In case this weekend wasn't good enough: Belmont 83, uncch 80

[Ggallagher]

Belmont is up 41-34 on the heels. Not a bad effort considering the free throw stats. Belmont is 8-9 from the line while the heels are 9-28.
Maybe the refs can help the heels just a LITTLE more in the second half.

[weezie]

Nice warm-up for the later half of the card, too. Go ROBERT MORRIS Colonials!

[TheOldBattleship]

As fun as it is to watch the Heels lose, I can't help but feel sorry for JP Tokoto when he's on the FT line. It's gotten to the point where he's just chucking it up there without having any clue where it's going. Always sets my teeth on edge to watch a guy with the yips. 2-12 in the first half. Brutal.

[Dukehky]

We know not to overlook the Belmont Bruins. They took it to us twice... Hopefully they come out with a win this time. Also, this team is going to be completely different when Hairston and McDonald return. They're going to be a dangerous team. Not in terms of winning the ACC or an NC, but they can beat anybody on a given night.

Granted, I like them like that better than when they're juggernaut-ish (09)

[DukieInBrasil]

Let's hope the Carowhiners lose! Tokoto is having a truly terrible game at the line, 2-12!!!! UNC would be ahead if he shot a very respectable 10-12, which means he's successfully driving and getting contact, but failing at cashing in. JMM continues to be a lame offensive option with very low efficiency (4-9 FG, 4-8 FT), at this rate i doubt he makes the NBA. Shoulda left when his stock was high after his Fr. year, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Not a single Carowhina player is shooting better than 50% from the stripe, for a team % of, wait for it, 32%!!!!!!
As we saw a couple of years ago, Belmont is a solid team, not great, but they play a good brand of basketball. It appears that the UNC Tarholes either a) completely overlooked the Bruins or b) really suck or c) both, and are totally overrated, i'll be surprised if they're ranked in the top-25 at the end of the year.

[OldPhiKap]

#freePJ #yoloLM #thestruggleisreal

[matt1]

Could this sports weekend really get better?

FRIDAY: Okafor and Jones commit to Duke (likely making us preseason #1 next year) just a few hours before Duke pounds FAU

SATURDAY: Duke football beats Miami, giving us control of the ACC Coastal and a National Ranking

SUNDAY: The Eagles beat the Redskins, moving us into sole possession of 1st in the NFC East

SUNDAY: Belmont beats Carolina???

[OldPhiKap]

Could this sports weekend really get better?

FRIDAY: Okafor and Jones commit to Duke (likely making us preseason #1 next year) just a few hours before Duke pounds FAU

SATURDAY: Duke football beats Miami, giving us control of the ACC Coastal and a National Ranking

SUNDAY: Earth opens, swallowing the Redskins, Eagles and Cowboys.

SUNDAY: Belmont beats Carolina!!!

Fixed it for you. ;-)

[OldPhiKap]

55-44 Belmont

[Newton_14]

Woohoo!! 9F!

[TheOldBattleship]

Wow, this Carolina offense is just brutally bad right now. Paige looks much better, and JMM is doing about what you'd expect, but there's NO floor spacing, and nobody who can really create anything for anybody besides Paige. As everyone's been saying, they may well rack up some rough losses if they don't get MacDonald and Hairston back in the near future. I just don't think anybody thought they would look this bad doing it.

Edit: And of course, immediately after I post this, Belmont makes a bunch of stupid mistakes in a row and the Heels are right back in it. Get it together, Belmont!

[El_Diablo]

Nothing jinxes a UNC loss better than starting a thread on it here at halftime.

[devildeac]

Belmont is up 41-34 on the heels. Not a bad effort considering the free throw stats. Belmont is 8-9 from the line while the heels are 9-28.
Maybe the refs can help the heels just a LITTLE more in the second half.

Get on the FT line and shoot the FT for them:rolleyes:?

Conduct a half time clinic on FT shooting:rolleyes:?

[bbosbbos]

I think this UNC will sit at the bottom of acc without those 2 jerks. Even with them they are a very poor team.

[davekay1971]

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to watch Carolina sweat up until this point, and am only just now picking up the gamecast on ESPN.com...but could someone clarify for me if J. Mann for Belmont is or is not Juwanna Mann?

Thanks.

Off work in 4 hours, Sierra Nevada Narwhal opening in 4 hours and 15 minutes...

[weezie]

Roy is having the vapors with lightheadedness.
There is a truly nasty '2 exits no waiting' virus going around up here in VA.

[OldPhiKap]

Bang! Belmont only down two with 52.9 seconds

[weezie]

horse baloney, stupid hole was out and didn't hit Page

[weezie]

ahahahahaha GREAT!!!!!

[OldPhiKap]

83-80 Belmont!

[davekay1971]

weezie, I think that "2 exits no waiting" virus moved on down to ChapaHeeya...

Time to skip on over to IC...

[OldPhiKap]

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[duke4ever19]

83-80 Belmont!

Yesss!!!

[weezie]

poor Obama family having to sit through oregon state and md. boring.......

[Ggallagher]

weezie, I think that "2 exits no waiting" virus moved on down to ChapaHeeya...

Time to skip on over to IC...

What a brave soul. Can't wait to hear their story on the free throw shooting.

[drcharl]

83-80

[weezie]

ChapaHeeya...


ChapaWAAAHWAAAH.

[davekay1971]

What a brave soul. Can't wait to hear their story on the free throw shooting.

I always scrub down using scalding hot water and bleach before and after any contact with IC. On a day like today, it's worth the pain. Two "fire Roy" threads have already been started and locked.

[FerryFor50]

Awesome!

Belmont won this game despite the 31-19 foul discrepency and 22 to 48 FTA... However, Belmont shoots a TON of 3s and UNC drives a lot, so the foul/FT discrepancy is legit. UNC lost this game at the FT line (sound familiar?) by shooting 22-48. JP Tokoto shot 4-16. Perhaps Hack a Tokoto is in order? ;)

Belmont has a guy named JJ that lit the Heels up for 28 points and 5 threes (also sound familiar?).

JMM shot 11-19 and is playing like the player he should have always been. Belmont is a tough team, so this loss doesn't tell us anything about the Heels other than OH YEAH THEY LOST! :D

[nmduke2001]

I always scrub down using scalding hot water and bleach before and after any contact with IC. On a day like today, it's worth the pain. Two "fire Roy" threads have already been started and locked.

Found this gem on the Belmont thread on IC

"--- ibleeduncblue2 wrote:

gonna be a long season .. as long as ncaa keeps there head up there and I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.s butt !!"

[moonpie23]

Mods on IC are having a real time locking up multiple threads calling for Roy's head….

[brevity]

Nothing jinxes a UNC loss better than starting a thread on it here at halftime.

Not this time. 83-80, Belmont. Their mojo is so bad that even this thread couldn't save them.

[FerryFor50]

Not this time. 83-80, Belmont. Their mojo is so bad that even this thread couldn't save them.

Can't say that people don't get what they deserve... :)

[loran16]

JP Tokoto is now 18/51 from the line for his career. He's a small forward who only shoots 2s.

How?!?!

[Wander]

Duke football > UNC basketball

[devildeac]

I'm sorry that I haven't been able to watch Carolina sweat up until this point, and am only just now picking up the gamecast on ESPN.com...but could someone clarify for me if J. Mann for Belmont is or is not Juwanna Mann?

Thanks.

Off work in 4 hours, Sierra Nevada Narwhal opening in 4 hours and 15 minutes...

Here's something from the Ymm, beer thread to help you prepare:

From 11/2012:

Narwhal-Sierra Nevada Brewing

A shot of whiskey in a dark chocolate malted with a splash of espresso. Quite a brew. I have never seen this before but I think bluebeer, err, bluebear mentioned this several days ago and I found this in Harris Teeter tonight of all places as I assembled a 6er trader for tomorrow. Poured a thick, oily pitch black with a small, tan head. Nose is all chocolate and coffee and the tastes the same with a mild bite from the IBU of 60. This imperial stout packs a wallop at 10.2% ABV and the booziness is not hidden at all. It was $9.50 for the four pack and reasonably priced as I'll have one now, one in the spring, trade/gift one and keep another until next winter. I'd even consider another four pack to age for 2-4 years along with the Black Chocolate Stout collection I've assembled.

