2013 B1G/ACC Challenge

[CameronDuke]

I realize the ACC currently has 15 men's basketball teams and the B1G has 12. Logically, 3 ACC teams would get squeezed from the Challenge. Why Wake, VT, and Clemson though?

Next year with the addition of Rutgers and Maryland to the B1G, does the Challenge feature all 14 teams in each conference (14 games)?

[Bluedog]

I realize the ACC currently has 15 men's basketball teams and the B1G has 12. Logically, 3 ACC teams would get squeezed from the Challenge. Why Wake, VT, and Clemson though?

Next year with the addition of Rutgers and Maryland to the B1G, does the Challenge feature all 14 teams in each conference (14 games)?

Wake, VT, and Clemson are excluded because they finished at the bottom of the ACC standings last season. I would imagine that next year they'll add two more games; the ACC will still have one more team than the B1G (with the addition of Louisville), so the last place finisher in the ACC this season will be left out next year.

[CameronDuke]

Makes sense. Forgot about Louisville next year.

[johnb]

How do they pick the ACC/BIG match-ups? I assume it's roughly top teams vs top teams on down (with the bottom ACC teams going unmatched), but there must be some leeway given that Duke and Michigan State were the preseason highest ranked teams.

Sorry if I missed this, but a quick search online found nothing.

[flyingdutchdevil]

How do they pick the ACC/BIG match-ups? I assume it's roughly top teams vs top teams on down (with the bottom ACC teams going unmatched), but there must be some leeway given that Duke and Michigan State were the preseason highest ranked teams.

Sorry if I missed this, but a quick search online found nothing.

Marketing, my friend. Marketing. I'm sure ESPN and their statisticians create games that have the highest total viewership. That's why Duke-MSU doesn't make as much sense as having both of those teams play different opponents. Increases the overall total viewership.

[tbyers11]

How do they pick the ACC/BIG match-ups? I assume it's roughly top teams vs top teams on down (with the bottom ACC teams going unmatched), but there must be some leeway given that Duke and Michigan State were the preseason highest ranked teams.

Sorry if I missed this, but a quick search online found nothing.

Like Flyingdutchdevil said it is mostly about what matchups ESPN wants. Some thought is given to who has played home/road games in recent years and how many times teams have played each other recently, but it is mostly whatever ESPN wants

[CameronDuke]

It has totally slipped my mind but who did Duke play in the 2012 Challenge?

[Kedsy]

It has totally slipped my mind but who did Duke play in the 2012 Challenge?

You mean last year? Ohio State.

[tbyers11]

It has totally slipped my mind but who did Duke play in the 2012 Challenge?

Ohio St at home. We were down big in the first half (around 8 at half) and handily outplayed them in the 2nd half winning 73-68. We forced Craft to shoot and he couldn't hit the broadside of a barn.

[mkirsh]

It has totally slipped my mind but who did Duke play in the 2012 Challenge?

I think we played Ohio State in Columbus in the 2011-2012 season and Ohio State in Cameron last season

[CameronDuke]

That's right. Thanks!

[sagegrouse]

How do they pick the ACC/BIG match-ups? I assume it's roughly top teams vs top teams on down (with the bottom ACC teams going unmatched), but there must be some leeway given that Duke and Michigan State were the preseason highest ranked teams.

Sorry if I missed this, but a quick search online found nothing.

Well, there is one constraint. Teams get home games every other year, which ends up dividing each conference into segments A and B. Each segment will play the corresponding segment year after year. And within the segment, strengths of teams are considered. With changes in confernce membership, there may also be a chance to rewicker the home-and-away segments.

sagegrouse

[snowdenscold]

Well, there is one constraint. Teams get home games every other year, which ends up dividing each conference into segments A and B. Each segment will play the corresponding segment year after year.

Well, it's doesn't always perfectly alternate home and away, since for example we played last year and this year in Cameron. Perhaps it resets after every 2 years, and thus we aren't stuck with a given segment in perpetuity.

If I'm looking right, our schedule has been:

99-00: Illinois (away)
00-01: Illinois (home)
01-02: Iowa (away)
02-03: Michigan (home)
03-04: Michigan State (away)
04-05: Michigan State (home)
05-06: Indiana (away)
06-07: Indiana (home)
07-08: Wisconsin (home)
08-09: Purdue (away)
09-10: Wisconsin (away)
10-11: Michigan State (home)
11-12: Ohio State (away)
12-13: Ohio State (home)
13-14: Michigan (home)

[Olympic Fan]

Our "friends" at IC whine about a lot of stuff -- and most of it is ridiculous (how they never get any calls ... about how the Hairston/McDonald mess is the NCAA's fault ... about how K selfishly brainwashes his stars to pass up the NBA and come back to school, etc.).

