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Olympic Fan
10-21-2013, 03:27 PM
The NCAA will finally deliver its infractions report on Miami Tuesday:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9859464/miami-hurricanes-told-expect-ncaa-decision

Miami thinks because they've voluntarily skipped two straight bowls that the new penalties will not include an additional bowl ban. But if the penalties do include a new ban, Miami is likely to appeal -- and that could stretch the final decision until after this year's bowl season.

So the 'Canes PROBABLY play in a bowl this year.

Dev11
10-21-2013, 05:04 PM
The NCAA will finally deliver its infractions report on Miami Tuesday:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9859464/miami-hurricanes-told-expect-ncaa-decision

Miami thinks because they've voluntarily skipped two straight bowls that the new penalties will not include an additional bowl ban. But if the penalties do include a new ban, Miami is likely to appeal -- and that could stretch the final decision until after this year's bowl season.

So the 'Canes PROBABLY play in a bowl this year.

In all the talk about FSU getting to the NCG, there is of course the (I think slim) possibility that Miami just keeps on winning and ends up undefeated, putting them in the discussion. If Oregon or Alabama loses, who deserves a shot more, an undefeated Miami team or an undefeated OSU team? Could be an interesting part of the discussion tomorrow

tommy
10-21-2013, 05:52 PM
In all the talk about FSU getting to the NCG, there is of course the (I think slim) possibility that Miami just keeps on winning and ends up undefeated, putting them in the discussion. If Oregon or Alabama loses, who deserves a shot more, an undefeated Miami team or an undefeated OSU team? Could be an interesting part of the discussion tomorrow

While neither team faces a particularly daunting schedule, I think you'd have to say that Miami's is a little more difficult. The Canes have 2 teams currently in the BCS top 25 on their schedule, #2 Florida State as well as #14 Virginia Tech. And they already beat an unranked but still pretty good Florida team. The only top 25 team Ohio State plays is #22 Michigan, though they did beat unranked but still pretty good Wisconsin.

If Stanford runs the table, with their SOS is going to be pretty high, I could see them overtaking Miami or Ohio State.

blazindw
10-21-2013, 08:09 PM
While neither team faces a particularly daunting schedule, I think you'd have to say that Miami's is a little more difficult. The Canes have 2 teams currently in the BCS top 25 on their schedule, #2 Florida State as well as #14 Virginia Tech. And they already beat an unranked but still pretty good Florida team. The only top 25 team Ohio State plays is #22 Michigan, though they did beat unranked but still pretty good Wisconsin.

If Stanford runs the table, with their SOS is going to be pretty high, I could see them overtaking Miami or Ohio State.

I don't like the fact people look at Florida as unranked. They were #9 in the country when Miami took them down. The fact that Florida has imploded is not Miami's fault. Plus, you would think that beating someone from the "untouchable" SEC would factor highly.

The FSU game will be THE game in my law school alma mater's circles. Virginia Tech won't be #14 when Miami faces them since we plan on beating them on Saturday. ;)

tommy
10-21-2013, 11:26 PM
I don't like the fact people look at Florida as unranked. They were #9 in the country when Miami took them down. The fact that Florida has imploded is not Miami's fault. Plus, you would think that beating someone from the "untouchable" SEC would factor highly.

The FSU game will be THE game in my law school alma mater's circles. Virginia Tech won't be #14 when Miami faces them since we plan on beating them on Saturday. ;)

Looks to me like the Gators were way overrated at the time Miami beat them. What have they done to deserve being ranked at this point? They're 4-3. Their wins have come over Toledo at home, Tennessee at home, at Kentucky, and over Arkansas at home. Not an impressive squad in the bunch. All three games they've played against good competition -- at Miami, at LSU, and at Missouri, they've lost, including this past weekend's 19 point spanking by Mizzou. Kinda mediocre if you ask me.

-bdbd
10-22-2013, 01:40 AM
In all the talk about FSU getting to the NCG, there is of course the (I think slim) possibility that Miami just keeps on winning and ends up undefeated, putting them in the discussion. If Oregon or Alabama loses, who deserves a shot more, an undefeated Miami team or an undefeated OSU team? Could be an interesting part of the discussion tomorrow

They would need to beat FSU in a couple weeks, win out the season and take the ACC championship (probably against Clemson or FSU). It can happen, but a tough road.

BigWayne
10-22-2013, 02:14 AM
If Stanford runs the table, with their SOS is going to be pretty high, I could see them overtaking Miami or Ohio State.

