feared. The game looks like a very sluggish one.

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 03:40 PM
Refs letting TONS of contact go in the painted area thus far. I think it's been even but given that Duke has been driving more lately, it's certainly not helping us here.

NYBri
01-04-2014, 03:40 PM
Don't like the feel of this game.

They are dictating tempo and soon the crowd will be a factor if we can't get some stops. The longer they control the game, the more they believe they can win it.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 03:42 PM
Defense still appears to be an issue. ND scoring on high percentage shots.

They are using the clock and passing the ball. Duke cannot turn them over and so ND is getting pretty much what they want. Couple that with Jabari not doing much and the game is very tight.

Furniture
01-04-2014, 03:50 PM
Several players seem a little under par, it's probably understandable being the first big road game. I have a feeling it's going to click soon and we'll get a run and pull away...

DesertDevil
01-04-2014, 03:50 PM
Looks like Cook is going to have to be the offense for a while. He's on & everyone else is struggling.

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 03:50 PM
Clearly, the 3 has been the equalizer here because ND has almost doubled us up on the boards and is shooting nearly 50% overall to our 40%. I hope we can settle down, play better D and get Jabari out of his offensive funk. He seems to be forcing it a bit to me thus far. Wouldn't mind seeing what MP3 can do, too against this big front line.

ncexnyc
01-04-2014, 03:50 PM
The rebounding gap is starting to widen.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 03:55 PM
Making Duke look silly at times.

NashvilleDevil
01-04-2014, 03:56 PM
Duke missing a lot of close shots.

DesertDevil
01-04-2014, 03:57 PM
Pretty poor defensive effort all the way around. Poor perimeter defense, no pressure on the entry pass to the post & no effective help side D when the entry pass is made.

Gonna need to step up in the second half.

CLW
01-04-2014, 03:57 PM
Soft defense is back

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 03:57 PM
Making Duke look silly at times.

True, but, given how we've played, I'm pretty happy with the score right now. No one in foul trouble, Jabari is off and we're getting killed on the boards. If we can keep it to 3-5 point margin at half, I'll be ok with that.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 03:59 PM
Soft defense is back
Not soft- just confused. Not communicating- losing guys

jipops
01-04-2014, 04:00 PM
Must end the half well

Furniture
01-04-2014, 04:01 PM
Very well done Dr.Hood!

DesertDevil
01-04-2014, 04:02 PM
True, but, given how we've played, I'm pretty happy with the score right now. No one in foul trouble, Jabari is off and we're getting killed on the boards. If we can keep it to 3-5 point margin at half, I'll be ok with that.

Agree Chris. Hood hitting the late 3's is big. Even if they'd been down 1 or 2, that would have been alright.

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 04:02 PM
True, but, given how we've played, I'm pretty happy with the score right now. No one in foul trouble, Jabari is off and we're getting killed on the boards. If we can keep it to 3-5 point margin at half, I'll be ok with that.

Or we could be up 2. Either way works for me :D

DukeDevil
01-04-2014, 04:02 PM
On a good note, great defense on that last possession by Notre Dame and we're up at the half despite a very mediocre half of play on our part

jwillfan
01-04-2014, 04:02 PM
Did. 6-0 run. Adjustments will be made at the half.

NashvilleDevil
01-04-2014, 04:03 PM
Pretty bad half shooting the ball and Duke is up two. I think all of us will take that.

CDu
01-04-2014, 04:04 PM
Well, so far it has been a bit ugly:

- refs REALLY letting them play inside. Guys are getting absolutely mugged around the basket (both teams) without calls.

- Parker is really struggling and forcing things a bit

- Thank goodness for Cook and Hood (21 pts, 5 reb, 5 ast for the duo)

Philadukie
01-04-2014, 04:07 PM
3's covering up lots of sins. ND was at 1.35ppp with about 4 minutes left. Ugly.

Furniture
01-04-2014, 04:07 PM
Well, Arizona and Syracuse both got challenged today. It can happen to anyone. First day nerves...Jabari just has to be better in the second half..

DesertDevil
01-04-2014, 04:08 PM
Pretty clean game from the turnover standpoint. 5 total between the 2 teams.

snowdenscold
01-04-2014, 04:08 PM
I'm a little distracted by trying to entertain a baby while watching the game, but did I see Josh actually hit an 18 foot jumper ??

CLW
01-04-2014, 04:09 PM
-8 on the glass

Shermann is just backing down every big we have (Plumlee, Jefferson, Hairston, Paker) with ease. Thankfully, he doesn't have much touch or he'd have about 30 points by now.

