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Indoor66
12-03-2013, 02:23 PM
Whitney Young, IL (Jahlil Okafor) vs Apple Valley, MN (Tyus Jones) on Thursday, December 12 at 7:00 P.M. Eastern - on ESPN2. Mark your calendar.

wilson
12-03-2013, 02:41 PM
Whitney Young, IL (Jahlil Okafor) vs Apple Valley, MN (Tyus Jones) on Thursday, December 12 at 7:00 P.M. Eastern - on ESPN2. Mark your calendar.Forgive me for thinking this thread was going to be a hypothetical debate about playing time.:rolleyes:

Bluedog
12-03-2013, 02:50 PM
Will be interesting to see, thanks for the note. Whitney Young should be favored in this. In addition to Jahlil, they have Georgetown-bound four-star 6-8 forward Paul White and St. Louis-bound PG Miles Reynolds. Apple Valley certainly is no slouch either, as they're projected to be the top school in Minnesota - they just don't have as many weapons as Whitney Young. 6-9 Sophomore Brock Bertram will likely defend Okafor who is a solid prospect, but still quite young.

MCFinARL
12-03-2013, 03:23 PM
Forgive me for thinking this thread was going to be a hypothetical debate about playing time.:rolleyes:

I know Coach K likes to play the best players, somewhat without regard to position, but if Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones were fighting EACH OTHER for playing time, that would be a mighty peculiar development. :D

Mistamassy
12-03-2013, 03:52 PM
Will be interesting to see, thanks for the note. Whitney Young should be favored in this. In addition to Jahlil, they have Georgetown-bound four-star 6-8 forward Paul White and St. Louis-bound PG Miles Reynolds. Apple Valley certainly is no slouch either, as they're projected to be the top school in Minnesota - they just don't have as many weapons as Whitney Young. 6-9 Sophomore Brock Bertram will likely defend Okafor who is a solid prospect, but still quite young.

I've been to both Apple Valley games this year and Brock Bertram has no chance at defending Okafor. He is clumsy and slow. On the other hand, Tyus has blown up early on and he really seems like he will be a nice complement to Quinn Cook vs. replacing him.

NSDukeFan
12-03-2013, 04:19 PM
I know Coach K likes to play the best players, somewhat without regard to position, but if Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones were fighting EACH OTHER for playing time, that would be a mighty peculiar development. :D

I just hope Jahlil and Tyus both don't play the full game as there are players on both teams who have lots of potential if their coaches would just play them to develop them and I don't want Jahlil and Tyus arriving at Duke with tired legs.

Bluedog
12-03-2013, 04:36 PM
I've been to both Apple Valley games this year and Brock Bertram has no chance at defending Okafor. He is clumsy and slow. On the other hand, Tyus has blown up early on and he really seems like he will be a nice complement to Quinn Cook vs. replacing him.

Ok, good to know - thanks. He just seemed like the only player with height that I've heard about on Apple Valley. Who is likely to defend Okafor? I would think whoever they put on him won't have much of a chance..

MChambers
12-03-2013, 04:54 PM
6-9 Sophomore Brock Bertram will likely defend Okafor who is a solid prospect, but still quite young.
Okafor is more than a solid prospect and not young for a high school player.

I'm assuming you meant "6-9 Sophomore Brock Bertram, who will likely defend Okafor, is a solid prospect, but still quite young.

Sorry. I couldn't help myself!

Bluedog
12-03-2013, 05:26 PM
Okafor is more than a solid prospect and not young for a high school player.

I'm assuming you meant "6-9 Sophomore Brock Bertram, who will likely defend Okafor, is a solid prospect, but still quite young.

Sorry. I couldn't help myself!

Yes, you are correct. I had added the "solid prospect" phrase after the fact and neglected to make the other changes I should have. My apologies! But apparently, that statement was incorrect anyways, so we can just completely throw it out. ;)

1 24 90
12-12-2013, 08:46 AM
Just wanted to bump this up as a reminder of the game tonight. Enjoy

Dr. Rosenrosen
12-12-2013, 07:07 PM
Coach K in the house!

conmanlhughes
12-12-2013, 07:11 PM
So far (all of 6 minutes into the game) Okafor's offense is incredible (even if he used an armbar), the freshman on Apple Valley looks good (see:2017 recruiting thread) and Jones hasn't done a whole lot yet. (I like parentheses)

BD80
12-12-2013, 07:35 PM
Thank God we didn't start a drinking game, every time the announcers mention "Duke:" DRINK!

Duvall
12-12-2013, 07:36 PM
Zone defense is the worst.

