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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 111, Davidson 77 Post-Game Thread



JBDuke
11-08-2013, 09:01 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

Dukeface88
11-08-2013, 09:02 PM
3673

pfrduke
11-08-2013, 09:02 PM
Put your post-game thoughts here.

That was a lot of points.

Duvall
11-08-2013, 09:02 PM
Duke has some things to work on defensively. Offense was okay.

throatybeard
11-08-2013, 09:03 PM
Well, that escalated quickly.

It jumped up a notch.

DukeBlueHeart4
11-08-2013, 09:04 PM
Thought #1: This team is going to be A LOT of fun to watch this year.

Thought #2: Offense...just wow....

Thought #3: We looked like we improved at the line (just an eye test- no data) but still need to work on that.

Thought #4: Gotta lock down that D a little more!

Henderson
11-08-2013, 09:04 PM
Four turnovers. Four. For the whole team. And 16 assists. If we shoot 70% from the field, from the 3, and from the line all year, we'll be ok.

OldPhiKap
11-08-2013, 09:05 PM
Well, that escalated quickly.


It jumped up a notch.

You may not know this, but Duke is kind of a big thing.

bradvinjack
11-08-2013, 09:07 PM
Wow, what a first game. Great way to start the season.

kAzE
11-08-2013, 09:07 PM
3673

That was crazy!! There were horses, and a man on fire, and the Blue Devil gave Demon Brooks cramps with his trident!

We had a couple of bad defensive breakdowns, but for the most part, I thought we weren't terrible on D. Teams are going to score a lot when the officials call that many ticky tack fouls.

What a crazy night offensively . . 4 guys with 20+. Shooting a higher % from the field than from the free throw line will do that.

Parker and Hood are obviously the stars on this team, but Cook and Sulaimon played GREAT. Amile didn't get much run due to foul trouble but he looked good when he was in there.

Only gripe I have is that weren't aggressive enough on the boards. They got lots of easy put backs and a ton of offensive rebounds.

What a scary, scary team we have. I LOVE IT.

moonpie23
11-08-2013, 09:08 PM
thoughts:

1. wow
2. jay williams may be right.
3. IC peeps already tearing us down
4. wow

BlueDevilBrowns
11-08-2013, 09:10 PM
I agree the D needs work, especially communication but one thing to keep in mind about the defense is that due to our quicker pace, we're going to increase our offensive possessions but the flip side is that there will be more offensive possessions to defend, as well.

So, say we won 77 - 43; we may be saying what a complete victory that was.

Henderson
11-08-2013, 09:12 PM
We had a couple of bad defensive breakdowns, but for the most part, I thought we weren't terrible on D. Teams are going to score a lot when the officials call that many ticky tack fouls.

****

Parker and Hood are obviously the stars on this team, but Cook and Sulaimon played GREAT.

1. Other teams are going to score a lot when they get lots of possessions. And if we get lots of possessions, so do they.

2. Cook had 21 pts, 8 assists, and no turnovers. Star quality point guard play in my book.

3. Rasheed Sulaimon: Welcome back. We're all breathing again now.

Potato Head
11-08-2013, 09:13 PM
I would expect a lot of defensive breakdowns this year, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. We're going to be playing an unorthodox lineup basically all season, and it looks like doing a lot of trapping and jumping in passing lanes to try and make up for our lack of a balanced half-court defense. So we're going to get beat sometimes, but if we can create points off turnovers in addition to our awesome regular offense it should be just as effective as having a really good traditional lock-down D.

CLW
11-08-2013, 09:16 PM
Offense was outstanding.

Defense (particularly post defense) still a major concern as well as rebounding.

How the rotation shakes out is going to be really interesting so much depth and so..... many options.

dukelifer
11-08-2013, 09:17 PM
I predict that if we shoot 70% for the rest of the year - we will win it all. Lots of talent- fun to watch. D needs work.

MaxAMillion
11-08-2013, 09:18 PM
The offense was mostly perimeter in the first half. It seemed like the team was able to get in the paint more in the 2nd half which was good. Also concerned about rebounding and interior defense.

I sure hope Coach K plans to continue to use his bench a lot this year. A lot of good talent on the bench.

DevilFalcon
11-08-2013, 09:21 PM
Where was Andre? He's got to be worth more than a few random minutes.
Great start overall for a team that can be very good.
Real test against Kansas with an actual big man to defend.

killerleft
11-08-2013, 09:23 PM
Pretty fine start! The newbies were as good as advertised, and Mr. Sulaimon showed why it is whimsy to think of him as anything less than star material.

All in all, not a bad little palate-cleanser before the big game tomorrow.;)

kAzE
11-08-2013, 09:25 PM
Honestly, I think having a big defensive anchor type center has become less valuable with the new rules this year. The new rules actually help our team a LOT. We have a ton of guys who are good at getting the paint and creating contact on layups. If the officials call all the games somewhat like they called tonight's game, we're just going to foul out guys who stay camped in the lane defensively. Rasheed had a clean block and got called. Hairston got whistled twice when he literally standing there with both hands up and the offensive player bumped into him on the way up. I feel way more confident in our chances against a major defensive big man if this is the way the calls are going to go from here on out.

SoCalDukeFan
11-08-2013, 09:37 PM
We are very good and very deep.
Good combination.

Socal

bbosbbos
11-08-2013, 09:38 PM
I love our offense. But defense needs to improve.

mr. synellinden
11-08-2013, 09:39 PM
Did our starters really shoot 30 for 36?!!

Holy hell. Brick killed a guy.

Saratoga2
11-08-2013, 09:40 PM
Clearly the team will center upon Parker, Hood, Cook and Sualimon with Jefferson playing fairly well but maybe up against it early. Backups appear to be Tyler, Matt and Alex. Semi appeared to be raw in the short time in, nothing much from Marshall and nothing period from Andre. Josh was used a lot and will probably continue to be but didn't produce much other than fouls.

As was pointed out by another, when we get so many possessions, so will the other team. So we will give up quite a few points in the scheme of an uptempo game, but that isn't all that bad.

My main concern is that a disproportionate percentage of our scoring came from the 3 point line. In another game, maybe we aren't all that effective from 3. It will be interesting to see this team develop.

throatybeard
11-08-2013, 09:40 PM
You may not know this, but Duke is kind of a big thing.

Durham was settled by the Germans in 1904.

Henderson
11-08-2013, 09:44 PM
Honestly, I think having a big defensive anchor type center has become less valuable with the new rules this year. The new rules actually help our team a LOT.

... to score. But we also have to rebound and keep other bigs from scoring. The only ugly stat of the game tonight was losing the rebounding battle, especially on their offensive glass. The one contribution Marshall made to the stat sheet tonight was a defensive rebound.

So, no. I don't think the lack of a big talented post player helps us. But you're right that having a big anchor who does nothing but draw fouls would not be useful.

GGLC
11-08-2013, 09:47 PM
Wow, I wish I'd been able to see this game. The stats look amazing.

OldPhiKap
11-08-2013, 09:48 PM
Durham was settled by the Germans in 1904.

Coach K must have gone with the Sex Panther tonight.

Dukeface88
11-08-2013, 09:48 PM
Did our starters really shoot 30 for 36?!!

Holy hell. Brick killed a guy.

Well, I think calling Jabari "Brick" for missing two shots is probably unfair. He should really find himself a safehouse and lay low for a while though, cause after that oop he's probably wanted for murder.

Dukeblue91
11-08-2013, 09:51 PM
God I so missed Duke basketball.
Great game that really showcased the talent we have.
Our D looks a little soft right now but should come along fine with some time.
Parker and Hood are as good as advertised and Cook looked great too.
I'm very happy to see Rasheed playing well too, altogether the talent level on this team is just incredible and once they come together as a team we should go very far.
I'm very excited about this team and will enjoy watching them grow.
Awesome first game, bring on Kansas.

azzefkram
11-08-2013, 09:51 PM
An embarrassment of riches on the offensive side of the ball. Tough to make a call on the defense when it is whistled that closely. I think it is going to take a period of adjustment for all involved before we can see if this team can defend as tenaciously as we would hope. Rebounding will be a concern unless one of Amile, Alex or MP3 can step up. You can't give up 13 offensive rebounds to Davidson.

It is only one game, but I am really impressed with Rodney and Jabari.

TheDuckStore
11-08-2013, 09:53 PM
I agree the D needs work, especially communication but one thing to keep in mind about the defense is that due to our quicker pace, we're going to increase our offensive possessions but the flip side is that there will be more offensive possessions to defend, as well.

So, say we won 77 - 43; we may be saying what a complete victory that was.


Shooting % -- Davidson: 42% 3P: 14%

They also shot 88% (22-25) from the FT line. Duke was 22-32.

Game plan was likely to limit good 3 point looks as that was the only way Davidson was going to stay in this game.

More possessions means more shots and potentially higher scores. But if we can keep % down, then it should work out. This Davidson team would have played recent Duke squads closer, in my opinion.

throatybeard
11-08-2013, 09:57 PM
Coach K must have gone with the Sex Panther tonight.

This offense is kind of like

sky rockets in flight

NYBri
11-08-2013, 09:57 PM
We are going to score 90+ points a lot this year. Not many teams will be able to keep up. Not worried about defense or rebounding.

FerryFor50
11-08-2013, 10:01 PM
Coach K must have gone with the Sex Panther tonight.

70.4% of the time, it works all the time.

-jk
11-08-2013, 10:01 PM
Durham was settled by the Germans in 1904.

I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Durham was settled well before, and incorporated just after the civil war. Weird.

-jk

Dukehky
11-08-2013, 10:04 PM
Everyone just take a deep breath on the defense. It's going to get better. The biggest problem with all the switching on off ball, especially baseline, screens is that if there's any miscommunication people get lost. That was a major problem in the first half that got shored up in the second. I thought Marshall did relatively well defending the post. I actually expect him to garner more minutes because JH did not play well at either end (he should not shoot the ball outside of a lay-up, there are 4 better options on the court almost always). Amile got in early foul trouble and one of them was a cheapy. that's two games in a row he's taken himself out of the game in the first six minutes. He has to get smarter and I think he will. He's a solid, long, quick defender who again, is only going to improve as the year goes on.

Our 3 point shooting will not look close to that for the vast majority of the year. In fact, that is one of Duke's bigger questions offensively, we're streaky, but hot damn if we hit that streak at the right time... watch out. Defensively, I predict that Duke will start to look really, really imposing after Christmas break. I also expect more plays for Jabari in the mid-post, he's unstoppable there, which is a great option if we're not hitting jump shots. He and hood can hit the mid-post and get fouled or get a bucket.

Doris was not strong tonight, I hope she improves.

pfrduke
11-08-2013, 10:04 PM
Durham was settled by the Germans in 1904.

In Spanish, it means a whale's ... ahem.

FerryFor50
11-08-2013, 10:04 PM
I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Durham was settled well before, and incorporated just after the civil war. Weird.

-jk

Someone has not seen Anchorman, or saw it and did not memorize it. :)

MCFinARL
11-08-2013, 10:05 PM
This offense is kind of like

sky rockets in flight

Even if they are not playing in the afternoon?

DukeFanSince1990
11-08-2013, 10:08 PM
Did our starters really shoot 30 for 36?!!

Holy hell. Brick killed a guy.

With a trident.

OldPhiKap
11-08-2013, 10:08 PM
Even if they are not playing in the afternoon?

Our offense ran like a mad jazz flute solo.

-bdbd
11-08-2013, 10:10 PM
I only got to see a few parts, but this is certainly going to be a fun team to watch. The defense will come with time, practice and effort.

Overall, hard to win by over thirty and be unhappy. Lots of great shooting, passing, effort on offense. Parker, Hood, Cook, Sulaimon really look spectacular at times.... :D

It looks like the core is Parker, Hood, Cook, and Rasheed. Really hoping that AJ can establish more presence in the middle. How does a top-5 program like Duke go at home against a mid-Major like Davidson and get outrebounded? If we give up that many O-rebounds to them, imagine what a Kansas or Michigan or Syracuse is going to do!!! And how does our starting Center get ZERO rebounds? ZERO blocks? And just 2 fouls? Ugh. A couple things to be worried about. Again, overall, a great first effort. Defense just needs to catch up to the Offense now...

jipops
11-08-2013, 10:10 PM
Shooting % -- Davidson: 42% 3P: 14%

They also shot 88% (22-25) from the FT line. Duke was 22-32.

Game plan was likely to limit good 3 point looks as that was the only way Davidson was going to stay in this game.

More possessions means more shots and potentially higher scores. But if we can keep % down, then it should work out. This Davidson team would have played recent Duke squads closer, in my opinion.

K openly praised the defense in the post game. They sought to limit the 3's and that is what they did. And with such a high volume possession game the scores are going to be high. There were too many scores at the rim by Davidson but we took away almost everything from outside of 15 feet. Keep in mind this is a young group with a core that has never played together before. Team defense can take the longest to develop between players becoming acquainted.

The real surprising part to me was only 4 turnovers. This team shared the ball extremely well tonight.

AncientPsychicT
11-08-2013, 10:12 PM
Rasheed Sulaimon; the reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

OldPhiKap
11-08-2013, 10:14 PM
I only got to see a few parts, but this is certainly going to be a fun team to watch. The defense will come with time, practice and effort.

Overall, hard to win by over thirty and be unhappy. Lots of great shooting, passing, effort on offense. Parker, Hood, Cook, Suliamon really look spectacular at times.... :D

It looks like the core is Parker, Hood, Cook, and Rasheed. Really hoping that AJ can establish more presence in the middle. How does a top-5 program like Duke go at home against a mid-Major like Davidson and get outrebounded? If we give up that many O-rebounds to them, imagine what a Kansas or Michigan or Syracuse is going to do!!! And how does our starting Center get ZERO rebounds? ZERO blocks? And just 2 fouls? Ugh. A couple things to be worried about. Again, overall, a great first effort. Defense just needs to catch up to the Offense now...

