This is so incredibly uncool that i just don't know what to say....

[moonpie23]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1931lmelssqvfjpg/original.jpg


how did this picture happen?

[sagegrouse]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1931lmelssqvfjpg/original.jpg


how did this picture happen?

Oh, yeah! Blue Devils at the indoor range at West Point with fake weapons that use lasers to simulate shooting and measure accuracy. You can take Coach K out of West Point, but you can't take West Point out of Coach K.

sagegrouse

[Go 2 Hell Carolina]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1931lmelssqvfjpg/original.jpg


how did this picture happen?

The kids are in a controlled environment and getting fun training....have zero problems with this pic

[dukelifer]

The kids are in a controlled environment and getting fun training....have zero problems with this pic

In context it is probably okay- but it is not a great image - posing with the Duke gear on. It will be misused by others. It is out there and the team will need to deal with the fall out. As a fan, I would have preferred that it stayed in house.

[wilko]

In context it is probably okay- but it is not a great image - posing with the Duke gear on. It will be misused by others. It is out there and the team will need to deal with the fall out. As a fan, I would have preferred that it stayed in house.

I think its OK to be a lil bit intimidating. When Semi or Amile says "I got something for you"... Its OK to keep them guessing.
Certainly is a contrast to the Choir Boy image... Im OK with it.

[OldPhiKap]

Looks photoshopped to me -- is that real?

[tommy]

Can't stand the perpetuation of the idea that violence and arming oneself to the teeth confers some kind of cool.

And coming from Duke, it's more likely to be ridiculed as something akin to this (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bjKg7cNMRQE/TyAmSnuAhHI/AAAAAAAAARU/BWRH8NFp0Es/s1600/michael_dukakis.jpg&imgrefurl=http://nonstop80s.blogspot.com/2012/01/michael-dukakis-and-tank.html&h=417&w=544&sz=48&tbnid=hWMNi89FiKPODM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=118&zoom=1&usg=__CdX9s7bgU2_4OEWf5IYBj_vWFQs=&docid=-CZk2MkzpWjxpM&sa=X&ei=nH5cUtjUDoGeiQKEkoBw&ved=0CDEQ9QEwAg).

[DukeFanSince1990]

I am ok with it. They are not posing as "ganstas" but "soldiers". And soldiers should be admired. That is what they are doing, much like we would stand in CIS and pretend to shoot the game winning shot.

[FerryFor50]

I am ok with it. They are not posing as "ganstas" but "soldiers". And soldiers should be admired. That is what they are doing, much like we would stand in CIS and pretend to shoot the game winning shot.

I don't call what Dre or Josh Hairston are doing "posing as soldiers."

[Kedsy]

This was linked on the main DBR page, I think yesterday. Deadspin had it and appeared to try to make it a thing, but then when they found out what it really was they knew they wouldn't get any traction so they dropped it.

Nothing to see here.

[wilko]

I like a "Lighten up Francis" served with a side of Army training, Sir (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHcMxOJ5BN4)

[DukeFanSince1990]

This was linked on the main DBR page, I think yesterday. Deadspin had it and appeared to try to make it a thing, but then when they found out what it really was they knew they wouldn't get any traction so they dropped it.

Nothing to see here.

Well oddly enough it has found traction.....here. I put the picture on my facebook and all my military friends thought it was great. They even recognized the lasers on the end of the rifles.

[Dukehky]

Dre is holding up two peace signs though so it's all good!!!

This is kind of a non-issue to me. I'd prefer if Duke didn't kind of gloat over their awesome trips though. I don't really get how it's allowed, but do what you can do fellas.

[Newton_14]

Oh, yeah! Blue Devils at the indoor range at West Point with fake weapons that use lasers to simulate shooting and measure accuracy. You can take Coach K out of West Point, but you can't take West Point out of Coach K.

sagegrouse

Agree. I have no issue at all with the pic.

[Bob Green]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1931lmelssqvfjpg/original.jpg


how did this picture happen?

It is called Freedom!

[mattman91]

"semi" automatic?

