Respect for Quinn

[mattman91]

Cook Named to 2014 Cousy Award Watch List (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209289435&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

I know here at DBR we think highly of this young man's talent, but it is about time Quinn started getting some national recognition. He had a 2.4-1 assist to turnover ratio last season and flew way under the radar in my opinion. Early reports are saying has significantly improved his "D" over the off-season, and I think he should really thrive with this years offense. Should be a fun player to keep an eye out for this season.

Other than Marcus Smart, I don't know of any other point that is on another talent level, and has proven himself at the college level.

Other natable names on the list are Marcus Paige, UNC (lol), Aaron Craft, Ohio State (LOL), Tyler Ennis, Syracuse, and Andrew Harrison, Kentucky.

[Edouble]

Cook Named to 2014 Cousy Award Watch List (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209289435&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

I know here at DBR we think highly of this young man's talent, but it is about time Quinn started getting some national recognition. He had a 2.4-1 assist to turnover ratio last season and flew way under the radar in my opinion. Early reports are saying has significantly improved his "D" over the off-season, and I think he should really thrive with this years offense. Should be a fun player to keep an eye out for this season.

Other than Marcus Smart, I don't know of any other point that is on another talent level, and has proven himself at the college level.

Other natable names on the list are Marcus Paige, UNC (lol), Aaron Craft, Ohio State (LOL), Tyler Ennis, Syracuse, and Andrew Harrison, Kentucky.

Aaron Craft is awesome.

Go Quinn!!!

[Duvall]

Aaron Craft is awesome.

Is he? Craft is a pretty good defender, but he can't shoot a lick from 2 or 3.

[mr. synellinden]

Is he? Craft is a pretty good defender, but he can't shoot a lick from 2 or 3.

Iowa St. disagrees (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TCoDBmgSqQ).

[Duvall]

Iowa St. disagrees (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TCoDBmgSqQ).

Wichita State wouldn't. (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330890194)

The stats say what the stats say, and they say that Craft can't shoot. (http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?p1=tyler-thornton&p2=aaron-craft&remove=tyler-thornton)

[Kedsy]

Is he? Craft is a pretty good defender, but he can't shoot a lick from 2 or 3.

Comparing eFG% and True Shooting Pct:

eFG%
------
Quinn Cook:
freshman: 46.5%; sophomore: 49.1%

Aaron Craft:
freshman: 53.5%; sophomore: 55.0%; junior: 46.1%

True Shooting Pct
-----------------
Quinn Cook:
freshman: 52.4%; sophomore: 52.9%

Aaron Craft:
freshman: 57.8%; sophomore: 59.2%; junior: 51.2%


Looking at these stats, it's hard to say that Quinn is a better shooter than Craft, even though he was slightly better last season.

[mattman91]

Aaron Craft is awesome.

Go Quinn!!!

In my opinion, he is overrated. I just hate how the media drools all over him.

[Duvall]

Looking at these stats, it's hard to say that Quinn is a better shooter than Craft, even though he was slightly better last season.

Cook could improve his shooting dramatically by taking far fewer 2-pt jumpers, at which he was dreadful last year. I'm not sure what Craft could do, since layups have at times proven challenging for him.

[Kedsy]

Cook could improve his shooting dramatically by taking far fewer 2-pt jumpers, at which he was dreadful last year. I'm not sure what Craft could do, since layups have at times proven challenging for him.

2-point FG% (2012-13)
-------------------
Seth Curry: 49.2%
Ryan Kelly: 47.3%
Aaron Craft: 46.6%
Rasheed Sulaimon: 46.1%
Josh Hairston: 45.6%
Tyler Thornton: 45.5%
Quinn Cook: 43.0%

I'm not saying Craft is a great shooter, but he's not nearly as bad as you're setting him up to be.

[Duvall]

2-point FG% (2012-13)
-------------------
Seth Curry: 49.2%
Ryan Kelly: 47.3%
Aaron Craft: 46.6%
Rasheed Sulaimon: 46.1%
Josh Hairston: 45.6%
Tyler Thornton: 45.5%
Quinn Cook: 43.0%

I'm not saying Craft is a great shooter, but he's not nearly as bad as you're setting him up to be.

Except that those other players are decent-to-great from 3. You have to be able to shoot from *somewhere.*

I will acknowledge that Craft is a better shooter than Josh Hairston. So there's that.

