PDA

View Full Version : Three-Time All ACC 1st Team



gw67
08-30-2007, 11:07 AM
The post by riverside prompted me to go back and look at the stats that Charlie Board had put together on ACC play (the stats are linked by DBR). For those of us who have been fans of the ACC for many years, it is a pleasant walk down memory lane. For instance, there are twenty-three players who have been awarded 1st team All ACC for three seasons. They are listed below. In addition, one of these players, Mark Price, was also 2nd team All ACC one year.

Mark Price, GT 84,85,86
Len Chappell, WFU 60,61*,62*
Billy Cunningham, UNC 63,64,65*
Charlie Davis, WFU 69,70,71*
Juan Dixon, MARY 00,01,02
Tim Duncan, WFU 95,96*,97*
Phil Ford, UNC 76,77,78*
Mike Gminski, DUKE 78,79*,80
Matt Harpring, GT 96,97,98
Art Heyman, DUKE 61,62,63*
Antawn Jamison, UNC 96,97,98*
Trajan Langdon, DUKE 97,98,99
York Larese, UNC 59,60,61
John Lucas, MARY 74,75,76
Jeff Mullins, DUKE 62,63,64*
Sam Perkins, UNC 82,83,84
John Roche, USC 69*,70*,71
Lennie Rosenbluth,UNC 55,56,57*
Ralph Sampson, VIRG 81*,82*,83*
Charlie Scott, UNC 68,69,70
Bryant Stith, VIRG 90,91,92
David Thompson, NCSU 73*,74*,75*
Bob Verga, DUKE 65,66,67

The asterisk indicates that the player was POY that year. The surprises in this list to me are Dixon, Harpring and Trajan. They were very good players but I didn’t think they were selected to the 1st team three times. Duke players – Alarie, Ferry, Hill, Laettner and Spanarkel were 1st team twice and 2nd team once. Dawkins was 1st team twice and 2nd team twice. The greatest (?) player in ACC history as chosen by ACC sportswriters, Michael Jordan, was 1st team twice as was Len Bias.

gw67

hurleyfor3
08-30-2007, 01:17 PM
Handsblowblow is a lock to make it 2006-07-08.

Charlie Board's site only goes up to 2003. In case yer wondering, JJ made the second team in 2004 and Shel made the third team, so neither went three in a row.

BD80
08-30-2007, 02:21 PM
Other conferences would have a tough time matching up with the ACC all-star team based on college play.

PG Phil Ford
SG Len Bias
SF David Thompson
PF Tim Duncan
C Ralph Sampson

The weak link is SG compared to what other conferences can offer, but I think Bias was the best for that position. He simply dominated games. MJ wasn't as good in college as he became as a pro (particularly with shooting). It is very sad that 4 of the 5 never reached their potential as pros.

Of the 3 time All ACC list, I think the most impressive is Antawn Jamison, who only played three years. I believe the others took four years to get in three times.

FewFAC
08-30-2007, 02:50 PM
While Dixon and Langdon definitely stand out from the rest of the list thanks to the decimation of the college game by the NBA, the surprise to me is Bryant Stith, who, while one of my favorite ACC players of his era, really had some decent competition.

VaDukie
08-30-2007, 03:28 PM
Other conferences would have a tough time matching up with the ACC all-star team based on college play.

PG Phil Ford
SG Len Bias
SF David Thompson
PF Tim Duncan
C Ralph Sampson

The weak link is SG compared to what other conferences can offer, but I think Bias was the best for that position. He simply dominated games. MJ wasn't as good in college as he became as a pro (particularly with shooting). It is very sad that 4 of the 5 never reached their potential as pros.

Of the 3 time All ACC list, I think the most impressive is Antawn Jamison, who only played three years. I believe the others took four years to get in three times.

Nothing against his career as an outstanding player, but what kind of sacrilege are you bringing in here putting Duncan over Laettner?

riverside6
08-30-2007, 03:44 PM
I agree...and even Duncan admitted that Greg Newton (http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/tt_archived_player_page.asp?hArchivedHeader=1484) was the best player he's ever seen.

Olympic Fan
08-30-2007, 04:14 PM
Actually, if you're going to pick an alltime team by position, let me suggest yoiu consider Duncan a center -- since he played that position for well over 100 of the 128 games he played at Wake.

He briefly played power forward early in the 1996-97 season when Loren Woods was a freshman, but Woods didn't last the season as a starter (suffering a nervous breakdown) and Duncan moved back to center for the majority of the season. There's no question he was the Wake center in 1994-95-96.

By the same token, both Thompson and Bias were small forwards in college. If you're going to play both together, I'd suggest Bias -- at 6-8 -- would be the forward and the 6-4 Thompson -- a better shooter and a better ballhandler -- be listed as the guard.

Actually, based on the position they actually played for most of their college career, I'd suggest Charlie Scott as the best ACC wing guard candidate -- he played small forward as a junior in 1969, when Grubar and Fogler were the starting backcourt, but he was a wing guard in 1968 (when Miller and Bunting were the starting forwards) and in 1969 (when Chamberlain and Wuycik started at forward).

But as we've talked about many times, positions are overblown. Scott played point guard in the NBA, Duncan became a power forward, either Thompson or Bias could have played forward or guard as needed.