[jay]

It's not politically correct. A bunch of kids mugging for the camera with fake guns in their hands. That's it.

If you're offended by it, it's because you choose to be offended by it.

[JayBean]

It's not politically correct. A bunch of kids mugging for the camera with fake guns in their hands. That's it.

If you're offended by it, it's because you choose to be offended by it.

I'm only offended that Semi is the only one showing proper gun safety etiquette (finger off the trigger).

[subzero02]

My money is on Andre being the most accurate from long range...

[UrinalCake]

As soon as they saw the camera man coming they all should have thrown their guns out the window.

[Turtleboy]

If you're offended by it, it's because you choose to be offended by it.
I'll keep that in mind. I'd love to be able to quote you on that.

[jdk]

Very uncool. Coach K isn't teaching the four weapons safety rules?

KEEP YOUR FINGER STRAIGHT AND OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY FIRE

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2556798/Marine-Corps-Common-Skills-Handbook-Mccs1b

joe

[G man]

Not really sure what the problem is here except for the obvious issues others have raised about proper gun safety. Last I checked holding a gun did not violate any laws or amazingly any NCAA rules (don't quote me on the ncaa rules though those people are crazy).

[subzero02]

I like the picture... I am sure K made the entire event a good bonding experience

[Duvall]

Very uncool. Coach K isn't teaching the four weapons safety rules?

KEEP YOUR FINGER STRAIGHT AND OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE READY FIRE

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2556798/Marine-Corps-Common-Skills-Handbook-Mccs1b

joe

Although if you aren't planning on handling a military rifle any time soon, it may be more important to look like a cool action hero.

[DevilYouthCoach]

It is called Freedom!

To me it makes our guys look really silly.

[Clay Feet POF]

No positives here only a risk of negatives. Would the comments be the same if it was NC or Kentucky?

[Dukeface88]

I'm only offended that Semi is the only one showing proper gun safety etiquette (finger off the trigger).

Well, he is the one who runs the gun show.

Also, West Point is slipping. When I went there for a summer camp they let us fire howiters.

[BD80]

No positives here only a risk of negatives. Would the comments be the same if it was NC or Kentucky?

How about even more exposure on a national level?

This is kind of like a well written novel with salacious cover art. The photo isn't what it might seem to some, but draws attention to the fact that the team is doing something no other team is doing - a very special field trip for practice. Even when other coaches copy the practice - and they will - they will NOT be able to copy all that Duke Elevate entails.

The photo draws attention to the fact that Coach K is an innovator who makes the college experience for his players the best that it can be, and to the fact that Duke can provide benefits no other school can.

[Son of Jarhead]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke-to-use-photo-of-hoops-players-with-guns-as-teaching-moment/12994200/

[gep]

So... in a convoluted way, this becomes a "teaching moment" of social media, perceptions, etc. Maybe a good outcome? Maybe a good outcome for more than just Duke. (glass half-full look at it)

[BigWayne]

So... in a convoluted way, this becomes a "teaching moment" of social media, perceptions, etc. Maybe a good outcome? Maybe a good outcome for more than just Duke. (glass half-full look at it)

I would hope it becomes a teaching moment for the school administration to explain to the usual suspects how being offended at the drop of a hat or the snap of a pic is unacceptable behavior also. Not holding my breath though.

[BigWayne]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1931lmelssqvfjpg/original.jpg


how did this picture happen?

I guess the team did not have it's PC "watcher" along for the trip. They might have also taken an airplane to get there instead of an electric powered bus.

[hillsborodevil]

No positives here only a risk of negatives. Would the comments be the same if it was NC or Kentucky?

Well, the pic of UNC would've been shot/taken on 15-501 holding a real gun in one hand and a bag of weed in the other. Kentucky players would be using a Laettner photo as their target.

[Marc81]

As soon as they saw the camera man coming they all should have thrown their guns out the window.

Nice!!

[jv001]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1931lmelssqvfjpg/original.jpg


how did this picture happen?

pj hairston furnished the weapons.