Gthoma2a
12-12-2013, 07:36 PM
This game is not looking good. That was scary for Okafor. Tyus can't get anything open.

Henderson
12-12-2013, 07:38 PM
If Ditka had to play against Ditka, who would win?

brevity
12-12-2013, 07:49 PM
If Ditka had to play against Ditka, who would win?

I keep a mini-Ditka in my pocket for just this situation. (And yes, I'm also happy to see you all.) He says, "Shut up, brevity. I'm trying to watch the game."

ETA: no DBR chat?

BD80
12-12-2013, 08:00 PM
Do we open a 2018 recruiting thread for Tyus' brother Trey?

Ichabod Drain
12-12-2013, 09:46 PM
Good game by both Duke players. Tyus had a slow start with only four points in the first half. He finished strong though scoring 25 in the second to finish with 29 pts, 6 asst, 6 rebs, and 4 steals. Okafor dominated the paint with 22 points and 18 boards.

Overall Apple Valley (Jones) was overmatched by Whitney Young (Okafor) which has three D1 commits on the team. But Tyus was phenomenal trying to lead his team in a second half comeback. Both these guys are special players and should be a real treat to watch them next year.

mgtr
12-12-2013, 10:10 PM
Hard to judge high school players. If they were both available to Duke today, I don't think either could start. Okafor has enormous potential, but needs some serious Coach K coaching. Jones might have a better chance to play, but he needs some defense. I am betting that by next November they will be ready to play at Duke. I don't think that either will be at the current Jabari Parker level, but will get substantial minutes. Specifically, unless Marshall improves a whole bunch, Okafor will be our main guy in the middle. Quinn vs. Jones -- ????, probably depends on how well Jones can play defense. Now, if Parker and/or Hood stays, we could well be looking at an unbeaten season. For now, we have almost a whole season ahead of us, with known (good!) players.

flyingdutchdevil
12-13-2013, 09:12 AM
...does anyone enjoy watching high school games? I watched 75% of yesterday's game before changing channels. I tuned in to catch our boys, but ended up getting really really bored. The high number of turnovers, the lack of defense, the poor shooting, the lack of size... it's definitely not my cup of tea.

High school ball and college is like night and day.

Billy Dat
12-13-2013, 09:24 AM
...does anyone enjoy watching high school games? I watched 75% of yesterday's game before changing channels. I tuned in to catch our boys, but ended up getting really really bored. The high number of turnovers, the lack of defense, the poor shooting, the lack of size... it's definitely not my cup of tea.

High school ball and college is like night and day.

What's funny is that this is exactly what a lot of NBA-only fans say about college basketball. I like high school basketball, but I do watch it mostly in person. Then again, I watch lots of sub high school basketball so maybe the amount of 4th and 2nd grade games I have been watching makes high school seem like the NBA!

Gthoma2a
12-13-2013, 09:25 AM
Hard to judge high school players. If they were both available to Duke today, I don't think either could start. Okafor has enormous potential, but needs some serious Coach K coaching. Jones might have a better chance to play, but he needs some defense. I am betting that by next November they will be ready to play at Duke. I don't think that either will be at the current Jabari Parker level, but will get substantial minutes. Specifically, unless Marshall improves a whole bunch, Okafor will be our main guy in the middle. Quinn vs. Jones -- ????, probably depends on how well Jones can play defense. Now, if Parker and/or Hood stays, we could well be looking at an unbeaten season. For now, we have almost a whole season ahead of us, with known (good!) players.

Okafor would definitely start. The HS game is a lot different than college. A few practices would refine what needs to change (coaches allow players to roam and just play in HS) and, besides, there's nobody above him on our team.

CajunDevil
12-13-2013, 09:37 AM
Hard to judge high school players. If they were both available to Duke today, I don't think either could start. Okafor has enormous potential, but needs some serious Coach K coaching. Jones might have a better chance to play, but he needs some defense. I am betting that by next November they will be ready to play at Duke. I don't think that either will be at the current Jabari Parker level, but will get substantial minutes. Specifically, unless Marshall improves a whole bunch, Okafor will be our main guy in the middle. Quinn vs. Jones -- ????, probably depends on how well Jones can play defense. Now, if Parker and/or Hood stays, we could well be looking at an unbeaten season. For now, we have almost a whole season ahead of us, with known (good!) players.