Stanford is already in front of Miami and they will maintain their strength of schedule over Miami in the 2nd half of the season. If they both win out, an extremely unlikely scenario, Stanford will remain in front of Miami due to mathematics. Ohio State is another story. One loss Stanford probably beats out OSU. Baylor could complicate things if they keep winning. Lot of football left to be played though.

BigWayne
10-22-2013, 03:10 AM
The NCAA will finally deliver its infractions report on Miami Tuesday:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9859464/miami-hurricanes-told-expect-ncaa-decision

Miami thinks because they've voluntarily skipped two straight bowls that the new penalties will not include an additional bowl ban. But if the penalties do include a new ban, Miami is likely to appeal -- and that could stretch the final decision until after this year's bowl season.

So the 'Canes PROBABLY play in a bowl this year.

Based on the speed the NCAA has moved on this case, it would be shocking for an appeal to be concluded before bowl bids go out. In fact, I believe they have 15 days to notify the NCAA they want to appeal and then 30 days to file the written appeal. That puts us into the first week in Dec. before the NCAA even gets the ball back on their side of the net.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-22-2013, 05:25 AM
Miami has suffered enough from this absurd investigation, which was botched on so many levels. I'm sure the NCAA feels it has to justify 2-3 years of whatever it was they were doing, but anything more than a wrist slap would be unjustified unless they are able to provide clear evidence of systematic malfeasance. I just wanted to say malfeasance. I'm not even entirely sure what it means, but it sounds smelly.

They need something more than a convicted criminal repeating his accusations twice, which as I understand it, was enough to qualify as corroboration from the NCAA's point of view. If they are made to miss another postseason game, I hope the U lawyers up and tries to find a way to get the NCAA where it hurts. I'm not sure what recourse they have, but I'm pretty sure Donna Shalala has looked into it.

As for the football team's performance...hey, I'm a fan of the U...grew up in Miami, been going to the games for years...Duke and Miami are 1 and 1A for me, in no particular order. This team has some good talent and they've earned their #6/7 ranking, but they are not in reality a Top 10 team, and there's no way they're going to finish their season as such. I hope they prove me wrong. If they can even hang with FSU on the road, I'l be very impressed, but I don't like their chances.

rotogod00
10-22-2013, 09:14 AM
Early word in no bowl ban, but a loss a 9 scholarships (3 scholarships per year for 3 years)

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9861775/miami-hurricanes-avoid-bowl-ban-lose-nine-scholarships-part-ncaa-sanctions

Highlander
10-22-2013, 09:16 AM
The FSU game will be THE game in my law school alma mater's circles. Virginia Tech won't be #14 when Miami faces them since we plan on beating them on Saturday. ;)

One can dream.

But it brings up an interesting point - who would a Duke win over VT hurt more? The ACC because it knocked out one of their top teams? Or Alabama by sullying their one respectable non-conference win?

I say the ACC. Alabama could play NCCU's every single week and the AP would still have them #1 until they lose a game (and given their track record the past two years it is hard to argue against that). I doubt sullying a nonconference win would put a huge dent in their poll standings. They still have to lose at least once to put their NC hopes in jeopardy. However, it would reinforce the talk about how the ACC is mediocre.

Dev11
10-22-2013, 09:19 AM
One can dream.

But it brings up an interesting point - who would a Duke win over VT hurt more? The ACC because it knocked out one of their top teams? Or Alabama by sullying their one respectable non-conference win?

I say the ACC. Alabama could play NCCU's every single week and the AP would still have them #1 until they lose a game (and given their track record the past two years it is hard to argue against that). I doubt sullying a nonconference win would put a huge dent in their poll standings. They still have to lose at least once to put their NC hopes in jeopardy. However, it would reinforce the talk about how the ACC is mediocre.

I think at this point, the ACC's hopes of national attention rest on FSU, Clemson, and Miami, in that order. Virginia Tech hasn't been a part of the national conversation since Alabama 'spanked' them (the score, I think, tells a slightly different story from the game). If Duke beats VT, I don't think it really affects the ACC or Alabama. If Alabama goes undefeated, they still have victories over LSU, A&M, and Ole Miss, among others.

moonpie23
10-22-2013, 10:37 AM
no more sanctions and only 9 scholly's?


if that's what miami gets, UNC is completely absolved of all transgressions...

