MBB: Duke 91, Vermont 90

[hurleyfor3]

Here come the Catamounts! Game is in Cameron on Sunday 11/24 1830 ET. Teevee is EspnU. Discuss here.

[budwom]

Vermont is always a well coached team. They can embarrass more talented but less prepared teams (hello Syracuse).

Having said that, some points: 1) Duke is vastly more talented, and Vermont simply doesn't have the size, speed or skill to keep up this year.
2) Vermont is currently decimated by injuries, having only nine players dress in the last game.

These facts, in conjunction with Duke's less than stellar performance vs. ECU, tell me that it's not going to be a remotely close game.

[DownEastDevil]

Will the students be there or already left for Thanksgiving?

[Native]

Will the students be there or already left for Thanksgiving?

Tuesday's the last day of class before break. I imagine some students will leave for home early, but I'm expecting a better turnout than the last two games.

Friday-Saturday-Monday-Tuesday is a freakin' gauntlet for any Crazie/Wacko. I can barely stand or speak right now from sheer exhaustion.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Tuesday's the last day of class before break. I imagine some students will leave for home early, but I'm expecting a better turnout than the last two games.

Friday-Saturday-Monday-Tuesday is a freakin' gauntlet for any Crazie/Wacko. I can barely stand or speak right now from sheer exhaustion.
Me, too. I can't imagine what it's like for some of the folks in the athletic department. Neither you nor I were trying to get to the NCAA tourney events on campus in other sports, but athletic department officials had their on their to do lists as well. I suspect the band is pretty exhausted today!

[jimsumner]

Tuesday's the last day of class before break. I imagine some students will leave for home early, but I'm expecting a better turnout than the last two games.

Friday-Saturday-Monday-Tuesday is a freakin' gauntlet for any Crazie/Wacko. I can barely stand or speak right now from sheer exhaustion.

Throw women's hoops on Thursday and Sunday into the mix and you've got one tired puppy. I don't think I've ever been to games at Duke on six consecutive days before.

[MChambers]

I'd like to see very strong defense today, with lots of turnovers. Sounds like the Catamounts are offensively challenged, unfortunately. I'm also curious how our bigs do, particularly Amile and Semi.

[Henderson]

Duke is favored by about 23.5 to 24 points. That's pretty close to the spread by which we were favored against ECU. And we saw how that went.

These teams don't come to Cameron just for the paycheck. An upset would make Vermont's season, and to be the first team since St. John's to win as a non-conference opponent against Duke at Cameron would mean even more. For a head coach, it can mean a big contract extension.

We should win this game handily, but there's nowhere to hide when you have a target on your back and a motivated shooter.

I'd like to see good fundamentals out of this game. Rebounding, free throws, and lock down defense forcing lots of UVt turnovers.

Duke by 25.

[gurufrisbee]

Vermount returns all five starters from a team that wins 20+ games every season (and they also have two more seniors coming off the bench - which makes five total for them). That is a TON of experience for a good, winning team. Much like Davidson and ECU, I expect them in the field of 68. This could be a very tough game for the Blue Devils.

[budwom]

Vermount returns all five starters from a team that wins 20+ games every season (and they also have two more seniors coming off the bench - which makes five total for them). That is a TON of experience for a good, winning team. Much like Davidson and ECU, I expect them in the field of 68. This could be a very tough game for the Blue Devils.

And several of them are injured. They only have three frontcourt players now. This will not be a tough game, Vermont is so very small.
(though I agree, they are always well coached and should be competitive once healthy).

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Vermont, starters posted.

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=19905

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) is open. Let's go Duke!

-jk

[slower]

Will definitely have to outscore teams this year, because the defense is absolutely porous. Not exactly confidence-inspiring.

[DukieInBrasil]

Will definitely have to outscore teams this year, because the defense is absolutely porous. Not exactly confidence-inspiring.

I think was the goal, the NCAA wants more high-scoring games. That defense stuff is for sissies!

[slower]

I think was the goal, the NCAA wants more high-scoring games. That defense stuff is for sissies!

You may be right, but it still worries me.

Wait. Dino Gaudio just said Vermont is shooting 67%? That is atrocious defense, no matter how you want to spin it.

[jipops]

This team is going to struggle to win conference games on the road with this defense...home games too.

[burns15]

You may be right, but it still worries me.

That was the worst defensive half I have seen Duke play in a long time. I was hoping we would make some sort of improvements from the ECU game, but I'm not seeing them. If we can't stay in front of Vermont, I don't see how we will stop anyone in the ACC. I love this team's offense, but we won't be going anywhere without defense, and I just don't see it right now.

[ChrisP]

Just awful. Lots and lots of layups and WIDE open shots! Obviously, we have a while to improve but boy, do you we have a looooong way to go on the defensive end.

[Henderson]

Our interior defense has been atrocious. UVt is shooting 67% from the field, and 13 of their 16 field goals have been in the paint. We, on the other hand, are shooting less than 50% but rebounding and shooting free throws well.