The zone made this game hard to watch, but there were a few things to note:
1. Tyus Jones' second half was impressive. For those that question his shot - don't. The kid has nice form, great range, good elevation and a quick release. Very solid.
2. Tyus had one move where lowered his body and increased his stride length - almost doubled it it seemed - and beat his defender in a half-court set. The defender had to reach and subsequently fouled him. To see a HS senior do that move, which was Steph Curry/Kyrie-ish, was impressive.
3. Jahlil has HUGE hands, yet has a very nice stroke from the line.
4. Jahlil has a very developed offensive repertoire for a pre-NBA level big. Very impressive.
5. Jahlil has good vision when doubled and makes strong, quick decisions.

Not so good...
1. Effort level for Jahlil seemed a bit low in the second half... could be fatigue - 2 18 min halfs and no subs. I wouldn't worry about this when he plays for K, however.
2. Defense. Of course, the teams played a good bit of zone so it was hard to gauge each player's effectiveness, but Jahlil seemed to not rotate in a timely way on a couple of occasions and Tyus was caught looking on a back door on at least one occasion. Tyus did have a very nice block from behind, however. Also, Jahlil had a few nice blocks and a number of challenges on D. Overall, I'm not concerned with their D.

Troublemaker
12-13-2013, 09:57 AM
What's funny is that this is exactly what a lot of NBA-only fans say about college basketball. I like high school basketball, but I do watch it mostly in person. Then again, I watch lots of sub high school basketball so maybe the amount of 4th and 2nd grade games I have been watching makes high school seem like the NBA!

After early-entry began to hit college ball hard in the early to mid-90's, the game has declined to the point where I would now consider myself much more a Duke basketball fan than a college basketball fan. If I want to watch high-quality basketball, I'll watch the NBA. To the extent that I watch any college game that doesn't involve Duke, it is almost always because (a) I want to root against a top-tier ACC team that Duke is competing with in the conference standings, or (b) for non-ACC games, I want to scout good teams to figure out whether I want them in Duke's bracket or not in March. (Because that's what grown men should be thinking about!). If there's no Duke angle to a game, I'm probably not watching.

Ichabod Drain
12-13-2013, 09:58 AM
...does anyone enjoy watching high school games? I watched 75% of yesterday's game before changing channels. I tuned in to catch our boys, but ended up getting really really bored. The high number of turnovers, the lack of defense, the poor shooting, the lack of size... it's definitely not my cup of tea.

High school ball and college is like night and day.

I enjoyed the whole game. I guess I just like seeing basketball played at the varying levels of player development.

If you missed the last 25% of the game you missed Tyus going off. Really tried to bring his team back in the last 10 min of the game. Very impressive.

jacone21
12-13-2013, 10:05 AM
I thought Jones looked like the real deal. Later in the game, when others looked like they were slowing down, he looked like he was just warming up. I think he would've dominated the second game (if they ran another one). Several times he was in the seam directing his team on how to beat the zone, and it worked. He has great vision and quickness and the proverbial basketball IQ. He's going to be great in the Duke system.

Okafor is a big dude! He was working against triple teams all night, making it hard for him to display traditional post moves. It's hard to say what he can do against college bigs next year. When he's in close, he can definitely finish. I wasn't impressed at all with his defense and hustle. Like an above poster wrote, maybe it was fatigue, but he was playing pretty lazy most of the game. I think the speed of the college game is going to blow his mind. He needs to get more cut and play with a lot more effort if he's going to succeed at Duke. I wonder if there's anyone who can help him work on that next summer. hmmmm

CDu
12-13-2013, 10:18 AM
What's funny is that this is exactly what a lot of NBA-only fans say about college basketball. I like high school basketball, but I do watch it mostly in person. Then again, I watch lots of sub high school basketball so maybe the amount of 4th and 2nd grade games I have been watching makes high school seem like the NBA!

The one difference I'd say is that in high school you often have a HUGE disparity in physical development at the high school level. At the college level, kids are closer to full-grown. So in high school, not only do you see less skill, but you also see more cases where a manchild just abuses a 150lb kid.

That being said, I agree: the quality of play in the NBA is far superior to college basketball. The quality of play in college is far superior to high school basketball. If you exclusively watch just one, then moving down a level is going to lead to a huge dropoff in interest.

flyingdutchdevil
12-13-2013, 10:21 AM
The one difference I'd say is that in high school you often have a HUGE disparity in physical development at the high school level. At the college level, kids are closer to full-grown. So in high school, not only do you see less skill, but you also see more cases where a manchild just abuses a 150lb kid.

That being said, I agree: the quality of play in the NBA is far superior to college basketball. The quality of play in college is far superior to high school basketball. If you exclusively watch just one, then moving down a level is going to lead to a huge dropoff in interest.

In the case of Okajor vs Jones Jr, it's more like manchild vs 84lb kid. The kid was so small! Hopefully he grows to be Tyus 2.0.

