ACC Tournament Locations

[superdave]

http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/Washington-DC-Host-2016-ACC-Men-Basketball-Tournament_11-13-13_yxzhg0

2014 and 2015 - Greensboro Coliseum, Greensboro NC (old news)
2016 - Verizon Center, Washington DC (new news)

Greensboro capacity is about 23,500 for hoops and Verizon is only about 20,300. Tickets will be a little harder to come by. But the distance from NC may mitigate some of that.

[Dev11]

http://www.theacc.com/#!/news-detail/Washington-DC-Host-2016-ACC-Men-Basketball-Tournament_11-13-13_yxzhg0

2014 and 2015 - Greensboro Coliseum, Greensboro NC (old news)
2016 - Verizon Center, Washington DC (new news)

Greensboro capacity is about 23,500 for hoops and Verizon is only about 20,300. Tickets will be a little harder to come by. But the distance from NC may mitigate some of that.

Interesting, they went with Maryland's backyard instead of big-time NYC and the arena that is apparently really famous but always needs to be moved and renovated.

[weezie]

Nuts to DC. It's been mentioned here several times before that the venue and city are less than comfortable or welcoming.
Will we eventually be sent to Indianapolis again due to notre dame?
How come it's never been in Boston? Not that I want to go there, just asking.

[hurleyfor3]

Well, I know one tournament I won't be going to.


How come it's never been in Boston? Not that I want to go there, just asking.

Boston isn't the greatest place to be in the middle of March. Also, the conference likes to have the tournament near its fans, to keep the building full. North Carolina, Atlanta and DC have that. Boston doesn't.

[Olympic Fan]

I think this is GREAT -- the ultimate in-your-face to Maryland.

It's also evidence that the ACC is not going to give up the DC market without a fight. The Washington papers have always covered Virginia and Virginia Tech as home teams. Notre Dame has always has a strong presence in the market (their current starting backcourt is from the DC area). Duke has milked DC and its environs for decades -- from Johnny Dawkins to Tommy Amaker to Danny Ferry to Nolan Smith to our current starting backcourt of Tyler Thornton and Quinn Cook.

I agree that Verizon is not the greatest locale, but when the tourney was there in 2005, the interest was through the roof -- even with Maryland taking a first-round nose dive.

And as for those who would rather play in New York -- the problem is securing a reasonable contract. MSG has been adamant that it wants a 10-year deal. Barclays has been a bit more flexible, but do you really want to play in Brooklyn?

This is a brilliant move by the ACC ...

[Reilly]

...Duke has milked DC and its environs for decades -- from Johnny Dawkins to Tommy Amaker to Danny Ferry to Nolan Smith to our current starting backcourt of Tyler Thornton and Quinn Cook.

I agree that Verizon is not the greatest locale, but when the tourney was there in 2005, the interest was through the roof ...

You forgot Joey Beard and that other guy from his high school, Grant Hill. (And Crawford Palmer from Arlington!)

I was there in 2005. I don't recall there being the same amount of interest you mention.

[weezie]

.... do you really want to play in Brooklyn?


Oly, you are clearly NOT a hipster. :cool:

But I'll treat you to real pizza and beer if the tourney does get to Barclay's.

[MChambers]

The ACC tournament is going to be in Alaska? Wait til Gary Williams finds out!

[sagegrouse]

I agree that Verizon is not the greatest locale, but when the tourney was there in 2005, the interest was through the roof -- even with Maryland taking a first-round nose dive.



Without wanting to pick a fight, I disagree totally with the notion that the Verizon Center is "not the greatest locale." True, if you like to drive up to a large parking lot and walk 1/4 mile into an arena or attend a tailgate in said lot, it is not your thing. OTOH, it is above a Metro stop and easily accessible from throughout the Metro DC area. There are 50-100 watering, holes, restaurants, and clubs within a 3-4 block radius, including some with outstanding fare.

If price is not your main objective, there are also outstanding hotels within a short walk. Moreover, a ten-minute walk gets you to the National Gallery of Art and a 20-minute walk to other museums, if you or a friend want to take a break from basketball.

But we've had this discussion before....

sagegrouse

[Dev11]

Without wanting to pick a fight, I disagree totally with the notion that the Verizon Center is "not the greatest locale." True, if you like to drive up to a large parking lot and walk 1/4 mile into an arena or attend a tailgate in said lot, it is not your thing. OTOH, it is above a Metro stop and easily accessible from throughout the Metro DC area. There are 50-100 watering, holes, restaurants, and clubs within a 3-4 block radius, including some with outstanding fare.