[vick]

I like Cook, but I think Craft was the better player last year. Even if you just look at basic statistics, they are very close:

Craft: 10.0 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1.9 TOV/G
Cook: 11.7 PPG, 3.8 RPG, 5.3 APG, 2.2 TOV/G

Cook comes out a little bit better there, but barely. Their efficiency number are also pretty similar, with Cook 109.1 ORTG, Craft 106.5 with similar usage--the fact that Craft was far more prolific at getting to the line helps him. So I think Cook could legitimately be called the better player on offense last year, but only by a little bit. But given that Craft was the better defensive player by a huge margin, I think most neutral observers would have called Craft the better player, and most player-rating systems I'm aware of that try to incorporate defense (ASPM, Value-Add, Win Shares, etc.) agree--heck even PER favored Craft, if only barely. Might Cook be better than Craft this year? Certainly. Is it laughable to put Craft above Cook? I think definitely not.

[FerryFor50]

In my opinion, he is overrated. I just hate how the media drools all over him.

Craft is *exactly* the type of player that, if wearing a Duke uniform, would be universally hated.

[mattman91]

Craft is *exactly* the type of player that, if wearing a Duke uniform, would be universally hated.

I actually agree...he fits the discription. I guess now it is easy to see why so many people hate us ;)

As for Quinn...I REALLY think he is gonna have a superb year. We will play at a fast tempo, and have the players that can showcase his abilities as a point guard.

[ChillinDuke]

Comparing eFG% and True Shooting Pct:

eFG%
------
Quinn Cook:
freshman: 46.5%; sophomore: 49.1%

Aaron Craft:
freshman: 53.5%; sophomore: 55.0%; junior: 46.1%

True Shooting Pct
-----------------
Quinn Cook:
freshman: 52.4%; sophomore: 52.9%

Aaron Craft:
freshman: 57.8%; sophomore: 59.2%; junior: 51.2%


Looking at these stats, it's hard to say that Quinn is a better shooter than Craft, even though he was slightly better last season.

I admit I don't know what these advanced stats mean completely. Feel free to explain (again). Actually, don't explain - it's my fault that I'm lazy.

But I don't like to just ignore "normal" stats, personally - and those look a bit different:

Cook vs Craft:

Career (Cook 2 years; Craft 3 years)

FGs: 198/479 (41.3%) vs 327/719 (45.5%)
3pt: 69/196 (35.2%) vs 76/223 (34.1%)
FTs: 102/122 (83.6%) vs 242/329 (73.6%)

Cook is slightly better at the 3 and much better at FTs. Craft has a better overall FG% (does he get a lot of layups?). And this is before Cook has played his junior season, which by reasonable expectation, would improve these numbers. Listen, Craft is a good overall player - no taking that away from him. But I think Quinn Cook will be regarded as the better shooter when their respective college careers are over. And I don't think it will be overly close.

- Chillin

[FerryFor50]

I admit I don't know what these advanced stats mean completely. Feel free to explain (again). Actually, don't explain - it's my fault that I'm lazy.

But I don't like to just ignore "normal" stats, personally - and those look a bit different:

Cook vs Craft:

Career (Cook 2 years; Craft 3 years)

FGs: 198/479 (41.3%) vs 327/719 (45.5%)
3pt: 69/196 (35.2%) vs 76/223 (34.1%)
FTs: 102/122 (83.6%) vs 242/329 (73.6%)

Cook is slightly better at the 3 and much better at FTs. Craft has a better overall FG% (does he get a lot of layups?). And this is before Cook has played his junior season, which by reasonable expectation, would improve these numbers. Listen, Craft is a good overall player - no taking that away from him. But I think Quinn Cook will be regarded as the better shooter when their respective college careers are over. And I don't think it will be overly close.

- Chillin

eFG% and true shooting % simply try to break down normal FG% numbers, since not all shots are created equal.

For example, if a players shoots 300 three pointers (harder than a layup) and only 20 layups, their eFG% would be higher than a player that shot 300 layups and 20 three pointers, even if the FG% were identical.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html

eFG%
Effective Field Goal Percentage; the formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).

TS%
True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * TSA). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

[ChillinDuke]

eFG% and true shooting % simply try to break down normal FG% numbers, since not all shots are created equal.