Amile played well, but had two early fouls in the first half and sat. Josh played very well in his absence.

Rebounding is an issue that we will struggle with at times. But when you shoot 70%, there are not a lot of rebounds. So the stats are a bit skewed.

OldPhiKap
11-08-2013, 10:15 PM
Rasheed Sulaimon; the reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

His dog house has three point range, and tasty drives to the dish.

-bdbd
11-08-2013, 10:16 PM
I only got to see a few parts, but this is certainly going to be a fun team to watch. The defense will come with time, practice and effort.


Overall, hard to win by over thirty and be unhappy. Lots of great shooting, passing, effort on offense. Parker, Hood, Cook, Suliamon really look spectacular at times.... :D


It looks like the core is Parker, Hood, Cook, and Rasheed. Really hoping that AJ can establish more presence in the middle. How does a top-5 program like Duke go at home against a mid-Major like Davidson and get outrebounded? If we give up that many O-rebounds to them, imagine what a Kansas or Michigan or Syracuse is going to do!!! And how does our starting Center get ZERO rebounds? ZERO blocks? And just 2 fouls? Ugh. A couple things to be worried about. Again, overall, a great first effort. Defense just needs to catch up to the Offense now...



http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400502661

-jk
11-08-2013, 10:16 PM
Someone has not seen Anchorman, or saw it and did not memorize it. :)

Guess I stepped in that one.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-08-2013, 10:16 PM
Someone has not seen Anchorman, or saw it and did not memorize it. :)

Speaking of Civil War history, Diversity was an old wooden ship used in the war.

And did you know that in German "Chapel Hill" means a whale's va... uh, nevermind.

P.S. Pfr beat me to it. But I'm not even mad. I'm quite impressed, actually. That's amazing.

burnspbesq
11-08-2013, 10:19 PM
We did all that against a team that will probably win 25 games this year.

Happy? Yes, happy.

FerryFor50
11-08-2013, 10:19 PM
Guess I stepped in that one.

Your penance is watching Anchorman and saying 5 Hail Marys.

davekay1971
11-08-2013, 10:20 PM
For a team with so many new parts, playing against a more veteran team, I can't believe how seamlessly we played on offense. Our team looked good. The extra passes, the ball movement, were fluid. There was no selfishness. There was good trust of teammates. This looked like a mid January offensive performance. Add more time and games together, and the kind of weaponry we're putting on the court, and this team could be scary on offense.

Defense wasn't bad at all. It could definitely improve, but our team held Davidson to 42% shooting. Davidson got their points by getting wayyyyy too many offensive boards (13) and shooting well at the foul line. Part of the rebounding was undoubtedly due to Amile being limited with foul trouble. Amile's our best rebounder, and capable of controlling the defensive boards...but he's got to be on the court to do it. I'd like to see the tempo adjusted defensive stats.

Absolutely impressive first performance. Hood and Parker were as good as advertised, and Cook looks like a bit of a kid in a candy store with the scorers he has to pass to.

CLW
11-08-2013, 10:22 PM
K in his post game press conference specifically brought up the "dog house" and Sheed comments and said he was not in the "dog house" but had a "bad fall" (i.e. wasn't playing well) but said Sheed had a good week of practice this week and played well tonight.

adukeforduke
11-08-2013, 10:23 PM
Rodney has the bank shot down. Comparison to D wade? Jabari was better than I hoped for and I was expecting a lot. his passing was INSANE!!

FerryFor50
11-08-2013, 10:23 PM
For a team with so many new parts, playing against a more veteran team, I can't believe how seamlessly we played on offense. Our team looked good. The extra passes, the ball movement, were fluid. There was no selfishness. There was good trust of teammates. This looked like a mid January offensive performance. Add more time and games together, and the kind of weaponry we're putting on the court, and this team could be scary on offense.

Defense wasn't bad at all. It could definitely improve, but our team held Davidson to 42% shooting. Davidson got their points by getting wayyyyy too many offensive boards (13) and shooting well at the foul line. Part of the rebounding was undoubtedly due to Amile being limited with foul trouble. Amile's our best rebounder, and capable of controlling the defensive boards...but he's got to be on the court to do it. I'd like to see the tempo adjusted defensive stats.

Absolutely impressive first performance. Hood and Parker were as good as advertised, and Cook looks like a bit of a kid in a candy store with the scorers he has to pass to.

A lot of the defensive woes were due to feeling out the new rules/officiating. That and the help defense wasn't always great...

BlueDevilBrowns
11-08-2013, 10:26 PM
I only got to see a few parts, but this is certainly going to be a fun team to watch. The defense will come with time, practice and effort.


Overall, hard to win by over thirty and be unhappy. Lots of great shooting, passing, effort on offense. Parker, Hood, Cook, Suliamon really look spectacular at times.... :D


It looks like the core is Parker, Hood, Cook, and Rasheed. Really hoping that AJ can establish more presence in the middle. How does a top-5 program like Duke go at home against a mid-Major like Davidson and get outrebounded? If we give up that many O-rebounds to them, imagine what a Kansas or Michigan or Syracuse is going to do!!! And how does our starting Center get ZERO rebounds? ZERO blocks? And just 2 fouls? Ugh. A couple things to be worried about. Again, overall, a great first effort. Defense just needs to catch up to the Offense now...



http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400502661

Part of being outrebounded is the fact we shot 70 percent from the floor. You can't rebound a made shot.

jipops
11-08-2013, 10:42 PM
I only got to see a few parts, but this is certainly going to be a fun team to watch. The defense will come with time, practice and effort.


Overall, hard to win by over thirty and be unhappy. Lots of great shooting, passing, effort on offense. Parker, Hood, Cook, Suliamon really look spectacular at times.... :D


It looks like the core is Parker, Hood, Cook, and Rasheed. Really hoping that AJ can establish more presence in the middle. How does a top-5 program like Duke go at home against a mid-Major like Davidson and get outrebounded? If we give up that many O-rebounds to them, imagine what a Kansas or Michigan or Syracuse is going to do!!! And how does our starting Center get ZERO rebounds? ZERO blocks? And just 2 fouls? Ugh. A couple things to be worried about. Again, overall, a great first effort. Defense just needs to catch up to the Offense now...



http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400502661

I'm betting our defensive scheme will be totally different against KU than tonight.

subzero02
11-08-2013, 10:45 PM
thoughts:

1. wow
2. jay williams may be right.
3. IC peeps already tearing us down
4. wow

What did jay williams say?

Native
11-08-2013, 10:46 PM
Really hoping that AJ can establish more presence in the middle.

I think he will. He picked up two early fouls tonight IIRC, so he didn't play a ton in the first half. He got it going in the second.

BlueDevilBrowns
11-08-2013, 10:48 PM
What did jay williams say?

He said on ESPN that Kansas would "destroy Duke inside".

InSpades
11-08-2013, 11:05 PM
Part of being outrebounded is the fact we shot 70 percent from the floor. You can't rebound a made shot.

I don't know if I follow this logic... they definitely had more offensive rebound opportunities... but they also got a higher percentage of them. We lost the rebounding battle no matter how you look at it I think.

That being said... I could care less about the rebounding battle. We won the point scoring battle very handily. In fact, we did the point scoring thing exceedingly well :). 1st time w/ 4 20 point scorers... well, ever. This is an NCAA tournament team we played and we dominated them mightily. We look like a very fun team to watch and will be very tough to beat. The defense will get better, the offense is already ridiculous. Though I doubt we'll shoot that well every night.

JPtheGame
11-08-2013, 11:08 PM
How quick Jay forgets. When Jay was killing it for Duke he had a couple of guys between 6'6 and 6'8 to man the inside. Yes, Boozer is solid in the post on O but his defense....c'mon. Back then, Duke and Jay kept from getting killed inside by swarming the guards and overplaying the passing lanes. If Duke lets KU walk it up and dump it in, it will be a long night. Something tells me Duke won't allow that to happen too often.

Billy Dat
11-08-2013, 11:16 PM
I haven't been this excited after a first game in years, and I definitely haven't been this excited about our team's potential since before Kyrie went down, and before that it was the moment we won the last National Championship. First game or not, when healthy, I strongly suspect we have a championship caliber team.


Honestly, I think having a big defensive anchor type center has become less valuable with the new rules this year. The new rules actually help our team a LOT. We have a ton of guys who are good at getting the paint and creating contact on layups. If the officials call all the games somewhat like they called tonight's game, we're just going to foul out guys who stay camped in the lane defensively. Rasheed had a clean block and got called. Hairston got whistled twice when he literally standing there with both hands up and the offensive player bumped into him on the way up. I feel way more confident in our chances against a major defensive big man if this is the way the calls are going to go from here on out.

Forget the 3 point shooting percentage for a second, we know that is not sustainable, it will likely be a season-high watermark. But, with kAzE's comment as a reference, the new defensive rules empower the sickest depth of dribble-drive talent we have ever rolled out. Prior to tonight, we saw it from Jabari, Hood and Jones. We knew Cook and Rasheed had it in them from last year, but tonight we saw it from both, especially Rasheed. But, we also saw it from Amile.

Having watched the two exhibitions, this was a large jump from those performances.

Jabari and Rodney dominated the first half. While Quinn played well in the first half, I was most impressed by the way he kicked us into gear in the second half. After a unimpressive flat first four minutes of the second, Quinn made a few plays on offense to break a scoring drought. Rasheed took the cue and starting driving with success. The increased pace picked us up on both sides of the ball and we never looked back.

I am excited because when the 3s aren't falling, we've got ways to make things happen on offense - driving and getting to the line. People keep saying that this is the most "Team USA" team that K has had at Duke since he became the National Team coach, and tonight I saw it. We spread and let guys go to work one-on-one rather than running a lot of screening action. The floor is open and our ability to face up and go one-on-one sparks defensive recoveries and help side movement and suddenly guys are open all over the floor, or the driving lanes are open. Davidson is no patsy and we steamrolled them.

I agree with everyone saying that this game can't be judged on rebounding stats or other box score anomalies. I also agree with those who say the defense will come. The concepts are there, we need more reps. Guys have to get used to Jabari trying to block shots and be ready to crash the boards while he is temporarily out of position. We went under too many high screens giving up open 3s, but that stuff will improve. The Amile foul trouble showed that Jabari can handle being the biggest guy on the court, he is a load.

I love that K went with a lot of depth.

We'll know a lot more after the Kansas game, but I am brimming with confidence after tonight. We have the pleasure of watching a different kind of Duke team than we have seen in a while, one with potential to really destroy high quality opponents. I can't wait for Tuesday, these guys are ready.

devildeac
11-08-2013, 11:21 PM
Even if they are not playing in the afternoon?

What a delight;)!

loran16
11-08-2013, 11:49 PM
1 comment: davidson's point total was not simply due to lots of possessions. They averaged over 1.1 point per possession which was bad.

That said most of that was free throws and Oboards. I expect the fts to be figured out eventually

Billy Dat
11-08-2013, 11:55 PM
Interesting stuff from the presser: (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209302845)

K On biggest defensive improvements since exhibition games:
“We didn’t pick up full court, in the two exhibition games we were kinda all over the court, and we were using energy, and not getting anything for it. So we picked up at three-quarter court and just tried to lock in on people, and that’s how we practiced all week. That doesn’t mean we’ll never press, but we can’t press them, they get it in so fast. They scored in about two seconds that one play in the first half, and almost scored again.”

I didn't pay attention to this, I was too busy watching the team score, but I think this was a key adjustment and we managed to push the ball more off solid half court D. Maybe the Drury perimeter attack was better than Davidson's, but seemed more focused by not extended to full court.

Jabari on the return to his hometown of Chicago for the upcoming matchup with Kansas:
“I need to just keep the game plan and don’t go outside of what we want to do. I know I’ve got individual goals, but I have to put that aside. What’s more important is the team. There are no individual matchups, [just] Duke versus Kansas. I’m going to take my guys, and our captains – I’m going to lean on their backs – and we’re going to come out with a win.”

I love the confidence and don't care if it becomes bulletin board material. Tuesday is gonna be HUGE!

Billy Dat
11-08-2013, 11:58 PM
Box Score Stuff:
-Jabari did what he did in only 23 minutes of PT
-Duke blocked 6 shots
-Rasheed had 7 boards
-We had only 4 turnovers as a team, Quinn had none in 34 minutes
-Andre had a Two Trillion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Titus)

A-Tex Devil
11-09-2013, 12:09 AM
I trust my gut. And my gut tells me that this is going to be an absolute blast of a team to watch. We may fall short since we are tiny. But I thought this might be a favorite team of mine and after one game in, I am certain this is my favorite team since 1999. Rodney Hood is awesome. I love that dude already.

duke4ever19
11-09-2013, 12:21 AM
I trust my gut. And my gut tells me that this is going to be an absolute blast of a team to watch. We may fall short since we are tiny. But I thought this might be a favorite team of mine and after one game in, I am certain this is my favorite team since 1999. Rodney Hood is awesome. I love that dude already.

I have been nostalgic for the days when we played at the pace I saw tonight. It's going to be hard for me not to keep comparing this team with that of '99. I know it's not fair to them because they need to establish their own identity. I was lucky to see that '99 team up close as a kid on a few occasions. Like many have said, we don't have an Elton Brand on this team, but the athleticism at the other positions is comparable.

Mcluhan
11-09-2013, 12:26 AM
Rodney Hood is awesome. I love that dude already.

Since he got one highlight between the two reels I watched, can you all describe his game a little bit for us?

A-Tex Devil
11-09-2013, 12:31 AM
Since he got one highlight between the two reels I watched, can you all describe his game a little bit for us?

Look at box score. He may lead team in points, rebounds or assists on any given night.

And Hood and Parker are so similar that it's next to impossible to shut both down.

