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JasonEvans
08-28-2007, 04:00 PM
This article (http://www.fayobserver.com/article?id=270848), linked on the DBR ACC page, is a very important read for ACC fans. It basically says that Dave Leitao is in huge trouble at UVA after losing Ed Davis to Carolina and that he needs to beat Duke and Tennessee for Elliot Williams.

Dave is yet to bring in a real stud recruit. In fact, Virginia Tech has a lot more top 100 recruits the past couple years than Virginia does.

Personally, I think it is a little early to declare that Leitao is on the hot seat, but the simple reality is that you need players to win in college ball. Leitao has not brought in any players of significance yet and is largely getting by on the kids left over from when he came into the program. When Singletary is gone after this year, there is going to be a real lack of talent at UVA unless Leitao gets Williams and probably someone else. Might he turn to JUCO as a way of filling his desperate need for basketball talent?

-Jason "if UVA had a tough instead of an easy ACC sked last year, Dave might be on the hot seat right now" Evans

VaDukie
08-28-2007, 04:26 PM
From one who knows by being surrounded by them, UVA fans typically build up their coaches very prematurely and then quickly turn on them. It happened with Gillen, it's happening with Groh, and it may not be far from happening with Leitao. As long as he puts together results on the court he'll be fine, but you wonder how long he can put together winning teams without more talent coming in.

But who knows, he may follow the lead of that program up in Storrs by going after less heralded guys that turn into big time players.

vacal
08-29-2007, 12:32 PM
It's a little too early to make any real judgements regarding Leitao's recruiting. Last year 2 new players were significantly hampered by surgery and another played with an injury that hasn't healed yet, another was specifically brought in as a project. This year's class, of course, hasn't played yet. The only big loss so far has been Davis and I agree with the article that this is far more of a perception thing. Everybody else on Leitao's "a" list is still in play. No telling how things will end up but, before writing these recruits off as losers lets see them play healthy and with a little experience under their belts and lets see who Leitao ends up signing.

ACCBBallFan
08-29-2007, 02:24 PM
I doubt the veracity of that article.

It's not that author did not know UVA placed tied for first in ACC last season, just that he immediately discounted that fact to make his premature assertion.

Then if you read further, no ACC team except Wake had even 3 commit in 2008 class so far.

UVA results last year were seriously aided by favorable ACC unbalanced schedule, but no way is Leitao on hot seat for at least a couple of years, and by then he may be Jim Calhoun's successor at UCONN.

Author could have acknowledged that Dave Leitao was ACC Coach of the year last year.

http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/030607aaj.html

Patrick Yates
08-30-2007, 10:23 AM
It is not just that UVA had a favorable schedule last year. Yes, that was a large part of the reason for their ACC co-championship season. Yes, last year was good and Leitao was duely rewarded. That is great. However, it should be noted that ALL, not some, or most, or the majority, but ALL the key players on that team were recruited by Gillem, not Leitao. The guy that followed Spurrier had a good couple of seasons before the Visor's kids worked their way out of shool.

Now Gillem's players are leaving. This year, UVA takes a big step back. I believe they will be in the middle third of the conference, and they will be at the bottom of that pack, completely out of postseason contention. Only Singletary, and that SF/SG whose name escapes me, were key players on last year's team. Reynolds will turn out to be a huge loss, as his outside shooting really kept opposing D's honest. This year, Singletary will again be great, but he is going to see more help defense becasue there are no other perimeter options for opposing D's to fear, nor many vaible options for him to pass the ball to inside.

If UVA takes a step back this year, what will happen when Singletary graduates this year? If UVA does not get Williams (only blinder wearing Wahoos would be delusional enough to think that any team but Tenn or Duke will get this kid), then UVA is almost entirely devoid of weapons next year. With WFU improving, it is not outside the realm of possibility that UVA is the worst team in conference next year, by a fairly wide margin.

Now, Leitao may be a great X's and O's coach, but that means nothing if you cannot get the players to seriously compete. Knight, arguably the best X's and O's mind in the modern era, saw his IU program collapse when his personality began to scare away elite recruits. Leitao, who is reportedly abrasive, may not have the necessary recruiting ability to sustain growth at a high major like UVA. This year and next year will tell.

If, and this is purely speculative, UVA nosedives next year, the seat will get warm. If Leitao fails to get recruits capable of delivering hope at the very least, then his seat has to get warm. Right now Leitao should feel no heat. But the stove is on. Heat builds over time, not instantaneously. Looking at the future, with his best [only decent or better] players ready to graduate, no replacements even on the horizon for said best players, lackluster recruiting, and the miss on a kid who was literally in their back yard, well, logic says this story probably won't have a happy ending.