For example, if a players shoots 300 three pointers (harder than a layup) and only 20 layups, their eFG% would be higher than a player that shot 300 layups and 20 three pointers, even if the FG% were identical.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/about/glossary.html

eFG%
Effective Field Goal Percentage; the formula is (FG + 0.5 * 3P) / FGA. This statistic adjusts for the fact that a 3-point field goal is worth one more point than a 2-point field goal. For example, suppose Player A goes 4 for 10 with 2 threes, while Player B goes 5 for 10 with 0 threes. Each player would have 10 points from field goals, and thus would have the same effective field goal percentage (50%).

TS%
True Shooting Percentage; the formula is PTS / (2 * TSA). True shooting percentage is a measure of shooting efficiency that takes into account field goals, 3-point field goals, and free throws.

Appreciate you breaking that down for me. I'll try (again) to remember this going forward.

So as I look at this, does this mean that Craft gets more layups? How else would his TS% be higher than cook while being worse at both three pointers and free throws? (Note: I guess he was actually worse last year at TS%.)

To me, the strongest piece of evidence is Sophomore Quinn Cook was considerably better at both three pointers and free throws than Junior Aaron Craft. Hence, a better shooter. Not a better scorer (although I'd probably still argue Quinn here), not a better player (I would probably argue Junior Craft > Sophomore Cook here).

If you want to talk about who the better player is - that becomes a real tough debate, I reckon. But this one, to me, is not overly complicated.

- Chillin

[FerryFor50]

Appreciate you breaking that down for me. I'll try (again) to remember this going forward.

So as I look at this, does this mean that Craft gets more layups? How else would his TS% be higher than cook while being worse at both three pointers and free throws? (Note: I guess he was actually worse last year at TS%.)

To me, the strongest piece of evidence is Sophomore Quinn Cook was considerably better at both three pointers and free throws than Junior Aaron Craft. Hence, a better shooter. Not a better scorer (although I'd probably still argue Quinn here), not a better player (I would probably argue Junior Craft > Sophomore Cook here).

If you want to talk about who the better player is - that becomes a real tough debate, I reckon. But this one, to me, is not overly complicated.

- Chillin

What the stats don't really take into account are uncontested shots. Did Aaron Craft shoot more open jumpers than Quinn Cook? It's hard to say who the "better shooter" is when the stats are so close overall. I'd argue that Craft got more open looks his freshman and sophomore years and then when defenses started guarding him more, he made fewer shots.

I think the point is that, while Cook may be a better shooter, the stats don't really back up the perception.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Quinn is not the best player on this year, but he one of the most tenured on this extremely young team. Last year, he was one of our most important players during the first half of the season, but didn't remain as consistent throughout. This year, the team will look to Quinn for a steady hand, exceptional on-the-ball defense, strong passing, and leadership. If he scores 12+ a game, that's pure gravy.

I have been stating on DBR that Rasheed is our most important player, but I'm beginning to think that it's Quinn. I think we will go as far as Quinn takes us.

[mattman91]

Quinn is not the best player on this year, but he one of the most tenured on this extremely young team. Last year, he was one of our most important players during the first half of the season, but didn't remain as consistent throughout. This year, the team will look to Quinn for a steady hand, exceptional on-the-ball defense, strong passing, and leadership. If he scores 12+ a game, that's pure gravy.

I have been stating on DBR that Rasheed is our most important player, but I'm beginning to think that it's Quinn. I think we will go as far as Quinn takes us.

Ditto. Having a team full of athletes and scorers does you no good when you don't have a good point guard...just ask the 2012 Kentucky Wildcats.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ditto. Having a team full of athletes and scorers does you no good when you don't have a good point guard...just ask the 2012 Kentucky Wildcats.

:( I felt that poor Ryan Harrow was the only likable asset on that team. Hearing him cry during the last game when they were on the bubble for getting into the tournament made me hate Calipari even more.

[johnb]

...

I have been stating on DBR that Rasheed is our most important player, but I'm beginning to think that it's Quinn. I think we will go as far as Quinn takes us.

Hmmm... since K has said he intends for this to a lite version of the olympic team, I'd have to say that things will be going through Jabari and Rodney. If both of them are on All American teams by the end of the year, then we'll be in the mix for the Final Four if our other players--including Quinn--improve at an average expectable rate and don't get injured.

Point guard may be pivotal in college basketball and especially on a Duke team, but--given our excellence at the wing positions--it seems less crucial than usual for our PG to be All ACC, much less the best in the country.

