MBB: Duke vs Kansas Pre-Game and In-Game Thread

[weezie]

Kind of already getting worked up for Tuesday night!

[juise]

Last time on Duke vs. Kansas in November...

http://youtu.be/FXJQXjhuxmI

[DevilFalcon]

Here's to Tyler hitting a crazy off balance impossible 3 at a critical point in the game again. I just hope we're comfortably ahead this time.
After this game the taking heads will label us for real.

[JPtheGame]

Get ready to be destroyed inside by the tandem of Black, Ellis, Embid, and Traylor. This unstoppable quartet made a whopping 8 shots versus the mighty Louisiana-Monroe Warhawks. I'm not sure why Duke is even bothering to show up.

[kAzE]

Get ready to be destroyed inside by the tandem of Black, Ellis, Embid, and Traylor. This unstoppable quartet made a whopping 8 shots versus the mighty Louisiana-Monroe Warhawks. I'm not sure why Duke is even bothering to show up.

THANK YOU. I'm not sure why everyone is talking up Kansas' big men so much. They've got Wiggins, who is, admittedly, very, very talented, and then not much else . . . Ellis has a lot to prove before he lives up to all the hype he's getting this preseason, and Black has 4 years of game tape of being thoroughly mediocre despite his physical gifts. And then there's Embiid, who has crazy potential, but is about as raw offensively as it gets. If we played them in February, it might be a different story, but Jay Williams needs to calm it down with the proclamations of KU's inside dominance.

[DukeAlumBS]

THANK YOU. I'm not sure why everyone is talking up Kansas' big men so much. They've got Wiggins, who is, admittedly, very, very talented, and then not much else . . . Ellis has a lot to prove before he lives up to all the hype he's getting this preseason, and Black has 4 years of game tape of being thoroughly mediocre despite his physical gifts. And then there's Embiid, who has crazy potential, but is about as raw offensively as it gets. If we played them in February, it might be a different story, but Jay Williams needs to calm it down with the proclamations of KU's inside dominance.

I agree regarding Kansas and Jay. I see a 50 point blow out. Course all my Duke picks are 50 point blowout. What I saw with the combination of Hood and Parker . Allows our other shooters to toy with Kansas with their 3! I feel we are quicker and this will help! Go Duke
Jimmy

[bbosbbos]

LOL ;)


Get ready to be destroyed inside by the tandem of Black, Ellis, Embid, and Traylor. This unstoppable quartet made a whopping 8 shots versus the mighty Louisiana-Monroe Warhawks. I'm not sure why Duke is even bothering to show up.

[TexHawk]

Ellis has a lot to prove before he lives up to all the hype he's getting this preseason

Care to show where this preseason hype is? Andrew Wiggins is getting preseason hype. As is Joel Embiid. All Perry Ellis has is an honorable mention on the Big 12 preseason award list. KU fans are excited because he came on strong at the end of the year last year (10+ ppg over the last 10 games, Big12 Tourney MVP), and most fans would be ecstatic if he could keep that up for this entire year. But he's very clearly a four year player.

[TexHawk]

Get ready to be destroyed inside by the tandem of Black, Ellis, Embid, and Traylor. This unstoppable quartet made a whopping 8 shots versus the mighty Louisiana-Monroe Warhawks. I'm not sure why Duke is even bothering to show up.

Weird you single out the makes only. Those 8 came on 12 shots. Which probably had something to do with the fact that KU's PG and primary post feeder was suspended for this game. If Duke wants to come in with a plan to allow KU to shoot 67% from inside, I think Bill Self would take that.

[Gthoma2a]

Weird you single out the makes only. Those 8 came on 12 shots. Which probably had something to do with the fact that KU's PG and primary post feeder was suspended for this game. If Duke wants to come in with a plan to allow KU to shoot 67% from inside, I think Bill Self would take that.

This is one of the things I don't understand. I don't really fear Kansas' inside D, right now. By the admission of the Kansas people that I hear, the interior D is not very good right now. It is rebounding/foul trouble that could really hurt us.

As for their shooting on the inside, their shooting will not be more efficient than Amile's. Amile is very capable of making baskets because he plays within himself (takes high percentage shots). If we add in the 4 and the 3, we are likely to have significant advantages (especially this early into the career of Wiggins; most of those who are realistic think he will become special in the league, but recognize he is not that guy yet). No matter what they shot from the post, we just shot the lights out from all positions. Small sample size, but there is no one who really wants to push the "we shot really well" card against us right now.

It will be a good game, but .667 probability of a make from a couple of feet away makes me feel better because it means we will get some second chances at getting the defensive rebound, even on the gimmes.

[roywhite]

Weird you single out the makes only. Those 8 came on 12 shots. Which probably had something to do with the fact that KU's PG and primary post feeder was suspended for this game. If Duke wants to come in with a plan to allow KU to shoot 67% from inside, I think Bill Self would take that.

TexHawk, I'm curious; will you be pulling for Kansas to win this game?

[rsvman]

I don't know if it's really about the amazing strength/talent of the Kansas inside guys. I saw some significant weakness on the inside in the Duke-Davidson game. If this team has a weakness, it's definitely inside defense and defensive rebounding.

So if the Kansas guys are reasonably good, they could give us some trouble. I think that if Duke really wants to compete for the Final Four or a championship, one of things that they're going to have to do is shore up the interior defense over the course of the season. I think they will do that, and be in the mix at the end of the year, but this is only the second game of the season. I would not be surprised to see us struggle a bit inside against this Kansas team.

[Henderson]

Rebounding and foul shooting. Those two things scare me, because they have been questionable. But for those two deficiencies, I'd really like our chances. As it is, I dunno. I say it's a pick 'em. Kansas will have its point guard back, and we aren't going to shoot 70+% against them. Nor will we likely commit only 4 turnovers against 16 assists. I liked what I saw against Davidson (except the aforementioned rebounding and FT stats), but we can't count on playing that well every game. One thing for sure: both teams are going to learn a lot about themselves in this one.

Wiggins? Known quantity, even as a freshman. We can manage him.

[Indoor66]

I am of the very strong opinion that we will score more points than they will and that this fact will determine the outcome.

[TexHawk]

This is one of the things I don't understand. I don't really fear Kansas' inside D, right now. By the admission of the Kansas people that I hear, the interior D is not very good right now. It is rebounding/foul trouble that could really hurt us.

KU's interior D is atrocious right now. ULM does not have a player over 6' 7", and they scored pretty much at will at the basket. A lot of back cuts and layups. Embiid will be a special defender at some point, but I doubt we'll see it before he leaves Lawrence. Traylor, Ellis, and Black are average right now (Traylor was horrific on Friday night, but he was fine last year.)


Small sample size, but there is no one who really wants to push the "we shot really well" card against us right now.

I was merely responding to the "tee hee, they only made 8 shots" post. It would be one thing if they consistently had the ball in good position and couldn't score against a short team, but they were only able to shoot the ball 12 times. That includes put-backs off offensive rebounds. That's crazy awful from an offensive execution point-of-view, but not really the one stat you want to pull out to denigrate the KU big men.

[weezie]

I am of the very strong opinion that we will score more points than they will and that this fact will determine the outcome.

Go with your gut, Mr. Indoor! You, sir, are a scholar and a gentleman with a true understanding of the game. :cool:

[NYBri]

I am of the very strong opinion that we will score more points than they will and that this fact will determine the outcome.

I am in complete agreement with this analysis.

[bbosbbos]

Can not agree more.


I am of the very strong opinion that we will score more points than they will and that this fact will determine the outcome.

[Gthoma2a]

KU's interior D is atrocious right now. ULM does not have a player over 6' 7", and they scored pretty much at will at the basket. A lot of back cuts and layups. Embiid will be a special defender at some point, but I doubt we'll see it before he leaves Lawrence. Traylor, Ellis, and Black are average right now (Traylor was horrific on Friday night, but he was fine last year.)



I was merely responding to the "tee hee, they only made 8 shots" post. It would be one thing if they consistently had the ball in good position and couldn't score against a short team, but they were only able to shoot the ball 12 times. That includes put-backs off offensive rebounds. That's crazy awful from an offensive execution point-of-view, but not really the one stat you want to pull out to denigrate the KU big men.

I understand.

I think one of the things that makes every little post seem to be a point of contention (not as much here as on other forums), more than for most other games, is the fact that we have so much subtext. This is not only a game, but one that comes in the midst of a recruiting battle that could really shape our programs next season (possibly even having implications for the future beyond that to the extent that it changes the alleged perception), and we have the best pro prospects in the nation (with some debate as to whether upside that is unfulfilled is greater than or equal to incredible skill that is already apparent). After all of this is over, I think I, for one, will be back to thinking of Kansas as another of the "good guys" of college basketball again. If UNC makes the tournament, I certainly want KU in their bracket, as it has worked out well for us in the past.

[OldPhiKap]

I am of the very strong opinion that we will score more points than they will and that this fact will determine the outcome.

I disagree int he strongest of terms.

MY gut tells me that our defense will prevent Kansas from scoring more points that we do, and THAT will bet he determinative factor.

[Indoor66]

I disagree int he strongest of terms.

MY gut tells me that our defense will prevent Kansas from scoring more points that we do, and THAT will bet he determinative factor.You are, obviously, a casual observer and are completely wrong. That said, I will defend your right to be so incorrect until I die. :cool:

[JPtheGame]

Weird you single out the makes only. Those 8 came on 12 shots. Which probably had something to do with the fact that KU's PG and primary post feeder was suspended for this game. If Duke wants to come in with a plan to allow KU to shoot 67% from inside, I think Bill Self would take that.

Allow me to adjust to account for your astute observation:
Be prepared to be destroyed by a team so strong inside, so focused on owning the interior that they created a whopping 12 front court shots against a vastly inferior team with no players over 6'7. Oh btw, half of these attempts were dunks off of misses and feeds for dunks off of breaks which means KU only successfully set up their offense for the front court players on 6 occasions.
You were right. When you take a closer look, it paints a much different picture.

[freshmanjs]

Allow me to adjust to account for your astute observation:
Be prepared to be destroyed by a team so strong inside, so focused on owning the interior that they created a whopping 12 front court shots against a vastly inferior team with no players over 6'7. Oh btw, half of these attempts were dunks off of misses and feeds for dunks off of breaks which means KU only successfully set up their offense for the front court players on 6 occasions.
You were right. When you take a closer look, it paints a much different picture.

just to be clear, not all duke fans are so lacking in respect for kansas. the jayhawks have good size and a lot of talent on the interior. it's very, very early in the season. we shouldn't take one game's data on their interior shots any more seriously than we take the Drury game as an indicator of what duke can do.

[JPtheGame]

just to be clear, not all duke fans are so lacking in respect for kansas. the jayhawks have good size and a lot of talent on the interior. it's very, very early in the season. we shouldn't take one game's data on their interior shots any more seriously than we take the Drury game as an indicator of what duke can do.

Its not a lack of respect for Kansas. It's complete disagreement with Jay Williams who looked at at roster and a reputation and put the two together to say "kansas will be ____ . " As for the small sample size, I agree but I also doubt that any of the four interior players will gain the post moves of Kevin McHale in 3 days. As for good size, we have a true 7 footer so I guess we actually have the better front court. You take the size, I'll take the talent.