We are tiny and will get killed ok boards all year. But this is the most talented team I remember in a while. Like 2004 or 1999.

Kedsy
11-09-2013, 12:34 AM
I realize foul trouble had a lot to do with this, but Amile, Josh, and Marshall combined for just 26 minutes, which means at least 14 minutes of small ball. (And I believe Amile and Josh played together for a couple minutes which means we played closer to 16 minutes of small ball.) Yeah, Davidson is a smallish team, but my guess is we'll play small 10 to 15 minutes every game.

Unadjusted ppp: our offense scored 1.56 points per possession, which is amazing; our defense gave up 1.08 points per possession, which isn't so good. Best thing to take from this game is we beat Pomeroy's #81 team by 34 points and at least defensively we have plenty of room for improvement. If our defensive efficiency improves, look out.

Also, while it's true we probably won't shoot 70% from the field or 62% from three-land all that often, the idea that we put up 1.56 ppp while shooting under 70% (68.8%, to be precise) from the line is almost mind-boggling.

Acymetric
11-09-2013, 01:07 AM
I realize foul trouble had a lot to do with this, but Amile, Josh, and Marshall combined for just 26 minutes, which means at least 14 minutes of small ball. (And I believe Amile and Josh played together for a couple minutes which means we played closer to 16 minutes of small ball.) Yeah, Davidson is a smallish team, but my guess is we'll play small 10 to 15 minutes every game.


Preparing for Duke is like preparing for 2 or 3 different teams because of how versatile/interchangeable our guys are...only Quinn (who I see as purely PG even though he may not bring the ball up every time) and Marshall are really locked into positions. Everyone else is capable of playing 2 or more positions at any given time, and everyone else except Josh can probably competently guard 3 positions (not just briefly on a switch, but for a somewhat extended period). I've been excited about this team for a while and while we were definitely breaking guys in and working out kinks in the preaseason (and will continue to do so) I loved what we saw tonight.

JPtheGame
11-09-2013, 01:55 AM
Rodney Hood reminds me of Scottie Pippen. Yes, Pippen was a much better defender but I don't know that he was a better defender at 20. Body type, Length, Diversity in his game, Quietly filling a box score, Playing seamlessly alongside a transcendent talent. Anyone want to second that emotion?

kAzE
11-09-2013, 02:05 AM
We'll know a lot more after the Kansas game, but I am brimming with confidence after tonight. We have the pleasure of watching a different kind of Duke team than we have seen in a while, one with potential to really destroy high quality opponents. I can't wait for Tuesday, these guys are ready.

Yeah, I feel the same way. After tonight, and then looking in at Kansas' performance against Louisiana Monroe (Just a 17 point win over a team that went 3-17 in the Sun Belt last year), I can confidently expect us to come out with a win in Chicago. I think we can win by double digits. Yes, they have some size inside, but the new rules are going to make it tough for them to stop our dribble penetration without fouling. Also, their guards just don't impress me very much. I think if we pressure 3/4 court, they are just going to have a nightmare getting their offense set up.

Whoever they have Wiggins guarding may have a little bit a tougher time scoring, be it Hood or Parker, but Parker has got a pretty significant size advantage on Wiggins and Hood can just make ridiculous contested shots from absurd angles. I don't know how you are supposed stop those two guys. If Sulaimon and Cook can carry over some of that shooting touch from tonight, it's gonna be a win for us, and it won't be close.

tommy
11-09-2013, 03:19 AM
Guys, I really think the handwringing over Davidson's offensive rebounding numbers is overwrought. I charted our defense and will be getting a more detailed analysis of our interior defense and rebounding up hopefully tomorrow, as it's getting late here now, but just kinda quickly on the defensive rebounding. I don't know if goduke.com or wherever might have Davidson with 14 o-boards, but ESPN had them with 13, and that's what matches closer to what I tracked. But what really did those plays consist of, and more importantly, what do they really say about our effort and/or ability on the d-boards?

First off, it should be noted that the great majority of their o-boards came while they were down anywhere from 15 to 35 points. Most of this game was extended garbage time. Now of course Duke is trained to play hard for 40 minutes no matter what, and I'm sure they did, but there is still human nature and I'm not sure that the guys played with exactly Final Four intensity during all of that second half, when Davidson got 10 of the 13 credited o-boards.

So here's what the 13 were:

1. At 10:41 of the first half (all the times are give or take a few seconds) Davidson missed a long jumper and it resulted in a long rebound that bounced over Marshall's head. Davidson then jacked up a 3 that missed. Legitimately counts as an OR, but it's not like we got outworked or out-heighted or outhustled on the board. Just a long bounce. Happens to even the strongest rebounding teams.

2. Nothing else until 1:35 remained in the half. Brooks missed the second of his 2 FT's, and Hood was beaten for the o-board. Kalinoski missed the follow shot and then Brooks followed again with . . .

3. His follow shot over Hood and Parker for the hoop. The play was kind of haphazard after Kalinoski's rebound of the free throw, but give Davidson credit for these. They hustled.

Second half:

4. At 1923 Brooks got credited with an OR but it's bogus, or maybe a better word would be meaningless. What happened was Kalinoski had his 3 pointer on the wing blocked by Thornton and the ball happened to come down and land in Brooks' hands 12' away from the hoop and facing away. It was a positive defensive play by Duke and hardly indicative of a failing of our defensive rebounding. This kind of play shouldn't count as an offensive rebound at all, but some sort of loose ball recovery or something.

5. At 1829, Sulaimon was beaten off the dribble down the lane, Jabari helped, helped force a missed shot, but his jumping out (as was necessary) left the guard Droney open for the easy put-back. Yes, it's a legitimate OR stat, but the root cause was not a lapse in our big guys' rebounding, but rather our guard being beaten by dribble penetration.

6. 1744 another bogus OR stat. On this one Kalinoski led a fast break and missed a driving shot. He followed his miss as it bounded over on the right baseline where he and Jabari scrambled for it, and Jabari got called for a foul in the tussle. Kalinoski got credited for an OR on that one. Again, more of a loose ball play to me.

7. The next one is two OR's. At 1737, Josh got a little lax in pulling down a defensive rebound and Kalinoski basically ripped it away from him low and threw it up and missed. . .

8. Kalinoski's missed shot, at around 1730, came back and he rebounded it again (and missed again and we finally grabbed it for good). These two definitely should count as legitimate OR's by Davidson.

9. At 1311, Hood was beaten on the drive but the shot was missed. Unfortunately, Rasheed did not block out well. Brooks grabbed the o-board and Rasheed fouled him on the putback. Brooks hit both FT's. I didn't note why our 2-guard was in a position to have to try to block out their big man, but that's where he found himself. Tough assignment.

10. At 1205, Davidson's man posted up against Hood, shot over him, but Marshall came over and blocked the shot nicely. Having left Brooks in order to do so, though, Brooks was able to get the o-board/loose ball and shoot it, but Marshall got over and contested that shot too, which was missed. Brooks gets credit for the OR, but this was perfectly good interior play by Plumlee.

11. At 737, (we're really in blowout mode now, up 25) Rodney was again beaten to the rack, Jabari helped and altered the shot but his man McAuliffe was therefore free for the easy putback. Same analysis as #5 above. Yes, it's a legitimate OR stat, but the root cause was not a lapse in our big guys' rebounding, but rather our perimeter player being beaten by dribble penetration.

12. See 11, but the time was 652 and replace "Rodney" with "Matt Jones." Otherwise, identical.

13. At 444, this time it was Matt who was beaten to the hoop, and the Davidson player's shot was rebounded by Czerapowicz over Thornton and Hood. He was fouled on his putback and hit both FT's. OK fine.

That's it. To me, the only ones that are the types of offensive rebounds that are any type of "concern," meaning they're plays where our interior players were either too small, not strong enough, not athletic enough, got out-battled, etc. -- meaning the types of plays that many Duke fans feared would be our achilles heel this year, were plays 2, 7, 8, 9, and 13. 3 sorta kinda counts but not really. That's only five (or at most 6) times in a fast-paced 40 minute blowout where Amile didn't play much, and hardly constitutes getting manhandled on the boards. If we were to have cut off dribble penetration better (and it was WAY better than the last two years), plays 5, 11, and 12 wouldn't have happened. Then there were the couple of plays that counted as OR's but probably shouldn't have.

Message: relax. Of course Kansas will be a whole different animal in this department, and they may in fact hammer us on the boards. They may hammer a lot of teams on the boards this year. But tonight, our performance in this area against Davidson was just fine.

duke96
11-09-2013, 06:47 AM
Sounds like a great game to watch. Don't suppose anyone can point to a site to watch the replay?

El_Diablo
11-09-2013, 06:53 AM
Sounds like a great game to watch. Don't suppose anyone can point to a site to watch the replay?

espn3.com

flyingdutchdevil
11-09-2013, 07:08 AM
In high school, analysts compared Jabari to Carmelo Anthony. In the preseason, fans and analysts compared Jabari to Carmelo Anthony.

You know what? I think those comparisons are spot on. Jabari is such a threat because he can score from everywhere; 3pt line, mid range jumper, off the dribble, in the post, in transition - you name it. Melo is identical.

Now, hopefuly Jabari becomes a better defender. Melo is mediocre, and I think under K, Jabari will succeed. But he has a looooong way to go.

roywhite
11-09-2013, 07:14 AM
Since he got one highlight between the two reels I watched, can you all describe his game a little bit for us?

Lots to like, but just love Rodney's ability to finish. He can dribble drive to close to the basket and then uses his length, body control, and accurate shooting to get the bucket. Rodney doesn't need much space to get off a shot, and his use of the glass is delicious. Also, on the one shot he did miss, we saw him capture the ball and quickly score on the put-back. Smooth and deadly.

oldnavy
11-09-2013, 07:15 AM
An embarrassment of riches on the offensive side of the ball. Tough to make a call on the defense when it is whistled that closely. I think it is going to take a period of adjustment for all involved before we can see if this team can defend as tenaciously as we would hope. Rebounding will be a concern unless one of Amile, Alex or MP3 can step up. You can't give up 13 offensive rebounds to Davidson.

It is only one game, but I am really impressed with Rodney and Jabari.

Agree 100 percent with this post. Defense will lag behind offense (sort of the opposite of most years) due to the new rules.

Plus don't forget Davidson in not a bad team by any measure, older players who are VERY well coached. They will exploit gaps and breakdowns better than a lot of teams.

oldnavy
11-09-2013, 07:24 AM
What a delight;)!

Is that a Starland Vocal Band reference??? Dude what does that say about you referencing it and even worse me getting the reference.... we listened to too much music in the 70's..

flyingdutchdevil
11-09-2013, 07:33 AM
Jabari and Hood played a helluva game. But Quinn was spectacular. It's not just the 21 pts (although that helped). but his 8 assists and 0 TURNOVERS is a thing of beauty. He played smart, he played composed, and he rarely forced anything (I think he had 2 threes that were forced. One went in and the other didn't).

We all knew that Quinn could do that. However, the biggest change I saw was Quinn's composure. No more head tilting to the side when things don't go our way or slowly jogging back. Rather, that intensity that we know as Quinn was there 100% of the time.

Like everyone, I'm drooling thinking about Tuesday's games. But I'll be studying Quinn thoroughly.

Sidenote - his D was good, although I think it can get much better. Jones and Rasheed had the best D yesterday.

BD80
11-09-2013, 08:32 AM
Durham was settled by the Germans in 1904.

Just before they bombed Pearl Harbor, starting WWI.

Yeah, I did it, I went old school on you. Not Old School, unless we go streaking.


I realize foul trouble had a lot to do with this, but Amile, Josh, and Marshall combined for just 26 minutes, which means at least 14 minutes of small ball. (And I believe Amile and Josh played together for a couple minutes which means we played closer to 16 minutes of small ball.) Yeah, Davidson is a smallish team, but my guess is we'll play small 10 to 15 minutes every game.

Unadjusted ppp: our offense scored 1.56 points per possession, which is amazing; our defense gave up 1.08 points per possession, which isn't so good. Best thing to take from this game is we beat Pomeroy's #81 team by 34 points and at least defensively we have plenty of room for improvement. If our defensive efficiency improves, look out.

Also, while it's true we probably won't shoot 70% from the field or 62% from three-land all that often, the idea that we put up 1.56 ppp while shooting under 70% (68.8%, to be precise) from the line is almost mind-boggling.

Fair to say we'll average 10-15 minutes of small ball, but it will be mostly situational. Marshall will get more PT against teams with big front courts, and you'll see 4-5 ballhandlers when we are milking a lead.

As for freethrow inaccuracy v our shooting from the floor at a rather frenetic pace, I am reminded of the Sundance Kid: "Can I move?"


... Now, hopefuly Jabari becomes a better defender. Melo is mediocre, and I think under K, Jabari will succeed. But he has a looooong way to go.

Melo was an excellent defender when he played for Coach K

slower
11-09-2013, 08:35 AM
After tonight, and then looking in at Kansas' performance against Louisiana Monroe (Just a 17 point win over a team that went 3-17 in the Sun Belt last year), I can confidently expect us to come out with a win in Chicago. I think we can win by double digits.

If Sulaimon and Cook can carry over some of that shooting touch from tonight, it's gonna be a win for us, and it won't be close.

Oh, Dear God. After ONE game? Check yourself, man - seriously.

I mean, you may end up being right. But if you are, it's nothing more than a lucky guess.

roywhite
11-09-2013, 08:45 AM
Duke rolls past Davidson in opener (http://duke.scout.com/2/1344704.html)

Article by AP writer Joedy Mc Creary posted in TDD makes some interesting points as to just how good the shooting was:


Duke had four 20-point scorers in the same game for the first time in school history. The Atlantic Coast Conference favorites shot 70.4 percent — just the sixth time in school history that it was better than 70 percent for a game

captmojo
11-09-2013, 08:46 AM
Lots to like, but just love Rodney's ability to finish. He can dribble drive to close to the basket and then uses his length, body control, and accurate shooting to get the bucket. Rodney doesn't need much space to get off a shot, and his use of the glass is delicious. Also, on the one shot he did miss, we saw him capture the ball and quickly score on the put-back. Smooth and deadly.