If price is not your main objective, there are also outstanding hotels within a short walk. Moreover, a ten-minute walk gets you to the National Gallery of Art and a 20-minute walk to other museums, if you or a friend want to take a break from basketball.

But we've had this discussion before....

sagegrouse

It's definitely a good place for a long weekend vacation of tourism, and it's within a day's drive of most of the ACC. I think that makes it a fine location.

[Olympic Fan]

Without wanting to pick a fight, I disagree totally with the notion that the Verizon Center is "not the greatest locale." True, if you like to drive up to a large parking lot and walk 1/4 mile into an arena or attend a tailgate in said lot, it is not your thing. OTOH, it is above a Metro stop and easily accessible from throughout the Metro DC area. There are 50-100 watering, holes, restaurants, and clubs within a 3-4 block radius, including some with outstanding fare.

If price is not your main objective, there are also outstanding hotels within a short walk. Moreover, a ten-minute walk gets you to the National Gallery of Art and a 20-minute walk to other museums, if you or a friend want to take a break from basketball.

But we've had this discussion before....

sagegrouse

Believe me, my complaints about Verizon are minor -- it's one of the smaller venues in the ACC Tournament mix (3,000 less than Greensboro), so that hurts. It is very expensive to stay anywhere close to the arena. I know there is a local metro stop nearby (which I used in 2005), but it's not always easy for outsiders to navigate. And traffic in and around Washington is almost always a nightmare (coming back from Philly after the NCAA last spring was latest terrible experience with the DC area roadblock).

But the arena itself is fine and is surrounded with a lot of nice spots -- there is (or was in 2005) a Legal Seafood across the block. And Reilly, I don't know what you remember from 2005, but I remember that there was a lot of speculation that after Maryland was knocked out early, interest would dry up, but instead, it was over the top. Scalpers made a fortune, every game was packed (in contrast to the last couple of years in Atlanta and Greensboro) and the atmosphere ws great.

[Duvall]

It's definitely a good place for a long weekend vacation of tourism, and it's within a day's drive of most of the ACC. I think that makes it a fine location.

Verizon Center is certainly one of the closest large venues to the geographic center of the league, though Greensboro and Charlotte are closer.

This seems like a stopgap to extend the time for the league to decide what to do about New York. Otherwise why announce the location for just the 2016 Tournament?

[hurleyfor3]

Believe me, my complaints about Verizon are minor -- it's one of the smaller venues in the ACC Tournament mix (3,000 less than Greensboro), so that hurts.

I think there are more good seats in Greensboro than in DC. The lower deck in DC seems a lot smaller, and the 400 level seats are completely worthless; you're better off watching on teevee. The 200 level seems farther away in Greensboro than in DC, and I've sat in the front row of 200 in both venues. Something about the cantilever in Greensboro over the 100 level being greater.

[-bdbd]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/...pisrc=nl_sports


This is no surprise that the ACC is not going to concede DC to the Big10, and putting the Tournament at the Verizon Center so soon after MD's departure sends a strong message to that end. So, Terps fans, when do you next expect the Big10 tournament to be held in DC??

I love it! Given the updated membership, DC is probably now closer to the new geographic center of the conference anyway. Obviously more media attention there than in N.C. Plus a terrific destination with many other attractions outside of the tournament.

This is also interesting as there were many rumors that the conference was in talks to get it into NYC/Brooklyn too. According to the Post's article, the Barclay's Center in Brooklyn is locked in to the Atlantic 10 until 2017. So maybe we could see the ACC there circa 2018 and 2019?? I do understand why those arenas are pushing so hard for long-term commitments, but I wonder how "iron-clad" the deal with the Big East is at MSG through 2026... :confused:

[hurleyfor3]

Given the updated membership, DC is probably now closer to the new geographic center of the conference anyway.

Being the dork that I am, I computed the center of gravity of the 2016 ACC (15 teams). I used the coordinates of the cities, not the campuses, as given by Wikipedia. These were rounded to the nearest minute (a minute is roughly a mile). For Boston College I used Newton and for ND I used South Bend. Everyone was equal-weighted; I didn't account for enrollment levels or location of alumni.

I got (36.63, -80.46). This location is on the Blue Ridge Escarpment about 14 miles northeast of Mount Airy, N.C., and thus much closer to Greensboro than to DC. Google says it's 79 miles to Greensboro by road and 319 miles to DC.