But every once in a while, they stumble across a valid complaint.

I believe their whining about the 2013 ACC/Big Ten matchups has some validity.

In 2012, North Carolina had to play Indiana on the road, while Duke got Ohio State at home. Michigan State was on the road and Michigan was at home

Well, the top three Big Ten teams all got expected locations -- Michigan on the road; Ohio State and Michigan State at home.

ESPN, which puts the games together, had some flexibility on the ACC end because Syracuse was a top three team and they haven't played in the Challenge before. They could go home or road without creating an issue. But by all rights, Duke should be on the road and UNC at home. Also based on standings, it should have been Duke at Michigan State and Michigan at UNC (and, I would argue, Syracuse at Ohio State).

Somehow they (1) made UNC go on the road for the second straight year; and (2) play a team rated better in the Big Ten than UNC in the ACC. Duke got to (1) play at home for the second straight year; and (2) got to play a team rated lower in the Big Ten than Duke is in the ACC.

In this single case, I can understand why UNC fans are upset. Looked at in isolation, it appears to be unfair.

In the larger context of the ACC/Big Ten Challenge, UNC will (after tonight) now have played six home games, eight road games and one semi-neutral game (in Greensboro) in the challenge

Last night was Duke's sixth home game. Duke has played five road games and four semi-neutral games (split evenly between Greensboro and Chicago)

[BlueDevil2K]

Well, it's doesn't always perfectly alternate home and away, since for example we played last year and this year in Cameron. Perhaps it resets after every 2 years, and thus we aren't stuck with a given segment in perpetuity.

If I'm looking right, our schedule has been:

99-00: Illinois (away)
00-01: Illinois (home)
01-02: Iowa (away)
02-03: Michigan (home)
03-04: Michigan State (away)
04-05: Michigan State (home)
05-06: Indiana (away)
06-07: Indiana (home)
07-08: Wisconsin (home)
08-09: Purdue (away)
09-10: Wisconsin (away)
10-11: Michigan State (home)
11-12: Ohio State (away)
12-13: Ohio State (home)
13-14: Michigan (home)

2002 was Ohio State (in Greensboro) - the first several home and away games were really "home" (Greensboro (twice?)) and "away" (Chicago (twice?)). All games have been on-campus for the past decade.

[-bdbd]

How do they pick the ACC/BIG match-ups? I assume it's roughly top teams vs top teams on down (with the bottom ACC teams going unmatched), but there must be some leeway given that Duke and Michigan State were the preseason highest ranked teams.

Sorry if I missed this, but a quick search online found nothing.

I believe that ESPN actually picks the pairings. It's all part of the contract they signed with the 2 conferences. As my old Colonel used to say,
"If you take the King's shilling, you do the King's bidding..."

Sure would be nice, just once, for Duke to get a lesser Big10 team, like PSU or Rutgers (in NYC?) or Neb. Sigh, I'm sorta resigned to the idea that ESPN won't be able to resist matching us up with Maryland in the near-future... in College Park... Call out the National Guard!

Anybody know how much longer the current deal goes for the ACC-Big10 series?

And, to answer an earlier Q about rooting for UNC, etc on this string, YES I will root for the ACC to STOMP the Big10 mercilessly, this year especially. But I won't feel very bad if UNC gets smacked. And I think I'll root for BOTH to lose in the OSU-MD match-up....:rolleyes:

[snowdenscold]

2002 was Ohio State (in Greensboro) - the first several home and away games were really "home" (Greensboro (twice?)) and "away" (Chicago (twice?)). All games have been on-campus for the past decade.

Wow, yeah I screwed that up - I glanced very quickly looking for "Durham", or at least "NC", and assumed anything else was the opponent's stadium (and confused the back-to-back OSU/Michigan games in 2002 for which was in the Challenge) . Let me try this again:


99-00: Illinois (away* - Chicago)
00-01: Illinois (home* - G'boro)
01-02: Iowa (away* - Chicago)
02-03: Ohio State (home* - G'boro)
03-04: Michigan State (away)
04-05: Michigan State (home)
05-06: Indiana (away)
06-07: Indiana (home)
07-08: Wisconsin (home)
08-09: Purdue (away)
09-10: Wisconsin (away)
10-11: Michigan State (home)
11-12: Ohio State (away)
12-13: Ohio State (home)
13-14: Michigan (home)

Still, seems to be done in 2-year groupings, with the occasional switching of which order you go in for your "home" vs "away", which as noted, are true home/away games since 2003.

