View Full Version : The other "shoe" about to drop?
During his recruitment, I recall there being some mention of Andrew Wiggins having ties to Adidas, and that Kansas had an "in" as an Adidas school.
Funny this issue should pop up before Wiggins has even played a game at Kansas:
"no meetings or official offers can be made until Wiggins declares for the 2014 draft after his season at Kansas. ...
... 'I'm hearing from people at Kansas that he's got a $180 million offer supposedly coming from Adidas,' a source close to Wiggins' inner circle said."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24088008/report-adidas-ready-to-throw-180-million-at-andrew-wiggins
I find it "interesting" that the information came from "people at Kansas." Could this be a clever way around the no "no meetings or official offers?"
wilko
10-15-2013, 07:28 PM
So the school IS the agent?
TexHawk
10-15-2013, 09:23 PM
During his recruitment, I recall there being some mention of Andrew Wiggins having ties to Adidas, and that Kansas had an "in" as an Adidas school.
You've got that backwards. Wiggins has an "in" (whatever that means) with Nike. KU was the only school on his list that is not a Nike school, and the fact that KU is an Adidas school was actually a point of contention for him. He got through it (obviously).
You've got that backwards. Wiggins has an "in" (whatever that means) with Nike. KU was the only school on his list that is not a Nike school, and the fact that KU is an Adidas school was actually a point of contention for him. He got through it (obviously).
So we're now beginning to see that Adidas (via KU) won the bidding, er, recruiting war?
MattC09
10-15-2013, 09:42 PM
Some "notorious" Kansas associates, Dana and David Pump, allegedly have ties to Adidas. They were involved in a ticket scandal with Kansas a few years ago.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2125179
TexHawk
10-15-2013, 11:04 PM
Some "notorious" Kansas associates, Dana and David Pump, allegedly have ties to Adidas. They were involved in a ticket scandal with Kansas a few years ago.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=2125179
Is there some kind of weird roundabout allegation here? The Pump brothers allegedly led (or were minimally involved in, depends on who you trust) the ticket scandal that literally stole something between 2 and 5 million dollars from the Kansas athletic department. 5 people are in jail over it. KU was the victim.
Duke79UNLV77
10-15-2013, 11:26 PM
Is there some kind of weird roundabout allegation here? The Pump brothers allegedly led (or were minimally involved in, depends on who you trust) the ticket scandal that literally stole something between 2 and 5 million dollars from the Kansas athletic department. 5 people are in jail over it. KU was the victim.
Don't know that it's that clear. A big chunk of money was made after Kansas lost in the national semifinals and there were unwanted tickets. There are a lot of unanswered questions. Like why did two brothers in California sponsor an AAU team in Kansas and send so many of their players to KU, while making so much money through tickets that came through KU?
sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ys-kutickets052610
UrinalCake
10-16-2013, 12:46 AM
I don't see any foul play here at all. Adidas is planning on offering this contract to him when he becomes eligible (i.e. is no longer a student). I'm sure it's not an uncommon thing; only the amount of this particular contract is noteworthy. Had LeBron gone to college, I'm sure Nike and Adidas would have launched a preemptive bidding war to sign him as well.
This does bring up an interesting question though... would it make more sense for Wiggins to simply take the money now and spend the next several months training on his own, rather than playing college ball? A similar argument was made for JaDaveon Clowney, though of course the injury risk is much higher in football.
TexHawk
10-16-2013, 09:13 AM
Don't know that it's that clear. A big chunk of money was made after Kansas lost in the national semifinals and there were unwanted tickets. There are a lot of unanswered questions. Like why did two brothers in California sponsor an AAU team in Kansas and send so many of their players to KU, while making so much money through tickets that came through KU?
sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ys-kutickets052610
To be clear, this wasn't an NCAA investigation that was swept under the rug for curious reasons. This was the FBI and IRS setting up shop in Lawrence for over a year. If a smoking gun exists where that money was getting funneled back to KU somehow, those two groups didn't find anything.