Patrick Yates

ps I posted about this very topic months ago, and was roundly shouted down. Where is the DBR acknowledgement of my forward thinking?

vacal
08-30-2007, 10:49 AM
I stand by what I said earlier. Last year Leitao had one class he recruited on the team and 2 of the most likely to contribute were injured all season and another tore up a knee right after earning a starting slot. In fact, of Virginia's 12 scholarship players, 5 had significant injuries including 3 surgeries; I think an argument can be made that that fact goes a long way towards balancing out the favorable schedule. There was alot of speculation by people on this board concerning Leitao's "abusive" style. I believe some predicted significant defections. Not a single player has left the program and,by all knowledgeable accounts they appear to really like the coach and the program. While I agree that Williams will likely go elsewhere, Leitao is the only coach he has singled out as being a father figure. This year's incoming class will have to prove themselves on the court but, I believe that at least 2 of them will do just fine. By the way the name is DIANE.

jimsumner
08-30-2007, 11:19 AM
"Where is the DBR acknowledgement of my forward thinking?"

Patrick, when you can correctly spell Gillen's name and remember more than one returning UVA player, then you'll be a closer to expert status.

Gentle hint. Don't try so hard.

riverside6
08-30-2007, 11:46 AM
I stand by what I said earlier. Last year Leitao had one class he recruited on the team and 2 of the most likely to contribute were injured all season and another tore up a knee right after earning a starting slot. In fact, of Virginia's 12 scholarship players, 5 had significant injuries including 3 surgeries; I think an argument can be made that that fact goes a long way towards balancing out the favorable schedule. There was alot of speculation by people on this board concerning Leitao's "abusive" style. I believe some predicted significant defections. Not a single player has left the program and,by all knowledgeable accounts they appear to really like the coach and the program. While I agree that Williams will likely go elsewhere, Leitao is the only coach he has singled out as being a father figure. This year's incoming class will have to prove themselves on the court but, I believe that at least 2 of them will do just fine. By the way the name is DIANE.
I've been a big fan of Virginia's freshman class of a season ago. I think there are 2 solid players (Will Harris and Jamil Tucker) and one nice athlete (Solomon Tat).

Will Harris (http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/tt_player_page.asp?hPlayer=309) had some really nice moments during last season, and it wouldn't surprise me to see him average double figures in points this season.

Jamil Tucker (http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/tt_player_page.asp?hPlayer=313) is a nice shooter, and if he can hit the boards like the guy he will be replacing (Jason Cain), he could be a very good player. Ever since Shane came through Duke, I thought one of the most important and unstoppable players is a 4 that has three point range. Tucker is one of those players, but I question whether he is tough enough to hit the boards.

Soloman Tat (http://www.scacchoops.com/forms/tt_player_page.asp?hPlayer=312) could be a lock down defender, with his strength, athletic ability, and long arms, but never really got a chance last year. His offense appeared very raw, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a lot of minutes in Reynolds absence.

Let's keep in mind that recruiting rankings shouldn't always be relied on to determine whether or not a class is successful. The fact is that Maryland doesn't always have the best recruits, but the Terps go get guys that fit their system. Leitao has impressed me with this style and obviously his results, and I'm not sold that his recruiting tactics aren't working just yet.

vacal
08-30-2007, 12:44 PM
Unfortunately, Tat had a severe groin/hip injury that held him back all last year. The injury isn't healing well and there is speculation of a red shirt year for him.Harris had bone spurs removed from both ankles about a week prior to practice starting, he was nowhere near full strength.

riverside6
08-30-2007, 12:46 PM
I hadn't heard about Tat not recovering well, interesting.

Patrick Yates
08-30-2007, 01:13 PM
"Where is the DBR acknowledgement of my forward thinking?"

Patrick, when you can correctly spell Gillen's name and remember more than one returning UVA player, then you'll be a closer to expert status.

Gentle hint. Don't try so hard.

And I will not be using any of those Douchy emoticons (which should only be used by Tweens) to denote sarcasm. Among fellow Dukies, one would think that it would be easily recognizable.

Sorry for misspelling Gillen. I know that is the most egregious spelling/grammatical mistake seen on this board in many a day.

Patrick Yates

Indoor66
08-30-2007, 01:15 PM
It is not just that UVA had a favorable schedule last year. Yes, that was a large part of the reason for their ACC co-championship season. Yes, last year was good and Leitao was duely rewarded. That is great. However, it should be noted that ALL, not some, or most, or the majority, but ALL the key players on that team were recruited by Gillem, not Leitao. The guy that followed Spurrier had a good couple of seasons before the Visor's kids worked their way out of shool.