FerryFor50
10-22-2013, 10:42 AM
no more sanctions and only 9 scholly's?


if that's what miami gets, UNC is completely absolved of all transgressions...

Hey, UNC instituted a self-imposed class ban. No more African American studies classes for at least a year. That should count for something...

Neals384
10-22-2013, 11:41 AM
NCAA decision is out:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9861775/miami-hurricanes-avoid-bowl-ban-lose-nine-scholarships-part-ncaa-sanctions
(http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9861775/miami-hurricanes-avoid-bowl-ban-lose-nine-scholarships-part-ncaa-sanctions)
No football bowl ban, but they get a 3-tear probabtion, lose FB scholarships and also 3 basketball scholarships.

SoCalDukeFan
10-22-2013, 12:50 PM
USC Football - one player cited for receiving benefits, most of the benefit went to his parents who were 100 miles away. Benefits came over a two year period. NCAA implies that an assistant coach knew, he is suing the NCAA. Massive penalty to USC, 30 scholarships, bowl ban, etc. Benefits from 2 guys who wanted to be agents and no one knew anything about.

Miami - Per the NCAA
Many of Miami's violations were undetected by the university over a 10-year period, and they centered on a booster entertaining prospects and student-athletes at his home, on his yacht and in various restaurants and clubs. Approximately 30 student-athletes were involved with the booster. Several football coaches, three men's basketball coaches and two athletics department staff members were also involved in the case. These staff members had a poor understanding of NCAA rules or felt comfortable breaking them. Furthermore, some of the coaches provided false information during the enforcement staff and university's investigation.

The former head men's basketball coach failed to meet his responsibilities as a head coach when he did not monitor the activities of his assistant coaches, and attempted to cover up the booster's threats to disclose incriminating information, according to the committee. Additionally, two assistant football coaches and one assistant men's basketball coach did not follow NCAA ethical conduct rules

Many of the violations in the football and men's basketball program are separate and distinct violations, with the common link of the booster. From 2001 through 2008, the booster donated and pledged approximately $500,000 to the university's athletics program. He hosted a fundraising bowling tournament, attended by university officials, which raised $50,000 for the men's basketball program. The committee determined the booster was extremely visible because the university granted him special access to athletics events and named a student lounge after him. Additionally, the booster entertained groups of student-athletes and operated in the public view. Knowing all of this, the university did very little to control or to monitor the conduct of the booster, the committee said.

Miami loses 3 scholarships per year for 3 years, USC loses 10 per year for 3 years.

NCAA is a total joke.

SoCal

SCMatt33
10-22-2013, 01:02 PM
SoCal, I do think there are some key mitigating factors for Miami that lead me to believe their overall punishment was fair. First, they imposed legit penalties on themselves (2 year bowl ban). The NCAA does look kindly on those who accept what they've done and take action (see USC basketball vs football). Second (and often overlooked) is that USC fell under the repeat violator clause (which Miami did not to my knowledge). This already put them in line to get more severe penalties than another school even for similar offenses.

Chard
10-22-2013, 01:18 PM
Miami loses 3 scholarships per year for 3 years, USC loses 10 per year for 3 years.

NCAA is a total joke.

SoCal

Think of it this way:

Both schools are driving down the road and run a stop sign. School A's transgression happens years before School B's.

School A runs the stop sign, blows by law enforcement, flips the bird, gets caught, claims they didn't do anything wrong. The officer writes them up and later finds evidence that school A did run the sign (video posted to FB of course), School A shows up at court and flips the judge the bird too.

School B is aware of the situation but ends up running the same stop sign years later. School B decides to pull over, wait for law enforcement, flags them down, hands the keys to the officer, tells them what they did, says that they will now walk home and have the car towed. The officer takes their info and follows up with School B's associates, questions the school repeatedly, draggs them through the mud, plants evidence then gets caught planting the evidence and then goes before the judge. School B walks to court and pleads before the judge, tells the judge about the walking and towing and more walking.

What do you think would happen?

Regarding this season: Miami has yet to put it all together on offense. If they can get healthy and in sync this team could run the table. I predict a loss at FSU but also a win at a neutral site for the ACC Championship against the noles.

Don't discount the win against Florida. Florida came in with an experienced squad that went 11-2 last year. Since the loss at Miami, they've lost the starting QB, RB, one high-quality OL and I think a very, very good DL. They've done well to be competitive since then.