[Des Esseintes]

Allow me to adjust to account for your astute observation:
Be prepared to be destroyed by a team so strong inside, so focused on owning the interior that they created a whopping 12 front court shots against a vastly inferior team with no players over 6'7. Oh btw, half of these attempts were dunks off of misses and feeds for dunks off of breaks which means KU only successfully set up their offense for the front court players on 6 occasions.
You were right. When you take a closer look, it paints a much different picture.

Ease up. TexHawk is a rival fan who comes on here, and is never anything short of respectful. Perhaps because of the recruiting battle, the board is behaving with extraordinary defensiveness about this matchup. We're ranked #4. They're ranked #5. Why talk smack on an extremely talented opponent after a single game in which its starting point was suspended? Pride goeth before a fall, and all that. Let's treat this opponent with at least half the encomiums reserved for Bob McKillop's Davidson team.

ETA: freshmanjs beat me to it. Agreed on all points.

[JPtheGame]

Ease up. TexHawk is a rival fan who comes on here, and is never anything short of respectful. Perhaps because of the recruiting battle, the board is behaving with extraordinary defensiveness about this matchup. We're ranked #4. They're ranked #5. Why talk smack on an extremely talented opponent after a single game in which its starting point was suspended? Pride goeth before a fall, and all that. Let's treat this opponent with at least half the encomiums reserved for Bob McKillop's Davidson team.

ETA: freshmanjs beat me to it. Agreed on all points.

Saying that Kansas did a poor job of getting the ball inside and using actual stats to illustrate the point equals talking smack? This board is exhausting sometimes.

[Indoor66]

Saying that Kansas did a poor job of getting the ball inside and using actual stats to illustrate the point equals talking smack? This board is exhausting sometimes.

We do have some posters who are overly defensive of their own opinions and stated positions. :confused:

[JPtheGame]

As a newbie, I admittedly don't know all of the unwritten rules and I certainly dont want to hijack the thread with yet another discussion about what someone should have said or how they should have said it. I come in peace to talk Duke Hoops.
In that spirit, I wonder if Tharpe returning will solve the pg issue for KU or make it worse in that playing Duke is a tough draw if youre trying to knock of the rust.

[Henderson]

We're ranked #4. They're ranked #5.

What coaches and AP writers think are two metrics for rankings. Another involves mathematical/formulaic/computer analysis, of which I am skeptical.

There is another, where people with actual money (big money) on the line make their own predictions. There are no consequences for coaches or AP writers who get it wrong. There are real consequences here. I'm not saying it's a better metric, just another one with different attributes. It also doesn't purport to pick a winner in a head-to-head matchup (though we'll have that tomorrow). But as long as we're talking about rankings, here's one set.

Vegas Odds to Win the 2014 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship -- The Top 15

Kentucky -- 3/1
Kansas -- 4/1
Duke -- 8/1
Michigan State -- 10-1
Florida -- 12/1
Arizona -- 12/1
Louisville -- 12/1
Ohio State -- 15/1
Michigan -- 15/1
UNC -- 15/1
Syracuse -- 25/1
Oklahoma St. -- 25/1
Virginia -- 30/1
Georgetown -- 30/1
Indiana -- 30-1

Others of interest: Stanford, Oregon, and UCLA are each 50/1, Harvard is 100/1, Maryland is 150/1, NCSU, Notre Dame and FSU are each 75/1, Pitt is 40-1, and Davidson is 200/1.

[NSDukeFan]

As a newbie, I admittedly don't know all of the unwritten rules and I certainly dont want to hijack the thread with yet another discussion about what someone should have said or how they should have said it. I come in peace to talk Duke Hoops.
In that spirit, I wonder if Tharpe returning will solve the pg issue for KU or make it worse in that playing Duke is a tough draw if youre trying to knock of the rust.

The rules are actually written and are being updated. See Throatybeard's manifesto if you haven't already. Otherwise, keep sharing your opinion and people will agree and disagree with it, usually very respectfully and intelligently.

[NashvilleDevil]

What coaches and AP writers think are two metrics for rankings. Another involves mathematical/formulaic/computer analysis, of which I am skeptical.

There is another, where people with actual money (big money) on the line make their own predictions. There are no consequences for coaches or AP writers who get it wrong. There are real consequences here. I'm not saying it's a better metric, just another one with different attributes. It also doesn't purport to pick a winner in a head-to-head matchup (though we'll have that tomorrow). But as long as we're talking about rankings, here's one set.

Vegas Odds to Win the 2014 NCAA Men's Basketball Championship -- The Top 15

Kentucky -- 3/1
Kansas -- 4/1
Duke -- 8/1
Michigan State -- 10-1
Florida -- 12/1
Arizona -- 12/1
Louisville -- 12/1
Ohio State -- 15/1
Michigan -- 15/1
UNC -- 15/1
Syracuse -- 25/1
Oklahoma St. -- 25/1
Virginia -- 30/1
Georgetown -- 30/1
Indiana -- 30-1

Others of interest: Stanford, Oregon, and UCLA are each 50/1, Harvard is 100/1, Maryland is 150/1, NCSU, Notre Dame and FSU are each 75/1, Pitt is 40-1, and Davidson is 200/1.

What were Kentucky's early season odds last year?

[weezie]

I am of the very strong opinion that we will score more points than they will and that this fact will determine the outcome.


I am in complete agreement with this analysis.


Can not agree more.


I disagree int he strongest of terms.

MY gut tells me that our defense will prevent Kansas from scoring more points that we do, and THAT will bet he determinative factor.

I think I may have found a good golf fivesome. Or some drinking buds.

[kAzE]

Care to show where this preseason hype is? Andrew Wiggins is getting preseason hype. As is Joel Embiid. All Perry Ellis has is an honorable mention on the Big 12 preseason award list. KU fans are excited because he came on strong at the end of the year last year (10+ ppg over the last 10 games, Big12 Tourney MVP), and most fans would be ecstatic if he could keep that up for this entire year. But he's very clearly a four year player.

Take your pick-

Rant sports: http://www.rantsports.com/ncaa-basketball/2013/11/08/perry-ellis-must-lead-kansas-jayhawks/
Rock Chalk Talk: http://www.rockchalktalk.com/2013/11/5/5038792/returnee-profile-perry-ellis
ESPN: http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9307537/

He's not a projected preseason All-American, but people (Mainly the media, not neccessarily KU fans) are expecting him to make a big jump to all-conference type of production, and I don't know if he has that in him yet.


Rebounding and foul shooting. Those two things scare me, because they have been questionable. But for those two deficiencies, I'd really like our chances. As it is, I dunno. I say it's a pick 'em. Kansas will have its point guard back, and we aren't going to shoot 70+% against them. Nor will we likely commit only 4 turnovers against 16 assists. I liked what I saw against Davidson (except the aforementioned rebounding and FT stats), but we can't count on playing that well every game. One thing for sure: both teams are going to learn a lot about themselves in this one.

Wiggins? Known quantity, even as a freshman. We can manage him.


Keep in mind Amile Jefferson, who is most likely going to be our leading rebounder and shot blocker, was on the bench for much of the Davidson game due to foul trouble. Because of that, we went small for most of the game. I don't expect us to resort to this for as long a stretch against a bigger team like Kansas.

[conmanlhughes]

My prediction: Duke wins by 7 and Rodney Hood bursts onto the scene by guarding Wiggins and taking him down/ slowing him by a lot.

[kAzE]

My prediction: Duke wins by 7 and Rodney Hood bursts onto the scene by guarding Wiggins and taking him down/ slowing him by a lot.

Good call. Wiggins may have unbelievable potential as a pro, but he's not even close to that point yet. I also expect Rodney to school the youngster in this early season matchup.

[Indoor66]

I think I may have found a good golf fivesome. Or some drinking buds.I wish we could all be in ChiTown and go out after viewing the victory! :cool:

[NYBri]

I think I may have found a good golf fivesome. Or some drinking buds.

Fore!

[NYBri]

I wish we could all be in ChiTown and go out after viewing the victory! :cool:

There you go! I'm there in spirit!

[CoachJ10]

In addition to the outstanding shooting performance that was on display Friday night...the other glaring take-away from the game (in my opinion) was the "new" emphasis on calling fouls. Perusing other box scores from this past weekend...it seems to not be isolated. If more fouls are going to be called this season...we might have to re-assess what is needed to be successful under those rules.

It could just be that having depth...and quality depth at that...might be the key to adapting to these 50+ free throw games.

As an aside, I am all for the DE-big tenification of college basketball (cutting down on grabbing, holding, chucking, etc.)...but the pendulum usually swings a little too far when trying to find the optimal equilibrium. So if we are in for a season with whistle happy refs...having 10+ players who can play...could be a great advantage that we might not appreciate just yet.

The games on Tuesday could be a good insight into some of the top teams in the country...and how they can handle the new reffing landscape.

[Des Esseintes]

In addition to the outstanding shooting performance that was on display Friday night...the other glaring take-away from the game (in my opinion) was the "new" emphasis on calling fouls. Perusing other box scores from this past weekend...it seems to not be isolated. If more fouls are going to be called this season...we might have to re-assess what is needed to be successful under those rules.

It could just be that having depth...and quality depth at that...might be the key to adapting to these 50+ free throw games.

As an aside, I am all for the DE-big tenification of college basketball (cutting down on grabbing, holding, chucking, etc.)...but the pendulum usually swings a little too far when trying to find the optimal equilibrium. So if we are in for a season with whistle happy refs...having 10+ players who can play...could be a great advantage that we might not appreciate just yet.

The games on Tuesday could be a good insight into some of the top teams in the country...and how they can handle the new reffing landscape.
Maybe. If I were a coach, I would bet on the new emphases to last as long as those of the past. Which is to say I would change almost nothing and wait for inertia to drag play back to what it's been for years. Maybe this new stuff will stick. I sure hope so. But if my job depended on it, I know how I would respond.

[OldPhiKap]

I think I may have found a good golf fivesome. Or some drinking buds.

.... And the difference is?

[OldPhiKap]

I wish we could all be in ChiTown and go out after viewing the victory! :cool:

We may have to settle with a New Year's Eve toast at a bowl, if things fall right.

[kAzE]

In addition to the outstanding shooting performance that was on display Friday night...the other glaring take-away from the game (in my opinion) was the "new" emphasis on calling fouls. Perusing other box scores from this past weekend...it seems to not be isolated. If more fouls are going to be called this season...we might have to re-assess what is needed to be successful under those rules.

It could just be that having depth...and quality depth at that...might be the key to adapting to these 50+ free throw games.

As an aside, I am all for the DE-big tenification of college basketball (cutting down on grabbing, holding, chucking, etc.)...but the pendulum usually swings a little too far when trying to find the optimal equilibrium. So if we are in for a season with whistle happy refs...having 10+ players who can play...could be a great advantage that we might not appreciate just yet.

The games on Tuesday could be a good insight into some of the top teams in the country...and how they can handle the new reffing landscape.