"So many of their players to Kansas"? I will let Bill Self (http://www2.kusports.com/news/2010/jun/02/self-aau-players-arent-funneled-ku/) take that one. Of the players in question, one is Bill Self's son, another is the son of a former KU player, and 4 others grew up playing high school basketball in Kansas. I know it's hard to imagine, but sometimes kids who grow up in Kansas actually have a desire to play for Kansas. (The two others were Roy recruits over 10 years ago.)
I am also eagerly awaiting the expose on the Missouri Tigers, whose Big12 Tournament winning team in 2012 featured 5 guys from the same AAU club. Trust me, I would much rather have had the Pump Bros funnel Marcus Denmon to KU than Connor Teahan.
loran16
10-16-2013, 09:16 AM
During his recruitment, I recall there being some mention of Andrew Wiggins having ties to Adidas, and that Kansas had an "in" as an Adidas school.
Funny this issue should pop up before Wiggins has even played a game at Kansas:
"no meetings or official offers can be made until Wiggins declares for the 2014 draft after his season at Kansas. ...
... 'I'm hearing from people at Kansas that he's got a $180 million offer supposedly coming from Adidas,' a source close to Wiggins' inner circle said."
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/24088008/report-adidas-ready-to-throw-180-million-at-andrew-wiggins
I find it "interesting" that the information came from "people at Kansas." Could this be a clever way around the no "no meetings or official offers?"
The answer is no. Certain clothes manufacturers have big influence on the AAU circuit and kids are often talked about only having Nike or Adidas, or say Under Armor, schools on their list. That said, these companies are very smart, and do not give any money to the kids until it's legal - but through AAU connections, directing the kids to schools already wearing their apparel gives them free marketing.
ChillinDuke
10-16-2013, 09:16 AM
I don't see any foul play here at all. Adidas is planning on offering this contract to him when he becomes eligible (i.e. is no longer a student). I'm sure it's not an uncommon thing; only the amount of this particular contract is noteworthy. Had LeBron gone to college, I'm sure Nike and Adidas would have launched a preemptive bidding war to sign him as well.
This does bring up an interesting question though... would it make more sense for Wiggins to simply take the money now and spend the next several months training on his own, rather than playing college ball? A similar argument was made for JaDaveon Clowney, though of course the injury risk is much higher in football.
This further supports the argument that these kids aren't required to go to college. They choose to go. If Wiggins has money on the table right now, that he can't accept until after school - and an obscene amount of money at that - well, he can absolutely opt out of college, take it, train with it, and go to the pros in next year's draft.
What's the negative? Well, he'd lose the eyeballs watching him in college in primetime games on primetime channels and in primetime arenas further boosting his brand. It's feasible he may even lose a draft spot or two for this reason. He'd also lose, theoretically, top notch competition to keep him learning/growing on the court against actual players - something many on this board put emphasis on when we get into the all-too-often short bench discussions.
- Chillin
This further supports the argument that these kids aren't required to go to college. They choose to go. If Wiggins has money on the table right now, that he can't accept until after school - and an obscene amount of money at that - well, he can absolutely opt out of college, take it, train with it, and go to the pros in next year's draft.
What's the negative? Well, he'd lose the eyeballs watching him in college in primetime games on primetime channels and in primetime arenas further boosting his brand. It's feasible he may even lose a draft spot or two for this reason. He'd also lose, theoretically, top notch competition to keep him learning/growing on the court against actual players - something many on this board put emphasis on when we get into the all-too-often short bench discussions.
- Chillin
From the advertiser's standpoint, is it worth having him forego his year at KU to start the contract now? Is it better to have the extra splash now, at risk of him dropping a spot or two in the draft and losing a year of top NCAA coaching and competition? He could play in the NBA development league and get pro coaching and conditioning.
Stern says the dev league provides a "better education:"
http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/david-stern-criticizes-ncaa-101013
This further supports the argument that these kids aren't required to go to college. They choose to go. If Wiggins has money on the table right now, that he can't accept until after school - and an obscene amount of money at that - well, he can absolutely opt out of college, take it, train with it, and go to the pros in next year's draft.
