Welcome to Duke, Justise Winslow!

[Bob Green]

Welcome Justise Winslow to Duke here!

[GGLC]

I love this kid already.

And I think he's going to make quite an impact in Durham, both on the court and off.

[Henderson]

I love this kid already.

And I think he's going to make quite an impact in Durham, both on the court and off.

Well put. Couldn't have said it better. What a perfect fit for Duke and Mr. Winslow.

[weezie]

Fantastic news Mr. Winslow! Thank you, indeed.
Can't wait to cheer for you in Cameron!

[Hancock 4 Duke]

Wow! Watching him tear up like that was hard to handle, you can tell the whole decision process was tough for him. Welcome to Duke, Justise!

[Ichabod Drain]

So much has changed in a week... Epic class coming in next year!

Welcome Justise!

[Billy Dat]

Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDanielsFOX 5m
Time for Jeff Capel to get another head coaching gig. Point man on Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Tyus Jones, Justise Winslow & Rodney Hood.

[FerryFor50]

Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDanielsFOX 5m
Time for Jeff Capel to get another head coaching gig. Point man on Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Tyus Jones, Justise Winslow & Rodney Hood.

NOOOOO!

We need him! Plus, maybe he's being groomed for Duke! :)

[wsb3]

Wow...

[duke blue brewcrew]

Has there ever been a bigger 7 days in Duke sports history?!

[SupaDave]

Patience is sweet Justice...

[TheOldBattleship]

From an article (http://www.usab.com/mens/u19/13_mu19_winslow_feature.html) on Winslow's time with Team USA last summer: "I think I can bring a lot of energy to this team. We have a lot of offensive threats and I can score, but I think I can really dictate the game with my defense and rebounding. I can bring a lot of energy to the court."

Smart player, good teammate, great guy. Can't wait to see Justise in Cameron Indoor!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Evan Daniels ‏@EvanDanielsFOX 5m
Time for Jeff Capel to get another head coaching gig. Point man on Jabari Parker, Jahlil Okafor, Tyus Jones, Justise Winslow & Rodney Hood.

Capel may be the best recruiter Duke has had who is not named Krzyzewski. He has done a stellar job. Frankly speaking, I would love for Capel to leave, get more in-game coaching experience, and come back for "more responsibility".

[AncientPsychicT]

Justise will be laying down the law at Coach K's court next year!

But in all seriousness, this guy seems like an amazing person. You could see on his face the gravity of the announcement he was making. He understood how big of a life choice he was making, and he didn't try to smear over that with any glitz or glamour; he instead kept it simple and yet still managed to nearly break down with honest emotion. Justise is humble and very intelligent, and I couldn't be prouder to have him on our team.

Welcome to Duke, Chief :D

[flyingdutchdevil]

Has there ever been a bigger 7 days in Duke sports history?!

Early April in 1991, 1992, 2001, and 2010.

Also, I heard that there will be bigger weekends in early April 2014 & 2015 ;)

[Dukehky]

NOOOOO!

We need him! Plus, maybe he's being groomed for Duke! :)

I said this in the recruiting thread, but I think that Capel has become the heir apparent to K. With Dawkins struggling at Stanford, Amaker unsuccessful at Michigan and happy at Harvard, and Collins new to Northwestern, Capel I think is the best candidate of the 4. He had success at VCU and OU, and has been integral in recruiting in the past few years. I think unless something leads you to believe otherwise, Capel will be the HC after K retires.

[DukeWarhead]

It's funny how quickly disappointment can turn into to feeling pretty damn good.

[GGLC]

From an article (http://www.usab.com/mens/u19/13_mu19_winslow_feature.html) on Winslow's time with Team USA last summer: "I think I can bring a lot of energy to this team. We have a lot of offensive threats and I can score, but I think I can really dictate the game with my defense and rebounding. I can bring a lot of energy to the court."

Smart player, good teammate, great guy. Can't wait to see Justise in Cameron Indoor!

In that same article, Justise refers to a friendship between him and fellow Houstonian Rasheed Sulaimon. That couldn't have hurt at all.

Thanks, Sheed. :)

[CDu]

Fantastic news. Assuming that Hood and Parker both go pro, we're looking at the following squad:

PG: M. Jones/Cook
SG: Cook/Sulaimon/M. Jones/Allen
SF: Winslow/M. Jones
PF: Jefferson/Ojeleye/Murphy
C: Okafor/Plumlee

If the trio of Jefferson, Ojeleye, and Murphy can hold down the PF spot defensively, then that is a team that appears to have a bit of everything: size, athleticism, shooting, ballhandling/playmaking, post scoring.

What a great week for the recruiting efforts!

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

I just want to thank God for allowing players with such passion, compassion and good hearts to select Duke University as their school of choice. Our cup truly runneth over (especially during the past week)! Let's Go Duke!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Fantastic news. Assuming that Hood and Parker both go pro, we're looking at the following squad:

PG: T. Jones/Cook
SG: Cook/Sulaimon/M. Jones/Allen
SF: Winslow/M. Jones
PF: Jefferson/Ojeleye/Murphy
C: Okafor/Plumlee

If the trio of Jefferson, Ojeleye, and Murphy can hold down the PF spot defensively, then that is a team that appears to have a bit of everything: size, athleticism, shooting, ballhandling/playmaking, post scoring.

What a great week for the recruiting efforts!

Quick correction.

[OldPhiKap]

Welcome Mr. Winslow! Justise will be served.

What a sick class coming in next year. Yikes!

[FerryFor50]

I said this in the recruiting thread, but I think that Capel has become the heir apparent to K. With Dawkins struggling at Stanford, Amaker unsuccessful at Michigan and happy at Harvard, and Collins new to Northwestern, Capel I think is the best candidate of the 4. He had success at VCU and OU, and has been integral in recruiting in the past few years. I think unless something leads you to believe otherwise, Capel will be the HC after K retires.

You're leaving out Wojo, who's also likely in the running.

[CDu]

Quick correction.

Thanks. Mentally I typed T. Physically I apparently failed. :(

[Kedsy]

Fantastic news. Assuming that Hood and Parker both go pro, we're looking at the following squad:

Yeah, it's amazing to think that in two seasons we could lose Mason, Ryan, and Seth one year and then Jabari, Rodney, Andre, Tyler, and Josh the next and not only not skip a beat, but in some ways get better.

[GGLC]

Fantastic news. Assuming that Hood and Parker both go pro, we're looking at the following squad:

PG: M. Jones/Cook
SG: Cook/Sulaimon/M. Jones/Allen
SF: Winslow/M. Jones
PF: Jefferson/Ojeleye/Murphy
C: Okafor/Plumlee

If the trio of Jefferson, Ojeleye, and Murphy can hold down the PF spot defensively, then that is a team that appears to have a bit of everything: size, athleticism, shooting, ballhandling/playmaking, post scoring.

What a great week for the recruiting efforts!

Phenomenal depth. Amazing that we could have three freshman starters. And even if it's Jones/Cook/Sulaimon/Jefferson/Okafor, I think Justise (and Matt!) will almost certainly play plenty of key minutes.

[Billy Dat]

Jeff Borzello ‏@jeffborzello 6m
Duke just officially announced their recruiting class -- letters of intent signed from Okafor, Jones, Winslow, Allen.

[luburch]

I was waiting someone to bring this up
@AndyGlockner: So Kentucky is an NBA mill, but when Duke crushes a class, it's K showing he can still win recruiting battles?

[Billy Dat]

(or chesTnuts)

Jeff Gravley ‏@jgravleyWRAL 1m
#Duke recruits Jones, Okafor & Winslow were on Team USA U17 World Champ Team in 2012. Think being USA coach is helping Coach K???

Jim Young ‏@ACCSports 50s
Man, imagine how well K could recruit if he wasn't distracted by coaching Team USA ...

Seth Davis ‏@SethDavisHoops 1m
Anyone else willing to at least entertain the possibility that Jabari Parker will return as a soph? He's just crazy enough to do it.

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 5m
K makes $9-10M a year. I'm not going to pretend Big Boy CBB is central to a grander academic mission, regardless of whether kids go to class

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 4m
It's his (and Cal's and Izzo's and Pitino's) job to get great players and win games within whatever guidelines the school proscribes.

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 10m
If Duke wins 2015 NCAA championship with three one-and-done players, will all the people who bled at the 2012 Final Four be at it again?

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS 15m
You misspelled “definitely.” RT @jeffborzello: Duke has now basically clinched the No. 1 recruiting class in 2014

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 16m
So Kentucky is an NBA mill, but when Duke crushes a class, it's K showing he can still win recruiting battles?

Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 20m
@GaryParrishCBS @EvanDanielsFOX remember when they didn't get Harrison Barnes?Talk about bounce back

[GGLC]

In the extreeeeemely unlikely event that Rodney and Jabari returned next year and we started (say) Cook/Sulaimon (or Tyus)/Hood/Parker/Okafor, our second squad could legitimately be the core of a Top 25 team:

T. Jones (or Sulaimon)
M. Jones
Winslow
Ojeleye
Jefferson

Wow.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Patience is sweet Justice...

Make that JustiSe.

[CDu]

In the extreeeeemely unlikely event that Rodney and Jabari returned next year and we started (say) Cook/Sulaimon (or Tyus)/Hood/Parker/Okafor, our second squad could legitimately be the core of a Top 25 team:

T. Jones (or Sulaimon)
M. Jones
Winslow
Ojeleye
Jefferson

Wow.

Even without Hood and Parker (and I think we should plan on not having either next year), that second unit looks good:

Cook/Sulaimon
M. Jones/ Allen
M. Jones/Murphy/Ojeleye
Ojeleye/Murphy
Murphy/Plumlee

I can't tell you all (and probably don't need to do so) how happy I am that we got these four guys. I've felt since last year that our best chance at title #5 would be next year if we could get those guys, as I do hold the belief that our lack of rebounding and interior defense will be our undoing against bigger and better teams. Hopefully these guys prove me wrong this year, but at least we now know that next year looks VERY promising to say the least.

[gurufrisbee]

Welcome to the Blue Devil family. You're gonna love it here!

[flyingdutchdevil]

This is the make-up of our team next year (assuming everyone stays, which we know isn't going to happen):

Q. Cook - DC
A. Murphy - Rhode Island
M. Plumlee 3 - Indiana
R. Sulaimon - Texas
A. Jefferson - Penn
R. Hood - Mississippi
J. Parker - Illinois
M. Jones - Texas
S. Ojeleye - Kansas
G. Allen - Florida
T. Jones - Minnesota
J. Okafor - Illinois
J. Winslow - Texas

?????????????????????????

So, to sum up, Rick Barnes is losing his job this year, John Groce hasn't recruited well, we have zero players from any state that boarders North Carolina (including North Carolina. And no, Plumlee is from Warsaw, Indiana, not N. Carolina), 9 of the 13 players are from fly-over states, and our players will be arguing NONE STOP about who makes the best BBQ.

Got it.

[77devil]

(or chesTnuts)

Jeff Gravley ‏@jgravleyWRAL 1m
#Duke recruits Jones, Okafor & Winslow were on Team USA U17 World Champ Team in 2012. Think being USA coach is helping Coach K???

Jim Young ‏@ACCSports 50s
Man, imagine how well K could recruit if he wasn't distracted by coaching Team USA ...