[moonpie23]

well, i can see that i'm in the minority on this. I guess it's just been a long time since we've "shared" on the old PPB. :(


This is what we want that 8 yr old kid that's dreaming of going to duke to see?

Let's see how"positive" this imagery is regarded outside of the duke faithful.....then we can just blame it on the media...

[jipops]

I'm kind of with moonpie on this. I'm not offended by it at all, but as Adam Gold stated there could have been a little more forethought before taking the pictures. Maybe have a few actual cadets in the picture with them to give it more context. I love that the Duke players had this exercise at West Point, I think it's terrific and gives them a glimpse of how and what these cadets train for. But taking pictures like this can glamorize something else. This is a basketball team and the goal of elevate is to connect and realize they are representing something greater than themselves. Though there are obvious similarities as far as being a team, this is not a team of men putting themselves into position to defend our country. And with the obsession with guns this country already has, the pictures are too easily and wrongly interpreted to imply something else. I just would have expected better judgement here.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Uncool is the "nicest" adjective that I'd use to describe this.

Can't believe that this picture got out. Nothing good will happen because of this.

[CLW]

Personally, I hope the team poster this year is the entire team holding ARs but that's just me.

The kids were having fun at West Point with fake weapons. The brave men and women that serve this country use real guns like the ones in the picture to protect us from harm.

To spin this as some sort of endorsement of violence is nonsense.

[fgb]

a couple have folks have mentioned this picture as not being "politically correct"; i don't think political correctness has anything to do with the photo.

it does seem to me that the photo was a bad idea, simply because it's going to potentially invite political discussion of the sort that really has nothing to do with basketball.

[53n206]

Camera man? Anyone with i-phone(etc) could be photographer.

[Lar77]

For the past two years, we have had our coach take his team to share a part of his past - first at Fort Bragg and then at USMA - as part of team building. To read anything into this photo as "uncool" or "cool" is to inappropriately argue your personal political views. This isn't a poster supposedly promoting gun violence. It's not a photo showing them aiming their rifles at Ramses. To my knowledge, it's not trying to promote any point of view (other than handle your rifle safely with finger off the trigger). As another poster said "Lighten up Francis."

[jay]

Nothing good will happen because of this.

Take out "good" from your sentence and we're in agreement.

[sagegrouse]

For the past two years, we have had our coach take his team to share a part of his past - first at Fort Bragg and then at USMA - as part of team building. To read anything into this photo as "uncool" or "cool" is to inappropriately argue your personal political views. This isn't a poster supposedly promoting gun violence. It's not a photo showing them aiming their rifles at Ramses. To my knowledge, it's not trying to promote any point of view (other than handle your rifle safely with finger off the trigger). As another poster said "Lighten up Francis."


Take out "good" from your sentence and we're in agreement.

We are playing "counter to type" as Hollywood casting directors used to say. Works for me. -- sagegrouse

[oldnavy]

I kind of like pictures of both Duke stuff and guns, here's one for you to enjoy that I stumbled across from my past.
3623

[cspan37421]

To spin this as some sort of endorsement of violence is nonsense.

I respectfully suggest you're missing the point. The context of the picture is not at all apparent within the picture. This thing can just circulate and people will add their own caption or explanatory story to go with it. The WRAL story makes this point exactly ... and that such "spreading viral" did happen.

I totally agree with jipops, having some instructors or cadets in the picture showing them how to hold them or just to pose with them would make it clear what's going on. You don't even know where they are, or with whom. To be clear, I'm totally fine that they went through the exercise. But if you're in the public eye, and you have a lot of people wanting to see you fail, you need to have forethought and wisdom in not only what you do, but how it looks.

The upside is that WRAL story did get a chance to show that Coach K was taking the guys back to his alma mater, and the guys can talk to recruits about what a great trip it was and how Coach K really treats them well, teaches them well, and coaches them well.