From last PM:

Narwhal (2012 edition)

Aged well.

Perhaps a bit smoother and more chocolate-y but darned glad I saved one from last year. Well worth the initial purchase and patience.

[BD80]

Mods on IC are having a real time locking up multiple threads calling for Roy's head….

And hire ...?

calipari?

or go to KU again for Self?

[OldPhiKap]

"UNC invented swagger"

[Reilly]

"UNC invented swagger"

I think it's covered in practice 54 every year ... well, an Alexander Julian brand of swagger ...

[davekay1971]

And hire ...?

calipari?

or go to KU again for Self?

Butch Davis. Why not? What could go wrong?

[davekay1971]

From 11/2012:

Narwhal-Sierra Nevada Brewing

A shot of whiskey in a dark chocolate malted with a splash of espresso. Quite a brew. I have never seen this before but I think bluebeer, err, bluebear mentioned this several days ago and I found this in Harris Teeter tonight of all places as I assembled a 6er trader for tomorrow. Poured a thick, oily pitch black with a small, tan head. Nose is all chocolate and coffee and the tastes the same with a mild bite from the IBU of 60. This imperial stout packs a wallop at 10.2% ABV and the booziness is not hidden at all. It was $9.50 for the four pack and reasonably priced as I'll have one now, one in the spring, trade/gift one and keep another until next winter. I'd even consider another four pack to age for 2-4 years along with the Black Chocolate Stout collection I've assembled.
.

This is a really, really good beer for any of you who go for the stouts. My mouth is watering.

[roywhite]

JP Tokoto is now 18/51 from the line for his career. He's a small forward who only shoots 2s.

How?!?!

Belmont 83 UNC 80 -- ESPN box (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400502680)

This stat might tell a story:
Belmont FT 20-22
UNC FT 22-48

(not that UNC didn't get it's usually friendly whistle-fest)

Tokoto 4-16 from the line....ouch

[Kedsy]

Honestly, without Hairston and McDonald, UNC is comparable to Wake Forest. Depending on when those two come back, the Heels may have a bit of a challenge besting the .500 mark they'd need to make the NIT. It shouldn't be that much of a surprise that they could lose a game like this.

[davekay1971]

Belmont 83 UNC 80 -- ESPN box (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400502680)

This stat might tell a story:
Belmont FT 20-22
UNC FT 22-48

(not that UNC didn't get it's usually friendly whistle-fest)

Tokoto 4-16 from the line....ouch

Well, goshdarn...UNC made as many free throws as their opponent attempted. Wasn't that the magical stat-line the commentators used to throw out at Duke? And here UNC does it despite shooting less than 50% from the line.

[weezie]

.....ibleeduncblue2....

Is a wanker, regardless of what he said, is saying or will ever say. He bleeds wanker. Wanker is his leader.
carolina tar wanks.

[OldPhiKap]

As a casual peruser of IC for years, I cannot recall a more vicious reaction to a loss. Fire Roy (multiple locked threads). Why does Tokoto have a scholarship (removed)?. This is on PJ and LM (allowed). Really, really brutal stuff.

I feel bad for Tokoyo, he was highly rated and has game. But he is getting absolutely fried by the faithful.

#CarolinaWay #EatYourYoung #LinkToRoy'sCall-inShow?

[Ggallagher]

Just checked unc's schedule. Their next game is against Richmond - and Richmond has already beaten Belmont. And to make it a little more fun, the Richmond game is NOT in the deandump.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

That was my first look at the Heels this season and it sure was ugly.

No need to harp on the free throws, everybody knows if you shoot them like that you are likely to lose to anyone.

The lack of breakdown 2g/sf play is glaring. Not just shooting, but spacing, ball handling and passing...there was no flow in the half court. Meeks and James have no room to operate and take advantage of their size, with teams sagging back.

The team I saw tonight is lacking in chemistry. Paige and McAdoo have some, Brice Johnson is getting a better feel for the floor, but everybody else looks lost together.

Much of that is youth, but lots of it seems their individual skill sets don't match up where needed. Like Jame's skills as a low post back to the basket player not meshing with Tokoto's lack of outside shooting and poor entry passing skills. Or James's lack of quickness, court vision not getting Tokoto out in transition.

Belmont took that game. They made the tough shots when it counted an did everything right in the final minutes. Gotta hand it to them.

It's going to be an interesting year to watch this team grow.

[roywhite]

As a casual peruser of IC for years, I cannot recall a more vicious reaction to a loss. Fire Roy (multiple locked threads). Why does Tokoto have a scholarship (removed)?. This is on PJ and LM (allowed). Really, really brutal stuff.

I feel bad for Tokoyo, he was highly rated and has game. But he is getting absolutely fried by the faithful.

#CarolinaWay #EatYourYoung #LinkToRoy'sCall-inShow?

Ole Roy won't stand for this. That dad-gummed Hairston is gonna have some company running gassers.

Tokoto, I don't think we're in Kansas any more.

[weezie]

Sheesh, some poor sap started a thread hoping that Roy's health is ok and none of those dumb yokels posted any kind of support.

They really are the most unwashed bunch of cud chewers on the planet. Not a fiber of class in their collective souls.

[FerryFor50]

That was my first look at the Heels this season and it sure was ugly.

No need to harp on the free throws, everybody knows if you shoot them like that you are likely to lose to anyone.

The lack of breakdown 2g/sf play is glaring. Not just shooting, but spacing, ball handling and passing...there was no flow in the half court. Meeks and James have no room to operate and take advantage of their size, with teams sagging back.

The team I saw tonight is lacking in chemistry. Paige and McAdoo have some, Brice Johnson is getting a better feel for the floor, but everybody else looks lost together.

Much of that is youth, but lots of it seems their individual skill sets don't match up where needed. Like Jame's skills as a low post back to the basket player not meshing with Tokoto's lack of outside shooting and poor entry passing skills. Or James's lack of quickness, court vision not getting Tokoto out in transition.

Belmont took that game. They made the tough shots when it counted an did everything right in the final minutes. Gotta hand it to them.

It's going to be an interesting year to watch this team grow.

The only time the Heels looked good this year was that first half against Oakland. Everything clicked.

Now, nothing is working.

Not that I mind. ;)

[MChambers]

It's going to be an interesting year to watch this team grow.
I'm rooting for a relentless spiral downward, a la 2010!

[gurufrisbee]

Duke

and

whoever is playing NC

which is even better when it's whoever is BEATING NC! Thank you very much Belmont!

(wonder how fast now we see Hairston's suspension suddenly end)

[roywhite]

Sheesh, some poor sap started a thread hoping that Roy's health is ok and none of those dumb yokels posted any kind of support.

They really are the most unwashed bunch of cud chewers on the planet. Not a fiber of class in their collective souls.

Great point. It looked like Roy almost did a face-plant on the sidelines at one point, probably the vertigo thing acting up. Not good.

Yeah, you've got to wonder if Roy won't get a belly-full of aggravation at some point, take stock of his health, and get out of town.

[OldPhiKap]

That was my first look at the Heels this season and it sure was ugly.

No need to harp on the free throws, everybody knows if you shoot them like that you are likely to lose to anyone.

The lack of breakdown 2g/sf play is glaring. Not just shooting, but spacing, ball handling and passing...there was no flow in the half court. Meeks and James have no room to operate and take advantage of their size, with teams sagging back.

The team I saw tonight is lacking in chemistry. Paige and McAdoo have some, Brice Johnson is getting a better feel for the floor, but everybody else looks lost together.

Much of that is youth, but lots of it seems their individual skill sets don't match up where needed. Like Jame's skills as a low post back to the basket player not meshing with Tokoto's lack of outside shooting and poor entry passing skills. Or James's lack of quickness, court vision not getting Tokoto out in transition.