What's the negative? Well, he'd lose the eyeballs watching him in college in primetime games on primetime channels and in primetime arenas further boosting his brand. It's feasible he may even lose a draft spot or two for this reason. He'd also lose, theoretically, top notch competition to keep him learning/growing on the court against actual players - something many on this board put emphasis on when we get into the all-too-often short bench discussions.
- Chillin
Kids don't have a real choice. If they did have a real choice, many would be opting for something other than college. That is proven by the fact that, when they had the choice to go directly to the NBA, many kids eagerly jumped at the chance (some quite successfully, others less so).
As long as we are talking about this subject, we might as well deal with reality. And the reality is that the route to the NBA for American highschool basketball players is through college.
I don't see any foul play here at all. Adidas is planning on offering this contract to him when he becomes eligible (i.e. is no longer a student).
Agreed. In fact, I don't see anything at all here. Is there a real, enforceable offer on the table? I doubt it. If Wiggins stinks up the court this year, does anything think that he will be doing the Scrooge McDuck with Adidas' money next year?
MarkD83
10-16-2013, 12:54 PM
This further supports the argument that these kids aren't required to go to college. They choose to go. If Wiggins has money on the table right now, that he can't accept until after school - and an obscene amount of money at that - well, he can absolutely opt out of college, take it, train with it, and go to the pros in next year's draft.
What's the negative? Well, he'd lose the eyeballs watching him in college in primetime games on primetime channels and in primetime arenas further boosting his brand. It's feasible he may even lose a draft spot or two for this reason. He'd also lose, theoretically, top notch competition to keep him learning/growing on the court against actual players - something many on this board put emphasis on when we get into the all-too-often short bench discussions.
- Chillin
This comment brings up an interesting point that I don't hear being made when it comes to paying athletes. How much is it worth to them that they get this type of "brand building" for free? So a scholarship athlete in football or basketball gets:
1) Free tuition - which may just be a university moving money from on account to another
2) Free marketing.....
3) Accommodations at 5 star hotels......
4) Shoes and clothing......
I am in favor of having the athletic departments having some discretionary funds so that the athletes can fly home for the holidays and have some "free time" money (movies etc.), but a paycheck on top of what is listed.....
ChillinDuke
10-16-2013, 01:59 PM
Kids don't have a real choice. If they did have a real choice, many would be opting for something other than college. That is proven by the fact that, when they had the choice to go directly to the NBA, many kids eagerly jumped at the chance (some quite successfully, others less so).
As long as we are talking about this subject, we might as well deal with reality. And the reality is that the route to the NBA for American highschool basketball players is through college.
I don't know the stats offhand, but what's your definition of "many"? By percentages, it's obviously quite small. Regardless, the NBA has imposed a barrier to entry. Why is this consistently thrown into the conversation as if it's the NCAA's problem? As an employer, the NBA said it won't accept any "resumes" unless they are one year removed from high school. One year removed from high school does not install a requirement to go to college. There are unquestionably (and rather obviously) other choices that these prospective employees (read: high school basketball players) could do with their time. We've hashed out these options time and time again - and a few players have even gone these alternative routes, further exemplifying that there are choices out there.
IMO, the reason they choose college (almost unanimously) screams that there is nothing fatally wrong with the system. If there was something fatally wrong, it seems to me it would be relatively simple to create an alternative for the "sure-fire", "can't miss" prospects that would have jumped straight to the NBA 10 years ago (or however long before the 1-year rule came about). How quickly we forget the fact that "sure-fire", "can't miss" prospects that jumped straight to the NBA had so much variance in their readiness/abilities (read: risk to their potential employer) that these employers instituted the barrier entry to begin with.
An alternative to the college concept is not clearly a good move (for many of the same reasons that kids jumping straight to the NBA was not clearly a good move for NBA teams, collectively). There are pros and there are cons - but it is clearly gray enough that no one is willing to fork up the time and money to engineer a potentially lucrative alternative - because make no mistake, it's about dollars and cents at the end of the day.