Thankfully another sees the backboard as more than just a rim hanger! I think that offensive stick-back should have skewed the stats.

arnie
11-09-2013, 08:49 AM
Box Score Stuff:
-Jabari did what he did in only 23 minutes of PT
-Duke blocked 6 shots
-Rasheed had 7 boards
-We had only 4 turnovers as a team, Quinn had none in 34 minutes
-Andre had a Two Trillion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Titus)

Surprised Dawkins only got 2 minutes in a blowout. Guess K wants to see how other guard combos work together. Incidentally, Dawkins still had as many FG, rebounds, assists & blocks as Hairston.

captmojo
11-09-2013, 09:00 AM
And another thing...these Wildcats are no slouch. Sure, Cohen is gone, but they're mostly upperclass returnees.
They will learn and improve from this loss. They have coaching that proves this. Expect and watch for better things from them throughout the season.

uh_no
11-09-2013, 09:03 AM
Guys, I really think the handwringing over Davidson's offensive rebounding numbers is overwrought.

Great analysis. Given, I'm sure in general some of it goes both ways. I think, though, that 18 missed three pointers will tend to lend itself to a higher offensive rebounding %. Hard to draw huge conclusions from a sample size totaling one game...we'll see if it's an issue going forward, for sure.

CDu
11-09-2013, 09:17 AM
espn3.com

Actually, I don't see it available on ESPN3 in the replay section. I suspect GoDuke.com is the only option.

Billy Dat
11-09-2013, 09:32 AM
Oh, Dear God. After ONE game? Check yourself, man - seriously.

I mean, you may end up being right. But if you are, it's nothing more than a lucky guess.

While I won't go as far as kAzE in guaranteeing a win, I am 100% on board with his over the top enthusiasm after watching last night, trying to tamp down my own ebullience feels false in this case. It is a testament to K's ability to mold a team to suits its strengths that we are seeing a style of play we have not seen from Duke, maybe, ever, specifically on offense. It's early, but I share kAzE's excitement over this brand new "thing" we get to obsess over.

MCFinARL
11-09-2013, 09:43 AM
Is that a Starland Vocal Band reference??? Dude what does that say about you referencing it and even worse me getting the reference.... we listened to too much music in the 70's..

Yup--
Third in a string of Starland Vocal Band references--or at least I am assuming the original post "skyrockets in flight" was a Starland Vocal Band reference, since i responded accordingly.

So there are a lot of us in that boat. :)

MCFinARL
11-09-2013, 09:46 AM
Surprised Dawkins only got 2 minutes in a blowout. Guess K wants to see how other guard combos work together. Incidentally, Dawkins still had as many FG, rebounds, assists & blocks as Hairston.

Personally very sorry to see it is Dawkins we are talking about here, as I would love to see him get more time, but I suspect this is only the first of many posts this season (like every season) focusing on the way Coach K deploys (or more often, doesn't deploy) his deep bench in blowouts.

Henderson
11-09-2013, 09:49 AM
Actually, I don't see it available on ESPN3 in the replay section.

It's on ESPN3.com. Just scroll down in the replay section. There is a lot stacked ahead of the Duke-Davidson game.

MCFinARL
11-09-2013, 09:52 AM
Just before they bombed Pearl Harbor, starting WWI.

Yeah, I did it, I went old school on you. Not Old School, unless we go streaking.



This situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture.

Indoor66
11-09-2013, 10:01 AM
Durham was settled by the Germans in 1904.That was just after they bombed Pearl Harbor.

devildeac
11-09-2013, 10:11 AM
Is that a Starland Vocal Band reference??? Dude what does that say about you referencing it and even worse me getting the reference.... we listened to too much music in the 70's..

I was following the line of lyrics started upthread and yes, it was a Starland Vocal Band reference, much to my embarrassment that I remember the group/song/lyrics. I was much more of a rock fan and likely listened to too much of the same music as you did in the 70s:o.

KShip21
11-09-2013, 10:40 AM
Rasheed Sulaimon; the reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Amen! I know this quote was a few pages back, but Sheed's mentality reminds me a little bit of Jon Scheyer. He is a true team guy, and will do anything he needs for the better of the team. Whether it's in the starting lineup, or coming off the bench, his contributions are important and will not change if he's part of pre game intros or not. He's going to give you starter minutes and numbers. Love this Kid! He may get overlooked by the potential "big three" at times, but his contributions are just as crucial to this team's success. Great to see that from him last night. Keep it up.

OZZIE4DUKE
11-09-2013, 11:06 AM
Parker's dunk was amazing. You can't see it well on TV from the angles I've seen on replay, but from where I was sitting (upstairs, to the right of the band if you're behind them), Jabari caught the errant pass with two hands, well behind his head about 35 feet from the basket, and threw it down into the net! OK, not 35 feet, but certainly 5 feet. I never thought he'd get his hands on the high, errant pass, much less do what he did with it! Grant Hill-esque, with two hands, to say the least! :cool::cool::cool::cool:

OZZIE4DUKE
11-09-2013, 11:13 AM
Originally Posted by devildeac http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://forums.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?p=674610#post674610) What a delight!


Is that a Starland Vocal Band reference??? Dude what does that say about you referencing it and even worse me getting the reference.... we listened to too much music in the 70's..



Yeah, I did it, I went old school on you. Not Old School, unless we go streaking.


Jabari was a sky rocket in flight! (see my post above!)

Did someone say we should go streaking???!!! :cool:http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

Beat State! http://www.crazietalk.net/ourhouse/images/smilies/devil9f.gif

sagegrouse
11-09-2013, 11:13 AM
I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Durham was settled well before, and incorporated just after the civil war. Weird.

-jk

Neither you nor I are in on the running joke on pp. 1-2.

sage

Native
11-09-2013, 11:30 AM
Parker's dunk was amazing. You can't see it well on TV from the angles I've seen on replay, but from where I was sitting (upstairs, to the right of the band if you're behind them), Jabari caught the errant pass with two hands, well behind his head about 35 feet from the basket, and threw it down into the net! OK, not 35 feet, but certainly 5 feet. I never thought he'd get his hands on the high, errant pass, much less do what he did with it! Grant Hill-esque, with two hands, to say the least! :cool::cool::cool::cool:

Agreed. As someone in the front row of the Crazie section, the TV replay did not do it justice.

We're in for a treat this year.

devildeac
11-09-2013, 11:31 AM
Neither you nor I are in on the running joke on pp. 1-2.

sage

That makes three of us:o.

sagegrouse
11-09-2013, 11:37 AM
Notes on shooting percentage and scoring distribution


Duke rolls past Davidson in opener

Article by AP writer Joedy Mc Creary posted in TDD makes some interesting points as to just how good the shooting was:

"Duke had four 20-point scorers in the same game for the first time in school history. The Atlantic Coast Conference favorites shot 70.4 percent — just the sixth time in school history that it was better than 70 percent for a game."

I don't trust the twenty-somethings in the SID's office, so I did my own research. It may, in fact, have been the first time with four 20+ scorers, but there is a small asterisk.

On December 29, 1962, Duke beat Wake 113-87 and the top scorers were 27, 25, 20 and 18. The last was by Rev. Buzzy Harrison, who let us down by missing a shot or two. The other scorers were Heyman and Mullins, of course, plus the physicker, Dr. Jay Buckley. But Ol' Guy Stats notes that the scoring was without a three-point line and a shot clock.

I checked all the 100-point games between 1962 and 1966.

sagegrouse
'No, I did not attend that game'

Troublemaker
11-09-2013, 11:54 AM
Great to see the guys respond so well after, in their own words, a disappointing performance against Drury. It's one thing to talk about playing better, but to put words into action immediately is another thing. According to Coach K, the team practiced and prepared extremely well all week and then obviously their form held up in the actual game leading to a well-deserved easy victory.

Likewise, very nice to see the team have a great shooting day from 2 and 3 point range after not shooting well in the preseason. We obviously won't shoot that well in the vast majority of games (i.e. to a large extent, we were just hot), but Duke should continue to be an outstanding off the dribble team, which results in layups (that boost 2-pt shooting percentages) and open 3s on ball reversal when the defense collapses. Still need to hit those FTs better, though. But yeah, we have 4 or 5 guys who are very good off the bounce. On that note, great to see Sheed bounce back in a big way following his illness and some slight struggles in the preseason.

Right now, there appears to be an 8-man rotation with the last 4 guys Murphy, Plumlee, Dawkins and Ojeleye available for spot duty when there's foul trouble or a blowout afoot. Because those last 4 guys are pretty talented themselves, I'd still bet on us seeing some "rotation mobility" this season where one of those four ends up in the regular rotation even if he isn't there Game 1. For now, they'll get opportunities to play regardless because several of our non-conference foes are likely to be blown out and because the team is still learning to play without fouling under the new rules/emphases.

Speaking of which, Duke finished with only two fewer fouls than Davidson. In the good stat department, though, and there were many good stats, but 16 assists and 4 turnovers was probably the best. It just makes sense the Duke is going to be a very good A:TO ratio team this year. We have a starting PG that's great in that area, a bevy of talented options at the 2, and then, how many teams have a 3 that can handle the ball like Hood or a 4 that can handle like Parker? It just makes sense.

Duke obviously has great athleticism this year and we'll pound on opponents with lesser athletes. It won't look quite the same as this blowout most of the time. I'd expect lesser shooting, more turnovers forced, and hopefully better foul ratios and rebounding most of the time. But yeah, there'll be some nice margins of victory this season.

CDu
11-09-2013, 12:11 PM
It's on ESPN3.com. Just scroll down in the replay section. There is a lot stacked ahead of the Duke-Davidson game.

Thanks. Was looking on ESPN3 on my iPhone. It had many games, but did not include our game.

MCFinARL
11-09-2013, 12:16 PM
That makes three of us:o.

It's a clash of pop culture references--original posts made references to the movie Anchorman; these segued into Starland Vocal Band references because there is a scene in Anchorman where Ron Burgundy (played by Will Ferrell, if you are not familiar) and some other characters randomly start singing "Afternoon Delight." Having seen Anchorman only once and apparently weirdly immune to its charms, I furthered the SVB line of posts before I picked up the movie reference--which I finally figured out when BD80 made his "old school not Old School" reference to Animal House.

Bottom line--we all apparently have too much time on our hands and too much junk in our brains. :D

PS--I may well have missed a lot of other references--other posters, feel free to call me out.

jimsumner
11-09-2013, 12:21 PM
Davidson's only chance to win was to make a boatload of 3s.

Duke's defensive priority was to take away those open shots.

Davidson was 3-21 on 3s. Mission accomplished.

As a consequence, that opened up offensive rebounding opportunities for Davidson. And they did capitalize, a little more than I would have preferred. But that was a tradeoff Duke was willing to make against Davidson and a tradeoff Duke will not make against most of the teams on their schedule, Kansas included.

It also should be noted that Amile Jefferson played all of 11 minutes and grabbed zero rebounds. We all knew that he wasn't going to be the rebounding machine he was against under-sized Drury but he also should be able to raise his season rpg average somewhere over 0.0.

So, that should help.

FWIW, Parker volunteered after the game that he needed to do a better job rebounding. So, it's out there.

Duke rarely dominates on the glass. Some really, really good Duke teams have been ordinary rebounding teams. I would settle for ordinary in this area because I think Duke can dominate in so many other areas. As long as Duke isn't steamrolled on the glass, I think they can more than compensate elsewhere.

Potato Head
11-09-2013, 01:26 PM
FWIW, Parker volunteered after the game that he needed to do a better job rebounding. So, it's out there.

This would be a good time to again mention Rodney's fantastic all-around game. For as amazing an offensive debut as Jabari had, Rodney had an impact on defense and on the boards, in addition to chipping in a quiet 22 of his own.

DavidBenAkiva
11-09-2013, 01:48 PM
Right now, there appears to be an 8-man rotation with the last 4 guys Murphy, Plumlee, Dawkins and Ojeleye available for spot duty when there's foul trouble or a blowout afoot. Because those last 4 guys are pretty talented themselves, I'd still bet on us seeing some "rotation mobility" this season where one of those four ends up in the regular rotation even if he isn't there Game 1. For now, they'll get opportunities to play regardless because several of our non-conference foes are likely to be blown out and because the team is still learning to play without fouling under the new rules/emphases.

I am not so sure about including Murphy and Plumlee in the "last four" category of the rotation based on this one game. Davidson was a small team, and K opted go small against them. There were many stretches where Cook, Thornton, and Sulaimon were out there with only Hood and Parker at the Forward positions. It certainly helped that Sulaimon grabbed 7 rebounds.

Against teams with some real size - Kansas, Arizona (if we play them in the NIT), UNC, etc. - I can envision Murphy and Plumlee getting a lot more PT. Jones and Hairston seem to be solidly in the rotation along with the starters + Sulaimon/Thornton at this point. I expect a 9- or 10-man rotation throughout most of the year with Murphy and Plumlee playing more or less depending upon 1) how they progress (especially Plumlee following the foot injury over the summer), and 2) the size of the opponent.

This depth is unreal.

OldPhiKap
11-09-2013, 02:18 PM
Yup--
Third in a string of Starland Vocal Band references--or at least I am assuming the original post "skyrockets in flight" was a Starland Vocal Band reference, since i responded accordingly.

So there are a lot of us in that boat. :)

I wonder if "Love, American Style" is on Netflix.......

gocanes0506
11-09-2013, 02:27 PM
I am not overly worried about the D in this game. The new rules make the traditional D very hard to do. On top of that holding them to 1.1 points per possession is pretty good. It shows that Davidson scored on less than half of their possessions. I say that because they made threes and that pushed them over the 1 PPP mark. The team does need to improve on communication and fighting through during screens. I saw a few breakdowns of poor playing during screens that led to open threes for Davidson. That will improve as the team plays together.