Seth Davis ‏@SethDavisHoops 1m
Anyone else willing to at least entertain the possibility that Jabari Parker will return as a soph? He's just crazy enough to do it.

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 5m
K makes $9-10M a year. I'm not going to pretend Big Boy CBB is central to a grander academic mission, regardless of whether kids go to class

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 4m
It's his (and Cal's and Izzo's and Pitino's) job to get great players and win games within whatever guidelines the school proscribes.

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 10m
If Duke wins 2015 NCAA championship with three one-and-done players, will all the people who bled at the 2012 Final Four be at it again?

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS 15m
You misspelled “definitely.” RT @jeffborzello: Duke has now basically clinched the No. 1 recruiting class in 2014

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 16m
So Kentucky is an NBA mill, but when Duke crushes a class, it's K showing he can still win recruiting battles?

Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 20m
@GaryParrishCBS @EvanDanielsFOX remember when they didn't get Harrison Barnes?Talk about bounce back

The haters are resurfacing.

[Henderson]

Even without Hood and Parker (and I think we should plan on not having either next year), that second unit looks good:

Cook/Sulaimon
M. Jones/ Allen
M. Jones/Murphy/Ojeleye
Ojeleye/Murphy
Murphy/Plumlee

I can't tell you all (and probably don't need to do so) how happy I am that we got these four guys. I've felt since last year that our best chance at title #5 would be next year if we could get those guys, as I do hold the belief that our lack of rebounding and interior defense will be our undoing against bigger and better teams. Hopefully these guys prove me wrong this year, but at least we now know that next year looks VERY promising to say the least.

Fixed it.

[GGLC]

Even without Hood and Parker (and I think we should plan on not having either next year), that second unit looks good:

Cook/Sulaimon
M. Jones/ Allen
M. Jones/Murphy/Ojeleye
Ojeleye/Murphy
Murphy/Plumlee

I can't tell you all (and probably don't need to do so) how happy I am that we got these three guys. I've felt since last year that our best chance at title #5 would be next year if we could get those guys, as I do hold the belief that our lack of rebounding and interior defense will be our undoing against bigger and better teams. Hopefully these guys prove me wrong this year, but at least we now know that next year looks VERY promising to say the least.

You missed the T again. ;)

[GGLC]

And yeah, I think Grayson Allen will certainly be a significant contributor at Duke as well. Might not be until Rasheed leaves, though.

[FerryFor50]

(or chesTnuts)

Jeff Gravley ‏@jgravleyWRAL 1m
#Duke recruits Jones, Okafor & Winslow were on Team USA U17 World Champ Team in 2012. Think being USA coach is helping Coach K???

Jim Young ‏@ACCSports 50s
Man, imagine how well K could recruit if he wasn't distracted by coaching Team USA ...

Seth Davis ‏@SethDavisHoops 1m
Anyone else willing to at least entertain the possibility that Jabari Parker will return as a soph? He's just crazy enough to do it.

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 5m
K makes $9-10M a year. I'm not going to pretend Big Boy CBB is central to a grander academic mission, regardless of whether kids go to class

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 4m
It's his (and Cal's and Izzo's and Pitino's) job to get great players and win games within whatever guidelines the school proscribes.

Michael DeCourcy ‏@tsnmike 10m
If Duke wins 2015 NCAA championship with three one-and-done players, will all the people who bled at the 2012 Final Four be at it again?

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS 15m
You misspelled “definitely.” RT @jeffborzello: Duke has now basically clinched the No. 1 recruiting class in 2014

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 16m
So Kentucky is an NBA mill, but when Duke crushes a class, it's K showing he can still win recruiting battles?

Doug Gottlieb ‏@GottliebShow 20m
@GaryParrishCBS @EvanDanielsFOX remember when they didn't get Harrison Barnes?Talk about bounce back

A lot of those are pretty benign. The only ones that seem "hater-ish" are Glockner and Gravley... Did Gravley complain when Cal landed Towns, who played on the Dominican national team that Cal coached? At least K coached a team whose country he's a CITIZEN of (and served for, as well).

[Billy Dat]

The haters are resurfacing.

I don't know, those tweets were all pretty positive.

Whether the Capel affect, the Team USA effect, or some combo of both, the recruiting machine is in insanely high gear, 1997-99 gear. We are lucky fans.

[Duvall]

A lot of those are pretty benign. The only ones that seem "hater-ish" are Glockner and Gravley... Did Gravley complain when Cal landed Towns, who played on the Dominican national team that Cal coached? At least K coached a team whose country he's a CITIZEN of (and served for, as well).

I don't think Gravley's tweet was hater-ish. Krzyzewski's work with USA basketball appears to have been a tremendous help here.

[Eakane]

I said this in the recruiting thread, but I think that Capel has become the heir apparent to K. With Dawkins struggling at Stanford, Amaker unsuccessful at Michigan and happy at Harvard, and Collins new to Northwestern, Capel I think is the best candidate of the 4. He had success at VCU and OU, and has been integral in recruiting in the past few years. I think unless something leads you to believe otherwise, Capel will be the HC after K retires.

It's bad enough that we discuss next year's team with theis year not five games old, but who replaces K? I know he's got more games behind hmi than ahead (me too, sad to say!), BUT HE'S FAR FROM DONE.

And yeah, I know this is a Fan's Joint and it's fun to speculate, but this now doesn't seem like good form.

[Billy Dat]

It's bad enough that we discuss next year's team with theis year not five games old, but who replaces K? I know he's got more games behind hmi than ahead (me too, sad to say!), BUT HE'S FAR FROM DONE.

And yeah, I know this is a Fan's Joint and it's fun to speculate, but this now doesn't seem like good form.

No worries, there is a lively "Does Justise Winslow's addition to the 2014 recruiting class mean that Jeff Capel is the front runner to replace Coach K whenever he decides to step down which, does it really need to be said, we hope doesn't happen for a really really really really long time" discussion going on Reddit so it'll stay off these pages.

[sagegrouse]

Fantastic news. Assuming that Hood and Parker both go pro, we're looking at the following squad:

PG: M. Jones/Cook
SG: Cook/Sulaimon/M. Jones/Allen
SF: Winslow/M. Jones
PF: Jefferson/Ojeleye/Murphy
C: Okafor/Plumlee

If the trio of Jefferson, Ojeleye, and Murphy can hold down the PF spot defensively, then that is a team that appears to have a bit of everything: size, athleticism, shooting, ballhandling/playmaking, post scoring.

What a great week for the recruiting efforts!

I assume you mean T. Jones as point guard. -- sage

[MChambers]

Even without Hood and Parker (and I think we should plan on not having either next year), that second unit looks good:

Cook/Sulaimon
M. Jones/ Allen
M. Jones/Murphy/Ojeleye
Ojeleye/Murphy
Murphy/Plumlee

I can't tell you all (and probably don't need to do so) how happy I am that we got these three guys. I've felt since last year that our best chance at title #5 would be next year if we could get those guys, as I do hold the belief that our lack of rebounding and interior defense will be our undoing against bigger and better teams. Hopefully these guys prove me wrong this year, but at least we now know that next year looks VERY promising to say the least.
Pity that the Maryland Terrapins won't be in the ACC.

[CDu]

You missed the T again. ;)

No I didn't. T Jones will start.

[OZ]

The haters are resurfacing.


When it happens, it makes me happy.

[77devil]

I don't know, those tweets were all pretty positive.

Whether the Capel affect, the Team USA effect, or some combo of both, the recruiting machine is in insanely high gear, 1997-99 gear. We are lucky fans.

Read Glockner's multiple tweets again. Seems pretty hostile to me. These are supposed journalists. They have to suppress their real feelings somewhat.

No doubt we are back on the recruiting roll.

[sagegrouse]

A lot of those are pretty benign. The only ones that seem "hater-ish" are Glockner and Gravley... Did Gravley complain when Cal landed Towns, who played on the Dominican national team that Cal coached? At least K coached a team whose country he's a CITIZEN of (and served for, as well).


(or chesTnuts)

Jeff Gravley ‏@jgravleyWRAL 1m
#Duke recruits Jones, Okafor & Winslow were on Team USA U17 World Champ Team in 2012. Think being USA coach is helping Coach K???


Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 5m
K makes $9-10M a year. I'm not going to pretend Big Boy CBB is central to a grander academic mission, regardless of whether kids go to class

Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 4m
It's his (and Cal's and Izzo's and Pitino's) job to get great players and win games within whatever guidelines the school proscribes.


Andy Glockner ‏@AndyGlockner 16m
So Kentucky is an NBA mill, but when Duke crushes a class, it's K showing he can still win recruiting battles?



Aside from Andy Glockner using "proscribes" when he means the opposite, "prescribes," I could have written any of these, and I am an unabashed K and Duke fan.

WRT hoops at Duke not being "central to a grander academic mission," i guess I agree, but it draws together the worldwide Duke community, which is aids the academic mission.

sagegrouse

[CDu]

I assume you mean T. Jones as point guard. -- sage

Yup. Flyingdutchdevil beat you to the punch already.

[CDu]

It's bad enough that we discuss next year's team with theis year not five games old, but who replaces K? I know he's got more games behind hmi than ahead (me too, sad to say!), BUT HE'S FAR FROM DONE.

And yeah, I know this is a Fan's Joint and it's fun to speculate, but this now doesn't seem like good form.

There is no reason we can't talk about this year, next year AND the future beyond Coach K. I mean, if we weren't able to multitask, why would there be an entire other board to distract us from our focus on this season?

[Troublemaker]

From an article (http://www.usab.com/mens/u19/13_mu19_winslow_feature.html) on Winslow's time with Team USA last summer: "I think I can bring a lot of energy to this team. We have a lot of offensive threats and I can score, but I think I can really dictate the game with my defense and rebounding. I can bring a lot of energy to the court."

Smart player, good teammate, great guy. Can't wait to see Justise in Cameron Indoor!

Stats from that U19 team: http://www.usab.com/misc/13_mu19_usa.pdf

Over 9 games, Justise was the 2nd leading rebounder (even more than Jahlil), 4th leading scorer, shot the most free throws on the team, and also pitched in 14 assists (to 7 turnovers), 4 blocks, and 10 steals. (btw, Sheed made it 3 Dukies on this team)

Duke landed a versatile stat sheet stuffer in Justise. Great day/week.

[duke blue brewcrew]

Early April in 1991, 1992, 2001, and 2010.

Also, I heard that there will be bigger weekends in early April 2014 & 2015 ;)

I like where your heads at on that one. However, I was referring to Duke Football's monster win over Miami followed by it's National Ranking, then landing three of the biggest studs in the 2014 class for basketball...WOW, JUST WOW!!! Life is good as a Blue Devil right now

[wilko]

Has anyone else noticed that since Bomani Jones left Durham back in Late May (when he inked his ESPN deal) and moved to Miami - Duke has been coming up all roses? In everything.... I wonder if HE noticed...

It started with Lacrosse.... continued to football success - now basketball recruiting (and this yrs team is pretty good too!)


Who knew.?? He can be hilarious at times in small doses. If I'da known that's what it took, I'da help him look for a new place and helped him up pack the moving truck years ago.

