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Troublemaker
12-12-2013, 10:29 AM
I hadn't seen this posted yet. http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2013/12/11/1301968?sac=fo.sports

A few excerpts:



Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski has said repeatedly that Plumlee could have been the team's sixth man last season, and now he's finally healthy enough to play important minutes.

"It's hard not to get frustrated sometimes, but it's been a process," Plumlee said. "I'm still getting back to being as athletic as I'm capable of being."


Wojciechowski said this week during an appearance on Duke's radio show that Plumlee needs to defend, rebound, protect the rim and be an opportunistic scorer to help the Blue Devils. A series of strong practices contributed to why he was the second reserve off the bench against Michigan.


"In order for us to reach our potential," Wojciechowski said, "we need him to build on the game that he had against Michigan."

superdave
12-12-2013, 10:33 AM
I hadn't seen this posted yet. http://www.fayobserver.com/articles/2013/12/11/1301968?sac=fo.sports

A few excerpts:

From what I saw against Michigan, Marshall can be an important role player for us this season. He brought energy and pushed Michigan players out of their comfort zone on the defensive end. I do not think they had prepared for him. I do not think he will get more than one to two runs per game, but that is good enough for now. Hopefully Marshall builds on top of the Michigan game and has a consistent, defined role this season.

Troublemaker
12-12-2013, 01:46 PM
A few thoughts:


Great to see Grant using his own experience with injuries to help mentor Marshall through his recovery. The Duke Family strikes again.
An excellent idea by Marshall and/or the coaches (probably both) to have him study how his brothers are performing their NBA jobs. Coincidentally, the roles his brothers are playing in the NBA this season are very similar to the role we hope Marshall can play for Duke this season.
Feeling good about Marshall. He played his best game at Duke against Michigan. He's gradually recovering his athleticism. He's learning how to calm down on the court. I can definitely envision him becoming a 15mpg asset off the bench this season.
Re: Marshall saying he is recovering his athleticism. It is looking like the coaches were not lying about Marshall's surgery setting him back this offseason. Odds are, Coach K was NOT trying to troll internet fans when he didn't play Marshall in games earlier this season. He was likely looking out for Marshall's best interests instead.
Similarly, Wojo's quote - "In order for us to reach our potential, we need him to build on the game that he had against Michigan" - is an indication that the coaches might have a long-term plan for Marshall and stuff. It's possible they know what they're doing in this one case, and internet fans are not smarter than them.
Similarly, it seems good practice performance can lead to playing time in the rotation. Who'd a thunk?

superdave
12-12-2013, 01:58 PM
He's learning how to calm down on the court.

Vs. Michigan, Marshall sprinted down the court on offense and was concentrating so much on running hard that he forget where he was and ran all the way to the baseline rather than the block. It was kinda funny. I expect that the running hard thing will become an afterthought, and the location/proximity thing will come into better focus.

CDu
12-12-2013, 02:26 PM
Feeling good about Marshall. He played his best game at Duke against Michigan. He's gradually recovering his athleticism. He's learning how to calm down on the court. I can definitely envision him becoming a 15mpg asset off the bench this season.

I'm not yet ready to say 15mpg asset, but I do think he could keep expanding his role. Even if he's a 10-12mpg asset, that's a big difference in the team. If he's a 15mpg asset, even better.

And "calming down" definitely seems necessary. It all sort of swings back to "the game slowing down" for Plumlee. Right now, it seems that one of his best attributes (enthusiasm/energy/hustle) is actually working against him. If he can learn to channel that effort while playing under control, he might have something.


Re: Marshall saying he is recovering his athleticism. It is looking like the coaches were not lying about Marshall's surgery setting him back this offseason.

Yes, I do think that many folks underestimated how big of an impact the offseason surgery would have on Plumlee's development/readiness. While others were getting themselves stronger and in better shape and working on their games, Plumlee was recovering from surgery. Not only did he lose out on development time, he regressed physically (as one would expect following surgery).


Similarly, Wojo's quote - "In order for us to reach our potential, we need him to build on the game that he had against Michigan" - is an indication that the coaches might have a long-term plan for Marshall and stuff. It's possible they know what they're doing in this one case, and internet fans are not smarter than them.