I think teams are going to slowly adapt to the new rules, meaning the number of fouls will decrease as the season progresses. Teams are going to have to learn how to play defense legally at some point. The college game in recent years has been incredibly physical, even more so than the NBA, so there is going to be an adjustment period, where everyone is fouling a lot. Once coaches and players get used the new way the game is being called, allowing for more offensive movement, the game will become more watchable and free flowing. It's a good thing, and I applaud the NCAA for doing something right for once. In the meantime, this style of officiating is going to help Duke. We have so many guys capable of getting in the paint and creating contact, it's going to be rough for opposing front lines trying to avoid foul trouble.

[-jk]

I certainly hope this is the case. I fear the refs will relax the standards as the year goes on, and March will be it's usual slugfest.

-jk

[BD80]

I think I may have found a good golf fivesome. Or some drinking buds.


.... And the difference is?

Golfers have a reason to drink

[OldPhiKap]

Golfers have a reason to drink

Drinkers have a reason to golf.

Never ask a Navy man if he'll have another!

[DukeAlumBS]

Drinkers have a reason to golf.

Never ask a Navy man if he'll have another!

Wake up on Veterans day and read this. This is very funny! Nice day my friends, Jimmy

[TexHawk]

TexHawk, I'm curious; will you be pulling for Kansas to win this game?

What gave it away? ;)


As far any sort of prediction from my end, I think this will be a difficult game for KU. As I have said a few times on here since the Wiggins signing, this team will take a while to figure things out. For the first time in Bill Self's KU tenure, he has high quality D1 players 1-10, and he normally likes an 8 man rotation. That means there will be a lot of experimental lineups, and maybe some guys forcing a play or two to get "noticed" early. Embiid and Wiggins have so much talent, it just pops off the screen when you watch them, but they just need to calm down and breathe. I would love love love to see this game in February, March, or April.

Historically, Bill Self coached teams have looked average-to-awful in early November, and really seem to gel over the winter break. KU has lost the first two games in this champions classic thing, and generally looked like dog excrement both years. They didn't belong on the same court with a bunch of UK freshman two years ago, and Keith Appling made them look pretty awful defensively in the closing minutes last year. On the bright side, those teams rebounded to win the conference both years, and one made the national championship game. But both of those teams featured upperclassmen leadership, so I shudder a bit when I think about this team's psyche for this Duke game.

CAN KU win? Of course. Two possibilities...
(1) Tharpe helps immensely, gets the ball inside to big guys in position to score. This would be the gameplan if we were to play in March, and it might be the gameplan on Tuesday, but I have doubts about the execution. Tharpe will get the big guys more than 12 shots, but not enough to make a huge difference imo. The main reason I say this is I don't really think Tharpe is that good. He's serviceable as a ball handler and free throw shooter, but if he is THE critical piece in March, it means the young guys haven't progressed, and KU has had a rough season.

(2) I hate to say this, but if the game goes "streetball", KU has a pretty good chance. Two years ago, in the 2nd half against UK, KU could not do anything offensively. Every set play they ran was blown up by MKG or Anthony Davis. It got to the point that Self just rolled the ball out and told Tyshawn Taylor to go to the basket every time he touched the ball. That sorta worked, it became competitive, and we got a semi-respectable 10 point loss (compared to a 30 point blowout it was about to become).

I could see Self doing the same in this game, because of the officiating. He is not a fan of the emphasis on the rules so far, and in frustration after the ULM game, he was quoted as saying "if you have guys that can drive, they need to just go to the basket every time they touch the ball". Wiggins and Wayne Selden are especially skilled in that area, so if the game is being called closely, KU can stay in the game by taking advantage.


I hope that doesn't come across as hedging. When the ball is tipped, I will be all-in on this game. I really really like this KU team, they have everything you could possibly want from a basketball team (outside of senior leadership, I suppose). Athleticism, perimeter shooting, unselfishness, depth, shot-blocking, toughness... you name it. They just need to tie it all together.


Here's to a great game, hopefully no injuries, and a rematch in early April.

[DukeAlumBS]

Good call. Wiggins may have unbelievable potential as a pro, but he's not even close to that point yet. I also expect Rodney to school the youngster in this early season matchup.

I think Rodney will be a great match for the young Wiggins and will limit Wiggins game plan. Rodney is more quick/athletic as a wing as well. This is the match I hope for. Go Duke by 75!
Jimmy

[MCFinARL]

Here's to a great game, hopefully no injuries, and a rematch in early April.

Amen to this.

[slower]

I think Rodney will be a great match for the young Wiggins and will limit Wiggins game plan. Rodney is more quick/athletic as a wing as well. This is the match I hope for. Go Duke by 75!
Jimmy

If you're saying that Rodney is more athletic than Wiggins, then you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

If that's not what you're saying, then what ARE you saying?

[sagegrouse]

If you're saying that Rodney is more athletic than Wiggins, then you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

If that's not what you're saying, then what ARE you saying?

Easy there, big guy! Easy!

sage

[DukeAlumBS]

If you're saying that Rodney is more athletic than Wiggins, then you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

If that's not what you're saying, then what ARE you saying?

Rodney will have his day with the team there. Or Parker. I like Rodney in this matchup against Wiggins (Frosh!) He is the more talented in this one!
Have nice day,
Jimmy

[moonpie23]

the REAL match up may very well be the underlying coaching "shows"…..i still think Pitino learned more about US last year in the Bahamas than we learned about THEM……..now the x-factor of the louisville player injury could have contributed, but i still think pitino did not show his full hand…


this is going to be a chess match in BOTH Games…

[bbosbbos]

btw, I still believe we would have won the title last year if that tragedy did not happen.



the REAL match up may very well be the underlying coaching "shows"…..i still think Pitino learned more about US last year in the Bahamas than we learned about THEM……..now the x-factor of the louisville player injury could have contributed, but i still think pitino did not show his full hand…


this is going to be a chess match in BOTH Games…

[DukeAlumBS]

If you're saying that Rodney is more athletic than Wiggins, then you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

If that's not what you're saying, then what ARE you saying?

I saw your comment my dear friend. I do have a clue about what I am talking about.
First I am a gentleman. I am kind to people. I served 25 years in the service. Just so dummies such as you, can make rude comments. You have me to thank for your right to speech. You are welcome for that comment.

Gentlemen, this is a Duke forum. We are all excited about our teams. This gentleman, does not grasp my knowledge about the team. And that is sad.
We will see tomorrow.
Slower, you have no clue. You are not a gentleman. I can imagine after what I read. Hood will school Wiggins!

Go Duke by 50
Later

[jaredv]

Appears Duke has opened up as a 3.5 point favorite against Kansas

[DukeAlumBS]

Appears Duke has opened up as a 3.5 point favorite against Kansas

That is nice start. Thank you for posting. Going to enjoy my Glenlivet 12. My routine six shooter!
Have nice day
Jimmy

[FerryFor50]

I saw your comment my dear friend. I do have a clue about what I am talking about.
First I am a gentleman. I am kind to people. I served 25 years in the service. Just so dummies such as you, can make rude comments. You have me to thank for your right to speech. You are welcome for that comment.

Gentlemen, this is a Duke forum. We are all excited about our teams. This gentleman, does not grasp my knowledge about the team. And that is sad.
We will see tomorrow.
Slower, you have no clue. You are not a gentleman. I can imagine after what I read. Hood will school Wiggins!

Go Duke by 50
Later

I don't know that Hood is more athletic than Wiggins, but it's close. What I do know is that athleticism means little when considering talent. I think Hood/Wiggins is a much better matchup than Parker/Wiggins, however. I don't think Parker could keep up with Wiggins. Will be interesting to see if Wiggins comes out assertive or timid like last game...

[DukieInBrasil]

I saw your comment my dear friend. I do have a clue about what I am talking about.
First I am a gentleman. I am kind to people. I served 25 years in the service. Just so dummies such as you, can make rude comments. You have me to thank for your right to speech. You are welcome for that comment.

Gentlemen, this is a Duke forum. We are all excited about our teams. This gentleman, does not grasp my knowledge about the team. And that is sad.
We will see tomorrow.
Slower, you have no clue. You are not a gentleman. I can imagine after what I read. Hood will school Wiggins!

Go Duke by 50
Later

Hood may be a better player at the moment, he is not more athletic than Wiggins though. You are the one who claimed Wiggins to be less athletic than Hood. That is the point the OP was bringing up.
The rest of your comment is, well, i wouldn't want to sound ungentelmanly now would i?

[Billy Dat]

I don't know that Hood is more athletic than Wiggins, but it's close. What I do know is that athleticism means little when considering talent. I think Hood/Wiggins is a much better matchup than Parker/Wiggins, however. I don't think Parker could keep up with Wiggins. Will be interesting to see if Wiggins comes out assertive or timid like last game...

Considering that every NBA front office is going to be represented at the United Center tomorrow, I expect nearly every player in both games is going to be coming out hyper assertive in a "chicken with heads cut off" manner.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I have to agree with slower. Wiggins may have the best blend of quicks, agility, strength, and length in college ball. Maybe for the last half decade. His long term potential is insane.

But, right now, I would take Hood in a heartbeat. Hood is very athletic, plays great D, and, most importantly, has two years of experience under NCAA coaches (including 1 under the best coach alive). His experience + talent + athleticism > the athleticism + talent of Wiggins.

Also, I don't think slower was that out of line with his response. I think you're being too harsh on him.

[FerryFor50]

Considering that every NBA front office is going to be represented at the United Center tomorrow, I expect nearly every player in both games is going to be coming out hyper assertive in a "chicken with heads cut off" manner.

Maybe. I think Wiggins knows he's going top 3 regardless, though. :)

[sagegrouse]

Hood may be a better player at the moment, he is not more athletic than Wiggins though. You are the one who claimed Wiggins to be less athletic than Hood. That is the point the OP was bringing up.
The rest of your comment is, well, i wouldn't want to sound ungentelmanly now would i?

Hey, Dukie in Brasil: I read in the paper today that Brasil has English language schools on every street corner in preparation for the 2014 World Cup and the 2016 Olympics. Is this true? I never found a place in South America where English could be easily used (never been to Guyana -- hah!). Would you offer us some comment, maybe in the OT Forum, of Brasil's prep for the World Cup and your astute observations?

sagegrouse

[slower]

Hood may be a better player at the moment, he is not more athletic than Wiggins though. You are the one who claimed Wiggins to be less athletic than Hood. That is the point the OP was bringing up.
The rest of your comment is, well, i wouldn't want to sound ungentelmanly now would i?

Sometimes I wonder if some of the online identities on DBR are made up just to mess with us. I can only imagine some guy sitting back, laughing maniacally, as the rest of us repeatedly face palm ourselves.

Good day, friends.

[slower]

I saw your comment my dear friend. I do have a clue about what I am talking about.
First I am a gentleman. I am kind to people. I served 25 years in the service. Just so dummies such as you, can make rude comments. You have me to thank for your right to speech. You are welcome for that comment.

Gentlemen, this is a Duke forum. We are all excited about our teams. This gentleman, does not grasp my knowledge about the team. And that is sad.
We will see tomorrow.
Slower, you have no clue. You are not a gentleman. I can imagine after what I read. Hood will school Wiggins!

Go Duke by 50
Later

Thank you for protecting my freedom, and the language that I hold dear.