[Philadukie]

I think Winslow was one of the "hidden gems" of this class, to the extent that makes sense for a recruit of his ranking -- he hasn't received the same level of hype as some other players but he is equally worthy of it. He is supremely talented and has an NBA-ready body (as much as I hate that phrase). Huge get. HUGE.

[roywhite]

Justise seems like a fantastic "glue guy" -- can do a little bit of everything:
Rebound, defend, pass, score (a scorer more than a shooter, I think), and compete hard.

And we need a glue guy to go with other players coming along.

[jv001]

Justise likes defense, Coach K loves defense= minutes for players that can do it the Duke way. So I would think at least 3 of the incoming freshmen get lot's of minutes in next years rotation. Maybe Allen as well. But that's a ways off and I want to enjoy this 2013-2014 squad's journey. GoDuke!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Justise seems like a fantastic "glue guy" -- can do a little bit of everything:
Rebound, defend, pass, score (a scorer more than a shooter, I think), and compete hard.

And we need a glue guy to go with other players coming along.

Do you consider Michael Kidd Gilchrist to be a "glue guy"? If so, then I agree with you - Justise Winslow is a glue guy. But a glue guy who takes names and kicks something that rhymes with bass.

I have a feeling this is my next favorite Blue Devil in my young fan hood career (Duhon, JJ, Demarcus, Nolan, Sulaimon).

Go DUKE!

[conmanlhughes]

based off what they are saying about Winslow, it sounds like he could be a viable replacement to Thornton (If not better offensively, and a lot taller) for next year.

[timmy c]

Stats from that U19 team: http://www.usab.com/misc/13_mu19_usa.pdf

Over 9 games, Justise was the 2nd leading rebounder (even more than Jahlil), 4th leading scorer, shot the most free throws on the team, and also pitched in 14 assists (to 7 turnovers), 4 blocks, and 10 steals. (btw, Sheed made it 3 Dukies on this team)

Duke landed a versatile stat sheet stuffer in Justise. Great day/week.

I believe that Sheed roomed with Winslow during the U19 tryouts. He gets a huge assist today.

[Troublemaker]

based off what they are saying about Winslow, it sounds like he could be a viable replacement to Thornton (If not better offensively, and a lot taller) for next year.

Justise will be much better than Tyler, if not next year, certainly by his sophomore year. But probably next year as well. While I am fond of Tyler, this is a different level of athlete completely. Something like a left-handed Andre Iguodala.

[BD80]

It's funny how quickly disappointment can turn into to feeling pretty damn good.

I wonder if Looney knew about the other 3 coming to Duke and wanted "space"


I said this in the recruiting thread, but I think that Capel has become the heir apparent to K. With Dawkins struggling at Stanford, ...

Johnny has a pretty good class coming in as well, 4 in the top 100, including Reid Travis, a top 35 PF that we offered. Good players who will probably be around for 4 years.


I was waiting someone to bring this up
@AndyGlockner: So Kentucky is an NBA mill, but when Duke crushes a class, it's K showing he can still win recruiting battles?

Are Tyus and Justise OADs? I'm not so sure. Can't call Rodney an OAD, he's been in college 3 years.

[DukeDevil]

anyone have a video link to his announcement?
DD

[tbyers11]

I was waiting someone to bring this up
@AndyGlockner: So Kentucky is an NBA mill, but when Duke crushes a class, it's K showing he can still win recruiting battles?

I hope Glockner is just being contrarian and realizes the difference between UK and Duke. If all 3 of Okafor, Jones and Winslow are OAD or if players stop going to class b/c they are going pro (Orton and Bledose) or if fresh and soph who are barely 1st round picks or 2nd round picks (Orton, Lamb, Teague, Goodwin) go before they are truly ready then I'll start to see some similarities.

[ncexnyc]

Coach K. going back to his military roots and breaking out the shock and awe tactics against the rest of the ACC.

[burnspbesq]

So the average ranking of the men's and women's recruiting classes is 1.5. Not too shabby.

Time to finish the unfinished business from 1999 and win both championships in the same year.

[ForkFondler]

I hope Glockner is just being contrarian and realizes the difference between UK and Duke. If all 3 of Okafor, Jones and Winslow are OAD or if players stop going to class b/c they are going pro (Orton and Bledose) or if fresh and soph who are barely 1st round picks or 2nd round picks (Orton, Lamb, Teague, Goodwin) go before they are truly ready then I'll start to see some similarities.

There is a danger zone here. I would like Duke to have mostly four year players. Heck, Duke Football has five year players now :cool:

[tbyers11]

There is a danger zone here. I would like Duke to have mostly four year players. Heck, Duke Football has five year players now :cool:

I'd like to compete for national titles with mostly four year players but that is not happening. I see a big difference between recruiting very good players that may go early if they "unpack their bags".
We seem to target no more than one "sure-fire" one and done a year. It is likely that Parker and Okafor fit this bill. Jones might but Winslow is likely a multi year player.

I agree that recruiting too much top flight talent can turn a school into an NBA mill but I think Duke's current approach is still a long way from the "danger zone" that Calipari embraces.

[kAzE]

Are Tyus and Justise OADs? I'm not so sure. Can't call Rodney an OAD, he's been in college 3 years.

I guess most of us are in agreement that Okafor is a 1-and-done, but I think Jones very likely could be as well. Don't underestimate him because of his lack of size. He's probably about the same size as Trey Burke, but in my opinion, he's even more talented than Burke. And yeah, I realize Burke won player of the year as a sophomore. That should tell you how much I think of Jones.

[18258]

Heck freaking yeah, go duke

[lotusland]

No worries, there is a lively "Does Justise Winslow's addition to the 2014 recruiting class mean that Jeff Capel is the front runner to replace Coach K whenever he decides to step down which, does it really need to be said, we hope doesn't happen for a really really really really long time" discussion going on Reddit so it'll stay off these pages.

If Capel is HC I think the more important question is who replaces him as big man coach:D?

[kAzE]

If Capel is HC I think the more important question is who replaces him as big man coach:D?

Duh, Jon Scheyer.

[ForkFondler]

I'd like to compete for national titles with mostly four year players but that is not happening. I see a big difference between recruiting very good players that may go early if they "unpack their bags".
We seem to target no more than one "sure-fire" one and done a year. It is likely that Parker and Okafor fit this bill. Jones might but Winslow is likely a multi year player.

I agree that recruiting too much top flight talent can turn a school into an NBA mill but I think Duke's current approach is still a long way from the "danger zone" that Calipari embraces.

The only program that is relying almost entirely on OADs is Kentucky. If Duke becomes the second such program, then there can be no more because the supply is limited. In any case, OADs tend to be boom or bust. I see little competitive disadvantage to spreading the eggs around a bit. But, what the hey, let's give it a shot:D

[lotusland]

I tuned in for the HB, Parker, Shabazz and Looney announcements so you can all thank me for not tuning in for Okafor, Jones and Winslow. The only outlier is that I also tuned in for Amile but I think I must have gotten on DBR seconds after the announcement which probably explains the outcome. I'm going to ignore Turner's announcement so we can probably go ahead and count him in for 2014 too.

[throatybeard]

If Capel is HC I think the more important question is who replaces him as big man coach:D?

Thad Lewis.

I haven't heard the young man's name pronounced, so I'm wondering where the stress goes. Is it homophonous with 'justice,' or is there final stress, jus-TISE? (Many AfAm given names have the stress on the ultima).

[azzefkram]

There is a danger zone here.

Let's get Kenny Loggins on this.

[kAzE]

I'd like to compete for national titles with mostly four year players but that is not happening. I see a big difference between recruiting very good players that may go early if they "unpack their bags".
We seem to target no more than one "sure-fire" one and done a year. It is likely that Parker and Okafor fit this bill. Jones might but Winslow is likely a multi year player.

I agree that recruiting too much top flight talent can turn a school into an NBA mill but I think Duke's current approach is still a long way from the "danger zone" that Calipari embraces.

Calipari's recruiting style lends itself to extreme roster fluctuation. He's always going to have elite talent, but it's hard to say whether or not those players will be able to function well as a unit. I hate the man with a passion, but I respect him immensely for what he is able to do year in and year out with basically an entirely new team every year.

It's too difficult to win a national title with only underclassmen. Even Michigan's Fab 5 couldn't get it done.


The only program that is relying almost entirely on OADs is Kentucky. If Duke becomes the second such program, then there can be no more because the supply is limited. In any case, OADs tend to be boom or bust. I see little competitive disadvantage to spreading the eggs around a bit. But, what the hey, let's give it a shot:D

This is true, but UK's most successful teams had a lot more than just 1-and-done guys. UK's 2012 team featured a transcendent talent in Anthony Davis, but they still needed major contributions from guys who stuck around. Terrence Jones and Doron Lamb were sophomores, Darius Miller and Eloy Vargas were seniors. Their 2011 Final Four team had even more experience, with Miller and DeAndre Liggins as Juniors, and also a major contributor in senior Josh Harrelson. In retrospect, it's easy to see why their 2013 team flamed out so terribly after losing Nerlens Noel.

Still, I prefer Duke's strategy, which is to go after a few elite guys, but also make sure we get a steady diet of high character, 4 -star type guys who will stick around for 4 years. In reality, you need both to succeed. Elite 1 and done type talent and upperclassmen leadership. Most recently, our Duke teams have been swimming in talented upperclassmen, but we haven't landed the elite NBA All-Star type guys (or failed to keep them healthy) to create the perfect mix. This year and next, we might have created the winning formula.

[jimsumner]

Neither Jones nor Winslow looks likely to leave after one season. Okafor, yes.

[timmy c]

Let's get Kenny Loggins on this.

I feel the need... The need for Sheed? :cool:

[westwall]

I think Winslow was one of the "hidden gems" of this class, to the extent that makes sense for a recruit of his ranking -- he hasn't received the same level of hype as some other players but he is equally worthy of it. He is supremely talented and has an NBA-ready body (as much as I hate that phrase). Huge get. HUGE.

I agree with this -- and thought so based upon his USA performances.

[johnb]

I wonder if Looney knew about the other 3 coming to Duke and wanted "space"...


.

I don't think it was space. While Hood and Parker are likely going pro, I really don't think we would have signed more people than we could guarantee scholarships. I think our 4 told coach K of their intentions weeks ago, and Coach k relayed to our other recruits that they would need to wait until spring. The coaching staff isn't allowed to say it, and wouldn't anyway, but my guess is that we got exactly who we wanted.

[tbyers11]

Let's get Kenny Loggins on this.

And Sterling Archer :cool:

[OldPhiKap]

And Sterling Archer :cool:

{Lana shakes her head}

[devildeac]

Duh, Jon Scheyer.

Too tall. He's 6'5" I think:rolleyes:;).

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Thad Lewis.

I haven't heard the young man's name pronounced, so I'm wondering where the stress goes. Is it homophonous with 'justice,' or is there final stress, jus-TISE? (Many AfAm given names have the stress on the ultima).

His HS coach introduced him using the standard pronunciation, as in "justice"..
Love, Ima

[El_Diablo]

Justise interviews Jahlil:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_P4nnfcSiA

[El_Diablo]

anyone have a video link to his announcement?
DD


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nleHP3ajcVo

[J4Kop99]

Maybe it's because I have only seen his highlight reels and not any actual game footage, but Justise looks like an NBA scouts wet dream. How is he "only" the 14th ranked HS recruit? He has all of the things that cannot be taught and whatever he needs will come with time... scouting players confuses the hell out of me.