From the advertiser's standpoint, is it worth having him forego his year at KU to start the contract now? Is it better to have the extra splash now, at risk of him dropping a spot or two in the draft and losing a year of top NCAA coaching and competition? He could play in the NBA development league and get pro coaching and conditioning.
Really good question here that, I feel, gets to the core of the argument. Which came first: the chicken or the egg? Which came first: Adidas' (strong monetary) interest in signing Wiggins now or Wiggins (presumably) playing great at Kansas and declaring for the draft likely as a #1 (or top 3) pick? When is Adidas' money coming on the timeline of a basketball players' life? Is Kansas creating that value to Adidas by basically promoting Wiggins all year in games / coaching him / developing him strength-wise and character wise / etc? Would that money be the same now and after this season? If not, is it a significant difference?
It's all very hard to tell without working for a company like Adidas. If Andrew Wiggins can get 180 million dollars today and never set foot on campus, well then clearly he has an option other than college. But if that amount of money is contingent on a year of college and he can get, for example, 50 million dollars today in an endorsement deal and 180 million dollars after this season from an endorsement deal - then it's going to be hard to sell me that the value of college for these kids is "only" a scholarship/coaching/etc.
But we may never know the real details in these scenarios. Very interesting to me though.
Did I just hijack the thread? [runs and hides]
- Chillin
UrinalCake
10-16-2013, 02:00 PM
Add to that list:
- free medical care (in the case of Elton and Kyrie, they literally received world class treatment on their respective injuries)
- free meals prepared by professional chefs
- free coaching and training
- free rental cars*
* (UNC athletes only)
FerryFor50
10-16-2013, 02:03 PM
When the other shoe drops, it will be ADIDAS.*
* This post sponsored by ADIDAS.
lotusland
10-17-2013, 08:21 PM
This comment brings up an interesting point that I don't hear being made when it comes to paying athletes. How much is it worth to them that they get this type of "brand building" for free? So a scholarship athlete in football or basketball gets:
1) Free tuition - which may just be a university moving money from on account to another
2) Free marketing.....
3) Accommodations at 5 star hotels......
4) Shoes and clothing......
I am in favor of having the athletic departments having some discretionary funds so that the athletes can fly home for the holidays and have some "free time" money (movies etc.), but a paycheck on top of what is listed.....
apparently these kids are brain washed into choosing year of exploitation in college rather being paid their true market value in Europe or the NBADL. It's truly diabolical how NCAA institutions are able to pull that off.
TexHawk
10-18-2013, 09:29 AM
Er, nevermind (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/17/that-reported-shoe-endorsement-offer-for-andrew-wiggins-was-a-hoax/related/).
sagegrouse
10-18-2013, 09:32 AM
Er, nevermind (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/17/that-reported-shoe-endorsement-offer-for-andrew-wiggins-was-a-hoax/related/).
A hoax says NBC Sports. -- sage
FerryFor50
10-18-2013, 10:28 AM
Er, nevermind (http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/17/that-reported-shoe-endorsement-offer-for-andrew-wiggins-was-a-hoax/related/).
Riiiight.
Not buying that as a "hoax." Likely more like, "this opened a can of worms. Let's close it quickly."
The equivalent of "my Twitter was hacked."
Riiiight.
Not buying that as a "hoax." Likely more like, "this opened a can of worms. Let's close it quickly."
The equivalent of "my Twitter was hacked."
The "offer" was denied. No date on the supposed offer, no signature, clearly not binding. Would have jeopardized his eligibility.
The initial story is that Adidas was "prepared" to offer that amount. That numbers were discussed is not denied.
FerryFor50
10-18-2013, 10:38 AM
The "offer" was denied. No date on the supposed offer, no signature, clearly not binding. Would have jeopardized his eligibility.
The initial story is that Adidas was "prepared" to offer that amount. That numbers were discussed is not denied.
That, I will buy. I never thought he had signed anything. I always thought it was one of those verbal things. "Come to KU and you won't be sorry! Don't go to a Nike school. They won't give you the $$ we're offering..."
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