Yes, I'm sure that the staff knows what they're doing. I'm not sure whether this is "coachspeak" or not though. The proof will be in the pudding. If Plumlee's role keeps expanding over time, then it would suggest that a plan was in place. If Plumlee goes back to being a mop-up guy, then can we be sure whether this statement had any merit?

Here's hoping that Plumlee continues to progress. If he can be a solid backup big, we change dramatically. If he can add even more than that, we change REALLY dramatically. But I'd settle for him being a useful backup big this year.

Troublemaker
12-12-2013, 03:30 PM
Yes, I'm sure that the staff knows what they're doing. I'm not sure whether this is "coachspeak" or not though. The proof will be in the pudding. If Plumlee's role keeps expanding over time, then it would suggest that a plan was in place. If Plumlee goes back to being a mop-up guy, then can we be sure whether this statement had any merit?


Forget Wojo's quote then. With or without a quote suggesting it to be true, why wouldn't the coaches have a long-range plan in place for Marshall, and every other Duke player for that matter? Sometimes things will go according to plan, and sometimes not, but the plan is going to exist, right?

And yes, I believe the plan for Marshall this season is to gradually expand his minutes until he's a consistent rotation big, 15mpg, maybe more. I'm hoping for no more health setbacks (Zoubek's Fr thru Jr years, Part II, otherwise) and for Marshall to improve the things that have been mentioned. Play with calm, and good things will happen for him and for Duke.



Here's hoping that Plumlee continues to progress. If he can be a solid backup big, we change dramatically. If he can add even more than that, we change REALLY dramatically. But I'd settle for him being a useful backup big this year.

Indeed, here's hoping as well.

greybeard
12-12-2013, 09:27 PM
"In order for us to reach our potential," Wojciechowski said. Interesting, I seem to recall someone on this very Board having said this repeatedly beginning with after having seen him play a few minutes near the close of last season. In fact, if you substitute "Duke" for "us" and "its" for "our" I one might think that WoJo was quoting the guy, now wouldn't we. Just saying . . . .

CDu
12-12-2013, 10:13 PM
"In order for us to reach our potential," Wojciechowski said. Interesting, I seem to recall someone on this very Board having said this repeatedly beginning with after having seen him play a few minutes near the close of last season. In fact, if you substitute "Duke" for "us" and "its" for "our" I one might think that WoJo was quoting the guy, now wouldn't we. Just saying . . . .

On this topic we are in complete agreement.

kAzE
12-13-2013, 12:17 PM
I've been saying forever the kid needs to just calm down a little bit. For guys like him, it's all about trying hard, but not trying TOO hard.

I find it a little ridiculous that Strelow writes "Plumlee likely has a lower ceiling than his brothers." He's been sidelined by a pretty serious injury, so that's unfair. He's obviously not where his brothers were at this point in their Duke careers, but that has nothing to do with his ceiling. I think he has the potential to be as good as Miles, although he needs to hit the weights a bit harder to get on his level physically. I'm extremely optimistic about MP3 as an important part of the rotation for the next 2 years. If he stays healthy, he could come close to being a double double guy as a senior and I think he'll definitely be on a NBA roster someday, for his size and athleticism alone.

This year is still up in the air, but the quicker he gets there, the better off the team will be. We just need him to play 5-10 good minutes a game this year. If he could come in and be annoying on defense, grab a couple boards, maybe stick in an easy dunk here or there, I'd be pretty happy with that.

Kedsy
12-13-2013, 01:09 PM
I've been saying forever the kid needs to just calm down a little bit. For guys like him, it's all about trying hard, but not trying TOO hard.

I find it a little ridiculous that Strelow writes "Plumlee likely has a lower ceiling than his brothers." He's been sidelined by a pretty serious injury, so that's unfair. He's obviously not where his brothers were at this point in their Duke careers, but that has nothing to do with his ceiling. I think he has the potential to be as good as Miles, although he needs to hit the weights a bit harder to get on his level physically. I'm extremely optimistic about MP3 as an important part of the rotation for the next 2 years. If he stays healthy, he could come close to being a double double guy as a senior and I think he'll definitely be on a NBA roster someday, for his size and athleticism alone.