We will have to live with giving up some O rebounds. Sul had 7 rebounds, which is great, but it was due to the constant switching during screens. Parker and Hood where forced to take the shooter during screens and Sul had to rotate down to take the screener. Sul did great at getting most rebounds but he was outmatched at some points too. Maybe it was just the D plan for Davidson because even their 4 and 5 were not going to outsize our 2 and 3 by very much.

The shooting was phenomenal as the stats showed. I would like to see more driving to the basket though. They more strict D rules will bail the driver out on some out of control drives. It happened a couple of times last night where the driver was out of control but contact drew the foul. Until, teams learn to leave out of control players alone fouls will be called and bail them out. With the score, I can not complain about anything the O will do.

The team does need to improve FT percentage though. Under 70% FT shooting could cost this team a close game or two. They need to be around 80% to feel comfortable. Duke has way too many shooters not to be there. Atleast the team doesn't have a Howard who shoots under 50%.

I think the style of play we have really benefits Murphy and I was glad to see him get some good amount of minutes. The team had 7 players with more than 10 minutes and had 11 people play. I was surprised Dawkins didn't play more. Was there an injury that I didn't catch during the game? He had his warm-ups on most (if not al) of the 2nd half showing me he wasn't expecting to go in. The system will be fun to watch and Tuesday will show how we perform against a top level and big team.

BD80
11-09-2013, 02:42 PM
Finally got to watch the game:

I know I supposed to like him, but I don't like seeing Tyler in the game. I don't think he can create offense, he tends to slow the flow if the ball gets to him, and he doesn't appear to me to be the defender everyone says he is. Don't like his chippiness.

I figured out why Rodney missed a shot (that he then rebounded and scored) - he shoots with the wrong hand.

DukieInBrasil
11-09-2013, 02:51 PM
I know I supposed to like him, but I don't like seeing Tyler in the game. I don't think he can create offense, he tends to slow the flow if the ball gets to him, and he doesn't appear to me to be the defender everyone says he is. Don't like his chippiness.

I also don't quite see the greatness in Thornton's defense that others see, but it's undeniable that he's valuable to the team, has a positive influence on the overall team defense and scores a few points here and there. He's not horribly inefficient on offense, but like you said he doesn't really create for others very well and the offense tends to get clogged if he gets the ball on offense for something other than a catch and shoot. If TT stays within his role (ie., opportunistic offense and high-intensity defense) i think he's a valuable player to have. Just cuz he's not the most exciting player is no reason to disparage him. He's, by all accounts, the consummate team player, and on a team with so much underclass talent, it's good to have upperclassman leadership.

camion
11-09-2013, 03:01 PM
Finally got to watch the game:

I know I supposed to like him, but I don't like seeing Tyler in the game. I don't think he can create offense, he tends to slow the flow if the ball gets to him, and he doesn't appear to me to be the defender everyone says he is. Don't like his chippiness.

I figured out why Rodney missed a shot (that he then rebounded and scored) - he shoots with the wrong hand.

Most people shoot with the right hand.

Rodney shoots with the correct hand. :)

MCFinARL
11-09-2013, 03:23 PM
I wonder if "Love, American Style" is on Netflix.......

Ah, the 70's--they just keep giving and giving!

slower
11-09-2013, 03:24 PM
While I won't go as far as kAzE in guaranteeing a win, I am 100% on board with his over the top enthusiasm after watching last night, trying to tamp down my own ebullience feels false in this case. It is a testament to K's ability to mold a team to suits its strengths that we are seeing a style of play we have not seen from Duke, maybe, ever, specifically on offense. It's early, but I share kAzE's excitement over this brand new "thing" we get to obsess over.

Don't get me wrong - I loved what I saw last night. But for anybody to say that they expect an easy win over another Top 5 team, in a national marquee game, is just foolish.

Charlie Brown ain't gonna try to kick this football, not just yet.

Kedsy
11-09-2013, 03:48 PM
Against teams with some real size - Kansas, Arizona (if we play them in the NIT), UNC, etc. - I can envision Murphy and Plumlee getting a lot more PT. Jones and Hairston seem to be solidly in the rotation along with the starters + Sulaimon/Thornton at this point. I expect a 9- or 10-man rotation throughout most of the year with Murphy and Plumlee playing more or less depending upon 1) how they progress (especially Plumlee following the foot injury over the summer), and 2) the size of the opponent.

This depth is unreal.

I'll be very surprised if the 9th and 10th men in any close game even approach the 13 combined minutes that Alex and Marshall had against Davidson. Their minutes almost certainly won't be higher and will likely be far lower, considering that Amile played only 11 minutes and Jabari only 23. In most contested games, Rodney, Jabari and Quinn should play between 30 and 35 minutes, Rasheed between 25 and 30, Amile between 20 and 25, and two other wing players between 15 and 25 (at the moment that's Tyler and Matt). That leaves between 10 and 20 minutes for the 8th through 12th players, which means players 9 and 10 will split at most 5 to 10 minutes.

Obviously in blowouts the guys at the bottom of the rotation will get more minutes, like Alex and Marshall did against Davidson, but even there it's unrealistic to expect "a lot more PT" for those two, unless Alex supplants Matt in the rotation or Marshall supplants Josh.


I am not overly worried about the D in this game. The new rules make the traditional D very hard to do. On top of that holding them to 1.1 points per possession is pretty good.

Our defensive points per possession was 1.084, unadjusted. Pomeroy's rankings are adjusted, but to put our number against Davidson in perspective, allowing 1.084 per possession would have been 302nd in the country last season in Pomeroy's rankings. That's not "pretty good," no matter how you slice it.



The team does need to improve FT percentage though. Under 70% FT shooting could cost this team a close game or two. They need to be around 80% to feel comfortable. Duke has way too many shooters not to be there. Atleast the team doesn't have a Howard who shoots under 50%.


Free throw percentages in their most recent college season:

Quinn Cook: 87.7%
Rasheed Sulaimon: 80.2%
Andre Dawkins: 73.9%
Josh Hairston: 69.2%
Tyler Thornton: 68.0%
Rodney Hood: 65.9%
Amile Jefferson: 61.0%
Alex Murphy: 41.7%
Marshall Plumlee: 0.0%

Plus, Jabari does not have a reputation as a great free throw shooter. So unless Quinn and Rasheed take all the free throws I don't think we're going to get close to 80%. The 68.8% we shot against Davidson is probably about what we can expect for most of the season.

Put another way, the top free throw shooting team in the nation last season was (coincidentally) Davidson, a team that shot 79.5% from the line. Nobody in the whole country shot 80%. It is highly unlikely that Duke will come anywhere close to that number this season.



I know I supposed to like him, but I don't like seeing Tyler in the game. I don't think he can create offense, he tends to slow the flow if the ball gets to him, and he doesn't appear to me to be the defender everyone says he is. Don't like his chippiness.

Tyler has a lot of good qualities. Coach K calls him our best communicator, for one thing, and he has a toughness that we need. That said, I agree with you. I think he tends to bog down the offense when he's in, and with Rodney, Matt and improved Quinn added to Rasheed in our perimeter defense, Tyler's great help D isn't as necessary as it once was (again, I agree with you that Tyler's one-on-one defense isn't as great as his reputation, but he is an excellent help defender). Personally, I'd be happier with Tyler playing 10 to 15 mpg instead of the 28 minutes he put in against Davidson.

That said, obviously Coach K doesn't agree with us, and it looks like we ought to get used to seeing Tyler play starter's minutes for the foreseeable future.

mr. synellinden
11-09-2013, 04:00 PM
I was really impressed with Sulaimon's game -especially his defense. Watch Davidson's possession at about the 16 minute mark after a 3 point play by Quinn. He switches off his man to another about 4 times and constantly communicates with his teammates about the switches. Did the same thing well on the following defensive possession. From about the 15:30 mark to the 13:15 mark he also made several great offensive plays. He has a driving 3 point play. A great drive and pass to Hood that Rodney fumbles for a turnover. A drive and great kick out pass to a wide open Thornton and finally a drive and pull up jumper.

I really think he will be the player who takes us from great to special this year (or not). No pressure Rasheed.

Troublemaker
11-09-2013, 04:12 PM
I am not so sure about including Murphy and Plumlee in the "last four" category of the rotation based on this one game. Davidson was a small team, and K opted go small against them. There were many stretches where Cook, Thornton, and Sulaimon were out there with only Hood and Parker at the Forward positions. It certainly helped that Sulaimon grabbed 7 rebounds.

Against teams with some real size - Kansas, Arizona (if we play them in the NIT), UNC, etc. - I can envision Murphy and Plumlee getting a lot more PT. Jones and Hairston seem to be solidly in the rotation along with the starters + Sulaimon/Thornton at this point. I expect a 9- or 10-man rotation throughout most of the year with Murphy and Plumlee playing more or less depending upon 1) how they progress (especially Plumlee following the foot injury over the summer), and 2) the size of the opponent.

This depth is unreal.

I'm basing it on the exhibitions as well, so three games. There just seems to be a clear divide for now b/w the top 8 and the rest based on both minutes played and the timestamps/circumstances of when they enter the game for the first time (e.g. after the first TV timeout is very different from entering in the 2nd half or when Duke needs to avoid further foul trouble against the top 8). That said, if Kansas is really hammering Duke inside on the boards or with postup scoring, I don't see why MP3 couldn't get into the game much earlier than usual, for example (unless he's just not that good at this point). But I don't think that'll be the default mode. I don't think MP3's minutes would be all that different from the two exhibitions + Davidson game if Duke happens to be winning the speed vs size battle inside vs Kansas. There's also the matter of just how many teams have talented size inside like Kansas. Even if Coach K is planning on playing two different rotations according to the size of the opponent, the relatively small opponents are still going to pop up on the schedule much more frequently.

BD80
11-09-2013, 04:19 PM
Most people shoot with the right hand.

Rodney shoots with the correct hand. :)

If lovin' Hood is wrong, I don't want to be right.


... obviously Coach K doesn't agree with us, ...

How has he managed to keep his job?

MChambers
11-09-2013, 05:45 PM
Tyler has a lot of good qualities. Coach K calls him our best communicator, for one thing, and he has a toughness that we need. That said, I agree with you. I think he tends to bog down the offense when he's in, and with Rodney, Matt and improved Quinn added to Rasheed in our perimeter defense, Tyler's great help D isn't as necessary as it once was (again, I agree with you that Tyler's one-on-one defense isn't as great as his reputation, but he is an excellent help defender). Personally, I'd be happier with Tyler playing 10 to 15 mpg instead of the 28 minutes he put in against Davidson.

That said, obviously Coach K doesn't agree with us, and it looks like we ought to get used to seeing Tyler play starter's minutes for the foreseeable future.

My eyes agree with you guys and not Coach K, but also I feel compelled to point out that Tyler the best +/- yesterday. Josh's +/- was surprisingly good, too. I know, I know, plus minus has a lot of flaws. But maybe Tyler and Josh are contributing in ways we don't fully appreciate, especially away from the ball.

Billy Dat
11-09-2013, 06:00 PM
FWIW, the announcers last night noted that with Collins gone, Wojo is now coaching the guards and Capel is coaching the bigs....so we've still got that PG coaching bigs problem....which is nice.

MChambers
11-09-2013, 06:24 PM
FWIW, the announcers last night noted that with Collins gone, Wojo is now coaching the guards and Capel is coaching the bigs....so we've still got that PG coaching bigs problem....which is nice.
I heard that. You're right of course, but Jeff is bigger than Wojo, plus he coached Blake Griffin, so he won't get as much grief.

oldnavy
11-09-2013, 08:14 PM
I was following the line of lyrics started upthread and yes, it was a Starland Vocal Band reference, much to my embarrassment that I remember the group/song/lyrics. I was much more of a rock fan and likely listened to too much of the same music as you did in the 70s:o.

I was a rocker as well, but "Afternoon Delight" does have it's place in my memory bank, wink wink!

oldnavy
11-09-2013, 08:25 PM
I also don't quite see the greatness in Thornton's defense that others see, but it's undeniable that he's valuable to the team, has a positive influence on the overall team defense and scores a few points here and there. He's not horribly inefficient on offense, but like you said he doesn't really create for others very well and the offense tends to get clogged if he gets the ball on offense for something other than a catch and shoot. If TT stays within his role (ie., opportunistic offense and high-intensity defense) i think he's a valuable player to have. Just cuz he's not the most exciting player is no reason to disparage him. He's, by all accounts, the consummate team player, and on a team with so much underclass talent, it's good to have upperclassman leadership.

I think the power in TT's defense is that he is an annoying pest that worries the mess out of his assignment an gets in their head. Not really box score stuff but subtle enough be effective in the long run. Plus he is cut from the mold of Wojo, and just plan fights.

Richard Berg
11-09-2013, 08:31 PM
You guys are gonna crucify me for this....

Jabari's game reminds me of Harrison Barnes.

uh_no
11-09-2013, 08:37 PM
You guys are gonna crucify me for this....

Jabari's game reminds me of Harrison Barnes.

ways they are alike:

1) black
2) 6'8
3) play for north carolina colleges
4) were highly touted coming out of high school

i'm just saying, if you're going to make polarizing statements, at least back them up....WHY do you think their games are similar?

gocanes0506
11-09-2013, 08:44 PM
Our defensive points per possession was 1.084, unadjusted. Pomeroy's rankings are adjusted, but to put our number against Davidson in perspective, allowing 1.084 per possession would have been 302nd in the country last season in Pomeroy's rankings. That's not "pretty good," no matter how you slice it.