I find it pretty interesting that Coach K took them to West Point. Has he kept much connection with West Point in the last 33 years? I think his son-in-law Chris Spatola played guard there, but other than that, I am unaware of a continuing relationship he's had with the USMA. It's kind of neat to see him back there, I wonder if it's been a long time, and how it made him feel. I didn't know that Pete Gaudet and Dino Gaudio had coached there too. Interesting.

[jay]

I respectfully suggest you're missing the point. The context of the picture is not at all apparent within the picture. This thing can just circulate and people will add their own caption or explanatory story to go with it.

Right there you've identified one of the central problems with our society. Instead of stopping to say "hey, I wonder why a bunch of basketball players are holding guns," most people go into screaming howler monkey mode.

That's on the screaming howler monkeys.

It's akin to someone sharing one of those ridiculously false chain messages on Facebook. If you're too lazy to actually take the time to look and see if the latest chain message is a complete fabrication (thank you, Snopes), then you deserve to be duped and to make yourself look foolish by passing it along to your screaming howler monkey friends.

Can you tell I have zero patience for political correctness?

[cspan37421]

We have to navigate the world as it is, not as we wish that it was.

[DukeFanSince1990]

Right there you've identified one of the central problems with our society. Instead of stopping to say "hey, I wonder why a bunch of basketball players are holding guns," most people go into screaming howler monkey mode.

That's on the screaming howler monkeys.

It's akin to someone sharing one of those ridiculously false chain messages on Facebook. If you're too lazy to actually take the time to look and see if the latest chain message is a complete fabrication (thank you, Snopes), then you deserve to be duped and to make yourself look foolish by passing it along to your screaming howler monkey friends.

Can you tell I have zero patience for political correctness?

But being PC is easier than being discerning.

[Jarhead]

What's goes on the internet is there forever, but can be forgotten over time -- except when the issue is kept alive by folks posting in a forum such as this. Like politics, this thread has opposing sides that will keep posting unless the thread is closed. Move on folks. Nothing to see here.

[oldnavy]

We have to navigate the world as it is, not as we wish that it was.

Not me. That sounds a lot like submission. Just think that if the forces of civil change over the centuries took that attitude....

Some times you need to point out errors and stupidity...

[DukeFanSince1990]

We have to navigate the world as it is, not as we wish that it was.

I humbly disagree. That same logic can be used for an excuse to follow the crowd and not think for oneself.

[BD80]

well, i can see that i'm in the minority on this. I guess it's just been a long time since we've "shared" on the old PPB. :(


This is what we want that 8 yr old kid that's dreaming of going to duke to see? ...

The 8 yr old playing with GI Joes (my generation) or 1st person shooter games?

[Waynne]

"Duke players with guns" is a top mover on MSN.com this morning. Not the image our program wishes to project IMO.

[jay]

"Duke players with guns" is a top mover on MSN.com this morning. Not the image our program wishes to project IMO.

Hmm...interesting. Seems like the below quote echoes what some of us have been saying in this thread.


"They were given the opportunity by the Army personnel to take some pictures," said Jon Jackson, an associate director of athletics. "If you take the image by itself and it's taken out of context, it could be seen as are we somehow glamorizing gun violence or something like that. Clearly, (that's) not the case.”

Read more: http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/10/15/Photo-of-Duke-basketball-players-with-guns-is-a-miss-with-fans/5971381847740/#ixzz2hnxFi23H

[FerryFor50]

I think it has a lot to do with timing. Given the political climate over gun control/gun violence the past few years and several tragic mass shootings involving assault rifles, it doesn't make any sense to strike a pose with one unless you're an actual member of the military. Otherwise, you're bound to trigger debate because the wounds are still fresh....

[FerryFor50]

Personally, I hope the team poster this year is the entire team holding ARs but that's just me.

The kids were having fun at West Point with fake weapons. The brave men and women that serve this country use real guns like the ones in the picture to protect us from harm.

To spin this as some sort of endorsement of violence is nonsense.

Yea, nothing's ever been spun into nonsense by the media before. Particularly not involving college athletics. Or Duke athletics...