This year is still up in the air, but the quicker he gets there, the better off the team will be. We just need him to play 5-10 good minutes a game this year. If he could come in and be annoying on defense, grab a couple boards, maybe stick in an easy dunk here or there, I'd be pretty happy with that.

Totally agree with this. Including the part about Marshall having a good chance to make an NBA roster. If Marty Nessley, who couldn't even break 150 minutes per season his first three years at Duke (and only played 11 mpg his senior year), can make an NBA roster (and he did, albeit for one season only), then Marshall certainly can. He has the size and enough athleticism to impress at the combine.

slower
12-13-2013, 01:32 PM
FWIW, one of my friends who works on campus says that Marshall is still wearing a boot around campus every time she sees him.

CDu
12-13-2013, 03:16 PM
I've been saying forever the kid needs to just calm down a little bit. For guys like him, it's all about trying hard, but not trying TOO hard.

I find it a little ridiculous that Strelow writes "Plumlee likely has a lower ceiling than his brothers." He's been sidelined by a pretty serious injury, so that's unfair. He's obviously not where his brothers were at this point in their Duke careers, but that has nothing to do with his ceiling. I think he has the potential to be as good as Miles, although he needs to hit the weights a bit harder to get on his level physically. I'm extremely optimistic about MP3 as an important part of the rotation for the next 2 years. If he stays healthy, he could come close to being a double double guy as a senior and I think he'll definitely be on a NBA roster someday, for his size and athleticism alone.

This year is still up in the air, but the quicker he gets there, the better off the team will be. We just need him to play 5-10 good minutes a game this year. If he could come in and be annoying on defense, grab a couple boards, maybe stick in an easy dunk here or there, I'd be pretty happy with that.

I think the "ceiling" comment has more to do with the fact that Marshall is the least athletic of the three, and it appears to be by a substantial margin.

Miles is a freak athlete for a guy 6'9"-6'10". His vertical is off the charts. That's what got him drafted.

Mason is not quite in Miles' category athletically, but he got really strong and improved his skill level dramatically each year to the point of being a go-to guy as a senior. And he's still a better leaper than Marshall.

Marshall is the tallest, but he is less athletically gifted than either of his brothers. He also appears to have a bit of a T-Rex problem in that his arms are pretty short for a guy his height.

All of this is not to say that Marshall lacks for potential. You can't teach height, and he's still athletic enough given that height. And he is highly energetic and works hard, so there's a good chance he continues to improve. But I can certainly understand the argument that his ceiling is a bit lower than his brothers.

Indoor66
12-13-2013, 03:55 PM
I think the "ceiling" comment has more to do with the fact that Marshall is the least athletic of the three, and it appears to be by a substantial margin.

Miles is a freak athlete for a guy 6'9"-6'10". His vertical is off the charts. That's what got him drafted.

Mason is not quite in Miles' category athletically, but he got really strong and improved his skill level dramatically each year to the point of being a go-to guy as a senior. And he's still a better leaper than Marshall.

Marshall is the tallest, but he is less athletically gifted than either of his brothers. He also appears to have a bit of a T-Rex problem in that his arms are pretty short for a guy his height.

All of this is not to say that Marshall lacks for potential. You can't teach height, and he's still athletic enough given that height. And he is highly energetic and works hard, so there's a good chance he continues to improve. But I can certainly understand the argument that his ceiling is a bit lower than his brothers.

Miles is 6'11", 255 lb. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/miles_plumlee/) and has an incredible vertical.

CDu
12-13-2013, 04:05 PM
Miles is 6'11", 255 lb. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/miles_plumlee/) and has an incredible vertical.

I even short-changed him an inch or so! Yes, that further hammers home my point. His combination of size, agility, speed, and vertical are almost unprecedented (in fact, they may indeed be unprecedented):

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Miles-Plumlee-5261/

For giggles, compare him to this guard who was (until recently) considered an explosive athlete for a guard:

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Derrick-Rose-1068/

Troublemaker
12-13-2013, 09:05 PM
Another (somewhat long) thought about Marshall. (Gosh, I hope I don't jinx him with this thread.)

He'll be a nice option to have against zone defenses.