[slower]

I have to agree with slower. Wiggins may have the best blend of quicks, agility, strength, and length in college ball. Maybe for the last half decade. His long term potential is insane.

But, right now, I would take Hood in a heartbeat. Hood is very athletic, plays great D, and, most importantly, has two years of experience under NCAA coaches (including 1 under the best coach alive). His experience + talent + athleticism > the athleticism + talent of Wiggins.

Also, I don't think slower was that out of line with his response. I think you're being too harsh on him.

And don't get me wrong. I love Hood. LOVE his game. As of TODAY, I would also take him over Wiggins.

[DukeAlumBS]

Thank you for protecting my freedom, and the language that I hold dear.

Let me educate. I was not asking. Get on track to the forum.
Give it up
Jim

[superdave]

What gave it away? ;)


As far any sort of prediction from my end, I think this will be a difficult game for KU. As I have said a few times on here since the Wiggins signing, this team will take a while to figure things out. For the first time in Bill Self's KU tenure, he has high quality D1 players 1-10, and he normally likes an 8 man rotation. That means there will be a lot of experimental lineups, and maybe some guys forcing a play or two to get "noticed" early. Embiid and Wiggins have so much talent, it just pops off the screen when you watch them, but they just need to calm down and breathe. I would love love love to see this game in February, March, or April.

Historically, Bill Self coached teams have looked average-to-awful in early November, and really seem to gel over the winter break. KU has lost the first two games in this champions classic thing, and generally looked like dog excrement both years. They didn't belong on the same court with a bunch of UK freshman two years ago, and Keith Appling made them look pretty awful defensively in the closing minutes last year. On the bright side, those teams rebounded to win the conference both years, and one made the national championship game. But both of those teams featured upperclassmen leadership, so I shudder a bit when I think about this team's psyche for this Duke game.

CAN KU win? Of course. Two possibilities...
(1) Tharpe helps immensely, gets the ball inside to big guys in position to score. This would be the gameplan if we were to play in March, and it might be the gameplan on Tuesday, but I have doubts about the execution. Tharpe will get the big guys more than 12 shots, but not enough to make a huge difference imo. The main reason I say this is I don't really think Tharpe is that good. He's serviceable as a ball handler and free throw shooter, but if he is THE critical piece in March, it means the young guys haven't progressed, and KU has had a rough season.

(2) I hate to say this, but if the game goes "streetball", KU has a pretty good chance. Two years ago, in the 2nd half against UK, KU could not do anything offensively. Every set play they ran was blown up by MKG or Anthony Davis. It got to the point that Self just rolled the ball out and told Tyshawn Taylor to go to the basket every time he touched the ball. That sorta worked, it became competitive, and we got a semi-respectable 10 point loss (compared to a 30 point blowout it was about to become).

I could see Self doing the same in this game, because of the officiating. He is not a fan of the emphasis on the rules so far, and in frustration after the ULM game, he was quoted as saying "if you have guys that can drive, they need to just go to the basket every time they touch the ball". Wiggins and Wayne Selden are especially skilled in that area, so if the game is being called closely, KU can stay in the game by taking advantage.


I hope that doesn't come across as hedging. When the ball is tipped, I will be all-in on this game. I really really like this KU team, they have everything you could possibly want from a basketball team (outside of senior leadership, I suppose). Athleticism, perimeter shooting, unselfishness, depth, shot-blocking, toughness... you name it. They just need to tie it all together.


Here's to a great game, hopefully no injuries, and a rematch in early April.

TexHawk -

Duke guarded the 3-point area against Davidson and played small for a third of the game. It is safe to assume that Duke will play small at least some tomorrow night. What would Self's response be with Embiid and Black, to sit them and respond with Ellis at the 5 and Wiggins at the 4? Or does he go with the odd matchups and hope to exploit Duke in the paint?

[FerryFor50]

Let me educate. I was not asking. Get on track to the forum.
Give it up
Jim

I'm pretty sure slower was being sincere and "giving up" on the argument. How about you get back on topic? :)

[flyingdutchdevil]

What I hope happens:
-Because it's really early in the year, one team may get blown out (and odds are Kansas may)
-Amile gets a double-double and is the MOTM
-Cook proves to be a top 5 PG in the country during this game

What I think will happen:
-Hood will go off for 20+ points
-Rasheed will come in with a massive chip on this shoulder and absolutely shut down Wayne Jr.
-Our 5s can't successfully guard their opposing 5, leading to a significantly higher proportion of Kansas points in the paint
-Wiggins nor Jabari will not be the best player on the floor
-We will shoot at least 30 free throws
-Coach K does NOT go to Wiggins to personally congratulate him (Coach K does with with a lot of really good opposing players, but Wiggins won't be one of them)
-There will be at least 1 intentional foul, especially with all the breakaways

What I know will happen:
-With all these ridiculous athletes on the floor, there will be at least 1 play that is played over and over again on Sportscenter.
-Duke will win. But not with ease.

[freshmanjs]

What I hope happens:
-Because it's really early in the year, one team may get blown out (and odds are Kansas may)
-Amile gets a double-double and is the MOTM
-Cook proves to be a top 5 PG in the country during this game

What I think will happen:
-Hood will go off for 20+ points
-Rasheed will come in with a massive chip on this shoulder and absolutely shut down Wayne Jr.
-Our 5s can't successfully guard their opposing 5, leading to a significantly higher proportion of Kansas points in the paint
-Wiggins nor Jabari will not be the best player on the floor
-We will shoot at least 30 free throws
-Coach K does NOT go to Wiggins to personally congratulate him (Coach K does with with a lot of really good opposing players, but Wiggins won't be one of them)
-There will be at least 1 intentional foul, especially with all the breakaways

What I know will happen:
-With all these ridiculous athletes on the floor, there will be at least 1 play that is played over and over again on Sportscenter.
-Duke will win. But not with ease.

why would coach k not congratulate wiggins?

[Henderson]

Duke opened as a 3 ½ point favorite, and the early money immediately pushed it to 4 ½.

Michigan State opened as a 2 ½ point favorite over Kentucky, and that quickly got pushed to 3 ½.

That early money is usually wise guys looking to take advantage of the house's not getting the line "right." And these guys don't dance. But they come back just before game time to see if the unwashed have pushed the line out of whack again. Early money, late money.

[Billy Dat]

TexHawk - Duke guarded the 3-point area against Davidson and played small for a third of the game. It is safe to assume that Duke will play small at least some tomorrow night. What would Self's response be with Embiid and Black, to sit them and respond with Ellis at the 5 and Wiggins at the 4? Or does he go with the odd matchups and hope to exploit Duke in the paint?

While we wait for TexHawk's response, this is a key, if not the key, aspect of the match-up.

Based on what we've seen so far, I think it's safe to say that Duke's default is playing small. The only time someone over 6'9" is on the floor is when Marshall plays. Then again, upon closer inspection, Kansas is in the same boat. Embid is their only rotation player over 6'9". Granted, especially with Black, they've got a weight advantage, but it's not like we're facing a 6'10" and up front line.

After the Davidson game, I imagine we'll see Duke start by trying to get Hood and Parker the ball in face-up, triple threat dribble drive scenarios where they will try and get a step on their man forcing the defense to help and creating openings for others or shots for themselves. Will Duke be able to draw fouls? Will Kansas give them 3 feet of space and challenge them to hit mid range jumpers all game with the confidence that they can limit Duke to one shot?

If I am Kansas, I try to go right at Parker and Hood in the post, testing the new rules on "no forearm bars". I'd be trying to get 2 fouls on each of those guys as quickly as I could. Can Duke guard the post without fouling, and can they limit Kansas' productivity on the offensive glass?

Sadly, I feel like first half foul trouble, and foul trouble in general, will be a big story line. I feel good that after Parker and Hood, we've seen 20+ scoring chops from Quinn and Rasheed and scoring aggressiveness from Amile and Jones.

[FerryFor50]

why would coach k not congratulate wiggins?

Yea, K is not one to hold grudges against recruits not picking Duke. Wiggins didn't pull a Harry Barnes, so I can't see why K wouldn't congratulate the kid. Wiggins seems like a very bright and decent guy.

[Billy Dat]

why would coach k not congratulate wiggins?

He'll definitely speak to him, and I think he'll say 3 things:

1. "Nice game, son" - with chest pat
2. "Canada could really use you on their national team, Tristan Thompson isn't the beast the coach Triano needs"
3. "You were smart to head to Lawrence instead of Chapel Hill, but you may never learn Swahili"

[flyingdutchdevil]

why would coach k not congratulate wiggins?

I should have been more clear. Historically, Coach K congratulates players who a) have a reputation and b) played extremely well against Duke. If I'm not mistaken, Coach K did this a few times with the Ty Lawson at the expense of doing it for Hansborough. Coach K can't do it for every Kansas player or else we'd be here all day.

I would like to think that Coach K isn't putting Wiggins on a pedestal. Rather, Coach K will congratulate the best Kansas player who played the best. And I don't think that's going to be Wiggins.

Just a gut feeling.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yea, K is not one to hold grudges against recruits not picking Duke. Wiggins didn't pull a Harry Barnes, so I can't see why K wouldn't congratulate the kid. Wiggins seems like a very bright and decent guy.

Has nothing to do with holding a grudge rather than Wiggins hasn't accomplished anything yet. Coach K generally reaches out to experienced players on the opposing team rather than Wiggins.

Let's just say I'd be surprised if Coach K reached out to Wiggins and Wiggins didn't have a good game.

[Henderson]

Yea, K is not one to hold grudges against recruits not picking Duke. Wiggins didn't pull a Harry Barnes, so I can't see why K wouldn't congratulate the kid. Wiggins seems like a very bright and decent guy.

I don't remember an example of Coach K saying bad things ever about a guy for choosing another school. But I don't follow the minutiae 24/7.

I like Wiggins both as a person (from what I've read) and a player. One thing that bugged me recently: He told Jay Bilas his two goals for this year were 1. Winning a natty; and 2. Being the first player selected in the draft next year. Maybe it's refreshing honesty, but it struck me as being immature. Maybe it's BS when they say it, but I like to hear things like, "I want to listen to my coaches, help my team, get an education, and work on the things in my game that I could improve upon so we can be successful as a team, and I can make my family proud."

It's not always BS when you hear that. I like the guys who, when they say it, seem to mean it. So props to Wiggins for being honest, but his goals for this year seem pretty Andrew-centric (though good for everyone to win a natty, of course, if Andrew Wiggins does). Back to the maturity thing. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out for Kansas.

[mgtr]

I don't remember an example of Coach K saying bad things ever about a guy for choosing another school. But I don't follow the minutiae 24/7.

I like Wiggins both as a person (from what I've read) and a player. One thing that bugged me recently: He told Jay Bilas his two goals for this year were 1. Winning a natty; and 2. Being the first player selected in the draft next year. Maybe it's refreshing honesty, but it struck me as being immature. Maybe it's BS when they say it, but I like to hear things like, "I want to listen to my coaches, help my team, get an education, and work on the things in my game that I could improve upon so we can be successful as a team, and I can make my family proud."