Belmont took that game. They made the tough shots when it counted an did everything right in the final minutes. Gotta hand it to them.

It's going to be an interesting year to watch this team grow.

I think this is a pretty good and honest breakdown. Thanks, Wheat.

I think it is shameful how the "fans" are treating Tokoto. Roy gets paid a lot, he is fair game I guess. Tokoto is fighting to represent his school; the venom being spewed towards him is beyond what WE spew towards Carolina players for Pete's sake.


Sheesh, some poor sap started a thread hoping that Roy's health is ok and none of those dumb yokels posted any kind of support.

They really are the most unwashed bunch of cud chewers on the planet. Not a fiber of class in their collective souls.

Five minutes later, I am still chuckling about this!

[devildeac]

Belmont 83 UNC 80 -- ESPN box (http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400502680)

This stat might tell a story:
Belmont FT 20-22
UNC FT 22-48

(not that UNC didn't get it's usually friendly whistle-fest)

Tokoto 4-16 from the line....ouch

Amazing. Tokoto shot almost as many FT as the entire Belmont team. Did the refs think his middle name was Tyler:rolleyes:?

[DukieInBrasil]

to make it better: UNCheaters lost at home!

[DU82]

(wonder how fast now we see Hairston's suspension suddenly end)

Play 'em. If you don't win the games, you don't risk forfeiting them.

[OldPhiKap]

Sheesh, some poor sap started a thread hoping that Roy's health is ok and none of those dumb yokels posted any kind of support.

They really are the most unwashed bunch of cud chewers on the planet. Not a fiber of class in their collective souls.


Great point. It looked like Roy almost did a face-plant on the sidelines at one point, probably the vertigo thing acting up. Not good.

Yeah, you've got to wonder if Roy won't get a belly-full of aggravation at some point, take stock of his health, and get out of town.

When I am more concerned about Roy's health than the typical IC poster, something is horribly wrong. Not the Carolina Way.

[devildeac]

That was my first look at the Heels this season and it sure was ugly.

No need to harp on the free throws, everybody knows if you shoot them like that you are likely to lose to anyone.

The lack of breakdown 2g/sf play is glaring. Not just shooting, but spacing, ball handling and passing...there was no flow in the half court. Meeks and James have no room to operate and take advantage of their size, with teams sagging back.
The team I saw tonight is lacking in chemistry. Paige and McAdoo have some, Brice Johnson is getting a better feel for the floor, but everybody else looks lost together.

Much of that is youth, but lots of it seems their individual skill sets don't match up where needed. Like Jame's skills as a low post back to the basket player not meshing with Tokoto's lack of outside shooting and poor entry passing skills. Or James's lack of quickness, court vision not getting Tokoto out in transition.

Belmont took that game. They made the tough shots when it counted an did everything right in the final minutes. Gotta hand it to them.

It's going to be an interesting year to watch this team grow.

There might be a reason for that. In fact, about 280-285 of them:rolleyes:.

[devildeac]

Play 'em. If you don't win the games, you don't risk forfeiting them.

Now that is good solid logic;).

[Dukehky]

Hubert, I thought this was what they brought you in for!!!!!???

[Researchc]

I was so happy to see Belmont knock off UNC for more than just the typical reason of watching Ole Roy say Dagum It. I was born and raised in Durham and then moved to Johnson City, TN at the age of 12. The past few years, Belmont and our local university, ETSU, had become bitter rivals. That changed when Belmont switched conferences last year. Even though I was always rooting against them when they were playing ETSU, I was always impressed with their system and the type of players that Coach Rick Byrd recruited. They have always reminded me of Duke, by recruiting high character guys that could shoot the daylights out of the ball and playing shutdown defense. I had talked to my wife about how impressed I was with Coach Byrd's demeanor and the way he treated his players during one of the games. One night after a very close overtime lose to Belmont, my family and I were eating at one of the local restaurants across from ETSU. Coach Byrd and his assistants were eating a few booths away from us. We went up to him to congratulated him on such an amazing game. He was one of the most humble and down to earth people that I have ever met. He was so respectful of ETSU and had nothing but kind words to say about the local fans. After meeting him, I have always pulled for Belmont, expect for the couple of times that they have played Duke. Big win for such a great and always underrated team. GO BELMONT!! (Unless they play Duke....)

[NYBri]

There might be a reason for that. In fact, about 280-285 of them:rolleyes:.

What a weekend!

The boys in Baby Blue are in for a LLLLLLLLOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG season, and I'm a happy guy.

[theschwartz]

This could explain their poor free throw shooting today. I think the Belmont folks figured it out.

link (http://deadspin.com/fan-belts-out-miley-cyrus-song-to-distract-james-mcadoo-1466346523)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I think it is shameful how the "fans" are treating Tokoto. Roy gets paid a lot, he is fair game I guess. Tokoto is fighting to represent his school; the venom being spewed towards him is beyond what WE spew towards Carolina players for Pete's sake.


Tokoto is a sophomore, the kids young. Fans can be pretty unreasonable everywhere.

Everybody knew his shot was poor, especially Roy. He has great athleticsm and was brought in as a project, spot role player until his upperclass years where it is hoped that he will develop that shot and really contribute. Bullocks surprise departure, PJ and LMac's antics are forcing Roy's hand...and Tokoto's struggling. Surprise...

[18258]

Did they lose on a last second shot, I havent seen the highlights yet

[loran16]

More stupidity is that this is yet again one of the "Big name team advance automatically" tournaments that have taken over preseason tourney hoops, so UNC advances and has a chance to face Louisville.

[Karl Beem]

It's a travesty that the refs favored Belmont so, continually giving the tools FT after FT when they obviously couldn't make them. Without all those lost possessions, they win easily.

[devildeac]

More stupidity is that this is yet again one of the "Big name team advance automatically" tournaments that have taken over preseason tourney hoops, so UNC advances and has a chance to face Louisville.

What's wrong with the chance to see L'ville run them out of the building?

[Cameron]

J.J. Mann was just fantastic today. It felt like the days of old, when watching our own J.J. run circles around Tarheel defenders. He got any shot he wanted and from any place he felt like shooting.

We've seen first hand the type of game that Belmont can bring. The scare of a lifetime in '08 NCAAs was enough convincing for me. The close call in Cameron Indoor in 2011 and now the win against North Carolina in Chapel Hill are just further evidence of the coaching greatness of one Rick Byrd. Guy is a master executer and his teams are obvious extensions of him on the court. Sure, they needed a flurry of threes to do it, but they played near perfect basketball down the stretch, outscoring the Heels 13 to 2 to finish the game.

The most enjoyable part of the game was Roy Williams' deadpan face as the clock ticked toward zero. It was as if absolutely nothing was going on up there. He simply realized he'd been outdone.

[loran16]

What's wrong with the chance to see L'ville run them out of the building?

Because Belmont deserves a shot at Louisville instead of Holy Cross.

[howardlander]

My daughter is in the Cedar Ridge High School band, so I had to be at the game in Chapel Hill working one of the concession stands. The amazing thing to me was that there was a steady stream of people leaving starting around 4:00 minutes to go. Not like the Heels were blowing them out. Geez, stay and support your team ...

Howard

[oldnavy]

Now that is good solid logic;).

I am not sure that the option of playing them is available to UNC right now is it?

Boy they sure looked bad.... How much help can PJ and LM bring to this group if they do come back???

[oldnavy]

My daughter is in the Cedar Ridge High School band, so I had to be at the game in Chapel Hill working one of the concession stands. The amazing thing to me was that there was a steady stream of people leaving starting around 4:00 minutes to go. Not like the Heels were blowing them out. Geez, stay and support your team ...

Howard

Hey at least Roy and his starters stayed on the court.... I guess the starters are "blue steel" this year?

[Newton_14]

That was my first look at the Heels this season and it sure was ugly.

No need to harp on the free throws, everybody knows if you shoot them like that you are likely to lose to anyone.