[heyman25]

Has there ever been a bigger 7 days in Duke sports history?!

I don't think so. Getting Art Heyman away from Frank McGuire was huge for Duke basketball in 1960 and there was a Cotton Bowl team that year, but not in 7 days.

[dcdrumsinc]

Justise reminds me a lot of a lefty, stronger, Ben Mclemore. Maybe not as good a shooter now, but smooth and does a little bit of everything. Is it me or does Justise have insanely broad shoulders?? Dood has some physical tools duke has been looking for at the wing in years.

[77devil]

I hope Glockner is just being contrarian and realizes the difference between UK and Duke. If all 3 of Okafor, Jones and Winslow are OAD or if players stop going to class b/c they are going pro (Orton and Bledose) or if fresh and soph who are barely 1st round picks or 2nd round picks (Orton, Lamb, Teague, Goodwin) go before they are truly ready then I'll start to see some similarities.

Let's not forget Calapari forcing out scholarship players to make room for new one and dones. Any conflation of the two programs, intentional or otherwise, is absurd.

[moonpie23]

Justise interviews Jahlil:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_P4nnfcSiA

Ahhh…..so a career in entertainment after his long and prosperous basketball career…….he's already more polished than some of the ESPN folks….

[miramar]

Let's not forget Calapari forcing out scholarship players to make room for new one and dones. Any conflation of the two programs, intentional or otherwise, is absurd.

Calipari not only forces players out the door as he did with Patrick Patterson, he also announces it during the McDonald's game in order to lure more recruits. Classy.

Patterson is a guy who would have done himself a huge favor by choosing Duke over Kentucky, but I guess hindsight is twenty-twenty. It was certainly frustrating for all of us to have a number of near-miss recruits a few years back, but in the long run I would have to think that it was far more frustrating for guys like Patterson and Greg Echenique to realize that they gave up a once in a lifetime opportunity.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

Awesome news. Welcome!!! Thanks for the video post.

[timmy c]

Calipari not only forces players out the door as he did with Patrick Patterson, he also announces it during the McDonald's game in order to lure more recruits. Classy.

Patterson is a guy who would have done himself a huge favor by choosing Duke over Kentucky, but I guess hindsight is twenty-twenty. It was certainly frustrating for all of us to have a number of near-miss recruits a few years back, but in the long run I would have to think that it was far more frustrating for guys like Patterson and Greg Echenique to realize that they gave up a once in a lifetime opportunity.

In the transition from Gillespie to Calapari there were several players that were shown the door. Patterson was not one of these. I think you have vastly oversimplified the Patterson situation.

Patterson did in fact play for Calapari for the '09-'10 season. I believe the coaching change helped Patterson develop. The addition of Wall and Cousins moved Patterson into the PF position in a dribble drive offense. This move encouraged Patterson to demonstrate/develop an outside shot and increase his attractiveness to NBA squads. In addition, Patterson received his degree from UK at the end of the '09-'10 academic year.

Calapari has plenty of egregious blemishes on his record. No need to overstate the argument against him with revisionist history.

[roywhite]

Justise reminds me a lot of a lefty, stronger, Ben Mclemore. Maybe not as good a shooter now, but smooth and does a little bit of everything. Is it me or does Justise have insanely broad shoulders?? Dood has some physical tools duke has been looking for at the wing in years.

Yeah, for both Justise Winslow and Semi Ojeleye, they don't want to get too close to the football field or Coach Cut will snatch them and press them into duty. They are two very strong, athletic guys.

[timmy c]

Yeah, for both Justise Winslow and Semi Ojeleye, they don't want to get too close to the football field or Coach Cut will snatch them and press them into duty. They are two very strong, athletic guys.

I was sure that someone else would mention...

... Duke is a football school!:D

[AAA1980]

Justise reminds me a lot of a lefty, stronger, Ben Mclemore. Maybe not as good a shooter now, but smooth and does a little bit of everything. Is it me or does Justise have insanely broad shoulders?? Dood has some physical tools duke has been looking for at the wing in years.

Mclemore? i dont see that at all Mclemores one strength was shooting which is supposenly Winslows weakness..Winslow seems to be a great energy/hustle/glue guy Mclemores just a pure scorer who coasts alot..

Just judging by highlights he looks to have alot of Igoudala in him..

[MCFinARL]

If we didn't already love Justise Winslow, how about this twitter exchange with Grant Hill:


grant hill ‏@realgranthill33 13h

Congrats 2 @Chief_Justise 4 signing with Duke... Welcome Young Fella! #ItsGettingReal #ItsNotFair #StillABasketballSchool




Justise Winslow ‏@Chief_Justise 13h

@realgranthill33 appreciate it man. Feels great to be a part of the Duke Family. Think I can wear #33 next year?!


grant hill ‏@realgranthill33 13h

@Chief_Justise You got it, if you want it


Justise Winslow ‏@Chief_Justise 13h

@realgranthill33 no sirrrrr. It's retired for a reason. I gotta earn my stripes first!!

[GGLC]

If we didn't already love Justise Winslow, how about this twitter exchange with Grant Hill:

That's fantastic on both their parts.

[DukeDevil]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nleHP3ajcVo

Thanks for hooking that up!

[OldPhiKap]

Grant Hill: "#StillABasketballSchool"


Heh. Even Grant is following the football team!

[MCFinARL]

Grant Hill: "#StillABasketballSchool"


Heh. Even Grant is following the football team!

Well, rumor has it his family has had some connections to football somewhere along the line.... :D

[g-money]

Welcome to Duke, Justise! It won't be easy for a team of freshmen to complete a back-to-back NCAA title run, but you guys definitely have the talent, attitude, and work ethic to get 'er done. Good luck and enjoy the Duke experience.

[Goduke2010]

Live in Austin now but will definitely be making it to Durham to watch next year's team. Already have our flight out to watch this year's Syracuse game in Feb.

Justise, we're honored you chose Duke, gonna have fun!!

[nocilla]

In the transition from Gillespie to Calapari there were several players that were shown the door. Patterson was not one of these. I think you have vastly oversimplified the Patterson situation.

Patterson did in fact play for Calapari for the '09-'10 season. I believe the coaching change helped Patterson develop. The addition of Wall and Cousins moved Patterson into the PF position in a dribble drive offense. This move encouraged Patterson to demonstrate/develop an outside shot and increase his attractiveness to NBA squads. In addition, Patterson received his degree from UK at the end of the '09-'10 academic year.

Calapari has plenty of egregious blemishes on his record. No need to overstate the argument against him with revisionist history.

I think he was refering to the end of Patterson's junior year when Calipari announced that Patrick was entering the draft. Meanwhile, Patrick and his mom were saying that the decision hadn't been made yet. We don't really know for sure, but it gave the perception that Calipari made the decision for him to free up playing time for his incoming freshmen.

[CDu]

I think he was refering to the end of Patterson's junior year when Calipari announced that Patrick was entering the draft. Meanwhile, Patrick and his mom were saying that the decision hadn't been made yet. We don't really know for sure, but it gave the perception that Calipari made the decision for him to free up playing time for his incoming freshmen.

Of course, Patterson went in the lottery that year. So even if Calipari DID push Patterson out the door (which is uncertain), it's hard to argue that Calipari "pushing him out the door" hurt Patterson.

[InSpades]

I think he was refering to the end of Patterson's junior year when Calipari announced that Patrick was entering the draft. Meanwhile, Patrick and his mom were saying that the decision hadn't been made yet. We don't really know for sure, but it gave the perception that Calipari made the decision for him to free up playing time for his incoming freshmen.

While that situation was admittedly weird... I really doubt Cal pushed Patterson out to make room for freshmen. Patterson averaged 14+/7+ in 2009-2010. There's no way he wouldn't want production like that back. If he is going to "push" players out it's not going to be guys who play 30+ MPG on an elite 8 team. It seems more likely that Cal just assumed Patterson was gone. It doesn't seem to have hurt him very much... he's on his 4th year in the league.

[devildeac]

...with liberty and Justise for all...

Welcome to Duke!

[mr. synellinden]

Usually I don't like player comparisons, but after watching his highlight video, he reminds me a lot of Stacey Augmon. Obviously the lefty thing is part of it.

I've seen some references to Artest. But I like Augmon as a comparison much better.

[Double DD]

If we didn't already love Justise Winslow, how about this twitter exchange with Grant Hill:


The exchange is a bit different if you look at it on Hill's feed


grant hill ‏@realgranthill33 17h

Congrats 2 @Chief_Justise 4 signing with Duke... Welcome Young Fella! #ItsGettingReal #ItsNotFair #StillABasketballSchool


Justise Winslow ‏@Chief_Justise 17h

@realgranthill33 appreciate it man. Feels great to be a part of the Duke Family. Think I can wear #33 next year?!


grant hill ‏@realgranthill33 17h

Slow down young fella lol "@Chief_Justise: @realgranthill33 Feels great to be a part of the Duke Family. Think I can wear #33 next year?!"

[MCFinARL]

The exchange is a bit different if you look at it on Hill's feed

Well, you are right that the "slow down young fella" tweet was not there--but that may have been my copying error, because I remember reading that tweet. The last two tweets followed that one.

[NSDukeFan]

Of course, Patterson went in the lottery that year. So even if Calipari DID push Patterson out the door (which is uncertain), it's hard to argue that Calipari "pushing him out the door" hurt Patterson.

Except that you would like to make that decision yourself, whether it is the correct one or not.

[davekay1971]

...with liberty and Justise for all...

Welcome to Duke!

Is Marcus Liberty's kid coming to Duke also?

[brevity]

Is Marcus Liberty's kid coming to Duke also?

No need. We just give Grayson Allen the nickname "Truth" and the combination of Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones "The American Way."

While on the subject, someone will have to prepare some "Texas Justise" and "Don't Mess with Justise" signs for the 2015 NCAA Tournament. Maybe even a "Chief/Justise" if they can find a Cherokee Parks photo. No rush on that order.

[mr. synellinden]

No need. We just give Grayson Allen the nickname "Truth" and the combination of Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones "The American Way."

While on the subject, someone will have to prepare some "Texas Justise" and "Don't Mess with Justise" signs for the 2015 NCAA Tournament. Maybe even a "Chief/Justise" if they can find a Cherokee Parks photo. No rush on that order.


Good idea, except Jabari is the Truth.

[turnandburn55]

Good idea, except Jabari is the Truth.

Thought Paul Pierce was the Truth? Hah

How about "The Justise League"? or some variant...

On a side note, is it widely believed Justise Winslow is a one-and-done player? Didn't get that impression at all, but all the media outlets are going into freakout mode that we've recruited a bunch of "one-and-done" players

[gam7]

Usually I don't like player comparisons, but after watching his highlight video, he reminds me a lot of Stacey Augmon. Obviously the lefty thing is part of it.

I've seen some references to Artest. But I like Augmon as a comparison much better.

This may be heresy on this board, but he reminds me a bit of a left-handed Nate James... I hear that when he does a pushup, he pushes the world down.

[AncientPsychicT]

Thought Paul Pierce was the Truth? Hah

You know, some people have compared Jabari's game to Paul Pierce's. Considering Jabari's athleticism, his game might even be a little more complete than Pierce's.
In light of that, should we call him the Whole Truth?