My alltime ACC team would have Ford at the point (backed up by Hurley), Thompson and Bias on the wings (backed up by Scott, Grant Hill and Michael Jordan) and Duncan and Laettner in the post (backed up by Len Chappell, Shane Battier and Tommy Burleson). That's 12 -- for my 13th man, give me Muggsy Bogues for a change of pace guy.

Forgive me for leaving off Sampson, the most overrated, selfish, choke-artist in ACC history. You're welcome to him.

captmojo
08-31-2007, 10:36 AM
The greatest (?) player in ACC history as chosen by ACC sportswriters, Michael Jordan, was 1st team twice as was Len Bias.

gw67

Don't you suppose this is based more on his pro rather than college career?

gw67
08-31-2007, 11:47 AM
Captmojo – Bill Brill, who voted for the 50th Anniversary team, confirmed this in a post a couple of years ago. I believe that he stated that the direction the voters were given was that post-ACC play could be considered. As Chuck Taylor pointed out at the time, this pro bias was also responsible for Fred Funk being selected on the 50th Anniversary golf team although they were others who were more deserving based on their college records.

As an old timer, I saw all but one of the players listed in my initial post play. Jordan was a great college player but he was no better than the 10th top player in ACC history, IMO. The greatest player in ACC history was David Thompson. At 6-2 (not 6-4 as listed), he dominated the league (and national powerhouse UCLA).

gw67

captmojo
08-31-2007, 09:53 PM
As an old timer, I saw all but one of the players listed in my initial post play. Jordan was a great college player but he was no better than the 10th top player in ACC history, IMO. The greatest player in ACC history was David Thompson. At 6-2 (not 6-4 as listed), he dominated the league (and national powerhouse UCLA).

gw67

There is no way on this earth you could be more correct sir.

I'm not going to blame you for the old timer part though, being now one myself.;)

Olympic Fan
09-01-2007, 10:13 AM
At 6-2 (not 6-4 as listed), he dominated the league (and national powerhouse UCLA).

Do you have a source for that height?

Although Thompson graduated the year before Norm Sloan brought in the NC Department of Weights and Measures to provide precise measurements of his players, Thompson says in his autobiography, Skywalker, that his actual height, without shoes, was 6-3 1/2.

Other than than, I agree with everything you say about Thompson. As Brill related, the ACC top 50 voters were told to consider pro performance ... the debate about Jordan's place in ACC history has launched a million threads. I think those who try to counter the know-nothings who suggest he was the best ever (as a collegian) sometimes go too far and downplay his collegiate accomplishments. He was a GREAT college player -- but there were a lot of great ACC players.

The point I usually make is that Jordan and Duke's Jason Williams had almost exactly the same college career -- both played three years and their numbers are very similar (Jason's are actually very slightly better) ... their teams achieved similar success (one national title each) although they played with other great players (Worthy and Perkins for Jordan; Battier and Boozer for Jason) ... they won very similar awards (both two-time first-team All-Americans who won one major national POY award as a sophomore and swept every national POY award as a junior).

Both ended their career in the Sweet 16 with a crushing loss to an inferior Indiana team. Jason (No. 2) was drafted one spot ahead of Jordan (No. 3) in the NBA draft.

So whereever you rank Jordan in the ACC pantheon, you've got to rank Jason right there with him.

And that place has to be behind David Thompson -- whether he was 6-2, 6-3 1/5 or 6-4

gw67
09-02-2007, 07:33 AM
Olympic – I was fortunate to see David Thompson play against Virginia and Maryland. Besides his extraordinary leaping ability, he had wonderful timing on blocking shots and rebounding, and he had very good touch on his jump shot. He was, along with the Big “O”, the best college player that I ever saw play in person. I’ll admit that my comment regarding his height was based on personal observation (he appeared to be closer to Mo Howard in height and shorter than John Lucas; he also appeared to be slightly shorter than Billy Langloh and was dwarfed by Wally Walker) and a comment made a few years ago by either Bonner or Elmore that he was closer to 6-2 than 6-4. In any case, he is still the best to play in the ACC.

Some other thoughts:

• The comparison of the college careers of Jordan and JWill is on the mark. Two great, three-year college players.
• Hansbrough has a chance to be the first 4-time, 1st team All ACC.
• I like your alltime All ACC team but mine would be slightly different. Guards – Ford, JWill, Lucas, Jordan, Dawkins; Wing – Thompson, Bias, Cunningham; Frontcourt – Sampson, Duncan, Laettner, Chappell. Lucas, Dawkins, Cunningham and Chappell could be replaced by other great players such as Hurley, Price, Hill, Heyman and Gminski.

gw67

mapei
09-02-2007, 11:49 PM
Excellent points comparing JWill and Jordan. I hadn't thought of it that way before.

riverside6
09-04-2007, 02:49 PM
Excellent points comparing JWill and Jordan. I hadn't thought of it that way before.
Regarding David Thompson (http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/tt_archived_player_page.asp?hArchivedHeader=1909), I have him listed at 6'4 195 lbs.

Indoor66
09-04-2007, 06:36 PM
Regarding David Thompson (http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/tt_archived_player_page.asp?hArchivedHeader=1909), I have him listed at 6'4 195 lbs.

That was what he was listed when he played for Denver. The NBA Encyclopedia lists this:

Born: 7/13/54
College: North Carolina State
Drafted by: Virginia Squires (ABA) and Atlanta Hawks (NBA), 1975
Height: 6-4˝
Weight: 195 lbs.