NashvilleDevil
01-04-2014, 04:10 PM
I'm a little distracted by trying to entertain a baby while watching the game, but did I see Josh actually hit an 18 foot jumper ??

I was as shocked as you

DesertDevil
01-04-2014, 04:10 PM
I'm a little distracted by trying to entertain a baby while watching the game, but did I see Josh actually hit an 18 foot jumper ??

He did, despite my "NO NO NO" as he shot it. :D

arnie
01-04-2014, 04:11 PM
3's covering up lots of sins. ND was at 1.35ppp with about 4 minutes left. Ugly.

Think that's gonna be the case against most good teams. Out scoring teams that zone us will be tough unless we're lights out.

Furniture
01-04-2014, 04:15 PM
Andre, Sheed and Parker are all having an out of sorts game. You have to believe that they will play better in the second half...

Troublemaker
01-04-2014, 04:18 PM
On the bright side, besides Rodney's play, 9-man rotation so far in a conference road game. This Marshall thing might be real.

That said, Coach K will probably ride the Big 3 hard in the second half.

Duke was effective going small in the latter stages of the 1st half. Will it be a lot more of that in the 2nd?

jwillfan
01-04-2014, 04:18 PM
Andre, Sheed and Parker are all having an out of sorts game. You have to believe that they will play better in the second half...

I believe!

Philadukie
01-04-2014, 04:19 PM
Think that's gonna be the case against most good teams. Out scoring teams that zone us will be tough unless we're lights out.

I hear you, but I was commenting more on the defense. The only reason ND only has 35 at the half is because they've done a terrific job of controlling tempo and the number of possessions. 1.35ppp is getting into Vermont territory.

jipops
01-04-2014, 04:22 PM
Just getting abused in the paint. The 3's have to rain down, might be only chance we have.

mapei
01-04-2014, 04:24 PM
Huge white guys. It's like playing Wisconsin.

DesertDevil
01-04-2014, 04:27 PM
Much better D to start the half.

The one big dude for ND looks Amish.

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 04:27 PM
Wow, LOTS of whistles so far this half. Very different from the 1st.

mapei
01-04-2014, 04:27 PM
Nice run!

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 04:29 PM
Amile simply must work on his FT's. If he could just get up around 75%, that would be huge for us.

jipops
01-04-2014, 04:29 PM
Interesting the offense and defense has flowed better with Jabari on the bench

CDu
01-04-2014, 04:29 PM
-8 on the glass

Shermann is just backing down every big we have (Plumlee, Jefferson, Hairston, Paker) with ease. Thankfully, he doesn't have much touch or he'd have about 30 points by now.

Yup. Lots of point-blank misses by Sherman and others inside for Notre Dame. Good thing they aren't a very good team, or we might be in real trouble.

Nice to see Cook step up so far in the second half. 9-point cushion now.

mapei
01-04-2014, 04:30 PM
Yeah, what's up with Jabari today/

Troublemaker
01-04-2014, 04:30 PM
Small lineup continues to be effective so far.

Won't work every game but appears to be working this game.

pfrduke
01-04-2014, 04:32 PM
Small lineup continues to be effective so far.

Won't work every game but appears to be working this game.

The beauty of effective depth - we can press a lot of different buttons depending on what's working in a particular game.

DesertDevil
01-04-2014, 04:36 PM
Quinn has reallly shot the ball well today. Gonna need that.

Philadukie
01-04-2014, 04:40 PM
Our defense is just awful with Jabari in. It kills me to say that.

Philadukie
01-04-2014, 04:42 PM
Need to go back to the small line-up that was working on D and built the lead. Just not working for Parker today.

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 04:47 PM
Ugh, 4th on Dawkins with 9 to go... :( Need to see if we can withstand this ND run on the road. I have a feeling that Parker is not done just yet, too.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 04:48 PM
Need to go back to the small line-up that was working on D and built the lead. Just not working for Parker today.

10-0 run

jwillfan
01-04-2014, 04:49 PM
Ugh is right. Cook not making good decisions.

CDu
01-04-2014, 04:49 PM
Our defense is just awful with Jabari in. It kills me to say that.

Our defense has been awful with or without Parker in the lineup. He's been sitting for a while, and while he's been out ND has made a run.

CDu
01-04-2014, 04:50 PM
Need to go back to the small line-up that was working on D and built the lead. Just not working for Parker today.