SoCalDukeFan
10-22-2013, 01:26 PM
SoCal, I do think there are some key mitigating factors for Miami that lead me to believe their overall punishment was fair. First, they imposed legit penalties on themselves (2 year bowl ban). The NCAA does look kindly on those who accept what they've done and take action (see USC basketball vs football). Second (and often overlooked) is that USC fell under the repeat violator clause (which Miami did not to my knowledge). This already put them in line to get more severe penalties than another school even for similar offenses.

I think USC did acknowledge basketball infractions and punished themselves. May be wrong.

The earlier violations, 2001, were for a tutor writing papers for football players and women swimmers. Compare that to UNC.

Alabama was a repeat violator as well and got a lighter punishment than USC.

Miami banning themselves was a smart move. Threatening legal challenge to the corrruupt NCAA was smarter.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/21733498/shalala-miami-ready-for-a-fight-after-ncaa-releases-allegations

USC maintained at the time that the school did nothing wrong so why punish themselves? NCAA alledged asst coach knew, he is suiing the NCAA.

Many USC believe, and I am starting to agree with them, that the late Paul Dee, the Miami AD who headed the committe that investigated USC was just jealous of their success.

SoCal

killerleft
10-22-2013, 01:40 PM
One can dream.

But it brings up an interesting point - who would a Duke win over VT hurt more? The ACC because it knocked out one of their top teams? Or Alabama by sullying their one respectable non-conference win?

I say the ACC. Alabama could play NCCU's every single week and the AP would still have them #1 until they lose a game (and given their track record the past two years it is hard to argue against that). I doubt sullying a nonconference win would put a huge dent in their poll standings. They still have to lose at least once to put their NC hopes in jeopardy. However, it would reinforce the talk about how the ACC is mediocre.

May the ACC suffer mightily, I say. Mightily. When an SEC equivalent of Duke beating VT happens, John Feinstein shrugs and says that's one balanced and formidable league!;)

BigWayne
10-22-2013, 01:44 PM
In the ESPN article, at least the version I read earlier today, the NCAA spokeswoman makes a point about the cooperation of Miami in the investigation as significant mitigating factor. One can only hope this turns against those that don't cooperate and instead conduct bogus investigations of themselves that never turn up any wrongdoing.

Mabdul Doobakus
10-22-2013, 03:46 PM
The punishment to Miami was fair. Miami not only skipped two bowl games, but skipped the ACC Title game last year, meaning they potentially skipped a BCS game. They also may have self-imposed some scholarship restrictions.

I don't think the small scholarship restriction will hurt them in any meaningful sense, and now the program can finally move on. Good day for the program.

sagegrouse
10-22-2013, 04:07 PM
In the ESPN article, at least the version I read earlier today, the NCAA spokeswoman makes a point about the cooperation of Miami in the investigation as significant mitigating factor. One can only hope this turns against those that don't cooperate and instead conduct bogus investigations of themselves that never turn up any wrongdoing.


The punishment to Miami was fair. Miami not only skipped two bowl games, but skipped the ACC Title game last year, meaning they potentially skipped a BCS game. They also may have self-imposed some scholarship restrictions.

I don't think the small scholarship restriction will hurt them in any meaningful sense, and now the program can finally move on. Good day for the program.

Well, the other contributing factor is the NCAA misbehavior in the legal investigation, where the NCAA attorneys unethically worked with the accused booster,Nevin Shapiro, and his lawyers to get dirt on Miami. Miami was gonna be dealt with leniently.

I agree that the punishment was fair but I disagree that the loss of nine scholarships won't hurt the Canes. USC lost twice as many, and the Trojans have had trouble winning half their games. Miami's smaller penalty has to have an effect.

sagegrouse

Mabdul Doobakus
10-22-2013, 05:06 PM
Well, the other contributing factor is the NCAA misbehavior in the legal investigation, where the NCAA attorneys unethically worked with the accused booster,Nevin Shapiro, and his lawyers to get dirt on Miami. Miami was gonna be dealt with leniently.

I agree that the punishment was fair but I disagree that the loss of nine scholarships won't hurt the Canes. USC lost twice as many, and the Trojans have had trouble winning half their games. Miami's smaller penalty has to have an effect.

sagegrouse

I think a very small effect. USC lost more than three times as many (not twice as many). 10 a year is enough to significantly deplete a talent pool. I'm not really sure 3 a year is going to have a significant effect. I doubt it leads to any loss of top level talent, but it may hurt their depth just a little.