[CLW]

I respectfully suggest you're missing the point. The context of the picture is not at all apparent within the picture. This thing can just circulate and people will add their own caption or explanatory story to go with it. The WRAL story makes this point exactly ... and that such "spreading viral" did happen.

Well I did a quick Google "Duke Guns" search and a "few" articles from sports websites popped up. Nearly ALL of them put the photo in context (i.e. taken during a visit to West Point etc...).

Other than a few fans comments saying "Hey if that was our school people would be LIVID." No one seemed to care and everyone was aware of the context of the photo.

I've seen little evidence anyone is using it as "propaganda" to suggest Duke's players are "thugs" or "support violence" or are "against gun control" or "pro 2nd Amendment" etc....

If the team walked on egg shells they wouldn't have even visited West Point or Fort Bragg or go to China b/c it might "offend" someone. In today's PC on steroids age almost anything you do has a potential to "offend" someone.

[elvis14]

"If you take the image by itself and it's taken out of context, it could be seen as are we somehow glamorizing gun violence or something like that.

That quote right there legitimizes the objections to the photo. I think it was probably a great team building experience and a lot of fun. I don't care about anyone's politics. The picture will be taken out of context and it's just one of those things that's just too easy to use. Now, having said that, it's such a minor annoyance that I'm not worked up about it. I just thought I'd point out that jay's quote explains exactly why it's unfortunate this picture went public.

[Clay Feet POF]

Well, the pic of UNC would've been shot/taken on 15-501 holding a real gun in one hand and a bag of weed in the other. Kentucky players would be using a Laettner photo as their target.

Thanks for your point of view. Anyone notice the foreground of this Photo!

[-bdbd]

As soon as they saw the camera man coming they all should have thrown their guns out the window.

Kinda hard since they are attached to pnumatic tubes (which you can see some of in the pic). That's to simulate the kickback from the "firing." ;)

I just wish there was something in the pic clearly identifying it as West Point or a U.S. Military event. No doubt it'll be used by haters for nefarious purposes.

[Kfanarmy]

To me it makes our guys look really silly. Your moniker indicates expertise.

[Scorp4me]

http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1931lmelssqvfjpg/original.jpg


how did this picture happen?

I'm curious for someone who feels this is "totally uncool" (OP or someone else) to explain their exact reasons. I'd like to know if there are any reasons beyond "opposing fans who will find fault with anything" that are legitimate. I can think of good reasons that aren't legimate and crappy reasons that are (including the aformentioned opposing fans), so just wanna know if there are others.

That being said political correctness has absolutely ruined this country and I'd much rather see criminals off the streets than guns, but I know that sort of common sense runs counter to many.

[Kfanarmy]

I'm kind of with moonpie on this. I'm not offended by it at all, but as Adam Gold stated there could have been a little more forethought before taking the pictures. Maybe have a few actual cadets in the picture with them to give it more context. I love that the Duke players had this exercise at West Point, I think it's terrific and gives them a glimpse of how and what these cadets train for. But taking pictures like this can glamorize something else. This is a basketball team and the goal of elevate is to connect and realize they are representing something greater than themselves. Though there are obvious similarities as far as being a team, this is not a team of men putting themselves into position to defend our country. And with the obsession with guns this country already has, the pictures are too easily and wrongly interpreted to imply something else. I just would have expected better judgement here. What do you mean the obsession with guns?

[El_Diablo]

We should have dressed up the photo by adding some rims and some deflated basketballs:

3624

[g-money]

I'm curious for someone who feels this is "totally uncool" (OP or someone else) to explain their exact reasons. I'd like to know if there are any reasons beyond "opposing fans who will find fault with anything" that are legitimate. I can think of good reasons that aren't legimate and crappy reasons that are (including the aformentioned opposing fans), so just wanna know if there are others.

That being said political correctness has absolutely ruined this country and I'd much rather see criminals off the streets than guns, but I know that sort of common sense runs counter to many.

OK, I'll take the bait - but rather than spend 30 minutes writing an impassioned response, I'll simply go with this:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?page=keown/101116

[allenmurray]

They are not posing as "ganstas" but "soldiers". And soldiers should be admired.