Free throw percentages in their most recent college season:

Quinn Cook: 87.7%
Rasheed Sulaimon: 80.2%
Andre Dawkins: 73.9%
Josh Hairston: 69.2%
Tyler Thornton: 68.0%
Rodney Hood: 65.9%
Amile Jefferson: 61.0%
Alex Murphy: 41.7%
Marshall Plumlee: 0.0%

Plus, Jabari does not have a reputation as a great free throw shooter. So unless Quinn and Rasheed take all the free throws I don't think we're going to get close to 80%. The 68.8% we shot against Davidson is probably about what we can expect for most of the season.


Both fair points. Yes 1.01 would have been 302nd last season. I don't believe it will be anywhere that bad this season. Offensive numbers are going to jump (providing teams make free throws). Well the 80 FT% may have been a little ambitious but ~69% is concerning.

uh_no
11-09-2013, 08:49 PM
Both fair points. Yes 1.01 would have been 302nd last season. I don't believe it will be anywhere that bad this season. Offensive numbers are going to jump (providing teams make free throws). Well the 80 FT% may have been a little ambitious but ~69% is concerning.


that occurred to me last night, especially considering the numbers that drury put up, that measuring defensive numbers against last years rankings is likely to be a fools errand. It will be interesting to see as the season gets going, exactly how efficiencies change with respect to the new rules

jipops
11-09-2013, 09:01 PM
You guys are gonna crucify me for this....

Jabari's game reminds me of Harrison Barnes.

Does this mean Jabari will become strictly a spot up shooter for most of the season and lose his ability to handle the ball?

Early on, it appears Jabari offers different components to his game than Barnes. I'd stick with the Carmello comparison for now.

vick
11-09-2013, 09:11 PM
Both fair points. Yes 1.01 would have been 302nd last season. I don't believe it will be anywhere that bad this season. Offensive numbers are going to jump (providing teams make free throws). Well the 80 FT% may have been a little ambitious but ~69% is concerning.

The 90% confidence interval around 22/32 is, I think, from 53% to 82%. For three pointers, 13/21 ranges from 42% to 79%. Reading a lot into one-game's shooting--whether it's that three-point shooting is going to be great or that free throws won't be--is probably unwarranted. After one game, what we have is frankly a tiny piece of evidence to shift one's opinion.

(By the way, this isn't because I think three-point shooting will be a problem--I don't, though I would bet on a lower percentage than last year if I had to.)

sagegrouse
11-09-2013, 09:13 PM
You guys are gonna crucify me for this....

Jabari's game reminds me of Harrison Barnes.

I'd say, Carmelo, but with more bulk.

sage

moonpie23
11-09-2013, 09:55 PM
You guys are gonna crucify me for this....

Jabari's game reminds me of Harrison Barnes.

dood………ugh….PLEASE NOT TO MENTION THAT NAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

devildeac
11-09-2013, 09:57 PM
Wait, we have a MBB team?

;)

kAzE
11-09-2013, 11:09 PM
Oh, Dear God. After ONE game? Check yourself, man - seriously.

I mean, you may end up being right. But if you are, it's nothing more than a lucky guess.

Dude . . read what I said . . . It was a conditional statement. I said IF Sulaimon and Cook shoot like they did vs. Davidson, we're going to win. I didn't guarantee a win at all. I said I THINK we win by double digits . . that's hardly a guarantee. I am, however, extremely confident in our team. I believe we have a very good chance to put them away without doubts as to who is currently the better team. Kansas does not impress me all that much right now. Ellis and Black are incredibly overrated. Embiid isn't ready to dominate yet. Other than Selden (who looked fairly pedestrian on Friday), the rest of their back court would not crack our 8 man rotation. In my opinion, they have a lot of room for improvement.

Troublemaker
11-09-2013, 11:19 PM
I'll be very surprised if the 9th and 10th men in any close game even approach the 13 combined minutes that Alex and Marshall had against Davidson. Their minutes almost certainly won't be higher and will likely be far lower, considering that Amile played only 11 minutes and Jabari only 23. In most contested games, Rodney, Jabari and Quinn should play between 30 and 35 minutes, Rasheed between 25 and 30, Amile between 20 and 25, and two other wing players between 15 and 25 (at the moment that's Tyler and Matt). That leaves between 10 and 20 minutes for the 8th through 12th players, which means players 9 and 10 will split at most 5 to 10 minutes.

Obviously in blowouts the guys at the bottom of the rotation will get more minutes, like Alex and Marshall did against Davidson, but even there it's unrealistic to expect "a lot more PT" for those two, unless Alex supplants Matt in the rotation or Marshall supplants Josh.



Our defensive points per possession was 1.084, unadjusted. Pomeroy's rankings are adjusted, but to put our number against Davidson in perspective, allowing 1.084 per possession would have been 302nd in the country last season in Pomeroy's rankings. That's not "pretty good," no matter how you slice it.



Free throw percentages in their most recent college season:

Quinn Cook: 87.7%
Rasheed Sulaimon: 80.2%
Andre Dawkins: 73.9%
Josh Hairston: 69.2%
Tyler Thornton: 68.0%
Rodney Hood: 65.9%
Amile Jefferson: 61.0%
Alex Murphy: 41.7%
Marshall Plumlee: 0.0%

Plus, Jabari does not have a reputation as a great free throw shooter. So unless Quinn and Rasheed take all the free throws I don't think we're going to get close to 80%. The 68.8% we shot against Davidson is probably about what we can expect for most of the season.

Put another way, the top free throw shooting team in the nation last season was (coincidentally) Davidson, a team that shot 79.5% from the line. Nobody in the whole country shot 80%. It is highly unlikely that Duke will come anywhere close to that number this season.



Tyler has a lot of good qualities. Coach K calls him our best communicator, for one thing, and he has a toughness that we need. That said, I agree with you. I think he tends to bog down the offense when he's in, and with Rodney, Matt and improved Quinn added to Rasheed in our perimeter defense, Tyler's great help D isn't as necessary as it once was (again, I agree with you that Tyler's one-on-one defense isn't as great as his reputation, but he is an excellent help defender). Personally, I'd be happier with Tyler playing 10 to 15 mpg instead of the 28 minutes he put in against Davidson.

That said, obviously Coach K doesn't agree with us, and it looks like we ought to get used to seeing Tyler play starter's minutes for the foreseeable future.

Great stuff Kedsy. I agree with you almost everywhere. I do hope Duke is capable of improving to 71-72% at the FT line by the end of the season, which would put Duke in the top 100 teams in college bball at FT shooting, going by 2013's data. I think that would be good enough.

I also have to throw my man Tyler Thornton some love. I'd say 17-23 min/gm would be good for him, a little bit higher than your 10-15 min/gm. Rasheed will definitely play more minutes than Tyler; heck, Sheed will probably start against Kansas since he appears to have recovered from illness and bad preseason form. But I want to see Tyler off the bench for 20 min/gm or so. He's a great leader; he organizes the team when he's on the court; he hits threes; and yes, he's an excellent help and off-ball defender. Ask 1st-round pick Reggie Bullock, who was shut down by Tyler's ball-denial in Duke's sweep at Chapel Hill last year. (I'm not really talking to you anymore Kedsy but to the folks who think his defense is overrated.) Give Tyler 20 minutes and I promise he'll be well worth the investment most games.

kAzE
11-09-2013, 11:27 PM
Great stuff Kedsy. I agree with you almost everywhere. I do hope Duke is capable of improving to 71-72% at the FT line by the end of the season, which would put Duke in the top 100 teams in college bball at FT shooting, going by 2013's data. I think that would be good enough.

I also have to throw my man Tyler Thornton some love. I'd say 17-23 min/gm would be good for him, a little bit higher than your 10-15 min/gm. Rasheed will definitely play more minutes than Tyler; heck, Sheed will probably start against Kansas since he appears to have recovered from illness and bad preseason form. But I want to see Tyler off the bench for 20 min/gm or so. He's a great leader; he organizes the team when he's on the court; he hits threes; and yes, he's an excellent help and off-ball defender. Ask 1st-round pick Reggie Bullock, who was shut down by Tyler's ball-denial in Duke's sweep at Chapel Hill last year. (I'm not really talking to you anymore Kedsy but to the folks who think his defense is overrated.) Give Tyler 20 minutes and I promise he'll be well worth the investment most games.

Also, I think Tyler played extra minutes in the Davidson game because of Amile's foul trouble. I think if one of our starting bigs gets in foul trouble, Coach K is just going to go small, with Hood at 4 and three guards. Seems reasonable to me.

Troublemaker
11-09-2013, 11:43 PM
Also, I think Tyler played extra minutes in the Davidson game because of Amile's foul trouble. I think if one of our starting bigs gets in foul trouble, Coach K is just going to go small, with Hood at 4 and three guards. Seems reasonable to me.

Good point, kAzE. You and others have properly identified that going small was driving the minutes distribution in the Davidson game. Tyler will not avg 28 minutes a game, but he'll sometimes get that kind of playing time if Duke spends a good portion of the game going small.

Troublemaker
11-09-2013, 11:56 PM
Interesting stuff from the presser: (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=209302845)

K On biggest defensive improvements since exhibition games:
“We didn’t pick up full court, in the two exhibition games we were kinda all over the court, and we were using energy, and not getting anything for it. So we picked up at three-quarter court and just tried to lock in on people, and that’s how we practiced all week. That doesn’t mean we’ll never press, but we can’t press them, they get it in so fast. They scored in about two seconds that one play in the first half, and almost scored again.”

I didn't pay attention to this, I was too busy watching the team score, but I think this was a key adjustment and we managed to push the ball more off solid half court D. Maybe the Drury perimeter attack was better than Davidson's, but seemed more focused by not extended to full court.


Nice catch, Billy Dat. You can imagine this is an example of why Coach K so often has his teams playing near peak even at the beginning of a season. Since about the 12 minute mark of the second half of Drury, Duke has pulled back on the full court press. (That actually caused some minor confusion for our players during Drury as one player out of habit would start to pick up full court and had to be yelled at by teammates and coaches to pull back). The full court press wasn't working, so Coach K has junked it for now. It will make a reappearance soon against some of the weak teams we play after Kansas, and it might even play a part against Kansas, who don't have the strongest point guards, and to test the ball-handling of their young players and big men. But Coach K has decided that it will not be the base defense, but a tool to be used selectively. A lesser coach might've been stubborn and taken 5 games to figure that out and to make that decision, but Coach K caught it right away.

Potato Head
11-10-2013, 12:14 AM
You guys are gonna crucify me for this....

Jabari's game reminds me of Harrison Barnes.

Barnes is more athletic, and Jabari's skills are much better than even the current version of Harrison Barnes (unfortunately, as a Warriors fan).

NSDukeFan
11-10-2013, 07:04 AM
Great stuff Kedsy. I agree with you almost everywhere. I do hope Duke is capable of improving to 71-72% at the FT line by the end of the season, which would put Duke in the top 100 teams in college bball at FT shooting, going by 2013's data. I think that would be good enough.

I also have to throw my man Tyler Thornton some love. I'd say 17-23 min/gm would be good for him, a little bit higher than your 10-15 min/gm. Rasheed will definitely play more minutes than Tyler; heck, Sheed will probably start against Kansas since he appears to have recovered from illness and bad preseason form. But I want to see Tyler off the bench for 20 min/gm or so. He's a great leader; he organizes the team when he's on the court; he hits threes; and yes, he's an excellent help and off-ball defender. Ask 1st-round pick Reggie Bullock, who was shut down by Tyler's ball-denial in Duke's sweep at Chapel Hill last year. (I'm not really talking to you anymore Kedsy but to the folks who think his defense is overrated.) Give Tyler 20 minutes and I promise he'll be well worth the investment most games.

I believe it was BD80 who said that he didn't like the chippy way (or something like that) that Tyler plays and I agree that is not a way that I would play or encourage players I coach to play. But, sometimes there are games that the team does not come out with the necessary intensity or the other team is just being more physical than Duke. In these instances, I am always very happy that Tyler plays for Duke. I also think, that at this point, he has hit enough three pointers at a high enough rate that he has to be considered a floor spreader, which is good for the offense. He may not be the most athletic player out there, but he brings some excellent qualities to the team.

Indoor66
11-10-2013, 08:11 AM
Nice catch, Billy Dat. You can imagine this is an example of why Coach K so often has his teams playing near peak even at the beginning of a season. Since about the 12 minute mark of the second half of Drury, Duke has pulled back on the full court press. (That actually caused some minor confusion for our players during Drury as one player out of habit would start to pick up full court and had to be yelled at by teammates and coaches to pull back). The full court press wasn't working, so Coach K has junked it for now. It will make a reappearance soon against some of the weak teams we play after Kansas, and it might even play a part against Kansas, who don't have the strongest point guards, and to test the ball-handling of their young players and big men. But Coach K has decided that it will not be the base defense, but a tool to be used selectively. A lesser coach might've been stubborn and taken 5 games to figure that out and to make that decision, but Coach K caught it right away.Gee, if Roy played defense he would stick with it through February 'cause they practiced it.

OldPhiKap
11-10-2013, 08:23 AM
Wait, we have a MBB team?

;)

As hard as it is for me to believe, I am more interested in beating Miami than an early season Kansas game.

It's still football season.

Having said that, the hoops team is a ton of fun to watch and will hopefully make for a joyous 2014.

Indoor66
11-10-2013, 08:28 AM
As hard as it is for me to believe, I am more interested in beating Miami than an early season Kansas game.

It's still football season.

Having said that, the hoops team is a ton of fun to watch and will hopefully make for a joyous 2014.Ain't it great to be excited about both? I haven't had that since the 60's with the Bill and Vic shows. Well, maybe one year with Ole Ball Coach and K.

slower
11-10-2013, 08:54 AM
Dude . . read what I said . . . It was a conditional statement. I said IF Sulaimon and Cook shoot like they did vs. Davidson, we're going to win. I didn't guarantee a win at all. I said I THINK we win by double digits . . that's hardly a guarantee. I am, however, extremely confident in our team. I believe we have a very good chance to put them away without doubts as to who is currently the better team. Kansas does not impress me all that much right now. Ellis and Black are incredibly overrated. Embiid isn't ready to dominate yet. Other than Selden (who looked fairly pedestrian on Friday), the rest of their back court would not crack our 8 man rotation. In my opinion, they have a lot of room for improvement.