Now Gillem's players are leaving. This year, UVA takes a big step back. I believe they will be in the middle third of the conference, and they will be at the bottom of that pack, completely out of postseason contention. Only Singletary, and that SF/SG whose name escapes me, were key players on last year's team. Reynolds will turn out to be a huge loss, as his outside shooting really kept opposing D's honest. This year, Singletary will again be great, but he is going to see more help defense becasue there are no other perimeter options for opposing D's to fear, nor many vaible options for him to pass the ball to inside.

If UVA takes a step back this year, what will happen when Singletary graduates this year? If UVA does not get Williams (only blinder wearing Wahoos would be delusional enough to think that any team but Tenn or Duke will get this kid), then UVA is almost entirely devoid of weapons next year. With WFU improving, it is not outside the realm of possibility that UVA is the worst team in conference next year, by a fairly wide margin.

Now, Leitao may be a great X's and O's coach, but that means nothing if you cannot get the players to seriously compete. Knight, arguably the best X's and O's mind in the modern era, saw his IU program collapse when his personality began to scare away elite recruits. Leitao, who is reportedly abrasive, may not have the necessary recruiting ability to sustain growth at a high major like UVA. This year and next year will tell.

If, and this is purely speculative, UVA nosedives next year, the seat will get warm. If Leitao fails to get recruits capable of delivering hope at the very least, then his seat has to get warm. Right now Leitao should feel no heat. But the stove is on. Heat builds over time, not instantaneously. Looking at the future, with his best [only decent or better] players ready to graduate, no replacements even on the horizon for said best players, lackluster recruiting, and the miss on a kid who was literally in their back yard, well, logic says this story probably won't have a happy ending.

Patrick Yates

ps I posted about this very topic months ago, and was roundly shouted down. Where is the DBR acknowledgement of my forward thinking?

You tend to use so many words to say what you say that we are exhausted by the end of the post. WHEW! Congratulation on the forward thinking.

ACCBBallFan
08-30-2007, 08:23 PM
ALL the key players on that team were recruited by Gillen, not Leitao. The guy that followed Spurrier had a good couple of seasons before the Visor's kids worked their way out of school.

Now Gillen's players are leaving. This year, UVA takes a big step back. I believe they will be in the middle third of the conference, and they will be at the bottom of that pack, completely out of postseason contention. ...

If UVA takes a step back this year, what will happen when Singletary graduates this year? If UVA does not get Williams (only blinder wearing Wahoos would be delusional enough to think that any team but Tenn or Duke will get this kid), then UVA is almost entirely devoid of weapons next year. With WFU improving, it is not outside the realm of possibility that UVA is the worst team in conference next year, by a fairly wide margin.

Now, Leitao may be a great X's and O's coach, but that means nothing if you cannot get the players to seriously compete. Knight, arguably the best X's and O's mind in the modern era, saw his IU program collapse when his personality began to scare away elite recruits. Leitao, who is reportedly abrasive, may not have the necessary recruiting ability to sustain growth at a high major like UVA. This year and next year will tell.

If, and this is purely speculative, UVA nosedives next year, the seat will get warm. If Leitao fails to get recruits capable of delivering hope at the very least, then his seat has to get warm. Right now Leitao should feel no heat. But the stove is on. Heat builds over time, not instantaneously. Looking at the future, with his best [only decent or better] players ready to graduate, no replacements even on the horizon for said best players, lackluster recruiting, and the miss on a kid who was literally in their back yard, well, logic says this story probably won't have a happy ending.

Patrick Yates

ps I posted about this very topic months ago, and was roundly shouted down. Where is the DBR acknowledgement of my forward thinking?

Patrick, I agree with your prediction of UVA finsih this year, about 7-8 in ACC and NIT.

Perhaps the key word is capable recruits, because Leitao overachieved on number of recruits

Here’s the link

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/index.php?title=summer_hoops_preview_bottom_half&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1

“Oh, and you might notice that UVA has 14 players on scholarship. The NCAA says you can only have 13. Leitao says they'll fix the problem before the season starts. That means someone on the roster is going to have to pull a Wes Miller.”

Since red shirts do count against the 13 scholarship limit, somebody gonna have to pay their own freight or have their scholarship pulled which would probably mean they sit out a year and go elsewhere.



Unfortunately, Tat had a severe groin/hip injury that held him back all last year. The injury isn't healing well and there is speculation of a red shirt year for him.Harris had bone spurs removed from both ankles about a week prior to practice starting, he was nowhere near full strength.