The lack of breakdown 2g/sf play is glaring. Not just shooting, but spacing, ball handling and passing...there was no flow in the half court. Meeks and James have no room to operate and take advantage of their size, with teams sagging back.

The team I saw tonight is lacking in chemistry. Paige and McAdoo have some, Brice Johnson is getting a better feel for the floor, but everybody else looks lost together.

Much of that is youth, but lots of it seems their individual skill sets don't match up where needed. Like Jame's skills as a low post back to the basket player not meshing with Tokoto's lack of outside shooting and poor entry passing skills. Or James's lack of quickness, court vision not getting Tokoto out in transition.

Belmont took that game. They made the tough shots when it counted an did everything right in the final minutes. Gotta hand it to them.

It's going to be an interesting year to watch this team grow.

If they get PJ and LMAC back, do you think that rights the ship or only makes them marginally better than they are now? I never understood the high ranking, even with the expectation that those two would be available, but without them this team appears to be in line to struggle to finish above .500. No playmakers and no shooters = no space for the bigs to get anything done.

[BD80]

Will this be considered a "bad loss?"

Oh wait, doesn't matter. If they win half their games, they're in the NIT, no matter how bad the losses.

[OldPhiKap]

If they get PJ and LMAC back, do you think that rights the ship or only makes them marginally better than they are now? I never understood the high ranking, even with the expectation that those two would be available, but without them this team appears to be in line to struggle to finish above .500. No playmakers and no shooters = no space for the bigs to get anything done.

Roy's teams tend to start poorly but finish stronger. Unfortunately.

[oldnavy]

Do they stay in the top 25 this week?

[OldPhiKap]

Do they stay in the top 25 this week?

I would think so -- but they have some tough games coming up.

[NYBri]

Do they stay in the top 25 this week?

I'm sure they will. Maybe gain a spot or two. Baby Blue blind.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

If they get PJ and LMAC back, do you think that rights the ship or only makes them marginally better than they are now? I never understood the high ranking, even with the expectation that those two would be available, but without them this team appears to be in line to struggle to finish above .500. No playmakers and no shooters = no space for the bigs to get anything done.

I'm on record as thinking PJ is sitting out the first semester, but I don't know any facts about the cars, or anything. If he was really stupid it could be the year.

With PJ this would be a very dangerous team. He'd bring attitude and scoring...he'd spread the floor and the inside would open up...UNC would immediately toughen up... and guys could play to their strengths, not out of position as we are seeing now.

I really like Paige as a PG. He has the most complete game of all UNC players. He's an all ACC caliber player.

McAdoo is a matchup nightmare and is a high quality player. He doesn't do well creating for himself, just not in his make up. But with a core around him of players that could pressure defenses in their own right opening things up, he will produce big time. Paige and a little bit of Brice Johnson are the only ones offering those traits at the moment.

What is a concern is I didn't see the basketball IQ that I'd like. Being a player...having a feel for pace, when to push...recognizing the situation. All the things that let a less talented team like Belmont, who is full of "players" even if short on high level talent, beat a more talented group of individual players.

Paige has "it". He's a player. Everybody else on UNC tonight was relying on a specialized talent and hasn't developed their games completely enough to translate their skills into helping their teammates games.., and that's not good in a team sport.

[rsvman]

Sheesh, some poor sap started a thread hoping that Roy's health is ok and none of those dumb yokels posted any kind of support.

They really are the most unwashed bunch of cud chewers on the planet. Not a fiber of class in their collective souls.

[squidward voice] Oh, please. They have no souls. [/squidward voice]

[SoCalDukeFan]

Did anyone watch? What happened?

Let me get this straight

1. Duke signs the number 1 big man recruit and the number 1 pg recruit on Friday.
2. Duke beats Miami by 18 in football on Saturday.
3. UNC-CH loses to Belmont on Sunday.

What a weekend.

SoCal

[JasonEvans]

I'm on record as thinking PJ is sitting out the first semester, but I don't know any facts about the cars, or anything. If he was really stupid it could be the year.

With PJ this would be a very dangerous team. He'd bring attitude and scoring...he'd spread the floor and the inside would open up...UNC would immediately toughen up... and guys could play to their strengths, not out of position as we are seeing now.

I really like Paige as a PG. He has the most complete game of all UNC players. He's an all ACC caliber player.

McAdoo is a matchup nightmare and is a high quality player. He doesn't do well creating for himself, just not in his make up. But with a core around him of players that could pressure defenses in their own right opening things up, he will produce big time. Paige and a little bit of Brice Johnson are the only ones offering those traits at the moment.

What is a concern is I didn't see the basketball IQ that I'd like. Being a player...having a feel for pace, when to push...recognizing the situation. All the things that let a less talented team like Belmont, who is full of "players" even if short on high level talent, beat a more talented group of individual players.

Paige has "it". He's a player. Everybody else on UNC tonight was relying on a specialized talent and hasn't developed their games completely enough to translate their skills into helping their teammates games.., and that's not good in a team sport.

I want to praise Wheat for coming here on what is clearly a tough night for Carolina fans and bringing some honest and thoughtful analysis to the table. His thoughts on the Heels are well-placed and seem to be a decent analysis of the team. He has had to wade through all our gloating to post his stuff and he has been nothing but a gentleman in doing so.

So, it is with great pain that I say to him...

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Belmont!!!! Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

-Jason "Sorry man... I could not help myself ;) " Evans

[miramar]

Great excuse:

After Mann’s shot went in, Williams elected not to call a timeout. That has been his long-standing philosophy in those kinds of circumstances – trailing by a point with more than seven seconds to play. Williams hoped UNC could execute a play before Belmont had set its defense.

Instead, though, the Tar Heels appeared to panic. Johnson wanted to call a timeout. Paige, meanwhile, wanted to push the pace. He said was there was “confusion.” The possession ended when Tokoto rushed an off-balance shot near the baseline.

“We haven’t really worked on that very much,” Paige said, referring to UNC’s limited practice of similar end-of-game situations. “It was kind of new, and in the heat of the moment you kind of forget things like that.”

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/11/17/3381809/belmont-stuns-unc-with-83-80-win.html#storylink=cpy

How hard can it be to dribble the ball down the court and take a decent shot in fourteen seconds? This chaos reminds me of the UNC-Kentucky game two years ago where UK takes a one point lead with sixteen seconds to go IIRC, and then UNC walks the ball up the court, then somebody ends up taking a desperation shot with maybe six seconds to go and has it blocked, and then they don't foul so time runs out.

[ncexnyc]

Honestly, did Wheat just play the Bullock card?

He was doing really good until he tried to slip that one in. Sorry, but if Ol' Roy didn't have any idea that Reggie was leaving well, that's like saying he had no clue about LDII or the Wear twins, or for that matter any of the rides his young men were driving around in.

[Billy Dat]

I haven't seen anyone, aside from the people commenting in game, stress what an epic meltdown this loss was. The Heels had this game salted away, they had the ball up 6 with a minute left. They played horrendous defense in the last minute. Granted, Belmont had a portfolio of scripted 3-point shot quick hitters, and they went 3 for 3 on them, but they also shot them with no one in their face. The were popping off basic screens, not like they were springing guys off 2-3 picks and fake screening action on one side. Granted, they missed a historic number of foul shots, but this game was over with a minute left. They totally coughed it up. Good on Belmont for hanging tough.

[DevilFalcon]

A friend of mine has season tickets at chapel hill. I've turned him down on going multiple times. I gave in and was going to go to this game until something came up yesterday. Oh how I wish I had gone!

[SoCalDukeFan]

The problem with UNC-CH basketball is Calipari at KY. He gets the guys that would have gone to UNC-CH.

Now you understand. I guess Cal recruited all of the good free throw shooters so Roy had to settle for guys that would go 22-48.

I guess maybe we should not hate Cal. Or maybe the Inside Carolina folks should rethink.


SoCal

[brevity]

Gotta hand it to them.

Yes, that was Carolina's endgame strategy against Belmont.

[CatDevil]

It's Like Christmas came early at my house. Hope Santa keeps on giving!!!