:D

[BD80]

You know, some people have compared Jabari's game to Paul Pierce's. Considering Jabari's athleticism, his game might even be a little more complete than Pierce's.
In light of that, should we call him the Whole Truth?

:D

Signs in Cameron: "You Can't Handle the Truth!"

[devildeac]

Is Marcus Liberty's kid coming to Duke also?

I follow recruiting but you're going to have to ask someone who really knows something instead of this poseur:o.

[OldPhiKap]

Is Marcus Liberty's kid coming to Duke also?

Is Justise going to Liberty? If he is anything like Seth Curry, he'll be here in a few years!

[DukeDevil]

Thought Paul Pierce was the Truth? Hah

How about "The Justise League"? or some variant...

On a side note, is it widely believed Justise Winslow is a one-and-done player? Didn't get that impression at all, but all the media outlets are going into freakout mode that we've recruited a bunch of "one-and-done" players

I think a group dressed at the various members of the justice league would be appropriate, like the guys dressed as chefs for coach K. Or the guys with the bones for nate's dog house.

[turnandburn55]

In light of that, should we call him the Whole Truth?

:D

..."Nothing but THE TRUTH!"... I can see it now haha

[roywhite]

Hadn't seen this; sorry if already posted here somewhere

The Winslow Decision (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nleHP3ajcVo)

**hat tip to poster mynameisbond from TDD

[jipops]

Fantastic news. Assuming that Hood and Parker both go pro, we're looking at the following squad:

PG: M. Jones/Cook
SG: Cook/Sulaimon/M. Jones/Allen
SF: Winslow/M. Jones
PF: Jefferson/Ojeleye/Murphy
C: Okafor/Plumlee

If the trio of Jefferson, Ojeleye, and Murphy can hold down the PF spot defensively, then that is a team that appears to have a bit of everything: size, athleticism, shooting, ballhandling/playmaking, post scoring.

What a great week for the recruiting efforts!

Pretty safe assumption I'd say. Just for fun I'd speculate the starting 5 to go like:
Cook
Sulaimon
Winslow
Jefferson
Okafor

This provides a team that probably has little to no issue in the rebounding department as well as a very experienced and defensively strong back court.

Of course there could be the occasional 5 including T Jones and pushing either Sheed or Justise to the bench. Either way we'll have plenty of speed and athleticism especially with guys like Murphy and Ojeleye coming off the bench. We will become pretty small when Okafor goes to the bench barring some substantial improvement from Marshall.

[kAzE]

Pretty safe assumption I'd say. Just for fun I'd speculate the starting 5 to go like:
Cook
Sulaimon
Winslow
Jefferson
Okafor

This provides a team that probably has little to no issue in the rebounding department as well as a very experienced and defensively strong back court.

Of course there could be the occasional 5 including T Jones and pushing either Sheed or Justise to the bench. Either way we'll have plenty of speed and athleticism especially with guys like Murphy and Ojeleye coming off the bench. We will become pretty small when Okafor goes to the bench barring some substantial improvement from Marshall.

I wouldn't count him out just yet. If I recall correctly, MP1 and MP2 both made their biggest jumps between their sophomore and junior years. Of course, this is already MP3's third year technically, but I'll count him as a "redshirt sophomore." It's going to click for him at some point, and he's going to be a reasonable facsimile of his older brothers. He's still in "AHH I'M IN THE GAME!! WHAT DO I DO??" mode. I think he'll be a pretty good back up next year when he progresses to "Wait, I can play a little bit slower and not turn the ball over and/or foul someone every possession?" mode. I'm actually hoping that occurs sometime this year. It would nice to to be able to have his size off the bench right now.

I still think Tyus Jones will start next year, even if Cook has to come off the bench. He's just so incredibly gifted, I don't think there's any way he's not the main ball handler when it's all said and done.

[Dukehky]

Pretty safe assumption I'd say. Just for fun I'd speculate the starting 5 to go like:
Cook
Sulaimon
Winslow
Jefferson
Okafor

This provides a team that probably has little to no issue in the rebounding department as well as a very experienced and defensively strong back court.

Of course there could be the occasional 5 including T Jones and pushing either Sheed or Justise to the bench. Either way we'll have plenty of speed and athleticism especially with guys like Murphy and Ojeleye coming off the bench. We will become pretty small when Okafor goes to the bench barring some substantial improvement from Marshall.

I really think that Tyus Jones will start. I understand Cook is a senior so I'm not sure if we will start alongside the kid or not. I'm not sure what this would do to the starting line-up, because I really am not a fan of the 3 guard starting line-up, but K will start the 5 best players, it's kind of what he does, barring some MAJOR size mismatches that it would create (this moron wanted Seth coming off the bench at the beginning of last season, I'm an idiot). This would eliminate Jones Cook Sheed Winslow Oak. But if the 5 best start, Tyus Jones is going to be in that group. This kid is incredible. It would be premature to put him in the Kyrie/Jason Williams category right now, but he's about as close as a freshman is going to get IMO.

Also, we need to see some major improvements next year in our post entry. Throughout this year the guards have struggled in getting Parker the ball when he is open in the post. Our best post entry passer last year was Curry, and the second was Ryan. This year, they're not going to get as much practice without a dominate big like we had with Mason, but Jabari knows what he's doing down there and needs to get the ball when he's open.

Next year, I think Cook will be our most consistent 3 point shooter, Jones could certainly show out, so I believe that Rasheed will end up being the one who gets bumped from the starting five. I anticipate Jones, Cook, Winslow, Jefferson, and Okafor as the starting five. Even if Hood comes back, I think the starting guards will be QC and Jones with Hood Jefferson and Okafor (Maybe Winslow will be a boss and start at the 3 with Hood at the 4). Again, I'm not a fan of the 3 guard line-up with all 3 guards under 6'5, I think it puts us at a major defensive disadvantage.

Just for kicks and giggles though, this could theoretically be our starting line-up

Tyus Jones
Rasheed Sulaimon
Rodney Hood
Jabari Parker
Jahlil Okafor

I understand that I kind of contradicted by previous statement with Rasheed starting in this scenario, but this would be the most talented line-up we could put on the floor. Also, if Parker and Hood come back, I would be willing to bet a week's salary that Jones starts over Cook. Even if I'm wrong, that line-up is insane any way you shake a stick at it... Off the bench you would have Cook, Winslow, Jones, Jefferson, Ojeleye, Murphy, and MP3... WOW, every single one except Hood and Ojeleye was a McD's All-American, and we've seen what Rodney can do.

What a fun thing to think about, and it's a Hell of a problem to have to have to pick between Cook, Winslow, Sulaimon, and Tyus Jones for your starter. If even one of Hood and Parker comes back, I would anticipate Grayson to red-shirt. He may be more ready to play than Ojeleye next year, but either way, that's going to be a fight for minutes and the kid may as well get 4 years of big time minutes instead of hanging around with 5-8 minutes a game or less.

IF EVERYONE COMES BACK, undefeated talk would run rampant, and expecting a National Championship would be the talk of the town, rather than hoping for a National Championship.

Duke Basketball is fun. These debates over who our starting point-guard will be between the best PG in the recruiting class vs. a senior all-acc PG is a lot more fun, than Oh My God!!! Who is going to start at center!!?? We HAVE NO ONE!!!

[Jim3k]

Justisified.

[tommy]

IF EVERYONE COMES BACK, undefeated talk would run rampant, and expecting a National Championship would be the talk of the town, rather than hoping for a National Championship.

Expecting a national championship? That's what they do in Lexington and what they used to do in Chapel Hill. Not around here. I can't imagine if, say, Coach K ever heard anyone around the program using that kind of arrogant, entitled language -- "expecting" a championship. That person's head would soon lose contact with the rest of his body.

[Dukehky]

Expecting a national championship? That's what they do in Lexington and what they used to do in Chapel Hill. Not around here. I can't imagine if, say, Coach K ever heard anyone around the program using that kind of arrogant, entitled language -- "expecting" a championship. That person's head would soon lose contact with the rest of his body.

Easy there big guy... I didn't mean that the kids would expect a title or feel entitled to one. I said the talk of the town, not the talk of the team. They would be the prohibitive favorite, and by a fairly wide margin I would imagine. I'm also not around the program, so I can say whatever I want, and if everyone came back, I would expect that team to win a national championship, and if they didn't I'd be disappointed with no silver lining, same as in '99.

But if ifs and buts were candy and nuts then every day would be Christmas, cause everybody ain't coming back.

WELCOME TO DUKE JUSTISE WINSLOW!!!! (hadn't said that before)

[johnb]

While I can imagine a lineup that goes 8 deep with NBA players including a few all stars and can then stick them into game scenarios (dunk feast in a silent dean dome, anyone?), I would wait to speculate too openly until our future stars finish high school. I can vividly recall the '99 season in which Brand et al. made most of out opponents look like the Washington Generals and that didn't end especially well.

Even if we completely rock, and there isn't a UConn that (oddly enough) boasted near-equivalent talent, we still wouldn't be favored against the field. Unless they institute a 7 game series for the NCAA (my mouth waters, though I'd soon be unemployed), anything can happen in a single game...

[BD80]

... Unless they institute a 7 game series for the NCAA (my mouth waters, though I'd soon be unemployed), anything can happen in a single game...

May Madness! Bring it on!

[jimsumner]

Nobody is ever even money or better against the field. Not since Alcindor/Jabbar graduated, at least. Nobody. Way too much randomness.

[CDu]

Nobody is ever even money or better against the field. Not since Alcindor/Jabbar graduated, at least. Nobody. Way too much randomness.

Yup. Even if a team was guaranteed to win the first weekend, a 90% favorite in each game the second weekend, and an 75% favorite to win in each game of the Final Four weekend, they'd still not be favored over the field before the tourney starts. And I can't imagine many/any teams with those kind of odds entering the tournament.

[Newton_14]

Nobody is ever even money or better against the field. Not since Alcindor/Jabbar graduated, at least. Nobody. Way too much randomness.

Agree. I learned the hard way in 1999 to never again "expect" a National Title...

That said, if Jabari and Hood return, Duke would have a realistic chance to go undefeated. I just would not expect it or bet money on it.

[throatybeard]

Surely Parker will leave, but is there any realistic chance Hood will stay?

[Kedsy]

Surely Parker will leave, but is there any realistic chance Hood will stay?

Most people in the know (a group in which I am not a member) seem to think he'll probably leave. His moving up to a lottery pick in the mock drafts would suggest those people are probably right.

However, I agree with those who say let's enjoy these guys for as long as they stick around.

[juise]

Most people in the know (a group in which I am not a member) seem to think he'll probably leave. His moving up to a lottery pick in the mock drafts would suggest those people are probably right.

However, I agree with those who say let's enjoy these guys for as long as they stick around.

I see that Rodney's #7 on nbadraft.net and #31 on drafexpress.com (Rasheed is #28 there). I tend to think the former is a bit more accurate.

[Kedsy]

I see that Rodney's #7 on nbadraft.net and #31 on drafexpress.com (Rasheed is #28 there). I tend to think the former is a bit more accurate.

It's probable nbadraft.net has been updated more recently than draftexpress.com. As the season goes on, my guess is Rodney will be moving into the lottery in pretty much all the mocks.