[Duvall]

Our "friends" at IC whine about a lot of stuff -- and most of it is ridiculous (how they never get any calls ... about how the Hairston/McDonald mess is the NCAA's fault ... about how K selfishly brainwashes his stars to pass up the NBA and come back to school, etc.).

But every once in a while, they stumble across a valid complaint.

I believe their whining about the 2013 ACC/Big Ten matchups has some validity.

In 2012, North Carolina had to play Indiana on the road, while Duke got Ohio State at home. Michigan State was on the road and Michigan was at home

Well, the top three Big Ten teams all got expected locations -- Michigan on the road; Ohio State and Michigan State at home.

ESPN, which puts the games together, had some flexibility on the ACC end because Syracuse was a top three team and they haven't played in the Challenge before. They could go home or road without creating an issue. But by all rights, Duke should be on the road and UNC at home. Also based on standings, it should have been Duke at Michigan State and Michigan at UNC (and, I would argue, Syracuse at Ohio State).

Somehow they (1) made UNC go on the road for the second straight year; and (2) play a team rated better in the Big Ten than UNC in the ACC. Duke got to (1) play at home for the second straight year; and (2) got to play a team rated lower in the Big Ten than Duke is in the ACC.

In this single case, I can understand why UNC fans are upset. Looked at in isolation, it appears to be unfair.

Don't give UNC fans too much credit. According to Andy Katz, (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/90429/uncs-unusual-request) UNC *asked* for a road game in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge this year.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Don't give UNC fans too much credit. According to Andy Katz, (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/90429/uncs-unusual-request) UNC *asked* for a road game in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge this year.
And then there was silence on the hee-al...

[Ggallagher]

I know, that's another REALLY easy question, but what I find especially heart warming in watching this game is seeing how very happy Greg Paulus appears to be as he sees tOSU whomp up on Maryland. I think he might still have some strong feelings about Maryland :)

[Merlindevildog91]

I turned on the Wisconsin-UVA game at halftime. It was 25-20 Wisconsin. It is now 37-23, with 10:05 to go. In 9:55, Virginia has scored exactly three points, on one FT and one FG. I know Wisconsin's guys are corn-fed practitioners of zone defense, but ugh.

[Duvall]

Looks like the ACC is set to lose 5-7. It was probably a mistake to close with the league's three weakest teams in the three late Wednesday slot.

[Merlindevildog91]

And in the following two minutes, UVA scores 7. Memo to self: begin to complain every time Duke goes into a slump.

[dukelifer]

And in the following two minutes, UVA scores 7. Memo to self: begin to complain every time Duke goes into a slump.

I thought the new rules were to create offense. 30 points in 34 minutes for UVa- wow.

[pfrduke]

I thought the new rules were to create offense. 30 points in 34 minutes for UVa- wow.

The only rule that could create offense in a Virginia-Wisconsin game is a 10 second shot clock. Not sure that would even be enough.

[devildeac]

I turned on the Wisconsin-UVA game at halftime. It was 25-20 Wisconsin. It is now 37-23, with 10:05 to go. In 9:55, Virginia has scored exactly three points, on one FT and one FG. I know Wisconsin's guys are corn-fed practitioners of zone defense, but ugh.

But you know the 'Hoos will light it up and rough it up if we are scheduled to play there this season:mad:.

[tbyers11]

But you know the 'Hoos will light it up and rough it up if we are scheduled to play there this season:mad:.

Thankfully, we only play UVa in Cameron this year

UVa is not going up strong on any of their interior looks except for Harris. He is going too strong and forcing things.

[Troublemaker]

Pomeroy on the last 3 matchups: 78% Mich St, 59% Purdue, Nebraska 65%

Big 10 would have to sweep to avoid the tie though, and if those odds are true, Big 10 would only have a 30% chance of sweeping.

A shame that UVA couldn't hold serve at home.

[JNort]

How is unc up on Michigan state? They just don't make any sense

[dukelifer]

How is unc up on Michigan state? They just don't make any sense

They have talent - but are inconsistent. They can play with anyone when focused.

[FerryFor50]

Wisconsin beat UVA in a 48-38 barn burner.

Joe Harris goes 1-10. Amazingly, only 31 total fouls were called. I seriously have doubts that there wasn't more to be called between these two handsy teams.