[Son of Jarhead]

It must be extra painful that the guy who buried the key threes was named JJ.

[fan345678]

22-of-48: The number of AFAM classes that actually exist
or...wow, did they have a tutor shooting for them?
or...something about free throws being easier than free classes

[SoCalDukeFan]

It's a travesty that the refs favored Belmont so, continually giving the tools FT after FT when they obviously couldn't make them. Without all those lost possessions, they win easily.

On the road they won't have to shoot as many free throws.

22 for 48.

SoCal

[Olympic Fan]

I'm sure most Duke fans know the difference after the two tough games we've had with Belmont in recent years ... but ESPN screwed the pooch with their post-game converage of Sunday's upset. They posted a graphic about how it was UNC's first home loss to an in-state opponent other than Duke since Wake Forest beat them in in the Dean Dome in 2010.

Of course, we all know that Belmont is in Tennessee ...

[FerryFor50]

Great excuse:

After Mann’s shot went in, Williams elected not to call a timeout. That has been his long-standing philosophy in those kinds of circumstances – trailing by a point with more than seven seconds to play. Williams hoped UNC could execute a play before Belmont had set its defense.

Instead, though, the Tar Heels appeared to panic. Johnson wanted to call a timeout. Paige, meanwhile, wanted to push the pace. He said was there was “confusion.” The possession ended when Tokoto rushed an off-balance shot near the baseline.

“We haven’t really worked on that very much,” Paige said, referring to UNC’s limited practice of similar end-of-game situations. “It was kind of new, and in the heat of the moment you kind of forget things like that.”

Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/11/17/3381809/belmont-stuns-unc-with-83-80-win.html#storylink=cpy

How hard can it be to dribble the ball down the court and take a decent shot in fourteen seconds? This chaos reminds me of the UNC-Kentucky game two years ago where UK takes a one point lead with sixteen seconds to go IIRC, and then UNC walks the ball up the court, then somebody ends up taking a desperation shot with maybe six seconds to go and has it blocked, and then they don't foul so time runs out.

How do you not work on end of game situations in practice? Do you just believe you will go undefeated and blow everyone out? Or that games will never end?

[plimnko]

How do you not work on end of game situations in practice? Do you just believe you will go undefeated and blow everyone out? Or that games will never end?

DADGUM!! can't work on everything....just ask roy

[oldnavy]

How do you not work on end of game situations in practice? Do you just believe you will go undefeated and blow everyone out? Or that games will never end?

Yes, besides Roy would have had to have called a time out to set up something, and we all know how he feels about doing that.

Hey, you don't get voted as most overrated coach by your peers for nothing, it takes work!

[OldPhiKap]

How do you not work on end of game situations in practice? Do you just believe you will go undefeated and blow everyone out? Or that games will never end?

The end of game plan is, get the ball to PJ. Roy only has one plan, as we know.

[CharlestonDevil]

My daughter is in the Cedar Ridge High School band, so I had to be at the game in Chapel Hill working one of the concession stands. The amazing thing to me was that there was a steady stream of people leaving starting around 4:00 minutes to go. Not like the Heels were blowing them out. Geez, stay and support your team ...

Howard

Roy must've guilted them in to staying 3-4 minutes longer than usual

[roywhite]

Yes, besides Roy would have had to have called a time out to set up something, and we all know how he feels about doing that.

Hey, you don't get voted as most overrated coach by your peers for nothing, it takes work!

Just wondering, is a coach who has a serious vertigo episode in the second half, to the point of nearly losing his balance all together and toppling over, really sharp at the end of the game?

[FerryFor50]

Just wondering, is a coach who has a serious vertigo episode in the second half, to the point of nearly losing his balance all together and toppling over, really sharp at the end of the game?

Has he ever had a vertigo spell when his team was playing well?

[BD80]

How do you not work on end of game situations in practice? Do you just believe you will go undefeated and blow everyone out? Or that games will never end?

He was working with the team on shooting free-throws! ol' roy has "coached em up" to nearly 50% !

[75Crazie]

Just wondering, is a coach who has a serious vertigo episode in the second half, to the point of nearly losing his balance all together and toppling over, really sharp at the end of the game?
Speaking as one who has similar vertigo issues, just how the heck does it affect either mental or physical sharpness? There are plenty of valid reasons to hate on Williams, but this one is pure bunkum.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Just wondering, is a coach who has a serious vertigo episode in the second half, to the point of nearly losing his balance all together and toppling over, really sharp at the end of the game?

It's an issue. At one point he had assistant C.B.McGrath calling out the plays.

Bottom line is Belmont simply outplayed that young Heels team in the final minutes. To harp on what UNC didn't do does not give enough credit to what Belmont did. They made some crunch time deep NBA 3's, stayed focused, and that one injured kid recovered and made a great defensive play on the ball when Paige was driving to get the TO in the final seconds.

They won that game, more than UNC lost it.

Note: I just read where Roy had every player shoot over 200 FT's in practice last week and everyone on the team shot over 80%, including Tokoto.

A coach can only do so much.

[roywhite]

Speaking as one who has similar vertigo issues, just how the heck does it affect either mental or physical sharpness? There are plenty of valid reasons to hate on Williams, but this one is pure bunkum.


It's an issue. At one point he had assistant C.B.McGrath calling out the plays.

Bottom line is Belmont simply outplayed that young Heels team in the final minutes. To harp on what UNC didn't do does not give enough credit to what Belmont did. They made some crunch time deep NBA 3's, stayed focused, and that one injured kid recovered and made a great defensive play on the ball when Paige was driving to get the TO in the final seconds.

They won that game, more than UNC lost it.

Sorry, not intended as hating on Ole Roy and I appreciate 75Crazie's input on something I don't know much about, but was just speculating.

I enjoy picking at Ole Roy, but certainly believe he is very deserving of his HOF status.

[UrinalCake]

First off, we're not really in a position to be making fun of another team's free throw shooting, as our own team has basically lost a game at the line. Obviously it was a completely different caliber of opponent, but free throws are free throws.

I'm really surprised to hear how unprepared the UNC players were for that last possession. I understand they're having to adapt to not having PJ and McDonald, but it's been two weeks (and honestly they should have been preparing for this all summer). UNC fans can write this loss off as a fluke, but they also struggled pretty mightily against Holy Cross. Not looking good for them 8-)

[DukieInKansas]

I'm sure most Duke fans know the difference after the two tough games we've had with Belmont in recent years ... but ESPN screwed the pooch with their post-game converage of Sunday's upset. They posted a graphic about how it was UNC's first home loss to an in-state opponent other than Duke since Wake Forest beat them in in the Dean Dome in 2010.

Of course, we all know that Belmont is in Tennessee ...

These are the same folks that had Semi Ojeleye listed as being from Ottawa, Canada - which is a pretty long commute from his hometown of Ottawa, Kansas. I suggested to them that a geography class might be helpful.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

From an IC article....

“I’ve always had the philosophy that if the other team scores to take the lead, if it's more than seven seconds, we don’t call a timeout, we attack right then because we’ve got the ball in the open court,” Williams said. “I wanted Marcus to go get the ball, but I haven’t practiced it enough. We didn’t execute at that point and that’s my fault.”

"Panic reigned over poise in those final seconds. Johnson threw the ball into Luke Davis, not Paige, and the backup point guard passed ahead to J.P. Tokoto down the left sideline. The sophomore wing drove to the left elbow before bobbling the ball and ultimately shooting a turnaround with five seconds left."

My take...

Not calling a time out is a standard practice in that situation for many coaches.....So what I see is a coach taking responsibility for the players when a young team failed to execute. They've practiced it, just not enough, according to Roy.

And it's hard to blame him, it just is what it is.

We had an inexperienced sophomore passing to a fourth string option, passing to a 3rd string non shooter in the final seconds. And he didn't have any real option but have those guys on the floor.

Just how much time is he expected to have to coach Davis, Johnson and Tokoto in that situation to the point they can execute it? With those guys it could take all season :)

[OldPhiKap]

From an IC article....