As for Rasheed, unless his numbers go up (he's currently averaging 9.2 ppg and only has 3 assists in 5 games) I suspect he'll be dropping in the mocks. At this point, it would seem a long shot that he'll enter the draft after this season, anyway.

[CDu]

It's probable nbadraft.net has been updated more recently than draftexpress.com. As the season goes on, my guess is Rodney will be moving into the lottery in pretty much all the mocks.

As for Rasheed, unless his numbers go up (he's currently averaging 9.2 ppg and only has 3 assists in 5 games) I suspect he'll be dropping in the mocks. At this point, it would seem a long shot that he'll enter the draft after this season, anyway.

I think that Sulaimon is going to have a tough time getting drafted unless he shows more PG skills. At (maybe) 6'4" and without freakish leaping ability, he's not likely to stick as a SG. So even if he had a good season statistically, I'd have trouble seeing him go any higher than the late-20s.

As for Hood and Parker, both have prototypical size/skills for their NBA positions (SG and SF respectively). I'd expect both to go lottery this year if they decide to enter.

[juise]

It's probable nbadraft.net has been updated more recently than draftexpress.com. As the season goes on, my guess is Rodney will be moving into the lottery in pretty much all the mocks.

I agree that Rodney will be moving up. DraftExpress was updated Tuesday 11/19, so probably didn't account for Rodney's 30-point outburst in a somewhat close game.

[dukelifer]

I think that Sulaimon is going to have a tough time getting drafted unless he shows more PG skills. At (maybe) 6'4" and without freakish leaping ability, he's not likely to stick as a SG. So even if he had a good season statistically, I'd have trouble seeing him go any higher than the late-20s.

As for Hood and Parker, both have prototypical size/skills for their NBA positions (SG and SF respectively). I'd expect both to go lottery this year if they decide to enter.

I agree- Rasheed is a small 6'4" (I am not convinced that he is that tall) and needs to either work on his handle or become an elite shooter. The base is there- the rest is a lot of hard work.

[CDu]

I agree- Rasheed is a small 6'4" (I am not convinced that he is that tall) and needs to either work on his handle or become an elite shooter. The base is there- the rest is a lot of hard work.

I've always compared Sulaimon to Nolan Smith. I think they're probably about the same size (6'3"-ish, with Sulaimon being maybe a bit taller) and build. And I've always seen similarities to Smith in terms of athleticism, style, skill set. Smith was too small to make it as a SG in the NBA, but he has been able to hang around the periphery of the league by developing his PG skills. I suspect Sulaimon will have the same challenges getting to the next level. Hopefully he's ready to meet them.

[throatybeard]

So, I guess here's my question. If Hood is [RS sophomore/junior] lottery talent, why did he mess with the inconvenience of a transfer year? Other than Stansbury getting forced into retirement?

[FerryFor50]

So, I guess here's my question. If Hood is [RS sophomore/junior] lottery talent, why did he mess with the inconvenience of a transfer year? Other than Stansbury getting forced into retirement?

Toil in obscurity on a bad team?

Or star on a perennial power that plays many games on national TV for a coach with lots of NBA ties?

I think sitting out a year will pay off for Hood.

[ForkFondler]

Toil in obscurity on a bad team?

Or star on a perennial power that plays many games on national TV for a coach with lots of NBA ties?

I think sitting out a year will pay off for Hood.

Soooo, Hood would be a one-none-one-and-done? Is there an acronym for that? ONOAD?

[Troublemaker]

I think that Sulaimon is going to have a tough time getting drafted unless he shows more PG skills. At (maybe) 6'4" and without freakish leaping ability, he's not likely to stick as a SG. So even if he had a good season statistically, I'd have trouble seeing him go any higher than the late-20s.

Unless you're talking about just this upcoming draft, then I'd have to disagree. Sheed may be just 6'4" but he has 6'7"-6'8" arms that help boost his effective height significantly. Compared to Nolan, that combination of 1 extra inch of height, 2-3 extra inches of arm length, and slightly more quickness and leaping ability than Nolan makes Sheed an overall much better prospect. Sheed's athletic & long, he can drive, he can shoot, he can defend. Not too much weakness there. He just has to put it all together consistently for an entire season. If not this year, I suspect it'll happen next year, and then he'll be a first round pick when he leaves Duke.

[CDu]

So, I guess here's my question. If Hood is [RS sophomore/junior] lottery talent, why did he mess with the inconvenience of a transfer year? Other than Stansbury getting forced into retirement?

Maybe because he wasn't a lotto pick after his freshman year and he wasn't happy with the mess at Miss St?

[JPtheGame]

Unless you're talking about just this upcoming draft, then I'd have to disagree. Sheed may be just 6'4" but he has 6'7"-6'8" arms that help boost his effective height significantly. Compared to Nolan, that combination of 1 extra inch of height, 2-3 extra inches of arm length, and slightly more quickness and leaping ability than Nolan makes Sheed an overall much better prospect. Sheed's athletic & long, he can drive, he can shoot, he can defend. Not too much weakness there. He just has to put it all together consistently for an entire season. If not this year, I suspect it'll happen next year, and then he'll be a first round pick when he leaves Duke.

I like sheed defensively but I think he has a ways to go before he could be considered a potential offensive contributor at the next level. Long arms or not, he's going to have some trouble getting his shot off. Even at this level his shot is inconsistent and 42% from the floor and 37% from 3 are good, not great numbers even now. Actually, good not great describes much of sheed's current skill set. He's also a little too streaky at this point. I think of him like a less buff version of demarcus nelson. He will do a lot for Duke but he's a tweener size and skill wise. Having said that, man he's fun to watch when he has it going.

[Troublemaker]

I like sheed defensively but I think he has a ways to go before he could be considered a potential offensive contributor at the next level. Long arms or not, he's going to have some trouble getting his shot off. Even at this level his shot is inconsistent and 42% from the floor and 37% from 3 are good, not great numbers even now. Actually, good not great describes much of sheed's current skill set. He's also a little too streaky at this point. I think of him like a less buff version of demarcus nelson. He will do a lot for Duke but he's a tweener size and skill wise. Having said that, man he's fun to watch when he has it going.

Those shooting percentages are from his freshman season. You don't think he's going to improve those numbers over the next two years?

I think you are underrating his offensive talent/skills and how well they will translate to the next level. He's basically everything you would want in a 2-guard minus 2 inches. That will keep him from being a star, but not an effective player.

Put it this way. If anyone wants to bet me that Sheed will not be a first-rounder when he leaves Duke, I'm game. Name the stakes.

[JPtheGame]

Those shooting percentages are from his freshman season. You don't think he's going to improve those numbers over the next two years?

I think you are underrating his offensive talent/skills and how well they will translate to the next level. He's basically everything you would want in a 2-guard minus 2 inches. That will keep him from being a star, but not an effective player.

Put it this way. If anyone wants to bet me that Sheed will not be a first-rounder when he leaves Duke, I'm game. Name the stakes.

I dont have the numbers from his other seasons just yet. We might have seen his floor, we might have seen his ceiling. Im a sheed fan, he will do a ton at Duke and he will be a first rounder. Now, if you want to change the bet to starter or heavy minutes player at the next level, we can talk.

[Troublemaker]

I dont have the numbers from his other seasons just yet. We might have seen his floor, we might have seen his ceiling.

Curious, do you treat other freshmen that way? Most people would say that this long, athletic player, who can shoot, drive, and guard, and who just put together an excellent freshman season averaging 11.6 points/gm on shooting splits of 42%/37%/80% will just continue to get better and better.


Im a sheed fan, he will do a ton at Duke and he will be a first rounder. Now, if you want to change the bet to starter or heavy minutes player at the next level, we can talk.

While I believe Sheed will receive "heavy minutes" in his NBA career, I'm already happy that you have conceded that a player you describe as someone who will have "trouble getting his shot off" at the next level, and also a "less buff version of demarcus nelson"(who went undrafted)... I'm happy that you concede that this player will be a first-round pick. I'm glad we agree there on Sheed.

[lotusland]

Unless you're talking about just this upcoming draft, then I'd have to disagree. Sheed may be just 6'4" but he has 6'7"-6'8" arms that help boost his effective height significantly. Compared to Nolan, that combination of 1 extra inch of height, 2-3 extra inches of arm length, and slightly more quickness and leaping ability than Nolan makes Sheed an overall much better prospect. Sheed's athletic & long, he can drive, he can shoot, he can defend. Not too much weakness there. He just has to put it all together consistently for an entire season. If not this year, I suspect it'll happen next year, and then he'll be a first round pick when he leaves Duke.

I don't see far superior quickness and leaping ability. It's not a knock on sheed but Nolan is plenty quick and athletic. Sheed has been a much bigger contributor as a frosh and sophomore but I would rank Nolan's on the ball defense better his junior and senior year and at least equal to anyone I've seen at duke.

[kAzE]

I think that Sulaimon is going to have a tough time getting drafted unless he shows more PG skills. At (maybe) 6'4" and without freakish leaping ability, he's not likely to stick as a SG. So even if he had a good season statistically, I'd have trouble seeing him go any higher than the late-20s.

As for Hood and Parker, both have prototypical size/skills for their NBA positions (SG and SF respectively). I'd expect both to go lottery this year if they decide to enter.

I think Sulaimon can work out as a 2 guard at the next level, although he would be a much sexier draft prospect if he could expand his game enough to handle point guard duties. The main thing NBA scouts liked about his game last year (and thus pegged him as a late first rounder) was that he was a capable on ball defender and could shoot the 3. He will have a long a career in the NBA if he can do those 2 things at the next level effectively and consistently. The classic "3 and D" guy is a staple of every NBA team. As much as I hate to admit it, Danny Green is probably the quintessential example of this type player. He just does those 2 things better than 80% of the league, which makes him capable of playing starter's minutes for a championship contender.

This year, the long range shot has been a little bit too streaky and his usage has gone way down because of the increased number of ball handlers we have this year. He could leave after this year, but I think it would be wise for him to stay at least 1 more year. I could see him being picked in the 20 to 25 range if he improves his game, especially if he really become a lock down defender. He's a good defender right now, but I wouldn't say he's what he's physically capable of becoming yet. He's actually not the quickest guy for his size, but he makes up for it with length. He just needs to be a smarter defender and not gamble so much. He also tends to shade towards the paint a little too often when the ball is inside, which forces him to have to close out hard on kick outs, many times resulting in an easy blow by from the perimeter. He's also easily frustrated when he makes a bad mistake, and it detracts from his defensive effort sometimes. Once he matures and learns the nuances of good defense, I think he'll be a solid rotation player in the NBA and could easily stick in the league for 10+ years.

[gurufrisbee]

Sulaimon most reminds me of Nolan Smith in that I see him and think he's absolutely the kind of guy who can be a solid role player for a couple years and if he stays til his senior year he can really blow up and show what learning and developing can do for a player who pays attention and works hard and doesn't expect it all to fall in his lap (which isn't a knock on any Duke guys - except maybe Rivers - but happens all the time at other places).

I very much imagine him being the 4th option next year like he is this year. But then when he is a senior I see him blowing up and being an ACC POY type.