I don't get why they schedule UVA and Wisconsin to play each other. It's GUARANTEED to be a snooze fest.

[-jk]

Wisconsin beat UVA in a 48-38 barn burner.

Joe Harris goes 1-10. Amazingly, only 31 total fouls were called. I seriously have doubts that there wasn't more to be called between these two handsy teams.

I don't get why they schedule UVA and Wisconsin to play each other. It's GUARANTEED to be a snooze fest.

Ya want two snooze fests?

-jk

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Miami apparently shot 8% in the first half tonight. Larranaga has his work cut out for him this year.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

So, is a tie just a tie? Or is this like the Ryder Cup where the defending champion wins in the event of a tie?

[ForkFondler]

Looks like the ACC is set to lose 5-7. It was probably a mistake to close with the league's three weakest teams in the three late Wednesday slot.

We should have given them Maryland a year early -- that would have evened things up.

[juise]

We should have given them Maryland a year early -- that would have evened things up.

Agreed. Final count: B1G 7-6, ACC 6-5. ACC victorious on win%.

[matt1]

Agreed. Final count: B1G 7-6, ACC 6-5. ACC victorious on win%.

The Big Ten game was just a conference game, not part of the challenge. We were 6-5, while they were 5-6. Even counting OSU-MD as a win and a loss for the Big Ten, they would be 6-7.

[buddy]

Just about every game tonight went the wrong way, and were ugly to boot. Give the heels props. And for those who tout Izzo as a great coach--he is now 1-15 against Roy Williams and Coach K. (And unfortunately the "1" is against us.)

[juise]

The Big Ten game was just a conference game, not part of the challenge. We were 6-5, while they were 5-6. Even counting OSU-MD as a win and a loss for the Big Ten, they would be 6-7.

Good point. I like 6-7. The Maryland loss has to count. Don't want them to escape the shame.

[-bdbd]

They have talent - but are inconsistent. They can play with anyone when focused.

Does that sound like a well-coached team to anyone???

[Son of Jarhead]

Looks like Dr. Jekyll showed up tonight in East Lansing instead of Mr. Hyde.

[Olympic Fan]

Wow, I'm just blown away that Izzo's Spartans choked AGAIN against Roy's Tar Heel.

That's 0-7 -- and I don't think any of them were particularly close. UNC whipped MSU 87-71 in the 2005 national semifinals; 81-67 in the NCAA second round in 2007;89-72 in the 2009 national title game; 98-63 in the 2008 ACC/BIG TEN Challenge ... there was also the aircraft carrier game to open the 2011-12 season and last night's game. The closest I can find is an 89-82 UNC win in the 2009 Challenge (and that was the year UNC went to the NIT).

Izzo is almost as bad against K and Duke. He's 1-7 against K ... he lost to Duke in the 1998 Great Eight in Chicago, in the 1999 NCAA semifinals in Tampa; in the 2003 and 2004 challenges (the first one in East Lansing); the 2010 challenge (one of Kyrie's eight great games);in the 2011 Champions Classic in New York (the one where K passed Knight on the win list); and in last year's Sweet 16 in Indianapolis. Izzo's one win came in the 2005 Sweet 16 in Austin , Tex.

Izzo is a great coach with a great postseason record, but he's been owned by K and his teams always roll over and play dead for UNC.

** Interesting note: Izzo and Michigan State were also in the Final Four with Duke in 2001 and 2010, but lost in the opposite semifinals both years and didn't get to play Duke. Pretty sure UNC and MSU were scheduled to meet in the 2006 NCAA Tournament, but both fell victim to George Mason and didn't get to meet.

[jv001]

I thought Jay Bilas mentioned Izzo telling him that he was aware of his record against ole roy. I was not impressed with MSU last night. unc made them look bad. GoDuke!

[Faison1]

With the ACC looking thoroughly mediocre, who has the best conference this year?

I really wish we could start the challenge with another conference. But who consistently puts up winning teams top to bottom now that the Big East is gone?

[Troublemaker]

Izzo's one win came in the 2005 Sweet 16 in Austin , Tex.

For me, that loss by Duke ranks up there as one of our most frustrating NCAAT losses. Duke should've had a very comfortable halftime lead in that game, except we kept carelessly turning the ball over in the first half even while thoroughly outplaying them. That gave MSU life and they played a much better second half. It was kind of like this season's Kansas game times ten, except against KU instead of careless turnovers, it was us shooting FTs way below our season avg.