For what it's worth, a 3-star DL recruit who had previously committed to USC announced he was going to go to Miami instead, literally hours after the NCAA announcement. Not sure if there's any connection there, but it's interesting.

Olympic Fan
10-22-2013, 05:09 PM
I'm tired of those crying that Miami got off light, especially compared to UNC ...

UNC got a one-year bowl ban.

Miami got a TWO-YEAR bowl ban.

The difference is that Miami knew their program was screwed up and self-imposed bowl bans before the NCAA could rule. They passed up a bowl in 2011 and 2012.

UNC was so arrogant that they were sure THEY wouldn't get a bowl ban, so they refused to self-impose. They got to go get whipped by Missouri in the 2011 Independence Bowl.

Then they got hit by last year's bowl ban which kept them out of a decent bowl and the ACC championship game ... and despite their self-proclaimed title, they were officially banned by the ACC from winning the Division title (which didn't stop them from passing out division title rings).

And neither UNC nor the NCAA has addressed the AFAM scandal that has emerged since the NCAA was on campus.

I'd say Miami is the one that ought to be screaming about unfairness -- what UNC did was MUCH worse ... and their punishment was less.

miramar
10-22-2013, 08:19 PM
Well, the other contributing factor is the NCAA misbehavior in the legal investigation, where the NCAA attorneys unethically worked with the accused booster,Nevin Shapiro, and his lawyers to get dirt on Miami. Miami was gonna be dealt with leniently.

sagegrouse

The NCAA really shot themselves in the foot with their own miscues:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/22/3705565/fumbles-by-ncaa-helped-lessen.html

Not to mention that their delays allowed Shalala plenty of wiggle room:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/22/3705028/um-president-donna-shalala-lauded.html

blazindw
10-22-2013, 11:11 PM
I'm tired of those crying that Miami got off light, especially compared to UNC ...

UNC got a one-year bowl ban.

Miami got a TWO-YEAR bowl ban.

The difference is that Miami knew their program was screwed up and self-imposed bowl bans before the NCAA could rule. They passed up a bowl in 2011 and 2012.

UNC was so arrogant that they were sure THEY wouldn't get a bowl ban, so they refused to self-impose. They got to go get whipped by Missouri in the 2011 Independence Bowl.

Then they got hit by last year's bowl ban which kept them out of a decent bowl and the ACC championship game ... and despite their self-proclaimed title, they were officially banned by the ACC from winning the Division title (which didn't stop them from passing out division title rings).

And neither UNC nor the NCAA has addressed the AFAM scandal that has emerged since the NCAA was on campus.

I'd say Miami is the one that ought to be screaming about unfairness -- what UNC did was MUCH worse ... and their punishment was less.

Agree with all of this. As a Miami Law alum, I can say that everyone in Miami circles is glad the NCAA came to its senses and didn't impose any further harsh sanctions (not making light of the lost scholarships and the show-cause penalties). Imposing a bowl ban would have been immediately appealed and not even decided until after this year would end, so Miami was going to go to a bowl game anyway. A 2-year ban (self-imposed) was enough. Miami is ready to close this dark chapter and turn the page.

SoCalDukeFan
10-22-2013, 11:17 PM
1. If another school threatens you, get you AD to head the committee, investigate, and throw the book at them.
2. Cheat like hell. Honor boosters who pay players, look the other way.
3. Set up no work easy A classes for athletes. Let a few frat brothers who don't play sports in to make it look good.
4. When the NCAA investigates, slap yourselves on the wrist, cooperate.
5. Accept light punishment, or not punishment re 2 above.

SoCal

JasonEvans
10-23-2013, 08:55 AM
4. When the NCAA investigates, slap yourselves on the wrist, cooperate.
5. Accept light punishment, or not punishment re 2 above.

You seem to be saying that a 2 year bowl ban, including one year when you would likely have played in a BCS bowl, is a "slap on the wrist." I don't see it that way at all. What kind of punishment do you think Miami should have gotten beyond a 2 year bowl ban and significant (3 per year is a lot for a football team) scholarship reductions? It is pretty darn rare for the NCAA to go to a 3-year bowl ban. Considering Miami's cooperation and the NCAA's own misdoings in this investigation, I think 2 is more than appropriate.