[dukelifer]

I've always compared Sulaimon to Nolan Smith. I think they're probably about the same size (6'3"-ish, with Sulaimon being maybe a bit taller) and build. And I've always seen similarities to Smith in terms of athleticism, style, skill set. Smith was too small to make it as a SG in the NBA, but he has been able to hang around the periphery of the league by developing his PG skills. I suspect Sulaimon will have the same challenges getting to the next level. Hopefully he's ready to meet them.

Nolan is 6' 1.5" without shoes - I suspect Rasheed is an inch taller. Rasheed has shown better instincts/vision delivering the ball and a bettee handle than Nolan but he is likely not going to have the opportunity to run the point at Duke. That will be an issue for him.

[dukelifer]

I think Sulaimon can work out as a 2 guard at the next level, although he would be a much sexier draft prospect if he could expand his game enough to handle point guard duties. The main thing NBA scouts liked about his game last year (and thus pegged him as a late first rounder) was that he was a capable on ball defender and could shoot the 3. He will have a long a career in the NBA if he can do those 2 things at the next level effectively and consistently. The classic "3 and D" guy is a staple of every NBA team. As much as I hate to admit it, Danny Green is probably the quintessential example of this type player. He just does those 2 things better than 80% of the league, which makes him capable of playing starter's minutes for a championship contender.

This year, the long range shot has been a little bit too streaky and his usage has gone way down because of the increased number of ball handlers we have this year. He could leave after this year, but I think it would be wise for him to stay at least 1 more year. I could see him being picked in the 20 to 25 range if he improves his game, especially if he really become a lock down defender. He's a good defender right now, but I wouldn't say he's what he's physically capable of becoming yet. He's actually not the quickest guy for his size, but he makes up for it with length. He just needs to be a smarter defender and not gamble so much. He also tends to shade towards the paint a little too often when the ball is inside, which forces him to have to close out hard on kick outs, many times resulting in an easy blow by from the perimeter. He's also easily frustrated when he makes a bad mistake, and it detracts from his defensive effort sometimes. Once he matures and learns the nuances of good defense, I think he'll be a solid rotation player in the NBA and could easily stick in the league for 10+ years.
Green is now an elite shooter- albeit one dimensional - and is a legit 6' 4.5". Rasheed is still young and can develop his game. He has shown flashes but needs to be more consistent.

[kAzE]

Also, is it just me or is Rasheed already starting to show some signs of a Ginobili-esque bald spot on the back of his head? If it is indeed the case, that's unfortunate, but if it causes him to develop other Ginobili type traits, I'm all in.

[JPtheGame]

Curious, do you treat other freshmen that way? Most people would say that this long, athletic player, who can shoot, drive, and guard, and who just put together an excellent freshman season averaging 11.6 points/gm on shooting splits of 42%/37%/80% will just continue to get better and better.



While I believe Sheed will receive "heavy minutes" in his NBA career, I'm already happy that you have conceded that a player you describe as someone who will have "trouble getting his shot off" at the next level, and also a "less buff version of demarcus nelson"(who went undrafted)... I'm happy that you concede that this player will be a first-round pick. I'm glad we agree there on Sheed.

Mr Sulaimon?....kidding.
Its not personal and I have a strong pro-duke bias so I want Sheed to become the greatest player to ever lace em up.
Im not treating him any particular way, Im speculating about a teenagers future. Yes, I expect him to improve but he can be a better player and actual shoot worse based on how defenses treat him. If you're an opposing coach last year and you have to deal with Mase, Kelly, and Seth, you probably don't run too many triangle and two's focused on stopping sheed. As he progresses, he'll be more of a focus and have to hit tougher shots.

The draft is a matter of comparative value and team need, not overall talent. I believe sheed will rise to 1st round status because he has the ability to be a top flight perimeter defender in a time where the rules have made keeping guards out of the lane virtually impossible. Heck, even demarcus nelson would be drafted in this NBA as he had a similar ability. I would say that Seth Curry was a superior overall player to both Sheed and Demarcus but he went undrafted because finding scoring is not much of a problem.

[gurufrisbee]

It's also worth remembering that Smith was often forced into the point guard role because Duke had no better options - Paulus was stinking or Scheyer had not been tried in that role or Irving was hurt. Sulaimon is playing on the same squads with Cook and Thorton and next year Jones too. He actually might have some good point guard abilities already but he's not going to be asked to play there anytime soon.

[mr. synellinden]

Eamon Brennan ranks Justise as the best defender in the 2014 HS class (http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post?id=98861). It's insider, but you can see who's ranked #1.

In a separate article (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/98872/players-to-watch-small-forwards), he says this:

The Blue Devils have ESPN RecruitingNation’s top recruiting class, which includes Tyus Jones, Jahlil Okafor and Grayson Allen, but Winslow might be the most significant recruit in that foursome considering what the program has lost.

I really don't agree with that considering how much we needed a big man and the value of Okafor, but clearly Brennan is high on Justise.

[arnie]

Eamon Brennan ranks Justise as the best defender in the 2014 HS class (http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post?id=98861). It's insider, but you can see who's ranked #1.

In a separate article (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/98872/players-to-watch-small-forwards), he says this:

The Blue Devils have ESPN RecruitingNation’s top recruiting class, which includes Tyus Jones, Jahlil Okafor and Grayson Allen, but Winslow might be the most significant recruit in that foursome considering what the program has lost.

I really don't agree with that considering how much we needed a big man and the value of Okafor, but clearly Brennan is high on Justise.

Brennan may be right- 3-4 years of Winslow vs. 1-yr of Okafor. If Justice is that great a defender, his impact likely greater.

[Furniture]

Brennan may be right- 3-4 years of Winslow vs. 1-yr of Okafor. If Justice is that great a defender, his impact likely greater.

I agree and it's this sort of thing that makes me glad that we didn't get Turner. Another one and done would affect the growth\chances of kids like Semi and Winslow, Marshall etc. These are the kids in 2015/16 that will be around to keep the program at a high level!

[gumbomoop]

Brennan may be right- 3-4 years of Winslow vs. 1-yr of Okafor. If Justice is that great a defender, his impact likely greater.

JMO, Justise is as likely to leave after 1 year as to stay 4. I doubt either happens, but I'd gladly take, right now, a guaranteed 3 years, and not begrudge him the 3-year plan.

[gep]

JMO, Justise is as likely to leave after 1 year as to stay 4. I doubt either happens, but I'd gladly take, right now, a guaranteed 3 years, and not begrudge him the 3-year plan.

And... hopefully graduation too :cool:

[flyingdutchdevil]

Eamon Brennan ranks Justise as the best defender in the 2014 HS class (http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post?id=98861). It's insider, but you can see who's ranked #1.

In a separate article (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/98872/players-to-watch-small-forwards), he says this:

The Blue Devils have ESPN RecruitingNation’s top recruiting class, which includes Tyus Jones, Jahlil Okafor and Grayson Allen, but Winslow might be the most significant recruit in that foursome considering what the program has lost.

I really don't agree with that considering how much we needed a big man and the value of Okafor, but clearly Brennan is high on Justise.

I have no idea what to expect from Justise. He clearly is athletic, great body, and seems NBA-ready (not to mention college ready). But Duke has had players like this before: Gbinije, Nelson, Elliott Williams, Maggette etc. etc.

They are good/great players, but they weren't that ready to contribute defensively as freshman (Williams's last few month not included). I am high on Justise, but I'm trying to curtail my expectations. I really hope he can be the defensive stopper than we need.

[Kedsy]

I have no idea what to expect from Justise. He clearly is athletic, great body, and seems NBA-ready (not to mention college ready). But Duke has had players like this before: Gbinije, Nelson, Elliott Williams, Maggette etc. etc.

Well, my recollection is that Elliot Williams was a very solid defensive players in his one year at Duke, and even 15 years later Corey Maggette has never been known for his defense at all. I don't remember DeMarcus Nelson's D as a frosh, so I can't comment on that (other than to note that Duke's team defense was ranked #3 in the country during Nelson's freshman year, according Pomeroy).

It's also worth noting that of the players you mention, Justise is the highest ranked recruit of the bunch. We won't know his final RSCI for a few weeks, but last summer he was ranked #12 in the interim RSCI, and he appears to have improved his rank in at least a couple recruiting services, so he'll probably stay around #12 or maybe get a little better.

The other players you mention were ranked as follows:

Maggette: #16 (played 17.7 mpg as a freshman)
Nelson: #18 (played 19.2 mpg as a freshman)
E Williams: #15 (played 16.6 mpg as a freshman)
Gbinije: #28 (played 5.8 mpg as a freshman)

Frankly, I don't think Silent G even belongs in this conversation, though. Coming in as the 28th ranked recruit is worlds different from being ranked in the teens like the others were.

Finally, I have seen recruiting guru types hailing Justise as the best defensive player in the high school class. I have no idea if it's true, but if it is then I would think there should be a different level of comparison. It's certainly possible for freshmen to play strong defense -- just ask Aaron Craft, who was one of the best defenders in the country even as a freshman.

[MChambers]

It's certainly possible for freshmen to play strong defense -- just ask Aaron Craft, who was one of the best defenders in the country even as a freshman.
Paging Mr. Battier, paging Mr. Battier. Mr. Brand was a pretty good defender, too.

Going further back, one Grant Hill was a pretty good defender his first year.

[superdave]

Paging Mr. Battier, paging Mr. Battier. Mr. Brand was a pretty good defender, too.

Going further back, one Grant Hill was a pretty good defender his first year.

Set expectations to Grant Hill and proceed directly to the Disappointment Thread to be posted late November!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Well, my recollection is that Elliot Williams was a very solid defensive players in his one year at Duke, and even 15 years later Corey Maggette has never been known for his defense at all. I don't remember DeMarcus Nelson's D as a frosh, so I can't comment on that (other than to note that Duke's team defense was ranked #3 in the country during Nelson's freshman year, according Pomeroy).

It's also worth noting that of the players you mention, Justise is the highest ranked recruit of the bunch. We won't know his final RSCI for a few weeks, but last summer he was ranked #12 in the interim RSCI, and he appears to have improved his rank in at least a couple recruiting services, so he'll probably stay around #12 or maybe get a little better.

The other players you mention were ranked as follows:

Maggette: #16 (played 17.7 mpg as a freshman)
Nelson: #18 (played 19.2 mpg as a freshman)
E Williams: #15 (played 16.6 mpg as a freshman)
Gbinije: #28 (played 5.8 mpg as a freshman)

Frankly, I don't think Silent G even belongs in this conversation, though. Coming in as the 28th ranked recruit is worlds different from being ranked in the teens like the others were.

Finally, I have seen recruiting guru types hailing Justise as the best defensive player in the high school class. I have no idea if it's true, but if it is then I would think there should be a different level of comparison. It's certainly possible for freshmen to play strong defense -- just ask Aaron Craft, who was one of the best defenders in the country even as a freshman.

Do you really see a difference between players ranked nationally between 11-12 and 15-18? Cus I sure don't. Frankly speaking, what does "highest ranked recruit of the bunch" really mean when we're talking about the 10-20 range? You man see it differently, but I don't. I see a difference between players who are incredibly hyped, even moreso than average 1-3 ranked players (your Wigginses, Jabaris, Okafors, and Walls of the world), but not between #12 and #16.

I've also read that Justise is the best defender. But then again, I also read that Matt Jones is the best shooter of the 2013 class. And that didn't really come to fruition last year, did it?