[CDu]

You may be right, but it still worries me.

With good reason. Our defense has varied between mediocre and awful this year. Thankfully our offense has been great. Hopefully we get better defensively.

[arnie]

Will definitely have to outscore teams this year, because the defense is absolutely porous. Not exactly confidence-inspiring.

Okafor needs to enroll now. We just don't play post defense or really any defense. Gonna be hard to out score everyone.

[ScreechTDX1847]

Our defense is terrible. Vermont is 1-4 and averages 60 points a game. They are on pace to score 50% more than their average. It's not like its hot shooting either. They are scoring in the paint at will.

[DBFAN]

I am really starting to wonder when this team is gonna show some improvement on Defense. I know the new rules stink, but this is starting to get ridiculous. Not sure how we are gonna beat better teams who can actually play defense.

[KandG]

Someone on Duke get a stop in the second half…please?

[arnie]

Someone on Duke get a stop in the second half…please?

Not likely to happen. Just need to score 100 to win.

[gurufrisbee]

This pressure defense is good if it creates turnovers or forces rushed, bad shots. But level headed, veteran, experienced teams like Vermont are just going to take it and wait for it to break down and leave lanes or people wide open. And without anything close to a shotblocker in there to help on those, it's just easy baskets.

[Henderson]

Good news: We have a lot of offensive rebounds.

[slower]

Someone on Duke get a stop in the second half…please?

Not getting any better, is it? Is it REALLY this easy to score against us? It's amazing, given all the (apparently) premature woofing about what a swarming, lockdown defensive team we were going to be this year. Guys look absolutely lost out there.

[gurufrisbee]

Not getting any better, is it? Is it REALLY this easy to score against us? It's amazing, given all the (apparently) premature woofing about what a swarming, lockdown defensive team we were going to be this year. Guys look absolutely lost out there.

There is a MASSIVE difference between "swarming, lockdown defensive team" and just being really deep and running around a lot on defense.

[kingboozer]

Our interior defense really worries me. When we get more physical teams and the meat of our ACC schedule we are going to be in big trouble unless Amile, MP3, and Hairston step it up in the paint. It is not ok for teams to come into Cameron and push us around in the paint.

[Gthoma2a]

There are just times here that it appears that we aren't playing hard. That is what scares me a little. Pressure D requires effort.

[dukelifer]

A team is shooting almost 70 percent and is losing. Duke is not going to win if they don't cool them down.

[jipops]

Our interior defense really worries me. When we get more physical teams and the meat of our ACC schedule we are going to be in big trouble unless Amile, MP3, and Hairston step it up in the paint. It is not ok for teams to come into Cameron and push us around in the paint.

They aren't pushing us around. They are going right by us and cutters have a free lane. We might as well only send 2 or 3 guys down the floor.

[burns15]

There are just times here that it appears that we aren't playing hard. That is what scares me a little. Pressure D requires effort.

This is just awful. We deserve to lose this game. I have never seen a Duke team with such a lack of passion and desire on the defensive end. I'm kinda waiting for the coaching staff to fire someone up in a timeout, but it doesn't seem to be coming

[kingboozer]

They aren't pushing us around. They are going right by us and cutters have a free lane. We might as well only send 2 or 3 guys down the floor.

I agree with you, I meant it more figuratively than actually.

[g-money]

Our interior defense has been atrocious. UVt is shooting 67% from the field, and 13 of their 16 field goals have been in the paint. We, on the other hand, are shooting less than 50% but rebounding and shooting free throws well.

Yes, this is definitely what is hurting us most in this game. It seems like our interior defenders keep getting caught in no-man's land, leading to drive-and-dishes for layups.

Part of the problem may be the new emphasis on not calling charges. That has been a staple of the Duke defense for decades. Without it, our guys are confused about how to defend.

[slower]

Vermont is always a well coached team. They can embarrass more talented but less prepared teams (hello Syracuse).

Having said that, some points: 1) Duke is vastly more talented, and Vermont simply doesn't have the size, speed or skill to keep up this year.
2) Vermont is currently decimated by injuries, having only nine players dress in the last game.

These facts, in conjunction with Duke's less than stellar performance vs. ECU, tell me that it's not going to be a remotely close game.

In related news, Dewey defeats Truman.

[Henderson]

Vermont is now shooting over 70% from the field, almost all of those baskets in the paint.

[Wildling]

Going to be a long season if they can't defend any better than this.

[kingboozer]

I miss Mason.

[gurufrisbee]

This like when the sixteen year old kids who all want to practice their dunking end up at the gym to play the 35 year old guys who have been playing together every week for over a decade. Experience, taking what the defense is giving you, playing smart, playing together - these things all count for something on the court.

[mattman91]

What do you expect? We are a football school.

[DBFAN]

2 games in a row that should not be close, but yet they are. Not looking forward to playing Against Alabama. I can't believe what I'm seeing out of this team

[burns15]

We are getting it taken to us at Cameron by a mid-major. Just let that settle in.