Dude,

I DID read what you wrote - "After tonight, and then looking in at Kansas' performance against Louisiana Monroe (Just a 17 point win over a team that went 3-17 in the Sun Belt last year), I can confidently expect us to come out with a win in Chicago." - and there's nothing conditional about that statement. Yes, I realize that your second paragraph WAS conditional.

And you MAY be right. I desperately hope that you ARE correct. I just think a one-game sample size is inconclusive. And those shooting percentages are, of course, absolutely unsustainable.

We all loved what we saw against Davidson. It was a beautiful thing, for the most part. I choose to remain cautiously optimistic, but I hope to remove the "cautiously" part sooner, rather than later.

Bygones.

sagegrouse
11-10-2013, 10:02 AM
I believe it was BD80 who said that he didn't like the chippy way (or something like that) that Tyler plays and I agree that is not a way that I would play or encourage players I coach to play. But, sometimes there are games that the team does not come out with the necessary intensity or the other team is just being more physical than Duke. In these instances, I am always very happy that Tyler plays for Duke. I also think, that at this point, he has hit enough three pointers at a high enough rate that he has to be considered a floor spreader, which is good for the offense. He may not be the most athletic player out there, but he brings some excellent qualities to the team.

To me, the essence of Tyler Thornton was crystallized his freshman year when Duke lost badly at St. John's, 93-78. I mean, we went (shhh) quietly. Except for Tyler. When he entered the game, while Duke was trailing badly, and incurred five fouls in nine minutes. He also started a fight. Did K approve of such aggressive behavior? Well, in the next game, at Maryland, Thornton was in the starting lineup.

sagegrouse

captmojo
11-10-2013, 11:00 AM
I think Tyler did something on Maui. What was it? Mmmmm....
Oh yeah! I remember.
Kansas.

I like him. I like his game. Getting out front in transition Friday night. A great pass from Hood he was ready for and Davidson wasn't. See the replay of the lay-up, foul and his concentration of the ball going through, all the way to laying on his back on the end line. This should have made game highlights on all sports reports that came later.

Back off.

Clay Feet POF
11-10-2013, 12:14 PM
I believe it was BD80 who said that he didn't like the chippy way (or something like that) that Tyler plays and I agree that is not a way that I would play or encourage players I coach to play. But, sometimes there are games that the team does not come out with the necessary intensity or the other team is just being more physical than Duke. In these instances, I am always very happy that Tyler plays for Duke. I also think, that at this point, he has hit enough three pointers at a high enough rate that he has to be considered a floor spreader, which is good for the offense. He may not be the most athletic player out there, but he brings some excellent qualities to the team.


TT is a Tugboat among cruisers,and Tugboats are always necessary!!

MCFinARL
11-10-2013, 12:19 PM
As hard as it is for me to believe, I am more interested in beating Miami than an early season Kansas game.

It's still football season.

Having said that, the hoops team is a ton of fun to watch and will hopefully make for a joyous 2014.

Oooh, careful--that way madness lies.

Kedsy
11-10-2013, 01:40 PM
I think Tyler did something on Maui. What was it? Mmmmm....
Oh yeah! I remember.
Kansas.

I like him. I like his game. Getting out front in transition Friday night. A great pass from Hood he was ready for and Davidson wasn't. See the replay of the lay-up, foul and his concentration of the ball going through, all the way to laying on his back on the end line. This should have made game highlights on all sports reports that came later.

Back off.

Back off? Really? Nobody is saying Tyler is a bad guy or a bad player. We've all seen Tyler make some great plays. I believe we've also seen him make plays that weren't so great.

Also, all twelve of our recruited scholarship players have made great plays at some point in their careers. A lot of them made great plays against Davidson. How does pointing out a couple of Tyler's successes advance the argument of how much he should play ahead of our other worthy players?

As I said earlier in this thread, Coach K obviously thinks Tyler should play a lot. Therefore we can expect Tyler to play a lot. It still should be perfectly legitimate for us fans to discuss how we feel about it.

wilson
11-10-2013, 03:01 PM
As hard as it is for me to believe, I am more interested in beating Miami than an early season Kansas game.

It's still football season.

Having said that, the hoops team is a ton of fun to watch and will hopefully make for a joyous 2014.Totally agreed. I'm astounded at the degree to which I'm still gravitating toward the college football age over the college basketball page on my usual circuit of sports websites.

Gthoma2a
11-10-2013, 03:17 PM
Totally agreed. I'm astounded at the degree to which I'm still gravitating toward the college football age over the college basketball page on my usual circuit of sports websites.

This is crazy to me. I hope I'm wrong, but I think we only have 2-3 more wins this season (bowl included). Given, it is a high point in the program, but the competition is about to jump up with Miami. If we get FSU, by beating Miami, that will take a miracle to come away with a victory (they are my hope for beating Alabama for the title; I really get pissed off when I hear a southern accent saying "roll tide", at this point).

Henderson
11-10-2013, 03:19 PM
Totally agreed. I'm astounded at the degree to which I'm still gravitating toward the college football age over the college basketball page on my usual circuit of sports websites.

OMG, we really have become a football school.

I love this football team, but when I bleed Duke blue, it's on the hardwood.

Beat Kansas. Then beat Miami. In that order, both chronologically and otherwise.

jimsumner
11-10-2013, 03:21 PM
OMG, we really have become a football school.

I love this football team, but when I bleed Duke blue, it's on the hardwood.

Beat Kansas. Then beat Miami. In that order, both chronologically and otherwise.

It's not like they are mutually exclusive.

But a Duke football win over Miami in November would have greater significance, IMO, than a Duke basketball victory over Kansas in November.

Now a Duke basketball victory over Kansas in April? Different story.

Gthoma2a
11-10-2013, 03:22 PM
OMG, we really have become a football school.

I love this football team, but when I bleed Duke blue, it's on the hardwood.

Beat Kansas. Then beat Miami. In that order, both chronologically and otherwise.

Exactly. We have an awesome football coach, but we have the greatest coach of all time coaching our basketball team, and I'm as excited as ever to see what he can do with this incredibly talented team.

With that said, Duke is an all around University. Women's basketball, men's basketball, football, etc. With all of our gains, it is getting to where UNC will be relegated to being a baseball/soccer school (school optional).

BD80
11-10-2013, 03:28 PM
... It still should be perfectly legitimate for us fans to discuss how we feel about it.

Now you're accusing me of having feelings?

Are the mods going to allow this type of conduct?

_Gary
11-10-2013, 04:52 PM
Certainly a great win. And there's so much to be happy for that I feel bad for even bringing this up, but after only seeing a couple of posts (none of which were even addressed as far as I could tell) is there no one that's curious about Andre's situation? Or perhaps I'm out of the loop and everyone else knows something I don't. Did K get asked about it in the post-game presser? If this is a taboo subject or something just let me know (serious comment - not trying to be a jerk).

BD80
11-10-2013, 05:35 PM
Certainly a great win. And there's so much to be happy for that I feel bad for even bringing this up, but after only seeing a couple of posts (none of which were even addressed as far as I could tell) is there no one that's curious about Andre's situation? Or perhaps I'm out of the loop and everyone else knows something I don't. Did K get asked about it in the post-game presser? If this is a taboo subject or something just let me know (serious comment - not trying to be a jerk).

His situation is that he is a talented basketball player that has been out of the game for 12 - 15 months, and is trying to work his way back into form and into a rotation that has five other very talented perimeter players (putting Parker as one of 6 in the front court)

Skitzle
11-10-2013, 06:28 PM
Just watched the game.

Wow! That was fun.

2 Side Notes:
1) The squad on the floor with 3:50 seconds left could probably beat our 2006-2007 starters.
2) Andre... :(

We bring him up this often because... WE WANT HIM TO SUCCEED.

Really love this kid, and having him not PLAY says he's not getting it done in practice.
He's behind Jones on the Depth chart. Says great things about Jones but we really had high expectations for Dawkins when he said he was coming back.

I would hate to see him ride the pine all year, only because it means that he had a disappointing season and didn't meet his potential. Perhaps our expectations are to high? I hope that he's in good spirits and is working his ... off.

MCFinARL
11-10-2013, 09:20 PM
Just watched the game.

Wow! That was fun.

2 Side Notes:
1) The squad on the floor with 3:50 seconds left could probably beat our 2006-2007 starters.
2) Andre... :(

We bring him up this often because... WE WANT HIM TO SUCCEED.

Really love this kid, and having him not PLAY says he's not getting it done in practice.
He's behind Jones on the Depth chart. Says great things about Jones but we really had high expectations for Dawkins when he said he was coming back.

I would hate to see him ride the pine all year, only because it means that he had a disappointing season and didn't meet his potential. Perhaps our expectations are to high? I hope that he's in good spirits and is working his ... off.

I am also a great fan of Andre's; in the end, though, our expectations for Andre aren't nearly as important as Andre's expectations for Andre, and we don't know what those are. On Saturday, when the camera caught him on the bench and during the brief period he was in the game, he looked engaged, animated, and happy. As long as that is the case, I will be happy for him whether or not I see as much of him on the court as i would like.

Ultrarunner
11-11-2013, 12:40 AM
Just watched the game.


Really love this kid, and having him not PLAY says he's not getting it done in practice.
He's behind Jones on the Depth chart. Says great things about Jones but we really had high expectations for Dawkins when he said he was coming back.

I would hate to see him ride the pine all year, only because it means that he had a disappointing season and didn't meet his potential. Perhaps our expectations are to high? I hope that he's in good spirits and is working his ... off.

Or maybe he has the same flu that clobbered Sulaimon? Any chance we could wait at least a half dozen games before beginning post mortems on Andre? Or, for that matter, any of the other players.

Richard Berg
11-11-2013, 01:06 AM
ways they are alike:

1) black
2) 6'8
3) play for north carolina colleges
4) were highly touted coming out of high school

i'm just saying, if you're going to make polarizing statements, at least back them up....WHY do you think their games are similar?
Lean, lanky, springy tweeners with a captivating grin, who can make plays from all over the court. Have the physical tools to be a great defender someday, but need a couple years of solid coaching for things to gel at that end. (Advantage to JP!) Improving fast, capable of being the #2 option on an upper-division NBA team someday.

Keep in mind I'm a Spurs + Duke fan. I didn't watch the HS games where Jabari was supposedly put on a lower tier of athleticism; my first impression saw him leap for an oop like Grant Hill. I don't watch UNC, so I have no memory of Barnes struggling thru his first campaign -- but I do remember this victory (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/ncaa/men/gameflash/2011/03/05/68039_boxscore.html) over a stacked 2011 squad, and this performance (http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400464459) against a champion-caliber San Antonio team. He's not at all a "spot-up shooter" as another poster claimed...in the infamous Austin Rivers game, for instance, the narrative for 39 minutes was all about UNC dominating the paint. Against the Spurs he played with the craftiness and high energy you'd expect from an NBA greenhorn trying to earn a starting spot.

Maybe HB plays like sophomore Redick when I'm not watching, but if so that's a story about Roy's / Jackson's incompetence, not HB's talents. The guy can clearly hurt you in a variety of ways. He doesn't have elite floor vision, granted...but then again my sample size for Jabari is ~2 nifty passes, ever. By February I will have doubtlessly refined my player models :)

----

In terms of Jabari's overall potential / ceiling, I gotta bring up another hated UNC foe: he strikes me more as a young James Worthy than a Pippen or a Melo. I'd even point to Luol ahead of the latter two, if we must stick to Duke comps.

Skitzle
11-11-2013, 01:51 AM
Or maybe he has the same flu that clobbered Sulaimon? Any chance we could wait at least a half dozen games before beginning post mortems on Andre? Or, for that matter, any of the other players.

Of course only time will tell, but after 3 games, he's clearly not where we(he) want(s) him to be. Hopefully something changes.

Henderson
11-11-2013, 09:45 AM
As K said after the Davidson game, he doesn't have a dog house (even for his dog). But he has a lot of talent on this team, and some players are playing better than others right now. I don't think the lack of PT is a reflection on Andre, but rather a byproduct of the embarrassment of riches.

Would it be great if Dre were playing so well that it meant lack of PT for someone else? Well, sure, because it would point to a net marginal improvement to the overall high level of play. But we wouldn't want Andre to get minutes just because someone else is struggling. And let's face it: Matt Jones is showing some serious chops as a freshman, Sheed is back to playing really well as a sophomore, and those are good things for this team.

There is no primogeniture on a K team. Seniors too must earn their places. It's a great message to convey. And I'll bet Andre gets it and is fine with it.

uh_no
11-11-2013, 09:51 AM
As K said after the Davidson game, he doesn't have a dog house (even for his dog). But he has a lot of talent on this team, and some players are playing better than others right now.

Despite K's comments, it's really just mincing words. he calls it "not seeing as much playing time because he's not playing as well and we need to work with him so he can get better," the rest of the world calls it "the doghouse"

I understand the want to avoid the connotation that "doghouse" brings, but that doesn't change the fact that it's fundamentally the same thing.

Henderson
11-11-2013, 10:05 AM
Despite K's comments, it's really just mincing words. he calls it "not seeing as much playing time because he's not playing as well and we need to work with him so he can get better," the rest of the world calls it "the doghouse"

I understand the want to avoid the connotation that "doghouse" brings, but that doesn't change the fact that it's fundamentally the same thing.