It's not always BS when you hear that. I like the guys who, when they say it, seem to mean it. So props to Wiggins for being honest, but his goals for this year seem pretty Andrew-centric (though good for everyone to win a natty, of course, if Andrew Wiggins does). Back to the maturity thing. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out for Kansas.

My mind-o-meter isn't working just now, but I would give strong odds that Wiggins would gladly give up a natty if he does get first overall in the draft. Money talks. Plus, we won't let him get our ntional championship!

[killerleft]

What I hope happens:
-Because it's really early in the year, one team may get blown out (and odds are Kansas may)
-Amile gets a double-double and is the MOTM
-Cook proves to be a top 5 PG in the country during this game

What I think will happen:
-Hood will go off for 20+ points
-Rasheed will come in with a massive chip on this shoulder and absolutely shut down Wayne Jr.
-Our 5s can't successfully guard their opposing 5, leading to a significantly higher proportion of Kansas points in the paint
-Wiggins nor Jabari will not be the best player on the floor
-We will shoot at least 30 free throws
-Coach K does NOT go to Wiggins to personally congratulate him (Coach K does with with a lot of really good opposing players, but Wiggins won't be one of them)-There will be at least 1 intentional foul, especially with all the breakaways

What I know will happen:
-With all these ridiculous athletes on the floor, there will be at least 1 play that is played over and over again on Sportscenter.
-Duke will win. But not with ease.

I can't see any scenario short of unsportmanlike conduct from the young man that would keep Coach K from consoling Mr. Wiggins after game. After all, Coach K is representing USA Basketball as well as Duke, and Wiggins is by most accounts certainly going to be offered a spot on the Olympic Team one day.

[TexHawk]

TexHawk -

Duke guarded the 3-point area against Davidson and played small for a third of the game. It is safe to assume that Duke will play small at least some tomorrow night. What would Self's response be with Embiid and Black, to sit them and respond with Ellis at the 5 and Wiggins at the 4? Or does he go with the odd matchups and hope to exploit Duke in the paint?

KU's 3 games this year have been on ESPN3, so I have not been able to see every possession. I do not recall seeing a "small" lineup with Wiggins at the 4, I could easily be wrong though. Maybe they have been holding that package back for the Duke game, but I highly doubt it.

"Wiggins at the 4" was a hotly contested topic all summer amongst the lunatic KU fan fringe. Basically, half think that Self would be crazy to put his best asset in the paint too much, and the other half think he'd be a great mismatch against certain teams.

To answer your question: I have no idea. But Self is a pretty flexible coach, so I wouldn't be surprised if he tries it over a few possessions, just to see if it works.

[Zeb]

I am kind to people...

Just so dummies such as you, can make rude comments...

Slower, you have no clue. You are not a gentleman.

MEMO TO: Kettle
FROM: Pot
RE: Darkness

:p

[Henderson]

Why does Embid come off the bench if he's so spectacular a pro prospect? Does Kansas bury its promising big men? Embid doesn't like to set screens?

But seriously, has he not learned the system well yet? Too raw yet? Are Black, Traylor, and Ellis all better than him at this point?

[FerryFor50]

Why does Embid come off the bench if he's so spectacular a pro prospect? Does Kansas bury its promising big men? Embid doesn't like to set screens?

But seriously, has he not learned the system well yet? Too raw yet? Are Black, Traylor, and Ellis all better than him?

All of the above. :)

Being a pro prospect does not equate guaranteed playing time. Dion Waiters came off the bench at Syracuse. Russell Westbrook backed up Darren Collison at UCLA.

[wk2109]

I can't see any scenario short of unsportmanlike conduct from the young man that would keep Coach K from consoling Mr. Wiggins after game. After all, Coach K is representing USA Basketball as well as Duke, and Wiggins is by most accounts certainly going to be offered a spot on the Olympic Team one day.

I don't think flyingdutchdevil meant K would ignore Wiggins -- I took it as a prediction that K would not personally take Wiggins aside after the game to compliment/congratulate him. An example of K doing this was after the Battle 4 Atlantis championship game last year, when he pulled aside Peyton Siva and Russ Smith for what was reported to be an R-rated conversation during which K was full of praise for the two players.

Also, Wiggins is Canadian, so he won't be playing for Team USA in the future.

[TexHawk]

Why does Embid come off the bench if he's so spectacular a pro prospect? Does Kansas bury its promising big men? Embid doesn't like to set screens?

But seriously, has he not learned the system well yet? Too raw yet? Are Black, Traylor, and Ellis all better than him at this point?

Embiid played 16 minutes in the 1st exhibition. 15 in the 2nd. He played 11 against ULM, with foul trouble (but he shot 12 free throws!). That's about in line with what other freshman post players averaged in their first seasons. Sasha Kaun, Darrell Arthur, Morris (X2), Cole Aldrich, Thomas Robinson, and Jeff Withey all came off the bench when they got to Lawrence. There have always been more experienced guys ahead of them in the rotation. By the time January rolls around, Embiid may not be starting, but I bet he will have the 2nd most mpg among the big men (behind Ellis). Bill Self has started many freshman perimeter players (Rush, Henry, McLemore), but very few post players. Marcus Morris eventually started as a freshman, but it took him half the season to get there.

Embiid is just dripping with promise, but most KU fans have come to grips with the fact that we won't see most of it in Lawrence. He had a sequence in the 2nd exhibition game where he put up a gorgeous right handed baby hook one time down, and the next possession he put up the exact same hook, but left-handed. It was beautiful. You can see where the Olajuwan comparison comes from. Unfortunately, he was caught out of position defensively several times, which plants you on the bench next to Coach Self.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't think flyingdutchdevil meant K would ignore Wiggins -- I took it as a prediction that K would not personally take Wiggins aside after the game to compliment/congratulate him. An example of K doing this was after the Battle 4 Atlantis championship game last year, when he pulled aside Peyton Siva and Russ Smith for what was reported to be an R-rated conversation during which K was full of praise for the two players.

Also, Wiggins is Canadian, so he won't be playing for Team USA in the future.

Thank you for articulating what I could not. This is exactly what I meant.

[DukieInBrasil]

Hey, Dukie in Brasil: I read in the paper today that Brasil has English language schools on every street corner in preparation for the 2014 World Cup and the 2016 Olympics. Is this true? I never found a place in South America where English could be easily used (never been to Guyana -- hah!). Would you offer us some comment, maybe in the OT Forum, of Brasil's prep for the World Cup and your astute observations?

sagegrouse
Sage,

here's my relatively uninformed futebol analysis re: Brasil's World Cup chances: http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?31042-CONCACAF-World-Cup-Qualifying&p=675373#post675373

and yes, English language training has ramped up big time. I wouldn't say that English is easily used in Brasil, but in cities with lots of foreign tourism (ie., most World Cup host cities in Brasil) most hotels will have someone who can reasonably be helpful.

[DukeAlumBS]

Spread up to 5 now.

My "apologies" to the forum I get out of hand. Very intense fan, and take things to heart.
Let it be.

I truly feel Hood will be a better match up with Wiggins.
I am hoping to see him play him.
I feel the 3 is going to be a factor to our advantage. One of the sports columns has us winning by 10.
I think we will do a Davidson on them and win by 7!
Have nice day gentlemen
Jimmy

[Troublemaker]

Did anyone notice Amile making angry layup faces in the 2nd half against Davidson? He was, I think, upset that he picked up two quick fouls, had to sit, and couldn't get into the flow of this game til late in the second half when he went on his garbage time angry face layup buckets binge.

I think Amile will be very motivated to bounce back from that Davidson game to give us something really good against Kansas.

I don't think we need a heroic rebounding performance from him (although that'd be nice). Against big teams, I've sort of conceded the rebounding battle, but it'll be okay because I expect Duke to be great in so many other areas. And Amile can play a part in that. I think he can face up some of Kansas' big men and drive by them for layups or fouls. I think he can switch onto and sometimes hedge/trap onto a perimeter player and surprise them with his length and quickness, causing a turnover. I think he can cut into seams in the defense and convert layups when one of our talented creators drives and dumps the ball to him. I concede the rebounding but I don't concede that we lose the overall battle at the 5. Amile's a good player and I hope/think he shows his goods tonight.

[Kedsy]

Did anyone notice Amile making angry layup faces in the 2nd half against Davidson? He was, I think, upset that he picked up two quick fouls, had to sit, and couldn't get into the flow of this game til late in the second half when he went on his garbage time angry face layup buckets binge.

I think Amile will be very motivated to bounce back from that Davidson game to give us something really good against Kansas.

I don't think we need a heroic rebounding performance from him (although that'd be nice). Against big teams, I've sort of conceded the rebounding battle, but it'll be okay because I expect Duke to be great in so many other areas. And Amile can play a part in that. I think he can face up some of Kansas' big men and drive by them for layups or fouls. I think he can switch onto and sometimes hedge/trap onto a perimeter player and surprise them with his length and quickness, causing a turnover. I think he can cut into seams in the defense and convert layups when one of our talented creators drives and dumps the ball to him. I concede the rebounding but I don't concede that we lose the overall battle at the 5. Amile's a good player and I hope/think he shows his goods tonight.

I was thinking the same thing last night. I'm hoping the Kansas game could be a breakout game for Amile.

[CDu]

I can't see any scenario short of unsportmanlike conduct from the young man that would keep Coach K from consoling Mr. Wiggins after game. After all, Coach K is representing USA Basketball as well as Duke, and Wiggins is by most accounts certainly going to be offered a spot on the Olympic Team one day.

The implied statement that Team USA would offer Wiggins a spot would be quite surprising, as Wiggins is Canadian...

That being said, I too would be shocked for Coach K not to speak to Wiggins post game.

[JNort]

We win this game fairly easily for a game of top 5 opponents. Duke by 11+

[superdave]

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation

Eamon Brennan attempts to scout tonight's game. He says for Kansas to win Wiggins will have to dominate. He also says Parker and Wiggins will guard each other.

I think for Kansas to win, their front line will have to dominate the paint and help control the pace. I also think with Embiid/Black splitting the 5, Ellis at the 4 and Wiggins at the 3, Wiggins and Hood will more than likely match up with each other than Wiggins and Parker. Brennan also calls Dawkins a junior. Get this guy a research assistant....

[flyingdutchdevil]

The implied statement that Team USA would offer Wiggins a spot would be quite surprising, as Wiggins is Canadian...

That being said, I too would be shocked for Coach K not to speak to Wiggins post game.

I would be surprised if Coach K did, especially if Wiggins doesn't produce. If Tarik Black goes for 16 & 12 and Wiggins only 8 & 3 (all hypothetical, of course), I'd be shocked if Coach K doesn't go to Black first (and then possibly Wiggins).

Coach K only has a few precious moments, and we'll go to established, well-deserving players rather than players who are all the hype coming into school.

[FerryFor50]

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation

Eamon Brennan attempts to scout tonight's game. He says for Kansas to win Wiggins will have to dominate. He also says Parker and Wiggins will guard each other.

I think for Kansas to win, their front line will have to dominate the paint and help control the pace. I also think with Embiid/Black splitting the 5, Ellis at the 4 and Wiggins at the 3, Wiggins and Hood will more than likely match up with each other than Wiggins and Parker. Brennan also calls Dawkins a junior. Get this guy a research assistant....