“I’ve always had the philosophy that if the other team scores to take the lead, if it's more than seven seconds, we don’t call a timeout, we attack right then because we’ve got the ball in the open court,” Williams said. “I wanted Marcus to go get the ball, but I haven’t practiced it enough. We didn’t execute at that point and that’s my fault.”

"Panic reigned over poise in those final seconds. Johnson threw the ball into Luke Davis, not Paige, and the backup point guard passed ahead to J.P. Tokoto down the left sideline. The sophomore wing drove to the left elbow before bobbling the ball and ultimately shooting a turnaround with five seconds left."

My take...

Not calling a time out is a standard practice in that situation for many coaches.....So what I see is a coach taking responsibility for the players when a young team failed to execute. They've practiced it, just not enough, according to Roy.

And it's hard to blame him, it just is what it is.

We had an inexperienced sophomore passing to a fourth string option, passing to a 3rd string non shooter in the final seconds. And he didn't have any real option but have those guys on the floor.

Just how much time is he expected to have to coach Davis, Johnson and Tokoto in that situation to the point they can execute it? With those guys it could take all season :)

I generally agree with not taking a time out as an initial matter, but given the personnel he had out there (as you state) doesn't this require a time out and coaching? Get the ball over midcourt, call a time out with plenty of time, and draw up a play? UNC had three time outs IIRC.

If you haven't practiced it and you do not have experienced players out there, I think you need to take a risk and actually coach them instead of just seeing what happens. JMO.

[Potato Head]

Note: I just read where Roy had every player shoot over 200 FT's in practice last week and everyone on the team shot over 80%, including Tokoto.

A coach can only do so much.

It's amusing to me when people complain about bad foul shooting with "why don't they just practice free throws more often?". Every player has shot enough free throws in their lives to where they should all be 75-80+% shooters, but they're not because it's more mental than physical at this level.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I generally agree with not taking a time out as an initial matter, but given the personnel he had out there (as you state) doesn't this require a time out and coaching? Get the ball over midcourt, call a time out with plenty of time, and draw up a play? UNC had three time outs IIRC.

If you haven't practiced it and you do not have experienced players out there, I think you need to take a risk and actually coach them instead of just seeing what happens. JMO.

In hindsight, I'll agree and say that would have probably been the best move.

But as they say...hindsight is always 20-20.

[Bob Green]

Ah, it's the annual "Stick a fork in Carolina, they're done" thread on DBR. We got this one going early this season. If one only read DBR, you would think Carolina had been to 14 straight NITs.

It's early, perhaps they will stink all year, but I bet they figure it out by January. The loss to Belmont is one game so I'll contain my enthusiasm for now. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I enjoy watching Duke win a lot more than watching Carolina lose.

[chaosmage]

Just how much time is he expected to have to coach Davis, Johnson and Tokoto in that situation to the point they can execute it? With those guys it could take all season :)

Quoting it not directed at Wheat, but at the UNX faithful in general; I remember a time when celebration and fanfare reigned over Chapel Hill for recruiting this young man. Now some of the stuff I've seen on twitter and IC... is it any wonder Drew and the Wears left?

Not trying to blow things out of proportion, but by all the gods, this is ridiculous.

[OldPhiKap]

Ah, it's the annual "Stick a fork in Carolina, they're done" thread on DBR. We got this one going early this season. If one only read DBR, you would think Carolina had been to 14 straight NITs.

It's early, perhaps they will stink all year, but I bet they figure it out by January. The loss to Belmont is one game so I'll contain my enthusiasm for now. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I enjoy watching Duke win a lot more than watching Carolina lose.

And I will add what most of us would readily agree upon: Belmont is a very well-coached team and is a real program (much like Davidson). Their kids have played in big-time games and they are not intimidated.

You can't shoot free throws like that and expect to win. (A lesson I hope we take seriously as well -- not a great start in that department for Duke). Carolina put itself in a bad position by missinng all of those free throws, and Roy was essentially asleep at the switch when they had an opportunity to snatch the victory.

Congrats to Belmont, and UNC is far from done. But if the Holy Cross and Belmont games truly represent the state of their current roster, well -- Roy is going to have a long year.

[johnb]

I couldn't resist. A dozen quotes from Inside Carolina:

As for '10... UNC's run to the NIT finals was a tougher draw than duke's NCAA.

Yes mistakes were made by coach no doubt but bottom line look at the cards that has been dealt to him.

Just curious, I'm seeing a lot more anti-Roy rhetoric each and each year, and eventually it's going to be more than just the lunatic message board fringe.

Fleetwood Mac and the Moody Blues: Both groups early on lost their lead sings but had good role players, drummers, bass, keyboard, etc. The Fleetwood Mac got Buckingham and Nicks and the Moody Blues got Justin Haywood and they went onto stardom. I see our current team in the same way.

Mac had a solid rep then pulled in a dynamic duo that just upped their game overnight. Hmmm... What local group has just signed a dynamic duo and said duo upped the local groups game overnight? I am just mad that the okafor jones thread was locked.

One issue that we rarely talk about is the performance of our players in the NBA. We no longer produce All-Stars and that has to affect our recruiting. TL, HB, and DG are good but we have no more star power and our coach isn't running Team USA.

Sorry but we're not even close to being a top five program anymore.

I know I'm going to get bashed, but UNC is a top 5 program ! Roy is running and coaching it like a mid-major !

26 missed free throws has to be a record.

I am a little concerned because I don't think his episodes are in any way normal. I hope it's nothing serious. He's the only coach in the game that swoons on a regular basis

QUOTES FROM THIS MORNING:

The Tar Heels appeared to panic. Johnson wanted to call a timeout. Paige, meanwhile, wanted to push the pace. He said there was “confusion.” “We haven’t really worked on that very much,” said Paige, referring to UNC’s limited practice of similar end-of-game situations. “It was kind of new, and in the heat of the moment you kind of forget things like that.”

Next year Belmont Abbey is replacing Belmont on the schedule.

Positives from the Game: James Michael may have had his best game in a Tar Heel uniform. 27 points, 13 rebounds, and made it to the free throw line 19 times! His back-up Brice Johnson almost posted a double-double with 14 points and 9 rebounds in 22 minutes of play. Brice Johnson should have a serious chance to be a starter at the 5 in the upcoming games, shame on Roy if he doesn't notice that imo. JP Tokoto got to the free throw line 16 times. Shows us he was aggressive with the ball in his hands. After being down in the second half by 10, we fought back to take the lead by going on a big run. We out-rebounded them by 15.

Positives: Nobody burst into flames or caught a flesh-eating virus.

on a different note: Historical percentage of McDonald’s A-A’s (hint: UNC and Duke are at the top): http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1410&t=12336020

[Henderson]

Takeaways from the Belmont game that interested me:

1. 27 pts. for JMM. Like so many others (including on IC), I think he's underperformed his hype so far. But the guy has skills. It'd be a mistake to write him off. If he had a better bigger team behind him, he'd be better. Same with Marcus Paige. This guy is good, and we'll have to account for him at least twice this year. But their team lost, and Belmont won.

2. Carolina and Belmont were close in overall shooting percentage (45% to 48% in favor of Carolina), but Carolina was horrible from 3 on offense and couldn't defend the 3 on defense. Belmont was 15-37 (40%) and Carolina was 2-7 (29%). Belmont won.

3. Carolina outrebounded Belmont 44-29. And Belmont won.

4. Carolina was called for a lot fewer fouls. 31-19. And they lost. I've suggested in the past that I think refs try to even the fouls out, but geez. Still, Belmont won.

5. Belmont was 20-22 from the line. UNC-CH was 22-48. Belmont didn't beat UNC on the line; UNC collapsed. But if UNC had just shot 70% from the line (all else equal and not counting 1-1s potentials), they would have scored more than 10 more points. Heck, they could have shot 60% from the line and won the game. But Belmont won.

Think I'll wander over to IC and see how things are going....