Other historic and future ACC centers of gravity:

1954-70 (8 teams)
36.19, -79.51. Right on NC highway 87 some 10 miles north of Burlington.

1970s (7)
36.51, -79.30. In North Carolina, on the banks of the River Dan some 10 miles SE of Danville, Virginia.

1980s (8)
36.16, -79.93. About five miles due north of the GSO airport.

1990s-2004 (9)
35.53, -80.41. Near Rockwell, NC and about 10 miles ENE of Kannapolis. Roughly equidistant from Charlotte's and Greensboro's coliseums at the time.

2005 (11)
34.79, -80.40. Right on US 601 between Pageland, SC and the North Carolina border.

2006-12 (12)
35.42, -79.63. Just west of Robbins, NC.

2013 (now, with Md and ND but not Loovul) (15)
36.68, -79.87. At 307 Virginia Street, right off US 58 in Martinsville, Va.

As it turns out the ACC center of gravity has always been, and will be, within North Carolina or a few miles from the border.

[Reilly]

... As it turns out the ACC center of gravity has always been, and will be, within North Carolina or a few miles from the border.

Gary Williams stinks at both math and geography, and he could have told you that.

[Olympic Fan]

Being the dork that I am, I computed the center of gravity of the 2016 ACC (15 teams).

1970s (7)
36.51, -79.30. In North Carolina, on the banks of the River Dan some 10 miles SE of Danville, Virginia.



And being the history dork that I am, I can't help point out that this point was the scene of one of the most dramatic and important moments in American history -- very near the place called Boyd's Crossing, where General Nathanial Greene won the Race to the Dan and saved the Continental Army in the South.

Greene inherited the Southern Division of the Continental Army in the fall of 1980, soon after it had been virtually destroyed at the Battle of Camden. He took over a few thousand sick and beaten men just outside Charlotte, N.C. At the time, Cornwallis commanded more than five times as many troops just over the South Carolina border.

Greene then did something crazy -- he split his tiny army, sending his best troops west under Daniel Morgan. Cornwallis responded by moving his main body after Greene, while sending a powerful force under Banastre Tarleton after Morgan. At a place just to the southwest of Charlotte known as The Cowpens, Morgan absolutely crushed Tarleton's force -- killing and capturing more than 1,000 redcoats.

Morgan quickly retreated with his booty (and prisoners) into North Carolina, moving NE to link up with Greene. The two armies met near Salisbury with Cornwallis closing fast with an overwhelming force. When the British got to Salisbury, the Americans were gone. Cornwallis -- who despite his ultimate defeat was probably the best British general to fight in America -- responded by burning his baggage train and converting his army to light troops. He started in pursuit of Greene as winter descended on North Carolina with cold weather and steady, cold rain. The race to the Dan, where thousands of well trained and well equipped Virginia militia waited (but would not leave the state), was on. At first Morgan commanded the rearguard, but his health forced him to retire and Colonel William Smallwood, who commanded a superb regiment of Maryland Continentals, took charge. He skirmished with the British advance guard all across North Carolina -- often just minutes ahead of them. But Smallwood did something brilliant -- he moved slightly west of the main rebel body, giving them room to reach the Dan and cross unmolested on Valentine's Day, 1981. The final race was for Smallwood's rearguard to reach the ferry point -- they won by mere minutes ... their boats hitting the north side of the Dan as the British advance guard reached the south bank.

With every boat on the river in rebel hands on the north bank and the nearest fords a half-day's march away, plus his unsupplied army (their supplies burned in Salisbury) Cornwallis had to break off the pursuit.

Several months later, a reinforced American army crossed back into North Carolina and cut the heart of Cornwallis' army at Guilford's Courthouse -- with Smallwood's Marylanders holding the center of the line. Greene retreated, giving Cornwallis the "victory" but the terrible losses convinced Cornwallis to give up on North Carolina and to invade Virginia instead ... and we all know how that turned out.

Barely a year after Greene took over a broken and dispirited force near Charlotte, Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown and Greene completed the re-conquest of the Southern colonies. He never won a clearcut victory on the battlefield, but he conquered a territory larger than France -- and the centerpiece of his triumph was an epic retreat -- his race to the Dan.

[dukebballcamper90-91]

Hey weezie, I will come for NY pizza and beer. Greensboro should be the home of the ACC tourney.

[brevity]

As it turns out the ACC center of gravity has always been, and will be, within North Carolina or a few miles from the border.

Excellent work. Is there a way to perform this kind of task backwards? Specifically, could you determine the overall geographical criteria ESPN uses that makes Digger Phelps the center of attention?