I don't think Parker and Wiggins will guard each other exclusively. I expect to see multiple players on Wiggins, including Hood and Parker, and maybe Jones and Sheed.

[CDu]

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation

Eamon Brennan attempts to scout tonight's game. He says for Kansas to win Wiggins will have to dominate. He also says Parker and Wiggins will guard each other.

I think for Kansas to win, their front line will have to dominate the paint and help control the pace. I also think with Embiid/Black splitting the 5, Ellis at the 4 and Wiggins at the 3, Wiggins and Hood will more than likely match up with each other than Wiggins and Parker. Brennan also calls Dawkins a junior. Get this guy a research assistant....

I would be a bit surprised to see Parker guarding Wiggins. I know that he did so in the high school all-star games, but he has a different role on this team. Parker has, through 2 exhibitions and one game, played defensively primarily (though certainly not exclusively) against the opposing team's biggest player. If that trend continues, I'd expect Parker to spend quite a bit of his time guarding one of Kansas's bigs.

Unless Kansas goes small and puts Wiggins at PF, or unless Coach K decides to put Hood on a PF/C, I'd expect Parker not to guard Wiggins very often. And unless Self decides to put a big guy on Hood, I'd be surprised to see Wiggins guarding Parker either.

[DukeAlumBS]

I got the USA today magazine as one of a few I read college journal. There is a quote by NCSU Coach Mark Godfried and he states "There is a lot of attention around Jabari Parker. Wait until you see Rodney Hood. He is that good" I thought this was kind on his part! That was a motivator for me.
OK ground zero. Rodney Hood will school Wiggins. He has a plan to!
Change my points. Back to Duke by 20!

I have to get another bottle of Glenlivet. Mine is half mast. It is my six shooter.
Duke!
Have a nice day gentlemen
Jimmy

[Henderson]

For my sanity, I might take Kansas and the 4 ½ points. That way, if Duke loses, I at least have the consolation of making money. If Duke wins by more than 4 points, I'd be happy to have paid the price. And if Duke wins by 3, I get ice cream and the cherry on top. If I don't bet the game, and Duke loses, I'll just be depressed.

[Troublemaker]

For my sanity, I might take Kansas and the 4 ½ points. That way, if Duke loses, I at least have the consolation of making money. If Duke wins by more than 4 points, I'd be happy to have paid the price. And if Duke wins by 3, I get ice cream and the cherry on top. If I don't bet the game, and Duke loses, I'll just be depressed.

I like the way you think - good emotional hedge.

And frankly, if I were a neutral fan/gambler, I'd just take Kansas +5 as a good bet. Seems like there's overreaction value there to one great game by Duke and one so-so game by Kansas. I noticed upthread you think the sharps might be trying for a middle, and I agree. They knew the public would bet Duke in this matchup (one site I use for public percentages has 77% going for Duke right now) so they took Duke -3.5 early and they might take KU +5 late to create that middle where they win both bets if the number lands on 4 and one bet if it lands on 5. If we see a late dip in the spread from 5 to 4.5 or 4, it'll be probably be sharp money, as you suggested.

One thing I like to use to handicap games is motivation/situation, and the Kansas program has boatloads of it in this matchup. They are 0-2 in the Champions Classic trying to avoid 0-3. If Coach K were in that situation, I would feel so confident that he would win the game. Even if Self is not Coach K, he's a talented coach at a great program with lots of pride. And he probably wants some revenge for Maui on top of all that. If I had to bet my house on which coach spent more hours preparing for this game, it would be on Self. That's no knock on Coach K, obviously, who is a workaholic himself. If the situation were reversed, I would surely bet on Coach K being more prepared. More preparation doesn't equate to victory, of course. The players have to play and the bounces have to go your way. Just saying, this is a highly motivated program that Duke is facing coming into this game.

[brevity]

The implied statement that Team USA would offer Wiggins a spot would be quite surprising, as Wiggins is Canadian...

It could happen... if the USA took over Canada. I'm not saying it should happen, but I guess War Riggin' for Wiggins is possible.

[BD80]

It could happen... if the USA took over Canada. I'm not saying it should happen, but I guess War Riggin' for Wiggins is possible.

What part of Canada is he from? Quebec often talks about seceding, and Ontario frequently mentions becoming the 51st state. In Michigan, we are generally willing to trade the Upper Peninsula of Michigan for Ontario. Ontarians are more American than upers and upers are far more Canadian than Ontarians.

[Henderson]

It could happen... if the USA took over Canada. I'm not saying it should happen, but I guess War Riggin' for Wiggins is possible.

It might not take a war. IOC rules state that a competitor must be a "national" of the country he/she represents. But that's pretty loosey-goosey, as tradition demonstrates. Wiggins spent two years at Huntington Prep and will have spent another 3 years in the U.S. before the 2016 Olympics.

There is a ban on a player playing for one country in an internationally-sanctioned event, then playing for another, but the ban only lasts three years. Wiggins has played for Canada in U-XX events, but by 2016, that three year ban will have expired if he doesn't play for Canada again.

So my take is that Wiggins probably could find a path to playing for the US in 2016 if he wanted to. Whether he even would want to, though, is a much bigger question. I kind of doubt it, unless adidas starts flashing cash (again). The kid strikes me as mercenary/financially motivated enough to at least consider it if it would lead to bigger endorsements.

[TexHawk]

One thing I like to use to handicap games is motivation/situation, and the Kansas program has boatloads of it in this matchup. They are 0-2 in the Champions Classic trying to avoid 0-3. If Coach K were in that situation, I would feel so confident that he would win the game. Even if Self is not Coach K, he's a talented coach at a great program with lots of pride. And he probably wants some revenge for Maui on top of all that. If I had to bet my house on which coach spent more hours preparing for this game, it would be on Self. That's no knock on Coach K, obviously, who is a workaholic himself. If the situation were reversed, I would surely bet on Coach K being more prepared. More preparation doesn't equate to victory, of course. The players have to play and the bounces have to go your way. Just saying, this is a highly motivated program that Duke is facing coming into this game.

I was about to post how crazy you are, because Bill Self never takes November games seriously. Then I saw this (http://www2.kusports.com/news/2013/nov/11/kansas-bill-self-we-need-win-one/?mens_basketball).


“We’re the only team that has not won a game in the Champions Classic. We need to win this one,” KU coach Bill Self said of a 9 p.m. battle between his Jayhawks (1-0) and the Blue Devils (1-0) in Chicago’s United Center.

Then hedges here:

“We’re excited about it, but I do not get too excited about something in early November,” Self said. “Our players should be excited to play, but it’s just a step. A game in February deciding a conference championship, you’d have a whole different mind-set. You can’t make too big a deal out of it. No matter what happens, it’s so early.”

“It’s a little different for football coaches. If you lose in football, it could be over for you if you have the high, high plans, BCS plans,” Self said. “Basketball is not like that. We have had it handed to us by Kentucky in the first game and ended up a 2 seed (reaching national title game in 2011-12). We had it handed to us by Michigan State last year and ended up a 1 seed (losing in Sweet 16).

Also...

“I told our team he (Hood, 6-8, Meridan, Miss.) is probably as good a 3-man in America as we’ll play against. He is experienced, a 4-year guy,” Self said. “Jabari Parker is as skilled a 6-8 guy as you’ll see, ever. He is a Paul Pierce-, Carmelo Anthony-type player. We recruited Jabari hard until we were told we made the final six, but he only got five visits. I think he’s a terrific talent and one of the best players, without question one of the best freshmen in the country.”

[OldPhiKap]

It might not take a war.

84* 40' or fight!

[Henderson]

84* 40' or fight!

That would allow Team USA to bring Greg Newton out of retirement.

[Des Esseintes]

I got the USA today magazine as one of a few I read college journal. There is a quote by NCSU Coach Mark Godfried and he states "There is a lot of attention around Jabari Parker. Wait until you see Rodney Hood. He is that good" I thought this was kind on his part! That was a motivator for me.
OK ground zero. Rodney Hood will school Wiggins. He has a plan to!
Change my points. Back to Duke by 20!

I have to get another bottle of Glenlivet. Mine is half mast. It is my six shooter.
Duke!
Have a nice day gentlemen
Jimmy
That much I think we could divine from context clues. But I can't argue with the choice.

[BlueDevilCorvette!]

I've been having this gut feeling, all day long, that when Dawkins enter the game, he is going to set the 3pt line on fire! Dawkins has a history of getting hot against top-notch teams. If not Dawkins, one or more of Duke's other guards are going to get in a groove from behind the arch! (knock-on-wood)

[OldPhiKap]

That much I think we could divine from context clues. But I can't argue with the choice.

Go with the Laphroaig or Lagavulin. Like licking an ashtray, but in a good way.

{Mmm, scotch}

Actually, Balvanie Double Wood is probably my favorite "normal" single malt.

Oh yeah, and I expect a back and forth battle all night. I will be curious to see how composed we are, given that (1) Jabari is playing his first big game, in front of his home crowd (often a recipe for tight/forced play); and (2) Rodney despite a year at MSt has not been in anything like this. Quinn, Tyler, and Sheed are key here.

Big test for Amile, I imagine that Captain Jiggy will get plenty of time as well.

[Billy Dat]

I am interested if Rasheed's play against Davidson earns him a start tonight over Thornton? A starting 5 of Parker, Hood, Rasheed, Quinn and Amile features 5 guys who can take their man one-on-one. It is a potentially lethal offensive unit, and one that still doesn't really know how to maximize its effectiveness.

On defense, let's see how the game is called. It would be a shame, but certainly possible, if both games are foul fests with no real flow and marquee players forced to play 20 mins and less.

[-jk]

It would be a shame, but the game as played last year is a shame. Let the game flow! Stop the holding, grabbing, shoving, etc.

If the refs stay firm, the players will adjust, and the game will improve. I just hope the refs stay firm.

The VaTech/WVU game had 50some fouls called. I imagine Huggins was apoplectic. (Heh)

-jk

[Billy Dat]

It would be a shame, but the game as played last year is a shame. Let the game flow! Stop the holding, grabbing, shoving, etc.

If the refs stay firm, the players will adjust, and the game will improve. I just hope the refs stay firm.

The VaTech/WVU game had 50some fouls called. I imagine Huggins was apoplectic. (Heh)

-jk

I fully agree with the changes and embrace them, they favor our style of play anyway. While the first exhibition against Bowie State was terrible because of the fouls, the Drury game was an improvement and the Davidson game was ok, too. I wonder how much it will reduce our effort to take charges because it feels like the offensive player will get serious benefit of the doubt.

[Henderson]

I am interested if Rasheed's play against Davidson earns him a start tonight over Thornton? A starting 5 of Parker, Hood, Rasheed, Quinn and Amile features 5 guys who can take their man one-on-one. It is a potentially lethal offensive unit, and one that still doesn't really know how to maximize its effectiveness.

On defense, let's see how the game is called. It would be a shame, but certainly possible, if both games are foul fests with no real flow and marquee players forced to play 20 mins and less.