[Duvall]

Takeaways from the Belmont game that interested me:

1. 27 pts. for JMM. Like so many others (including on IC), I think he's underperformed his hype so far. But the guy has skills. It'd be a mistake to write him off. If he had a better bigger team behind him, he'd be better. Same with Marcus Paige. This guy is good, and we'll have to account for him at least twice this year. But their team lost, and Belmont won.


McAdoo has skills? What are said skills, and will we see them when UNC finally plays a top 100 team this season?

[Billy Dat]

And I will add what most of us would readily agree upon: Belmont is a very well-coached team and is a real program (much like Davidson). Their kids have played in big-time games and they are not intimidated.

You can't shoot free throws like that and expect to win. (A lesson I hope we take seriously as well -- not a great start in that department for Duke). Carolina put itself in a bad position by missinng all of those free throws, and Roy was essentially asleep at the switch when they had an opportunity to snatch the victory.

Congrats to Belmont, and UNC is far from done. But if the Holy Cross and Belmont games truly represent the state of their current roster, well -- Roy is going to have a long year.

The above, they were missing two of their best players, and, again, this game was essentially over. Even missing that insane number of free throws, they had the ball up 6 with about 90 seconds left. They were up 8 with the ball under 3 minutes left. The game was over...but it wasn't. Granted, a game like that can send teams into a tailspin, but it shouldn't. Once they are back to full strength, they'll be solid, but they are certainly not a vintage Heel team. Considering the solid recruiting classes Roy is working on, it's likely just a cyclical trough, but it was disturbing to see his light-headed spells. Between the vertigo, the kidney cancer scare, and all the off court insanity, the dude has been through quite a gauntlet the past few years.

[Duvall]

The above, they were missing two of their best players, and, again, this game was essentially over. Even missing that insane number of free throws, they had the ball up 6 with about 90 seconds left. They were up 8 with the ball under 3 minutes left. The game was over...but it wasn't. Granted, a game like that can send teams into a tailspin, but it shouldn't. Once they are back to full strength, they'll be solid, but they are certainly not a vintage Heel team.

What makes you think UNC isn't at full strength now?

[Billy Dat]

What makes you think UNC isn't at full strength now?

Indeed, I guess I assume that with the seaming lack of teeth in any NCAA decision, I am frankly shocked that Hairston and McDonald haven't been playing yet.

If those two are out much longer, it will be really rough on the Heels. There are some nice pieces, I particularly like Paige, Johnson and McAdoo, but they lack tested leadership and the defense down the stretch yesterday was just awful. I guess I chalk that up to them being in a full on panic.

[Henderson]

McAdoo has skills? What are said skills, and will we see them when UNC finally plays a top 100 team this season?

Well, I was thinking that scoring 27 points, grabbing 13 rebounds, recording 3 steals and a block might suggest some level of skill. He's averaging about 19 pts and 9 rebounds a game.

[jimsumner]

Well, I was thinking that scoring 27 points, grabbing 13 rebounds, recording 3 steals and a block might suggest some level of skill. He's averaging about 19 pts and 9 rebounds a game.

Excluding the missed free throws, McAdoo played very, very well yesterday, with a physical toughness we haven't always seen from him.

[Duvall]

Well, I was thinking that scoring 27 points, grabbing 13 rebounds, recording 3 steals and a block might suggest some level of skill. He's averaging about 19 pts and 9 rebounds a game.

...against Oakland, Holy Cross and Belmont.

I agree that McAdoo would be a decent player in the OVC or Horizon League. Let's see him against decent competition before we throw out his abundant past evidence of mediocrity.

[Kedsy]

There are some nice pieces, I particularly like Paige, Johnson and McAdoo, but they lack tested leadership and the defense down the stretch yesterday was just awful.

Tell me, do you like those three more or less than Codi Miller-McIntyre, Devin Thomas, and Travis McKie?

Seriously, Wake probably doesn't have an analog to Hicks off the bench, and their backup big men lack the girth of their Carolina counterparts, but overall I think Wake and UNC are pretty even when UNC is without Hairston and McDonald. Obviously with Hairston and McDonald it's an entirely different story, but to expect the current UNC team to be much better than they've shown so far is looking at the jersey rather than the talent.

[Cameron]

Ah, it's the annual "Stick a fork in Carolina, they're done" thread on DBR. We got this one going early this season. If one only read DBR, you would think Carolina had been to 14 straight NITs.

It's early, perhaps they will stink all year, but I bet they figure it out by January. The loss to Belmont is one game so I'll contain my enthusiasm for now. Perhaps I am in the minority, but I enjoy watching Duke win a lot more than watching Carolina lose.

You definitely shouldn't be in the minority. Enjoying Duke's triumphs should always transcend North Carolina's shortcomings. That's why we are Duke fans after all. Sadly, however, I'm not sure that's always the case for me.

Aside from the tournament runs during our title years, I can honestly say that many of the happiest and most celebratory occasions for me and my sister over our years of following Duke basketball have sprung from some surprising or extremely satisfying way in which North Carolina lost. A lot of that results from having grown up as the only Duke fans in a school that was full of Carolina followers. In fact, my eight-grade math teacher was as big of a Tar Heel fan as I of Duke, and we had many discussions that often turned heated in nature. After an undermanned Duke squad traveled to Chapel Hill on a Sunday afternoon in 2001 and destroyed the Tar Heels in an explosion of three-point fireworks, I walked into his classroom the next day smiling and wearing my Basic Math t-shirt. I didn't say a word. He gave me a demerit for disrupting class and sent me to "the bench," which was the designated place of punishment outside of the principal's office. He was flat-out serious, too. I'll never forget the anger on his face when he saw that shirt. He later apologized for "losing control of the situation." Haha. It's one of my favorite memories of this rivalry. It's been a long time since I last saw him and I have no idea where he is now, but years later we still laugh about that.

I can't even imagine what my hatred would be like had I lived in North Carolina as a kid. UNC fans were bad enough in the Midwest.

[oldnavy]

From an IC article....

“I’ve always had the philosophy that if the other team scores to take the lead, if it's more than seven seconds, we don’t call a timeout, we attack right then because we’ve got the ball in the open court,” Williams said. “I wanted Marcus to go get the ball, but I haven’t practiced it enough. We didn’t execute at that point and that’s my fault.”

"Panic reigned over poise in those final seconds. Johnson threw the ball into Luke Davis, not Paige, and the backup point guard passed ahead to J.P. Tokoto down the left sideline. The sophomore wing drove to the left elbow before bobbling the ball and ultimately shooting a turnaround with five seconds left."

My take...

Not calling a time out is a standard practice in that situation for many coaches.....So what I see is a coach taking responsibility for the players when a young team failed to execute. They've practiced it, just not enough, according to Roy.

And it's hard to blame him, it just is what it is.

We had an inexperienced sophomore passing to a fourth string option, passing to a 3rd string non shooter in the final seconds. And he didn't have any real option but have those guys on the floor.

Just how much time is he expected to have to coach Davis, Johnson and Tokoto in that situation to the point they can execute it? With those guys it could take all season :)

Hard to blame him?? Seriously?? He has know since before practice began that he wouldn't have PJ and LM for these early games. Why would you not practice these situations with the guys most likely to be on the floor??

Which highlights my problem with Roy. I have begged someone, anyone to give me an example of when Roy had "coached" a team to victory by making a game, or an in-game adjustment. This game goes on the long list of where Roy basically did nothing to help his team win, and they lost.

The least anyone should expect out of a HOF coach is to recognize that his team is not prepared for what they are about to face and call a timeout to settle them down and tell them EXACTLY what he wants them to do. Instead, he stands by with his arms crossed and watches them "panic". He is a terrible game coach. TERRIBLE. He recruits well, he has a good overall philosophy that works great when staffed appropriately, and for the most part seems to be able to teach the game fairly well. But, when the ball is jumped, he might as well go to the locker room, his teams would be better off. From, his senseless substitution patterns, to "time out paralysis" during major runs by other teams, to not having a clue as how to handle end of game situations, he stinks at coaching A GAME.