COYS
12-13-2013, 10:32 AM
I thought Jones looked like the real deal. Later in the game, when others looked like they were slowing down, he looked like he was just warming up. I think he would've dominated the second game (if they ran another one). Several times he was in the seam directing his team on how to beat the zone, and it worked. He has great vision and quickness and the proverbial basketball IQ. He's going to be great in the Duke system.

Okafor is a big dude! He was working against triple teams all night, making it hard for him to display traditional post moves. It's hard to say what he can do against college bigs next year. When he's in close, he can definitely finish. I wasn't impressed at all with his defense and hustle. Like an above poster wrote, maybe it was fatigue, but he was playing pretty lazy most of the game. I think the speed of the college game is going to blow his mind. He needs to get more cut and play with a lot more effort if he's going to succeed at Duke. I wonder if there's anyone who can help him work on that next summer. hmmmm

I think the zone/triple team frustrated Okafor a little bit. Also, his team did a poor job getting him the ball, most of the game. He had flashes when he would be in position and the guards would consistently miss him. Other times, they forced it into him when he was in a bad position and he either had to come out of the post to get the ball or the defense was able to poke the pass away. However, he showed some good passing ability out of the triple team. Considering how well Okafor has shown in international competition combined with the fact that, despite the triple team, despite the poor entry passes from the guards, despite the fact that he seemed a little fatigued in the second half, he still ended up with 22 and 18. I'd say that's pretty good considering that it didn't seem like his best game, overall.

Kedsy
12-13-2013, 10:39 AM
Also, his team did a poor job getting him the ball, most of the game.

Perhaps this is one of the reasons he was so keen on the "package deal" with Tyus?

jimrowe0
12-13-2013, 11:38 AM
Didn't get to watch the game, but here are some highlights I found. Tyus has great elevation, rotation, and release on his shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLL_dyXVocw

jipops
12-13-2013, 12:32 PM
Hard to judge high school players. If they were both available to Duke today, I don't think either could start.

Well they would be a good bit younger than everyone else on the team if that were the case (Jahlil turns 18 in a couple days and Tyus turns 18 in May). However, I think most feel confident that freshman Okafor will start at center on day 1 over juniors Amile and Marshall next season.

CDu
12-13-2013, 01:01 PM
Well they would be a good bit younger than everyone else on the team if that were the case (Jahlil turns 18 in a couple days and Tyus turns 18 in May). However, I think most feel confident that freshman Okafor will start at center on day 1 over juniors Amile and Marshall next season.

I agree, but I would take Jefferson off that C list. I think everyone should agree that Jefferson is not a C. He's being forced to play some C this season out of necessity, but he is a PF in a SF/PF body.

Next year, the C will be Okafor and Plumlee. I'd expect Okafor to play as much as he can handle, with Plumlee eating up the rest of the C minutes. Jefferson will then get as many minutes as he can handle at PF, with (presumably) Ojeleye handling the backup minutes.

There is more competition for PT at guard, but even still I'd expect T. Jones to make an immediate impact.

BD80
12-13-2013, 01:32 PM
I agree, but I would take Jefferson off that C list. I think everyone should agree that Jefferson is not a C. He's being forced to play some C this season out of necessity, but he is a PF in a SF/PF body.

Next year, the C will be Okafor and Plumlee. I'd expect Okafor to play as much as he can handle, with Plumlee eating up the rest of the C minutes. Jefferson will then get as many minutes as he can handle at PF, with (presumably) Ojeleye handling the backup minutes.

There is more competition for PT at guard, but even still I'd expect T. Jones to make an immediate impact.

It was interesting to hear that Jahlil had made the greatest strides in his conditioning, that he had greatly transformed his body and was concentrating on his diet. It seemed that his conditioning is the one thing he would most need to improve upon to get consistent minutes at Duke. I am reasonably confident that he will have improved his conditioning greatly by time he competes wearing a Duke jersey, but I still don't see him being able to log 30+ and maintain the intensity Coach K will demand. Marshall will see more than spot minutes. That said, I am REALLY excited to watch Jahlil play for Duke - if he is not double-teamed he will be nearly automatic down low. It looks like he has a feel for positioning and his hands are incredible. Cook and Jones will have a blast feeding him in the post. If he is double teamed, Jahlil will have no trouble finding the open man down low or at the three point line. He will likely be third on the team in assists, and the team will have a very high ratio of assists per field goal.

Tyus was more athletic than I expected, but I see why the experts gush over his other attributes. His pace is outstanding, he anticipates where he will need to be at a particular point in time to make a pass to place his teammate in the best possible offensive situation, and Tyus then adjusts his dribble and speed of penetration to achieve separation and arrive at the necessary spot at the exact time to make the perfect pass. It is not as showy as Kyrie breaking ankles, but as beautiful to watch.