I agree, soldiers should be admired. But these are Duke students - they are not soldiers. And as you said, they are "posing". None of them spend a single minute of their day protecting our country - they spend their days playing basketball at an elite university and being well taken care of during that time. If they want to be admired for their toughness by posing with military weapons they can join the military. I find it disrespectful to the young men (no older than these Duke students) who risk their lives on a daily basis in conditions that none of these basketball players can even begin to understand.

[DukeFanSince1990]

I agree, soldiers should be admired. But these are Duke students - they are not soldiers. And as you said, they are "posing". None of them spend a single minute of their day protecting our country - they spend their days playing basketball at an elite university and being well taken care of during that time. If they want to be admired for their toughness by posing with military weapons they can join the military. I find it disrespectful to the young men (no older than these Duke students) who risk their lives on a daily basis in conditions that none of these basketball players can even begin to understand.

"If they want to be admired for their toughness by posing with military weapons they can join the military".....Did you know the guns were fake?

[freshmanjs]

I'm curious for someone who feels this is "totally uncool" (OP or someone else) to explain their exact reasons. I'd like to know if there are any reasons beyond "opposing fans who will find fault with anything" that are legitimate. I can think of good reasons that aren't legimate and crappy reasons that are (including the aformentioned opposing fans), so just wanna know if there are others.

That being said political correctness has absolutely ruined this country and I'd much rather see criminals off the streets than guns, but I know that sort of common sense runs counter to many.

it's clear that the actual activities the players were engaged in were fine and that the photo in no way depicts anyone doing anything wrong.

so, the issue boils down to whether it was unwise of Duke to let this photo out due to the perceptions it could create. I see some here basically saying that you should never do or not do anything for the sake of managing perception. Somehow, they also tie this to bashing of "political correctness," which I read as bashing of liberals who are "ruining our country."

in any case, I think it is always a question of cost/benefit. what was the benefit of having this photo out in the media? to me, there was very little. and there was some cost (probably also small but I'd argue larger than the benefit). So, my take is that this was foolish, but not ultimately a huge deal.

They could have done a better job getting photos of this trip out that would have been overwhelmingly good for the program (I've seen a few but not widely publicized).

[CameronBornAndBred]

I don't think the picture was incredibly smart on the behalf of the team. When I say team, I mean coaches too, in one photo, Capel can be seen sporting a rifle. (http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/1931mg40kdiq0jpg/ku-xlarge.jpg)

Do I think that because some kid sees the team with a bunch of rifles they will run out and shoot somebody? No. Is there an overly politically correct attitude prevalent in these circumstances? Yes.
Was it stupid to do? Also yes.
Just out of curiosity, I Googled Duke's weapons policy.


Weapons/Firearms/Explosives

It is against university policy to possess and/or use a gun, rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, or any powerful explosive on university property. Additionally, other than when permitted by the vice president for Student Affairs (or his/her designee) for legitimate educational purposes, students are not permitted to possess and/or use on campus any weapon, including but not limited to mace, BB gun, stun gun, paintball gun, potato gun, realistic-looking toy gun, air rifle, air pistol, sword, bowie knife, dagger, slingshot, switchblade knife, blackjack, and metallic knuckles.



http://duke.edu/policies/students/universitywide/weapons.php So according to that policy, the picture never would have been able to happen if it were on campus.

[OldPhiKap]

Kids being kids.

But yeah, I could do without the picture.

And double yeah, if this was Kentucky or UNC I would be making a lot of fun over it.

[Ichabod Drain]

Do I think that because some kid sees the team with a bunch of rifles they will run out and shoot somebody? No. Is there an overly politically correct attitude prevalent in these circumstances? Yes.
Was it stupid to do? Also yes.


I think stupid is a very harsh word. There is a whole album (http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2013-14/Duke-Elevate/Duke-Elevate-NY-Day-1) from Duke Blue Planet on their trip to West Point. You'll see pictures here of the West Point staff instructing the players and of the clearly fake guns. The photo in question is clearly being used out of context.