If Quinn is up for all american honors, that's great, but it might mean he's dribbling/passing/assisting more than K currently has planned and that may not be our best approach to the promised land. Anyway, all that is to say that if Quinn is efficient and relatively unsung, I wouldn't be worried (especially if he is fully on board with the Tyus Jones recruitment; in lesser hands, I could imagine the spectre of a PT crunch could lead the incumbent PG to feel a need to flex his muscles before the newcomer arrives, which could hamper the team flow--but if any team and coaching staff can handle that issue, I'd be guessing we'd be the ones--and who knows how this next week will shake out...).

[vick]

Appreciate you breaking that down for me. I'll try (again) to remember this going forward.

So as I look at this, does this mean that Craft gets more layups? How else would his TS% be higher than cook while being worse at both three pointers and free throws? (Note: I guess he was actually worse last year at TS%.)

To me, the strongest piece of evidence is Sophomore Quinn Cook was considerably better at both three pointers and free throws than Junior Aaron Craft. Hence, a better shooter. Not a better scorer (although I'd probably still argue Quinn here), not a better player (I would probably argue Junior Craft > Sophomore Cook here).

If you want to talk about who the better player is - that becomes a real tough debate, I reckon. But this one, to me, is not overly complicated.

- Chillin

Getting to the free throw line matters a lot in true shooting percentage (IMO rightly, as it is highly valuable). Imagine two players:

Jumpshooter: 50/100 2P, 80/200 3P, 180/200 FT
Slasher: 45/100 2P, 35/100 3P, 350/400 FT

Assume for a moment that each free throw was on a two-point shot so we don't have to deal with the way true shooting percentage estimates possessions from free throws. Each player would then have consumed 400 total possessions here and Jumpshooter is better at every aspect of shooting--50% vs. 45% 2P, 40% vs. 35% 3P, and 90% vs. 87.5% FT. Despite this, Jumpshooter produces 520 points--while Slasher produces 545. Since most players shoot free throws more accurately than two-pointers, players who get to the line frequently are often highly efficient scorers even if their FG% isn't spectacular (Russ Smith was a real standout at this last year).

This is an extremely stylized example of why Craft wasn't (much) worse as a scorer than Cook--he was much more proficient at getting to the line. This is something that makes me even more optimistic about this year, by the way, since in an up-and-down game, the opponents can often get fatigued which leads to fouls on penetration. Since Cook is a good free throw shooter, this could make him a more valuable scorer.

[Dukehky]

The player craft reminds me of the most, strictly in basketball ability, is Wojo. He's the best perimeter defender in college basketball with a jump shot that is pretty good, streaky though. The kid can run a team.

I'm happy that Quinn is on this pre-season list, and I think that he is in for a very good year. His defense has improved, just from what we saw in CTC. He absolutely ate TT's lunch, and while TT doesn't have a great offensive game, the kid isn't exactly a slouch handling the ball, see Louisville Elite 8 game. He was our answer to consistency in breaking the press and did a good job.

I just hope he doesn't feel obligated to be a scorer. Quinn, buddy, you're the PG, I know we don't have 'positions,' but spread the ball around, and shoot when you're open.

[Troublemaker]

Mad respect for Quinn. Love the offseason improvement he made on defense, which Coach K has noted. He indeed did showcase this elite ball-pressure ability at CTC, rendering Tyler to be unable to bring the ball upcourt, which spurred a comeback for Quinn's team at the end of Session 1 (falling short when Andre got those free throws). In Session 2, Tyler played mostly off the ball b/c of Quinn's demonstrated ball-pressure.

Besides defense, Quinn looked really in control on offense. He has nice range on his shot. I feel like he can crossover and get a decent look at a 3 or a mid-range anytime he wants. He can play pick and roll with Amile leading to a dunk. He can hit receivers upcourt on the fastbreak. Just playing a really complete game right now. Jabari and Hood are options 1 and 2, but Cook is that third playmaker that teams so often lack.

[OldPhiKap]

Quinn should really benefit from three things this year:

1. Uptempo, pressing style allows for more open space plays. That suits him well.
2. Last year, defenses had to pack in on Mase which sometimes clogs the lane. Defenses should be more spread this year, allowing for drives +1.
3. The best thing about sophomores is that they become juniors. The kid's game continues to grow. Plenty of upside left still to tap.