Gary Williams stinks...

What do you expect? He sweats a lot.

[Here is a Turtle]

I suppose it can't stay in Greensboro forever so DC is an alternative until NY opens up.

[-jk]

I suppose it can't stay in Greensboro forever so DC is an alternative until NY opens up.

Well, yeah. Obviously, the Bigger Whatever doesn't care 'bout DC. The ACC might as well.

-jk

[weezie]

Being the dork that I am, I computed the center of gravity of the 2016 ACC (15 teams). I used the coordinates of the cities, not the campuses, as given by Wikipedia. These were rounded to the nearest minute (a minute is roughly a mile). For Boston College I used Newton and for ND I used South Bend. Everyone was equal-weighted; I didn't account for enrollment levels or location of alumni.


Whoa whoa whoa. You sir, are a dork and a nerd and a super smarty pants. My center of basketball gravity is where I sit in any and all arenas. Spread the wealth (not my derriere, wise acres) I say.

Man alive, there's men alive in there.

[hurleyfor3]

No one wants to call me out for neglecting cosine error? Latitudes can be averaged, but strictly speaking longitudes shouldn't be. The ACC schools are rather well-distributed geographically though, so it shouldn't make much difference.

[Here is a Turtle]

Well, yeah. Obviously, the Bigger Whatever doesn't care 'bout DC. The ACC might as well.

-jk

There's a lot of B1G alums in DC so...

But regardless, the move makes sense fr a recruiting standpoint.

[-jk]

And being the history dork that I am, I can't help point out that this point was the scene of one of the most dramatic and important moments in American history -- very near the place called Boyd's Crossing, where General Nathanial Greene won the Race to the Dan and saved the Continental Army in the South.

Greene inherited the Southern Division of the Continental Army in the fall of 1980, soon after it had been virtually destroyed at the Battle of Camden. He took over a few thousand sick and beaten men just outside Charlotte, N.C. At the time, Cornwallis commanded more than five times as many troops just over the South Carolina border.

Greene then did something crazy -- he split his tiny army, sending his best troops west under Daniel Morgan. Cornwallis responded by moving his main body after Greene, while sending a powerful force under Banastre Tarleton after Morgan. At a place just to the southwest of Charlotte known as The Cowpens, Morgan absolutely crushed Tarleton's force -- killing and capturing more than 1,000 redcoats.

Morgan quickly retreated with his booty (and prisoners) into North Carolina, moving NE to link up with Greene. The two armies met near Salisbury with Cornwallis closing fast with an overwhelming force. When the British got to Salisbury, the Americans were gone. Cornwallis -- who despite his ultimate defeat was probably the best British general to fight in America -- responded by burning his baggage train and converting his army to light troops. He started in pursuit of Greene as winter descended on North Carolina with cold weather and steady, cold rain. The race to the Dan, where thousands of well trained and well equipped Virginia militia waited (but would not leave the state), was on. At first Morgan commanded the rearguard, but his health forced him to retire and Colonel William Smallwood, who commanded a superb regiment of Maryland Continentals, took charge. He skirmished with the British advance guard all across North Carolina -- often just minutes ahead of them. But Smallwood did something brilliant -- he moved slightly west of the main rebel body, giving them room to reach the Dan and cross unmolested on Valentine's Day, 1981. The final race was for Smallwood's rearguard to reach the ferry point -- they won by mere minutes ... their boats hitting the north side of the Dan as the British advance guard reached the south bank.

With every boat on the river in rebel hands on the north bank and the nearest fords a half-day's march away, plus his unsupplied army (their supplies burned in Salisbury) Cornwallis had to break off the pursuit.

Several months later, a reinforced American army crossed back into North Carolina and cut the heart of Cornwallis' army at Guilford's Courthouse -- with Smallwood's Marylanders holding the center of the line. Greene retreated, giving Cornwallis the "victory" but the terrible losses convinced Cornwallis to give up on North Carolina and to invade Virginia instead ... and we all know how that turned out.

Barely a year after Greene took over a broken and dispirited force near Charlotte, Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown and Greene completed the re-conquest of the Southern colonies. He never won a clearcut victory on the battlefield, but he conquered a territory larger than France -- and the centerpiece of his triumph was an epic retreat -- his race to the Dan.

Thanks, Oly! History was never my strong suit, but I just watched my daughter study the American Revolution. Her book didn't put this sort of texture onto the story. Fun (if tangential) read.

-jk