I hope Amile only gets a few minutes per game at the 4 ... as Jabari will get most of the PT there :D

CDu
12-13-2013, 03:10 PM
but I still don't see him being able to log 30+ and maintain the intensity Coach K will demand. Marshall will see more than spot minutes.

I didn't mean to suggest that Plumlee will play spot minutes. I just meant that Okafor will be the unquestioned starter and Plumlee will get the rest. I'm thinking 25-30mpg for Okafor and 10-15mpg for Plumlee.

Potato Head
12-13-2013, 04:52 PM
If basketball doesn't work out for him, Tyus should try walking onto the football team as a DB. Dude is a hawk on defense. I had some questions about Jones coming in based on the videos I'd seen but after watching him in a game I don't really anymore. Not surprised Okafor was less impressive, they were double and tripling him the whole game. Excited for next year.

FerryFor50
12-13-2013, 04:57 PM
...does anyone enjoy watching high school games? I watched 75% of yesterday's game before changing channels. I tuned in to catch our boys, but ended up getting really really bored. The high number of turnovers, the lack of defense, the poor shooting, the lack of size... it's definitely not my cup of tea.

High school ball and college is like night and day.

Agreed. I also hate the lack of a shot clock.

Troublemaker
12-14-2013, 08:51 AM
A couple of articles about the game:

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_24714754/high-school-basketball-tyus-jones-jahlil-okafor-square


Mike Krzyzewski gave his Sharpie marker a workout Thursday night.
Sitting courtside at Apple Valley High School, the Duke coach jotted notes, pro and con, and diagrammed plays that involved his prize recruits for next season: Apple Valley's Tyus Jones and Chicago Whitney Young's Jahlil Okafor, friends whose teams faced off in a game televised nationally on ESPN2.

When it got to tip-off, Krzyzewski was all business analyzing Jones, the top-ranked point guard in the country and Okafor, a 6-foot-11 powerful center widely considered the nation's top recruit at any position.
Asked if he was still able to enjoy the game despite his work, Krzyzewski cheerfully replied, "Oh, yes; I love the game of basketball.''

Okafor said he is looking forward to be on the receiving end of alley-oop passes from Jones.
"I was dreaming about that,'' he said.
"Jahlil is a force down low,'' Jones said. "He is a great player. I am excited for next year.''

http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/235682561.html?page=1&c=y


They committed to Duke simultaneously, on split screens. They planned to dine together with their families Thursday night.
“I think it’s just through basketball,” Okafor said about the friendship. “I’ve known him since the third grade, and we’re so similar off the court. He’s a pretty quiet kid. He’s my best friend.”
Befitting their relationship, the game was frequently spectacular and never contentious. The future Dukies didn’t speak much on the court, except in the language of one-upsmanship.


“I was excited for Apple Valley tonight,” Jones said. “Apple Valley has earned that.”
Then he headed toward the cold, toward dinner with his old friend and future teammate.
“High school ball is way different than AAU ball,” he said. “It’s your town, your people. So it was special.”

Would be great to see these two best friends start together next year. Regardless, they'll be on the court together a lot.

AtlDuke72
12-14-2013, 11:55 AM
Hard to judge high school players. If they were both available to Duke today, I don't think either could start. Okafor has enormous potential, but needs some serious Coach K coaching. Jones might have a better chance to play, but he needs some defense. I am betting that by next November they will be ready to play at Duke. I don't think that either will be at the current Jabari Parker level, but will get substantial minutes. Specifically, unless Marshall improves a whole bunch, Okafor will be our main guy in the middle. Quinn vs. Jones -- ????, probably depends on how well Jones can play defense. Now, if Parker and/or Hood stays, we could well be looking at an unbeaten season. For now, we have almost a whole season ahead of us, with known (good!) players.

I expect that Tyus Jones and Cook will be on the floor together a whole lot next year. Along with Sulaimon and Matt Jones that will be an incredible back court.

oldnavy
12-14-2013, 11:59 AM
I find it hard to gauge the kids in these HS games... like others have said, it is hard to really see what they can do when they are not supported by as talented kids. I would think the AAU circuit would be a bit better to assess how they play than the HS teams.

That being said, if they are as good as expected, then I will be excited to watch next year.

I have been really surprised at how VERY GOOD Jabari has been this year, if they are anywhere close to his level, we will have something very special. It almost always seems that the hype is greater than the player so I temper my expectations... Jabari has proven to be an exception.