I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. Being benched because the coach is po'd at a player = doghouse. Limited minutes because others are playing better, combined with a commitment to helping a player get up to that higher level, is just different. If the rest of the world can't discern the distinction, that's up to them.

roywhite
11-11-2013, 10:11 AM
Despite K's comments, it's really just mincing words. he calls it "not seeing as much playing time because he's not playing as well and we need to work with him so he can get better," the rest of the world calls it "the doghouse"

I understand the want to avoid the connotation that "doghouse" brings, but that doesn't change the fact that it's fundamentally the same thing.

Realizing that this board can get bogged down in semantics occasionally:p, I'm hesitant to venture forth, but I take "doghouse" to mean more than not performing as well as another player; the connotation is that the coach is disappointed in the player, even perturbed with his behavior or effort, that the player is not on the same page as others on the team, not communicating well with the staff, etc.

freshmanjs
11-11-2013, 10:13 AM
Realizing that this board can get bogged down in semantics occasionally:p, I'm hesitant to venture forth, but I take "doghouse" to mean more than not performing as well as another player; the connotation is that the coach is disappointed in the player, even perturbed with his behavior or effort, that the player is not on the same page as others on the team, not communicating well with the staff, etc.

Coach K says Andre is not in the doghouse, and I'll take him at his word.

My take is that Andre's game is just not as well-rounded as Matt Jones, and that Matt gives the team more, at least as judged now. Andre will get his chances and could well be a major contributor, or perhaps better to say he can be an important contributor, in that he can turn a game around with a hot shooting stretch. Wish him well.

coach k's doghouse comments were specifically about rasheed, not andre. although he also said that he doesn't have a doghouse, so by implication that would also address andre.

roywhite
11-11-2013, 10:15 AM
coach k's doghouse comments were specifically about rasheed, not andre. although he also said that he doesn't have a doghouse, so by implication that would also address andre.

Thanks for that correction; my bad.

I do take K at his word about it not being a "doghouse" situation.

sagegrouse
11-11-2013, 10:54 AM
Realizing that this board can get bogged down in semantics occasionally:p, I'm hesitant to venture forth, but I take "doghouse" to mean more than not performing as well as another player; the connotation is that the coach is disappointed in the player, even perturbed with his behavior or effort, that the player is not on the same page as others on the team, not communicating well with the staff, etc.

I'm with you, Roy.

Doghouse is the outcome of problems in academics, attitude, effort, teamwork, locker room stuff, and obstinacy (not listening to the coaches). There are no evident examples from recent teams, although others with more insight may disagree. In fact, the only recent player I can think of who lost time as an upperclassman is Greg Paulus, and he had a terrific attitude, even after being benched.

sagegrouse

Skitzle
11-11-2013, 02:22 PM
Would it be great if Dre were playing so well that it meant lack of PT for someone else? Well, sure, because it would point to a net marginal improvement to the overall high level of play. But we wouldn't want Andre to get minutes just because someone else is struggling. And let's face it: Matt Jones is showing some serious chops as a freshman, Sheed is back to playing really well as a sophomore, and those are good things for this team.


This is close to how I feel. All I'm saying is that I wish Andre DESERVED the playing time over Matt Jones.

I'm not saying play the senior because he's a senior.
I'm not saying play him because I like him.

I'm saying I WISH he was playing because that would mean that he is playing well, he improved in his year off and it was worth it for him to come back to Duke. Like someone said, he didnt look UNHAPPY while on the bench, so at least there is that, but I want him to be successful and have a positive impact on this team for his own sake (if that is what he wants...)

Potato Head
11-11-2013, 05:29 PM
Keep in mind I'm a Spurs + Duke fan.

As a Warriors fan, I'll say that from what I've seen so far Jabari's offensive game is currently better than where Barnes is at right now, let alone compared to Barnes in his freshman year. I'd pip Barnes as the better athlete and defender, but he's still a streaky scorer and still pretty mistake-prone. Jabari's got almost a full offensive arsenal already.

_Gary
11-11-2013, 11:22 PM
This is close to how I feel. All I'm saying is that I wish Andre DESERVED the playing time over Matt Jones.

I'm not saying play the senior because he's a senior.
I'm not saying play him because I like him.

I'm saying I WISH he was playing because that would mean that he is playing well, he improved in his year off and it was worth it for him to come back to Duke. Like someone said, he didnt look UNHAPPY while on the bench, so at least there is that, but I want him to be successful and have a positive impact on this team for his own sake (if that is what he wants...)

I'd say you summed up the way I feel too. I'd just like to see Andre, a fifth year senior, doing something more (in game) than sitting on the bench. But if the reality is he's really that low on the depth chart (and I have no reason to think anything else is in play) then just take my comments as those of someone who'd like to see a senior that has endured an awful lot finish with a bang and have a wonderful last year. It's just my wish as one human being pulling for another. Nothing more, nothing less.

gep
11-12-2013, 12:19 AM
I've been thinking about this for awhile. We, as fans, want to see Andre succeed "in games"... but maybe that's not his focus. I recall his comment that he chose Duke at the beginning, and wants to end with Duke, especially after all that Duke did for him, and that he obviously made the right choice. I would think that he had a discussion (or a few) with Coach K and the staff for his realistic prospects for this year. As others have noted, Andre appears to be "content" with his position on the bench, cheering on his team. Maybe one of his focus is being "part of the team" again... one last time.:cool: So maybe our (us fans) definition of "successful senior season" is not the same as Andre's...

Skitzle
11-12-2013, 03:18 AM
So maybe our (us fans) definition of "successful senior season" is not the same as Andre's...

Very much much a possibility.

kAzE
11-12-2013, 03:33 AM
Realizing that this board can get bogged down in semantics occasionally:p, I'm hesitant to venture forth, but I take "doghouse" to mean more than not performing as well as another player; the connotation is that the coach is disappointed in the player, even perturbed with his behavior or effort, that the player is not on the same page as others on the team, not communicating well with the staff, etc.

Alright, look, if you take the LITERAL meaning of the phrase "He's in the doghouse," it's like, if you have made your wife so mad at you that she's not even willing to let you sleep on the couch or even stay in the house, and thus, your only option is "the doghouse." It's not that your relationship with your wife is perfectly fine, and she just thinks someone else is performing better than you. (Though in this example, that would be WAY WORSE, as marriage in most countries these days is not considered a team sport) No, she's mad as hell at you. That's why you're in the doghouse.

So in essence, it DOES imply that the player needs to be on the coach's list if you get my meaning. In this case, Coach K basically made it apparent that Dawkins is not in such a situation. He just feels that other players, such as Sulaimon, Cook, Thornton, and Jones are playing better right now, and thus, they are getting the minutes in the back court.

Coach K has always played the guys who he feels give the team the best chance to win. Right now, he doesn't feel that Dawkins fits in to that description. He probably has no idea what type rotation he's going to stick with going forward, it's all dependent upon what the guys show him in practice. That's how it should be, in my opinion. If Dawkins proves that he deserves to play minutes ahead of some of those other guys, then he will.

oldnavy
11-12-2013, 06:29 AM
Alright, look, if you take the LITERAL meaning of the phrase "He's in the doghouse," it's like, if you have made your wife so mad at you that she's not even willing to let you sleep on the couch or even stay in the house, and thus, your only option is "the doghouse." It's not that your relationship with your wife is perfectly fine, and she just thinks someone else is performing better than you. (Though in this example, that would be WAY WORSE, as marriage in most countries these days is not considered a team sport) No, she's mad as hell at you. That's why you're in the doghouse.

So in essence, it DOES imply that the player needs to be on the coach's list if you get my meaning. In this case, Coach K basically made it apparent that Dawkins is not in such a situation. He just feels that other players, such as Sulaimon, Cook, Thornton, and Jones are playing better right now, and thus, they are getting the minutes in the back court.

Coach K has always played the guys who he feels give the team the best chance to win. Right now, he doesn't feel that Dawkins fits in to that description. He probably has no idea what type rotation he's going to stick with going forward, it's all dependent upon what the guys show him in practice. That's how it should be, in my opinion. If Dawkins proves that he deserves to play minutes ahead of some of those other guys, then he will.

Perfect reference to the wife issue. Anyone who is married knows what the term "doghouse" means. Hank Williams Sr. wrote a very famous song about it about 100 years ago. "Came home last night about a half past ten, that baby of mine, she wouldn't let me in so move it on over...." Doghouse = hacking the coach off; not getting PT could mean dog house, but most likely means you are second string.

MCFinARL
11-12-2013, 08:35 AM
Coach K has always played the guys who he feels give the team the best chance to win. Right now, he doesn't feel that Dawkins fits in to that description. He probably has no idea what type rotation he's going to stick with going forward, it's all dependent upon what the guys show him in practice. That's how it should be, in my opinion. If Dawkins proves that he deserves to play minutes ahead of some of those other guys, then he will.

Just pointing out again (someone noted this earlier) that the "doghouse" discussion with Coach K related to Rasheed Sulaimon, not Andre Dawkins. It's true, though, that nothing anyone has said or heard suggests that Andre is in the doghouse any more than Rasheed.

dukepsy1963
11-12-2013, 09:07 AM
I saw the game in person.... all I can say is, "oh my!"

We are off and running!:)

Troublemaker
11-12-2013, 09:59 AM
I'd say you summed up the way I feel too. I'd just like to see Andre, a fifth year senior, doing something more (in game) than sitting on the bench. But if the reality is he's really that low on the depth chart (and I have no reason to think anything else is in play) then just take my comments as those of someone who'd like to see a senior that has endured an awful lot finish with a bang and have a wonderful last year. It's just my wish as one human being pulling for another. Nothing more, nothing less.

Agreed. One thing I'd add to the Andre discussion is the possible role of the new rule changes/emphases. Quinn said after the Davidson game that the first time Duke played with live refs this season was the Blue-White game, and the team is still adjusting to how things are called. I don't think it's coincidental that from the Blue-White game on, Andre's role has been reduced. I think the officials are calling things a bit tighter than even our coaching staff could anticipate, and that puts a premium on slashers and therefore lowers Andre's relative value, especially since Sheed and it seems to me Matt are very good slashers and are better options than Andre to defend against slashers as well. That could be why Andre started out as a starter or 6th man but is now seemingly out of the rotation.

flyingdutchdevil
11-12-2013, 10:41 AM
Agreed. One thing I'd add to the Andre discussion is the possible role of the new rule changes/emphases. Quinn said after the Davidson game that the first time Duke played with live refs this season was the Blue-White game, and the team is still adjusting to how things are called. I don't think it's coincidental that from the Blue-White game on, Andre's role has been reduced. I think the officials are calling things a bit tighter than even our coaching staff could anticipate, and that puts a premium on slashers and therefore lowers Andre's relative value, especially since Sheed and it seems to me Matt are very good slashers and are better options than Andre to defend against slashers as well. That could be why Andre started out as a starter or 6th man but is now seemingly out of the rotation.

I really don't think that officials are the main reason why Andre hasn't played very much. Is it possible that, compared to the rest of the talent on the team, Andre just isn't as good? That the minutes go to the players who have the most combined talent on O and D? That Tyler, Rasheed, and Matt provide more value?

We all want Andre to succeed, but providing excuses rather than facing the current facts isn't the way to go about it. I feel bad for the kid, but may be this is what he wants. I'm sure he had multiple talks with parents, mentors, Coach K, assistant coaches, etc. and, with that advice in hand, he chose to go back to Duke when he could have transferred to nearly any D1 school and play many more minutes. To Andre, maybe there is more to basketball than playing a lot of minutes. Maybe he missed his teammates, maybe he wanted life coaching from the staff, and maybe he wanted something to further help with the grief.

Regardless of what happens, I think Andre will be fine. IMO, I don't think he's gonna play much this year, but that has more to do with our packed backcourt than Andre.

Troublemaker
11-12-2013, 10:56 AM
I really don't think that officials are the main reason why Andre hasn't played very much. Is it possible that, compared to the rest of the talent on the team, Andre just isn't as good? That the minutes go to the players who have the most combined talent on O and D? That Tyler, Rasheed, and Matt provide more value?

We all want Andre to succeed, but providing excuses rather than facing the current facts isn't the way to go about it.

Yes, all that is possible. I'm guess I'm wondering if it was made even more possible by the current rules changes/emphases. Because Andre had run with the starters in both the Open Practice and the Blue-White game, and the word from insiders (I use a pay site) was that Andre had been starting in the early practices and playing really well. My guess is he was playing above his mean level at first, and then his quality dropped some, and the current conditions playing with new rule changes/emphases seem to emphasize his weaknesses. Hence the slide from co-starter to non-rotation.

I don't see it as excuse-making. I see it as one possible theory as to how events played out for Andre, and it may very well be right. Or wrong.

FerryFor50
11-12-2013, 10:59 AM
Yes, all that is possible. I'm guess I'm wondering if it was made even more possible by the current rules changes/emphases. Because Andre had run with the starters in both the Open Practice and the Blue-White game, and the word from insiders (I use a pay site) was that Andre had been starting in the early practices and playing really well. My guess is he was playing above his mean level at first, and then his quality dropped some, and the current conditions playing with new rule changes/emphases seem to emphasize his weaknesses. Hence the slide from co-starter to non-rotation.

I don't see it as excuse-making. I see it as one possible theory as to how events played out for Andre, and it may very well be right. Or wrong.

Could also be that his conditioning isn't up to snuff yet. Or that K wants Andre to work on some things first.

I think it's way too early to tell what Andre's role will be this season. If he's still at the end of the bench by the start of the ACC schedule, then I think we'll have a better idea.

JNort
11-12-2013, 06:18 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread yet but I feel from what I have read is that our defense is taking to much heat. Let me give my .02 and why I say don't worry.

1. The new rules this year allow for higher scoring which was noticeable in every game not just ours.

2. We played with many different lineups and players and not necessarily our best lineups and players. Against tougher teams K will most likely use a shorter rotation.

3. You can't defend the free throw line. They shot 80% and got 22 points as a result.