Last year he at least succumbed to the pressure to start PJ. I'll give him that, but that is not the same as coaching a game. He just FINALLY realized that he would do better if he put his 5 BEST players on the floor! Brilliant!

[OldPhiKap]

Carolina's pre-Christmas schedule:

Sat, Nov 23 vs Richmond
Sun, Dec 1 @UAB
Wed, Dec 4 @#1 Michigan State
Sat, Dec 7 vs UNC Greensboro
Wed, Dec 18 vs Texas
Sat, Dec 21 vs Davidson

Not an easy schedule for an internally struggling team. Especially without PJ, even assuming LeslieMac is back. 3-3, or even 2-4, is not out of the realm of possibility (although I would not say probable).

[Duvall]

Carolina's pre-Christmas schedule:

Sat, Nov 23 vs Richmond
Sun, Dec 1 @UAB
Wed, Dec 4 @#1 Michigan State
Sat, Dec 7 vs UNC Greensboro
Wed, Dec 18 vs Texas
Sat, Dec 21 vs Davidson

Not an easy schedule for an internally struggling team. Especially without PJ, even assuming LeslieMac is back. 3-3, or even 2-4, is not out of the realm of possibility (although I would not say probable).

Note that a win over Richmond would almost certainly mean playing Louisville on Nov. 24. It's very likely that UNC will take three more losses before Christmas with or without Hairston.

[Kedsy]

Carolina's pre-Christmas schedule:

Sat, Nov 23 vs Richmond
Sun, Dec 1 @UAB
Wed, Dec 4 @#1 Michigan State
Sat, Dec 7 vs UNC Greensboro
Wed, Dec 18 vs Texas
Sat, Dec 21 vs Davidson

Not an easy schedule for an internally struggling team. Especially without PJ, even assuming LeslieMac is back. 3-3, or even 2-4, is not out of the realm of possibility (although I would not say probable).

Well, you forgot Kentucky on on December 14, and if they beat Richmond they get Louisville on November 24 (and if they lose to Richmond they play Fairfield).

And adding UK and UL to the schedule you posted makes it waaaaay less easy.

[Henderson]

...against Oakland, Holy Cross and Belmont.

I agree that McAdoo would be a decent player in the OVC or Horizon League. Let's see him against decent competition before we throw out his abundant past evidence of mediocrity.

Agreed. And I'm a doubter regarding his abilities when measured against the likes of other potential pro-prospects. But to say JMM doesn't have skills would be a dangerous underestimation of him IMO.

[OldPhiKap]

Note that a win over Richmond would almost certainly mean playing Louisville on Nov. 24. It's very likely that UNC will take three more losses before Christmas with or without Hairston.


Well, you forgot Kentucky on on December 14, and if they beat Richmond they get Louisville on November 24 (and if they lose to Richmond they play Fairfield).

And adding UK and UL to the schedule you posted makes it waaaaay less easy.

True, noted both of these after I posted. So much for ESPN's schedule.

Looking at it:

Richmond -- not sure what they have this year, but historically good program with tough kids.
L'Ville -- legitimate top 5 team.
UAB -- no idea, but a road game
Sparty -- legitimate top 5 team, on the road.
UNC-G -- no idea
KY -- legitimate top 10 team
Tejas -- How does Rick Barnes keep his job?
Davidson -- like Belmont, except a better outside shooting team. Very well coached.


Yikes.

[brevity]

Belmont... not Belmont Abbey

I'm sure most Duke fans know the difference after the two tough games we've had with Belmont in recent years ... but ESPN screwed the pooch with their post-game converage of Sunday's upset. They posted a graphic about how it was UNC's first home loss to an in-state opponent other than Duke since Wake Forest beat them in in the Dean Dome in 2010.

Of course, we all know that Belmont is in Tennessee ...

That "Abbey" thing is a common mistake. ESPN also said that Belmont's J.J. Mann kept hitting his shots from Downton.

[oldnavy]

True, noted both of these after I posted. So much for ESPN's schedule.

Looking at it:

Richmond -- not sure what they have this year, but historically good program with tough kids.
L'Ville -- legitimate top 5 team.
UAB -- no idea, but a road game
Sparty -- legitimate top 5 team, on the road.
UNC-G -- no idea
KY -- legitimate top 10 team
Tejas -- How does Rick Barnes keep his job?
Davidson -- like Belmont, except a better outside shooting team. Very well coached.


Yikes.

Yes, it is definitely going to get worse before it... ah... probably gets worse (ACC).

It won't happen, BUT a case could be made that UNC could lose everyone of those games... think about that for a minute.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Yes, it is definitely going to get worse before it... ah... probably gets worse (ACC).

It won't happen, BUT a case could be made that UNC could lose everyone of those games... think about that for a minute.
As the guys from [the real] Top Gear would say... that's like reading a stack of "gentleman's literature."

[BD80]

Yes, it is definitely going to get worse before it... ah... probably gets worse (ACC).

It won't happen, BUT a case could be made that UNC could lose everyone of those games... think about that for a minute.

you're such a tease

[JasonEvans]

Not calling a time out is a standard practice in that situation for many coaches.....So what I see is a coach taking responsibility for the players when a young team failed to execute. They've practiced it, just not enough, according to Roy.

Marcus Paige is no Chris Duhon ;)

FFward to the 1:43:15 mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUesuH_Fpmw&feature=player_detailpage#t=6201

-Jason "never... gets... old!" Evans

[Duvall]

Luke Winn is magic. *Of course* he has a profile of Belmont's hero ready to go. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20131118/jj-mann-belmont-upset-unc-story/)

[hurleyfor3]

Marcus Paige is no Chris Duhon ;)

FFward to the 1:43:15 mark


-Jason "never... gets... old!" Evans

I was thinking about that play too :)

For future reference, you can specify a time by right-clicking within the video and choosing "Copy video URL at current time". Like so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUesuH_Fpmw&feature=player_detailpage#t=6178

[JasonEvans]

I was thinking about that play too :)

For future reference, you can specify a time by right-clicking within the video and choosing "Copy video URL at current time". Like so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUesuH_Fpmw&feature=player_detailpage#t=6178

Yup, I did that. But, handy factoid, that trick does not work when you embed the video in a post.

-Jason

[Indoor66]

Yes, besides Roy would have had to have called a time out to set up something, and we all know how he feels about doing that.

Hey, you don't get voted as most overrated coach by your peers for nothing, it takes work!

You don't call a time out to set up something when you have nothing to set up!

[oldnavy]

You don't call a time out to set up something when you have nothing to set up!

Great point. I do remember him calling a TO during a Duke game where they got the ball to Hansbrough, which would be a great idea, except he was about 20 feet from the basket and chunked up a brick. Duke won by 4.

The other time was during the NCAA game against OHIO (NOT OSU) when with a chance to win the game in regulation he called HB's # on the perimeter, which was dumb for several reasons, one HB was like 3-16 from the floor that game, two HB was not good at putting the ball on the floor and going to the rim, three HB was NOT going to give the ball up, and lastly they had Zeller on the floor who had pretty much dominated the smaller Bobcats the entire game.

So, maybe it is best that Roy NOT call a play during EOG situations...

[oldnavy]

Question? How did the dude that sang "Wreckingball" to JMM get to stay in the gym? Presbyterian guy must be really upset that he got singled out!!

Is Ol' Roy losing his hearing now?

[Olympic Fan]

Question? How did the dude that sang "Wreckingball" to JMM get to stay in the gym? Presbyterian guy must be really upset that he got singled out!!

Is Ol' Roy losing his hearing now?

You want to laugh ... check out the thread on IC about this -- the majority of posters can't understand why he wasn't escorted out. They seem to think it's a rule that you can't heckle one of their players in the Dean Dome.

[Duvall]

Question? How did the dude that sang "Wreckingball" to JMM get to stay in the gym? Presbyterian guy must be really upset that he got singled out!!

Is Ol' Roy losing his hearing now?

The Belmont heckler was sitting behind the Belmont bench - I doubt Roy wanted to risk tossing a player's family member for some harmless jeering.