Again, I'd rather be suspect of freshman than put them on a pedestal. I think Justise will be great at Duke, but I'm gonna be patient with him. He's a freshman, after all.

[jimsumner]

I have no idea what to expect from Justise. He clearly is athletic, great body, and seems NBA-ready (not to mention college ready). But Duke has had players like this before: Gbinije, Nelson, Elliott Williams, Maggette etc. etc.

They are good/great players, but they weren't that ready to contribute defensively as freshman (Williams's last few month not included). I am high on Justise, but I'm trying to curtail my expectations. I really hope he can be the defensive stopper than we need.

Gerald Henderson would seem to be a decent analog to Winslow. Ranked # 10, he averaged about 19 mpg as a freshman. Of course, classmate Jon Scheyer, # 28, averaged over 32 mpg.

JJ. Redick was ranked # 11 and averaged just over 30 mpg. Paulus was ranked 13 and played a bunch. So, if we just look at players ranked about where Winslow is ranked, we can find evidence to support a wide range of hypotheses.

Which doesn't settle much of anything.

[Kedsy]

Do you really see a difference between players ranked nationally between 11-12 and 15-18? Cus I sure don't. Frankly speaking, what does "highest ranked recruit of the bunch" really mean when we're talking about the 10-20 range? You man see it differently, but I don't.

Obviously it's a sliding scale, but the further along you are on the scale, (a) it's more likely to be hit and miss; and (b) you play fewer minutes at Duke.

Minutes played isn't a perfect comparison across seasons, because there are many factors that affect playing time, but since the RSCI began, here are Duke players in the #14 to #18 range, and their minutes played freshman season (counting DNPs as 0, except in cases of major injury):

Shavlik Randolph #14 (10.6 mpg)
Ryan Kelly #14 (5.7 mpg)
Elliot Williams #15 (15.2 mpg)
Corey Maggette #16 (17.7 mpg)
Casey Sanders #16 (4.2 mpg)
DeMarcus Nelson #18 (19.2 mpg)
Mason Plumlee #18 (14.1 mpg)

Now here are Duke players in the #10 to #13 range:

Gerald Henderson #10 (19.3 mpg)
JJ Redick #11 (30.7 mpg)
Rasheed Sulaimon #12 (29.2 mpg)
Greg Paulus #13 (32.3 mpg)

OK, sample sizes are small, and there's no reason for #13 to play so many minutes while #14 played so few (actually there is a reason, and I plan to post about it as soon as the new RSCI rankings come out, but that reason isn't necessarily relevant to the discussion we're having now), but the guy with the least playing time in the slightly better ranked range played more minutes than the guy with the most playing time in the worse ranked range.

So with the caveat that the sample sizes are too small for a definitive answer, I'd say yes, I do see a difference. The players ranked 10 to 13 were, on average, more ready to contribute as freshmen than those ranked 14 to 18. Obviously there are exceptions (for example, Joel Embiid was #18 in last year's RSCI), but I guess the point is that there's a lot more variability in the group rated in the upper teens than there is in the group rated close to the top ten.

[FireOgilvie]

It's hard to look at rankings and freshman year impact because the rankings have a lot of factors built into them including things like athleticism and potential, which don't translate to being ready to play basketball right away. Compare Scheyer to Henderson; Scheyer was playing close to his potential in his freshman year, while it took Henderson a few years, but he had a much higher ceiling due to his athleticism. Given that, Winslow seems to really "get it" and I'm guessing he'll be a contributor right away.

[Kedsy]

It's hard to look at rankings and freshman year impact because the rankings have a lot of factors built into them including things like athleticism and potential, which don't translate to being ready to play basketball right away. Compare Scheyer to Henderson; Scheyer was playing close to his potential in his freshman year, while it took Henderson a few years, but he had a much higher ceiling due to his athleticism. Given that, Winslow seems to really "get it" and I'm guessing he'll be a contributor right away.

IIRC, Gerald Henderson also had asthma or some sort of conditioning problem which limited his freshman year minutes as well.

[johnb]

Eamon Brennan ranks Justise as the best defender in the 2014 HS class (http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post?id=98861). It's insider, but you can see who's ranked #1.

In a separate article (http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/98872/players-to-watch-small-forwards), he says this:

The Blue Devils have ESPN RecruitingNation’s top recruiting class, which includes Tyus Jones, Jahlil Okafor and Grayson Allen, but Winslow might be the most significant recruit in that foursome considering what the program has lost.

I really don't agree with that considering how much we needed a big man and the value of Okafor, but clearly Brennan is high on Justise.


A different guy on the same site (Rankin) listed Jahlil as the best incoming rebounder, so it's not like our recruits aren't getting the love from espn.

[jimsumner]

Obviously it's a sliding scale, but the further along you are on the scale, (a) it's more likely to be hit and miss; and (b) you play fewer minutes at Duke.

Minutes played isn't a perfect comparison across seasons, because there are many factors that affect playing time, but since the RSCI began, here are Duke players in the #14 to #18 range, and their minutes played freshman season (counting DNPs as 0, except in cases of major injury):

Shavlik Randolph #14 (10.6 mpg)
Ryan Kelly #14 (5.7 mpg)
Elliot Williams #15 (15.2 mpg)
Corey Maggette #16 (17.7 mpg)
Casey Sanders #16 (4.2 mpg)
DeMarcus Nelson #18 (19.2 mpg)
Mason Plumlee #18 (14.1 mpg)

Now here are Duke players in the #10 to #13 range:

Gerald Henderson #10 (19.3 mpg)
JJ Redick #11 (30.7 mpg)
Rasheed Sulaimon #12 (29.2 mpg)
Greg Paulus #13 (32.3 mpg)

OK, sample sizes are small, and there's no reason for #13 to play so many minutes while #14 played so few (actually there is a reason, and I plan to post about it as soon as the new RSCI rankings come out, but that reason isn't necessarily relevant to the discussion we're having now), but the guy with the least playing time in the slightly better ranked range played more minutes than the guy with the most playing time in the worse ranked range.

So with the caveat that the sample sizes are too small for a definitive answer, I'd say yes, I do see a difference. The players ranked 10 to 13 were, on average, more ready to contribute as freshmen than those ranked 14 to 18. Obviously there are exceptions (for example, Joel Embiid was #18 in last year's RSCI), but I guess the point is that there's a lot more variability in the group rated in the upper teens than there is in the group rated close to the top ten.

Mike Dunleavy was # 26 but he averaged 23 mpg as a freshman. May have had something to do with the fact that Duke had lost six of its nine recruited players from the previous season; but that didn't help the more highly-ranked Sanders see the floor.

If Dunleavy and Scheyer can play that much as freshmen, then shouldn't Grayson Allen get 20-25 or so minutes per game this year?

Like I said before, we can cherry pick this stuff to prove different hypotheses. Too many variables being ignored. IMO.

[Kedsy]

Mike Dunleavy was # 26 but he averaged 23 mpg as a freshman. May have had something to do with the fact that Duke had lost six of its nine recruited players from the previous season; but that didn't help the more highly-ranked Sanders see the floor.

If Dunleavy and Scheyer can play that much as freshmen, then shouldn't Grayson Allen get 20-25 or so minutes per game this year?

Like I said before, we can cherry pick this stuff to prove different hypotheses. Too many variables being ignored. IMO.

Yeah, I do have a much more rigorous analysis ready to post, but I'm waiting for the final RSCI to come out. My theory explains both why Dunleavy and Scheyer played as much as they did and why Grayson Allen won't.

[UrinalCake]

The Blue Devils have ESPN RecruitingNation’s top recruiting class, which includes Tyus Jones, Jahlil Okafor and Grayson Allen, but Winslow might be the most significant recruit in that foursome considering what the program has lost.


I didn't read the article, but I would interpret that statement to mean that Winslow is more similar to Hood and Jabari (i.e. he plays the wing) than any of the other incoming freshmen, thus he'll have a big role in trying to replace their production. But I think that analysis fails to realize how nonexistent our post game was. So while Okafor is not "replacing" anybody, he nevertheless fills an enormous need.

[mr. synellinden]

I didn't read the article, but I would interpret that statement to mean that Winslow is more similar to Hood and Jabari (i.e. he plays the wing) than any of the other incoming freshmen, thus he'll have a big role in trying to replace their production. But I think that analysis fails to realize how nonexistent our post game was. So while Okafor is not "replacing" anybody, he nevertheless fills an enormous need.

That was exactly my point when I wrote above:


I really don't agree with that considering how much we needed a big man and the value of Okafor, but clearly Brennan is high on Justise.

[jimsumner]

Yeah, I do have a much more rigorous analysis ready to post, but I'm waiting for the final RSCI to come out. My theory explains both why Dunleavy and Scheyer played as much as they did and why Grayson Allen won't.

Dunleavy played a lot in large part because Duke had lost three of its top four perimeter players from the year before. Scheyer joined a team that had lost two of its top three perimeter players, including the national POY. PT was available.

Allen is joining a program that returns two upper-class guards, with extensive starting experience, along with a promising rising sophomore. PT harder to come by.

[Kedsy]

Dunleavy played a lot in large part because Duke had lost three of its top four perimeter players from the year before. Scheyer joined a team that had lost two of its top three perimeter players, including the national POY. PT was available.

Allen is joining a program that returns two upper-class guards, with extensive starting experience, along with a promising rising sophomore. PT harder to come by.

I totally agree. The future post I'm being all coy about puts numbers behind it, that's all.

[Li_Duke]

I plotted year end rankings versus average minutes played (averaged over the games for which they were healthy) for all top 40 ranked freshmen (excludes Dawkins) from 98-99 (earliest I can find composite rankings for) to present. There are a few outliers (the ones that jump out are Jon Scheyer and Ryan Kelly), but for the most part, a linear fit looks very reasonable.

Model 1: Predicts minutes per game using composite rankings. We don't have a final RSCI ranking, but using ESPN rankings (1 Okafor, 4 Jones, 15 Winslow, and 21 Allen), we'd expect
Okafor: 26-35 minutes
Jones: 24-33 mintes
Winslow: 17-23 minutes
Allen: 12-18 minutes

Model 2: I also added in approximate positions (big men, wings/forwards, pg). Big men tend to play the fewest minutes, with wings/forwards playing about 5 minutes more on average, and PGs playing 9 minutes more on average. There's definitely interactions going on, but we just don't have enough data to explore that.
Okafor: 20-30 minutes
Jones: 26-36 minutes
Winslow: 17-24 minutes
Allen: 15-24 minutes

My prediction:
Obviously Okafor is going to start and get all the minutes he can handle. But I think the second model is right in that all the minutes he can handle (due to foul trouble/exhaustion) = approximately 30 minutes per game.
Jones has competition in Cook, but stud PGs also tend to get all the minutes they can handle even if there is another stud PG on the roster (see Duhon). I'm predicting more minutes for Jones than Okafor.
I think the 2 models are spot on in regards to Winslow. He's going to get 6th man/borderline starter minutes.
There is no way Allen is going to get 12 minutes per game this year. He just doesn't look physically ready. I think we're going to see another outlier like Ryan Kelly. Hopefully the rest of his career arc will follow Ryan's.

Am looking forward to seeing your numbers, Kedsy. I'm sure my analysis is going to look quite ridiculous in comparison.