[Newton_14]

Cook Named to 2014 Cousy Award Watch List (http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=22724&SPID=1845&DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=209289435&DB_OEM_ID=4200)

I know here at DBR we think highly of this young man's talent, but it is about time Quinn started getting some national recognition. He had a 2.4-1 assist to turnover ratio last season and flew way under the radar in my opinion. Early reports are saying has significantly improved his "D" over the off-season, and I think he should really thrive with this years offense. Should be a fun player to keep an eye out for this season.

Other than Marcus Smart, I don't know of any other point that is on another talent level, and has proven himself at the college level.

Other natable names on the list are Marcus Paige, UNC (lol), Aaron Craft, Ohio State (LOL), Tyler Ennis, Syracuse, and Andrew Harrison, Kentucky.

I agree. He is primed for a good year. I also think Quinn is a very good 3-Point shooter, when, he takes "good three's". That is so key for him. You could argue it is for any player and be right, but when Quinn takes what I define as a good three, more often than not they go in. When he rushes his shot, jacks one up from 2 feet behind the line out of frustration, or take one while floating to the side rather than feet set and squared, he misses more often than not.

If he can work on taking the high percentage 3 when it is there, and passing on the bad three's, he will become very difficult to deal with, and the level of this team will go up another notch or too.

My other wish for Quinn this year (as with Rasheed), embrace the "Next Play" mindset. No head hanging after a bad play. Forget it and go make a good play on the other end.

[gep]

If he can work on taking the high percentage 3 when it is there, and passing on the bad three's, he will become very difficult to deal with, and the level of this team will go up another notch or too.

And... passing from a bad 3 to the right spot, he may get the pass back and be in a position for a good 3.

[DukieInBrasil]

My other wish for Quinn this year (as with Rasheed), embrace the "Next Play" mindset. No head hanging after a bad play. Forget it and go make a good play on the other end.

This is the thing that can turn Quinn from a very good PG into an excellent one, and perhaps he has made that mental adjustment. All reports indicate that his defense has improved substantially, which would indicate some mental adjustments, so perhaps he has turned that corner.
I fully expect Quinn to perform at a higher level this year. His raw stats might not improve, considering we have so many more scoring options this year, but it would be surprising if his efficiency stats don't go up, like FG%, 3FG%, A/TO, perhaps even FT% and hopefully the rate at which he goes to the FT line. I'm hoping that plethora of scoring options and a faster offensive tempo will turn into more assists from Quinn off the break or the drive-n-dish.
We'll get our first look at him tomorrow (for those who go to the game or buy the tv deal) in a competitive game!

[Henderson]

My other wish for Quinn this year (as with Rasheed), embrace the "Next Play" mindset. No head hanging after a bad play. Forget it and go make a good play on the other end.

Bobby Hurley had this problem, and the coaching staff sat him down with a video montage of his reactions to unsuccessful situations. He got it. I wonder if the staff has given Quinn the Hurley treatment. He just seems more focused.

I thought Quinn regressed a little last year. I had the impression sometimes that he was trying to do too much, be too much. I look for him to play more within the team concept this year, grind down on defense, and distribute the ball well.

The Tyus Jones factor: If Tyus Jones commits, Quinn might have one of three reactions: 1. I need to get my stats together for the draft next year (bad); or 2. I need to establish myself as the leader of this team going into 2014, so that I'm the mentor and he's the protege (good); or 3. I'm interested in the 2014 draft, so I need to establish myself as the overall best point guard in the nation by playing good D, running the offense, distributing the ball, shooting well (even if not always often), and taking the drives to the basket intelligently when they are available (best).

[NSDukeFan]

Bobby Hurley had this problem, and the coaching staff sat him down with a video montage of his reactions to unsuccessful situations. He got it. I wonder if the staff has given Quinn the Hurley treatment. He just seems more focused.

I thought Quinn regressed a little last year. I had the impression sometimes that he was trying to do too much, be too much. I look for him to play more within the team concept this year, grind down on defense, and distribute the ball well.

The Tyus Jones factor: If Tyus Jones commits, Quinn might have one of three reactions: 1. I need to get my stats together for the draft next year (bad); or 2. I need to establish myself as the leader of this team going into 2014, so that I'm the mentor and he's the protege (good); or 3. I'm interested in the 2014 draft, so I need to establish myself as the overall best point guard in the nation by playing good D, running the offense, distributing the ball, shooting well (even if not always often), and taking the drives to the basket intelligently when they are available (best).

or 4. That's great! Another great young player to help our team next year.