-Jason "the thing I love about USC football is that they find ways to expose their backside to the world even when the story has nothing to do with them. Whew, am I glad I don't root for that team!!" Evans

Zeke
10-23-2013, 09:59 AM
The former Miami BB coach paid $10,000 hush money TWICE and gets a 5 game suspension. Tennessee's Bruce Pearl committed the unforgivable sin of having a recruit to his house for a cookout and gets thrown out of BB for several yrs. Admittedly he tried to cover it up and lied to the NCAA but really where is the justice there.

sagegrouse
10-23-2013, 10:09 AM
The former Miami BB coach paid $10,000 hush money TWICE and gets a 5 game suspension. Tennessee's Bruce Pearl committed the unforgivable sin of having a recruit to his house for a cookout and gets thrown out of BB for several yrs. Admittedly he tried to cover it up and lied to the NCAA but really where is the justice there.

Lying to the prosecutors and regulators is highly penalized because the authorities believe it undermines the entire system. Martha Stewart may have a few thoughts on this subject.

sagegrouse

SoCalDukeFan
10-23-2013, 11:21 AM
You seem to be saying that a 2 year bowl ban, including one year when you would likely have played in a BCS bowl, is a "slap on the wrist." I don't see it that way at all. What kind of punishment do you think Miami should have gotten beyond a 2 year bowl ban and significant (3 per year is a lot for a football team) scholarship reductions? It is pretty darn rare for the NCAA to go to a 3-year bowl ban. Considering Miami's cooperation and the NCAA's own misdoings in this investigation, I think 2 is more than appropriate.

-Jason "the thing I love about USC football is that they find ways to expose their backside to the world even when the story has nothing to do with them. Whew, am I glad I don't root for that team!!" Evans

Lets see:
Miami had multiple offenses in mulitple sports over 10 years. The benefactor was a booster who was honorerd by the school. Coaches knew what was going on and did nothing and lied.
USC had one player involved. Most of the benefits were received by his parents 100 miles away. The benefactors were ex-cons who were unknown to USC and the sports world in general. The ex-cons said that one USC assistant coach knew, he denies it and is suiing the NCAA.

The difference is that Miami knew they were very guilty and bent over for the NCAA. USC cooperated, at least to the extent of NCAA requirements but did not punish themselves, I think because they expected a fairly light punishment. USC believed their coach and thought no one at the school was aware of the problem, see Corey Maggette and Duke.

Both schools received similar punishments regarding bowl games. If USC lost 30 scholarships, then Miami should have lost at least 90.

BTW I think USC got over easy in the OJ Mayo case but thats another story.

SoCal

SoCalDukeFan
10-23-2013, 11:24 AM
You seem to be saying that a 2 year bowl ban, including one year when you would likely have played in a BCS bowl, is a "slap on the wrist." I don't see it that way at all. What kind of punishment do you think Miami should have gotten beyond a 2 year bowl ban and significant (3 per year is a lot for a football team) scholarship reductions? It is pretty darn rare for the NCAA to go to a 3-year bowl ban. Considering Miami's cooperation and the NCAA's own misdoings in this investigation, I think 2 is more than appropriate.

-Jason "the thing I love about USC football is that they find ways to expose their backside to the world even when the story has nothing to do with them. Whew, am I glad I don't root for that team!!" Evans

Everything is relative. I think the real problem is not that Miami got off too easy, its that USC got punished too hard.
Compared to USC Miami got a wrist slap.

SoCal

arnie
10-23-2013, 11:32 AM
Lets see:
Miami had multiple offenses in mulitple sports over 10 years. The benefactor was a booster who was honorerd by the school. Coaches knew what was going on and did nothing and lied.
USC had one player involved. Most of the benefits were received by his parents 100 miles away. The benefactors were ex-cons who were unknown to USC and the sports world in general. The ex-cons said that one USC assistant coach knew, he denies it and is suiing the NCAA.

The difference is that Miami knew they were very guilty and bent over for the NCAA. USC cooperated, at least to the extent of NCAA requirements but did not punish themselves, I think because they expected a fairly light punishment. USC believed their coach and thought no one at the school was aware of the problem, see Corey Maggette and Duke.

Both schools received similar punishments regarding bowl games. If USC lost 30 scholarships, then Miami should have lost at least 90.

BTW I think USC got over easy in the OJ Mayo case but thats another story.

SoCal

I agree with SoCal on this - miami's program was fully corrupted for a very long time . Once caught they couldn't deny it - only the NCAA investigators mucked up the process. I still don't understand how the Heels have avoided similar penalties. The academic corruption is a given, just the known payments to athletes are smaller. Seems that USC violations not nearly as severe as Miami or the Heels.