[kingboozer]

Well this is not a slap the court type game...

[slower]

I believe it's safe to say that the wake-up call has been placed.

[karmacoma]

Someone talk me off the ledge. Is there ANY hope of improvement? 'Cuz to me, the early returns are extremely disappointing. :(

[gurufrisbee]

What do you expect? We are a football school.

I know - they all seem to think someone else is waiting to play defense and they are just the offensive players.

[Eternal Outlaw]

I don't understand how teams are supposed to play defense anymore. Any little touch is a foul defensively but the offensive player can push and basically stiff arm for space. #12 has cleared space all night with his off arm and not been called once.

[burns15]

You gotta expect a smarter play out of Thornton there. That's not a senior play. I'm not understanding why Rasheed does not play more, especially given that he is our best on-ball defender. I would love to see him lock down their PG. Not really understanding K staying with Cook when he is getting beat like a drum.

[CDu]

I don't understand how teams are supposed to play defense anymore. Any little touch is a foul defensively but the offensive player can push and basically stiff arm for space. #12 has cleared space all night with his off arm and not been called once.

You have to move your feet and not use your hands. In other words, you have to work harder.

[gurufrisbee]

I just yelled words about Tyler Thorton that will cost me extra christmas presents now for my kids to forget I said.

When you have no offensive skill and THAT is your defense you should be giving your scholarship money back

[Duke79UNLV77]

We are getting it taken to us at Cameron by a mid-major. Just let that settle in.

A mid-major with a 1-4 record. Can anyone think of a more embarrassing regular season loss in Duke history if I happens?

[arnie]

I don't understand how teams are supposed to play defense anymore. Any little touch is a foul defensively but the offensive player can push and basically stiff arm for space. #12 has cleared space all night with his off arm and not been called once.

That's ridiculous. They are outplaying and outsmarting us. Nobody and I mean nobody makes the play Thornton just did on the 3. Need cut to teach us how to play D.

[Henderson]

I believe it's safe to say that the wake-up call has been placed.

I thought it might be placed at half-time, but no one seems to have picked up the phone.

[CDu]

You gotta expect a smarter play out of Thornton there. That's not a senior play. I'm not understanding why Rasheed does not play more, especially given that he is our best on-ball defender. I would love to see him lock down their PG. Not really understanding K staying with Cook when he is getting beat like a drum.

Sulaimon has played most of this game.

[buddy]

Thornton just made about the stupidest foul I have ever seen. I agree that these guys are all waiting for someone else to play defense. Nobody can stop the ball.

[davekay1971]

I don't understand how teams are supposed to play defense anymore. Any little touch is a foul defensively but the offensive player can push and basically stiff arm for space. #12 has cleared space all night with his off arm and not been called once.

It's called zone defense. The new rules enforcement means offense has a distinct advantage in man to man. Our guys look scared to play defense. They can't make contact. They can't play in your face. And our last two opponents: success with the zone. Either the rules enforcements change, or we learn better how to help, or we start playing zone.

[burns15]

Sulaimon has played most of this game.

It seemed that we have played long stretches without him, especially when we went with Tyler and Dre or Tyler, Rodney, and Jabari. I could be wrong. But I would love to see him be put on the ball more

[Gthoma2a]

I don't know if I should be depressed about our performance or if I should be happy that letting our opponent shoot this high a percentage and rarely contesting a drive, we are able to win games. I don't think, pretty much, any team could shoot much better than we have let them shoot unguarded.

[FerryFor50]

Vermont is shooting 65% from the field. I don't think Vermont has shot 65% from the field this year in practice prior to this game.

[kingboozer]

A PG in the paint like that. At Cameron. Win or lose, this is embarrassing.

[CDu]

Vermont is shooting 65% from the field. I don't think Vermont has shot 65% from the field this year in practice prior to this game.

Lots and lots of layups.

[uh_no]

Lots and lots of layups.

can we take credit for holding them to a lower layup % than they make in the pregame layup line at least????

c'mon people..think positive!

[Eternal Outlaw]

You have to move your feet and not use your hands. In other words, you have to work harder.

Sorry but if they aren't calling push off by the offensive players it really doesn't matter how much you move your feet cause they will just nudge them off course anyway.

I'm not going to say we have played good defense but when we have, too many times they have been able to create space with an illegal arm push.

[FerryFor50]

Sigh... Figures he'd hit that three...

[kingboozer]

Sigh... Figures he'd hit that three...

And that he'd be fouled.

[FerryFor50]

Hey, look! Driving to the basket > shooting threes...

[Gthoma2a]

The one time we play D is when we shouldn't. Should have been no chance for a 4-point play there.

[CDu]

Hey, look! Driving to the basket > shooting threes...

Yup. Drive and get fouled. Drive and get fouled.

[kingboozer]

Yup. Drive and get fouled. Drive and get fouled.

Makes for boring basketball but its time to adapt or die.