Should Lebron and Wade be reprimanded as well?

36253626

[flyingdutchdevil]

I think stupid is a very harsh word. There is a whole album (http://www.blueplanetshots.com/2013-14/Duke-Elevate/Duke-Elevate-NY-Day-1) from Duke Blue Planet on their trip to West Point. You'll see pictures here of the West Point staff instructing the players and of the clearly fake guns. The photo in question is clearly being used out of context.

Should Lebron and Wade be reprimanded as well?

36253626

Really? I don't even think these two examples are on the same planet.

The picture that our boys posed in screamed, "Look at us. We're bad@sses with rifles that look insanely realistic."

OldPhiKap said it best: if this were UNC or Kentucky, we'd all be having a field day right now.

[Ichabod Drain]

Really? I don't even think these two examples are on the same planet.

The picture that our boys posed in screamed, "Look at us. We're bad@sses with rifles that look insanely realistic."

OldPhiKap said it best: if this were UNC or Kentucky, we'd all be having a field day right now.

What about this picture says "We're bad@sses?" They are literally standing there with the simulation firearms they were handed by West Point personnel smiling as someone takes a picture.

[BlueDevilBrowns]

Kids being kids.

But yeah, I could do without the picture.

And double yeah, if this was Kentucky or UNC I would be making a lot of fun over it.


Really? I don't even think these two examples are on the same planet.

The picture that our boys posed in screamed, "Look at us. We're bad@sses with rifles that look insanely realistic."

OldPhiKap said it best: if this were UNC or Kentucky, we'd all be having a field day right now.

Just to clarify, OPK didn't say "all of us" would be having a field day, just that "he" personally would.

I, for one, wouldn't have a field day with it because, frankly, it's rather innocent when compared to the countless other images shown 24/7 on TV, internet, and Cable to children of all ages.

To me, as others have already mentioned, this is a political/values issue, not a "right or wrong" answer. I imagine those that dislike guns and what they feel they represent also don't like the photo. Others who don't have a problem with firearms probably aren't as bothered by it.

It's simply a matter of opinion and different people's perspectives. I do believe, though, that the danger is that it can so easily be taken out of context and manipulated to fit the views of others, not necessarily the views of the subjects.

It was a photo that should have remained private, IMO, and enjoyed by those that understood the circumstances surrounding the shot(no pun intended).

[flyingdutchdevil]

Just to clarify, OPK didn't say "all of us" would be having a field day, just that "he" personally would.

I, for one, wouldn't have a field day with it because, frankly, it's rather innocent when compared to the countless other images shown 24/7 on TV, internet, and Cable to children of all ages.

To me, as others have already mentioned, this is a political/values issue, not a "right or wrong" answer. I imagine those that dislike guns and what they feel they represent also don't like the photo. Others who don't have a problem with firearms probably aren't as bothered by it.

It's simply a matter of opinion and different people's perspectives. I do believe, though, that the danger is that it can so easily be taken out of context and manipulated to fit the views of others, not necessarily the views of the subjects.

It was a photo that should have remained private, IMO, and enjoyed by those that understood the circumstances surrounding the shot(no pun intended).

Post the day. Plenty of pitchforks for you, my friend.

[dbcooper]

And didn't throw them out the window...hehe!!

[Clay Feet POF]

Viewing this Photo, remind me of the phase "A picture is worth a thousand words"

[Blue in the Face]

I find it disrespectful to the young men (no older than these Duke students) who risk their lives on a daily basis in conditions that none of these basketball players can even begin to understand.
Do you think the military instructors who spent time with them and gave them the simulation training with the (fake) guns were being disrespectful to those young men and women risking their lives in the military?

[oldnavy]

Do you think the military instructors who spent time with them and gave them the simulation training with the (fake) guns were being disrespectful to those young men and women risking their lives in the military?

Actually, the military loves it when folks come visit and learn about what they do. It is much more "respectful" than "disrespectful".