So even if Tat does have to red shirt, that does not solve Leitao's and UVA problem of trying to squeeze 14 guys into a 13 scholarhsip limit.

With Adrian Joseph, Ryan Pettinella, Seasn Singletary and Tunji Sorroye all being seniors this year, UVA does have room to bring in Elliot Williams and a couple more in class of 2008.

Capn Poptart
08-30-2007, 09:13 PM
It is not just that UVA had a favorable schedule last year. Yes, that was a large part of the reason for their ACC co-championship season.

The ACC champion is the tournament champion. As much as it pains me to say it, the ACC champ was Carolina.

JasonEvans
09-13-2007, 08:57 PM
Seeing as we have a Virginia fan visiting us a bit today, I was wondering what VaGentleman05 thinks this thread.

--Jason "beyond Singletary, is Virginia really barren of hoops talent?" Evans

dukemomLA
09-14-2007, 02:44 AM
I actually think DL at Virginia is a good coach -- but...probably not a good recruiter, which is crucial. Since assts. seem to be important in that area, perhaps he needs to re-think his supporting staff??

riverside6
09-14-2007, 06:47 AM
I actually think DL at Virginia is a good coach -- but...probably not a good recruiter, which is crucial. Since assts. seem to be important in that area, perhaps he needs to re-think his supporting staff??
Virginia has made a change on their coaching staff (http://www.theacc.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/090407aab.html) as Drew Diener has moved from being Director of Men's Basketball Operations to an assistant on Leitao's staff.

Drew is the cousin of Travis, who played for Marquette and now plays for the Pacers.

ACCBBallFan
09-14-2007, 10:10 AM
VA Gentleman or anybody - Heard yet how Leitao is solving his current year problem of 14 scholarship players?

vacal
09-14-2007, 10:53 AM
Ryan Pettinella, a transfer from Penn. is paying his way this year. When he came it was made clear that he could have an available scholarship on a year by year basis. He blew out a knee mid-way through the season last year and it's unclear how well he's recovered.

Cavlaw
09-14-2007, 11:25 AM
And I will not be using any of those Douchy emoticons (which should only be used by Tweens) to denote sarcasm. Among fellow Dukies, one would think that it would be easily recognizable.

Sorry for misspelling Gillen. I know that is the most egregious spelling/grammatical mistake seen on this board in many a day.

Patrick Yates
Actually, emoticons were developed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Fahlman) to allow grown-up, academic types to distinguish between seriousness and jokes, because it can sometimes be hard to do on a message board.

3rdgenDukie
09-14-2007, 11:29 AM
While Leitao did well last year, it is entirely within the realm of possibility to think he will be on the hot seat soon. Reynolds and Singletary WERE the team. One is gone, and the other will be soon. As well as the most reliable supporting players. His recruits from last year may have been hurt, but it is hugely questionable whether they will ever be key players on a successful ACC team. IMO, they will be mediocre this year, and dreadful next year - EVEN with E. Williams.

Gillen and Jones both recruited extremely well, especially early in their tenures. It is very disconcerting to UVa fans (and I know a lot of big-time ones here in Richmond) that Leitao has not secured a single big-name player. Right now DL's situation reminds me of Weber's at Illinois. Great overachieving year but storm clouds gathering. Weber has not been able to secure talent following the loss of Self's players, and it is going to bite him hard. Frankly, I give Leitao a 10% chance of lasting more than four more years.

vacal
09-14-2007, 11:46 AM
All I can say without repeating myself is that I disagree. This conversation will be much more meaningfull at the end of the season when one of us will be eating crow and the other will be crowing.

3rdgenDukie
09-14-2007, 01:32 PM
Actually, this year is fairly meaningless, unless you mean recruiting-wise. Singletary is the type of sublime talent that can lift a poor team to decent results by himself - sort of like Grant Hill in '94. Problem is what happens when he leaves - sort of like Grant Hill and '95 (shiver). There isn't a player within miles of his talent lurking anywhere on the UVa roster for the foreseeable future. Hell, right now there isn't anyone on the Duke roster with his talent.

Don't get me wrong, I hope for nothing but the best for the Hoos. I went to B-school there and my wife was an undergrad. I go to JPJ regularly (BTW, its the only venue I've ever been to that come close to rivaling CIS). It's just that things unravel very quickly in CBB when the talent pipeline dries up. Every fan I know is getting extremely concerned about that, and I see why. I hope I'm wrong and the Hoos do well this year and Leitao either gets or develops the talent to succeed beyond that.

jimsumner
09-14-2007, 02:01 PM
"Actually, emoticons were developed to allow grown-up, academic types to distinguish between seriousness and jokes, because it can sometimes be hard to do on a message board."