SoCalDukeFan
10-23-2013, 07:26 PM
10 years of using players who received improper benefits?

SoCal

miramar
10-24-2013, 11:44 PM
The former Miami BB coach paid $10,000 hush money TWICE and gets a 5 game suspension. Tennessee's Bruce Pearl committed the unforgivable sin of having a recruit to his house for a cookout and gets thrown out of BB for several yrs. Admittedly he tried to cover it up and lied to the NCAA but really where is the justice there.

Curiously, Haith seems to think that he's the victim here:

"While I strongly disagree with today's report, and the inference on how the program was run at the University of Miami, as head basketball coach during that period, I accept responsibility for all actions in and around that program," Haith said in a statement. "This has been an excruciating ordeal for my family. An appeal, which would likely drag further into the season, would only prolong what has already been a lengthy and trying period of time for our student-athletes, the University of Missouri and our fans, and it's time for closure."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9862272/missouri-tigers-coach-frank-haith-suspended-five-games-ncaa

tommy
10-24-2013, 11:48 PM
Curiously, Haith seems to think that he's the victim here:

"While I strongly disagree with today's report, and the inference on how the program was run at the University of Miami, as head basketball coach during that period, I accept responsibility for all actions in and around that program," Haith said in a statement. "This has been an excruciating ordeal for my family. An appeal, which would likely drag further into the season, would only prolong what has already been a lengthy and trying period of time for our student-athletes, the University of Missouri and our fans, and it's time for closure."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9862272/missouri-tigers-coach-frank-haith-suspended-five-games-ncaa

Haith should've been suspended for a year. I don't care that it penalizes Missouri. Missouri hired him away from Miami at a time when the Shapiro scandal had already broken, and it was quite apparent that Haith was deeply involved in the wrongdoing. They took a chance on hiring the slimeball, so sorry, they should pay the price too.

miramar
10-27-2013, 09:27 AM
Haith should've been suspended for a year. I don't care that it penalizes Missouri. Missouri hired him away from Miami at a time when the Shapiro scandal had already broken, and it was quite apparent that Haith was deeply involved in the wrongdoing. They took a chance on hiring the slimeball, so sorry, they should pay the price too.

Frank Haith is even worse than I thought. While the guy continues to collect his $1.6 million dollar salary at Missouri, the Miami Herald reports that Jorge Fernandez, one of the assistant coaches who was doing his dirty work, has lost his $138,000 UM salary and will soon lose his house to foreclosure:

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/27/3713462/um-recruiting-scandal-scars-assistant.html

Sportswriter Linda Robertson (a UNC alum) called Haith out a few days ago in another story:

Former basketball coach Frank Haith is portrayed [in the NCAA report] as a liar who changed his story three times and a manipulator who let his assistants do the dirty work. Haith escaped Miami for a better job at Missouri as the scandal was unfolding. Because of his “unethical conduct,” he will be suspended the first five games of the season, but two UM assistants left holding the bag have been blackballed from coaching.

The most comical example of a coverup in the UM case occurred when Haith wrote three “summer camp advance” checks to his assistants, who promptly cashed them at the same time at the same bank. Then [former assistant] Jake Morton, leaving a cellphone trail, delivered the $10,000 to Shapiro’s mother in order to placate Shapiro, who had been making calls from prison, threatening to expose Haith and Morton’s visit to a strip club and their $10,000 inducement — care of Shapiro — to a recruit. The assistants later lied to the NCAA about how they used the cash; one said it was for an air conditioner at his house.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/10/23/3705703_p2/linda-robertson-nevin-shapiro.html#storylink=cpy

So here is the bottom line: Fernandez and Morton are out of basketball for doing Haith's bidding, while the guy responsible will be suspended for five games and then will go on, no harm no foul. Unbelievable.

I can only hope that Haith's lousy coaching will catch up with him and that he will soon join the other two in the unemployment line.

blazindw
10-27-2013, 09:31 AM
The FSU game will be THE game in my law school alma mater's circles. Virginia Tech won't be #14 when Miami faces them since we plan on beating them on Saturday. ;)

I don't like tooting my own horn, but with our HUGENORMOUS win over VT yesterday and College Gameday heading to the U/FSU game next weekend, I had to show myself some love. :)

Miami plays FSU then VT and then us. These next three weeks are a giant test for the Canes.