We've been playing small ball for the majority of the second half. Parker, Hairston, and Plumlee have sat a LOT in the second half, leaving Jefferson and Hood as the only forwards.

Furniture
01-04-2014, 04:50 PM
Our defense has been awful with or without Parker in the lineup. He's been sitting for a while, and while he's been out ND has made a run.

Yes. Now he's back and needs to get mad!

jwillfan
01-04-2014, 04:51 PM
Offense out of sync too - too much 1-on-1, little or no passing, forcing shots. Good timeout.

gurufrisbee
01-04-2014, 04:51 PM
It's only tied. If we pull this out we can go back to pretending that our lack of rebounding and interior defense are still not problems.

jipops
01-04-2014, 04:52 PM
Game is not encouraging at all. ACC sched is going to be rough

arnie
01-04-2014, 04:53 PM
Need to go back to the small line-up that was working on D and built the lead. Just not working for Parker today.

Trying to view this game from a neutral standpoint - admittedly hard to so. I think our expectations were too high. Too many missing parts (effective size) to dominate solid teams. Don't see us winning ACC or finishing in top 10 but still a good team.

Philadukie
01-04-2014, 04:53 PM
We have a tough dilemma. It's becoming apparent that our two best offensive players (Hood and Parker) are our two worst defensive players. Both of them get lost on switches, make bad rotations/anticipations, and just generally have bad positioning. Just have to play through it and hope it improves, I guess.

jipops
01-04-2014, 04:55 PM
Defense will clearly not win this. We have to hit 3's

Philadukie
01-04-2014, 04:56 PM
Our FT defense has been solid today though.

CDu
01-04-2014, 04:59 PM
There is a reasonably good chance that our top-10 streak will end this week. We're going to have to really turn things around soon to avoid it.

Mabdul Doobakus
01-04-2014, 05:00 PM
This could be the end of the top 10 streak.

CLW
01-04-2014, 05:00 PM
This team is just SOFT. Up 10 and instead of putting the foot on the proverbial throat they let Notre Dame come all the way back and blow them out of the gym. Sad defensive effort for about 3/4 of this game.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 05:00 PM
Game is not encouraging at all. ACC sched is going to be rough

Very bad start for sure. Team has a lot of work to do. Have not handled pressure games well.

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 05:01 PM
Parker just getting burned terribly on D and now we've gone cold from 3 so...not looking good here. Can't believe we were up 60-50. At one point, ND had outscored us 14-2 with the 2 coming from a couple FT's by Parker.

Cook has played a really good game today but that quick, long, contested 3 when ND had just taken the lead on the big dunk was just dumb, dumb, dumb. Was hoping I wouldn't see a bone-headed play from him today but, I guess not.

jipops
01-04-2014, 05:01 PM
Getting beat up by a team that may barely make the NIT.

Dukehky
01-04-2014, 05:02 PM
Normally Jabari's offensive prowess makes up for his horrid defense, but not today.


I just don't know what we can do to make this defense better. Also, Mike Brey did an incredible job.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 05:03 PM
Getting beat up by a team that may barely make the NIT.

Only because they will not play this hard every game

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 05:05 PM
Ok, Quinn made up for the quick three with a beautiful spin and layup!

gurufrisbee
01-04-2014, 05:07 PM
We haven't done it for 38 and a half minutes, but if we play the last 90 seconds with rebounding and interior defense that would be really nice.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 05:07 PM
Our defense has been awful with or without Parker in the lineup. He's been sitting for a while, and while he's been out ND has made a run.

ND is doing anything they want inside.

Potato Head
01-04-2014, 05:08 PM
This Atkins fellow has a pretty impressive midrange game.

dukelifer
01-04-2014, 05:12 PM
Horrible play

CDu
01-04-2014, 05:13 PM
Well, barring a miracle, I think the top-10 streak is over. Notre Dame just exploited our weaknesses (rebounding and interior defense), and we couldn't overcome it with our offense. Almost, but not quite.

mr. synellinden
01-04-2014, 05:14 PM
The current national player of the year is on the bench.

CLW
01-04-2014, 05:14 PM
Well the Top 10 streak ends. If Notre Dame had shot their normal free throw % it would have been a BLOW OUT. sad effort on D. they are what they are and an early exit in March is forthcoming.

ChrisP
01-04-2014, 05:14 PM
That was an awfully quick 1.7 seconds...just sayin'

CDu
01-04-2014, 05:15 PM
That was an awfully quick 1.7 seconds...just sayin'

Probably because it was 1.2 seconds.