Agreed on all points. If Rasheed practiced well these past couple days, I think K will see the importance of offering him some positive reinforcement for that and his game against Davidson. Tyler would get that. If Sheed doesn't start, that either reflects a tactical direction K wants to go in to start the game or that Sheed didn't practice this weekend as well as he played on Friday.

Parker, Hood, Rasheed, Quinn and Amile: Wow. Scary offense.

Officiating: These refs know it's a big game, so it's big for them too. Spotlight is on. I'll be curious to see how they respond.

Rebounding and FT shooting: Performing poorly on those two stats alone could cost us the game. A poor night from 3 would is also a risk. Some of our worst games have come from going 20% from behind the line on lots of attempts.

Oh, and look for Semi to put up 30. Maybe not tonight, but it's coming....

[Native]

Agreed on all points. If Rasheed practiced well these past couple days, I think K will see the importance of offering him some positive reinforcement for that and his game against Davidson. Tyler would get that. If Sheed doesn't start, that either reflects a tactical direction K wants to go in to start the game or that Sheed didn't practice this weekend as well as he played on Friday.

Parker, Hood, Rasheed, Quinn and Amile: Wow. Scary offense.

Agreed on all counts. It'll be interesting to see what K does. Go with the seemingly better offensive lineup or use TT to set the tone early?


Oh, and look for Semi to put up 30. Maybe not tonight, but it's coming....

Official prop bet: Semi shatters a backboard before he scores over twenty points.

[brevity]

Hot Sports Takes: Is Andrew Wiggins bad for college basketball? (http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/82047/hotsportstakes-is-andrew-wiggins-bad-for-college-basketball)

Man, these fake opinions are looking more and more legitimate.

[Utley]

Anyone know Kansas's record in the Champions classic? We're 2-0 so a win would bring us the champion classic champion in this first 3 year run. I'm guessing the worst we can do is tie for 1st unless Kansas is 2-0 too.

Life is not allowing me to watch the game tonight but I have brought out the save for special occasions Indianapolis Final 4 tshirt to help with the mojo.

[BD80]

Agreed on all points. If Rasheed practiced well these past couple days, I think K will see the importance of offering him some positive reinforcement for that and his game against Davidson. Tyler would get that. If Sheed doesn't start, that either reflects a tactical direction K wants to go in to start the game or that Sheed didn't practice this weekend as well as he played on Friday.

Parker, Hood, Rasheed, Quinn and Amile: Wow. Scary offense.

Officiating: These refs know it's a big game, so it's big for them too. Spotlight is on. I'll be curious to see how they respond. ....

Counter-point: we have 4 players who can create offense (sorry, Amile just ain't one of them). Having three on the floor at a time stretches the defense. Having four on the floor is almost wasteful. By starting Tyler, we can use Sheed to rotate with Jabari, Rodney and Quinn so that 3 of those 4 are on the court together throughout the game. Tyler also helps us set our tone on defense.

I still prefer seeing Sheed or Matt on the floor, but Tyler starting may not mean that Sheed hasn't played or practiced well.

Expect a lot of fouls in both games. Every player will be in attack mode.

[Dev11]

Anyone know Kansas's record in the Champions classic? We're 2-0 so a win would bring us the champion classic champion in this first 3 year run. I'm guessing the worst we can do is tie for 1st unless Kansas is 2-0 too.

Life is not allowing me to watch the game tonight but I have brought out the save for special occasions Indianapolis Final 4 tshirt to help with the mojo.

They're 0-2, as mentioned up-thread. I say let them get their first Champions Classic win against somebody else.

[jv001]

Counter-point: we have 4 players who can create offense (sorry, Amile just ain't one of them). Having three on the floor at a time stretches the defense. Having four on the floor is almost wasteful. By starting Tyler, we can use Sheed to rotate with Jabari, Rodney and Quinn so that 3 of those 4 are on the court together throughout the game. Tyler also helps us set our tone on defense.

I still prefer seeing Sheed or Matt on the floor, but Tyler starting may not mean that Sheed hasn't played or practiced well.

Expect a lot of fouls in both games. Every player will be in attack mode.

Amile can't create offense from outside in, but he can beat his man off the dribble from the FT line in. He's shown that ability. But I see what you're saying. Just wanted to give Amile a little praise. GoDuke!

[Indoor66]

It would be a shame, but the game as played last year is a shame. Let the game flow! Stop the holding, grabbing, shoving, etc.

If the refs stay firm, the players will adjust, and the game will improve. I just hope the refs stay firm.

The VaTech/WVU game had 50some fouls called. I imagine Huggins was apoplectic. (Heh)

-jk
What is John Thompson going to do?

[DukeBlueHeart4]

I'm a little unclear of the start time. Espn.com says 9:30 p.m. but watchespn.com (where I will be watching the game) says 10:00 p.m. Any clarification?

[weezie]

What is John Thompson going to do?

What he always does, mumble and mutter. doiii :o

[freshmanjs]

I'm a little unclear of the start time. Espn.com says 9:30 p.m. but watchespn.com (where I will be watching the game) says 10:00 p.m. Any clarification?

our game will start after ky-msu is over + a 20-30 minute break

[DBFAN]

I am interested in what the Crowd will be like. I expect the anti Duke crowd to be there, but I wonder how much support there will be with Jabari being a Chicago native. Also so he doesn't push to hard since he is back in front of friends and Family

[mattman91]

I have my Green Man IPA, Duke Jersey, and some wings. Bring it on.

[DukeBlueHeart4]

our game will start after ky-msu is over + a 20-30 minute break

Thanks! :-)

[ChrisP]

I'm a little unclear of the start time. Espn.com says 9:30 p.m. but watchespn.com (where I will be watching the game) says 10:00 p.m. Any clarification?

I think the game is actually starting on 11/13 at this rate. Jeez, it's 9:40 ET and there's almost 5 minutes to go in a close game. We might not tip until 10:30 :( Oy!

[DukeBlueHeart4]

I think the game is actually starting on 11/13 at this rate. Jeez, it's 9:40 ET and there's almost 5 minutes to go in a close game. We might not tip until 10:30 :( Oy!

I feel old saying this...but it's past my bed time! Only the Blue Devils could keep me up so late when I know I have to teach tomorrow!

[kAzE]

Oh, thank God Wiggins got a haircut. I was not a fan of the nappy fro.

[DBFAN]

What a surprise, the only announcer not to pick Duke to win is Drumroll please......Jay Bilas

SMH

[-jk]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) live! C'mon by!

-jk

[duke4ever19]

DBR Chat (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/misc.php?do=cchatbox) live! C'mon by!

-jk

I would, except that the link takes me straight to a page on smilies/emoticons or something.

[riverside6]

Live tempo-based stats for Duke/Kansas...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=19858

[lotusland]

A little ragged so far. My watch ESPN reception is sketchy at best but prolly due to the blustery conditions tonight.

[Mal]

Not a fan.

[lotusland]

Mp3 in with Murphy and parker- trying to match their size

[NYBri]

Parker for three. Hope that gets him rolling.

[jipops]

Defense not looking good right now. Kansas beating us from the perimeter.

[kAzE]

Selden and Greene are killing us. Gotta find those guys when they are spotting up.

[DBFAN]

Team isn't looking real sharp right now. Still confused that the ticky tak fouls up top are being called, but Kansas is being very physical down low, and no whistles

[kAzE]

Ugh, 0-3 on the front end of 1 and 1s. Drawing the calls, but not taking advantage.

Spectacular shot by Parker off the steal though.

[CDu]

Defense has looked shaky so far. Too many easy buckets near the rim for Kansas.

Missing the front end of our first three 1-and-1s doesn't help.

Parker and Hood have looked terrific so far.

[duke4ever19]

Nasty, Jordan-like stuff from Jabari there. Kid can play!

[jipops]

Ugh, 0-3 on the front end of 1 and 1s.

That could be another concession of weakness with the defensive rebounding.

[dukelifer]

Rule number 1 in basketball- you can't win if you let a team shoot 66% from the floor. The D needs a ton of work.

[NYBri]

Parker. Extraordinary talent. Wow.

Win or lose...I love this team.

[lotusland]

Parker>Wiggins

[jipops]

No problems scoring for this team. Please just defend!!!

Kansas really spreading us out

[CDu]

Best player on the floor so far: Jabari Parker.

Second-best player on the floor so far: not close to Jabari Parker.

Thank goodness Parker is amazing, because otherwise we might be struggling right now.

[duke4ever19]

Can Jabari Parker turn water into wine?

[_Gary]

Methinks this Parker kid is pretty much indispensable. ;)

[NYBri]

Parker-37
Kansas-36

[chaosmage]

The defense is a little more passive. I am sure K is telling them to hold back a little, and the team will become more aggressive once the foul calling is better understood. Because we are certainly fast enough to get into every single lane.

Agree also,

Win or lose... these guys are going to be a blast to watch, except when they are shooting free throws ;-)

[duke4ever19]

I'm so sick of whistles.

[_Gary]

Thank goodness Parker is amazing, because otherwise we might be struggling right now.

Agreed. In all seriousness, I think we'll struggle against good teams when he's not on the floor.

[CDu]

Hairston's unwillingness to box out just resulted in Parker's second foul. :(

[kAzE]

I'm just doing the bowing motion towards Parker now. Cook is playing really poorly this half though.

[NYBri]

On the floor and no one dives on it? K not happy.

[NYBri]

I really hate the new whistle-ball. Not looking forward to a season of watching refs stopping play.

[mph]

Our free throw shooting is disturbing.

[lotusland]

Free throw shooting is terrible

[_Gary]

Have we left 7 points off the scoreboard due to poor foul shooting so far? I think that's the count.

[jipops]

If this comes down to ft's, we don't give ourselves a good chance to win


As Cook hits 2

[Henderson]

Rebounding and free throws have been the difference between our being up 12 and being tied.

[mr. synellinden]

Jabari Parker is the Truth.

[Researchc]

The free throws are killing us.....abysmal 6-13 for the half.

[NYBri]

In Jabari we trust.

[kAzE]

Have we left 7 points off the scoreboard due to poor foul shooting so far? I think that's the count.

10 points. 3 of the misses were front end of 1 and 1s. That's a back breaker.

[dukelifer]

Rebounding and free throws have been the difference between our being up 12 and being tied.

In a year with a lot of fouls you better hit your throws. Lots to work on.

[_Gary]

I think it's 9 points we've left off the scoreboard at the half. Jabari is a man amongst boys tonight. That's great when he's on the court, but we don't look too good when he's on the bench.

[CDu]

Have we left 7 points off the scoreboard due to poor foul shooting so far? I think that's the count.

We missed 3 front-ends and 4 other free throws. That's 10 potential points left on the table.

[-jk]

I really hate the new whistle-ball. Not looking forward to a season of watching refs stopping play.

So long as the refs stay consistent, the players will adapt. I'm looking forward to it.

-jk

[mapleleafdevil]

Jabari is a bball player.

[SCMatt33]

Missed foul shots will kill you. 6-13 (really 6-16 because Duke missed the front end of 3 one-and-one's) is not going to cut it in the long run.

[_Gary]

We missed 3 front-ends and 4 other free throws. That's 10 potential points left on the table.

Okay, it's worse than I thought on that front. Yikes.