I thought Amile was sort of swallowed up by the mid-major zone defenses of Asheville, ECU, and Vermont. In those 3 consecutive games against mid-majors, he scored 3, 6, and 2 points, respectively. He then proceeded to not score against the high majors as well (in contrast to his Kansas game), but based on recent comments from Coach K, I think right now Amile is supposed to be focusing on defense and rebounding without worrying about his scoring just yet. The entire team's mandate right now is to improve defensively. And as that continues to happen and more games are played, I think Amile will get a chance to become an offensive weapon again versus man-2-man defenses. BUT, I'm worried about him versus zone.

Here's why. Amile's offensive game is very penetration-based. Either he himself will faceup and take the center guarding him off the dribble for layups and fouls, or his teammates will penetrate and dump to him for layup attempts around the rim because he is crafty inside and has nice catching hands. Both of those scoring methods are much tougher to accomplish against zone because penetration tends to be thwarted by zone. That's why even mid-major zones were able to shut him down. His teammates couldn't find him inside the zone, and he couldn't penetrate himself. Additionally, while Amile's got very good quickness, he's not a leaper that can reliably go over the top of the zone for lobs.

Enter MP3. All of a sudden you have a bigger receiving target roaming the backline of the zone, easier to find through the picket fence of defender bodies and arms. Also, if an opportunity present itself for a lob, Marshall's height and leaping ability allow him to be a good -ooper for the alley-er. Marshall should also be able to use his size to punish zones on the offensive glass better than Amile. A lot of this is theory that needs to be proven on the court, of course (especially whether Marshall's hands are reliable or not), but I think Marshall can potentially serve as a good option to go to against zone defenses.

For now, though, I'm still just hoping for him to stay healthy and play calmly. Baby steps.

greybeard
12-14-2013, 12:19 AM
1. A guy with Plulee's size, basketball skills, and hands, should his foot not bother him, who is used to score the ball in addition to rebounding just like everyone else and block a few shoots will define how high/far Duke can go--he lifts the ceiling, if the team plays to his strengths. It sounds that Duke is prepared to do that. They are already playing a high low, inside-guy-on-the-move style that suits Plumlee. In a high low, or double post set, with Parker having the freedom to roam where he wants, Plumlee demands the biggest guy on the other team's attention on the off side, even if he doen't move a step. If he moves, and you try to double Parker, Plumlee is left one on one. You front him he stays baseline and the pass comes high, you guard the baseline and he comes center. It doesn't take much for him to be a force that makes Parker and hood much more dangerous, gives Cook an ever ready bailout on drives and often a very good option. Any of these crenaries and others play out three times a game and he gets a put back and a draws a fould or two, many combinations of these things, more potent scoring on easy stuff than most teams have and diffuse considerably the size of really good bigs Duke faces. A healthy Plumlee defines how far Duke can go. He will not effect how low, only how high.

indy1duke
12-14-2013, 07:35 AM
Thanks to CDu for the interesting stats on Miles Plumlee. For those who have not seen Miles block of Cousins dunk. It is fabulous. Cousins later gets escorted to the bench following a technical. It could not happen to a nicer guy. It is on You Tube, but I don't have the link.

Question about Marshall -- everyone says he has short arms but I have never seen his measurements or anything similar to what was on Draft Express for Miles. Does anyone have those stats?

BD80
12-14-2013, 07:48 AM
Could Marshall's progress have hastened Alex's departure? If Marshall seems to be on the verge of becoming a significant part of the rotation, that might have influenced Alex's thoughts. The negative of Alex leaving could be a sign of a positive with respect to Marshall.

sagegrouse
12-14-2013, 08:17 AM
Mason is not quite in Miles' category athletically, but he got really strong and improved his skill level dramatically each year to the point of being a go-to guy as a senior. And he's still a better leaper than Marshall.



Maybe. If you are measuring performance in a decathlon. Mason was a skilled basketball player when he was 15 YO. A combination of coordination -- which is part of being athletic -- and being able to play instinctively was a big part of it. I.e., he "got it" at a young age. Miles is "getting it" at age 25.

OldPhiKap
12-14-2013, 08:26 AM
Miles is 6'11", 255 lb. (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/miles_plumlee/) and has an incredible vertical.

And his hair is perfect.