I am glad the kids got to go do what they did and that they have photos to remember the experience.

Speaking of photo's that could be "offensive" was there much noise made over this poster which is CLEARLY a reference to organized crime.

http://i36.tinypic.com/i6ywx0.jpg

[ncexnyc]

Do you think the military instructors who spent time with them and gave them the simulation training with the (fake) guns were being disrespectful to those young men and women risking their lives in the military?

For those of us who served, we are familar with the phrase, "Dog and Pony Show", which is exactly what this was. So while some of the instructors may have had fun rubbing elbows with Coach K, the staff, and the players. I'm sure the majority of those involved would have rather been doing their normal routine.

[Wander]

To me, as others have already mentioned, this is a political/values issue, not a "right or wrong" answer. I imagine those that dislike guns and what they feel they represent also don't like the photo. Others who don't have a problem with firearms probably aren't as bothered by it.


I guess most people see it that way, but I don't. I'm someone who finds it incredibly obvious that the country has a serious gun problem and needs legislation to help fix it. However, I find this whole issue regarding the picture to be complete nonsense. Learning about firearms in a controlled setting by trained professionals is the exact type of thing that almost everyone agrees is fine. Who cares that they took a goofy picture afterwards? This is silly.

[rasputin]

I guess most people see it that way, but I don't. I'm someone who finds it incredibly obvious that the country has a serious gun problem and needs legislation to help fix it. However, I find this whole issue regarding the picture to be complete nonsense. Learning about firearms in a controlled setting by trained professionals is the exact type of thing that almost everyone agrees is fine. Who cares that they took a goofy picture afterwards? This is silly.

I'm with you on the existence of a problem (without getting too PPB on this). I don't think it's nonsense, however, to the extent that people have a problem with a picture glorifying/having fun with assault weapons, and with that picture being connected to Duke.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

As a big defender of individual gun rights, I think the photo is pretty cool. Definitely a little unexpected.

It's origin has all been explained and put into context, so it is what it is, a photo of the team visiting West Point.

Guns are not the problem, it's the people behind them that cause problems. (It's a cliche' for a reason, it's true).

I'm a big believer in personal responsibility too.

These kids are not threatening anyone, or being irresponsible.

I hope the team had a little fun learning something about a soldiers world.

Coach K's judgement on allowing this,(assuming he knew), is maybe questionable for some, but not me.

[tommy]

I would like to respond in a more substantive way that I did earlier in this thread with regards to the images of guns and gun violence that we are bombarded with in this society, the effect that such bombardment has on the members of this society, the association in this photograph between carrying assault weapons and fun and coolness and Duke Basketball, and other important issues, but I am afraid I would be straying into PPB territory.

Frankly, when I saw this thread posted yesterday, I gave it a shelflife of less than 24 hours, given how obvious it was that the discussion was going to move in the direction that it has in fact moved: PPB. At least half the posts in this thread make obvious the political position that the poster is taking on the issue, and are overtly political in nature.

Perhaps it would be helpful for the moderators to provide some guidance here. Are the mods permitting a little more leeway then they previously have with regards to these types of discussions? If not, what are the parameters here? Thanks.

[stals]

As a big defender of individual gun rights, I think the photo is pretty cool. Definitely a little unexpected.

It's origin has all been explained and put into context, so it is what it is, a photo of the team visiting West Point.

Guns are not the problem, it's the people behind them that cause problems. (It's a cliche' for a reason, it's true).

I'm a big believer in personal responsibility too.

These kids are not threatening anyone, or being irresponsible.

I hope the team had a little fun learning something about a soldiers world.

Coach K's judgement on allowing this,(assuming he knew), is maybe questionable for some, but not me.

Ditto, Wheat
folks are being real politically correct on this. Lighten up, guys

[JBDuke]

Okay, folks have had their say. Some folks have chosen to stray pretty darned close to public policy territory. This was a tricky thread to moderate, because of the obvious on-topic content of the photo. But the discussion isn't going anywhere productive at this point.

This thread is closed.