[CLW]

Free throws and post defense may not get us tonight but somewhere down the road it is going to bite us. The post defense there probably isn't much of a solution for it just is what it is. The free throw shooting is another matter.

[mr. synellinden]

6-12 from 3

6-13 from the FT line.

Missed 3 front ends.

Should be up by 8-10.

[flyingdutchdevil]

We missed 3 front-ends and 4 other free throws. That's 10 potential points left on the table.

Duke should be ashamed with it's FT play. This team is collectively worse than Mason Plumlee's junior year at FTs...

That said, Jabari is freakin insane!

[lotusland]

So if they put a "little" on Parker they're sitting a big right? I like that trade the way we are rebounding against them so far.

[jipops]

Though Jabari has carried us, overall I think the offense has looked good. Defense has been subpar, ft's terrible, but we're up 2 at the half.

[-jk]

I would, except that the link takes me straight to a page on smilies/emoticons or something.

we're phasing it in. We're up to about 500 contributing members.

-jk

[Henderson]

Teams used to fear our FT shooting, and they planned their end-of-game situations around our reputation at the line.

Well, I guess at least half of it is still true.

But, hey: We're ahead.

And: Ladies and Gentlemen, meet Mr. Jabari Parker.

[Gthoma2a]

Letting the less sure-fire guys would help in the long run if this were a track meet of a game, but, in the future, they really need to work on staying with their man in the paint. We just left guys there at times. Parker is amazing, but we are definitely seeing a bit of a comedown from Friday. I expected us to play like MSU did tonight... and to parrot everyone else, free-throw shooting. We need that.

[duke4ever19]

we're phasing it in. We're up to about 500 contributing members.

-jk

Oh ok. Looking forward to checking it out when you expand.

[arnie]

Though Jabari has carried us, overall I think the offense has looked good. Defense has been subpar, ft's terrible, but we're up 2 at the half.

Unless Plumlee can develop, don't see post defense significantly improving. Gonna have to win on offense this year. Parker simply amazing.

[cbarry]

Free throw shooting is terrible

Atrocious FT shooting. Less than 50%!!! Wow. Good thing Parker is carrying us in the first half. Hood is doing well driving and passing to Jefferson. The rest of the team is not playing so well. Looks like K is trying to experiment with different lineups. It will be an interesting 2nd half. Looks like Kansas wants it more, though.

[NYBri]

Remember. YOUNG team with nothing but upside potential.

[Chicken Little]

In the interview going into the locker room, Self commented that they weren't sure if their big should be on Parker or Hood. This conundrum had never even occurred to me. I would think the bigger struggle would be the temptation to not put a big on the floor in response to the athleticism and range of those two.

Obviously free throw shooting is awful, but I'm always reminded why I'm a Duke fan when I see an opposing team look so lost in a situation like Kansas found themselves in at the end of the half. I respect Self as a recruiter, but I know he's going to be out coached in this game.

[cbarry]

Thank you! I always thought a missed front end of a 1-and-1 should count as 2 misses (0-2), since you just cost your team 2 points.
Missed foul shots will kill you. 6-13 (really 6-16 because Duke missed the front end of 3 one-and-one's) is not going to cut it in the long run.

[lotusland]

Hope we have a lead late but stall ball will not work if we can't hit free throws. Might as well try to pour it on.

[JNort]

So if they put a "little" on Parker they're sitting a big right? I like that trade the way we are rebounding against them so far.

Most likely they will just move the big to Hood instead. That or play zone

[NYBri]

What we are watching tonight is nothing like what we will be watching in March. Zoobs was a no show in Npvember when we won it all. K will adjust and we will make a very serious run at the brass ring.

[lotusland]

Most likely they will just move the big to Hood instead. That or play zone

so Wiggins out or move to guard? Hood can make them pay as well as parker.

[mr. synellinden]

Rodney Hood is a terrific passer.

[chaosmage]

How sweet it is!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

My first look at Parker tonight.

From just 1 half of play I think I can safely say he's the most fundamentally polished freshman big man i've seen in years. He's an AA, very impressive.

First look at Wiggins too. Bouncy, springy...whatever you want to call it he has it. Touch, good hands and good handle. If he can ever show the maturity that Parker already has he could be off the charts...but watching his reactions, it seems he has a ways to go.

Saw Randle too for first time. One word. Stud.

[_Gary]

Who let Grant Hill in the building?!!!

[Henderson]

Our starters are 7-10 from the line. The bench is 0-5.

Mr. Parker is 100% from the line.

[_Gary]

Must be something about playing Kansas that brings out the one-handed slams in our guys. :D

[NYBri]

Tyler!

[duke79]

I think we need to appreciate Jabari this year. I'm betting he is in the NBA next year. Too bad but that is the way of the world today.

[Chicken Little]

They should reserve a space on the SC top 10 for Mr. Parker. Good God!

[NYBri]

If we come up short on the NC, Jabari is the kind if dude to stay and finish the biz.

[Gthoma2a]

They should reserve a space on the SC top 10 for Mr. Parker. Good God!

Every game!

[mr. synellinden]

I really love Amile Jefferson. We have 3 guys on our front line who are very difficult to guard.

[Gthoma2a]

Do they really even want to try the airball chant right now? Angering Parker could be dangerous for your health.

[chaosmage]

I'm not watching stats, but Jefferson is quietly impressing me. He's making smart plays and scoring well. 13 points. Numerous affected plays. A scoring version of David McClure?

[kAzE]

I'm not watching stats, but Jefferson is quietly impressing me. He's making smart plays and scoring well. 13 points. Numerous affected plays. A scoring version of David McClure?

Way better than McClure, he's been our 2nd best player this game thus far. Also seems the only guy actually knocking down his freebies . . .

[NYBri]

I'm not watching stats, but Jefferson is quietly impressing me. He's making smart plays and scoring well. 13 points. Numerous affected plays. A scoring version of David McClure?

Indeed. If they focus on JP, we need Amile to make them pay.

[duke4ever19]

Indeed. If they focus on JP, we need Amile to make them pay.

They are making us pay with Mr. men's clothing line.

[kAzE]

Boy, I'll be the first to admit I really underestimated Ellis. He's "destroying" us down low.

[CDu]

Way better than McClure, he's been our 2nd best player this game thus far. Also seems the only guy actually knocking down his freebies . . .

Well, one of only a few: Parker is 3-3 and Cook is 2-3.

[Henderson]

Quinn Cook now has one turnover this season.

[NYBri]

Where is Billy King when we need him. Ellis

[Gthoma2a]

Quinn Cook now has one turnover this season.

Time to bring out the hook?

[Chicken Little]

Love Amile this season. Usually in the right place at the right time. This team needs someone in the Lance Thomas mold to frustrate opposing bigs. Love him to death, but Hairston will be watching some tape after that defensive effort.

[Gthoma2a]

I don't get why we rushed out on the perimeter there. Mason hasn't made a 3 all season.

[NYBri]

Rebounding is an issue.

[NYBri]

Hey. Up by one against an insanely talented Kansas. Not bad.

[jipops]

I know we say we like to run. But Kansas appears more comfortable in transition. We seem sloppy.

[mattman91]

Thornton on Wiggins?

[Gthoma2a]

This is where Semi needs to get his D up to speed quick. If we are going to rely on PGs to play wings every time Parker goes out, we are in trouble.

[dukelifer]

not understanding what we are doing on D. Why is Thornton guarding Wiggins?

[DBFAN]

So many travel violations not being called in the lane tonight. SMH

[NYBri]

Up one. Eight minutes left. Gut check.

[duke4ever19]

I know we say we like to run. But Kansas appears more comfortable in transition. We seem sloppy.

I agree. Sometimes it looks like we get out and run, but seem hesitant by thinking defensively. Kansas just gets downs the floor and tries to impose what it wants. We can fix that during the year.

[UrinalCake]

Amile does look really good driving to the basket. We need to find a way to keep him at the 4 on offense because that's where he's the most effective.

Kansas has one of the best front lines in the country, and while they're beating us in the post I wouldn't say they're dominating us.

Defensively I'm surprised we're not pressing more. Maybe a concern about fatigue, for Parker in particular.

[mph]

Thornton on Wiggins?

Can't believe we let that happen 2 possessions in a row. On a positive note, our FT shooting has improved in the 2nd half.

[Henderson]

Rebounding is an issue.

31-19 so far. Not pretty.

[NYBri]

31-19 so far. Not pretty.

Indeed my point.

[CDu]

Can't believe we let that happen 2 possessions in a row. On a positive note, our FT shooting has improved in the 2nd half.

We didn't "let it happen." That was Thornton's assignment. We had a 3-guard lineup with Hood at PF there.

[duke4ever19]

Man, we are shooting ourselves in the foot with the foul shooting.

[dukelifer]

Uggh. Free throw shooting problems continue.

[NYBri]

With the free throws, we may be looking at hack-a-shack this year.

[mph]

We didn't "let it happen." That was Thornton's assignment. We had a 3-guard lineup with Hood at PF there.

Yes, and I meant I can't believe we left a lineup on the floor that forced Thornton to guard Wiggins.

[DukieInBrasil]

KU's FT defense is pretty good. 56% from the charity stripe is atrocious. 0% FTs from our bench, that hurts.

[Gthoma2a]

I don't care about Wiggins being in foul trouble, we need to get Ellis in foul trouble.

[UrinalCake]

This team is making us miss Mason... at the free throw line :D

[dukelifer]

Hood is not asserting himself. Duke needs some shooting.

[jipops]

Comes down to ft's now which is not good for us. New rules actually not that good for this team.

[chaosmage]

are the refs getting whistle-happy? Or is it the players getting tired and reverting to the "old defense" rather than what they have been taught this summer/fall?

[Gthoma2a]

Bad shot by Parker. We are giving this game up with the poor free throw shooting, because they aren't missing from the line lately. Surely we can teach guards to shoot free throws by the end of the season if we could teach Mason to, right?

[nmduke2001]

Free throws. How can we be so bad at free throws?

[_Gary]

Well, at least if we lose there's going to be a glaring stat that will tell us the main culprit: FT %. It's been atrocious and if we lose that's the biggest problem from this game. If we win, then we've overcome a terrible FT shooting night and should be proud.

[Gthoma2a]

Free throws. How can we be so bad at free throws?

Our FG and FT % are opposites of what you'd think. Why is Jones non-existent in this game? I understand that Tyler is alright, but there are so many reasons that we need a little more size with our defense.

[dukelifer]

Ridiculously long game. Could go another 20 minutes at this rate.

[Mabdul Doobakus]

Refs are destroying this game. I hope the games are not called like this all season.

[CDu]

Well, at least if we lose there's going to be a glaring stat that will tell us the main culprit: FT %. It's been atrocious and if we lose that's the biggest problem from this game. If we win, then we've overcome a terrible FT shooting night and should be proud.

The downside: is free throw shooting something we'll get better at, or are we going to be shaky from the line all season?

[SCMatt33]

Not sure what'll happen the rest of the way, but either way, the small picture issue in this game is Duke's foul shooting. Duke could have a decent margin if they shot better. Big picture, Duke will have to find a way to defend and rebound big teams without fouling. Boy this team has a great offense though, and that can make up for a lot.