Oh cavlaw, don't go all Douchy on us.

:)
:(
:o
:p

VAGentleman05
09-14-2007, 07:02 PM
Ryan Pettinella, a transfer from Penn. is paying his way this year. When he came it was made clear that he could have an available scholarship on a year by year basis. He blew out a knee mid-way through the season last year and it's unclear how well he's recovered.

Yep, both Pettinella and Calvin Baker are paying their way this year.

As for Leitao's recruiting, I've been a little disappointed with the end results (losing Patterson and Davis, especially), but I'm not ready to panic yet. I actually think last year's class (Harris, Tucker, & Tat) will turn out to be pretty solid, and I think you'll be surprised at the guys who are coming in this year (Jones, Scott, Farrakhan, and Zeglinski--who comes from the same HS as Singletary).

What needs to happen, of course, is for Dave to land a guy like Williams in order to really turn the corner, but in the meantime we're in the running for some other good athletes in the 09 class--Sylven Landesberg, John Brandenburg, & DeShawn Painter.

ACCBBallFan
09-15-2007, 08:39 AM
Ryan Pettinella, a transfer from Penn. is paying his way this year. When he came it was made clear that he could have an available scholarship on a year by year basis. He blew out a knee mid-way through the season last year and it's unclear how well he's recovered.
Thanks for the information. Sounds identical to the Wes Miller situation other than the unfortunate knee injury.

From an ACC perspective, I hope Calhoun continues to coach at UCONN so UVA does not lose Leitao as his ultimate successor, and that UVA does start to bring in more top talent.

The facilities cannot hurt the cause.

VAGentleman05
09-27-2007, 03:39 PM
Leitao just got his first verbal of the 08 class today--6'6" guard Sylven Landesberg (http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=41970&sport=2) out of Holy Cross in Queens. He's a Rivals 4-star prospect, and hopefully his signing will help us with a number of others guys who still have us on their list!

Ignatius07
09-27-2007, 06:04 PM
There's the big-time recruit people have been calling for, a top-50 prospect on various recruiting services IIRC. If UVA manages to land E. Williams (which I doubt, primarily because it seems he's keeping them in his top 4 only because they were the first to recruit him), hysteria might break out in Charlottesville.

Bob Green
09-28-2007, 02:01 AM
There's the big-time recruit people have been calling for, a top-50 prospect on various recruiting services IIRC. If UVA manages to land E. Williams (which I doubt, primarily because it seems he's keeping them in his top 4 only because they were the first to recruit him), hysteria might break out in Charlottesville.

Elliot Williams has stated that academics are very important to him. Therefore, I believe his top two schools are Duke and Virginia. I see Tennessee and Memphis as being on the outside looking in.

JasonEvans
09-28-2007, 07:40 AM
Leitao just got his first verbal of the 08 class today--6'6" guard Sylven Landesberg (http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=41970&sport=2) out of Holy Cross in Queens. He's a Rivals 4-star prospect, and hopefully his signing will help us with a number of others guys who still have us on their list!

Hmmm, Landesberg is a nice recruit... who just happens to play the exact same position as Elliot Williams. While there is certainly plenty of room for additional players and playing time at UVa, I sorta wonder what this says about UVA's confidence in landing Elliot Williams.

--Jason "I guess you can always use 2 wings" Evans

VAGentleman05
09-28-2007, 12:43 PM
Hmmm, Landesberg is a nice recruit... who just happens to play the exact same position as Elliot Williams. While there is certainly plenty of room for additional players and playing time at UVa, I sorta wonder what this says about UVA's confidence in landing Elliot Williams.

--Jason "I guess you can always use 2 wings" Evans

Actually, I think SL really wants to run the point some in college, so I think you'll see him in more of a hybrid role at UVA. And yes, of course you can use 2 wings of this caliber!

ACCBBallFan
09-28-2007, 02:56 PM
Actually, I think SL really wants to run the point some in college, so I think you'll see him in more of a hybrid role at UVA. And yes, of course you can use 2 wings of this caliber!Gotta agree with the VAGentleman on this one. If they are both combo guards, why couldn't they be played in combo, assuming of course Ellliot Williams chooses UVA over the two TN in-state teams and Duke.

I always discount the talk about academics being important, nice talk and all that, but rarely the deciding factor.

In Duke's case, chances of landing Elliot Williams are totally dependent on whether he is seeking instant gratification starting or looking at the bigger picture over a longer time horizon.

He will be a fine addition to whichever of the four schools he chooses. Being an ACC Fan, I hope it is Duke or UVA.